Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / Episode 294 Writing a Book as a Growth Journey with Stacy Ennis

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Episode 294 Writing a Book as a Growth Journey with Stacy Ennis · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

• 0:01
  Intro: Welcome to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. What
• 0:05
  Davina: if
• 0:05
  Intro: you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more? Then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. Devina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams. Now here's Devina.
• 0:49
  Davina: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Wealth to Woman Lawyer podcast. I'm your host, Devina Frederick, and my guest today is Stacy Ennis. Stacy is a bestselling author, book coach, and speaker on a mission to help other leaders clarify their ideas and harness their unique story to make an impact. Her background includes involvement in the creation of more than a hundred books in her fifteen plus years in publishing, ghostwriting for a Nobel Prize winner in medicine, and leading as an executive editor of Sam's Club's Healthy Living Made Simple, a publication that reached more than 11,000,000 readers. Stacy's work and writing have been featured in Yahoo, Inc, Insider, Publishers Weekly, Katie Couric, and on the TEDx stage.
• 1:32
  Stacy is also the host of the podcast Beyond Better and holds a master's in writing and editing from the University of Cincinnati. Please join me in welcoming Stacy Ennis to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. Hi, Stacy. Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast.
• 1:47
  Stacy: Hi, Davina. Thanks so much for having me.
• 1:50
  Davina: I am glad to have you here. So we you and I were talking before the call, and you are in Portugal.
• 1:55
  Stacy: Yeah. It's in the South. It's sunny and beautiful here today.
• 1:59
  Davina: I I know a lot of women lawyers law firm owners have a dream of living and working in another country outside The US. What is your what has been your experience? You've been doing this for a while now.
• 2:13
  Stacy: Yeah. I mean, I started my business in 02/2009. And when I started it, I I had this vision of being able to move my business around the world with me. I didn't know at the time that I was building a location independent business. There that didn't really exist as a term, but that's what I've built.
• 2:32
  Mhmm. And it's pretty incredible to have that freedom to be able to move. Actually, a lot of people have more freedom than they realize to be able to live location independent. But this is our fourth country outside of The US, and I feel like I've grown so much in every different culture that I've lived in. Yeah.
• 2:53
  I just feel like I've I've really gotten to experience the world, which has been incredible.
• 2:59
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. It's a different experience, imagine, than just going on vacation someplace because you're really immersed into the daily living of that culture. But tell us about this business that you have that is an independent location independent business. That's what we're here to talk about today.
• 3:17
  So tell us about that.
• 3:18
  Stacy: Yeah. I'm a book coach, so I help authors on their journey of writing their book. And I I say journey specifically because I do see the book writing process as a journey. I approach it a little bit differently than other people in my in my area. Because a lot of times when people go to write a book, they will come across messaging around getting it done fast.
• 3:41
  Get it done in thirty days or sixty days and get it to market. And they're often taken through a process that is not very fun, not very transformative. And at the end of it, sometimes will come out with a book that they're they're proud of, but not deeply proud of. It is certainly not shelf stable. It's not a sustainability tool for their business.
• 4:05
  Mhmm. And so the work that I do is really centered on book strategy and book coaching. So helping people unearth the messaging, unearth the stories that that really need to be central to how they share their message. And then really embark on a a journey of deep introspection that helps them not only craft a book that will stand the test of time and really help them build their brand or their movement or their business, whatever the thing is that they're looking to build. But we'll also take them on a personal growth journey along the way, which is which is really cool and a really exciting part of what I get to do.
• 4:47
  Davina: That's so interesting. So how long does it usually take for people to working with you to write a book?
• 4:53
  Stacy: When I coach authors, it takes six months. So I have a six month process that I take authors through. We spend about a month to a month and a half on the ideation and outlining process. And for anyone listening that's thinking about writing a book, probably, especially for lawyers, you have a million ideas and they're always just kind of buzzing through your head. And sometimes you just kinda wish you could reach out into the sky and grab them all together and somehow give order to it.
• 5:21
  So the process that I take people through starts with really wide messy ideation And then slowly refines into a really detailed book outline. And then from there we spend about four and a half to five months in the draft, in the draft phase. And I have to say I love working with attorneys because y'all are great writers and you have also honed that skill. So it's a really nice it's a really nice area of practice to come into book writing because you already have a skill of writing. You already have a practice of writing typically through your work.
