Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 459: 695 GMAT, and retaking. 755 GMAT, 3.0 GPA. Kellogg vs Tepper

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MBA Wire Taps 459: 695 GMAT, and retaking. 755 GMAT, 3.0 GPA. Kellogg vs Tepper · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Hi, I'm bailey mcchesney from vanderbilt university's owen graduate school of management, and you're listening to the clear admit mba admissions podcast. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, December 1, 2025. Looking for an MBA experience where you're truly seen, supported and inspired to grow at Vanderbilt Business. You'll discover a personalized learning environment that elevates your potential and turns ambition into action. Whether you're switching careers or accelerating your current path, the Vanderbilt MBA offers a customizable curriculum, exceptional outcomes, and a community committed to your success. Propel your future with a program invested who you are and who you're becoming. Vanderbilt is waiving their $200 application fee for MBA Wiretaps listeners. To learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program and to claim your application fee waiver, Visit Business Vanderbilt. Edu ClearAdmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, December. I can't even believe it.
• 1:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, we're marching along. We're marching along.
• 1:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So what's going on, though? Because right now we just had the Thanksgiving holiday last week and all of our listeners are, I think anyone who applied in Round one is sort of probably, what, waiting for news. And so when are there any big decisions coming? Or do we still have to wait another week for most of them? Or what's going to happen here with Round One?
• 1:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, let's be real. We're recording this on Thanksgiving Day.
• 1:45
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, that aside, actually, last week we saw some activity on, on Livewire. Stern releasing decisions. London Business School.
• 1:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, I saw.
• 1:58
  Speaker B: And so forth. And, and this upcoming week, we've got several schools actually scheduled to release their Round one decisions. That's Goizada Tepper, Carol, Boston College, Carol Booth, Yale Ross, SMU Cox and Georgia Terry are amongst top schools releasing decisions. And we'll see that over then the next couple of weeks. More of the top schools are now ready to roll out those final, final decisions.
• 2:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, and I, I saw the week that. Not this week, but the one after is really crazy. I mean, there's, I think there's one day where There are several M7 schools all jammed into the same day. So it's going to be a crazy, crazy couple of weeks here. Our fingers are crossed for everyone that's waiting on news. In other news, this week's also busy from the standpoint of events. I'm going to emcee two events on Tuesday and Wednesday at noon Eastern for Masters in Management programs more for the undergrad cr, people with just like a year or two of experience who want to do a master's in management. But on Tuesday I'm going to catch up with Carnegie Mellon, Georgetown, insead, Johns Hopkins and Michigan. And on Wednesday I'm going to sit down with admissions directors from Chicago Booth, Emory, LBs, Northwestern, Kellogg and UC Irvine. So that should be fun. Alex. You know we, we also planned our next live stream which is going to be right after all these decisions come out on December 16th. So we're going to, we moved it up because of the holiday, the Christmas holiday. So we doing it pretty soon at noon Eastern on December 16th. So we'll see. Maybe we'll get some news from all these people that have been tuning in and joining us for those ask me anythings.
• 3:36
  Speaker B: Yes, very good. Best of luck to them.
• 3:39
  Speaker A: Yeah. So we have a couple of interesting articles that we've run. You know, we're still kind of waiting on schools to issue employment reports. They've been, I know Harvard just released theirs, but we're still waiting on the, you know, the vast majority of top schools to kind of get the data out on the class of 25 and where they landed. But in the meantime we've kind of revisited some of the stats we have. So we did an article about big tech hiring and you know, that sort of underlines the fact that, you know, big tech hiring had come down a bit for the class of 24. But I want to see if you remember this because I know you've read this article. What are some of the schools that send the highest percentage of their grads into tech jobs?
• 4:20
  Speaker B: Tech jobs generally. Highest percentage. Well, Tepper might come to mind.
• 4:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, they're number two.
• 4:29
  Speaker B: Number two. I got a feeling that has would be high up there. Yeah, they're number three and yeah. What's number one? I've got a feeling number one's a smaller program. I'm not calling.
• 4:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, it is, it's. So number one is Foster at University of Washington.
