Latest / Todd's World / Sodom & Gomorrah: The Story They Didn’t Tell You in Sunday School | Genesis 19
Transcript
- Todd: we're gonna talk about Sodom and Gamor today, which I know sounds fabulously cheerful. But it it'll be alright. Yo, it's Carrie: Whoa. Todd: It's a good story, actually. It's a real good story. There's lot going on. So in fact, I Yo, it's Carrie: There's a lot going on. I can't wait. I can't Todd: I believe people are gonna find out there's way more going on than they thought was going on, and they thought they knew the story. So Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, you know what? I'm going in blind. I'm going in Todd: Yeah, I think you're gonna be like I think there's gonna be some things in the story that you're gonna like, hmm, that's interesting. Not sure I remember that from Sunday school. Yo, it's Carrie: Whoa. No. I we should be doing shots with Jesus tonight, and I think I need Todd: You weren't ready, were ya? You didn't know. Yo, it's Carrie: a shower. Whoa. Todd: I told you I thought there were some things in this story that perhaps didn't make it through to everybody's general understanding of it. Welcome everyone to Beers with Jesus. I'm Todd. It's Todd's World. Carrie's here. My my always co-host Carrie. Yo, it's Carrie: Cheers. Todd: How's it going? We got Beers with Jesus tonight. I got my typical Budweiser. Yo, it's Carrie: Cheers. Cheers. Got your bud fat? Todd: Bud fat, Bud Heavy. What are you drinking? Corona? Yo, it's Carrie: Bud heavy. I've got a Corona premiere. Todd: Corona Premier. You know I started did I tell you that? I started drinking that Yingling flight, that low carb. That was pretty good. I've gotten to like that a lot, yeah. It is good. I probably will switch back. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. You like it? It's so good. I like it too. It's got a little Todd: I went back and I got a case of bud for this last one and I thought, meh, it's good, but I kinda like the flight. Yo, it's Carrie: I like that there's seems like a little citrusy and I just I love any berry with a little citrus that's why I like this. I throw some lime in there, it's good. Todd: It's those card low card beers are like the quintessential rogue pops. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Road Now we call them roadie pops, which actually I didn't I didn't do that. Yeah. But Todd: Same idea, right? Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: like I didn't actually drink in the car. Did you drink in the car? When you were younger? Todd: When? Tonight? Yo, it's Carrie: No. Hopefully you've matured out of that. Todd: I feel like I feel like I should not answer. This is not a line Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: of questioning that we should go down. Yo, it's Carrie: Forgive me, forgive me. Todd: Gotta remember my best Yo, it's Carrie: That's funny. Todd: friend is a retired state trooper, and I've spent a lot of my life riding around with him and that's like Yo, it's Carrie: Catcha. Todd: a get out of jail free card. Yo, it's Carrie: I see, I see. Yeah, that's funny. So it was a joke among my girls my girlfriends and we if we took a beer into the shower or a drink into the shower, we called it a roadie pop. Todd: I don't think I've I don't think I've dri I've driven over the influence in a long, long time. But to be fair, I'm a big guy. It takes a lot for me to get over the influence, you know? So like under the influence, I mean like over the limit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think so. For me it takes a lot to get there. Inflow over the influence, sorry. It's been a day, guys. You gotta stick with me. Yo, it's Carrie: Over over the influ over the over the lies, over the limit. Like that. Over the influence. Yeah. It has been such a day, so we're exhausted. I'm gonna be taking a nap. I'm taking a nap after this because I'm going on a I'm going on Todd: On air. Live on air, Gary's gonna take a nap. Yo, it's Carrie: just rest. No, I'm actually g going on the late night adventure tonight. Todd: that's exciting. Well Yo, it's Carrie: the son of a friend of mine's turning twenty one and we're taking him at midnight to have a drink at at the bar. Then w then Todd: jeez. You guys are hardcore. I'm not that hardcore. Yo, it's Carrie: we're going right back to bed. Like we're not staying out late or anything, but Todd: Lauren's turn of twenty-one November five. And Yo, it's Carrie: Ooh. Todd: her big twenty-one B Day party is November seventh, which is a big gig that she's having at a place in Grand Haven and Yo, it's Carrie: Fun. Todd: she's having a bunch of people and it'll be fun. So my singer Yo, it's Carrie: That's cool. Nice. Todd: songwriter daughter Lauren Allen music. Lauren is with a Y, by the way. But you should check her out. She's pretty amazing. So you know what happened? Yo, it's Carrie: Amazing. Tell me. Todd: Last night we're gonna talk about Sodom and Gamor today, which I know sounds fabulously cheerful. But it it'll be alright. Yo, it's Carrie: Whoa. Todd: It's a good story, actually. It's a real good story. There's lot going on. So in fact, I Yo, it's Carrie: There's a lot going on. I can't wait. I can't Todd: I believe people are gonna find out there's way more going on than they thought was going on, and they thought they knew the story. So Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, you know what? I'm going in blind. I'm going in Todd: Yeah, I think you're gonna be like I think there's gonna be some things in the story that you're gonna like, hmm, that's interesting. Not sure I remember that from Sunday school. Yo, it's Carrie: I'm like I was gonna say, was this like censored? Was this like edited for content when we Todd: I think. We'll see. Yo, it's Carrie: were young? I yeah, I can't wait to hear. I'm I'm going in blind, I'm like a woman on the street. But you were saying Todd: Well listen, this something happened just yester yesterday. Everybody Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: knows that I listen to well I don't know if everybody knows this, but I I reference it frequently. I may reference it probably more on news. We also do the Wildly Opinion News Hour, and that dropped yesterday, by the way. A Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Rollicking two hours and fifty minutes. Yo, it's Carrie: Cash, are you serious? Todd: I am too tired to edit any of it, so y'all are getting all of it. An incident. I don't remember either. I mean I'll see if there's some tech stuff, but I know. listen to it if Yo, it's Carrie: no, and I think I had like a didn't I have an incident or something? I can't remember. I don't know. There was something. No editing, but whoa. Two hours and fifteen bonus. Todd: you haven't. It's a fabulous show. We go through clips of the news of the day. this week if I'm going I'm going by memory because Yo, it's Carrie: Free. Todd: I haven't stuck it out yet. It's going out tonight, so it drops tomorrow, which is Tuesday, and then Bears with Jesus we're recording tonight, which and Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: then it drops on Wednesdays. But we drop Bears with Jesus every week. Wildly Opinion Day News Hour we do every other week. Also check out Todd'sworld.net. I've got all my books there. Series that are fabulous. Insurrection. Yo, it's Carrie: The witness. Todd: witness. Nine mile point. Leaves the blue ways my memoir. It's great memoir. It's fun. Yo, it's Carrie: The memoir is so good. Todd: So I feel like I'm missing something, but anyway, in the in that realm, maybe not. I've got another one that I'm working on that's coming up. Yo, it's Carrie: Merch and Yeah. Okay. Todd: Tentatively titled Beaten by the Storm. The story? Never mind. Yo, it's Carrie: Later teaser later. Todd: Gonna make a wildly opinionated Cornell 7 joke. Anyway, Yo, it's Carrie: no don't no. Todd: we explored it all on wildly opinionated news hours. So go go listen to it after this. But what I was gonna say is I listen to Steve Day's show. Steve Day's a nationally syndicated show Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: on the Blaze Network. And pretty I mean he he's also a guest on you know Fox News, he's a guest on Clay and Buck, whatever. You probably recognize him when see him. I really enjoy the Steve Day show, it has become in the years since Rush passed, my probably regular listen. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: I listen to other things too, but the but the one that like I don't miss much of is the Steve Day show. I happen to like it. It's got good political analysis. it also mixes up the political and the Christian just like we do, which I like. And it Yo, it's Carrie: It's interesting. Todd: I mean listen. I don't agree with him on everything, but I don't agree with anybody on everything because we're not the same people. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Right. Todd: So, but I enjoy the show. I think I think I think so anyway, they have a segment on there, with the a couple different segments, where you can submit questions, whatever, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: One of their segments, the last one was a week or two ago and it was a buy seller hold, and I I submitted when it got on the show and and whatever. Remember that? Well, I just did an I just did another one yesterday. It Yo, it's Carrie: yes, yes. They read your they read your comment. Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: was an ask me anything, or ask Steve, not me. It's his show. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Ask Steve anything Monday or whatever. So you're kind of wide open on what you can ask. So here's the clip. It's gonna say Todd's World, it's gonna give you my question, and it's gonna give give you their answer. And I thought this would be kind of fun. We could play the clip, we can talk about it little bit, and then we can Yo, it's Carrie: Cool. Love it. Todd: talk about God blessing Sodom and Gomorrah the kingdom come. Everybody wins. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Look out. Duck. Heads up. Todd: Don't turn around. Keep running. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. Todd: Things get a bit salty. Okay. here is we're gonna so we're gonna share this. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: we do this we ni we rarely ever do this on news. We are on beers. We don't I can't even keep track. We barely ever do this on on Beers with Jesus. We just go through stories Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: of the Bible. That's what we do on here. On on the Wildly PNA news hour, we play clips and things. But this Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: my question was specifically focused on Jesus, and it's very much a beers with Jesus kind of question. And so Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that's why that's why we're we're gonna play it now. So here is the Steve Dace show. This is Steve Dace, Aaron McIntyre I think is his his programming whatever. Guy, the one that we don't have who runs things and makes things work. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd, you are so talented, just juggling all of the jobs. I just sit here Todd: And he also has another co-host named Todd, Todd Urzin. Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Todd: And Todd Urzin's your quintessential like he's like the old guy in a lawn chair just yelling at cars all the time. And I just love it. There's something about that Yo, it's Carrie: boy. Okay. Todd: personality that I just love. Like he's a big contrarian and it works with me. So anyway, let's Yo, it's Carrie: my gosh, that's really funny. Okay. Todd: play the clip and hear my here my question. Here you go. Here's the Steve Day show. Amen, brother. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, hundred percent. Yo, it's Carrie: Is that a good answer, Todd? Todd: okay, that's it. Alright. What'd you think, Carrie? Do you think they do you think they answered it? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Well, I think that I think that's really cool that I think so. I mean it's a Todd: What'd you feel like? Yo, it's Carrie: it's a c yeah, I mean it's a concept we've talked about a little bit and I I'm sorry, I already forgot the word that he used. but the the fully fully hypostatic, thank you. Fully God, fully Todd: Hypostatic I thought God that's a Yo, it's Carrie: human. Todd: That's a freaking ten dollar word right there. I thought kerfuffle was something. Yo, it's Carrie: It is, right? Todd: It comes out with hypostatic Yo, it's Carrie: I feel like I'm a spelling be can you use it in a sentence? But I think it Todd: But did you think Yo, it's Carrie: was good. Yeah, I mean I think again, this is one of those I mean the the concept of of him being hypostatic is just it's something that's hard for us to wrap our brain around. Todd: What the Yo, it's Carrie: it's it's kind of like it it's like the the Trinity. It's like saying you've got three three persons who are also one. It it's it's like the same thing to me. Todd: Okay. But did but did you think I mean what was his answer? Was his answer yes? Of course Jesus asked questions he didn't know the answer to. Was that kind of what he I felt like that was where he was getting it. Yo, it's Carrie: I think so. I think he was saying that yes, he was capable you're right, he didn't. He he Todd: He didn't actually say that, but Yo, it's Carrie: chose to he chose to describe the the Todd: But I think that's where he was going. Yo, it's Carrie: state. Yeah, I think so. It makes sense. Makes sense that Todd: what about what'd you think about what Todd Erzin said at the end? I was a little bit that one was a harder one for me to wrap my head around a little bit, to be honest. Yo, it's Carrie: You know what? I zoned. I was kinda looking at everything on his shelf. I was so it wasn't following like he's in he's Todd: Carrie was fiddling with her lamps. What? Well, he was talking about how it was like Yo, it's Carrie: He had like a Monopoly game and a Green Lantern and I was try Nefarious movie poster. Sorry, I just was like, I don't know what all that is. Okay. Cause I wasn't following him. He did d what what I missed? Did I miss something brilliant? Todd: Yeah. He was saying how important it I don't really know if when I first heard it I thought I'm not entirely sure what he's talking about. When I listened to brilliant Yo, it's Carrie: Not all tots could be brilliant. Todd: Well no, it's not that he's not I think he's pretty smart. I just I wasn't exactly sure where he was trying to go. But you know, it's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: in a quick kinda answer thing. So I think I listened to it a second time and I thought what maybe what he's trying to say, I think maybe he was focusing a little bit more on the the part where it says who touched me when I said like who touched me and so I Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah. Todd: think what he was saying is that that Jesus emptying of himself of his divinity Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: gives the opportunity to us to to to to be saved by him. I I'm I'm not entirely sure exactly what he Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: was saying or to to express our faith Which I guess Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: y I guess you could say, like, take the woman that that that question comes from Jesus is is walking through a crowd. He has he has gosh, I can't remember the guy's name right now. But anyway, Jarius, Jarius's daughter's sick, right? She's sick and she's gonna die. And Jarius is like, You gotta you gotta come heal her. Yep. Yo, it's Carrie: right. He's yeah, he's he's pled with him to come and save her. Mm-hmm. Todd: Jesus is walking along and some chick who's had this the bleeding issue for like eighteen years crawls through the crowd, she touches Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: the hem of Jesus' robe And she's healed. And Jesus Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: says, feeling the power going out of him, turns around, stops in the middle of the road, and he's like, Who touched me? And his Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: disciples are like, Dude, you're surrounded by a massive crowd of people. What do you mean, who touched you? And Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Right. Did did they understand the reference? I got the impression that they knew exactly what you were talking about. Okay. Okay. Okay. Todd: I would assume so. It's pr it's pretty pop I mean yeah it's pretty it's pretty famous. So and then Jesus spends what appears to be a fair amount of time because Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: it's enough time that Jarius's daughter dies in the process. Remember? Or Yo, it's Carrie: Right. yeah. Todd: or or apparently dies. And Jesus is like trying to figure out in the crowd who touched him. And so Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: what I wondered and what I thought maybe Todderson was talking about was that that gave that woman the opportunity to express her faith, to kind of testify about her faith to Jesus, which enables and and this was this is a different story, but enables her to kind of surprise God with her faith, if that makes sense. We've we see that over Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: and over in the gospels where Jesus is is surprised by people's faith. He wouldn't be Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: able to be surprised if pe if he never asked You know what I mean? We've talked about it. I think of course Jesus Yo, it's Carrie: Right. If if he knew everything. If he was in his fully divine state and knew everything, he wouldn't be he wouldn't feel as much of a need to interact with the followers. Okay. Todd: Yeah. But I don't think I don't think that if you lined up Steve Dace's audience and all the Christians out there, I Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: think a lot of them don't think that. And I base that on the fact that I Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: can't tell you how many sermons I've heard since I Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: was a wee lad thousands of times where Yo, it's Carrie: A wee lad, yes. Todd: people We're pat were preachers or whatever would get up and they'd be talking about a story in the Bible and they would immediately say, Well, I mean, Jesus asked who this is, but of course we know Jesus knew. And they immediately just got the story. And I think, that's crazy. What are you talking about? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Like is it i if is he just doing it for show for everyone around around them? Right. That just doesn't it doesn't seem consistent with him. That's interesting. Hmm. Todd: Is it charades? I mean, what's it what's going on? I don't buy that. So I think that somehow in the hypostatic union with God, that that the way I Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: would describe it somehow Jesus empties himself, pulls a kind kind of pulls a veil over his divinity to live in his humanity. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: But he can at times access his divinity when he wants to. And that's when you see him making prophetic predictions and Maybe healing, I mean, but but then you Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: there's a lot of people who say but what Jesus did, we should be able to do when it comes to healing. Look at Peter did, Paul did. Jesus said you're gonna do greater things than this. So Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that Jesus was functioning through the power of God and through the Holy Spirit, like maybe a fully integrated spiritual human could. Does that make sense? So Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Todd: anyway, that's what I think. Yo, it's Carrie: Well, it was it's a great Todd: So Yo, it's Carrie: question, I think, especially like you said, these you know, so many Christians who don't look at it that way, but don't you think they just don't look at it that way because they haven't really thought about one of those kind of crossover moments, those those revealing Todd: Could be. Yo, it's Carrie: moments. I mean, it's like, yeah, Jesus God, He knows everything and and they just kind of go on. They just haven't really thought about Todd: Well, mean hell. A lot of life comes down to intelligence. So that's not just because Yo, it's Carrie: Wow. Todd: you're a Christian doesn't necessarily. Anyway. Yo, it's Carrie: Just 'cause your name is Todd, it doesn't mean Todd: No, I think he got it. I I think he got it. I just think that it was kind of short and I he wasn't he didn't quite fully develop where he was going. I'm not positive where he was going. I just Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I I think that's where he was going and and I think he was right. I don't disagree with him. But anyway, if you don't listen to Steve Day's show, you should. I find him very entertaining. I listen Yo, it's Carrie: How often is he on? Todd: three or four times a week, maybe from like noon Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Todd: to two on The Blaze. Now I don't listen to him on The Blaze. I listen to him on I you have to pay for the Blaze. He's on his he live Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Do you have to pay for the blaze? Yeah, not doing that. Todd: streams the show on X all the time. So I actually listen on X most of the time. But Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: if for some reason it's later in the day and it's like three, he also drops the full podcast on Apple iTunes and Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Todd: I think he still leaves like an overtime for the Blaze, you know, because they're trying to get people to obviously to subscribe. But you get Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: most like two hours, hour and a half, two hours of it. And you can get it on YouTube, you can get it on Rumble, you get it i it it all drops. So yeah, anyway. He's Yo, it's Carrie: Interesting. How old do you think he is? How old is Steve Dace? Todd: you're too older than me. Yeah. I think maybe fifty three. I think I'm fifty one, so something like that. You know, you listen to somebody long enough, you kinda get to know 'cause they talk. Yo, it's Carrie: Really? okay. Okay. He looked kinda young. He looked younger he he looked younger than I thought, so yeah. Speaking of getting to know that Todd: Okay. So anyway, that was fun. Yo, it's Carrie: was cool. Thank you for sharing that. K I think that's really cool that they've selected twice Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: have selected one of your comments or questions to talk about. That's cool. Speaking of of knowing someone, I just saw this clip of it's Father Mike Schmitz. He's a he's a Catholic priest who does presentations and he does like read the Bible in a year and does podcasts and things like that. but in in his speaking, he referred to C. S. Lewis, and I was thinking of you, Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: and he said and then he referred to him as Jack. And he's like, Well, it goes. Todd: Yeah, that's what everybody called him. Yo, it's Carrie: He goes like, Well, you know, friends of it Friends of his called him Jack. So anyway, Jack and I it was really cute. I was like, that's that's awesome. You sh you should call him Jack too. Todd: This is true. That is funny. Jack. Well usually when I'm referencing him I want people to know who the hell I'm talking about. I don't Jack. Yo, it's Carrie: Gotcha. Well now you can say C. S. Lewis, you know, to me he's Jack. That's so funny. Yeah, I thought of you when I heard that. Todd: Alright guys, let's get into it. Are you reading it this week? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Sure. Todd: Alright, it's just chapter nineteen. It's yeah, Yo, it's Carrie: Is the sound good? is it nineteen? Todd: sounds good. I think it's nineteen. Yeah, it's nineteen. We did eighteen last week. We did the tail end eighteen last week. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: And we read out of the message, guys. for no other reason than the message is the best. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I I do whatever you want with that, I don't know. I like it. So I like the narrative Yo, it's Carrie: You like it. I Todd: the the narrative Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: approach that it takes. I think I in and I we really enjoy the stories and that's what we do on Bears with Jesus. We go through the stories of the Bible. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: The entire rest of the church is obsessed with the epistles and I understand why the epistles are really good. But I happen to like the stories. So Yo, it's Carrie: Obsessed that's funny. Todd: somebody's gotta hold down this particular chunk of the wall. Yo, it's Carrie: Ha ha Todd: Okay, we are in Genesis. we went all the way through Mark. We went all the way through Acts And now we're in Genesis and we're, I don't know, maybe almost halfway through Genesis. And this is the we're in this middle of the story of Abraham. This is Sodom Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and Gomorrah, and it's about Abraham's nephew Lot, is Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: is who this particular story is about. Carrie's gonna read it Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: for us. Yo, it's Carrie: All right, chapter nineteen. The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening. Lot was sitting at the city gate. He saw them and got up to welcome them, bowing before them and said, Please, my friends, come to my house and stay the night. Wash up, you can rise early and be on your way refreshed. They said, No, we'll sleep in the street. But he insisted, wouldn't take no for an answer. And they relented and went home with him. Lot fixed a hot meal for them and they ate. Before they went to bed, men from all over the city of Sodom, young and old, descended on the house from all sides and boxed them in. They yelled to Lot Where are the men who are staying with you for the night? Bring them out so we can have our sport with them. Goodness, again, I'm going into this totally blind. I shouldn't have I shouldn't have volunteered to read. Lot went out barring the door behind him and said, Brothers, please don't be vile. Look, I have two daughters, virgins. Let me bring them out. Goodness, you can take your pleasure with them, but don't touch these men. They're my guests. Wow. You know what? Lot can never mind. They said, get lost. You drop in from Wow. Todd: I told you there's a lot going on. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, we definitely didn't hear this. Todd: They didn't flannograph that out. Yo, it's Carrie: They said, Get lost, you drop in from nowhere, and now you're gonna tell us how to run our lives. We'll treat you worse than them. And they charged past Lot to break down the door. But the two men reached out and pulled Lot inside the house, locking the door. Then they struck blind the men who were trying to break down the door, both leaders and followers. leaving them groping in the dark. The two men said to Lot, Do you have any other family here? Sons, daughters, anybody in the city? Get them out of here and now we're going to destroy this place. The outcries of victims here to God the outcries of victi victims here to God are deafening. We've been sent to blast this place into oblivion. Lot went out and warned the fiancees of his daughters, evacuate this place God is about to destroy the city, but his daughters would be husbands treated it as a joke. At break of day, the angels pushed Lot to get going. Hurry, get your wife and two daughters out of here before it's too late, and you're caught in the punishment of the city. Lot was dragging his feet. The men grabbed Lot's arms and the arms of his wife and daughters. God was so merciful to them and dragged them to safety outside the city. when they had had them outside, Lot was told, Now run for your life, don't look back. Don't stop anywhere on the plain, run for the hills, or you'll be swept away. But Lot protested, No, masters, you can't mean it. I know that you've taken a liking to me and have done me an immense favor in saving my life. But I can't run for the mountains. Who knows what terrible thing might happen to me in the mountains and leave me for dead. Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: Look over there. That town is close enough to get to. It's a small town, hardly anything to it. Let me escape there and save my life. It's a mere wide place in the road. All right, Lot, if you insist, I'll let you have your way, and I won't stamp I won't stamp out the town you've spotted. But hurry up, run for it. I can't do anything until you get there. That's why the town was called Zoar. That is small town. The sun was high in the sky when Lot arrived at Zoar. Then God rained brimstone and fire down on Sodom and Gomorrah, a river of lava from God out of the sky, and destroyed these cities and the entire plain, and everyone who lived in the cities and everything that grew from the ground. But Lot's wife looked back and turned into a pillar of salt. Abraham got up early the next morning and went to the place where He had so recently stood with God, he looked out over Sodom and Gomorrah, surveying the whole plain. All he could see was smoke belching from the earth like smoke from a furnace. And that's the story. When God destroyed the cities of the plain, he was mindful of Abraham and first got Lot out of there before he blasted those cities off the face of the earth. Lot left Zoar and went to the mountains to live with his two daughters who He was afraid to stay in Tsar. He lived in a cave with his daughters. One day the older daughter said to the younger, Our father is getting old, and there's not a man left in the country by whom we can get pregnant. Let's get our father drunk with wine. I might need to pause here for a sip of mine. Todd: Ha ha ha. Yo, it's Carrie: Woo! Let's get our father drunk with wine and lie with him. We'll get children through our father. It's our only chance to keep our family alive. They got their father drunk with wine that very night. The older daughter went and lay with him. He was oblivious, knowing nothing of what she did. The next morning, the older said to the younger Well. Last night I slept with my father. To night it's your turn. We'll get him drunk again and then you sleep with him. We'll both get a child through our father and keep our family alive. So that night they got their father drunk again, and the younger went in and slept with him. Again he was oblivious, knowing nothing of what she did. Both daughters became pregnant by their father Lot. The older daughter had a son and named him Moab. The ancestor of the present day Moabites, the younger daughter, had a son and named him Ben Ami, the ancestor Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: of the present day Ammonites. Todd: Good job, Carrie. You weren't ready, were ya? You didn't know. Yo, it's Carrie: Whoa. No. I we should be doing shots with Jesus tonight, and I think I need a shower. Whoa. Todd: I told you I thought there were some things in this story that perhaps didn't make it through to everybody's general understanding of it. Yo, it's Carrie: I'm I'm sorry to like have this, you know, fresh reaction while we're recording, but at the same time I'm kinda glad I didn't know going in, it's like, whoa, that's wild. Todd: It's good. well I always say this, Carrie. It's good that it's good that you don't study 'cause you kinda represent you can kinda personify the audience 'cause they're hearing it for the first time, you know what mean? And they're they're like you, they're like, my god What is going on with Lot and his daughters? Yo, it's Carrie: Some of them. I'm so curious. Okay, I know. We're there are way more there are way more important questions probably to to ask, way more important comments to leave. But I'm kind of curious. I would love for people to leave comments like, did you know this story like that thoroughly? I'm Todd: Ha ha. Yo, it's Carrie: pretty stunned. What about you? Did what how much of this did you Todd: I I knew this story, so it it wasn't none of it was Yo, it's Carrie: They didn't hold back when you were like seven, eight, nine? Todd: I don't know that. I mean I read the Bible a lot, you know, and I mean I listen to a lot of stuff. So yeah. I I Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: do I know whether they did in when I was a kid, I don't remember exactly, but I mean I've known the story for a while. And I know that a lot of people have a v have a general impression of the story. And the general impressions right. Like God blessed it's Adam and Gomorrah because of Yo, it's Carrie: Whoa. Right. Yeah. Todd: of a of an Amazing amount of probably mostly sexual sin is what it seems like. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, kind of like my impression w has always been that it was just kind of like hedonistic, you know, just like Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: anything goes orgy's in the Todd: Well Yo, it's Carrie: you know, orgies in the streets sort of activity. Todd: Time Cornell. I'd be walking with an umbrella. Yo, it's Carrie: Dude, I I I saw I saw an opening act. It wasn't the comedian I went to see, but I saw an opening act of a comedy show and this guy bombed so bad and he made a Cornell joke. It wasn't even like a Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: favorable one. It was like he just made r he just referred to Cornell. And it Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: the whole crowd was just like like he was like he was like Todd: They didn't like it. Yo, it's Carrie: too soon and everyone was just like Dude Like it was horrible. It was Todd: I think a lot of people don't even know that story, honestly. I I I mean, if you're on X you do, but like I've bounced it off a few people who maybe I know aren't don't follow things as much as I would. Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Hmm. Todd: And then after I get into it a little bit, they'll be like, Hey no, I think I heard something about that. But it but you know what I mean? I d I don't know that if if you if Yo, it's Carrie: Dang. Yeah. Anyway. Todd: you haven't listened to Wildly Opinion in a news hour then th then you wouldn't understand. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, sorry. Todd: But you can, that's the great thing. After this show, you can go listen right away. You can commit three hours of your life to Todd's World today. Yo, it's Carrie: Two hours and fifteen minutes. Free free. Todd: Welcome! We love you. Follow us, subscribe. Go buy a book, Todd's World.net. Okay. so anyway. Yo, it's Carrie: There you go. Todd: I wanted to go back to 18 for just a second. Yo, it's Carrie: Wow. Okay. Todd: 18 Genesis 18 verse 17. Then God said, Yo, it's Carrie: Well Todd: Shall I well before that, verse 16? When the men got up to leave, they set off for Sodom. Abraham walked with them to say goodbye. Then God said, Shall I keep back from Abraham what I'm about to do? Abraham's going to become a large and strong nation. All the nations of the world are going to find themselves blessed through him. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: yes, I've settled on him, blah blah as as the one. God continued, the cries of Of the victims in Sodom and Gomorrah are deafening. The sin of those cities is immense. I'm going down to see for myself, see if they're doing it, see if what they're doing is as bad as it sounds, then I'll know. My point is that what's happened here isn't just, I don't think, just hedonism. When when God says the cries of the victims are crying out, and then when you when we watch the scene that plays out when the angels get there, this isn't just This isn't all consensual is my point. You know what I mean? Like things have Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Todd: devolved to the point that that mobs are taking what they want sexually, what their passions are, and and and they don't care. There there's another there's a story in the book of Judges, and it's about Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: a man whose whose whose daughter was kind of stuck outside and these mobs of people got a hold of her. And they basically raped her and raped her and raped her until she died. And then they left her dead corpse like on her dad's threshold. It's like a horrible story in judges. Yo, it's Carrie: Wow. Yeah. Todd: But I think that's the kind of thing going on here. I think that this has progressed beyond this isn't just like gay marriage, right? This is this is progressed. Sexual rack and room and I say that I I don't I do think that the that the homosexuality matters because They they had come down to the to the spiral to the point that they didn't want anything to do with Lot's daughters. You know what I mean? Like they wanted what they wanted, this mob of of people. Yo, it's Carrie: Hmm, sure. Todd: Like they they and so you you you see progressing down this road and I think when God says the cries of the victims, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I think this isn't just like this isn't a swinger's cruise. Do you know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: I I was gonna say, yeah, it's not right, it's not like a it's not like the not like a party in Todd: Like there's a lot of people in this town Yo, it's Carrie: Rome. This is like this is violent. It's violent. Todd: Yeah, these they're they're and it's it's interesting. Now they also go off on Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: on lot some. the lot offering is daughter thing. Okay. I'm Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: gonna say that I d I just don't think we can e even now, having studied it, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I just I don't it's really, really hard in twenty twenty six to wrap Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. Todd: our heads around ancient Middle Eastern culture. It's just it's so difficult. But but they Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: were the hosp the the the the virtue, I guess you'd say, of hospitality was so important in the in the Middle East and in the Near East that if you took someone into your home, you you Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: you were basically saying, I'm willing to give my life to protect you while you're under my home. So to to offer a stars, I'm not saying he wanted to, but that's I just don't think we can wrap our heads around it. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. The standards, the standards of that time and that culture don't align with ours, so it's we can't understand it, is what you're saying. Todd: Right, not at all. I mean it's it's it's almost alien to us when we hear this. You know what I mean? I mean it is to me. I'm not gonna offer one of my daughters for some Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, that's thank you. Yeah, it is. It's like, whoa No. Todd: stranger who I happen to give board to. Do you know what I mean? Like Yo, it's Carrie: Right right. Todd: I can't even wrap my head around that, but but this culture that it was different. There's a lot different. Yo, it's Carrie: Well I was gonna say today we would just be like, I'm not offering you anything. Get the hell outta here. Like, who are you? You know, we'd be sorry, we'd be holding a shotgun at the front door. Todd: It's also it's also interesting that that the angels come and they want to stay outside. Because, you know, they want to see what's what. And Lot makes it makes a very firm point that he is not going to take no for an answer, and these people are not going to sleep on the streets, because Lot knows what's going to happen if they sleep on the streets. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Wow. Mm-hmm. Todd: I mean, this this is a this is a wicked town. This is this is The Romans one spiral spiraling all the way down to Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: where there's these victims crying out. My guess is it's not just all sexual. I mean Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: there there is a a verse in Jude that says something along the lines of we we talked about it with that when we talked about the Nephilim, about the Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: the angels that were w that were trapped and it talks about Sodom and Gomorrah going to like sexual rack and ruin or whatever. So Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I mean that there is that is definitely a big part of it, but I Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: just think that's kind of the end stages. My Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: guess is a lot of people were were not loving their neighbors like they should either, in our in other ways. Do you know what I mean? Like Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Right. Todd: I have a feeling this was a cultural problem, obviously. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and so yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: So Todd, can I ask you I'm sorry, are you going somewhere with this? 'Cause I don't wanna interrupt. I'm curious Well you were you were flipping pages and I'm like, I don't wanna interrupt you. You do. You go places. You you're intentional. I just wanna Todd: No no no no you go. Where do when do I ever go anywhere with anything? Go ahead. the places I'll go. Yo, it's Carrie: I just wanna understand why if there are victims crying out, why are the victims destroyed in this as well? Like Todd: That's an interesting question that I don't know the answer to. Because I thought that too, reading it. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. It's like it's so it's so bad there. clearly there yeah, clearly there are are victims in this in these two cities. Todd: I guess I guess we treat it I I mean I guess God looks at it to some degree like he looks like when he did the flood. And I mean this isn't Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: like when when when he sends when he sends the kingdoms of Israel into exile, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: there's there's seven thousand who haven't bent the knee to or whatever, that was with Elijah, but still there's there's a lot of people there, thousands who weren't Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: evil. Now they're th now they're by they're they're a small minority. But they Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: get taken away too. Like they like there's a point to the fact that we live in America, right? And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: so right now gas is almost five dollars a gallon because of this Iran war, whatever it's because of. And it doesn't matter if we wanted the Iran war or if we didn't, we still get to pay five dollars a gallon. Like like you're Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: you're kinda part of it as a community, you know what I mean? I guess. I I I understand Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Yeah. Todd: the question. I just God went out of his way to save Lot. In his family? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: because of Abraham had to have something to do with that, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: I want to read you something. This is kind of wild. This is in 2 Peter 2. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: where'd my cursor go? 2 Peter 2, 6 through 9. Where'd it go? why am I in 1 Peter 2? Makes a difference. Second Peter two. Yo, it's Carrie: Turn a couple of pages, you're good. Todd: Second Peter two. Okay. what I'm gonna start at the beginning of the chapter in Second Peter two because I think Peter's talking a fair amount about Sodom and Gabor and about lot. And I feel like maybe he gives us like a little something that we can get a handle on this story from. Do you know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: So this is the beginning of Second Peter two. But there were also lying prophets among the people then, just as there will be lying religious teachers among you. They'll smuggle in destructive divisions, pitting you against each other, biting the hand of the one who gave them a chance to have their lives back. They've put themselves on a fast downhill slide to destruction, but not before they recruit a crowd of mixed up followers who can't tell right from wrong. They give the way of truth a bad name. They're only out for themselves. They'll say anything, anything that sounds good to exploit you. They won't, of course, get by with it. They'll come to a bad end. For God has never just stood by and let that kind of thing go on. I think that's an important verse, especially with with what we're looking at. God's Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: it we talked last week about what was it last week we talked about Judas, don't play games with me. Did we talk about that a little bit or not? Or am I mixing up my own personal Bible study with Beers of Jesus? I have other conversations, people, with Yo, it's Carrie: I no, I remember I remember a s right. You know what? I so I remember talking about that with you, but I don't feel like it was recently. Okay. I could be wrong. Todd: Maybe it was. Okay. Anyway. for God has never just stood by and let that kind of thing go on. God didn't let Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: the rebel angels off the hook, but jailed them in hell till judgment day. So that's that Nephilim reference. Neither did he let the ancient ungodly world off. He wiped it out with a flood, rescuing only eight people. Noah, the sole voice of righteousness, was one of them. God decreed destruction for the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. A mound of ashes was all that was left. Grim Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: warning to anyone bent on an ungodly life. But that good man Lot, driven nearly out of his mind by the sexual filth and perversion, was rescued. Surrounded by moral rot day after day after day, the righteous man was in constant torment. So God knows how to rescue the godly from evil trials, and he knows how to hold the feet of the wicked to the fire until judgment day. Yo, it's Carrie: Hmm. Todd: So I feel like that last verse is kind of telling us this is how Peter's interpreting that story, right? The story we're we're dealing with today. Peter Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Todd: calls Lot righteous, which is weird. A lot of people. struggle with that and I mean if you think about it, I'm gonna tell you, Carrie, that after this we're not gonna hear about Lot again. Have we heard one thing good about Lot in the entire story of Abraham? I th No. Yo, it's Carrie: Not really. I mean well I mean he was following the hospitality rules. Todd: True. Yo, it's Carrie: well and he listened he listened to God's angels. Todd: Right. That's true too. Yo, it's Carrie: I mean he didn't do anything bad to his uncle. He just seemed Todd: No. Yo, it's Carrie: he just seemed to have I mean, they were just different people. He wasn't bad, it just Todd: Yeah. Well he seemed kinda he he always seemed enamored Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: with the cities of the plain, right? With city life, with urban life, with Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Yep. Todd: with everything that went along with them. and yet you're right, he feared God. You know, I was listening to Steve Gregg. I told you about Steve Gregg last week, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Bible teacher. We went and saw. and I was listening to him talk about this and he made a he made a solid point about that that we kind of forget about. He said They didn't have the Bible. They barely knew. I mean, Lot did Lot fear God, it seems like he did. As Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: much as he knew. They didn't have the law. We think of the Ten Commandments. They didn't have that. I don't think they necessarily knew that incest was bad or horrible. I mean, people were marrying their sisters. You know, it's still kind of early in things. Yo, it's Carrie: Huh. Todd: I just don't think I think that God. judges us by the light that we have. Do you know what I mean? In Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: other words, God doesn't hold us to a standard of people who have a completed Bible and a megachurch on every in every city. And you know what I mean? Like Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: God judges us according to the light that we had. And the light that Lot had wasn't very much, maybe. And so Peter calls him a righteous man. And we have to I mean it says that he was tormented Day after day living in Sodom. Now to me I think he didn't have to live in Sodom, he chose to live there. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Right, right. Todd: So I I'm a little So maybe but then later on the other thing that happens is is the crowd gets real upset with him, obviously, right? Because he won't let the he won't let the angels out. And so when the crowd says to him, Where are the men that are staying with you for the night? Bring them out so we can have our sport with them. Obviously they would like to sexually assault them. Right? Yo, it's Carrie: Wow. Mm-hmm. Todd: Lot went out barring the door and then he offers his daughters, but they don't want his daughters. They don't want anything that normal. You know that We get to a place like that with our sin. That's what people talk about with like porn and everything else. It you have to keep amping it up, amping it up, amping it up, amping it up, because it it wears, you know what I mean? The effects wear off. And so you're after a dopamine Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: hit and you have to keep going after more hardcore, more hardcore, more hardcore stuff, right? But Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: that's not just porn, that's life in general. If you're giving Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: yourself over to that kind of a thing, it it constantly loses its edge. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: That's why, like with drugs, people are constantly up in the amounts that they're taking, right? It's just it's constantly Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: you're after a rush, and in order to get that rush, you have to keep increasing the dose. Does that make sense? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Yeah. Yes. Todd: So lot went up, blah blah blah. Then they said this is what the crowd said to Lot. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Get lost. You drop in from nowhere, and now you're going to tell us how to run our lives. We'll treat you worse than them. No, they were already not gonna treat those angels very well. So I don't know what Lot was in for. But what I think is and Lot's sitting at the at the city gate when they come in, that's why he sees the angels right away. Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Todd: And I think my guess is what happened. Let's go back. Remember Abraham Abraham and Lot are together. Eventually they split up because Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: there's too many servants, too many herds, the whole thing, God's blessing them both, and Abraham's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: like, we can't be together. You go one way, I'll go the other way, you choose. Lot looked at this the plains, the cities Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: of the plain, the fertile plains, Sodom and Gomorrah, the whole thing, and he said, I want that. And then Abraham took the hill country. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: And then, do you remember that chapter where there was a group of kings? They came down and they conquered Yo, it's Carrie: yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: Sodom and Gomorrah and a group in like two other cities and and Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: everybody. And they took off all the spoils and all the people with them into bondage, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: And Abraham hears about it, or Abram at the time. Abram hears about Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: it. And he's got, I think it was like 384 or 360, whatever the it was like a a tad under Yo, it's Carrie: It was small. Todd: four, between three and four hundred, like servants. And then Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: he gets some help from from his these guys that live by him. And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: They go to this massive army, attack them at night in small groups, defeat this army, take everything back, and that's when Abram meets Melchizedek, right? But if you remember Yo, it's Carrie: yes. Todd: in that story, the king of Sodom says to Abraham, Listen, take all the spoils, all the loot, all the booty, and Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: give me the people. That's all. And Abraham says, All right. I'm not taking anything from you because you aren't going to go around telling people you made me rich. And so the only reason that Yo, it's Carrie: Right. He doesn't want anything. Todd: Abraham did this was because of Lot. He loved Lot, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: And he went and he saved Lot and his family. My guess is when Sodom gets set back up as a kingdom, that Lot Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: By virtue of the fact that Abram was the one who rescued everybody, has a pretty high place in the governing society of Sodom and Gomorrah. But that doesn't matter when the entire city is so hellbent on sin. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: why maybe Peter says he was vet he was in the old King James it says vexed. He was vexed day after day after day. And I and I think it has to do with that. You know what Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. nice. It's a good word. Mm-hmm. Todd: I mean? So Lot doesn't have a Bible. He doesn't have all that much revelations. God's not showing up talking to Lot like He is to Abraham. He hasn't chosen Lot to make a great nation out of him. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: But by n by being with Abraham and around Abraham a lot, he's exposed to all of this and the stories of God's visitations Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: with Abraham. And he knows kind of what's you know what I mean? And Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: he seems to care enough to respond to these angels when his Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I mean he goes and tells his his daughter's fiancees and they laugh at him 'cause they think it's a joke. Probably no different than the people of Noah's day. When Noah's trying to preach to right? Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's exactly what I thought of in that part. It was like, he's trying to he's trying to save them and they're like mm. Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: Not marrying into this crazy family. Todd: So I guess Lot given we have to take him with what he had to work with, maybe. You know Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: what I mean? And with what he had to work with at the time, freshly not that far out of the flood. No Bible, no law, no Ten Commandments. We're 500 years from Moses at this point. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: So Things are God's just getting back in touch, kind of working with people directly at this point, after Noah, Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: right? He goes Noah, then he goes Abraham. And so I guess given that, I mean, we have to take Peter's word, right? That Lot was a righteous man for his time, and given the light of knowledge that he had, I guess. What do you think? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Well, it makes me curious about what their what their laws might have been at this time. Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: you know we're speaking about God's expectation of our behavior, but I'm curious what their laws were. But yeah, it's it's generous of you to, you know, shed light on on lots knowledge at this point, 'cause it's true, I think. You're right. It's before Before everything we've been taught. Todd: We have a tendency to want to hold people to the standards of our current generations. Like we do this you even see this like with the woke stuff. You saw this when when they would go back and they'd be like, Well, think of what they did Yo, it's Carrie: go back. Todd: in the fifties, you know what I mean? And you're like, listen, it was a different it wasn't the same time. Like, we Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Todd: can't judge those people by where we've the where the culture has come to at this point. Do you know what mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Todd: So I I just think We aren't very good at that as a as a society and as a culture. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: We we just really aren't. We we we have a hard time first of all, I don't even know how much actual history a lot of people even know. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: And to the extent that we do know it, we don't respect it very much. Do you know what I mean? We're like Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: a forward looking bunch and we're like we look now and we look forward and we're like robots are gonna rule the world, we're gonna do this, we're gonna you know but we don't pay a lot of attention we to to the ancient texts, to the old truths, you know what I mean? To Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: the old stories. I just feel like as a culture we're not very good at that. I mean some, I'm not saying nobody, but I just feel like that's gotten lost. What do you think? Yo, it's Carrie: I think so. I'm I was trying to think of an example, but yeah, if there's well, I mean, just even the founding fathers, like there's there's so much good in what they set up, but everyone today is looking back and saying, Well, they were slave o they were slave right, Todd: Why didn't you deal with slavery in seventeen seventy-six? Yo, it's Carrie: they were slave exactly. And it's like, you know, we're certainly not condoning slavery, but it it but it was Todd: Some of them wanted to, but they they couldn't come to any kind of an agreement. Yo, it's Carrie: right, but today, I mean today we're not condoning Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: it, but at that time it was it was a normal practice. So anyway. Yeah, I know what you mean. So mm Todd: I think that's encouraging. The reason I think that's encouraging is because not everybody in life gets as much light as others. So Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: well, I think it's also encouraging. If you're on the low light end, I think it's encouraging. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: If you are on the highlight end where you're Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: getting a lot of light, man, to whom much is given, much is required. You know what I mean? Are you ministering Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Todd: For God to the extent of the light and the mission that He's given you. You know what I mean? And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: that also serves to keep our eyes on ourselves, which is always the best place for our eyes to be. It's just as soon as we start wandering far afield and being like, Yeah, but what about this guy? Yeah. You know what I mean? And we all do it. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: I mean, even Peter, like Peter, Jesus is telling him when you get older, someone's gonna bind you and you're gonna have and he's kind of signifying what his death is gonna be like. This is right before the Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Todd: ascension. And Peter looks at John and says, What about him? And Jesus is like, What about him? If I want him to live till I return, what difference does it make to you? That's Jesus' answer. So And John was the only one who of the apostles who wasn't martyred, historically, tradition tells us. So Yo, it's Carrie: Really? Todd: yeah. He was dipped in boiling oil, and then he was exiled, but he did but miraculously didn't die. And then was exiled Yo, it's Carrie: Ouch. Todd: to Patmos, where a lot of people think that he wrote Revelation. And Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: he ended up coming back and he was part of the church of Ephesus, and and he's probably the only one that lived into his nineties and died of of old age or whatever, you know. There there's stories Yo, it's Carrie: Wow. Todd: that that the Apostle John as he in his real late days, they'd kinda haul him up, and all he had really the strength to say was love one another, and he would say it and they'd haul him back. Which is kind of cool. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: And if you read John's epistles, first, second, and third John, that Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: story rip feels true. You know? So yeah, I think that's kind of cool. Yo, it's Carrie: that's cool. Hey, if you're gonna if you're gonna sum up if you're gonna sum up everything. Yeah. Todd: You could do worse. Yo, it's Carrie: So but I think no, I I like how you're again shedding some compassionate light on Lot on Woody knows. This is Todd: Well God was compassionate to I mean that's what it says. Like Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: what when it says God was so merciful to them 'cause he's grabbing them by the arm. And you have to wonder Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: how much of that I mean, this had to be a little hard for Lot and his wife and his daughters to believe too. Like, Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: it's a blue sky, what are you talking about? Do you know what mean? I Yo, it's Carrie: Yes. Yeah. Todd: mean, there's some of that in us, right? We're like, what? I don't I don't know. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I mean, yeah, if your your person grabs onto you and says, Grab the girls, these these these these two guys are are Todd: We're raining destruction on this city. You're like, what? Yo, it's Carrie: angels of God and this is what's coming, you know, you'd be like, What? Yeah. Mm. Todd: You know when I got some ideas for witness out of this? I thought, you know, destroying some cities, striking some people blind could be some fun stuff. For Lucas. Yes. Yo, it's Carrie: There you go. yeah, I love don't you love that though? Don't you love that the angels? Todd: Yeah, those guys were probably blind for the rest of their lives, which was like three hours. He didn't even have long enough to listen to both our shows this week. Yo, it's Carrie: For that it was dark there at the end for those guys. Todd: If only they'd have had Todd's roll to go out on. the other thing we gotta get to I mean he tells them to run for it, tells him not to look back. God rains Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: fire down. Lots lot wife looks back and turns into a pillar of salt. Right? Yo, it's Carrie: I thought in the original story sh they were warned. I mean I know that here in this version they Todd: Well they were warned to not look back. Yo, it's Carrie: were told not to look back, but I thought they were warned that they would die or something like that. This is pretty vague here. I don't know. Todd: Well, they kinda say that, don't they? They say, Now run for your life, don't look bad, don't stop anywhere on the plane, run for the hills or you'll be swept away. Yo, it's Carrie: You'll you'll be swept away. Todd: And I and I do wonder, you know, a lot of people the way it was presented to me when I was a kid was Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: that this was kind of like a supernatural thing. Like Lot's wife looked Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: back and just turned into a statue of salt. That's I mean Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: that's what I think they thought. That's how they communicated it. Yo, it's Carrie: Do you think that it wasn't that? Todd: Well I don't think it had to be that. I think that whatever was happening, whatever's raining down out of the sky, whatever minerals, whatever else, I think Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: that if she looked back and and then was was struck almost like paralysis watching her home. These people Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: she knew, and I just think what the I think it could be. I mean I listen, it could have been supernatural. God could have turned her Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: into a salt version of the statue of Rocky. But I don't know that he did. It could have been that she was just swept up in it and surrounded Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: by salt and minerals and killed and whatever. You know what I mean? I don't Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: know. I don't know which it is, but it the angels seem to say that if you look back and you pause that you were you were gonna be lost. And Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: and you know I think that I mean it was her whole life. Like we picture this like I just think it's a lot. It it's not only her whole life, it's not only her friends, it's not only her home, it's where she's been, it's where Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: her daughter's fiances are, it's where she expected to live out the rest of her life, and Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: clearly her and lot both had some both enjoyed the civilized urban whatever it was. Whatever they got out of it that was I mean, they put up with a lot, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. They they didn't have plans to leave. Todd: No, I mean they're putting up lots like vex day after day after day. And yeah, Yo, it's Carrie: Their daughters are yeah, their daughters are getting married. Todd: I mean they're but they're part of that community and there doesn't seem to be a much of a willingness. In fact there's a hesitation to leave when the angels are trying to pull them out. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: And I mean, you look at the end of the story and you think, Well, I mean, how did it benefit to leave exactly? Like God rescued them for what? So they could end up drunk having incest in a cave and then give birth to the two sons that are gonna give make these lines, the Moabites and the Emonites, that are thorns in the side of Israel for their entire existence almost until they blot them out when they finally get in. Yes. So this becomes Yo, it's Carrie: really? no. Todd: this this has significant now that's redeemed too. Ruth was from Moab. Ruth was a Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: Moabitus and she's in the line of Christ. So, Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: you know, I mean that the there's there's redemption there too, but but Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: certainly there was a lot of a lot of warring and a lot of this didn't end up well for for Abraham's descendants. Lots descendants and Abraham's descendants were at each other's throat for for Yo, it's Carrie: Wow. Todd: a lot of hundreds and hundreds of years, maybe a thousand years, I can't remember how long. Till Moab was in the Ammonites were finally defeated. But it was a long time. And Yo, it's Carrie: Man. Todd: you know what? When you look at the daughters, like I said, they Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: don't have they they didn't live in the same world we do. Like the Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: most important thing in the world to them was was carrying on their line. Think of how how we've seen how important that is to Abraham. And Abram, the Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: entire for 25 years he's holding on to this. And then they try something with Hagar. You know what I mean? Like this Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. Todd: is like this is top of the pyramid for things that that they want, you know? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I don't I just don't understand why they didn't go to some town and pick up a dude, you know? Todd: Apparently Lot left the town 'cause he was scared. I don't I mean I guess you saw what happened. Lot was never a very courageous fellow. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: So but I mean it is what it is. It's I I do think that that Yo, it's Carrie: Well and he's gotta be terrified. He's also he's he just he just saw his home burned to the ground and he lost Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: his wife. Todd: Yeah, this is still somewhat unique. This isn't happening all the time. I mean, I know we had Pompeii Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and whatever, but we don't know if that was the same kind of thing or not. But Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: like this is not cities and towns don't get wiped out by being blasted from heaven by God. And I don't know what this was. Maybe it was a volcano local you know what I mean? I d I don't know. I'm sure that God works through nature, I expect that he did, even Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: if it even if he's supernaturally using nature. You know Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: But I mean to them, Todd: What do you got, Kerry? Yo, it's Carrie: well w whatever it was, to them I'm imagining that it was just a a shock. Yes. Todd: It was the world was ending. Yo, it's Carrie: I mean it was a shock. There's you know, there's I I'm picturing kind of like one of those like Independence Day movies with like, you know, fireballs coming out of nowhere and just Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: yeah, blasting everything to bits. Mm. Todd: But I do think the best thing we could take out of this is that second Peter Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: thing where it says, So God knows how to rescue the godly from evil trials Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and he knows how to hold the feet of the wicked to the fire until judgment day. So there is those two parts of God. We really Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: like sometimes to get stuck on the mercy of God and we think but but there's that other side. There's that other side Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that if you won't repent, if you if you won't listen and if you if you won't change your lives Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Because the kingdom's come, there's no other alternative but destruction. Though that's I mean, what does C.S. Lewis say? Jack, what does Jack say? Jack says if you if if we won't eat the only food and breathe the only air that the universe has to give, we're Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: we're destined for destruction. You know? And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and I think that's kind of what it came to. And then God cares. Don't think God cares. Don't let God's holding back make you think that it's because it's is he's abounding in mercy. It's not because he's letting anybody off the hook. Does Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that make sense? Yo, it's Carrie: So you mean I mean yeah, what do what do you mean? Todd: I mean now like we see we we see our culture and we see it and we just think but God's God's holding Yo, it's Carrie: you mean w when we feel like no one no one's getting theirs? Todd: yeah but God's holding back and he's holding back Yo, it's Carrie: yeah. Todd: his judgment but that doesn't mean that his judgment will be held back forever. He specifically Jesus specifically Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: says that. What are one of the apostles do? One of them anyway, it's all inspired. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. No, I understand what you're saying. And well, and I think it's Todd: What do you think, Carrie? Yo, it's Carrie: well, I think it's I don't know. I think it's better not to focus on other people like, you know, let's say Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: you see people around you, maybe a neighbor, s you know, someone you know who you just feel like is a real nasty person. Todd: Right. Yo, it's Carrie: I don't know. I just don't I don't like to live thinking like, you know, I hope something J just I hope something just happens. Todd: I don't mean people personally. Yo, it's Carrie: Right, right. Todd: But I think when you look at like countries or you look at regions or you look at civilizations and cultures and you think man, Yo, it's Carrie: sure. Okay. Todd: God is really letting this go for a while. You know what I mean? That's more what I'm talking about. More of a macro view, not necessarily micro, if that makes sense. Yo, it's Carrie: Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So yeah, I know what you mean then. But yeah, I mean, that's just we just have to trust, I guess. Do you do you think that Do you think that fearing this kind of judgment, this kind of punishment, is constructive to people who are seeking God, seeking to understand? Todd: Yeah, I think we'd be I think we'd be better off with a lot more fear of God is what I expect. I expect God's a lot Yo, it's Carrie: Do you? Todd: more fearful than we give him credit for because I mean we have Jesus and you know he's he's loving Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: and and all these things. But at the same time, you know, if Jesus just appeared to us, just Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and didn't veil his glory at all, we'd die. Probably. You know what I mean? Like like I just think Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Right. We can't we can't take it in. Todd: I think that that that there's a lot more room for the fear of God in the Christian life than we like to to think, is what I think. Because we I mean there's a lot of mercy and there and there's a lot of those things. But it does say that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: We're gonna see here and when when Abraham and Sarah are about to have Isaac, God already prophesied that. I said a year from now when I come back, you're gonna have a son through Sarah. Well, that's gonna be Isaac, laughter. And Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh. Todd: we're gonna see That one of the one of the terms for God that's used specifically when Isaac is interacting with God is the fear. It's it's a it's kind of an interesting Yo, it's Carrie: Hmm. Todd: you don't hear it a lot, and we'll run into it as we as we go, but Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: but it yeah, it's the And then there there's other passages that talk about a dread. Remember when Abraham falls asleep, God's there and he's walking through the firepot and things and it talks about the dread. This this dread falls over Abraham. Because Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: God's there. I don't know if you remember that. We we went over that. Yo, it's Carrie: I don't remember this. Todd: that was in Yo, it's Carrie: Why did he why did he feel dread? Todd: That was in chapter fifteen. And Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: Here's what it says. Vultures remember he tells Abraham split the carcasses and do all that. Yo, it's Carrie: yes. Todd: Vultures swooped on it on the carcasses, but Abram scared them off. As the sun went Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh. Todd: down, a deep sleep overcame Abram, then a sense of dread, dark and heavy. I just think Yo, it's Carrie: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: there's part of that with God. Anytime God shows up. now does that Yo, it's Carrie: Well Todd: mean you gotta walk around afraid of them all the time? Not necessarily that, but you but you better have a healthy respect for the creator of the universe. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. And if I'm not i Todd: You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: I I was gonna say, if I remember correctly, when people talk about the fear of God or it's in the Bible fear of God, that translation is actually like a reverence or a respect. You know, reverence, respect, honoring God. It's not to be like cowering in fear. Like that's not Todd: I yeah, I don't think God wants us to walk around afraid per se. But Yo, it's Carrie: Right, right. Todd: if you're gonna if you're gonna live if you're gonna thumb your nose at God, which it kinda sounds like Sodom and Gomorrah were, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: man, that's a dangerous position to be in. And like a lot of our Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: culture does, because they don't believe in him. And that Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: may not be any different than Sodom and Gomorrah, they just may just not have believed in him. But if you don't believe in God, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: if you think that you were, you know, just the product of some protons that came together in some sludge like a billion years ago, then Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: you're probably not going to reverence him, you're not gonna respect him, and and you're you're not gonna give them any kind of notice. And God doesn't take very well to that. And it just doesn't work. It doesn't work Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: in the world because you're you're you're constantly going against. the grain of how God created the world to work. Do you know what I mean? And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: and that's why as they descended into this, these victims are crying out. And and that you get this picture of just this town that is given over to just to to to selfishness and to the not Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: caring and to violence and all these things. And just, Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: you know, they don't even know how to love anymore. They don't even know what it means. You know what Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: I mean? Because they've they've they've given themselves over to just this this decadence, I think. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, like base yeah, like base. Todd: And yeah, I think there's a lot more room for Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: for the fear of God than we give credit for. Reverence, awe, respect, however you want to think of it. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: if you're not if you're not in a position where you're giving him his proper due, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: man, that's a scary place to be. 'Cause what if you get content there? That's what happened with with these people. That's what happens with lot of people. A lot of people go their whole lives that way. They're perfectly content. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: thumb in their nose of God 'cause they don't think there is a God. And the only way that God can break in is with something like this. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: So this put the fear of God maybe into lot, maybe into some of the other cities. Who knows? I mean, it's carried down all through since then, right? Like this is the story. Everybody knows Sodom and Gomorrah. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: So there there was something God was trying to tell us in this, which is I know how to I I I haven't just because I'm merciful, there's a judgment side too. Don't get too comfortable in your sins, maybe. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: What do you think? I know that you don't like that as much. You don't think that I just know you you don't like the idea Yo, it's Carrie: What? I don't like what? Todd: of having to be afraid of God. And I don't think we have to be afraid of God. Yo, it's Carrie: no, I mean yeah, no no. I no I think I think understanding that he's gonna hold us accountable is I think that's important. I don't think there's anything Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: wrong with that. yeah, I mean this this sounds really bad. It was Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: really bad. Todd: God just kinda wiped the slate clean, much like he did with the flood. I mean it was Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. I mean Todd: on a smaller scale, but Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I mean this sounds almost like gang activity. You know, this little this pack of people shows up and's like, you know, you've got house guests, send out. It's like, what? Like what? Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: It's wild. Yeah, it's disturbing. So Mm. Yeah. Todd: Yeah. They've gotten towards the bottom of it, I r I reckon. And to be fair, we do have I mean I said that Lot didn't have the Bible, neither did the people in Sodom and Gomorrah. And and four hundred years or five hundred years later, Moses is God's gonna give Moses the Ten Commandments. He's gonna give Moses the law. He's gonna Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: begin to reveal himself in greater detail in his Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: plan. To this particular people that he's working with, and then of course eventually that's gonna become Christ, and Christ is gonna widen it out to the whole world. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: And so it's it matters, you know what I mean? Like God's God's working through this whole thing, and he is and he's constantly revealing himself, and so this was revelatory that even though God promised never to destroy the earth again, you don't have a free pass. Like he said he's never gonna flood the earth again, and he put a rainbow in the sky to remind us of it, but you don't Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Todd: get to do whatever you want to do. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: You answer to the creator, the one who made you. Someday, someday. Make sense? Yo, it's Carrie: So Okay, I have a question. Do you think the people who lived in these cities on some level maybe early on on some level knew Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: that they were what they were doing was wrong? You do? Excuse me. Todd: Yeah, I do. Mm-hmm. I you know, I base that on the fact that what they said what they said a lot. When they said get lost, you drop in from nowhere, and now you're gonna tell us how to run our lives? We'll treat you worse than them. That doesn't sound like somebody who feels like they're innocent. You know what I mean? Like they're like they're reactive against what do you why why why do you think you're so much better than us? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I mean it it just sounds sure. Right. It's like argumentative, it's defiant. Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Todd: Well, I think God's put that isn't there there's a there's is it Paul that talks about in Romans how God th there's a there's a natural law that God's put inside of us and that he's put inside of creation. Yo, it's Carrie: That that's what I wondered. Like if this is all if this is pre pre ten commandments, pre Jesus and all that, it's like what right, like like that that innate sense of Todd: There's still the natural law. There's still that natural morality that is Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: yeah, of goodness and interesting. Todd: Yeah, I mean you might not it might not you could be in a jungle somewhere. I still think that these these tribes that have no contact have some some innate sense of of morality. I'm not saying it's very well developed, and I'm not saying that's gonna lead Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Like a relative Todd: to pray to Jesus on the cross. That requires us, I guess. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. But like a r right. Todd: That requires other people to tell Yo, it's Carrie: But like relatively speaking, some kind of honor code or something that Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: a a s a standard of treating of treating each other? Todd: And I personally believe if a person if a person dies, not ever having, you know, been presented the gospel, for Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: sure, not not ever having a a direct encounter with Jesus, that Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: God to some extent still judges them according to the light that they've been given. And and in in in the later in in in some stage, in some later part of this story, they will Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: be confronted, they will see Jesus. And they'll Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: they'll be and they'll have the opportunity to either accept or reject at that point. I know that we have a thing Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: of like, well how could they ever re reject? Well I think in the afterlife, but I don't think it's quite as cut and dry as we like to think. Reference the Great Yo, it's Carrie: Right. We don't know. Todd: Divorce by Jack. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, I just that just came up in something and I I was like, I I was tr looking up something and it quoted and I thought, Man, I gotta pick that up again. Start it over. Again. Okay. Woo. my gosh. Todd: Alright guys. Well listen, it we're an hour and fifteen in. We're so long winded this week. You have three and a half hours of us this week. You can't get enough of Carrie. Yo, it's Carrie: I'm sorry I'm so sorry. Just Todd: Listen to the wildly opinion in Newshower if you haven't carry. I think we did Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: the best that we could with Sodom and Gamora this week. It's a wild story, but when you start to look for ways to like Yo, it's Carrie: It's a really wild story. Todd: apply it, it starts to become a little more like you know what I mean. It can Yo, it's Carrie: Yikes. Yep. Todd: become a little more difficult. So anyway, check out Toddsworld.net. Buy a book. If Yo, it's Carrie: All right. Todd: you want to support us, buy a book. That would be hugely helpful. And subscribe and tell your friends about it. Share clips. and w the only way people are gonna find out about us is if you tell You tell your friends, listen, I've never heard a Christian podcast exactly like this. You gotta you gotta listen. Yo, it's Carrie: Well that's that's very true. I will say that's very true. Todd: Anyway, thank you for joining us today. Thank you, Carrie. We'll be back next week Yo, it's Carrie: Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you, Todd. Todd: with Beers with Jesus. Same day, same time, same place. Join us. All right. Thanks, Carrie. Yo, it's Carrie: Can't wait. Thank you.