• 6:01
  Where I see the lawyers that I work with really evolve is through tapping into their authentic voice and really getting to bring some of their unique uniqueness into it. And maybe it's humor. Maybe it's a little bit of sass. Maybe it's energy. May you know, whatever it is.
• 6:21
  So we end up focusing on that a lot in the writing process over the over that six month journey.
• 6:28
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. That's you you talk about, book writing as a growth journey. Tell me a little bit more about how it helps us as a growth journey.
• 6:41
  Stacy: In our everyday lives, we are our attention is pulled outward so much. Right? From the moment we wake up, typically, it's often pulled to our screens. And all day long, we are pulled outward to our family, to our, you know, clients, to whoever it is that that demands our attention. And if it's not there, it's usually on something else.
• 7:02
  It's on something that's pulling our attention. A book requires focus and it requires deep introspection, which requires time and silence. And then from that space, you have to then translate that into something that other people will be impacted by and will be able to use in whatever way you want them to use it, whether it's to be changed by the story or to implement the thing, whatever that is. And if if for nothing else than that, the fact that you are deeply introspective for a long period of time, for sure, that is huge. But the other piece of it that I'd say is so important is that this is a huge life goal for so many people.
• 7:49
  And there is a confidence and a real anchoring in your own expertise and your own value that you have to offer the world that comes about through this process of really author status of stepping into that author status. And stepping into that space of authorhood happens over time. It happens as you start the ideation process and as you write the draft. And I've talked about those six months, certainly have longer after that to get it to market. But there is something that happens through that journey of going through all of these steps and realizing this big huge goal and then arriving at this new place that really does allow you to level up.
• 8:33
  And it's not necessarily I mean, there is, of course, there's outward signs of that, but I think a lot of it really is mindset related and how you show up in your work.
• 8:43
  Davina: Mhmm. That's that's interesting that you say that. I've written two books. And, what amazed me about the process is the first one was a lot more difficult than the second one. And it's it for for me, I realized by the time it was done, by the time it was published, and I was talking about it, and it was out there, I had grown so much beyond that book.
• 9:14
  And I think that's another piece that's kind of interesting when you you write a book is that you it's part of your growth journey as well. And then you sort of go to that next level after you've kind of put that out there. And, and I, and, and it's a little bit like, oh yeah, I read this book. It's, you know, it's out there. Read it.
• 9:37
  It's good. But I'm like over here now. And, but I have to remember that there are people who don't even have the knowledge that I share in that book. And I think that's one of the, that's one of the, illuminating things about writing books too, is that you, with each one, you sort of go you get that out. And now my books were a little bit more of a they're practical guides.
• 10:00
  So a a lot less we were talking about a Rivi Vargas Vargas on the show earlier. She was on the show earlier, she's one of your authors. And her book was a lot of It was about burnout, and it was a lot of exploration of her own experience with burnout, and then how she now coaches people in dealing with burnout. And I think, when you talk about thought leadership, that really comes through in a in a book like hers when she's talking about this really personal experience of how you know? And you get the sense.
• 10:35
  This is a real emotional journey for her and awakening for her. Can you give me some examples of other authors that are attorneys who've written books for you and kind of what sort of topics they tackle? Because I think this is a question a lot of lawyers are asking. Should I write, you know, a book about this area of the law? Should I write it with an eye toward other lawyers as an audience?
• 10:58
  Should I write it with an eye toward, you know, by prospective clients as an audience? What is the approach that you help people take to sort of figure that out?
• 11:08
  Stacy: Well, first of all, I love that you shared your experience because I know that'll be really helpful for listeners who are thinking about writing a book themselves. And certainly there is that element of capturing the book, the right book for right now, but then there's another right book for right now. And, that's what I call a catalyst book. So what I what I'm helping authors think about, how how do I figure out what book to write? Because again, when I'm meeting people, there's usually two sides.
• 11:36
  One is I wanna write a book. I really don't know what I wanna write about, but I know it's a goal and I need to figure out what that's about. Okay. Then the other side is I wanna write a book. Here are my 10 ideas.
• 11:47
  And I think I can fit them all in one book. And here's how I'm thinking about it. And so what we're often trying to find together is first we are defining their vision. So we're starting with, okay, I'm here today and here's my big vision for impact. I only work with impact makers.