• 4:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, that actually, that makes sense. Yeah.
• 4:50
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean they're on the doorstep of what, you know, Microsoft and Amazon. So, so that makes sense. Right. And then the.
• 4:57
  Speaker B: Which is a double edged sword. Right?
• 4:59
  Speaker A: Right. Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 5:00
  Speaker B: Because you know, if you read any of the press lately, Microsoft and Amazon have been laying folks off in large numbers.
• 5:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 5:11
  Speaker B: So maybe Seattle is a bit of a depressed employment market currently. I don't know. And I, it'd be interesting to get the perspective of Foster's folks on what's. What what's going on and how that directly impacts. Because obviously they're heavily weighted towards tech placement and a tech experience and so forth. So, yeah, so, yeah, if there is a. If there is a shrinking in the tech sector, they're going to be quite vulnerable.
• 5:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. Although I do wonder of these, you know, when I read about some of these layoffs, it's unclear if they're sort of the MBA grad type positions or if they're other positions. I think obviously it's across the board in some regards. But, yeah, be good to find out and we'll see certainly in the upcoming career reports as they come out. The fourth school in terms of percentage is Anderson at ucla. So that makes sense.
• 6:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, I was thinking in LA school, too. So, yeah, if I'd have thought hard about it, I could have come up with that.
• 6:07
  Speaker A: All right.
• 6:07
  Speaker B: I mean, yeah, many folks would be like, well, Sloan or, you know, Wharton or whatever, but because they're larger class sizes, they have a. They. They probably send more folks into tech. But as you asked for the percentage.
• 6:25
  Speaker A: Yes. So, okay, but. But what about overall volume? If you had to give me a couple of schools that are biggest in sen. People into the tech companies, in terms of the number of students who.
• 6:34
  Speaker B: Are going, I'd probably look at Wharton.
• 6:36
  Speaker A: Yeah. So Wharton's number two, Harvard's number one, Kellogg three.
• 6:40
  Speaker B: Harvard. Yeah. And again, it's a function of. They're all M7. They're all large program.
• 6:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. And Booth is number four. So again, those are probably the four biggest MBA programs. Right. Or, you know, so that makes sense. Same thing on venture. So one thing that's interesting, we, we looked at finance and, you know, so I was kind of curious if, you know, you know, which schools send the highest percentage of their grads into finance. And this is banking, private equity, venture capital, Johnson. Yeah, they're number one. Highest percentage.
• 7:09
  Speaker B: I picked a winner.
• 7:12
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then it's interesting, after that is Harvard, Stanford, Wharton. So those are the four schools that send the highest percentage. But then again, what about by volume?
• 7:21
  Speaker B: So we're just talking finance generally or finance generally. So in terms of volume, again, then I'd start looking. Well, if you said Harvard's already. I'd look at Harvard and Wharton.
• 7:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. So Harvard's number one. Columbia is number two. Wharton.
• 7:35
  Speaker B: Three. Yeah, Columbia. Sorry. And I forgot about New York.
• 7:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. And Booth is four. Now, what's interesting, though, is you act. As you point out, you know, we looked. We sliced this differently. Looked at. Okay. Which schools send the most people by well, the most students by percentage into private equity, venture capital and investment management. Those are the more coveted roles sometimes. And that's Harvard, Stanford, Wharton. And if we look at that by volume, it's Harvard, Wharton, Columbia. So those are, you know, so there are some differences, but again, you're hearing some familiar names coming up over and over again with finance. Yeah, we also did a piece about. So London Business school hosted the 15th year out conference Euro, and that's the Europe's leading LGBTQ conference. We did a profile. There's a woman named Sheena who's a LBs MBA student, class of 27, and she was on the organizing committee. And she takes us inside that conference and, you know, just takes us through what, what it was like hosting that and everything. So that's interesting. Piece up on the site now about this conference hosted at LBs. We also posted a couple of admissions tips, Alex. One is about video essays, something that's becoming increasingly important. We talked about, you know, why schools are using these. We talked about authenticity and English language skill measurement, as well as spontaneity. So those are all things that we discuss in this article. And we also provided a video with a whole bunch of tips that you and I recorded as part of our admissions academy. That's all up on the site and free. And people should certainly watch that if they're getting ready for a video essay.
