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Overcoming Dyslexia : Finding Success Through Challenges · Let Them Fly - Heather Harries Ed Hub

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, this is Heather Harris, and with another edition of our podcast, Let Them Fly.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: The podcast has always been about a child's journey through the family until they finally find their wings and leave home.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And today I'm really excited that I've got a special guest here.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: My elder son, who many of you heard me talk about on both the podcasts and my talks, is joining me today.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to discuss different approaches to coming through school.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: So James is perhaps my most challenging child.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the first you don't get the manual and you're never quite sure what's going to come.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: But James has struggled through his education with dyslexia and a few learning needs.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's a fantastic sportsman and it was the sports that carried him through.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: So today we're going to talk about getting through school with challenging children, the journey through school when you've got educational challenges and coming out the other side as an okay human being.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, James, thank you so much for joining today, and welcome to today.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you'd just like to um talk a bit about how did you find school?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: What what were your feelings about school?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh to be honest, school for me, it was uh it was a bit of a nightmare to start off with.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh yeah, didn't enjoy school at all.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um well actually I did enjoy school.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed the social aspects, I enjoyed the sporting side of it, I enjoyed being part of a team, being part of a essentially a family.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, the the academic side of things would not top my list of things to do.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as you know, there were many letters sent home.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: My spelling tests were always wrong.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh and then yeah, I I guess the sports side of things and uh the PE aspects of my my physical education and my teachers probably on my physical education side, they really supported me through and pushed me through uh education.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'll take you back there because as a parent of a first as a first-time parent, you were my only child at that time, those spelling tests were the rise and fall of education.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it always worried me because I could never understand initially why you just couldn't learn to spell, why you just couldn't write.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I used to get so frustrated, and you used to get so frustrated, and we used to get those, we used to sit for hours nailing those words, and then you'd come home with three out of ten, and the school would kind of go, you've not learned these, you've not, and it was everything rose and fell on a spelling test, it's felt like.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, when I I remember sitting in year four, we we had to do a spelling test, and I just couldn't spell because, and it took me forever and ever and ever and ever, and I just couldn't get it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it I don't know what I couldn't get understand about the word, but I just couldn't spell it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I can remember coming home, my teacher sort of made me feel like an idiot in class, and then me and you have an argument after school, but we kind of looked back on it now, and recently we we've been talking more about sort of how my education differed from you know what what kids are doing today and the support they're getting today, and it it's quite substantial.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and when you're in school, you if you can't spell it, you're not the norm, you are considered, you know, sort of the disruptive child or or the the troublemaker.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think really it wasn't so much that you were disruptive, I think you became disruptive because you were one of those children that had to excel at something.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And your only way to be recognised in a school that had a lot of very intelligent children, they recognized academic greatness, but they didn't recognise other things.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And your way of becoming that individual was to become the class clown and was to become disruptive, not in a bad way, but it was your only way to make your mark.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it it was sort of my social banning to become part of the group or to become part of a a clique in the school was wasn't to sort of be the class clown, was to make everyone laugh, wasn't to do something silly.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I get as uh as we've discussed on many occasions, there's been those odd few teachers that really stood out to me and and sort of changed my way of learning, which has allowed me to, you know, finally pass my GCCs and um and I think we'll come back there.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we obviously you were you started your school journey in the UK and the dyslexia wasn't picked up there.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I always knew there was something wrong, but I never really appreciated quite how bad the dyslexia was.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Then we moved to a school in the UAE, which was very, it was a very traditional school.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: There was very little flexibility, and you you there was no kind of there was no allowance for anyone that didn't meet the standards.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then we decided, we we were brought in by the school when you were in year 10, and we were basically told you were not going to pass a single thing.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we took that very hard decision and said, right, we need to just start again.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And in the middle of GCSEs and you know, being an educationalist, it really worried me.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: We picked you up out of one school and we put you in another school, and you flew because that school was designed around allowing people to be individuals.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Landlever College changed me, you know.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was it wasn't just the fact that it allowed me to learn because they gave me the support structure and the systems to learn.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: They they allowed me to grow as a person, they really encouraged me to pick up and push my sporting talents.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like um, I think I was telling you a story the other day, or I was telling Dallas a story the other day that there was one time where my geography teacher took me down to Tembe in West Wales, and we basically sat at the bottom, the mouth of the river and watched the river sort of pour out all the sediment and all the bits and bobs, and and he sort of explained the systems, and then we walked 4.5 miles up the river, watching all the meanders, watching all the Oxbow Lakes, and those those sort of experiences are the things that made me learn because we were actually going out and seeing how things worked in action rather than just watching a YouTube video or just having a simple diagram drawn on it on a whiteboard.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was something really, really engaging.