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Ditching Corporate: Engineering a Creative Business with Dan Bennett · Big Talk About Small Business

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're sitting on the couch, kids are sleeping.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I look at her, and uh the edited version is like, we're both way too talented to uh be this broke.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like the this is a problem.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um, in that same conversation, I was like, This is terrible timing, and I don't have a plan or anything, but like, man, I need to like get away for a week or something.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not get away from you or the situation, but like get away from my own thoughts, you know.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: All these things that you can say, and you're a you're a victorious, you're a winner because of those things.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I don't know about that.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_04: But Dan, we are glad you're here with us today in the studio.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: It always takes us a little while to get cranked up on this great uh talk show we have called Big Talk about Small Business.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_04: And uh Dan Dan, I saw um you actually did some work for Harley Davidson at one point.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, in a former in a former life, yeah.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was actually uh uh a little extra fun back in the days where I didn't love the work I was doing, uh, but I did get access to their whole uh marketing um cloud.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I had access to all of their formal assets, everything from imagery to b-roll to former commercials and stuff.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it made my job a lot easier to be able to see into their world.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: Well, cool.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: So tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: What how did you get started in this business that you're in?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the uh short version.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um a hundred years ago I was an engineer and I hated it.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always looking for my creative outlets.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those was being in a band that toured and to save money because we weren't signed.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I did everything.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I did our web and our designs, I printed our shirts.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then other bands started to hire me for the same thing.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea what the word entrepreneur was, I just knew, you know, make a little money on the side.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: As that kind of grew and we were growing out of being a band, I was like, we should make a music video.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh can't be that hard.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: About nine months later, we uh completed it to this day.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was a long time ago.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still pretty proud of it, but it was one of the hardest things I ever did.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it also opened my eyes to video.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I moved away from digital design and into the video world at that point.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: That was like 2010.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had the video bug ever since.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's cool.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, tell us about nine months.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like you, like a video for the band was not a big deal, but you got into it, it became something much different than you expected, huh?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can't really uh do anything halfway.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure a lot of us are kind of cursed with that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we actually storyboarded, worked a script, hired a director, uh, brought actors in from all over the Midwest, found a way to get talented actors without paying them cash.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we had to get pretty creative there.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, get sites, get permission, gorilla shoot some things we couldn't get permission for, and then editing on anything that's narrative always takes a pretty long time.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So just the combination of all those things I thought it'd be four weeks and it turned into yeah, about three quarters of a year.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I learned a ton in the process.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was worth it.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it really just forced you to learn all the different components of video and scripting, pre-planning, pre-production, post.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's that's a pretty intense way to get going, man.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh trial by fire.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but luckily it was on a project that I was passionate about without having to hype myself up to go do it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that got me through.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah, yeah, got bit by the bug and left standard design.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to run a uh art department for a large apparel printer, so I left all of that kind of design world and start chasing video.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and started hot sauce video.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Where'd you come up with that name?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a little further down the line, but um the concept uh was pretty organic in nature, which is actually kind of fun.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So one of our products is we help people about 90% of the time remotely uh build in-home and office studios.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we would notice that we would get someone looking and sounding good, and they would they would have that kind of high for seven to ten days of, whoa, I actually don't mind how this looks and sounds.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is actually pretty good.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I could do this.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually they would crash down and be like, how do you make a great?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's a script?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do you outlook?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, and therefore was born our strategy product.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we wanted to, as a team, we were looking at them, we're like, how do we extend that high?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: How do we um get maybe two weeks of them really believing in themselves instead of just seven days?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And being a lifelong, uh, as far as this part of my career, being a lifelong editor over 16 years now, I was like, well, you know what we could do now that they look and sound good, I'll tell them just give me a video, 90 seconds on your favorite topic.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you don't even have to publish it to the public, but just give it to us.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let us throw a little hot-os on it and give it back so you can see what's possible now that you look and sound good.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh fast forward a little bit.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had some uh mentors and some um, you know, helpful folk in the entrepreneurial space around me who were like, all right, dude, you you help people look and sound great on camera and build studios.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: You help them figure out what to make, how to measure it, where it should go, what job it should do.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then you bail on them when they need editing.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't do that.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And little did they know I hate editing personally.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I got away from it for a long time.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the only way to overcome that was to uh put my head down, do it all myself, MVP the product for 14 months, do everything I hate really, really hard, and then build it to a point to where I could hire on staff and then get myself out of it, which is exactly what we did.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when it came time to name the product, I'm like, well, I'm just gonna call it hot sauce editing because I'm lazy and we've already been saying that for years.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then it caught on so much that I just pun intended spread the hot sauce across the whole brand and just called it hot sauce video.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And now all our products just kind of carry that name with it.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: So what's your specialty then for your video company?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Then I mean, is it is it about setting up studios and and and all that type?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: Or I mean, what are you really doing?