Latest / DuckFellas Podcast / Coal Creek Collapse and Surprising State Duck Numbers - DuckFellas Ep. 30

Transcript

Coal Creek Collapse and Surprising State Duck Numbers - DuckFellas Ep. 30 · DuckFellas Podcast

3:01
Welcome back to the Duckfellas Podcast, episode 30.
3:06
Today, it's just hosted again by Zach and myself.
3:10
Seeing a common theme here. Ah, man, I tell you what, those two are always just too busy.
3:16
Oh, yeah, we got so much shit going on.
3:20
Well, while you're here and tuned in, make sure you are hitting that like,
3:25
follow, subscribe button, all of the above, and possibly even share.
3:30
While you're here. We would greatly appreciate it and help us grow this podcast.
3:34
Not even really possibly. Just do it. You don't have a choice. Do it.
3:39
Help a guy out, you know? All right. All right. Just a fellow guy.
3:44
Well, how was your 4th of July, Zach? Oh, you know, pretty busy.
3:49
Just running around different places, different things, different people. You know how it'd be?
3:56
You still got all A to your fingers and the other two three-quarter ones good
4:00
dude right there baby so got the main one.
4:05
What'd you guys do on saturday night oh saturday well afternoon we kind of went
4:10
over to uh well not kind of we did go over to a friend's house got in the pool a little bit,
4:15
hung out there and i saw a few guys and we haven't seen for quite a while so
4:19
we're gonna catch up a little bit then saturday night,
4:22
convenience was key we had some friends that live they have a farm three minutes
4:26
from our house we went over there to wash the fireworks and have a couple adult
4:30
sodas beers yeah yep barley pops laughing.
4:37
What did you do? I went out in the lake Saturday, went and did some updates
4:43
and pulled some markers that we have out there that needed to be pulled and redone.
4:47
They looked a little deep.
4:51
Well, it's not that they were deep. It's that they broke off,
4:54
which happens pretty much every year in the deeper spots.
4:57
The ice will shear them right off at water level. Oh, yeah.
5:01
But got what I could pulled out to update and fix and deploy back out this fall for this winter.
5:09
And then Saturday, I went and watched our old boy Cade race,
5:13
and he had a good weekend. He had a good weekend.
5:16
Did he? Where did he finish? I missed it.
5:19
He ended up finishing fourth. He was in third for, I'd say, over half the race,
5:24
but he just had a couple slip-ups here and there and got passed.
5:28
But he did get fourth, and Tasker finished ninth, I think, which is who he's in the points race with.
5:35
So he gained 44 points on him. So he's only, I think, 40 points out,
5:41
which is, I mean, that's still one weekend away taking the lead again.
5:46
Good. Atta boy, Katie, for listening. Good job. Even though you should be here
5:50
so we can talk to you in person, but whatever.
5:53
Maybe one day. Maybe after race season's over, he'll be back.
5:56
I think I almost forgot what he looks like.
5:58
Unfortunately, I still see him every time I go home, so I have not.
6:02
But now that you live like 14 hours away, we don't see you as often. Hey, guy.
6:08
I'm looking off my deck right now, and I can't see another house,
6:10
so it was worth it for me. Yeah, can't complain there.
6:15
Well but yeah let's let's jump in here a little bit uh updates if you will a
6:21
little news what do you that's what you want to call it right i'm no weatherman
6:25
but i'll give you the news,
6:27
let's hear it yeah so i'm gonna let you take this part just because you were
6:31
the one actually on the lake so i want you to talk first what a lazy dude i
6:36
wasn't on the leg it's people that's like,
6:39
because if i get something wrong you're gonna call me out in front of everybody
6:41
and i don't list to it i'm gonna call you out regardless on this episode at
6:44
some point in time well fair.
6:47
Well so saturday obviously i was out on the lake and i went up to our our favorite
6:52
area to hunt boxcar up there at lake red rock,
6:55
and pulled those markers out did a few things and then went on a little adventure
6:59
to kind of see what's going on and it's all the rain we've gotten lately the
7:03
water's up high enough where you can you can navigate everywhere it's pretty much,
7:08
it's about winter pool right now for full pool.
7:12
I figured it was up there a little bit with what we've got around here.
7:15
Yeah, yeah. I will say, you know, even with the up and down year,
7:19
like our water's been anywhere from like four or five feet high to back at normal
7:25
for summertime. It's been up and down and we're having some good willow growth.
7:31
Definitely have some decent grass growing, but right now that's going to stunt
7:35
all of that, hopefully not kill it with us coming up probably another foot and
7:39
a half from where it was on Saturday without any more rain. Right.
7:44
But the biggest thing is what I've seen while I was out there,
7:48
which is pretty sad and sickening, honestly, for what the DNR did here. I'll pull up a picture.
7:57
This winter, they sprayed a very large amount of our willows,
8:02
which is our primary cover.
8:05
And if you can see this picture here, I mean, there's just nothing that's growing
8:09
there. I mean, there's a little bit of grass, but what's our plan here with all these dead willows?
8:13
We're just going to wait for him to crumble away and wash away.
8:17
I mean, I can't, I, I, I don't know. Right. Cause I can't, I don't know.
8:20
The DNR can't speak for him, but I don't see them able to argue if it's feasible
8:26
for them to go out and pull all those dead wills, you know, I'm assuming it'll,
8:29
just let them die off and float down.
8:32
Yeah. But I mean, you know how long, you know how long that's going to take
8:35
and the only way to do it and get it cleared out within a timely manner would
8:38
be to go out through the dozer. Yeah.
8:41
I mean, they're not going to do any of that. So I wouldn't think, right?
8:44
I mean, like you said, they're going to have to be able to present that in a
8:47
way that it's feasible or makes sense for them to do it. Whereas,
8:51
you know, the other side or the devil's advocate, if you will,
8:53
is going to argue that it's natural. So let it just break down and do what it's doing.
8:58
Do I like it? No, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate on what you think
9:02
is going to happen in those conversations, right?
9:04
Right. I mean, it's just crazy. Here's another picture from a different perspective, I'll add.
