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EL TREN DE LA VIDA 23-05-24 · EL TREN DE LA VIDA

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  Good morning, friends and friends, I am Julio Pérez and this is the
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  train of life, a radio adventure along the routes of the heart. I
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  want to invite you to travel with me and dream together in a better world,
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  a different world where men and women of good will can live in peace
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  and freedom. The train of life is a magaxin of good news and hope.
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  This is a radio time specially designed for people like you and as so
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  many seekers of truth, of the only truth that can make us authentic,
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  the free mind see you. I invite you to travel with us on the
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  safest train of all, which will definitely take you to safe harbour. This
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  is the train of life. Or very good morning, Spain, bon day,
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  friends and friends, impenitent travelers, tireless of the train of life.
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  Thirty- one year later we continue to travel through the children of the human
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  soul and the most intimate paths of the heart many times and also the present
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  day accompanies us. Let' s go there today too. But very good
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  morning, ladies and gentlemen and ladies and gentlemen, also to all the pilgrims
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  of the waves. It' s a very affectionate greeting from the one you
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  ' re talking about. Julio Perez, a good friend, a good friend,
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  I don' t know if to say of the soul. For so
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  long I don' t think it' s because being a friend of the
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  soul is being in the good and bad moments of life and it' s
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  always being very close. No, but here we are. Here, are
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  we with God' s favor? Never better said, with God' s
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  favor. We' re with you on this train. This is a living
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  parable of the things of life the train. The train suggests really impressive route
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  routes. Sometimes there are trains of these mythical, but also in our geography,
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  in Spain, the train is an important element. It is associated with
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  our good way of life. Now at the same time not only has the
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  Euromet and Albia been left behind and I no longer tell the oldest trains.
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  But the train is still a suggestive place. Let' s go reading now.
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  Everybody' s got their tablets, their laptops. There is also WiFi
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  on trains, because what else we want. If this is Hollywood in the
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  European version, and there we are. And that' s where we'
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  re traveling on one ho and the other. And today we will also pick
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  up good friends from this traveling train We will be in first place, today
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  we will pick up our friend Gina, Gina Campallance. Gina Campallance. She
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  was originally an artist, she was a singer there in her years. Well,
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  it' s not that I' m too old, because she always
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  jokes about her own person, but it' s not much less. She
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  is a woman with a lot of nerve, with a lot of determination and,
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  obviously, she is the president of the association to help mourn those who
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  are grieving. Saying goodbye already lost a son in the flower of youth,
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  a boy David, a beautiful boy that I knew very well, the letta
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  boy that things were going very well and in a way also unexpected, suffered
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  an ovite in the sea and well, since I, for imagine for a
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  mother and then, from there, she started, because her process was long
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  to disconnect from bitterness and I do not know of so many feelings found because
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  of the loss of a son in the flower of life. And of course
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  all this to her took her later by a person who always gleaned if a
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  person very quiet for everything, communicator, worked on zero wave also as an
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  announcer. She has been a singer, the woman of faith too, but
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  a very enterprising woman with her husband, Julio architect, a renowned architect there
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  in the city, on the island of Ibiza, And well, this led
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  her to think about helping others, the people who suffer this handicap of the
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  loss of a loved one and organized meetings, conferences, radio programs, she
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  was for a time, a year, she was in Barcelona for professional reasons
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  and the truth that she even worked with us here with a weekly program in
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  wave peace and the program was, say, goodbye and all. And it
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  ' s years and the concern for this and it' s still there and
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  it' s still there. In fact, they are going to have a
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  forum, a conference to a workshop shortly that also communicates us of organized by
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  the Spanish Evangelical Alliance also in this regard and we will be talking with how
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  to process, how to manage the loss of a loved one and how to
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  deal with it and until when how to what Well, there are several questions
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  that we are going to ask you to help us to answer them from your
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  experience and that of so many others that you have already seen and heard and
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  have gathered many things. Well, then, this will be the first stop
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  of the train of life with Gina Campalans and we will arrive at the second,
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  our friend, Dr Rocca. Again we' re going to take back
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  the doctor of this traveling train, the train of life with the dotor.
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  Rocca is everyone' s doctor in this house. But today, about spring,
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  that blood alters and allergies shoot, the sacks begin to seem devouring,
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  they begin there to attack all the most hypersensitive places, the allergic vulnerability of
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  human bodies. And there' s the other rock to go through. How
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  to try to see those allergies and also what are the most relevant treatments against
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  allergies. Well, then, we' ll be listening to you here today
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  on the train of life, to our friend, Dr Roca, talking about
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  allergy treatment. Let' s see what he tells us and then we'
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  ll finally get to an interesting station. There we are already going to get
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  a little more sane and we are going to talk to Don Alfonso Ropero,
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  Alfonso Ropero for us Alfons Ropero is a walking library and that is eh,
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  apart from that he is a bibliophile man in the most benign sense of the
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  word, because he has a huge library in his house in Ciudad Real,
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  and he has been for many years Clie' s publishing director. Now he
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  ' s retired, but he' s still working on some issues. He
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  is a national and domestic lecturer. He is a historian and also a writer
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  of very good works, and we are going to talk to him today about
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  something he has worked and published in CLI, among other things, and he
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  is the apostolic fathers. We' re not going to see them. I
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  ' m going to put in perspective. Those who understand more than they are
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  readers know what I am talking about, but some of us are not so
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  up- to- date about this is the successors of the apostles, already,
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  for example, John Policarpo Tertullian, a little later, Ambrose Gregory and
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  all the fathers of the first century, especially the second century III, especially
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  those first three centuries, who were the men of faith who led the church
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  of Jesus Christ in the midst of those avatars until Constantine arrived and somehow made
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  the Edict of Milan, with the conversion to Christianity of the Roman Empire,
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  which was beautiful. Also at first it was impressive because it was super positive,
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  but then everything became institutionalized and lost vigor, lost strength. Christianity with
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  that, too. But evidently it was also Constantine' s political strategy to
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  unify the empire of the time in the 4th century And well then there were
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  already characters like St Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century and a little later,
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  and the truth that they were insignious characters and others and so many others
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  and what they told us. These men also had to fight heresies, some
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  very important against the Christian faith. But well, Augustine Dipona was an enlightened,
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  he was a teacher of philosophical rhetoric who experienced a dramatic conversion to Christ
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  to Christianity. His mother Monica stole God for her life, because it was
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  once he lived a very dissolute and such life, but very interesting. But
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  then he became a man, a champion of the faith, and he contributed
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  much to Christianity and so many others, and it is interesting to see and
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  all these men have created historical sequences and have led the Church by the best
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  possible ways in the midst of many historical avatars, incidences of kingdoms, attacks
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  and counterattacks, persecutions, martyrs, favors and misfortunes. Well of all good,
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  then we' ll talk to Don Alfonso wardrobe about this issue here,
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  on the train this morning don' t miss it. Today here and on
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  the train we will travel together. Here we go. You can send your
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  message through our Facebook, through our Facebook entering between its double- point see
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  the train of life, point is the train of life, point is.
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  They remember that this way you collaborate with us. Tell us your impressions,
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  ask us and participate actively. We want to meet you. We want to
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  meet you. Enter our website three month double points the train of life,
• 13:24
  dot is and follow us through Facebook, through fok even if the sun stops
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  shining and the moons will turn out the night, even if they are denied
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  coma and once as I go through if in fine I will not meet,
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  I will rejoice and in front of the war I will smile, although the
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  bird of which they sing to me and a dense fogmerde even though the fire
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  no longer hot the same already it costs me breath, I will not give
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  up, I will not give up, I will rejoice who amate you already
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  will smile, I will not give up, I will resist and in the
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  midst of the test I will overcome, I will not laugh, I will
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  resist. We will cross the valleys and the great finite cities, plains,
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  endless mountains, low that not of stars, come out soldiers of flame,
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  we will open the way to where we are sold, We are pilgrims,
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  see these stations the arrows, my bimsic words, Masto does not rekindle me,
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  I rejoice and before the war or will not surrender me? Georsstigan and,
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  in the middle of the test for your safety, wear the belt.
• 16:44
  We' ve replaced this announcement of nine hundred and seventy- three because not
• 16:48
  putting on the seatbelt looks like things from the pin. Let' s look
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  at the effect of a collision at fifty kilometers per hour lin pin tulo,
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  but it isn' t and one in four road deaths wasn' t wearing
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  a seat belt. Put on a belt Directorate General of Traffic, Ministry of
• 17:07
  the Interior, Government of Spain. I want next to me to control everything
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  you do, you see and you feel. If there' s everything you
• 17:19
  get, I want fat time. Abuse doesn' t come suddenly. Ministerio
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  de Sanidad, de Servicios Sociales a egalidad Gobierno de España. My project,
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  that my grandson, my man, is super- grandmother, is a pillar
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  and shell and one of them has depression, but their dreams, like any
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  other, have no limits. Let' s not put them on us.
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  Integration is always the best response for the social inclusion of people with mental health
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  problems, Ministry of Health, social services and equality Government of Spain. If
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  you want to visit our website, the wwwww. Point the train of life,
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  the train of life or better, ladies and gentlemen, we already have
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  our friend China Campallance in the bud, talking to us today about keys,
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  because we need some keys to overcome the mourning for the loss of a loved
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  one. The death of a loved one without a doubt is a traumatic episode
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  for those who live it, for those who go through that experience, it
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  is as if a piece of the world had been completely broken, like a
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  part of the map that had disappeared. For us he has or has to
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  suffer it, he has to learn to live a life in which that loved
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  person will no longer be and it is not easy. It must be through
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  grief and with an emotional response to loss, which is long and the answer
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  is sometimes ambiguous. Not many mixed and painful feelings, but it is necessary
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  to regain stability again. And let' s talk to someone who is precisely
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  president of the mourning aid association, like Gina Camparals, say goodbye also as
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  he told them in his own experience has lived and he has lived with many
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  others who he has accompanied during their lifetime. And there we have it.
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  Gina Campalance, good morning, Gina good morning, July, long time no
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  see. There yes, yes, live and live, virtually wanting to see
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  you and see you, our dear friend Julio, my compadre hears talking about
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  the subject, the theme of mourning is a thing that is always good since
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  you lived the dramatic experience of losing a child. Right, that' s
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  where it all starts. Not sure. Evidently, I never thought it would
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  be for this that I would dedicate myself habitually and professionally. I don'
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  t know what to call ministerial. Or, well, what I spend more
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  time apart from my family, is really this. But, as you have
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  made clear, twenty years ago, our eldest son, we had six children
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  and on September 12 of the year two thousand three, David, who was
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  our eldest son, died of a scuba accident. Then, evidently, our
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  life was paralyzed, so to speak, our happy world up of the great
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  family, for of course, there is a before and there is a after,
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  because you can' t expect anything like that to happen in your life
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  and for any family that suffers a loss of a child, for it is
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  a tsunami, yes, and but thank God, it had to be enough
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  years for me, to put it this way, to go through it in
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  a healthy way. I mean, I' m not traumatized. Our family
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  ' s fine. We can talk about David normally without everyone crying. But
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  obviously David' s gone. Then we have had to relearn to live without
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  him, to cling to other hopes, I as a believer to the confidence
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  that one day I will see him again. But you have to relearn to
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  live without the presence of absence, that is, with the absence of the
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  presence of your loved one is not an easy way. As you said,
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  there are no magic formulas, but it is true that there is an ingredient
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  that is what makes the difference and is the attitude. I always say we
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  ' ve had hundreds of people we' ve been with all these years and
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  right away, not right away, but soon you realize the person you want,
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  you want to get back on your feet and the one you don'
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  t. Then there are two groups of people. There are people who fall
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  into the poor victimism of me because it has happened to me, because if
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  I am a good one, if I did things. Well, there are
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  people who just don' t understand why it happened to them and then get
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  stuck in this question. And then there are people, because it costs them,
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  but they accept it and then they try to reconnect to life clear tools
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  that they have around them and with what they have, of course, because
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  that' s what we have to learn how we can help ourselves. But
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  someone has, someone has. It is good that someone is next to these
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  people who live in the loss of a loved one, of course. Obviously,
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  recovery will be better if there is a good family support, of friends,
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  of grief support groups, although it is also important to highlight Julio that
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  not all people, i e, need external help. That is to say,
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  I believe that within the human being there are capacities to survive the most
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  tragic events that may occur to us. But, obviously, to have a
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  support around and people who know how to understand that they can listen to you
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  in a quiet, active way, without giving you advice, without making the
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  famous phrases made. It has been God' s will or you will have
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  another son or lived the time. In short, there are phrases that would
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  be better not to pronounce them. But of course it' s good to
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  be with you in this process. What happens many times July is that this
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  is a very long process and most people, both friends and people in your
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  community, of faith or family, are there for a while, but then
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  they get tired, among other things because they don' t know what to
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  do or what to say. Then the person is left alone with it,
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  feeling the same intensity of pain, and it is usually when they ask help
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  groups where they see that already in their environment they do not even dare to
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  verbalize their pain, to express it with weeping, because they think that they
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  are tiring those around them and then they seek a space in which they can
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  be understood, where the common language of all people who meet is grief.
