Latest / The Splitting Atoms Podcast / Ep 8 | Building On Legacy with John MacQuarrie

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Ep 8 | Building On Legacy with John MacQuarrie · The Splitting Atoms Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Once you get to something, I've found this in my career where we could just get to there, that would be so fantastic.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then we get there and you think, that's that's great for about a you know a month, and then you think, okay, but now I need to go further.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: What happens when curiosity is allowed to compound over time?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: For many of us, there's an incredible amount of pressure to have our careers figured out, to know exactly where we're going, what title we're chasing, and what the next step is supposed to be.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: But what if success isn't always the result of a perfectly mapped-out plan?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: What if it comes from staying curious, embracing opportunities, and continuing to move forward?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: In my conversation with John McCorry, president of commercial operations at BWXT, we explore career shape not by chasing titles, but by a willingness to learn, grow, and say yes to new opportunities.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: From his early years growing up in Barrie to discovering the nuclear industry through a chance conversation to helping shape the future of one of the most influential organizations within our sector, John's story is a reminder that some of the most meaningful careers are built one opportunity at a time.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Join me now as I split atoms with John McCorry.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: John, welcome to the Splitting Atoms Podcast Studio.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to have you here, and I know we have a lot to cover today, so I want to jump right in.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: But before we do, for those listening who may not uh have full clarity on BWXT, could you give us a high-level, 60-second rundown of your organization as well as your role within it?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh great to be here, Caitlin.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for that.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: So BWXT is a nuclear technology company.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can think of it as uh nuclear power, nuclear medicine, nuclear propulsion, and um and some advanced reactor technology for things like micro-reactors and reactors in space, you know, to power propulsion or to power uh power systems on the moon.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a technology company that's entirely focused on nuclear.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And your role there?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the president of the commercial operation division.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So we operate in two divisions, uh government and commercial, and so I lead uh anything that is uh not really focused as the government as a customer.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you're sitting here today in the studio with me as president of uh commercial operations for BWXT.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want to take us back.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go to the version of John that grew up in Barrie.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: What was that like?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Paint a picture for me of growing up there.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Were you into sports, uh academics, what was that like?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: What was your relationship with your family?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Were you part of a tight-knit uh family group?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Walk me back through that version of yourself.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was great to grow up in Barrie.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was pretty fortunate.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a lot of family in the area, um, on especially on my mother's side, like tremendous number of family.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that was always good, right?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: We did a lot of family things.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was always, I would say, academically oriented, but uh love sports.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: So played a lot of sports in high school, particularly basketball.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: We were you know really, really uh focused on that.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And our our team did really well actually uh at the high school level.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so that was uh uh just a great place to be.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: You could go skiing in the winter and be in the lake in the summer, and uh it just felt like a place where you know you had access to a lot of good things.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Not quite a big city like Toronto, but but not that far away from that.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I loved it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So now basketball, you're still a big fan today?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: I am, yeah, yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Who who do you think's gonna there's quite the game.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Was it last week the next uh big comeback?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think the Knicks might win.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's very close though, right?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So but yeah, it'd be great to see the Knicks win, actually.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's sad for me.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: The only reason I know that is because, of course, there was a certain singer-songwriter who was sitting uh on the sidelines with her custom t-shirts and and her friends with that of course uh I'm quite a fan of Miss Swift, so it blew up my Instagram feed.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I knew there was the comeback and the the whole story of it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I hate to say.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Formula One girl, so I pick my sport and I know that sport really well, and then I I keep my focus there.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's too funny.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see if the next uh if they pull it off.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: When's the next game now?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think it's uh tomorrow.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Tomorrow night?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And is that the is this the final now?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are we in?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I can't remember what uh what game this is now.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think they've got uh that was game five, I think, last night.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see how that all ends up.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you've talked to me before about the influence that your parents had on your academia.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Your your father um was a teacher, I believe.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then your mother, she always instilled the importance of education and of continuing to learn and remaining curious in those ways when it comes to learning and development.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me a little bit about their influence as you were growing up on instilling in you the importance of that focus.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and really, was that something your your academia did it always follow you through?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Were there moments where it became stronger or it really clicked with you the significance of doing well in school and honing in on that skill?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my uh both my parents were really academically focused, although you know neither one of them went as far as they would have liked.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my mother just um finished high school and that was it.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: My father uh went to college, Ryerson, at the time.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, was always interested in going further, but didn't.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so I became a um a technician, worked for IBM, and then became a high school teacher in Barrie.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but always encouraged myself, my brother, to really think about uh you know how we would you know develop a career, right, that would be really rewarding.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he always felt that a technical career and an engineering career would be a great career.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think I was pretty influenced by that, my brother to some extent too.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're both technical in what we do for a living.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, our mother was super supportive, even though you didn't go as far in school, would always kind of encourage us and help us.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I spent a lot of time studying.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: I I wasn't I didn't need a lot of motivation, I found it interesting anyway, and and uh and I think being competitive by nature um in in things like sport, but that that translates for me anyway into academia where you know I wanted to do well, you know, it was just uh I guess a funnel fundamental aspect of my nature.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still like that in business.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to win um for the company, right?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so so I think that's you know what drove us.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um it was you know supportive environment, right, where they'd you know encourage us, but there wasn't um it wasn't sort of a negative kind of encouragement.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was always just a positive encouragement for us to do as well as we could.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: But no, I didn't feel like there was a consequence if we chose not to study hard or not not to go further in school.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: But um both both my brother and I went and got into advanced degrees even after our undergrad.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell And when you think of yourself today and and as a leader, are there skill sets that you can, or maybe personal attributes might be the best word as you were developing in those formative years, that you look back today that you can really see were instilled right from the get-go?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Yeah, I think there's a sense of determination, right, to just keep trying, right?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Even though maybe things didn't go well or you know, you'd have a setback.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh that was instilled in me at a pretty early age.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And because yeah, it's tough, right?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like academic uh work is tough, and then getting into careers and business, you have setbacks, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: But just to not let it knock you down too much, right?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: There was there's always uh yeah, well, there's always tomorrow, and there's something else you can try and do, and uh you've got lots of opportunity.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've always felt that way, right?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that's an optimism that I felt from through my childhood that I've carried through in my life.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell And were you encouraged by your parents?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like just is something that you had said there about there's always a different opportunity and there's always kind of a tomorrow mindset.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: So was this sense of curiosity and inquisitiveness that I'm sure was somewhat naturally uh born in you, was that nurtured by your parents from an early age to keep that spirit of ask new questions, try new things, you know, don't let the fear of maybe something not being comfortable to you stop you from having it become comfortable to you?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say to some extent from my parents.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I yeah, I just think you both myself and my brother felt like, you know, it's it's interesting to try new things, right?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I don't know entirely where that came from, quite frankly, but um but certainly it was nurtured, right?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like we we were encouraged to to try things and and and there was no consequence, as I said, if we failed, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe that was part of it.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, both of us have really, I would say, you know, gone in in different but really interesting directions.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, certainly taken risks in our career.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: My brother runs his own company, right?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's pretty big risk of of doing that, and as you would know.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I've certainly taken risks in my career, right?