Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Our Strong Personality Kids and How to Love Them | Ep. 80

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Our Strong Personality Kids and How to Love Them | Ep. 80 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:08
  A listener wrote us an ask, how do we parent a strong personality child without breaking their spirit?
• 0:16
  By constantly correcting them?
• 0:19
  That balance is a challenge.
• 0:23
  I'm your host, Cheryl Lang, and welcome to the Parenting Podcast.
• 0:28
  As you will hear today, the recording team has it.
• 0:32
  Own self-declared strong-willed child in Ellen, and she shares quite a bit out of her childhood and life.
• 0:42
  Bringing a lot of insight to this issue, that dominant personality has such incredible strength, can be tapped into and invested.
• 0:51
  But they can also make our parenting more challenging.
• 0:56
  Listen in, because the team shares some very practical and insightful suggestions that I personally found effective and helpful.
• 1:14
  Cheryl: I am really enjoying going back and getting all these questions.
• 1:17
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:18
  Cheryl: That listeners are sent in and I'm just gonna do a little infomercial here.
• 1:23
  Cheryl: All of you send us your questions.
• 1:26
  Cheryl: Yes, we've got contact information later on, but we want to know, so we talk about what you want to know.
• 1:32
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 1:32
  Cheryl: So, There's our infomercial.
• 1:35
  Cheryl: Um, alright, let's look here.
• 1:37
  Cheryl: I thought this was gonna be fun.
• 1:40
  Cheryl: How to parent a strong personality child without breaking their spirit by constantly correcting.
• 1:48
  Cheryl: Oh, wow.
• 1:49
  Cheryl: Hmm.
• 1:49
  Cheryl: I identified
• 1:50
  Christie: with strong personality, child.
• 1:51
  Christie: Have a couple of
• 1:52
  Ellen: those.
• 1:52
  Ellen: I don't think you break their spirit of their will.
• 1:55
  Ellen: They usually break.
• 1:56
  Ellen: The parents.
• 1:57
  Ellen: Right.
• 1:58
  Cheryl: Is there anybody sitting here around the recording table who self identifies as a strong personality
• 2:04
  Ellen: child?
• 2:04
  Ellen: Yes.
• 2:04
  Ellen: I'm proudly self identify as a strong-willed.
• 2:09
  Ellen: I was a very strong-willed.
• 2:11
  Ellen: Child um, and having grandparents raise me for part of the time was maybe a little bit of the issue.
• 2:19
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 2:19
  Ellen: But I was kind of like, if you tell me no, I'm gonna figure out how to make it.
• 2:23
  Ellen: Yes.
• 2:24
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 2:24
  Ellen: Wow.
• 2:25
  Ellen: Whether either through nagging.
• 2:27
  Ellen: You know, my, my stepdad used to say, oh, you should be a lawyer.
• 2:30
  Ellen: You do a really good job.
• 2:31
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 2:32
  Ellen: Pleading your case.
• 2:33
  Ellen: So, you know, I spent a lot of time just either pleading my case of trying to get my parents to change their minds about something or just figuring how it's gonna do it, regardless of whether they wanted me to or not.
• 2:44
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 2:45
  Cheryl: And because we have you here mm-hmm.
• 2:47
  Cheryl: Interviewing you as our ideal subject on this, um, Were you this way from as far back as you can remember?
• 2:57
  Cheryl: Or did you develop into having this strong personality?
• 3:01
  Ellen: I think I always was.
• 3:03
  Ellen: I think from what my, um, parents had told me when I was really little and stuff,
• 3:07
  Cheryl: Do you remember even examples of where your strong personality.
• 3:13
  Cheryl: Uh, presented itself
• 3:15
  Ellen: well, I think it came out.
• 3:17
  Ellen: You know, it was probably that way all the way through elementary school, but because of the dynamics of my family, I think that everybody appreciated that I was independent.
• 3:26
  Ellen: Mm.
• 3:26
  Ellen: Oh.
• 3:27
  Ellen: Cause that's what you know, because I was a firstborn.
• 3:29
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 3:29
  Ellen: And they kind of made me do all the stuff.
• 3:32
  Ellen: My sister was an introvert and they didn't ask her to do the same things mm-hmm.
• 3:36
  Ellen: That they asked me to do, because I can remember even at six, and seven, they would just drop me off in front of a church and I'd go to church all by myself.
• 3:45
  Ellen: Wow.
• 3:45
  Ellen: Wow.
• 3:45
  Ellen: You know, I'd go in and find the Sunday school teacher and say hi and Wow.
• 3:51
  Ellen: You know?
• 3:51
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 3:52
  Ellen: I mean, I didn't even think anything of it.
• 3:53
  Ellen: That was just what was sort of expected.
• 3:57
  Ellen: Mm.
• 3:57
  Ellen: And you know, because my mother worked for the airlines, we traveled really early.
• 4:00
  Ellen: I think my first trip was from Los Angeles to Toronto, and I was probably six.
• 4:06
  Ellen: And I By yourself?
• 4:07
  Ellen: Yeah, by myself.
• 4:08
  Ellen: You know, I mean, that's.
• 4:09
  Ellen: The, the staff took care of me to a certain degree.
• 4:12
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 4:12
  Ellen: But, you know, at my times for sure.
• 4:15
  Ellen: Right.
• 4:15
  Ellen: But I would say by the time, um, I got into, you know, sixth, seventh grade, that's where the conflict started.
• 4:22
  Ellen: Oh.
• 4:22
  Ellen: Because, you know, I wanted to do things a certain way or I wanted to go somewhere or, mm-hmm.
