Latest / The Brewery Underground Podcast | Craft Beer Interviews, Reviews and Beer Travel / Hoppin' Frog Brewery: Fred Karm, Barrel-Aged Stouts & Turbo Shandies | Complete Interview | Re-release of Episodes 85 and 86

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Hoppin' Frog Brewery: Fred Karm, Barrel-Aged Stouts & Turbo Shandies | Complete Interview | Re-release of Episodes 85 and 86 · The Brewery Underground Podcast | Craft Beer Interviews, Reviews and Beer Travel

• 0:00
  Hey, Scott. Hey, Steve.
• 0:02
  You know, we had the pleasure last year of going to a Legacy
• 0:07
  brewery, one that's been known for great beer for a long time,
• 0:11
  and that would be Hop and Frog in Akron, OH.
• 0:16
  Yep, we visited them in May of 2025.
• 0:19
  We did, and then we got them on our podcast.
• 0:23
  We did and those episodes released.
• 0:25
  I was just looking today, August 14th and August 21st of 2025 S
• 0:31
  almost within a week of it being a year.
• 0:33
  Well, one of the guests, it just happened to be the man himself,
• 0:38
  the founder Fred Carm, who was on that podcast episode.
• 0:43
  He is retiring from 20 years of running Hop and Frog and we want
• 0:50
  to congratulate him on a happy retirement.
• 0:54
  Absolutely. Congratulations, Fred.
• 0:57
  I'm 20 years and and congratulations on the
• 0:59
  retirement. I know Zachary is taking over
• 1:02
  and the brewery is going to be in great hands.
• 1:05
  We want to congratulate Fred. And you know what, in honor of
• 1:08
  this, we are going to replay the episode that we had with the
• 1:12
  folks at Hoppin Frog. You know, we're going to hear
• 1:15
  all about Fred's story once again, how way back in the day
• 1:19
  he started selling beer out of his car.
• 1:22
  But you got to listen to this podcast episode if you haven't
• 1:26
  yet. But again, congratulations on
• 1:30
  retirement. Yeah, Congratulations, Fred.
• 1:33
  Yes, these were episodes 85 and 86 for us.
• 1:37
  What we did on this following episode you're about to hear is
• 1:39
  combine the two parts together into one episode.
• 1:42
  So you've got one continuous full episode, and we just want
• 1:47
  to do it to congratulate Fred. We'll raise our glass to Fred.
• 1:50
  Cheers. Cheers, Fred.
• 1:51
  Happy retirement. I got some mood music going on.
• 2:27
  I used to play when I would brew by myself at like 5:00 or 6:00
• 2:31
  AM, I'd come into a formal brewery where I worked and I'd
• 2:34
  fire up the like smooth jazz. So I'm listening to Down to the
• 2:38
  Bone right now, Great beginning of the day kind of music.
• 2:43
  And then by the end of the day, back then, I'd be listening to
• 2:46
  Metallica. Yeah, yeah, to set the tone the
• 2:49
  day, right. And then you just work up into
• 2:51
  Metallica, right? Right.
• 2:53
  That's how it was, yes, that's. How it wasn't why I used to brew
• 2:55
  by myself at the one brewery that we were brewing at.
• 2:58
  Then there's another brewery where I had a assistant.
• 3:00
  We would play more normal music. Well, awesome.
• 3:03
  Well, we are happy to kick off the Brewery on the Ground
• 3:07
  podcast and, and we've been so excited.
• 3:10
  Scott and I have been about this episode coming out because we
• 3:13
  stopped at Hopping Frog in Akron in mid-May and tonight Scott, we
• 3:19
  have an All Star lineup from Hop and Frog.
• 3:22
  You want to do the introductions for us, my friend?
• 3:24
  Yes, so we've got Fred Carm, owner, Brewmaster, still in the
• 3:28
  title. Yes, all.
• 3:30
  Right. We've got Zach Baston, Director.
• 3:33
  Do I get that right? Yes, Zachary and Zachary and
• 3:37
  John Humphrey, beer Ambassador, welcome guys.
• 3:40
  Hey, thanks for having us. Yeah, it's going to be fun.
• 3:42
  Yeah, we had a we had a great visit.
• 3:44
  We didn't get to stay long enough because we're on our way
• 3:46
  to Cleveland, but we made sure we stopped at your brewery on
• 3:49
  the way up. Well, thanks.
• 3:50
  Appreciate that. Yeah, we're going to, we're
• 3:51
  going to definitely talk about that.
• 3:53
  And I know right before we hit the record button, I know you
• 3:56
  had said Fred, you know, we got to start with a beer.
• 4:00
  And I know you got a beer. Show us what you're show us what
• 4:03
  you're drinking tonight. So I busted this out first.
• 4:06
  This is our Hot Shots Zesty Pickle beer, which is tasty.
• 4:10
  We made this just for the Hot Shots people.
• 4:13
  It's available at the brewery too.
• 4:14
  This is something that isn't really distributed at all.
• 4:17
  This is a real special beer that we do just locally and a lot of
• 4:21
  fun. It incorporates a lot of dill
• 4:23
  pickle flavor and a little bit of spice, but it's light and
• 4:26
  easy drinking so super fun. Great one to start the night
• 4:30
  with. Nice, yeah.
• 4:31
  Cheers to that. John, how about you?
• 4:33
  What are you drinking tonight? All right, well, I am, I'm going
• 4:37
  for and some say it's early. I don't care.
• 4:40
  I love this beer. I'll drink this beer Christmas
• 4:43
  time, summertime Frank, if I have it, I'm drinking it.
• 4:46
  It's our Frogs Hollow Double Pumpkin Ale.
• 4:48
  It's a gold medal winner at the Great American Beer Festival.
• 4:52
  But so I started first six years I worked, I started in the
• 4:55
  brewery and I loved making this beer because we would mix all
• 4:58
  the spices together to put in the kettle and just the whole
• 5:01
  brewery would have this bouquet of spices and it's just filled
• 5:05
  the air. I've always loved that, so it's
• 5:07
  always stuck with me, that beer. Is that tend to be a seasonal
• 5:10
  beer or do you guys just to release it kind of whenever?
• 5:12
  No, it's definitely a seasonal beer for the market, but I'll
• 5:15
  drink it whenever. I love pumpkin beer.
• 5:17
  It doesn't matter to me. If I like something, I'm gonna
• 5:20
  drink it. And I had that pumpkin beer.
• 5:26
  I'm looking on my untapped app right now.
• 5:28
  I had it November of last year. I picked it up in CAN here in
• 5:32
  Nashville. Nice.
• 5:34
  I really liked it. So yeah, really good beer.
• 5:36
  Right. Maybe we should do Halloween in
• 5:38
  March or Halloween in April, Yeah.
• 5:41
  Yeah, everything's all right. The seasons to beer ratio was
• 5:43
  completely backwards at this point, but I'm kind of like, I'm
• 5:47
  kind of like John at this point. If it's there like fresh beers
• 5:49
  now around, I'm like, just embrace it, let's go.
• 5:51
  Right? Yeah, I was going to start.
• 5:56
  A little more simple, but it is still delicious is our one of
• 6:00
  our newer ones actually is our hop and pilsner.
• 6:02
  We're not necessarily known for low alcohol beers, but I got to
• 6:07
  tell you what, having a tap room and needing a place where we can
• 6:10
  someone could come and have more than two or three.
• 6:13
  The hop and pills are comes in right now for just under 5% and
• 6:17
  it's super crisp and refreshing. A great way to start is what I'm
• 6:22
  feeling. That's that's great.
• 6:24
  And in this heat that we've had we were just talking about look
• 6:27
  at that. That's beautiful, yes, and this
• 6:29
  week we've had those are those beers are welcome.
• 6:31
  And and Zachary, yeah, I actually influenced Scott to get
• 6:34
  that on our trip when we went to Hop and Frog because I had
• 6:39
  gotten that one on a flight and I'm drinking it.
• 6:41
  And I said, man, this is a really, really good pilsner.
• 6:45
  And I really enjoyed it. It stood out even more from some
• 6:48
  of the other pilsners I've had maybe in recent time.
• 6:50
  And so Scott says, oh, I gotta get that one too.
• 6:52
  So it's hope. It's always good to influence
• 6:54
  people, you know. Absolutely.
• 6:56
  Yeah, well, it was like I didn't get it on my flight.
• 6:58
  I had four others and then Steve said how good it was.
• 7:01
  And I like, well, we're not leaving until I have it.
• 7:03
  We I was like, we're getting, I don't care how long it takes to
• 7:06
  drink it, we're having it. Oh that makes me feel so good
• 7:08
  because that wasn't at all our bailiwick, but we can make a
• 7:12
  damn good pilsner and think about it a little bit.
• 7:16
  Yeah, that's all right. Steve, what have you got?
• 7:18
  Well, guys, you know, we're about to kick off and I know
• 7:21
  we're in the early stages, I guess, of Oktoberfest season.
• 7:25
  And I found this in Cannes here in Nashville.
• 7:28
  It is the Hop and Frog Oktoberfest.
• 7:31
  Nice. Yeah, I am.
• 7:34
  I am a Oktoberfest guy. I I would love trying almost any
• 7:39
  variation of an Oktoberfest beer and this is the first one.
• 7:44
  In fact, I had it the other night and it was really good.
• 7:46
  But this is the first Oktoberfest beer that I've had
• 7:48
  from you guys and so great to kick off the season for it.
• 7:51
  Heck. Yeah, I can tell you something
• 7:54
  special about that. It's 100% German ingredients,
• 7:57
  which is pretty special. Yes, I'm fond of saying the only
• 8:00
  thing we couldn't bring in was the.
• 8:01
  Water supposed. To work on that.
• 8:04
  That would be a little more difficult.
• 8:06
  German and it has it has a cool flavor because of that
• 8:09
  traditional flavor. You know that malt that they
• 8:11
  have over there is different. Story about that beer that
• 8:13
  Steve's drinking right now. A couple years ago, group of our
• 8:17
  friends got together and we did a blind tasting on nothing but
• 8:19
  Oktoberfest beers. We had 18 different beers, so
• 8:22
  everybody just brought different things.
• 8:24
  And I'm not kidding. That beer, one in a blind test,
• 8:27
  multiple rounds, that beer one out.
• 8:30
  Wow, yes. I believe.
• 8:32
  It wow, that's awesome. It did, and there were some
• 8:35
  other Sherman beers in there and I have them on my list here.
• 8:38
  Like I Anger or Steiner was in there.
• 8:41
  Really. Yeah, it's like my absolute
• 8:43
  favorite. I just love angers.
• 8:46
  Yep, they were the Hacker, Shore, Shiner, Polliner and even
• 8:49
  Sam Adams was in that blind tasting.
• 8:51
  So to win in a blind is even better I think cuz you don't
• 8:54
  know what you're getting. To be fair, we probably charge
• 8:57
  more for ours than most of the other people because we don't
• 9:02
  skimp on any ingredients. So that's wonderful that we
• 9:04
  could actually win that blind tasting.
• 9:06
  It makes me feel good. It's kind of, it's justifying
• 9:09
  for what we do because we use more ingredients than most
• 9:12
  people, you know, getting more flavor than most people, but
• 9:14
  also more cost. And I, I love them.
• 9:17
  So I we don't stop. But yeah, there's sometimes when
• 9:20
  we wish we could be more cost effective.
• 9:22
  But when you win contests, when you beat 18 other Oktoberfest,
• 9:26
  including a anger. Oh my God, Yep.
• 9:29
  It's like the leading one from Germany in my book.
• 9:31
  Yep. And like I said, multiple
• 9:32
  rounds. So it was, it was, it wasn't a
• 9:35
  it wasn't a fluke. You ran the gauntlet and you
• 9:38
  won. Wow.
• 9:39
  Thank you man, it makes me feel good.
• 9:41
  You made my night. Absolutely.
• 9:42
  Thanks for sharing. That's great.
• 9:44
  We were gonna talk about Oktoberfest beer at some point
• 9:48
  during this podcast. Since we're doing it now, it
• 9:51
  kind of evokes some other questions.
• 9:54
  We talk about this all the time. What do you guys think about
• 9:57
  Oktoberfest season? This seems like it starts
• 10:01
  earlier and earlier every year. I mean, are you in on it or like
• 10:05
  you know, it's driven by the marketplace?
• 10:08
  I would love to know what you guys thoughts on are.
• 10:10
  Well, it's definitely driven by the marketplace.
• 10:13
  Yeah. I mean, yeah.
• 10:16
  I mean, everybody wants to get out there first.
• 10:18
  I think that that's where that all started.
• 10:20
  So distributors are wanting to get it so they can get on the
• 10:23
  store shelves first before the other guys do.
• 10:26
  And so now it's just kind of expected.
• 10:28
  I mean, I think the benefit the consumer gets maybe a little bit
• 10:32
  longer period of that product, but some of them get a little
• 10:35
  upset too when they see it on the shelf and it's July.
• 10:38
  Yeah, yeah. It's there's always something to
• 10:40
  be said. We always say something about
• 10:42
  it. Meanwhile, I go get it.
• 10:43
  Right. Right.
• 10:44
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 10:45
  So it's kind of nice to have it come out like a month earlier
• 10:47
  than you'd expect and then you have an opportunity to buy it a
• 10:49
  second time. That's kind of.
• 10:50
  Yeah, I guess my only the downside of that is if it goes
• 10:53
  away too quickly and it's still the middle of even October, if
• 10:57
  it lasts that long, that's kind of the downside of it.
• 10:59
  But I'm not going to sit there and let it sit on the shelf.
• 11:01
  I'm going to get it. I'm going to drink it.
• 11:03
  Yeah, I mean, as a brewery that does a lot of different styles
• 11:06
  of beer, do you do you feel like the style of Oktoberfest?
• 11:11
  There's a lot of people that are coming in and this time of the
• 11:13
  year they are expecting it. And if they're not seeing it,
• 11:16
  they're walking away disappointed.
• 11:18
  So you got it's consumer demand, right?
• 11:20
  Oh. Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:22
  Yeah, you definitely got to have it.
• 11:23
  Credit Sam Adams. Ultimately, there you go.
• 11:26
  They were the ones that always seem to have it out first.
• 11:28
  They. They paved the way for us.
• 11:31
  I have great respect for people like them and the close local
• 11:34
  ones. One that did that for us is
• 11:35
  Great Lakes. You know, they've been around
• 11:37
  for I think 35 years. Got to throw them respect every
• 11:40
  time I can, man, cuz they, they paved the way for us.
