Latest / Freedom Flip / When Marriage Starts Feeling Like You're Asking For Permission - EP019

Transcript

When Marriage Starts Feeling Like You're Asking For Permission - EP019 · Freedom Flip

• 0:00
  Our biggest fear is not being accepted by our wife or the girl or guy that we love most. The greatest fear of a man is showing his true self, unrobing as he really is, and then being rejected. That is for a lot of men the equivalent of getting eaten by the lion. So not doing that then means you hide it, and then it creates all this friction because you just pushed it under the rug. Now there's a rug with a bump. That bump is like part of you. When men get rejected by a woman, they feel shame. They retreat to go find something like the internet, pornography, and everything else.
• 0:27
  So you are asking for permission. So you are a f***ing bitch. I'm asking to see if I forgot anything I committed to. She said, if I tried to stop you from just doing what you want to do or know is going to be better for you, make you a better person, you just leave. You need this to achieve your highest self. We had a conversation before we got engaged about three things that I needed to feel ready for marriage.
• 0:46
  Travel was one of them. It is a key part of how I'm growing my business. It's a key part of how I meet people. I don't feel comfortable entering marriage without you recognizing this is part of me and you battling it is going to create a difficulty in our marriage. That should be the individual's choice to become their true self. Your wife is not your mom and you are not a kid anymore. We need to identify what we need as a must, not as a nice to have. I will not negotiate things that I need as a must in my life. The man should not just...
• 1:15
  abide or be controlled where the woman says hey you cannot travel yeah what the f is that you cannot travel like what are we talking about i am still my own person i am choosing to do you want to come what are your fears when i'm gone you're giving up the sovereignty of yourself when you say another person gets to decide where i will be at all hours all day that's not healthy for anyone to have that ownership over a human what drives the relationship and more peril
• 1:41
  Have you seen, I haven't seen the full movie, but it's one of my family's favorite. It's, he's running for president or running for city council. And it's two of the best communities all time. And the guy has pugs and they go, no, no, no, no. Those are China dogs. Get rid of those. We need golden retrievers. We need American dogs.
• 1:58
  It's like the classic politician against this like little nobody. And it's the little nobody's the one with the two pugs. And my mom always had pugs. So we just love, love the movie. And the consultant, there's a consultant that's exactly like what you're talking about. He's like, no, no, no. This doesn't sell. Get rid of that. That's out.
• 2:17
  In the group chat, did you like when a group chat, when a friend of ours said, I need to check with my wife to go to the event? Jesus Christ. Why don't you be a naughty boy? Just sign up.
• 2:29
  I love your comment. I'm like, man, I wish I had that foresight to say that. What, bring her? You should do it with her. It's like, no, you cannot do it with her. It's like, can I bring my dog? Can I bring my cousin? Like, no, you can't. I would flip if she were at least founding something and might be looking at exiting. I think that's different, right? Because there's context. Like, I do think there's really powerful context of a partner being there. Yes, and she's going to be creating an event for spouses. Yeah, you're right. But...
• 2:58
  It's not communism, Peter. You have to bring people that qualify. You're right, otherwise it degrades. Man, talking about degrading, how much are the groups without? It's better. But do you notice? What, that it's better? The difference before and after.
• 3:13
  Yeah, it's just positive energy. It's all good chat. Like it's 99.9% are things, even if I don't agree with them, they feel valuable and insightful. There was just trash getting dumped in, just garbage. And it was like, where's all this garbage coming from? And it's like, when you have one person...
• 3:32
  that has a different goal and no judgment on the person. They just have a different goal. In this case, a person was wanting to flood a chat with whatever thought came across his mind. It destroys it. What was his goal, in your opinion? I asked him on the call and he said, I'm in these chat groups and I use them as my storage place for articles or things I think might be interesting.
• 3:54
  And I said, why do you think we want to be your storage bin? I don't remember the response. Maybe I wasn't listening enough or wasn't trying to listen. It's not surprising. It's difficult to keep up there. I think honestly, it blew me away so much that like my brain shut down. My brain exploded. Like someone thinking that a large chat group of 100 people trying to share helpful thoughts would want just stream of consciousness links of anything interesting.
• 4:20
  I think the comment was, I don't even read all of them. I just share them there because it's like a place I can come back. I think my brain just exploded on that. And I was like, okay, this is a country, a business, a nonprofit, any organization. When you allow someone, as you said, that doesn't align, doesn't share the mission, the values, it decreases. It doesn't qualify, right?
• 4:44
  That is also... But Qualify is interesting, right? Because it could be like, I'm passionate about a nonprofit right now. The Qualify might be, are you passionate about saving the world and this group of people, right? If not, get out of here, right? And I think this is the challenge I look at for nonprofit type of people is you have to be as focused and maniacal as the business world is about achieving your mission. Even at the expense of a member, volunteer, mentor, even donor,
• 5:12
  And that is not aligned to say, thank you. This is not something that aligns, you know, you're not on the right boat. We want to help you get to the right boat. This is not it. And without that focus, right, trying to say, well, everyone could add value. No, not in this context. He or she has a different mission and vision and values. And without that, without stepping up, and this is something you do really well, Pablo, and I'm leaning into even as a people pleaser, recovering people pleaser,
• 5:36
  Without doing that, you hurt everyone else. And you actually hurt yourself and that person too by not allowing the kind, true comments coming out. Instead, you're being the nice guy that allows this BS to live on and hurt everyone. Everyone involved gets hurt in that situation without shining the light of truth.
• 5:54
  I don't see you as a people pleaser. Maybe you are talking about recovering, but it never came across to me, and I would 100% tell you, it never came across to me like, oh, you are a people pleaser at all. And especially because you have such, you just love people, and you are very curious. I know that you call your family that they are golden retrievers. I think that you are the golden retriever where...
• 6:20
  everyone else just feeds off. I mean, it's just because you get very curious and very interested in things and you just go and you just jump around and you are moving and moving your tail and you're always happy and you're always excited. And it's like, oh, I just met this guy. And you are an extrovert also. So you also feed from interactions. And so, so I, I.
• 6:42
  I don't really see you. I never experienced you. This is just my personal observation from the outside. And especially lately with the couple of things that you have been doing, facing certain people and sharing with them your perception, your side of the story, your truth in, man, conversations that are amazing.
• 7:04
  not easy to have and that most people would just shy away i mean like yeah whatever let's just never have this conversation it's it's fine yeah it's fine it's fine don't worry yeah i'm okay it's fine it's not a strength of mine it's something that i'm like i'm trying to build a muscle and i think like working out and that's tying all these things in life every area of life it's core principles like charlie munger
• 7:26
  And Warren Buffett, you know, talked about this. You can apply them in the way you're going to the gym each day. Like I've started saying, I refuse to be out of integrity and alignment with who I am. Because if I am, it's basically putting things under a rug, forgetting you put them under there. And every time you walk across the room, you trip on the rug.
• 7:42
  because they're these like blocks and objects and, you know, things that just collect under there. Not only I, but the other person does. And this is where as a people pleaser, a recovering people pleaser, if we don't hit it head on, we set them up for failure because they don't realize they're poking this spot on me, right? That's actually a wound that I've tried to wrap up. Each time they bring it up, they poke it. They don't realize it's just I'm a six-year-old kid that's stressed out by this topic if I didn't communicate it.
• 8:10
  Right. And maybe that might be something. Right. I had someone I communicated this week around super incredible person, amazing practitioner, what they do. So a really amazing practitioner that I've worked with, I think so highly of. I mentioned, hey, I have like best buddy wants me to wants to do a podcast with me.
• 8:28
  I've been timid about it because I think there's too many podcasts and everyone's starting one. And I'm not one that likes to do things once it's kind of everyone does it. The response was... You told me that you were timid because of that. That's interesting. I think it's, I hate following the bandwagon. My view on most things in life is once the bandwagon shows up, meaning everyone's on, it's just like the incremental value that could be added or opportunity to improve the world or whatever it is, goes down substantially. Yeah.
• 8:55
  I don't want to derail you. We go back to the person, but just letting you know, you never shared that with me because I have so much to say about that. So let's just wrap the story with this person and then we go there. The root of that is just fear. Of? Of being the same as everyone else, you know, doing something that's not interesting, fulfilling, helpful to me, to the world, all of that.
• 9:18
  That's the deeper challenge or fear that it's uncovering, right? And that makes sense, right? I'm just thinking through it. It's completely spot on, right? That's what's being uncovered when I'm concerned or fearful or uncomfortable with it. You told me the other day that you had a conversation with someone that you know that you've been working for a long time or you know for a long time and something very interesting happened. So can you share with everyone what happened? Also, what was your thought process and also any response from her and what happened?
• 9:47
  I was on a call with someone. I've been the client and they're extraordinary. I really enjoy working with them. And this person has been great for like a year. So much so that I'm like, you know what? I just want to make sure this keeps working because I've been really impressed with some changes results.
• 10:00
  You become friends working with in any environment. And on a call, I mentioned, oh, the person said you should do a podcast out of the blue. She said that to you. You didn't say anything. She didn't know. All right. Maybe it was me like not taking compliment. I was like, you know, there's so many compliments already. So she said you should do a podcast.
• 10:23
  I said, ah, you know, there's already so many podcasts, but it's funny. I'm working, my best buddy's like, hey, we should do a podcast. And we've been recording and we're, you know, it's a lot of fun. I'm enjoying it. I love talking to him. And I think I said, even if it's just for my kids, I'm excited to capture this information, this context of...
• 10:41
  what's going on and where we are in the world and our own development and views and nonprofits and businesses and everything. And she goes, I would listen to it. And then after that, but I'm having this concern because there's just so many and everyone's starting one. And it feels like it's just kind of this, you know, inundated space that's not as helpful, which maybe I have a bad view on that period. Like maybe this is great. This is the new form of reporters. And I'm just looking at it with the wrong frame.
• 11:07
  But then it was a flippant comment, not with, I think, intention or negativity. I really don't think that was the intent. But it was, yeah, something along the lines of, yeah, does there really need to be another white male podcast? And I heard that and it just, oof, it like hit real deep as soon as I heard this. Because I'm thinking, man.
• 11:27
  Like that feels like a shot fired around, I could create the best thing in the world. And it doesn't matter because of, you know, something, me being a male, me being, you know, this melatonin in my skin versus the melatonin in someone else's. Like these are very arbitrary things to judge what may or may not be the content created. So, and initially, right, we all have these weak moments where like, oh, just be quiet. You know, the teacher said quiet all my life, put a lid on it.
• 11:53
  Let me also give it to you that sometimes when a comment is so shocking, our brain is kind of like confused of what just happened. And we are not really aware and it takes time for them to realize that was not cool or I am not okay with this thing that just happened.
• 12:11
  So I would also give it to you that that might have been the case. Rather than I am a Christian, I'm just not going to speak up for my white belief. You're also trying to make me sound better. I have to mention there's at least two or three times in the last two years or the last five years since this world's kind of shifted in a different way where I have heard comments like that. And after the fact, I told myself I refuse to let racism and sexism against anyone. Right. This is someone like I don't care what.
• 12:38
  He, she, they look like, act like, seem like, color of their skin. Like, I want to just ask them questions to recognize, do they feel that comment judges someone just on the base of arbitrary facts like melatonin in their skin or, you know, their sex, you know, that's a very arbitrary thing to judge them. So I had already committed to this thing mentally and realized how much I disliked hearing it anywhere. Like, it just gives me this...