• 4:27
  Ellen: You know, um, so that started conflicts and I would say that my mom and I did not get along.
• 4:34
  Ellen: Till, you know, I was an adult.
• 4:36
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 4:36
  Ellen: Because it, you know, just was a conflict and you know, I was kind of contrary.
• 4:41
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 4:41
  Ellen: And everything was an argument.
• 4:43
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 4:43
  Ellen: You know, don't mess with me.
• 4:45
  Ellen: You know, you don't own me.
• 4:46
  Ellen: You're not gonna tell me what to do.
• 4:47
  Ellen: And I had that thinking from 13 on you.
• 4:51
  Ellen: Wow.
• 4:51
  Ellen: You know, I make my own plans my own life.
• 4:54
  Ellen: I will do what I wanna do.
• 4:55
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 4:55
  Ellen: So,
• 4:56
  Christie: well, I don't have stories to top out ones there, but I, I think it makes a good point that.
• 5:03
  Christie: There is some value Yes.
• 5:05
  Christie: To a strong-willed child.
• 5:07
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 5:07
  Christie: And as parents, we kind of want the strong-willed child to be strong-willed when it's convenient for us or when it helps them to push back on absolutely.
• 5:17
  Christie: Negative peer pressure or cultural standards that aren't approved or, yes.
• 5:21
  Christie: And so there's some value in it.
• 5:23
  Christie: It just has to be honed and mm-hmm.
• 5:26
  Christie: And.
• 5:27
  Christie: Directed in the right
• 5:28
  Cheryl: direction.
• 5:29
  Cheryl: Right?
• 5:29
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:30
  Cheryl: Because I'm thinking of my children, those that have the stronger personality.
• 5:34
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 5:35
  Cheryl: The same thing I wanted to do what your parents did.
• 5:38
  Cheryl: I wanted to pick and choose.
• 5:39
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 5:40
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:40
  Cheryl: When I wanted the strong personality.
• 5:42
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:42
  Cheryl: So with my, with my children, I liked it when there was assertiveness mm-hmm.
• 5:47
  Cheryl: When I wanted it.
• 5:48
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:49
  Cheryl: You know, but I empathize with the struggle that this parent has because it was the same thing right.
• 5:57
  Cheryl: I didn't have anyone that's your world class like you Ellen.
• 6:02
  Cheryl: but it was inconvenient.
• 6:05
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 6:06
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 6:07
  Cheryl: Because I couldn't say, okay, right now I need you to be independent and strong and I want you to take care of your little siblings.
• 6:14
  Cheryl: Right?
• 6:14
  Cheryl: And you go up and ask that person, and you do this and, and you stand against this peer pressure and.
• 6:20
  Cheryl: Yeah, I want all of that.
• 6:22
  Cheryl: But you're making my parenting very, um, complicated.
• 6:27
  Christie: Well, we like it when it makes us look good.
• 6:29
  Christie: Oh, yeah.
• 6:30
  Christie: When, when everyone's like, oh yeah, she's such a strong leader.
• 6:33
  Christie: She's so mature for her age.
• 6:35
  Christie: Yes.
• 6:36
  Christie: But when it's turned against us, then it is very inconvenient.
• 6:40
  Christie: I, I heard someone say value, passion, wherever you find it.
• 6:44
  Christie: It was a parenting guru saying it.
• 6:46
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:46
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:47
  Christie: And I thought, oh, I, I can see some passion.
• 6:49
  Christie: Alright.
• 6:49
  Christie: I don't know if I'm valuing it, but yeah, I mean it can evolve and mature into a, a really good trait in people.
• 6:57
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 6:58
  Christie: But it can also be very immature and not
• 7:00
  Ellen: helpful.
• 7:00
  Ellen: And I think for me, as a strong-willed kid, once I got outta elementary school, all of my teachers loved me.
• 7:08
  Ellen: And I can remember my parents would come in for parent teacher, you know, meetings and they would just gush about how wonderful I was.
• 7:15
  Ellen: And I can remember my parents looking at the teacher like this, that girl, right.
• 7:19
  Ellen: You know, because I was First to raise my hand.
• 7:22
  Ellen: I wasn't afraid to do things, and so that was an asset that they rewarded
• 7:27
  Christie: me for.
• 7:28
  Christie: Right.
• 7:28
  Christie: Again, because it was a strength to them?
• 7:30
  Christie: Yes.
• 7:30
  Christie: And a benefit to them in the classroom.
• 7:31
  Christie: Yes.
• 7:32
  Christie: Had it been contrary to their order and structure, it would not have been.
• 7:35
  Christie: I
• 7:36
  Ellen: have in class, I mean, I was suspended a few times from school, but I got to choose how I wanted to be suspended because I was a good talker.
• 7:45
  Ellen: And it was only because it wasn't anything really horrible, just I was skipping school.
• 7:48
  Ellen: Right.
• 7:49
  Ellen: And so my counselor said to me, Why aren't you coming to school?
• 7:52
  Ellen: Well, bored out of my mind.
• 7:54
  Ellen: Ah-huh.
• 7:54
  Ellen: Wow.
• 7:54
  Ellen: And so, oh, okay, well I have to suspend you for three days.
• 7:57
  Ellen: And then here's a stack of books to read.
• 8:00
  Ellen: And that particular counselor, see, he guided my energy.
• 8:04
  Ellen: He knew what I needed intellectually, that I wasn't getting in class.
• 8:07
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 8:08
  Christie: Well, and that goes back to the question, the que the question said something about not without.
• 8:13
  Christie: Breaking their spirit, I think.
• 8:14
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:15
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:15
  Christie: And this teacher knew how to guide that, um, strong will without shutting you down and just making you conform.