• 11:42
  They were charging more than, you know, that anyone had ever
• 11:46
  charged for beer before. It was really awesome and tons
• 11:48
  of flavor and we just we took it to the next level.
• 11:50
  Wendy, you guys, cuz you know, like I said, I obviously saw
• 11:53
  this in a beer store. In fact, I was just South of me.
• 11:56
  I live South of Nashville and I went on a beer and liquor store
• 12:01
  about a week ago and I was on their Facebook page.
• 12:03
  I'm like, you have any Hop and Frog down there?
• 12:05
  And like we absolutely do. And I walked in and they had
• 12:07
  several different variations. But when I saw that Oktoberfest,
• 12:10
  I said this is going to be perfect for the podcast you.
• 12:14
  Made a beeline right for it. You had to.
• 12:17
  I had to. When do you start sending out
• 12:19
  cans of Oktoberfest? During the year that.
• 12:22
  'D be exactly a question, probably, right?
• 12:24
  That's in July. Yeah, Can you believe it?
• 12:27
  It's hard to believe. Yes.
• 12:29
  Well, I mean, it's just cuz when you think about the the the
• 12:32
  timeline, you know, from when it gets picked up from us and then
• 12:34
  gets to the distributor and then the time they get to the stores
• 12:37
  and then till it gets on the shelves.
• 12:38
  I mean, there is a little bit of a time frame in which all that
• 12:41
  needs to happen. So that ensures, you know, an
• 12:44
  August shelf date. But some are a little faster
• 12:47
  than others. So yeah.
• 12:49
  Do you, do you have to start brewing that in March or can you
• 12:53
  wait a little later for that? Or do you just go ahead and get
• 12:55
  it out of the way as early as possible?
• 12:58
  No, we do it a little. I do, you know, it's funny.
• 13:00
  I knew you're probably going to ask when do we start brewing
• 13:02
  that like off the top of my head, I don't remember.
• 13:03
  I feel it's it's a little later than March, though.
• 13:06
  I do know that. You don't have to storm the
• 13:07
  loggering tunnels anymore, right?
• 13:09
  You've got, we've got technology now where we don't want to do
• 13:12
  that, right, Right. No tunnels involved, right?
• 13:15
  Yeah, 300 years ago, yeah. And I know there's so many
• 13:19
  breweries out there, they do a lot of different special
• 13:22
  Oktoberfest events, you know, maybe once a year.
• 13:24
  Do you guys do anything like that?
• 13:26
  Or is it just more hey, here it is and you know, here it is in
• 13:29
  our tap room and enjoy the Oktoberfest during the season.
• 13:32
  That's what we don't do an event around, yeah.
• 13:35
  It's more just enjoy it for the whole season.
• 13:37
  Yep. Yeah, it's been a long time.
• 13:39
  We, we do other large events around other beers that have
• 13:43
  kind of developed a cult following around the brewery and
• 13:45
  then beyond. But Oktoberfest, I think it was
• 13:48
  a long time ago. We, we, we had like a German
• 13:51
  band, like a polka band come in and, and all that.
• 13:53
  We did it like one or two years and it was fine.
• 13:57
  A certain group of, you know, people had fun.
• 13:59
  But yeah, we've, we've moved on to some other crazy parties that
• 14:03
  we have throughout the year. Well.
• 14:03
  There's. Already a lot of German type
• 14:05
  festivals around here too, which I think is, I mean, heck, we all
• 14:09
  go to them. So I mean it's like, you know,
• 14:10
  at that point it's like, hey here, just come and enjoy our
• 14:13
  beer, enjoy the food and you know, at your leisure.
• 14:17
  Don't feel like you got to come on a certain day to be able to
• 14:19
  have fun. As we like to say, it's a it's a
• 14:21
  festival at the brewery every day.
• 14:23
  Yeah, so let's just celebrate every day.
• 14:27
  Yeah, we're throwing a beer fest every day.
• 14:29
  Yep. Well, my check in tonight of
• 14:31
  Oktoberfest certainly is hog some conversation, but we
• 14:35
  haven't found out yet what Scott is drinking so we.
• 14:37
  Gotta ask him. I was waiting for an opportunity
• 14:40
  and I found these today. That can going.
• 14:42
  What is that? Plum with my camera I can't see.
• 14:45
  Man. Plum Tucker.
• 14:46
  Wow. Double, Double Porter, Yeah,
• 14:50
  18.8%. And what's great, and maybe it's
• 14:53
  the only way it's served, it's in like an 8 1/2 ounce can, yes.
• 14:56
  Right. Yeah, Yep.
• 14:57
  Like look at this because. It's a tiny little thing.
• 14:59
  It's awesome. Perfect.
• 15:00
  It's a personal serving, even though it's and.
• 15:03
  For that ABV, you know you don't need 16 ounces necessarily,
• 15:06
  although I did get chorus. Less barrelage.
• 15:11
  You've got a rare. You've got a rare can there.
• 15:13
  That's a great beer. Oh yeah, we don't make the
• 15:17
  barrel age version of that every year.
• 15:19
  That's a golden. Ticket.
• 15:20
  Yeah, back to get. The rest of them?
• 15:21
  I love it that Willy Wonka there.
• 15:24
  That's right. Well, I love them because
• 15:26
  they're all these smaller cans. And then I got a Taurus the
• 15:29
  Tyrant. I got that.
• 15:31
  One. Yeah, well.
• 15:31
  You know another small can. Here's another one to not to
• 15:35
  jump too far, but to add to your collection and keep an eye out
• 15:37
  for but. Oh yeah.
• 15:39
  No sextuple, yeah. What is that?
• 15:42
  Is that a triple? No, OK, it's not a triple.
• 15:46
  It's not a. Quad.
• 15:47
  It's a quad. It's a sex tuple.
• 15:49
  Duh. Yeah, so imagine a super quad.
• 15:53
  A super quad. I mean it's just 16.4% quite
• 15:58
  easy drinking but I get another one of these light these nice
• 16:01
  single serving cans I love. This has been popular.
• 16:05
  So this you guys been keeping up with the frog, but we actually
• 16:09
  point the pentupple. We got to a point where we won a
• 16:12
  bronze medal with it, the GABF followed by a gold medal.
• 16:16
  So we can confidently say that we've made a a great example of
• 16:20
  what would be considered a Belgian beer, but they haven't
• 16:23
  made it yet because they've made-up to the quadruple.
• 16:25
  Well, we made a pentuple and we've we've won some of the best
• 16:28
  medals now, so we're super excited about that.
• 16:30
  Our head Brewer Lee was the one that suggested, hey, I think
• 16:33
  it's time for sextuple. I said, oh, no way, you kidding
• 16:36
  me? Then I looked, I'm like, man,
• 16:38
  it's been like 6 or 7 years since we released the pentuppo.
• 16:40
  Let's do it man. Their pattern, just like the
• 16:45
  Belgians do. So every odd numbered 1 is going
• 16:48
  to be a lighter, more hop forward one.
• 16:51
  This being sextuple, it's rich and and thick and delicious.
• 16:55
  You know, you know, there's a lot of, there's obviously a lot
• 16:58
  of competition out there to win these awards with other
• 17:01
  breweries. I mean, what does this mean for
• 17:03
  you guys? I mean, you've been at it since
• 17:05
  about 2006. What does it mean for you in
• 17:08
  this in this age, you know, to keep winning awards?
• 17:12
  It means the world because it's such competition now, it's
• 17:15
  harder and harder to prove yourself.
• 17:17
  You can point to the medals you had before, but it's only about
• 17:20
  the the ones you won recently, which kind of bums me out
• 17:23
  because I haven't entered the last couple years, but we
• 17:25
  haven't entered the last couple years.
• 17:27
  But as it turns out, the GABF is changing.
• 17:29
  So I don't know if as many people are entering anymore,
• 17:32
  things are changing. But to prove ourselves
• 17:35
  differently. Now what was your question are.
• 17:37
  You going to GABF this year? No, just try to go every few
• 17:41
  years or just when the mood strikes you.
• 17:42
  We don't have a plan. We we decided not to do it last
• 17:46
  year or this year. We're focusing on other growth
• 17:48
  aspects of the business. OK, nice way to put it, nice way
• 17:51
  to spin it. There you go.
• 17:53
  Well, you guys just celebrated 19 years in business.
• 17:57
  I have that right 19 you just had.
• 17:59
  A Let me think 19's coming up September 1st.
• 18:02
  September 1st. OK, so we're coming up on it.
• 18:04
  I know when we were at the at the brewery, they were saying it
• 18:06
  was coming up and I figured maybe it had to happen to her.
• 18:08
  So we're, I mean, you're just weeks away from 19 years.
• 18:11
  Yeah. How are you guys going to
• 18:12
  celebrate that? I have a massive celebration.
• 18:14
  I guess that'd be the 20th year, but the 19th?
• 18:17
  We should do something, huh? I mean, we always do things like
• 18:19
  food specials. We'll break out tons of
• 18:21
  different beers. We'll probably do like 6 vintage
• 18:24
  beers that we'll get out. We'll tap 3 at the beginning of
• 18:27
  the week, 3 towards the end of the week, and we'll make make it
• 18:30
  some of the best ones that we have.
• 18:31
  We have such a stash now after being open for 19 years, man,
• 18:35
  you look at the list, it's like you start salivating, like, Oh
• 18:38
  my gosh, yeah, what are we going to tap up?
• 18:40
  So it's really fun to be us when it comes to anniversary weeks
• 18:44
  and stuff like that. Can you do a 19 temple?
• 18:47
  Is that a thing? I don't know what's the what's
• 18:49
  the thing for 19? I don't know, right?
• 18:53
  What do you get someone for your 19th anniversary?
• 18:55
  You know, it's Yeah, right. Is that diamond?
• 18:57
  No. Yeah, I.
• 18:58
  Don't know. I don't know what that is.
• 18:59
  Beer. I just let's go with beer.
• 19:00
  Right. What do things look like and
• 19:04
  when you when you go all the way back now to 2006 when you
• 19:08
  opened, what did things look like back then for your brewery?
• 19:11
  You can almost do no wrong. You put product out there and
• 19:14
  you know unless it was shitty, people loved it.
• 19:17
  Lucky for us we don't have any of those problems.
• 19:19
  As I asked distributors, they would often times say yes.
• 19:22
  Now they laugh in your yeah, it's really hard to get
• 19:24
  distributor ships now, whereas before they were interested.
• 19:27
  It was cool. It was so different back then.
• 19:29
  I like to tell people when I got my license in Ohio, I was #40
• 19:33
  now there's 440 or there were at the beginning of the year, and
• 19:36
  there's probably more now. So it's really changed quite a
• 19:39
  bit. Fred, when you emailed us last,
• 19:41
  you said that these guys had been with you at least 10 years
• 19:45
  or over 10 years each of them. That's got to be a testament to
• 19:49
  the work environment. You know your Co workers, what
• 19:52
  you guys are doing, can you guys talk to that for being there for
• 19:54
  10 years and kind of what what that means to you guys?
• 19:57
  Yeah, I mean, I guess I can, I can go first.
• 20:00
  Yeah. It's been, I mean, obviously
• 20:02
  we're, you know, when we started brewery was, oh gosh, four or
• 20:07
  five years old, kind of starting to grow.
• 20:09
  And Fred was, I've been doing a lot of it himself and was, you
• 20:14
  know, brought us on board and always took great care of us,
• 20:17
  you know, and was a great teacher, great motivator.
• 20:21
  Learned a lot. We had a lot of fun.
• 20:23
  We worked hard though, too. Don't it's not like home
• 20:25
  brewing. I guess I should say that.
• 20:26
  Now, the disclaimer, it's not like home brewing where you come
• 20:30
  in, you set up, you start the, you know, start getting things
• 20:33
  going and then you just drink all day.
• 20:34
  And at the end of the day, you do knockout and you go home and
• 20:37
  you leave a mess in your kitchen or garage or wherever you're
• 20:40
  doing it. It's not quite like that.
• 20:42
  So there's a little adjustment there.
• 20:44
  No, but yeah, no. And it's just it's been a great,
• 20:47
  it's been awesome to be part of it.
• 20:50
  And like I said, I mean, you know, when we started out, there
• 20:54
  was only a handful of us. We had lunch together every
• 20:56
  single day. Fred treated us.
• 20:59
  Heck, are, you know, still, as it sounds, a brewery has air
• 21:03
  conditioning. So you're not there on the
• 21:04
  summer. You're not like, you know,
• 21:06
  sweating so bad you don't want to go in.
• 21:08
  You know, we just we looked forward to going to work every
• 21:10
  day because we got to do what we enjoyed to do, which was make
• 21:13
  great beer. And then when you see when
• 21:18
  you're out and about and you see something that you were part of
• 21:20
  at a bar or you hear someone talking about it that doesn't
• 21:23
  know who you are, I mean, it just makes it that much even
• 21:25
  that much better. So it's been, it's been awesome.
• 21:28
  It's been, it's been great. Obviously, there's been lots of
• 21:32
  ups and downs in the industry, heck in the world in general.
• 21:35
  And Fred's been more than accommodating and helpful in all
• 21:38
  our various situations. And I just, I can't say thanks
• 21:41
  enough for the opportunities have been presented to myself.
• 21:45
  And I don't wanna speak for John, but I think in general,
• 21:48
  that's how the majority of our team that's been around.
• 21:51
  I mean, we've been here 14 plus years and we've got another
• 21:55
  round of folks that we kind of had hired in what, probably 10
• 21:58
  years or so ago. And we're like a family.
• 22:02
  We've had a few people come and go as life does for various
• 22:06
  reasons, but most of them we stay in touch and communicate
• 22:09
  with and see them out and things like that.
• 22:11
  So like I said, it's like been a big family we've built and
• 22:14
  Freddy's been the leader of it all.
• 22:16
  It's nice to hear you feel that way.
• 22:17
  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
• 22:21
  John, what about you? Yeah, it's, it's kind of
• 22:23
  interesting how I got started and why I never left.
• 22:26
  So what, I was going to college. I went to college when I was
• 22:29
  older, right? So I didn't even start till I
• 22:31
  was 25. And I had a there was this place
• 22:35
  across the street from where I lived in Akron, because I went
• 22:38
  to the University of Akron, much like Fred and Zachary there.
