Latest / Pit Talk / Can 2027 engine changes stop Verstappen from quitting F1?

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Can 2027 engine changes stop Verstappen from quitting F1? · Pit Talk

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Bittor, brought to you by Shannon's.
0:08
Speaker 1: On today's episode, Formula one power brokers agree in principle
0:12
Speaker 1: to make some fundamental changes to the contentious fifty to
0:15
Speaker 1: fifty hybrid engine for next season, But will the proposed
0:18
Speaker 1: new rules go far enough? And with maxwith Staffen said
0:22
Speaker 1: to take on the nerveburgering twenty four hours this weekend,
0:25
Speaker 1: is the four time champion embarking on a long f
0:28
Speaker 1: one goodbye and who could replace him at Red Bull Racing.
0:31
Speaker 1: My name's Michael Labanato. It's great to have your company
0:34
Speaker 1: and the company of my co hosts. He heard there's
0:36
Speaker 1: an Australing at the top of the list of maxwiths
0:38
Speaker 1: Staffan's successes, but he's preemptively declined.
0:41
Speaker 2: It's Matt playson Michael. I'm welcome to today's episode, of course,
0:46
Speaker 2: but I didn't want to get in the way of
0:47
Speaker 2: you like I thought you were to take the top
0:49
Speaker 2: spot and if everything else went completely wrong for Redbell
0:52
Speaker 2: to go, oh, all right, we'll give this other bloke
0:54
Speaker 2: a call, But no interesting interesting news. Possibly it's the
0:59
Speaker 2: most story non story in Formula one. The problem with
1:02
Speaker 2: Formula one at the moments, we don't have any races,
1:04
Speaker 2: so it's actually going to talk about something And yeah,
1:07
Speaker 2: so possibly a bit of a non story, but not
1:09
Speaker 2: completely without interest for people in this part of the world.
1:12
Speaker 2: Should we say yes, I think is it two races
1:15
Speaker 2: in nine or ten weekends, something absurd like that that
1:18
Speaker 2: we're in the middle of. Well you should know, because
1:20
Speaker 2: you're a man who slept like a normal human for
1:22
Speaker 2: the past two months, which is not something I often
1:25
Speaker 2: get to say to you in May of a Formula
1:27
Speaker 2: one season. Now you are going to copy it at
1:29
Speaker 2: the back end of the season when they go with
1:31
Speaker 2: the six races in six weekends because they need to
1:33
Speaker 2: squeeze bar rad and Saudi in because Formula one is
1:35
Speaker 2: not making enough money in twenty twenty six. But yeah,
1:38
Speaker 2: you'll copy it at the end of the year. But yeah,
1:40
Speaker 2: you're very fresh at the moment and there's a reason
1:41
Speaker 2: for this.
1:42
Speaker 1: Yes, for now, let's soak up the normal sleeping hours
1:45
Speaker 1: because Canada will not be normal.
1:47
Speaker 2: Man.
1:47
Speaker 1: We another weekend to wait for that one. But in
1:51
Speaker 1: the as is now, I guess customary for Formula one
1:53
Speaker 1: and these long breaks, the same thing happened in April.
1:55
Speaker 1: We'll decide on some rule changes just to keep things
1:58
Speaker 1: a little bit interesting. No rule changes imminently, though. This
2:01
Speaker 1: is all about twenty twenty seven, a little bit unsurprising.
2:04
Speaker 1: We knew a little bit surprising. Rather, we knew the
2:07
Speaker 1: teams and F one and the FIA and the engine manufacturers,
2:11
Speaker 1: we're all meeting about the medium term future of these regulations.
2:14
Speaker 1: And this comes up after, of course, as we talked
2:16
Speaker 1: about last week, the FI president saying that beyond five
2:19
Speaker 1: years he doesn't want these engines around anymore. But I
2:21
Speaker 1: didn't expect so much agreement so quickly. That's partly because
2:24
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven is actually not that far away, despite
2:26
Speaker 1: paying only four rounds into the season, now very nearly
2:29
Speaker 1: in the middle of the year. And this is all
2:31
Speaker 1: about reconfiguring that balance between combustion and electrical energy. At
2:35
Speaker 1: the moment, it's near fifty to fifty. It's like fifty
2:37
Speaker 1: three forty seven in favor of combustion. Just don't put
2:42
Speaker 1: that in an asterisk in the selling line, because it's
2:44
Speaker 1: a bit harder to get.
2:45
Speaker 2: But if we.
2:46
Speaker 1: Increase combustion by about fifty kilowatts and detuned electrical energy
2:50
Speaker 1: by about the same amount, will end up with something
2:51
Speaker 1: like sixty forty, which f one reckons will be a
2:55
Speaker 1: more normally behaved engine if you like something the drivers
2:58
Speaker 1: don't have to think too much about. They're also reportedly
3:01
Speaker 1: some other proposed changes that didn't make the press release,
3:03
Speaker 1: including maybe a bigger battery by an extra mega Jewel
3:06
Speaker 1: or middle Graham, depending on who you are, and also
3:09
Speaker 1: maybe more super clipping power to charge that battery faster,
3:12
Speaker 1: so faster charging higher capacity. Maybe some area changes as well.
3:15
Speaker 1: But Matt, there's always a real asterisk with these things,
3:18
Speaker 1: isn't there, Because there's going to be politics involved. There
3:20
Speaker 1: is going to have to come to a vote at
3:21
Speaker 1: some point. It's always very fraught in Formula one, and
3:24
Speaker 1: everyone has to agree to make these changes, even if
3:27
Speaker 1: it's by the end of the month. That's only seven
3:30
Speaker 1: months before twenty twenty seven. Some teams reportedly or have
3:32
Speaker 1: said publicly in fact they weren't intending to change their chassis.
3:35
Speaker 1: Some of those rule changes will involve chassi changes.
3:38
Speaker 2: Look with any of these things, when you've got a
3:41
Speaker 2: set of rules that are heavily compromised in their inception,
3:45
Speaker 2: and we've seen that fifty to fifty or the not
3:48
Speaker 2: so much rolling off the time fifty three to forty
3:49
Speaker 2: seven or however you want to say. There was always
3:52
Speaker 2: a compromise with these rules from day one, and I
3:55
Speaker 2: think what surprised me a little bit this and probably you,
3:57
Speaker 2: is that it's unusual for Formula one to put its
4:00
Speaker 2: hand up so quickly and go, oh, we've got a
4:02
Speaker 2: problem here and all we need to actually get on
4:04
Speaker 2: top of this and fix this now, because you said
4:06
Speaker 2: the key thing before, we've had four rounds, and it's
4:08
Speaker 2: taken six months to get there, but we've had four rounds,
4:11
Speaker 2: and so to so quickly abandon what this whole brave
4:15
Speaker 2: new formula was supposed to be about. I mean, how
4:18
Speaker 2: long had we been hearing about fifty to fifty split
4:20
Speaker 2: between normal engines and the electrical power to things. The
4:24
Speaker 2: agreement's the key thing for me, because when you are
4:27
Speaker 2: making a significant rule change, there's always going to be
4:30
Speaker 2: someone that's going to benefit heavily from that that may
4:32
Speaker 2: have got it wrong, and then there's always going to
4:34
Speaker 2: be someone that's disadvantaged and expecting Formula one to do
4:38
Speaker 2: the right thing for the greater good. It's all very
4:40
Speaker 2: sort of altruistic out of the manual of how to
4:42
Speaker 2: run a sporting series. We know that doesn't really work
4:45
Speaker 2: that way, so that's interesting in itself. But doing a
4:48
Speaker 2: lot of reading after this was discussed last week, obviously
4:51
Speaker 2: you know these things are being mooted. They're not set
4:54
Speaker 2: in stone yet. The knock on effect of teams that
4:58
Speaker 2: were planning on carrying chassis but between seasons, which is
5:00
Speaker 2: something that I hadn't initially thought about. When this came out,
5:03
Speaker 2: I thought, okay, here's another compromise here. And one of
5:07
Speaker 2: the interesting things, and I know you wrote about this
5:09
Speaker 2: on a piece of Fox sports dot com dot AU,
5:11
Speaker 2: is that they're even discussing potentially shortening grownd prix if
5:15
Speaker 2: we're going to have to deal with fuel tanks that
5:18
Speaker 2: aren't able to perhaps repel these cars through a full
5:20
Speaker 2: three hundred and five k distance. So with any of
5:22
Speaker 2: these actions, there always is a reaction. So there's two
5:26
Speaker 2: things here. Yes, we've got to get this through and
5:28
Speaker 2: get agreement, which is not going to be the work
5:29
Speaker 2: of a moment. But what can of worms are we
5:31
Speaker 2: opening by going down this path? And it's the equivalent
5:35
Speaker 2: of sticking a band aid on the open wound that
5:37
Speaker 2: is the twenty twenty six engine regulations because they were
5:39
Speaker 2: flowed from the beginning. We're kind of stuck with these
5:42
Speaker 2: for the next little while, and we're trying to do
5:44
Speaker 2: the best we can with a bad lot, if you like.