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, it's as we've grown, um, it's starting to even out a little bit, which is exciting.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: The editing's the backbone.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a subscription-based editing service, and we have a lot of large creators, large YouTube channels, prolific course creators, stuff like that, who we edit for.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um the studio builds, like I said, it used to be 100% remote.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's kind of 10 because I'm in Dallas, Fort Worth, Texas, and you can throw a rock and hit a lead here.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, like it word kind of got out that I did studio.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been doing more in-person in the Fort Worth area over the last few months, and that's been fun.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be a full-time in-person studio builder, but it's nice to get with bigger companies with bigger budgets and actually physically get my hands dirty and help them build.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, studio, strategy, and editing are the three products.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the editing's the backbone, it's the biggest earner.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but studio and and rep uh strategy are coming up pretty fast.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And really what ties all those things together, the thread of the business since I left doing corporate and government contracting and stuff like that, is that I'm helping people who film themselves.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really the thing that we've been mainly focused on since like 2017.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and fun fact, I don't have to fully dive into the story right now, but we do still have large clients that we help small teams within very personally, just like we do our individual clients.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of cool that our product is that versatile.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: So, like what kind of videos um are these people doing?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_04: You said like YouTube content, like the guy that does the free lawn cutting videos or we we get some of those that are really heavy on social, but um it kind of runs the gamut.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: But if I had to pick like the biggest pocket of clients, it definitely falls within the category of what I call education.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, some of these creators might not consider themselves educational, but they're generally speaking the camera.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're learning something, whether that's to potentially work with them and their services and their products someday, or just to become aware of them in the market.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we are B2B.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: So even though we work with creators and stuff, generally they're trying to create some sort of attention and lead generation through their output.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: And put uh what type of uh clientele?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like is this something for a really small business that they can tap into, or are you talking about more enterprise level?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely uh aimed at smaller.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was kind of part of the goal, leaving the whole corporate space and working with those big companies was I'm originally from Flint, Michigan.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd fly all over the country, do all these video projects, come home and couldn't, you know, my neighbors couldn't afford to hire me.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, how do we help them?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And very accidentally and organically, I wish it was on purpose because I would look a lot smarter.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I started filming myself and I had built this little uh contraption on a C-SAM with wheels where my camera, mic, lights were all mounted to it, and I could just walk around the building with it like a little IV cart, you know?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I just waddle around the building, pick a floor, and all the floors in the dedicated office building I I was in were pretty.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I could get any background I wanted, and then people would see that happening and be like, What are you doing?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And because I had been doing video forever, I'd be like, you know what, jump in front of the camera, I'll interview you.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I do this professionally, and then I would give them a little piece of content, you know.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of my brain.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: It was fun.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was so much fun.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: And it was accidental in my I mean you it's almost like you could take that tactic and go out on a trade show floor or something and and think of all the potential clients who would you'd be able to demonstrate what you do basically for them.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was definitely fun.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh during the shutdown in 2020, uh, like many other businesses, we lost everything.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: We had a business conference already locked in, selling tickets, had to do the refund, you know, figure all that out, shut our business down.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: We got a small PPP loan and we went an extra two months and I gave it all to my team and like let's see if we can conjure something up.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we weren't able to use, so we had to shut down um many businesses of our size experience, that same sort of thing.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was like, well, we don't currently have work, but maybe we can be helpful.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I just put the call out to a bunch of mid-Michigan news stations, like, hey, let everyone know that we're doing free videos and we'll come with our little cart and they can still stand six feet away and we can shoot outdoors in front of their building or whatever they're comfortable with, just to make videos for restaurants and stuff like that to tell their audience, hey, we're still open, but you got to go around back and knock three times on the big red door and we'll put it in here, you know, all that stuff.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we got picked up on that and had a bunch of videos go viral and stuff.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that little cart went through the streets at one point in between a bunch of restaurants, and uh it was really fun.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it it is something that I could revive.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'll take it to my next conference.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then uh, so but you're in Michigan, then you're now down in Dallas, you said Fort Worth?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, yep.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just a little bit north of Fort Worth proper, moved about four and a half years ago.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Why'd you do that?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm not ashamed to say that weather is on that list.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, eight months of winter is very depressing unless you have a snowmobile or a cabin up north.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and opportunity in Michigan uh just really isn't there unless you're in very specific fields.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if you're in automotive or uh medicine or skilled trades, there's stuff there for you, but not a lot of uh growth and opportunity.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And my partner is uh a chef.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So unless you're in like Detroit proper or Lansing proper or Ann Arbor proper, and you want a decent job in the culinary industry, you have to drive.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're back to six months of like icy roads and driving on that every day.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, weather was on there.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the density of Dallas Fort Worth is about two-thirds uh in population as all of Michigan.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So hearkening back to Throw a Stone, Find a Lead, like it's crazy how many humans are here.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it afforded a lot of opportunity for both of our crews, especially hers.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and now she's thriving with an awesome celebrity chef guy in Fort Worth and found her way, and it's cool.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um opportunity.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I've been coming here my whole life as well.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So familiarity, it was on our top five states to visit.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And after we visited and I had some business meetings and met with some real estate folks, I was like, I think this might be it.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we took the plunge.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: It is one of the hottest economies, if not the hottest economy in the country.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, EFW.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: It is.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's so different.