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we just I don't know, we felt comfortable by that.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I don't know that there was a but sort of a play in in that way, but it it just sort of unfolded that way.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And part of that was I guess that attitude of we'll just keep trying.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned that your father did not go as far in his education as he wanted to.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: He had always um thought he wished he had gone through engineering, correct?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And of course you went through.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So was that directly related, your decision to uh the go through and become an engineer?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that was influenced directly by his desire?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Did you live out his dream a little bit?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or how did that decision come to be?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I did probably, right, when I look back on it, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: He he you clearly he talked about it with such um appeal, right?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that that that would have been great for him and and that he would hope that we would think about that, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and so yeah, I guess it I probably maybe subconsciously drove in that direction.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: And he was very proud of uh of what I did, right?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And just just the fact that you know became an engineer, let alone what's happened after that.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, there was certainly a strong sense that you know he would he would like that.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, you want to please your parents uh typically, and so you know, maybe that's what drove me.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell I think it it's as well.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: You look at at someone like yourself who is a bit of a problem solver, getting to solutions, um like I said, that inquisitive kind of nature, engineering isn't a far stretch because you really are the world's problem solvers.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say to people, one of the most trusted uh careers or occupations in the world to meet, without people even thinking about it.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: We just unknowingly or or maybe um without really giving it too much thought, we trust engineers every day and the buildings we're in and the you know overpasses we drive through.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's the most trusted because we just know you guys are are wired to be problem solvers and and to double check and triple check and really make sure you've got it right.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So your father seeing so much of your career take place and take shape and where you are today and the impact that you have, not only uh within the organization and the sector, but really the leadership influence that you you do have as you've moved through.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: That must have been a pretty proud feeling for him to see he wished he had become an engineer and then to see the impact you're having as an engineer and where it's taken you.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think his you know, if it was a bit of his influence, I think it worked out pretty well.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, um so as I said, he passed away recently.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've been going through his his files and his stuff, right?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And he had all these um, you know, moments that he'd captured and kept in his file and things like, you know, when you when you get a promotion, sometimes it gets announced.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I've been fortunate to be in in the news when we have big contract announcements and stuff.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And he he clipped all that and kept all that in these files, right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I I didn't know he did that actually, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um and I did get him to come and visit uh you know some of our facilities because he just super interested and and you know you could tell just him walking through that how uh how proud he was and how happy he was, and he'd talk about that endlessly.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure his friends were sick of it, but but you know, he yeah, he was super proud, right?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and and he never stopped saying that regularly, right?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Which is you know is a pretty good thing, you know, to hear that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: You think of these very human, sincere moments uh it's easy in in our days, we get caught up in the whirlwind, but sometimes those little moments of finding those clippings and of seeing the appreciation that someone who we we dearly love has for what we've accomplished reminds us what the real story is.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: What are we really doing here and and how are we impacting and how much love is around us?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said, on our worst days in business, it's such a great reminder, whether it's because we've lost someone or because we we get a glimpse into how proud someone is of us or what that feeling is like.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It reminds us that the sky's not falling on our head, even if we think it is, because we have all of these amazing things around us.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that must have been a very special and I'm sure an emotional moment to find those.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: It was, yeah, it was quite uh emotional.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um my father was always uh a stabilizing kind of influence.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'd talk to him regularly and and inevitably talk about work.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's always things that are problematic that I'm trying to solve, and but he'd always, you know, just say, Yeah, but you know, like think of all the other things, right?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he'd kind of you know draw me back into a bigger picture and a frame of reference that maybe you know I'd lost track of and and lost focus on.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so he was able to do that, right?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because from his perspective, like, well look at all the great things have already happened, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know that's tough, sounds tough, but but think of all the other things, right?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and um my mother was always like that too, actually, right?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like very uh sort of you know, count your good fortune kind of person, right, in in those moments.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I try to think of those things because it's a little harder now.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: I can't call them anymore, and and I don't have my mother to say that, but you know, I try to remember those things.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it is helpful, right?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: It is helpful to get that bigger frame of reference and think, yeah, things are pretty good actually.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're we're lucky.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny, no one can put you in your place quite as quick as your parents, but no one else can uh pump your tires quite like your parents and and remind you, yeah, you know what, I'm I'm doing okay.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's absolutely true.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because they've seen you know they know.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: They know and they know all about us.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and yeah, they're biased, obviously.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: But they um but they're also uh I think they are also seeing it uh in a big picture way that yeah, you can't help but think, well, yeah, I guess that that's true, and I feel good about that when they're when they're problematic.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: The reframe.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And now if if your dad's influence and and your parents' influence r led you into uh engineering, how did nuclear uh come into the picture?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because you you didn't grow up thinking I'm gonna go into the nuclear sector, much like many of us did not grow up thinking, well, nuclear is it for me.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: How did nuclear first appear in your life?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell So I was at school at the University of Toronto and I was doing some graduate work in a master's program, and I was working with a colleague that um you know I had become friends with, and and he was um looking for a job and got a job at Atomic Energy of Canada.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um and he said, Hey, they're hiring, I know you're graduating soon, you really should apply, they need engineers, and so I did.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and it's helpful, right, to have somebody that's already in an organization that uh makes a reference for you.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got an interview and I got a job, and that's how I got into it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you're right, I hadn't thought about nuclear that much.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was aware of it and I knew that it was a a great industry, a large industry, but at that time I had no idea what I was gonna do for a living.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And when you entered into it, what was it about the sector that uh really grabbed your attention and and made you think this is a place that I could see my career in for a long time?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or was it like that?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Were there things right away where you thought uh I want to stay here, I want to build here in nuclear?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think there was, yeah.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like so that my first boss was um even from the interview, sort of talking about the industry and and the importance of the industry in Canada, right?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: And how at that time that company was a crown corporation, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: So um and was supported by the government of Canada, and it had done something remarkable, really.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: When you think about the world, there's not very many countries in the world that have um nuclear technology for power generation, right?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you look at what Canada had accomplished, it is remarkable, right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he compared it to other things that Canada had done.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'm proud Canadian, and you know, I felt a lot of pride to be a part of that, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Even a small part of that.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so that that made me think about it.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know that I thought I want to be here forever at you know, young person and wasn't sure what I was gonna do, but it was certainly was compelling for me.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: What were the other things that he mentioned with Canada?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can't like imagine Timbitz, hockey, maple syrup.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: We we've got some good uh mustard seeds out of Saskatchewan.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: He did not mention those great things.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: He he was um you know he's an engineer, right?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: So he was talking about you know great industrial things.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: We've got amazing aerospace industry, right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: And talking about the origins of the uh you know the aircraft programs that we've had, right?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And and but comparing that to this and saying here's another great sort of platform that Canadians can be proud of, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I and it has persisted and grown since that day, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so so you know that was that was the kind of stuff that he was really comparing to that that for an engineer was very appealing, you know.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it is incredible when we really think about the influence and the impact that Canada has had and continues to have, and it doesn't look like it's gonna stop anytime in the future.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think my hope is that more Canadians become aware and and proud of what our energy sector and the nuclear um sector is really contributing out into the world because it like you said, there's there's a lot behind us, but I think there's a lot ahead of us as well.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's fun.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then you eventually made your way to Babcock Babcock and Wilcox at the time.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: It it's now in a new iteration.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and you have been there for nearly three decades now.