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  It is the language of mourning, of course, because there are the stages
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  of mourning. The confusion, the anger, the anger, the pain,
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  the guilt, the sadness, finally, the affectation and the restoration. These
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  are the seven stages identified. As you identify them like that, I kind
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  of do. In fact, what happens is that many times these stages can
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  be overcome. I mean, I always say and besides, I just lived
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  it a short time ago because the mother of a friend of mine died,
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  the husband of a friend of mine died. So I' d say the
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  first part is like the show, I mean, the person doesn' t
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  just believe that this is happening, even when it' s funny Julio,
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  even when we could say that there was an announced death, not because of
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  a cancer disease, a long illness, like the person should be preparing for
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  the end. And yet, my surprise is that, well, it'
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  s no longer a surprise, but I was shocked, but I keep seeing
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  that people don' t think this is going to happen they always think that
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  there will be a pill or something, a new medication, and that will
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  make the person finally not die. But, as I was saying in that
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  first stage of the shok, the person does not assimilate it. But it
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  has some advantages. This first stage is that it allows you to do all
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  those things that need to be done when a loved one dies, I call
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  you I know how to get in touch with the funeral pomps, do the
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  funeral, the preparations that I tell you. In these days I have been
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  remembering how it may be that Julio and I, after David died, the
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  next day, could be talking to a gentleman quietly, quietly in quotation marks,
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  the coffin you are looking for, the people you are calling the newspaper
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  ' s announcement the flowers. But this is because emotions have not yet blossomed,
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  that is, they have not exploded. You' re still in a
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  bubble where you just didn' t believe this. Then, as you well
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  say, there is a whole process at this stage in which it already begins
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  to emerge, since all the anger, sadness, misunderstanding, non- stalgia,
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  well, a whole series of emotions. Then, little by little,
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  one comes to what is called acceptance. And in this process it is when
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  we can begin to elaborate, healthily, because the process of mourning. And,
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  lastly, it would not be emotionally relocating the deceased and continuing to live,
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  that is, adapting yourself to the fact that he is not present.
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  But you' re integrating all those memories that you have with that person and,
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  of course, it' s not about you forgetting it and going through
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  it, but you learn to live without that person, because you should learn.
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  Not everyone gets it, of course. But there' s another one
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  among that you' re mentioned, which is very interesting. There is a
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  danger and it is not to process the duel well, that is, to
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  make a shortcut, a momentary run forward. But if there is not a
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  well- run process, this can turn out to be a boomerang that can
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  turn you back and give you a very strong one in your life. You
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  can' t come down. We are clear, obviously, as I have
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  always said. I mean, grief is not a disease, it' s
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  a natural process, absolutely natural, as it is a reaction, as if
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  you drop boiling oil on it, because you have some burns, then you
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  have to pass some balms, you have to make some cures sooner or later.
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  This is gonna be all right. If you obviously don' t put
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  on the right ointment or don' t put on, don' t do
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  it, this can infect you then with grief at the emotional, psychic and
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  spiritual levels is exactly the same. I mean, mourning isn' t a
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  disease, but if you don' t perform those tasks we call what we
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  should do during mourning, mourning can be conquered. It can become a pathological
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  flight. We can get to have what a deep depression. And that'
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  s when you really need psychological, psychiatric help and there are people who have
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  a hard time getting out because look. I' d like to read you
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  what you' re looking at. This is the brochure that we have from
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  our association can not see no. Yeah. Everybody does, yeah. Look
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  I' d like to just read this to you which is very important,
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  because I think it' s what helps people. It says the benefits of
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  attending groups, of helping grief or not, but what it says is the
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  fact that putting words to pain helps a lot to start healing it. We
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  know that the only way to heal grief is through it and the best way
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  to do so is to experience and express the emerging feelings. The pain,
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  the sadness, the going to, the guilt, the shame, the longing,
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  the disbelief, that is, the tasks of mourning partly have to do
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  with that verbalization that express how I feel. So, in groups, what
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  we do is we actively hold and listen to these people who need to repeat
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  over and over again, because I was at home and the phone rang and
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  they told me that my son had had an accident and we had to go
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  there. Then you' re putting order in the middle of the confusion and
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  you' re slowly assimilated. This is real. Then go expressing how I
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  feel. I feel like that day you might have been mad at your son,
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  at your husband, and a few hours later they tell you he'
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  s dead. Then it' s there. Often the feeling of guilt is
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  left in many of the following. That too, the feeling is curious,
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  but it is very true. Hey people who have got something left behind with
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  that, but or something that hasn' t done well and they think they
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  ' re part of the problem causing death and everything, and this is very
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  fustigating. Not sure, that' s very fustigating and then it' s
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  one of the things to try to help the person first forgive himself in case
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  he might have some guilt. That is to say, imagine some parents that
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  it is the birthday of their son, who turns eighteen, buy him a
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  motorcycle, The boy goes out with the bike and has an accident and dies,
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  that, of course, that is left to that family. If we
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  hadn' t bought him the bike, then well, we have to work
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  hard to free people from what good we' re going to see was an
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  accident. Another brother had a motorcycle and it didn' t happen to him.
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  Then it also depends on how the child drove, not that of skipping
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  a traffic signal or running too much or simply that it was an accident.
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  I mean, getting people out of guilt isn' t an easy task,
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  but we' re trying to work a lot on this. No, yeah,
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  yeah, yeah, well, sure, it' s very important.
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  It is very important, after that what remains is also I think that during
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  the meeting groups, where it is verbalized. That is very important, because
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  when people sometimes talk on a recurring basis, they also free themselves from these
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  things. And it is that a group therapy that you also perform, in
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  the groups that you good organize to see. It' s funny, because
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  we say that a meeting group is not a self- help group or a
• 34:13
  therapy group. A meeting group is a group from which experiences are shared and
• 34:17
  experience is not considered therapy, but development, that is, groups are not
• 34:23
  necessarily therapeutic. That' s what I' m talking about. Yeah,
• 34:30
  sure,' cause there' s that feedback. I tell you, I
• 34:35
  tell you how I am, what happened to me, and there' s
• 34:38
  another person who' s listening and maybe he' s at another point and
• 34:42
  listening to the other person as the tools he' s used to go through,
• 34:50
  through, help, so there' s a therapy generated among people who
• 35:00
  are through using the same situation. Yeah, at that level, at that
• 35:02
  level I understand therapeutic. Yes, but it is true that, as you
• 35:07
  say, and then there is a question throughout that process longer or more not
• 35:12
  so long for some and longer for others so many and some lake to others
• 35:17
  pathological, because never get rid of him that mother or father that carries in
• 35:24
  the soul this and there is no way. The tragedy that happened with your
• 35:30
  son or wife or husband is always present. But good memories also when processing
• 35:40
  those groups, it' s important. Either in family or between husbands,
• 35:46
  the good memories of the person who is already deceased, disappeared are very important,
• 35:52
  right. I think so, because they are fundamental, because when a
• 36:00
  family member is missing, what can' t is not going to disappear from
• 36:06
  the map of that family. So, for example, since David died,
• 36:10
  from the zero minute since the first year, we commemorate that day, then
• 36:17
  we remember David with pictures, with videos, we remember anecdotes, so what
• 36:24
  we do is that what we should do is not take that member out of
• 36:30
  the family as if it had never existed. This happens on many occasions.
• 36:37
  I mean, it' s such a taboo that there' s around the
• 36:42
  person who' s passed away, that you don' t talk about it
• 36:45
  anymore. It doesn' t matter, it takes out all the things that
• 36:49
  were there from that person and because it hurts them, because it' s
• 36:53
  very painful. At first, I realize that the encounters we have now,
• 36:58
  after twenty years, or even those we had ten years or fifteen years ago,
• 37:02
  are not the same as those we had at the beginning. In my
• 37:08
  case, I used to take a little pulse from the family. How were
• 37:14
  the rest of the family, because this is very important. Julio. Many
• 37:19
  times when a mother loses a child she forgets that her other children have lost
• 37:23
  her brother, that the father has lost his son, that is, I
• 37:28
  have lost my son, that I carried him in my bowels, but my
• 37:31
  husband was her fishing companion. They had their brothers. He was a very
• 37:39
  important figure to them, their older brother, that is, the whole family
• 37:43
  hurts. Then you have to work with the whole family to help get through
• 37:47
  it in a healthy way. And it' s true, as you said
• 37:52
  there are many women who, and above all I wouldn' t say that
• 37:57
  it doesn' t happen now, but everyone, everyone is. We have
• 38:00
  in mind the image of these women dressed in black in time in villages or
• 38:06
  in many places where as a child had died when, therefore, they have
• 38:09
  stayed there not and is the victim of the family and the family cannot evolve
• 38:15
  because there is a member is always suffering. Not how interesting the whole subject,
• 38:23
  talking about how to overcome through grief, a process of mourning, the
• 38:30
  loss of a loved one. Hey I give a little strike to the interview
• 38:36
  with one thing that was going through my mind at first and it' s
• 38:40
  a little bit may seem a little strange, but not to me, it
• 38:45
  ' s not and I would like you to do a reflection on this.
• 38:47
  I was thinking about the war in Ukraine, the loss of so many children
• 38:55
  who lose good. Here we have several orphanages, even in Spain, in
• 39:00
  various places of Ukrainian children, in Europe many and then the women who have
• 39:07
  lost their husbands countless of them and well, and entire families who have also
• 39:15
  died from the bombings of this sinister character who indiscriminately attacks Ukraine to invade it.
• 39:28
  But beyond political issues, that is, the loss of a country like
• 39:30
  this, the trauma has to be enormous. Huge, right, it'
• 39:38
  s a country in mourning. It' s a country in mourning and it
• 39:44
  ' s obviously going to leave some impressive sequels. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 39:49
  we don' t know how long it' s gonna last, but
• 39:52
  of course, as you say, separate families first. We' ve usually
• 39:58
  seen most women, grandmothers, mothers with children, fathers stay in front of
• 40:01
  us on buses. That separation already leads to trauma in families. Then,
• 40:12
  then, if they find out that the father has passed away, for imagine,
• 40:15
  this will require many years of help. Let us trust that there are
• 40:28
  organizations that put in place psychological aid plans, because it is a traumatized country.
• 40:37
  Yeah, and I' m gonna tell you an example that has nothing
• 40:39
  to do with it, but just so you see it' s like the
• 40:45
  tip of the Iceberg last year, not the other one. He died in
• 40:50
  Ibiza in a French boy from French school. He died tragically, very young,
• 40:57
  at the age of twelve, making Snorkell also died gado. As David
• 41:04
  I had an only child and I was called from French school. I was
• 41:10
  called by the director of the French school to see how we could make an
• 41:17
  intervention in crisis because the whole school was in mourning. The parents were in
• 41:22
  mourning, I was in the teachers, the parents of the children going to
• 41:27
  class with their children were in pain, with this child and all these children
• 41:31
  who had lost their classmate were in mourning. So, imagine, this child
• 41:38
  dies because a week before the start of French school, which you already know
• 41:45
  begins French school usually starts a week before national schools. Then I remember,
• 41:53
  because having to give talks and help the whole collective. It was a collective
• 42:01
  duel and I did see the most that impressed me clearly. The parents did
• 42:07
  not know if they still had to see the parents of this child who had
• 42:13
  died. The children did not know how to manage the loss of their classmate
• 42:19
  they had been with since they were five or four years old. No,
• 42:22
  then we use it. I went with a partner, with a girl from
• 42:28
  my team who has also written several books about the help of the grief that
• 42:32
  is called" Thanks life for how to teach children" And then what we
• 42:37
  did was in class. We took off all the tables and we all sat
• 42:42
  on the floor, we all sat in a circle and then with a cushion
• 42:47
  we were passing this cushion as a child. Every time a child had the
• 42:51
  cushion in his arms, that is, he had it, he had to
• 42:58
  comment on how clear he felt. The children began to verbalize for the first
• 43:05
  time what had meant to them the death of nells of this child and then,
• 43:08
  well, it was tremendous July, when one began to cry and the
• 43:15
  other began to express that he dreamed of him and the other that he would
• 43:19
  not see him again and that where he was was tremendous, that is,
• 43:23
  it was therapeutic and helped them to a barbarity. So I think all these
• 43:28
  people, especially these kids that you were asking me, what they' re
• 43:30
  going to need is to verbalize how they feel, that is if they leave
• 43:37
  it inside. These children may end up very traumatized, but they find a
• 43:45
  channel through institutions, groups that worry about helping them express themselves. I assure
• 43:52
  you, they can be fine. You do not understand why they are clear,
• 43:58
  because in addition to the horror of war, besides the loss, which
• 44:01
  is the worst of everything and the disappearance of families and sometimes entire cities,
• 44:07
  the horror of everything, of the noise, of the noise of war,
• 44:12
  of the situation of chaos. And that must also be borne in mind that
• 44:16
  I have spoken to many of the Ukrainians, of those who have arrived and
• 44:21
  of those who have already been here, and the Ukrainian people are a strong
• 44:27
  people, they are a brave, wary people, it is probably in Europe
• 44:32
  of those who are most eh and that is good. But yet it is
• 44:36
  insufficient, because the tragedy is there. But, well, anyway, we
• 44:42
  do good in help, but good was a note or it' s not
• 44:45
  okay. I believe that specifically yes. Yes, I do not know whether
• 44:50
  Ukraine has already entered the European Union, or is about to, not yet,
• 44:53
  but it is, it will, it will, despite the whole of
• 44:59
  it. I believe that this would be an outstanding subject for the countries that
• 45:06
  are neighbouring and that we have not gone through that war to take over.
• 45:12
  I want to say if, thank God, this war is over and they
• 45:16
  are starting to return all to their countries and all first of all the state
• 45:22
  in which they are going to find their homes, their country, their city,
• 45:27
  that is, this is a collective drama, but I believe that one
• 45:31
  of the tasks that the rest of the countries have will be to help,
• 45:39
  to send psychological help, that is, to help alleviate all this situation that
• 45:45
  all these families have left. No doubt. Surely that is certainly envisaged in
• 45:49
  the reconstruction of Ukraine. When the war ends one way or another, it
• 45:54
  will have to end because and then the reconstruction will most require a very,
• 46:00
  very large, very massive psychological attention. Yes, it' s true,
• 46:08
  and as far as this aspect is concerned, we were talking about therapies,
• 46:15
  accompanying water therapists. In fact, you do that, you do it so
• 46:20
  much with so much affection and with that burden that came up in your heart
• 46:25
  to help people in this emotional crisis situation. But also, in addition to
• 46:30
  all the tools that are the most interesting for the day to day, there
• 46:36
  is also faith and spirituality, truth, also that is an important ingredient many
• 46:39
  times in this whole process of pain, truth, well, many times I
• 46:45
  think it is fundamental, because, obviously, I always say that faith makes
• 46:52
  a big difference. Having faith in God. Having faith in God in the
• 46:58
  midst of a tragedy like this for me marks two great differences. First,
• 47:05
  we believe that God is good, this is not a punishment, that there
• 47:09
  is a purpose behind what may have happened and then we hope that we will
• 47:17
  meet our loved ones again. So I' ve seen for all these years,
• 47:24
  as you know, our groups are neither evangelical nor anything, i e,
• 47:30
  they' re grief aid groups where people come with faith, without agnostic
• 47:35
  faith. I' ve had even a Muslim woman, we' ve had
• 47:40
  people with all the philosophies in place, and then it' s clear that
• 47:49
  lack of faith makes such a thing meaningless. I' ve also seen,
• 47:54
  unfortunately, Julio. But it is also part of the process of people who
• 48:01
  have staggered in their faith because it has been raised, as I told you
• 48:07
  at the beginning, because God has been able to do something to me,
• 48:10
  as if it were a thing that God, a direct intervention of God to
• 48:15
  harm you. Then I have seen believing people that their ugly staggered in the
• 48:21
  midst of this, and yet I have seen other people, for they have
• 48:23
  grasped more, whether or not they believed. Now we have the case of
• 48:28
  a man who was not a believer and yet his wife has recently died.