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: I lived there back in the mid-80s, and it was so oil-dependent and development dependent at that time, and it's just evolved tremendously since then.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is pretty crazy.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of industry representation now, too, which is slowly happening, but it's visible.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So someone like me isn't so out of place nowadays, you know.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: So how do you how do you grow a company like yours?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, has it been difficult to find the talent that you need?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Difficult on on all fronts.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, not complaining, but a lot of what works for an online business of any kind just has never worked for us.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and God knows I've tried.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um it, you know, it's a lot of word of mouth, a lot of affiliation and collaboration, um, being very, very niche.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So not just helping with video, but we help people who film themselves, who might be filming themselves at their home office or, you know, where they need a small studio.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like all those things have helped us kind of carve a path.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, having our editing service be subscription-based has been really, really great for companies who have hired editors and churned through them or tried to have someone on team that leaves, or have their own freelancers and they're chasing people down.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So us taking all of that pain away and saying, we do all that hard work, we just edit your stuff, don't worry about it.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um was a great kind of backbone to the business.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's about 2.5x each year over the last four.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we've had tremendous growth um on that side, which is very organic.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and a lot of the things that folks do that work just don't work for us.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like running ads really doesn't do too much for us.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, like old school things just work so well for us that I keep doing them, like teaching in people's workshops in their online community, and some people hire me from that, or being on shows like this that are business related.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then folks are like, you know, video is important to me, but my laptop looks terrible.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I should get a hold of that guy.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like it it's been very much organic.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so not too much advice for other folks on how to how to grow a business like this because I'm still trying to figure it out in some regard.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: And you had a story about your you when you were traveling, I guess it was this the move from Michigan down to Dallas that was that you went through some things, or is there a different trip?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was yeah, it was kind of uh accidental, which I think is what makes it so great.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had this moment, I recall to it often, I tell the story quite a bit, where uh like I said, we had lost everything.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So uh she was like figuring out the farmers markets that were still open during COVID and what could be done there.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was taking side work anywhere I could, and uh we were making it work, but it was a lot bumpier uh than we had hoped for.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we were sitting on the couch, kids are sleeping, I look at her, and uh the edited version is like we're both way too talented to uh be this broke, like this is a problem.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um, in that same conversation, I was like, this is terrible timing, and I don't have a plan or anything, but like, man, I need to like get away for a week or something.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Not get away from you or the situation, but like get away from my own thoughts, you know.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just a passing thought.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: We kept talking.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um few days later, uh Jax, my partner, she had gone uh behind my back and got with a company called Outdoorsy, which I think is still around.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like Airbnb for camper trailers and RVs and stuff like that.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and she had rented me this little pop-up trailer for 10 days, and she drove an SUV and I drove a small car.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: So she let me take her car and I left mine behind and went to this young couple and picked up this pop-up trailer.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the the great part of the story is I had a friend uh when I mentioned I used to run the art department for large apparel printer, he was the owner of that company.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: We became business partners of a sort along the way and then remained friends ever since when I moved on and started my own thing.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Who he had accidentally bought a campground in northern lower peninsula, Michigan.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just wild, you know, how it kind of happened.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: But he'd been looking for land for a long, long time, finally found some.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: It had a building on it, that's all he cared about.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: He got there, made the offer, was going to sign papers.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh yeah, by the way, this used to be a campground.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: So there's like bathrooms and electricity and stuff here, like you can do what you want with it.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he ended up now turning it into a full-blown campground that does, you know, really, really well.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been fun to watch.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, it wasn't developed yet.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, there's one lot that has power, and there's one toilet that works.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, if you want to go there, there's no one there, it's all yours.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I just went out into the wilderness for 10 days and I had a whiteboard, a book, a couple documentaries pre-littered on an iPad, and no agenda.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of the beginning of figuring out what I'm doing today.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's cool.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, like, I think that there's a story behind that with like from an entrepreneurial standpoint, right?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because like what what did that time teach you?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like what like it was a I mean, what what did it show you going through that?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think one of the things that really stuck with me was like slowing down, shutting up, being quiet, you know, and not trying to solve all problems all the time.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because business for me has always just been like fire, fire, fire, fight it, fight it, fight it, you know.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: So just having a whiteboard and no agenda, I was like, huh.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I went a full day without writing anything.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the second day, I kind of broke it into five columns, uh, and it was the five parts of my life.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like relationship and business and financial, and you know, and I just started making random notes.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does this mean to me or what's currently going on here?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: In the financial one, it was like save up to move out of state, you know.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was just one of the things I wrote.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so it really kind of like helped me shluff off all the stuff that came with being an entrepreneur and kind of be like, I'm just a dude.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is the next stage.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want out of life?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't to plan my next steps, it was just to like kind of brain dump and let let myself be okay with the fact that I didn't have any answers.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the book I took with me, uh, very randomly, I just wanted one book.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was Atomic Habits by James Clear.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I've never had a book change my life, air quotes, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've had them impact me and be helpful, but that one did change my life.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's because of the state of mind I was in and where I was at with it.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I went through it really slow.