• 13:03
  I didn't, right? And I think I was kind of playing through, hey, you should, well, how do you approach this? And maybe there's a little bit of shock, but I'd say it's more me not committing to what I know is right that was making me uncomfortable than it was me with a bombshell. It's the first time that ever happened.
• 13:18
  Yeah, by the way, I'm not trying to make you feel better or anything like that. I am acknowledging that sometimes this happened. Yes, in this case, you might have been a p***er and you didn't say anything. I don't know. That's your own reflection. But maybe just for the audience, sometimes it happens that you're like f***ing shocked. Then you are replaying the scenario in your head. And you're like, I should have said this. Well, chill. Maybe your brain didn't really...
• 13:41
  embrace the whole thing that was happening and then you can say next time next time i'm gonna be so that's what i'm saying yeah one more time you might be like you know what no dude i felt it i was 100 aware and i chickened out blah blah mentally i'd thought through the process of like if somebody says well it's because they're black or white or brown or asian whatever it's like oh okay cool so do you think all people within that group are like that is that all you know
• 14:07
  Just simple questions that kind of shine light on why does someone think this, right? I want to understand. I'm curious. One aside when you said, I think, again, I'm obsessed with flipping, as you are. I love that the society uses the female anatomy as a sign of weakness. And I don't say this of like men or women are weak, but just watching four kids come out of my wife and be like, how does it just opens? Yeah.
• 14:32
  and then closes and it's like in a couple weeks it's fine. It's literally the most powerful like physical manipulation. And I just, it's fascinating then to realize what do we as society do? We be like, oh no, that's a sign of the weak part. It's interesting. I wouldn't say weak. For me, the concept is like, well, it's, it's all mushy and soft and,
• 14:51
  You know, it's like, oh, okay. But maybe that's the fascinating thing. And you actually flip to what should a man be like? You know, it's like, I think the beautiful men are the ones that are very confident. Let's go back to me not being a good version of a man in my own definition, in a person, but especially a man. Somebody says something that's an attack on someone, whether it's me or someone else, instead of asking them questions in the moment and shining a light on it, I shy away.
• 15:17
  Right. That's not what I want to do. That's not who I want to be for anyone that's being attacked. And I think it comes back to this pushing on the carpet. If I just push that on the carpet, I'm going to be more tense with that person. I'm going to have resentment. It's not their fault. It's my fault because I didn't bring it up. I didn't bring up the forefront to help educate them. And why did I not do that? This was the epiphany I had.
• 15:39
  as a recovering people pleaser is, I was optimizing away from short-term discomfort of them not liking me, telling me I'm wrong or bad, and maybe permanently not like me, but relatively low chance. I was optimizing away from that, so I was being nice, right? That's short-term. Versus long-term is just lay it out, be honest, and allow the relationship and them to be their best relationship with them and them become their best self. And me not holding onto this weird anxiety, resentment, just...
• 16:07
  putting it out of the light. Light is a disinfectant. Light is truth. And once I realized that, I realized we are hurting the other person by not letting them reach potential, by letting them live in this false thing. And so bringing it all back to the story, I want to refer, I've referred a bunch of people to this practitioner, think so highly of their work. I want to refer a friend. I know that that friend, he would really struggle in the environment if those comments were made. So rather than set them both up for the situation or even make the referral,
• 16:35
  I followed up later, a day or two later, and I just said, hey, I want you to know this feels really heavy on me. It hit me deep. I've been a little insecure or fearful of doing this thing. I'm getting ready to do it. Hearing that comment gave me a whole new perspective of this concept of people just judging on racist facts of what a melatonin level is, or if it's a guy or girl. That does not make me feel better. That does not help the world. And I look at
• 17:03
  My goal is to call out this kind of racist, sexist stuff in any scenario. This feels like one of them. And I want you to be aware of that. And I'd like to hear your thoughts. Probably there's a little bit of me being just like, probably gonna be some back and forths or some short-term friction. I don't think most humans really enjoy that. I definitely don't. I also just don't enjoy being on the computer, but I'm probably today or tomorrow, I'm gonna open it up and see what the response is and go ahead and engage. Great story. Great story. I love when you confront, like you've been doing several times now.
• 17:31
  Now, let's talk about your podcast insecurities. The interesting thing is that we are recording this. I mean, we have so much pre-recorded that maybe when this pod comes out, we have thousands and thousands and thousands of people listening to our shit. What is the insecurity when you say... Maybe my mom. And that's it. Maybe Pablo's mom. My mom's too busy. She wouldn't give us a shot. It's just one. My mom barely speaks English, so...
• 18:01
  she loves it. We're not sure she understands any of it. That's why there you go. So coming back to when you say about, seriously, you said the space is too crowded. Now everyone has a podcast, which is true. Um, I don't want to jump into the bandwagon when everyone is going, I am with you. I hate when everyone is going this way. I automatically, I'm like, I should go the other way around now. Um,
• 18:31
  I think that that's what this podcast is about. Think about this. Let's just say all podcasts in the world. What percentage of podcasts have an underlying agenda behind the podcast? It's a new tool to promote the services, which again, nothing wrong. Let's go capitalism, go and make money. And I would say for some people, that's fine, but it's also missing a little bit, right? What is missing in my opinion? It's missing the authentic self.
• 18:59
  the authentic self, the truth, because the podcast is just geared to this specific area. Because at the end of the day, you want to continue on a certain narrative because your end destination is, yes, you may love educating, you may love sharing your thoughts, but also you want to convert. You want to click on the link, Arreola, steal Arreolas, get our Amazon affiliate link right there, click on the link, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. So,
• 19:28
  And I get it, right? Not everyone is as wealthy as you and you can just pay for everything in the podcast, right? Not everyone has that benefit of having a very rich man, friend that pays for everything. Doesn't know how to use a computer, but you can hire. You can hire people that just, you hire fingers, right? So they can press buttons for you. I do want to flag we should come back to the computer conversation as well.
• 19:54
  computer conversation. So when I think about what kind of podcast are we creating? It's just two random friends that met two years ago, three years ago in this life that are brothers from multiple past lives. We just reunited again and we just like to get together and shoot the shit and talk about things that we, that we want.
• 20:15
  And that many don't want to talk about. We don't give a f*** if someone listens or not. If this is interesting, people are going to listen. Some people. Some other people are like, these two white dudes, blah, blah. Yeah, f*** you. Racist. So I think that is a very different podcast. Wow. That's deep. What agenda do we have? Find truth. Upgrade ourselves. Talk to interesting people. Talk about interesting things.
• 20:38
  And hopefully someone learns from this, or hopefully someone can challenge what we think down in the comments. Let's go. Let's just go, write. I never thought about that, Pablo. I could see you going on like a bender one night, just like against keyboard warriors. Dude, I would rip their face off. And meanwhile, you're gonna be like, did you see that comment? And I'll be like. I would never ask you that question. That's such a wasted question. That's such an obvious answer.
• 21:05
  Yeah, never see them. I do think it'd be funny though to have my assistant and have someone go through and find the best attacks of all time. Even like a thousand viewers, we need to collect the best attacks against each of us. I will audit yours, the attacks on you, prepare the best ones, hand them to you. And then there's a session where you just say, you do the same for me. And I just go through like, Peter's blah, blah, blah. It's just, those are so good. We need to have like an example of what is a great attack, you know?
• 21:34
  Great attack. Phenomenal. I need to be, when I'm reading yours, I need to laugh my ass off about it. I need to be like, this is hilarious. This is incredible. Well, because it has to have truth. If it doesn't have truth, coming back to finding truth.
• 21:49
  Really great humor is the collision of truth and a lie. So it's got to have like, you know, ideally close to 50% truth, 50% lie, because that's where it's the explosion, right? And I'm not sure about the lie part. Exaggeration. Exaggeration for sure. But exaggeration is still a lie. It's just a fancy word for a lie. Yeah.
• 22:09
  Is it a lie or is the perception of someone? Because for me, lots of the things that you say are exaggeration. My true intent, I used to exaggerate all the time. I used to be an Argentinian. And then I read this book, Truth, about like the three main reasons I try not to lie now. Now, and I've been so impressed because even my wife,
• 22:24
  Like her stories went from 20, 30% exaggerations to now she basically says the things as reality. And I try and do the same. How much do I exaggerate? I would call you out. Well, I mean, it depends how the dynamic of the conversation, but like I would, I would poke you if I heard one. So it's like not often, maybe a little bit about like, Peter doesn't know how to turn on a computer. The only ones that could, and maybe this is just a bias of me noticing or like Peter doesn't even know what's happening in his own house.
• 22:54
  I think those are, but even the word exaggeration, right? I think of exaggeration is a known lie to enhance the, it's the collision of the truth and a lie. If you say exaggeration or lie, they are not, even though an exaggeration is a lie, a lie is not necessarily an exaggeration. Do you see what I mean?
• 23:13
  I like the wording. I just, I have to think through it. A lie. A lie, an exaggeration, it is a lie. But a lie not necessarily is an exaggeration. Because a lie usually has an intent to gain something or deceive someone, where an exaggeration might just be to make someone laugh. Is that an example? Or whatever. Like a lie would be, no, today is Sunday.
• 23:34
  And you're like, no, dude, today is Saturday. No, no, no, trust me. It is whatever. I'm lying. I'm lying, right? But an exaggeration, it is a lie. But I am exaggeration just to make, well, depends, right? Depends on the intent. Maybe this is your DNA from Argentina. Yeah. Coming up. But I guess that's what every time that you're, or almost every time that you're laughing is because I am exaggerating. Yeah, yeah. About something that is true.
• 24:02
  And I'm exaggerating. Or you're going the exact opposite, right? That's the funny thing too. Like when I say, hey, you know, you go to the opposite. It's not exaggerating what is. It's going to the opposite of what is. It's flipping it. I'm not saying exaggerations to create humor are bad, right? Like there's lies with intention to deceive someone to take advantage of them. Then there's a joke, which like, again, a joke, the way I heard described at some point I liked is the collision of a truth and a lie.
• 24:30
  That's why a lot of these people are like, you can't say hate speech and that can hurt someone's feelings. Well, it's because you're getting close to the truth with likely a lie that's colliding. And that truth might make them uncomfortable about themselves, right? Or how they are or how the world perceives them. There is a lot of comics that...
• 24:51
  They do comedy based on truth. There's no exaggeration. It's just a funny way of saying something that is deeply uncomfortable. And I think that also many times they get away because they are comics. Meaning if the CEO of a company says the same thing, it will be like, what are you talking about? Oh, no, by the way, because I am a comedian, I'm on a stage, I am performing an act, then I can say that.
• 25:16
  What's interesting to think about like Donald Trump and Elon Musk as people that like, whether or not you liked, I've gone both ways on liked and hated, right? Whether or not you like or hate them, they are creating comedy and trying to create comedy. I'm trying to think of somebody that's less...
• 25:32
  You get these certain people that say like, I'm going to be whoever I want. Palmer lucky, you know, as well. I'm going to be who I want. Palmer actually said in a really cool speech, he said, I need to say some crazy stuff to get rid of all the short term investors to scare them away. How fascinating of a flip is that?
• 25:49
  I'm not going to say stuff to bring in short-term investors and people that are just retail. You need to scare the heck out of them or else you end up with a lot of people you don't want in your cap table or your equity ownership of your business.
• 26:03
  Fascinating. So a couple of things that I have here. One is I need to check with my wife type of comment. And then you mentioned another one about computers. I am very curious about the computers one. Are you doing a course in the Apple store? Like what are you doing? What's going on? I'm selling a course on...