• 9:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 9:16
  Speaker A: And then the last thing we did is we did a piece about how to kind of go about doing really high quality MBA program research. So we just talk about, you know, how do you build these anecdotes and find those advocates on campus when you talk to students, alumni and faculty? So that's up on the site as well. These are relevant, I think, for people starting to work on those round two applications. So keep that in mind. We also, I don't know if this was on purpose, but Lauren shared over the last week or so three Real humans pieces where we connected with students from imd, ese, and Cambridge. So three of Europe's better MBA programs. And so I just wanted to share a couple of little nuggets from those. So we start with IMD, where we caught up with a woman named rand, and she's 35, she is from Erbil, Iraq, and she studied at the American University of Athens in pharmacy and has been working at Eli Lilly for like nine years. And so we just said, we asked her, like, what is her initial impression of the IMD kind of students, the culture, the community. And she said, IMD is super collaborative, diverse and welcoming. The best part of the program is the people, both the cohort and the faculty. There's a genuine openness to learn from each other and push one another to grow. Culture is less about competition and more about creating an environment where everyone's challenged to become a better version of themselves. One thing that surprised me is how much the program emphasizes self awareness and personal reflection throughout the year alongside academic requirements. And I've heard that over and over again, by the way, Alex, but that's. So that's Rand from IMD and sounds like she has a pretty interesting background.
• 11:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, and I love that feedback about IMDb. It's quite, it's a smaller program, right? It's quite.
• 11:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, very small.
• 11:08
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So I think with these smaller programs they can, they, they can really go after this sort of more, more sort of nuanced approach and so forth. And you know, this is an older candidate and that's, that, that's quite interesting too. I think, you know, some of these European schools tend to be more open to older candidates and agreed and so forth. And, and yeah, what, you know, they're from. Did you say Iran?
• 11:38
  Speaker A: Iraq.
• 11:39
  Speaker B: Iraq, Sorry, Yes. So, you know, again, US programs would, would love to see that sort of level of diversity that European programs tend to be able to affect.
• 11:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I love reading these. So we, we then went over to esa, which is in Barcelona, and we talked to Maria Nicole and she's also in the class of 27. And so. Well, actually I guess Rand is in the class 26 because IMD one year, whereas yesterday is a two year. So Maria Nicole is 30 and she's from. It's funny, she lists Melbourne, Australia and San Francisco, California is where she's from. So I suspect she kind of has lived in both places. She went to UC Santa Cruz, studied literature with high honors and minored in education. Okay, so for nine years pre MBA, because she's already 30, she worked, I guess she initially trained as like a teacher, but then she worked in pr, communications and content strategy for tech companies. And she, you know, we kind of asked her, well, why did you make the decision to go to business school? And she said, everything I knew about business I learned on the job. It felt like my turn to go back to school, back to the beginning, to have time to process the last decade to unlearn and relearn my foundations and find out what's on the other side. It's a privilege to return to the classroom with real work experience and real world context. Especially now. I Believe we're living in the zeitgeist. This is an interesting time in global political, technological and economic history to exchange ideas with peers and experts from over 60 countries to shape my understanding of the future of global markets. So Maria Nicole has, I mean, and no, no doubt she works in PR and communications because that is super well written.
• 13:23
  Speaker B: Yes, yeah. But also super interesting. What a great perspective. And again, it's coming from an older candidate. Not, not quite, not quite as much experience, I suppose, as our previous, but still an older candidate with lots of global perspective. I'm presuming they're originally from Australia, went over to California at some point and. And had had a significant career in California, then coming to Europe. So that's absolutely fantastic.
• 13:53
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I just want to be on the record. Maria Nicole, if you're listening, I did not say you're old, Alex did.
• 13:59
  Speaker B: Well, yeah, she's half my age, so I'm not sure I could, I could really call her old.
