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How Gen Z in India turned an insult into a political uprising · The Morning Edition

0:07
S1: Gen Z in India are rebelling. Millions of young Indians
0:11
S1: have signed up to a movement that's pushing against the
0:14
S1: unfair advantages that their elders have, and they don't. And
0:18
S1: though the political movement they've joined is satirical, the Cockroach
0:22
S1: Janta Party has the Indian government worried? I'm Samantha Selinger
0:28
S1: Morris and you're listening to Morning Edition. From The Age
0:31
S1: and the Sydney Morning Herald today, international and political editor
0:35
S1: Peter Hartcher discusses how serious a threat this movement is
0:39
S1: to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the other recent
0:43
S1: youth led movements that have toppled governments. Welcome back Peter.
0:51
S2: Pleasure to be here, Samantha.
0:53
S1: Okay. I can't wait to get into this with you
0:55
S1: because Peter India has a new political superstar and it's
0:59
S1: a cockroach. What is happening?
1:03
S2: Yes. Well, this sort of came out of nowhere as
1:06
S2: of the time we speak. This happened only 11 days
1:09
S2: ago in India, and it started in a very sort
1:13
S2: of unexpected way when the Chief Judge of India likened
1:17
S2: unemployed youth to cockroaches.
1:20
S3: There are youngsters like cockroaches. They they they don't get
1:24
S3: any employment. They don't have any place in profession.
1:26
S2: It turns out that sentiment was already running high. Frustration
1:31
S2: was already strong. And so an Indian, uh, postgrad student
1:36
S2: who happens to be living in the US jumped on
1:39
S2: that remark and started created a satirical political party called
1:46
S2: the Cockroach Janta Party. And its symbol is the cockroach,
1:51
S2: which has now become a real sensation.
1:55
S4: India's political meme war just got a new twist. The
1:58
S4: viral cockroach. Janta party. Cockroach Janata Party. You heard that right.
2:03
S5: The Cjp looks a real threat to India's traditional parties.
2:07
S5: Its message is simple. It says, like the resilient cockroach,
2:11
S5: the common people of India cannot be crushed.
2:18
S2: In just three days, they got. More than 3 million
2:24
S2: Indians joined the. The satirical party, which is not actually
2:28
S2: a party yet. And more than 22 million people followed,
2:33
S2: followed the party on social media and made the 30
2:37
S2: year old guy who created the concept an instant star
2:42
S2: in India. But the cockroach itself. Of course, cockroach symbol,
2:47
S2: which is the symbol of the party and one of
2:49
S2: its emblems is a picture of a cockroach wearing sunglasses
2:53
S2: munching through a lotus leaf, which is the symbol of
2:56
S2: the ruling party of India, the BJP of Narendra Modi.
3:01
S2: And so you'll notice the name of the Cockroach Janta
3:03
S2: Party is the acronym for which is the Cjp. So
3:07
S2: it's a it's a direct play on the BJP, the
3:11
S2: ruling party, and it's created a lot of interest and
3:15
S2: a lot of sensation in India and around the world.
3:19
S1: So I guess the question is, is this a joke? Uh,
3:22
S1: because I also saw that it had a tongue in
3:25
S1: cheek membership criteria, which included being unemployed, lazy, chronically online
3:31
S1: and having, quote, the ability to rant professionally. So are
3:35
S1: they actually fighting for any real change? Like what? What
3:37
S1: is this about?
3:39
S2: Well, it did start as a joke, but because of
3:41
S2: the momentum that it's picked up and the trouble it's
3:46
S2: caused for the ruling party, which has essentially vindicated the
3:51
S2: seriousness of this movement by trying to block it, uh,
3:54
S2: had its website taken down its social media accounts blocked,
3:58
S2: denounced the founder of this movement. His name is Abhijit,
4:03
S2: denounced as essentially a tool of the Pakistani intelligence services
4:10
S2: and of course, Pakistan being public enemy number one in India.
4:14
S2: All of which has has been resisted and refused, rejected
4:19
S2: by Typekit and his supporters. And, uh, he's like a cockroach,
4:25
S2: as he says, you've forgotten what we're best at doing,
4:27
S2: which is survive.