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And like most books I read, I took one point away, you know, and that was get 1% better every day.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of focused that 10 days on just trying to absorb information and think a little differently and those sorts of things.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So uh for lack of a better term, maybe a spiritual journey of just who am I and what's next and why does it matter.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think that that clarity has helped you in your business?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like because then thereafter you moved to Dallas, right?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: Fort Worth area.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we saved up for about uh eight months, I think, and then made a big move.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was super helpful.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the proof of how impactful that sort of thing can be is again, I've told that story many, many times.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And probably a measurable 50% of the times I tell that story, someone on the other end goes, Oh, I need to do something like that.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like they can feel that if they could just get away for 10 days in the forest, they might chill a little bit or find the next answer.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that impact just telling the story has told me many times.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, it was necessary.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it was all because my partner was like, Cool, I'll make it happen.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we used a credit card we shouldn't have.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, here you go, go go find yourself.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Totally worth it.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have phone service up there?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: There was enough where I could call her, but I couldn't text or anything.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that wasn't by design, but it was, you know, the middle of the upper or lower peninsula.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I could, you know, get a call into her, but text didn't go through.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't send any photos.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I had to save them all until I got home and share them then.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So accidental seclusion.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was almost a blessing, I'm sure.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the problem is these damn phones, while it's such a great tool, it's just you can never disconnect.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I just never disconnect anymore.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: I've got so many things going.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think, you know, like we Mark and I are always harping about life, work, integration, not balance, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: We're not very big believers in, you know, trying to structure your day because as a business owner and entrepreneur, like you you're you always have to be tapped in some way or another, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not, then you're something really bad could happen to your to your entire investment, you know.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta respond to people or responding on us.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you gotta push.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're the only one pushing.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, everybody's pulling their own weight a lot of times.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, but but we don't, I don't think we get we give enough credit because you do this.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen you do this.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like you'll you'll break away and have like a time with your family.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, every seems like every year, you know.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and there's other ways that you know, when we say integrate, like it, you know, I have a way to escape, you know, the daily, you know, my mine, mine is more micro.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: I have a lot of micro escapes, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're you know, the other day at 4 30 p.m., I break away and I go fish for an hour and a half, and I mean that's what I need, or I jump on the tractor and mow.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you like to mow too, yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, like we're very meditative time, it's 100%, man.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's unbelievable.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Little micro moments that that uh but in a situation like that, where there I don't know about you guys, but I have a lot of times where there's this kind of bubbling up need to do exactly data.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: What you're talking about just as an entrepreneur is like I really need to disengage.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: This doesn't mean to go to Disney World and have a bunch of chaos and that's horrible.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, plan something that we're gonna be.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is the obvious thing.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: You need a vacation when you come back from vacation.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that happens to us a lot, right?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the the pressure, but like to get isolated, to collect your thoughts.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like what I liked about really what you're doing in that situation is you're escaping just kind of in your face problems.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like it, you your your brain actually kind of starts to decompress and rest a little bit.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then from that comes a lot of intuitive direction, you know, and and I think that intuitive direction is what gives us a lot of confidence and decision making.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because when you come when you come back to a business and you have clear vision, yeah, that's so important.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: I I noticed something Dan said that I'll make the distinction about.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: He said, I didn't necessarily map out a plan, but he was talking about what he wanted, the desired end state.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: There's a big distinction there.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think we all know kind of what the end state is we're going for.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, you're never gonna be able to have a detailed plan that's gonna work out.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: But it's it, but at least you got your goal.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: You know where you're trying to go with it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: If you don't have that, then you're probably not gonna get where you want to go.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: My uh myself got out of my brain's way for sure.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, then my brain did a great job of figuring some things out.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I've always found that fascinating that at least in my perspective, there's kind of like your subconscious that just does what it wants, including breathe, heartbeat, all the stuff.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's your kind of like thoughts that you have a little control over what's happening.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's kind of you as the observer of both.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: So there's like subconscious that's like breathe, and you know, conscious is like, oh yeah, I forgot we do that.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you're watching the conversation or debate happen, you know.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really a time of being kind of in that third person where I just let my brain do things that I wrote things that made no sense.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: My notes from being out there are really weird.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of keywords and not a lot of whole thoughts, you know.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of keywords.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_04: But uh Did you do like mushrooms or something?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, I wish.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, I had to listen to it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you don't have to in that state, you know?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I I had a couple uh like micro epiphanies.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And one, real quick, is that I I realized that part of what was driving me and part of what I really, really desired was to like put money in other people's pockets.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the things that drove me to business in the first place, outside of just being creative.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And now twice a month on Fridays, it's my favorite day, which sounds weird, I'm sure, to some entrepreneurs when I cut checks to everyone and I'm like, oh, that feels so good.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, because I'm contributing to someone else's uh existence.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_04: That's not weird at all.