• 14:04
  Speaker A: No, no, I'm just joking. But. And then the last school that we touched basically with was Cambridge, so again, European MBA programs. And we caught up with Catherine who's in the judge. Class of. I guess she's going to be graduating in 26. Yeah. So she, they're, they're one year as well. She's 32. She's from somewhere called. I'm going to butcher this, Alex. Gloucester, Gloucester, Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire.
• 14:30
  Speaker B: Gloucester, Gloucester, Gloucestershire.
• 14:33
  Speaker A: Okay. And she studied, you're going to love this. Theoretical physics as an undergrad and then has a, I guess a master's in precision engineering as well and a PhD in applied physics. So she had worked as an R D engineer actually in Cambridge at a climate tech startup based in the decarbonization industry pre business school. So pretty interesting candidate Catherine is, I would say. And we asked her what would you do again as part of your application process? And she said, I would not be afraid to proudly state achievements. We're often taught to tone down how we communicate our successes, especially as women. But for me it was useful to take a step back and appreciate all I've achieved so far in my life. When writing examples of how I showed leadership or solve complex problems, I realized I had more depth of skills and experience than I initially thought. Putting these into words felt awkward at first, but listing my achievements helped boost my confidence in my application and showed the unique value I could bring to the program and my further career. So that's Catherine from Cambridge. You know, is that like sort of rock science? Yeah.
• 15:45
  Speaker B: And what an impressive background. I Mean, crikey, this, this last weekend I watched a three hour. No, no, I shouldn't exaggerate. Maybe it was a two hour podcast on the developments of fusion technology sort of in the nuclear space. I needed this candidate to interpret it for me. Yeah, it's a super interesting, interesting space and maybe that's something that they're exploring because obviously on the climate side we need free energy and that's basically what fusion technology might be able to provide in, in the sort of short to medium term, not, not certainly tomorrow.
• 16:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So anyway, I love hearing these. I know our listeners, hopefully that everyone enjoys kind of hearing these little tidbits. And obviously if you like this, you can go to the website. We profiled several students at each of these three MBA program. So you can go read more about them.
• 16:43
  Speaker B: And it's not to say that to get into a top European program you need to be a slightly older candidate who's female. It just happens that those are the ones that Graham selected for this.
• 16:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, oh yeah, sorry. No, that was totally unintentional. I often I just kind of go through and I quickly pick out ones that kind of jump out the page at me. And these all three seemed really interesting.
• 17:03
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:04
  Speaker A: So the last thing I want to talk about before we get into this week's candidates is that Harvard Business School has released their class profile for the class of 27. So I'll get into it. Right, so we've got. They had 9409 applications and that ended up yielding them 943 matriculants. So you can do the math on that as to how hard it is to get into to Harvard. Now. Last year they actually had 9,856 applications. So more than 400 more apps last year than this year and they ended up with 930 students in the class of 26. So that's kind of interesting. The class of 27 is 44% women. It was 45% last year. It's 37% international. That's up 2 percentage points from last year. Academically, the cohort remains strong. Undergraduate GPA averages, let's see, 3.76 versus 3.69. The test score medians. We have a 730 on the old GMAT and a 685 on the GMAT focus. They didn't report focus last year, but they did report the older GMAT and that was a 740. So that came down a little bit. Although we have to remember things have been shifting a bit you know, as they get more focus scores and more GRE scores. Speaking of the GRE, the median GRE score was a 328 total combined score. It was 326 last year. So that's up two points. Work experience is nearly identical. 4.9 years on average. For the class of 27, it was five years of work experience for 26. So overall, I mean, from where I sit, it looks like they continue to be pretty darn selective with a very diverse and academically strong class. But what do you think, Alex?
• 18:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, these stats are very good. Obviously you might argue slightly less applications. I mean, to me that Harvard is the bellwether for the size of the MBA application market for all schools. So if they dropped, I just think that means there were slightly less top tier candidates in the pool last year. Assuming that makes sense. One interesting statistic that you pulled out there though, Graham, is the increase in international students at 2%. I think that's absolutely fantastic. If we remember all the issues that Harvard was facing during a time which would have been heavily, a time when admissions decisions are going out and yields numbers start coming in. And can these international students come? Can they get a visa? Can they do this, that and the other? Well, kudos to them. So they seem to have navigated what was a very problematic period of time very well. And Harvard was at the center of that issue.