9:11
And it's It's all the same You know both sides Even on the left side Of the
9:16
picture here Very dead You know The only thing that's growing Is a little bit of shrubs And grass.
9:23
You know, our DNR says they don't like the willows because it's taken away from,
9:28
the natural cover, like from being able to put millitin or cattails or smartweed,
9:34
you know, all that kind of stuff, which is great for ducks.
9:38
And I love that they want to do something about it, but now it's time to do
9:41
the second half of that argument.
9:43
Right. So here's my deal. They're not going in there cleaning them up.
9:47
They're just going to sit there and rot, right? You're not going to get,
9:50
any more grass than what you would have if you just let the willows grow and
9:53
then spray the edges to contain them in order to clean it up to where you can
9:58
get grass to grow all the way up to those willows, the thick willows, and do what you want.
10:02
But then on high water years where you don't get any grass to grow,
10:06
like we've had a couple years here, you've still got something to hide in.
10:10
Yeah. I mean, obviously, I'm trying to look at it from both sides.
10:14
You've got to bet on the animal, but they're not going to have anywhere it is.
10:19
Again it circles back to is this a five-year plan,
10:24
i haven't i haven't talked to anybody the dnr so i'd like to get that conversation
10:27
but is it is it a three years and a five years and a next year this year what's
10:31
the thought process on we're gonna kill it off we're gonna plant but,
10:35
are we waiting until everything's dead and rotten are we i mean if it's dead
10:39
right we should be able to i don't want to i don't want to say overseed it but
10:43
essentially right seed it where it can grow,
10:46
but yeah otherwise it's going to make for a tough couple years probably.
10:50
For ducks and for boats I agree containing willows and keeping them from overgrowing
10:57
that by all means makes sense,
11:00
but doesn't make sense to me to kill off all of them and not just for waterfowl
11:04
hunting but it also having those willows there at the mouth of the lake will help,
11:08
control the sediment going down the lake right and I think we all know that
11:14
the lake's got a real problem with that anyway Well, any man-made lake is going to have that.
11:19
No matter who does it, it's going to have that problem. Man-made reservoir.
11:23
Whatever. Same, same. I don't know.
11:28
It's just tragic to see them do just...
11:31
I'd like to hear their game plan. Last I talked to Todd about it.
11:36
Their game plan was just spray them and then have natural grass grow,
11:39
which sounds great, but what are you going to do with those dead willows for the next 10 years?
11:43
Yep. Like I said, I mean, I can't imagine they're going to take anything in
11:47
there and try to clear them, so we're just going to have a real brown,
11:51
sparse hide for a couple years, I guess.
11:54
I mean, the hide will be there still, right? Like, those dead willows are still going to be huntable.
12:00
You'll be able to pull up in them or hide your mow marsh or just stand in them and hunt out of them.
12:05
Like it's not like you can't hide in them still it's just I don't understand
12:09
our whole process here on that really just need more some more context maybe
12:13
there's a bigger plan if there is we should get in touch with Todd and talk about it,
12:18
yeah yeah there was something else I was gonna have you talk about here but
12:22
I can't remember what the frick it was now good at that I mean if it was what
12:27
we were talking about before the show started I don't feel comfortable sharing
12:29
out with a lot of people I don't even know what that was.
12:35
No it was it was something dang it i can't remember it is what it is we'll move
12:40
on maybe i'll think of it yeah if it comes up let me know yeah,
12:45
moving on i mean it's very good to move on i'll kind of get into some some of
12:48
these waterfell numbers we were talking about and do it all right let's let
12:52
it rip start off with iowa right that's just it's where we're based that's where we call home so,
12:58
iowa total duck harvest we did
13:00
what did we do 2004 2024 right so 20 year split yep 2004 there's 184 500,
13:09
birds killed with 54 700 of those of being tyler's favorite the mallard the
13:15
milardo telling when it matters jesus,
13:19
And if you skip forward 20 years, 2024, $152,700 with only $25,200 of those being Mallardos.
13:29
So you're talking a $30,000 difference and total bird numbers,
13:34
right? And about half of what the Mallards were 20 years ago.
13:39
What are you doing? Like you playing the drums on your table right now or what?
13:42
No, I was fidgeting. I'm sorry.
13:46
You know that's that's it's really not that big until before we get to this
13:50
next number that's really not that crazy of a drop on total birds you know it
13:55
kind of coincides with duck numbers compared to back then to now,
14:00
the mallard is a really crazy change i think that's i mean that's like like
14:04
we just said 50 drop wild right right the yeah the mallard is a kind of an alarming,
14:10
The 30,000 difference, I mean, that could fluctuate so much year to year based
14:16
on the number of hunters, you know, habitat loss, stuff like that.
14:19
And it can jump right back and be back up there in the 180 next year,
14:23
this fall. You know, it's all depending.
14:25
Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, like I said, it's not that big of a difference until
14:30
you hear this next number of active duck hunters.
14:34
Yeah so in 2024 there's a 11 500 total active duck hunters and 20 years ago there was 20 400 which,
14:44
is wild to me just based on what i've seen the past few years and the growth
14:50
that we've seen in the in the lake around us right and how many boats we see out,
14:54
it seems like that number increases every year granted 20 years ago i'm sure
14:58
it was completely different on on lake access boat you who's got access to a
15:03
boat or anything like that.
15:06
Yeah, but one thing, like, I was talking to August on Wednesday or Thursday on my drive home,
15:13
and we were talking about this, and, like, I hadn't really dove deep into the
15:17
numbers, but, like, he was talking about, he's hunted Red Rock and Boxcar since he was little.
15:23
And he said the same thing that we see. It's like, it just, there is way more
15:27
people that hunt there now than there ever used to be, like,
15:30
to double as many, like, even during the week is busy there. Right.
15:37
It's hard to believe that number is, we have half the duck hunters,
15:41
but twice the traffic in our areas.
15:44
Right. And that's, and I don't know, you think it's, is it habitat loss?
15:49
Is it accessibility? Is it an access thing?
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Like now we're able to, we got a little more access than they used to back then.