5:47
Speaker 2: But I do wonder what the unintended consequences of some
5:49
Speaker 2: of these moves are.
5:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to predict them. I mean, that's the
5:52
Speaker 1: nature of unintended consequences, I guess. But it's also because
5:54
Speaker 1: there are so many different angles of attack to this
5:58
Speaker 1: discussion based on what team manufacturer you are. If you're
6:01
Speaker 1: a team that was hoping or was intending to carry
6:04
Speaker 1: over the Chassin, you've already accounted for not spending money
6:07
Speaker 1: on that. Your point of view is either you get
6:09
Speaker 1: a concession or the changes aren't made. I think the
6:12
Speaker 1: F one perspective is probably interesting because there's an idea
6:15
Speaker 1: being floated around that. Okay, the idea of increasing fuel flow,
6:18
Speaker 1: which is the reason you need to change your shassi
6:20
Speaker 1: because you need a bigger fuel tank and that obviously
6:22
Speaker 1: needs to go somewhere. You can't carry over the same
6:23
Speaker 1: chass in that situation. Well, what if you only increase
6:26
Speaker 1: the fuel flow for qualifying, which is where the cars
6:28
Speaker 1: are driven most unusually, so you solve the qualifying problem,
6:31
Speaker 1: which I think is important, but the f one and
6:33
Speaker 1: you kind of, like all those overtakes on Sunday, you
6:36
Speaker 1: bring it back down to where it is now on Sundays,
6:38
Speaker 1: and you kind of get the best of both worlds.
6:40
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if fy one was arguing for
6:41
Speaker 1: that or alternatively, I mean, the shortening racist things feels
6:45
Speaker 1: like the rage quit option, doesn't it. No one can agree,
6:48
Speaker 1: so the FI just says, all right, well, the race
6:50
Speaker 1: are going to be short, and now now you have
6:51
Speaker 1: to deal with that. I'd be disappointed by that. I
6:54
Speaker 1: know that historically the three hundred and five kilometers thing
6:57
Speaker 1: hasn't been an all time proposition. I think it back
7:00
Speaker 1: to about the eighties.
7:01
Speaker 2: I know.
7:02
Speaker 1: I think we've talked about this before and I just
7:03
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly what it was. But it's long enough.
7:05
Speaker 1: Eighties is long enough ago that it feels like a
7:07
Speaker 1: concrete part of what a grand prix is. The grand
7:10
Speaker 1: prix has to mean something, it may as well mean
7:12
Speaker 1: the distance. So to shorten it for what presumably would
7:15
Speaker 1: be well at least a year, if not a few
7:17
Speaker 1: years until the engine Rualle changes I think would be
7:19
Speaker 1: a little bit disappointing. So there's that element of it.
7:22
Speaker 1: There's also the concept of, you know, the engine development,
7:27
Speaker 1: which we know is frozen in season. That's fine because
7:29
Speaker 1: this would be for next year. But some manufacturers, we
7:32
Speaker 1: don't know who yet, we'll know after the Canadian Grand
7:34
Speaker 1: Prix going to get concessions this year because they're too
7:38
Speaker 1: far behind Mercedes. Mercedes thinks it should only be Honda
7:41
Speaker 1: for obvious reasons. Ferrari, though, believes that it is eligible
7:45
Speaker 1: for those concessions, and that's probably the second best engine
7:48
Speaker 1: in the sport. I would say it's hard to say
7:49
Speaker 1: for certain, but probably now if you've got those concessions
7:53
Speaker 1: to suddenly develop in season, then you've got more concessions
7:55
Speaker 1: to develop next year's changed engine. And Mercedes isn't happy
7:58
Speaker 1: about that. So there's this other political element to it.
8:01
Speaker 2: Yes, there is. I'm still going back to when we're
8:03
Speaker 2: talking about shorter races. I just thought, I've just come
8:05
Speaker 2: up with a perfect solution. We just need forty eight
8:07
Speaker 2: sprint races. That's what happens. Let's let's do forty eighth sprint.
8:12
Speaker 2: Let's think, God, if it's forty eight sprint races. I
8:14
Speaker 2: might just push my chair out and not come back
8:15
Speaker 2: at this point. But yeah, Mercedes is the interesting one
8:18
Speaker 2: because you know, there's always, as with any big rule change,
8:21
Speaker 2: and we saw this, you know, as far back to
8:23
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen as well, there's always going to be someone
8:25
Speaker 2: that gets it more right than everybody else. Now, I
8:28
Speaker 2: don't think anyone can deny that the Honda thing is
8:30
Speaker 2: a complete mess and they need all the help they
8:32
Speaker 2: can get right now. So I don't think anyone's going to,
8:35
Speaker 2: you know, get too woud up about them getting a
8:37
Speaker 2: little bit getting a few concessions to try and actually
8:39
Speaker 2: be in the sport guy frankly littlelone competitive and fighting
8:42
Speaker 2: for anything else. The Ferrari thing, I admire the fact
8:47
Speaker 2: that they're trying it because it's there and you've got
8:49
Speaker 2: to try it to try and gain some sort of
8:51
Speaker 2: competitive advantage out of this. Does anyone really think that
8:54
Speaker 2: Ferrari leeds a great deal to help? Probably not, But
8:56
Speaker 2: it's one of those things that if you don't ask,
8:58
Speaker 2: you don't get right. So this is the issue with
9:00
Speaker 2: this is the issue when you make such a significant
9:04
Speaker 2: midstream changed like this is there's always going to be
9:08
Speaker 2: someone aggrieved by this. For every person that gains out
9:10
Speaker 2: of it, every team that gains out of it, there's
9:12
Speaker 2: going to be a team that feels aggrieved by it.
9:14
Speaker 2: And right now, if you're Mercedes, you're probably thinking, well,
9:16
Speaker 2: you know, why should we be penalized for getting this
9:19
Speaker 2: more right than everybody else? Right now, Yes, they have
9:21
Speaker 2: one of the first four races of the season. We've
9:23
Speaker 2: seen this before in twenty fourteen. They probably could have
9:25
Speaker 2: won every race that season if it wasn't for the
9:27
Speaker 2: running into each other and doing other silly things. And
9:29
Speaker 2: so these things do go in cycles, and the more
9:32
Speaker 2: maturer rule set is, the more people will tend to
9:34
Speaker 2: converge on the same solution. But we have a fundamental
9:37
Speaker 2: pr problem going on at the moment with these particular engines,
9:40
Speaker 2: because if we can get them to a point sometime
9:44
Speaker 2: this year or next year where the drivers become either
9:47
Speaker 2: neutral or advocates of what's going on, it becomes a
9:50
Speaker 2: selling proposition, right And so if the soundbites you're getting
9:53
Speaker 2: from the drivers are less negative all the time or
9:57
Speaker 2: sometimes we've had the Battery World Championship from Fernando Als,
10:00
Speaker 2: so we've had Max pastap and sounding off at every
10:01
Speaker 2: opportunity when there's an open mic in front of him.
