Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 4-6) (9/25/26)

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Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 4-6) (9/25/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where we left off with the Michael Thomas interview with
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the OIG inspectors. Question, and are you aware that Epstein
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: was assigned any cellmate when he was assigned to the SHU? Thomas,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he was. Maybe he was. I don't really recall. Question,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: so you don't recall if he had a cellmate or not? Thomas,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I know one time he had a cellmate. I don't
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: recall like if he was assigned a specific cellmate or not.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Or for his case, whatever the case, but I'm sure
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: he had a cellmate unless he was cell or wrecked alone. Question. Okay.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Do you know if Epstein was required to have a
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: cellmate when he was assigned to the shoe? Thomas? No. Question.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: No one provided any instruction. Um, was there a sign
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: posted within the shoe? saying that Epstein was required to
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: have a cellmate? Thomas, I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. Question, do you ever recall there
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: being a sign posted on his door saying he was
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: required to have a cellmate? Thomas, no. Question, do you
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: ever remember a sign being posted on the officer in
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: charge's desk area or computer saying that he was required
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to have a cellmate? Thomas, I don't go to his office.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: The officer in charge, I don't. Question, so is that
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: different than where you would sit in the shoe area? Thomas,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the officer in charge, or the lieutenant office? Question, not
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the lieutenant, the OIC. Thomas, the OIC. Well, the OIC
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: has a desk. I didn't see a sign. I don't
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: remember or recall ever seeing a sign. That was specific
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: to Epstein, no. Question, okay, so no one ever talked
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: to you about the fact that Epstein needed a cellmate? Thomas, no,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I don't recall anybody specifically talking about he needs a
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: cellmate or not. Question, okay, do you know who Nicholas
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Tartaglione is? Thomas, yes. Question, and who is he? Thomas,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: an inmate at MCC. Question, do you know if he
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: was ever assigned as Epstein's cellmate in July of 2019? Thomas, yeah,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I remember he was a cellmate. When that incident happened,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: he was actually a cellmate of his. Question, so from
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: July 23rd, 2019? Thomas, yeah, that's the 23rd. Question, so
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: he was his cellmate up until that date? Thomas, I
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: don't know if it was up until that date. I
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: just remember that particular day. Tartaglione was his cellmate that day. Question, alright,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: and are you aware of any issues that took place
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: between Epstein and Tartaglione? Answer, Thomas, no. Question, so you
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: don't know what transpired at all for that? Gets cut
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: off by Thomas for them? No. Question, okay, and you
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: didn't respond to any kind of incident? Did you respond
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: on July 23rd, Thomas, to that incident? Yes. Me and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: another officer responded at the time. And by the time
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: we got there? Because I got there after the other
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: officer got there and we just took him out. Question,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: what other officer got there? Thomas, um, who was it?