4:29
S6: One should know. Where does cockroach exist? They exist in
4:33
S6: a place which is rotten. So is the system so
4:36
S6: rotten that the cockroach cockroaches are coming out in such
4:41
S6: a huge number? We have to think about that.
4:43
S2: So it did start as a joke. But the momentum
4:46
S2: plus the official attempts to stifle it, have only given
4:49
S2: it more momentum, more credibility and more force. So now
4:54
S2: there's a movement to enshrine it as an actual political party,
4:59
S2: a formal formally registered in India, which is quite doable.
5:04
S2: But you ask me, Samantha, are they campaigning for change
5:07
S2: or is this just a joke? Well, DPC did put
5:10
S2: out a five part manifesto. He said that he's going
5:15
S2: to ask all the 22 million followers for suggestions as well.
5:20
S2: But the manifesto so far, number one on the five
5:24
S2: point manifesto that he put out initially was to block
5:29
S2: retired Supreme Court judges from having cushy retirements. Uh, hence
5:35
S2: seeking vengeance against the chief justice who made the cockroach comment,
5:39
S2: but also seeking more representation for women in the Parliament
5:43
S2: of India and the cabinet. At the moment, there is
5:46
S2: a quota where a third of the seats in the
5:49
S2: Lok Sabha, the lower house, are reserved for women. The
5:52
S2: Cockroach Party wants that to go to 50% in the
5:54
S2: cabinet and the and the Parliament. Um, other changes it's
5:58
S2: demanding are that the two biggest Tycoons in India are
6:04
S2: forced to divest their media holdings to allow a genuine,
6:08
S2: as the Cockroach party puts it, independent media to flourish instead.
6:14
S2: Although it must be said, India has a vibrant, vast,
6:18
S2: flourishing media sector, so it's hard to say that it's
6:23
S2: like that. There's a North Korean like grip on public
6:27
S2: debate in India. It's it's astonishingly vigorous, the media in India,
6:33
S2: but they're some of the key demands that the party
6:36
S2: has made so far.
6:37
S1: And do you reckon they're going to fight for, um,
6:40
S1: I guess help with with Labour because you spoke to
6:43
S1: a research fellow at the Australia India Institute. This is
6:46
S1: Doctor Teesta Prakash. Uh, who told you that there are
6:50
S1: real problems facing India's Gen Z in particular. And unemployment
6:54
S1: is massive, right. So can you just sort of briefly,
6:56
S1: I guess, walk us through the on the ground problems
6:59
S1: that the youth in India and the youth population is massive, right?
7:03
S1: In India. So what problems are they facing?
7:06
S2: Yeah. So it's the world's most populous country. It overtook
7:09
S2: China last year more than 1.4 billion people. And of
7:12
S2: those most just over 50% are under the age of 30.
7:17
S2: So it has a tremendous, tremendously young demographic profile. The
7:22
S2: problems that you mentioned, Samantha, are very real. The biggest
7:27
S2: is unemployment, youth unemployment, as you've said. The official unemployment
7:31
S2: rate in the formal workforce is 16%, although the underlying
7:36
S2: figure is thought to be larger. But even the formal
7:39
S2: figure for unemployed graduates in India is a whopping 40%.
7:46
S2: So every year the country turns out just over 5
7:48
S2: million university graduates, but fewer than 3 million are able
7:53
S2: to find jobs. So it's a cumulative problem where that
7:57
S2: ranks of the unemployed just continue to rise. And it's,
8:01
S2: as you can tell from the instant take up and
8:03
S2: momentum of the cockroach party. The frustrations are real and
8:10
S2: have built up to quite a quite a point. So
8:12
S2: the cockroach party really was the the flame that lit
8:15
S2: the tinder that is built up through youth unemployment. The
8:20
S2: perception that young people will not be able to get
8:23
S2: the future that they'd imagined. And it also, I should
8:27
S2: add that the whole the whole youth unemployment lack growth
8:31
S2: for young people started post Covid. So it existed pre-COVID,
8:36
S2: but Covid, as it did with many other things around
8:38
S2: the world, aggravated the problem.
8:41
S7: Okay. So, I mean, could this have the power.
8:43
S1: To bring down Narendra Modi's government? Uh, we know that
8:47
S1: Narendra Modi has been in power for a very long time,
8:50
S1: lost a bunch of seats, I believe, at the last election.