10:04
Speaker 2: Try to find the balance with keeping the drivers not
10:07
Speaker 2: even on brand, but more satisfied with what you just
10:10
Speaker 2: mentioned before that artificial or not. The opening stages of
10:15
Speaker 2: the all four races, all four of them that we've
10:17
Speaker 2: had this year, have tended to be really interesting, perhaps
10:20
Speaker 2: a little bit inauthentic, but they've certainly been interesting with
10:22
Speaker 2: the amount of passing. And so this is the tricky
10:25
Speaker 2: needle we're trying to thread here. The drivers are going
10:28
Speaker 2: to be the greatest endorsers or not of this product,
10:32
Speaker 2: and trying to come up with something that keeps them
10:34
Speaker 2: more on side while appeasing the sports wish for entertainment.
10:39
Speaker 2: That's a really tricky needle to thread. But in terms
10:42
Speaker 2: of budget cap and spend and how far teams are
10:45
Speaker 2: planning in advance of twenty twenty seven, it's probably not
10:47
Speaker 2: something that a lot of our listeners would realize how
10:49
Speaker 2: far down the road these teams are planning, And you
10:52
Speaker 2: only have to look at that. We knew this twenty
10:54
Speaker 2: twenty six ruleset was coming in for quite a while,
10:56
Speaker 2: and the moment we did teams were running basically parallel
10:59
Speaker 2: project for a lot of the last couple of years,
11:01
Speaker 2: trying to be ready for twenty twenty six. And going
11:04
Speaker 2: back to what I said at the beginning, this is
11:05
Speaker 2: what amazes me that we's been years and years getting
11:07
Speaker 2: ready for twenty six and we've thrown her hands up
11:10
Speaker 2: after four rounds and said this doesn't work. We need
11:12
Speaker 2: some significant changes. It's a massive own goal for the sport.
11:15
Speaker 2: To some degree. Now we can paper over the cracks
11:17
Speaker 2: and try and get through the next few years. But
11:19
Speaker 2: I'm amazed it's been allowed to get to this point.
11:21
Speaker 1: To be honest, Yeah, we've got to remember and you know, one,
11:23
Speaker 1: there are a couple of people who are probably feeling
11:26
Speaker 1: are allowing themselves to feel a little bit smug, I think,
11:29
Speaker 1: particularly while Max with staff, and I guess he's obviously
11:31
Speaker 1: been pretty openly critical, not only this year though, but
11:34
Speaker 1: for a few years when they as you say, they've
11:37
Speaker 1: been working on these cars for quite a while. Even
11:38
Speaker 1: if the regulations are only published in their final element
11:40
Speaker 1: last year, the engine rules had been known for a while.
11:43
Speaker 1: They've been using him the simulator, and he pointed out
11:45
Speaker 1: it was not going to be very good, not very
11:47
Speaker 1: fun to drive. Christian Horner was another one, and I
11:50
Speaker 1: remember we're having not discounted what he was saying at
11:54
Speaker 1: the time, but it certainly felt like commentary from someone
11:57
Speaker 1: who just started their own engine program and had realized
12:00
Speaker 1: was going to be hard. Yeah, and you know, trying
12:03
Speaker 1: to get you know, when he was calling for why
12:04
Speaker 1: don't we just go back to V eight engines? Ironically
12:06
Speaker 1: something else that's probably gonna happen in the next five years,
12:08
Speaker 1: but it felt a lot like someone who was saying, Wow,
12:11
Speaker 1: it's hard to build these complex engines. You know, we
12:13
Speaker 1: need to water them down a little bit, rather than
12:14
Speaker 1: the genuine warning that it ended up being and the
12:17
Speaker 1: truth that it ended up being. You've got to wonder
12:19
Speaker 1: what some of the other engine manufacturers were seeing in
12:21
Speaker 1: their simulations though that no one brought this up other
12:23
Speaker 1: than Red Bull and that was enough to ignore the problems.
12:28
Speaker 1: It was a fascinating to be interesting one day to
12:31
Speaker 1: you know, someone will write the history book on the
12:33
Speaker 1: decisions made to build these engines, because it feels like
12:35
Speaker 1: there are a lot of mised warnings, but not only that,
12:38
Speaker 1: maybe a lot of willful turning a blind eye to
12:41
Speaker 1: the problem. Whether that's just because formulae historically does overcome
12:44
Speaker 1: problems very well, and this just happens to be one
12:47
Speaker 1: problem that's a little bit too large to have overcome seamlessly.
12:50
Speaker 1: Because even thinking back to the start problems we've had
12:52
Speaker 1: this year, Ferrari said it last year, they said, well,
12:55
Speaker 1: I think this can be a lot of problems with
12:56
Speaker 1: the start, and everyone said, no, there's not, and then
12:58
Speaker 1: there were, and then have to change the rules about it.
13:01
Speaker 1: So it's a really fascinating, fascinating case studying to go
13:04
Speaker 1: back and see how these decisions were made, because now
13:07
Speaker 1: we are facing a year of I don't want to
13:09
Speaker 1: say compromise. I don't think that's fair. I think the
13:11
Speaker 1: sport overall is still the race has still happened, Quia
13:14
Speaker 1: Wang still happens, the fastest drivers still end up in front.
13:16
Speaker 1: It's not a disaster, but clearly the rules are not
13:20
Speaker 1: fit for purpose, probably fair to say. And now we're
13:23
Speaker 1: going to be in a proposition where we're probably they
13:25
Speaker 1: do have to agree to have changes for next year.
13:28
Speaker 2: And here was you suggesting that Christian Horder might have
13:30
Speaker 2: just been being a little bit disingenuous. Incredible, that's absolutely
13:35
Speaker 2: never happened in all of Christian Horder's time before one.
13:38
Speaker 2: It turns out he knew exactly everything about everything all
13:40
Speaker 2: along and we were misjudging him. But you mentioned before
13:43
Speaker 2: about the maybe willfully turning a blind eye to some
13:46
Speaker 2: of the consequences of some of these changes. I do wonder,
13:49
Speaker 2: and this feels like a completely separate podcast. I won't
13:51
Speaker 2: labor on this for too long, but Formula one, the
13:54
Speaker 2: structure of the teams and the way it's put together
13:56
Speaker 2: now it's very different from the days of I don't
13:59
Speaker 2: want to the word privateers, but it's more teams that
14:02
Speaker 2: were maybe a little bit more nimble and a little
14:04
Speaker 2: bit more agile because the name of the team, principle
14:06
Speaker 2: was the name of the team above the door and
14:07
Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. You're now dealing with massive
14:10
Speaker 2: multinational companies who have road car concerns and fingers in
14:16
Speaker 2: a lot of other motorsports pies, and it's very difficult
14:19
Speaker 2: to Formula one is just part of the business for
14:22
Speaker 2: some of these massive companies, and perhaps there's just a
14:26
Speaker 2: bigger picture that's playing here, or maybe a lack of
14:29
Speaker 2: fagility to identify a problem publicly announce that problem. And
14:32
Speaker 2: then go about trying to fix it when you're dealing
14:34
Speaker 2: with a big corporate And I just wonder how much
14:36
Speaker 2: that plays into it, because you know, you were saying
14:39
Speaker 2: before Ferrari figured out pretty early that starts we've got
14:42
Speaker 2: to be compromised. I'm sure you know, good for them,
14:44
Speaker 2: but I'm sure they weren't the only team that knew that.