• 20:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, very impressive. So, yeah, so we'll see. I'll be very curious to see how these numbers look this year in terms of application volume. I know we only have, you know, first round is behind us and round two is always a big round. So we don't know yet. But I'll be curious to see how this shapes out over time. One last tidbit is that some of you may have seen that an episode of the show popped up in the feed here last week, a bonus episode that we did with UNC Kenan Flagler. I talked to the associate dean there and a current student about this program they have that's called the Vetter Dean's Fellows program. And it's. And it's basically, you know, their MBA program is a small program. I think it's about 200 students. And the Vetter Dean's Fellows is like 20 students that get put into this special program. You do have to kind of apply for it. It's when you apply to the regular mba, you just sort of have to tick a box and write an additional essay. But it's a pretty cool kind of sub program within the MBA because you get extra kind of leadership executive coaching. They take you on like an international trip that's funded to a business trip. And actually all the students in this program get some level of scholarship as well towards their mba. So anyway, it's an interesting episode, you know, where I talk to one of these students that's in the program as well as the associate dean. So check that out. It's in the feed here if you're curious. Otherwise Alex, I guess we got to get on and talk candidates unless you add anything else.
• 21:23
  Speaker B: Let's get going.
• 21:24
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. Our first candidate this week has nine schools on, on the target list. They're looking at Berkeley, Cambridge, Chicago, Harvard, INSEAD, LBs, MIT, Wharton and Stanford. They want to start school in the fall of 26 and they're thinking that they're going to get into like entrepreneurship or tech. I mean, I think initially they want to help tech companies. Maybe the entrepreneurial goals are more long term pre MBA. They've been working in strategy and operations at an AI startup. This candidate has a 695 on the GMAT. They have an 8.1 GPA out of 10. They're based in India. They have two years of work experience. They did reveal that they attended one of the IITs in India, which are the very best kind of technical institutes in that country. They want to land in California after business school. And they do mention that they started out as an architect but they've ended up in a business strategy role in an AI company. So they actually, you know, had majored in an architecture, etc. But then they, they ended up, yeah, just you know, getting involved on the side and sort of hackathons and things like that. And they joined this AI startup where they've transitioned from sort of a research role to strategy. And you know, they're only 24 but they've got some pretty interesting responsibilities that they shared. They're already, you know, of kind, kind of managing a $500,000 budget and you know, have delivered some interesting solutions, one of which was for a Fortune 500 client. So they also mentioned that despite that 695 on the GMAT focus, that they're going to take it again. They're trying to get above 700 on this test and again they, they want to post mba, try to tackle what they say even the tech giants are struggling with which is figuring out business strategy for a post AI world. So they're hoping to work in some AI startups solving some of the revenue and commercial challenges before transitioning into VC again with that focus being on AI. So Alex, you had some back and forth with this candidate so I'd love for you to shed light on anything else they're curious to know or you know, anything else they shared and what you make of their chances.
• 23:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean that goal is to, well not their, their longer term goal but their goal is to obviously get an MBA at the best school that they can as soon as they can to leverage what they've done thus far and propel them into probably a stronger ecosystem in, in Northern California, whatever it Is, for tech, AI for VC, etc. Etc. Right. So that to me is their big picture goal. But I'm a little bit concerned, I mean I'm not concerned that they're not smart enough. I mean obviously their numbers stand for themselves. Iit they've got a 695 GMAT, they're going to retake it. So they'll have a 705 or a 715, 20, whatever it is, it's going to be a great score. But, but, but, but my concern is, you know, two years of experience, they're from India and they're applying in round two. So I just, I think, you know, with the breadth of schools that they're targeting, there'll be an offer somewhere. Let's hope so. I mean they show lots of upside potential but I would be quite, quite, quite firm in thinking that if they applied in round one next season, so they've got a bit more experience under their belts, etc. Etc. They can really show that impact and growth. They can get in, in round one and so forth. I think their options at the very best schools on their list are going to start opening up. I'm just worried that by rushing to start a top tier MBA they're going to end up in a situation that isn't optimized for that. So that's my main concern. Graham. I have no doubt that this person has real good strong potential and I might be proven wrong. Maybe they will get an admitted one of the very top programs that they're targeting but I'm a bit concerned about that. But that might then make us think, okay, they should apply this season in round two but with the understanding that they might need to come back as a re applicant in round one. My concern with that strategy is they will get, they may get admissions at some of the schools they're targeting and then take those admissions and not optimize, you know, in terms of where they could, where they could be doing their mba.
