Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #352 | What Actually Makes a Good Builder? | Ben from Stroud Homes Brisbane North

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The Daily Dose #352 | What Actually Makes a Good Builder? | Ben from Stroud Homes Brisbane North · The Good Builder Podcast

• Az (00:53) good morning and welcome to the Good Builder Podcast. Today I am sitting with a gentleman that I am so glad I'm actually sitting with. And after that lunch mate, like I'm probably more glad. I met this gentleman here that you're seeing on on camera right now. And for those who are listening, we'll we'll introduce him very shortly. But I met him on the golf course actually. And there was a a few things that he said to me, and I was like You're a different beast. And and I truly believe it, mate. After hanging around you a lot more and understanding where you've come from, which we're going to talk about today, and your philosophy on helping people and the way you even just your whole personality, mindset, everything. the other thing I took away from you, and I know you're you've put on muscle and weight. I've lost weight because of talking to you. Because one other thing you said to me on the golf course was I said, How are you in such good shape? And I know this is a building podcast, but you listen. to this pot because it'll all blend into make the man who you are today. Yeah. But you said to me, a lion, you know, you're like a lion. You eat big in the morning and then you sort of in the afternoon, you taper off. And since doing that, mate, I've even dropped five kilos. But beside that, he's not only a weapon in the gym, but he's a weapon on the site. He's done a lot of stuff. He's one of the newest franchisees or the newest franchisee for Stroud Homes and he's kicking a lot of goals. So welcome to the podcast, Ben. How are you? I'm good, Az Thanks for having us on, mate. It's been been a pleasure. mate, it's it was a pleasure having lunch with you, man. Like I I must say it was really cool. I I came down here to Ben's office to do the pod, and he's like, mate, do you want to go catch a bite catch a bite? And I was like, Yep. Yeah. And I sat down with you and you were like, let's just, you know, get to know each other and talk a bit about that. And again, mate, I you know paid you a thousand compliments at lunch and and that's not what you're about. But I was like, man, I'm I am more impressed of the man and and who you are since talking about all that stuff, Ben. So it's humbling to hear. Thank you. mate, no. And yeah, you're such a cool bloke. But likewise, mate. Likewise. Mate, where did it all start for you, Ben? Like how did you get into construction and how'd you end up here at Stroud Homes? Yeah, so getting into construction was sort of It was always gonna be, I've always had a love for trades and and working outside in the sun and the camaraderie that does come with tradespeople. But essentially I was I was sitting out in front of the my parents' house with my well girlfriend at the time, wife now, Pip And my old man sort of just come home and said, That's it, you don't you don't go to school anymore. need to help out around the place. Wow. Help pay and rent. So that was it. Don't go to school. And walked into a little bit of roofing. Wow. Yeah, yeah. How old were you? year twelve, sort of probably fifteen or six, six seven. Seventeen. Yeah. Seventeen it was, yeah, because I was early baby. yeah, so seventeen years old, kicked out. Not out of the house, but just kicked out school, which was fine because I was essentially only there for the sports and over all the wrong reasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As most tradespeople are, I suppose. Yeah. yeah, so after that, so I went into a bit of roofing for a year or two and then realised that my passion was not to sit out in the glaring sun on top of a a shiny roof on steep pitches all my life and I wanted to wanted to build some houses. So jumped over into my carpentry apprenticeship, which I I managed to get halfway through, which I think I got to a second year apprentice, and then Moved out of home, done all all the things that a resilient child will do and wants to go against of everyone and telling them what how to do life and what to do, and you'd know I'd do the exact opposite of that. So moved out, moved in with a couple of friends and found out that I needed a little bit more money. So I ended up jumping on the away work on the mine sites out in Chinchilla, chasing chasing the dollars straight away, went and done a bit of formwork concreting. Realised that turns out I didn't form work or concreting as much as either, but I liked the paychecks. I come back to finish off my Apprenticeship. Yeah. Finished that and yeah, what did we do from there? I jumped on a plane again straight away. I I walked out of TAFE, jumped into you drove to the airport, flew up to Gladstone, chasing the money again, but with a goal this time. So my wife and I, or girlfriend at the time, had a bit of a plan, got away, get a fit more skills, train up, when I do So I walked up when I got up there, I got my concreting certificate, so qualified concretor, carpenter, roofer, and then After we finished Gladstone, went up to Darwin and done my rigging course. Wow. Playing round with cranes because I just like seeing big things get lifted up. I don't know, it's still still fantasise about it a lot now. It's just it's just cool. It is cool. It is cool. You sit down and look at a crane, pick something up, you go, wow. Yeah, I yeah, I don't know. That's just I suppose that's just how I look at things. Yeah, it impressed me. I like, Well, I can't pick that up and that can, that's cool. I love it. Yeah. And so after we finish that, come back home. Yeah, I we're away on a cruise actually and we the phone call saying that everyone on our shift had been cancelled, all my stuff and everything was still up and Darwin's had to pay for it all to get shipped back and yeah, and that was sort of a turning point with the away work. I sort of said to myself, that's it, I don't I don't wanna work away anymore. And I figured I'd I'd go to the old old chuck yourself in a deep end and and worry about how to learn to swim after that. And applied for a job with company in Toomba, looking for a s a site manager slash supervisor. Wow. To look after all their structural steel installs. Yeah. Yeah, we jumped from the Yeah, yeah. So sort of like bite off more than what you can chew and then learn how to chew, sort of scenario, I suppose. And you would have had a bit to chew. A lot, mate, yeah, because we walked straight in our building a the a new Toomba dump and it was 56 meters wide. Can't eleven. So we were sitting these external columns, leaning in by seven degrees. So when we put the rafters in, they'd push out and level up. Like and this is my first time ever supervising and I'd only been a qualif qualified rigger for about six months. wow. So just sort of gone, you what? If why not why not do that? How'd it go? Yeah, really well. Really well. I know. You know what? Since kinda getting to know you. I I bet it did. Yeah. I know. Yeah. We'll get into that. But I I was like I I I bet it went well, mate, because I know who you are. Yeah, it's just sort of how it's it's yeah. It just did. It like obviously there's a lot behind it, there's a lot of planning and preparation, but I had good team, had good people around me. I knew the carpenters doing the night the bolts and everything. So the camaraderie on site was through the roof. We're all happy. We're all young. Just just out there trying to earn a dollar essentially and get ahead. So we've stuck around those guys for a little bit longer and I they sort of tried to they they slowed down a little bit with the works coming in, quoting and not not winning jobs. So I then supplied for an ad on on Seek. It was just they wanted a leading hand slash someone to come down to operate a EWP on