• 48:34
  On Christmas Eve, his wife dies, on Christmas Day, his mother dies.
• 48:37
  A few days later he dies of his brother. Then a man truly
• 48:43
  troubled, a name which he has found in the priest, in the priest
• 48:51
  who is in the people, for a balm of peace. That' s
• 48:54
  good, I' m amazed. I' m looking forward to meeting this
• 48:59
  priest. I' m going to go see him one day because I realize
• 49:04
  that the person who came in this man, who came in at first a
• 49:07
  few months ago, who was very angry at everything and I see how he
• 49:12
  ' s calming down. Then he tells us in the groups that I have
• 49:15
  spoken to this priest and that this priest has given him a series of advices
• 49:22
  of words that relieve his soul. Then this man is clinging to the faith
• 49:25
  he did not have before the death of his wife, mother and brother.
• 49:31
  However, I have other people who were very believers who participated and I am
• 49:38
  referring to a general Christian belief. Most who connect are Catholic people, because
• 49:45
  they had their own fellowship that they went to their Masses and stopped going and
• 49:52
  attending because they were angry with God. Not then, well, what I
• 49:58
  do in these groups is talk to them about what helped me and I grabbed
• 50:02
  God like an anchor. You understand I said this. If I' m
• 50:07
  not holding onto him, I don' t know how I' m gonna
• 50:12
  get through this. But I can also tell you July that faith does not
• 50:21
  free us from suffering. Of course not. That is, there are some
• 50:25
  words of Jesus that say in the world you will have affliction, but trust
• 50:31
  I have overcome the world. Then I interpret this as suffering. No one
• 50:37
  ' s going to take it from me, that is, I didn'
• 50:42
  t suffer less because I was a believer. Come on. I spent a
• 50:45
  long time, but a long time it was a pain in my chest.
• 50:50
  I remember it was like a daily moaning. Sir, please help me because
• 50:55
  I can' t stand this pain. What is true is that I never
• 51:00
  fell into despair. I never let myself be dragged away by the pain,
• 51:07
  I mean, I didn' t let the pain take over. I was
• 51:10
  aware that it was a stretch of storm in my life, that I had
• 51:15
  to pass it. I didn' t know why or why, but it
• 51:20
  had to be passed. And that' s what I did then. Me.
• 51:23
  For me faith is my anchor, my anchor, my support, which
• 51:30
  has allowed me to get here and over the years discover that who could help
• 51:37
  other people who were going through the mourning, but someone who has gone through
• 51:43
  it, who is fine, who has regained hope, who has projects that
• 51:46
  I am happy with. I mean, I' ve forgotten David. David
• 51:52
  is never the engine of this, for I would not have created this if
• 51:57
  David had not died. But I' m fine, but I have illusions
• 52:01
  and I' m able to have a good time and enjoy life. And
• 52:07
  this I admit breaks the taboo or the idea that it circulates around that if
• 52:15
  a mother has lost a child, she can never be happy again, because
• 52:19
  I do not agree. I' m happy. I feel full, I
• 52:25
  ' m excited about a lot of things. I' m still excited about
• 52:30
  a lot of things in life. I think there are still many adventures to
• 52:34
  live, but I have had to relearn to live without David, whom one
• 52:39
  day I will see again hear how beautiful all these reflections, besides this testimonial
• 52:47
  experience and what we have spoken is magnificent. I think it is doing a
• 52:52
  lot of good to many people who have lived it, who are living it
• 52:57
  or who have friends or family in the area of influence. And this is
• 53:00
  balsamic. And it also guides and helps. And for that very reason the
• 53:07
  Evangelical Alliance has organized a workshop on Saturday, April 29, which can be
• 53:14
  by zoo, not for the people who want to follow it. How to
• 53:16
  create a grieving aid group, right, tell us a little bit. This
• 53:21
  yes, well, for a while now, well, I don' t
• 53:28
  know if our listeners know him, but you do, Marcos Zapata, who
• 53:31
  is the president of the Evangelical Alliance, proposed to me the idea of creating
• 53:37
  groups to prevent suicide and accompany and help the mourning? Why with the idea
• 53:43
  of forming, informing, teaching, bringing light to the churches, Spanish speaking
• 53:52
  with the aim of forming, because there is a lot of ignorance right within
• 53:59
  the churches in relation to mourning, in relation to suicide. Many leaders may
• 54:07
  not know how to deal with all these things. So, well, we
• 54:15
  have created this group in which they are part of different people, among them,
• 54:19
  so, to see that I' m going to tie up here,
• 54:27
  is Charo López Pareja, who is a cop, a police girl, and
• 54:30
  who also created the association Vence that is an association for prevention and help victims,
• 54:37
  relatives, victims of which have died by suicide. Then there is Hans
• 54:44
  claus Ewen, who is a German shepherd, as he says a German shepherd
• 54:47
  who does not bite. In addition, he has written several books about grief,
• 54:52
  Yes, very good. And then there' s conchi González, who
• 54:58
  ' s in Galicia and she' s a psychologist, she' s frames
• 55:00
  and there' s me. So, what we' re doing periodically every
• 55:05
  good x months. We meet regularly every month. And the idea is to
• 55:14
  teach, teach, teach about different things. We did some workshops recently on
• 55:17
  the accompaniment in the mourning and charo God on the prevention of suicide. And
• 55:23
  now this is what he' s trying to teach. The aim is to
• 55:30
  teach people to create mourning support groups within churches, who may be trained to
• 55:35
  do so. So, we' re going to teach you how to create
• 55:42
  a grief aid group, which is a grief help group? How should it
• 55:45
  work, how should it work or how should it work? Give some brushstrokes
• 55:52
  so that they begin to see people, specialized groups within churches that can be
• 55:58
  dedicated, I do not tell you in exclusivity, but that it is another
• 56:04
  tool for ecclesiastical or ecclesiastical within churches. So, April 29th, as you
• 56:10
  well said at 5: 00 p m through a link that I guess you
• 56:17
  ' ll spend later. No yes, yes, I' m already climbing
• 56:22
  it to the wall, to the walls of Facebook and Instagram, to both,
• 56:25
  then nothing. People just have to sign up. It' s not
• 56:31
  free, because Marcos has come to the conclusion that free things a lot of
• 56:37
  people sign up and then they don' t go. No. So you
• 56:38
  already know that creating these events is not the same platform for a hundred as
• 56:44
  for five hundred, as for a thousand people. Then it is put as
• 56:51
  a donation five euros for the person who pays it, because it says hears,
• 56:55
  because this interests me. I want to do it. Then the organizer,
• 56:59
  Carlos Fumero, already knows. Well, we' re going to create
• 57:04
  a platform, they' ve signed up, they' ve written a hundred
• 57:07
  or two hundred, so let' s see how we do it. Not
• 57:07
  magnificent, magnificent, done, this is priceless. I' d tell you
• 57:14
  yes, that' s right here. I think it' s interesting to
• 57:15
  keep on training and learning and being in order or knowing what' s happening
• 57:22
  in the world and that we' re people who have some training for different
• 57:29
  things. I think it' s important that there are people within the churches
• 57:36
  who specialize in something. I always say ah forgive, no, no,
• 57:40
  no, go ahead, I believe you I always say that when a person
• 57:46
  I have a vision of the Church as a hospital, as a place where
• 57:52
  people arrive with a series of ailments apart from their desire to follow Jesus.
• 57:58
  But we all come with backpacks. So, if you notice, I don
• 58:02
  ' t know if you' ve had to go to the E R,
• 58:05
  I hope not, but I, with six children, imagine the times I
• 58:07
  ' ve gone to the E R. So we all know that when we
• 58:10
  get to the E R, the first thing they do is a triage.
• 58:14
  No, then, first they take you to a little room where there'
• 58:19
  s a nurse, where she asks you a series of things and finds out
• 58:23
  what your discomfort is, what your pain is, and then they already refer
• 58:29
  you to a heart specialist or a trauma, everything or whatever, not then
• 58:32
  I think that in the churches it would be good if there was something like
• 58:37
  a kind of triage. When a newly converted person arrives, let' s
• 58:40
  see what backpack this person brings, where it comes from, because if not,
• 58:45
  if you notice, I know we' re drifting, but there are
• 58:50
  people who have been in the Church for years and years and carry the same
• 58:54
  backpack. Yes, ma' am, because maybe it hasn' t been
• 58:58
  figured out, not what it is you' re carrying. And I'
• 59:01
  m telling you this because I have psychologist friends who have told me that many
• 59:07
  times it comes to someone with a series of problems and they start throwing and
• 59:13
  it' s a poorly crafted duel. When they were little, Grandma died,
• 59:17
  they pulled her out of the way. She never saw Granny again,
• 59:20
  no one said anything to her, she took away in silence and was traumatized.
• 59:23
  Or what used to be said was that the children were not taken to
• 59:28
  the cemetery or taken away because the children had to be taken out. In
• 59:31
  the midst of all this, I believe that children have to live naturally.
• 59:37
  What' s happening. Death is part of life and as soon as you
• 59:40
  see it more naturally, you will be able to live it. And tomorrow,
• 59:45
  if you have to go through a duel, you' ll be more
• 59:52
  prepared. No doubt. It' s certainly not very interesting what you'
• 59:54
  re saying. It' s true that you don' t. And the
• 59:57
  workshop comes to the hair for it' s a formidable tool. We are
• 1:00:02
  seeing, for example, suicide assistance also to accompany this is another chapter we
• 1:00:07
  want to help people. We' ve got it in our DNA. It
• 1:00:12
  is our vocation to accompany people in their pain and to know how to give
• 1:00:19
  them some tools or answers in addition to the intelligent company. I said no
• 1:00:24
  and I was thinking. Finally, already on the subject of everything we'
• 1:00:29
  ve talked about during the pandemic, people who couldn' t process the mourning
• 1:00:32
  because they lost their loved ones and couldn' t even see them. But
• 1:00:37
  a lot, there were hundreds and thousands of people who could not say goodbye
• 1:00:44
  to their spouse, their son, their grandfather, their mother, their father.
• 1:00:47
  Well, a tragedy that was a national tragedy, really, totally.
• 1:00:52
  In fact, I don' t know if you know Julio that I believe
• 1:00:58
  in grief relief groups. I until then my grief relief groups were face-
• 1:01:01
  to- face. In my ibiza a beautiful living room with my candles aromatized
• 1:01:07
  that if the music is in the soft. That is, because it was
• 1:01:12
  very important to me, because I continue to give it to the embrace of
• 1:01:16
  the Presence. But all of a sudden, this is over. Then we
• 1:01:21
  had to look for an alternative and I began to receive requests for help to
• 1:01:28
  the duel from places that you can least imagine, from the Argentine pampa,
• 1:01:35
  from Bolivia, from Lima, from different places in the world. People were
• 1:01:38
  asking me, but you guys have groups online and I said no. I
• 1:01:45
  ' d say no. Me. I don' t know how it'
• 1:01:49
  s done until I learned when I started seeing so much demand. And that
• 1:01:52
  ' s what I found. A lot of people who maybe, because they
• 1:01:58
  haven' t seen the family in months. Suddenly they tell him the father,
• 1:02:02
  they take him to the hospital, they die in the hospital. They
• 1:02:07
  don' t even know if the boxes that gave them mortuary were their relative
• 1:02:16
  inside or the covid thing It was terrible, terrible, terrible, because,
• 1:02:22
  as you well said, performing the grieving tasks is fundamental and one of them
• 1:02:30
  is the ceremonies. The ceremonies help to put a point and end, the
• 1:02:36
  encounter with relatives, with friends, to bury the person who has died,
• 1:02:40
  to fire them to receive the hugs of one and the other. Sure,
• 1:02:45
  when does this go away? When this disappears, of course people stay?
• 1:02:51
  It was very painful. But then they started creating groups. He came out
• 1:02:57
  of the tzoom so people could see each other, even if it was through
• 1:03:00
  the screen, they could create some sort of farewell ceremony. But, thank
• 1:03:07
  God, that' s already happened. But we keep the zum that'
• 1:03:10
  s wonderful. Yes, yes, yes and good And by the way,
• 1:03:14
  on the 29th of April we go in addition to our listeners, on the
• 1:03:19
  page of the Evangelical Alliance entered the ueblant and there are all the details.
• 1:03:23
  Also, on my radio wave page, on the page of the Spanish Evangelical
• 1:03:28
  Alliance, you see all the details of the day. That how to access
• 1:03:34
  and everything accurate and understand is very simple. You' ll have to fill
• 1:03:39
  out a form and it' s already there. Then on the 29th,
• 1:03:43
  which is a Saturday, we will connect at five o' clock in the
• 1:03:46
  afternoon and then we will tell a little bit how to create this group.
