Latest / How To Talk To Humans / Interview with Bob Stobener- Corporate Communications- Part 2

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Interview with Bob Stobener- Corporate Communications- Part 2 · How To Talk To Humans

• 0:02
  Larry Wilson: Hi, this is Larry Wilson and this is How to Talk to Humans.
• 0:07
  Larry Wilson: This is the podcast that shows you how to improve your communication skills.
• 0:13
  Larry Wilson: Are you looking to get a better job?
• 0:15
  Larry Wilson: Are you looking to find a relationship?
• 0:17
  Larry Wilson: Are you trying to do things in your life that have frustrated you and eluded you so far?
• 0:23
  Larry Wilson: I can show you so easily how to change that.
• 0:27
  Larry Wilson: Now, I can only do it with humans.
• 0:30
  Larry Wilson: If you're looking to deal with vampires or zombies extraterrestrials, this is not the show for you.
• 0:35
  Larry Wilson: But if you're really looking to improve your communication skills, I can show you what I've learned from 40 years in the show business working with the biggest celebrities and superstars in the world, and their secrets are unbelievable.
• 0:53
  Larry Wilson: What I'm going to be teaching you during the course of this podcast every week are tools that you can use to communicate toward success.
• 1:06
  Larry Wilson: Thank you for joining me for another episode of How to Talk to Humans.
• 1:12
  Larry Wilson: I'm here with Bob Stogner, who is actually a human, despite all appearances.
• 1:20
  Larry Wilson: Many of you saying, that name is familiar, yes.
• 1:23
  Larry Wilson: But you've never seen his visage before.
• 1:27
  Larry Wilson: Because when Bob and I recorded an episode, an early episode of this podcast, it was just audio only.
• 1:34
  Larry Wilson: It was in the days before video action existed.
• 1:36
  Larry Wilson: That's right.
• 1:38
  Larry Wilson: That's how long ago.
• 1:39
  Larry Wilson: 1942, I think it was.
• 1:40
  Larry Wilson: It's what it seems like.
• 1:42
  Larry Wilson: That I wanted to bring you back, Bob, to talk about a little bit more.
• 1:54
  Larry Wilson: The check you owe me?
• 1:56
  Larry Wilson: Oh, yes.
• 1:56
  Larry Wilson: That check is in the mail.
• 1:58
  Larry Wilson: Oh, good.
• 1:59
  Larry Wilson: Unfortunately, it's not email.
• 2:01
  Larry Wilson: Okay.
• 2:01
  Larry Wilson: It's nail mail, so you may never see it.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 2:04
  Speaker: But for I'm going to bring people up to speed, for those of you who may not remember, you worked for many years at Rayleigh's.
• 2:12
  Speaker: Yes, Northern California grocery store.
• 2:14
  Speaker: That's right.
• 2:14
  Speaker: Supermarket James, very successful.
• 2:16
  Speaker: Wonderful company.
• 2:17
  Speaker: And then you retired.
• 2:19
  Speaker: I did.
• 2:20
  Speaker: But in the episode that we recorded earlier, you talked about a specific uh specific experience you had with an employee who represented a problem.
• 2:32
  Speaker: And I'm encapsulating this, trying to bring it into touch.
• 2:36
  Speaker: But your solution to the problem, because you were really listening to him, was so clever and so creative that it wound up moving him out of your hair, so he he was no longer making your life miserable, but into a new situation where he was happier.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: So well, in that particular instance, this gentleman who was a friend of mine, he was clearly not in the right role, and and he clearly had skills beyond the little box we had put him in.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: So he wasn't happy, and his career was not going to go anywhere.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So it just made sense to say, let me see what we can do.
• 3:23
  Speaker: See, now you say it made sense.
• 3:25
  Speaker: But the key here is that you knew he was in the wrong role because you weren't just trying to impose your predisposed notion.
• 3:39
  Speaker: In other words, you didn't come to it saying, I don't care about your problems.
• 3:45
  Speaker: I need a guy to move those widgets or whatever.
• 3:48
  Speaker: Which a lot of times people think, oh, that's the best way to handle this.
• 3:51
  Speaker: But the way you handle this, infinitely more successful, infinitely more valuable to the company.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it it's just that he was he was so boxed in uh in what he was doing.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: He was doing a it was an IT roller trying to get him to move into.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: But he and he was doing some IT work for our team, but he clearly showed the ability to go far beyond what we could do for him.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: And and just long term, it just wasn't the career, the little box he was in was not going to be successful for him.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: It was a lot of stress on the team.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: So we we we found a different role for him.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Which which worked better because he had, you know, he other managers might have seen the defiance in him, the frustration in him, and saw he's a problem.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I need to just get him out of the company completely because but I saw that he had skills and talent, and he and just if we could just find a better role for him, he might work out um well, which it did.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: And he was there for a number of years before he moved on uh in upstairs in our IT department.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: So yeah.