• 22:41
  There was a store called the West Point Market and they had
• 22:46
  Hop and Frog beer, these 22 ounce bottles.
• 22:48
  And I was like, what is this? And back then, this is 2000 and
• 22:53
  nine, 2010 somewhere in there I'm like, what is this?
• 22:56
  You know, it barrel aged Boris the crusher.
• 22:59
  OK, I'll give it a try, you know, and I'm like, I love this
• 23:01
  stuff. So around that time, around
• 23:03
  2010, I started dating my wife who had already knew about Hop
• 23:07
  and Frog because of the she loved the the Raspberry beer
• 23:11
  that Fred made a long time ago. And we don't make it anymore.
• 23:15
  But she got me into Hop and Frog and I graduated college.
• 23:19
  I was about to go to grad school.
• 23:20
  She's like, why don't you go and see if they need help?
• 23:23
  Like, you know what, you're right.
• 23:24
  I mean, because I'm always having people over.
• 23:25
  I'm always doing beer dinners at my house, bringing in new beers
• 23:28
  for people to try. I just, I fell in love with the
• 23:31
  beer industry back then because it was exploding with flavor,
• 23:33
  right? I grew up watching my dad drink
• 23:36
  in Old Milwaukee's Best. And then, you know, you
• 23:39
  transition to all of these stouts and then Hop and Frog
• 23:43
  doing barrel age beers and I was like, Dang, this is really cool.
• 23:47
  So I went in and nobody was there except for I believe her
• 23:51
  name was Brenda who was there from the beginning has helped
• 23:53
  Fred out. I bought some beers from the
• 23:55
  cooler that the one cooler they had came back another day and I
• 23:58
  met Fred's dad because Fred was running around busy.
• 24:01
  They were bottling and doing a bunch of stuff.
• 24:03
  And so I talked to Fred's dad for about 20 minutes left.
• 24:07
  Then he called me on the phone. Hey, why don't you come back for
• 24:10
  an interview? And I never looked back.
• 24:13
  I didn't know a lot about the mechanics of brewing.
• 24:17
  But like I, if anyone ever asked me if you're willing to go into
• 24:21
  a place and just do whatever they say, sweep the floor, take
• 24:23
  this over there, do this, do that.
• 24:25
  If you just listen to people and get every opportunity you can to
• 24:28
  help somebody, eventually they'll teach you things.
• 24:32
  And eventually our head Brewer Lee, was like, yeah, I guess I
• 24:34
  could work with him. Because if you ever met Lee,
• 24:36
  that's a compliment that that's a compliment, all right?
• 24:39
  He's not going to go pat you on the back and say, hey, you're
• 24:41
  doing a great job. He's like, yeah, I don't mind
• 24:43
  him. So.
• 24:45
  Great guy, he'll bend over backwards for you.
• 24:47
  But that's kind of how Lee is. And I just fell in love with it.
• 24:51
  I, I would and I never left. And I don't want to re state
• 24:54
  everything Zachary said, but it feels like a family.
• 24:57
  We take care of each other. We have a common goal and we
• 24:59
  love what we do. So when that happens, whether
• 25:02
  it's the good is great and the bad isn't so bad, right?
• 25:05
  Because, oh, you're all there working together to make it
• 25:07
  happen. You're such a unique goal we
• 25:09
  have. I like to describe it as
• 25:11
  ultimately we're selling fun, right?
• 25:13
  Because all this is fun. You know you drink these crazy
• 25:15
  beers. Oh what are you drinking?
• 25:17
  I'm drinking this re repeat 3X we made with Pete from from
• 25:21
  Pete's wicked ale. Look at that.
• 25:22
  Is that fun or what? It is fun, yes.
• 25:25
  We're selling fun. Just selling fun.
• 25:27
  Yeah, I think the thing that stood out when we came in in
• 25:30
  mid-May and we stopped in there and we were there for like an
• 25:33
  hour and a half because we weren't going up to Cleveland.
• 25:35
  And we did go to Great Lakes. You mentioned them earlier.
• 25:38
  We had a great time there too. And I love the variation of beer
• 25:43
  on your tap list. I mean, it was tremendous.
• 25:45
  I mean, I know I'm looking at my flight that I had and I got, you
• 25:49
  know, the Gangster Frog IPA, the Hoppin Pilsner, the Kicking
• 25:53
  BlackBerry Turbo Shandy Citrus Ale, which I really loved, and
• 25:57
  also the Smashing Honey Blonde. And so everything I got, I mean,
• 26:01
  I one of the, I'm going for a variation here today.
• 26:03
  And every single one of them, you know, were really fantastic.
• 26:07
  And the thing I'm curious about when you first started, Fred,
• 26:10
  how many beers did you start out with?
• 26:12
  I think it was four and one of them was made as a blend from
• 26:16
  two of the ones that we were making, the IPA and the stout
• 26:19
  blend them together and made night, you know, black and tan.
• 26:22
  So when we opened the doors we had 4 beers.
• 26:24
  Did you have a goal set at in in your mind?
• 26:27
  Did you have a goal where in a year from now I want to double
• 26:31
  the amount of beer that I'm doing or five years from from
• 26:34
  now, what was what was your goal for that or did you have one?
• 26:36
  My goal was to make sure that I didn't lose my house, which I
• 26:40
  had put on the line. That was my ultimate goal.
• 26:42
  Yeah, everything's centered around that.
• 26:45
  Make sure I had enough income. I put beer in my trunk and I was
• 26:47
  delivering it everywhere. I was calling everyone, doing
• 26:50
  everything I could to make sure I had enough income.
• 26:53
  How's the goal? The shandies and rattlers come
• 26:56
  later. Or is that part of your vision
• 26:57
  too, when you first started? Because they're a big part of
• 27:00
  your business. In 2009 we had a couple events
• 27:04
  at our place and at those events we had a light, easy drinking
• 27:08
  beer base that I used for a fruit beer.
• 27:12
  And where did it start? Might have been me, but we
• 27:15
  decided to stir in country time lemonade into that for the
• 27:19
  party. And everyone liked it so much
• 27:21
  they're like, well, you got to sell this.
• 27:22
  Like why can't sell that exactly, but I'll bet you, I bet
• 27:25
  you I can develop that by the looking at the ingredients on
• 27:28
  the list and saying, well, the biggest ones right there, it's
• 27:31
  the first one. I mean, I got to start with that
• 27:33
  and put a bunch in this beer and see how much else other things I
• 27:36
  need. That's where I started.
• 27:37
  I was able to reverse engineer country time Lemonade by looking
• 27:41
  at the first five ingredients. That's how I built to the
• 27:44
  flavors in the in the shandy. It's such a big, it seems like
• 27:48
  it's such a big deal for you guys.
• 27:49
  The shanty, that turbo shanty, is that a baseline for a lot of
• 27:54
  the other ones too? Is that Turbo the one that's
• 27:55
  kind of the baseline for all the others or a lot of the others?
• 27:58
  Yeah, yeah. It's a baseline for about 15
• 28:01
  beers we do right now, including some that even don't say shandy
• 28:04
  and they just, you know, supersede shandy.
• 28:06
  They, yeah, they're, they're better than shandy in a way.
• 28:09
  Like the pineapple upside down cake.
• 28:11
  Not a lot of people know that, but that's the shandy base.
• 28:13
  OK. When you taste that, you're
• 28:14
  like, Gee, it tastes. Like I've had that one, yes,
• 28:17
  it's really good. Yes, yeah, I had the recently,
• 28:22
  as a matter of fact, somebody shipped it to us.
• 28:23
  The peanut butter and Jelly. There you go.
• 28:25
  Yeah, Zachary's got. Zachary's got a whole cooler and
• 28:29
  stuff right there. I can't prepare.
• 28:31
  We'll talk about the beer, and Zachary just pulled it up.
• 28:32
  Yeah, I got one right here. Yeah, you were talking about
• 28:35
  that. Scott and I both had the peanut
• 28:37
  butter and Jelly turbo shandy. I'm very fascinated because we
• 28:42
  were just at a brewery last night that had a PB and J beer
• 28:45
  and there's a lot of different breweries now that are all
• 28:48
  catching on to that. Do you think this is a phase or
• 28:51
  do you think it's here to stay with the PB and J type
• 28:55
  collaboration beers? I think those type of beer ideas
• 28:59
  are here to stay, but is there like a trend where there'll be a
• 29:02
  PBJ for a while and then it'll go away?
• 29:04
  I don't know. I'll bet you people always be
• 29:06
  making that. It's like the, you know, some of
• 29:08
  these traditional flavors that people make.
• 29:10
  That seems traditional to me. What do you guys think?
• 29:12
  I think it's fascinating, you know, I think it's fascinating
• 29:16
  because it just, it seems like it just caught on maybe in like
• 29:18
  the last two years or so, at least in this area that I've
• 29:21
  kind of noticed. People are learning how to make
• 29:23
  these flavors that they really love from their childhood in a
• 29:26
  way, yeah. Yeah.
• 29:27
  I mean, you don't really know. I mean, there's, there's peanut
• 29:30
  butter beers out there that seem to stick and some that don't.
• 29:33
  And I think it could be very likely that you'll have peanut
• 29:36
  butter and Jelly beers around for a while, but only the good
• 29:39
  ones will stick around, right? Because if you get something
• 29:42
  that, and I'm sure you guys have experienced it, if it tastes
• 29:45
  like a novelty item, you do it once and you'll never do it
• 29:48
  again. You're like, OK, I did it, I'm
• 29:49
  done. I barely got through it.
• 29:51
  But if it tastes good, you'll come back to it.
• 29:53
  And I, so I think, I mean, I don't think they're going to
• 29:55
  dominate the market, but I think that there's a place for them
• 29:57
  and if they're done right, I think people enjoy that kind of
• 30:00
  stuff, you know? Yeah, and when they taste
• 30:02
  exactly like they say, that's a big thing, like like in this
• 30:05
  area, and you guys may have heard of them, is Zul XUL out of
• 30:08
  Knoxville do that PB and J, the mixtape PB and J.
• 30:11
  Yes, I haven't had it, but I've heard of it.
• 30:13
  Yes. That's it.
• 30:14
  That set the world, at least set this area on fire with the PB
• 30:17
  and JS and Southern Grist was doing 1 and now everybody's got
• 30:20
  one. And they just seem to be the, at
• 30:22
  least in this area, kind of the leader in that, you know, now
• 30:25
  they've done Peach and blueberry and grape and strawberry, and
• 30:28
  there are variations of it. And I think you're right,
• 30:30
  because they're so good, I think they'll be around for a while.
• 30:33
  And I've said this to Scott a few times, they're not often,
• 30:36
  but every once in a while maybe it's, you know, everything is
• 30:39
  subjective when it comes to beer.
• 30:40
  You go and you get one. You're thinking maybe maybe this
• 30:43
  is just flight worthy for me, Maybe it's a little bit too
• 30:45
  sweet, a little overpowering, and maybe I'd just rather have
• 30:49
  it on a flight rather than a 16 ounce can.
• 30:51
  And I think that I don't think that's a bad thing because I
• 30:54
  think that enhances your experience and maybe want more
• 30:56
  in the future. You know exactly what you want.
• 30:59
  And I've said this before with some beers, it's kind of like
• 31:02
  going into a restaurant and ordering a dessert and you're
• 31:06
  going, yeah, I got that molten lava cake that I'm gonna order
• 31:09
  for dessert. But after I get about half of it
• 31:11
  done, I'm like, all right, that's enough for me for.
• 31:13
  Tonight, Yeah, everything from like cinnamon roll to like you
• 31:17
  said, chocolate cake or brownies or anything.
• 31:20
  It's it's, it's all good stuff, but sometimes it can be rich.
• 31:22
  Right, right. And that goes back to those
• 31:25
  little cans that you've got. Yes, right.
• 31:28
  You know, if you give it to people in the proper portion
• 31:31
  size, you know, then they're not overwhelmed by it.
• 31:32
  Yeah, that's right. And they'll get drunk after they
• 31:34
  finish. They're not completely drunk
• 31:36
  when they finish the 16 ounce can.
• 31:38
  Like this little one? This re 3X it's only 15.6%, but
• 31:43
  it's also only 8 1/2 oz so no. Big deal.
• 31:45
  So all of your guys tolerance is probably pretty high because you
• 31:49
  consider getting a lot of the high ABV stuff all the time.
• 31:52
  I think that if you're in this industry long enough, hopefully
• 31:57
  you learn how to pace yourself. Yeah, that old.
• 31:59
  Rule right that's. It Some people learn, some
• 32:01
  people don't. If you've ever been to a beer
• 32:03
  festival, you'll see some people learn, some people don't.
• 32:06
  That's. Exactly right.
• 32:07
  I do often wonder how they can get so drunk on those little the
• 32:10
  little glasses that you get at a beer fest, but they manage.
• 32:13
  Oh yeah, it is that tolerance. Slam them down and low
• 32:16
  tolerance. Yeah, six of those, for some
• 32:19
  people is a lot. Yeah, they just aren't used to
• 32:21
  it, man. Just Kelly takes them by
• 32:22
  surprise. Yeah, they're thinking beer.
• 32:24
  Sure. Bang Bang, Bang, Bang Bang.
• 32:26
  Yeah, that's it. They're shooting up.
• 32:28
  A lot of times they seem shooting and like it's just a
• 32:30
  little bit. Yeah, it catches up, William.
• 32:33
  Darius, when you open in 2006, were there any other breweries
• 32:36
  that open in that area at that point in the Akron area?
• 32:39
  You know I'm. Thinking were there any around
• 32:41
  2006? No, but I think that, you know,
• 32:44
  my predecessor that I had started, you know, I cut my
• 32:47
  teeth at a local restaurant. They started their brewery about
• 32:50
  a year later because the restaurants closed.
• 32:52
  It was Thirsty Dog Brewing Company.
• 32:54
  They closed those restaurants. They about opened up about a
• 32:57
  year after I did in Akron also. And you know, we we've supported
• 33:01
  each other. I look at that like my alma
• 33:02
  mater. So, you know, just recently they
• 33:04
  would have keg caps from us and we just gave them some.
• 33:06
  They're they're, they're good, good people, good people.
• 33:09
  We love these guys. I just learned today and I shame
• 33:12
  on me, but I didn't know what Boris or Taurus or Chorus meant
• 33:17
  until actually when I was doing recycle.
• 33:19
  Wait a minute, There's a common theme here.
