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S2E34 - Winning the Bedtime Battle: How to End the Nightly Fight · Play Therapy Parenting: Real Parenting Questions Answered by a Child Therapist

0:02
You're listening to the
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Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
0:09
Hi,
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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
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The Kid Counselor.
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This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give you insight,
0:15
awareness,
0:15
and enlightenment about your parenting
0:18
and your relationship with your kids.
0:20
In today's episode,
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I am answering a question from Lauren.
0:23
And Lauren's question is about her almost 3 year old
0:27
with severe parental preference and separation anxiety from her father.
0:33
So,
0:34
the scenario,
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I'm gonna read parts of her email,
0:36
but the scenario is that
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the child is so
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anxiously attached to dad,
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that
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it's a battle all the time because if dad is not present,
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the child cannot regulate.
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And this is actually something that we hear about and deal with a lot.
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I work with quite a few families at my center that are in the same situation.
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So Lauren,
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thank you so much for the email.
1:01
Thank you for sharing the story so that we can talk through this together.
1:04
So let me read parts of her email and then we'll dive in.
1:08
My almost 3 year old has been dealing with separation anxiety from my husband.
1:12
We're both in the house the same amount.
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No one travels or is away from her more than the other.
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We also have an 8 month old at home.
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I would assume that the attachment grew stronger because of me being with the baby.
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Lauren,
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I absolutely agree with that.
1:25
We'll process that a little bit.
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Whenever anything uncomfortable happens to her,
1:28
she immediately screams and cries for daddy.
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Additionally,
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our biggest problem right now is bedtime.
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It's very rare that I can get her to bed without my husband having to go into the room
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to curb the crying and screaming.
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To be honest,
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he's at the end of his rope hearing her scream his name every night over and over.
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She has deep feelings and will not give in or calm down on her own.
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I've tried being present with her while she cries,
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giving her space,
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but staying in her room and letting her know that I'm here to lay with her or snuggle
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or whatever it is that she wants Daddy to do.
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But when we reach an hour and a half of continuous screaming for him,
2:02
it feels cruel,
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and he goes in to hold her until she calms down and
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gets tired enough to fall asleep with him sitting on her bed.
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People keep telling me to just let her cry,
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but I don't think they know what it's like to have a toddler with deep feelings
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who doesn't give up.
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How can we break this cycle?
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We use validating words,
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we try to hold our boundaries,
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try choices,
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try to story play her in her bed,
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a new stuffed animal,
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a new nightgown,
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etc.
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Funny but not,
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my husband is her currency,
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and we can't afford it anymore.
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OK,
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so let's look at,
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there's lots of layers here.
2:35
So let's look at each of these pieces individually.
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The first is,
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I absolutely agree with you,
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Lauren,
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that when the baby was born,
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you had to be very present and engaged with the baby
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and therefore dad became
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the easy.
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Security blanket and crutch because you were occupied with the baby,
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so dad became her person,
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if you will.
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That is the nature of being dethroned as an oldest child.
3:03
It's also the nature of a predisposition
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for anxiety.
3:07
In other words,
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this isn't something that emerged right when the baby was born.
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There was always a predisposition toward anxiety.
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It has just
3:14
escalated quite a bit since the birth of the baby.
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So we know that kids often have the nature and the nurture components.
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In other,
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in other words,
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she is likely
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to be a more worried,
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anxious child by predisposition.
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And then now it has escalated to a point where she can no longer rein it back in.
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But
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these circumstances,
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meaning the
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nature,
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sorry,
3:37
the nurture part of it,
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did not
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create this.
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This is something that has been there as an undercurrent
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all along,
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and now it has just ramped up.
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OK,
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so now we'll talk through
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what anything uncomfortable happens to her.
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She immediately screams and cries for daddy.
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So what we know about that
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is
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Dad
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has become her regulator.
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The minute she has anything that she doesn't know how to handle.
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She needs dad to calm her down.
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And this is what happens in a lot of cases,
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not necessarily about attachment,
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but this will often happen with children whose parents
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always swoop in and control their behavior for them.
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Kids never learn what it feels like to regulate themselves.
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So this is a very similar situation but with different circumstances,
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obviously.
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She quote needs dad to help her calm down.
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She has no emotional regulation,
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she has no self-control,
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and she's reeling from these big feelings,
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and she believes that her only way out
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is for dad to fix it for her.
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So let's pause there.
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Let's go back to
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play therapy principles.
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The child-centered model says we are always communicating the 5 be-with attitudes.
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For those of my vets that have been listening to me for a long time,
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what are the 5 be-with attitudes?
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I'm sure you all said them.
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I'm here,
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I hear you,
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I understand,
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I care and I delight in you.