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're in your 29th year with the year.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I am.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a bit of a rarity these days.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: We see a lot of people uh moving and making lateral moves or making um moves to new companies.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so tell me about that transition and and when you moved over.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I was at ACL for a few years and I I enjoyed it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was really interesting.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I uh was doing sort of more, you know, sort of theoretical engineering design work, and I felt like I wanted um something different, like I wanted to be part of uh more of an industrial manufacturing kind of environment.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And at the time, Babcock and Wilcox was hiring uh a lot of good things going on for the company.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went and applied and I got I got a job and immediately um so still in the nuclear industry, but um immediately in working in the power plants, I was in a a service group there, and it was fantastic, right?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because now um rather than being sort of in an office environment, you know, behind a computer, I was out in the field working with all kinds of interesting people, really skilled people, and and doing things where I felt a real sense of accomplishment, where we go and modify the plant or change something or solve a problem that that owner uh needed fixed.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I super enjoyed that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um it was it was a lot of travel, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, field surface kind of environment where you're deployed to a plant and it could be for months at a time, and it was.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so so I enjoyed that, but you know, it was a little too much on the road and uh hard for my you know, for my fiance at the time.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, did you have someone at home that was you know when you're coming back?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I didn't didn't like it that much.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I did after uh a year or so, I I said I can't do this much longer.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I I did find something else and left the industry for for a couple of years, almost three years, um, and and did some interesting things, but um but I was always staying in touch with the folks at Bobcock and Wilcox.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And when I decided, you know, I kind of would like to return to that, um, they said, well, we've got you know some some got a job for you, what do you want to do?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I had gotten really interested in the commercial aspects of business and so marketing and sales and and uh contracts and and that sort of thing.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so they they pulled me back in as a sales engineer uh into the company and and uh I just I loved that, right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: I it's still very technical, but just the idea of making deals and trying to figure out how to sell something was I found fascinating.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's totally honestly very uncomfortable for I think many engineers because it's you know it's not structured the way engineering tends to be very structured.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I found that quite uh it was challenging, quite frankly, but I enjoyed it.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because you talk about early in your career how you took a little hiatus from the company because of all the travel.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: But just as we got in studio today, we were talking about how much you still continue to travel.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: So is the the fiance now the wife, what are her thoughts today now on we were just talking about you've been in a few spots in the States this week already.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're filming this on a Friday, and I feel like your week uh has been on the road mostly.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So what are the thoughts today?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a fair bit of that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, but it's not uh it's it's typically a few days, you know, it's not where I'm gone for weeks or months at a time.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: So uh so yeah, we've managed that.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: My my uh wife was able to really um sort of not have her working outside the home as much.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: She works as a librarian, but but not um as much during the time when our kids were young, and so and now kids are adults and that they do their own thing.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of manage it, it's okay, you know.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I travel a fair bit, but it's it's it's um during the week and it it's it's okay.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've got we've both got our own things that we do.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: She's she's occasionally says you really should think about retirement, but I have no interest in that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, good for you.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we make it work, you know.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so as we look back to your career and as it uh it it progressed and you moved through, because obviously you started at one point, but you're now in one of the top leadership roles.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: What did that progression look like?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: How did you move through the Company and and what kind of brought you to the position that you're at today and what did that look and feel like as you went along?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it just it just happened sort of very naturally where um positions would come open in sort of higher management and the company would approach me, you know, and say, Hey, would you like this job?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I I didn't give it a lot of thought other than I thought, yeah, that sounds interesting, you know, it sounds challenging, sounds like something I'd like to do and that I think I could do.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I I think I always questioned whether uh it was the right move because you know, more responsibility and how's that gonna go?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: And um but it you know, it worked out generally, right?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: And and so uh that's how it happened.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and and every few years that would happen, and and then you know, it sort of has continued to happen.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Was it your ambition to be end up where you are today, essentially?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: When you entered into your career, did you have that kind of thought process of one day I want to, you know, kind of be at the top?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or did you just go in thinking I'm gonna do my job really, really well right now and be interested in it?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then things kind of presented and and you started progressing up.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell You know, I never I think I never once thought about being in leadership or management of any kind until an opportunity presented itself, right?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think I just thought of myself as an engineer and I'll do an interesting job and um and and that's great, that's good enough, right?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um but but I, you know, always motivated and always tried to work hard for the company, and I I guess that um skill set you know transitioned into what the company thought was good management skill set.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they've given me a tremendous amount of training to learn how to be a better manager.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um and but yeah, I never once thought uh it's important to me to progress.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was important when I look back in hindsight in terms of I l I like the challenge of it and I I like what's happened, but I never thought it would happen.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, I didn't think I was capable of it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell I think there's there's it's this thought maybe that people who are in levels of leadership and at you know the top of companies, they started with that ambition all the time.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And some people most certainly did.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of people do, where they see where they want to go, they see their path, and they chase it down.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: But that was not the circumstance for you.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: It seems to me like you just had this willingness to number one, uh not really worry about what was within the scope of your job.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: If someone asked you, do you want to try something, do you want to do something, you said yeah, let's let's give that a go.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you had a willingness when an opportunity uh opportunity came to you to step into it even though you didn't necessarily always know where it was going to lead to.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't the end game that you were after.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was the journey as you were going through it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was the experience of of trying something more challenging and interesting and seeing, hey, can I do that?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and I guess some optimism that I I expected I probably could, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but certainly uncertainty about whether it would go well.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess I never really thought of myself as you know, sort of a natural leader, right?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Where I'd you know be in a room and and sort of um try to lead, you know, that group of people in the room with me.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: I just never thought of myself that way.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: But but I think is um as I work through my career and get involved in these discussions about uh things that you know start to move towards leadership, where it start talking about strategy and what should we do and where should we go.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess fundamentally leadership, at least as I see it, is you know, you're kind of trying to set a direction.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're trying to say, hey, we should really go do this, right?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and it is about change and which is not comfortable, quite frankly, right?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and and and many things that I've said we should go do, probably we shouldn't have, right?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's but you so you put it out there and you get sometimes negative feedback, and so so it is a little uncomfortable.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it but I think it's fundamentally I'm interested in I guess I am interested in change, right?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Fundamentally, and if I think about management and ultimately leadership, if the company it has no interest in changing, which of course no company has interest in that, then you don't need leaders, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: But you just do the same thing every day.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: But but I think leadership is about change, and I'm I'm not very I don't enjoy the status quo very much.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: I like I like to see things progress.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting because it's ironic maybe, for someone who really in a good way, you didn't have a lot of s strategic thinking in your career of like point A, point B, tactic and and tactically, how do I get there?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: You now you possess, and I'm sure you have throughout your career, are a strategic thinker.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you still are someone who can see the big picture and then look at the step by step.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's I think a bit ironic that that really wasn't the case.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't overlay that over your own career, but it naturally led you to a place where that skill set has become more and more and more valuable, whether it's talking about change management or behavioral management during those changes, seeing uh shifts in markets and pivoting where needed.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think probably your lack of laying the roadmap out for yourself, continue to develop that skill even more so because you didn't have that plan and you weren't stuck to anything, you acquired all of these other skills simply by saying yes and kind of following the path that was laid out for you.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think it's quite ironic that all of the skill sets, like the strategic thinking and that critical thinking that are required to excel in a job is like yours, you didn't really apply it to your game plan for your own career.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell No, you know, like I I think I just uh was attracted to it, right?