• 8:21
  Christie: Right.
• 8:22
  Christie: But instead giving you an outlet Yes.
• 8:24
  Christie: In the direction to take that will with.
• 8:26
  Cheryl: So as we're analyzing that right today as our Guinea pig, but.
• 8:31
  Cheryl: Also you didn't feel you needed to push back.
• 8:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:35
  Cheryl: No, I was gonna say assert independence.
• 8:37
  Cheryl: That's correct.
• 8:37
  Cheryl: And we all know anyone for example who has parented Oh, your children, they're just a doll when they're here at Mother's Day out.
• 8:45
  Cheryl: Right.
• 8:46
  Cheryl: Or we love having them in class.
• 8:47
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 8:48
  Cheryl: But oh my goodness, when mom comes to pick them up or whatever it is.
• 8:52
  Cheryl: There is a pushback right.
• 8:53
  Cheryl: That children give for parents.
• 8:55
  Cheryl: And
• 8:55
  Ellen: you're a hard marriage partner and you can be a hard parent.
• 8:59
  Ellen: Oh yeah.
• 8:59
  Ellen: Because, you know, as a marriage partner it's like, oh, you wanna fight?
• 9:03
  Ellen: Right.
• 9:03
  Ellen: Okay, I'm ready.
• 9:04
  Ellen: Wow.
• 9:05
  Ellen: You know, my, my even tempered husband's looking at me like, I never saw this person before.
• 9:10
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 9:11
  Ellen: And same for as a parent, you know, it's like you're, you have to do what I say and the, you know, you don't get any choices.
• 9:16
  Ellen: I'm the parent.
• 9:17
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 9:17
  Ellen: Go do that.
• 9:19
  Christie: Well, and I think there, you know, when I hear strong-willed child, I, I kind of think a different definition is, or more accurate definition might be.
• 9:27
  Christie: One, I can't control, you know, whichever the child is that I can't control, or it won't concede to my wishes.
• 9:33
  Christie: And I didn't think I was strong-willed until I got married.
• 9:38
  Cheryl: Well, and I wanna cast a bigger umbrella over this, not just strong-willed.
• 9:44
  Cheryl: But it said strong personality.
• 9:46
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:47
  Cheryl: So some of my kids in the family weren't all, all that strong Right.
• 9:51
  Cheryl: Willed mm-hmm.
• 9:52
  Cheryl: As much as, uh, some of'em were yeah.
• 9:55
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:55
  Cheryl: Very strong, dominant personality in talking.
• 9:59
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:59
  Cheryl: And would talk over others and were at the table and everybody, and they just dominate that.
• 10:04
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:04
  Cheryl: And they dominate, dominate, Right.
• 10:06
  Cheryl: All over that strong personality and it.
• 10:09
  Cheryl: Was hard what this parent is saying, how do we do it?
• 10:13
  Cheryl: About over-correcting.
• 10:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:15
  Cheryl: And that's the thing.
• 10:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:17
  Ellen: I was gonna say, the words I heard most of my life was, Ellen, be quiet.
• 10:21
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 10:21
  Ellen: You know, and I spent a good part of my school years.
• 10:25
  Ellen: In the club closet, you know, because that's all they could do was isolate me and then my friends would throw me notes into the case.
• 10:32
  Ellen: That's hilarious.
• 10:33
  Ellen: And I got to look through everybody's lunches.
• 10:35
  Ellen: So it was, you know, I never thought of it as a punishment.
• 10:38
  Ellen: My kids were mortified when they like, mom.
• 10:40
  Ellen: Wasn't that so embarrassing?
• 10:41
  Ellen: I thought it was kinda
• 10:42
  Christie: an adventure.
• 10:43
  Christie: I feel like Ramona, the Pest might have been inspired by
• 10:46
  Cheryl: Ellen ler.
• 10:50
  Cheryl: but now as an adult, look at the strengths that we have in Ellen.
• 10:53
  Cheryl: Exactly right.
• 10:54
  Cheryl: I'm thrilled that she's part of our podcasting team.
• 10:57
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:57
  Cheryl: Because of all the strength and the germination.
• 11:00
  Cheryl: And I know Ellen will do the righteous, right.
• 11:05
  Cheryl: Good thing.
• 11:06
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 11:06
  Cheryl: And our Oh, thank you.
• 11:08
  Cheryl: Because there is that.
• 11:09
  Cheryl: But back to this dominant thing, and it is.
• 11:13
  Cheryl: Correcting and you mm-hmm.
• 11:14
  Cheryl: You don't want to go.
• 11:15
  Cheryl: Would you be quiet?
• 11:16
  Cheryl: Would you be quiet?
• 11:16
  Cheryl: Would you be quiet?
• 11:17
  Cheryl: But at the
• 11:17
  Christie: same time, you kind of do.
• 11:19
  Christie: As a parent, it's a lot.
• 11:20
  Christie: It's really hard, easier, hard because you know, there's a lot of fear of what if I don't keep this child contained?
• 11:26
  Christie: What will happen if I don't control them or if I don't keep them?
• 11:29
  Christie: Or these are the values for our family, and if they don't follow, then what?
• 11:34
  Christie: What the other kids?
• 11:35
  Christie: Think or Right.
• 11:36
  Christie: You know, to be able to hold them within the parameters feels restricting to them.
• 11:41
  Christie: But to let them go a little out of the parameters feels very vulnerable.
• 11:45
  Christie: As the parents,
• 11:46
  Ellen: my introverted sister enjoyed watching me.
• 11:50
  Ellen: She was soon became adults.