• 26:21
  how to get off your computer, $9.99. Sign up now, upper corner. Click here. Special discount. Thanksgiving holiday coming up 2025. Gone. It goes to $19.99 next week. So $9.99. So almost $1,000. That's good. It's a good profit margin. I like that. Man of the people. Man of the people. There you go. You rich white...
• 26:45
  taking advantage of poor people. The wild part is how good you play different roles. Like even roles you just grew in. It's the side of either a great intelligence or a sociopath. Which one? Who knows?
• 27:01
  I play roles? No, you're very good at it. Like you can role play into another person, a perspective you don't agree with at all. And I'm saying that's either a sign of you being... Who says that I don't agree? Depends. Exactly. A sign of your extreme intelligence or sociopath. I don't know. I'm a comedian.
• 27:19
  Do you want to talk about those two things? Computer. Well, I don't know. It's just a couple of things that I have here. Let me mention the wife-husband thing first. You'll have strong opinions. Well, I'll go back to a funny story. The opening was we're in a chat group and a friend says, hey, I want to go, but I got to check in with...
• 27:36
  my wife. And this is an event. It's like a business event, right? And this is an event. And I want to give a little bit of- We both went to the same event before. Great event to develop oneself and very, very needed. Going to transform. It'll transform his life and he knows that. Yes. Right. He knows the transformation. This is not like, I'm just going to a conference in Vegas, in Vegas,
• 27:54
  and horrible like that. And also we know this person really well, phenomenal person who has done well professionally, helped grow a business that went public, is financially at a great spot, has help, has family, has a whole support system around his wife. And I wanna say this to clarify, it's not that he's just leaving and it would be a bad spot. So let's assume- Do you want to say his name also? Like anything else you wanna say to uncover the identity of this person?
• 28:22
  His social security number and bank account. And here's his Bitcoin wallet. We'll just add a couple little sprinkle flavor, some flair. But I think the context is important because, you know, a lot of people just never get to a point where there's a good enough support system, whether they have the financial resources or not, or whether, you know, they just live two doors down from family and friends. Has a support system.
• 28:46
  Wanted to go to this trip and then response to the group that says, I need to check with my wife. Now, this is solely will she, quote, give permission, right, or bless his decision to go.
• 28:57
  I don't know. Let's just give it the benefit of the doubt. Right. Who knows what's the reason? Who knows if she manages X, Y, Z and they need to get together? Because here's the part that I'm playing the other side here. Right. The way that you and I operate is we decide whatever we want to do and then we just let our wives know like, hey, I'm going X, Y, Z.
• 29:20
  Done. I don't need to ask for permission. I don't want to ask for permission. Can I clarify? What I realize works really well is that's the most extreme. I'll basically go through a month and I'll say, here's all the trips I'm thinking about. Are there any that you know something that I don't realize or don't know about? A kid's event, a special thing that you want us to go to. And usually it's like, let's say out of four trips, there's one, maybe two that are like,
• 29:48
  oh yeah, I wanted to do this. Can we, let's go do this. And then I'm usually like, oh yeah, definitely. Axe. So you are asking for permission. I think I'm asking, I don't have the best memory. So I'm asking to see if I forgot anything I committed to. You're the most disorganized person ever.
• 30:04
  It's unbelievable. There's some information I'm not aware of. We actually had this conversation. She said, if I tried to stop you from just doing what you want to do or know is going to be better for you, make you a better person, you just leave. And you wouldn't come back. And that's not, we have kids now, that's not the truth. A little bit of exaggeration, but yeah. She's doing exaggeration. This was before we had kids, you would say this. She was like, you need this to achieve your highest self, right? Did you tell her that or she came out, she realized that on her own?
• 30:31
  We had a conversation before we got engaged about three things that I needed to feel ready for marriage. Hookers, blow, and...
• 30:40
  I mean, on the travel was one of them. And I said, it is a key part of how I'm growing my business at the time we hadn't sold. It's a key part of how I meet people, key part of how I grow by seeing new ways to operate. Like I was thinking yesterday, going to India and seeing how they run a family. I was like, this is how I want to, like Indians get it. I need to import that. Like they are so smart about the food, the community, the help, the support system, all these things. They're like an incredible example.
• 31:05
  Had I not gone to the trip to India where my friend got kicked out and sent back to the U.S., which I've told you, at the border. That is a great story. Drop in the comments if you want to hear the full story. Without that experience, we wouldn't live the home life we do because of the beautiful example of...
• 31:22
  of India and a two week trip to New Delhi. And I said, I don't feel comfortable entering marriage without you recognizing this is part of me and you battling it is going to create a difficulty in our marriage versus you accepting, promoting it for both at the time, the business I was traveling all the time, as well as me as a person. And you are always invited, come along. But by you choosing not to join, that can't require that I join you.
• 31:48
  Right. Like, like if we flip it, her saying, no, you can't go or relationship versus no. It's like, well, wait, so that's forcing me to come to where you are versus you coming to where I am. Like, that's where there should be. And in a situation where we disagree, where she thinks her highest self is staying home and I think my highest self is going somewhere else.
• 32:07
  And the kids are, you know, we didn't have kids, but assuming those kids take care of whatever for business, for professional, whatever, that should be the individual's choice to become their true self. So the other person can be the true self and the relationship sits on top. It's the third person that sits. Now, if I start tilting as I'm not my true self, I don't go on that.
• 32:25
  oh, I start tilting, now I'm leaning on her, right? That never works. And I think it builds resentment, it just creates the wrong environment. You're right. And I just wanna go, because there's so many people that struggle with this. I struggled with this in my previous relationship. So what was in your case that you had this realization that I need to have this conversation because if I don't have it, this is the domino effect and this is gonna end terrible.
• 32:51
  Yeah, so I think it was like the impending idea of marriage. I had the wrong view and I think this is great. I didn't want kids until I was 40. I didn't want to get married, really, period. And if I were to get married, it was only get married to then start having kids. Now I've flipped on both of those. Kids knocked me out of the center of the universe. Now they're here and now I go around it. It's beautiful. Religion's another way for people to do that. We shouldn't be the center of our universe. So I think that's one. The other one is...
• 33:18
  Yeah, so if I'm going to start this marriage, I want to be in the right place to where she's not, we're not doomed from the start. If she expects me to suddenly be like her dad or some movie she saw of a husband that does X, Y, and Z, and we don't agree on what that is, it's doomed. And I could feel she was starting to, you know, we were talking about getting engaged or we're talking about all of these things. And I didn't like what her assumptions were leading to. So it's not her fault, right?
• 33:48
  where I am, I, who I am. And it's not fair to her to not show like, here's the package. Do you want it or not? Either way is fine. You know, and I think that's the last thing. I read a book that was really powerful and it basically said,
• 34:00
  I think it was one of the Brene Browns, basically says, shame is the lowest frequency. Fear is even about, is better than shame. Shame is the lowest. And why do we not communicate, especially as dudes, who we really are? Because our ultimate fear is to be rejected in that and to be told like, no, no, no, no, I don't like you now. That was what I had and I was trying to overcome. Wouldn't fear be, because that is the ultimate thing, is fear of being rejected and being kicked out of the tribe.
• 34:28
  I've never thought about this, but I look at fear as fear is kind of like you said, the lie and the exaggeration. A fear could be about I'm eaten by a lion. It can be anything external. Shame, and I don't know that this is true or follows up, but this is my own interpretation as you just asked it kind of downloaded. Shame is about me and the fear of being judged internally.
• 34:50
  It's saying there's something wrong with me internally. It's adding fear to the me, combining fear plus Peter combined. That to me is more of shame. Whereas fear is like, oh, I'm scared about death. Okay. That's still like, cool. That's just like part of our lizard brain. You disagree? Challenge it. Yeah. I like the, what do you mentioned about shame? And I think that makes sense.
• 35:13
  Fear about being eaten by a lion that is nowadays, I don't think that it's very real. That kind of fear. Now the fear of like, kind of like the fear that we were in, we were instructed in the school, which is don't say this because Mrs. Smith is gonna get angry and it's gonna shout at you or it's gonna blah, blah, blah, or they're gonna call your parents. And I think that it's more like.
• 35:38
  being kicked out of the social circle or the tribe or whatever. That fear, to me, that fear is more real. It's all bull, right? But it's more real. And it's real in the sense that it could happen way more often. You can get fired from your job. You can get fired from your company. Your employees may hate you. Your employees may quit. Your investors may...
• 36:03
  reject you until you know. Your company may go under. Your spouse may leave or whatever. Your friends may don't like you anymore and now all of a sudden they just don't want to hang out with you anymore. You may get kicked out of a super prestigious organization. All super interesting. You've triggered a couple thoughts.
• 36:23
  You're hitting deep. So one is, I think the fear of getting eaten by the lion is still there. It's now being used for a lot of things you've said, but it's the same emotional nervous system response. I do have a funny example. Literally yesterday, we're in the
• 36:38
  I have a night nanny with us for a newborn to help out, which we've never done this before. We've had three kids and the fourth one, I said, let's just try this. It's been awesome. She's in her seventies and my father-in-law was like, yeah, you know, there are a lot of alligators and sharks down here. She has been losing it, losing it. Didn't want to go outside looking all over. And I was like, I'm going to go kiteboarding in that ocean. Like every day there's wind. And she's like, what?
• 37:02
  There's sharks in there. And I was like, yeah, there's like a couple people in the globe that die from a shark attack a year. We kill millions of sharks. I think it's going to be okay. And then I was like, and the alligators, I've seen one down here ever. They are doing their own thing. They don't want to mess with people for the most part.
• 37:18
  But I can't tell you, like, it was consuming her for 24 hours. And I think now part of it is I challenge her because she has deep faith. And we were flying down on this airplane. And we got a bunch of kids. We're making noise. We're on the airplane. And she's super stressed. And, you know, she's so into her faith. And I'm like, Bible says fear not more than anything. What are you doing? Turbulence.
• 37:39
  She goes, I look over and you're just relaxed, having fun, and the plane's doing this. I'm here, tense. And I give her a hard time because there's like a deep fear about things. Like I'd call it the lion, sharks, whatever. It's still in her. And that depends on the person. I think that's like one evolution where we're still in the caveman brain of like, oh, we're going to get attacked. Going up, you've switched the caveman brain to, like you said, being kicked out of the tribe. And that scares you as much as being...
• 38:06
  Yeah, belonging, that scares you as much in your nervous system as being eaten by a lion, right? It's just flipping. Because the lion's not here anymore, that's the closest thing we perceive on a daily basis to the lion eating us is like kicked out of a tribe. And then ideally, we can continue to ascend up to realize maybe, and I respect and admire you so much for having a hard conversation in the last couple weeks of maybe I'll be kicked out of one tribe.
• 38:29
  but maybe that tribe needs to end and maybe I'm going to create the better one. I mean, seriously, it hit me in such a deep way of like, there's a third level of people getting into this, whether you believe in God, energy, universe, whatever your belief system is like, getting over that fear to enable the door to open is beautiful. And I commend you for that, man. Those are not easy things to go through or think about. Well, thank you for that.
• 38:54
  I think we were talking about the check with your wife and then we just derail into a total different topic, which is totally fine. But it's kind of connected because our biggest fear is not being accepted by our wife or the girl or guy, you know, that we love most. Truly, you ask why. I read a book that basically said, I think it was one of the Brene Browns.