• 1:03:49
  Then there will be a round table. It' s very interesting. The
• 1:03:52
  truth is that the other one we did the previous one had a lot,
• 1:03:57
  very good acceptance. There were a lot of people connected. And good for
• 1:04:00
  what they tell us, because then they hang in the Evangelical Alliance, they
• 1:04:05
  hang articles. And I think it' s a way, like you said,
• 1:04:12
  of learning about the things we' re needing. Not without a doubt.
• 1:04:17
  No doubt listen, Gina, it' s been a great pleasure to
• 1:04:21
  be with you again. I also remember being good at many experiences we have
• 1:04:27
  experienced. Radio you are a radio woman of the medium too, but the
• 1:04:32
  year that you were in Barcelona, already with the program and well, with
• 1:04:36
  two programs also very singular, very relaxed. Uh, yeah, I missed
• 1:04:43
  you so much when you left that well, I had a good time.
• 1:04:46
  Thanks for giving me this window, this opportunity, because I had a great
• 1:04:50
  time. You remember what Julio was called. Yeah, well, one is
• 1:04:54
  saying goodbye and the other is good. The show you were doing was this
• 1:04:59
  one I can' t believe. I can' t believe it. That
• 1:05:02
  ' s true, but besides, it was very original things that were being
• 1:05:06
  dealt with. It was the idea, not to rescue things that happen in
• 1:05:12
  the world you say. I can' t believe people put their faith maybe
• 1:05:15
  in bottles of bottled water that I know is going to do, I don
• 1:05:20
  ' t remember anymore, but the truth is I had a good time,
• 1:05:24
  all right, all right. You have an extraordinary station and there we go
• 1:05:30
  well, as I send you a very affectionate hug and a greeting towards July
• 1:05:34
  and at any moment we can see ourselves until soon gins, but until soon
• 1:05:40
  chao chao. Thank God, I can, too. The greatest pain occurs
• 1:06:08
  when the most we want the pain or the greatest comes to us as a
• 1:06:18
  blow to the heart without warning today that we are no longer there, today
• 1:06:29
  that I have this pain and feel a great void and I can not fill
• 1:06:35
  today that is no longer this only remains in the moments that gives the lived
• 1:06:45
  to travel. He never dies when he leaves, he just dies You just
• 1:06:53
  want to forget. Now you' re everywhere you' re part of my
• 1:06:59
  life. From where you are and to heal my wounds, never die who
• 1:07:09
  goes only die you want to forget? Today I feel you everywhere, in
• 1:07:16
  a gasta, in a burning flame you are my angel you wink at me.
• 1:07:25
  Never dies who leaves love never ends. Grievous pain can sustain us and
• 1:07:42
  you are not reminding anyone of the greatest pain. Only time takes it away,
• 1:07:53
  although a moment today that is no longer having this pain and being great
• 1:08:02
  emptiness, I cannot fill today that it is no longer only left in the
• 1:08:13
  moments that give the lived rough age. Who ever dies, who just dies,
• 1:08:24
  who forgets? Now you are everywhere pathetic beings of my life, from
• 1:08:31
  where you are dry, my wounds, never dies, that you leave only
• 1:08:44
  dies what you forget today saying everywhere in a mestá in a burning flame you
• 1:08:50
  are my angel you guide me. Never die who goes love, never,
• 1:09:04
  nothing, Never finish my project study in the United States and teach them how
• 1:09:15
  to play football They are really Emilio and Raúl and one of them has schizophrenia,
• 1:09:19
  but their dreams, like those of anyone else, have no limits.
• 1:09:23
  Let' s not put them on us. Integration is always the best response
• 1:09:27
  for the social inclusion of people with mental health problems, Ministry of Health,
• 1:09:30
  Social Services of Equality, Government of Spain. I' m up to it.
• 1:09:34
  I' ve got two sorroco left They won' t sneeze at the
• 1:09:39
  bartender I don' t panic between the containers. We can have a new
• 1:09:40
  life or the cereal house you' re right. We can be useful and
• 1:09:44
  do not recycle with forty plastic bottles. If you make a lining for the
• 1:09:45
  or libri say yes and this stem we will do. What a quaqui bike
• 1:09:50
  and give a new life to the containers. Put them in their container and
• 1:09:55
  take care of the environment. How much to give a new life packaging recycles
• 1:10:00
  San Marcos and COHENMBS communities. Never leave me alone in the bathtub or places
• 1:10:05
  with water. Don' t let them emit luis fingers on a plug.
• 1:10:10
  Don' t leave me at the age of an open window. I told
• 1:10:13
  to my tosic substances, to micamientos, you already let me swallow the small
• 1:10:18
  pieces of toys. If you neglect your eyes, you can be dangerous to
• 1:10:23
  your children. Don' t neglect to avoid accidents. For what you want
• 1:10:26
  most Ministry of Health and I consume a government of Spain or you travel on
• 1:10:34
  the train of life and we have arrived as well as the one that does
• 1:10:50
  intentionally want the thing to Dr Rock' s medical consultation. There are the
• 1:10:56
  different allergies and their possible treatments for them. The other rock is going to
• 1:11:01
  help us a little bit figure out the primary reasons for allergies. Come on,
• 1:11:13
  Dr Rocca, you wanted a friend Hi, Julio. Allergies are expected.
• 1:11:19
  There is a certain expectation that they may be somewhat of a source of
• 1:11:26
  anger. Right. The truth is, we' re already seeing and treating
• 1:11:30
  patients. They are consulted for this reason, because, for example, an
• 1:11:35
  allergy to our listeners is a reaction of our immune system. Those who suffer
• 1:11:42
  from it toward something that does not bother most other people, but those who
• 1:11:46
  have allergies are often sensitive to more than one thing. For example, the
• 1:11:50
  substances that usually cause reactions are pollen, dust removals, mold spores, animal
• 1:11:56
  dandruff, certain foods, insect bites, medicines that can also cause serious allergies.
• 1:12:09
  The truth is our immune system, of course this cannot be predicted to
• 1:12:17
  have a true allergy at any time. The truth is that it is not
• 1:12:25
  a question that, as doctors ask ourselves very often, it is not why
• 1:12:30
  in recent decades we have seen so dramatically increase the number of allergic to see
• 1:12:35
  shame, there always were, but not in the volume in which we have
• 1:12:41
  been living and searched and searched and there are some answers. We know that,
• 1:12:48
  apart from the existence of all these allergens, dandruff, animals, mites
• 1:12:54
  that are in our rooms, our beds, our sofas, in addition to
• 1:13:00
  the pollens, there must be something else that is the real cause for some
• 1:13:08
  people to develop an energy that others do not develop. And some answers have
• 1:13:15
  been shown. One of them is that it seems that there are molecules in
• 1:13:20
  the air in suspension coming from the combustion of the engines tene and those substances,
• 1:13:30
  because they are going to terarmamunitarian, in such a way that we have
• 1:13:36
  greater ease to develop an allergy, a legia always has to be there a
• 1:13:41
  protein, a protein that is strange in our organism. And when I come
• 1:13:45
  into contact with this protein, then there' s a reaction. But it
• 1:13:50
  is not a moderate reaction, but a tremendously exaggerated relationship. It can even
• 1:13:56
  become dependent on intensity. It can be such. In fact, unfortunately,
• 1:14:00
  I do not know if you will remember from a few years ago here in
• 1:14:05
  the Port of Barcelona, that a ship loaded with soy arrived. Yes,
• 1:14:10
  and it did not happen was tremendous, because there was, indeed, a
• 1:14:16
  tremendous problem the leaves, not of the elements also frequent. As for his
• 1:14:23
  polvito, it is that looses that it can cause, because great poems of
• 1:14:29
  allergy. But here, let' s say, in our area, in
• 1:14:33
  our territory, we have two large groups that is that of the sacks and
• 1:14:38
  that is not springtime, it is not related to seasonality, but we are
• 1:14:43
  seeing all year round and that of the pollens, which is so, it
• 1:14:48
  is seasonal and that is now at its peak and surely we have it for
• 1:14:55
  a long time or just, so you used to comment on the great amount
• 1:15:00
  of rain and also the tons and tons that are in suspension of pollens in
• 1:15:05
  the atmosphere. For example, what you have said about diesel bro uncle for
• 1:15:10
  engines ten is already being warned and, in fact, there are already big
• 1:15:15
  brands, not only that they are decreasing, but that they are stopping making
• 1:15:21
  engines ten l That is, it is expected that in order to remember which
• 1:15:26
  year no longer exists, tenel cars are no longer manufactured, everything is gasoline,
• 1:15:34
  pure. It' s not like we' re turning our planet into
• 1:15:41
  some kind of latrine. The polluted seas. Plastics are everywhere, even in
• 1:15:46
  the pantas of marines, in the atmosphere molecules, well, some are natural
• 1:15:54
  and have to be there because it is their place, and there is a
• 1:15:58
  purpose. We are the pollens, but then the men add there a lofadal
• 1:16:03
  of strange molecules because of fossil fuels and other substances. Some of them are
• 1:16:13
  perhaps less concentrated and, therefore, perhaps less motivated, but others are not,
• 1:16:19
  and one of them sees the products that eliminate the combustion of gazo engines.
• 1:16:27
  S So, this is no longer a problem that is known now.
• 1:16:30
  We have been in the past for years, and we know whether to get
• 1:16:33
  into chemistry, the chemical route, because to say that this is a problem
• 1:16:41
  that has been known for years and that we had to give a solution and
• 1:16:45
  finally goodbye. Thank you, because it seems that the top ten, ten
• 1:16:48
  have their days numbered and that this we suppose could improve. It should also
• 1:16:57
  improve the volume of allergic people and other respiratory problems that we find all year
• 1:17:02
  round, because not only will combustion generate a harmful contamination that will cause gers,
• 1:17:10
  but it will generate a contamination that will cause multitude and multitude of respiratory
• 1:17:14
  pathologies. Because of this contamination, respiratory allergies hope, especially allergies that have
• 1:17:26
  to do with asthma. This is delicate, because there are cases that can
• 1:17:33
  become highly sensitive and seriously endanger people' s health. With the asthma issue.
• 1:17:43
  There are people who suffer to a superlative degree. Yes, and also
• 1:17:48
  that is to say that there are cases in which they are more serious,
• 1:17:54
  because there are people who good at coming into contact with an allergen, will
• 1:18:00
  segregate greater volume of mucus, block, there will be basis of sneezing respiratory
• 1:18:05
  ditty. But there' s a kind of percentage of patients that are for
• 1:18:14
  me, the believers and the most at risk. But what they do is
• 1:18:16
  a bronchial spasm, the bronque, when it comes into contact with the geno,
• 1:18:23
  contracts that part of hypertrophy muscles contract preventing the passage of air and clear
• 1:18:28
  that of tremendous consequences. Well, even as you said quite rightly they can
• 1:18:34
  carry and, by deracially we' ve lived it. They can lead the
• 1:18:36
  patient to death in case the doctor is not there at that time, it
• 1:18:42
  takes time to consult, sometimes the family' s little success has to be
• 1:18:49
  moved. How to react, especially if it occurs in rural areas now early
• 1:18:54
  in the morning, that is, complications. There' s no emergency service
• 1:18:58
  24 hours, there' s no hospital nearby. Well, unfortunately we have
• 1:19:02
  experienced this situation and the patient has become critical. Or it' s for
• 1:19:10
  terminal. It' s very serious. Very serious. Sure, sure,
• 1:19:13
  sure, treatments and therapies. In addition to nasal sprays, antistamines and anti
• 1:19:21
  - allergic injections, there is also the issue of vaccines to assess the possibilities
• 1:19:28
  of detecting the causative agent. Not true. The issue of vaccines. The
• 1:19:35
  vaccine you already know that means that the treatment is punctured, an intermuscular sucultary
• 1:19:44
  whatever, but punctured and this can sometimes reinforce new problems. You have to
• 1:19:50
  be very careful. Some of us prefer, I unquestionably prefer oral v has
• 1:19:57
  the great advantage that the organism will take what it needs and what the latrine
• 1:20:01
  will not discard and we will have far fewer problems, much less complications.
• 1:20:08
  These laboratories care about and make study, research and market vaccines. And this
• 1:20:16
  kind of pathway we call vaccines, we call it isotherapy. It would be
• 1:20:23
  the same thing that causes the disease. We use it as a medicine,
• 1:20:27
  because there are very prestigious laboratories and that their products really work wonderfully well.
• 1:20:33
  Even some very frequent allergies already have classified small bottles, type vejiguita of plastic,
• 1:20:42
  because, with the monodoses of this vaccine from sotherapy to decensitize the patient.
• 1:20:48
  The problem we also live in is that, as we are immersed in
• 1:20:54
  this valley of pollution, because sometimes the patient heals an allergy and develops a
• 1:21:00
  new one. This I can see with relative frequency. When a patient has
• 1:21:05
  given in a treatment, it has been positive, beneficial, the patient has
• 1:21:11
  improved dramatically, it has even healed and after x years it reappears with alertness,
• 1:21:15
  because already one suspects and many times when we repeat the tests of allergy,
• 1:21:21
  we discover, therefore, a new cause. And the truth is that
• 1:21:26
  this is quite, quite common with pollens, with food, it' s
• 1:21:31
  quite complex. It' s a very exciting subject, but it' s
• 1:21:35
  quite complex. Yes, it has a very particular complexity. The other rock
• 1:21:41
  before we say goodbye. There' s an allergy. There' s an
• 1:21:45
  allergy, an answer to this big question. There' s an allergy.
• 1:21:49
  In recent times, it wasn' t that much. I' m saying
• 1:21:54
  not to remember them in the past either. In the past there were things,
• 1:21:58
  for that is good, that we have improved a lot and that are
• 1:22:02
  and better that they have disappeared. But there are other things that weren'
• 1:22:04
  t and there was something in the environment in the past. I' m
• 1:22:08
  not talking about repression of religion, which there was also a lot of it,
• 1:22:15
  but there was a sense of respect. Let us call the figure of
• 1:22:24
  that God who somehow did not know where he was at all right, but
• 1:22:28
  who had created us. We' ve become allergic. Our society has become
• 1:22:33
  allergic, authentically allergic, to contact with God, to the search for that
• 1:22:40
  God that we so much need truth, the truth that you are bringing all
• 1:22:45
  reason to chastity, to which society has a good part. He seems to
• 1:22:51
  have an alert. One of them is the word God. Another allergy is
• 1:22:58
  the word Church, to which one speaks of Church, God, Gospel,
• 1:23:01
  Evangelical, Christianity, etcetera. Well, we see that there is in some
• 1:23:13
  of our neighbors, in the people with whom we relate some kind of tartullidos.