• 4:59
  Speaker: Well, it worked out well.
• 5:00
  Speaker: Uh Bob is being very modest because you're acting like, oh, it was so simple, but you're but you're you're downplaying your role and your communication because someone less skilled than yourself, like you say, would have just said, we just gotta fire this guy.
• 5:19
  Speaker: We just gotta get him out of here.
• 5:21
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 5:21
  Speaker: Which is not good for him, obviously, but also not good for you.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: As a as the company or as for me personally?
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: As the company, yeah, we would have lost a talented individual, which we needed.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Uh for myself, I felt, you know, I would, you know, when you're a manager, you have uh relationships, not those kind of relationships, but you have this relationship with the people that you're supporting.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: And um you try to do your best for them.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I would have uh different people on my team that you could just have the one-on-one every week with, and it's a 10-minute check check-in, and everything's great, and okay, we'll see you next week.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: And there's others, and this the person I'm speaking of would clearly would have no problem with me saying this because she she would agree.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: But we would have, you know, essentially therapy sessions every week, just going through things and just trying to.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I was just, but it was important of for me as a leader to listen, not to talk necessarily, not to try to solve the problem, but just give a a forum for them to let it out.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Because if you don't, that frustration just sits there in their in their cube all day long and it just you know, it just builds up.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So you have to kind of solve that.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: And and and we had a thing that we developed that I that I was pushing for.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Um I don't know if this is what you're interested in hearing about.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Uh it's called the Upside Down Pyramid.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Which is Tell me what it is out there.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: There are there are business leaders who've proposed this, but it's not a very well-regarded fundamental function or design because it really means you, the leader, you're no longer at the top of the pyramid of your org chart.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: You're at the bottom of the org chart.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: If you could just the inverted pyramid, your correct period goes like that, or pyramid goes like that.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: The inverted pyramid goes like at the top is all the team, all the players, and they're all reporting up to their subordinates.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: It all reverses, it goes down to where you're the leader, you're at the bottom of the pyramid.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: And you're supporting all the people on top.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: And you got to keep the pyramid in balance, and you have to make sure that everybody's productive, satisfied, yet, you know, we're getting the functionality we need from them for the company.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: And so it's it's the opposite of being, I'm on top, I made it to the top, I'm all that, everybody has to pay attention to me and follow me and stuff.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: No, you're really in the role of supporting and communicating your thing to all these people to make sure everybody's balanced and that pyramid doesn't topple over.
• 8:07
  Speaker: Well, this is going to be another hugely popular episode, and I'll tell you why.
• 8:14
  Speaker: Because what Bob is talking about here is simple, it's not complicated, but it's, I think, very profound.
• 8:24
  Speaker: He said something, and he said it in passing, because he's a modest guy.
• 8:29
  Speaker: He's not the kind of guy to come on and say, pay attention to me, blah, blah.
• 8:34
  Speaker: But he said something that I don't want you to overlook here.
• 8:40
  Speaker: He said managers have to have these relationships with the people on their team.
• 8:48
  Speaker: Now, this seems like not a big deal, but what you're talking about, and when you're talking about this inverted pyramid, and when you're talking about weekly, some people, all different kinds of relationships.
• 8:59
  Speaker: But those are predicated on your communication skills.
• 9:07
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 9:08
  Speaker: They live and die.
• 9:10
  Speaker: It's mission critical that you are able to convey whatever it is.
• 9:18
  Speaker: Like you said, you have some members of your team, oh, check-in once?
• 9:22
  Speaker: Fine.
• 9:23
  Speaker: Other people, oh, it's like a therapy session.
• 9:26
  Speaker: Whatever the situation calls for, you have to be able to shift gears, you have to be able to identify, and and I'm I'm guessing now because I don't know.
• 9:36
  Speaker: I would imagine sometimes these were in-person face-to-face.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: This is yeah, all always in person.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I see, okay.
• 9:44
  Speaker: So this is long ago.
• 9:46
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: That many, many years ago.
• 9:49
  Speaker: All right.
• 9:50
  Speaker: When rainbows were in black and white, that's how long ago it was.