14:46
Speaker 2: But maybe some people just kept quiet about it. And again,
14:48
Speaker 2: as you were talking about, with the restrictions of the
14:51
Speaker 2: way these engines are running to start with, so it's
14:53
Speaker 2: the same problem for everybody, it's just that some people
14:55
Speaker 2: were more willing to put their hand up and talk
14:57
Speaker 2: about it. And you know, at the time, yeah, Christian
14:59
Speaker 2: who and as comments did sound a bit like, oh,
15:01
Speaker 2: we're on our back foot here, we need something to
15:03
Speaker 2: be more in the game, which is just the classic
15:06
Speaker 2: thing you do if you're an underdog or you're feeling
15:08
Speaker 2: like you're a bit vulnerable. But perhaps some of these
15:10
Speaker 2: other entities did know about some of these problems and
15:13
Speaker 2: just weren't incentivized to talk about them.
15:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's really fascinating before we move on, you know,
15:18
Speaker 1: and we've been talking about this for a couple of
15:19
Speaker 1: weeks now. We've already talked about again the change presumed
15:22
Speaker 1: or mooted changed to probably V eights or something like
15:25
Speaker 1: that in twenty thirty or twenty thirty one. But the
15:28
Speaker 1: rewriting or the reflection on history. We did you talk
15:31
Speaker 1: about this a few weeks ago as well, when Stefan
15:33
Speaker 1: de Minicalis sort of was beginning to talk about moving
15:36
Speaker 1: beyond these engines, which was usually assigned. Some decisions had
15:38
Speaker 1: already been made but not announced because you don't freelance
15:41
Speaker 1: like that. But the fact that both they're fun and
15:43
Speaker 1: the FIA said things like we were hostage to the
15:46
Speaker 1: manufacturers in writing these rules. They all thought they were
15:48
Speaker 1: going all electric hat to do it. And we've since
15:50
Speaker 1: heard from audio at least saying, well, we didn't ask
15:52
Speaker 1: for fifty to fifty. We just said we didn't want
15:54
Speaker 1: the MGUH because that was too complicated and everyone have
15:56
Speaker 1: an advantage, but we're happy with whatever. So there's clearly
15:59
Speaker 1: some some reckoning to be done about you know, where
16:02
Speaker 1: did this decision make him come from? It's it gonna
16:04
Speaker 1: be one of those things where supposedly no one made
16:06
Speaker 1: the decision that just appeared in the rules on its own,
16:08
Speaker 1: but I wrote the rules too, knows it could be anything.
16:11
Speaker 2: Don't don't joke about that it might have happened.
16:13
Speaker 1: Fascinating to find out one day. Let's move on though,
16:17
Speaker 1: to Move of the Week, brought to you by Shannon's.
16:19
Speaker 1: We had Murder GP in action over the weekend. They're
16:23
Speaker 1: still racing. It's good to have some racing on track
16:25
Speaker 1: these days, sure is.
16:27
Speaker 2: And you won't be surprised to know that, given and
16:29
Speaker 2: I have my head rather in Murder GP quite a
16:31
Speaker 2: lot these days that I am going there. I've got
16:34
Speaker 2: two possible nominations, but I think I'm going to go
16:36
Speaker 2: for the one that makes you WinCE, mostly because I
16:38
Speaker 2: know you love a good Motor GP injury story, well,
16:42
Speaker 2: Mark Marquez is he had an enormous crash in the
16:46
Speaker 2: sprint race at Lamont on the weekend and going in
16:50
Speaker 2: to get surgery on a broken foot that he's broken
16:52
Speaker 2: that crash, but then also mentioned and he was going
16:55
Speaker 2: to go in for surgery after this weekend's Cattalonia Grand Prix,
16:58
Speaker 2: which he's now brought forward because he's getting his brew
17:00
Speaker 2: and foot fixed. He had some bent and broken screws
17:04
Speaker 2: in his shoulder from previous operations that were basically impacting
17:09
Speaker 2: the radial nerve in his shoulder only when he was
17:12
Speaker 2: riding a motor GP bike. So the position that he
17:14
Speaker 2: had to put his body and to rideing a motor
17:16
Speaker 2: GP bike. So he would train motocross, it was fine,
17:19
Speaker 2: he'd go day to day, it was fine. Riding a
17:21
Speaker 2: moto GP bike, his shoulder would go intermittently numb, so
17:25
Speaker 2: he couldn't actually feel what his right shoulder was doing.
17:28
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because his pace this year has been
17:30
Speaker 2: quite frankly all over the place. He's been really quite
17:33
Speaker 2: good on occasions, and he's been quite lost on other occasions,
17:36
Speaker 2: and he's just struggling for feeling. His right arm was
17:38
Speaker 2: literally going numb on the bike and it was because
17:41
Speaker 2: he'd had this broken foot that he decided to go
17:42
Speaker 2: and to get the shoulder fixed as well. But imagine
17:45
Speaker 2: wrestling one of those things around and he didn't know
17:48
Speaker 2: when it was going to come. So he could start
17:50
Speaker 2: a race and feel completely fine, and then halfway through
17:51
Speaker 2: the race he couldn't have any feeling in his right shoulder.
17:54
Speaker 2: And think about the complexity of that. Oh my shoulder works,
17:57
Speaker 2: Oh my shoulder does not work. You're doing this lap
17:59
Speaker 2: by lap riding one of these things at three hundred
18:01
Speaker 2: and fifty k is an hour against twenty one other lunatics.
18:04
Speaker 2: And in true motor GP style, he's had the broken
18:06
Speaker 2: foot done and he's had the shoulder done and he's
18:07
Speaker 2: going to miss this weekend but he probably be back
18:09
Speaker 2: to the next one certainly fine. But yeah, I think
18:12
Speaker 2: that he said. I think he's had six different right
18:14
Speaker 2: shoulder operations and they can't even work out which operation
18:18
Speaker 2: it was. That the screws were left in there and
18:19
Speaker 2: they've bent and they're basically pinching this particular nerve so
18:22
Speaker 2: he can't feel it. So move of the week Mark
18:25
Speaker 2: Waquez going to hospital or the day of the French
18:26
Speaker 2: Grold prior to get both operations done. But man, what
18:29
Speaker 2: a circumstance to have to get there. And yes, Motor
18:33
Speaker 2: GP write a declared fit is still one of the
18:35
Speaker 2: most ridiculous sentences in all of motorsports.
18:38
Speaker 1: It's just bent screws, is not. I never want to
18:41
Speaker 1: hear about bent bone screws now, just the number of
18:45
Speaker 1: times it's happened. Now we know obviously he's got this
18:47
Speaker 1: history with his the whole right right side of his
18:50
Speaker 1: body at this point after twenty twenty. But it just
18:53
Speaker 1: feels like every I'd love to go back and do
18:55
Speaker 1: the average of time. Maybe every six months we discover
18:58
Speaker 1: some new subsequent in that's been knocked on from that
19:01
Speaker 1: that he's just been living with for probably a year.
19:04
Speaker 1: But wow, since I'm going to hospital tomorrow anyway, as
19:06
Speaker 1: we'll get that one sorted out. It's just it's remarkable.
19:10
Speaker 1: It's also remarkable, you know, maybe this maybe he won
19:12
Speaker 1: the championship with ben screws in his shoulder and no feeling.
19:15
Speaker 2: Very possibly did And this is what makes these guys
19:17
Speaker 2: just they are the greatest gladiators in motorsporught these guys.
19:20
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be allowed to some degree in twenty twenty six.