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I don't remember the two officers that were on duty
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: that day, but the other officer that was there, it
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: was redacted. Question, and he worked in the shoe? Thomas, no,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: he didn't. I don't remember if redacted was working in
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: the shoe or not, but I remember when we responded,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I remember it was me and redacted. I honestly couldn't
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: tell you who the other two officers on duty up
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: there were. Maybe Redacted was one of the officers, but
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I know when we responded, when we go there, I
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: remember seeing Redacted. Question, were you working at the SHU
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: at the time? Thomas, no, I was internal that day. Question, alright,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: so I'm assuming that you weren't the first to arrive. Thomas, no,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I wasn't the first to arrive. No, absolutely not. Question, okay,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: so that's what I thought you meant by being the
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: second one there. So can you just explain what you
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: meant by that? Thomas, from what I can remember, I
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't the first to respond. I wasn't the first person
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: on site. But I did eventually get there. Question, okay,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: so you were one of the first responders? Thomas, I
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: was one of the responding, yes. Question, and when you
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: go there, what did you see? Thomas, by the time
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I got there, they were actually, they were actually just
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: bringing him out. Question, bringing who out? Thomas, Mr. Epstein,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: they were bringing out Mr. Epstein. Question, out of his cell? Thomas,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: out of his cell, yeah. Question, where were they bringing
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: him to? Thomas, we was taking him to the suicide,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: which is down to the second floor. Question, okay, so
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: they were moving him from the shoe to the suicide
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: watch area? Thomas, to the suicide watch area on the
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: second floor? Question, and do you know why he was removed? Thomas,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I guess they say he tried to commit suicide or whatever. Redacted, okay,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: did you hear anything about Tartaglione attempting to harm Epstein? Thomas,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I can't recall what he would say. I think he
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: said he tried to beat him up or something like that.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I think he said he tried to beat him up.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I really don't remember the exact details of what he
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: was saying. Question, okay, Thomas, but I think he said
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: he was trying to beat me up or something like that. Redacted,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: so Epstein was claiming that Thomas trying to beat him
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: up or something like that. Question, was he saying that
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: he didn't try to commit suicide, but rather that Tartaglione
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: was trying to harm him? Thomas, I remember him saying
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: that Tartaglione was trying to beat him up. I remember
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: him saying that. Redacted, okay, and did he tell you that? Thomas,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: he was just saying that. Well, we were talking. So yes,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: he did tell me that when we were talking. Question,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Was that when you responded or during your psychological observation
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: or suicide watch observation? Thomas, it was just when we
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: were in observation together. Question, okay. Thomas, when I say
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: he was really incoherent, he was just saying because actually
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: me and Redacted was there for a while. It wasn't
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: just me by myself for maybe 10-15 minutes when we
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: got him. Let's say half an hour. Got him there.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: got him to clothed, got him into the suicide room.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: And then the Lieutenant was there. Who was the Lieutenant there?
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: I can't remember who was the Lieutenant there. And because
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I don't have keys and stuff for that, for the
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: suicide room question, what is redacted first name? Are you aware, Thomas?
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I really don't know. Question. You don't know Thomas. I
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: really don't know. Question. That's fine. Did you, when you responded,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: did you see any kind of like orange homemade rope
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: or anything like that? Thomas, no, I didn't notice. Question,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: that was used to try to... He gets cut off
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: by Thomas. I don't remember seeing any of that stuff. Question, no. So,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: but you did have a conversation with Epstein about Tartaglione
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: trying to harm him. Thomas, he said that Tartaglione tried.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I remember him saying he was trying to harm him,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: and that was it, yeah. Question, okay, and did you
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: believe that to be true? Thomas, I didn't. Question, no. Answer,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I don't. I really didn't. Question, so do you think
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: he was using it? Why do you think he said it? Question,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: he just wanted to get out of the cell. I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: don't know. I really don't. I really don't know. Question, okay,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: but you didn't believe it. You believe that he was
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: actually trying to harm himself rather than the other cellmate
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: trying to harm him? Thomas, inmates say things. I really
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: don't know if he was. I really don't know. I
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: really don't know. Just me at the time. I was
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: just sitting there. He wanted to talk. I'm there. Why