• 12:06
  I work with people who are putting good into the world and they have a mission and a message that is beyond the book. The book is a tool for them. Now I'm also deep I have deep respect for books. So I also believe in putting great books out into the world. But the clients that I work with they believe in both.
• 12:28
  They see I wanna write the best book I can write and that I'm proud of. And I know that this book is a tool that's gonna help me achieve my big vision. So if we look at that trajectory, I'm here today and here's my like ten plus year vision of what I wanna do in the world. Sometimes it's really clear. Sometimes it's a little fuzzier, but at least we know what the the mission element usually is.
• 12:52
  We have an idea of that. There's probably, you know, at least two or three books. Maybe for some people there's like five plus books along this line for them that could extend well well into their future. We don't need to know what all those books are. We'll probably get some ideas about them.
• 13:10
  But we just needed to find what is that book for right now that is moving you toward that future vision that you see for yourself. And so we start there. We start with the vision. And then we work through the ideation process that I talked about a little bit earlier. And I also teach them about the different types of book structures.
• 13:33
  So we explore, are you writing a narrative book? Is this really anchored to your personal story? Are you writing more of a prescriptive how to book? Those are very different books. You're it sounds like the one that you wrote is the two that you wrote are more in that category.
• 13:49
  Are you writing a big idea book or maybe kind of a big idea narrative blend? So we're looking at how do these interact? How does your story play big? Or is it an kind of underpinning? Are we bringing in other stories?
• 14:05
  How story heavy is this? So we're starting to explore some of those elements to it. And we answer those questions based on the vision and what you are building from the book. There's a lot to it, of course, but I'd say that that's the core of it. That's where we start.
• 14:23
  Davina: Right. Right. Do you have any, examples of
• 14:27
  Stacy: Oh yes.
• 14:27
  Davina: You. Yeah.
• 14:29
  Stacy: Thank you for teeing that back up. Cause I I, when I took in your I had like all of these layers.
• 14:33
  Davina: Oh, you have all the I know this a lot. I usually ask compound questions too, which are
• 14:38
  Stacy: Yeah. So I think I'll start with, Otto V. Otto V Vargas, is just an amazing human and I think a really lovely example for your listeners to go back and listen to the episode that you did with her.
• 14:52
  Davina: Is read the book.
• 14:54
  Stacy: Yes. Yes. Of course. Of course. Yes.
• 14:56
  Davina: Read the book as well.
• 14:57
  Stacy: But her book's called Your Time to Rise. It just came out recently earlier this year. And I think Adovi is a great example of somebody who had the experience as a coach and the personal experience as a human being. And in her book she was able to bring in her story. And also when you're a coach or you're you're in an area of expertise, it's really important if you are using an you're writing an expert positioning book that is really meant to elevate your position within your industry that you're bringing in those other stories.
• 15:32
  And so she did a really nice job of bringing in examples of clients and painting those those pictures throughout, know, as she's as she wrote the book. And for her, now she's really early still in her launch, but she did a really nice job, I think building behind the scenes. So she built a lot of excitement around the book. Executed every single step. So she was really thoughtful in who she hired as an editor.
• 16:01
  Who she worked with as a publisher. Her cover design. Her cover is beautiful and it fits perfectly with her her brand presence. And the result of all of this is that she was able to really elevate her brand immediately as this and actually even before the book was released because she started including the book on everything. Right?
• 16:22
  As soon as the cover was done. So I think she's a really lovely example. Another example I can think of is a client named Joel Perez. Now he's not an attorney, but he is a DEI consultant. And when we met, he was working on his book to help grow his consulting and coaching practice as as a DEI coach.
• 16:43
  He wrote a a book called Dear White Leader, which is a very disruptive title.
• 16:48
  Davina: Oh, wow.
• 16:49
  Stacy: Yeah. A very brave title, I think, and was very purposeful in purposeful in choosing something that would garnish gain attention. And for him, that book actually, like Adarvi, I didn't say this, but very similarly, Adarvi has already really been on so many stages as a keynote. Joel as well. He has had so many speaking opportunities.
• 17:13
  I feel like every time I talk with him, he's en route to another speaking opportunity or a workshop. He's just really driven the demand for his work. I'll give one more quick example. This is a financial expert. Her name is Giovanna Gonzales.