19:23
Speaker 2: We live it. We live in such a fluo, vest
19:26
Speaker 2: invested world of you know, workplace practices and what have
19:29
Speaker 2: you these days, in every other aspect of life. But
19:31
Speaker 2: yet this is still allowed to happen. So I'm glad
19:32
Speaker 2: that it does. But man as moves go, I mean, look,
19:36
Speaker 2: the fact that he now knows his body so well
19:38
Speaker 2: that he can basically diagnose. Yeah, there's a bit of
19:40
Speaker 2: an issue here. I think it might be this, and
19:41
Speaker 2: the doctor's go in there and go, eh, you're completely right.
19:43
Speaker 2: So look move of the week. He's got himself into
19:46
Speaker 2: hospital or do we back? Probably bigger and better than ever.
19:49
Speaker 2: I guess the key part of all of this is
19:52
Speaker 2: that he's pretty much out of championship contention now and
19:56
Speaker 2: in it to write someone as good as him off,
19:57
Speaker 2: but he's too far behind and he's not going to
19:59
Speaker 2: be when he comes back, at least for a few rounds.
20:02
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's never a dull moment with this guy,
20:05
Speaker 2: And yeah, what happened at Lamon just proves it, doesn't it.
20:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, remarkable scenes. I was going to choose Moto GP
20:11
Speaker 1: as well. I've come up with a more left field option,
20:13
Speaker 1: but I will just give honorable mention. I think we
20:15
Speaker 1: should to or haey Martin start.
20:16
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh my god, Yeah, remarkable? Was it?
20:19
Speaker 1: Eight? They started eighth, didn't he? And then moved all
20:21
Speaker 1: the way up to first and inside and then around
20:23
Speaker 1: the outside move at the first two turns. Absolutely crazy,
20:27
Speaker 1: remarkable start, a remarkable weekend for him as well, doing
20:29
Speaker 1: the double victory, and now he's only one point behind
20:31
Speaker 1: the championship lead. Correct, It felt like I don't know
20:33
Speaker 1: if it's just because of the funny I mean, you
20:35
Speaker 1: obviously didn't start in Marco Beitzeki's form, but then also
20:38
Speaker 1: there's been the funny background politics of you know, he's
20:40
Speaker 1: probably gonna leave the team and all that kind of
20:42
Speaker 1: stuff that I think mentally, I don't want to say
20:44
Speaker 1: I wrote him off, but just he faded from center
20:47
Speaker 1: stage a little bit for me, and until it felt
20:49
Speaker 1: like mentum was against him. But it feels like we're
20:51
Speaker 1: seeing Orgey Martin back again now and that was a
20:53
Speaker 1: big sign.
20:54
Speaker 2: I'd urge any when it hasn't seen the start of
20:56
Speaker 2: that race. There is a fantastic name. MOTORGP put it
20:59
Speaker 2: out in a tweet. There's an aerial shot of the
21:00
Speaker 2: first sequence of corners. He comes from so far back
21:04
Speaker 2: that it looks like it's in a video game. Yes,
21:06
Speaker 2: And the three riders he overtook around the outside to
21:10
Speaker 2: take the lead into the first chicane were Mark Marquez, Pekovangnay,
21:13
Speaker 2: and Mark Oposeki, and he just swept past all of
21:15
Speaker 2: them while they weren't there, And all of a sudden,
21:17
Speaker 2: it's like, good lord, he's first in their first and
21:19
Speaker 2: earth did he do that? It was a one in
21:21
Speaker 2: a million start, but the execution and seeing the opportunity
21:25
Speaker 2: and going for it, it was absolutely starting. And yet
21:27
Speaker 2: he is well and truly back, isn't he?
21:29
Speaker 1: Yes? The move was putting his video game to easy
21:32
Speaker 1: mode for the start. Yeah, the best way to play
21:33
Speaker 1: any video game, I think. Indeed, I'm going to go
21:35
Speaker 1: a bit left field and also lead us on to
21:37
Speaker 1: where this podcast is going. Anyway, And now we talked
21:39
Speaker 1: about maximstappangod Neberg being twenty four hours part of his
21:43
Speaker 1: preparations or probably more likely, I think part of Red
21:46
Speaker 1: Bull's preparations to get as much content from him as
21:48
Speaker 1: possible over the next week. Was he headed? I'm not
21:51
Speaker 1: sure if you saw this video map to Fuji Speedway
21:53
Speaker 1: in Japan. Did one or two time hosts of the
21:56
Speaker 1: four Long Girl preak? Couple of time hosts? Anyway, it
21:58
Speaker 1: was as is the way in frudious oaking. Wet couldn't
22:00
Speaker 1: see anything, the rain was heavy, and the point of
22:03
Speaker 1: the video or the challenge of it was he had
22:05
Speaker 1: to try and match the experienced and super GT driver
22:08
Speaker 1: at Sushi miake On in his own race, specknissen Z.
22:13
Speaker 1: In these conditions it took him one laugh to match
22:17
Speaker 1: the time, and then at his second lap he obliterated
22:21
Speaker 1: by about two seconds. I mean, this guy's own car.
22:25
Speaker 1: That for me his power move of the week from
22:28
Speaker 1: Max for Staffan. And I've got a wonder I was
22:30
Speaker 1: thinking about this as I watched it. You know, as
22:31
Speaker 1: they're watching it, they've got the garage shots and they
22:33
Speaker 1: had a little clock counting down. They're showing the sector times.
22:36
Speaker 1: They're all going purple for that second attempt. How do
22:38
Speaker 1: they choose the person to offer up to be destroyed by? Yeah?
22:45
Speaker 1: How did like if you get the phone call, if
22:47
Speaker 1: you're old mate at sushi here and you get the
22:50
Speaker 1: phone call saying Max for Staffan is going to take
22:53
Speaker 1: your car and try to try and equal you at
22:55
Speaker 1: a renowned racing circle, conditions are probably going to be
22:58
Speaker 1: awful what he had you respond to that?
23:01
Speaker 2: I mean, look the way you can spin it. I mean,
23:03
Speaker 2: it's all about spin with these sorts of things, isn't.
23:04
Speaker 2: It's like, well, you know, it took an all time
23:07
Speaker 2: great Formula One driver to come here and actually be
23:09
Speaker 2: faster than me, because I've fastened everybody else, so that
23:11
Speaker 2: therefore makes me look actually pretty good. By comparison. But man,
23:14
Speaker 2: that is a tricky circuit too. So you mentioned the
23:16
Speaker 2: two races at Fuji. I was at both of them
23:18
Speaker 2: because it was famous. That was the famous Mark Weber.
23:21
Speaker 2: It's kids to come along without enough experience. And I
23:24
Speaker 2: won't I won't repeat the rest of that quote because
23:25
Speaker 2: some of you wouldn't know it. But yeah, I did
23:28
Speaker 2: see that. And the crazy part about that watching Max
23:30
Speaker 2: go and do that for content the great word of
23:32
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. It wasn't surprising in the slightest. You
23:36
Speaker 2: actually would have been surprised if he went there and
23:37
Speaker 2: he was a bit rubbish because the class is so good.
23:40
Speaker 2: And yeah, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I mean,
23:42
Speaker 2: obviously no burgering and that race is there's a lot
23:46
Speaker 2: of trap doors that can tribute up at that particular race.
23:48
Speaker 2: But it would not surprise anyone in the slightest if
23:50
Speaker 2: he goes there and does incredibly well this weekend.
23:52
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not. It is going to be one of
23:54
Speaker 1: the stories of this weekend. Let's move on to that
23:56
Speaker 1: Max with stapp and yeah he's going this week and
23:58
Speaker 1: where he's going at the end of the year. I'm
24:00
Speaker 1: never in twenty four hours is what he's doing this weekend.
24:02
Speaker 1: It's been a bit of a bucket list item, something
24:03
Speaker 1: he's been building up to for the last couple of years.
24:06
Speaker 1: I guess I'm not only is he a TT three
24:08
Speaker 1: team owner with the I think is it's still called
24:11
Speaker 1: Max forstaffend dot com Racing.
24:14
Speaker 2: I believe it is.