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And another story was our history teacher, the school in the UAE, went to school in the UK, and my history teacher in the UK, he was making his reenact scenes from movies, reenact scenes from actual battles and getting us to be a part of it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's something for me as a kinesthetic learner, that was something that really, really changed me and really, really booted my education.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually remember when we go back there because the history teacher that you had in school in um in it was in charge at the time, we went to a particular parents' evening, and the history teacher took me to one side and he said, Mrs.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Harris, we both know there's no such thing as dyslexia.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: We just have disruptive children who are lazy.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point I realized this school was never going to be able to get you to where you needed to be.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh the moment I left the UAE and and went out to the the UK, you know, it w it was life-changing, you know, you had to have that sense of maturity.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I always say to parents when I talk to them, I always say, you know, you will eventually find a school that just fits.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if you remember, when you were in Charger, you were kind of the biggest child by about two feet, and the heaviest child by I don't know how many hundred kilos it felt like.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you left rugby, and you stood out a mile in that school, and then I dropped you into the school in West Wales, there was a rugby school, and you were you were like an identifiter, it was almost hard to pick you out of the crowd.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a real a real belief that there's a try about there for everyone.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that school fit me perfectly, you know.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: There was everyone was perfect in their art in terms of rugby, they were holding their skills.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: If we weren't uh if we weren't in class, we were out on the rugby field, if we weren't doing anything, we were in the gym.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was such an amazing experience.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would 100% recommend going to a woman's pool that suits your needs or suits your sort of goals in terms of where you want to go in life, and it gave me so many opportunities.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I got to play Division I Welsh rugby.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I then obviously got into quite a few clicks there, it was quite nice.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: I got into rowing, got into kayaking, uh loads of different things that I never would have.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think very important at this point.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: How did you feel about your academic ability in in the school in Wales compared to the school here?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Why was the inclusion so different?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it was just they they focused on it more.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not everyone is dyslexic, not everyone is is dyspraxic or a living difficulty, but this school, they really, really the people who did have them, they really supported them.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um one of my friends who sat in my PE class, he had a reader and a scribe to come to all his lessons with him and sitting through the exams and made sure that he could pass them.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it wasn't just the fact that she didn't test for him or anything like that, it was more the fact that she just supported him and just really, really emphasized that supporting a child, if they struggle in this aspect, they need support in another aspect to make them thrive.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I remember we pivoted learning on everything you did when you were here, and obviously, thank goodness that you took that challenge off me once you you went there.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know that here you had you were given a very token 15 or 20 minutes extra for your exams.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And when you arrived there, you were very much kind of like, right, you need an extra 40 minutes for exams, you need a scribe, you need a reader, you can do things on computer, and all these extra additional benefits were given to you to enable you to access education and to come out with some very, very good results.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, like, I I finished in the top, I think it was the top 15% of the UK in terms of PE.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I got an A star, um, which was the grain back then.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I I finished really, really well.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm obviously average in English because you passed it.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think you know, the interesting thing was that from one school to another, you went from being told you would not pass anything to having very reasonable.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, listen, you're you're never going to be top up there at academic in English because that wasn't your passion.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: But on things you were good at, your geography, your chemistry, your your sports, you came out really well.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um I I think we we talked about this story a while ago.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was my chemistry teacher when I moved to school, I I was on in you finishing in Charleston.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I then moved to Landovery, and my ex-chemistry teacher was a was an ex-Inglish rugby player.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he was phenomenal because he he really broke the subject down to to grassroots and then built up a knowledge around it.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And because we only had I think we had maybe five people, six people in our class, it was really small, condensed class.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: He was able to do that one-on-one teaching, which really gave me the go, oh wow, chemistry is really interesting.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: You can do so much with it, and you can learn so much about a world through chemistry.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that gave me the passion to then study it further in my A-Ls, which I finished with a pretty pretty decent result.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think I think you know, from an early age we knew that academics wasn't going to be your route.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I but for me that was never a problem because there's so many different routes of education available out there.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think in terms of sort of I I for other parents who have children that are struggling, you know, what I would say is it's all it is down to the teacher, and you've just said that very much, that at the end of the day, if your teacher believes in you and your teacher is passionate about the subject they teach, you're always going to do well because you absorb that passion.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the things that I particularly um, you know, I always say to parents and to students, over your lifetime, you'll probably have about 50 teachers.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: But when you get to my age, you know, and I'm looking back and it's a very long time ago, but I can still remember three, and they were amazing teachers.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the sadness, is that there's very few amazing teachers.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I agree.