• 11:51
  Ellen: She goes, yeah, it was always so fascinating to see how far you're gonna push and how much trouble are you gonna get to?
• 11:56
  Ellen: She goes, well, I was shining my halo.
• 12:01
  Christie: She got the best of both worlds.
• 12:03
  Cheryl: Because particularly when you have the strong personality mm-hmm.
• 12:06
  Cheryl: Dominant and mm-hmm.
• 12:07
  Cheryl: The more compliant, less dominant.
• 12:11
  Cheryl: Have a tendency to be sitting over there shining their klos.
• 12:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:15
  Cheryl: Not getting corrected and building this self-righteous, judgmental Right, right.
• 12:20
  Cheryl: Critical heart where I have seen stronger willed, stronger personalities, they know they're a stronger personality.
• 12:28
  Cheryl: They're not thinking, oh, I'm so self-righteous and good compared to that other person.
• 12:32
  Cheryl: Right.
• 12:32
  Cheryl: They're realistic about it.
• 12:33
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:34
  Cheryl: And, and you were saying about you don't wanna tell'em, be quiet, be quiet, all the time.
• 12:39
  Cheryl: What do you do?
• 12:40
  Cheryl: we even said training oh, you know, conversation is like a ball.
• 12:45
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:45
  Cheryl: So let's pass the ball back and forth.
• 12:47
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:48
  Cheryl: So you talk a little bit, I'll talk a little bit.
• 12:50
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:50
  Cheryl: And even that they hold the ball and talk all the time.
• 12:52
  Cheryl: Right, right.
• 12:53
  Cheryl: Or we practice it.
• 12:55
  Cheryl: But then they get into the circumstances.
• 12:58
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:58
  Cheryl: And they're all excited.
• 12:59
  Cheryl: Excited.
• 13:00
  Cheryl: And that big personality.
• 13:02
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:02
  Cheryl: Takes Which takes over.
• 13:04
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 13:05
  Cheryl: And it is a struggle.
• 13:07
  Cheryl: And part of it also with that, sometimes we've referred to the stronger personalities, sort of being a tornado child.
• 13:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:16
  Cheryl: That it's kind of like here in Oklahoma we can have beautiful blue skies and.
• 13:22
  Cheryl: A lovely day and mm-hmm.
• 13:25
  Cheryl: South five miles south there's a tornado Yeah.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: Heading right towards us.
• 13:30
  Cheryl: And so I was guilty sometimes of wanting to tamp them down before mm-hmm.
• 13:37
  Cheryl: The explosion or before the.
• 13:39
  Cheryl: Over dramatic, whatever it is.
• 13:42
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:42
  Cheryl: Struggling with that and, and I did worry about what is it doing inside of them.
• 13:47
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:48
  Cheryl: Because I have to pull them aside.
• 13:49
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:49
  Cheryl: I have to correct.
• 13:50
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:51
  Cheryl: Because you did this, it just took more.
• 13:54
  Cheryl: Active overt parenting.
• 13:55
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:56
  Cheryl: And I did worry about their spirits and their
• 13:59
  Christie: hearts.
• 13:59
  Christie: Well, and you start worrying, are they feeling like a problem, child?
• 14:03
  Christie: Yes.
• 14:03
  Christie: Mentality.
• 14:04
  Christie: And because the truth is, all of us have traits in our personalities that we're going, that they have to live with.
• 14:09
  Christie: All of their days, and so there's always going to be a struggle.
• 14:13
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:14
  Christie: Especially with these strong personalities that they have to learn to manage.
• 14:18
  Christie: And so our job while they're with us is to start loosening some those boundaries so that they can start to learn how to navigate and manage those colleges.
• 14:27
  Christie: Keep
• 14:27
  Ellen: them busy.
• 14:28
  Ellen: That is, that's a great talk about that because you know, usually strong-willed kids have a lot of energy.
• 14:34
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 14:34
  Ellen: From the time they're little, they're always, you know, got into the cookies, got into that, you know, gave the dog something they shouldn't have.
• 14:40
  Ellen: You know, they're always getting into mischief.
• 14:42
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 14:42
  Ellen: And people misinterpret that as being bad or disobedient, whereas they're just busy.
• 14:48
  Ellen: Right.
• 14:48
  Ellen: And so, as long as I had lots of things to do, and I still do that as an adult, I have.
• 14:54
  Ellen: You know, tons of things.
• 14:55
  Ellen: That's true.
• 14:56
  Ellen: I keep myself busy with, cuz I'm not a good person if I'm not working towards something.
• 15:00
  Ellen: Even if it's just thinking about something I have to have stuff I'm doing.
• 15:04
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:05
  Ellen: Because that's what happens.
• 15:06
  Ellen: You know, you just.
• 15:07
  Ellen: Fine mischief, right?
• 15:09
  Ellen: Because I was always thinking of things.
• 15:10
  Ellen: I was like, what would happen?
• 15:12
  Ellen: If I can remember, we had a laundry shoot in this older house we lived in.
• 15:16
  Ellen: Oh God.
• 15:17
  Ellen: And I always, that was the most fascinating thing from the top story.
• 15:20
  Ellen: It went down two stories to laundry room and I'd always opened the cupboard and looked down in there and it was dark.
• 15:26
  Ellen: So one time I just decided what would happen if I took an egg, a raw egg.
• 15:32
  Ellen: And so I just took it and plop it.
• 15:35
  Ellen: Plunge two stories, and you just hear a crack.
• 15:38
  Ellen: And I hear my grandfather who's downstairs by it, he goes, goodness.
• 15:42
  Ellen: Ellen, I'm come down here and clean that up.