• 9:56
  Speaker: But but I only reason I bring it up is because nowadays there might be a mix where some of these interactions might be face-to-face.
• 10:04
  Speaker: That's true.
• 10:04
  Speaker: Some of them might be on Virtual.
• 10:06
  Speaker: Virtual might be Teams Meet, or uh I can't remember all the names.
• 10:12
  Speaker: What is it to Zoom and Google has its own.
• 10:14
  Speaker: What is Google's call?
• 10:15
  Speaker: Etch a sketch.
• 10:16
  Speaker: Anything.
• 10:17
  Speaker: Could be whatever they are.
• 10:18
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 10:18
  Speaker: Could be anything.
• 10:19
  Speaker: Or they might be emails or they might be text.
• 10:22
  Speaker: And all of them require different techniques.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's just a matter of you just need to be invested in these team members.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: As a leader, you need to.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Am I getting paid for this?
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: You need to be could be.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: You you need to I think you need to to have an interest in in the people that are on your team.
• 10:42
  Speaker: Everything you're saying, of course, is golden.
• 10:45
  Speaker: You're of course, you're right.
• 10:47
  Speaker: I mean, this is I guess what I find so interesting, particularly about the work that I'm doing here, and the reason we're doing this podcast, is because none of it is rocket science.
• 11:01
  Speaker: No.
• 11:02
  Speaker: It's none of it is saying, oh, yeah, you can be successful, just lift this 500-pound boulder above your head, and then you go, okay.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I think that's true because I don't think you can teach human relationships in college, and I don't think a degree will give you that.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: And I think it's it can't be learned, it has to be developed.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Some people have it, some people don't.
• 11:27
  Speaker: Well, uh, I couldn't agree with you more.
• 11:30
  Speaker: I I, of course, am of the mind that communication skills can be taught easily.
• 11:37
  Speaker: Oh, that's true.
• 11:38
  Speaker: They can be definitely developed.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: This guy.
• 11:43
  Speaker: Well.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Well, but you have to, you know, you have to be willing to listen and and develop them yourself.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: You know, say, and right?
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: 100 that's some people have that stubbornness that they're just, I don't need this.
• 11:58
  Speaker: But this is why I say he's so modest.
• 11:59
  Speaker: He's acting like, oh, well, of course, yeah, anyone can learn them.
• 12:06
  Speaker: But you can't force people to learn them.
• 12:09
  Speaker: Right.
• 12:09
  Speaker: You can't hammer them into people.
• 12:12
  Speaker: There are some people, like you say, and I I'm positive, without you ever having told me this, I'm positive that you encountered some people in Rayleigh's who are so eager to learn new stuff, were so eager to develop their skills, like everything you could throw at them, they're taking everything in.
• 12:31
  Speaker: Sure.
• 12:31
  Speaker: And then there's other people who may also be extremely valuable, but very resistant to change.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that just goes with human nature.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Right, right?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, the type of people they are, and and and they're both they're both essential people to the organization.
• 12:50
  Speaker: Of course, they're I think it may become clear to those who are fans of this podcast, I don't have a tendency to single people out and go, yeah, these people are the problem.
• 13:01
  Speaker: These people are the real heroes.
• 13:03
  Speaker: It's not like that.
• 13:05
  Speaker: It really involves all of us, and that's why I'm always saying communication is human.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Uh a woman that I worked with, she is a good friend of mine.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: She's uh her name is Nicole Townsend, and I really should talk to her about coming on your podcast if you come and be doing another episode.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: She has a company called Experience Counts, and she used to uh she and I used to work at Rayleigh's, and she was actually my boss for a number of years.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: And we've worked on project after project after project, including pitching the inverted pyramid, which we got a meeting on it, we got a chance to pitch it.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Wasn't necessarily it was it was uh welcomed, it was a good concept.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: We didn't move too much beyond that, but it it it was uh it was a great experience to pitch it.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've worked for a number of years, and she is all about keeping your uh teams, the communication going, keeping the keeping everybody in sync, and how you uh she has a number of processes on how you uh you engage with your with your team and and and develop your team.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I would love I would love to have her.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I'll have to talk to her about it.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Nicole, you should come and do this.
• 14:16
  Speaker: Yes, Nicole, by all means.
• 14:17
  Speaker: Um well, because of what you're saying, it makes perfect sense then that you would be uh on a team with her because you fit that is a perfect fit with you.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:31
  Speaker: And again, it's so simple, it's not complicated, it's not brain surgery, but if you try to bring people together who are not a good fit, guess what?