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then so then naturally to be able to explore that, you have to move in that direction, right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: And and despite what is actually honestly, like when I was uh younger, I didn't like I still don't want to be the center of attention necessarily, but but in order to do things that I find interesting, you know, I have to do that, right?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so that then find ways to do it that at least I can be comfortable with, you know, to a certain extent.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: But but it's you know, that sort of concern about um not wanting to do certain things is overwhelmed by the interest in in wanting to see how we can progress and if we can go uh do something different and be good at it.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that is just uh is a strong driving force for me.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it allows me to sort of set aside other things that are maybe aren't natural for me.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about not wanting to be the center of interest as we're we have lighting, three cameras on us, the whole kit and caboodle.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: But what I find an interesting thought there with what you just said is do you find sometimes in our world, and I don't know what it is, so I won't try to pretend what it is, but we have this concept that if we really love something and it's our passion, we'll like all the parts of it.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just not true.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Whether even in the relationship with the person we love more than anything in the world or parenting or our careers or aspects of our job, as you've said, in order to do the things we love, sometimes we have to do the things that we don't love that just naturally come with that.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm sure it's not your favorite thing in the world to sit in front of all these cameras and these lights and and have someone like me pestering you with all these little questions.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's doing this part allows you to do the other parts.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's maybe a reality.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're losing a little bit sometimes in our world.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: We see perfect pictures online and we think, well, that's how it's supposed to be.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, maybe it's toxic or not for us.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: But really, there's there's always the up and the down with everything.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell There is.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's a balance, I think, right?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, there's no way to do the things that at least that I want to do without these other things that I feel less I would say less comfortable about it.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is an environment that I feel super comfortable in, but but it's also um yeah, it's part of of leadership, right?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's some these are things I know that are important to do, right?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just you know I do my best at it, and some things I'm probably not as good at, but but I try to just make sure that it is all moving in the right direction as best I can, right?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: And and I I do try to, even if I'm not good at it, I try to do, you know, to to improve myself, to try to lift all of that.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: But there's definitely a uh a balancing kind of thing there where the things that I'm super interested in just sort of pull everything else along behind.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think as long as the cup is being filled more than it's being poured out in terms of what we we love about our life, different aspects, and what we don't.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love running the business.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was talking to um a friend in the industry the other day, and I'm I'm heading on personal vacation in a couple weeks, I guess, here.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Oh, that's so nice to have the flexibility of kind of doing what you want when you want.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, there's there's no going on vacation without the laptop.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's no the team can call me at any time.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like you said, it's that balance of, yeah, I can go decide to work from Curaçao for a week and and be on the beach and snorkel maybe through the day or go golfing, you know, from time to time on a Wednesday afternoon.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm also laying in bed at night at 2 a.m.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: thinking about cash flow and payroll and what about this?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I got to get that done for that client.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I love a lot of what I do.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: But like any job, it comes with the parts where you think, ah, I wish I could leave that at the door.
• 31:21
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Which I think at a certain point in the career is impossible, right?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's just no way to separate yourself from it.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's even harder now, right?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're we're so interactive.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, even since the pandemic, I'd say we're even more interactive, where there's so much that is um, you know, video and and virtual driven, and you know, that can be done from anywhere.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so people I think um take advantage of that, of course, as they as they should and would.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and the days get longer because people are, you know, a lot of people are maybe working from home or whatever.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: So let's start at you know 7:30 and why don't we have a meeting at you know at 7 at night because it's important and something's got to get done.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, it's it's I think almost impossible to turn it off.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so traditional vacation, maybe like I used to have 20 years ago, just doesn't exist for me.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I I also my boss says, you know, really you have to learn how to integrate those things together, right?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: And have personal time, but also do your job.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and and once you get comfortable doing that, then it doesn't feel so bad.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't you don't feel like I'm not getting a break.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think he's actually right about that, right?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, there is no way to do it uh where you just shut yourself off unless you've got some sort of a delegate that you can just scale.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Most of us don't have that luxury, right?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: I and so in fact, very few do, I think.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that is um something that I just have kind of learned to do.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm okay with it.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I do get vacation time, but yeah, I'm still working a little bit every day.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think I asked you one time selfishly, I said, do you have any have you have you learned the skill or the way to turn it off and leave it at the end of the day and say, okay, well, that's done, and now I'm fully in this mode.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: And very disappointingly, I think you said, no, I haven't.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, shoot.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: I do not have that skill.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I cannot turn it off or shut up.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, I can, you know, for a few hours.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not thinking about work.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, but but I then gravitate back to it.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: And uh for me, it's not a it's not a negative thing, right?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: I like I I do like to solve problems, and typically a lot of things I'm thinking about, you could you could frame in the context of a problem.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds negative.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not it's not meant to be negative.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh there's an objective, right?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of an objective-oriented kind of person and it's something that I I want us to do, right?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And trying to solve that is fascinating.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: And in a way, it's like for me, it's become a hobby or a sport that I I don't feel um it's negative.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's positive for me, right?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and it keeps me going.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, when people say, I can't believe people say this, I can't believe I'm at this point in my life where you think about retirement, it's kind of I don't want that question because I don't know that.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: But it, you know, I am I'm at the point where I could be thinking about that, I guess.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and I don't want to think about that because I enjoy what I do and I find it interesting.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I work a lot of hours, but I'm not complaining about that because it's it's uh it drives me.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: I find it really fascinating.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell When I hear people say, you know, find what you're passionate about, that's what it's about, is even when it's living on your brain and you're doing something else, but you're almost addicted to it.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: But you enjoy it.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always easy, it's not always, you know, lacking stress or frustrations, but you just can't get away from it.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's what it is for me.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm writing campaigns in my head.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'll be in the middle of a personal conversation.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be like, oh, you know what?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: This would be great for this.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is finding your passion, not what makes you happy every day, and you know, you could do all the time with a smile on your face.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's what in those hard moments when it's not enjoyable, can you just not put down?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Yeah, I think it's unrealistic to think of a passionate career as something that uh has every day is an easy day and a fun day.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's I don't believe that's possible.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I think you can have so you have ups and downs, and uh but but I think the the downs are in a in a way what makes it uh passion because you're trying to overcome those.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: You're trying to not have many of those, right?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so just thinking through that and working through that and working with other people to try to solve these things, um, which is really a sort of a fascinating um way to operate, right, when you're bouncing ideas off each other and you know, have people call me early in the morning at late at night saying, I just thought of something we should try this, and or you're in a meeting and you get kind of a pretty dynamic um discussion going, which is fascinating.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: It is it's really enthralling, right?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: But without that problem uh to solve, you wouldn't have that, right?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: So you I think they they go together, right?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: You you have to have challenge to then feel um success and victory and you know good.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I just see it that way.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I don't actually feel like I need to get away from it.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like every now and then I get tired, I need a break, and and there's plenty of stress, but it's manageable, right?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: It it's just it it's again, it's that balance of without that, um, it probably wouldn't be the same or as good, you know, because you need you need I need challenge to try to overcome.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like no, no rain, no rainbow.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the you brought up another thing that to me has been become more and more important as my business scales and grows, the people around you.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Jesse, who is my right-hand woman, she's my business operations um leader.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I joke with her all of the time, her and her husband, that 50% of her job is probably just a little bit of a therapist for me, right?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because in building the business, it's very isolating, it can be very lonely.