Latest / Pod Therapy / #370: Ending Friendship, Fear of Parenting, Forgiving My Father

Transcript

#370: Ending Friendship, Fear of Parenting, Forgiving My Father · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, although it's a good, good day to sit inside
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: all day the window that I'm glad you got the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: hint of the breeze.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: It was beautiful inside. Yeah, this episode has made it
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: possible by our fady, the dark Lord himself, Jim's Fasha,
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: and our therapy partner's Dirty Beat and pickets fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: This is pot Therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: You get some int questions anonymously at pod therapy dot
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: net or email us at pot Therapy guys at gmail
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: dot com and now broadcasting from return. That's Jim. That's
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: why I'm Nick.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: It's time for some pot the Well, it is Super
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Bowl week, sports fan, are we allowed to say super Bowl?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Get suit for that?
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: It's a big game. I think you have to say
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: superb Owl.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah, it's the bird one. So that's come
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: into soup.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can take the soup or the bowl.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to hear our football predictions, of course
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: you do Patreon dot com, slash therapy, or if.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: You want to hear Jim talk about nine to eleven.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: It was related though, you know, is part of my
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: football prediction was it was. It was very clearly holding
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: hands like these two things dot com slash therapy. In
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: my opinion, this super Bowl and nine to eleven have
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a lot in common, so go check it out patreon
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: dot com slash Therapy. We also rank sexiness of uh.
• 1:18
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, that was very fun.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Controversy Yeah, I think a lot of controversy.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Almost ended friendships.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm still uncomfortable with what was said, and I just, uh,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I don't yeah, just it's really difficult.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Politics really bothers them. It's like, oh you what, how
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: do you not see what I see?
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: This is not okay. So yeah, lots to learn about
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash therapy. You can get our pre
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: show and extra thirty forty minutes on top of the episode.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: You know you want it, and you get to know
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: us a little bit better, a little less therapy, a
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: little bit more personality. But this is the main show,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: so it's time to get to fucking work. We've got
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: some questions here, and the first one is how to
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: end a friendship.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: You know what we can We don't even need to
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: read this.
• 2:04
  Speaker 6: You got to play this video game, and your your
• 2:08
  Speaker 6: only goal set the high score.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: That's just try to solve the puzzle as fast as possible.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Get worse.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: It's like you have to go like upstream. Yeah yeah,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: yeah yeah. Or you're navigating like around these narrows, like
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: you have to turn, and you're with a group of
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: friends and they're all waiting.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: For you the canoe.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: If your friends get too far ahead of you, lose friends.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: You gotta get to camp before the sun goes down
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: because you're going upstream.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, everything about you. This is so good. This
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: is such a good idea. Upstream is also wonderful Jesus.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: At some point, it's like, let's just pull over to
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the bank and walk just we'll drag it. But what
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: if you get a paddle that's full length and the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: other one has a little oh yeah, and you only
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: have the two paddles and somebody definitely is going to
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: drop one.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah all right, next question?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well there you go, right, or good luck with that?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: How do the friendship? Hi guys and Whitney, we've done this.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah just now yeah, Hi guys and Whitney. My favorite.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I was hoping you had some advice for me. I
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: have a friend who while I do love very much.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I don't really like her anymore. You might ask, why
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: don't you just stop being her friend? But it's a
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: bit more complicated than that. We both lived through traumatic
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: childhoods together, and because of that we've become enmeshed over
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: the last twenty five years. While I've gotten help and
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: grown into a functioning adult, she's stuck in her trauma
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: and still does not function well. We're at totally different
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: places in our lives. While I sympathize and even empathize
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: with her trauma and subsequent bipolar disorder, I simply no
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: longer enjoy her company or the enmeshed nature of our relationship.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Breaking up with her will be very hard, though she's
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: very dependent on me emotionally and relies on me for
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: some real life stuff like help with her daughter, But
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I don't approve of the way she raises or parents
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: her daughter, and I don't want to be involved anymore.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I do love the kid and would love to sustain
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: a relationship with the daughter, but her mother, my friend,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: is not nearly mature enough to let that happen. I'm
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: in a pickle. How do I break up with my
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: friend when the reason I don't want to be her
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: friend is as personal as it is. I don't want
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: to hurt her, of course, I also don't want to
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: cause strife that would overflow into her young daughter's life,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: as mom's emotions usually do. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you, anonymous fouck.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: If you don't want a play canoe simulator.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think anybody does.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: That has been.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Overcooked to That's the other way to bring.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: The picture that I actually got as the writer as
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: you were reading this letter, the picture I got Jim
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I had no uh no, you can't see it home
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 5:27
  Speaker 6: But Jim is lining up for the lift.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Drop me man.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Nobody puts Jimmy in a corner.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: The end of the Hangover three, that.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Is the one I skipped.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I never saw that get through a single episode related
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: podcast without bringing up the Hangover three. No, somehow it's
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: that the very end when uh uh Zach Galfana what's
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: his name is?
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: One bad wolf Pack?
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, I care, Alan Alan is basically
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: breaking up with uh Leslie Chow Oh okay, mister yeah,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: and just like just like we can't do this anymore.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: You're you're unhealthy for me. You know, when we get together,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: people get hurt. Like that's the point.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: It's funny.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I want you to keep doing lines as Leslie Chow.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I just want you to just no way that's gonna go.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: We've already talked about and I'm not just keep it.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I just don't feel like I'm getting your point yet.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: If you could just do a few more of maybe.
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: You can focus on just doing the voice and not
• 6:40
  Speaker 6: pulling your eyes back so you squinty.
• 6:47
  Speaker 7: Yeah, they can't see that at home. Yea, and why
• 6:51
  Speaker 7: would they not believe? So anyway, Whitney, he's out.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: You'll see you all next week. I'm just imagining him question.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So anyway, even though it was a comedic part of
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: the movie, he actually does a good job of, like
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: of setting a boundary and together. This isn't I like you,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: but this we can't. We can't continue to hang out
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: because it's not good for us.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I like the example there.
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I do remember that part of the movie
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: from Hangover Part three. There, thank you for that moment
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: of just remembering Hangover Part three taking you're back.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, it's a really hard question, you know,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: because it is so personal and it's tough, because I
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: think there's a lot of like friendships that maybe have
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: not become this close where you can steer away right
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: where you can sort of realize I'm outgrowing this person.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Our lives are having different directions. I'm gonna make less
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: contact and make less of an effort and will like
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: naturally glide away. A lot of times, I think that's
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: how you end them. This one doesn't sound like we
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: can do that.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like we are.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I'm raising your daughter with you, like we have been
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: together for twenty five years. We are joined at the hip,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: your code dependent on me. I cannot inconspicuously end it.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: It has to be a conversation.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I feel like there might be somewhere in between.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: I maybe to uh, what's the word, like ambitiously thinking
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: about this.
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: That's a better word for this.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: But I was thinking that you start with setting up
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: some physical boundaries. So when you said you're physically involved,
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I'm imagining like maybe you're helping her pick her daughter
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: her up from school or you know, take her to
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: clock Right, you're there a few days a week. Maybe
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: start there and say, hey, I'm not able to pick
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: your daughter up these days. Starting in March, or whatever.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: So there's the physical distance that starts, and over time
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: it's like the emotional stuff. Maybe there's times where you
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: can kind of get a little bit of boundary setting
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: or distance there. I mean, I don't know what that
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: looks like for you, because being in mush and being
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: friends with someone for twenty five years is a really
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: long time and it's almost habitual to like just answer
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: or be there for them, Like it would feel really
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: uncomfortable even for you to not do that.
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: But if you could.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Get a little bit of space that way, My thoughts
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: are one, there could be that natural barrier that starts developing,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: like kind of like they take the hint. But I
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: think more likely what will happen is she will notice
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: and say, hey, have.
• 9:54
  Speaker 8: You been pulling back?
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: Am I bothering you?
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: What's going on? Why aren't you answering your phone as much?
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: Or we aren't you doing this as much? Whatever? But
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: to me, then that allows space for a conversation she's asked,
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: and so then it's like, oh, actually, well you know
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: we have that.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: What do you think on this?
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: I mean, because it doesn't sound like writer wants to
• 10:15
  Speaker 6: have that conversation either.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: It sounds like they're struggling with it, because it sounds
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: like they just don't it has to because they're saying
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: like I can't just say like mister Choll, like hey man,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: we're not good together. We cause problems. It sounds like, yeah, yeah, Nick,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: if you could help us.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: At that moment, what would mister Chay does mister.
• 10:33
  Speaker 8: Chow you guys, Jesus No, I.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Can't touch my face with both hands.
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: Not okay, But I think you can share.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, the writer obviously doesn't want to have that conversation,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: but this gets into the territory where you can share.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: I kind of I feel statements. I can go back
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: to some basic therapy there. But you know, having been
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: in situations similar to this throughout my own personal life,
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: that's where the conversation may have to come up where
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: you say, hey, the things you're sharing with me are
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: really heavy and that takes a toll on me. It's
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: kind of like sharing your own experience. So so that
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: was my experience, but for you, maybe I have a
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: really hard time watching how you're disciplining your daughter. I
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: don't really agree with this, Or you can ask, hey,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: I have some some serious things I would want to share.
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: Are you okay hearing them?
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: I usually ask like asking for permission, because that already
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: kind of takes the edge off where they've given that
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: and they and.
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: You can say something along the lines of I would
• 11:48
  Speaker 6: never dream of telling you how to parent your.
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: Daughter, right, I'm not trying to have I do.
• 11:53
  Speaker 6: Have these issues, and it's hard for me to be
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: around these things because I have an issue with.
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: These Yes, it's the me problem like I'm having.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: I'm having the problem here.
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: That's the thing is everybody always makes fun of the
• 12:04
  Speaker 6: old It's not you, it's me.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I know what. I think.
• 12:08
  Speaker 8: That's so legit.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: What you have to do though with it is you
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: have to commit to it.
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeahs veil buried, like I just can't handle seeing
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: you raise your daughter horror.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it can't me.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I don't tolerate toxic bitches.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Very that's me problem.
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: I'm always it has to be a legit, like, here
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: are the problems that I'm having right now, and the
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: only way that I could get out of these problems
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: is to is to separate myself from this. And also,
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: I would encourage you to do something that I don't
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: know that we've ever encouraged anyone to do here before.
• 12:43
  Speaker 6: If you feel comfortable with it, kind of I was
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: gonna say lying, I was gonna say it is you
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: could just lie to her. You can just say, like,
• 12:52
  Speaker 6: here are the problems that I'm having, and you can
• 12:55
  Speaker 6: lie about those problems. You can make ship up whole
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: cloth if you want to. If you have diarrhea, I
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: like being around, who's going to ask her.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Follow up question?
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Terrible foot, that's that your.
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: Daughter triggers nausea and me, yeah, like whatever, I don't
• 13:14
  Speaker 6: care what it is. But like if you if you
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: have something or even exaggerate it existing for whatever you
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: need to say to if if like.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: I'm taking you, I'm kind of taking your word here.