15:57
And it was, you know, half of the half, right?
16:02
So 5000 in 2004 only hunted private ponds, only hunted these farms that now
16:09
are being sold or these wet, you know, we still have these wetlands and then
16:12
they get drained and tiled and put into crop or,
16:15
or CRP or anything like that.
16:17
Right. So is it just a combination of a couple of things and.
16:22
I think habitat loss does play a good part of it, and not just habitat loss,
16:27
but accessible land when it comes to private or public, because it is way harder
16:32
to get permission to hunt private ground nowadays than it ever used to be.
16:36
Absolutely. That's also where it comes into play.
16:39
Like, it's hard to believe we have less hunters now than we did then when it
16:44
seems like everywhere you go, the farmer says either his son hunts,
16:48
he hunts, or his brother's sister-in-law's cousin's first niece hunts. Right. You know?
16:55
Well. It's one of those things. I mean, that's a rough one, right?
17:00
That can be a rabbit hole because I think there's a difference in saying you
17:02
hunt and actually hunt. Right.
17:04
Well, there's that. But yes, I...
17:08
I don't know, you know, it's, it's interesting, especially if you look at these
17:11
numbers on paper, right?
17:12
It's kind of a mind fuck on, you're trying to look and you're seeing more,
17:17
you know, less mallards, just a few less birds, half the hunter,
17:22
twice the hunters 20 years ago.
17:24
And I don't know, but then if you look at it and say, you know,
17:28
they had, we have half the hunters, essentially half this year or 2024 than we do in 2004.
17:35
Yet in 2004 nine ducks a hunter compared to 13 and a half or 13.3 ducks a hunter in 2024 right so,
17:45
so why do you think that would be is it just the hunters that are out there
17:48
now are just better than they used to be or is it that we have more ducks coming
17:52
through iowa and if we still had you know 20 000 active hunters would we would we be,
17:58
in the realm of like missouri and arkansas and these other states that,
18:02
are pumping way bigger numbers out than we do.
18:04
I mean, every state that we have on our list to go through this evening is way higher than Iowa.
18:09
Yeah, I mean, I think we've talked about it before. I think Iowa,
18:13
I mean, there's definitely guys, there's getting to be more people that travel
18:15
here to do that, but I think Iowa's still kind of one of those sleeper states.
18:19
You know, you want to talk about, it could be a whole other rabbit hole of flyaway
18:23
patterns and shifting and what causes it, right?
18:27
But I do think that there's a, over the past 20 years, you've seen a little
18:31
shift in that flyway to where Iowa's getting a little more birds still kind
18:37
of a sleeper state What do you think's causing that shift?
18:41
You already know my thoughts on it,
18:44
Everybody here knows what we, we could go down that rabbit hole, but.
18:48
But you know, it's what, what, what can Iowa do to, you know,
18:52
try and entice more people to come hunt in our state? Cause you know,
18:55
in all honesty, 11,000 waterfowl hunters in Iowa is not very many for as big of a state we are.
19:01
It, it sounds like a big number, but it's, it's really not. And that's not very
19:05
much money that comes back to the DNR just from those stamps.
19:10
It's not. And I think, I mean, you could go into season splits,
19:15
zone splits, where we're current, you know what I mean? And you get,
19:18
cause you do get those guys that not just Iowa, but they'll start in Minnesota,
19:21
and work all the way down through the States.
19:24
While you get to a certain portion of Iowa, you're like, well,
19:26
shit, I'm kind of split with this lake or this lake, both great lakes, right?
19:32
For waterfowl. But now, now it's just, all right, I'm gonna hunt here for a
19:36
few days. I'm gonna skip straight down to Missouri.
19:37
Whether that's season date change, zone change, whatever that might be.
19:42
Yeah, but, I mean, think about all the people that pass through or pass right
19:48
by Iowa going to South Dakota, North Dakota, Minnesota. You know,
19:53
those are three destination states that people go to waterfowl hunt.
19:57
And they pass right through here. And, you know, I'm not saying we have some
20:01
of the best waterfowl hunting, but we do have good waterfowl hunting to a point.
20:05
You know, there's some other variables that go into it, whether it's our season
20:08
dates and just weather and all that stuff and accessible area.
20:13
But I mean, I just wish there was something we could do to try and entice more
20:17
people to come here. Like, I'm all about having freedom out there and not have
20:22
to worry about a bunch of people, but it's inevitable. We have a bunch of people regardless.
20:25
Might as well just get more people to come to the States. so we have more money
20:29
to do projects like the Coal Creek project that we've talked about earlier this
20:34
year which that was what I was wanting to ask you about,
20:38
So we could get, we could give a little detail on the cold creep project here.
20:40
Well, let's, let's, let's finish up the Iowa talk here and we'll kind of bump into that.
20:46
Yeah. You know, and I don't know if it's just, or like I said,
20:50
if it's a little bit of a flyaway shift and people, a lot of people haven't
20:55
realized it, you know, so they're still about,
20:58
you know, I don't want to, I
20:59
don't, obviously I'm going to say like the prairie pothole region. Right.
21:03
But when you think of that, at least when I think of it or always used to think
21:06
of it, it was the Dakotas.
21:08
Like, they've just, and I think a lot of it is habitat. Look at,
21:12
look at the CRP and the native grasses and the water that they carry all year round.
21:17
You know, that might get low, but they have those areas that will consistently
21:20
fill back up and still have that cover.
21:23
Well, yeah, I mean, look at Iowa now. Look at all the drain tile here.
21:26
I mean, it's happening everywhere. The drain tile is killing these wetlands.
21:32
And that could be why there's a big drop in hunter numbers.
21:35
Look at the drain tile totals or drain tile map back in 2004 compared to 2024.
21:40
Right, and that's, you know, that all falls back to, like, we've always been
21:44
a heavy, heavy deer state versus a waterfowl state, right?