one of the Grantham slaughterhouses down there. wow. Yeah, yeah. So that was with another company, Brisbane based company. Went down there, just help them to essentially went down to drive their EWP so we could goop the holes. Yeah. Like with panel joints. Yeah. When after that end up, they found out I could do some form work and whatnot. And I sent out all their bolts for and then pardon me, sorry, the construction manager offered me a full time role as as a supervisor. Yeah. And I sort of talked to the wife about it. Why not? She's have you ever done it? Because they wanted me to go out to King Arroy to to build a big cool room slash blast freezer. She's got, have you ever done that before? It's nut. Well did it anyway. Yeah, that's what I said to her. I we figured it out every other time. I No, I'd read a set of plans. How hard can it be? I probably planned it down a lot there, but I it was a lot harder than just knowing how to read a set of plans. But at the same time, the the the methodical brain that I have, essentially when it comes to it, I could see the program and I and I wasn't Too afraid to put my hand up. Yeah. So if I if we had trades that would pull it in, I doing a programme, I'd get all the boys in and go, You know your job better than me, lads. How long is it going to take you to do it? And then if they said seven days, I said, why can't we do it in five? Yeah. And they just sort of look at me and go, Well, I don't know. I said, let's have a go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, let's try that. And that was just my approach. Like, all the way through site management. So we stuck around that company for five years. We moved everywhere from Kingroy, far north, Queensland, up in Cans and Marib down to Melbourne and Victoria. In Sydney, just done the hard yards. Just doing massive commercial jobs. Yeah, doing all the jobs that no other site manager wanted to do, 'cause I wanted to get a name for myself. And the only way to get a name for yourself was to do the jobs people don't want to do. Like I understand the backing order, I'm I'm a new guy on the block, I'm young, I was twenty-five, my first site management job. And I knew I wasn't just gonna be able to get in off my merit or or just biting off more than I can chew. I love it. So I had to had to prove myself, which we did. And yeah, we moved around and when we got back to Toowomber, I'd had enough for that company. They sort of wanted me to go to another job, but I was just, long story short, didn't want to. And there was a service station getting built at Southbrook near Toomba. And I just put my hand up that was a site manager. It was my big step up. There was no one else around to help me, it was just all me. Big truck stop and fucking hit and out the park. Right. It was for United, they'd handed over, it was defect free, it was It's a little bit on it was adjust over time, but that was due to a couple of project management fees not being able to get the the road closures in and relevant documentation from crossovers. And finished that one and we end up going on a six six-week long service. Took the wife out, went out to La Rue, whatnot. And AR United actually called us up, said, we need you to come back, cancel your leave. We'd got a project in Gunto Windy if it's fallen behind. We think you're the guy to bring it back on track. Wow. Yeah, so that was what I found out. He ended up going to Windy. I ended up going to Windy, yeah. And apparently I know how to build a service station. So that was a that was the start of a the service station train, essentially. Finished that one off and then I made really good not friends, but work acquaintances, I suppose, with the the Australian manager from United who jumped ship over to Liberty and he called us up to go up to Townsville and build four service stations. Through the peak of COVID, so I site managed, project managed, construction managed four servos simultaneous simultaneously. And that's where I started up my first construction company. I was given the freedom to to bring on carpentry labor and site labor. Wow. Yeah. And those commercial jobs are hard. Like there's a lot more to them, isn't it? There's a lot more red tape to them, there's a lot more oversight management, all that stuff. You've got to get them right. 100%, yeah. Especially as you're talking like we're talking fuel, fuel and power. But you don't get a second chance for that. Those two together sort of go bang. You don't get a second chance. Yeah, that turns out that didn't work, all right? So now we're dead. So yeah, all the checklists, but no, it was really good. It was it was exhilarating. It was fun. And then after that, how after going to Wendy and all that is that did you end up in the street? So after yeah, Townsville was where we finished up. That's where my my youngest was born. And move back home, be closer to family, but not like obviously my not obviously, but my wife's family is Twumba. so we moved down to Brisbane because there's more opportunities for for myself and our company down there. There's there's more work opportunities that's where we branched off into a little bit of the luxury high res high rise work. Yeah wow. Yeah working with likes with some pretty big names around around Brisbane doing the commercial fit outs, internal ceilings, linings petitions. Wow. Yeah. And I sort of fell out of love with the commercial industry. Just simply because it's just cold. It's it's emotionless. It's return on invest investment driven. And that's it. That's it. And you'd essentially I didn't like just being a contractor at the mercy of a builder, hoping that they're following their policies and their procedures right. Where it doesn't matter if I'm I'm following mine to a T. It all it's all on the person above you and and you can only have so many eggs in different baskets when you're talking commercial well because they're big value contracts. Yeah. So you're usually forced to put all your eggs into one basket. Yeah. And that cannot turn out well too some turn out too well sometimes. So Yeah. Yeah. So it was sort of a reason we went down that way and I sort of fell out of love that. And to be really honest, I was just scrolling through Facebook one day and Restroud Restroud banner popped up, looked into it a little bit, listened to a few podcasts with James and that was it. Yeah, I was a called the wife up and said, look, I know I've got a new idea every ten minutes and and I think we've got this what I'm gonna do and change direction and you always laugh and like it's it's a big laugh, but I think this is it. Yeah. And she listened to me and she heard me out and listened to the podcast and she's gone, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think this is it too. So on the phone to Scotty and from from Stroud and Yeah, here we are. Scotty's been the Yeah, he was a he was God's hand at the time, mate. He believed in me when I didn't believe in me to get get business going. Same with James, tack tip my hat to him, so. Yeah, well both of them believe in you, mate. I'll tell you what, this is why I I wanted to sit here anyway, then so no disrespect, mate. Like when I met you at golf and everything, I'm like, mate, like we're gonna go out and play golf. Like I wanna hang around you. I want good people around me, and I think that's what life should be. 100% sure. But they've got a lot of faith in you, mate, because that's why I'm sitting here too. Because they said, you know, who who should we go? I said, who should we go talk to in the Stroud Network and stuff like that? And they'll like Then I'd just go go check he's a weapon of a builder, he's doing really well, probably had one of the best starts in in the Stroud Network for a business starting out. Yep. And we've seen it too, mate. And then yeah, just your as I said, the mindset, the the discipline, which actually I want to talk a little bit about, but all that sort of thing. I you know, it's Yeah, mate, I