• 15:46
  Ellen: And
• 15:46
  Christie: so Well, and I heard you say the words fascinating, curious what would happen.
• 15:50
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:51
  Christie: And I think if we get into the heads of these kids that that can push back on us and look at it through that kind of lens Yes.
• 15:58
  Christie: Of realizing there's some really positive things there.
• 16:01
  Christie: Right.
• 16:01
  Christie: And, and appreciating them rather than feeling like they're just a nuisance to our, our agenda.
• 16:07
  Ellen: You know, my parents would get angry.
• 16:09
  Ellen: Because I would ask too many questions.
• 16:10
  Ellen: Stop talking.
• 16:11
  Ellen: Don't ask too many questions because I could remember being fascinated.
• 16:14
  Ellen: They told me, don't get the comet in your mouth, you know, to clean your sink with when I was probably six or seven.
• 16:20
  Ellen: So I, oh gosh.
• 16:21
  Ellen: Desperately wanted, no, I desperate.
• 16:23
  Ellen: No, I didn't do anything.
• 16:24
  Ellen: But I would.
• 16:25
  Ellen: I would follow them around, well, what happens if you eat Comet?
• 16:28
  Ellen: Wow.
• 16:28
  Ellen: Well, nobody would take the time to tell me.
• 16:30
  Ellen: And I would go around asking people what happens if you eat?
• 16:33
  Ellen: You know, I just wanted to know what happened.
• 16:36
  Ellen: But
• 16:36
  Cheryl: see, we can be objective looking at Ellen.
• 16:39
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:39
  Cheryl: Rather than subjective when you're having to deal with it yourself.
• 16:42
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:42
  Cheryl: But you know, looking at this again, slowing down.
• 16:47
  Cheryl: Taking the time.
• 16:48
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:49
  Cheryl: And then maybe saying, Ellen, I can't answer these questions now, but if you wait until I'm finished with this, I'll sit down and you tell me every question, I'll answer it.
• 16:58
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:59
  Cheryl: Active parenting like that mm-hmm.
• 17:00
  Cheryl: Is so good.
• 17:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:02
  Cheryl: Another thing that I thought, uh, Uh, that was helpful is, um, somebody, and they wrote a book and they talked about it.
• 17:11
  Cheryl: If we'd had podcasts, she would've done podcasts back in the day, but she identified with being the same kind of person you are, you know, don't make stupid rules.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: Don't tell me to be compliant when there's something dumb.
• 17:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 17:22
  Cheryl: Or it's not
• 17:22
  Ellen: necessary.
• 17:23
  Ellen: Don't tell me to be quiet when you know it's a good thing to talk
• 17:27
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:27
  Cheryl: she said, and one of the, I thought brilliant that cuz I actually used it in my house.
• 17:32
  Cheryl: Don't give ultimatums.
• 17:34
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 17:35
  Cheryl: You know, and so like, if you have a compliant children, the problem with compliant children is they are easier.
• 17:42
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 17:42
  Cheryl: But you can be a lot sloppy in your parenting and kind of get away with it even though you're not doing good parenting.
• 17:49
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:49
  Cheryl: And you
• 17:49
  Ellen: can make'em really fearful because if you give a compliant child too many ultimatums, they're sitting there going, well, what's gonna happen if I do?
• 17:57
  Ellen: Oh, am I gonna get, and everything boils down to am I gonna get in trouble?
• 18:00
  Ellen: Mm, mm-hmm.
• 18:01
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 18:01
  Ellen: And that kind of becomes their mantra, oh, I can't do that.
• 18:04
  Ellen: I'm gonna get in trouble.
• 18:05
  Ellen: And you create fear
• 18:06
  Cheryl: Oh, that's so good Well, I'm so glad I heard it.
• 18:10
  Cheryl: This, uh, person, she wrote a book.
• 18:13
  Cheryl: Might have heard a cassette tape of her talking But when she said this, I realized it and I started using it you can't make me right, but give me options.
• 18:24
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:25
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 18:25
  Ellen: Exactly.
• 18:26
  Ellen: That's really good.
• 18:27
  Cheryl: And see as a compliant.
• 18:28
  Cheryl: I never would've seen it.
• 18:31
  Cheryl: and I talked with one of my stronger personality ones and she said, it's so true because you have to understand all I have to do is outlast you.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: You know, like the old joke, two men, uh, bears chasing them and one goes, oh.
• 18:45
  Cheryl: Or how are you gonna outrun the bear?
• 18:46
  Cheryl: And he goes, I don't have to, I just have to outrun you.
• 18:48
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:49
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 18:49
  Cheryl: So the same thing.
• 18:51
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:51
  Cheryl: With the ultimatums.
• 18:53
  Cheryl: All I have to do is outlast you.
• 18:54
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:55
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:55
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:55
  Cheryl: You know?
• 18:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:56
  Cheryl: All I have to do is you tell me you can't.
• 19:01
  Cheryl: Leave the table and TV and all that broccoli.
• 19:04
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:04
  Cheryl: And they'll
• 19:04
  Christie: sit there for two days, right?
• 19:05
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:06
  Christie: Well, yeah.
• 19:07
  Christie: I think that the strong-willed child just wants to win.
• 19:11
  Christie: I mean, yeah.
• 19:11
  Christie: No matter what the scenario, it could be that maybe they really do like broccoli, but now that you've told them mm-hmm.
• 19:17
  Christie: To eat it, they won't
• 19:19
  Cheryl: but I think it might be something deeper.
• 19:21
  Cheryl: Hmm.
• 19:22
  Cheryl: That actually they hate the legalism of it.