8:53
S1: So I guess, yeah, tell us what sort of impact
8:55
S1: this could have on him and his party.
8:57
S2: Well, there's two two points here, I think. The first
9:00
S2: is that the reason that the government has been instantly
9:03
S2: edgy about this, and according to Indian media reports, the.
9:07
S2: The Intelligence Bureau of India warned the government that this
9:12
S2: did have the potential to destabilise the country, that it
9:16
S2: had the potential to be an anarchic political movement. And
9:21
S2: it's so that's the first point, is that the intelligence
9:23
S2: services and the government have been anxious about it. And
9:26
S2: one of the reasons that they've been so anxious is
9:28
S2: that three of India's neighbours, neighbouring countries, have had youth
9:32
S2: led protests, large scale, that actually brought down three governments.
9:39
S2: So India, the Indian government, was, as you'd expect in
9:42
S2: those circumstances, very alert to this as a potential danger.
9:46
S2: But Modi's position is very secure. As things currently stand,
9:51
S2: this protest movement would have to would have to grow
9:54
S2: enormously and exponentially. India's prime minister has the highest approval
9:59
S2: rating of any democratic country in the world. It's around 70%.
10:04
S2: Even though he has been in power a long time.
10:06
S2: He doesn't have to face an election for three years.
10:09
S2: A general election for three years. But he just in
10:12
S2: the same week that the Cockroach Janta Party, the Cjp,
10:16
S2: was created, the BJP, the ruling party of Modi, actually
10:22
S2: had a stunning political success where in local elections across
10:25
S2: the country, it dominated and won almost two thirds of
10:30
S2: the available seats. So the party is strongly entrenched. Modi
10:35
S2: is very popular, which makes it very unlikely that this
10:38
S2: will actually bring down the government. But you know, who knows?
10:42
S2: With such a youth profile in the demographic of the country,
10:46
S2: with so much time ahead of us and with very
10:49
S2: real problems in India ahead, anything could happen. But it's
10:54
S2: more likely because India is such a democratic country that
10:59
S2: the cockroach party, if it persists, formalises and gathers momentum
11:03
S2: could fit in with the larger democratic system and find
11:07
S2: its way through the larger system, rather than in some
11:10
S2: some other countries where there's been an authoritarian system where
11:14
S2: there has been no democratic adjustment to accommodate a new
11:17
S2: party or a protest party. India might well be able
11:20
S2: to accommodate this within its rich and varied democratic movement.
11:27
S7: After the break.
11:28
S2: If you look at Australia today, where you've got a
11:32
S2: lot of young people feeling disenfranchised, you are seeing the government,
11:37
S2: the Albanese government, attempting to accommodate those concerns, particularly the
11:44
S2: feeling of hopelessness about ever being able to buy a home.
11:54
S7: It is absolutely.
11:54
S1: Fascinating, and I wanted.
11:55
S7: To.
11:55
S1: Just pick up on something you just said, which is that,
11:58
S1: you know, while Narendra Modi's government is very strong, part
12:01
S1: of the reason that it's perhaps been spooked by this
12:03
S1: cockroach revolt is that the governments in recent areas in
12:08
S1: Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal were all forced out of
12:12
S1: power by massive youth led protests only since 2022. So
12:16
S1: I was just wondering if you could perhaps place these
12:19
S1: latest youth revolts in a historical context for me, because,
12:23
S1: as we know, history is absolutely littered with youth led
12:26
S1: revolts that sparked massive change. So immediately there's a few
12:29
S1: that come to mind. There was the the famous protests
12:32
S1: in Paris in May 1968. They were sparked by student
12:36
S1: outrage over overpopulated universities, and it led to, I think,
12:41
S1: the economy ground to a halt. The president, Charles de Gaulle,
12:44
S1: resigned the next year. I think a lot to do
12:46
S1: with that. And it led to increased labor rights and wages. And,
12:50
S1: of course, then we've got like the civil rights movement
12:53
S1: in the United States in particular, where that was also
12:55
S1: started by youth movements, and that led to the dismantling
12:59
S1: of legally sanctioned racial segregation, of course. And there's all
13:02
S1: kinds of others the Arab Spring, there's Vietnam, there's all
13:04
S1: kinds of things we could mention. So I'm just wondering,
13:07
S1: these particular revolts, the one that's happening in India, if
13:11
S1: it picks up momentum, the ones that we've mentioned in India,
13:13
S1: Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, like are could they be as
13:17
S1: consequential as these previous ones that have gone down in history?