• 26:16
  Speaker A: Yeah. It is an interesting case because it's a younger candidate with just a couple years of experience. I'm less concerned about their GPA. They seem a little worried about that. 8.1 out of 10. We know that the IITs are, you know, two tough programs. And you know, just by getting in to one of those programs they've kind of put themselves in this very special kind of segment of the pool. So I'm less worried about that. Obviously, if they can get better than that 695 on the GMAT, terrific. But as you point out, round two.
• 26:41
  Speaker B: The 695 is already an outstanding score. My point is a higher GMAT score is not going to compensate for less work experience.
• 26:50
  Speaker A: Right.
• 26:51
  Speaker B: They are two completely different metrics.
• 26:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And I think, you know that they're. Yeah. At the end of the day I'm also, I totally agree with you that look, they may get into some of these schools in Europe that they have on their list, for instance. Right. And then. But they want to land and work in California. So it doesn't really make a lot of sense. I mean I don't want to rain on their parade, but it's hard to go to live in California post MBA from Europe, especially if you're not an American citizen. Right. So I, Yeah. So I do worry. Now on the other hand, I'm like, wow, if they, if they were to work another year, they had some really cool outside activities, one of which was stand up comedy.
• 27:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:25
  Speaker A: Like there's some things here that really like you're saying could with some seasoning and could be a great candidates. So you know, imagine a scenario where they end up with a 7. You know, like you said, a 7:15. They've got another year of experience. They apply next fall in the first round. You could see them, you know, easily checking the box and getting into some top schools. So I, you know, I don't, but I don't blame them for trying in round two. But I'm, I am a little bit cautious here. We'll have to see how it goes for them.
• 27:52
  Speaker B: Yeah. And hopefully they prove me wrong when they get into their very best school this season. But that's my only concern.
• 27:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I will say one shout out. They have very rational kind of goals. Like I like their work experience to date and the plans they have. I just, the work experience isn't very long but the plans they have make sense and I, I understand the urgency. They want to get in. They want to get the MBA and get back into the workforce while the whole AI boom is kind of still happening. So in any event, yeah, interesting case. I wish them the best of luck in round two and we'll see where the chips fall.
• 28:22
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 28:23
  Speaker A: All right, let's move on and talk about Wiretaps. Candidate number two, our second candidate this week is applying to 10 schools. They've got Berkeley Booth, Columbia, Duke, Harvard, Minnesota, Carlson, mit, Kellogg, Wharton and Stanford on the list. But they're not applying now. They're looking to start in the fall of 27 so they've got another year where they can work on their profile. They've been working in IT security with the local government. They're US based. They are thinking about entrepreneurship, tech and maybe even VC in the longer term. Post MBA they have a whopping 755 on the GMAT and that is like, you know, the equivalent to like a perfect score on the old exam. They have a 3,0 undergraduate GPA which is a weak point. Two and a half years of work experience to date. They studied undergrad at Minnesota, Carlson in the business, business school there, Management Information Systems where they have that 3.0 GPA. They mentioned that the GPA is low and they think that their work experience is mediocre at best, but they're hoping that the GMAT score will compensate. So you had some dialogue with this candidate as well Alex, but what do you make of this situation?