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: Writer, you're saying you kind of want off the hook here, Yeah,
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: and you also want to let your friend off the
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: hook as gently as possible.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: It is tough because I appreciate that. I like everything
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: you just said, and I also see it is tricky
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: because like I'm sure.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: And I don't hurt her.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think you're right.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're lying to.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: If of deception that we can use to spare her.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I love it. It has to be called out a
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: little bit because if I'm trying to say, hey, I
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: can't be your friend anymore, You're gonna the obvious question
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: why why why not? And it's like, okay, there's there's
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: not a lot of moves I can do, right, it's
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: about me. My life's going to know there you shall say, Okay, yeah,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: twenty five years have been messing. And it's tough because like, yeah,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: it's so good, it's tough to like whenever you get
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: into this place where you're like co raising somebody's kid
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: and you're like the aunts and now like you've n
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: messed yourself and their family dynamic and your anti Whitney
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: or whatever. And then it's like, as the writer's kind
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of explaining to us, it breaks your heart because you
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: love the kid and you're like, I've kind of become
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: your other co parent and your mom has damaged a
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: lot of relationships in your life and takes a lot
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: of her emotions out on you immaturely. You're the victim here, kid,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: but I can't save you from that, and it's hard
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: for me to watch it. And I don't like being
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: part of your mom's life anymore because she's immature and
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: stunted and I need to kind of go in a
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: new direction. But I mean, the writer seem to be
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: struggling with that fear of like I don't want to
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: abandon this.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Kid, I know, but it's so difficult for me because
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: I'm my kids are innocent and everything, but I know
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: there has to be boundaries.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: But that was so hard, And it's tough because I
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: can see the friend, you know, kind of taking that
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: track of like, I can't believe you're abandoning you know,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: my daughter, she loves you, like you know, you're part
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: of our lives and you're so selfish, and like, it's
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: so difficult, and like I appreciate the writer kind of
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: hinting that they're willing to have honesty, yeah, and say something.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: And it's just so difficult to rip off that band
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: aid and say something like I don't feel the connection
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: with you that we want shared and not vilifying that
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: person because it's it's very tempting to like correct them
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: and offer the big lecture of like, here's the ninety
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: nine theces nailed to the wall. Here's everything I think
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: you do wrong in your parenting, as a friend, as
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: a citizen in the world. These are the patterns I
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: see that are self destructive. I can't be your therapist
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: anymore with your bipolar disorder, like any to get helpy,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: you refuse to get help, your self destructive. Like it's
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: very tempting to deliver that big package of truth. But
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I kind of agree with Jacob that maybe we don't
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: need to do any of that, like somehow finding another
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: excuse for breaking up the relationship.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: I feel like, if you're that friends for that long,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: in that and meshed, I don't know how you can lie,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: Like I don't know what lie is like Otherwise I'm like, well, yeah,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: that that's not the worst advice of her. I'm like,
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't be like, oh, that's terrible advice. But I
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: think that'd be really hard.
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: Like if you don't live close to each other, you
• 16:29
  Speaker 6: could just say like I'm moving.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, I've taken it later.
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: You know your life, you know, you know what you
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: can get away with.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I'm changing religions and your religion very specifically.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: It doesn't let me talk to you, I know.
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: But also you're not.
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: But I like everything else about this religion, we go
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: with it.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: You're also not responsible for your friend's emotions. And their actions,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: and so I get being mindful of.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Those It's so hard, but that is.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Their relationship and their life to live, and you have
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: to do it's best for you, and you can do
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: that gently, but it will be really difficult. I completely
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: hear that that's a really challenging question.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Well, and I think.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: There's something to be said for somebody being a twenty
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: five year stakeholder in each other's lives. I think the
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: writer's taking it the right amount of serious that you
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: don't want to disrespect your history with this person by
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: flippantly just ghosting them, pulling away from them, leaving them
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: to pick up the pieces of this puzzle and try
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: to solve this mystery. I don't like that. I I historically,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: when I see people do that, I think that's cruel.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I just wish that wasn't the only option on the table.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to if the person you're breaking up
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: with is sort of like you know, violence or like
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: you know, really unpredictable, it's like, Okay, then I'm sorry
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: they've lost the right to explanation because they're not a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: trustworthy person. But in this case, I admire the writer's
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: willingness to wrestle with the truth or some version of it,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and basically explain I don't think that we're compatible anymore.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And god, it's so hard to say though, right, there's
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: no nice way to say it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Conversations though, I mean, maybe the friend needs to hear
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: something like that.
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: You know, we talk about kicking the ass.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, in therapy, it's like a lot of people
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: don't go get help until they need it or their
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: life is disrupted reality check.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Yes, Also, we haven't really said it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: Make really sure with yourself that you want to do
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: this before before you start any kind of process with this.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: You are losing a friend to even if you're like
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: I don't I love them.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: You're instigating it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: But like if you think, to you, if you think
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: there's a possibility that in like a month, good point,
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: you're going to be calling her up and be like,
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: we need to reconcile. We got to fix this.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I miss you.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: That don't do this.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't unring this bell.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is going to be done. If done, it's
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: going to be done.
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: What bothers you?
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: That's fine, Yeah, have a conversation, but.
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: Bring up yeah, yeah, yeah that's true.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I I like just the honest approach and just putting
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: everything out on the table and.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Just really I thought you'd be like, all I just
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: fade away into the bushes, like one shot in the.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Head, right, just yeah. I don't like to I like
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: band aid. Yeah, And I like to just be very
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: direct and like and non emotional about things, just like, Okay,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: here's kind of the prob friendship.
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: I don't have to be emotional.
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: I will walk up to her, zero expression of my face.
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: I punch her right in the neck, right in the neck,
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: and walk away. I would say a.
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: Goddamn word to her. That's the tangibent way.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: She knows what it means. I think like I would
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: just be very upfront and just kind of like, hey,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I miss these things about our relationship. I
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: miss how this has been. I really like that piece,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: but that's not where we're at right now. I feel
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: like I've kind of moved this way and you've kind
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: of moved this way. I wish we could get back
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: to that piece, but as it stands right now, I
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: can't do that now.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's I like that. That's kind of historical
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: and back on.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like, hey, this isn't going to be easy
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: for me. I miss these things. I'm already grieving because
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: these things are gone, you know.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: And another twist that we could add to that that
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I think could be a little bit deceptive if it's
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: not your truth, but fuck it. I agree with Jacob's
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: theory that anything that helps do it right. And so
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: like one another element you could add to this is
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you and I have been through so much together and
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: through so much similarly, and relied on each other for
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: so long that in many ways, when I spend time
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: with you or I interact with you, it reminds me
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: of a lot of the negative stuff that I've been through.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: And that's not even your fault. I just associate you
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: with it. And so I'm noticing that, like I carry
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: pain and stress and irritation into our relationship, and there's
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: things that I feel towards you that maybe you don't
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: even deserve. Times that I feel irritated with you. And
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: this goes back to the it's not you, it's me.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling irritated with you. I'm feeling frustrated with you.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I find myself being critical of you when you're a
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: person I love to pieces and I know you love
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: me in this like completely unjudgmental way, and I'm struggling
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: because I'm noticing I am judging you, I am critical
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: of you, and I think a lot of it has
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to do with our years of enmeshment are traumas, and
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I think it's time for me to try life without you.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm not growing up in some ways,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: and I'm fixating on things and I'm holding that in.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: It's becoming poisonous to me. I'm sabotaging our friendship in ways,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to do that. If our friendship
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: has to come to an end, I want it to
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: come to an end in a way that honors the
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: history we've had together and the love we have for
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: each other. I don't want to slowly watch this thing
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: die because I'm struggling with the relationship and I'm hurting
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: you and I'm hurting it, and like that could be
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: a pitch that opens up that door too, And that's
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: why I think we need to stop talking for you know,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: a period of time to be determined something to that effect.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: And if that doesn't work, gaslight them.
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: Yes, there, use that game to that.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, remember last week when you came over and keep
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: my car and took on my driveway. That's why. Remember
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: that money you owe me.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: No, I don't know, you know, I know, you know,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: remember the thing you lied to me about.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: No, I don't. Yeah, that is something you would say.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: This is ex You always do this. I'm so confused.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, then you pretend to be confused, so it's
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: my fault.
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: Whatever else you do while you're having this conversation, I
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: want you to have a boom box in your hand, yes,
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: playing bon Jovi's Blaze of Glory.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Okay the entire time on Loop Okay, Yeah.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: Blaze of Glory bon Jovi. That is the perfect India
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: friendship song.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I feel like that it can't hurt this. This is
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: a really tough scenario. And you know, writer, something that
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Jacob said that I just want to underline because I
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: really agree with this is sitting down to maybe do
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: your own personal work first and asking yourself, am I sure?
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to let this go because I take you
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: at your word in this letter, where you're saying, hey,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: there's all these reasons is on my mind all the time.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's time to end it. Granted, but if
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: you walked into my office as a new patient, and
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: you're like, so, anyway, I've been trauma bonded with somebody
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: for a quarter century, and I think I'm totally ready
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: to walk away from them because I've grown up, and
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: be like, I'll bet you think that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they wouldn't say it that way, but like,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: if I heard this story, I would be thinking to myself,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I'll bet you feel mentally ready to end this. But
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: holy smokes, would it be rare that a human being
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: is emotionally ready to walk away from somebody they have
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: been enmeshed with for this long? Like there are things
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: about your friend's brokenness that touch your need to fix
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: people or your need to rescue, and you don't need
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: to be a hero, right and so like that's gonna
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: be crazy frustrated vacancies in your life when this person's
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: chaos leaves and you don't have a person to fix
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: or a person's life to distract you, or it could
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: be the other things were like this person has all
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: their crap going on, but you can come to her
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: and you can download your stuff, and she's with you,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: and she knows your history and she remembers every little
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: nuance and she just loves you to pieces. And it
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: could be that, or it could be the fact that
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: you just feel this little girl in her life and
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: you feel like, I'm living this parental role and this
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: is bringing me like my holiday season and all these
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: connections I've raised this child. I was there the day
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: she was born, Like, it is just very unlikely that
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: any human being kind of this deep of a relationship
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: with somebody and be ready to flick that switch off instantly.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: So no matter what path you take, I would strongly
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: suspect there's some good personal work to be done to
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: emotionally ready yourself for this kind of divorce from your friend,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: because I fear that you might find the right words,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: and we may even give you some pitches that you
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: could use. But as Jacob prophesied, you may find that
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: you do that and then a month and a half later,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: you haven't ever done life without this person in Ituddenly
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: that vacancy is something you don't know what to do with.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: There's relief in the beginning, and then there's some kind
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: of morning and grieving, and I want to make sure
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: you're ready for that.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry you're having to deal with it.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah that sounds really shitty.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm really sorry.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean a really great question though, man,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: such a cool one in the sense that is unusual.
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: So I really hope that it don't give you a
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: good opportunity to play some solid Jovi.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: You gotta get those opportunities. I mean, it's those these opportunities.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: What bon Jovi songs?
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: You get like this one, and then you get like
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: halftime at a game, like is that the other like
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: bon time, it's.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: You leave you leave Jovi out your mouth.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, well fine, fine, I'll just do that. We're gonna
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: take quick break, and when we come back, we're talking
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: about parenting fears. You're listening to Pop Therapy.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Mini Scoop, Mason, Miller,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Test Miller, Biler, t, pariswanros Anna, Marie, Emma Caine, and
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Myra And if you like response to the show, become
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: a therap producer of patreon dot com slash therapy. All right,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: more intern trivia for everybody, because our intern hates everyone
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: on the show except Jim Our. Our trivia this week
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: is Disney.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: It does kind of feel that way?