• 39:15
  The greatest fear of a man is showing his true self, right? Like unrobing as he really is and then being rejected. That is for a lot of men, the equivalent of getting eaten by the lion. So not doing that then means you hide it. And then it creates all this friction because you just pushed it under the rug. And now there's a rug with a bump.
• 39:32
  And that bump is like part of you. And I think I've shared this on the podcast. I found pornography AOL dial-up modem when I was 10 years old. I looked at it every day until I was 27. And then this guy who every woman loved, one of my best buddies, was like, never look at pornography. It ruins your sex drive. It ruins your basically energy that women get attracted to. And I was like, what? I was like, he's lying. He has to be lying. And it's like, no, no, he was totally right. You know?
• 39:59
  you become addicted to this dopamine rush, even though you didn't do the work to earn an intimate situation with a woman. Right. You didn't, you didn't actually deserve that. You just, I'm just a keyboard warrior in my corner, you know, and I was 20, I was 27 years old. I'm 37 now. It's like, that is shame. And even communicating that to her, right. Being like, Hey, Hey,
• 40:19
  When men get rejected by a woman, especially their girlfriend, wife, their wife, whatever it is, they feel shame. And then a lot of time they retreat to go find something like the internet and pornography and everything else. And getting over that to say like, I have these needs, that's the powerful thing that we want to do to show our true self. Or even say, hey, I do this thing. I'm not proud of it. I don't want to. I want to be done with it. I want to put it away for good.
• 40:42
  And connecting it back to the wife, and especially, again, who knows who's going to be watching this, but let's just say that we're going to have some men and we're going to have some women listening to this podcast. And let's just say in this scenario, we are talking about the men that wants to go and do something, whatever that is. It might be going and reconnecting with friends that they are going on a boys trip, or it might be...
• 41:08
  going for a personal development event or going for a business event. And I am pretty sure that a percentage of the people here that are listening, they may say, yeah, I, I feel that I need to check with her. I don't feel that I have the freedom to go and
• 41:24
  Just book it and then tell her that I am going there. So what is, how do you think about that? Which is in this case, our friend basically saying that comment, which again, we don't have all the context. So my own thought is in my own relationship. It's me fearing being rejected by her or not solving her problems.
• 41:44
  that scares me from saying, hey, this is something I really need that I think will transform my business, my professional life, my nonprofit, my personal life, or just keep the relationships with these men that are really important to me. I'm fearing that, you know, I'm letting her down, or she's not going to show me love in the way I receive. And it's just fear based or shame based of showing that true side.
• 42:05
  Now, and I clarify just to say, I don't say, hey, I'm leaving tomorrow. I have. I have done that. And, you know, I still will occasionally. But I will say something like, hey, this is really important to me. I'm leaving this tomorrow. It just came up. I'm really excited. I'm going to go. Is there anything that I'm not thinking about that would cause you problems?
• 42:24
  Right. Let's solve those problems. And I think that the thing I want to separate the topic is one is like, hey, I have kids and I have work tomorrow and I don't know how to drop them off. Can we find someone to drop them off? I'm like, oh, yeah, done. Cool. I want to make sure I separate that because I think that's the wrong way to present is that I'm like, no, you figure it out. I'm gone. That's not how I operate. Now, there's a separate conversation where it's like, no, no, there is someone to drop them off. She has work, but the kids are OK. There's nothing she might miss me.
• 42:51
  right? That's a separate topic of, oh man, I feel so loved that you'll miss me. But I know I'll resent you if I don't go do this and wonder if. I don't want to resent you and I don't want to create problems in our relationship. Do you want me to have resentment because I missed out on this amazing opportunity to grow my business, grow my nonprofit, enhance who I am as a husband? And the answer ideally should be, no, I wouldn't want you to. Okay, great. I was planning to go. I'm glad you agree with that. And it's usually like, she knows I'm going. Now I can reconfirm that.
• 43:20
  I have noticed she's a planner. So telling her the next month or two of trips, her feedback was as soon as you find out about the trip, even if it's tomorrow, just tell me. If it's in a month, just tell me. And I totally respect that because I don't remember like, oh, we're going to see cousin Billy's birthday. And we were going to take the kid for the day or something. I won't remember those things. And that is not fair to then just drop, hey, here's a problem for you to solve. Does that help at least the way I see it?
• 43:44
  Yeah, I can share the way that it works for me. And I think that, again, let's add a caveat here that you and I, we are very similar in the sense that we need to go to events. We need the in-live dynamics of learning and interacting, which other people may not. And we just happen to choose to go to events because we see the opportunity there, which
• 44:11
  I mean, we are not very transactional whatsoever. It's like, oh, let's just go to close this new deal. Let's go raise money. And again, nothing wrong. I'm making a little bit of fun with my voice, but we are just not, you know?
• 44:25
  Our parents were ultra rich. We just got all the money for free. We didn't have to work. I'm going to flag that as all wrong. It just was for a new listener. Okay, well, Peter is a trust fund baby. I work my ass off. I come from nothing. Peter was just born into a lot of wealth. He's a billionaire. His daddy gave me a plane. Yeah.
• 44:46
  Again, new listeners, no plan or trust fund. You will laugh, Pablo. Henry, who you've met, good friend, loves saying this. Just because like the city I grew up, that's a real perception. They don't realize that I went through this situation of having nothing and building everything. And-
• 45:02
  I do appreciate he was like, man, is that frustrating? I was like, no, I don't care. It was actually our friend RJ as well. Is that frustrating? I was like, no, like they can live in that belief system. And it probably helps them feel better about their own view of the world. Like I could have never done that because I didn't have something to start or they think I had something to start.
• 45:17
  So interesting when you said about, I think having that conversation of like, well, in my case, let me just say how it was. Previous relationship cluster in the sense of I didn't understand this about myself, that this was a core need.
• 45:34
  of who I am. I need to go to events. I need to go. I need to fly, drive, whatever it is, arrive to the place, stay there one day, two days, three days, five days, whatever that is in the event. That just fills up my bucket that it's unbelievable. And I am not an extrovert as you. I am an introvert. I get a lot of enjoyment, small groups and
• 45:56
  One, two, three people conversation. Massive parties. You are the guy. You just enter the massive party. You go on the top of the speaker and you are the, how do you call this? Tony Robbins' son. Tony Robbins' son, exactly. I told you, trust from baby. Yeah, Tony gave you the plane. Tony's been an absent father. I'll be clear here. Tony, we won the plane. Tony, I'm your son. Message me. Look at the jaw. Give Peter his plane. Tony, what are you doing?
• 46:25
  Unbelievable. It better be big because I've been waiting for 37 years. Yeah, Tony, you just got a BBJ. Just give the actor. Yeah. He doesn't fit in anything else. Because he's too tall? Yeah. But no, he has a big crew, right? He has a lot of other kids that he recognizes.
• 46:44
  Not this one. Not this one. I didn't make the cut. So Tony got the BBJ. Just give Peter the G650. G6. Trash. Trash. Okay, so what I realized coming back when you said about respecting, resenting her and
• 47:03
  For what I realized is of course that I was resenting my ex, but in fact, what was going on is I was resenting myself. I was not aware about what was going on in myself, within myself. And then I didn't have the balls to even communicate what was going on. Once the relationship ended, I realized this is, even though it sounds fun, I go to this event and this conference or whatever,
• 47:27
  I need this. I don't even know how to explain it. It's so bizarre. I just need to go to this event. And it's not that I am gone all the time, but I may go, I don't know, five, six, seven events a year, something like that. Because those are events that just gives me a massive impact.
• 47:46
  amount of energy in a way that I don't get in any other area of my life or with any other thing in my life so we start dating with my wife then it was a little bit different because I'm like yeah I'm going I'm going to this event and basically she she met me like that she met me already on the road and so she never really questioned anything about that and when we had conversations she basically said like I'm
• 48:10
  Yeah, I guess that for me, I just, I would prefer exactly the same as you. Like once you, you know, and you put it in your calendar, just send me an invite. Doesn't matter where it is. If I just see it there, I'm totally cool. And of course we don't have kids yet. So it's a little bit different. But when we were talking about fears, right? About having kids and so on, I just like, well, my fear is that I am just going to be a stay at home mom and that you're going to be traveling around the world all the time and that you are just not going to be there here.
• 48:39
  And I'm like, that's exactly what's going to happen. You get exactly what's going to happen. Fantastic. I said, okay, that's so then we started playing the scenarios, right? And when she tells me her biggest nightmare.
• 48:56
  Because this nightmare is you do nothing with the kids and the family. And I am just basically left alone having to take care of four or five kids. And I have zero life for myself. I'm like, yeah, that sounds horrendous. That sounds terrible. I'm like, okay, what if you are able to have, how much do you need per day?
• 49:16
  for your personal bucket. Well, I want to do this. I want to do this. Great. What if we find a way that you can have those spaces just for yourself? So that way, and we find a way with myself, with a nanny, with whatever that is, whatever structure, she's like, yeah, that will work. That will be amazing. And then I said, okay, and traveling, let's say.
• 49:37
  I go to seven events a year. What if you come with me, we bring the nanny, we bring the kids, everyone. And we just like get a house in whatever the city is. And I just like, yeah, that would be great. I'm like, okay, fantastic, problem solved. So now of course you may say like, well, easy for you, Pablo, because you may have the money. Well, yeah, whatever, find a way. All I'm saying is there has to be a way, if you are one of us, that you need to go. I, the worst thing to do
• 50:06
  I think that is to fall into the category of people that they have to ask for permission. Your wife is not your mom and you are not a kid anymore. And we need to identify what we need as a must.
• 50:21
  Not as a nice to have, meaning as a non-negotiable. I need this for myself. And we need to communicate that. And to me, that is non-negotiable. I will not negotiate things that I need as a must in my life, which there are not many. Just a couple. The same way that she should not do the same. She should not negotiate her non-negotiables. Whatever they are. It's powerful. The man should not just abide or be controlled where the woman says, hey, you cannot travel. Right? I'm not going to travel. Okay, that's her choice.
• 50:51
  Yeah, what the f*** is that, right? Like, think about that. You cannot travel. Like, who, what are we talking about? The man would not say, hey, you have to travel, right, with me, right, or I can't. Those are extremes, right? It's really covering the middle ground where it says, hey, I am still my own person.
• 51:07
  I am choosing to, do you want to come? What are your fears when I'm gone? Let's find not one of these extremes, but this middle ground. But I think what's so powerful is you're giving up the sovereignty of yourself when you say another person gets to decide where I will be at all hours, all days. That's not healthy.
• 51:22
  for anyone to have that ownership over a human. I don't deserve to have it over my wife. She doesn't deserve to have over me as a husband. It's not healthy. So those are the two extremes. And it's the middle to realize, hey, I'm going because I need to do this. Do you want to come? Are there any problems you foresee while I'm gone?
• 51:39
  okay, if the problem is just you will miss me, this is beautiful that you love me. There's an opportunity for you to grow as yourself. You also can jump on the plane with me or jump in the car and we'll drive there. I think that's the powerful thing is we don't realize both extremes are equally bad for the relationship of giving up your sovereign choice as a human, as a soul to another person, as the woman or the man.
• 52:00
  And I guess that it all comes back to fear. So from a man having to ask for permission, that most likely is rooted in fear of some sort rather than saying, I am going to do this. This is extremely important for me. And then the other side, we're talking about men, it can be a woman saying like, Hey, I am going to do X, Y, Z, cause this is very important for me. Having to ask for permission, crazy, insane, in my opinion. Then, but then on the other side, so the receiving end.