• 1:23:17
  There is an allergy red because, well, what happens is that when
• 1:23:24
  we analyze and when we speak in depth and there are people who are very
• 1:23:29
  that, not and good, because they have an attitude to life, to
• 1:23:35
  the universe. On the other hand, you have others that not others,
• 1:23:40
  because you will really reason some of them because being at an intermediate point diagnosticism
• 1:23:51
  of difficulty in accepting, but there are some that do. So, when
• 1:23:56
  we go to the cause, no, I' ve wondered good, why.
• 1:24:00
  Why people, traditionally human beings. Since prehistory we know that the human
• 1:24:06
  being has sought God through religion. Religion, for it has that purpose.
• 1:24:14
  So when the human being has sought God, especially in Christialism, we know
• 1:24:17
  that God comes to pass, but in all cultures, all over the world,
• 1:24:24
  from history, we see that there is this search for the spiritual and
• 1:24:28
  suddenly it is like that, because you general said it very acesarously, a
• 1:24:33
  kind of allergy And of course, then one has to realize the ones of
• 1:24:39
  the one who lives. The sequence is the one we live with. It
• 1:24:43
  is a society that has in Jewish Christian principles, especially Christians. Now the
• 1:24:49
  Jewish, it' s there at the root, but we don' t
• 1:24:53
  see it so much anymore, we don' t perceive it so much anymore,
• 1:24:55
  but the Christian. And then people often have no problems with God,
• 1:24:59
  but with Christians. There' s one that brings her in, and there
• 1:25:04
  ' s the secret. Then I always tell people we share. The faith
• 1:25:11
  is that the Christian must live, live in the city, he must try
• 1:25:14
  to be of an extraordinarily formal conduct, because that pleases God and, besides
• 1:25:21
  that, it is light to the world. Look at yesterday, at the
• 1:25:27
  Bible study, at the Church, with the brothers of Martorel we were commenting
• 1:25:31
  on the well- known texts of you are the salt of the world.
• 1:25:38
  And the Lord Jesus does not say you have the salt of the world,
• 1:25:42
  but you are. And then he says he also speaks of the light and
• 1:25:46
  also says that he is the light of the world and that we are the
• 1:25:50
  light of the world. There is there a reflection of its holiness and its
• 1:25:57
  characteristics. But sometimes we' ve wanted Jew we do it so poorly?
• 1:26:03
  We do it so poorly that then people do not see in many Christians or
• 1:26:10
  in many pseudo- Christians what they should see. Then we blame God for
• 1:26:16
  everything. God is like this since Adam and Eve sinned. You know,
• 1:26:21
  Adam blamed the woman, the woman of the foot, and the serpent had
• 1:26:27
  to shut up. He was guilty, but the jeds were guilty. And
• 1:26:32
  that' s where we all go. Many times we blame God for our
• 1:26:35
  misfortunes, for our insanity, for the misfortunes for which we are responsible and
• 1:26:41
  mothered the name of God. People curse God' s name when it goes
• 1:26:46
  wrong, but they don' t remember God when it' s right.
• 1:26:50
  It' s a society full of contractions, so I think we can heal
• 1:26:57
  from that ally. Goodbye is the allergy to Christianity and it is knowing him
• 1:27:04
  personally. God can be known personally. Moreover, although he is the highest
• 1:27:11
  character in history, neither kings nor anyone is taller than God, but God
• 1:27:15
  is in the position of humility, in the stubbornness of Christ and is ready
• 1:27:20
  to receive us all right now, each of us, and he has the
• 1:27:25
  answer. He is the answer, because small saves of the equation of this
• 1:27:30
  world to the person of Christ, the one who remains nothing. This is
• 1:27:33
  devastation, moral devastation, devastation in every way. And well, he is
• 1:27:43
  the Creator God, he knows our nature and he has so much compassion for
• 1:27:50
  us that we still often feel his caress, in the midst of our ignorance,
• 1:27:56
  in the midst of our evil to do, in the midst of our
• 1:27:59
  failures, that we all dare already myself, but he and, being there
• 1:28:03
  to leave like the eternal rock of the centuries that we can trust, because
• 1:28:10
  he has overcome, we will overcome so it is, dear friend, I
• 1:28:16
  believe it is a masterful conclusion to take into account that counterpoint of something that
• 1:28:24
  seems also vital to the health of the soul and to the destiny of the
• 1:28:30
  human being here and now, because purgatory does not exist. This, yes,
• 1:28:31
  which is a true invention, is an invention of the Middle Ages,
• 1:28:34
  nonexistent in the Bible. Don' t say hello to that or out of
• 1:28:39
  amazement. Well Dr Roca, dear friend, we are satisfied with what you
• 1:28:45
  have told us to take into account some things yes and, above all to
• 1:28:50
  go to consult if necessary, welcome. Thank you well, thank you,
• 1:28:56
  a hug that gramidista so goodbye the train of life you when you find the
• 1:29:50
  meshes with his sword for you borders, you contiguously beat flagbantar to tusca,
• 1:30:30
  you conduct faint with his spread for your grari france psychotista you will conquer flag
• 1:30:57
  bantara. Not without pain, no cattle. Everything costs a value for which
• 1:31:26
  you have to fight, even though you stumble that it would matter to win,
• 1:31:36
  if it was so easy, to fight the goal and at the end
• 1:31:47
  that you will know more if I don' t know, sometimes you have
• 1:31:54
  to be bumping in order to be able. Thank you and reach a little
• 1:32:00
  maturity, because there would be no way to know how to twirl what will
• 1:32:15
  come. The pain in your times can be so cruel but God won'
• 1:32:25
  t let you stay ah any longer. You don' t want to go
• 1:32:48
  through difficulty, but sometimes it boils to awaken the gift inside it goes and
• 1:33:02
  get out of the comfort that you will read the place and to the goal
• 1:33:11
  confirm it to advance. If you are Sometimes you have to be shaken up
• 1:33:18
  to move, grow and reach a little more fearlessness, because glory would be
• 1:33:34
  a way to handle what will happen The pain can be so hard and so
• 1:33:47
  cruel, but God won' t let us stay there any longer in power
• 1:34:00
  that we can bear. If you can create, anything is possible. If
• 1:34:19
  you can create, confess that it is, even if you can' t
• 1:34:26
  see. If you can believe, no matter what miracle it is it has
• 1:34:32
  to do according to its will it is to make clear victory, not fear.
• 1:34:49
  If you can believe this is what Luis, Juanjo' s friend,
• 1:35:00
  said to prevent him from abusing his partner. When there' s abuse in
• 1:35:08
  a couple, it' s not just couple stuff. Don' t allow
• 1:35:12
  gender- based violence. Call zero sixteen There' s an exit from the
• 1:35:15
  Ministry of Health, Social Services and Equality. Government of Spain prohibited tweeting while
• 1:35:19
  with your I have forbidden chatting with your scepter and villa you do in eulogy
• 1:35:23
  of the dangers are so obvious that it is not a matter of prohibition.
• 1:35:25
  It' s a matter of common sense, because the smarter our phones are,
• 1:35:30
  the stupider the deaths they cause behind the wheel. Ninety- nine percent
• 1:35:32
  of your attention isn' t enough. Directorate- General for Traffic, Ministry
• 1:35:36
  of the Interior, Government of Spain. If you have drinking problems and you
• 1:35:42
  see that you just can' t solve them, maybe we can help you.
• 1:35:47
  Groups of anonymous alcoholics are the solution for millions of people around the world.
• 1:35:54
  Call us on the phone nine, three, three, seventeen, seventy
• 1:35:59
  - seven, seventy- seven, the train of life, an exciting journey
• 1:36:15
  along the paths of the heart, an unforgettable trip at the rhythm of trems.
• 1:37:13
  Well, ladies and gentlemen, now, in a few moments we are
• 1:37:18
  already in zoom communication, but also audio for all our listeners of the modulated
• 1:37:25
  frequency in the different Spanish cities. Think that every week more than a hundred
• 1:37:30
  major cities in Spain tune in to the train of life. Then I am
• 1:37:36
  sometimes in a city when I go from here, I imitate it since Thursdays
• 1:37:41
  leaves our hangar the train of life in march and on Friday Saturday I sometimes
• 1:37:45
  travel to different Spanish cities and go around, I go with some friend or
• 1:37:50
  some pastor who is taking me here and listen to the program. I tell
• 1:37:58
  you well, I' m glad that you can hear it and I hope
• 1:38:02
  that the interviews are helpful and that they help, that they are. The
• 1:38:06
  purpose is for them to be a social help service as well as the one
• 1:38:13
  we have talked about. Well then, ladies and gentlemen, we already have
• 1:38:17
  our friend Alfonso closet there that we are going to go in with him to
• 1:38:25
  talk about the topic of the apostolic fathers, the first leaders of the church
• 1:38:29
  beyond the apostles who died. The last living apostle was John, who died
• 1:38:32
  about ninety- eight, apparently for dating. He died in Ephesus after having
• 1:38:40
  also had a captivity on the island of Patmos. And, well, there
• 1:38:46
  are more things that are very interesting. We' re going to make some
• 1:38:50
  breaks because, obviously, the subject is immense and I' m going to
• 1:38:57
  welcome my good friend, the doctor, also historian and writer, Alfonso Ropero
• 1:39:01
  good morning, Alfonso Hello, Good morning, Well, Alfonso. We could
• 1:39:06
  talk about a thousand themes, but the theme of parental patristics, what is
• 1:39:13
  patristic from the most popular point of view to situate our listeners a little bit?
• 1:39:18
  What is the patristic one that has to do with the origins? After
• 1:39:25
  the years of Jesus and the apostles in the world, when they all disappear,
• 1:39:29
  they are the ones who continue the work, the Christian work and how
• 1:39:35
  this would be defined. Yes, patristic is a name given to an academic
• 1:39:42
  discipline that has at last the study of the more of the Church. Istristics
• 1:39:46
  within certain seminaries, for it studies or if it was important, the study
• 1:39:56
  of the church, understanding as the Father of the Church, the successors of
• 1:40:00
  the apostles. Once they are dead, the cane, the so- called
• 1:40:04
  new testament, closes. But Christianity continued. After the new will. Works
• 1:40:10
  continued to be written, including some very famous ones that almost entered the canon,
• 1:40:16
  such as the Letters of Clement Romano or the Shepherd of Hermas. That
• 1:40:20
  ' s already part of that part or falls into the category of patristics.
• 1:40:27
  That and then were the names as well known as Jerome Agustín Gpona, for
• 1:40:33
  that is the subject given in certain academies at that period, to the study
• 1:40:41
  not only of the life of his men, but of his works. Yes,
• 1:40:45
  because of course the ge was, for example, one of the writings,
• 1:40:48
  Pastor Armas, one of the most popular of the first after the apostolic
• 1:40:53
  era. True, exactly if it was the immediate writings. Let us say
• 1:41:00
  that patristics introduces us to what happened in the church after the death of the
• 1:41:08
  apostles. He certainly didn' t disappear. The church has already been on
• 1:41:13
  earth for two thousand years and, moreover, interesting I know that in the
• 1:41:17
  evangelical world, although a fact that is true, the reform was the first
• 1:41:26
  that already in the sixteenth century, they put patristics as a subject in their
• 1:41:30
  studies, because sometimes it is thought that patristics is also spoken of as patrology.
• 1:41:35
  It belongs to a rightful defect which he believes is in the proper right
• 1:41:40
  of the Catholic Church. But it' s not like that. Protestants,
• 1:41:42
  Luther as well as Calvin and other authors, including the Spanish evangelicals, such
• 1:41:46
  as Salamuel Villa, in their books, as well as returning to the sources,
• 1:41:54
  sought the Bible on the one hand, but also wanted this biblical teaching
• 1:41:58
  to be confirmed by the ancient authors, the so- called Fathers of the
• 1:42:00
  Church. So, the Protestants of the sixteenth century, in order to say
• 1:42:09
  give a certain character of seriousness to what they bring of continuity of rupture.
• 1:42:15
  They have They were the first to create the professorship of patrology, that is,
• 1:42:19
  of study of the parents to show that they were rebels who were breaking
• 1:42:26
  the Church. They simply continued what they believed to be the best of the
• 1:42:30
  Church in the Bible and in the parents, the parents of the churches.
• 1:42:39
  The characteristics, as you are saying, of the patristics of the initial Fathers
• 1:42:43
  of the post- Apostolic Church who pre- empt and defend Christian beliefs before
• 1:42:48
  the pagan dogs of the time, regard the faith as the only truth and
• 1:42:54
  knowledge, above all other knowledge and many more things that also have to do
• 1:43:00
  with the philosophy of the time. True, yes, it has to do
• 1:43:03
  with philosophy and a fact for us to understand about the Christian faith. We
• 1:43:10
  have been Christians for many years and we have a great legacy of a great
• 1:43:15
  heritage. But there is a curious fact that can guide us, and that
• 1:43:19
  is that the Christian faith began as a translation movement that I mean by this
• 1:43:27
  and to the same, Lord Jesus Christ, does not follow the Old Testament
• 1:43:30
  to the letter. He clearly tells the men and women of his day and,
• 1:43:34
  above all, the doctors and the scribes and the Pharisees. Have you
• 1:43:41
  heard that it was told to our fathers or elders, but I tell you
• 1:43:45
  then he says have you heard of the eye for an eye, tooth for
• 1:43:50
  a tooth? I say amaze the enemy who has your cheek to right and
• 1:43:54
  puts you on the left or the other way around. Then a rereading is
• 1:43:58
  done. He after rhinestones the Old Testament in the light of what he considers
• 1:44:03
  to be the essence of God, who is God love, since they had
• 1:44:08
  derived that newer doctrine in Jesus Christ, God is love from the beginning.