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Does that does really really getting those vibes.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeahboddy.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Alright, we'll start with Jacob.
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: All right, well I did go to disney World or Disneyland.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Points.
• 26:34
  Speaker 9: Whitney up, Whitney, Whitney does. Two points for Whitney, two
• 26:40
  Speaker 9: points for Jacob, job Jacobs. Back to you, all right
• 26:44
  Speaker 9: for another?
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: What was the first feature length animated film produced by Disney?
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, he can do this.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: It's one of two. I think it's snow white.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: You're gonna shoot you take it off.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I'm doing snow white.
• 26:57
  Speaker 6: Oh wait, wait, hold on, hold on, let me let
• 26:59
  Speaker 6: me if to repeat the question first.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: What was the first feature length animated film produced by Disney?
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: I'm was thick with snow white?
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Snow white and the seventh You get that? Debbie does
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Dallas say Debbie, alright, there's more to it. Jacob's got
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: the lead. Four points. Debbie does the d F W area.
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: Without the guy on the basketball.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: All right, Whitney. What was Walt Disney's middle name?
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: There it is.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: That's quite a jump from the first one. Yeah, what
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: charming movie? Have you definitely seen? The first of its kind?
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: In fairness, he's one of the most famous people to
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: ever exist.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: This is true.
• 27:47
  Speaker 10: Fine, Yeah, knowing his full name, I don't think it's
• 27:51
  Speaker 10: completely out of the REALM Walter Disney.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Well, i'll give you a hint. It's one of the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: seven Dwarfs names. Oh start, I'm like, what does it
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: start with?
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: I don't think that options. Options, Okay, I think I
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: know this one. I can really steal it.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, give Jacob a shot.
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: I can't think I don't know this shot.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: I have this name Radley round in my head.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, don't say read the things after he says okay.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: My guess is Elias is Okay.
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: That is actually was thinking an a name, but it
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: was Adolph's.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's I really think Adolph is up there.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: I also kind of think Elias starts with an e.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, it does start with any.
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: I've never seen that.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: That would be Elias, Edward Emerson or Eugene.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Because if it started with an A, I think it' alias.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: If you use other letters, probably spells up the different.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: So you're going with Elias. You're going to take that.
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: I'll just copy Jacob.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Take that, Jacob, Jacob, I'll give you a point. Jacob
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: gets a point five to three to zero. My question
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: what projection technology first used in Haunted Mansion inspired modern holograms? Wow,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I'm wow.
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: Is it the Pepper's ghost illusions?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Going? Hold on, let me highlight this. It's the Pepper's
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: ghost effects. What? Okay?
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: So it's also used a lot of a lot of
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: magic effects.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna word you a point and I'm gonna
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: word myself a point. We share that point because I
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: have to, all right yourself, thank you? Okay, this is
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: the mental health example.
• 30:12
  Speaker 6: One of those points is one of Jim's points though,
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: just yeah.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to tet. Okay, So I think
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: that's Jacob seven yea four, I've got one.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Actually, Nick, go ahead and take three of mine.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Oh now I've got four. You got four? He has four? Yeah?
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Yeah, that's gonna steep climb.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: This is gonna be rough turn. That's it for this
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: break with the exact lyrics. What species is Chewbacca?
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Oh god damn it. He is a Wookie.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: He is a Wookie.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Let the wookie when also, it upsets me that that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: is technically Disney.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: And I was just thinking like Disney.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: I'm like.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: The Star Wars land at the Disneyland the other week.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: A good time.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: It's kind of amazing.
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it is still people take look incredible walking.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: We're walking around.
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: Neither of the giant Star Wars fans. We've seen the
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: movies and whatever. I don't think we've seen all the
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: new ones, but like we've seen most of them.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: If you've seen the old ones, you've seen the new
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: It was great, It was incredible. Yeah, it's beautiful. That's
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I do like Disney being the caretaker of that universe
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: because they are great storytellers and they get into the
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: details of ship and they're doing a really good job
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: with the president.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Unless you ask hardcore Star Wars fans. Yeah, and then
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: they hate it.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: They probably dislike it, but hey, they've never had more merch.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Paul hates the Disney, does he? I think all Star Wars?
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I think really Yeah, a good time anyway, all right,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Next question, parenting fear. Hey, y'all, sorry for the long
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: letter to preface this question. I do want kids, No
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: one is pressuring me, and I do want at least one,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: which is why this issue is so bad. My husband
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and I have been married for a bit now, are
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: financially in a good place purchase the new home with
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: the plan of a family and are starting to figure
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: out when we would like to start the process of
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: having kids. I know that my husband will be an
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: excellent father and is incredibly supportive of whatever choices I
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: make regarding my body and pregnancy. I'm fine with adoption,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: but he really wants a biological child. The social media
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: algorithms have decided that apparently I am the demographic that
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: needs to see pregnancy and postpartum reels posts constantly. Now
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I try to avoid social media, but cannot completely. Plus,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I do genuinely want to be well informed as I
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: head into this journey.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: The more I.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Learn from all sources, the more I realize that I
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: am absolutely terrified of hating and being resentful of my
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: own kid. This finally clicked last night when I learned
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: it's normal for babies to poop inside of you while
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: giving birth out, and if they don't, they then usually
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: poop all over you when they hand the baby to you,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: but can't really get up to clean it off.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Apps of that's disgusting.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: That was the final straw to realize that this is
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: a problem. So here's my backstory.
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: By the way, fair Yeah, yeah, so far, I'm on
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: your side, making some solid points.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Very long story short. My parents and family are wonderful,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: but many of those around me until recently were not.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: I spent the majority of my life growing up being
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: ruthlessly bullied, manipulated, exploited by those I trusted, finding myself
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: in bizarre situations, et cetera. I was an easy target,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: being a bit overweight, gullible, having ADHD and anxiety, so
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: adding those characteristics and being a people pleaser on top
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: of this, Around five years ago, through work with a
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: great therapist, I turned this all around. Now I'm properly medicated,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: which I would need to come off of with pregnancy
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and breastfeeding, have lost weight, am in shape, and finally
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: love my body. I have a wonderful group of people
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: around me, and I'm very happy where I'm at. I
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: have a great career and multiple graduate degrees. I also
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: learned I have some quirky, slightly undeterminable medical issues such
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: as some hypermobility, connective tissue disorder, lupus indicators and hashimotos renards,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: and allergy to numbing novacane type meds, etc. I've learned
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: to listen to my body and manage everything well. Everything
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I learned about pregnancy and birth is no matter what
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: choices I make, it sounds like I will be giving
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: up everything I've worked for, and on top of this,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: no matter what I do, most people around me will
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: have strong opinions they need to share and judge my
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: every move. All of my husband's friend's wives and many
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: of my friends with kids have made it their entire
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: personality and love to tell horror stories of pregnancy and
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: birth on repeat. The worst is one of my best friends,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: still ten years later, has the ultrasound photo of the
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: unborn son she lost before birth as her phone's screensaver
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: and adding him to her mother's obituary last year in
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: the proceeded in death by area. Oh wow, it seems
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: like the kid will be basically taking all of my
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: progress away from me and will just be another individual
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: who has taken things from me, exploited me, and is
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: basically just one more bully. But I know it's a baby.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: I know that is a horrible thought to have. I'm
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: terrified I will have this mindset and hate my own
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: kid for all they do to take from me mentally
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: and physically. Talking to my obgyn, she responded with, well,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: many women love pregnancy. It's a beautiful time, don't worry
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: about it, which wasn't helpful.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Damn that was gonna be.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: We got plans out, plans out. I'm wondering if this
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: is starting to head into OCD territory, as the thoughts
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: do feel obsessive. I cannot get away from them, and
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: they keep interfering with my sleep. I don't know what
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: to do or where to turn. Since this is such
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: a judgy subject surrounded with major guilt and shame, I'm
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: lost help. Anonymous pronouns are she and her. By the way,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I'm in my late twenties and living in the Midwestern US.
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: The Midwestern US gave away all the pregnancy.
• 36:51
  Speaker 6: Well, you wrote it to the right show because none
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: of us have kids, none of us, none of us
• 36:56
  Speaker 6: raised children.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: That's goodised by none of us have impregnant. I think
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: we can say that Jim had.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: A baby sit inside of us.
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: So there's everything that the writer says makes sense to me.
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, very valid, absolutely, Yeah.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. We talked about like contrusive thoughts or things like
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: goes would all be things. If I was like I
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: want to have a baby, probably all those things would
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: come to me all the things I was thinking about.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: My roommate in college. She used to tell me, She's like,
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: I can't wait to have kids. Then she was my
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: worst fear though. I heard you ship whenever you give birth,
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: and I was like, yeah, and I'm terrified of doing that.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: And then I learned, yeah, like pretty much everyone does.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Guess what, that's not even the worst thing that happened.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: A lot of other shit comes out of you too, right,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: that was the best part.
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: Top five of the worst things that come out of you.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: A lot of them is a human being that's going
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: to be an.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: Apparently when you're nineteen, that's what you were about.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things too that, like
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: you know, before you have kids, like there's you hear
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: these things and it's like, oh my god, like the
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: kid's sick, puked, I gotta clean it up, and it's
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: just that's just so gross. But I think when it's
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: your kid and you're in that spot, then it's just
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: it's kind of like, I don't have kids, so I'm
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: just making this up, but correct me at any point
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: if I'm wrong. But that's something just kind of something
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: just kind of switches and you're just like you just
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: go clean it up.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just there's two sides to this. So I
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: think one, I'm glad you said that, Nick, because it's
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: very much there's an anticipatory anxiety. I know you're right,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: You're right. I don't appreciate what you were doing with
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: your hands whenever you're answering the question. But it's fine.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: They're below the table. How can you see anything? I
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: can see what you're doing down there, And again.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: I don't appreciate it. I'm into it.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Every time we talk about kids in the show. Just
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: let's just get out of here man talking about the post.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: That's my fault. We've been doing this for seven years.