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_04: I think most entrepreneurs will tell you that being able to create good jobs for people is one of the most gratifying things they do.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: I I at least that's what we hear and we feel that way.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everyone, quick break to talk to the brands and service providers listening out there.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you offer a product or solution that helps founders scale, we'd love to work with you.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: Whether you're looking for a product placement right here in our studio set, sponsoring a segment, showcasing a new book, or even joining us as a featured guest, we've got flexible ways to get your brand in front of real business operators.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect, Mark.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: And all they have to do is head over to Big Talk About Small Business.com forward slash contact.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: Let's set up a custom sponsorship package that actually delivers leads for your business.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's Big Talk About Small Business.com forward slash contact.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's definitely something I kind of it was always there, but I wrote it down and then it became like, oh wow, yeah, that is important to me.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing was accidental.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was essentially like I came up, you know, abusive household, broken home, awesome single mom who got me and my brother out, raised us to be great men and all this stuff.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't a lot of opportunity.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: We were very poor, all those sorts of things.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so like I've always kind of looked at money as like a tool, and I've looked at other people's, you know, circumstances with as much empathy as naturally exists in me.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: But something kind of hit me um out of nowhere.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was just again at a whiteboard.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like my brain saying to me again, you know, kind of like, hey man, remember that like you've been through a lot.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: So your 10% pain threshold might be someone else's 90.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: So when they complain about something like, oh, you know, it's hard to be on camera and I I'm embarrassed or whatever, and you're like, just do it, it's not that bad.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you need to remember they might be at a 90% anxiety level and you're at a five.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that has stuck with me ever since 2020 as well.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, on top of being empathetic, try to look through the lens of you don't know what you know your client or your employee might be going through.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's really good, man.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_04: That is, yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_04: I I always think about like, to me, it's it's I've survived all this stuff, so whatever I'm going through compared to that probably isn't that bad.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that that is a common thought.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what what I love about this discussion, you know, and Mark says I can be philosophical at times, but I mean, there's a there's a depth to being an entrepreneur.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Deep thoughts.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Deep thoughts.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: My big talk about you're part of this, by the way.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're part of the deep thinking.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: Deep thoughts about deep thoughts.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, like America Orton.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the the reality is there's not much on like entrepreneurship is a very deep uh situation.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like, or it's it's very deep.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's it takes everything.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: It takes everything you got.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's everything super complex, and people have tried to make this is why I get onto the education sector.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Can you teach somebody to be an entrepreneur?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: You can teach them theory and practices and the business side, but can you teach somebody to have the freaking grit, the guts, the passion, the drive, the vision, the subconscious, the the relentlessness, the fearlessness, the confidence.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and it's like like that's why I get pissed off about that.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, you taught me accounting, marketing theory.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: Here's the thing, though, with the teaching.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, maybe everybody can't do that, but there are more people who can do it than do do it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_04: For sure.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe in those you you you wake up that instinct and and you help them put the pieces together so they can really self-actualize.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe so.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: But I think I think there's I can't teach everybody that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: But I think there's a disc.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what I but I do think there's a discredit to what we're talking about here, right?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the the reality is like as an entrepreneur, like you you kind of have to dig into yourself and remember why I do.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: I have to remember why I do.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: When I find out and I remember why I'm doing something, to Dan's point about I am a high contributor because I do help people earn a living.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: And if I do sell this company, they get a big check.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that does pay off these big bills.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then if I can change their lives, and you're gonna change their lives in a long time and every day, if I can help them see this and I can help them make these next steps, that they're improved.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: They're getting you're talking about a lot of people talk about generational legacy wealth.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so when you die, all your daughters get all this wonderful money that you've been building up all your life.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: But what about if when you die, you've actually helped hundreds of people with their kids and family?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, what else were we here for?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, no, I agree.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: So when I just like I guess my point is there's this emotional side of remembering why I'm doing what I'm doing as an entrepreneur is a significant driver because you'll find also a lot of entrepreneurs don't really care about how much money they're really making.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: I know that, but that's the public sort of misconception.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: Anybody who's in business and owns a business is a greedy person who wants to exploit other people.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_04: And sure, there are some of those, but they're a distinct minority.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh uh, yeah, I agree.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the purpose of this, one of the points of the show, at least from my standpoint, is to have discussions like this because real entrepreneurs feel a lot.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: They are doing a lot of times things for they don't even understand why they're doing it, they just can't help but do it.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so we are actually talking about that, which the professors like Martin Zwag that teachers entrepreneurship, don't even talk about their feelings.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: What are you talking about?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: I talk about my feelings.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_04: No, but it's true.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: But but Dan, so when you're out there, though, on your own having this experience, um you know, di do you find that you just like a certain thought gets in your mind and it just you it just you can't get it out of your mind?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_04: It just keeps playing over and over and over and over and over.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: And how do you break that?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's a good question.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I definitely, you know, did as many activities as was allowed for what I had, right?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: So build a small fire.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's a small lake on that property that butts right up against state-owned forest.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So just laps around there.