• 19:24
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:25
  Cheryl: Now in the parenting years, actively younger, I would've agreed with what you said, but I think it's a little deeper, is they're going, this is a legalistic requirement.
• 19:35
  Cheryl: That Right.
• 19:36
  Cheryl: Doesn't make sense.
• 19:37
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 19:38
  Cheryl: Let's go head to head on this.
• 19:40
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:41
  Cheryl: And, and so actually thinking we have the expert here.
• 19:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:44
  Cheryl: That it is deeper you might fight against a rule that makes a lot of sense.
• 19:47
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:48
  Cheryl: But it's the.
• 19:49
  Cheryl: legalism, right, that you're fighting and many rules
• 19:52
  Ellen: didn't make any sense.
• 19:53
  Ellen: You know, sometimes my parents just threw out a rule that was fine when you're five, but when you're 15 it just makes you mad.
• 19:59
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 20:00
  Ellen: And I can always remember most of my, from junior high school through high school, most of my teachers really liked me cuz I was a kid that asked, why do we do it that way?
• 20:09
  Ellen: Do do I have to do it this way?
• 20:11
  Ellen: And they appreciate that cuz they saw that as curiosity.
• 20:14
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 20:14
  Ellen: And wanting to understand things.
• 20:16
  Ellen: But as a parent, you don't always feel that way because a lot of conflicts I know with my parents would've been lessened if they would just give me a reason rather than I told you so I'm the parent.
• 20:27
  Ellen: Absolutely.
• 20:28
  I've
• 20:28
  Christie: found immediately with my strong, strong-willed ones Yeah.
• 20:30
  Christie: If I can appeal to their senses mm-hmm.
• 20:32
  Christie: And their preferences and Yes.
• 20:33
  Christie: And explain logically, okay, well this is the consequence that might come with that.
• 20:38
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:38
  Christie: Sometimes they'll.
• 20:39
  Christie: They'll buy into it.
• 20:40
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:40
  Christie: Well, strong-willed
• 20:41
  Ellen: people wanna feel like they have a choice and they have a say.
• 20:45
  Ellen: That's a really strong drive in us.
• 20:47
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 20:47
  Ellen: Yes.
• 20:47
  Ellen: Even if it's the stupidest thing we wanna be, you know, do I have a choice?
• 20:51
  Ellen: I don't have to do
• 20:52
  Cheryl: that.
• 20:53
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:53
  Cheryl: You know, and then, In order to do good parenting, let's say you're seven years old and we're in very active training years, and give you an option.
• 21:04
  Cheryl: No, I don't want to do either of this.
• 21:06
  Cheryl: Well, I'm not gonna give you 50 more options.
• 21:08
  Cheryl: Right, that's true.
• 21:09
  Cheryl: You have to choose.
• 21:09
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 21:10
  Cheryl: You know, and you can carry your shoes or you can put them on here.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:14
  Cheryl: But we're going.
• 21:15
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:15
  Cheryl: You know, so you have to do the good parenting, but options and even
• 21:19
  Ellen: Even if they mention a third option, if it is not a big hassle, just let'em have it.
• 21:23
  Ellen: Well, yeah, I mean that's the same thing.
• 21:24
  Ellen: Cause
• 21:24
  Christie: they don't come up with another option.
• 21:26
  Christie: And that's eventually where we have to land with these kids, is we have to eventually give them space to roam.
• 21:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:32
  Christie: And the fear of that is the consequences.
• 21:35
  Christie: Yes.
• 21:35
  Christie: As the parent was looking at, you know, we have wisdom and insight, age maturity Yes.
• 21:40
  Christie: To see where the road is heading.
• 21:42
  Christie: But sometimes it's the, the best.
• 21:44
  Christie: More often than not, it's the best teacher for some of these personalities.
• 21:47
  Cheryl: Exactly And I, I loved what I saw and what your teachers did, because you did make the classroom harder.
• 21:56
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:57
  Cheryl: You, they had to teacher more.
• 21:59
  Cheryl: They had to correct you.
• 22:00
  Cheryl: They had to, I usually had
• 22:01
  Ellen: a private desk at the back,
• 22:03
  Cheryl: but all of that, they had to make exceptions.
• 22:05
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 22:07
  Cheryl: But they looked at you.
• 22:09
  Cheryl: With eyes to see who you were and the strengths that you were bringing.
• 22:14
  Cheryl: And if I can take my hands off my selfish parenting and look at my children to see this as.
• 22:22
  Cheryl: A wonderful opportunity that needs to be directed.
• 22:25
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:26
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:27
  Cheryl: And give you options and keep you busy.
• 22:29
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Cheryl: And then I had to work it, just not saying no quite so much.
• 22:34
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:34
  Cheryl: Just really going, okay.
• 22:36
  Cheryl: I do need to say no.
• 22:38
  Cheryl: But I mean, if I said no as many times as they needed it, it's too much.
• 22:42
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:42
  Cheryl: To back off on that.
• 22:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:44
  Cheryl: And to love them more.
• 22:46
  Cheryl: And like you're saying, come alongside you felt accepted.
• 22:51
  Cheryl: Right.
• 22:51
  Cheryl: And loved and cared for right by them.
• 22:55
  Cheryl: But
• 22:56
  Ellen: not necessarily at home.
• 22:57
  Ellen: I know because there were so many rules at home and everybody wanted peace at any price, so it made
• 23:03
  Christie: it, this is where pick your battles.
• 23:05
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:05
  Christie: Is really shines that.
• 23:06
  Christie: And also,
• 23:07
  Ellen: you know, usually strong-willed kids tend to be not always pretty active.
• 23:12
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Ellen: And so, you know mm-hmm.