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: You should have known.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Look at what you're wearing.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Askless chefs. We'll do it all right. So the anticipatory
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: anxiety point, it is really important writer, because this does happen.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: And I've had lots of people very close to me
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: who have gone through this, and I went through this
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: as well. I thought. Originally I thought, I like kids,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like a really good uncle figure, or like I
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: enjoy like, I get along with them, I'm playful, I
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: like being a teacher. But I thought I would do
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: terrible with babies because I, like, as a growing up
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: teenage boy and as a young adult, I didn't know
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: how to hold a baby. I was always terrified when
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: somebody tried to hand me a baby. And so I thought, man,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I'd be like a really good uncle to like, you know,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: an older kid or whatever, like I get along with them.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I think I'd be really relatable. But I had terrible
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: anxiety that I would just be completely inept as a father.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Basically my wife would just be a single mother and
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: like I would not be able to contribute anything, and
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: my kid would ultimately hate me and have some kind
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: of like weird issue with me of like, oh you
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: never held me, you treat me like a pariah or whatever,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: and like resentment. Man, I'd catastrophized an entire like scenario
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: in my head, very similar to what you're going through.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: But what Nick said is true and what's interesting about
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: having children. And I also want to be careful because
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I don't want my advice to come off as don't
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: worry about it, go down, you'll be fine, because I
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: do want to circle around to a big point about
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: it's okay to say no to something, and we're gonna
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: talk about that as I am, but just as a
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: general feature of like how this goes down. It's very
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: similar to like looking at cold water. You know, like
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: you see this lake, everybody's jumping in the lake or
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: a swimming pool. You know it's cold, and you're like,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't imagine getting in there. It
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: would be awful. I'm sure i'd hate it. It's gonna sting,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: it's gonna like you're catastrophzing. You're bringing it up in
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: your head and you're imagining how rough this is gonna be,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: and you you kind of talk yourself out of it
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: and you're like, don't do it, it'll be all it'd
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: be terrible. But then once you start swimming around, once
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: you dive in, you go through the cold water experience.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. Yes it's shocking, but then you quickly
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: become in this moment and now you are not thinking
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: about how bad it will be because you're there and
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: now you're just experiencing this. Now you're just playing volleyball,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: you're swimming laps, you're doing whatever it is you're doing.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: You're in it now, and just stepping over that threshold
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: fundamentally changes everything that you're experiencing, because there's no longer
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: this anticipation. It is just game time. You're just doing
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: this now. So that does happen. And what we see
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: is even on a physiological and neurological level, men and women,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: but especially moms, fundamentally change during their pregnancy and after pregnancy.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: And a lot of this is part of why we
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: see all of these interesting things that can happen in
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: mental health, right, and like this huge stirring of the
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: pop But MRI scans have shown that, like neurological architecture
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: fundamentally changes post pregnancy in women, and we assume that
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of that has to do with like this
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: fundamental change in this person in their instincts, in what
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: their priorities are, in their values, and sometimes even in personality.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: So your letter is correct where it says I'm scared
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: that the baby would fundamentally disrupt my life and change everything.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I'm of the opinion that that is the right thing
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: to think, because I think a lot of people go
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: the other direction and they're like, oh.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: You overthink, you overthink it.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Oh, lots of people go out. You'll still go out,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: you'll still go to movies, you'll just they sleep all
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: the time anyway, And like when I hear that shit,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I'm always thinking to myself, like, dude, you are so
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: underestimating what this is. Like. It's not just the lifestyle disruption,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: it is a physical and mental health disruption. I've got
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: a couple that I work with right now. They have
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a new baby. They are sleep deprived as fuck.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but Jim, you don't get it like I
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: understand because I've had it. I understand. The trick is
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: just leave.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: It in the dark, crying and eventually it will stop.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah, and a teenage boy, which they're way
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: worse than baby.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: So yes, writer, I do agree with you. You're taking it.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I think the right amount of serious in that you're
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: looking at this and saying having a child will fundamentally
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: change me as a person, and it will probably change
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: what our lives look like right now. I think those
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: are usually predictable changes that you can anticipate and simulate. However,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: they're not. I don't think they're gonna be what you're catastrophizing.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: That's the video game. We need, pregnancy simulator, baby simulator.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Oh there it is.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: So remember homech did you have to do the egg?
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: We didn't have to do the egg. Did we do
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: like a bag of sugar or something like that?
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: Had we had kids in home back that had, uh,
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: baby dolls?
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Well, in Louisiana, you just had real babies.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody, they don't let us get abortions.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: We have to do something with all those babies. That's
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: the only state funding we get for these kids is
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: that we can use them as part of the educational system.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: That's a seventeen year old carried it around for a week.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Two birds, one stone Innovation, Louisiana figured it out.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: The baby comes out to give you a carton to
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Marlborough and send you home. That's right, chicking them up Jesus.
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: But you know what life's going to be like. You know,
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: they had like these really advanced things.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: And uh like like the.
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: It had to have been like a crazy pilot program
• 44:43
  Speaker 6: or something, because I mean this is back in the
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: nineties when not everyone to use computers for everything. But
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: like the home teacher had these baby dolls and it
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: had some kind of recorder in its head, and it
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: had like impact sensors and all kinds of stuff, and
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: she down onto a computer and and like see a
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: graph and everything, like see if the baby would be
• 45:05
  Speaker 6: dead all.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: That kind at night for a long time and you
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: didn't get to it.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my high school girlfriend had one of those.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that wasn't the real baby your high school.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware it was in mine. It was
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: some guy named Mitel. She named it. No, that doesn't
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: make sense. I don't know. I'm starting to get Ronnie.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I mean it is. It is very disruptive.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I do think that you're catastrophizing it quite a bit,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: which you know, you seem to point to in your
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: letter and say, look, I suspect as much. And so
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: I do think you're taking it the right amount of serious.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: So all those pieces in there. My last point done.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: This is just I feel like having children does change you.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I do think as a general rule, people come out
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: on the other side of this, falling in love with
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: the child. I think all these instincts take over. I
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: think a lot of things propel you into it, and
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: I don't you know, obviously, when you ask parents like, oh,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: do you regret it, it's extremely rare that somebody says yes,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Like when I do.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Hear that it's a recncy bias, just a recency bias.
• 46:22
  Speaker 6: It's also there's a bias and they're not wanting to
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: say like I sure do.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I would argue that same bias often stops them from
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: entertaining the fullness of that thought. Sure right, So I
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: think I think it comes a mental block. It's like
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine my life without this kid, because
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: if I started to, that would something starts to come
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: loose in my head. It's really uncomfortable. Yeah, it gets
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: really weird really fast.
• 46:45
  Speaker 6: So for whatever option is, boy, I sure can't picture
• 46:48
  Speaker 6: myself without having It gets dark fast.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: So you know, again, most people will not say that
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: they regret having the kid. I do hear people say
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: I regret how my life has changed. I miss my
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: old life or may negatively impact their relationship, and they
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: might say, man, I miss what we used to have,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: the time freedom we had figured ourselves out. Now our
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: whole lives are about this third person, and we are
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: just a support system for this person, and like we
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: do not matter, and like it's a whole different set
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: of skills to have a relationship with children. So all
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: of that is to say, I'm a big fan of
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: when somebody is confronting all these fears, society, I think
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: tends to pooh pooh this, and I think you're obg
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Wyan kind of did. And I think the society tends
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: to say, this is no big deal, you're overthinking it,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: don't worry, you've got some cold feet, go on and
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: go through with it. I find that distasteful. I don't
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: like that. I really want for somebody to authentically struggle
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: with and decide for themselves, and that decision may include
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do this, And like, for me, if
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: you're really struggling with like whether or not you think
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: you want to have kids, I start to say, then
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: let's pump the brakes, Like I don't want you to
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: just throw yourself over this threshold and just hope it
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: all comes out in the wash and it'll all be okay.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Even though that that may be true, it makes me
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit nervous because I'm kind of the opinion
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: that I kind of want every baby in society to
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: be one that is welcomed and wanted. That's crazy, and
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I want families that want those babies to have those babies, right.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: But like, I don't know, I get nervous if it's
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: something that like you don't think you want.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she.
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: Said in the beginning, I do want kids. There's no pressure.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: I do want at least one, I think because she
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: knew probably that was her out that was going to
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: be taken. But I hear, I do want kids. I'm
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: scared of the path to get the kid so and
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: I can, like, you know, relate to that a little bit.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of reasons that I she's not to
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: have kids, but one of them is I'm like pregnancy
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: weirds me out, like that is I mean being a
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: little open air like that is very weird to me,
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: that something grows in side of you and comes out
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: like I don't even want to think about it right now,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: like transformation, which then the writer mentioned this, like adoption
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: or like fostering really does strike a court of me
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: because I do enjoy children. I think that there are
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: a lot of children in need. So that is something
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: that we have discussed like or tease the idea of
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: at some point. So when you say, like I don't
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: want anyone force into that, I hear that is more
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: of Hopefully Wright, you're not feeling forced into giving birth right,
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: Like you said you were open to adoption, but your
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: spouse or partner is wanting a bio child, and so
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: that to me gets into some weird territory where it's
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: like I hear that, but you are the one carrying
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: the child. And if a lot of your stressors are,
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: like half of them are coming from that process, maybe
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: explore that with your partner more.
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: And and you guys seem.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: To be doing really well, like writer says, hey, fin,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: we have our degrees in order. I hear all that,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: and I think, siracy, that's your third option is great
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: third options. You and I have both known people that
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: have gone through surrogacy, and for many people, I mean
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: writers in their twenties, but we know a lot of
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: people that kind of did career stuff first got into
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: their thirties and sometimes didn't want to like deal with
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: geriatric pregnancy or body changes or yeah, they just found
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: the whole thing to be not something they wanted to do,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: and they wanted to be like at peak physical condition
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: when baby needed them right, and they don't want to
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: be like I'm recovering from this own bullshit that I'm
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: going through, and so like surrogacy is another option. That
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: is such a great I'm sure some states it gets tricky,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Like I realized that there's been a lot of interesting
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: politics in Nevada though surrogacy is widely available. Yes, very straightforward.
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: People come from other states to Nevada.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: To Is that the case?
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, but my friend the bioparent was from another state.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, yes, that's probably something to consider too.
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I think Eileen wore towards don't feel pressured
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: to give birth. It's like the angle I would take.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: And then the writer asks about kind of like is
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: this tipping into OCD territory and maybe maybe it is
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: kind of in that symptom range, like, hey, we're experiencing
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: some form of this for this moment, and kind of
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: what Jim said, Yeah, maybe what the route I usually
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: go to when dealing with those symptoms and session is
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: let's just say with that, like, yeah, my body is
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: going to be different after Is that a bad thing?
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: I don't know. You have to decide what it equals
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: bad or good?
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Like maybe it's just it's just different.
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: Wh's just different. You're going to change.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: Your body is not always going to look like this
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: for the rest of your life anyway.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard I've heard couples kind of talk about
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: that too, where it's like, you know, you kind of like, Okay,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: we had our relationship before kids. Now we have our
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: relationship after kids, and it's different.
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: And it'll be different as the girl, and it's.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Not necessarily good or bad. It's just it's just different.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: You have a different kind of relationship, and you've got
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: to you've got to learn, you know, everything that you
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: learned in that last relationship. It's not completely out the window,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: but in a way, it kind of is, because now
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, now we have to learn what this
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: relationship looks like, and we have to foster this relationship.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: You can't continue to work on building the old relationship
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: because now we've got a new one. Yes, and it's
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: kind of a different it's just different, you know.
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, it's just different.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: And so I think kind of embracing those changes and
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: knowing I will.
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: Be sleep deprived.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: I do also hear from many parents and I'm like,
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: that's the next thing. Wow, going without sleep for at
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: least the first three months is what I hear for sure,
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: And almost every parent, father or mother that I talk
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: to is they kind of say, oh, it's really not
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: as bad as you think. Like I can tell they're
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: sleep deprived, like I knew them before children, so I
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: can see they're tired, they're all these things. But they're like,
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: you just kind of do it. You just your body
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: goes into like some kind of auto pilot or auto
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: drive and you're just functioning. And I know that doesn't
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: sound like a joy, but you kind of get through.
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: We humans are very very resilient and flexible, inflexible.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Our ancestors did this ship on the Serengetti, you know,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: and they're just get on the hip fucking walking where
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: they're yeah, exactly, you know, and so like, ye know,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: we can get through it.
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: And Jim, just real quick, somebody just emailed me a question.
• 53:29
  Speaker 6: Continent is the Sengetti?