• 17:31
  And she already had a following on social. So she's a little bit of a different example for that reason. But for her, she was an influencer that really wanted to she she was an influencer, but because she was legitimate. You know, she knew what she was talking about. And she really wanted to build in this other kind of layering to how she showed up in the world and offer really kind of move into this thought leadership space, which she deserved to be in.
• 18:00
  But sometimes with that influencer title, you don't always get the same, I think, credibility maybe in people's eyes. And so she wrote this book that has hit multiple bestseller lists. She's now it's now used in curriculum at the University of Illinois. She four x'd her speaker fee. And she's also grown new revenue streams in her business as a result of that.
• 18:23
  Again, Joel did the same thing. Really good at early marketing. So a lot of people make a mistake of waiting until the book is nearly out. And you start marketing that baby the second you start writing it. Why not?
• 18:37
  Right? It's an opportunity to to start establishing that status.
• 18:41
  Davina: Yeah. I think where a lot of people get scared about that is they say, well, I'm doing this project, but I don't know if I'll finish it, if it will see the light of day. And so I don't wanna put it out there and start talking about it till it's actually a real concrete thing. And I think it takes a certain level of confidence to, to put things out there and say, this is my dream and I'm working on it and making it come true. And, you know, I, I I'll social media has made it.
• 19:10
  So I think a lot more people are sharing those, their journey in the process a lot more than they used to. You know, you we're always seeing people, you know, I bought a house. I'm renovating it. And then they're sharing that whole process with you, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And so I think we start to see that with a lot more authors too as they're they're going out.
• 19:32
  They're putting it out there. They're going, I'm doing this thing, and they're sharing the journey with you as they're doing it. And I think that takes a certain amount of bravery to do that because I also know so many people who have pieces and parts of books that they've had for years that have never made it, which is where I think a good book coach comes in. I had a book coach, with for me with both of my books and a team that helped helped to do the covers and all that kind of stuff. So talk to me about what one of the things I wanna discuss with you is AI, Because I think a lot of lawyers right now are talking about artificial intelligence and how to use them in their practice.
• 20:14
  And one of the big I'm I'm a member of the lawyer community, obviously, but I'm also a member of the copywriter community. I'm a lot I'm in a lot of copywriting groups because I'm a trained copywriter and have a degree in writing. And it the copywriters in the world are looking at going, okay. Well, how do we keep working in the face of AI? I imagine that people who are talking to people about writing a book also are having to think about are are the are the authors going to want to use AI?
• 20:52
  How is that going to impact what we're doing? That kind of thing. Have you had those thoughts? And what have you done about it?
• 21:01
  Stacy: Yeah. I love I love talking about AI because I have a very hopeful viewpoint around AI. I did wanna I'm gonna come back in just a sec. I did wanna just piggyback on what you said about the bravery of sharing. And I think that is a really nice point to make that sometimes when you're in a big big hairy project, feels huge.
• 21:23
  It feels overwhelming. And sometimes you also don't know how to do it. So then announcing that you're doing something can feel maybe foolish sometimes. You're like, I don't really know if I'm gonna get done or how. And I I love your point about coaching.
• 21:39
  I think whether you have a pure accountability person, you have a coach like me, or whatever it is, having that built in accountability makes a huge difference. But also bear in mind that your online community gets to be your accountability, which will drive you to it actually is really motivating when people start asking you about your book. So I would just encourage anybody that's like a little bit of the way in to consider if they'd be willing to announce it because it does drive does like light a fire under you a little bit.
• 22:09
  Davina: There's pressure too. I had, I had someone say to me, you've been talking about this book for years.
• 22:16
  Stacy: Yep. And I was like, yeah, I guess I'm gonna get it done. I do something new. New.
• 22:21
  Davina: Had pieces and parts of books, you know, and, to have that push. I had a coach that, you know, helped sort of push the first one. And it's and it's not, like I said, when you know, once I did the book, I was like, is that the book that I really wanted to write?
• 22:37
  Stacy: I don't
• 22:38
  Davina: know at the time, but that's at the time it was though, when I first started it. And then number of years went by before I got finished with it. And that's, that's, that's where I think the, we talk about the process of getting things done quickly when something occurs to you, because that's where you are now. Whereas if you sort of let it drag on, you're evolving and changing, and then you're going back to that book and trying to finish it. It's harder.