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, did a little bit of filming, but with no agenda, which for me is very hard.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: So just kind of walk around vlogging for no reason, you know, just talking to a camera and stuff.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those were, yeah, because that happened a lot.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, okay, how do I stop this?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I did, I had an old iPad I preloaded a couple documentaries onto.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a couple times where I would just like go watch something fascinating to try and get back into a creative state.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was it was definitely a battle.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And also it happened to be August 2020, and in Michigan, that's a really weird time.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it'd get up in like, you know, mid high eighties, and the camper was just cooking at a little fan, but only does so much.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then it would drop down into like the high 50s at night.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like eight blankets and like freezing.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: So like going through that roller coaster for those 10 days also kind of helped break up, you know, what was going on what day it was, my thoughts, those sorts of things.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, not that I would was gonna die or anything, but it my my brain would be distracted by survival every once in a while.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, gotta be warm, gotta be cold.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what are you talking about, Mark?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like the do you have a thought that just sticks in your brain cell?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, when I'm out like cutting grass or something.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, where I'll just where I've got that time and or riding a motorcycle where I have to focus entirely.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: I have no other distractions of the phone or anything.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_04: I'll just have things that just play over and over and over in my head.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are you talking about like business things or ideas of things that you should do?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like what like give us an example.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it could be business things, it could be like events that are happening in the news, it could be like something I said and how that impacted somebody else.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's a lot of different things, but it just plays over and over and over on a track, and I just obsess over it.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: And it and and you know, and it it is.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: And and I and so in a way, you know, that's why I I always say, like, I just got I get asked this all the time.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_04: People are like, well, how do you do all the stuff you do?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because I got so many things I'm involved with.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: I never have to motivate myself.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: I just overcommit and I'm conscientious.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_04: Agreed.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_04: Then there's no motivation involved at all.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna do what I don't want to make anybody unhappy.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: I want to do my job, carry my weight.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_04: Don't want to fail.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_04: Don't want to fail.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: So I just constantly overcommit and then I'm conscientious.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_04: But that takes all your, you're, you're just you're so distracted in a way that um that's how you don't play those obsessive track over and over again.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think in part to this, like I'm gonna be like to be real, everybody's distracted.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's just depending, depending on what they are, are they distracted with.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like the non-contributing passive drifting distraction is binge watching TV, yeah, shopping constantly, right, taking long vacations, dreaming about comfort, living in air conditioned, eating fast food, you know, just getting drunk, getting drunk, doing drugs, yeah.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's true.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Smoking weeds.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: So, but I mean, like, so that's all the negative distractions.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because as humans, I think we're we're constantly wanting to either be entertained, we want to be like engaged in something.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: But what we do, because I I'm with you.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: We don't do a lot of those things.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: We don't do a lot of those things, but we we compound all these things around us.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so we are constantly distracted, but they're always and usually some sort of contribution, purpose-driven thing that that that's true.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: All these 20 eggs that I have, something's bound to work out.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: And at least I can die doing something positive, right?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great excuse, that's for sure.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I use it all the time.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: But look at what I'm doing.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's funny because like for years my partner's been like, you need to get a hobby.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, all right, cool.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I start making videos outside of business.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, like, outside of what you do, man.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I know.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just I got back to it.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or what I do for work.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because I do find it fun.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I uh last year I started getting back into uh comic books.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: I had discovered this writer I really liked and went back into their old catalog and ended up, you know, getting the kids involved.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And now we will read a certain amount of books and then come together and talk about what we thought about the story and stuff.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's been a fun like distraction away that isn't productive per se, you know, because so many of the productive things, it's like, well, I do do other stuff, but all of it is still work.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have to learn how to slow down a little bit.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but like there's a a component I feel very um, very grateful for that was very accidental to finally starting my own business.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that uh my mom was one of five, she was the only one that went to college in her family ever.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm one of two and I'm the first like entrepreneur in the family lineage ever.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there was no like, you know, greasy uncle used car salesman guy that I could learn from or someone who had a business already running.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't go to school for business.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, how do you learn business?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've got no one around to learn it from.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: So when I started doing work um in an agency type model, I was like, well, I guess to start, I'll just treat this like life.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what has worked well for me in life is, you know, underpromise, overdeliver, show up when you say you're gonna and say sorry when you're wrong.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess I'll do business that way.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I've just never stopped because that was the only model I had was how I was doing life as maybe how I could do business.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's a huge benefit because we're a trusted brand and we hire great people, and um, people can really feel the fact that we all do care about our customers as well as ourselves.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So got lucky with that one.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Ready to level up your show?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: At podcastvideos.com, we offer industry leading recording and expert marketing to help your show reach more listeners.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: From creation to distribution, we've got you covered.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Visit podcastvideos.com and elevate your podcast today.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_04: How do you get good people?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_04: Where do you find them and how do you keep them there?