24:15
Speaker 1: Anyway, like people don't need people don't go directly to
24:18
Speaker 1: the ul's anywhere anyway, not the point he's been building
24:21
Speaker 1: up to it. The calendars have obviously aligned with this
24:23
Speaker 1: coincidental two weeks off between Miami and Canada, great news
24:27
Speaker 1: for him. Fans have responded by selling out the events.
24:31
Speaker 1: Wow an event that's normally, I mean, one of the
24:34
Speaker 1: big endurance events, but it's relatively niche. I'm willing to
24:37
Speaker 1: bet most people listening to this podcast hadn't thought about
24:40
Speaker 1: this before Max with Stafford turned up. There a couple
24:43
Speaker 1: of stats for you that are a little bit loose.
24:45
Speaker 1: No F one driver of his status has ever won
24:48
Speaker 1: this race. Some evented winners who have raced in F
24:52
Speaker 1: one include Pedro Lami from the nineteen nineties may remember him,
24:56
Speaker 1: Marcus Winklehock, who entered I own I think a handful
24:58
Speaker 1: of race is a best safety car driver. Burned my
25:02
Speaker 1: Lander is a winner nice so is Nicki Louder. But
25:05
Speaker 1: it was in nineteen seventy three before he'd even won
25:07
Speaker 1: a race in four or at least before he'd won
25:09
Speaker 1: of his championships in Formula one. Sures that coincided with
25:11
Speaker 1: his first Grand Prix victory, and that year that Nicki
25:14
Speaker 1: that out of one wasn't a twenty four hour race.
25:16
Speaker 1: It was a dual eight hour heat race for some reason.
25:19
Speaker 1: The safety and noise complaints is what I read. Anyway,
25:23
Speaker 1: there's a little side story in history there. Maxi Stappan
25:25
Speaker 1: wants to try and win it, reasonable chance of doing
25:27
Speaker 1: it because he won if you remember, it must have
25:29
Speaker 1: been in the April break. I suppose a six hour
25:32
Speaker 1: Newburgering race. I think it was, except it was stripped
25:35
Speaker 1: from him for a tire infringement. They used too many
25:37
Speaker 1: tires over the course of the of course of the
25:39
Speaker 1: race router. So he's clearly got the pace. This is obvious.
25:42
Speaker 1: He is in contention. It would be a remarkable victory.
25:45
Speaker 1: But also it's hard about to separate this from the
25:49
Speaker 1: talk we've heard through all year that he's not getting
25:51
Speaker 1: satisfaction from wman to one at the moment, he's not
25:52
Speaker 1: enjoying the way the rules work. Maybe the rule changes,
25:55
Speaker 1: if they come about, will save his F one career,
25:57
Speaker 1: if you like. He's clearly having a great amount of
26:00
Speaker 1: racing GT cars, And I wonder if this is the
26:02
Speaker 1: long goodbye, if you like, or the long fade out
26:04
Speaker 1: to Maxistaffam.
26:05
Speaker 2: Yeah. And part of this equation too, is that you
26:08
Speaker 2: can look at the date date of birthings he was
26:11
Speaker 2: only twenty eight years old. What's he doing looking at
26:13
Speaker 2: sports cars and everything else? But he's not your standard
26:15
Speaker 2: twenty eight year old Formula one driver because he was
26:18
Speaker 2: the youngest driver in Formula one history to start a
26:20
Speaker 2: Grand Prix. Now the fact that he's been around, I
26:22
Speaker 2: mean it's ten years ago next week that he won
26:24
Speaker 2: that first Grand Prix at Catalonia, which is nuts to
26:27
Speaker 2: think about that. So you know, he's sort of twenty
26:30
Speaker 2: eight going on thirty three instead of normal Formula white age,
26:33
Speaker 2: I guess. And because he is so black and white
26:36
Speaker 2: with what he does and doesn't like about Formula One,
26:37
Speaker 2: he's pretty it sounds like a weird thing to say.
26:40
Speaker 2: He's a much more normal person than a lot of
26:42
Speaker 2: other Formula one people, to be perfectly honest, and Formula
26:44
Speaker 2: one is not a normal environment. You do wonder that
26:48
Speaker 2: he is a guy who races because he loves racing.
26:50
Speaker 2: He doesn't race necessarily because it's about the latest fashion
26:53
Speaker 2: brand or the latest watch, or the collaboration with the
26:55
Speaker 2: sponsor or whatever it might be. He's a throwback in
26:58
Speaker 2: that regard, So is it part of a longerd bye. Look,
27:03
Speaker 2: there's been some agitating this year from him because Red
27:07
Speaker 2: Bulls not particularly competitive, but not only because of that.
27:10
Speaker 2: I think there's a purity to the way he likes
27:12
Speaker 2: to go. Car racing that Formula one isn't providing at
27:15
Speaker 2: the moment because it has been massively compromised, as we've
27:17
Speaker 2: seen so far this year. And sports car racing that
27:20
Speaker 2: you know, you can get into balance of performance and
27:23
Speaker 2: all sorts of other intricacies with that sort of format
27:26
Speaker 2: of the sport, but it's probably more pure driving than
27:28
Speaker 2: anything else, which is the sort of thing that he
27:30
Speaker 2: tends to prefer. So he strikes me as the sort
27:33
Speaker 2: of guy who won't have a particularly long F one future,
27:36
Speaker 2: but will have a long sports car future. Like you
27:38
Speaker 2: can imagine forty three year old Max for staff and
27:40
Speaker 2: rolling up doing some sort of sports car racing in
27:42
Speaker 2: the future because it's a chance to race something. But
27:45
Speaker 2: is he going to have the you know, I was
27:48
Speaker 2: going to say Fernando a lotso leg Formula one career,
27:50
Speaker 2: but that's sort a completely different plane. But you would
27:54
Speaker 2: be shocked, for example, if I mean, even if Max
27:56
Speaker 2: was to stay in Formula One, it's not going to
27:58
Speaker 2: be for another nine years. He's well past the midpoint
28:01
Speaker 2: of his career at this point. So maybe this is
28:04
Speaker 2: it's twofold here, it's dipping a toe into something that
28:06
Speaker 2: he does like and that will be part of his future,
28:08
Speaker 2: regardless of how long the Formula One future lasts. But
28:11
Speaker 2: a lot of guys will say, you know, I'm not
28:13
Speaker 2: going to hang around for this. I don't particularly like this.
28:15
Speaker 2: He's one guy that you would back to actually go
28:17
Speaker 2: through with it. If he really didn't like Formula One enough,
28:19
Speaker 2: he'd just be like, no, I'm done with this and
28:21
Speaker 2: I'm off. He's not going to be hanging around for
28:24
Speaker 2: the term that I haven't used on this podcast for
28:26
Speaker 2: a while, The great Kimbi Ricket had superannuation to it.
28:31
Speaker 1: No I don't see him going down that road at all.
28:34
Speaker 1: I do think you're right. I mean, I wouldn't be
28:35
Speaker 1: surprised if he did get through this year and continued
28:38
Speaker 1: in formula one. If his contract is meant to explain
28:40
Speaker 1: it into twenty eight. Yes, if that was it. If
28:43
Speaker 1: we got that far and he decided that was it,
28:44
Speaker 1: he wanted, wants time to go and do other things,
28:47
Speaker 1: to be good at other categories, although clearly needed very
28:49
Speaker 1: little time. I get good at GT three category having
28:53
Speaker 1: raised there a couple of times, and we know Lemon's
28:55
Speaker 1: on the list. Who knows what else is on the list?
28:57
Speaker 1: In fact, tangentially, I suppose Ford, which is returning to Lemon,
29:00
Speaker 1: wants Maxi Stappan to drive for it at some point,
29:03
Speaker 1: given the connections there. But I want to come back
29:05
Speaker 1: to the idea that he doesn't have a probably a
29:07
Speaker 1: long ful widow one career ahead of him by his choice,
29:10
Speaker 1: because in the last couple of weeks they've been all
29:12
Speaker 1: sorts of speculation about which way his features going one.