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so having someone that I can call and say, you know what, I'm really struggling with this part of it, or I'm not sure how to handle this.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: What how should we do that?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And having not only a sounding board, but someone that you can really turn to to say, here's what's living in my head that I just can't quite work out or that I'm struggling with, or even on a personal level, I'm just not at 100% today.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm at like 60% today of what I can bring to the table.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Having those people that are with you in that way, to solve the problems, to support you in solving them, or just to say it's okay, you don't have it all figured out, and then to celebrate the wins and the ups and the highs.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a very a key point that you mentioned there, that you have people that call and say, Hey, I just had this idea because it's infectious to have that culture around.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and I want to circle back very briefly.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Again, looking at your career and how you didn't start with the end game insight.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: In today's world where I think of social media, where we see a lot of perfect images online and the the influencer influence, I feel we're becoming a society that is obsessed with the final destination, with the end product, with getting where we want to go and not getting there fast enough being a frustration.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: How important is it to you that we kind of s take a step back from that at times and remember number one, is that not feasible?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: We we can't just jump from A to B, but also there's a lot of joy and discovery that can be had from not worrying about the end game before it's time.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um I mean I think it's it is important to sort of um every now and then remind ourselves or our team, our organization that, you know, hey, we we're doing really well, we've done really well, and yeah, we want to get, you know, a certain um set of outcomes that we're trying to go after, but those are hard, right?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're really challenging, and we may not get all of them.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and we should set challenging stretch goals for ourselves and and really try to get there.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, failure to achieve that is not failure of the company or failure of us as individuals.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's um because you get somewhere, you get partway there, you get it's it's the it's the effort to go through that to get there.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I can I can look at at the company I work for, right, which has been operating for over 180 years in this country, and there have been many people in my job, and they've gone through and they've taken it to a certain point.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and then somebody like me comes along and takes it to the next point, and there'll be somebody after me that does that, right?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think seeing, you know, I see myself as part of that continuum, and when I leave someday, I want to make sure that it's ready for that next, you know, set of leaders and whoever, you know, takes my job, that they can take it further.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I I hope, you know, that they take it and make it even better.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the way to think about it.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: So there isn't, you know, there isn't really, I think, just a destination there.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's it just keeps once you get to something, I've I've found this in my career where I thought if we could just get to there, that would be so fantastic.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then we get there and you think, yeah, okay, that's that's great for about a you know, a month, and then you think, okay, but now I need to go further.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so it never peak to another peak, right?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and in fact, these days I think those those peaks come even faster, right?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so so there is no you know, finish line to steal a famous um you know, sort of uh brand line from somebody.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: But that's true.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: There isn't, right?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think one has to keep that in mind, right?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: That you just gotta keep progressing.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and that's what you know, that's what is is expected of people in leadership, and we keep working on that.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and when we don't, for some reason it it's tough.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it, you know, then you you know work to overcome that.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: But but that's the goal.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Just keep progressing.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, it's not always happy times either.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: You have led through some very difficult times, some hard times that have stayed with you.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Walk me through that part of leadership just briefly, when you're going through something like a downturn or um workforce is being let go because of market um impacts.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you balance that?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: How do you keep your head up during those times?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, those are tough times, right?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: When you're in leadership, those are those are the toughest times, in my opinion, right?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're fortunate right now, we're in a place where we're growing and we're adding people, and it's pretty exciting.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, we've seen markets where there just wasn't much demand for what we do.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and and you know, some of it was probably self-inflicted where we weren't as as competitive and weren't in the right place.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we have competitors, we have to figure that out.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And and so you know, you have to kind of take some tough medicine and step back and say, okay, how do we restructure?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that's a that is a very difficult thing to go through for everybody in the company.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's certainly difficult for people that are asked to leave the company.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's you know, really tough.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: But but the people that are doing that asking restructuring, it's hard on them too.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: And we we've gone through that.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: We've had we've had some times when the the industry was just at a total low and we had to restructure, we had to lay off a lot of people, we had to um you you know s take some assets out of the business and just get you know sort of lean and competitive and get ready for the next thing.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what gets what get me through that is the next thing, right?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: Is that you know, okay, we'll we'll go through this, but you can see something coming in the future that is is gonna be good, it's gonna a return to what it was before.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, we'll hire again and we'll grow and we'll do great things.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so as long as I kept my you know my thinking about that, it gave me energy to get through what we were going through.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: And d do you find that it's very easy in those moments to carry the weight of someone being let go, of knowing, in the literal sense, someone no longer has a paycheck coming because their job is gone and you're one of the leadership members.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: My question is do you carry the same weight for the positive days?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like do you check in with the HR at the end of the day and say, how many people did we give a new paycheck to today?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because those moments matter just as much.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it's very easy for leaders to carry the weight of the bad days, but forget those small wins.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Big wins are easy.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: We all celebrate the big wins, but every day people's lives are also being made better.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: And do we check in and do we carry that home with us the same way as we do the days where we're not getting great feedback because there are not great things happening?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I certainly don't do that enough, right?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think I've ever called HR and say how many people do we are today.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: But um you certainly am a little bit of a lot of people.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: Do it today.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: And no, I'm aware of it, and I do feel good about that.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you when I think about the size of the organization today versus what it was even 10 years ago, I certainly feel good about that.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and um but I find that it's like many positive things uh in in business and I think maybe in life, we tend to feel good for a shorter period of time, but then the struggle is back, right?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and that that absorbs us, right, to figure out how do we do that.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Overcome the struggle, right?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because honestly, if you if you spend too much time thinking about the positive, you cannot you can avoid thinking about things that you really should be thinking about, right?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you can get complacent.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can stop progressing.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's just natural that you think about the tougher stuff more.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it does weigh on you, right?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so that that is where the stress and the some of those tough sleepless nights come from, is you know, those those tough things that you're facing, right?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's absolutely when somebody loses their job, it weighs on me, right?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, I know these people, right, and I know what they're they're counting on.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's a deal, right, in a way, between leadership and non-leaders in a company is that, you know, hey, I'm gonna do my job as a non-leader, I'm gonna do what you ask me to do.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm counting on you to make sure there's mere work for me to do.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if there isn't, you know, it's hard not to have that weigh on you, at least for me.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell It's so true that maybe sometimes the positive things don't get the attention that they deserve because they need no action item.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: When when things are going well, it's because you're already doing the things that are leading you to that opportunity.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: But if things are off the rails, now you've got to put the train back on the rails.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to give weight to that.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think also a lot of attributes that make a great leader, like accountability, um, empathy, some of these things also make it challenging to be a leader because you are a good person that that has those attributes that make you a great leader.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: But it means things weigh on you because you actually think, you care, and and you don't like what is being done.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit of a double-edged sword.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: The things that sometimes make us great can also um make things challenging for us and make make it harder.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, ignorance is bliss sometimes, something like that.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is a double-edged sword.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think as long as there's more good days than tough days, then you know it's manageable, right?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: But it can feel like when you're going through something like we went through where we had sort of prolonged uh uh lack of demand and you know laying off people, that's you know, super tough.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's not that common, right?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Ufortunately, you know, most uh most businesses that are long-lived don't you know don't experience that for too long.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: But it is tough when you go through it.