think there's a lot of people that have got a lot of faith in you and and just hearing your background now, 'cause I didn't know the half of it. Yeah. Mate, they were tough gigs. That was super tough gigs. It's what it is, mate. Well, like you like what you do, you enjoy what you do, you can't sit down and tell me you haven't come from a similar background too, mate. So Yeah. It's it's just it's it's character building, isn't it? It is, and that's other thing that I The other thing I love about the way you think too, Ben, and I think the same, mate. And I'm not trying to compare myself to you, but like you say, you know, you said to me at lunch, you know, when you fall out of love with something, it's time to leave. Stop doing it. And I think that's some of the most valuable advice for anyone inside the industry or outside the industry. I think that's life advice. We imagine we followed that. Imagine as humans, we all followed that. I think we'd have a better world 'cause are we working in the places we want to work? We'd be do giving it a hundred percent like you said at line shot, there's so much good. Well it's effortless, isn't it? Like it it would be a damn shame if we all followed a passion, wouldn't it? Yeah. It'd be a damn shame. Yeah, yeah. Imagine life like that following what you want to do. Yeah, I know. crazy, wouldn't it? Not many obviously. Well it is the crazy ones that do it. Yeah. You know? talking about the the crazy ones that do things. Yeah. You're an immensely fit gentleman, mate. And and I know I keep saying because I used to be into the gym a lot and and and now I you know, I I I revere guys that you know, look mate, look at you. You're a you're a weapon. Thank you. And and as I said at the beginning of the podcast, for everyone out there, he gave me that advice and it works. Consume all your all your calories and meals, eat up big in the morning, use your energy and then, you know, taper off toward the night. You don't have to eat nothing. No. I'll probably have to talk to you more about that. But you should just you know. Make sure you're But mate, that discipline that you have, do you think that sort of helped you along the way in getting all those commercial jobs done and then, you know, going into this? Is that something that you feel in your life, the gym, the discipline has helped you? Yeah, look, definitely to a degree, mate. Like I mean, the discipline I I follow in the gym to compared to the the the methodic Methodical reasoning that I put behind a program is is completely different. Like the gym discipline, you sit there, you got your workouts, you're banging, you your two-minute rest, or I'd a two-minute rest. And it's too a T, it's structured, nothing can change. But then you try to bring that sort of mentality over into construction where we'll be sitting there like, I can I can write out your program from down to the hour, or like that's a obviously statement, everyone understands that. But to to the finish day, like to a very tight program, but If I get the discipline in the morning where I'm so structured, it allows me to pivot in on a day where we've got 10 builds going on and shit. There's been a hundred mil of rain dropped. So now we need to pivot and I enjoy that. And like I've got the camaraderie with all my trades. I've got lads, we need to talk about this. Let's see. And we'll everyone will chuck out the four or five ideas and go, let's try this. We could we could do this, we could go here, like love it. Yeah. So there's a discipline, but there's also the avail the ability to. Step back, assess the situation, because you got your clear head and go, all right, this has happened, what can we do? So you can take your program, sit, we got that. Actually, guys, we've got a house over here if it's ready for fix that, let's pivot, let's go there. Or or vice versa. You like you know what I'm just saying? Like buildings building, it doesn't it changes. Daily, hourly. Like shit happens. But you can't sit down like I programmed every job out and I guess sometimes you finish under, sometimes you finish over, but it's just your NODs, you notice some delays, like things happen. Yeah. Whatever happens. Yeah, yeah. People get sick. Yeah. Program can't reflect that. How do you factor that in? That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so you would say You discipline in the gym. Of course, discipline helps you get the job done and that's but it just helps you have a clear head. It does. Well you do the hard things in the morning, things you don't want to do, you push through, get what you don't want to do. Like no one wants to wake up early and go to a gym and sweat your tits out. And no one wants to eat chicken and salad at lunch too. You want to go for a burger or so if you can make those hard decisions, the the decisions that you bring over into your company and into your business aren't as hard. You've already started a day off of tough decision by getting up early, go to a gym training. So if someone comes to you, Benny, I don't want to go to work today, it's a little bit little bit cold or so like let's try to hide it in boys. Let's go, let's work it out. Like I love it. Yeah, it just builds up that mental clarity and the strength. So Yeah. Yeah. After 350 podcasts, we've never talked about that. There's no one that has talked about that. And I I think it's an important factor. Like we talk a lot about on the good builder, like building. Yeah. But there's other things in your life that you do that help with that building reserve. Building's just proportion, isn't it, mate? I love what I do but I love my family as well. Yeah, and that's why I love what you said at lunch. And and then the even the way you talk about like your camaraderie. Yeah. Like you are big on that there. Massive, mate. Like you can massive. You know? and and that's why I think you're gonna be and you are already such a success because you've got those people behind you that wanna be around you. I want to be around you. We're eating lunch for everyone out there and I'm like, hey Ben. I was a bit awkward, but I was like, I bet you you wanna go play a game of golf. It's good to hang around good people and and you have that energy. And I bet you you energize your whole team to get the job. No, but it works both ways, mate. Like, I we c I can't take all the all the gratitude for that. Okay. My team's amazing. We we all support each other in different ways and and we've been together for a long time. So yeah, like it's not it's not I'm not just like it's not just all down to me. Like no I facilitate the jobs, but without my boys. What am gonna do? it's not like I can walk out and do a bedroom, no, I need them just as much as they need me. Yeah. And we've we all manage to we don't manage, it's not even like it's an effort. We all get on quite well. All go for drinks and games of golf and that's cool. Yeah, like my best friend's actually my carpenter and Marva friends are like all trades people. Yeah. I don't have friends outside of a company. Yeah. Like because life and company life's different. But yeah, yeah, yeah. We just managed to separate it, which I think I think's pretty cool. Nah, it's freaking cool, man. Yeah, we love it. It's cool. Love it, mate. Cool. Well mate, you and Pip now. now have own your own Brisbane North, you're plugging along really well. Why did you think that why was Stroud kind of the the next step for you and why yourself and Pip thought it was the good the good decision making? James, essentially. Yeah, yeah, cool. It comes down to him. you'd sit down, I I've as I said previously, we listened to his podcast, found out who he was, experienced what he was like at GJ's massive success, yada, yada like great, great. Absolutely amazing. But then for someone to go, you know what? I can do this better. And pivot, which I love doing, which is the ability to be able to pivot and go, you know what, back myself, I can do it better. Let's have a