21:48
But it all comes back to getting these legislators and talking about,
21:52
you know whether it's wetlands like yeah we have a wetland program that you
21:56
can put things in wetlands but a lot of guys are going to shy away from that
21:59
if i don't know where the numbers are at but if the numbers aren't there they're going to shy away from it,
22:03
look at crp you know if the numbers aren't there and so and so is going to offer
22:07
more to farm you're going to do that right you got to do what's best for your
22:10
family what helps you survive,
22:12
not blame the guy there look at buffer strips you know stuff like that that's
22:16
not it's going to help not pollute the water Well, we can't even get that bill
22:20
passed, and that should be a no-brainer.
22:21
Pay the farmers to leave a buffer strip and help the habitat.
22:25
Same with wetlands, same with IWIL, same with all these other government-funded
22:30
or sportsman-funded programs.
22:33
100%. I mean, there's a lot of things that certain people in Iowa have tried
22:38
to get done in this state and just were sitting at a standstill fighting over
22:43
little piddly details or something stupid they wanted added in.
22:47
You know, just the way politics work.
22:50
There's a very big insurance company that wants less animals,
22:55
which, again, I'm not trying to dog on somebody for trying to do what's best
22:59
for them or their company, but makes it really hard for, what do we say?
23:04
Makes it really hard for 11,500 outdoorsmen or duck hunters to fight FB insurance, you know? Right, right.
23:14
It is what it is. What do you do? Just keep fighting the good fight, brother.
23:18
Right. Just keep trying. Yeah. I mean, at least, at least I will say,
23:22
we'll kind of lead into the Coal Creek deal with this, this talk here.
23:26
I mean, at least our state is, or our DNR, I should say, is trying to do stuff
23:33
to improve our quality of hunting and add things. You know what?
23:37
They might not always do the right thing that we all think is the right thing,
23:40
I should say, but they do try to improve the hunting.
23:44
Because the better the hunting is, the more money they're going to be allocated
23:47
every year to make improvements.
23:49
And the more hunters, the more money we get to improve the quality of hunting.
23:52
So there's a lot of variables that they're doing, but also limited.
23:58
Why don't you tell us a little bit about this Coal Creek project that we've
24:01
all been super excited about and now kind of sad about?
24:05
Yeah, yeah, it's a little bit of heartburn, right? So I know we talked about
24:10
it and getting obviously some more public access to duck hunters and it was
24:15
going to be non-motorized or you had to have an electric motor, you know.
24:20
But it was going to be just a little more access for the guys that can't swing
24:24
the boat or can't or don't have guys that have a boat and get out in those big
24:28
lakes. But it was going to be a really cool project until we got a lot of rain.
24:32
Yeah, there's been some damage to Coal Creek. So, yeah, they're talking.
24:37
God, I got the numbers here from somebody. Yeah, so they're talking close to 60K in damages.
24:43
So, yeah, we got to talk. There's some talks between Delta and Iowa Sportsman's
24:49
Club and DNR, obviously.
24:51
You know, he's put a bladder dam in there or whatever, but yeah,
24:53
it's going to have to be the, the original dam or levee they put in is gone.
24:57
They're going to have to do that. They've got a bunch of, of debris piled up
25:01
against the bridge there.
25:02
They're gonna have to get that out. So we went from, it's kind of like working on a vehicle, right?
25:07
And you're like, Oh, I'm just going to fix this real quick. And then 10 hours
25:11
later, you're like, what in the hell? I still have all this shit to do.
25:14
So tear one thing apart. Then you tear up everything. You got to fix it all. Yeah.
25:21
So yeah i mean we're trying to now we're actively trying to figure out what we can do there,
25:25
what kind of funds we can raise for that because we do it's something that we
25:28
were hoping to get done for this fall it's not going to be it's now it's a you
25:31
know two maybe three-year project because we're gonna have to redo it right
25:34
and add a add a bladder dam or or you know,
25:39
engineers have to figure their their stuff out on that side it's really disappointing
25:43
because honestly we need the we need the wetlands we need the area for the ducks
25:47
to help because we are i do feel like we're holding
25:50
more and more ducks again as well as the habitats getting better yeah um.
25:55
It was looking to be an awesome opportunity for all waterfowl hunters that whether
26:00
they're residents or non-residents to come hunt.
26:03
But there's just, I think, I think there was a couple lapses in that where they
26:09
kind of miss some stuff and may or may not have gone a little cheaper on certain
26:13
things because they just didn't have the funding, you know?
26:15
And I think they found out the hard way that going the cheaper way didn't work.
26:21
Right. You know, I don't know if it was because I wasn't involved in those talks.
26:25
I don't know if it was a money thing or if it was, oh, this isn't going to be
26:29
like, well, this is only going to hold X number of water, you know, X cubic feet of water.
26:34
We don't need that much. And all of a sudden we do get one of those heavy,
26:36
the goalie washer range. I'm like, oh, shit, this is just triple, you know.
26:42
Right. And I'm not, I'm not dogging on them. I'm just saying like they're held to a budget.
26:47
So, I mean, not that they didn't try to do it 100% right and that they didn't
26:51
do it 100% right. But maybe because they were limited on funds,
26:56
they skimped on certain areas that, you know, just didn't work out.
26:59
You know, we all roll the dice at some point.
27:02
That's, you know, $2 hooker always leaves you with more bills.
27:05
Oh, my God. Yeah, no, that's what I've heard.
27:10
I heard that from Cade, actually. You know, that does not surprise me.
27:14
But all in all, hopefully they get that figured out.
27:19
Like you said I don't think it's going to happen This year with the The rain
27:22
we've been getting And they just got to go back And,
27:25
Replan I do think it would be possible If If they put All their cards on the
27:30
table To fix it For this year I think they could have it done By the end of
27:33
August And start filling it up Not going to happen No,
27:37
It's going to take at least till duck season form to decide how much money to
27:41
allocate. That's how the government works.
27:43
Yeah. You got to meet on it, vote on it, meet on it, vote on it, meet on it, vote on it.
27:47
Then maybe we'll talk about it. So to everybody that was looking forward to
27:50
hunting Coles Creek, keep looking forward to it, probably for another year or so.
27:55
It should happen. Everybody out there waiting. Keep waiting. It should happen.