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Italy. It's why the food is named bowl
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: of Serengetti. You know, some Parmesian on it. Really good.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: The writer thanks you for Yeah, OK, I love the
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: rapid response.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Really got policy. Last thing that I see in this
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: letter that I think is really important to highlight is
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: the writer talks about I'm fearful that this child will
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: inherently negatively in some ways at least affect my life.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: And I'm very vulnerable because I have been bullied, I've
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: been picked on, I've been exploited. And so it sounds
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: like Writer has a lot of self awareness, has done
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: great therapy and says, look, I'm very aware that I
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: can very quickly personalize something right, And I'm sure that
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: that's been thorny in your life. I'm sure being in
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: a long term relationship with your husband it's thorny because
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: if your husband's like, oh, I forgot to pick up milk?
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Can you pick that up? And like you might be
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: ultra sensitive to like why is my time not important
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: to you? It's like, well, maybe that's not it, you know,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Like it's like, sorry, you're not doing anything wrong, It's
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: just I am sensitive, right, Like you know now I
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: am very protective of myself because old me got exploited.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: So Writer, this is going to be a hole, Like
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Nick had said, a whole new chapter of this experience.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: I think that when people are exposed to a child,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: if you have a pet at this might be similar.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Like your needy puppy isn't exploiting you or bullying you
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: by yapping and wanting your attention or wanting you to
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: pick it up, and noticing its need and its reliance
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: upon you and its vulnerability usually taps into something inside
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: of you that feels like you're protecting them or giving
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: them what you never had. And most parents will share
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: that in that sense. They don't resent the child for
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: being dependent on them or needing them. There's this sense
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: of I'm going to like cathartically heal myself by being
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: for you what I didn't ever have, like, and I've
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: lived that as a parent. Like you know, in my childhood,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: we moved every year of my life until I was
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: like nine. Travel blows, I've been there. It all sucks
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: like Nevada's home. Yes, kill me, yeah, very easy. So
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: like for me, I'm really really grateful for stability in
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: my kids lives and that was something I always wanted
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: to give them and like make sure they always grew
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: up in the same house and like went to the
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: same school their whole life and had the same friends
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: and same neighborhood on the same vac Yes, honestly, that's
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: part of it. Is just like like traditions like.
• 56:04
  Speaker 6: Routinely spend on your vacationing throughout.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: The year, just throughout a calendar year.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not not enough.
• 56:12
  Speaker 6: What if I said you could have all those vacations
• 56:14
  Speaker 6: for three thousand dollars a year.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: I.
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: Share it, Yeah, Jim, actually would be an ideal time.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll never go Oh yeah, it's called a hotel.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: There's no need to do anything else. I don't need
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: a contract. I'll just go to the hotel. I feel
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: like we could get something out of this.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you could try, but no, Like I cathartically
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: have felt a sense of healing on an area of
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: my life that I think has defined me and and
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: changed a lot of my personality and gave me some
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: vulnerabilities and I'm sensitive to in life, and so I've
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: been able to react to that right and I've given
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: my children something that I didn't have growing up that
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: I yearned for. So writer, there's something I think unique
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: about this dynamic you end up having with a child,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: where you might say, I'm going to make sure nobody
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: exploits this kid. I'm going to make sure this kid
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: learns boundaries. I'm going to be the adult who protects
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: them from the world around them or whatever. And there
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: is something replenishing about that, and something empowering about that,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: And so anyway, I just want to throw that out
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: there too, because I can sense that there's a lot
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: of fear that this baby's going to take from you,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: and that you're going to perceive it that way as
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: if it was like intentional. And again I don't know
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: your psychology. I'd be curious what your personal therapist kind
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: of thinks about that, because maybe they would look at
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: that and say, yeah, we need to deal with that first,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: you know, before we start moving into family building.
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: Well, kind of something adjacent to what you just shared
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: that I hear and see from a lot of parents
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: is not so much yes, healing can happen too, but
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: more like kids bring out your own issues. And so
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: the writer's actually already kind of setting that up. And
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: in some ways I love that because they're already anxiously.
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: But that's okay thinking ahead and saying, wow, I'm worried
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: I'm going to like feel bullied by my child. And
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: the reality is if you think of any like two
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: or three year old, any parent that's already struggling with
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: that issue will feel that way from your child, and
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: you'll be like, oh my god, there too, Why am
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: I like so reactive to this kid who's manipulating me
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: when they are doing it just being a kid. But
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: I'm going to take it personally because that is something
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: that's like triggering for me. Yes, So I love that
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: you're mentioning these things. And yeah, like Jim said, maybe
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: talking to a therapist about that beforehand would be a lovely,
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: lovely place to start, because you're like, hey, these are
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: my worries. How do I sort of process some of
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: this and then continue once your child is born because
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: it will pop up again. But yeah, I can come
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: back and pick up where I started from and going
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: with a few tools and see how it goes. Because
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: you're not wrong for being worried about those things. Those
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: are very valid concerns, but there are things you can
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: do to prepare for it and then work through it
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: once you're there.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and remember or poop comes from inside of you,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: it's already in there, you know.
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: So I mean it's just liquid, it's not real poop.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Make the baby baby's poop?
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: Did a baby eat when they just it's.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: The umbilical course, Yeah, it's just your poop anyway, it's
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: just going to experts in this.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: I feel like, which is a good reminder. If you're interested,
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: check out Jim's deep dive. Your poop is my poopy.
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: It is everyone.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: Everybody poops. Sometimes we're gonna take a quick break and
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: when we come back, we're gonna end the show on
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: a light note with a question called do I need
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: to forgive my abuser? You're listening to pod therapy.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Mason Miller, Test Miller, Biler,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: t Harris, Te Monico, Oscar swanros Anna, Marie, Emma Kin
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: and Myra. And if you would like to sponsor the show,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: become a theraproducer a Patreon dot com splash therapy.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: So Jacob has roughly ten million points.
• 59:58
  Speaker 6: Nick Whitty and I are tied for Oh Jacob, Yes,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 6: spell Disney, son of a bitch.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: I see what you're trying to do her Tangent.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 6: I'm going to go around your trick question Capital D.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Have you seen those shirts that are like Disney sweaters
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: that are saying you never seen the ones that say
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: like I Love the D.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: No, And it's like the Little Disney D. Yeah, I
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: love the D Jacob which Pixar movie featured a hidden
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: Easter egg of the infamous Pizza Planet truck.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Oh boy.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: Toy story.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's where that's the truck originated. There's yeah,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: a Bugs Life.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 6: Hey, I want at least a ceremonial credit for knowing
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: what movie came.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Definitely Tip of the Cat, tip of the.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Cap, a Life, Monsters, Ink Inside Out, or all of
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: the above.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: All of the above correct, he knows how to test.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Also, when you go to Disney, that is one of
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: the better places to eat. Is Pizza Planet?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: Not anymore?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: No, not anymore?
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah right, Oh, I don't know about that, but there's
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 6: all this new stuff. Okay in the Avengers area. No,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 6: that's California Adventure. When you're in that is where the
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 6: food is. Okay, food, the good food lives in California.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 6: That's the adult park. It's also where they.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: Have one is it Pizza Planet just Planet Fitness? Yeah?
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think Pizza Planet.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Fitness, Pizza Plant.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: You can't shame me. I got great deals on pizza.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: By the way, we're not there, We're not pull up.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, that was never it was Wait how far?
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: How many have you done? Any more things on your list? Uh?
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: I need to review it.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: I have the calendar on my.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: On it right now, long as quickly asn't dissipated. That's
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: why we need the count.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: Research.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: A lot of these things require research. I looked a group,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: so there's that. Okay, thinking about.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 6: That, That's how I do.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: Michaels a lot.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: Consider he's got.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 8: Closet.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: I bought some new clothes for it. They were very expensive.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: I haven't used. I probably want.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Contemplation, stage of change, and maybe some preparation.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Whitney What Disney Broadway Show was based on a live
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: action Disney film and focuses on a group of paper
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: boys striking for better conditions?
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: What the fuck?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: Is that like the news or something? News?
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: It is? Yes, I'm just gonna say correct before you
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: change your mind.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 5: I haven't actually seen that, Okay, I want to.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: I did not scroll down all the way, so I
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: just got just the question for my question. Which Disney
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: Park is home to the Tower of Terror, which was
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: re themed to Guardians at the Galaxy Mission breakout? I
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: think I did no, because I don't know.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 6: What was the park that Jim just mentioned A second
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 6: ago Californian Adventure.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Points bonus.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Also, that ride is fucking terrified.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: That ride is awesome.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, God, that was terrifying.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 10: It is an.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 6: Elevator that just goes all the way up and just
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 6: believed I believe it was manufacturer also by Otis Elevator Company.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: Oh really, the company that makes every elevator I've ever
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 6: been in.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is just a monster elevator that literally just cling.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Do you just drop you?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: It just drops you and then drop stops and then
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: jerks you back, and like just it's a And then
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: there's all these doors that open and you see all
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: these different scenes. It is a it's a lot, and
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: just like I fucking was terrified. There you go, there's
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: a photo.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: Little niece, she's digging into.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: The person in the green shirt. Is that someone? This
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: person that looks like you.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: I don't know these people right here like that, nephew.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 6: My brother and sister in law asked you, I am
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 6: just going to the seatbelt.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah. My sister in law is not happy.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: No, I hated that.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 6: I spent the entire time because my my little twelve
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 6: year old niece, she like she'd come to me earlier
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 6: in the day. She was like, I really want to
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 6: go on that ride, but I'm going to be scared
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 6: before we do it.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: You can't let me back out of it. Okay.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, we're going on the ride.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I d yeah, I love this ride.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Make a few phone calls, comes back like, hey, is
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: this picture of your dog s that gun next to
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: his head getting on this ride?
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: You got another ride?
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: Oh my god?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, oh he will be mind. Nothing's gonna happen now.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 6: As long as you get as long as you do
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 6: what you said you're gonna do, because you fulfill you
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 6: asked for my help.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: You knew what this was. You're wealthy. I'm helping you
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: achieve your goals. Kid.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: Every time she would scream, though, I would just scream
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: with her.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was so much fun. No, dude,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: that that fucking ride hurts, all right, Jim, what year
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: did Epcot open? Walt Disney?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, I feel like it's an eighties thing. I'm
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: gonna need options.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, you're sure about the eighties thing? No, nineteen eighty,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, nineteen eighty five.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Damn it, God, damn it.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: There are ten options.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: Nineteen eighty, nineteen eighty.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 6: One, nineteen eighty four, all of them.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna go early eighties. Give me eighty two. Yes,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: never been to Epcot though, have you ever been?
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: I have? That's the only Disney place. He didn't go
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: to the.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Real park, but you went to Epcot.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's why grown up so that that.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: One's got the food, right, It does have the food. Yes,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: it's just different worlds.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: When I was a kid, don't time I've ever been
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: to Disney World. We went to like the Magic Kingdom
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: and Epcot.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's when there was nothing in Epcott, like
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 6: it was the future.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: Nineties.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: It's world have been like mid nineties, early nineties.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: It would have been like ninety two. See, I don't
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: remember anybody from my hometown ever going to disney Land.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Everybody else in the world.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: We were closer to Florida than we were in California
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: could drive there.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 6: Like now my my family from Texas, Estay's family comes
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 6: out to Disneyland.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: That part of it is we're out here. That's great.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: Also traveling is just easier.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 5: It is.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. I don't care for either place. It
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: turns out it is a lot of walking, and I
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: don't care for all that walk.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 6: I have my little, my little health ring that I
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 6: wear oh yeah, so that our day in Disney, I
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 6: like fifteen point seven miles.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, I am really liking it.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's helped a lot with my sleep.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: Have you ever used a whoop zoom type?