• 33:23
  We got to hear about it. We got to hear about it.
• 33:25
  I'll tell you where it started. It started with me going to the
• 33:28
  local brew pub and seeing RIS and asking what that meant.
• 33:32
  And they said it's a Russian imperial stout.
• 33:33
  So when I started making one at home and I started brewing, I
• 33:36
  called it Boris because it was a bodacious Russian imperial
• 33:40
  stout. So that's where the name came
• 33:42
  from. But when I started the brewery,
• 33:43
  the O took on a different meaning because I wanted to
• 33:47
  also, I guess, incorporate, but also take advantage of the fact
• 33:54
  that Sam Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout was so popular back then.
• 33:59
  Back in 2007, they used oatmeal. So I wanted to make Boris
• 34:02
  Bodacious Oatmeal Russian Imperial Stout.
• 34:04
  And that's what it is today. The oatmeal really adds a level
• 34:08
  of complexity to the beer that helps so much.
• 34:11
  So that's where the name came from.
• 34:12
  And then Doris's Double Oatmeal Russian Imperial Stout and.
• 34:15
  So on. We've got the Taurus and we've
• 34:18
  got the is it Chorus, I guess. Yeah, the weirdest 1 was chorus.
• 34:21
  I remember looking it up. I'm like, well, it is really a
• 34:23
  word. I guess I don't have to make
• 34:24
  that word up. I mean, I've never seen that
• 34:27
  word. I don't know if we'll make a 5.
• 34:29
  I don't know what the five one will be.
• 34:30
  I think we might have maxed out. And I'm not sure.
• 34:34
  I thought we came up with a name.
• 34:35
  I can't remember it off the top of my head.
• 34:36
  I forget but. Yeah, gets more challenging, but
• 34:40
  yeah, yeah. Take better notes when we're
• 34:43
  drinking. That's the hard part.
• 34:44
  Yes, and then know where you put the notes.
• 34:46
  That's the other part. I bet some of your company
• 34:50
  meetings are a lot of fun, Yes. Yeah.
• 34:53
  And then we'll look at each other.
• 34:54
  Are you writing this down? Yeah, really, right.
• 34:57
  Who's got this? Who's subscribed today?
• 35:00
  Everybody gets in these conversations and you're
• 35:01
  Spearing ideas. That would be a great idea.
• 35:03
  And that would be a great idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:05
  That's like the meeting's over here, like I don't nobody or
• 35:07
  anything down or we got nothing. I will say we do a pretty good
• 35:10
  job of writing stuff down. We do, yeah.
• 35:13
  We've learned. I think one of the awesome
• 35:16
  things though, is the conversation we're having about
• 35:19
  the names because and to me that especially if you come into the
• 35:23
  brewery, that also enhances the brewery experience where you're
• 35:26
  saying, OK, not only are you getting the shandy, I'm getting
• 35:29
  the shandy that, you know, bore us to this and that.
• 35:32
  And and I, I just think that adds so much more fun in that
• 35:35
  the dynamic to it that you want to stay and you want to have a
• 35:38
  good time. Versus just stout.
• 35:40
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is our snout beer.
• 35:42
  This is snout beer. Of your.
• 35:45
  Porter yes, I know. I always find it interesting
• 35:48
  when you go somewhere someone just names the beer, the style
• 35:50
  of the beer. And I'm like, you know,
• 35:52
  especially when they have other names for other things.
• 35:54
  I'm like, why did you try on this one?
• 35:56
  But. It's like this is our tasty
• 35:57
  lager. I'll tell you, names are names
• 36:01
  aren't as easy as it sounds. I mean, we're all sitting here
• 36:04
  spewing them off. But yeah, it's harder.
• 36:08
  And again, it goes back to writing them down because
• 36:10
  there's sometimes that we've had it where we've said something
• 36:12
  been like, Oh my gosh, that be a great beer name.
• 36:14
  You better write it down. We don't have a beer for it yet,
• 36:16
  but we'll come up with something.
• 36:18
  And then there's other times you got a beer and you're going
• 36:20
  golly, what do we call this thing?
• 36:22
  And we always try to incorporate what you're going to experience
• 36:25
  when you're drinking it. So that's the only like peanut
• 36:27
  butter chocolate coffee Porter, you know, peanut butter hazelnut
• 36:32
  caramel chocolate cake stout. I mean, obviously it's important
• 36:35
  to have that because then people are like, well, I should by
• 36:38
  reading that, you should know what you're going to experience
• 36:40
  versus Joe's beer. Joe's.
• 36:43
  Beer, Yeah. Great.
• 36:44
  That's how you get into it. But the funny part is I've, I've
• 36:47
  been places where people are like that.
• 36:48
  Sounds delicious. Yeah.
• 36:51
  What is it? What is the mystery?
• 36:54
  You open the can up and you find out.
• 36:56
  And barely Joe. Made it, was it?
• 36:58
  And it might be before all of our times, wasn't it?
• 37:01
  Billy Billy's beer? Was it?
• 37:03
  Yeah. Didn't it just say beer on the
• 37:05
  can back in the day? Yes.
• 37:06
  Or did it say Billy's beer might say.
• 37:08
  Billy's was a Billy's beer man. Oh, that's funny.
• 37:11
  That was Jimmy Carter's brother. In fact, I had AI had a great
• 37:15
  uncle. He had many, many years ago.
• 37:17
  He passed away and I was at a family reunion a few years ago
• 37:20
  and I'd asked one of his grandkids, as I said, is it true
• 37:24
  that when you're when your grandpa, It was my great uncle
• 37:27
  Howard. When he died, they were going
• 37:29
  through his house and they found Billy Beer in his refrigerator.
• 37:31
  And they said, Yep, that's true. Now I don't know if anybody kept
• 37:34
  it or not, but. Wow.
• 37:37
  It probably wasn't good to start with.
• 37:39
  I can't. Imagine.
• 37:42
  At least you kept it in the fridge.
• 37:44
  Yeah. There you go.
• 37:46
  Billy's Beer. Speaking of fridge, I'm gonna
• 37:48
  visit my fridge again. Yeah, I love that.
• 37:50
  It's handy. It's just right there, right?
• 37:53
  There's a few beers in there, yeah.
• 37:55
  All stocked up tonight. So you guys, you obviously
• 37:59
  barrel aged a lot of stuff. Is it a barrel aging program per
• 38:03
  se or do you just randomly say hey this would be really good in
• 38:06
  a barrel? Well, probably a little bit of
• 38:07
  both, yeah. I mean, it depends on what you
• 38:10
  mean by program. So we have beers that we make
• 38:14
  all the time, like barrel aged Boris, like that's a staple.
• 38:17
  We like, you know, there are certain beers that are available
• 38:20
  that have been barrel aged. And then sometimes we make a
• 38:23
  beer and go, you know what? We need to put that in a barrel.
• 38:25
  And so we do right there, barrel aged, Frogs hollow double
• 38:28
  pumpkin Ale. There is a barrel aged sextuple,
• 38:31
  there's a barrel. We've done the pen tuple in
• 38:34
  different barrels. We've done it in red wine
• 38:37
  barrels. We've done it in soddle barrels.
• 38:39
  We've done it in mezcal barrels. We've done it in a bunch of cool
• 38:43
  stuff because it lends itself well to that.
• 38:45
  So I guess we'll do some of that stuff.
• 38:48
  But then we do have mainstays that that we offer all the time.
• 38:51
  When did you guys get into the barrel aged barrel aging of
• 38:54
  beers? When did when did that start to
• 38:57
  catch on at Hopping Frog? I think it was 2008.
• 39:00
  I mean, it was way early, so just trying to remember.
• 39:03
  Hang on, let me think. The first barrels I got were
• 39:05
  from Cavalier. I didn't start working with them
• 39:08
  right away. It was after the Shandy came
• 39:10
  out. Shandy was developed, helped in
• 39:11
  2009 and 2010. The summer 2010 was the big cut
• 39:16
  off. I told my distributor that was
• 39:18
  around the whole state except for around the brewery, which I
• 39:21
  had another distributor. If you don't buy these guys out
• 39:23
  that around the brewery, they're going to never be able to be
• 39:25
  bought out because I'm not ready to release the shandy and
• 39:28
  everyone's been dying for it. It's going to take over my
• 39:31
  sales. So one thing led to another.
• 39:32
  It was 2010 and I was able to talk cavalier into carrying us
• 39:36
  across the state and they bought out the smaller distributor that
• 39:38
  was around us. Where is I going with this?
• 39:41
  So yeah, yeah, yeah. So with the relationship with
• 39:45
  Cavalier, we were able to hit, I'm pretty sure in 2011 was when
• 39:49
  we got the first barrel. So I'm pretty sure we started
• 39:52
  our barrel aging program in 2011.
• 39:54
  I hadn't really thought about that, but yeah.
• 39:57
  Yeah, wow. Do do a lot of times do you just
• 39:59
  come across barrels and we work backwards into the barrel as far
• 40:03
  as what was in it before, whether it be wine or whiskey
• 40:05
  or. Early on that was definitely
• 40:07
  what happened. There is time we formed some
• 40:10
  relationships with some different cooperages and as we
• 40:12
  were buying barrels and frankly at the time we were one of the
• 40:15
  few, it seemed that we're doing that.
• 40:18
  So when they would get something special, they'd usually reach
• 40:20
  out and say, Hey, would you guys be interested in.
• 40:23
  So for example, Pappy Van Winkle barrels and which now everyone,
• 40:28
  I mean, everyone knows what Pappy Van Winkle is now.
• 40:30
  But at the time I'm like, I don't know, sounds cool.
• 40:32
  I guess I, I don't know anything about it.
• 40:35
  So in my ignorance, I'm like, sure.
• 40:38
  Well, then I I well, I asked how much and they were really a lot
• 40:41
  more than usual. So I got a hold of Fred.
• 40:44
  We did a little research. We're like, oh, holy smoke.
• 40:46
  Yeah, these are actually we should get these.
• 40:49
  So I got back home and said, yes, we'll take them.
• 40:51
  So that is so that we that was that was a story where we got
• 40:56
  some barrels that we were definitely not seeking for.
• 40:59
  We were able to secure them one other time.
• 41:02
  And then after that needs to say they've become very hard to come
• 41:05
  by. But there's been other ones that
• 41:07
  are similar, similar type things where it's like, oh gosh, that
• 41:12
  would be great. And frankly, I mean, a lot of
• 41:15
  them Boris has gone into Boris is just such a great beer for
• 41:20
  that. And so we've had lots of
• 41:21
  different variations of Boris in different barrels.
• 41:24
  But then as we kind of brave John said, hey, something else
• 41:28
  other than Boris in a barrel might be good.
• 41:30
  Now we see a lot more than we got our pumpkin.
• 41:32
  We've get done shandy. I mean, heck, we've done shandy
• 41:34
  and you know, bourbon barrels. We've done shandy and tequila
• 41:37
  barrels. God I love shandy in in bourbon
• 41:41
  barrels. It reminds me of a whiskey sour.
• 41:42
  It is so tasty. Yeah.
• 41:44
  But the more popular one I think is the tequila barrel.
• 41:46
  One, the tequila barrel one, it's been very popular, but
• 41:49
  people, everyone, everyone's got their thing that they like,
• 41:52
  right? So I mean, as with anything,
• 41:54
  when you run out of it, of course there's a line of people
• 41:56
  that said they would have bought more.
• 41:58
  So I mean, you're going to have that.
• 41:59
  But yeah, but the, the, the market for that has definitely
• 42:03
  changed a lot in regards to getting barrels.
• 42:04
  It's got a lot more challenging, a lot more challenge to get
• 42:07
  those specific barrels and those we would say quote UN quote
• 42:10
  special barrels. So they're few and far between.
• 42:13
  But when they come, we we snag them for sure.
• 42:15
  You guys are at least known to us and probably to the to the
• 42:18
  crappier world that shanties like.
• 42:22
  I know you guys from Shanty's barrel aged and then the high
• 42:25
  the high grab barrel aged stuff too.
• 42:26
  That's kind of how I come to know you guys and then, you
• 42:28
  know, dive into the other stuff too.
• 42:30
  But is that kind of what you perceive for in the industry and
• 42:34
  the barrel aged stuff, the high ABV stuff or?
• 42:36
  I guess it depends on who you're talking to.
• 42:38
  Right. Yeah.
• 42:40
  I mean, at one point in time in the past, I think that was
• 42:45
  probably true for most people, but we've had, we have so many
• 42:49
  different beers and so many different flavors now that have
• 42:51
  reached so many different people.
• 42:53
  I, I think that people have realized that we, we can do a
• 42:57
  lot more than that. We can do that really well.
• 43:00
  We can do pilsners really well. We can do shandies really well.
• 43:04
  So at the end of the day, yes, we cut our teeth on stouts
• 43:08
  barrel aged high gravity beers, always known for quality.
• 43:11
  But to be honest, a lot of people talked to today, some of
• 43:14
  them haven't even tried those beers, but they love our
• 43:16
  shandies or they love our gangster frog or they they like
• 43:20
  the cool flavor combinations like our coconut cream pie or
• 43:23
  pineapple upside down cake. You know, they flock to those
• 43:25
  beers and you know, they might send other people our way that
• 43:29
  like that stuff, but we get a good mix that come into our
• 43:33
  tasting room. Hence like in January we have a
• 43:35
  stout day where we blow out huge party stouts like crazy.
• 43:40
  In the summer we got Shandy Day, you know, so we've got a huge
• 43:44
  party blow out with Shandy's exclusive flavors that we make
• 43:47
  there. So I guess that's the long
• 43:48
  answer to your question, but I think the expanse or the breadth
• 43:52
  of our portfolio reaches so many different people that I think
• 43:54
  we're known for a lot of different things now.
• 43:57
  All right, and I, I want to talk about something, one of your
• 44:00
  beers, Scott and I have this discussion every once in a
• 44:02
  while. We're rating beers or we're
• 44:04
  doing a podcast and we're talking about some of our
• 44:06
  favorite beers. And a lot of it is you remember
• 44:09
  where you were when you had a particular beer, right?
• 44:12
  So you mentioned the stout. So I remember I had this beer at
• 44:16
  my house. I think I had somebody send this
• 44:19
  to me in a beer trade. The evolution of Boris the
• 44:22
  Crusher, chocolate covered strawberry, the Russian imperial
• 44:27
  stout, 9.4%. I'm sitting in my house and I'm
• 44:31
  drinking this and I'm going, Oh my God.