13:21
S2: Well, it's very early days. So the potential is there.
13:25
S2: Maybe it'll fizzle out. Perhaps it will gain momentum. The
13:30
S2: the founder still living in the US. There have been
13:34
S2: requests for him to move back to India to get
13:38
S2: this party formally started. He's resisting. He says that he'll
13:42
S2: be arrested the moment he fears he'll be arrested or killed.
13:44
S2: He's had death threats the moment he sets foot back
13:46
S2: in India. His family home in India has been surrounded
13:50
S2: by the police for days now. They say it's to
13:53
S2: protect the family, but Typekit thinks it's probably more likely
13:57
S2: to intimidate him. So it's a very Volatile moment in
14:04
S2: a in a febrile democratic system. The first two case
14:09
S2: studies that you mentioned, there are. Samantha Paris, May 68th
14:14
S2: and the US. They're good examples of how a democracy. Uh,
14:19
S2: you know, there was plenty of, uh, plenty of turmoil
14:22
S2: in those cases, but ultimately the democratic structures of those
14:26
S2: countries adapted and adapted to those demands. And that they
14:30
S2: were they didn't turn out to be revolutions, although the
14:34
S2: the Paris 68 riots were certainly intended to be to
14:37
S2: bring about a revolution, the three most recent ones in
14:41
S2: South South Asia that you mentioned, Bangladesh, by the way, was, uh,
14:45
S2: has been named the first Gen Z or Gen Z revolution.
14:51
S2: But those three Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka actually brought down
14:56
S2: governments in short order mass street protests by young people,
15:04
S2: let's call it Gen Z, roughly, but with others then
15:07
S2: joining and actually brought down the rulers in all three
15:12
S2: countries in short order. So they have been enormously consequential.
15:17
S2: The the full effects we we have yet to see.
15:21
S2: It takes a while to to see the aftermath of
15:23
S2: these things. But look, I would mention two other case
15:27
S2: studies in our region in Asia, in the in the
15:30
S2: Asia Pacific in recent decades that have had profound and
15:36
S2: permanent effects. Two of these two I just happened to
15:40
S2: be at reporting on at the time. One was South Korea,
15:43
S2: which was a military dictatorship. The dictatorship of Chun Doo
15:47
S2: hwan was the general student. University students there had been
15:52
S2: holding protests and riots on university campuses for years. And
15:55
S2: then just one day, the whole country was suddenly, jack
15:58
S2: of this system reached its breaking point, and I remember
16:02
S2: being in the street with a gas mask on reporting
16:05
S2: and the students were the student protests were blocked at
16:09
S2: both ends of this street, and the riot police were
16:11
S2: going to move in and basically arrest them and disperse them.
16:16
S2: Something magical happened. And all the office workers in the
16:20
S2: buildings on either side of the street, and the shoppers
16:22
S2: who were out just doing their, you know, department store
16:25
S2: shopping and all the rest of it. They all joined
16:27
S2: the students when they saw they were about to be
16:29
S2: crushed by the police and the army. And suddenly a
16:33
S2: student protest became a national uprising and the police backed off.
16:37
S2: Chun doo hwan was gone within days, and it became
16:39
S2: a robust democracy to this day. That was 88. The
16:43
S2: other one is Indonesia 98. A decade later. Later, when Suharto,
16:48
S2: after 30 years in power, former general running an autocrat, violent,
16:53
S2: autocratic repression was brought down by economic crisis, the Asian
16:57
S2: economic crisis, and a student led protest movement. Again, the
17:02
S2: Reformasi movement, which converted in short order Indonesia into the
17:06
S2: thriving democracy it is today. So youth led political movements,
17:11
S2: protest movements have been the vanguard of social conscience and
17:16
S2: political change in many countries for many centuries. So we'll see,
17:21
S2: is the short answer.
17:23
S7: That is incredible, Peter.