• 23:03
  You're somebody who's been there done that. It's harder because you're like, oh, I'm kind of over this now. You know?
• 23:09
  Stacy: Yeah. And the momentum is hard to re to restart. So I'm glad you added that. That's good. Okay AI.
• 23:17
  So I love to talk about this because I firmly believe that at some point we are going to have a creative renaissance. I don't know when that's gonna happen. But I believe that the work that I do and other practitioners that are at a extremely high level, highly trained, will be hugely valued and hugely in demand. I think our pendulum's gonna have to swing and swing back. That's okay.
• 23:43
  That's just my prediction. Where I get a little worried or a lot worried is that we're missing a training level to get to mastery. So where I see AI as a problem is in critical thinking, in development of craft. And so I worry that our next generation of writers are gonna miss out on some of what I went through to develop mastery in my craft. And mastery quote unquote, I mean we're all in a work in progress but you know Always same thing.
• 24:17
  Don't really like reach mastery I don't think. With my perspective on AI and I actually had my legal contracts redone about a year ago with a little AI clause in there. I do not use generative AI. I will not work with people who use generative AI in their books and that is in my legal agreements. I think that AI is a great tool for as I've heard it the term used as a thought as thoughts.
• 24:52
  What did they say? Sparring partner. A thought sparring partner. And so it's, I think it's a great tool to help you with like your initial layer of research or help you think through a stuck point or, you know, give you a different perspective. Or if you're really stuck on a metaphor, can go in and get some ideas.
• 25:11
  The metaphors are usually pretty bad by the way from AI, but it's a tool. Right. And where I have had to step away from potential industry partnerships or realize that somebody is just not the client for me is when they see it as a replacement for their own critical thinking and their own thought leadership is leadership of thoughts. You have to think. Right.
• 25:40
  To be a thought leader. And so you cannot replace that. There is no shortcut to to reaching that true thought leadership. Now you can look like a thought leader through fancy branding but that's gonna fall flat when you get into a real life scenario where you need to speak about your area of mastery, area of expertise and thought leadership. So I think it's a great tool.
• 26:06
  I think that I don't feel any sense of threat in my specific area because I work with people who value this and who, really wanna put meaningful work into the world. There are tons of people out there who are, you know, following different methods to write their book and a different philosophy than I have about the process. And that's okay. We're all different. We can all do things differently.
• 26:38
  But I think in the niche that I've chosen to focus and you know our our number one criteria when I have somebody that reaches out about their project, the first question I ask is, is this book putting good into the world? That's number one. Has to be a yes. I that necessitates a purposefulness to somebody's whole existence in their work, in their mission. You know?
• 27:06
  So I don't know if that was like a very specific answer, but that's my
• 27:10
  Davina: That was a good answer. And I and I I know that every all all the lawyers up listening to this are sending you little heart emojis right now because of that you got your contracts redone to include AI language. That's something that a lot of people aren't thinking about with, AI, and how does it impact my business, and should I be addressing that in my contract? So that was very interesting to hear you say that. Also, that leads me though to this kind of thought about ghost writers.
• 27:40
  So as someone who has written my own books, be they good or bad, right? And there are people who will, you know, I criticize them, right? I look back on them and I go, oh, you know, I had a terrible proofreader for the first one and mistakes got through, you know, stuff like that. And I'm a different person now, all those things, but I wrote them. And so it always kind of is a little bit offensive to me for people to say, I wrote a book and they didn't write the book.
• 28:11
  Somebody else wrote the book, but it's their story or their words, and that's ghostwriting. And a lot of people do that. So it's a little AI might be a little bit like ghostwriting when we think of the future. And as AI develops more and more and more, we'd have might have more and more people use it as their ghostwriter. Right now, don't think it's there, but I can see a day where it might get there, where you might start having, you know, people like, you know, Donald Trump didn't write the art of the deal.
• 28:42
  Somebody wrote that for him. And, you know, I can see that being, in the future. And for people who are actually writing their own books, it's a really challenging creative endeavor. But I think it's just like with anything else in the industry. There's artistry, and then there's commercialism.
• 29:04
  So a lot of it depends on what your goals are, like you said, what your vision is, what your goals are, what you're planning on, what you want to put out in the world. And that's, you get to choose who you work with in that regard. But I see it a lot like you might have an AI ghostwriter in the future. There might be somebody something to that level that can come around.