29:15
Speaker 1: Pablo Montoya probably the highest profile speculator. I think you're
29:19
Speaker 1: speaking to the BBC. Oh No, he wasn't. You're speaking
29:20
Speaker 1: to some gambling website for this. Of course, he was
29:22
Speaker 1: suggesting that, I mean everyone has to these days. A
29:25
Speaker 1: surprise we're not speaking to a gambling website right now,
29:28
Speaker 1: that he could not only leave Red Bull Racing, but
29:30
Speaker 1: perhaps could do a straight swap with Oscar Piastre. And
29:33
Speaker 1: we've since seen reported in by Auto Sporting some other
29:36
Speaker 1: publications that Oscar Piastris are the top of Red Bull
29:38
Speaker 1: Racing's listed if Max with Stappin were to quit. A
29:40
Speaker 1: couple of other people talking along similar terms. I think
29:42
Speaker 1: Ralph Schumacho is always good for a quote to Germany
29:45
Speaker 1: Sky Sport, and also Johnny Herbert, who was also speaking
29:49
Speaker 1: to a gambling with the He also speaking to a
29:50
Speaker 1: gambling website about how Max with Stappin might leave for
29:52
Speaker 1: lavon twenty four hours. The past three links obviously one
29:54
Speaker 1: that's been of interest to Australians because he's Australian. He's
29:58
Speaker 1: been doing okay, very well last year. I want to
30:01
Speaker 1: start with that Red Bull connection. First of all, very
30:04
Speaker 1: tempting to believe it, I suppose, because we know many
30:06
Speaker 1: people should anyway that Mark Webber raced for Red Bull Racing,
30:10
Speaker 1: But beyond that, I don't think it makes very much sense,
30:13
Speaker 1: and I think it's worth pointing out, Matt. I mean,
30:15
Speaker 1: anyone can compile a list, and anyone can put anyone
30:18
Speaker 1: at the top of the list. It doesn't really mean anything.
30:20
Speaker 2: The only thing I would say that is meaningful about
30:23
Speaker 2: the list I'd love to see the list. Is it
30:25
Speaker 2: written down in pen like is it an Excel document? Like?
30:28
Speaker 2: How are we organizing this? But what Piastre does tick
30:33
Speaker 2: is the box of an a lister who's in the
30:36
Speaker 2: right age and stage of his career. And that's actually
30:39
Speaker 2: a pretty short list. When you come up with who
30:42
Speaker 2: would be possibly a team leader for a forward focused championship,
30:46
Speaker 2: a team used to winning championships, it's actually not too
30:49
Speaker 2: many guys that fit on that list. When you think
30:51
Speaker 2: about it. They'll see some that are too old, or
30:52
Speaker 2: they're too entrenched elsewhere, or perhaps you know, the peak
30:56
Speaker 2: of their career has come and gone and there's maybe
30:58
Speaker 2: no one pushing up from the Junior four formula. I
31:00
Speaker 2: think it says two things at the same time. It
31:02
Speaker 2: shows you how highly regarded Piastre is of the potentially
31:07
Speaker 2: available guys in that particular sweet spot of their career.
31:10
Speaker 2: It's not a long list. I also think, and this
31:13
Speaker 2: is the obvious part about all of this, is that
31:16
Speaker 2: the second Red Bull has just been you know, we've
31:18
Speaker 2: said this numerous times since Daniel Riccardo left at the
31:21
Speaker 2: end of twenty eighteen, that thing has just been a
31:23
Speaker 2: bit of a mess. Sergio Peri's was fine because he
31:26
Speaker 2: was collecting points and you know, the Minister of Defense
31:29
Speaker 2: and all that sort of nonsense in twenty twenty one
31:30
Speaker 2: and Abu Dhabi, but it has been a bit of
31:32
Speaker 2: a revolving door and the only commonality is that it
31:35
Speaker 2: has been a mess, and Vastapen has helped to paper
31:39
Speaker 2: over an incredible amount of cracks at that team. They
31:41
Speaker 2: have not had a fully functioning two car line up
31:43
Speaker 2: now for nearly a decade. And you do wonder that
31:47
Speaker 2: of the potentially available people that could shake loose out
31:49
Speaker 2: of other teams, Piastre should be at the top of
31:52
Speaker 2: that list because he's still young, yet experienced and proven
31:55
Speaker 2: in Formula one terms, and I don't think he's reached
31:59
Speaker 2: his peak yet. I think the best is still to
32:01
Speaker 2: come from him. So in terms of what Red Bull
32:03
Speaker 2: might want for a potential for stap and replacement, he's
32:06
Speaker 2: absolutely the guy that you want now personality was quite
32:10
Speaker 2: how Oscar would take to doing seventy seven thousand marketing
32:13
Speaker 2: days per year churning out content for the bigger Red
32:16
Speaker 2: Bull organization. I don't know if that quite works, but sure,
32:19
Speaker 2: maybe that's where Mark Webber can help to negotiate some
32:22
Speaker 2: of these things down. But you mentioned the Weber link before. Yeah,
32:25
Speaker 2: I mean it's undeniable. There is a Weber red Bull link,
32:27
Speaker 2: but it's a very, very different Red Bull these days.
32:30
Speaker 2: And the reason that's worth noting is that for a
32:32
Speaker 2: long time, Red Bull was this incredibly stable organization behind
32:36
Speaker 2: the scenes with the same names in the same places.
32:38
Speaker 2: We've seen over the past two years that the talent
32:41
Speaker 2: train it's gone to other teams, and then key figureheads
32:44
Speaker 2: like Christian Horner and Helmet Marco leaving it's not your
32:48
Speaker 2: father's Red Bull racing moments.
32:50
Speaker 1: He could No, you're right because most of the connections
32:53
Speaker 1: I think I wrote a little bit about this on
32:55
Speaker 1: the Talk Sports webs I think is the need of
32:56
Speaker 1: last week, and when these rumors sort of really started
32:58
Speaker 1: to bubble up, most of the touch points for those
33:01
Speaker 1: connections just aren't there anymore. They've left even Dietrich Matishi's who.
33:06
Speaker 1: I believe Mark Webman you know better than me on
33:07
Speaker 1: this was often doing deals with directly or could talking
33:10
Speaker 1: with his contracts obviously has died. He's no longer there.
33:14
Speaker 1: Christian Horner. I don't know what the status of Mark
33:17
Speaker 1: Weber's relationship with Christian Horner is or was by the
33:19
Speaker 1: end of his tenure there, but he's not there. Helmut
33:21
Speaker 1: Marco is not there. Probably would have been the pro column, really,
33:23
Speaker 1: wouldn't it the helmet Marco's not there, but anyway, his
33:26
Speaker 1: race engineers aren't there either. They've all left all but
33:29
Speaker 1: kinin Pilgrims left, isn't it. But then he briefly had
33:32
Speaker 1: Simon Rennie for a real brief period of the time
33:34
Speaker 1: his last year didn't. He's still in the background somewhere,
33:36
Speaker 1: but that's the only it's almost the only person or
33:39
Speaker 1: high profile person anyway who's probably not making decisions about
33:42
Speaker 1: driver lineups. So to be honest, who's still there to
33:45
Speaker 1: talk to? So the connection is less obvious. Mark Weber
33:48
Speaker 1: is still a red bull athlete. That would count for
33:49
Speaker 1: something in that scenario, but the connection in terms of
33:53
Speaker 1: opening the door is not as obvious.
33:56
Speaker 2: There there is a connection there remembered. Mark obviously worked
33:59
Speaker 2: with long he has quite a lot back in the
34:01
Speaker 2: Minati days with Paul start Art.