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So,
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when we operationalize
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those be with attitudes,
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we are always trying to communicate and convey those five things to our children.
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But here's what we do not convey,
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and this is just as important.
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It's just as important to think about what we want to communicate,
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but also what we will not communicate,
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and those three things,
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less discussed,
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so I won't pop quiz you on those.
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Less discussed are
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we will not always agree.
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I cannot make you happy.
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And I will not solve your problems.
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So in this scenario.
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We have 2 of the 3
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in play.
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She thinks that dad has to make her happy,
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and she thinks that dad has to solve her problems.
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The good news is,
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and every single one of you that are in this scenario,
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I know how prevalent this is,
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so I know that many of you listening
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have been in this situation with a child
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for maybe a certain stretch of time or maybe
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even right now or even in different circumstances,
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but the scenario is the same.
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Here's the good news.
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She doesn't need
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dad to solve her problems and she doesn't need dad to make her happy.
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She just thinks so.
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That's her default.
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So the silver lining is she is fully capable
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of solving her own problems and she's fully capable
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of making herself happy.
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But there needs to be a lot of skill building to get there.
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So we'll talk about that in a moment.
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Bedtime.
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All right,
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so now at this point,
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what probably started as
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an organic
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genuine scenario.
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She
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went to bed,
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she wanted dad.
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Dad came in,
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she fell asleep when he was in there.
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That was just a circumstantial scenario.
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Now it has become a conditioned habit and pattern of behavior.
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Good news is
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she can fall asleep without dad.
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She's just defaulting to I have to have him.
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He makes me happy.
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He solves my problems.
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We know that's not true.
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We also know that any child is capable of falling asleep without someone in the room.
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So,
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we'll get there,
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but
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when
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you go in
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and
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you are trying to
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be there in his stead,
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And you said she will not give in or calm down on her own.
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Here's my pep talk for you,
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Lauren,
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at all,
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all of you that
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have
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given in because you said your children will not give in.
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Let me pep talk to you for a second.
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I don't know if any of you watched the show Super Nanny,
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but I loved that show.
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Jo Frost,
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she and I are kindred spirits.
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I loved it.
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If you have no idea what I'm talking about,
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binge watch some episodes.
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Supernanny had an episode
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where it was the exact same scenario,
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except it wasn't that the child wanted someone in the room,
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the child would not stay in his bed.
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Walked into mom and dad's room every night trying to sleep in mom and dad's bed.
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So very similar circumstances.
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Here's what happened.
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Joe told Mom,
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get ready for a long night.
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I'm laughing because I vividly remember this episode.
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Get ready for a long night.
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And bedtime routine started,
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put little boy in bed.
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He got out of bed.
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Mom walked him back to bed.
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He got out of bed.
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Mom walked him back to bed.
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He got out of bed.
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Mom walked him back to bed the whole time Joe was in her earpiece going.
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You say
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you'd really like to sleep in our bed,
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but you're a big boy and your bed is where you sleep.
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We're going back to your bed
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and they time lapsed this
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because it went on for hours in reality.
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Time lapsed.
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They kept a running counter at the bottom of the screen,
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for how many times Mom put this child back in his bed.
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And at one point she gave up even going back to her bedroom.
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She slumped against the hallway wall right outside
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his room with a pillow and a blanket,
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and she was half asleep leaning up against the wall in the hallway,
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and every time he came out of the room,
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she got up and walked him back to his bed.
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She didn't even go back to her room anymore because it was too far of a walk.
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She was too exhausted.
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The time lapse count.
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If I remember correctly,
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got to 180 something maybe.
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The mom put him back in his bed 180 something times.
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At some point did the little boy start crying?
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Yes,
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at some point did the little boy start screaming.
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Yes,
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at some point did the mom want to give in?
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Absolutely.
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At some point did the mom say this isn't worth it.
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Yes,
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at some point did the mom say he's not going to give up.
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And guess what?
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The little boy gave up on the 186th time.
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And the whole point of me telling you the story,
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Lauren,
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et all,
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is
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when it's a battle of the wills,
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one of you is going to give in
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and it's not gonna be you.
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This is the mentality that you have to have in a scenario like this.
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I completely agree with you
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that letting her cry it out is not an appropriate solution.
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I've never once
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believed that is helpful at any age for any reason with any child.
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The whole mentality of let a child cry it out,
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I absolutely hate it at its core.
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I don't think that aligns with anything we know
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about children and their needs and their wants,
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and a child cries because they need something.
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So to let them feel abandoned and just quote cry it out even as an infant,
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this whole notion that leave an infant in their crib and let them cry it out,
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it's nonsense,
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in my opinion.
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So I'm not in favor at all
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of letting her cry it out.