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a natural um you're talking about you know recognizing positive versus thinking about the the challenges.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's a natural uh cycle in business where there's all businesses have an owner.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: In our case, you know, it's um it's a public company, right?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: So the public owns the company.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and there's a quarterly cycle, and you know, you you you would strive for certain results in each quarter.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and if you get that, you know, there's a kind of a okay, thank you, that's great, but for you know, about five minutes.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then now there's the next quarter, right?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and so and we've set the bar a little higher and higher and higher.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so and I think you know, whether you're public or or you're just you're working for you know private owners, that is the nature of business, private business leadership.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you're your own sole proprietor, right, you've you've got you're you're typically driving for the next thing, right?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so that just automatically tips the scales away from spending a lot of time thinking about, well, I just got that done.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's great.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to find out, I gotta figure out the next thing, and it's it's even more challenging.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: I tried the end of every one of my days to at least find something good.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesse and I will text back and forth, like, here are three really positive things that happen today, because a lot of our calls are this fire, this fire, this fire.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and now don't forget, I probably have the most demanding of a board to report to, because mine are my three cats who there's never enough churros, you know.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's always more for next quarter that could be done.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: They're very demanding.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: Very so demanding, you know, and they have claws, Josh.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um two of them have claws.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so I want to I want to pick up on something that you very briefly referenced there, and that is the history behind the company, BWXT.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I had in my notes that the company in in different forms had started in 1867, but you corrected me this morning and you had said it was 1844.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: So a long-standing tradition here.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know you have employees who are multi-generational, which has to mean so much.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: What does it it how does it sit with you as a leader that you are carrying that legacy that has been built before you and now you're also building it for the generations to come?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Especially you and I were sitting at this table as as history nerds, self-declared history nerds.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: We understand the significance of that history and what it means and the excitement that comes with that, but also the responsibility that maybe comes with being at the helm now with your fellow leaders and building it for the future.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you think about that or what are your thoughts there?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Oh, I do.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I so the company has operated uh, you know, since 1844 as you know a small foundry and it has just grown and it became it grew with the industrial revolution of this country, of the world, right?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and at one time was a pretty large industrial player, and you know, still is to some extent, but you know, that was before automotive and aircraft and things.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and yeah, so as I you know step into the shoes of of leading it, um, at least my part of it, I you know, I feel that the weight of that, right?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: That you wanna you wanna keep it going, right?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: You want to this what I think is an august kind of company, that it will continue to do well and grow.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and leadership is fully accountable for that, right?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and so yeah, it drives me to want to make sure that that's what we do, and I I feel the weight of that.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact as a history major, I always think it's it's cool and it does something in my mind thinking of you know the American Civil War or the Gilded Age.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people, there's a hit TV show, you know, the Gilded Age, to know that your company was there, living through those moments.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why, but it's such a cool feeling for me.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing that, because it's it's rare at this day and age.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're so obsessed sometimes with the new and this the sparkly and shiny things, which of course BWXT has a lot of shiny and sparkly things happening now and into its future, but there is something so intriguing to me or just fantastic about the fact that you were there for those moments, the turn of the century, the turning on of the first light bulbs.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a cool thing.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell Well, so yeah, I mean I'm I am really proud of the company that I'm a part of, right?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you said eight 1867.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that is true if you think about Babcock and Wilcox.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's when that company was was um you know was being founded.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and those two individuals invented something called the the water tube boiler.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you know you can think of a pot of water being boiled versus boiling it in tubes, and it turns out boiling it in tubes is much better.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: So they invented that, they patented that, and they that that just grew incredibly fast for them.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so and Babcock and Wilcox boilers spread around the planet through either direct operations or licenses.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and so in Canada, you know, it was it was a different company that was eventually acquired by Babcock and Wilcox, so that's why there's two different starting dates there.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: But um but you know, when you think about how you know what those two individuals sort of created, and then how it grew into different directions and eventually into nuclear power and and the technology that's been developed and and and in many cases kind of world-leading kind of stuff, right?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: It to me I'm you know just super proud to be part of that.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm proud of our company, right?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I look at what it's doing today, where we're looking at um, you know, new technology around micro reactors and reactors in space and um nuclear medicines that are you know that change people's lives, right?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's great to be a part of that.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to work with people that think of those things and invent those things and then try to figure out how to progress that as a business.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I I feel like you know, to be able to keep something going for that long and you have to reinvent yourself because clearly business is different than it was that long ago, is is a sign of a company that just kind of just keeps at it day by day, right?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Trying to figure out um you know what is going to be the next thing.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that's what appeals to me, right?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: The idea of doing the same thing over and over again does not appeal to me.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and and this company just does that.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's really driven.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why it's BWX Technologies, the T is technologies, and it's you know, just keep thinking about what are the new things we do.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it can be micro things, like how we manufacture something, or it can be a whole new product that nobody thought of before.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: It is fascinating to me.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Sounds like we could do a podcast that just brings in different guests that we we pull back the layers of the history and the little moments that that's what I love about history, are this collection of human stories that that have kind of shaped where we're at today, those really gritty moments.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I'm a bit more of a modern history major, uh, with this the American Civil War and the World Wars and um the Gilded Age.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: You are an ancient uh history, like Rome, the Roman Empire, things like that.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um what kind of first triggered, what's been some of your first memories of being triggered by by history and being curious about it?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Was this something from back in the younger days when you were little?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been interested by history.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you know, if I'd get books, you know, from the library or whatever, I'd I'd want to read about history, history and technology.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: So those two things kind of get my attention, right?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um but yeah, I've always found that there's it they're great stories, right?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's like there's a reason that they're being written down, right?
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're such great stories, whether they're entirely accurate or not is hard to know.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: But just that investigation of is that real, you know, and and people trying to find hard evidence of that is fascinating.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, I find myself in my spare time when I want to just stop thinking about work.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: I end up, you know, uh podcasts or you know, watching videos reading, uh or you know, traveling to see hist historical sites and you know, think, wow, that's that's where Julius Caesar was uh salucinated.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's amazing, right?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you go see that, which you can.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I so I just I find that it it absorbs my thoughts.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: It makes it and I learned from it.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: I find that all those stories have some learnings in them, some experience in them that helps me understand the world and people.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: I always find it interesting when people say, oh, history's boring.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't like history.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: But then you look at some of the biggest blockbuster movies, uh hit TV shows or books or whatever it is.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so many of them, like you said, they might be embellished.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think there maybe was a jack and the and a rose on the Titanic.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: But they really are just stories being played out from a historical context.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it never made sense to me that we're people were like, I don't really like history.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think popular culture shows us differently.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: And now looking back to it with leadership, do you ever find and and even talking about the downturn and the ups and downs of businesses and I sometimes find being a history major very comforting, especially in times right now where it does feel we're dealing with a word that a world that maybe is has a little bit heightened chaos lately and uncertainty.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: But being a history major has given me the perspective that big picture, this is nothing new.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: The world has been through trauma before and and kind of chaotic moments, and we've always persevered.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we won't be different.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's been conquering and takeovers and wars and turbulence all throughout history.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I find it very reassuring to keep that perspective and understand what am I feeling and what is the world feeling versus big picture, what have we always kind of moved through?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever find that, especially as someone like you who is also leading a company of your stature and through different things?