28:00
There is a parking lot there, though. If you like to deer hunt,
28:03
I would imagine, I mean, it's still public ground.
28:06
So yeah or take pictures of grass yeah there's some great grass down there right
28:12
now whatever you're into really yeah don't do drugs in the parking lot,
28:17
yeah highly frowned upon don't do it kind of illegal if you get caught DNR will
28:22
write you a ticket yeah or like the state cops,
28:27
I know those guys real pricks.
28:32
Well so let's I got four states in here that we want to go through to kind of
28:37
like check the differences across the Mississippi Flyway and then one of the
28:42
states here is in the Central Flyway, which,
28:47
it's not a part of the Mississippi Flyway, but it essentially is because we
28:49
get most of our birds from through that area. Yep.
28:54
If there's another state that we don't talk about here, just list a state that
28:58
you want a number on or if you want us to go into more detail of what species
29:05
was killed more, let us know in the comments here as we dive into this now.
29:11
We'll start with North Dakota. That's the one that's in Central Flyway,
29:14
but that is where a lot of our ducks come through, whether it's from or through. Nice Northwest winds.
29:22
Hard to beat, Especially when they get about a foot of snow up there on a northwest
29:26
wind and we're right at that snow line.
29:29
That's good times. Talk about, that's a dream hunt in the making.
29:34
I hit it just right about seven years ago, I think it was.
29:39
But we were supposed to go to North Dakota and they got, I think they got a foot and a half of snow.
29:45
And it came all the way down through South Dakota and I went to my favorite
29:48
spot and we hit it perfectly. It was unreal that year.
29:52
We had a couple times this year we thought we were going to hit it just right
29:55
with just kind of some weather patterns, but never really panned out perfect.
29:58
We had some really bangers, but never really quite turned out perfect like we thought.
30:02
No, Mother Nature's a real bitch sometime. She is. Anywho, numbers in North Dakota.
30:08
2004, there was 541,900 total duck harvest and there was a total active duck
30:18
hunters of 36,900 which is, sounds like a ton,
30:24
It does but Jesus.
30:28
We didn't do the math here,
30:30
but I'm going to do the math real quick While you're doing the math I'm going to move on to 2024,
30:35
and that is 620,800 total duck harvest so it's gone up you know 80,000 roughly,
30:42
and then total active duck hunters of 41,300,
30:46
on that which makes sense because I feel like there's more duck hunters than
30:52
that up there when I go up there it's insane how many people are there.
30:57
So put it in perspective, 2004, they were averaging 14 and a half,
31:04
just over 14 and a half birds a hunter.
31:07
2024, they averaged 15.03 birds a hunter. So they're staying consistent. Right.
31:17
Which is honestly surprising to me because I feel like when I go up there,
31:21
it's, I mean, I guess I still kill birds when I go, but it is, it's harder.
31:26
You got to put in a lot more work than you did even just 10 years ago. Right. Right.
31:31
I don't know. It's that North Dakota is a tricky state nowadays.
31:34
It's, it's difficult to hunt compared to what it was 10, 10 years ago.
31:38
And I could only imagine how easy it was 20 years ago. It was not there at that point in time.
31:43
Right. And it's, you know, I think about that, the increase of,
31:46
what is that? 5,000, right?
31:49
Close, roughly 5,000 hunters increase. It makes you wonder.
31:54
Again, not to go down another rabbit hole, but if it makes you wonder ethically,
31:59
what percentage is that 36,900 in 2004 versus 41,003 in 2024?
32:10
Like ethically, have we went down? because you notice, you know,
32:13
I talked to a few guys and it's like, well, no, I don't let anybody hunt that field no more.
32:18
The last guys went through and tore it up and left a bunch of shit and trash and everything else.
32:22
And it's like, what could those numbers be today? Would it even be higher if,
32:27
we were, you know what I mean?
32:28
We, we treated the land right, treated the landowners right versus the opposite.
32:33
Yeah. I mean, we've talked about that in previous podcasts before about just
32:38
treating the land as your own.
32:40
And it seems like we say that a lot, but it's so true because there's so many
32:46
people, not just young kids either. I mean, it goes up to older people too.
32:50
I know some real pieces of shit that are in their 50s.
32:55
Well, it's not that, but some people just don't treat it as their own.
32:59
They just do whatever they want. And maybe you're a word of me wrong.
33:03
Don't treat it like it's your own.
33:04
Treat it like it's not fucking yours and it needs to be left the way it was.
33:07
Right. Well, there's that.
33:09
Maybe that'll fix it. But anyway...
33:13
Let's move on to this state because
33:14
this state, these numbers really surprised me. And I, I don't know.
33:20
I'd be curious to how accurate these numbers actually are. So Missouri is our
33:24
next state. In 2004, they killed 329,100 ducks with a total active duck hunters
33:32
of 28,500 is what they have wrote down.
33:35
Which, okay. Yeah, that's before the big, that's in the beginning of the big
33:39
boom for Missouri, right?
33:41
What big boom are you talking about? No, no, no. We've already talked about that.
33:45
2024, 394,700 total duck harvest, which that's a 70,000 duck increase,
33:53
which, I mean, that's not that drastic.
33:56
But they've also gained, they're up to 39,600. So almost 10,000,
34:02
or no, sorry, over 11,000 new duck hunters that state.
34:06
And quick mass, right? Did this all in my head. You'd be surprised.
34:10
So the first number, 2004, they were averaging just over 11 birds a hunter.
34:15
And as of 2024, just under 10 birds a hunter. So their average is going down
34:19
on how many birds each hunter is killing.
34:22
That's what the numbers say. That's right, right. We can only go off what the
34:28
article gave us. We can't, I can't see it.
34:33
That's the one state on this whole list that I find hard to believe that one's
34:39
difficult for me to really reel in and believe those numbers are accurate well,
34:47
I don't know we can only go off of what they're telling us right yeah no that's all we could do,
34:56
but but when he 329 394,
35:01
How many of those active duck hunters are paid duck hunters?
35:06
The other day. Sorry. Sorry.
35:09
How many of them are just in there for maybe three days? Right.