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But you're not going to give in.
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This is the hinge pin.
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She will eventually give in Lauren.
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And I know you said several times
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she doesn't give up
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and she will not give in,
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and she does not calm down on her own
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and she will keep screaming and crying.
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All of those are true,
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and they have been true
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to a point.
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She will cry herself to sleep,
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she will scream herself to sleep.
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She will get so exhausted,
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she will fall asleep standing up if she has to.
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She will eventually
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give in without Dad being in the room.
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Now,
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we don't abandon her,
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we don't make her feel like she's alone.
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We don't let her cry it out.
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So here's where this comes in.
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You go into the mental go in with the mentality,
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one of us is going to give in and it's not going to be me.
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Prepare yourself.
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This is a battle.
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Go into it saying no matter what happens I will not give in.
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No matter what happens,
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I will not give up.
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You have to pep talk yourself.
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I'm giving you one,
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but you have to pep talk yourself too.
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OK,
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so once you've committed,
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no matter what,
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I will not give in.
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I will win this battle,
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and it will be my child that gives in.
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OK,
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so that's step 1,
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step 2.
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You very lovingly communicate the be with attitudes,
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and you reflect her feelings,
12:41
and you help her feel heard and understood.
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I'm here.
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I hear you.
12:48
I understand,
12:49
I care,
12:51
and I delight in you.
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You're sad,
12:54
you're angry,
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you're upset.
12:58
You're irritated.
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You're frustrated.
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You wish Dad could be in here.
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You really want to see him right now.
13:07
You validate,
13:08
validate,
13:08
validate.
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Here's another thing that you can do
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leading up to the night
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that you are going to implement the I will not give up before she gives up strategy.
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You may want to prepare her.
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So,
13:25
I'm gonna say her name is Jane.
13:26
I don't know.
13:27
So you're going to say,
13:29
Jane,
13:30
you usually want to go to sleep with daddy in the room,
13:34
but
13:35
As of
13:36
such and such day,
13:38
such and such time,
13:39
such and such date,
13:40
whatever you want it to be,
13:42
as of this Friday,
13:43
as of tomorrow,
13:44
as of February 1st,
13:46
as of your birthday,
13:47
as of whenever,
13:49
the sooner the better,
13:50
but whatever date you want to pick,
13:52
Daddy's no longer going to be in the room every night with you.
13:55
And that's all you say.
13:57
You're setting an expectation,
13:59
you're letting her process it.
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She's not even 3,
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it will be a very emotional processing,
14:05
but she's at least aware this isn't going to catch her off guard.
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And when said day comes.
14:12
You're going to
14:14
say,
14:15
OK,
14:16
tonight's the night that when you choose to go to bed,
14:19
dad's not gonna be in the room.
14:22
You can choose for me to be in the room or you can choose to go to sleep on your own.
14:25
Which do you choose?
14:27
Notice that you're giving her a choice.
14:30
You're returning responsibility.
14:33
You're letting her own
14:34
the consequences of her actions.
14:38
You're letting her understand that there are consequences.
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All of those things are aligned with the child-centered approach.
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And so you're gonna put her in bed,
14:48
Lauren
14:49
And whether she says she wants you to stay or she doesn't want you to stay.
14:54
The minute she calls for dad.
14:56
You start your
14:58
counter in the bottom of the screen.
15:01
OK,
15:02
I'm going to remind her every single time.
15:06
Today is Saturday
15:08
and dad's not gonna be in your room every night when you go to sleep anymore.
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You really want him to be here,
15:13
but I'm in here with you.
15:15
She's going to scream,
15:16
she's going to cry,
15:17
she's going to yell for dad.
15:19
If your husband has to leave
15:21
so that he doesn't have to suffer through it,
15:23
encourage him to do so.
15:26
Get in the shower,
15:28
drown out the noise,
15:29
blare the music in the garage,
15:30
whatever,
15:30
whatever needs to happen.
15:32
If he can't handle it,
15:33
he can leave.
15:35
But Lauren,
15:36
the goal is
15:37
you reflect,
15:39
you validate,
15:40
help her feel heard,
15:41
help her feel understood.
15:44
You
15:45
communicate the be with attitudes,
15:47
you give her choices,
15:48
you do everything that adheres to the
15:52
I
15:53
care about you and I'm preserving our relationship.
15:57
You certainly do not shut the door and let her cry it out.
16:01
You remind her over and over and over again,
16:03
you really wish that you could be with dad but dad's not gonna be in your room tonight.
16:08
I'm in here though.
16:10
She's going to do all the things she normally does.
16:13
She might even ramp up more than normal because
16:15
she's not getting the pattern that she's used to.