17:24
S1: I mean, it's enough to even make one feel inspired
17:26
S1: during these dark times.
17:28
S2: Well, anybody who's feeling disempowered, you know, disenfranchised, helpless can
17:36
S2: look at these examples and take some inspiration. Absolutely. Democratic
17:41
S2: systems are better at responding, of course, by their very nature,
17:44
S2: they're more flexible. And if you look at Australia today,
17:47
S2: where you've got a lot of young people feeling disenfranchised,
17:52
S2: you are seeing the government, the Albanese government, attempting to
17:57
S2: accommodate those concerns, particularly the feeling of hopelessness about ever
18:02
S2: being able to buy a home. Home ownership. Property ownership
18:06
S2: has been at the center of middle class movements and
18:10
S2: the creation of middle class and the creation of stable
18:13
S2: societies for centuries, and the Albanese government does not want
18:18
S2: to see the next generations arising without the ability or
18:23
S2: the hope of being able to buy real estate. So
18:25
S2: hence the reforms to the tax system, which today roiling
18:28
S2: the political system in Australia.
18:32
S1: Peter, I'm so glad you you mentioned this because I'd
18:34
S1: love to wrap up just by asking you. You're there,
18:36
S1: you're in Canberra, you're in Parliament House as we speak, uh,
18:39
S1: walking the corridors of power, as it were. So is
18:42
S1: there any suggestion, is there any feeling that, you know,
18:46
S1: that Albanese, that the government is perhaps looking to these revolts, uh,
18:49
S1: in Asia and elsewhere and thinking, hmm, do you think
18:53
S1: our our young people are going to get inspired, you know,
18:56
S1: might they attempt something like this? And might we sort of,
18:59
S1: you know, are we are we, are we coming to
19:01
S1: this moment with enough reform, you know, are we heading
19:04
S1: this off or could we see ourselves similarly threatened?
19:07
S2: Well two points. Um, I'm a bit of a two
19:10
S2: point specialist today, aren't I, Samantha?
19:12
S1: But I love that.
19:14
S2: The first point is the results of a worldwide poll
19:16
S2: by the Gallup polling organization, published in February of 107 countries.
19:22
S2: And it found that the universal concern everywhere is material
19:26
S2: well-being of individuals and families and households above other things.
19:30
S2: You know, whether it's immigration or whatever it is. So
19:35
S2: the universal universality of inflation, cost of living pressures is
19:40
S2: around the world, the group, the demographic feeling that most
19:43
S2: acutely around the whole world is younger people, Gen Z
19:48
S2: in particular, and the countries in which it's most acutely
19:52
S2: felt in the developed democracies are three. Number one is Ireland,
19:57
S2: number two is Australia, and number three is Canada. So
20:01
S2: the disgruntlement, The dissatisfaction in Australia is, on a comparative basis,
20:07
S2: extremely high among the younger generation. So is the government
20:12
S2: concerned that there'll be protests on the street? No. Have
20:15
S2: they paid close attention to developments in India, South Asia
20:19
S2: and elsewhere? No. We are, as usual, in our insular,
20:25
S2: self preoccupied mode. But the the sheer extent of the
20:31
S2: dissatisfaction spread through our society has motivated the government to
20:36
S2: organically undertake these reforms, even without the prospect of a
20:41
S2: mass of cockroaches taking over the streets of Canberra.
20:45
S1: Fascinating, Peter. Okay. Well, we'll see what develops from here.
20:48
S1: So as always, thank you so much.
20:51
S2: A pleasure, Samantha.
21:00
S1: In other news today home builders will be able to
21:03
S1: pick and choose prefabricated elements for a new property under
21:07
S1: a new system to be rolled out across the country,
21:09
S1: which is aimed at improving a construction industry that is
21:13
S1: building half as many homes as it did 30 years ago.
21:17
S1: And the head of ASIO, Mike Burgess, has told the
21:20
S1: Royal Commission into anti-Semitism that the spy agency will create
21:24
S1: an additional 250 positions, including 210 armed frontline officers and
21:31
S1: 40 others in the command, structure and intelligence. You can
21:35
S1: read more at the age.com.au or smh.com.au. Today's episode was
21:42
S1: produced by Kai Wong.
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