35:16
I don't know. It's weird. Maybe that's why their average went down.
35:18
They just got a bunch of guys paying for three days and they can't shoot shit.
35:23
Sitka hunters. Hey.
35:29
All right. Let's roll on. Illinois. boy, this is my home state where I grew up hunting.
35:34
So 2004, we had a total of 320,500 total ducks harvested, with a total active duck hunters of 37,300.
35:46
Quite a few. That's a good amount of duck hunters.
35:49
That's a good amount of duck hunters. Let's check and see what happens here.
35:52
In 2024, they kill 340,600, which sounds good because it's more ducks killed.
36:01
But the total active duck hunters fall off by 12,000. We're down to 25,400.
36:09
Which is also weird, right? Because we keep tickling on this rabbit hole,
36:13
but the southern portion of that, you're getting into it. So I'm kind of curious
36:16
on why the downfall in numbers.
36:18
I don't know. And it's weird that Illinois lost 12,000, Missouri gained like
36:23
almost 12,000. I mean, it's weird.
36:27
I know. It's kind of weird. I don't know why. Right.
36:31
So then we get to Arkansas, which Arkansas has always been touted as one of
36:36
the most premier waterfowl hunting states in the country for all of time, basically. Yeah.
36:43
In 2004, they killed 1,127,400 total ducks harvested, with a total active duck hunters of 67,800.
36:56
This is a lot of numbers. Type into a calculator. 1,127,400.
37:00
So then in 2024, they killed 1,415,000 ducks,
37:09
with a total active duck hunters of 75,100.
37:15
So increase in ducks increase the duck hunters correlates right yep just for
37:19
reference in case anybody's wondering i'm curious 2004 that averages to 16.6 ducks per hunter,
37:28
i mean then 2024 we got one four five zero zero zero but about 75 100,
37:37
and that's 18.8 that's some incredible numbers there compared to all the other
37:42
states that we've gone over. Not all the states, but that's the ones we've gone over.
37:47
I'll pull up Louisiana here in a minute. We'll go through that state because I'm curious on that.
37:52
But, I mean, that's a lot of duck hunters in Arkansas.
37:56
And I mean, granted, there is a ton of accessible ground down there,
38:02
whether it's public WMAs and flooded timber or just private clubs.
38:06
I mean, they have a ton of private clubs.
38:09
Private clubs And again, circling back to this, this comment,
38:14
I'm genuinely not dogging on nobody, but Arkansas, obviously one of the quote
38:18
unquote premier destinations that everybody thinks of, right?
38:21
I would be curious on that total active duck hunters. How many of those are,
38:26
are just the, we're going to go to the lodge. You know, I'm going to do a three-day
38:29
hunt, get the boys together, go to a three-day hunt.
38:33
I'd like to know how many of those are consistent duck hunters versus the weekend warrior type deal.
38:38
Yeah, I'd be very curious in that too, because I feel like nowadays there are
38:42
a lot of pay-to-play duck hunters. There's a pile.
38:46
Where they go to a club, they hunt for whether just a weekend or a five-day
38:50
trip, they get their fix in, and they go home, and they go back to their everyday life.
38:56
They don't do it again the rest of the year. Yeah.
39:01
I do think waterfowl hunting has turned into that more than anything over these 20 years.
39:06
It's easy. It's so much easier. And honestly, it's cheaper.
39:11
By the time you hear your total cost, yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
39:14
if you add up everything I have into waterfowl hunting, I could probably pay
39:16
for the next fucking 30 years of duck hunting five days a year. Yeah.
39:21
Again, not dogging. That's what you're into. That's what you're into.
39:24
But yeah, I'm just curious on those numbers because I do think that state's
39:27
numbers would be way higher than the other states we've talked about.
39:30
Right. So before we go switch over to Louisiana here, because I do want to talk
39:34
about that. I didn't even think about that before I wrote all this stuff down.
39:38
In just these four states we talked about, we're talking Missouri,
39:41
North Dakota, Illinois, and Arkansas, there was, in 2024, 1,007,689.
39:51
Mallards killed, compared to, in 2004, 1,150,137.
39:58
So, pretty consistent through the past 20 years, really.
40:03
Yeah, 40k difference? no that'd be 143k oh shit it would be I mean it's okay I know it's my bad,
40:15
Told you I'd doggone you at some point. Yeah, I know. It's fine.
40:18
I looked at the numbers wrong.
40:20
Yeah, no, but does that correlate with what we're seeing up here?
40:25
They're killing more there, and
40:27
that's where we're seeing these population drops, or is it other things?
40:33
I don't know. If I remember right,
40:37
I think early 2000s is kind of when we peaked at one point for duck numbers,
40:43
And then we started tailing off around 2004 or a little bit later than that,
40:47
maybe is when the numbers started to like come down.
40:51
And then I feel like within the past, there was like a five-year span there
40:54
where they really declined fast.
40:56
Yeah. And now we've kind of, we've kind of leveled off. Now I think we're kind
41:00
of hopefully at the worst of the worst.
41:03
And we're going to maybe in the next couple of years start coming back up so
41:06
we can improve the numbers again. and not just hunting numbers and duck harvest
41:12
numbers, but just total duck numbers. Like our duck numbers are way down compared
41:16
to what they were back then.
41:19
Yeah.
41:22
The level off thing is nice, right? But I'd like to see, it's okay for the dip,
41:26
it's okay for the level, but at some point we need to come back up a little
41:30
bit because otherwise we keep doing this over 100 years.
41:35
You drop, you level, you drop, you level, eventually that number's going to
41:38
be ridiculously low and then it's going to be a fight that might not win to
41:44
get these duck numbers back.
41:46
Right, I agree. But while we're here, you ready for some Louisiana numbers?
41:53
Yeah, let me get the old calculator out. You don't have to. I can do that for
41:57
you. Oh, yeah, do that then.
41:59
So in 2004, there was 822,000 ducks harvested in Louisiana.
42:08
There was 52,200 total ducks harvested in Louisiana, which come out to be 15.7,
42:18
per hunter for the season. Okay.