• 52:28
  Like, no, no, yeah, blah, blah, blah, whatever excuse. You said, this is a great opportunity for you to grow. But basically what you are saying is this is a great opportunity for the other person to face their fears. What fears do they have? Do they have fears of abandonment? Do they have fears of, I don't know, the amount of things that are in the house and that they are going to collapse? Maybe it all comes back to abandonment. The alligator.
• 52:52
  and my night nannies. The alligator dying, being left, you know, maybe you're going to go to this conference and you meet a hot chick and then you never come back and you leave me here with four kids. She's communicated this, right? And I've said like, you know, hey, that is a fear that may be in your mind. Let's talk about this.
• 53:08
  Great. But that's my point. That is a great, that is a very valid fear. The last thing that instead of talking with that fear, no, let's just play that I need to ask for permission. And then you tell me no, a third of the time. And then you tell me yes, two thirds of the time. That's so, that's horseshit. What is that? Think about it. What drives the relationship in more peril? Being told...
• 53:30
  You know, you can't go and having that build up of feeling I can't be myself, shame, fear, somebody else controls me and owns me going to the conference and saying, I have best partner ever. Like, why would I want to screw that up? Or why would I want to do something that's not within the agreement we have of our relationship?
• 53:46
  Which one actually puts it in more peril of, you know, that eventual meeting someone else or wanting to leave the relationship? That's a fascinating question. How does the man feel, a man that needs to ask for permission from their wife to go out to a conference, how do they feel when then they go and they are free, quote unquote, in a conference? You're right.
• 54:07
  It's like the helicopter child when they go away from their parents' house or to college or something. And they're the ones that struggle the most because they have their parent right over them all hours. Every decision is made by them. And that's you've seen my parenting approach. What is a helicopter parent? Oh, it's a term in at least America. It means they're a helicopter flying right over the kid.
• 54:28
  Okay. So it's literally like the helicopter is just right over their head. There's a new park that opened. And I want to say two thoughts from what we said. I prefer spending more time with my kids than my wife does. That doesn't mean she's a bad mom. She's the best mom ever. That's what attracted me as a wife. She just is introverted. And after three or four hours, they will zap her energy. I can spend eight hours with them. And I do.
• 54:48
  Going park to park to park. And we were at a park. And it was so funny, because a good friend, she was there with her two kids, I was there with three of my two or three of mine. And she goes, Oh, he's going to be so scared if he can't see me.
• 55:03
  And this is a four or five-year-old that's like 30 feet away. I was like, what? And she was like, oh, yeah, he gets really scared if he doesn't know where I am. I go, he gets scared or you get scared? He gets scared or you taught him to be scared. As I'm saying this, I watch my two-year-old just go walking past him.
• 55:19
  Not concerned, right? A healthy sense of attachment, which is really important, right? There's three kind of primary sources of attachment that we can have towards a parent. We want to push them to have this healthy sense where they're not freaked out. They're not struggling with that. And the second story that was tied to what we were talking about, I got bit by a spider. Did I show you the spider bite I had? It was like tiny. It was like a little speck.
• 55:41
  And then it grew to where it was like two feet wide and it was a bullseye, which they say is a brown recluse spider. I don't know if it was or wasn't. The two funny conversations that come out of that is my friend who's an oral surgeon, a good friend. He's like, you got to get in an office more often. You're out in the nature too much.
• 55:57
  You don't get bit by spiders in an office. The second one was we were at a pool and there was a mom who has like three kids. And I showed her. I'm expecting her. You know, most people are like, oh, you know, it is her. Are you OK? She looks at me square in the face and goes, do not take the easy way out. You will not leave your wife with four kids.
• 56:16
  What? Sorry, I didn't understand. What happened? She looks at this fellow mom of young kids, looks at me when she sees, she immediately sees this huge like two foot spider bite. She goes, do not take the easy way out. You will not die and leave her with four kids by herself. Back to this fear thing, right? It's like that woman is expressing her greatest fear, right? And she's basically like...
• 56:39
  dying is the wimp move that you're doing. You need to get that fixed immediately. And you need to be around and take care of these kids with her, which I just thought was fascinating because men and women have such a poor perception of what is going on in the other's mind or what fears exist without putting them on the table. And that comes back to there's like, the woman who says, I own you, is just as bad as the man who says, I own you, right? We want to promote...
• 57:02
  each person being their independent self while discussing their greatest fears to then build woman man relationship on top. And that relationship on top is, is will fall if either one is not in their best place as a stable person.
• 57:17
  concrete foundation. I love that. Yes. So this segment was sponsored by steel plates, nipplesteelplates.com. Go get, just use Peter is hard as a promo code to get 69% off. Right now for Thanksgiving holiday. Thank you.
• 57:34
  Go. We need to fund the podcast. I need those. I need those redemptions. Guys, we need the money, you know, or go and send a message to Tony Robbins so we can get the money. Yeah, we need that trust unlocked. We need to unlock that trust. Let's go. Do you want to talk about computer? I want to hear your thoughts about computers. I don't know what you're talking about, about computers. I said, I don't get on computers. You told me I'm a bad white man, blah, blah, blah.
• 58:05
  I said, it's a good conversation topic. I said, I hadn't been on a computer since... The last time I was on this laptop was when we finished the call with our friend Anastasia, and it was still up. I have a computer that I keep in my office. I don't have an office. I just have a closet, and I put up a screen and...
• 58:21
  Yeah, I love it. I mean, it's a sign of like, I don't want to be on computers. So I sent the message to the person I worked with for a year about that. Those are the only two times I've been on computers in the last two, three days, whatever it is. And you said, oh, that's because you're bad, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What did I say? I don't say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't know what it's that. It was, you're a bad white man and this is your fault.
• 58:47
  Yeah, it's always your fault. That's it. You have to take it always. Always on. Listen, there's a reason why you have a big chin. So you can always take it on the chin. Okay. You've not said this yet. That was good. I like that. I feel very, very proud of myself. When I make jokes in English, I feel very proud. Let's talk about podcasts. Let's talk about Bitcoin company. Okay. There are a couple of things that have been like a revelation, right? One is
• 59:12
  I think the question that our friends asked us the other day, which is, would you do it alone if Peter was not involved? And I'm like, no. And you're like, would you do it alone? And you're like, yeah, yeah. I'm like, okay, interesting. That's one, because that to me is like, oh, there is a lot of mimetic desire here. I love the idea. I think that the idea is genius, period, end of the story. I also think...
• 59:36
  think that I would struggle do anything 50-50 with you. And I'm talking about anything that is, let's call it for profit, or that is anything that is complicated, anything that requires work, because I think that you have a different set of priorities, which I love, and therefore we are running in different clocks.
• 1:00:00
  How the f*** do you give birth to three kids? Were you born with a C-section? A C-section. And I think about this a lot because I'm so healthy obsessed now. Like, man, I wish I could have come out naturally. But mom, thank you. I love you if you're listening. Yeah, she's not a dog, dude. No, I know. But you pick up all these microbes that help your immune system and your health. When you come out naturally? Vaginally. We have all these years of evolution that...
• 1:00:25
  They're picking up all these natural microbiomes for your gut, for your health, for your immune system. I mean, think about it. For triplets or for someone's going to die, yes. Best thing you could do, modern medicine, thank you. But if you don't have to, and all of the Western medicine...
• 1:00:41
  And Eastern would confirm that. They'd say, you want... Also for the woman. Dude, if you have a C-section, it's a major, major surgery. And then the woman doesn't get to connect with the baby in the same way. And they're like debilitated. And this comes back to the first part of our discussion. The woman has the strongest body part ever. Because it just splits open. Kid pops out. I watch it. And then like two days later, they're like, I feel pretty good. It's like, how does this happen?
• 1:01:12
  But I don't think that is the same reaction when they have the C-section. That is a massive surgery. They have to cut all the abdominals. It's, and what I heard is that most countries or most places, they don't do rehabilitation or anything.
• 1:01:29
  yeah it's tough i almost passed out in the prep to have a kid video where they have like the little cartoon maybe we can find one and it literally it shows like in a c-section it's a cartoon woman and the doctor slices the belly open lifts it like the hood to a convertible grabs the kid out i i she said i went gray watching the cartoon weird concept
• 1:01:51
  All right, so let's go back to Bitcoin company, right? So that's kind of like one thing that I, these two things that I discover in, I love the jamming. I love the, let's just go and talk. And I love that. I can do that all day long. But I think that if I was doing this alone, to me, this is a complicated business. It's not a simple business. I am a simplifier. You are a complicator. You thrive in all these complex things. I am a simplifier and a person that needs to be in charge. I can be.
• 1:02:20
  not in charge well i don't know but let's just say i i think that i can not be in charge if i am not really i wouldn't say care because i care about it but if if someone else is driving if this looks like we are both driving the ship it's very hard anastasia you and i both can sit there and listen because we know we're receiving knowledge and this is a great driver that is doing a great job
• 1:02:45
  And one other thing, just hearing what you're saying, I assumed everything you said, and I knew we would have a discussion and it wasn't something felt, I felt those comments and I could assume and feel your thoughts and energy. I think the other thing is to your earlier point, if you have a timeline and a schedule you want to achieve, and I have a different schedule, that creates real complexity, even more so on a business, right? Of like, hey, I want to get here by Monday. You want to get here by Friday. It's Thursday. It's just different approaches, right? And then this is right.
• 1:03:14
  every hour I spend away from my kids while they're awake or not in school, to me is like a lost hour. Now I know I can get way more done than most people in 35 hours while they're at school during a week. But that's kind of like what I want to do right now. I don't want to do more than 30 or 35 hours. Very top. Like if I'm driving hard on something.
• 1:03:33
  Yeah. And again, we never had conversations to talk about expectations, timelines, delivery, deliverables, and so on. And I think that at the beginning it was very, very natural and we were very, very excited. And then I have the sense of like, okay, this is, let's go. And naturally it didn't occur in, let's say in my preferred timeline. And then I started thinking, well, this is, literally I'm like, I am not feeling this. Can I be, you know?
• 1:04:03
  The Charlie to the Warren. Yeah. There is a question that at one time people ask. They're like, Charlie, why, if you are Warren's partner, why you are not as wealthy as Warren? And then Charlie says, like, well...
• 1:04:19
  Warren works way harder than me, which I don't know the dynamic, but to me, it sounds like, well, Warren is the leader. Warren is the person leading this ship and Charlie's the right hand. Charlie's there. I wouldn't call it an advisor, but he's there, but he's not the person that is in charge of the ship.
• 1:04:44
  In this kind of business, I would love that. But for that, it means me, I'm just to decide. And then it's up to you to what role do you want me? And then, cause you may say, Pablo, I want this role from you. I want no role from you. And then it's for me to be like, I am cool with that. Or you know what? No, that's, that doesn't match what I really want to do. And this is the reason.
• 1:05:09
  A couple of things. Just hearing our friends give feedback, another great example. I assumed everything you said was going to be the case or was where you'd go. I think the second is I do think about like the things I'm doing right now, which haven't given a play by play, but reaching out to business owners that have businesses that I think should never sell, like banging down their doors, not getting answers, finding a different way and getting a friend to connect.
• 1:05:31
  I don't think that's stuff you enjoy or want to do. Like, I don't mind it because it's kind of the fun gorilla hunt in the wild of like big game. It's something I've done my whole life and I enjoy trying to get connected with them. And then the financial model, it's like, that's a very complicated, you know, iterative process that I think we're on our third or fourth version. That's probably going to be 80 or 90% there. Where I think your gift is like seeing me do all this stuff and then be like, all of this is bad.