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's I I still look back at my ES6P teacher in charge, his name was Lee Garrett, and he is probably one of the most amazing people on the face of this planet.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: He was pointing around to me and said, Sport is, you know, education isn't everything, sport could be an option.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he was the one who sort of explained that there are other things out there, you know, you don't have to be a doctor, you don't have to be a lawyer, you can go do other professions that pay just as well or as just as much fun.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he really, really pushed me to go and follow my professional rugby career.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's important as well, is that it it isn't always about a career that makes money.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's about a career that's got satisfaction.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you've come out of the side, you've tried a few little careers.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I when you left school and you wanted you didn't want to work in an office, you wanted to work outside, and and I was quite cruel because I remember I got a job with you with a very good friend who ran um a big chicken farm.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I went and I said, Right, I said, I need you to find the dirtiest, most horrible job you've got on the farm, because I want to convince my son that he doesn't want to work on a farm.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, you tell you tell me your side.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you you got me that job.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bit of a culture shock, you know, coming from why where everything's a bit glam and then going to a window school where everyone's a bit prim and proper, um, to then be in a farmhand.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we I mean we had to catch 20, 22,000 chickens by hand each day.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was a hard word, it was hard craft.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I tell you what, I love every second of it.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know I kept phoning up and saying, find a job that's more horrible because I need to convince him not to stay here.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think but I think that's it.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think so many parents, their children say, I'm not going to work in an office, I want to work outside.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for the first few years of leaving education, it's really good ground, it's a really good grounding because it when it gets it out the system, because a few days of doing um outside work in minus three degrees and pouring rain, and they soon get over that need to be outside all the time.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you could work to get a promotion into a tractor driver.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: You did, but if I remember you did, you had the heater on and used to watch everyone else.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I think it's very important that you know children are allowed to to spread their wings and let them fly.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is what it's all about.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And they do have to work outside, and then they have to realise that being outside can be quite lonely, it can be cold, and it is hard work.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then you don't mind going to an office because actually that's the promotion.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually realized that being on my feet all day wasn't really what I wanted to do.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it it's sometimes about finding that.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just lucky that I had a connection to give you that really horrible job to get it out of your system.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then you came back here and you you you've done a few different trades.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you didn't go to university, and that was very much a choice you made.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I mean as as we thought on many occasions, you know, education isn't for me.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yes, uni is for some people.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Mikey's at uni, my little brother wants to go to uni, she wants to study media.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my older brother went to uni but never used the course that he went to uni for.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Many people don't.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, for me, it just wasn't the right decision.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to get out, I wanted to work, I wanted to do different jobs, different tasks, and and understand how the world really worked.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And as I as you know, you know very well, I've I've bounced between quite a few different careers and quite a few different options.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've landed myself in recruitment, and I absolutely love it.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the most fascinating industries to be in because you you don't just stop with just doing one vertical or one speciality, you study everything.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I mean, one of the things that we're trying to do at the moment is get into the financial services like banks and and things like investment funds and stuff like that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the amount of research we're doing behind the scenes to understand what they do, how they work, how each position within a company does their role effectively.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's so fascinating to see how different company company dynamics work.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, I mean, I always say to parents, you know, when they come to me and they've got children with dyslexia or dyscula or whatever, I always say, don't worry, once they leave school, they will be fine.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's getting through school that's the challenge.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the things about having dyslexia, it makes you a very emotionally intelligent person.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And recruitment has really been your thing because you love getting behind the story of the people you deal with.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, what one of my favorite stories from what we've been doing is uh my first ever kind we I signed up was a guy down in Abu Dhabi who runs a zoo.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: He is phenomenal, one of the most interesting characters I've ever spoken to in my life.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And our first meeting, we went down there and we just sat and chatted.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think we spoke for an hour and a half just about his history and what he's done and what he's passionate about.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I really got behind the image that he was trying to improve and make it so much better with the company he works with.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's important because I've sat through a few business meetings for you, and I have to say I'm quite proud of the way you've turned out and the way you handle your meetings.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: But you're very good at understanding what people need.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the again, the thing with dyslexics is they think very fast and they think three-dimensionally.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you're coming up with a lot of solutions that are actually saving companies money and always getting that right fit because the emotional intelligence is so important.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the thing that I'm most proud about with your business is that it's not been a financial driven business.