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: So? Yeah, what do you have an aura ring? Yeah?
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it goes right in your butthole then? Yeah,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: so interesting.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: I mean it doesn't have to but accurate butthole. Asked
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: if it did the birth.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Conls working great? I have yet to get pregnant. It's
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: going really really well.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: I hadn't gotten LAIDs to put that ring in my butthole.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: Zero chance the kid is mine. How do you mean
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: it's helped with your sleep?
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 6: It monitors your sleep and uh, and it's like any problem,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 6: like once you once you start to understand the aspects of.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: The like I drink alcohol, I ate, and then it
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: will tell you, oh, you worse when you did.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 6: It doesn't do that, but it'll tell you. It doesn't
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 6: correlate it like that. You can though, you can make
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 6: that correlation.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: You can see date. Yes, absolutely so.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 5: Then how does it helpless sleep? Because it sings to you.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: It does in the butthole five sleep? Can we get
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: on their I mean, we haven't sold many T shirts,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: but I'll bet we could sell it. We had a
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: new ring that warms your buttole.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: Doing.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Why have we not already started selling this that can
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: charge any that is.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 5: A hazard that we don't want any part.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: That's something you get as a therapy partner. I think
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: we just send you a button.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: In a contract to sign please never use.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 6: But just like like if you say, oh, I'm not sleeping,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 6: well you're not really identifying actual issues. And this it
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 6: keeps track of like when I'm going to sleep, how
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 6: much movement there is while I'm asleep, which can relate
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 6: to like sleep positions, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: You can kind of extra late out from that.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then you can experiment with things and you'll notice,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: oh I slept better that night.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: It monitors blood oxygen levels.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 6: Oh okay, So like if you have sleep apnea, which
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 6: I don't, and this has kind of confirmed that I don't,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 6: which is nice, but you know my normal is about
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 6: ninety six percent.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: That's really cool. Yeah, I've read this study that was
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: talking about like the different phases of sleep and how
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: we sort of go through these cycles and descend into it.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Then kind of reassess. Yeah, and I thought, wow, that
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: is so wild. And then I saw some reports from
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: people's aura rings. It was like, yep, this is what
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: that looks like in real time, and it's like, son of.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 6: A bitch, oh yeah, Like I can pull up graphs
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 6: of it is so cool my nightly sleep and it
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 6: shows me like, let me find it here. It shows
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 6: me like deep sleep, rim sleep. So like last night
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 6: my sleep wasn't that great. It was in bed for
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 6: eight hours and twenty one minutes, which that's great.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Your heart rate furiously go up for about ninety seconds there.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: Let's let's see. Yes, yeah, I bet she's tossing hard. Yeah,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: but is that.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: When strip Teas was on USA, Like not great restfulness.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: I went to sleep really late. That was part of it.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 6: And then like this craft down here just shows you
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 6: as you read across it, like all those little spikes
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 6: in there, those all times when I was awake.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Around my fit does that too.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's it's the same thing that a lot
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 6: of things do. It's just a little easier. It's it's
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 6: some extra stuff and it's just a little ring, so
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 6: it's a little easier.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Just the butt.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, more comfort.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 5: The color makes sense, the color of the ring.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: But all right, let's finish off on the.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: I mean it would feel good, like, let's not be
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: weird about it, like obviously it would be great and
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: it should be invented and that's not market Ami ay
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: me apple butt watch?
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Sorry anyway? Do I need to forgive my abuser?
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, yeah, thank you for reminding.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: Me that, please me. Wow as Jacob's aura. It's weird
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: that he's putting the mic all the way down there,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: but whatever, all.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: Right, Oh yeah, I'm gonna let him get it out
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: of his system because I start this is gonna be
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: pretty dark. I know it's gonna be bad. All right,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: every ready, buckle up, here we go. Do I need
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: to forgive my abuser? My father emotionally and psychologically abused
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: me and my sisters growing up due to his addiction
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: to alcohol and his BPD and narcissism, which didn't help either.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: I've been no contact for six to seven years, but
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: I still have to hear about him since my sisters
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: still have contact. I've accepted that if I want my
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: life to be stayed, I cannot have him in it.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: He is never going to be able to love me
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: the way I want him to. But the issue is
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: that my whole family insists that I need to forgive
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: him to fully move on in my life. My question
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: is if I really need to forgive him after everything
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: he's done. My question is do I really need to
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: forgive him after everything he's done? If I do, can
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: you explain why and how to start? Thanks? Anonymous?
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: Depends on what you mean by forgive. That's my first thought.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: My opinion is, no, you don't have to forgive him.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: Is this disrupting your life? Or are you doing it
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: because these other people have said, oh you should, and
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: all these other people have they're kind of like gaslighting
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: you into thinking you need to have this forgiveness. And again,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: what is forgiveness? What do they mean by that? Do
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: they mean I get this? They're trying to say, you
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: need to forgive him and have contact again, and like
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: just make it normal for all of us, because this
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: is disrupting our life. We can't have big fu family functions,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: We can't like talk about dat openly with you, We
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: can't like In my opinion, when I see dynamics like this,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: it's more about those other family members wanting you to
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: be back to normal because they want that, not because
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: it's what's best for you. So I don't know that's
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: my initial thought just off the bat. But you're writing
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: and asking this, what makes me think you're considering it
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: or thinking about it or wondering maybe maybe there could
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: be benefits to it?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: But do you think there's benefits to so?
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So here's what I would say, because I think
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: you're onto something about what do you mean by forgive?
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: Because I don't think you need to forgive necessarily air
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: quotes here. I don't think you need Oh yeah, I
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: think what you need to do is I think you
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: need to remove the power that it has over you. Sure,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: whether that be through forgiveness or through some other means.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: I think that's the thing that needs to happen. I
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: have heard some people talk about this, and we've talked
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: about it, like in groups that I've facilitated and stuff,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: you know, just about forgiveness because obviously, in substance use treatment,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: so many people that we work with have gone through
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: terrible traumatic events and it's like, well, do I need
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: to forgive? And we really kind of talk about forgiveness
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: in the sense of like it's not about that other person.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: We kind of used forgiveness in that sense of almost
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: more of a letting go, Like they didn't actually contact
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: the person and say I forgive you. They had no
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: contact with that person whatsoever. It was more about I'm
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: going to choose today that I'm not going to carry
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: this with me anymore. And so we kind of looked
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: at trauma as being like a backpack, you know that,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: Like it's just full of bricks and you are carrying
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: it around everywhere you go. At some point you realize
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: that you I can't get as far ahead or as
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: far as you want to go, or as far as
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: everyone else is going, because they're not carrying this bag
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: of bricks you are. It's only slowing down you. The
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: person who gave these bricks to you, they're not slowed down.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: They're moving along just fine. But you have to carry
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: this stuff. At some point you get to a realization
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: where it's like, well, why do I have to carry
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: this shit? Yeah, you know, it's it's only affecting me,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: it's not affecting the person who gave it to me.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: Data is just fine, exactly, And so they get to
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: just walk along this trail at a faster pace. You know,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: and I'm stuck doing all the work. And then you
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: kind of get to this point of like, no, there
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: are no rules here. There's nothing that says that I
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: have to carry this, right, and you just can choose.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna put it down.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: I was gonna say, the reason you carry it is
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: because you picked it up and carried it.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And if this bag just decides to come to
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: life and starts walking alongside you and it's going to
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: be with you, you're the rest of the journey, that's fine.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: But at least you don't have to carry it here
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: at list. It's not going to slow you down. That,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: to me, is what forgiveness is about. It's about choosing
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: to set it down and walk away from it, as
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: opposed to continuing to carry it.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 6: And I don't think you get freaked out by the
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 6: walking bag. Yes, that's normal.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: Normal.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: I mean we've been we've been doing Disney trivia all night.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: As well played damn and he is a Disney princess
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: over there.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: He's got it all. I mean that stuff.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 6: Sure, Yeah, you could do that. You get it like
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 6: the inside out to stuff and.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: Then you're yeah, so writer, I think there's a lot
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: of layers to this. I mean, on one hand, when
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: we talk about what is the practical what does it
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: look like if again to borrow from Nick, not necessarily
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: to forgive, but to move beyond right, to no longer
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: be limited by what this person has done and the
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: impacts they've had in your life. It's tricky because I
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: don't know that there's one healthy way to do it.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: And this goes back to what Whitney was saying, that
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: a healthy path is to recognize I've decided for me,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: this doesn't work. My sisters have decided otherwise. I respect
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: my sisters. I trust their mental health and their journey
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: if that works for them. For their reasons. They've done
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: the cost benefit analysis. They've decided they tolerate Dad's presence
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: in their lives, and they've decided to go through the
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: tricky work of establishing boundaries with him as an adult
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: and not tolerating certain kinds of behaviors. All right, peace
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: be with them, let them go in power. For me,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: I've decided not to even have to negotiate those boundaries.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: I don't want to, and I've chosen to, you know,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: exile this person for my life. I don't think that's
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: necessarily wrong. I don't think that's necessarily a sign of
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: immaturity or a sign of like some kind of I
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: don't know, like you're emotionally stunted or you haven't done
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: the work. I'm very comfortable with you just landing on
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: that decision with two healthy feet and me saying I approve,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: you know, this is fine, green check mark verified. Alternatively,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: I do think you're allowed to wrestle with the effect
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: of that. So, as Nick was kind of giving his
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: example of the backpack, another thought I kind of had
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: that I think is analogous but isn't going to be perfect.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: But I'm gonna start with the metaphors. I think it's
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: relatable at first. It's like when you boycott something like
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: you're just like, hey, I'm really upset at the oil
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: industry or something like that. They don't care about our climate,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: They're destroying the world. Trump's you know, drill, baby drilling,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm tired of the shit, and so like, I'm
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: going to take a stand. I'm not going to participate
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: this anymore. Right, And then it's like really hard to
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: not participate in an economy that's fueled by gasoline, right, yeah,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: and so like, you can stand on your principles for
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: a while, but at some point it starts to have
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: a real effect on your ability to live your life.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: Now I can't drive to my friends, I can't you know,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: send an Amazon package like whatever. You start to get
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: stuck in all of the parameters you're creating for this
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: principle that you think is correct. And you're right, the
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: same thing can happen with this kind of family boycott stuff.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: And I want to respect the implications of that right
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: that the family might not just be being pissy or sassy.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: There really can be problems in your life whenever you
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: excommunicate a member of your family, like not being allowed
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: to go to Thanksgiving, like they can't talk to you
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: about their real lives like you you know, just it
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: could have a real train wreck in your life. And
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: so I do think you're allowed to wrestle with the
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: implications of the boycott. And I don't think it's a
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: betrayal of your values or disrespect to yourself or even
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: necessarily unhealthy for you to say. I did this for
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: a time, and I've decided that this is now causing
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: some kind of difficulty in my life to continue down
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: this road. I am going to continue to take a stand,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: a principled stand, but I'm going to do this through
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: alternative measures. I'm going to do this in new ways
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: now that allow me to kind of interact with the
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: rest of the family. And that probably if you ever
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: went down that road, to me, that doesn't look like forgiveness.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: Going back to what you were saying, Nick, I don't
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: look at that as the path forward is forgiveness. I
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: look at that as the path forward as negotiated boundaries.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: You can exist in a world with somebody that abused you,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: or harmed you, or did wrong to you. A lot
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: of us do that with siblings or things that have
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: like fucked up. You know, our lives as kids, and
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: it isn't that we've forgiven them, it's that we can
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: coexist with them with very clear understood boundaries. There are
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: parts of our relationship that will never be the same,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: parts of my life that you will not have access to.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: And there are ways and places that I can interact
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: with you with clear understanding and rules and like that
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: to me is not forgiveness. That to me is a
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: negotiated boundary. And going back to Knick's point, about addiction work.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: A lot of the folks that we treated that had addictions,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: yes they had survived trauma, but many of them had