• 1:06:00
  That is really good. Like that little piece, just do that, but none of that. And it's like, I'm just being random, but I'm being honest, right? Like your ability to parse through that is like your gift. That's really insightful. And even do I want to do all of this stuff
• 1:06:16
  Like, no, yes, but I think it's, I'm enjoying it still. One other piece I didn't tell you is I'm really getting a lining on health. I mean, you know how weird I am about all this health stuff, right? So, and weird, like I own the weird stuff. It started me in an
• 1:06:32
  I have to thank you, right? Planting the seed of the idea in my head, all of this, even your business of being a health-related business. The health vertical gets me so fired up because it's kind of like Amazon when Jeff Bezos said, what's not going to change in the next 10 or 20 years? People want it faster and cheaper. Okay. Well, what's not going to change in the age of AI? People want to be healthier and live longer. Oh, okay. Healthier and live longer. What is that? Oh, that's health.
• 1:06:59
  And I don't care if a robot's there. I don't care what. I want this body to live at a higher level of health and live longer. That is a great thought. That's the main reason why the lifespan just keeps increasing over the history of humanity. Because we want not to die. I was like, cue the Rain Man from the Bachelor Party movie. Where that actor is the one that owns the pugs. You know what I'm talking about? Alan from...
• 1:07:26
  You know, we always use it and he's like doing the numbers in the casino. Rain Man. Yeah, but it's not the actual Rain Man. It's like the, it's the recent one they've had, Bachelor Party or... Yes, The Hangover. Hangover. That's it. The funny brother or brother-in-law from Hangover.
• 1:07:44
  He is the main actor in the movie I talked about earlier where he was the political candidate as the average Joe that owned two pugs. And the political consultant was like, had someone come and take the pugs and then replace them with two golden retrievers. I went like kind of – when I started thinking health, it was like, oh my gosh, this. And whether or not supplements is part of it, different discussion. Yeah.
• 1:08:07
  But things like, oh, how do you senior homes that actually help you live longer and healthier? Oh, like the exercise that you said, I'm getting scammed that I believe in a big way, right? Like that company who I happen to know, the biggest competitors, the founder. All of these companies. And I started thinking, how do they help each other? Right? Not in a forced way, communist.
• 1:08:28
  In a, you own your own business, we're just sitting at a table and now we're partners. Let's accelerate. This is where a lot of this, I haven't been blowing you up on because I'm like still digesting and thinking about it. But it is like, because I know that I will be excited about health, the topic of health for the rest of my, like, what do I talk about to people? Health, Bitcoin, Tesla, and like going in the dark caves within yourself to improve. And parenting, right? And I actually think health could include, I have an idea around the parenting with the old people and connecting it.
• 1:08:58
  So that is cool. So you are excited about the health vertical and all these different businesses. Yeah, because I'm kind of thinking that here's another way to flip it. If you didn't have to do anything at all, what would you do anyway? Because it gives you excitement and energy. And like, I think that leans in or what problem that plagues you do you like to talk about, think about and work on? For me, it's like living a balanced, aligned, healthy life. That's one.
• 1:09:23
  And even the investment stuff, I actually don't want to think about that stuff. And that's why I'm so passionate about Bitcoin, Tesla, and these other things, because it allows me to just put a lid on it, push it out, you know, put it in the can, put the lid on it, push it out of the way, to then kind of focus on living the least stressed, the most physically active relationship, good relationship life I can.
• 1:09:43
  And this enables that because I'm going to be searching for those businesses anyway. I'm going to be searching for these products that most people come in and are like, Peter, you're getting scammed. I actually really don't think I am. Now I can understand how it looks and it's all old people there and me and it's a lot of weird red flags. I'm okay with that. I'm the weird guy that shows up to those rooms anyway and enjoy that.
• 1:10:06
  So a lot of this I've been slowly pulling together over the last, whatever, week, two weeks of kind of the thesis or the belief of like, hmm, that feels right. Like this is starting to feel even more attractive to keep a – and healthcare is too specific a word, right? It includes hospitals and blah, blah, blah. Health is broader to say like –
• 1:10:31
  What is the broad – because even like health insurance might be tied in. And I love insurance. I love that Berkshire does insurance, right? Like that's interesting, right, getting into the global insurance, right? Maybe you have a unique model around the people that actually do all these healthy activities, right? Because then they're not paying all the premiums because they don't need all this other stuff. They're finding the root causes, not waiting to take the magic expensive pill or surgery.
• 1:10:55
  So I went off a little aside, but this is what I'm rolling around with. The model is, let's say, probably 80% done. I'm going to review that. Hope to get that done kind of this week, next week latest. Teeing up some of the meetings now to kind of talk, but I've been doing test run meetings. And I had a really good meeting with a buddy Friday who has a great business. He's too small. He's probably like $2 million to $5 million.
• 1:11:21
  Two headed towards 5 million in EBITDA. Has a health business that does orthopedic devices. And I gave him the whole pitch and talked, you know, by pitch, talked him through everything. He's like, dude, I really like all this. He's like, this makes a lot of sense. And I was like, okay, great. And I think he's probably a complicator. So it's probably a little bit easier for, you know, for me to communicate in a way that he gets anyway. But then I go, okay, what's the biggest weakness? Yeah.
• 1:11:48
  Because I wouldn't lead with Bitcoin. And I was like, wow, that's interesting. Yeah. And I think what I look at with that is it's true. And I think even how I say it, true is the hard thing. It still is the intention. But leading with it, I think, overwhelms people, especially most of these people are so busy running their business. It's like our friend Johnny. They just like hear, you know, the Jim Cramers or the Jamie Dimon.
• 1:12:17
  CEO just say stuff and they just like kind of see this as authority figure. Okay. This is fact. But not only that, you also have to consider that these people, they, they, they didn't solve the fear, the, the safety bucket that our friend Anastasia teaches. So,
• 1:12:34
  Different stories, if you are talking with a person that in addition to be an entrepreneur and a successful business person that owns their business, in addition to that, they have put more than 100 hours of research, not headline reading, in Bitcoin, then it's an easy conversation. Then you can flip it and you can start talking about the best asset, the best form of money ever created in human history. And then...
• 1:12:56
  the whole business and so on. But I agree with his feedback. I think that leading from Bitcoin and then the rest, to me, that is too far-fetched for people. And especially because right now, in their mind, it's like, oh, it went from 125 to 80. What are you talking about? This is garbage. And meanwhile, we're like, this is great. This is the third time I've experienced this. Everyone else is like, I bought at 120. This shit.
• 1:13:24
  Exactly. So that's why I think that the biggest strategy here, and now we are just riffing again, but to me, the biggest strategy here is we are best option that doesn't exist. This option does not exist for anyone like you. Your option is getting f***ed by private equity, period, end of the story. That's your option. Strategic maybe. Maybe you are lacking, you can sell to a strategic, lacking, quote unquote.
• 1:13:48
  That's it. The other option is you just keep it forever. No diversification, big concentration of risk. What do we do with treasury? That's a different story. I even said it a lot like that, like all of that. But at the very end, I kind of was like, yeah, and we'd like to hold the asset that you never want to sell.
• 1:14:07
  I had to go nibble on it. And the funny part is like he started buying because I sent him and like 20 friends two years ago an email. It was actually, it was like probably right after your birthday, after you red pilled me. I sent an email to friends and I was like, hey, I'm trading all my portfolio out for Bitcoin and Tesla.
• 1:14:22
  And I was like, you're not going to get these emails. I have no incentive in this. I'm not your wealth manager. I'm just telling you what I'm doing. And these people sent me emails like, I can't believe I bought one-tenth of what I should have when I got your email. And he was one of them. So he's bought and he's on the journey. But...
• 1:14:38
  All of that feedback's right. And your point is totally right. It's just a treasury topic. And we should lead with a strong man, which is just, this is the fourth option you've always wanted. Not, hey, we're going to solve every single investment decision right now before the business is even formed.
• 1:14:53
  This is the fourth option that you don't have. This is the only option that is going to give you cash flow. This is the only option that is going to give you instant diversification, all these different companies. That is going to put you together in a group where everyone is incentivized to feed each other and to win with each other and to help each other because now everyone owns a piece of this. And you don't need to become a perfect investor. You don't need to go on. You don't need to now have...
• 1:15:19
  Private equity gave you 10 million or 15 million or 20 million or 30 million or whatever the number is. And now you need to be like, how the f*** do I invest this? Because, yeah, maybe you have an investment portfolio of a million bucks. Now you need to become an investor. You're going to stop working in the thing that gives you fulfillment. And I know that you were told, you think that the grass is greener once you sell and you have nothing to do.
• 1:15:40
  That's not how it works. That's not what happens. In fact, a whole different sets of challenges come when you sell and you have lots of money and nothing to do and zero experience as an investor. So anyhow, to me, that is the pitch, which I think that not many people will believe you right away. But I think that if you lead that with, I am doing all this to buy Bitcoin, or I am doing all this because...
• 1:16:04
  This is the last company that I will ever start. You can say that to a person like our friend. He will be like, dude, I mean, let's do this. But you say this to a person like our friend, when he was working in his business for 20 years, he would be like angry. He would just hit you in the face. So that's my only, especially I am also thinking, and I don't know enough about these types, these archetypes of business.
• 1:16:28
  business owners, but if this is a very, let's call it, boring traditional business, most likely boring and traditional businesses are run by boring and traditional people. And I don't mean this in a, I'm sure that they are fun people, but I don't, I mean, they are not into the innovation front, most likely, maybe some of them, but most likely they are into, I have my retirement account, I buy the SMP, that's it. I read and watch CNN, CNBC, Fox News,
• 1:16:57
  to get the latest news of what should I be investing. I just delegate my investment because I just like to operate my business. That's what I like. And I've been operating my business for 15 years and that's what I want to do.
• 1:17:09
  Well, you're right. And it's almost putting an area they aren't interested in or don't get energy from in the front of the conversation versus saying, here's the piece, here's the strategy. Here's your fourth option where your business is not going to go to zero, where you are not going to lose purpose. You're going to keep doing what you love doing. We're going to help you remove all that you don't like doing. You are going to keep part of your business. You're going to keep part of the cash flow.
• 1:17:33
  Man, this is the best option. If you love your business, this is the best option. If you don't love your business, get out. I don't want to see you. Sell it to private equity, for sure, if you don't love your business. I have some strategic thoughts around some of the businesses and how they connect. I don't think it's worth diving into right now. Anyhow, all this to say, I love riffing on this shit.
• 1:17:49
  Why don't you just tear me apart? Like truly for the time being to reset it, I'll do updates, I'll do work and you just tear it apart. I'm serious. Like, I think that's a good, a good reset of expectations on both sides of like, you're going to not know everything. I can kind of put it together every week, couple of weeks, month. Whatever you want. All I'm saying is I prefer to just right now I am in the car. I don't know if I am driving or not driving. Sometimes you drive, sometimes I drive. I don't like the setting.
• 1:18:16
  Because you have four cars that you are driving at the same time. And I'm like, I don't want that, you know? One car has four kids yelling. I feel like the fourth wife here. I don't know when I'm going to get your... I don't like what I am getting here. So I prefer to, you know what? Let me just go to my house.
• 1:18:40
  You come and drive past whenever you want. I jump in. We chat. You return me in my house. Everybody wins. Look at this South American opening up. That sounds great. And I honestly, I do appreciate you sharing, diving into it. You know, this is the fun part just for the record to make everyone laugh.