• 44:34
  I mean, you talk about getting this right, like you talk about
• 44:38
  the the chocolate covered strawberry where literally the
• 44:41
  strawberry is going down and you can taste the chocolate just
• 44:46
  like if you were actually doing a strawberry dipped in
• 44:49
  chocolate. And I'm like, you got wow, man,
• 44:51
  this is I could have this all day, you know, and I'm going, Oh
• 44:55
  my God, that's just awesome. You know, and, and again, I
• 44:59
  think that goes into we love talking about the brewery
• 45:04
  experience, whether you go to a brewery or you're just drinking
• 45:07
  an individual beer and you remember it.
• 45:09
  And that's one that really stood.
• 45:10
  I mean, all the ones that I've drank that from, you guys have
• 45:13
  stood out for me. But that was one when you were
• 45:15
  just talking about Styles child, that really stood out for me.
• 45:18
  I'm glad it did and I, we really appreciate that we, we
• 45:23
  painstakingly make sure that if it says strawberry and chocolate
• 45:28
  on the beer label, you're going to taste strawberry and
• 45:30
  chocolate. I mean, we, we painstakingly
• 45:33
  make that happen because we are I I don't want to speak for Fred
• 45:38
  and Zachary, but I know, I know in my heart of hearts that we,
• 45:42
  we can't stand it when we pick up a beer and it says something
• 45:45
  on the label and you're searching for it.
• 45:46
  You're like, wait, what? What?
• 45:48
  Wait, where's the I? Guess I taste that strawberry.
• 45:50
  You're like, no, no, that's the way you brew.
• 45:53
  And then that's probably an added note to the conversation
• 45:56
  we were having earlier about the PB and J beers.
• 45:59
  I've had a couple of them over the over the last year or so.
• 46:02
  I'm going, no, I love peanut butter, but I'm going but I
• 46:07
  can't taste the peanut butter. All I'm tasting is a Jelly.
• 46:11
  And if it's in a 16 ounce can, I'm like, Oh my gosh, man, this
• 46:15
  is way too much. This would almost be too much on
• 46:17
  a flight if all I'm if all I'm tasting is Jelly, it's way too
• 46:20
  sweet for my. It sounds like 16 whole ounces
• 46:23
  of disappointment. I guess it's been the next half
• 46:28
  an hour trying to put this thing down a few.
• 46:31
  Oz suck now I got to drink the the rest of the 14.
• 46:35
  Zachary, I don't know what you just poured, but it looked
• 46:36
  fantastic in that glass. Oh, this is actually one of our
• 46:40
  Hebrews. Creates Little smoke and toad.
• 46:42
  Whoop whoop. Sorry, camera Porter.
• 46:45
  Look at that. Yummy.
• 46:47
  Nice. So it's A5 5% lightly, very
• 46:52
  lightly smoked Porter. Wow, that's amazing.
• 46:56
  Delicious. I wish that our head Brewer,
• 46:58
  Lee, that was his idea. I wish I don't.
• 47:01
  I don't have a sniff sniffer thing that gets a chase.
• 47:06
  On. Don't worry, AI will create that
• 47:07
  here very. Soon, Yeah, sure.
• 47:08
  Yeah. It's coming.
• 47:10
  It's. Coming.
• 47:11
  It's having these 44 conversations.
• 47:13
  So until then, I'll have to taste it and just tell you how
• 47:15
  good it. Is well, what kind of smoke is
• 47:17
  is the apple wood? I'm trying to imagine it Jerry
• 47:21
  wood. I forget what they smoke it
• 47:22
  with. It would be more like.
• 47:24
  I almost wonder if it's more more cherry.
• 47:26
  Yeah, I think it might have been Cherry I.
• 47:28
  Think cherry smoked? Yep.
• 47:29
  Yeah, that's Breeze malt for y'all.
• 47:32
  Nice. Yeah, I like that ABV on it too.
• 47:35
  That's nice. Well.
• 47:38
  That's new for us you. Know as some of these lower ones
• 47:41
  came, it was more cuz I think I mentioned it earlier, but our,
• 47:46
  our tasting room and our, our general manager that, you know,
• 47:51
  I mentioned a couple of times that hey, it'd be nice if we had
• 47:53
  something that wasn't, you know, 891015 percent.
• 47:57
  So that when, when people come maybe their friend or one of the
• 48:01
  people driving could at least have a beer.
• 48:03
  So, you know, after a while it took, it took him a while to
• 48:08
  convince us. And we're like, yeah, you know
• 48:10
  what? He's probably.
• 48:11
  Right. We don't want to though.
• 48:13
  Right, right. And so, and really the first,
• 48:17
  first one we, we downloaded that was that smashing honey blonde.
• 48:21
  When we made that blonde, especially honey blonde, which I
• 48:27
  mean, really we just, we were, the plans were just to have it
• 48:30
  as something on tap in the tap room.
• 48:32
  And then I don't know if you guys heard about the pandemic
• 48:35
  back in 2020. Something about that.
• 48:39
  But that caused, that caused us to have to do something other
• 48:42
  than keg all of it, which then, you know, we, we end up canning
• 48:46
  it and things along those lines. But then because of that,
• 48:48
  through distribution, we were able to enter it in the GABF and
• 48:52
  the World Beer Cup and World Beer Cup and won a silver medal.
• 48:57
  And then we, Fred and I were out in Colorado for the GABF, for
• 49:03
  whatever reason, decided to sit in the front row.
• 49:05
  I don't know why we did that. That was kind of silly on our
• 49:08
  part. But it was destiny because then
• 49:11
  the honey blonde won a gold, which was just awesome.
• 49:15
  I mean, just as you know, for, for a beer that we kind of
• 49:18
  created to to make for our tasty room fan.
• 49:21
  Now it's distributed everywhere and it's it's a.
• 49:24
  Great morning. Next morning with the GABF, they
• 49:27
  send an e-mail out to all everyone who's participated, all
• 49:31
  40,000 or what do they get? 10,015 thousand people a day.
• 49:35
  All these people got this e-mail and there were like 3 or 4
• 49:38
  pictures on it. One of them was Zachary and I
• 49:41
  with our gold medal. Nice.
• 49:44
  In the front row, it was. It was crazy.
• 49:48
  You're smashing Pecan Blonde Ale was the very first Hop and Frog
• 49:52
  beer that I ever had. And I can tell you when I had
• 49:56
  it, I was hooked. I was like, I gotta have more of
• 49:59
  Hop and Frog. Yeah, you guys hooked me.
• 50:02
  And you know, we were saying earlier when we stopped it is
• 50:04
  that when we stopped in your tap room mid-May, because we were
• 50:07
  coming up there, we were going to go to Cleveland, Great Lakes,
• 50:11
  Mass said. And we'd even said along the
• 50:13
  way, I said, while we're up there, I said, man, we have got
• 50:17
  to stop and hop and frog. And we came in there for like an
• 50:20
  hour and a half. Yeah.
• 50:21
  And you know, we should we, we really wanted to stay longer.
• 50:24
  We were just on a road trip. But I'm so honestly, I'm so glad
• 50:28
  we did because for me it literally, I don't say this just
• 50:33
  to be joking around. It was a bucket list brewery for
• 50:36
  me to go to. Having had your beer around here
• 50:38
  and having known what the history it was of you guys and
• 50:42
  how much beer I've had already. So, and I think Scott can say
• 50:45
  the same thing. 100% We talked about it in one of the episodes,
• 50:50
  but it was raining so harsh. I mean, you couldn't, we
• 50:55
  couldn't see the car in front of us.
• 50:57
  And I was like, if a car stops, if a car stops, we're all dead.
• 50:59
  You know, it was one of those kind of things, but like, Oh my
• 51:01
  God. But it was a welcome break too.
• 51:03
  We're going to Hop and Frog anyway.
• 51:05
  We're going to we're going to ride this rain out and we're
• 51:07
  going to drink some beer. And it was, it was just, it was
• 51:09
  perfect. Wow, nice.
• 51:12
  You know, I want to, I want to talk to you guys because I know
• 51:14
  you've mentioned it twice now, especially you, Zachary.
• 51:18
  How much have you, has your business had to evolve and
• 51:22
  change or has it had to change that much since 2020?
• 51:27
  Have there been a lot of changes for you guys in particular for
• 51:30
  since that time? I'm just going to touch on the
• 51:33
  fact that how is our business involved, John mentioned just in
• 51:38
  general, but John mentioned the 22 ounce bombers.
• 51:43
  I mean that if you, if you had told me, heck, 1012 years ago
• 51:50
  that we would not be in bombers anymore, I would have laughed at
• 51:54
  you and left the play. But like, no, we're going to be
• 51:56
  in bombers forever. But you know, that definitely
• 51:59
  obviously has changed. I think that the pandemic
• 52:04
  expedited the process by which we made that full transition.
• 52:10
  It actually gave us the opportunity to get our own
• 52:13
  canning line during that time frame.
• 52:16
  So, you know, that's definitely something that changed We.
• 52:22
  Is that nothing? Is that where the 8 oz cans kind
• 52:25
  of come into play? So you go the opposite direction
• 52:27
  in a sense. Right, right, right.
• 52:29
  Fine. We can't do 20 twos.
• 52:30
  We're doing eights. We'll show you those.
• 52:35
  We'll show you. But yeah, but yeah, we, I mean,
• 52:39
  we got a, we got a candy line. We, you know where our tap room
• 52:43
  was closed for extensive period of of time.
• 52:47
  Some of that was by choice. We I believe the word of the
• 52:53
  year was pivoted and we pivoted and had online sales.
• 52:58
  We operated a Dr. thru delivery service to folks who made orders
• 53:04
  online. We were kind of doing everything
• 53:07
  you could to just kind of help keep things going until we got
• 53:12
  through it all. Our staff, you know, we, we
• 53:18
  unfortunately, you know, with our tap room closed, some of our
• 53:20
  staff, we had to, you know, lay off and we had a couple people
• 53:25
  stay on just to help run that drive through line at night.
• 53:28
  And we, I mean, if it wasn't for our fans and our followers and,
• 53:34
  and the people that have grown to love us, you know, coming
• 53:38
  through some, if not daily, weekly, you know, we probably
• 53:42
  wouldn't all be sitting here today and having this
• 53:44
  conversation, but it was. Great.
• 53:46
  It was in a way because we had a lot of beer sales and virtually
• 53:49
  no cost, right, Other than the building.
• 53:52
  Yeah. So I don't know if it was a
• 53:56
  higher profitability, but it was just a weird, weird time, Yeah.
• 54:00
  But we've also heard from other breweries, you know, owners and
• 54:03
  breweries that you know, they've, they've pivot a little
• 54:06
  bit where maybe they're doing other lighter options now, maybe
• 54:10
  also some non alcoholic beer or whatever.
• 54:13
  Do you guys, do you guys feel any pressure to do that because
• 54:16
  or because you've been around for so long?
• 54:18
  You're like, you know, we, we have their reputation.
• 54:20
  This is what people expect from us.
• 54:23
  We are doing all the above. The ones that you mentioned, we
• 54:26
  have them on tap. So yeah, we've even tried
• 54:29
  seltzers, but those didn't taste that great.
• 54:31
  But we didn't put a whole lot into it.
• 54:34
  I mean, I think it's important. To constantly evolve bands to
• 54:36
  begin with? No, I'm sorry.
• 54:37
  No, no, I'm sorry. I I was just saying you got to
• 54:39
  constantly be evolving and adapting to what the market
• 54:45
  wants, what the customers are looking for.
• 54:48
  If you think you can just do the same thing every single day and
• 54:51
  you're not going to change and you think everyone else is going
• 54:54
  to change to you, then you probably won't be operating for
• 54:56
  very long. Yeah.
• 54:57
  I mean, I mean, the, the, the trick is and I, I, Zachary and
• 55:02
  I, we deal with pretty much all of our sales and then I help
• 55:07
  guide our sales team out in the market.
• 55:09
  And you know, at the end of the day, yes, you always have to
• 55:14
  evolve. But I think that what you need
• 55:18
  to do and what, what we're very conscious of doing when we do
• 55:21
  anything new is always making sure that it has the hop and
• 55:25
  frog flavor to it. I always tell people, you know,
• 55:29
  dare to compare, go ahead and take another oatmeal Russian
• 55:33
  imperial stout around 9%, put it next to ours.
• 55:35
  And I don't say this in a condescending, mean way.
• 55:38
  I'm just saying, go ahead and do this, you know, put it, put them
• 55:41
  together. And I guarantee you, you'll,
• 55:43
  you'll taste the hop and frog flavor each and every time.
• 55:46
  It, it, it goes back to what Fred was saying, right?
• 55:49
  It's about more ingredients. It's about creating this product
• 55:52
  where you, you don't want to lose your identity and what
• 55:55
  you're doing do do cool things, but make sure they know it's hop
• 55:59
  and frog, right? And, and so we've seen there
• 56:05
  are, there are breweries that have, you know, chase trends.
• 56:09
  And then before you know what, they're closed or they've got
• 56:12
  issues or, and you feel bad, you know, it hurts.
• 56:16
  You don't want to see anybody go under.
• 56:17
  You want to see people do well, but you've got to be true to
• 56:21
  yourself too. And we've also noticed other
• 56:23
  trends in the market. You know, we've noticed that
• 56:26
  people might not go out as much as they used to, or they want
• 56:28
  more of an experience, or they want, like you were saying,
• 56:32
  lighter beers or different beers.
• 56:33
  And we're adjusting to all those things.
• 56:36
  But we're doing it within the parameters of staying unique.
• 56:39
  Do you know what I mean? You're turning yourself and.
• 56:42
  We're not gonna stop making the stuff that we also are known for
• 56:45
  making. You gotta make beer you love
• 56:47
  too. If you're just making beer for
• 56:48
  other people, in my opinion, I don't know what you're doing.
• 56:51
  I mean, that's what that you want to know why I've been here
• 56:53
  for 14 years. Another part of it is because I
• 56:55
  love the beer we make. Yeah.
• 56:58
  And you know what, it's obvious that your formula is working.
• 57:01
  I mean, it really does. And that's, that's, that's
• 57:03
  really the the great thing about it.
• 57:04
  I'll tell you, you talked about canning earlier and the thing
• 57:09
  that really fascinated me when, you know, we were, we were
• 57:13
  researching and looking on your website and different things is
• 57:16
  that. But you can.