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I think the short answer um would be the kind of filtering process we use, as well as oddly enough, because of the space I come from, uh, I've been editing professionally over 16 years.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: That includes doing full production where I'd have to go, say, to the West Coast and hire my team.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I would come with some equipment and then rent equipment and rent people and make the production happen.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: So working with editors, you know, in Hollywood all the way down to someone's nephew in their basement.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've hired hundreds of editors in my career.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it is one of the hardest things ever to find a good editor.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: So to have an agency full of them is like even more difficult because, like you said, you got to not only attract them but keep them around.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: So our filtering process is heavily, heavily focused on communication and availability.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because anyone can edit.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't worry so much about the technical, I worry more about communication and availability because that's what the stress is in our business because we work on like a conveyor belt system where we're editing stuff every day for different clients.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to communicate well and be available.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then oddly enough, the number one thing still makes me kind of laugh thinking about it.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: The number one thing to keeping people around is paying them on time.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because we come from this world where you're always chasing your checks.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're always like, hey man, video's done, spend you know.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the editors that come from the freelance world and join our team is because we farm and they like hunt, kill, eat, hunt, kill, eat.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And some people don't like that constant chase.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: They'd rather come help us cultivate this farm where we have consistent clients and consistent work, and they like the slower pace and all that stuff.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of a one-two punch of paying on time, which is a huge one for freelancers, and then them knowing there's work there to do instead of having to go hunt.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna have to introduce you to my nephew, who actually is a documentary film editor.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_04: He's done some really big work.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: He did the one with the the Obama and um Reagan photographer.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I don't know if you've seen that.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: He was the editor on that.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um fantastic.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_04: He did the one, the latest one was the Lady Bird Johnson documentary, which is fascinating because it's all done in her voice.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: But anyway, he's worked on some really good projects, but his projects were like really long term, you know?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a different world.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is, especially for documentary filmmaking.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not just saying this because you brought that up, but like they're my favorite.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: The the people who come up with those stories, the people who interview in a way that's compelling because someone's just sitting in a chair.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then the editors, of course, that make the whole thing watchable.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's such a great field for talent.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, long, long term.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: So well, what do what do you uh just real quick?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um what do you think is like one of the more uh impactful decisions that you made on getting your bit like getting it from the very first of the startup to kind of crossing that getting to that threshold of second stage growth where you're really growing your company, right?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what do you think are some of the It's not just survival?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: No longer survival, but you're growing.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like what were some of the big decisions that you made back?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh two things come to mind.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: The first is uh when I came out of the forest, um I sent an email to about 32, 33 people from my list.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: They were other entrepreneurs, former clients I became friends with over time, people who are in business of some sort and know the language.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, hey, you know, we've lost everything.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not asking for handouts or anything, but keep your ear to the ground.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to figure out what my next move is.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Would love to have conversations with you guys, see what you're going through and and how, you know, I was very vulnerable in it.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I got 100% response on it.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of wild because if you do email at all, you never expect 100% open rate, right?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Let alone response.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh in there, a bunch of people had said, you know, thank you for being so vulnerable.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is helping me in a time where I'm really struggling, or man, I feel you, it's tough right now, and all those sorts of things.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the word resilient kept coming up because these people know me and they're like, Yeah, I've known you for 15 years, man.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and one thing that makes me feel good about the bad situation you're in right now is that I know you're resilient.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then the final email came in from a good, good friend of mine, Rob Bogan, out of Flint, Michigan.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he said something about the the word resilient as well.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I called him and I was like, Hey, I'm upset with you, but it's not your fault.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Can we talk for 10 minutes?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, What?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, listen, you're like the tenth person to say resilient, blah, blah.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just gotta let you know it's it's like really pissing me off because I just keep hearing this.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you're gonna be fine.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're resilient.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I don't want to hear that.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear, here's 10 grand, do my project or whatever, you know.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right, that's good, right?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm I'm sharing this with him, you know, and he's like, Well, hey, can I tell you something, man?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Your resilience has helped me get through stuff in my entrepreneurial career.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've just never told you about it because I was just thinking of you and what would Dan do, and dah dah, dah.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's a nice sentiment, but still, man, like I'm I'm sharing this thing.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and I said this phrase that just burned into my brain and probably probably will never leave.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I said it out loud to him on the fly.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yeah, that's all great, man.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: But like, when does resiliency become stupidity?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe I should stay down instead of standing up and getting the next punch in the face.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, you know what?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't have an answer for you.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then we just caught up on life and you know, we're friendly and and parted ways.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it really got me thinking of how upset I was that like I have to rely on this resiliency to get through.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I sent another email to that same group since I had such a great response.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, let's have a thought experiment.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: This will be fun.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um if a reporter came to you and they held a mic in your face and you're like, Hey, you know Dan Bennett, right?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you had to say he had one superpower, what would it be?