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Yeah, I do find that.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I find that, you know, the more I read about history, the more I realize that, you know, these types of things have happened and they've been going on for as long as there's been recorded history.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and so humankind isn't really, I find isn't changing that much.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: But um, of course, technology and and the context that we find ourselves living in changes.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: But there is a lot that is is common, right?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of good things, right, about uh about how humankind has progressed in terms of you know social um benefits.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: But there is, you know, the downside of conflict and war that has always been in our past.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: I wish it wasn't, but it it's there and it's probably gonna be in our future and it is in our present.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I think just knowing and accepting that fact helps sort of measure what's going on right here and now and say, yeah.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, we know that that's happened in the past, and we know that people kept progressing, and you know, life has gotten better, way better, right?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: Our lifespans are longer, uh, we just keep solving things, and and and actually I think we're on the cusp of of some really significant improvements in in all of that to make human life better and and uh in all life better.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that I feel optimistic by looking at history and knowing, yeah, there's some some stuff that we do to each other is really not great, but um but there's a lot of great stuff, right?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and we're on this kind of progression and it's just not a straight line, you know.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, it's I think it's accelerating for the better, in my opinion.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: But there's bumps in it, you know, it's ups and downs.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look at it just year by year or month by month, you can keep it's easy for me to get lost in that until I step back and think, yeah, but you know, look at the look at the past and where we're where we've been and where I think we're going.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it gives comfort to me and helps me understand how to think about it and predict things.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because you do have to try to predict things a bit in business and hope that you get those that prediction correct.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's this almost feeling that humans are gonna human, you know, and there's no more or less evil or kindness or love or greed or anything in the world than there ever has been.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully less and less, and we're getting smarter, but we'll see, because we are still humans.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: One of my the the things to me that really puts it into perspective in the silliest of ways is again being an American Civil War um major.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know that women of those ages, they wanted very pale skin, because pale skin, of course, they they weren't out working, they it showed a different level of status.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: So they used to take milk baths to help whiten their skin.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: And now you flash forward to modern days where we do kind of the same thing, but we just do the opposite.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: We get tanners, we want to go tanning, we get in beds, we use fake creams all over.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: And humans are just going to keep being humans.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, the actions may change, but I really do feel this thought that we're probably not that different from our predecessors in so many ways.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something so binding about that that again is calming.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: And in a position of leadership, it probably helps you give perspective to others and lead and be a rish reassuring in times where it does feel a bit chaotic and turbulent.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorites is Abraham Lincoln, and there's still so many lessons that I pull from him all of the time.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've mentioned you didn't come into this thinking I'm gonna be a leader.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: You've mentioned to me previously that you don't really even see yourself still as, you know, that that leader in the sense that maybe some people use the word, but you are.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: And a question for you here is: are there ever times that you self-doubt yourself or that you struggle with questioning your abilities in certain aspects?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Oh, yeah, there's there's plenty of those times, I would say, for me.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they range, I would say, from okay, we're about to make a decision, is this the right decision?
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_02: Am I, you know, might think about it the right way?
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I have some great people I work with that I can, you know, I can get them to help me to say, I don't think we should do that, you know, that's a bad idea, or or support the idea.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: But there's you know, there's bigger times where you think, I don't know if I'm the right person to do this, right?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and at least for me.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think those are, you know, those are tough.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um from my perspective anyway, there's a healthy aspect to that where you you you know sort of self-assess and and and hopefully have uh a balanced view of things and then say, well, you know, actually maybe I am the right person, right, to to do these things.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's worked out well in the past.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um I you know, I it's a tough time we're going through, but I think I can do it.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so it's helped me at least um challenge myself, right, to be better and to try to figure it out.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's it's not unusual to have those thoughts for me about maybe there'd be somebody better at this than me.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and you, you know, because you want the company to do well, you want whatever you're doing, the organization you're part of, to do well.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think it's a healthy thing to say, am I the right person for this?
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's no different than um an organization assessing itself and saying, are we doing the right thing?
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: Are we being safe enough?
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: Or are we, you know, are we is our quality in the right place?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a leader needs to say, yeah, am I doing the right thing and am I the right in the right place?
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: And or should I be doing something else?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I have those thoughts.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I've never heard it in that perspective before.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's never clicked with me the way you've just explained that of almost reframing it from a moment of self-doubt and saying, okay, well, how do I use this to actually be a tactical skill set that makes me check, am I doing the right things?
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gathering the right information?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's something I struggle with.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very hard on myself.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: And again, going back to parents and how they can really um be a bright spot sometimes.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: My my father and my mother have always been tremendous at letting me work through that self-doubt, or if I'm having moments reminding me, well, look, but you've done this and this and this, so why not this?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I have tried to reframe it as and I think I've told you this before.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think people who are truly successful, and and maybe some of the greatest people who really accomplish a lot have two things going for them.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I maybe I use this, I lie to myself, so it makes me feel better.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think on on one you know line we have this confidence of knowing I'm capable, I'm smart, I think differently, of course I can do this, and I don't think there is someone that could do it better.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: But then we have this other one that says, I can't do this, people are gonna realize I'm a fraud, I don't know how to do this, this is overwhelming, and the self-doubt.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's this point where they cross that that meeting place of that confidence and that insecurity that really positions us to excel because we're not so confident that we're arrogant, we take things for granted.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we're just secure enough that we keep pushing ourselves because we have this little fear of not being enough.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that has worked for me in saying, okay, well, that's a superpower.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can take those insecurities and those moments laying in bed thinking I can't do this and everyone's gonna find out and saying, well, no, that's what's gonna make me really good because I'm not gonna rest on my laurels and I'm gonna keep pushing.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I like yours as well as almost like a business strategy.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm feeling this doubt.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: What checks and balances do I need to run through to really make sure that I am stable and this is okay?
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've never thought of it before like that, so I like it.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: And on yeah, go ahead and Well, I you know, like a team is so important.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's harder in a small business, obviously, but uh a bigger business, you know, you I think you need um the team to be successful uh as a as a business because you know it's hard for any one person to be right about everything or or good at everything.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: I try though.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you do great.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it but it's it's so it's easier in a place where you've got a team, right?
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a bunch of people.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, so we can attract and we have attracted some really talented people and and so you can balance things off each other and provided that you're listening and you're getting everybody's kind of input.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and and they're they are coming at it from different places and different ways of thinking, and you've got new players in your business versus people that have been there for a while who bring really interesting perspectives.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's you know, that that is a healthy thing to be, you know, just making sure that certainly as a leader that you know, just you know, making a decision and going ahead without getting all that input.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it makes it a lot better.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because you you know, you might have to make a tough decision too, right?
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_02: Where it but I don't want to do that just you know, sort of on my own without without getting a lot of feedback.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: And by the time I work through that, you know what I feel confident, I feel a lot better.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think other people do too, because they know they're part of that, right?
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then you you really build that teamwork and teamworks better together, and that makes a more successful enterprise, is is my view of it.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's that's how I think of it.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and it lessens that anxiety that you might feel about, well, it it's all about me, because it isn't, right?
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_02: It it it is about a group of people, right?
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: That and that is also mitigates that feeling of you know, that sort of imposter kind of pretender thing, right?
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Where yeah, but okay, but you're you're not the only one, right?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: You it's a leadership group, and you can really lean on that if you have that luxury, which I do.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I do.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's so we're over ten now in in on the team.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going, and I think one of the things for me, of course, when I started the business, and again, I'm I'm quite hard on myself, I know I'm a capable woman.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh in my my episode with with Rajna Clavero, I was talking about how for the longest time I put this pressure on myself to be really great at doing the books and being you know the accountant and the bookkeeper.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, why am I doing this?