• 23:14
  Ellen: They just maybe need to get some physical energy out, right?
• 23:17
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 23:17
  Ellen: And once they kind of get that dissipated, then maybe we can communicate a little bit better.
• 23:22
  Christie: And then on our side, I think.
• 23:24
  Christie: There has to be some humility, you know, just not wanting to push back and win just for the sake of winning.
• 23:30
  Christie: That was my, my struggle with my strong-willed ones was, I don't know, maybe something about having only girls and being the, you know, the fight for the alpha female position in the house is, you know, sometimes I just had to swallow my pride and Yes.
• 23:44
  Cheryl: But also I can imagine if your parents came to you and said, Ellen, I'm really sorry.
• 23:50
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 23:51
  Cheryl: That was, we were too harsh on.
• 23:54
  Cheryl: Can you imagine the healing That would be what my mother did do
• 23:57
  Ellen: in her older age.
• 23:59
  Ellen: Oh, and we, yes, she left this earth with us having a really healed good relationship because she finally in her sixties, Said to me, I was really too harsh on you.
• 24:10
  Ellen: I'm sorry.
• 24:10
  Ellen: Wow.
• 24:11
  Cheryl: You know, it's never, never, never too late to go back and see.
• 24:15
  Cheryl: I'm, I'm sorry.
• 24:15
  Cheryl: It isn't, I was too harsh.
• 24:17
  Cheryl: I did that poorly
• 24:18
  Ellen: and even though Cheryl, I had forgiven her and I was okay, that that's how she was when she did that, I didn't realize how much healing that brought.
• 24:28
  Ellen: Wow.
• 24:28
  Ellen: Because I was okay if she never said she was sorry, but when she said I was too harsh on you and that af.
• 24:34
  Ellen: Firmed all the things I felt in childhood.
• 24:37
  Ellen: It just was like I was like a new person.
• 24:39
  Ellen: The validation.
• 24:39
  Ellen: Wow.
• 24:39
  Ellen: It was like, wow, that just took away.
• 24:42
  Ellen: Things I didn't even know were deep within me.
• 24:45
  Ellen: That bothered me.
• 24:46
  Ellen: Wow.
• 24:46
  Ellen: And the
• 24:47
  Cheryl: power of grace and forgiveness?
• 24:48
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 24:49
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:49
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 24:50
  Cheryl: Something though that's, uh, in this, that I didn't recognize.
• 24:55
  Cheryl: I didn't know what passive aggressive was.
• 24:57
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:57
  Cheryl: And so I will say some of my stronger personalities were actually passive aggressive personalities.
• 25:04
  Cheryl: So speaking because you were not passive aggressive?
• 25:06
  Cheryl: No.
• 25:06
  Cheryl: Uh, you were just the aggressive, just aggressive, non aggressive, aggressive people.
• 25:09
  Cheryl: Aggressive.
• 25:10
  Cheryl: Aggressive.
• 25:11
  Cheryl: But speaking of, did y'all deal with passive aggressive at all?
• 25:14
  Cheryl: I just didn't recognize that.
• 25:15
  Cheryl: Oh, I thought they were the
• 25:16
  Ellen: hardest kids.
• 25:17
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 25:17
  Ellen: I'm
• 25:17
  Christie: Well, I, I think I identify with that personally.
• 25:19
  Christie: I, I was probably more passive aggressive than, uh, than aggressive.
• 25:24
  Christie: And I have, I have one specifically, maybe two that can tend to be passive aggressive and it is a little disguised because they sure look compliant, but their little hearts are just as dark and devious
• 25:38
  Ellen: and in.
• 25:38
  Ellen: Sometimes you don't know where you stand with a passive aggressive chuck.
• 25:42
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 25:42
  Ellen: Cause they've told you, okay, yeah, yeah, mom, I'll do it, or whatever.
• 25:45
  Ellen: Because at least with your.
• 25:46
  Ellen: Strong will child, they're just gonna argue with you and you kind of know where you stand.
• 25:50
  Ellen: But with your passive aggressive, whether it's an adult or a kid, you're kinda like, oh, well they said they were gonna do this, but they kind of did it their way and how they wanted to
• 25:58
  Cheryl: anyways, I'm so glad we've talked to be about before about the benefit of having people in our lives that are looking in can speak into it.
• 26:08
  Cheryl: And I'm so glad cuz I didn't recognize it cuz it was.
• 26:11
  Cheryl: A strong will.
• 26:13
  Cheryl: It was just presented passive aggressively.
• 26:15
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:15
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:15
  Cheryl: So it was presented very pragmatically.
• 26:18
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:18
  Cheryl: You know, would you please go pick up your toys?
• 26:20
  Cheryl: Ah, mom, I will.
• 26:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:22
  Cheryl: Nothing.
• 26:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:23
  Cheryl: There was never Yeah.
• 26:24
  Cheryl: A thought to ever do it.
• 26:26
  Cheryl: So there was so much, uh, disrespect for me, whatever we asked them to do.
• 26:32
  Cheryl: There was a lot of disobedience.
• 26:34
  Cheryl: But it looked a lot nicer, and I just didn't recognize it.
• 26:37
  Cheryl: And a dear friend of mine, we were over there and she came over and she goes, do you realize she's directly disobeying you?
• 26:45
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:45
  Cheryl: And I said, what?
• 26:46
  Cheryl: No, she's just taking her little time.
• 26:48
  Cheryl: She goes, uh, and then we had a good conversation about it.
• 26:52
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:52
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Cheryl: And we didn't have the word passive aggressive at that time, but that's what it was.
• 26:56
  Cheryl: Right?