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a I really want to work with these people and I really want to help them.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I you you've definitely instilled the right characteristics in me for that.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can Can you write that down, please?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll never admit it again.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it's um I I still remember the time when I was probably five, six years old, and there was a guy who flipped his car into a ditch on our way to on our way to Nelson Haven.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you stopped, you you cleaned all the glass off him, you got him some water, you sort of looked after him, put a blanket over his hat, over him, you held his hand, and you really calmed him down and reassured him that everything was going to be okay.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And when you waited, and we sat there, and we, you know, you you waited until the ambulance came, you then made sure that he had a phone signal to go and call his wife to say he was still okay, and and the insurance company.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we must have been there for about three, four hours in in the blowing gales and the rain.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you were just sat there, and every single time I looked at you, you had a massive smile on your face.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a really, really strong thing that that parents need to install their children is yes, it's important, yes, it's important to have a future, but you're never going to do that unless you start helping and caring about everyone else.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think I mean I have to say, one of the things I do love about this family is that you've all picked that up, whether it's rescuing animals of which we have far too many, or whether it's looking after people, and I really see that in all of you.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe not Kitty, but the rest of you have been really good at it, and I'm very, very proud that you see people before you see money, and I think that's really lovely.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I mean, similar case to the story that I told you the other day about my friend who who recently lost her job.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we we've sent her CV out to over 40 different entities at the moment and trying to push her into places, and it's not for me, it's not about making the money on that, it's about her finding a financials financially stable job.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because as everyone knows, it's pretty hard to live in the Middle East without money.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's quite expensive over here, so yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, tell me about it.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I've funded the entire world sometimes.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I mean, I think going back to education and coming out the other side, which is really what this is about, it's you know, you you struggled, but as parents, we said, right, there's a solution here.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say to parents, the most important thing is to believe in your child.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always I might get cross with you, I might lose my rag when you're not making the right choices, but I've always believed so strongly in your ability to do really well.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, look, uh take it from me.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: School was not the place for me.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's it school is amazing, it it teaches you the basics, it teaches you things, but it doesn't teach you about the real world, and it doesn't teach you about how to do your taxes, how to get a job in a in a different industry, or the the amount of different styles of companies and work you can do.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the opportunities are endless, and because the world is growing so much, there are endless opportunities at the moment.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um, to be honest, it if any children or any parents are listening to this, I I promise you it does get better and everyone finds their own way after school.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I always say that um it doesn't matter what your challenge is, you're good at something.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's finding that good, that thing that's good.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have a I as a parent, I'm always very realistic and I know that my children aren't perfect.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I when when you know a school phones up and says something's happened, I'll say, what have they done?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I always know that you will have been the instigator of something, but I'm always quite relieved that it's never anything bad, it's usually just a bit of mischievousness.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to a child who is maybe following the same trajectory that you started, starting to be a bit of a clown in class because they're not coping academically, what advice would you give them now?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's made friends, you don't need to be the clown to make friends.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think the more that you experience and grow yourself, the more people are drawn to you.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's the better way to do it.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is you you don't have to go down this, oh yeah, I want to make everyone laugh so they like me.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: You you go down this thing of, oh well, this doesn't seem right.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to have a stronger will to go.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't the right option.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let's not do it.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And would you tell them to ask for help?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because that was one thing you never did.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: You refused help.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I looking back on it now, I would 100% ask people to ask, ask someone for help.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at the end of the day, I think if I asked you for help and we sat down more, I probably could have ended my GCS using a bit of better results or spelling testing a bit better.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it's all about just, you know, growing as an individual.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, again, remember your parents are always there to have your side.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're always there to have your back.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's very good advice.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, on our podcast, Let Them Fly, it's always about how do you have the most successful outcome?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say to parents, don't panic, your children will end up good people.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you have your business.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to give you a little plug.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the Harris Group.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very ethical recruitment company that is very much about matching the right resources at the right time and at the right price.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you work very much in as a team member for any company.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So please do do call out to James.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: James is now 26, he's come out the other side, and as a mum, I'm proud to say he's actually turned out to be okay.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us today, James.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is Heather Harris on Let Them Fly.