go. Yeah. And he did. Yeah. He brought everything over from the previous company into his new one that he didn't like and changed it, flipped it straight on its head. And look at it. Yeah, exactly. And after meeting with him, he is just an honest person trying to deliver an honest build. The black and white quotes was no provisional sums, mate. Like seen too many people get stuffed over by the here's a PS sum against your slab or no man. That's not a contract. Yeah. Yeah, this is a contract. This is contract. I it just he's open for the discussion with the clients. He's there to deliver a home for a family. Yeah. And that's that's the end goal. Like that's what he wants to do. Sign on a dotted line, mate. Yeah, you've you've signed up with a straight, you've got the backing of us, you know what your house is going to cost unless you change your mind. I'm not gonna change my mind. We sign on a dotted line, mate. That's the price. Yeah. Yeah. And as I heard that and saw it, like he actually believed that. Yeah. And he believed that he wanted the people that he signed up to be a part of a growing company and what's best for us. Yeah. Not just him. Yeah. I don't see many people like that. No. You don't. No. You're one of them though, mate. And I think you think Stroud might and and there's a few other good guys in Stroud. Definitely. Another legend like Edges. I think as we talked about people, you bring good people in and that kind of just keeps going. Exactly. It gets better. It gets bigger. Well the final stage, James, like you could be the most business savvy person in the world. I don't know if this is true or not, this is a feel I got. If you don't hit the James factor, you're not in. Yeah. Yeah. And look at the team he's created. We're all like minded people. You we go away to a franchise feet meet cheap meetings and we're all friends. We all get on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tip Matt to him. No, that's very cool, mate. And you and you also mentioned the the network itself as well. Like how's how's that been for you? Yeah. Is that been pretty cool? Mate, to be honest, if I only got one thing out of this franchise and it was the network of other builders building in other regions, their advice and the ability to just call and go, I suppose silly questions that you can only ask another builder that's doing something, because they're not. Invested in your area. I I know it sucks, but at the end of the day, we're here to make money. Yeah. But they're not invested in my area. So why wouldn't I give me the advice? Yeah. Yeah. And that alone's worth its weight. Like if as I as I said, I I'll probably say it 50 more times. That is all I need from Australia. Like, I mean, yes, they're back of house. Everything that are delivered to us is great, obviously. But That alone is is value. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we all say it. Like I think every interview that's ever been done with it is just the network. Yeah, wow. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah, we love it. And I think it's cool now that you've joined the network, you bring another perspective. Yeah. You know, for for the others, which I think is great. And you probably have different opinions and thoughts on how to do things and and and that creates a really rich environment when you can share that and talk about it openly amongst a whole bunch of builders man. Yeah, I do agree. Yeah. Exactly right. You talk about your children, you talk about what's good. Yeah, yeah. That's pretty good cool mate. Yeah, we love it. It's great. You've done a bit of time, Ben, in in in in all sort of sizes of business. Yep. You've seen the good and bad of it. What are some of the really good things that you've learned and that want to bring into Stroud or you you do day to day? And what were some of the things that were kind of like, these are a bit off or or always that, you know, people have previously done it? Yeah, it's a it's a tricky one, mate, that one. Like I mean, it's a perspective, isn't it? It's what I can perceive as good compared to what you perceive as good might not actually hit the nail. Yeah. So like I mean, I like for friendship and the commodity that comes through it, but a lot of people don't see that as well. Like you if you forget who we're working with like we're construction's risky. You get our tools that are boys and you you don't work at heights, all that sort of stuff. And we're like, we're we're yeah, we're exposed. And the the camaraderie that comes from that's fits next level if you if you know how to manage it. So it's it's it's Yeah, it's a tricky one, mate. Like there's there's a lot of bad in construction. There's a lot of people out that are that they're only out to to better themselves. Yeah. I don't like that. I don't like that. Like, I mean, that sucks. There's a lot of people out there to not mention any names again, but like with provisional sums on your on your contracts, but that's some of the bad in in the industry. Yeah. Not not a fan of that at all. Like you've got mums and dads that could be a nurse and and completely distracted from the the commercial construction industry that Might be you might not build your the the relationship with it might be too embarrassed to ask what a PS means on their contract, so they just sign. Yeah. I'm not for that. Yeah. That's not cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I mean I think the good things is where you you look at a lot of Australian people is we're so approachable that there's no dumb questions. Yeah. And we're just open. Our salespeople are open. Our supervisors are you want to ask a question? Hit us up. We're right here, let's talk. Yeah. So that that that's for good, for bad. Yeah. The smoke and mirrors. Yeah. Which is that sucks to say, but it's out there. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, I love your opinion on that. I had a when I well I used to work at GJs, as people know, but we had a really good master franchisee in Victoria. He's got a legend. Your podcast from the other day, mate. Josh Tyrrell. Yeah. Weapon. Yeah, he's really good. And he he hated smoke and mirrors. He freaking hated it. And I love that. Like I love your philosophy on that. For me, like again, you know, just talking from my perspective, hanging around you and I and I know you're really humble and there's your team and everything, but what I get is you're all about trust. Hundred resumes. All the people that you talk to, it's about trust, it's about building trust, it's about building relationships and it's about building people up. Definitely. Rather than trying to rip off and and just care about you because it does What they don't realise is that it does really bad stuff for the whole industry. I'm about to go up to a development after this. and I know that, you know, th those customers within that development aren't going to be completely happy with what they receive and driveway or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Missing a driveway, missing missing fences, maybe missing a slab you know, yeah who knows? Yeah, you know, the way they price and things like that. Yeah. And and it it makes it, I think, really difficult for, like you said, clients to understand. And then on the flip side Just continues to give our industry a worse name. People just think we're like second what do you call used car salesman who's trying to freaking flog off snake oil Which makes our job really hard here at Straud as well, 'cause we we try to drum home, but that's not us. And to break someone's beliefs down when nine out of ten it's just also that's not a factual number, that's just what I've said right now. Yeah. Other builders don't do what we do. Yeah. Why would you believe us off face value that that's that our quotes are black and white and this is what we do? So They make it hard for us to sell what shouldn't be hard. Yeah. We're trying to sell transparency and we've got to make