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what would your answer be?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just doing this for fun because it's COVID, we're all trying to figure out what's next, you know.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I got a really strong response on that.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like 28 of the 30 some people responded, and 12 of them, I'll never forget it was an even dozen, uh, said something around your voice.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Either when I worked with you, you kept things so calm.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Even though video can be kind of stressful, or when I took your course, your voice was just like soothing.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: I felt safe.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like I could do this, and it just kept coming back to my voice.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd never heard this before.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, no one ever said your voice is grading.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: I hate it, but like no one ever said it's impactful, it matters to me.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I took those two pieces of information and like let them live instead of just like putting them in a file somewhere or chalking it up to whatever.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I kind of adopted them.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And my resiliency was definitely a first step in where we've actually had trajected growth.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And my voice became something I relied on, not just in marketing and messaging, but like how I, you know, act with clients and how I help people that are stressing out over camera settings and stuff on their end while we're helping to build a studio has really made for um a lot of easy growth.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second component is the diving into editing when it's the last thing I wanted to do.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because I just had a mentor who was like, Well, what if you built it and then you never had to run it?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be kind of cool, right?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Well, yeah, but that's a pipe dream.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, or it's 12 months away.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it's up to you, bro.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I put my head down.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: It took, you know, a little longer than 12 months.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we did it.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we opened up to the public in 2023, there was clients showing up paying full price.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Whoa, I I think it might have worked.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then the first year of 2.5 growth, I'm like, okay, this is enough.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're paying you and I'm eating this first time ever, you know.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next year I was like, oh, this is creating a responsibility.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: What do we do with this money?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a little bit extra, you know, and should I reinvest or should I, you know.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next year I'm like, I think we're on to something and this feels real.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I better handle it with care and and do the right thing.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it was kind of like you said, a little bit more philosophical than a lever I pulled.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_04: But it's definitely been led to growth.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_04: He found out that his voice was a big part of like what his superpower.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_04: Influencing other people, combing other people, you know.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I've been told before I have a face for radio, but I mean, uh beautiful.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's a face for video, which is why we're doing the show.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_04: I got to be the voice of Coin Harvey once, and he was the guy who um who was the founder of um, you know, uh here at the lake um uh with Turn of the Century Resort that went out of business, um, and there's still remnants of it.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I'm talking about?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, it was a video on that.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it was kind of interesting.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_04: But uh, well, this is cool.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's been great, great talking with you, Dan.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Dan, it really has.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: I really enjoyed the convo.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that again, your voice is gonna help people out, right?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: That are listening.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: So it's been enjoyable.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um Dana, do you have any final thoughts you want to give out to any of the listeners that might be, you know, starting their business in the middle of it?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: Anything that you would you would recommend?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been asked this question in some forum many, many times.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you had a mic and there's a million people listening, what's the one thing you would say, you know?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's always been the same, so I just stick with it.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's give yourself grace.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's enough enough trolls in the world, there's enough hurdles, we gotta jump, ladders, we gotta climb, walls, we gotta sum it, you know, um, that we don't need to put extra pressure on ourselves.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm also saying this to myself as I say it to the audience.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but when you do that thing or you tackle, you know, the next problem, or like with a lot of our clients, you start putting yourself out there in this very scary thing called video, and you're you know, being very vulnerable by putting your face out in public and teaching something or sharing something or entertaining.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um every time you come up against a little rough patch, you know, a little sandpaper, just give yourself grace.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's uh been a huge tool for me.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: And how do people get a hold of you if they want to reach out or get a hold of your company?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um for exactly this purpose, I bought a URL years and years and years ago called danhaslinks.com.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: And all my links are there.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: But we're called hot sauce video on every platform, so we're not hard to find.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hot links.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hot links.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, uh, hot links is another thing I just thought of.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_04: Remember, like hot sauce links, yeah.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_04: Just get hot links now.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hey, yeah, you better go get that domain though.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_04: We appreciate your spending a little time with us today, Dan.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's been an interesting departure from our normal harassing the guest that we tend to do.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_04: You your voice calmed us so much, we didn't want to give you shit like the other one did.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: I tell you what, that's not the first time that's happened, so I'll take it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well, until next week, I guess.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_04: We still need a sponsor, by the way.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we do.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: So you think hot sauce videos would sponsor ourselves, Dan?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Dan.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, let's it's worth talking about.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Make you guys, bro.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sweat.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's the first lead we've had after 160 episodes.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_04: Uh no, no, we really appreciate your being here, but this has been another episode of Big Talk about small business.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Dan.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: Appreciate you, buddy.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, man.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, guys.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh take care, man.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's been fun.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com, and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: And be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes, and ask questions about upcoming shows.