42:21
So then we switch over to 2024 here. Then scroll up to this one. Get there.
42:29
One more. All right. 2024. We are at 1,246,600 total duck harvest with total
42:39
active hunters of 58,900.
42:44
And the seasonal harvest per hunter, 21.2.
42:50
Which puts them up quite a bit in all the numbers, all perspectives. Yeah, that's wild.
42:57
Which is very surprising on that.
43:00
And I'd be curious to see if we revisit this next year, how those numbers change
43:05
again, if we can find them, right? Just because with that new whistling duck
43:08
season, they're going to open up.
43:10
Yeah, that is going to be cool. That is something really cool for them.
43:13
Oh, my goodness. Yeah. For them. Oh, my God. Do I need to call an ambulance? Almost.
43:18
No, it's cool. It's going to be cool for them to be able to kill,
43:22
you know, add another ducks to the list. And I haven't looked at numbers.
43:26
Did you see what the daily was on those? I did not, but I think it's going to
43:30
be, there's like a, I think, don't quote me on this, but I think there was a
43:33
10-day season or some kind of special season allotted for just killing them.
43:39
And then I thought I heard there might be like one added to your daily.
43:45
Bag limit for regular season, but I could be wrong on that.
43:49
Hmm no it's which again shouldn't change it drastically but i would be curious
43:54
see if we could find those if we revisit this topic again next year you know
43:58
i think it would be cool to revisit it and kind of maybe compare 2025,
44:03
which would be this past season we just had and then maybe like 2005 or something
44:08
like that just kind of keep going with it you know maybe do it every once a
44:12
year and around this time or june or july whenever the numbers come out,
44:16
and just kind of see which way we're trending, you know, and how certain states
44:20
are doing compared to how they used to do.
44:23
Especially, you know, if we can compare 2025 with Arkansas, just with the flooding
44:29
and the cypress trees and the shutting down certain areas. Curious to see what their numbers do.
44:34
Right. So what is one thing that you take away from these numbers after hearing,
44:40
you know, these five, six states of hunter numbers, kill numbers,
44:45
all that stuff? What's one thing you kind of think of or take away from it?
44:48
Could always be better, could always be worse. Be happy with what you got.
44:52
Yeah, I mean, there's that. I mean, don't be happy, right?
44:56
We need to work on consistently or continuing to increase habitat and things
45:00
like that, you know, if we need to look at different season dates or splits
45:04
or something. But realistically, we're better than I thought we would be based
45:09
on those numbers. Right.
45:12
One thing I ask the listeners, anybody that's listening to this,
45:14
is if you think of something that you want to comment, let us know what your
45:19
thoughts are on these numbers.
45:20
Or if you're listening to this podcast, wherever you're listening to our podcast
45:24
at, shoot us a message or comment.
45:27
I think on Spotify you can put comments on there or YouTube and let us know
45:31
what your thoughts are on these numbers.
45:33
But for me, one thing that I can take away from these numbers that I've always
45:37
been told my entire life is that we need to get more people into waterfowl hunting,
45:41
which falls true for only two states that we mentioned.
45:45
Every other state on here has gained 4, 5, 10,000 more hunters plus.
45:51
Yep. So, you know, they preach that we have less hunters now than we ever used to.
45:56
But in all reality, if we went through every single one, do you think that's actually true? No.
46:02
That's, I mean, the same thing we've thought for years. Obviously, Iowa's down bad.
46:06
And so it's Illinois. And you know, if you guys feel inclined,
46:10
help support your local Delta, right? Because that's their motto.
46:13
So make more ducks and duck hunters. If we can get, you know, whether it's the...
46:19
You know, if you have kids, I mean, that you ever talk to at some point,
46:23
getting them out at certain points might be more difficult.
46:26
Because what if some point we get to the habitat loss and it's like,
46:29
ah, shit, it's not really worth it.
46:31
Like, I don't want to do that. You know, I don't want to fight 75 boats and,
46:35
see no ducks and fight for a hide and everything else. So I'm not going to do
46:38
it anymore, which means my kid's not going to do it anymore.
46:41
You know, I didn't grow up a duck hunter.
46:42
I became a duck hunter because somebody else took me at one point in time and
46:46
I fell in love with it. How can you not?
46:49
Some days i don't some days i hate it days i wonder why i do this sport but,
46:56
yeah it's it's a you know circles back you got to get kids out got to get them
46:59
interested and if we can do that by increasing duck numbers and habitat that's how it's done,
47:05
right so my next question would be you know what kind of shocks you the most
47:11
about these numbers if there if there is a something other than what we already
47:14
mentioned, that shocks you.
47:16
I mean, honestly, the most shocking was Louisiana. And the only reason I say
47:19
that is because it was just never a state on my list type deal,
47:24
right? Of the, where would you go duck hunting?
47:27
Obviously, they've got ducks. Obviously, they've got some killer hunting specs
47:30
and sand hills and all that. But it's like, it just wasn't one that I would
47:33
have ever paid attention to. So it was wild to see that many ducks.
47:36
Well, let me ask you this. So it's a big thing. And I do like the Flyway Federation.
47:42
I like what they're trying to do.
47:44
That they're trying to get different things just to improve habitat.
47:48
Not just the flooded corn deal, but they're going all different avenues to try
47:52
and help their state out and other states around them.
47:56
But I just don't, there's a lot of griping going on down there.
48:00
And okay, I get it. They're not killing as many mallards, but they're still,
48:05
they're still killing a lot of ducks. Still killing birds.
48:09
Yeah. Yeah. What do you do?
48:13
For me? Yeah. I don't know. There's just a lot of things that shocked me other
48:17
than the Louisiana thing. I mean, I was really shocking to me how we've lost almost 10,000 hunters.
48:24
That is shocking because like i said when we when we talked about that stat
48:27
it just doesn't feel like it where we're at,
48:30
right yeah we've lost 30 like we've we've lost 9 000 hunters but we also increased
48:36
our kill rate per hunter up for a seasonal margin not not i mean i don't know
48:41
what the daily margin would look like but the seasonal looks better,
48:45
but there's half as many mallards being killed that's weird to me like.