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: perpetuated trauma.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: Sure, many of them, I would say, that's the majority
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: of everyone there, it is. I mean, you know, anyone
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: who perpetuates drama probably was the recipient.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: Yea, yeah, Hurting people hurt people. But this was something
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: that was a smoking gun problem in a lot of
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: our treatment programs. Was here, their families checked them into rehab,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: and now we're getting that person healthy, and the famili's
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: all sitting there going, hey, like the last shred of
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: love that we had for this person got them into
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: this rehab. We don't want anything to fucking do with
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: them anymore. They stole grandma's pearls. They you know, pawned
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: them all. They burned the house down, blah blah blah.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: They've stolen from us, borrowed from us, lied to us, cheated, stole,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: crashed our cars. You know, we're still bailing out of debt.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: So like, there's been a lot of hurt, pain, abuse,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: like from their kids, their family members, their spouses, and
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: sometimes we have to sit with those people and sort
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: of advocate for the person in addiction who's recovering, while
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: also honoring the fact that these people have legitimate grudges, right,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: And what we usually tell them is because they'll they'll
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: ask us that question in family therapy, when we're doing
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: family reconciliation work or family education work. They'll say, so,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: I'm supposed to forgive this person. I'm supposed to accept
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: when you guys teach me that this person had a disease,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: and I'm supposed to like pity them, like fuck that person.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: They crashed my car and stole you know, mom's wedding
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: ring and pond it. You know, I can't forgive that
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: shit or whatever. They treated me like shit and took
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: advantage of me and gas let me as part of
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: their addiction. How can I just forgive them because they
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: had a disease. And I think what we often teach
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: them is absolutely not. We don't want you to forgive them.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: That's never going to be the point. We want you
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: to consider whether or not you want to live in
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: a world where they live with you, but then have
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: conditions and like conditional acceptance of the relationship, not unlimited
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: or like unconditional love, but conditional love boundaries and rules,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: and if they break those rules, then you need to withdraw.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: And actually, as addictions counselors, we usually think you should
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: because they need to experience consequences.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: The way that I've always answered that question, if a
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: family member asked me, do you expect me to forgive
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: this person, my answer is I don't expect you to
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: forgive the person. I expect you to allow for the
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: opportunity for them to earn it. Oh. I like that, Yeah,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: because that's really all they can do.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, and it will be imperfect. And you don't
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: owe them this, but you may decide that it is
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: advantageous to your life or for your reasons, you've chosen
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: to create this space. And writer, that's how I look
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: at this too. You don't owe this to your father.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: I don't think that. But forgiveness is the right mentality,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: the right approach. I could see you sitting down, as
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: you seem to be doing in this letter and saying,
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: there are reasons that it would make my life easier
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: or beneficial to create a space of conditional acceptance of
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: my dad's presence. But that would have to be very
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: limited in scope. It would have to have some pretty
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: clear boundaries. I would need to internally think about what
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: that means, and I might need to talk to my
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: father one on one if I ever got to that
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: point and say, look, I'm going to allow you back
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: in my life a little bit. I'm going to share
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: space with you. We're going to start with very broad
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: stuff where I'm going to show up at you know,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: Thanksgiving or whatever. I will send you updates about you know,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: family members. I do not want to hear back from you,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: or these are things I don't want to hear you
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: say right And as soon as you violate that, I
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: do not feel it's my responsibility to educate you or
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: give you ten more chances or teach you. I'm just
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: going to reinstall that silence and reinstall that distance. So writer,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: you don't owe that to anybody. But if you decide
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: that it is advantageous to your life or helps you
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: be closer to your family, destresses your life or whatever,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: or you feel emotionally ready to try that, then to me,
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: that is not forgiveness. That is installing conditions. That is
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: conditional acceptance, boundaried living, negotiation of principles and behaviors. If
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: you decide to enter into that kind of space. I
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: think that is not forgiveness. I think that is you
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: taking a stand and saying this is the kind of
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: relationship I am available for. But Writer, as you said
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: in your letter, you may decide I have thought that
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: through I am not available for anything. And then if
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: that's the case, as Whitney was saying, then our job
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: is not to help you point towards your father and
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: talk to him. Our job is to help you point
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: back towards your family and talk to them and how
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: to take a principled stand against people that are pushing you,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: maybe out of selfishness, maybe because they think it's what's
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: best for you, maybe for religious reasons. We've still got
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: to push back on them.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, it's a lot to that.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: Writer.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a shitty situation. And you know, writer
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: said dad was an alcoholic, you know, BPD, narcissism, Like, yep.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: There's things Yeah, yeah, I was going to say with
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: borderline and narcissism, I mean never going to say never,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: But that'd be really hard to set boundaries of people
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: who struggle in those areas if.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 5: They're not aware.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: The main criteria is that they don't respect.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: Boundaries are no wonder you've been no contacts, and people
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: around here making me feel crazy for it, like should
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: I know it was.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: Very hard to establish boundaries there. But also I think,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: like who we are as children, we are very powerless
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: as kids, right, and so when we get into our
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: adulthood we take our power back, and sometimes we do
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: that by establishing boundaries. If you've done that and you've
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: silenced Dad for this long, the odds are very good
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: that Dad gets that you can do that, right, And
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: sometimes whenever it's like, hey, you have punched me in
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: the nose. I am very aware you could punch me
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: in the nose right. What would be the way we
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: can interact where you don't do that again? Great, now
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: that you take me seriously, Now that you know I'm
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: capable of shutting you down and never talking to you again.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: This is the baby step. This is what first interactions.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: Do not bring this shit up, Do not say these things,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: Do not talk to me this way. If you can
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: do that, we can start, but not just giving away
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: the farm and saying yep, oh you're right, I forgave him.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: Now he can act any old fucking way. No, And
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: if your sisters choose to say like no, I've I've
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: forgiven dad, and so I just accept Dad for who
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: he is. So, you know what, he treats me like
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: shit and he acts any old fucking way, and I
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: just have to accept that as his daughter. Great, that's
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: your decision, that does not have to be mine. Yeah,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: and if you try to impose that value on me,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: you can kindly go fuck yourself kindly. Yeah, don't be
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: a jerk now when you're telling people to go fuck yourself,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: tell him gently, fuck him gently. We're gonna take a
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: quick break and when we come back, we are wrapping
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: up the show. You're listening to Pop Therapy.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by the following therap
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: producers to various Miss King Tyroyal, Smoochie Wallace, The Squares,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: Green Junior by Zeus Jack Merris, Tech Beatrix, The of
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: T Billings Clyde did Jasper Probe and Leon Maxwell Gilliams, Jeffares, Jamar, Jaffarrison,
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• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: And if you would like to spouse the show, become
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: a producer Patreon dot com, slash key and Peel, do
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: not sue us as we wrap up the show, listeners, Yeah, yeah,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: we should be very worried. Yeah, I would welcome that loss,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: to be honest, that would be the best thing to a.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: Nobody's ever heard of them podcast that Key and Peel
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: like annihilated.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: You can have all the money in the bank, all
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: As you wrap up the show, we want to remind
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: you can sign up a Patreon dot com slash there,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: but you can get our extended show ad free a
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  Speaker 1: date earlier, as well as enjoy our live chat discord
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: community and our weekly deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: roundups and rants. And we've got some new friends to
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: the therap party who has joined us at patreon dot
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: com slash therapy.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: We have my personal life savior, Sherry Hair. Oh yeah,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: who caught So we're in the pod therapy fitness challenge.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, fitness challenge in your butt.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: She caught a huge mistake. So I've been recording a
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: lot of these videos, like workout videos, posting them and
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: then she reached out to me. He's like, hey, these
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: aren't playing. I was like, oh shit, hullo. So I
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: spent like two hours working on this shit. Oh wow,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: messaging her back and forth. Okay, try it now, Okay,
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: try it now, Okay, try it now. Turns out, and
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: for those of you who are doing the Fitness Challenge
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: and didn't see my message on there, if you happen
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: to do the Fitness Challenge back in twenty twenty three,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: the app has updated and if you have the old app,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: it won't play the video. That's so there you go.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: Also, Sherry very helpfully messaged us about the Patreon because
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: she was like, Hey, you know, Jacob had mentioned a
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: while ago that maybe there's an annual option. I'm looking
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: for it. I've torn the damn website apart. Why can't
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: I do that? I early want to just do an
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: annual with you guys and just do it all at once.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: And so we were able to kind of dialogue, and
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: I have now torn apart Patreon from the other side
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: of it. For whatever reason, we do not have that option.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: So if you're if you're out there and you're like, hey,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: I've been waiting to jump into Patreon, I'm just waiting
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: for you guys to activate the annual option. We have
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: looked into it. We have contacted Patreon for whatever reason,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: we don't have it. What did Patreona? They just did not.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: They just did not say yeah, yeah, so do not
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: wait if you're out there and you've like, yeah, I've
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: just been waiting to jump on.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: They said we're too little for them to really.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: And in another side note, if you'll find out.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 6: Why, because because we have it on ice Cream Social,
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 6: we have all that no idea why.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: I've done every checklist.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 4: I'll see if we have a different version or something.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: Another thing that came up in some of these dialogues
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: is if you're an Apple user, I guess Apple. You know,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: they have their Apple Store and they want a taste
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: of everything that goes monetarily through the store, including Patriots.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, if you do the app, Yeah, don't do the app.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: Don't do the app.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 4: Do it through a browse.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: If you're gonna sign up for Patreon and you're an
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: Apple user, open it on your computer, sign up, then
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: download the app and log in and then you won't
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: have any extra fee. You can you can monitor it
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: on the app.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but do the purchasing through a web browser.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: Do it through the way, and you.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 4: Can even do it like the web browser on your phone.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 4: That's fine, don't don't go through the app to purchase.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 6: Cause they'll still add a little extra taste and then
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 6: they take a little extra that Apple wants.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: But you know, actually they take a lot extra. Yeah,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: don't give it.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: A big thank you to our new director of Quality Assurance,
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: Shery Hair.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: Another new therapod FFE or five? Five thinks I'm gonna
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: go with five or fifth.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: It might be FIFA.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do a mixture of both, but either way,
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 6: Do they haven't do they have like an enemy like
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 6: a Nemesis.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: Ohom best audio guy in the business name. Somebody will
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: So it is the first week of the new month
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: here in the month of Love, February, and of course
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: the first week of every month. We like to take
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: a little moment to think all of our therapods, theradactyls,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: and of course we think our therap producers, their partners
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: and theity at the end of every show. But I'm
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: going to run through our therapod's list, and uh, first
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: one to think is the dark Lord himself.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: Jim's Fasha don't know why that's on there, Okay, thank you, Great.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: Sam Cohne University Jeff Robert, Paulson, Polygon, Richard Bruins, Linda
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: Brandmeyer Scoopsure Not, Joseph Panngrazio, Corey Owens, Christine Phillips, Gavin Bristow,
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: Carrie Terhart, can we Fruit, Scoop, Take It Ev Podcast,
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: James K. Craig, Little, Don Door, Jim Hunter Scoop, a
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: Tron Todd Canfield, Felicia Butler, David Sorensen, Shayla Bullock, Laurinizzo,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: Stacy Coleman, Adam Petanuzzo, Matt's Linegrens Scoopter, Ascending, Ian Soto,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: Jessica Seiphers Lee Popsicle That, Josh Guy Mama, Ninja Scoop,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: James Dawson, Sarah Olow, Grumpy Lake, Mead park Ranger, Sam Buck,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: Karen McCulloch, What Weekend, Some Nobody, Lila b Gay, Do Crimes,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: Kelly Gagner, Nippy, Brian Emra, Matthew Johnson, Alec Lancaster, j
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: D Congan, a Literal Pickle, Andreas Savedra, Molina, Matthias van
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: de Brandt, Max the Ginger Scoop, Julius Cappell, Ken Tinsley, Chimist,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: Protecting Scoop Smells Funny, Matthew Cubic, Chad Chad, The Safety
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: Lad Walker, Fluke Stacy, Philip Geiton, Tim Mystery, Almost Doctor Nurse,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: Joey Duffy, The Slowly Getting Their Therapist Bear, Joel McMillan,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: Christopher de Gersy, Kirka Grim, Tricia or T, Chris Conway,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: Melissa l. Geisler, Kirsten Johnson, d J Sewart, Mississippi Hippie,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: Lys Scott, A Frahill, Hawson, Fi Fi Eli, Heather w
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: Patty Glad, Kyle Todd, Ve, Anthony Camarada, David Williams, Kate Police, Kurnipillar, Trontastic,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: Buddy Dobbins, Eric Dyer, Glitch, Scoop, Nathan Mookie, Alena Balaiz,
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: bug Nuts, Stephen Landon, Adam Ballaz, Kenneth Wong, John Finlayson, Mysterious,
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: annelid kJ, Carmen Perry, Mister pof K, Pizzle Dizzle, Robert Cole,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: Temporary Reality, Jeff Darnell, jamiebe Jacob Hirk, Persephonie Hazard, Sinsidium,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: Ray j Shark, Recreated, Silka Daniels, Jenny Rose, Jacob Billingsley.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: What does scoop mean?