• 29:29
  Stacy: Yeah. I I think that we will, arrive there, and I'm curious to see the market response to that. If you know, I think that I feel it when I get a right now an AI generated pitch or something like that. I will say and it's it's funny. It's it's it's funny to me a little bit to share this because knowing your opinion on ghostwriters, but I spent a good chunk of my career as a ghostwriter.
• 29:55
  Being in my career I've
• 29:57
  Davina: been a ghostwriter. Let me just say that. I did a ghostwriter. So Not as an not as an author, but not as a not for books, but for articles and thought pieces and stuff like that. Yeah.
• 30:07
  Stacy: So Yeah. And it's interesting because I I think it depends on the kind of, like the approach of the ghost writer too. When I because I've I've personally either authored, co authored, or ghost written 18 books. And the ones that I've strictly ghost written, There is still a real depth of the approach with those. I mean, would travel either most of the time I would travel to them.
• 30:37
  Sometimes they would travel to me. We would spend a whole week together, morning to night. We would whiteboard. We would I mean, it was a real, really collaborative and deep process. And so and so for an example, I worked with a Nobel Prize winner in medicine for four years as his ghostwriter.
• 31:00
  And also his business partner who was a naturopath. It would never make sense for a Nobel Prize winner to learn how to write a book. That was my life's quest was to become a really wonderful writer and to master that skill. His was to isolate nitric oxide and win the Nobel Prize for that. So I think that there's it depends.
• 31:25
  Like, there's times where you can marry two life like, you've spent your whole lives developing these skills and bringing them together creates something really incredible that neither of you could have created on your own. I would imagine that Becoming, Michelle Obama's book, probably had a ghostwriter involved in that. Beautifully written book. So I think that there's there's some nuance there where I struggle. It's like the same.
• 31:56
  I feel like I'm like tooting the same horn. There is the ghost writer that comes in and just like edits the transcripts and gets the book out to market. And it's just not a good book. Or there's the approach where it's like an artistry to it and there's collaboration and there's you're developing frameworks together or, you know, it's and it can be really beautiful and really exciting. And those are very different creative experiences and creative product at the end as well.
• 32:24
  Davina: And so I think that for for AI that puts out the question. Let's just put it this way. There are nurses who are protesting because now there are robo nurses that are collecting data, checking on vitals. I guess I don't really know how a robo nurse works, but we have human nurses who are saying, this is a problem. We don't want robo nurses because that's, it's not the same thing as having a human.
• 32:52
  Yeah. But you can very easily, I mean, picture a movie on the topic of having robo nurses to the point that they are like, you know, replacing, their androids or whatever. They're replacing nurses. So you wonder then if, if AI can evolve to such a point that it can participate as a collaborative partner on that level of creativity. You know?
• 33:21
  Yeah. It's just a, it's just a thought for the future, like out there, I mean, because we do have, we do have people who, you know, hire other people to write, help them write their books or write their books for them entirely. Yeah. And so it there is a place, but I don't we're nowhere near that at this point. I don't think anybody needs to be scared of that right now, but I can envision, you know, maybe ten years from now.
• 33:43
  I mean, that's that's the thing. Who knows? Right? It is
• 33:46
  Stacy: interesting. It's really interesting to consider. And it's also interesting for me to consider what couldn't it do better. I mean, with the example of the the nurses, there I I believe there are aspects of medicine that I would prefer AI support. Like I would rather have a really well trained AI than a doctor that's not paying attention to me and dismissing my symptoms and doesn't give me anything useful.
• 34:11
  You know, which is a lot of female experience in the medical office and has been, you know, as a parent with a child who has a lot of health issues and spent four years traveling around to different doctors. Like it probably would have been better for me to go to an to an AI doctor in that situation and gotten faster answers. So I'm sure there are things in my industry as well that maybe we can improve, like research, for example, or fact checking. Or maybe in the future, there are some areas that we can really grow and that will push us to be better at what we do. I hope that's true.
• 34:50
  I hope that there are some of those things ahead.
• 34:52
  Davina: That's really the piece that I think is so interesting is that how does AI challenge us to be better? And to be able to differentiate and say, well, are still you still need humans. You still need it for what? And really thinking about what that is and what that looks like. And you you're you were talking about, you know, seeing an AI nurse and thinking, well, maybe that is.