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not good at this.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is imposter syndrome, this is the imposter um living, because nor do I want to do this.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be a bookkeeper.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so obviously you have to build up, get your cash flow, and make sure your resources are there.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: But starting to understand what am I really not good at and hand it off and let someone else take that.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: That to me has been the true gift of a team.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, having the ideas being bounced around and getting different perspectives, but really allowing myself to say, well, I don't have to feel like an imposter about that anymore because I've got someone who's very talented and they can kind of teach me what I need to know, but that's off my plate.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: That has helped me too, is is kind of delegating out things that I know I'm I'm faking it till I did not make it in, you know?
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean it it's um one of the things that I'm fortunate is about.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Been through a bunch of leadership training where you know where it didn't I needed that training to learn about how to leverage people around me.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and it absolutely is about that, right?
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: Where it recognizing what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are, and then hopefully having a team around you that you know can help you with those weaknesses and and bolster the strengths, right?
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I think that is a real important skill set, is just is thinking that way and having sort of diversity of thought and opinion, super valuable for an organization.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and you know, it to the extent that I could give advice to anybody, I'd say just really focus on that.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it takes pressure off yourself.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: And even that the curiosity that comes from the team of but like we have a really an environment where we ask a lot of questions, we challenge each other, others thinking, we ask frequently, are we coming at this with a bias, or is there something we haven't thought of?
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: So starting to build that ecosystem, even where we really encourage that questioning and that thought process, I find that very freeing because you're almost safeguarding yourself away from some of the things that you you may blindly have just gone through because they're asking different questions than I am.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: So this team of curious individuals is going to move forward in a more fun, but also in a more um capable way than just myself, even though I know I am capable and confident, you're never gonna be as capable and competent as if you have a group of others who are equally as talented in their strengths.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell It's a tough for an individual to beat a team, right?
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are those extraordinary individuals, but teams are generally gonna win, right?
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: Against an individual.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's a it's a great thing to keep in mind, right?
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell And if we have moments of self-doubt, and I I know we're uh we're running out of time here, but one thing I definitely want to ask you the opposite of that, when you look at your career so far, what are some of those moments that you are are very proud of yourself in?
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell Our company has grown a lot um in the in the last 10 years or so, and and I've been in leadership role for that time.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I feel really proud of where the company is today in in terms of the sort of the scale of the company, the the breadth of capabilities that people that we have in the company.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like I've had a you know a part in that that that I I feel good about, you know.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's probably when I look at it today, I that's what I feel most proud of in the moment.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't think about that you know every day, but but that would probably be the one of the biggest things.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: And we you know we employ a lot of people, there are good jobs, um, and you know, that supports their families.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um I you know, I I feel good about that, right?
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to have that situation.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're hiring, we're growing, um, and and the future looks good.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_02: So so those are the things that I I probably take the most um pride from.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then you know, I I think I am realizing that that certainly wasn't all me, but but it you know, I was part of it and certainly part of the leadership of it.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that yeah, that makes me feel good.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell If I could be so bold, I'd like to say something that I think you should feel very proud of.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is I've talked to many people who have worked for you, with you, within your ecosystem or close to it.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the way you treat people and the way you make f people feel about themselves has been a very consistent theme with anyone who's talked about you as a leader or someone that they've been close to.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, when we uh look at ourselves, the human experience of our lives, we spend a lot of time building businesses, but we're also living our lives.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would say I think that's something you should be very proud of because it's it's not that way with every leader, especially egos can get involved in things like that.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: And anyone I have ever spoken to has talked about how you have made them feel and how you have treated people around you, regardless of where they were at in status or role or position.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's nice to hear that.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I've always tried to operate in a place where um it's collegial, right, that we work together.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like hierarchy that much.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like that's it's not needed.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there are times when we have to make decisions and and and there is a chain of command, but I I don't I don't want to reinforce that.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_02: I want it to be more um flat and nimble and we just work together.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I just want to treat people the way I want to be treated, right?
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I try to keep that in mind.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great question that I ask myself about I got a different, a very difficult conversation to have here.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_02: How should I handle it?
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, well, what would I want somebody to say to me?
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: It works pretty well for me that I can usually, you know, because I I think I'm not so different than most people about how I want to be um approached in that moment when I need somebody needs to talk to me.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And these people like I work with, I've worked with them for a long time in many cases.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Some you know, we have newer uh folks, of course, but in many cases a long time.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I've spent I spent a lot of my life with these folks, right?
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I really care about them.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_02: And um and and yeah, it's you know we can't do anything without the welder or the fitter on the shop floor or you know, the the person that does payroll, like you know, everybody matters, right?
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just and I value that.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_02: I value those people.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, really quick, I know I'm taking up more of your time than you had bargained for.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I going back to our conversation where you had said, you know, this might not be the most comfortable setting, you could have said no.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and here you are.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate that you did say yes and and came uh and did this with us today.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_01: What is exciting you the most about nuclear today and in its you know direct future?
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_01: What is really making you happy to be here?
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Yeah.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: So this is uh in only three decades in the industry, this is the most exciting time, actually, right?
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And there's been some great times, but this is super exciting now because you're seeing this.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, one, if you know, just reading the news at the time that we were recording this, public opinion has shifted around the world to be interested in and sort of in favor of nuclear.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I wouldn't have predicted that.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, I was just a few years ago thinking, I don't know if there's going to be enough work for us, right?
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of a chronic kind of thought that isn't very pleasant.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_02: But that is not the case, right?
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's just lots of demand right now that we're experiencing, but we're working on things that would be uh just a ton of demand.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're expanding our factory, um, you know, we're hiring people, as I said, and and there's all these new projects that are being developed for all types of reactors, for you know, the other things that we do that are not necessarily just pure power generation.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I've never seen more interest and more energy uh it going into nuclear, nuclear technologies than than I see today, right?
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so it is a super fascinating time.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it it creates you know, it it's challenging and it's growing is actually it can be difficult, right?
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're you've got to figure out how to add all these people and then get everything organized and deliver for somebody.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And there's pain if you don't deliver for that customer for sure for them, but also for the supplier.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean that's a nice problem to have compared to the opposite of that.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's where we're at.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and when I look forward, I think it's you know fundamentally structural that the world wants more electricity.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, fundamentally the big part of what we do is is energy for electricity.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I think that's just structural and it's gonna stay that way.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, what a great feeling.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Having been through a time when yeah, there's not much growth, it's the opposite problem, there's no demand, uh, which is a terrible time to go through.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is you know, is fantastic.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I couldn't be more excited about where we're at right now and and how the future looks.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thrilled by.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_01: See, you can't retire yet because we need you, the industry needs you, and there's so much going on that why would you want to leave?
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Not in the future.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be here as long as I'm here, you know.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_00: We've got uh a few more years ahead of us.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope so.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I hope so.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And my job it, you know, part of it is uh it's not entirely up to me.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I need to make sure things go well, but um I'm doing my best to do that, and the the conditions are really favorable.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're glad that you're here in the industry.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: It has been so lovely having you in the studio, so thank you for being here today and splitting atoms with me.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a pleasure.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for the conversation.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_01: The Splitting Adams podcast is produced by Splitting Adams Media, a division of the Carolyn Corporation.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_01: All of our conversations are made possible through the support of our founding partner, the Nuclear Innovation Institute.