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: A krusty Croifont, Alex Tardine, Dylan Collopy, Wolfe O Five,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: Ben Sherman, Chris Courtney Dale, the King, Riley Cedar, Hayden,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: Nora Monico, Adam Goth, Sherry Hair, Our Savior, Jesse Miller.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: Livy Grace, Terrible, Tay Acrilla.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: Curve Linus, Hie Kasan Hakissan nailed It Any, Betty Chicken, Farmer,
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: Sam Jagan, Keely Kay, Matthews, Kevin Chill Food, John Caravadas,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: Fish Bum Fish, J W. Reynolds and Michael f oh Boy.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: Our third actls are Ice Blue Scoop, Brian Lehman Scoop,
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: Brady Andrea Anderson Scoop, Lindsay Frozen Cusser, Lorie Elsroth, Cy, Shaunagan.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 5: Scoopy, Scoopy, Jess Jess Okie Scoop.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 3: Dank Butta brooks Lyle, Adam Ribchick, Lovely Spark, Mister V
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: Jim and Manu, Adam Warren, the Offices of Counselor and Counselor,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: Manuel Cavassos, Chick, fil A Teo and Chad mag love It.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: And of course all praise be upon our Theaity, the
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: dark Lord himself, Jim's Fasha And we'd like to thank
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: the benevol and revere, generous and flagrantly pro Therapy dieheards
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: who love you all so much they give till it hurts,
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: the THERAP partners, Dirty Bee and Pickett. And we want
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: to thank our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati, members
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: of the fan club, the THERAP producers, Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: Robert Brownie Junior, Mint, Smitty Scoop, Ben Down, Joni Schneider,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: Kayla Lansberry, Malia Leon, cassab Mason Miller, Richard Fuckin' Macy,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlin, Tess Miller, Sammy Scoop, Ben Stanley,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: slap in your face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer, t
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: Mike Helm, Paris, Darren Cunningham, Lib Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar Falcon,
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: Scoop Hey yo Oscar swanros A, Sonny Boy, Slurpikaye motherfucker,
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: Sandra mcwoffle Dan Martin, Hanna, Marie Andrew Langmead, Emma Kin,
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: Alina codd A, Lorian Guy and Sam Combe.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: And if you would like to hear this episode on
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: cut in un edited and why wouldn't you enjoy our
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: spontaneous side projects. Go to patreon dot com slash therapy
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: and thank you for supporting mental health.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: Well that's all that's said we got for this week's session.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: You want to thank our landlord's Matt Mattingly's ice Cream
• 1:36:04
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• 1:36:07
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• 1:36:10
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• 1:36:13
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• 1:36:27
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• 1:36:29
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• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: the Tangment, I'm Jim, Thanks and we'll see you for
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: appointment next week.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: Fantasia was one of the earliest Disney movies.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: Too, there wasn't full length, that's why I A yeah,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was a full length features feature.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: That's why I ask for the clarification. Now it's a
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: smart movie.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 4: Like Steamboat Willie and stuff like that.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll send a real also waved.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 5: What about Sleeping Beauty? That one's pretty old.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: Sleeping Sleeping Beauty is older than Cindere. I'll bet you
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: those are the first three. I'll bet you that's I'll
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: bet it's snow White Sleeping Beauty.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 3: Where do you bet not a sports better, Disney better
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 3: on anything?
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: That's okay?
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: So the bet would be I'm thinking those are the
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: first three chronological movies. See, but I'm fucking myself. I
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: know I am, because it's gonna be something.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 5: Don't put your doctorate on the line, because.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: There's that, there's that.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: Don't have that doctor.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be some bullshit. It's gonna be like Winnie
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: the Pooh.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: You think you got another doctor and we haven't heard
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 5: Take his teaching life.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't because would take it from the one of
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: the first three.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: I should have like CEUs that he could just snatch
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: I've gotten over here.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: See.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: I'm also thinking the Sword and the Stone it's pretty early. Yeah,
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: that's pretty early.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 3: Man, Thin youngle book. Another one that's like the seventies
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: or something.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: Do you think that one's seventies? If that one's seventies,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: I'll bet Sore in the Stone is probably seventies.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 5: Let me see if I'm wrong about that one.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: Gosh, snow White Cinderella is probably the third one.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: But I don't know.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 5: See, I don't you gotta commit what is it?
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: I don't think I can you know what not?
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 5: The son is sixty three.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's way too late, that's way later. Yeah, I
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: don't want to, So let me just take a stab
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: at what I think the second one is. Because we
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: know that snow White's number one. Okay, I'll bet you
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: the second one is. Is it going to be Cinderella
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: or Sleeping?
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 4: And are you gonna bet on the second one?
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: Or you just try to name this is rhetorical. Okay,
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: that's not what that word means. I once was to Cinderella.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: I'll bet you Cinderella is the second one. And you
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: think what was the first one? Well, snow White, you're
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: already confirmed.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So snow White was released the Somber twenty first,
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 6: nineteen thirty seven.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 5: Okay, it's crazy.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 6: Cinderella was released February fifteenth, nineteen fifty.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: Whoa they get so Sleeping Beauty that was the middle one.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: Uh, it was snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 6: Then Pinocchio in nineteen forty, Fantasia also on nineteen forty.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that is a feature lengthy.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 6: I think it is, yeah, Reluctant Dragon, Dumbo and then Bambi.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: These are all before Cinderella.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 4: Bamby is forty two.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 6: WHOA, Yesderella is fifty Alice in Wonderland is fifty one,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 6: Peter Pan is fifty three, Lady in the Tramp is
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 6: fifty five.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 4: Sleeping Beauty is fifty nine.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 6: Wow, it did one hundred one Dalmatians, then Sowar in
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 6: the Stone, the Mary Poppins geez.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: And at some point I.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 6: Just have to stop naming the good movies that Disney
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 6: made this time period because of the rest We'll just
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 6: be here for the rest of the time.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: I don't consider like I realize you can't use the
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: word canonical, but like the animated Masterpieces collection because like
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: back in the nineties they used to refer to all
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: these as the masterpiece collection, and that was like sell
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: to sell DVD packages. You're probably right, But like I
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: came to associate as a kid that there's like the
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: real gold star Disney put everything into it movies, and
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: then there are the other movies that they released throughout
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: the year.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 6: I mean, honestly, if you go back and look at it,
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 6: because the thing was it was basically you'd have a
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 6: new Disney animated movie every other year, right, yeah, because
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 6: it's just like a fuck long time to do it.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And so I mean like most of them.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 6: Were pretty good, yeah, because like they're working on it, yeah,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 6: really hard.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: The soundtracks, like it's been really built in. Yeah, when
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: did Jungle Book happen?
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty seven?
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 4: That was the one that I stopped right before I said.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: All right, So the ones that we grew up with Whitney,
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: I think the ones in the order that we would
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: have remembered as kids. I think it goes Beauty and
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: the Beast, the Little Mermaid, Lion King.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 6: Little Mermaid is eighty lad then Lying ninety two, Yep,
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 6: the ninety four toy.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: Story, and that's the beginning of the Pixar era. Hercules
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: was going to say its after Lion King.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, Yeah, Well because that's the Pixar stuff.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: No, Hercules is not Pixar.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: Oh is it not?
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: No, that's part of what the quote unquote masterpiece collection.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: Oh gotchak. What was the order there?
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: I know you were saying, but I wasn't listening.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: Oh let me see back up.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 6: Little Mermaid was eighty nine, Beauty and the Beast is
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 6: ninety one, Aladdin is ninety two, Nightmare before Christmas is
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 6: ninety three, Sneaks in there, Lion King is ninety four,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 6: Toy Story is ninety five. The big one that came
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 6: between Lion King and Toy Story was pokemonas Pokemon.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: And then we've got Hercules and Mulan in there too.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's further down.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 6: Then also the classic movie Oliver and Company. Yeah, this
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 6: was the retelling of Oliver Twist.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 5: With a cat cat form.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't realize that was the story.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I honestly din't neither till right now. It's like
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 3: the Cat Never Saw.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 5: But that's probably what.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 6: I had that soundtrack on cassette when I's Adorable.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that came out in eighty eight. Yeah, it's about
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: when I when I would have had.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 3: That, That's what I did. I start doing math and
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh night. Remember before Christmas I saw it
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 3: in theaters and I'm like oh, I was like seven,
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 3: So yeah, that checks out.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: Disney knows what they're doing.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it turns out, turns out all right
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 5: Bye, all right,