• 35:24
  Think about how much I mean, I was around before there was a Google, and so you couldn't just Google your symptoms. You there was no WebMD. You couldn't go in and look up your symptoms and think about how that has changed the doctor patient experience. When I look at my parents who are in their eighties, doctors are still if you're wearing the white coat, what you say is sacrosanct. It's it's, you know, doesn't matter if it's wrong.
• 35:52
  And it is in a lot of cases now because their doctors are their age. And versus, you know, Google, doctor Google. My sister and I joke because anytime we're talking about any sort of ailment, both of us, while we're texting each other, we're googling. Right? And now we're gonna be getting AI answers.
• 36:10
  Right? So it's already, like, infiltrating every part of our our work. And I think writing is a place where a lot of lawyers are telling me, oh, I'm using AI for my writing, for my marketing, for their marketing, you know, campaigns. They're using AI. They're not going to copywriters.
• 36:32
  And I think part of that is they don't understand the difference. They don't understand, when you're talking content writing versus sales copywriting, right, is two very different things. And people who are trained copywriters know there's a huge difference in being able to write copy that will make you a lot of money versus write something that sounds good. Right? It's two very different things.
• 36:59
  So I think there's a, with with books, with any kind of writing, there's some education that has to be done with an audience. Or like you said, just having an audience that just attracting people that already have a shared value with you in terms of what it is that you're doing for for them, for their work, putting it out there. Because I could see that I can see we're gonna be seeing people write a book, and it will be something that they've generated from used AI and then gone in and just it up a little bit. You know? I definitely see that out there.
• 37:32
  Stacy: Oh, 100%. Yes. Yes. Unfortunately.
• 37:35
  Davina: Yeah. So, before we end, give me some idea of what the why why should people consider taking action on that thought of writing a book? And in particular, this audience is made up of women law firm owners. So a lot of them may be looking at it in terms of their law firm business. What can it do?
• 38:01
  What is the return on my investment to write a book that would help me grow my business?
• 38:09
  Stacy: I always love the question of ROI because it's really what a lot of people want to know, right? Like I'm going to not only invest money into this process because certainly there are expenses if you self or hybrid publish. Even if you don't, you still likely are gonna hire a coach of some kind or invest in a program or there's gonna be some investment. But your time and your energy are hugely valuable especially as a lawyer. You that that takes away from the time that you can put into your business or work with clients.
• 38:39
  So it's a really important question to ask before you embark on any project, but certainly on a book project. I know we've already talked about some of the internal benefits. Right? That process of personal growth and really kind of stepping into your next level. I also just wanna touch back on that mindset piece because there is a huge piece of that writing process that does help you emerge into or grow into a new mindset that is going to 100 support your business growth.
• 39:15
  It just really does help you level up and change you in such a profound way. But the other part of this is really opening up new opportunities. So some ways that that can take place is, for example, if you have a specific framework that you use to work with people, a lot of times people do have a framework. They just don't know they have a framework yet. And so as we go through this process of organizing their book, we are often pulling together their unique process and we're putting it into something that's really simple and really clear that then becomes their unique framework that they use for all of their work.
• 39:56
  And it becomes then this kind of like, it's like their foundation for everything else. And it just brings so much more clarity to their business. It also can open up other opportunities such as revenue streams that may be more scalable than one to one work, for example. Open up speaking opportunities, whether that's paid keynote opportunities or paid corporate workshops, or perhaps getting you speaking ops that maybe don't pay but are huge client lead generators. So opening, having that book is really your ticket to be able to pitch some of those really big opportunities.
• 40:33
  It's also a really nice kind of in to, to have this author status to connect with other people. It's a great way to reach out to a potential lead without selling them. So just reaching out and saying, Hey, I would love to send you a copy of my book. If you send me your mailing address, I'll put it in the mail for you. Those are really easy ways that you can pretty low cost because books to print a book, it's usually around $3 to $4 and then there's mail.
• 41:04
  You can do, media mail shipping. So it's pretty inexpensive to print and mail a book. And if you have a potential really high quality lead, that's a really nice way to just get you in front of them. You're now on their shelf. It's also a huge marketing attention opportunity.