you believe in that before we can sell it. I know. And it's why don't it's like an extra step in the freaking sales process. Why are we doing that? I know. Why should I do that? Like But you're doing it. Yeah, we are. Because of other bad Exactly. Yeah. Like it's it's not hard to be a good person, is it? No. No. No, no, not at all. Not at all. Not at all. And and and I'll shut up about it because I know you're very humble, but you genuinely are. The other example which keeps springing to mind and why I wanted to be here today was when we went out and played golf with you. I remember you like taking us under your wing, teaching us how to play golf. Do you know what I mean? Just helping everybody along the way. And it made the day so much better. Like everyone in our little Ambrose team enjoyed it. Well laughed. Because we played as a team. A couple of us, including myself from you, were getting a bit of coaching and and and and you know, we just hit it off and and you knew that everyone had your back. Yeah, you do. And that little analogy of that golf day makes me feel how you run your business. It's how Stroud runs, mate. That's fine. Exactly. That's what I felt was Stroud. It's crazy. That's cool. Yeah. 'Cause it was a Stroud golf day. It's a family day, mate. Like I mean we all are like every like I don't even operate in that area and and franchise invited me up. I had it opened. Yeah, yeah. James was there, everyone was out. I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Haven't felt this before in a commercial. Well, look at everyone. Everyone's here, everyone's happy, everyone's enjoying life, we're having fun. Yeah. What's commercial much more transactional? It's cold. It's emotionless. Yeah, yeah. Which is fair. Yeah. It serves its purpose. The developers are out to develop. Of course they want to know what they're gonna get back. Yeah. But At the same time, it's emotionless, but it's easier to build commercial than it is residential. Yeah. Emotion plays a big part in residential and I and that's something that I've had to learn. Yeah, yeah. So 'cause emotionless commercial colo the the developer may Laws are changed, site needs to lift up seven unreal, it's gonna cost X amount. Set Stuart. Yeah. You call up Jane and and Bill down the road and go, laws have changed, we'll lift right sign up seven on real go. what do you what do you mean? We can't afford that. And which is fair. Yeah. So that's why we do our due diligence here. Yeah. And make sure that we know what it is where we did be that contract price, but I don't have to make that phone call. So emotion can still be good. Yeah. Everyone can still be happy and and enjoy the process all the way through. Yeah. and and mate, the other one other thing you said at lunch was building A client is a privilege. 100%. I thought that was cool, mate. Yeah. I've never had a builder say that to me. Definitely. Like it was almost sometimes flipped the other way. Yeah. The client should be privileged to work with a builder. Definitely. But you kind of went, Hey, no, it's a privilege for me to deliver this home for this client. Well, they've just trust this is probably one of the biggest financial decisions that you'll ever make in your life. And if you're willing to put your trust behind me, then thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it's my privilege. I should wear that as a badge. Like that's awesome. But you trust me with your biggest financial decision in your life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's nice. It is. I don't know. It's a great way. No, it's a great way. I think if we live our lives again, I I know this is a building podcast, but for more life advice from us, you need it. But you know, if we live our life more grateful to it. Yeah. I think it's a good thing, man. And you've taught me a bit of that. Brisley North. You're building renovation or you're building not renovation, you're building you're building homes also in Brisney North and and and you do sort of tricky builds and all that sort of thing, which we'll talk about and you'll you've got of course maybe a bit of news around the a potential display and things like that. Definitely. But what are what are people looking for a builder in Brisney North? Or what should they look for in a builder in Brisley North? May and then what kind of builds are you doing too? Yeah, all right, cool. So I think as much as this makes sense to my head, it probably doesn't make sense to what I'm If a builder's talking to you and they don't want to know how you use your house, how the family lives, why you've outgrown your previous house and what you need from your new one, it's not the right person, is it? No. Well w well I want to be able to deliver a design that goes, you know what? you you cook at home heats and but you like to do the homework, which are it's a sweat a breakfast party or mentioned needs to be wider so you've got room for your pantry, like all your food. Kids' homework, so you can still chip in and come, yeah, sick. Cooking the sketty over here, yeah, two five steps for a little bit, that's what that's how we go. You know what I mean? So like and then if you're not willing to to put that time and effort in defining out how they use a house and why they need to move out of our existing. Yeah. How are you supposed to build for Yeah, wow. You just can't. So you take a lot of time to understand Yeah. Their lifestyle. We try how they're using the home. Yeah. We try to. Yeah. It's like it comes down to how we face the property where you l living rooms on the left or right, north, south. Like we're talking afternoon sun, evening sun, do you sit outside, have a glass of wine, do you sit inside? What do you do? Yeah, wow. Yeah. That's cool. And and you've had a phenomenal start here in Brazil North. Yep. what Where you see the biggest opportunity in Brisbane North like around this area? Are you doing knockdown rebuilds? Yeah. What are the sort of builds that you like to take on then? So we're we're this is once this commercial world comes back into to help here is your sloped blocks, stepped blocks, knockdown rebuilds where a lot of people sit there and look at you, it's got we're gonna have three different steps in in the finished floor level. How am I gonna sort that out? You still have 47 story high rises, mate. I've got 47 different hot levels. Like it's not hard. You get a laser out. Levels, done. I know where I'm putting my finished floor to. Wow. So that's what we're trying to hit the market because mum and dad still they they own his house. Yeah. It's on a slope block. Yeah. We need to build a house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Figure it out. Yeah. It's not hard. That's why you put your trust in your team, your design team, your sales staff, and your trades. And if you've got that trust, that tricky build is not tricky, is it? It's an opportunity to help someone get the house they need. Yeah, wow. And that's just what we're here. Facilitate, do it. Yeah. So knock down rebuilds, slope blocks. That's where we're targeting. Yeah. There's a there's a massive need for it, so people still need need the houses, don't I? Very cool. Yeah. The build you got coming up, what kind of builds are they? Are they all of that sort of kind? Sort of. Yeah. So we've had got we've got two knockdown rebuilds. wow. Yeah, got those ones there, they're not tricky builds that we had a couple of relaxations, nothing massive talking about, just zero boundary of ga garages and whatnot. We've got a nice big salesperson Steve O actually signed up he's he's he's he signed the biggest one we've got so far, the bugger. Big one out at out at Wright's Mountain, what is that about twenty twenty meters of fall? wow. Yeah, it's a cool sight. Real cool. Really cool. No one would have wanted to take it on. they they're talking to other people, which so they should. It's big build since it's a high budget build. Big, big grand house. It's is it's it's amazing. Wow. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, you got that. And my first hour was actually a granny flat. Yeah, where? Yeah. So just a nice little small one, but it's all everything we get coming through is all custom designed because we spend the time to find out how they use the house. Yeah. So we use the Stroud plans, of course. If you wanted to see your cookie cutter house, which is They work for some people, some people don't. Yeah. But yeah, with a design team we've got and the sales people that we mate, we we go through every detail. We we know everything everything. We try to. If you're willing to share with us, we we'll know it all. Yeah. We wanna know it all. We wanna hear about it, want to spend the time with ya. That is cool. I think that's one of the biggest things that we're I think everyone's talking a lot about technology and they're talking a lot about this. How do we make our job easier? How do we make get the communication out faster? How do we do this? How do we do that? Yeah. I had a podcast the other day, which I won't mention the brand, but they were trying to say, which I disagreed with. They were they were kind of like, you know, doing this makes us don't have to go out to sight. And I'm just like, What do you mean? You're not gonna go out to sight. That's our first meeting. You're just gonna start building. Without going outside, what are you doing? Yeah, how do you and even from a client perspective, one thing that actually you said over at lunch, he said you go out to site all the time with builders. And this is unprompted. Like I'm just kind of going back through our conversation and and what this podcast was about. And I th you know, back in my GJ's days, that was one of the things all the clients would give us positive feedback about. Site visits. Site visits. But Builder came out on site. my God. why wouldn't we? Hmm. Is that your philosophy? mate, I'd yes. Yeah. To put it in short. Yeah. I well I'm a visual person. Computers are great. They've got to process. They they serve everything. Computer's not swinging the hammer, is it? Yeah. Google Earth isn't telling me the layover land. It's not telling me how many cars are driving up that street. It's not telling me the overhead powers there. Like, I need to sit down, look at it, feel it, look at the wind, look at everything. Like, how are we going to build it? What happens here at Ferry Clock? Let's sit here and look at it for a little bit. How many traffic to get? You've got a reverse trucks is wow. What else are you supposed to do? Like you can't build a house from your computer. It's like I'll probably probably get a lot of hate for it, but I don't believe you should be a builder if you can't have trade behind you. And Ben on site, how are you supposed to build a house, mate? Yeah, I'm with you. I am. Like I I'll pump up a lot of slack for that. But I think you'll stand by it. mate, well if you do, I'll back you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Because I I I I think that's you know, I talk a lot about, you know, you've got to be from the industry and understand it and have the experience behind you. Yeah. And and that was the other thing, you know, talking to you, Ben, like. You've done it all, mate. You've you've gone a resi, you've done a bunch of commercial, all that sort of stuff. Multiple trades like a fool. god, why would I drag myself through that? How good is your understanding of constructing a game? I you could probably do it with your eyes, please. No, I I I I couldn't I couldn't build it myself. I know when someone with a better skill set is doing something I can see it's doing wrong, but it'd be buggered if I could pick up the hammer or chisel and do it better. Yeah. Might be able to pick up a screen and show someone something in an oven. But yeah, I reckon But yeah, no, I I know enough about it that I can can program a job without and I can see through A bit of a trade like trade bullshit. we can't get it done in seven days and well y y you can, you know it. Stop trying to pull the ball over my eyes here. I know you're just trying to be lazy. Come on, be better, let's be better together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So get l let's knock it down and and just go from best. Yeah, I it it's helped massively. Like yeah, carp qualified concrete, carpenter, rigor, roofer. Yeah. So I the only thing I don't know is electrical, but it's only three colours, isn't it? Yeah. For all the open spark is that now you know you are. Easy in the end. No, they do. And they get paid very well. They do, yeah. So they should. Yeah. I don't like Ben's app. No, no, neither do I. But it's like the joke, every time I see a meme actually bet on Instagram about electrician, it's like a porshit in the front of bunnies, and they're like, electricians are here. Yeah, you know, yeah. That's how it works, mate. Hey, it's like the horse and cart, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I love it. The horses getting dragged around by the cart. Yeah, spargies, mate. Sit down and rat out them every day of a week, but we're all just jealous and they just earn more money than using paid every day of the week. I know that's not correct. I'm on a print half done trailer of all my toys in it. He turns up in the buddy wash. Yeah, organising everything. You hold all the risks for ten years, but don't worry, you you can't drive your Porsche, you go. That's it, mate. No, they're good guys. We do love the electricians, by the way. Johnny, our electrician, he's he's the most down to earth person you'll ever meet. Yeah. Yeah, he's he's good value. Yeah. Just like all all our trades. No, I'm sure, I'm sure they are. That's why we can pull piss out of each other because we're friends. That's right. And this is why we do this is why I love the industry. We can have a bit of fun. We can talk about we don't take the piss out of electricians and have a bit of fun. And I I think that's super cool, Ben. So mate, well. The the trade actually on trades, one of the coolest thing again that we also talked about was I I was we're sitting at lunch and I was like, you know, concrete is going past and everything like that. How you going for concrete and that you're like mate, we're good for trades. And I think that's an important point. Thank you. For anyone looking to build out here in Brisbane North, 'cause we've got a few customers that listen to us in Queensland. So I want to put this out there and I I mate. Okay, for any customer out there that does listen to us, like I would honestly build with you, mate. thanks. That's awesome. It's relief. But the trade situation. What's that like looking for you? Because Yeah, yeah. It is a tough period. Lots of commercial coming in. Yeah. Yeah, it's just a tricky situation, it is now, But yeah, we touched on a little bit. Like, I I I traveled a lot and I built my trade network up a long time ago. This isn't my first business. It's not my first radio. So I've been here done that before to a degree, even the commercial world. But I've always stood by my boys whether something just happened to hit the fan. It wasn't it was unforeseen's. Communication with me, my trades has always been open. They're not my trades, they're my friends. We are we're mates when it comes to camaraderie. Like I mean, yes, on a job side I'm the builder and this is how I want it done. But the second that clock ticks out and we pack the tools up We're just the boys again. Yeah. So like I mean, to answer your question, I won't personally have a problem with trades because my trades have been with me to seven, ten years. We're all local. We live in the area. My suppliers are the same. My suppliers have been through me with me for thick and thin. And when I mean thin, I mean we've had some real thin times in the commercial world. So yes, we're we're we're good. We're not gonna feel it. That's cool. We're good. We're good. Yeah. And what does that come it