• 57:17
  And what is it? It's accurate on your website, I
• 57:20
  think 22 states in 40 foreign countries, Is that right, the
• 57:26
  canning that aspect of what you guys?
• 57:28
  Do that we distribute to yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 57:32
  I mean, we're, we're, we have definitely our global
• 57:38
  distribution company. I would.
• 57:42
  I really want to hear about how that has has really taken off,
• 57:46
  especially globally in that many countries.
• 57:49
  Isn't that crazy? We first got a request, I think
• 57:52
  it was November of 2007. Yeah, really early on for a beer
• 57:59
  from Sweden. And I kind of blew them off,
• 58:01
  like, no, we can't sell to you guys.
• 58:03
  Then, like, the next month, I got another request from
• 58:05
  Denmark, and it was during Christmas.
• 58:09
  And I had just read an article less than six months before
• 58:13
  about Denmark being this hotbed of craft beer.
• 58:16
  And they were behind, you know, the US by 15 or 20 years.
• 58:20
  But they're just catching on, and they're catching up, and
• 58:22
  they're just loving the crap out of it.
• 58:24
  And this person from Denmark contacted me.
• 58:27
  We still work with him. He ended up buying beer from us
• 58:31
  beginning in 2008 and by the end of 2008, the beer that he had
• 58:36
  bought, a bunch of which was Boris the Crusher, had had 100
• 58:40
  out of 100 rating on ratebeer.com.
• 58:42
  So he said I wanted, you know, 60 cases of that.
• 58:45
  And he bought a slew of other beers, but he bought a bunch of
• 58:48
  Boris if I can remember. And like once he got it, like 3
• 58:53
  months later, we hit a gold medal with that, the GABF.
• 58:56
  So it's like, Oh my gosh. And it's already overseas.
• 58:59
  So it got widespread distribution before, you know,
• 59:01
  we found ourselves in many states.
• 59:03
  So now I can say we've sold our beer as Far East as Japan.
• 59:09
  Well, now it's China. And then as far West as Hawaii,
• 59:13
  we recently sold to Hong Kong, which is technically China.
• 59:15
  So boom. So we're around the world,
• 59:18
  although it doesn't happen every year.
• 59:19
  I mean, we don't see our beer in these countries every year.
• 59:22
  We have made sales around the world in the last 20 years.
• 59:26
  It's pretty cool. We've talked to people and we
• 59:29
  talk about the distribution laws just between states, right?
• 59:33
  And there's that's another. It's like this stays better than
• 59:36
  we don't have. Time to talk about that.
• 59:38
  Right, but you guys are like, you guys are like, OK, not only
• 59:42
  do we do do do we do that hold my beer, we're going to ship it
• 59:45
  internationally. Here's a whole another set of
• 59:48
  problems I'm sure in in logistical stuff that came up
• 59:51
  and. Yeah.
• 59:53
  I mean, yeah. Exactly.
• 59:59
  Is this your life decorator? This one you.
• 1:00:02
  Know it's just, it's different. It's not, I don't want to say
• 1:00:07
  it's easier, but it's different. One, I mean, there's a couple of
• 1:00:11
  things that we work out with those other markets ahead of
• 1:00:16
  time to help make the process a little bit easier for us.
• 1:00:20
  So from that experience, I guess it makes it a little easier
• 1:00:25
  within the states. That's a whole nother yeah set
• 1:00:30
  of challenges that continuously changes.
• 1:00:35
  I actually just read today about a state where there's a huge
• 1:00:41
  festival every single year and there's some breweries that go
• 1:00:43
  there that don't distribute in the state normally but go there
• 1:00:48
  every year. And it's going to cost them what
• 1:00:50
  used to cost them. Nothing is not going to cost
• 1:00:52
  them like $1000 for that one day if they want to, if they want to
• 1:00:56
  do that and. You get licensing, special
• 1:01:00
  licensing. For the festival and all that
• 1:01:01
  kind of stuff. And it's, you know, festivals
• 1:01:04
  are fun, but yeah, festivals aren't profitable for breweries.
• 1:01:09
  And so, you know, it's going to impact those kind of things.
• 1:01:14
  And, you know, there's registration and I and I and I
• 1:01:17
  get it. You want to, you know, you want
• 1:01:19
  to have some like guidelines and things in place.
• 1:01:25
  So you don't want to be like the wild, Wild West of everyone just
• 1:01:28
  throwing whatever out there and then you got, you know,
• 1:01:30
  dangerous product or things like that.
• 1:01:32
  But the same token there's it's still a little archaic.
• 1:01:37
  Is it and we don't have to go down a rabbit hole, but with
• 1:01:39
  with the distribution to other states is ABV kind of the
• 1:01:42
  biggest thing as in certain states won't allow certain ABV?
• 1:01:48
  Couple. There are some.
• 1:01:49
  Yes, a lot, a lot of that has changed.
• 1:01:53
  I mean, there's AI don't want to say benefit of COVID, but I mean
• 1:01:57
  one of the things a lot some, some laws do get relaxed in some
• 1:02:00
  states where and that seemed to be the one that they kind of
• 1:02:04
  relaxed on a little bit. But there are some states out
• 1:02:06
  there that still have some limits.
• 1:02:08
  A lot of times ABV more impacts taxes than it does whether or
• 1:02:12
  not you're allowed to sell there.
• 1:02:13
  OK. Is, is do you guys have to deal
• 1:02:17
  with that directly or can you work with distribution and kind
• 1:02:21
  of let them bear some of that weight?
• 1:02:22
  I thought we weren't going down the rabbit.
• 1:02:24
  No, I'm just. Kidding.
• 1:02:27
  Which is a little side. Just a little.
• 1:02:28
  Side, no, no, no, no. I mean, obviously we're not self
• 1:02:33
  distributing in other states. I mean, as much as I'd like to
• 1:02:36
  go personally take beer to Hawaii once a month, that's
• 1:02:40
  probably not going to happen. But so we do work through
• 1:02:43
  distributors and then it's within that partnership that you
• 1:02:45
  work together to figure out, you know, who's going to be
• 1:02:49
  responsible for what. A lot of times that's dictated
• 1:02:51
  by the state. So, you know, the distributor
• 1:02:53
  might have taxes that they have to pay on the product they sell
• 1:02:57
  and then you don't, or you might pay the taxes and then the
• 1:03:00
  distributor doesn't. Or in some instances we all get
• 1:03:02
  to pay taxes. And in that aspect too.
• 1:03:06
  So it varies. And that's what makes it
• 1:03:08
  challenging is is there's, you know, 50 States and nobody has
• 1:03:13
  the same rules in regards to. Alcohol.
• 1:03:18
  And so when you are also dealing with other countries and oh.
• 1:03:21
  Here we go with the district. No, I'm not.
• 1:03:23
  I'm at This is a different question.
• 1:03:25
  This is a different. Question different.
• 1:03:26
  Rabbit hole. This is a different question.
• 1:03:27
  I'm going down a different rabbit hole.
• 1:03:28
  OK, No, I, I think this is a simpler one.
• 1:03:31
  When you're making the decision to send your beer to other
• 1:03:35
  countries, is it what you decide you're going to send to them?
• 1:03:40
  Do they request it? How, How does that, how do you
• 1:03:42
  make the decision of what you're going to send to them?
• 1:03:45
  Yeah, I guess that's a joint thing.
• 1:03:48
  I mean, we more kind of let them know what we would have
• 1:03:50
  available and then they pick from what we have available.
• 1:03:56
  Yeah, some are very specific and they may, oh, hey, we only want
• 1:04:00
  XYZ and so, OK, no, you know, we try to work, we try to be
• 1:04:04
  flexible and work with them. But yeah, it's more of a if.
• 1:04:08
  If they like it, we have it. We'll we'll find a way to make
• 1:04:11
  it happen. And I, and I think of the neat
• 1:04:13
  conversation that if I'm, you know, working in your brewery,
• 1:04:18
  all three of you guys, if you're just sitting there and all of a
• 1:04:20
  sudden somebody comes in from a country like Denmark and said,
• 1:04:23
  hey, by the way, I saw your kind of like us here in Tennessee.
• 1:04:28
  I was in Denmark and I saw Hop and Frog and I wanted to come to
• 1:04:33
  America to actually come to your brewery.
• 1:04:35
  That's. Happened I'm.
• 1:04:35
  Going to set you guys up with some stories.
• 1:04:37
  Oh yeah, no, that's, that's definitely happened.
• 1:04:40
  I've been in the I've been in the tasting room before when
• 1:04:43
  people have come through from other countries that tried our
• 1:04:45
  beer and you know what had in that country and we're planning
• 1:04:49
  a trip to the United States and purposefully, you know, decided
• 1:04:55
  to come through Akron, OH on their desk on their way to
• 1:04:58
  wherever they were headed. I mean, it, it happens a lot.
• 1:05:01
  It happens a lot. It's it's and every time it
• 1:05:03
  happens, you're just going. I mean, it's just, it's just
• 1:05:07
  wow. It's a.
• 1:05:08
  It's part of it is we used to be rated one of 100 best breweries
• 1:05:11
  in the world year in and year out by ratebeer.com.
• 1:05:15
  It was 17 years running. So those who
• 1:05:19
  frequentedratebeer.com, which were the beer nerds around the
• 1:05:22
  world, they knew of Hop and Frog.
• 1:05:24
  It wasn't just a couple years or four years or six years, It was
• 1:05:27
  17 years running. Yeah.
• 1:05:28
  And and and Fred, I want to really get your.
• 1:05:30
  Perspective on that as the owner, because you go back to
• 1:05:33
  2006, as you said, you're selling beer basically from your
• 1:05:37
  car, trying to grow this brewery and and do you ever sit back and
• 1:05:42
  go, wow, I've got beer in other countries like Denmark and
• 1:05:46
  people that come from Denmark to come to my brewery.
• 1:05:48
  I haven't done that lately, but I should.
• 1:05:53
  Yeah, I have of course, but. It has been a while.
• 1:05:56
  I need to I I need to kick back and think about that.
• 1:06:00
  That's pretty amazing. I miss going to Denmark.
• 1:06:03
  That's what I think about. Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  Let me go over there. That's pretty cool.
• 1:06:08
  Yeah. It's a great thing over.
• 1:06:10
  There brutal. Brutal with those.
• 1:06:12
  Guys over there is one of the best experiences.
• 1:06:13
  I learned tons of stuff from them but just being there and
• 1:06:16
  experiencing their culture was enough.
• 1:06:18
  It's just like amazing. But to learn stuff from them was
• 1:06:20
  just beyond. It is cool though, just
• 1:06:25
  somebody. From another part of the world
• 1:06:27
  recognizes your brand and sometimes you.
• 1:06:29
  Hey, we ship some stuff, right? OK, somebody wants it.
• 1:06:31
  But then somebody comes in the tap room and it's a person it's
• 1:06:34
  like, oh, you're you're real. You're not just a number.
• 1:06:36
  You're not just an account. We say you're a real person who
• 1:06:39
  actually really does appreciate it.
• 1:06:41
  Yeah, it really is endearing. It makes your whole.
• 1:06:43
  Week when something like that happens.
• 1:06:46
  Not the same thing, but we had a guy reach.
• 1:06:48
  Out the other day who is who listens to us in Australia and
• 1:06:51
  you know sometimes we see the numbers on Spotify and say hey
• 1:06:54
  you you got .001 listeners in this country in this country and
• 1:06:57
  this guy goes he goes I'm in Brisbane in Australia and I'm
• 1:07:00
  driving down the road listening to your podcast and he sent me a
• 1:07:03
  screenshot of his navigation system and our podcast on the
• 1:07:05
  thing oh that's awesome all right that's cool you know what
• 1:07:08
  I. Mean it was.
• 1:07:09
  A real person. And I was like, all right,
• 1:07:10
  that's a real person. It was a real person.
• 1:07:13
  Global, now global we're. On the way too I.
• 1:07:17
  Keep making the joke. I keep making the joke on.
• 1:07:19
  The podcast, you know, we got Australia, but I've made the
• 1:07:23
  joke over the past few months. I want to get that Antarctica
• 1:07:25
  check in. Yeah, well, I tell them the
• 1:07:28
  signal hasn't got to Antarctica yet.
• 1:07:30
  It's still. Still on the way.
• 1:07:32
  It's still on the way. That's awesome.
• 1:07:35
  They need beer down there, though.
• 1:07:36
  I'll. Bet Yeah, where's they have?
• 1:07:37
  Any God if you were. There you'd need.
• 1:07:39
  Something they have. To yeah, they're probably
• 1:07:41
  whisking. You got to warm up from.
• 1:07:44
  The inside right? That would help.
• 1:07:46
  Well your barely stuff would do that for sure.
• 1:07:51
  Guys, let's. Let's can we talk about your tap
• 1:07:53
  room 'cause you. Guys, look like you have an
• 1:07:54
  awesome. Tap room, we we've been in it,
• 1:07:56
  but you guys would talk about your events and things and, and,
• 1:07:59
  and one I saw this, you guys just had a, a greater, the
• 1:08:03
  greater accurate beer choir in the tap room.
• 1:08:06
  What is it? What is that?
• 1:08:07
  It was awesome. I was there singing along.
• 1:08:10
  With them it was insane. Yeah, it was so much fun.
• 1:08:15
  It was only a couple hours and it was only a it was, let me
• 1:08:20
  think it was a couple. It was a guy and a gal.
• 1:08:23
  Looked like they had done it a bunch.
• 1:08:25
  Didn't want any money for it. They just want to come to the
• 1:08:27
  brewery and hand out hymns or hymnals or whatever.
• 1:08:31
  They are just book booklets with all their songs and they wanted
• 1:08:38
  microphones and they wanted to hook up for their keyboard.
• 1:08:40
  So they were a little bit of a show couple.
• 1:08:43
  They got there and sung a bunch of beer songs and we're singing
• 1:08:46
  along with them. They're playing keyboards.
• 1:08:48
  It was great. It was a big old party and it
• 1:08:52
  was almost like, you know, it was, it was planned, but in a
• 1:08:56
  way it felt like it wasn't planned.
• 1:08:58
  It was cool. People really enjoyed.
• 1:09:00
  It was a Friday after work and people were carrying on.
• 1:09:02
  It was pretty cool. Just sing along.
• 1:09:04
  Whether they're like, like their songs that they.
• 1:09:06
  Had come up with like beer songs.