34:02
Speaker 1: So that's a great connection so well time.
34:05
Speaker 2: So that's an interesting one because obviously Laurent has come from,
34:09
Speaker 2: you know, working with Paul back in the day and
34:12
Speaker 2: when Mark was there in two thousand and two, and
34:14
Speaker 2: they've they've known each other for quite some time now.
34:16
Speaker 2: So perhaps that's one in the plus column. But now
34:19
Speaker 2: you are right to point out that a lot of
34:20
Speaker 2: the people that Mark worked with over these time there
34:22
Speaker 2: have have gone more recently than anything else because that
34:25
Speaker 2: team has changed so much.
34:26
Speaker 1: We're just acknowledging as well that Oscar Piastre has contracted
34:29
Speaker 1: to McLaren till the end of twenty three eight, so
34:30
Speaker 1: it's got another two years on top of this. I mean,
34:32
Speaker 1: if anyone in McLaren was more like Orlando and Norris
34:35
Speaker 1: has got one year fewer until the end of twenty seven,
34:37
Speaker 1: I would expect that to be renewed sooner rather than later,
34:39
Speaker 1: given McLaren does love an early multi year contract extension.
34:44
Speaker 1: But there is this interesting question, and we moved past
34:46
Speaker 1: a Piastre angle because I think that is I mean,
34:48
Speaker 1: it's a highly speculative at this point, and we'd have
34:51
Speaker 1: to see how this season shakes out. First of all,
34:52
Speaker 1: we're also talking about a McLaren that's probably still on
34:55
Speaker 1: the up versus a Red Bull that's probably teetering on
34:57
Speaker 1: a decline. We don't know how this year is going
34:59
Speaker 1: to go, but that fields more likely at this point
35:01
Speaker 1: anyway that those teams are moving in those directions. But
35:04
Speaker 1: the prospect of maxwistap and leave him putting aside where
35:07
Speaker 1: it's because of the rules, because he's had enough a
35:08
Speaker 1: Formula One. He's also going to leave, as we've said,
35:11
Speaker 1: sooner rather than later. It's not this year, might be
35:12
Speaker 1: next year a year after does put Red Bull in
35:15
Speaker 1: a at least as it stands a funny situation where
35:18
Speaker 1: it doesn't have a high profile spearhead like every other
35:22
Speaker 1: frontlining team in Formula One. You know, at the moment, okay,
35:25
Speaker 1: maybe Isaac Hadga does become that the wobble we saw
35:29
Speaker 1: in Miami it was only one race, is just a
35:32
Speaker 1: wobble and he grows in stature. Who knows, maybe by
35:34
Speaker 1: the end of the year is looking good. Next year whatever.
35:36
Speaker 1: Avid Lindblad too early to tell Liam Lawson's already been
35:39
Speaker 1: there and done that and probably isn't going to go back,
35:42
Speaker 1: and even if he does, it doesn't look like he's
35:44
Speaker 1: that character. With all due respect to him, it does
35:47
Speaker 1: put Red Bull in a funny situation. A team that
35:49
Speaker 1: wants to be the team that obviously, by owning two
35:52
Speaker 1: constructors does promote from its own ranks, doesn't want to
35:55
Speaker 1: have to outsource, but it now does have a habit
35:59
Speaker 1: of outsourcing. That is still an interesting question. The question
36:02
Speaker 1: of who would replace Maxwistappen sooner or later is an
36:05
Speaker 1: important one.
36:07
Speaker 2: What it's done is it has outsourced in the past,
36:09
Speaker 2: but never for its lead driver. When you think about it,
36:12
Speaker 2: so you know, you think when they first came in
36:14
Speaker 2: and they had the old Boys Brigade with David Colthota
36:16
Speaker 2: Mark Webber initially, but you look at every other spearhead
36:19
Speaker 2: they've had since then. Sebastian Vetter was homegrown, Daniel Ricardo
36:22
Speaker 2: was homegrown. Maxistappen was home grown once he came in there.
36:25
Speaker 2: So you know, yes, you've had your Sergio Perez of
36:27
Speaker 2: Liam Lawson's and other people on the periphery. They're going
36:32
Speaker 2: to have to recruit their leader from outside for probably
36:35
Speaker 2: the first time since the team really started that first
36:38
Speaker 2: drive a line up. So that's going to be interesting
36:40
Speaker 2: in just in terms of a philosophical shift. It does
36:43
Speaker 2: beg the question, so then why have you got two
36:44
Speaker 2: Formula one teams if you have more of an advantage
36:48
Speaker 2: to grow that next guy without the pressure in the
36:51
Speaker 2: second team and then bring them through, And you can't
36:52
Speaker 2: even do that properly, So it does make you wonder
36:54
Speaker 2: why they're running a second team at this point. But
36:56
Speaker 2: if they're going to have to look from outside, then
36:58
Speaker 2: you look at who would be at the other teams
37:00
Speaker 2: and who could possibly be available and fill that break
37:03
Speaker 2: that void for them. The list's pretty short, and so
37:06
Speaker 2: it's not surprising that someone like Piastre would be on
37:08
Speaker 2: that list. But I'm not even sure. I mean, could
37:10
Speaker 2: you get five names out of that list right now,
37:12
Speaker 2: whether it's in your EXL document or written in your
37:14
Speaker 2: best head writing, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I could.
37:16
Speaker 1: No, not of not quite over the Piastre caliber. Right,
37:19
Speaker 1: certainly not a happened character that caliber. That's obvious. The
37:23
Speaker 1: name that stands out, and it's one we talked about
37:24
Speaker 1: last year. Obviously would be Color Science. So you'd have
37:27
Speaker 1: to think, if Williams does not recover this year does
37:31
Speaker 1: not look like it's on the trajectory it was last year,
37:32
Speaker 1: would surely be open to a phone call from Red Bull.
37:35
Speaker 1: And you'd have to think as well, with management having
37:38
Speaker 1: changed from the moment that decision was made the last
37:40
Speaker 1: couple of years or two years ago, that phone call
37:43
Speaker 1: would be forthcoming in the way it wasn't when Christian
37:45
Speaker 1: Horn and Helmut Marco were still running the show and
37:46
Speaker 1: the staff and was still a long term red Bull prospect.
37:50
Speaker 1: I think a Science joining Red Bull Racing would be
37:53
Speaker 1: more likely. I'm not saying it's going to happen, or
37:55
Speaker 1: that it's even top of that mythical list. But if
37:58
Speaker 1: you know your piastres are not available, your other front
38:00
Speaker 1: runners in the front running teams are not available, then
38:03
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you go to Science Because you could also
38:05
Speaker 1: sell him Matt as a red Bull prospect he started there.
38:08
Speaker 2: Why not They should have had Carlos Science in there
38:11
Speaker 2: once they moved on from Sergeio Perish and they But
38:12
Speaker 2: we've had this conversation about one hundred and five podcasts ago.
38:16
Speaker 2: But yeah, that was that was the one that was
38:19
Speaker 2: that was so obvious at the time, wasn't it, And
38:21
Speaker 2: that was the way they needed to go at the time,
38:23
Speaker 2: And you'd been a pretty you'd be pretty confident you'd
38:26
Speaker 2: played your cards right if that was the way it
38:28
Speaker 2: shook out. With the way things have gone since, he
38:30
Speaker 2: would be the ideal person who have been in there.
38:32
Speaker 2: It was right at the time, and it's even more
38:34
Speaker 2: right now. But yep, that one's long down the river
38:38
Speaker 2: at this point.
38:39
Speaker 1: Yes, some interesting contemplation to happen at Red Bull Racing
38:41
Speaker 1: over the next few months and certainly the next few years,
38:44
Speaker 1: but that's all the time we have for pit Talk
38:46
Speaker 1: this week. You can subscribe to bittalk wherever you get
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