• 1:44:15
  But the Pharisees had concentrated on the legislator God and had made a sort of
• 1:44:21
  system of laws. I think there' s one. They codified six hundred,
• 1:44:27
  and I do not know how many laws they needed to be fulfilled to
• 1:44:31
  please God and Jesus Christ, for he understands that this is not the basis
• 1:44:38
  of the law, and that is why the law is summed up in only
• 1:44:40
  two laws. In six hundred and sixty- six thousand we go and say
• 1:44:45
  that we love God and love the next for him. Then to the translation
• 1:44:49
  that he does And the Church will do the same when he reads the Old
• 1:44:53
  Testament and St Paul himself already begins with that spiritual way of understanding it.
• 1:45:00
  Sarah, Abraham' s wife, is the symbol of the free Church and
• 1:45:04
  to give that she was the slave concubine. It was, for those who
• 1:45:10
  live under the law mean that they make a spiritual translation of the Old Testament.
• 1:45:15
  They don' t take it to the letter. They take it in
• 1:45:17
  the light of the spirit of that letter, in the light of Jesus'
• 1:45:21
  teaching. And that' s why the apostles. This translation is produced and
• 1:45:30
  the parents of the church continue the same translation. In fact, we'
• 1:45:34
  re always translating. We say, we read the Bible and the Bible says
• 1:45:40
  well, the Bible says according to our preconceptions. We' re always doing
• 1:45:45
  a translation job. When we read an ancient and modern text, then the
• 1:45:50
  Father of the Church what they do is complement or complete that process. And
• 1:45:56
  they make comments to the Old Testament, such as that stila still make Bible
• 1:46:02
  comments and apply those principles to the Old Testament. Christo told them that Moseser
• 1:46:09
  bears witness to me and that all scripture is a witness to Christ. Then
• 1:46:14
  they read the entire Old Testament in the light of Christ. Do not read
• 1:46:17
  it in the light of the law, do not read it in the light
• 1:46:20
  of Israel, do not read it in the light of the kingdom, but
• 1:46:26
  of the kingdom which is manifested in the person of Christ. And they do
• 1:46:29
  the same with philosophy, as we have commented because George, certainly, the
• 1:46:34
  Church begins very soon in the Gentile or pagan world, because first, because
• 1:46:41
  the Jews persecute the early Christians, like all to that fact of the apostles
• 1:46:45
  were dispersed. Stephen goes to Samaria and becomes Simon the Wizard, then to
• 1:46:50
  the Antioch and St Paul makes trips all over the world carrying the Gospel.
• 1:46:56
  But it also happens historically geographically, that the Jews rebel against Rome in the
• 1:47:02
  sixties and are totally destroyed by General Titus the Roman. And then they reveal
• 1:47:10
  themselves again in the year one hundred and thirty, and then, already when
• 1:47:13
  the Jewish state is totally destroyed and the Roman state even forbids the stay of
• 1:47:21
  the Jews physically in Israel. And it means that the Jewish world was no
• 1:47:28
  longer the one who questioned the missionaries. Now it' s the pagan world
• 1:47:35
  they' re missioning to. But of course, the pagan world was followed
• 1:47:40
  by another book, Not followed by the Old Testament. They were followed by
• 1:47:43
  their philosophers, by their myth, by their gods. Then they also make
• 1:47:47
  a translation of that philosophy and speak of the ci just as Paul says that
• 1:47:54
  the Jew is made to the Jew and Greek to the Greek the parents of
• 1:47:57
  the church, that period in which Christianity becomes Greek to the Greek and shows
• 1:48:01
  that true philosophy, which at that time, philosophy was the way of life
• 1:48:06
  that we still use today in colloquial language. We do not understand philosophy as
• 1:48:12
  an academic discipline. I have these my philosophies directly my way of being,
• 1:48:16
  this is my way of life. This was how philosophy was understood in ancient
• 1:48:20
  times and why the philosophy of the Christian era was the most important and had
• 1:48:25
  the most to do with the Spanish. Seneca, who was Spanish Cordobés,
• 1:48:30
  was stoic philosophy, which was a way to behave in life, in the
• 1:48:33
  face of happiness, but also in the face of misfortune. The death of
• 1:48:36
  a loved one a return from destiny that leads to ruin. How to deal
• 1:48:43
  with those situations that can destroy a person psychologically and physically That was called the
• 1:48:48
  end, I said tor and today we still say this we have to take
• 1:48:54
  it with philosophies, take it patiently, see it prologue against. So Christianity
• 1:48:57
  says this is Christianity, because Christianity, in this we all agree. It
• 1:49:01
  is neither a religion nor a philosophy. It' s a way to be
• 1:49:04
  a way, it' s a way to follow, as he says Jesucrista
• 1:49:09
  seizes from me. We are simply apprentices of Jesus Christ in his way of
• 1:49:13
  life. He didn' t even bring theology. That we have done afterwards
• 1:49:16
  and is correct, but good is what Saint John showed us above all fourteen
• 1:49:23
  six. I am the way, the truth and the life. Then Christianity
• 1:49:26
  translates these simple concepts of Jesus Christ, because he spoke with clarity for even
• 1:49:32
  the uneducated child, because they translate it into philosophical language and speak of our
• 1:49:38
  philosophy, because of course this anibujo has a philosophy of trust, that of
• 1:49:44
  hope, that of faith, that of love, charity, and mutual help,
• 1:49:46
  for all that I develop. That' s the patristic period that comes
• 1:49:53
  to our day. Of course, when you talk about a kind of allergy
• 1:49:58
  to philosophy, which is also not good grecolatine or to which the mixture of
• 1:50:02
  those terms is pure ignorance. People, perhaps the one who reads and the
• 1:50:08
  day is there, know what they are talking about and those who do not
• 1:50:12
  hear it, because they misunderstand it. No. But, well, that
• 1:50:15
  note is very important, very timely. One of the first parents or followers.
• 1:50:20
  Polycarp of Smyrna, according to the historical records of Irenaeus and Tertullian,
• 1:50:26
  Polycarp of Smyrna, was apparently one of the disciples of John the Apostle.
• 1:50:31
  And, well, there is also mercifully previously Irenaeus of León, Gregory of
• 1:50:36
  Nisa, John Chrysostom and Well, those are the first, basically between the
• 1:50:43
  first century I II. Fundamentally we move on to the 3rd century And it
• 1:50:49
  is still clear here, we already enter into other Eusebius of Caesaria, Tertullian,
• 1:50:57
  Well, already the Great Augustine of Hippo, who is a man who
• 1:51:01
  marked school frame too and the conversion of many of these men we know is
• 1:51:06
  also very dramatic and very much like St Augustine' s call but as holy
• 1:51:12
  as you and as I, no more and no less. But the truth
• 1:51:15
  is interesting because these men who exercised a social influence from the Christianization of the
• 1:51:21
  Empire, an imposing social influence, true, yes, yes, that aside,
• 1:51:30
  because yes, Augustine is already the one who really good of Augustine is
• 1:51:35
  born already in a period where the Church is legally recognized. Before St Augustine,
• 1:51:42
  the Church was considered an illegal religion because it did not worship the Emperor,
• 1:51:48
  it did not burn incense in honour of Rome. They believed that if
• 1:51:54
  one lacked respect to the Emperor, he also annoyed the gods and could come.
• 1:51:58
  The misfortune, which more than one of the most influential was Origen who
• 1:52:02
  even the mother of one of the emperors at the time that the Church was
• 1:52:06
  persecuted, sought counsel from him, sought the teaching. Origins, lived in
• 1:52:13
  Alexandria, which was like the Athens of the time that was in Egypt and
• 1:52:18
  was there there there were a large number of Christians and also Jews, that
• 1:52:24
  there is there born the so- called sectoakhinta, the Greek version of the
• 1:52:31
  old Testament made by Jews, and that the Church then used Christianity precisely because
• 1:52:36
  of its way of being and living. He was very attracted to the attention
• 1:52:41
  of the pagans, although they also despised him, because he was a thriving
• 1:52:48
  movement that grew, aroused envy and suspicion, especially when someone wanted to speak
• 1:52:56
  ill of someone, because they did not know to investigate reality. And there
• 1:52:59
  was talk that Christians participated in the Holy Supper by eating the body of Christ
• 1:53:05
  and drinking its blood and literally taking it and saying that Christians were anthropophages,
• 1:53:11
  that is, cannibals almost and that a series of stories and legends were created
• 1:53:15
  and that the clear people despised Christians, except when the people saw if these
• 1:53:21
  people helped us, because in the church they not only testified. It is
• 1:53:28
  known that the Church of Rome, where Paul was also the apostle Peter and
• 1:53:33
  so many great Christians, she alone kept three thousand poor of the city than
• 1:53:39
  in which no one took care. The Church of Rome. It is known
• 1:53:43
  that there was a square of the foundlings, that is, the unwanted children,
• 1:53:47
  the way they had, apart from abortion, the unwanted ones, were
• 1:53:50
  taken from Java in that square. There was like a kind of tumulus,
• 1:53:56
  a high place and then the one who wanted to go for those children either
• 1:54:01
  adopted them or employed them as slaves when they grew up or as gladiators Christians,
• 1:54:09
  knowing the sad fate of those children exposed there to what might happen to
• 1:54:13
  them. They were picked up to treat them as what they were or what
• 1:54:16
  they had to be worthy people, slaves or wrestlers in the circus. All
• 1:54:23
  that. People saw it as humanity, but it cost time for all time.
• 1:54:26
  But they had that certain prestige of men who loved the world, but
• 1:54:31
  at the same time believed it to have been doctrine. It was dangerous and
• 1:54:35
  tertullian that you mentioned that he is the first Latin theologian, he created what
• 1:54:40
  Hispanic. He was from North Africa, he was and they spoke Latin as
• 1:54:44
  being the language from which Spanish comes, Spanish. Then he was a great
• 1:54:47
  defender of the Christian faith in front of the judges, saying to value things
• 1:54:54
  as they were and disassemble slanders. Bullies didn' t pay much attention to
• 1:55:00
  him, though he didn' t die a martyr. He tried, but
• 1:55:02
  he didn' t. He was a lawyer, but he defended the faith.
• 1:55:05
  That is why it is a book of apologetics or apology quicir defense,
• 1:55:11
  defense Christianity. Yes, it was interesting all that Christian struggle to gain a
• 1:55:15
  worthy place. The one he deserved was not a privilege, just as other
• 1:55:20
  religions were tolerated. They were to be tolerated and left at once the bull
• 1:55:26
  that they were cannibals or that they were going against the State, because it
• 1:55:30
  was believed that, since they did not burn incense in the altars, they
• 1:55:35
  went against the State and I specifically said tertullian. We prayed for the Emperor,
• 1:55:45
  our best way of showing the fidelity of emperors we pray to God for
• 1:55:50
  the good of empire, we pray to God for the peace of the Empire,
• 1:55:56
  and that hurt them that they were unjustly criticized, because Christianity always St
• 1:56:02
  Paul says so in the Letter of the Romans, that we honor the authorities
• 1:56:08
  and those bi- Christianism has always done so. And that' s what
• 1:56:12
  ' s beautiful about this period, the period of the church fathers. It
• 1:56:14
  is how they try to manifest Christianity, which is peace and love in a
• 1:56:21
  hostile society. It took time, but they got it. It is also
• 1:56:28
  interesting to observe and because some magnify ignorance as if this were the vow of
• 1:56:33
  necessary humility, and it is with Tertullian eusebius of Caesarean section of his ecclesiastical
• 1:56:42
  history. Well, there' s such an agustín of origin. Well,
• 1:56:47
  and there the list that adds up and continues even among them there are others
• 1:56:54
  that are authentic apologists intellectuals, but with a colossal intellectual formation. True,
• 1:57:02
  they are. In one of the earliest Christian intellectuals, it is Justino,
• 1:57:13
  Justino, Justino Martís. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, he
• 1:57:15
  was a man who had been moving in the philosophical schools of the time,
• 1:57:21
  the stoic, the ticury and they all read and knew well the aristotelian platoon.
• 1:57:30
  But he came into contact with an old man, a Christian elder,
• 1:57:33
  and did not know at that time that he was a Christian. But they
• 1:57:35
  speak of the soul, they speak of destiny in the afterlife, and what
• 1:57:40
  that man said to him he saw. He agreed that he became interested in
• 1:57:43
  the faith, became a Christian, and not only became a Christian, but
• 1:57:46
  paid with his ruin for his life. From there I could find a way
• 1:57:53
  to save myself and give orchards to sufer by saying no, but I believe,
• 1:57:59
  but to that of respect I could have looked for the tricks to save
• 1:58:02
  the peronol life when they told him to deny the Christian name, which was
• 1:58:08
  the way the judges had to prove that they were Christians, because a true
• 1:58:12
  Christian did not deny his lord went to the Church, but they were not
• 1:58:16
  Christians, because they refused because they were going to attend or because they received
• 1:58:20
  help. The true Christian when faced with that option of release, deaths for
• 1:58:27
  they said if the renegade freedom of my Christ prefers death. And that'
• 1:58:31
  s what Justino did, and then right away he saw a pantheon that in
• 1:58:39
  the faraway would be the tainting of the holster stain, because Justino had already
• 1:58:42
  done it. In Rome he founded a school of philosophy, but Christian philosophy,
• 1:58:45
  what he said before and that at that time philosophy and theology were almost
• 1:58:49
  united, because it had to do with life, the way of life.