• 1:19:01
  Pablo and I had an idea. We got excited for like 48 hours while we were together in Spain. As soon as I leave, he texts me. He's like, ah, this doesn't feel right. Which is like super respectful and super right. And I was like, kind of sad, depressed to the first one. I was like, ah, he's right. He's right. And I don't need to be attached to this. I don't want to be attached. I want to be attached to him and the friendship, not to some business idea. A year later, we're like, it's another idea. I'm like, this is brilliant. We go all in. And he's right. Yeah.
• 1:19:26
  The point was we're working through not the fixation on it will be this and we've decided, but riding the wave of like what feels right, where's the right direction. And you have been correct on both. The first one, I was a little slow to feel it. This one, I'm on the same page and I was on the same page the whole time. Like I feel like we've transitioned to these thoughts at the same time. And the other thing, I feel it just became also a very good realization of
• 1:19:51
  Being in Anastasia's event and realizing this combination of simplifier and complicator, you are a complicator and I am a simplifier. And that is a struggle because for us simplifiers, everything has to be simple. For you as a complicator, you like the intricacies. You like the go back and forth and so on.
• 1:20:14
  And that, as a simplifier, that drives me crazy when I see that it shouldn't be that complicated. Different stories if we are building rockets, that's a complicated business, right? It's a lot of moving parts. So that is another part that I'm like, ah, this is taxing for me if we are going to be 50-50, let's say. Meaning you drive, I drive, you drive. And in addition, but I also think that you having four different cars that you are driving at the same time, that is also challenging.
• 1:20:44
  All right, perfect. So I go back to my house. You pick me up whenever you want. I bring the condoms. Good, done. Pablo, what are these holes in the condoms? Did you poke holes in these condoms? I was missing you that I bite them. I beat them.
• 1:21:04
  Think about this once a week, if not every day, about your comment about the mindset. I had locked myself in a prison of a mindset that was, hey, I am going to be... And I do think there's something beautiful to want to be the poor person in the room from a learning about business. Now, I learned in a lot of those rooms, I was actually the wealthiest person ever.
• 1:21:21
  in life, even if financially at that moment, I was at least financially wealthy. And that was a great gift to learn by being around. But dude, I upgraded myself for so many times, but you really uncovered me. Hey, Peter, you're in a prison of thinking you're always going to be that.
• 1:21:37
  Versus realizing this is just a momentary situation. And actually, dude, it shines such a light on the work I've done for five years to try and improve my thinking and systems and internal understanding to be a clearer thinker. That allows me to go a hundred times faster when I start a business. And, you know, I had one small one that I'm an investor in that's going well and partnered with someone. And that was a clear example because I just kept helping us go up rather than laterally.
• 1:22:03
  But I had never unclicked where I was stuck. I had the key to the prison door and I wasn't reaching around, putting it and opening it of like, oh, I'm always going to be in the situation of this current status. Big. Do you want to switch to the podcast now? Yeah, let's dive in. All right. So right now we are clocking 100,000 subscribers. So what do you want to do? Change nothing. We are number one. No, number two in the category white male douches.
• 1:22:35
  Dude, that should be the subtitle. Seriously. We should own this statement. Does there really need to be another podcast with rich white dudes? Oh, you just added rich. Okay, let's just say white dudes. Yeah. That's a pretty funny line, actually. Peter, am I white? Yes, very. Look at you. I am Olive. Shut up. But I think that the important part is to identify...
• 1:23:02
  Okay, who is driving what and what are the deadlines? So that way we are in line and we are on the same page of like, what are the expectations? So let me just start from the beginning. The vision or the idea, the vision is the following. We have fun. We meet whenever we want, hour and a half, two hours a week, random podcast like today. That's the vision. Okay.
• 1:23:25
  It gets recorded. It gets distributed everywhere. And whoever finds value will listen. And then we sell our courses. That's it. And we finally quit our jobs. And we can finally quit our jobs.
• 1:23:43
  But that's the vision. We just put it out, right? We have fun. We don't really take care of anything else. We have unique access to some brilliant minds going through brilliant transformations in their business life and their personal life and whatever part. And it's not a timeline. It's not a, we need to start doing this tomorrow. But I still think bringing them in in a way where this can be the hospital, this can be your, you know, two business advisors or life advisors that are...
• 1:24:12
  who both love to kind of transform lives. That is a component I'm very excited about. Now, is that a big difference from what you said? No, not at all. It just means there is a, allow them to have a calendar of dates we're playing to meet. The one other piece I want to shine a light on too is, and it's funny though, this is to teach people to go into things that are uncomfortable. I had zero calendar invites that I had to go to in a week.
• 1:24:35
  And you're like, hey, let's try this. I was like, I don't want it. I don't want it. And it was like, truly, it was like I was going against my former booked calendar schedule. And this was the first thing I broke on. Now, I did the first. I was like, that was fun. The second was like, this is really fun. And it was like, okay, which there's just trade-offs.
• 1:24:53
  do I want more fun and Pablo and a little less control over my calendar? Or do I want full control of my calendar and way less Pablo? I was like, okay, the answer is clear. And that's when I went in, right? And I had to grow too because time zones have been tough, but I didn't communicate proactively. Hey, I need a certain hour and it created tension, right? Because I was not delivering on my agreed part at the 10 a.m., but that was a great growth for me. So I think the only things I'd add to everything you said is, one, I'm okay with more...
• 1:25:21
  Regular, reoccurring, not one day, because I think one day would overwhelm us. And part of the value is spreading them out. And second, I do want to bring in incredible thinkers, minds, people to challenge who choose to have a common goal of solving a deep, important, oftentimes uncomfortable or private problem.
• 1:25:41
  that we get to ride sidecar. And how do we measure, let's say we have an interaction like that. Some, a person comes and we have whatever, one hour, two hours conversation. How do we measure if that was successful or not? It's how you and I feel. One to 10. If we don't both feel an average of the two numbers above, um,
• 1:26:01
  Seven, something's going wrong. Either we pick the wrong person or this is going in a weird way. Give me three options of how can we measure this. That's one option with numbers. One is think numbers immediately after. One is 24 hours later, like let's sit on it of how we feel the next day or how we're feeling post. And a third might be,
• 1:26:20
  let the editor, producer, whoever give us the feedback of like, what does a normal person think of this? Why do you care about what the normal person thinks about this? I don't. I was just trying to fill a third option. I can come up with one for you. Yeah. Give me a third. After the call, the question is, do we have more energy now or do we have less energy? Yeah. And I said one in 10, but that's really it. More or less energy.
• 1:26:45
  When I kind of think it's almost interesting, it'd be interesting to know what about after the call, what about a day later and what about three days later? Because those are kind of different. That's interesting. I don't really think like that, but I think that it would be easy for me, the call ends and to say, okay, write it down. Do you have more energy than when we started or do you have less energy? And then why? The only reason I like the numbers is because the numbers give a little more specificity around like, dude, after every call I have with you,
• 1:27:13
  I'm a nine out of 10. Other than maybe the one we had when we were talking about where I called you the next Saturday morning after Friday call, and maybe that was a six or seven. Still, it was high, but it was off. I just think getting more granular forces us to be more specific. And then because then if we have numbers in a spreadsheet, this is maybe the investor side of me. It's your complicator side.
• 1:27:36
  I'm complicating. No, no, no. That's the way that you process. You want to create a complex system. And for me, it's like more or less. That's it. So the only reason I say this is because I get excited if I look at 30 interviews and we can then hone in on the eights and nines and say, oh, those are all related to them with their wife or husband. Or those are all related to...
• 1:28:00
  them with their business, right? Each of those interviews almost was exclusively focused on this topic. As we look at those, to me, we both agree it's the level of complexity we want. And maybe we could add like something what I'm saying on later. It just forces me to go a level deeper than just thumbs up or thumbs down. Yes, but to me, the level deeper is why. So to me, this is black and white. So if they say, okay, Jake, more or less, and I have no interest in that.
• 1:28:26
  Because I'm a simplifier, I like to start with a simple tool and add layers when we see that the simple tool doesn't work.
• 1:28:35
  rather than the other way around. And now we know the mountaintop we're trying to climb. And we have to agree. We're like, I like this goal. Okay, let's go for this goal. And if the person says, I want to find truth in this aspect, that's it. You gave me the green light. I am going for it. That may even be better than asking the goal. What truth are you trying to discover or understand? It almost makes them think a different way.
• 1:29:00
  I think that it's easier maybe to ask about the goal first because the truth is like, what do you mean? The truth? Like, I know the truth. I just, I just want more money. I just want this problem to go away. I just want, that's the truth. It's like, no, dude, that's not the truth. Yeah. Maybe it's what's the problem you're trying to solve and the goal you want to achieve or something. It's something like that. Too complicated. Very simple. This.
• 1:29:27
  Hey, I want to meet with you guys. Like, awesome. Fantastic. That would be amazing. What's your goal? Like, such an open-ended question.
• 1:29:37
  And then most likely it requires a second question and a third question to get deeper. Like, ah, okay, got it. So you want that we poke holes in your financial strategy so you can feel safe and sleep good at night. All right. I agree with what you said. The goal might be, I just want that you help checking some investments. That's a terrible goal. Let's just dig deeper. Okay, but why is that important to you? Why do you want, I can't do this on my sleep. This is like easy for me.
• 1:30:05
  And then we get into, ah, okay. So I'm happy to drill people to get to that point of what's the goal of the meeting. And I think that it's just going to become so, so the bottom line is I agree with you. I just don't want that this feels like work. If Pablo or Peter dive into details that don't matter, just ask the question, hey, what, let's come back to the goal. Oh, Peter pulls out, Pablo pulls out. And the third realization was we need to ask way more questions. And it was like, those three things have been magical. And I still use them when we're talking of like.
• 1:30:33
  you know, don't talk over slash pass the ball. When I go too deep or you're going too deep, like we trust each other enough to say, what's the goal? And that's a flag like, okay, Peter, you're down on some weird edge topic. And the third one is ask more questions of the person. We want them talking more than 50% of the time working through the problem. And we're hopefully guiding them in the best path with phenomenal questions.
• 1:30:55
  Yes. So let's just go back now. The answer is yes, Peter, I agree with you. We can have as many people as we want. Are we aligned on the goal? Do we have your green light to perform this procedure?
• 1:31:08
  And I think we both have to always agree because if only you agree or only I agree. There's no way, Peter, that I agree and you don't agree or the other way around. I like flipping things. For example, we're creating a new member group. Let's not think about how to add people. Let's flip it to think about how are we going to remove the people that don't align with us.
• 1:31:28
  and aren't additive. We're both talking about, hey, let's have really good speakers we're excited about. I don't want to talk about when we both agree. I want to talk about what about when Pablo thinks it's going to be additive or Peter thinks it's going to be additive and the other person does not. Yeah, that's a complicated thing. It's Charlie Munger flipping. You are Warren. I am Charlie. But the reason we get along is because I love these first principles.
• 1:31:48
  Yes. Like when I'm using first principles, they're very simple and they're razors, right? They're not mine. They're world truth's natural law. Prove me wrong. Let's see when we have a case where I am like, I don't want to, I don't think that this person deserves a meeting with us because...