just comes back from the like we said, relationship, thick and thin understanding. You talk a lot about communication, which I love. And and the way you treat your clients. And and I said to you at lunch, I I have a real good feeling that you treat your trades the same way, mate. And that's why you've got them on board with you. Yeah, it's it's we've got a mutual agreement. Like we understand. That when push comes to shove and you gotta put the boots on to walk through the shit, I'll be there beside you. 100%. You call out Benny, we're a man down to Porvice Lab. I don't know if I can do it. It's a bar gun boots from the back boys. I'm on the way. I'm on. And and that and I know someone goes, wait, like Travis McCarpenter, when I first started Stroud, mate, he was helping me with my takeoffs. I I was swamped, it was like trying to start up a company, we're jumping up on roofs just to keep cash flow positive. We wanted to run lean, we want to keep lean so we can keep our prices down so we can deliver good homes at a reasonable price for our clients. I love that. So we're doing re-roofs. He jumped in and helped me out do re-roofs and and he was helping me doing my takeoffs. Like, that's my carpenter. He doesn't have to help me. Why would he help me? Yeah. But he does. But it shows. Yeah. So with my plumber Gary and my jo and my sparky Johnny, mate. We're we all chip in. Yeah. Like if someone's dragging behind or someone forgets something like Shit happens, it's construction. Yeah. Like you can only follow the bouncing ball so much, you're gonna forget something sometime. Yeah. These boys won't just pull wool over your eyes and just do it anyway. They know who's coming next. Yeah, yeah. So you go, yeah, Johnny, you might have you might have missed the PowerPoint in the bedroom. We j we won't put that plaster sheet on for you today, mate. You come around and fix it up for us. Yeah. Well your other trades, I wouldn't care. Like a wheel on a square meter, we've got to get gotta smack it we've got to pump it, that's how make money. Mm. That's not how you make money. It's not it only lasts for so long. Yeah. You look after the people, it look after you. Yeah. You clean up for the people that are after your predecessors and successors, mate. Yeah. I like it. We're all end goal is the same. I do well, they do well. Mm. They do well, I'm doing well. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool, mate. Same. I think that defines you the and I try and like I don't as I said at lunch too, I'm not trying to compare myself to you, but I I see a likeness, mate. Like even with even with the good builder, I started because I was like, I don't want anyone and we talked about lunch, I don't want anyone to feel alone. I want people to go, like you said then, mate, it it sends chills down the back of my neck and and I know that sounds weird, but it's not weird at mate. It means you're a good person, doesn't it? Yeah, it is, mate. It's not weird. It's like you know, like you said, when you're walking through the mud and times get tough, you know you're gonna have this bloke beside you. And you just and if if Australia Now I'm going on a fucking massive tangent. No, you're right. If Australia just was like that and we had that mateship back and we and we lived that life, fuck we'd be a good country. You know, I think we've lost all of that. Yeah, well Conor McGregor said it well, didn't he? He wouldn't eat at a table with people you wouldn't starve with. Yeah. I mean, like that means a lot. Like when you think about it, like you're like, shit. Yeah. Yeah. Why would I support you if you're not gonna sit here and go through tough times with me? Why would I do help you while I'm doing good? Yeah. Like I probably will anyway, 'cause this is who I am. You know, I know who you are. Yeah. Yeah. But the philosophy or what it happens and the people that are sitting there starving with you and trying to help you out of it, that's when you go yeah. Yeah, yeah, but there'll be plenty that'll take your food and and and not starve with you. But yeah, no, no. But that's what I I I feel about you, the Stroud network as well. It sounds like with the network as well. Like Tom Sachs, all those guys you talk about a bunch of the Dave and Lisa over and Bruce East, mate, they're all great. Yeah. You find me someone in this in in the Stroud brand that wears this shirt, it's not a good person, I'll call you a liar. That's fucking 100%. I stand by everyone in the shirt, where we're everyone's on the same path. We're out for the same goal. James and Scotty have done an amazing job putting this all together, mate. We've created white Queen Zone's number one builder, man. So mate and it is it is what it is. Yeah, 100%. So and and and you you're it, mate. now talking about the Brisbane North business, yourself and tip, where do you see the business in five years? Where do you want it to be, mate? Mate, where the business is in five years not is It is what it is. All I want to do is know that the suppliers that we've been using. If you were to walk into any one of our suppliers, trades above in the street and ask what you think about Ben, Ben and Pip, they're good people. They've supported local, they've stayed true to their word, they've stuck to the business model, they've delivered on homes that people actually need and wanted to live in. And they've just been in it for the good of the community and the company. Hmm. If you get that right, you're gonna be in a good space in five years. You know what I mean? It's funny though it's probably an interesting question because a lot I think I ask it a lot. Yeah. And everyone's got this five year goal, right? Yeah, of course we've got a five year goal. But shit can happen. Hundred percent. It's construction. But if you do the right thing. Yeah. always be a success. I think that was a cool way answer. Yeah, I reckon so too. Is that the way you look at it? It's hard. Try to look at it, mate. Like you just woke up with a positive mindset every single day. Mm. Everyone's a blessing. Yeah. There's there's two ways, there's two sides to a coin. Mm. You look at it as a hard day or you can look at it as a character building day and move on and grow to give it a chance to grow while you while you could and you had a time. Yeah. Take it. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Mate. There's there's We're gonna have like Ben and I have been talking and I'm gonna have Ben on more eagerly because beside the yeah, beside the the building side of it, I I think there's a lot of good stuff that we talk about when we were just chatted about life but I think that helps you in building anyway. Like you said, like just being a good person, doing the right thing, all that comes back. Yeah. I I'm a big believer in karma. So am I. And I think it all comes it'll all come back, mate. You do Yeah, it always does. Always does. Always does. Treat people like you want to be treated. Yeah. And if you do it and you expect someone to treat you better and you don't get it, then that's on you, mate. Yeah. I'm not a saying. It's not anyone else, though. Yeah, exactly. And that's what the other thing that I'm a I'm a big fan of too is You you don't have this victim mindset. I think in the industry, to a degree we kind of have, we keep going, it's so hard, it's this, it's that, it's industry sucks, it's fucking ruined. I hear that all the time. It's what you make of it. But that's what I turned up today at lunch, everyone. I turn up to lunch, we talk about the industry, and to Ben, that's we both talk like this. Yeah. But that is how you talk. You're like But you you know, and I I I talked about some hard things, you know, mate, you you make your own bet. It's it's your control, whatever you can control, just I'll freaking do what you check. What you do and you control how you react to the situation, you can react with a pity mindset like poor me, or you can react to a good thank you for that lesson. Yeah. That