• 1:09:07
  Some were, yes, some were completely different ones.
• 1:09:10
  That they had drummed up from other song parts, I imagine.
• 1:09:14
  Yeah, I think some were also. I think some were also beer.
• 1:09:18
  Songs. That I just didn't know.
• 1:09:20
  I I think that they were out there that they knew about and
• 1:09:23
  they had us singing too. Or maybe they made-up, that's
• 1:09:27
  what. They made-up.
• 1:09:28
  And like a couple of. Them you could tell they took
• 1:09:30
  lyrics from a normal song and change it into a beer song and
• 1:09:33
  that was fun. So in general, they were just,
• 1:09:35
  you know, two hours of fun. It was really cool, man.
• 1:09:37
  That's awesome they've been. Offering for about a year or. 2
• 1:09:41
  And I finally said, yeah, you got to come do this.
• 1:09:44
  What the hell? Why are we not doing it?
• 1:09:46
  I would go for that. Totally.
• 1:09:48
  It was so cool. It was big fun.
• 1:09:51
  What? What other?
• 1:09:52
  Events do you guys do with the tap room because.
• 1:09:54
  On your website, you've got a whole bunch of stuff you guys
• 1:09:56
  do, man, The coolest ones coming up.
• 1:09:58
  What is it? August 20?
• 1:09:59
  3rd at Shandy Day. Yeah, OK, Shandy is.
• 1:10:02
  Twice a year we do Shandy. Day that's like, it's like
• 1:10:05
  Christmas. You guys do special Shandy's for
• 1:10:09
  that event? Yeah, we usually have about 16
• 1:10:11
  to. 18 Shandy's on tap and usually every year I tell her
• 1:10:20
  hey Brewer, hey just. A couple is fine.
• 1:10:22
  Don't stress yourself out over it, but he usually ends up
• 1:10:24
  coming with like four or five special shandies just for Shandy
• 1:10:29
  day. Sure.
• 1:10:30
  Yeah, those special recipes and. Register.
• 1:10:32
  Them with the federal government under the formulas and then
• 1:10:36
  under the the label. So it's a bit of a jumping
• 1:10:39
  through hoops. Oh yeah, it's fun, but there's
• 1:10:42
  some. There's some good creations.
• 1:10:43
  And actually that's where our we've, we can't with that mango
• 1:10:49
  cream pie he had this last time, we actually just made, you know,
• 1:10:52
  usually we just, we make him. And I mean, some of them are
• 1:10:56
  just not capable of being mass produced, you know, just for a
• 1:11:00
  variety of reasons. Usually it's cost because he, he
• 1:11:03
  spares no expense on the, on the ingredients.
• 1:11:07
  He's usually going all out, which is awesome.
• 1:11:09
  I mean, that is, it's a way to kind of say thanks to everybody
• 1:11:12
  and to give all our shandy fans something extra special and
• 1:11:15
  things along those lines. So, but we did make that mango
• 1:11:17
  cream pie smoothie, which was a huge hit and we actually did
• 1:11:21
  make it. And I believe if I could queue
• 1:11:23
  up Fred, I thought you got a can of it.
• 1:11:26
  Oh, I thought you had a can of it.
• 1:11:28
  Oh, I thought, what do you do? All right, take.
• 1:11:32
  Take two. OK, Yeah, we'll come back.
• 1:11:34
  Jeopardy music coming? In here, so that's.
• 1:11:38
  Where our first. Yummy.
• 1:11:40
  Packaged smoothie that we made. So I saw your post about that
• 1:11:44
  Fred too and as. Soon as I saw Yeah.
• 1:11:46
  Shit, I wish I could have that. Yeah, I guess I'm opening this
• 1:11:50
  one August 20. 3rd. I mean, there's still time.
• 1:11:53
  You can, you know, it's a Saturday.
• 1:11:55
  You could leave Friday night and be up because you want to be
• 1:11:57
  here early because we open at 11 and there's there's a line.
• 1:12:00
  It's good. Yeah.
• 1:12:01
  Oh yeah, Bet there is. Look at that.
• 1:12:05
  Look at that. It's like ice cream in a glass.
• 1:12:07
  He's got a Hoffbrau house. Glass.
• 1:12:10
  Oh yes. Oh yeah, nothing but the best.
• 1:12:12
  I wasn't, so I was. Going to bring this up.
• 1:12:14
  I was in Germany in. June and there's a lot of, and I
• 1:12:17
  was going to ask you this question, a lot of rattlers on
• 1:12:20
  the menus, A shanty and a rattler about the same thing.
• 1:12:23
  Is that the same thing? I think of them in the same
• 1:12:25
  vein, yeah. Yeah, because I was different.
• 1:12:30
  Yeah, I swear to God, and I'm not kidding, we were at a
• 1:12:34
  restaurant and there was this kid.
• 1:12:35
  He couldn't have been 10 or 12 years old in Germany and he had
• 1:12:40
  a porn and it looked like a beer.
• 1:12:43
  It probably was a beer. Yeah, it.
• 1:12:45
  Probably was people it. Probably was a beer.
• 1:12:48
  Or a or rattler or a shanty. Because they're like 3.8% or
• 1:12:52
  something. So they kid is drinking a beer
• 1:12:54
  sometimes. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:55
  And I think it's just part of their culture.
• 1:12:58
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I will say, yeah, shanty
• 1:13:02
  days the one of the biggest. Ones that mango cream pie
• 1:13:05
  smoothie that thing is insane. I I will tell you that.
• 1:13:08
  And I mean, we we do a lot of fun stuff.
• 1:13:11
  We have trivia on Wednesdays. We've got every Tuesday we have
• 1:13:17
  a beer infusion tower. We we take a beer, we add some
• 1:13:20
  cool ingredients. People can try it at the bar
• 1:13:22
  that day. I mean, we try to have something
• 1:13:25
  for for everyone, try to have a lot of fun.
• 1:13:28
  Yeah, Yeah, I saw. I saw that tower.
• 1:13:32
  Tuesday and I was like that. Looks incredible.
• 1:13:34
  What are some of the things that you you infuse with?
• 1:13:38
  I mean, they get pretty creative sometimes they.
• 1:13:40
  Do different like smoked teas, sometimes they get mint and
• 1:13:44
  sometimes they get chocolate in there.
• 1:13:46
  They've done crazy stuff with like jalapenos, they put bacon
• 1:13:50
  in there. I mean, it just depends on the
• 1:13:52
  beer. They come up with crazy stuff,
• 1:13:54
  you know, and it's fun. It's it is fun, Yeah.
• 1:13:57
  And it's just on. Tuesdays and it's just at the
• 1:13:59
  bar. It's it starts at around 3,
• 1:14:02
  people come in, grab some. We're open earlier than that,
• 1:14:05
  but that's that's about when the tower comes out.
• 1:14:07
  So we've got some friends and maybe you know them.
• 1:14:10
  They're Porch Beers USA. It's Keith and Coop.
• 1:14:12
  I don't know if you know those guys.
• 1:14:14
  They're out of Delaware. OK, Well anyway, they.
• 1:14:18
  Might recognize. Their faces you probably.
• 1:14:20
  Will they will. Drive when?
• 1:14:22
  Your blueberry turbo shanty comes out.
• 1:14:26
  They go. The minute we know it's
• 1:14:28
  available, they will drive 7 hours from Delaware to your
• 1:14:31
  place to go get it, he said. What they did that one time and
• 1:14:34
  there was like 1 if it was a case or or whatever it was left.
• 1:14:39
  But it's are you talking about the state of Delaware?
• 1:14:42
  Yeah, I was. Thinking of Delaware, OH for
• 1:14:44
  some. Reason I think I know who
• 1:14:45
  you're. Talking to probably too, because
• 1:14:47
  I remember someone talking about coming from Delaware.
• 1:14:50
  That's them. Yeah, they.
• 1:14:52
  Love that shanty so much. Yeah.
• 1:14:55
  Make sure we hook them up, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:57
  Yeah, poor Spears USA. That's.
• 1:14:59
  How? That's our buddies there.
• 1:15:01
  Yeah, that would have an extra case, so yeah.
• 1:15:04
  So you didn't. You didn't.
• 1:15:06
  Hear that here though? No, no, no.
• 1:15:07
  No, everyone's got to meet another Fred.
• 1:15:10
  Hey, I hear you. I have an extra.
• 1:15:11
  Case. Well, I already gave it away the
• 1:15:13
  first person. You guys should have got.
• 1:15:17
  Here 6 1/2 hours ago. Because I know we're running.
• 1:15:22
  It's we're pushing an hour and a half.
• 1:15:24
  You guys have lives. We get it.
• 1:15:25
  But can we can we ask a couple more and we'll Sure.
• 1:15:29
  Yeah. You.
• 1:15:31
  I had something. I had something queued up.
• 1:15:34
  Shit, I lost it. Yeah, I just opened.
• 1:15:37
  Myself up a mango cream pie. Smoothie, I'm not going anywhere
• 1:15:42
  I could. Step in for you, Scott.
• 1:15:43
  Yeah, Yeah, go ahead. I.
• 1:15:44
  Got it lined up. Yeah, go ahead.
• 1:15:45
  I got you. Got it.
• 1:15:46
  OK. Yeah.
• 1:15:46
  So I'm curious. What, what do you guys, if
• 1:15:50
  anything, do you have any expansion plans in the future?
• 1:15:53
  I mean, you're at that location in Akron.
• 1:15:56
  Is there any plans for expansion there anywhere else?
• 1:15:59
  Anything that you can talk about on the podcast?
• 1:16:01
  Any breaking news that you want to tell us exclusive?
• 1:16:04
  Nothing solidified, but we sure. Like to I mean, I don't know how
• 1:16:08
  much we we want to right? I mean, I guess it's always, I
• 1:16:11
  mean, that's always something that worth.
• 1:16:13
  Considering and considering to look at, but there's so many
• 1:16:15
  factors that fall into there. If it's the right place at the
• 1:16:19
  right time and it makes sense, I don't think we would say no.
• 1:16:24
  But I mean, that's kind of where I mean our brewery itself is,
• 1:16:28
  you know, where it's at is expanded about as as much as it
• 1:16:31
  can expand. Yeah.
• 1:16:34
  So I I could say I don't think they'll be in the expansion
• 1:16:37
  plans there, but you know of other opportunities in the area
• 1:16:41
  where to present themselves. We definitely would consider it
• 1:16:43
  for sure. But am I right though at that
• 1:16:46
  location? Sorry, Scott.
• 1:16:47
  Am I right at that location where you have your brewery, you
• 1:16:50
  also do the brewing there and you do the packaging and
• 1:16:53
  shipping there at the same location?
• 1:16:54
  Yes, every We have one we have. One location, one at 1 address,
• 1:16:58
  one location. So we have our brewery and then
• 1:17:00
  the canning area is attached in the next unit from there and the
• 1:17:03
  next unit's kind of like our storage and we have a warehouse
• 1:17:07
  cooler and then the next one's the tap room that you guys all
• 1:17:10
  had a chance to kind of hang out in and enjoy.
• 1:17:12
  And then the the next room from there is our, you know, a little
• 1:17:16
  bit extra seated where a barrel room is and then some storage
• 1:17:20
  space in the back and that and then we utilize some other units
• 1:17:23
  for storage, but we're all in that central spot, which is nice
• 1:17:27
  because everything is like right there.
• 1:17:28
  So that's like one of the things you got to consider if you're
• 1:17:30
  like, oh, this, let's open up another spot.
• 1:17:32
  There's like, but we got to go back and forth all the time.
• 1:17:34
  So I mean, there's, I mean, there's so many things that that
• 1:17:38
  keep in mind, but you got to make enough fear for the other
• 1:17:41
  place and stuff, right? Right.
• 1:17:43
  I mean, right. It's it sounds fun.
• 1:17:47
  But, you know, the actual implementation and operation and
• 1:17:51
  that can be challenging. And at the same time, we don't
• 1:17:53
  want to lose what what we've got by being, you know, overly
• 1:17:57
  focused on something else or distracted or, you know, when
• 1:18:00
  you stretch yourself too thin, that's where we've seen some of
• 1:18:04
  our brethren have some challenges.
• 1:18:06
  And so you got to be mindful of that.
• 1:18:09
  I'd like the character of the whole outline.
• 1:18:11
  When we went in there, I mean the character of all of it I
• 1:18:14
  thought was just cool, you know, and the frogs out and and the
• 1:18:17
  the front and all of it. And you know, as you were
• 1:18:20
  talking about expecting the we were talking about the expansion
• 1:18:23
  into other countries earlier. Has that, has that meant more
• 1:18:28
  expansion inside your shipping areas and stuff like that too
• 1:18:33
  Over the years, has has that changed at all?
• 1:18:35
  I mean, I guess a little bit. I mean, the biggest thing I.
• 1:18:37
  Think from expansion point has been just an additional, adding
• 1:18:40
  additional fermenters so just so we can add more tank space and
• 1:18:43
  have more beer being in process at the same time.
• 1:18:47
  And that, you know, that that first expansion is really how
• 1:18:50
  John, myself, Lee, you know, 15 years ago when Fred started
• 1:18:56
  getting some additional tanks, that's when it was like, OK, you
• 1:19:00
  know, he needed some additional help.
• 1:19:01
  And that's kind of where we came aboard.
• 1:19:03
  And then what, probably five years or so after that, we added
• 1:19:07
  the last round of tanks that we put in just to kind of help make
• 1:19:12
  sure that we have the capacity we need to continue to grow into
• 1:19:16
  the future. And we're not maxed yet.
• 1:19:20
  So I mean, we have opportunity to growth and you know, we
• 1:19:24
  operate one shift with, you know, we, we have 3 Brewers one
• 1:19:27
  shift. There's ways that you can expand
• 1:19:30
  without having to add on more stuff if you really wanted to.
• 1:19:34
  But you know, we're, we're looking more just to continue to
• 1:19:37
  put out a great product and kind of naturally grow, not do
• 1:19:39
  anything like so crazy, especially in this, this
• 1:19:42
  climate, right? I mean, the, the, the craft
• 1:19:45
  brewed industry has, you know, changed and evolved and, you
• 1:19:49
  know, having this massive, you know, huge brewery doesn't
• 1:19:52
  necessarily make sense these days.
• 1:19:54
  And having those, oh, go ahead, go.
• 1:19:57
  Ahead, John. No, I was going to say.
• 1:19:58
  When your growth is more organic.