• 1:32:06
  This person is not interested in pursuing the truth. And you may be like, I still want to meet with the person. I'm like, okay, go for it. Then tell me how it went in terms of energy. Tell me how many questions you asked. Tell me how, let's see what happened. Well, it kind of comes back to the wife and husband conversation that we had earlier of like, neither of us can force. So we need to come to the middle ground of like, why are you feeling that way? Why do you think he's going to be great and I, or she's going to be great and I don't. And so I agree and it's not a problem right now. So let's kick the can.
• 1:32:34
  This is what complicators tend to do, right? So let me just explain for everyone listening here. Complicators, and in your case, you might be a creator and you are still trying to identify something that you might not be. So you are in this transitioning thing and... I knew you were going to go there. You don't know your identity. You are a him, he, she, they, them, birds, dog, cats. So...
• 1:32:56
  We don't know yet, but this is a typical thing, which is I am focusing on great. We know that we want to build this massive building that is going to be the best building in the world. And yes, it's going to have a gym and it's going to have a swimming pool. It's going to have a sauna. It's going to be a spa, the whole shebang. All right. We need to find a plot.
• 1:33:16
  And then you're like, okay, what a single window. But I'm just thinking about, listen to this, okay? The wallpaper that we're going to use in the spam. I'm like, Peter, shut the f*** up, Peter. Let's find the f***ing logs so we can start. No, no, but listen.
• 1:33:30
  Okay, the front door, wood or metal? Oh, my gosh. Wood's warm. Because, I mean, I was researching for three hours at this place in Italy where the wood, you have no idea. It's an incredible story. The birds. This is very important. This is so important. You have no idea. I got so excited. I was just, I'm like, Peter, I'm just hustling here. The lights just turn off. And when you walk in, they come back on. I'm finding lots to try to get this thing. It's like, no, no, but just the wood. Oh, my gosh.
• 1:33:59
  It's unbelievable in these vineyards. What to me is not natural and I don't want to do because that's just not in me, is setting up the operations, setting up the systems, hiring, firing. Can I do it? Of course. Is it the best use of my energy?
• 1:34:21
  That instead of me being, as we know, we have, we have creator or artist operator and investor. Is it the best use of my time that I spend time as an operator? No. In fact, that's usually when I create complexity and chaos, because now all the sudden I am.
• 1:34:38
  creating an idea of how the business should run and so on and so on and so on. And that is not a good idea. You come up with the best plan. Totally agree. Another would be this guy that does it professionally, hearing an idea about him kind of creating a plan, what his plan would be. And I'd say a third is just a company that may like say they do this turnkey, whatever. I just go back to who is driving this? Who is the operator? Who is the driver? I mean...
• 1:35:08
  I think you're right. You're challenging the assumption of who assigns the company or picks the company. Someone needs to put in the groundwork of finding a way to take this and make it a reality. Everything starts with the person that we communicate. And then that person that we communicate goes and finds the tools, the people, the systems to then get it done and make it happen.
• 1:35:34
  The driver says, I found this agency. They're going to charge $3 million per episode. No, we don't want them. Thank you.
• 1:35:41
  Of course, a great driver would already make that decision on their own, but we need someone to drive it. I suck. I can get it done. I suck. You can get it done. I think that you also suck. It doesn't come naturally. You didn't mention it when you were talking about the things that you want to do. I don't want to do this. We need a driver. We need someone that knows us,
• 1:36:07
  and can drive the task of finding the people that we need in order to put this out. I have enough trust in you and this feels a lot like a two-way door, not a one-way door. So I'm not really worried about any of it. I am excited by it. So seeing the choices excites me to be like, yeah, this sounds awesome. Let's go, let's go, let's go. If I didn't answer, I don't wanna slow it down, right? Now, just coming to general,
• 1:36:37
  Once a day, every other day, yeah, I'm definitely going to look at the chat group and say, this looks great. Or have we thought about this, this or that. But even if we pick someone and they suck, great. We get rid of them and we try someone else. We have the content, which is really the, our brains are the real like machine product.
• 1:36:55
  It's not a business, but that's all that matters. And the fact that we're hitting record and using good microphones that you found on cameras, I'm not super stressed about somebody that under delivers and we remove. The reason I'm able to think more clearly now is because I'm a complicator that's been aggressively trying to understand first principles and first principle thinking, which allows me to at least put boxes and systems and razors on it.
• 1:37:19
  The investor, the more and more I think about it, I think I am an investor. I think about Bitcoin. I think about even my business. It's like I see two business models.
• 1:37:29
  And I'm like, oh, you just put those together here and that is going to change this whole industry. And it's basically me just having knowledge of an investment, whether or not I made the investment, just learn how someone ran a business, applying it to the new industry, and then it takes off. And it makes so much more sense because I always wanted to be an operator and I was horrible. I'm not like a new product creator, like even the first business that may or may not have ever happened. We saw the market.
• 1:37:53
  When we were students, we saw the need. I just saw like they're making a lot of money and they're not that great at doing it. We can probably do this better. I mean, I think of Van Gogh, right? He said he wanted to be a pastor his whole life, his uncle, his dad, everyone. And finally, in his 30s, he goes, I've had every door closed to me in the churches. But with art, I wake up, I paint for 16 hours a day, and I have more energy at the end of the day than when I started. That's an artist. Well, I guess that I would apply that to anyone that is playing in the role.
• 1:38:22
  If I am an investor and now I am playing operator role, I'm just going to be drained. Or if I have to be doing product 10 hours, I will be like, dude, it's already done. Just ship it. It's great. It's going great. Let me just go and find great resources that are dislocated somewhere else. So I can just put it in the right belt and it just goes and ships.
• 1:38:45
  Anyhow, so all this to say, just by elimination, you are not an artist, you are not an operator, you are an investor. And as a complicated investor, you need a great operator that puts you on track to do things. But I think that you are very artistic also. That is, you have some weird combination there.
• 1:39:09
  I think you're giving me more credit. It's I'm curious, which means I go seek out these weird facets of the world from people, from businesses, from everything. And this is what I'm realizing because of Anastasia in this process. It's not actually that I'm a creative artist. It's all I'm doing is bringing them together. But most people don't want to go into the room where it's all old people and them or all kids and them. I do. I go to those rooms. I go to these chat rooms, these books, these learning, and I just bring it back.
• 1:39:37
  And so to you or most, it looks creative where I look at it as no, no, no. I just, I'm just combining two things or like, I see something that's kind of working. And then if you add in the element of a new industry, like, let's think about the podcast. We love talking to each other, which I think is going to be great. I'm already kind of imagining that, you know, we already think of the world basically the same way. We're always like, now we unlock new things occasionally, but
• 1:40:01
  Right now, that's a 10%, 20% jump. Over time, that'll be a 1% to 2% jump. And I was thinking, what's really unique about us? And I thought of that woman who I've listened to her therapy sessions with the couples. I was like, man, if you and I can be the therapy for the most successful people in the world, where they actually put down their guard and maybe they're doing anonymously, like that. Now, I found it somewhere else because I kind of enjoy this kind of weird niche of therapy.
• 1:40:28
  therapy corner and I'm just applying it to a space that I haven't seen except her. You might see that and go, Peter's really creative. No, I don't. And it's actually humbling to realize I don't think I'm creative. I think I'm extremely curious, which results in offerings that appear creative. I see things that you do and I'm like, why? Why do you even do that? Because an investor, the way that I see it is,
• 1:40:58
  putting, reallocating resources, seeing where, oh, dude, if I just move this piece here and I put it to the right, this is incredible. And the way that I see you is, well, yes, Pablo, that's great. But you know what? Let me just add seven more pieces here. I'm going to change the shape of all the pieces and I'm going to go in seven rabbit holes and then nothing gets done, right?
• 1:41:20
  I am, of course, making fun and exaggerating here. One thing I noticed, though, from the investor versus simplifier, one, I'm thinking of Ray Dalio. I've read his books. He's a big-time Bridgewater investor. Definitely a complicator.
• 1:41:33
  Like he gets very often random things. The final thought on that is they're trying to tie together two or three examples to then finally show the end result. Where most simplifiers, at least what I'm observing, is they want one example and A to B. That's it. But there's, and right or wrong, it depends on the situation, right? Some topics are more complicated than others. Our friend who sold his business, he was like, okay, real estate, real estate.
• 1:41:57
  they show these returns. You buy the building, you sell it for more later. Great. Put all my money in there. Oh, no, they make up these IRRs. They're not real. There's all this complexity around where are you in the cycle of real estate, of the industry, of rates. It's a very complicated thing where you have to zoom out and understand what's going on. Me making fun of the simplifier,
• 1:42:26
  The beautiful thing about life, I truly believe, it's you need both to be successful, right? Because being too simplistic is like, no, no, no, that you're forgetting about the huge asteroid that's coming to blow up Earth and you're Titanic. You're moving around the chairs to get the order on the chair.
• 1:42:43
  Well, the Titanic sinking. Both sides end up in a horrible place. Combining the thoughts or being able to, whether it's first principles, whether it's partnerships, whether it's key employees. In my business, I had our chief of staff was an amazing woman and my partner was an amazing operator. They were the ones that kept the trains on time. They were the ones that kept driving. I was the one that came to blow it up with a whole new way of operating from a book I read or a system I had. And eight out of ten times they make, Peter, don't do this. No. No.
• 1:43:12
  And one or two out of 10 times, they'd be like, this changed the whole course of the company. The interesting part that Anastasia shared, and let's just wrap this up, is she could not find examples of your archetype and my archetype creating something successful together. I wonder about Charlie and Warren. Investor simplifiers.
• 1:43:32
  Both. Warren is the most simplifier human in history. Sorry, Charlie. But Warren, it's still a simplifier. Oh, cash flow, blah, blah, doesn't match. Okay, not interested. No, but listen, look at Microsoft. Like, no, no, I don't care. Oh, but look at Google. No, no, I don't understand it. Bye. No, no, no, not too complicated. Nah, nah, nah. What is the balance sheet? No, I cannot forecast. What is the current? No, I don't see it. Nope. Makes no money. Nope. Nope.
• 1:43:59
  I only buy A, B, C. That's all I do. That simplifier approach. Complicator approach is Ray Dalio. I want to have this 27,000 uncorrelated bets because this is how it decays. And here's the history of the world. And that's a complicated investor. So just imagine you put Charlie with Ray Dalio.
• 1:44:22
  They will be like, dude, this is, what are you doing? And I am not saying that, I think that it all comes down to co-founders. That doesn't mean that one cannot work with the other one in one shape or another shape because it's needed, right? But let's just say, let's go back to the Bitcoin company.
• 1:44:41
  And here I would say that is the crux of the matter is you and I, we need an operator to get anything done. To me, the complicator value is to see the similar thing over history or over a relationship. Like for you and I, it's very clear to me after our discussion in Florida, when we were in that questionable hotel room with the stains.
• 1:45:01
  Anytime you and I are in a different wavelength or there's some friction of disagreement, it's usually we just didn't realize we have separate goals. And the moment we realign and I'm like, oh, wow, no, this mountaintop you're talking about, Pablo? Yeah, that's the better one than I was trying to climb. Okay. Or you're like, oh, I didn't understand this is the mountain you're trying to climb, Peter. Okay. Done. Done.
• 1:45:22
  And I said something, you're like, you're being complicated. I was trying to give examples of historical conversations where we were not seeing the same world. And I saw it's like the light showed up, like the numbers, right? The hangover. It's like the numbers go off of, oh my gosh, each time we have this, it's because we didn't. Okay. Now the theme is just pull out, say, what's your goal, Pablo? What's your goal, Peter? Make sure we're aligned. Brother, I need to go. Love you. Okay.