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: not talk? question absolutely but it didn't cause you concern
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: when he was saying that another inmate was trying to
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: harm him thomas well it was passed up and everything
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: like that because when he came out he said it
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: was said it to the lieutenant and everything like that
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: so everybody was known but as far as anything any
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: concern no inmates harm each other all the time question
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: sure do you know if at that time tartaglione thomas
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: it's all right i can't pronounce his name either Redacted,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Tartaglione was moved and no longer Epstein's cellmate. Thomas, I'm
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: sure if they said he tried to harm, I'm sure
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: he was no longer his cellmate after that. I'm sure. Question, okay.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Do you know around how long he was on suicide
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: watch and then psychological observation outside of the shoe? Thomas, no. Question,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: all right. So does July 23rd to approximately July 30th
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: sound to be about right? Thomas, I don't know. Question, sure. Thomas,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I don't work in that area. Question. No, that's fine.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: So if Epstein came back to the shoe on July 30th, 2019,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: do you know if he was assigned another cellmate? Thomas.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they wouldn't put him back in the same one.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: So I would say yes. I don't know specifically, but
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: he gets cut off. But he added another cellmate. Thomas.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe he could have been solo. I don't know. I
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: really don't know. Question. Do you recall checking? Being that
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: he's such a high-profile inmate, you know, in the shoe,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: do you remember ever, you know, when you were in
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: the shoe, you remember seeing two people in his cell? Thomas,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I really don't recall. Question, you don't know? Thomas, I mean,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: it could have been two people. It could have been
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: him by himself. I really don't remember. Mr. Redacted, do
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: you know what inmate? Thomas, exact or counts? Question, sure.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I'll try to help your recollection. Do you recall an
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: inmate named Efren Reyes? Thomas, no. Question, so you don't
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: remember that name? Thomas, no. Question, so he was Epstein's
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: cellmate from July 30th through August 9th. Thomas, okay. Redacted,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: are you not familiar with that? Thomas, no. I don't
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: know who that is. Question, okay. Were you there at
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: all when Epstein was returned from Suicide Watch, Psychological Observation Area,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: back to the shoe? Thomas, no. Question, no. So you're
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: not sure if Reyes was already in the cell or not? Thomas,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Like I said, if you could look
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: at that thing, Morning Watch, so... They're all in their
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: cells tucked in at that time. So I couldn't tell
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: you who was in there. Gets cut off. Okay. And
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: do you know anything about Reyes being removed from the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: MCC on August 9th, 2019? Thomas, no, I don't. Question.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: You don't know that. So on August 9th, when you
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: probably got there and through August 10th, when you worked there,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: that wasn't discussed at all? That Reyes was removed and
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Epstein was without a cellmate? Thomas, no. Question. No. You
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: didn't have that discussion with, you didn't work with that night? Thomas, well,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I know the 10th. I know who I work with.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: The 9th, I don't know who I was up there with.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Redacted in the shoe? Thomas, yeah. Question, you're not familiar
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: with who you were with in the shoe? Thomas on
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: the 9th? Question, no, on the 10th. Thomas on the 10th, yeah.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Miss Noelle? Question, so I'm sorry, when I said the 9th,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I meant you probably arrived at the institution prior to
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: 12 a.m. Thomas, yeah, I arrived to it, but I
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: didn't go straight up there. I went down to the
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: office for, I didn't go straight up to the shoe. Redacted, okay, right.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: So that's what I'm saying. You arrived there on the
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: night of August 9th and then worked in the shoe
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: from midnight August 10th to 8 p.m. Or 8 a.m.,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: excuse me. Mr. Thomas, oh, see, okay. Now, I see
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: what you're saying. Yeah, I got there, let's say, at 11.50
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: or 10 minutes prior to try to be there a
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: little early. But I thought, when you keep saying the 9th,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: as it shows I worked on the 9th, that's why.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: But if I got there on the 9th at 10.50,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Miss Noel was up there. I can't remember who the
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: other person was because it's usually two people. It had
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: to be two people. I can't remember who the other
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: person was. Question, sure. And so I'll just ask that
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: last question to make sure that we're on the same page.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: When you arrived, prior to your August 10th shift on
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: August 9th, at approximately 11.50pm, was Reyes discussed, inmate Reyes,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: or the fact that Epstein was without a cellmate? Mr. Thomas, no. Question, no. Okay.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: And do you know if Epstein should have been assigned
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: a cellmate? Mr. Thomas, I don't know. Well, usually if