• 26:56
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:56
  Cheryl: So this strong personality can take.
• 27:00
  Cheryl: Uh, different approaches.
• 27:01
  Cheryl: It doesn't have to always be an element, right?
• 27:03
  Christie: Which again, I go back to the idea, the definition of.
• 27:07
  Christie: This is one I can't control.
• 27:09
  Christie: There we go.
• 27:09
  Christie: Because you know, I have seen a child pick up all but one toy or I'll put on my shoes, but they're gonna be these shoes intentionally because you told me to put on my boots.
• 27:19
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 27:20
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 27:20
  Christie: And so I think we still, the temptation there would be.
• 27:24
  Christie: Control.
• 27:26
  Christie: But what we really have to approach or deal with is their hearts.
• 27:29
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:30
  Christie: The heart of disrespect or their heart of disobedience, rather than just, no, you will pick up all the toys.
• 27:36
  Christie: That's, that's not the solution.
• 27:37
  Christie: We've gotta deal with the, the
• 27:38
  Ellen: heart issue, but it's harder with a passive aggressive child.
• 27:41
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 27:42
  Ellen: Because on the surface, it looks like they're trying to do the right thing.
• 27:45
  Ellen: And you're not having a conflict.
• 27:47
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 27:47
  Ellen: Until you confront them and then, well I was gonna do it.
• 27:52
  Ellen: You just didn't gimme enough time.
• 27:54
  Ellen: Have a really good list of uhhuh and then you're kind of doubting yourself.
• 27:57
  Ellen: Um, was I wrong?
• 27:59
  Ellen: Forgetting in front of me.
• 28:00
  Ellen: I feel like they just disobeyed me and didn't wanna do it.
• 28:03
  Christie: Always, always doubting
• 28:04
  Cheryl: myself.
• 28:05
  Cheryl: You're not coming, coming back.
• 28:06
  Cheryl: Coming back to what you said Christie, cuz we really care.
• 28:11
  Cheryl: We slow down because we really do care about their hearts.
• 28:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:15
  Cheryl: And one of the things that I made a mistake early on being a compliant is I thought these stronger personalities were going to become compliant.
• 28:26
  Cheryl: Oh, right.
• 28:27
  Cheryl: That's, that's good.
• 28:28
  Cheryl: Instead of loving them for who they are.
• 28:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:30
  Cheryl: And we've already talked about the strengths.
• 28:32
  Cheryl: I mean, pointing to Ellen, but the strengths and that they will stand against peer pressure.
• 28:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:38
  Cheryl: And stand for.
• 28:39
  Cheryl: Right, and good and all of that strength, instead of thinking, if I just work on this, they'll become a compliant person, right?
• 28:47
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:47
  Cheryl: Then we lose all the beauty,
• 28:49
  Christie: especially if you have a compliant parent.
• 28:52
  Christie: I think compliant parents, we tend to think that's no problem.
• 28:54
  Christie: That about that.
• 28:55
  Christie: That's the goal.
• 28:56
  Christie: Kind of like what we talked about with extroverts and introverts, right?
• 28:59
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 28:59
  Christie: That we're, we're not trying to conform them to the other side.
• 29:03
  Christie: You know, we're, we're trying to celebrate
• 29:05
  Cheryl: their side
• 29:05
  Christie: Yes.
• 29:05
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 29:06
  Cheryl: As we close, is there anything else that you wanted to speak into this, um, as we wrap up?
• 29:12
  Ellen: I just think Mm-hmm.
• 29:13
  Ellen: Let them do things that they feel confident in doing.
• 29:16
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 29:16
  Ellen: You know, they have to learn their own boundaries.
• 29:19
  Christie: Well, I think.
• 29:20
  Christie: That.
• 29:20
  Christie: Yes.
• 29:21
  Christie: And also having compassion and, and verbalizing that compassion to both mm-hmm.
• 29:27
  Christie: Both extremes.
• 29:28
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:28
  Christie: And helping them to become more self-aware of the strengths and weaknesses of their specific personality type
• 29:34
  Cheryl: the goal's not homogenous.
• 29:35
  Cheryl: Right.
• 29:36
  Cheryl: Because we want unity in the family without uniformity That's good.
• 29:41
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 29:41
  Christie: and in the world.
• 29:42
  Christie: Yes.
• 29:42
  Christie: They're, they're gonna have a role to play in the world,
• 29:44
  and
• 29:44
  Cheryl: that's what we want them to be as their own individual.
• 29:47
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 29:47
  Cheryl: Um, it's just sometimes a little harder.
• 29:50
  Cheryl: Right.
• 29:50
  Ellen: Right.
• 29:51
  Cheryl: This is great.
• 29:52
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 29:53
  Cheryl: Thank you so much.
• 29:55
  Cheryl: Parents, remember, hang in there.
• 29:58
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 30:08
  Oh, did you identify with Ellen and her stories because you are that determined personality or because you have the honor of parenting?
• 30:19
  One that advice of you can't make me but give me options was one of the most effective tools that had almost immediate results with my kids.
• 30:32
  What about you?
• 30:34
  What approach have you found effective with your determined.
• 30:38
  Or compliant children.
• 30:40
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 30:43
  DM us.
• 30:44
  Go to our website or text contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 30:50
  We are really excited about our new series.
• 30:53
  We're going to start based on the bestselling book, the Whole Brain Child.
• 30:59
  We're going to kind of do a book, read together, going through the chapter highlights and talking about it.
• 31:07
  It is amazing.
• 31:09
  You aren't going to wanna miss it.
• 31:12
  Hope you can join us on the Parenting Podcast.