was actually cool. I got to learn that when I had time to learn it and move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did I learn better? What could have I done better? This, this and this. Sick. Let's implement that for next time so we don't feel like this in six months when it happens again, you go, it's all that. Yeah. It's all that coming. I love it. Yeah. You know, the other thing is I've one thing when I've been doing the good builder is we talk about, you know, what makes it right. And the more I do it, this is our next question. But the more the more I do it though, Ben, mate, the more I see there are certain personality traits that I that you have a a lot of in fucking buckets, mate. That I think make a good builder businessman anything. Yep. you know, and and we talked a little bit about I don't want to get too personal, but y you talked a little bit about your past and all that sort of thing. Do you think that helps you become a good builder? Your your like Mm, your personality, the way you hold yourself, all that sort of thing. Because this is this is the first time I've ever asked this question because I'll be honest with everyone. Like I I I don't know everyone, you know, as well as I know you, but like from what I see, you you you're you're a bit of a different beast. you you have and I like it. And I and I well I love the way that you're you're right into your fitness. That shows again discipline to me. You've got this mindset that You've got this mindset that's that's really strong and victimless. And I fucking love that. I love that because too many people nowadays play the victim card on fucking everything. And and if we're serious about it, like life's too hard, everything's too hard. I I I I've never seen so much anxiety in the world and I know it exists, don't get me wrong, but there's more and more of it and it's it's story bad, isn't it? It's all in your head. Yeah. So do you But to be fair, like I mean the people that do go through it later on in life might have not went through what myself and people like us, me and you went through in our younger life. Like we'll we're made to be resilient from a young age. Yeah. Like w we won't go into depth on it, but no I think that And I didn't want to yeah No, I think for both of us that that's how what changes us when we come to this level. But yeah, t to to answer your your question, what makes a what makes a good builder? Yeah. It's your trades and your people. So a builder is a connector of people. We set out, we find people in the industry that are good at what they do. We bring them together, we make them a team, make them friendship circle that want to help others, and you bring them back a house like myself, your CAs, your salesperson, your client, we bring it together. That's what a good builder is, someone that can organize people to come together to deliver a project as a whole. Not out there just to service one person. We're all the investors at team. Yeah. I'm a manager of people. That's all I do. Connect the right people in the right place and put it together and make it. And then the right result happens. That's it. That's what makes a good builder, mate. It's not a builder, it's not a person. It's his trades, it's his team. It's his clients. No one's ever said that. Yeah. And and the funny thing is, we talk a lot on the good builder. Like I I w I've talked a lot about being a coach, you know, being a coach and and they're your team. Yeah. And I'm I I don't think I've got it right or anything. It was from another bloke actually that I bought it from. But it it's thanks mate, but it's right, isn't it? Like it's people are fucking everything. Yeah, 100% everything that you do. Yeah. you get that piece right. And that's why again and I'm sorry to do it to you Ben because I know it's sometimes awkward, but mate that is why I've kind of gravitated towards you and I've liked your shit and I put all your stuff on my stories and the good Because of that, I'm like, you're a person that lifts people, you're a person I want to be around. I can see you're a good example, shining example of how a business should be run and how a building company should be run. And now that I've got to know you a bit more, and I've gone a little bit into life in this podcast. And I try not to because everyone thinks I'm a bit wee woo-woo. There's nothing wrong with being woo-woo, mate, just because you who you are and what you're on. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. Hey, yeah. But that's why, because I'm like I want to be around people that energize me. I want to be around people that I feel like even though I don't work for you, Ben, I feel like I'm part having lunch, being here. I feel like I'm part of the team. I'm part of changing things. Yeah, yeah. You're making a good step in right direction for you. Yeah. And everyone around us. Like this podcast is amazing, mate. People listen to it get a wealth of information. Like I don't do podcasts or listen to podcasts. I nearly listen on all of yours. Yeah. I thought I struggle to listen to because I just I get bored after five minutes and I o off on my own little tangent. But Yours, I I sat tried I drove back from one day on the other week and five and a half, six hour trip, all your podcasts whole way and did not get bored. thanks. Are amazing, mate. But what people you have on here, how you stand, how you deliver yourself is is second to none. You you're doing worlds of great for the industry, mate. Thanks, Ben. No time. That means so much, mate. Well, as I said, we're gonna stay in touch with Ben. And I actually gonna have Ben on as a bit of a regular when he can make it because he's gonna be a bit of a busy bloke coming on, but we're gonna go play some golf. And the other thing, well, yep. While I said you're a busy bloke, one other lesson I've learned from Ben State, I'm gonna leave you with this. I said to Ben, Do you want to go to golf in my awkward way? Because I like him. And he said yes. And I said, when you're not busy, mate, you know what he said to me? He said, put it in the diary and we'll make the time. That's it. And I think again, that defines you. Thank you. You have the time for people, you have the time for your clients. Yeah. You have the time for me. And you're like, whatever it is, if you need me, I'm there. Put it, yeah, put time in my diary. Yeah. I'll freaking be there. I think that defines you, mate. And look, I think you're gonna be You don't have to be the biggest builder in Brisbane North. You probably don't want to be wanna be, mate. That's right. But I reckon you're gonna be the best, mate. Thank you. Anyone out there, as I said, looking to build a Stroud home, Brisbane North, I'm gonna put the map up on all our socials and things. Appreciate that. Contact Ben, but for all the builders out there, mate, from myself, from the community, thank you so much for your time because there were it was a real refreshing podcast, mate. Thank you. And I'll tell you why. Because We didn't necessarily have to talk all about construction and all that. I know you know that. Yeah. But the lessons that you taught in this podcast were ones in over three hundred and fifty, we've never talked about really. And I think it's mindset, life, you know, all that life stuff. The the way you've come up through the industry, the way you hold yourself, the way that you think about things and the way that you don't play a victim, I think is essential lessons. Yep. If you get that foundation right, the other stuff. Where where's the house start from? The foundations. Come on, guys. And you've exactly and you've got that foundation. Start right, finish right. You know what I mean? So mate, thank you so much, Ben. Thanks for having me. That was very cool. And yeah, you'll be hearing a lot more of Ben and mate. yeah, good luck with everything that's going on here. Thank you, appreciate it. Thanks for coming down. It's amazing. Pleasure. Cheers, buddy.