• 1:20:00
  And not debt heavy. You get the chance to, as we
• 1:20:03
  were talking about earlier, produce some of the beers you
• 1:20:06
  want to make too, along with the market trends you're not just
• 1:20:10
  beholden to. We have to pump out beer whether
• 1:20:13
  it's great or not. And we got to get sales.
• 1:20:15
  Everyone needs sales, don't get me wrong, but you have more
• 1:20:18
  control over what your brand's going to be rather than holy
• 1:20:23
  crap, hang on to my seat, let's get it all out there.
• 1:20:26
  So there is something to be said about about that as well.
• 1:20:32
  Yeah, you're kind of dictating what?
• 1:20:33
  You're what? You're doing in a sense what you
• 1:20:36
  can produce and what you want to produce in a sense because you
• 1:20:40
  having those additional. Fermenters in the canning line
• 1:20:42
  has got to. Be helpful, right?
• 1:20:43
  Because and I know this, you could store stuff in the can in
• 1:20:47
  the, in the fermenters if you need to or if you need that
• 1:20:49
  fermenter, you just go ahead and can it when it's ready, right?
• 1:20:52
  And you can free up that stuff too.
• 1:20:53
  So it's, I mean, what you're talking about the biggest
• 1:20:55
  benefit or the biggest? Addition that we added is when
• 1:20:58
  we added the canning line it took you know, it made that
• 1:21:01
  transition to all cans and not 22 ounce bottles.
• 1:21:04
  So to put in perspective, the, you know, what took us
• 1:21:08
  essentially 7 day, like a full week 7, you know, 6-7 days to,
• 1:21:13
  to bottle at that time, we can now can in a day.
• 1:21:17
  So I mean, when you, when you look at that, just being able to
• 1:21:20
  empty the tank set, that was the biggest hang up for us was,
• 1:21:23
  well, our tanks are full. We can't put any more beer in
• 1:21:25
  and our tanks are full because we can't package it fast enough,
• 1:21:28
  right? We, you know, you got rid of
• 1:21:30
  that, that, that, that pinch point in the whole process and
• 1:21:34
  opened it up. And so now it, you know, allows
• 1:21:36
  us to have more flexibility and having our own canning line
• 1:21:40
  versus, you know, we did start out with a mobile canning
• 1:21:42
  company, which was, was great because it was a great way to
• 1:21:46
  go. OK, is this going to actually
• 1:21:47
  work and make sense before we invested something, but then it
• 1:21:51
  was still challenging too, because you had to coordinate
• 1:21:53
  with them and what day of the week it worked with them to be
• 1:21:55
  able to come. I mean, there's someone where
• 1:21:57
  now it's like we control the whole part of the process.
• 1:22:00
  And so not only are we ensuring that every step of the process
• 1:22:04
  is under our domain for quality and care, but then we can also,
• 1:22:09
  you know, if we need to only put out 10 barrels, we can do a
• 1:22:12
  small batch or small run if that's what we need to do, sure.
• 1:22:15
  Or we can do a large run. You know, we kind of dictate all
• 1:22:18
  that. So hey and I do want to add
• 1:22:20
  something about your. Cans and can art and we've
• 1:22:23
  talked about can art with other breweries.
• 1:22:26
  The one thing, the thing, and probably probably because of the
• 1:22:28
  frog, but often frog certainly stands out to what it can.
• 1:22:31
  But I love it how easy it is to spot your cans when you go into
• 1:22:36
  a place and and I think that is so important because you can go
• 1:22:41
  into a place and you're going, OK, wait a minute, where am I?
• 1:22:45
  I can't find this mirror. Can't find this mirror and
• 1:22:48
  hopping frog right in front of me.
• 1:22:52
  Yep. I've hoped.
• 1:22:54
  Friends for a long time, that's. What I was trying to do, I mean,
• 1:22:57
  I got into this really early on and that's one of the focuses
• 1:23:01
  that I've had is I want to be recognized on the shelf within a
• 1:23:03
  quarter second. You're looking at 1000 or 600
• 1:23:06
  beers. I want you to say, oh wait, I
• 1:23:08
  want your eye to just automatically stop.
• 1:23:10
  I've seen it before. What is that?
• 1:23:11
  I, you know, that's, that's something of interest.
• 1:23:15
  So thank you. That's what I was hoping.
• 1:23:17
  That's why we haven't changed the logo.
• 1:23:19
  And there was pressure to change the logo, you know, from
• 1:23:22
  internal pressure because we know you get so used to seeing
• 1:23:24
  the, the frog face. It's like, you know, let's
• 1:23:26
  update this shit. So we finally did it.
• 1:23:29
  We did all the work. And then I had a I'll just
• 1:23:33
  describe this person as a very senior marketing person.
• 1:23:36
  Ask me, why in the world would you be doing that?
• 1:23:38
  Is there something wrong with your brand?
• 1:23:41
  Like, well, no, yeah, we just want to update it.
• 1:23:45
  And they describe that to be a common feeling with businesses.
• 1:23:50
  It's just the way things are. But you got to look at your
• 1:23:53
  brand, and if there's a problem with it, then you need to change
• 1:23:55
  the logo. But if not, then you should
• 1:23:56
  continue to use it. So that's nice to hear that you
• 1:23:59
  that you still recognize our stuff after nearly 20 years
• 1:24:02
  being on the shelf. Yeah.
• 1:24:03
  I mean, I don't know if this is a great comparison, but it would
• 1:24:05
  always. Be like McDonald's saying let's
• 1:24:07
  just change our arch. Why don't you want to do that?
• 1:24:09
  It's right. It's been it's been the same
• 1:24:11
  things for for decades. So yeah, because everyone, you
• 1:24:15
  know, fighting for business. Whether it be McDonald's or us.
• 1:24:18
  Yeah. Well to to your point, I knew
• 1:24:21
  like. I knew in the in the liquor
• 1:24:22
  store where these were, but they have A and these were all like
• 1:24:25
  on the, the, the warm shelf right there on the other side.
• 1:24:28
  Then they weren't in the cooler, but they had some in the cooler.
• 1:24:30
  And I know I can go to the cooler where they have singles
• 1:24:32
  and scan up and down really quickly to find yours.
• 1:24:35
  It's very easy. Like I know they got some over
• 1:24:38
  here. Boom, got it.
• 1:24:40
  Awesome. Thanks.
• 1:24:42
  Yep, yeah, absolutely. It helps a lot.
• 1:24:44
  Because a lot of times we move forward with these ideas.
• 1:24:46
  That I have and a lot of them are antiquated so I I need to at
• 1:24:50
  least be being able to figure out whether they're actually
• 1:24:53
  still working or not because a lot of my ideas I recognize are
• 1:24:55
  are old school and they they need to be updated yeah Fred I'd
• 1:25:00
  like to ask you this and we because.
• 1:25:01
  We asked these. Guys early on kind of about
• 1:25:03
  their work environment stuff How important you know, it's kind of
• 1:25:07
  a rhetorical question, but how important is your team to you
• 1:25:11
  and for what they do in the brewery and into your to the
• 1:25:14
  success of the brewery how could I possibly I mean answer that
• 1:25:18
  any. Differently.
• 1:25:19
  I mean, my gosh, they're essential.
• 1:25:22
  You can't do what we're doing without them.
• 1:25:25
  I mean, they are the business. I could go away and things would
• 1:25:29
  still keep going. So yeah, they're essential.
• 1:25:32
  Can't do it without them. Yeah.
• 1:25:35
  I mean, what? How can you put it any other
• 1:25:37
  way? Right?
• 1:25:37
  Yeah, and and you know. The longevity you guys have had
• 1:25:41
  19 years come up with 19 years, it's a testament to all of you
• 1:25:44
  guys and your whole team. Well, I was going to say, yeah,
• 1:25:47
  it's not there's. There's many that are not on,
• 1:25:51
  you know, have the opportunity to be on the screen if you will,
• 1:25:55
  and, and, and talk about this, but you know, it's a, it's a,
• 1:25:58
  it's a team effort. It truly is, yeah.
• 1:26:03
  There's ideas and things that come up, but, you know, it's
• 1:26:05
  everyone working together to make sure that the, the goal is
• 1:26:08
  met and the, the vision is exceeded.
• 1:26:11
  And, and everyone, you know, takes great satisfaction and
• 1:26:14
  pride and, you know, and, and hearing when people say, Oh my
• 1:26:17
  gosh, I love your beer. Or I, you know, I had so much
• 1:26:20
  fun in the tasting room last night.
• 1:26:21
  So, and so it was great. Or, you know, whatever the case
• 1:26:24
  may be and maybe means a lot to everyone.
• 1:26:26
  And they, they come to work every day, you know, with great
• 1:26:29
  pride and, and, and things on those ends.
• 1:26:31
  And we couldn't you know, it's a definitely A-Team effort by for
• 1:26:34
  sure. Well, hopefully when this
• 1:26:37
  podcast comes out they. Can listen to it and hear that
• 1:26:39
  they're being recognized because really it's one of our goals
• 1:26:43
  when we started this podcast to champion breweries to talk about
• 1:26:47
  what you guys do and the great work that you're doing and you
• 1:26:50
  know our experiences and our adventures as well so we we
• 1:26:54
  certainly appreciate it That's awesome thanks yeah that's great
• 1:26:58
  it's. Totally big fan you guys thank.
• 1:27:00
  You. Absolutely.
• 1:27:02
  I know we're winding down. Is there?
• 1:27:03
  Anything we didn't cover or anything you guys want to talk
• 1:27:06
  about or plug or anything coming up or maybe like Steve said
• 1:27:10
  earlier, maybe some, you know, some inside information about
• 1:27:13
  something coming down the road or that, you know, some
• 1:27:15
  exclusives. Oh gosh.
• 1:27:19
  You put us on the spot there and.
• 1:27:21
  The answer because we know I just want to.
• 1:27:23
  I just want to make. Sure, we don't all give away a
• 1:27:24
  different. Secret.
• 1:27:25
  Oh yeah, yeah, no. No, Hey, I I just want to say
• 1:27:31
  thanks for Theo. Thanks for having us.
• 1:27:33
  I mean, I'll, if it wasn't obvious, this is my first
• 1:27:37
  podcast I've been part of. So this has been this has this
• 1:27:40
  has been fun and I wasn't sure what to expect, but I really
• 1:27:45
  appreciate you guys taking the opportunity or taking the time,
• 1:27:48
  I should say, to give us the opportunity to just kind of
• 1:27:51
  share a little bit about us. And thanks for coming to our
• 1:27:55
  tasting room. Hopefully we'll we'll see you
• 1:27:57
  again. Shandy Day, August 23rd.
• 1:27:59
  There you go. A little plug or or if you're
• 1:28:01
  interested, we have a. Clam bake.
• 1:28:03
  That'll be at the end of September.
• 1:28:05
  So but yeah, so, you know, just thanks and thank everyone who's,
• 1:28:11
  you know, tried our beer. And if you haven't, please give
• 1:28:13
  us a try and let your taste buds be the judge.
• 1:28:17
  That's 100% yeah. Drink.
• 1:28:20
  The beer drink the beer you. Love, you know.
• 1:28:23
  It and I I can't say that the people enough and I appreciate
• 1:28:28
  what you guys are doing by kind of humanizing the industry in a
• 1:28:32
  way and so to get people to see the people behind the things
• 1:28:36
  they love you know what I mean to make that human connection
• 1:28:39
  and and they'll go back and go yeah, that's that is amazing
• 1:28:43
  beer and and I appreciate what those guys are doing and we
• 1:28:46
  appreciate our fans more than you know I mean our our sales
• 1:28:51
  guys in the field all the time we are known as the brewery that
• 1:28:54
  is the easiest to work with. We will bend over backwards for
• 1:28:58
  for our our vendors, our distributors, for people out
• 1:29:01
  there really trying to spread the love because we believe, we
• 1:29:05
  believe in this product. I mean this, this stuff what we
• 1:29:08
  do like Fred said earlier, I mean it's we're selling
• 1:29:11
  happiness and we want people to be happy.
• 1:29:13
  So, so thank you guys for what? You're doing.
• 1:29:17
  Well, thank you for that. And it's, it's really some
• 1:29:19
  honor. For for all three of you guys to
• 1:29:20
  even want to come on it it's it's a big deal to us too.
• 1:29:23
  So we really appreciate you guys being with us.
• 1:29:26
  Yeah, no problem. Gosh, look.
• 1:29:28
  We're just a couple of beer. Drinkers.
• 1:29:30
  We're nobody. I'm telling you we don't.
• 1:29:33
  We're not. We're not professional.
• 1:29:34
  We're just drink beer and we travel around and we and we go
• 1:29:36
  to places and we just like to talk about it.
• 1:29:38
  But you know what? You're you're our fans and that
• 1:29:40
  means a lot. So.
• 1:29:41
  Thanks. Yeah, right.
• 1:29:42
  Thank you for that. You know, that's, that's we
• 1:29:45
  don't think of ourselves as much different, I mean.
• 1:29:47
  We're just beer drinkers too, man.
• 1:29:49
  Yeah, there you go. We just.
• 1:29:51
  Sometimes get to drink the beer first.
• 1:29:53
  I mean. That's really the biggest, the
• 1:29:55
  biggest difference, right? And we're only doing that to
• 1:29:58
  make sure that it's the absolute.
• 1:29:59
  Best by the. Time you get the chance to try
• 1:30:01
  it right, right quality we have a responsibility right you have
• 1:30:04
  to have. Right, you can't put any crappy
• 1:30:05
  stuff out. There you have quality control
• 1:30:07
  exactly when it gets to the mass job, but someone's got to do it.
• 1:30:11
  It is we. Don't drink all day, but we do
• 1:30:13
  drink. Yeah.
• 1:30:17
  Just part of the job. Guys, I'm going.
• 1:30:20
  To raise my beer to you all. And thank you for a great night.
• 1:30:25
  Thank you for a great brewery experience.
• 1:30:27
  When we came to hop and. Frog and so many more to come.
• 1:30:30
  And thanks for being on our podcast tonight.
• 1:30:32
  Thanks for having us. We're even bigger fans.
• 1:30:35
  Now hop. And fro Brewery on the.
• 1:30:37
  Brewery on the Ground podcast. Cheers everybody.
• 1:30:39
  Cheers. Cheers to great beers.
• 1:30:41
  Cheers. Awesome.
• 1:30:44
  Thanks. Guys.