48:50
I mean, the Mallard numbers are hurting. They're not doing good compared to
48:53
what they were 20 years ago.
48:55
No, and I can't speak for that, right? I mean, I started, we've talked about
48:59
it. I've started on private ponds.
49:01
We didn't get a lot of Mallards. It was a lot of Teal and Woodies and Spoonies and Gadwall.
49:08
My boy Gaddies, they always play right. But, yeah, I mean, for me,
49:12
the past two years are really where we're seeing the Mallards.
49:15
So I can't say that it's always, or that it's been downward for me.
49:18
For you, I can see where you can say that like, holy shit, we're killing less
49:21
mallards every year. Right.
49:25
Yeah, I mean, it's rough. So that was my last thing. And I know you did just
49:30
text me and say your battery's about to die, but maybe you should have charged
49:33
your shit before we started here. It was 100%. This computer sucked.
49:36
Well, dude, grow up. Charge your shit more.
49:40
I'm still at 79%, and I'm not even plugged in. Look at me.
49:46
I'm a senior citizen, and I'm responsible. That's right.
49:50
So I want to get into, before I'm done here, like I said, whether you make it
49:53
through this or not, kind of how Iowa stacks up compared to Missouri because
49:57
it's our neighboring state, you know? Yep, yep. It's pretty close by for us.
50:02
I've hunted both and enjoy hunting both. Missouri can be a lot of fun to hunt.
50:08
So start with kind of like what we're just going to do 2024,
50:11
the total active hunters. They got 39,600 and we've got 11,500.
50:19
Right. Right, and they went up $11,000 versus they grew the opposite way we did.
50:26
Yeah, like what's one thing they're doing different that you can see?
50:33
I don't know. Yeah, come on.
50:38
I think, you know, if I'm playing the douchey guy, I think their,
50:44
their land prices are a little different.
50:45
So if a guy decided to plant and leave a certain food source,
50:51
he could do it a lot more feasible than we can.
50:54
Well, I think, yeah. Maybe that's where, like, you get the guy that wants to
50:59
duck hunt five days a year.
51:01
Well, if he's got a little extra cash, I was fighting the same problem with
51:05
out-of-staters, right?
51:05
So if he's, if he's held it, I'm by a hundred acres and flood 30 of it and put
51:10
two pit blinds in and there's where we're hunting, you know,
51:13
and you get 12 buddies to go do it every year. There you go.
51:17
Well, I think Missouri's just doing it better than Illinois.
51:22
Well, they're probably doing it better than them, too.
51:24
But they're doing it better than us here in Iowa.
51:27
Obviously, look at their state ground. They've got flooded corn,
51:31
all that good stuff. And they've got a mix of stuff, not just flooded corn.
51:34
They've got flooded timbers, too, all of it. Yep.
51:36
And they just have better access to property.
51:40
And I think that's why you're seeing their hunter numbers go up by 11,000 plus,
51:45
thousand because there's better access better hunting opportunities and just
51:49
overall better hunting like missouri is better hunting than iowa for waterfowl.
51:55
Today compared to 20 years ago iowa was probably better than what they were
52:01
or close you know to as good,
52:04
there just was less hunters in iowa 9 000 less hunters to be pretty close to
52:09
exact on that and it's just one of those things that yeah there's more clubs
52:14
there's more flooded crops there's more access there's bigger lakes,
52:19
a little bit of everything but we don't we i mean and we've lost our habitat,
52:22
in iowa a lot of our wetlands are gone up in northwest iowa yeah yeah it's uh,
52:27
like i said like we talked about it's turning a lot of it into into real crop
52:30
trying to trying to make some money again not trying to bash anybody for doing
52:35
it you got to do what what puts money in your pocket keeps keeps them afloat
52:38
but as long as it's legal you might as well do it and make the money now,
52:43
yep which is tough like like we said we need to get some more funding into these
52:47
these habitat funds you know i will the wetlands the buffer strips all the above
52:52
right and help these guys out as much as we can as much as outdoorsmen can because,
52:57
the more we can help them then obviously.
53:00
You get more habitat we open up more areas for dock hunting most farmers don't
53:04
give a shit if you go out and kill
53:05
birds as long as you take care of their shit. So if we can open that up,
53:09
Yeah. Right. Well, I mean, especially, it's hard to believe they're that much
53:13
better than us all around just because we are part of the prairie pothole region,
53:18
to a point. Right, right. We are, like, Northwest Iowa is a part of it.
53:22
A lot of those prairie potholes are completely drained nowadays,
53:25
but technically, as of right now, we are still considered in the prairie pothole
53:28
region in Northwest Iowa.
53:30
But it is what it is. We can't do nothing about it now but try and recover what
53:34
we've lost, and that's going to be harder to do than getting rid of it.
53:39
Getting rid of it was the easy part getting it back way harder yep yep trying
53:44
to rebuild is always harder yeah,
53:46
but for everybody tuning in we do appreciate you guys listening this week it's
53:50
been it's always fun talking numbers I like talking this stuff it's cool to
53:54
compare how it was 20 years ago to now,
53:57
or well just think about what what we could have been killing 20 years ago yeah
54:02
yeah I wonder I wonder how good it really was in Iowa 20 years ago,
54:07
you tell me you're that old I wasn't here oh that's right you lived in that one state I did.
54:16
But I'm going to think that's going to go ahead and wrap us up here as Zach's
54:20
battery is about to die on his laptop because somebody doesn't know how to charge his laptop.
54:25
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54:30
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54:38
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54:41
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54:45
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54:48
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54:53
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54:59
and then Instagram at duck fellows underscore podcast.
55:02
But that wraps it up for episode 30 of the duck fellows podcast.
55:07
Until next time, make sure you spam Cade and Austin with hate mail, please. Yeah.
55:13
Yes. do that and spam our inbox with stuff you want to talk about on top of that. Yes.
55:18
If there's anything you want to hear us talk about or anything you want us to
55:21
debate, bring it up. We'll do it.
55:24
We don't care. I scare shit.