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: you're committed, if someone commits, they usually try to not
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: put them by themselves. Question, right. So if you come
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: back from suicide watch or psychological observation, you're supposed to
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: have a cellmate. Mr. Thomas, uh-huh. Question, correct. Mr. Thomas,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: but that would have been done prior to my shift.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: That wouldn't have been done on the morning watch shift.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: No movement happens on the morning watch shift. That happens
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: prior to my shift. Question. Absolutely. But just my point
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: being that people that come off the psychological observation or
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: suicide watch, they're required to have a cellmate, correct? Mr. Thomas. Yes. Question. Okay.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: And is there some kind of like hot list that's
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: in there? Thomas, it is. I do recall you're saying
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: hot list. There's something called the hot list. I don't
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: know where it's at or anything like that, but I'm
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: sure they do have something called the hot list. Question,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: what is the hot list? Mr. Thomas, the MCC definition
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: of it, I don't know. I know it's just inmates
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that are, it could be inmates that are cellies. It
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: could be, that means that they're in the cell rec alone.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: It could be the inmate's suicide watch. It could be
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: the inmate's mental instability. Question, okay. Mr. Thomas, hot list,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: it's a culmination of a bunch of different things. Redacted. Question,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Why are people placed on the hot list? Mr. Thomas,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I don't place people on the hot list. I don't know.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: That's psychology. Question, yeah. So if it's up there, though,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: for people to see that this is the hot list,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: is there like a reason? Is it something like these
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: people all need cellmates? These people need special attention. These people, Thomas,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I really don't know. I couldn't tell you that. It's
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: just like a hot list. I know it's a hot list.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: The psychology put, I don't know if it's particularly that
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: all these people need cellmates or the hot list, or
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I know that there's something called the hot list at MCC.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know where they or where you get on
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: the hot list. Question. So not what it takes to
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: get on it, but why it's posted there. Like if
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: you're on the hot list, what does that mean? Thomas,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: like I said, it could have been he gets cut off.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: So if there is a description next to a name,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: does it say you're on the hot list because of
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: this reason? Thomas. I really can't remember. Question. Okay, but
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: there's a hot list within the shoe. Thomas. Yeah, there
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: is a hot list. All right, folks, we're going to
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: wrap up right here. And in the next episode, we're
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All of
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: going to dive right back in and pick up where
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: we left off with the Michael Thomas interview with the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: OIG inspectors. Question. So you recall a hot list. You
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: don't remember seeing it, Thomas. I don't remember seeing it.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: No question. Okay. So you never like reviewed it or anything, Thomas.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I don't remember reviewing it. No, I don't question. Were
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: you supposed to, if you were assigned to the shoe interview,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Were you supposed to say, oh, these people are on
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: the hot list. I need to take special care of
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: these people. Thomas, I don't think so, no. Question, no. Thomas,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't think it was anything special.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Care about these people or not? Absolutely not. Question, so
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: what would be the purpose of posting a hot list then?
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Who would it be for? Thomas, it's for the staff
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: in the shoe. Question, right. Thomas, it's for the staff
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in the shoe. Question, so if you're staff in the shoe,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't that mean that you're supposed to look at it? Thomas,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: supposed to for the staff, yeah, you're supposed to look
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: at it. Question, alright, but you didn't? Thomas, I would
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: say no, I didn't look at it that night, no. Question,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: fair enough, so do you know if Epstein was on
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the hot list? Thomas, I don't know if he was
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: on the hot list. Question, but do you know he
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: was on suicide watch and that he should have had
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: a cellmate? Thomas, Yes. I knew that he was a
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: suicide person. Yes. Question. Okay. Now could shoe staff have
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: assigned Epstein a new cellmate? Thomas, could shoe staff do it?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know if shoe staff could do it. I
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: know the shoe lieutenant or something like that could do it,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: but I don't know if shoe staff could just give them.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question. So who would be responsible for
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: assigning Epstein a new cellmate? So let me restate that
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: if it wasn't clear. Reyes was his cellmate. He was