• 41:21
  So a book launch has so much to it. It's it's long, if you do it well. And if you decide to hire PR as part of that process, it opens you up to media, which will hopefully and usually send traffic your way for a really long time. So some of if you have a nice media hit or you know Devina we're doing this interview I'm not on here because I just wrote a book but this interview that we're doing will probably send people my direction for a long time. And it would be the other way around if you're on my podcast.
• 41:53
  So there's this there's this kind of planting of seeds all over the place that will get those eyes back on your brand and create a lot of sustainability. And then lastly, I'd say you have a lot of opportunities for mini launches for your book. So a lot of times people will launch their book and they're like, that was my one opportunity to get attention. Well, a lot of my clients now will stagger their audiobook release by about six months or so. So they'll have another launch opportunity.
• 42:24
  And then maybe let's say their book gets chosen for an awards. They have another opportunity. For me, my last book, we had our book in airports across The US about a year after it came out. So that was another, you know, attention opportunity. So it does create a lot of opportunities for you.
• 42:44
  Plus, it's like a content, just magic trove of goodness that you can pull from quotes, stories, excerpts, and use on social media forever.
• 42:56
  Davina: Right. Right. Right. One last question about I wanna ask about publishing. Do you help your authors sort of figure out what their avenue is going to be for publishing?
• 43:09
  Is it gonna be self published? Is it gonna be you mentioned hybrid. Are they gonna try to seek a publisher? Do you help with that process as well or give them some guidance in that?
• 43:20
  Stacy: In the process that I take authors through, we focus. We really focus on the writing process in the first draft. But I provide them with education and support. And for my my clients, I also have a lot of partners that I've made over the last fifteen years of being in business that I will directly connect them to for publishing. People that I trust that I've worked with in the past.
• 43:43
  Most of my clients end up sell for hybrid publishing. The main reason for this without this would be like a whole other episode if we wanted to dive deep. But the traditional publishing route is a really long route. And so if you wanna go that route, you're looking at probably three years to market if your book gets selected and it's on like a typical timeframe. You know, two to three years, but it's going to edge maybe on that upward end.
• 44:10
  If you're, if you are self or hybrid publishing eighteen months is the timeframe that I usually recommend, but you can tighten that up to twelve months with if you're very if you have good momentum without sacrificing quality. So there's that's a lot more attractive for people that are looking to use the business in the more immediate in the more immediate term. I don't, I'm not like a publishing coach per se, but I advise my clients as they're going through. So as an example, all of my private coaching clients, I stay with them as they're, we finish our coaching, but we stay in what I call a mentorship. So as they're going through their publishing journey, I'm giving them title feedback.
• 44:53
  We're looking at the cover together. We're discussing PR options. I'm getting on calls with them often. So I am that seasoned expert that comes in and helps them make decisions along the way. Never in a legal capacity, though.
• 45:06
  Always refer to attorneys for that decision. Yeah. I'm very clear about that.
• 45:11
  Davina: Absolutely. It's so important to be clear about what your boundaries are. I find that with coaching with coaching as well. I'm like, I'm not a therapist. Yes.
• 45:19
  I'm a coach. I'm a business coach. Thank you so much for being here, Stacy. Tell us what how how can we get in touch with you if we need to get in touch with you and and maybe sign up for your program.
• 45:31
  Stacy: Yeah. So I'm at StacyEnnis.com. And on that on my site, I have information about my private coaching and also my group coaching program Idea to Draft, which is a six month program. And I'm also really active on Instagram. I post more about Portugal location independence on on Instagram and also on LinkedIn where I share more of my book writing advice and, get to share conversations that I have with people in the industry.
• 45:56
  And anybody that listens to this, please let me know that you heard me through this conversation with Divina. Sure to, take great care of you knowing you came. Well, I would anyway, but certainly I'll get, like, a little extra love coming from Divina.
• 46:10
  Davina: Great. Thank you so much. I know my audience appreciates a little extra love, so we appreciate it. Thank you so much for being here. I've really enjoyed our conversation today.
• 46:19
  Stacy: Thanks, Davina. I appreciate you having me.
• 46:22
  Intro: If you're ready to create more of what you truly desire in your business and your life, then you'll want to visit us at wealthywealthywomanlawyer.com to learn more about how we help our clients create wealth generating law firms with ease.