16:18
Remember,
16:19
whenever we make a change,
16:20
it forces someone else to change.
16:22
She's not choosing this change,
16:24
you're forcing this choice upon her.
16:26
It might unnerve her even more than normal.
16:29
It might disregulate her even more than normal.
16:31
Be prepared,
16:32
Lauren.
16:33
If it escalates,
16:34
it's normal and it's OK.
16:36
If it is the worst it has ever been,
16:39
you are not giving in.
16:42
You are going to continue to do all the things that we're talking about calmly,
16:47
neutrally.
16:48
You're not gonna start crying,
16:50
you're not gonna lose your stuff,
16:52
you're not going to get angry,
16:54
you're not going to yell,
16:56
you're not going to
16:57
say I can't do this anymore.
17:00
You're going to
17:02
Condition yourself
17:03
to be calm and neutral.
17:06
All the while
17:08
repeating to yourself.
17:10
I'm preserving the relationship by being present and using these skills.
17:15
I'm not going to give in.
17:18
And this is a necessary means to an end.
17:22
One of
17:22
the best phrases anyone ever told me.
17:25
When I was in grad school,
17:26
one of my professors said,
17:28
and this is a common phrase,
17:29
but I had heard it from her first.
17:31
People will change.
17:33
Our children will change.
17:36
When the pain of change
17:38
is less than the pain of things staying the same.
17:43
You don't want
17:45
the pain of things staying the same anymore.
17:48
So you're willingly choosing the pain of change.
17:51
So when she escalates,
17:53
when she screams,
17:54
when she cries,
17:54
when it is the worst it has ever been.
17:57
You know this is a means to an end,
17:59
to get rid of the pain of things staying the same.
18:03
She will eventually fall asleep.
18:06
She will eventually stop crying.
18:09
Our nervous systems can only handle that heightened state for so long.
18:14
We have a natural checks and balances in our nervous system,
18:17
which calms us down after a certain amount of time.
18:20
We cannot sustain
18:22
that level of intensity of emotions for very long.
18:26
She will eventually calm herself down
18:28
by default,
18:29
not because she wants to,
18:30
she just has to.
18:31
She will eventually fall asleep.
18:36
And the next night you will do it again,
18:37
and it will probably be less of a battle,
18:40
and the next night you will do it again,
18:41
and it might even not even be a battle by that point.
18:45
But she will have learned lots of things.
18:47
She will have learned that she can calm down.
18:49
She will have learned that she can give in when she's unhappy.
18:53
She will have learned that dad is not the
18:55
one that solves her problems and keeps her happy.
18:58
She will learn that she does not need Dad to fall asleep.
19:03
And she will have learned the beginning of an emotional vocabulary.
19:09
These are the things that we want for our kids anyway.
19:12
So Lauren
19:14
I hope that encourages you.
19:15
I hope that encourages all of you,
19:17
because
19:18
so many parents face a scenario like this.
19:22
We have to constantly be mindful.
19:26
That we are kind to our children.
19:28
When we keep boundaries.
19:31
When you set a boundary,
19:33
the dad is not for staying in your room every night before you fall asleep.
19:36
You keep it
19:38
Because their safety and security in the relationship
19:41
when we are true to our word.
19:44
And we remain present.
19:45
I'm here.
19:46
I hear you.
19:46
I understand.
19:47
I care and I delight in you,
19:49
and you're having a hard time and you are sad and you are angry.
19:52
We do all of the things that help her feel that we get it,
19:56
but we don't cave.
19:58
And we remain neutral all the while.
20:01
All right,
20:01
Lauren,
20:02
thank you so much for the email.
20:03
I hope that that's helpful for you.
20:04
Hope that's helpful for everyone.
20:06
If you would like to email me a question,
20:07
I'd love to hear from you brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
20:10
That's Brenna with two N's and singular kid.
20:13
So brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
20:15
If you're in the states,
20:16
you can leave a voicemail for me,
20:18
813-812-5525.
20:22
And I hope that
20:23
you continue to remind yourself of why.
20:27
You're listening to this podcast
20:29
and why you're striving to be the best parent that you can be.
20:32
Because we want to preserve the relationship with our kids
20:36
for
20:36
our whole lives.
20:38
The relationship is at the heart of everything in parenting,
20:41
and the parent-child relationship sustains all.
20:44
So these are the ways that we sustain that.
20:47
So Lauren,
20:47
I appreciate you and thanks to all of you for listening.
20:50
Thanks to all of you for
20:51
the commitment you have to your family.
20:53
Hope that encourages you.
20:54
Talk again soon.
20:55
Bye.
20:56
Thank you for listening to
20:57
the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
21:01
For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
21:05
please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.