• 29:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean just take that phrase that you just stated, like mediocre work experience, a lower gpa. Will the GMAT compensate? Probably not at the very top schools. Right. The GMAT will help compensate the 3.0 GPA. Right. But not the shorter or as they qualify, mediocre work experience. So you know, obviously expressing some context around the 3.0 GPA would be good, but to get a 755 GMAT, clearly they're super smart, so that's not going to be the problem. But typically if you've got a really strong test score and a very mediocre gpa, then it's all about academic commitment. Are you committed to the academics? Because clearly you can do it when you put the effort in and so forth. I'm not as convinced that the work experience is mediocre. However, I think you know, they're working in cyber security which is becoming a more and more important field. As again if you read any of the tech press you would, you listeners would know that they're also very interested in AI safety, which again, I mean I was reading an Article this morning about how open AI is in a legal wrangle with, with parents of a kid who committed suicide because, you know, the chat GPT them on how to do it right. So these AI safety is super, super important. So these are really interesting topic areas that, you know, and they're going to be working for another year before they apply. So they continue to sort of develop this sort of set of really interesting expertise. I think that's going to be super important. You didn't mention that their passion outside of work is esports.
• 31:47
  Speaker A: Oh, that's right, yeah.
• 31:48
  Speaker B: In their case it's Pokemon, which I still haven't got my head around really what Pokemon is. But nevertheless they've gone to and participated in world championships over several years. And I just think, you know, whether it's sports or esports, if you're, if you are participating at the very top level, that says something really interesting about you and so forth. So I, I quite frankly think there's a lot to like about this candidate for next season. This 3o GPA is going to need to be sorted out or context provided. But yeah, kudos for them for getting the 755 GMAT. They had a question about letters of recommendation. They can't get a joint recommendation from the board. All recommendations need to come from individual folks. So yeah, just throw that out there. But ye, quite frankly, Graham, aside from the 3.0 GPA, I think we've got a strong profile here.
• 32:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, I, I agree. I mean, I think, you know, the fact that they've got another year to work on this, I would probably recommend that they do something like, you know, take a class or two, whether it's, I mean, I know they have a great GMAT score, but taking a class or two in their spare time, it could be online, it could be some of these extension schools that universities offer. We would just, if they could build like an alternative transcript with some A's, that would be a good sign to sort of, you know, send the admissions committee to compensate for that low gpa. But yeah, I agree, you know, interesting hobbies, World championships with Pokemen, tcg. Not sure what exactly that is. I mean, I know what Pokemon is, but it must be some kind of a game within Pokemon. But in any event, yeah, and I think you raised that really important issue with the board of managers. I guess they report to a board of managers and they're like, oh, maybe the whole board could write me a letter. But no, as you point out, it's got to be an individual. But yeah, there's a lot to like here. I think they just need to, you know, they have time to work on some of these issues that they've got and get their ducks in a row to be very successful as they apply next fall to start the following.
• 33:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:56
  Speaker A: All right, so I want to thank them for sharing their profile and. Yeah, don't. I feel like, you know, you mentioned me before we came on air. Sometimes people underestimate themselves and I do feel like, you know, they shouldn't refer to their work experience as mediocre at best. I think they can, you know, play it up and stuff. So in any event, we'll see how that goes for them. Let's move on and talk.
• 34:13
  Speaker B: I think that that's typical, typical though of a candidate coming out of a very good university but not one of the ivies or whatever and you know, going into a career that's not, you know, management consulting. Fine, whatever. Right. So. So they think that they're sort of on the back foot from the get go. And the answer to that is you, you could still do great work. Right. And still show the two things that I always focus on is growth and impact. So, so, so, yeah. Anyway, I'd go off on a tangent. I think this candidate, like you said, is underselling themselves. They do have to overcome this 3.0 GPA.
• 34:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I want to wish them the best of luck. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. Three. So our third candidate actually comes not from Apply Wire but from Decision Wire. We've got someone who applied to Carnegie Mellon, Tepper and Kellogg's one year MBA offerings, these kind of accelerated programs. And they got into all three. They actually were offered some financial aid at each of the schools. So at Tepper they've got a 52,500 hundred dollar scholarship. Emory they've got 75,000 and at Kellogg a 15,000 dollar scholarship. They want to get into consulting after business school. They're located in India, in case you're curious. They have a 665 on the GMAT and they state, I'm an international applicant. Five years of consulting experience and that's their first preference post mba. So get into consultation consulting or stay, I guess in consulting. They said given the current job market slowdown and financial considerations, they're struggling to decide between these three one year MBA programs. Tepper's Accelerated Path offers the option to pursue an internship, extending the program to 16 months, otherwise it's 12. So yeah. So what do you make of this, Alex? Oh, one other key, sorry, key tidbit is that they have a partner that they've applied for with who also got an admit to Tepper's one year program but presumably doesn't have offers at the other schools. So. Yeah, how do you decide on this?