• 1:58:54
  Well, I' ll pantenum and then it comes in graciously and then seeing
• 1:58:57
  origins. They were three scholars and at the same time attracted many people who
• 1:59:03
  in the anguish of the world and who did not see an answer in pagan
• 1:59:10
  gods, in polytheism, in those gods that sometimes he who has seen in
• 1:59:15
  that it is seen in film odyssey, for gods who are jealous commit adultery
• 1:59:19
  among themselves, because the truth was that they were not exemplary. And the
• 1:59:23
  Christian god, of course, had nothing to do with it and they were
• 1:59:27
  amazed by that Christian God that they preached but at the same time it is
• 1:59:33
  known that the same gracious one that still persists his very thick books had a
• 1:59:41
  tremendous culture of philosophy, of Aristotle' s platoon. Now, why Christians
• 1:59:44
  in the evangelical world have suspicions or sometimes feel a sort of repulsion or rejection
• 1:59:50
  of philosophy. Because, of course, as in politics there are good politicians,
• 1:59:58
  bad politicians and in theology there are fabulous c and there are other Christians
• 2:00:01
  who are not ashamed to call themselves Christian philosophy. There was what Paul calls
• 2:00:05
  false lanosis philosophy. Paul calls it falsenoses, and Paul says it was these
• 2:00:12
  people, the Greeks themselves criticized them. They were people who made philosophies to
• 2:00:17
  make money, which was to win lawsuits were because philosophy was linked to oratory
• 2:00:23
  and in trials, because the one who had the best oratory at the best
• 2:00:28
  gold peak could win or lose the case of his client. And there were
• 2:00:34
  many philosophers who lived not looking for the truth, but the way to make
• 2:00:39
  the black or white, said to use words or language to transmute or transform
• 2:00:46
  the sense of things. And that' s what Christian critiques and it'
• 2:00:53
  s called philosophy or whatever it is. But the Bible does not condemn true
• 2:00:56
  philosophy, but that false philosophy that they were traveling people who, let us
• 2:01:04
  say, lived selling their knowledge, but the true philosopher did not go around
• 2:01:11
  selling his knowledge. To disguise the lie. They had their schools and people
• 2:01:17
  chose them because they saw in them serious, honest, responsible people. And
• 2:01:23
  so Christians also opened schools and received many students because they saw in them that
• 2:01:29
  seriousness and honesty that Paul says. We can do nothing against the truth,
• 2:01:34
  but with the truth. The Christian has always gone with the truth of the
• 2:01:39
  part and philosophy in his popular senses, love of truth, love of wisdom.
• 2:01:45
  The opposite. That' s right, either I cheat or whatever we
• 2:01:50
  call it, it' s interesting, it' s really recommendable. That
• 2:01:54
  is why you have collegiate and directed a series of patristics in clie and you
• 2:01:59
  have also written some of those works to us. Well, we wanted to
• 2:02:06
  initiate the evangelical reader in this inheritance, because it is an inheritance the books
• 2:02:13
  of the church fathers, and we started with the first ones, who are
• 2:02:16
  called apostolic fathers. The Apostolic Fathers described them this way because they had known
• 2:02:24
  some apostle, for example, you mentioned him to Polycarp, they had known
• 2:02:29
  John. Then they belong to the Apostolic, Apostolic, Apostolic period. Friday
• 2:02:36
  after they are already disciples of these apostles, like this Tullian and as it
• 2:02:42
  is the Itineus himself, he did not know the apostles. Then we have
• 2:02:46
  published to the Apostolic Fathers in a volume also the works of mentioned Irenaeus,
• 2:02:53
  Clement, Alexandria, Origen, Augustine, Tertullian, not all the complete works
• 2:02:59
  are we could draw out hundred and so many volumes. We got what we
• 2:03:05
  first called him the best thing we' ve put in because it' s
• 2:03:12
  the second edition. Thank God it was exhausted, that is, it had
• 2:03:14
  a good reception and we call essential writings. Their essential writings are many more.
• 2:03:21
  It doesn' t mean they' re the best. They are the
• 2:03:24
  most basic or what best introduces us into your thinking. And, well,
• 2:03:31
  I think there is a species today that observes an interest in knowing these men,
• 2:03:40
  because of course it is that if not the Church is seen in a
• 2:03:43
  problem. It seems that the Church begins with us from which, from the
• 2:03:47
  New Testament to the present Church, there has been a vacuum. And that
• 2:03:53
  is not possible, of course, because Jesus Christ, in his resurrection said
• 2:03:58
  I am with you every day until the end of the world and every day
• 2:04:02
  is century II. And so and so, when he says that the Church
• 2:04:06
  is founded on the rock, which is Christ, which is to them the
• 2:04:11
  rock of salvation, says the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
• 2:04:15
  If we think, as there are many evangelicals who believe, that after the
• 2:04:20
  death of the last of the apostles, the Church gave as a sort of
• 2:04:26
  decay and apostasy, then Jesus Christ fails his word. If we believe that
• 2:04:30
  there has been an apostasy until Luther' s time or even us those thousand
• 2:04:38
  years, Christ was not present or was where he was, where is his
• 2:04:42
  word that the gates of hell would not prevail against the rock, for he
• 2:04:46
  was there in that, he was in Clemente, he was in origin,
• 2:04:50
  he was in Tertullian and so many foot believers have written nothing, but they
• 2:04:56
  did something very beautiful. When Rome falls, that is, when the Church
• 2:05:00
  is already affected by the empire, we have all heard of the barbarians of
• 2:05:03
  cara, of the Huns, of the eggs, of the same ones in
• 2:05:09
  Spain that came the Visigoth odolus. Then those people were people used to fighting
• 2:05:14
  and their ideal was the combat and Christianity that made against them for Christianity amazingly
• 2:05:18
  domestic. Yes, great lords, they came the first thing they were to
• 2:05:28
  steal in the churches, because there is the chalice that was used to take
• 2:05:30
  it, the wine of representing the blood of Christ was usually of clear gold
• 2:05:35
  that we were valuable and they killed or plundered. And yet, those men
• 2:05:40
  or women who no longer remember his name, who also died at the hands
• 2:05:44
  of the invasions in the long run conquered that empire and one of the most
• 2:05:48
  violent peoples that Europe suffered were the Vikings or what were called the men of
• 2:05:54
  the North, who were razing came to Spain, well, they arrived to
• 2:05:59
  Seville, when the Guadalquivir Guadalquivir is navigable and in small boat and there was
• 2:06:06
  the Church managed to convert these men, whose gods of Odin, the tor
• 2:06:12
  that make films of this today the round with his hammer that kills a thousand
• 2:06:16
  characters of a blow the Church or those people of that time. I'
• 2:06:21
  m talking about the year eight hundred nine hundred managed to tame these peoples,
• 2:06:28
  which was not easy to us in the twentieth century And until we leave our
• 2:06:31
  habits, even if we become Christians, we still maintain that St Paul calls
• 2:06:38
  the old man, for they fought a very strong old man, because he
• 2:06:45
  was a very accustomed man to war. And Christianity is peace. Christianity is
• 2:06:46
  concord, because all this was achieved by the Church. Not we have been
• 2:06:51
  getting him churches century after century. I have said those examples, which are
• 2:06:56
  the most dramatic, but it happened throughout history. The human being has always
• 2:07:01
  been violent to the idea is today we have a war here on our pigs
• 2:07:05
  and threaten us even with atomic bombs. At that time they were also always
• 2:07:12
  warring and zero before reminds us of the books of cavalry. The cavalry books
• 2:07:15
  were novels, but they were Christian novels. Sometimes we didn' t think
• 2:07:19
  of that, because it was dealing with those soldiers who did what we saw
• 2:07:26
  on television there in Ukraine and other countries, looting, torturing and raping.
• 2:07:32
  And the ideal knight for Don Quixote, that the defense of women, the
• 2:07:39
  defense of the Maiden and the keeping of her word, the not stealing the
• 2:07:44
  contentment of his good deeds, was a way of civilizing those who lived as
• 2:07:50
  mercenaries. And that was also a church product. Then, it is very
• 2:07:56
  nice to think if we follow the word of God we are Christian, but
• 2:08:01
  we have a past and a few brothers, as the Letter to the Hebrews
• 2:08:07
  says, for a cloud of witnesses we can feel very proud of, because
• 2:08:13
  they performed great miracles throughout history, a miracle of conversions. Yes, magnificent
• 2:08:18
  explanation Alfonso to put us in perspective, because I remember, perhaps in a
• 2:08:24
  personal anecdote, when I became, I could read bad at little, because
• 2:08:30
  it was very sick and I went very little to school from eight to twelve
• 2:08:33
  years old, and I began to read the new will and I remember them
• 2:08:37
  and read it, I slowly read it the back had black. And then
• 2:08:45
  I loved myself already when I joined the military at the age of sixteen,
• 2:08:50
  at the age of twenty. I wanted to join the culture late. Okay.
• 2:08:56
  I made a whole process possible until I was twenty- five years old
• 2:09:01
  at the University, which was already a sprint. But I began to read
• 2:09:07
  from everything I read, everything to the Ley, Mars, Lenina, Trowskia,
• 2:09:13
  mause Toon, the authors, Saltrea, all those of the time Kamus,
• 2:09:18
  all of Kiski, obviously, Nix, etcetera, etcetera. But I
• 2:09:24
  began to read the history of Christianity and my faith strengthened the first history of
• 2:09:30
  Christianity. Then I read others. When I read that, I was already
• 2:09:35
  a fervent believer. I thank God, but I was greatly strengthened by knowing
• 2:09:39
  the history of Christianity. He reaffirmed to me to see continuity, as you
• 2:09:45
  have said, from the first century, second, third, fourth, until
• 2:09:50
  the first millennium, then until the Protestant reformation and everything and to see the
• 2:09:54
  variables that have existed in history. I was strengthened and reaffirmed and I said
• 2:09:56
  this church the gates of hell have not prevailed against the church in 2,
• 2:10:05
  000 years. And then you have to know how to interpret the story.
• 2:10:09
  So it' s true. I highly recommend reading to the church parents.
• 2:10:13
  Plus a lot of your thinking. It illustrates us, enriches us time practices
• 2:10:20
  that are some were of faith principles so primary, but so genuine that you
• 2:10:26
  say. Sometimes it is necessary to return some of these things to be more
• 2:10:33
  genuine, more direct, not mediated by so many liturgies and that we Protestants
• 2:10:37
  have also acquired them. Anyway, but the truth is, it' s
• 2:10:43
  very interesting. That' s why the reference to Clie' s books is
• 2:10:46
  very interesting. And we come to the subject of heresies. Well, from
• 2:10:50
  scripturalism, docentism, agnosticism, Montanism and both adoptionism and archaeism. Well,
• 2:11:01
  there are all Nicolaism, Martianism, Modalism, Manichaeism or Donatism, etcetera.
• 2:11:07
  Arianism, especially Arianism, very interesting, because Spain was arian for a time
• 2:11:13
  with the Visigoths in power, who succumbed to Christian culture, because they became.
• 2:11:20
  That' s what you were saying, apolinarism, nestorianism, pelagianism,
• 2:11:26
  the subject that is also very interesting in monophysicism, etcetera, monothelism, etcetera,
• 2:11:33
  etcetera. So there is to give and give, but above all arianism.
• 2:11:39
  Yes, that was a controversy that was very much in battle for a
• 2:11:43
  long time. True, it was a hard battle in many years, because
• 2:11:50
  Christianity proclaims itself as a monotheistic faith, a single God, but at the
• 2:11:58
  same time that this God is a father, a son and a holy spirit,
• 2:12:03
  how that is clarified. The Arians denied the trinity, the Orthodox for
• 2:12:09
  calling it that or the great Church. Most believed without knowing is the explanation
• 2:12:15
  that there is only one God who is the father, but that Jesus Christ
• 2:12:20
  was not only a superior man chosen by the Father, distinguished with a second
• 2:12:26
  God. He was God himself and then the Holy Spirit also admitted. They
• 2:12:31
  recognized him as a personality. It was not an influence, it was a
• 2:12:35
  living being that made the Church gain strength, etcetera. And in those years
• 2:12:41
  that they lacked terminology to get to explain in a way, let' s
• 2:12:48
  say logically the possibility of there being a god and at the same time three
• 2:12:54
  people and not for that being a tritheism three gods that still continues to to
• 2:12:58
  tory. Even in the evangelical world there are churches called Jesus alone, that
• 2:13:05
  is, they do not believe that in the Trinity or sects such as Jehovah
• 2:13:09
  ’ s Witnesses or other groups that deny trinity because they do not fit in
• 2:13:13
  their heads. Well, the Church had to deal with these heresies, not
• 2:13:18
  only the Rianas, but many similar ones, because the subject was difficult and
• 2:13:26
  coming to a description I think simple, but very beautiful, and but they
• 2:13:31
  had to resort to a language that does not appear clear in the Bible.
• 2:13:35
  The Bible mentions the father, son, and holy spirit, but without giving
• 2:13:39
  it terms, Christianity had to resort to Greek terms as substance, essence,
• 2:13:46
  hypostasis, and a person who is one God, but three different persons.
• 2:13:52
  Substance or hypostasis is the same in all three, but there is a distinction,
• 2:13:58
  what is called a dynamic monotheism, that God is communion relations, the
• 2:14:05
  father in general, son, from eternity beginning the son to be has always
• 2:14:09
  been the son and the holy spirit is also sent by both. Then you
• 2:14:16
  have to develop these ideas of hypostasis, of what you call the same essence
• 2:14:22
  homosis. And it wasn' t easy. It wasn' t easy.
• 2:14:26
  Many councils were needed. Today we assume trinity almost by faith rarely a foot
• 2:14:33
  believer in our church. Even pastors can give very correct definitions, because it
• 2:14:39
  is complicated, as I did not study it myself in my pastor, in
• 2:14:43
  whom I was baptized precisely at the age that you became equal to seventeen,
• 2:14:48
  I became converted and at eighteen I was baptized because I had doubts whether to
• 2:14:52
  be baptized into an adult or not. But whatever it was, that man
• 2:14:56
  explained to me. Today I understand it in its trinity ways in a heretical
• 2:15:01
  way, they were as in what is called fashionism. God, father.