• 14:46
  Speaker: It will be constant frustration.
• 14:49
  Speaker: And as I opened this particular episode talking with Bob Bow, that employee you had, who was in the wrong place, who was not being utilized right, it's tempting to try to make that quick fix and go, oh yeah, the quick fix, fire that guy.
• 15:07
  Speaker: But that's a huge mistake.
• 15:09
  Speaker: If your communication skills are better, you say you listen is part of what you were saying, so that you really understand.
• 15:18
  Speaker: Uh my impression, if I remember correctly, is that other people he had to interact with complained about this guy.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: He we had a little bit of a reputation, but uh, I mean, I in a lot of those complaints, he was not necessarily wrong.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: He just was not a he wasn't a a good communicator, and he didn't have patience for a lot of things.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: So I I mean, but he was highly skilled.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: He did end up getting quite a bit of respect uh up in uh his new role and did well.
• 15:51
  Speaker: Well, you know, it's funny.
• 15:54
  Speaker: Uh someone once asked the genius film au tour Orson Wells.
• 15:59
  Speaker: Uh huh.
• 15:59
  Speaker: They said uh he was working on some new film, and they said, Oh, does it have a happy ending or a sad ending?
• 16:06
  Speaker: Do you know the story?
• 16:07
  Speaker: I don't.
• 16:08
  Speaker: And he said, Well, it depends on where you end the story.
• 16:13
  Speaker: So I'm thrilled to hear, as a means of wrapping up this story, that this guy who was an enormous problem actually wound up getting a great deal of respect once you found the right place for it.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: He did.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: He did.
• 16:28
  Speaker: Well, that's a very happy ending.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Worked out well for him.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: And and we benefit we all benefited from that realignment.
• 16:37
  Speaker: Of course.
• 16:38
  Speaker: Yes.
• 16:38
  Speaker: And just by means of wrapping this up and bringing everything full circle, you're retired now?
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I am retired now.
• 16:46
  Speaker: And do you find that those same skills you employed, your communication skills, are employed now or have they atrophied?
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I have done some project work for for several companies, and and yes, I still employ the skills, communication skills were needed, and and and uh but yeah, I mean I I'm not in the day-to-day in the in the office as I once was.
• 17:13
  Speaker: Oh, that's all right.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: But yes, I mean I think overall what you're talking about is relationship skills and communication, which is goes far beyond the office and far beyond the cubes, and far beyond the zoom calls.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just relationships of your family, your friends.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: You try to get inside where they're coming from and and uh and understand what's happening.
• 17:39
  Speaker: Of course, I can take no issue with anything Bob Stogner says.
• 17:44
  Speaker: He's a hundred percent correct.
• 17:46
  Speaker: And of course, what he's referring to there, not necessarily by name, but is empathy is trying to get into their head of what their experience is.
• 17:59
  Speaker: And of course, we will address this on a future episode of How to Talk to Humans.
• 18:05
  Speaker: Bob, thank you so much for being here again.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for having me, Larry.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: This is great.
• 18:11
  Speaker: My pleasure.
• 18:12
  Speaker: I predict.
• 18:12
  Speaker: Oh, oh, here it comes.
• 18:14
  Speaker: I predict this will become another enormously popular episode.
• 18:18
  Speaker: And who knows, I may eventually have to make Bob a regular co-host of this.
• 18:22
  Speaker: I don't know.
• 18:23
  Speaker: We'll see.
• 18:24
  Speaker: We'll see how many we have to do.
• 18:25
  Speaker: We'll see if the check is good.
• 18:27
  Speaker: That's right.
• 18:28
  Speaker: He's not getting that dollar.
• 18:29
  Speaker: I'm keeping that dollar.
• 18:31
  Speaker: Join us next week on how to talk to humans.
• 18:34
  Speaker: We'll see if Stogner's back or if it's just me by myself.
• 18:38
  Speaker: This has been Larry Wilson.
• 18:42
  Speaker: I want to thank you for spending this time with me, and I hope you found this information useful.
• 18:48
  Speaker: If you're looking for more, you can find it at thewilsonmethod.com.
• 18:53
  Speaker: There's a ton of stuff there.
• 18:55
  Speaker: With that, if you want, you can even speak to me because I'm human.
• 19:01
  Speaker: Send me an email at info at wilsonmethod.com because I read every single one.
• 19:10
  Speaker: I hope that you'll join us next week in this continuing journey.
• 19:16
  Speaker: And you'll be with me for the next episode of How to Talk to Human.