• 36:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it's difficult, isn't it? Because there are two sort of driving influences to this final decision. The first is, partner aside, where would you go? Right, Tepper versus Goizada versus Kellogg. You want to get into consulting. I mean all three programs provide you a pathway to consult, there's no doubt about that. But you know, Kellogg is in the higher tier. Kellogg is known for consulting placement and so on and so forth. So you would have to think that Kellogg leads the way here. Scholarship aside, there's a little scholarship differential, but that's reflective of the tiers. But these are Kellogg's basically two tiers above Tapa and Goizada. Right. So I would place Tapa and Goizada in that sort of top 20 tier and Kellogg is in the M7 tier. So, so, so there is a significant difference here that tilts to me quite clearly towards Kellogg. But then your partner is going to tap them. So the importance of doing your MBA with your partner, significant. Right. So to me it's clearly going to be between Tapa and Kellogg in this case, even though Goizada is great for consulting placement and you know, they're going to have to think long and hard about the, the opportunities of doing their MBA together versus some of the, the challenges of doing an MBA across two different cities, Pittsburgh and Chicago, which I assume are reasonably accessible to each other. But you know, I don't absolutely know. But yeah, it's not a straightforward answer I think. Graham.
• 38:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, so I was very proud of myself because I took a very scientific approach to this and I said, okay, let's look at placements and rank the schools in order and we'll give them points. Like if you came in first place, you get three points, second place, two third place, one point. Right. So I was like, okay, placement Kellogg, then Emory, then Tepper for consulting placements. Right. And I was like, oh, what about money? How much money have they been given? Well, Emory comes in first, they're giving the biggest scholarship, then Tepper, then Kellogg and then what about the partner? Well, Tepper would be first, then Kellogg because as you say, Pittsburgh to Chicago is probably easier and then Emory coming in last there. So then I tallied it up and it turns out that each school gets six Points. So my mathematical approach to this was a complete waste of time because, you know, depending on how you look at it, you get these different outcomes comes.
• 39:18
  Speaker B: But in any event, you didn't look at prestige like rankings. So if you lay that on top, then Kellogg wins.
• 39:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, so if we add a thing for prestige, we'd probably go Kellogg, Tepper, Emery in terms of typical rankings that we see, you know, across the years. And. And that would probably then put things into the Kellogg court. But obviously this person needs to decide, you know, how important is it to have that year in the same city as their partner? And that may trump everything. I mean, those are important things, right? You can't dispute that.
• 39:48
  Speaker B: But there are advantages of being in two cities, right? So one, you focus a bit more on your studies and networking directly with the. With your classmates rather than with each other. You've now got two alum networks to tap into versus one, etc. Etc. So it's not all absolutely in favor of studying in the same city. So just bear that in mind to.
• 40:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, I like the idea of two different networks and no distractions. Just focus on your studies. So, yeah, I mean it really. This is not an easy call. I mean, obviously the financial issue is one.
• 40:28
  Speaker B: And regret, there's another one. I know he focuses a lot on regret. It's like the idea that if you go to Tepper with your partner, would you have a sort of sideways look and say, well, what would have happened if I'd have gone to catch dialogue?
• 40:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's fair.
• 40:47
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 40:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. So anyway, I want to congratulate this person on getting into all three programs and getting. And getting money at all three, so. But best of luck as they try to make this decision. I don't know if we've muddied the waters or helped them, but. But hopefully this helps a little bit. Alex, we gotta run. It's. As you pointed out, we're recording on Thanksgiving and we all got things to do, so let's. Let's put this one in the books and I'll connect with you next week and we'll be back for everybody.
• 41:12
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe everyone. Take care.
• 41:32
  Speaker A: Of.