• 2:15:05
  It is the God who creates the world, but the God who goes well
• 2:15:09
  to redeem us then becomes a son, becomes flesh and redeems us, that
• 2:15:13
  is, takes the form of the son And as the now risen son lives
• 2:15:18
  within us, the same God lives as a spirit in three ways, in
• 2:15:24
  three ways. That' s wrong. For him he convinced him because he
• 2:15:28
  could not otherwise understand how to respect the oneness of one God. But that
• 2:15:31
  ' s not the real way. We' re not going to clear it
• 2:15:35
  up today. But the idea is this so basic essence, one God in
• 2:15:39
  three different people and that people are not manifestations, they are ways of being,
• 2:15:46
  that shows us in front of that Judaism in an isolated God it costs
• 2:15:54
  us that it does not show that God is community, that that involvement is
• 2:15:58
  very important for human life, that we are God relationship. It is also
• 2:16:03
  a relationship or in front of the Muslim, where it is also what is
• 2:16:09
  called a strict monotheism, Christianity is a dynamic monotheism. Strict monotheism is one
• 2:16:15
  that knows only one will and there is no dynamism in it. In the
• 2:16:20
  Christian case, we believe that our God is a god where there is inner
• 2:16:26
  communion, and that makes many things clear to us. God did not need
• 2:16:31
  man to know what love is, because he loved one another in that personal
• 2:16:35
  variety, which is in him that are mysteries that do not surpass his way
• 2:16:39
  of understanding. This God creates us by pure grace, because he wants to
• 2:16:45
  love us, because he wants to love him, not because he needs our
• 2:16:50
  love, not because he needs our praise, because he, like Jesus on
• 2:16:56
  earth, says he is pleased with the father and in the glory of the
• 2:16:58
  father he always had. God has always lived in a glory, communion,
• 2:17:03
  communication, eternal love among himself. It is the way that theology has to
• 2:17:11
  explain that Christian God, which has nothing to do with these extreme or strict
• 2:17:16
  monotheisms, Judaism or Islamism. Although Judaism was already opening up and speaking in
• 2:17:28
  the book of proverbs of Wisdom, through which God created the world. And
• 2:17:33
  so the Gospel of John says that Christ is wisdom, that is, the
• 2:17:37
  wolf, is the verb by which everything has been created. He was with
• 2:17:41
  God and he was God. In other words, there has been a process
• 2:17:46
  of Christian doctrine. It did not fall from heaven, it was a reflection
• 2:17:52
  or, as I mentioned earlier, it is a process of translation of the
• 2:17:56
  experience of Christ. They experienced Christ not only with a healer, not just
• 2:18:00
  as a messiah. He was the one who did it. Prophecies, not
• 2:18:03
  just as a kind of privileged. God experienced it as something that exceeded them.
• 2:18:11
  And so they gave him the title of the lord, the title given
• 2:18:13
  to Jave in the LORD, in the old Testament, because they believed that
• 2:18:18
  he was in Christ, as he will then say in the Pauline letters and
• 2:18:24
  in him dwells the fullness of deity. They couldn' t explain it any
• 2:18:28
  other way. He wasn' t a man, he was God himself.
• 2:18:31
  And that, of course. It must be translated into a language that sheds
• 2:18:37
  light on the apparent contradictions in which language can resort to explain, to explain
• 2:18:45
  the mystery of God. What an interesting explanation, ladies and gentlemen, and
• 2:18:50
  in such a didactic way for all our listeners in the voice of Alfonso Ropero
• 2:18:58
  and I tell you, obviously, look at the Bible. The new testament
• 2:19:01
  implicitly manifests the deity of Christ and also explicitly, but very implicitly, conclusively,
• 2:19:07
  as John' s theological preamble in his first verses. In the beginning
• 2:19:16
  it was the verb he was and he was condid. The verb was God.
• 2:19:20
  And then also, as Jo' s witnesses have sometimes said, it
• 2:19:22
  was a God no, because the indeterminate article does not exist, that is,
• 2:19:26
  it was a forgery of but many more interesting things. And then he,
• 2:19:31
  that fashionism, has also wanted to fight the otri the ternity and so
• 2:19:35
  many others. But it is true, and there I do see a point,
• 2:19:39
  it is God' s revelation to the believer the believer and we dare
• 2:19:45
  to say it is an authentic revelation, to understand the incomprehensible by the grace
• 2:19:50
  of God, that God is community, father, son and espe three distinct
• 2:19:54
  persons and one true God, as he says, the apostolic creed is a
• 2:19:58
  definition more or less, as approximate as possible. Right. That' s
• 2:20:03
  right and here we have and I want to recommend you look at this and
• 2:20:07
  I have here before me all the books that Alfonso wardrobe has collegiate are published
• 2:20:16
  in clie and directly his own hand, the whole collection of apostolic fathers,
• 2:20:20
  which is sensational. I recommend it entirely from both Justin Martyr and so many
• 2:20:26
  others who appear and the general the first. And then, obviously, there
• 2:20:31
  are also not only books as an introduction to philosophy, philosophy and Christianity.
• 2:20:37
  Speaking of this the apostolic fathers, also stories of monothematics, of origins Augustine
• 2:20:43
  Lipona, Tertullian, John Chrysostom and so many others. Justin Martyr, who
• 2:20:50
  we have talked about, but also martyrs and persecutors is another fantastic book and
• 2:20:56
  one of the last is history of philosophy and theology connivance that has historically existed.
• 2:21:05
  Don' t miss it. You can take one or two of them
• 2:21:11
  as much as you can and have them in your private library. I don
• 2:21:16
  ' t know if you want to make any notes. Alfonso about it.
• 2:21:18
  It' s not right. Good. Yes, well, Alfonso, he
• 2:21:22
  always likes to talk a lot about himself, but I do because the truth
• 2:21:26
  that has illustrated us and blessed us a lot with his writings, because listen
• 2:21:30
  we left him here because we would follow him. But radio time also has
• 2:21:37
  a limit and so does yours. I thank you very much, Alfonso,
• 2:21:41
  for your appearance on the train of life again and we will speak again any
• 2:21:46
  time you have a good time. Thank you, but before you ended up
• 2:21:52
  half lost, not talking about it, but about this booklet, which is
• 2:21:56
  a little booklet that ormes what were born in the fifties, as I count,
• 2:22:00
  and six It has to remember was the catechism that, necessarily in school
• 2:22:05
  from the age of six we had to know by heart. I was little,
• 2:22:09
  but it' s literally I have it because I' m a collector.
• 2:22:13
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we were small and clear it cost
• 2:22:18
  us a lot and besides, it' s nice. There I see it
• 2:22:20
  and at that time I didn' t realize it, but there is Jesus
• 2:22:24
  Christ and underneath children of all colors, there are all blacks here in this
• 2:22:28
  part are two black whites, a cobrizo. It will be beautiful the Christ
• 2:22:31
  who had something to teach to all children. And I mention it more than
• 2:22:35
  anything, because it has been since the sixties, as already of children we
• 2:22:39
  were taught the apostolic creed. We' ve been talking about the church parents
• 2:22:43
  and under it today I understand. At that time I recited it because if
• 2:22:48
  not the Master punished me, because I did not explain, it had to
• 2:22:50
  be memorized. Yes, yes, I create an almighty father uncle, creator
• 2:22:54
  of the earth' s heaven. We believe Jesus Christ, that only son,
• 2:22:58
  our lord and then follow the scripture, I believe in the Holy Spirit
• 2:23:01
  and so on. But of course, this creed is very simple. It
• 2:23:03
  was for the children, but we all remember and have ever been to the
• 2:23:07
  Catholic Church that they also recite after this so simple so that we realize the
• 2:23:13
  evolution, the idea, the trinity, the so- called constantinopolitan Nicene creed,
• 2:23:18
  that is, the creed of Nicaea. If you notice one important thing,
• 2:23:24
  if you see here more or less, in this column, it is
• 2:23:28
  the apostolic creed, let us say the primitive creed and in this column,
• 2:23:33
  which is much broader, it is the creed of Nicaea. And there you
• 2:23:37
  can see that they have already passed between one and another almost three hundred years.
• 2:23:41
  The first says I believe in God the Father the second to clear,
• 2:23:45
  I believe in one God, because there and some accused Christianity that believed among
• 2:23:48
  the gods they are clear, they believe one God father, almighty, creator
• 2:23:54
  of heaven and earth of all things visible and invisible is worth that we have
• 2:23:58
  no doubt. The first creed said because these were cretes, which were recited
• 2:24:03
  to those who were to be baptized. This you baptize in this faith and
• 2:24:07
  they had to recite from memory. That' s why atheism taught him by
• 2:24:11
  heart. It is secret, as if he was a Christian who admitted that,
• 2:24:15
  but they could only explain it to God the Father, for that is
• 2:24:16
  it. Then they make it clear that this God is a God only says
• 2:24:22
  so I believe in Jesus Christ nothing more. But then he adds the creed.
• 2:24:24
  Here is a long sentence, but the way to read, because Julius
• 2:24:28
  also knows it from memory, I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, only
• 2:24:33
  son of God, born of the Father before all the centuries, God,
• 2:24:39
  of God light of light, true God, true begotten, not created of
• 2:24:45
  the same nature of the Father by whom all was made that by us,
• 2:24:50
  men, and by our salvation under heaven that left here are already all theology
• 2:24:56
  and the same in the Holy Spirit, says, I believe in the Holy
• 2:25:00
  Spirit And there they ended already here, does not say. I believe in
• 2:25:03
  the Holy Spirit, Lord and giver of life that comes from the father and
• 2:25:09
  son, that with the father and son receives the same worship and glory and
• 2:25:13
  that spoke by the prophets here And it is very nice to keep in mind
• 2:25:18
  how the logs is a development, it is a process and that sometimes I
• 2:25:22
  myself as young. This I recited because until I was seventeen years old I
• 2:25:26
  became, for until I was fourteen years old, but until I was fourteen
• 2:25:30
  I went to church because I liked the Catholic Church. And this we had
• 2:25:33
  to recite every Sunday and they' re still in the subconscious. But it
• 2:25:37
  ’ s nice to see that process that you can’ t think about,
• 2:25:41
  as already reading the Bible they have plenty for your spiritual life. But to
• 2:25:45
  understand faith in depth we have to study a little bit, not advance on
• 2:25:50
  the subject of theology with people who are able, so that we take advantage
• 2:25:54
  of all the wealth and do not fall into heresies or that flutists who are
• 2:26:01
  saying look. I have here a truth that you don' t know because
• 2:26:03
  your Church has deceived you and I don' t know in groups and estates
• 2:26:07
  what there are. No, then good that we see how the Church has
• 2:26:11
  always had, in every age, has been specifying the terms to the principles
• 2:26:16
  worth with the cred that of children. But now, as Paul says,
• 2:26:20
  there are moments to drink milk, but there is another time, as a
• 2:26:24
  Christian, that we must already eat solid life. He came to all who
• 2:26:28
  I am not gain as Christians, who are already solid people, who are
• 2:26:33
  well fed so that he will do better in life, in everything, in
• 2:26:35
  all his relationships, not only in the mind, but in his way of
• 2:26:37
  treating those around him. That' s how it is, my friend.
• 2:26:43
  Thank you for this point. In addition, a review an example very very
• 2:26:48
  very very graphic, because, for example, in the Creed Niceno is thinking
• 2:26:52
  I good that Athanasius in the fourth century, just already does that he had
• 2:26:58
  tried several times, but unsuccessfully. But finally Tarasius' s thesis is imposed
• 2:27:05
  on claiming the divinity of Jesus Christ. And well, because widespread Christianity had
• 2:27:11
  adopted this heresy, it was not that it minimized the person of Jesus Christ.
• 2:27:18
  So the thing is, it' s interesting, it' s very
• 2:27:22
  interesting. And then see about the creeds, me or the catechism. Yes,
• 2:27:26
  the truth is that there were things that were interesting and now contrasting them
• 2:27:31
  strikes us very much. But well, thank God we have all those writings
• 2:27:35
  that help us, because nothing once again, Alfonso, dear friend, infinite
• 2:27:41
  graces and until the next I send you a hug. Thank you, goodbye
• 2:27:46
  Alfonso Wow. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we' re in a hurry.
• 2:27:58
  But how good to fight Alfonso wardrobe historian and writer, prolific, besides,
• 2:28:05
  very good writer and then doctor also in theology and history. And the
• 2:28:15
  truth is that it places us, gives us those glimpses of history, because
• 2:28:20
  nothing more and nothing less. We have reached the final conclusion. I remind
• 2:28:26
  you that e- mail from the train of life. If you want to
• 2:28:31
  write to me to suggest that I talk about anything, it' s Julio
• 2:28:37
  Pérez Arroba the train of life. Period. It' s Julio Pérez Arroba,
• 2:28:41
  the train of life, point that' s where you can write me
• 2:28:48
  directly and I' ll go forward. We are already practically the week of
• 2:28:52
  the beginning of April, April, May June and the 10th of June the
• 2:28:58
  National Call for Prayer of all the evangelical churches of the country, of the
• 2:29:05
  State in its seventeen autonomies, is called. We are called to pray for
• 2:29:13
  our country, for Spain. We pray for this country. We pray that
• 2:29:16
  God will bless this country. There are some specific proposals and for God to
• 2:29:24
  bless our cities, bless local governments by helping them with wisdom, grace,
• 2:29:30
  there are still open doors and freedom to proclaim Jesus' message and also that
• 2:29:35
  our rulers be practical equity, in democratic equity and also in justice and remember
• 2:29:43
  Saturday, June 10, in different cities. The calls are for marches,
• 2:29:52
  points, and prayer meetings, for there we will be God through the direction
• 2:29:58
  also of his national coordinator, Samuel Vázquez, and we will all be aware.
• 2:30:05
  For today, nothing more and nothing less has spoken to them a good
• 2:30:07
  friend, Julio Pérez. Until the next Chao. Evangelical churches are a place
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  of peace and friendship. You can freely attend the nearest evangelical church in your
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  neighborhood or your population. You' ll be very welcome.