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: required to have a cellmate because he was on suicide watch. Thomas, yeah? Question.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: And psychology made sure, or was supposed to make sure,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: that everyone knew that he was supposed to have a cellmate. Thomas, okay? Question.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: So if Reyes leaves as his cellmate on August 9th, 2019,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: who would be responsible for replacing a new cellmate with Epstein? Thomas, honestly,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm sure it has to come from
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: somebody up high. obviously a lieutenant or it could have
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: sometimes high profile could come from administration. Question. Okay. Answer.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Whatever the case may be. So specifically, I really don't know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: but I know it's somebody higher up has to give
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: them higher up than me. Question. Okay. Answer. I don't
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: think an officer would just put somebody in there with them. Question. Okay.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Now is that discussed at all? Like during any of
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: those trainings or the suicide prevention training, Is it discussed like, hey,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: if you know this guy is on suicide watch, make
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: sure he's got a cellmate? Thomas, I don't think so.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's discussed like that. No, I don't. Question.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: All right. So how do you know that if you're
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: on suicide watch, they should, the inmate should have a cellmate? Thomas,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, we were told. You're told before that if
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: an inmate is previously been on suicide, that he has
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: a cellmate. Question, so I guess what I'm asking is
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: when were you told that and where? Thomas, I've been
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: there for 14. I mean, I can't remember exactly. Question,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: so possibly training? Thomas, possibly training? Word of mouth like,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. Question, you knew it, but you
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: just don't remember where you learned it from? Thomas, yeah,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: that's correct. But then you have inmates that go on
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: suicide watch and come back that don't have a cellmate.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: So I've seen that also. Have inmates go there, come
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: off suicide, and not have a cellmate. Question, would there
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: be a reason for a person who came off suicide
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: watch not to have a cellmate? Mr. Thomas, I don't
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: know the reason or anything. Like I said, that's also
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the psychology personnel that handle that. But I've seen also
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: with inmates... come up and they go into a cell
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: by themselves. Question, okay. And again, I don't know that
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: this was clear. If you're working in the shoe and
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: you know someone is supposed to have a cellmate, are
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: you authorized to provide them with a new cellmate? Mr. Thomas,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, you don't know? Thomas, I don't know. Question,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: have you ever done it? Thomas, no, I've never done it. Question,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you've never done that. Thomas, no, I've never just put
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: somebody inside. Are we talking about suicide? I've never just
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: put somebody in a cell with somebody else. Question, okay. Thomas,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: especially not at morning watch. Absolutely not. Question, as someone
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: in the shoe working in there and knowing someone without
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a cellmate that should have a cellmate, should you report
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: it to the lieutenant? Thomas, if they don't have a cellmate,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: should you report it to the lieutenant? I don't know.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, usually if that happens. The lieutenant, because with
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: certain inmates, you can't just put somebody in with them
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: like that. It could be a racial thing. It could
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: have been a previous incident. He could be whatever the
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: case may be. So I know officers don't want to
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: just do it because when they say that the person
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: can't be with them. And also before you put an
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: inmate inside, you have to check their background as far
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: as steps. So this person can't be with this person
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: or this one is affiliated with this and this person.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: So for an officer, because some officers don't have the programming,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, don't have the thing just to say, oh, well,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I'm going to see inmate this and I'm going to
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: put him into that. So that's why an officer wouldn't
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: just put an inmate inside with another. You know what
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I mean? It has to come down from up top. Question.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: All right. From your knowledge, being that Reyes left and
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Epstein is required to have a cellmate and didn't have one.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Do you believe shoe staff should have assigned Epstein a
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: new cellmate? Answer, I don't know. Question, so per your
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: training and your work experience, Thomas, should shoe staff have
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: assigned them? No, I believe that should have come from
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: somebody else above them. Question, okay. Thomas, somebody above the
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: shoe staff. Question, so if the shoe staff doesn't inform
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: anyone about an inmate required to have a cellmate that
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: they don't, how do people higher above them learn that
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: that there is no cellmate with someone like Epstein, Thomas, well,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: whoever is on shift at the time. It's a process.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Like if someone leaves and goes from R & D,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: a staff member can't just let somebody leave. You know,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I can't just let somebody walk just because he walk
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: in and then he walks out. He has to come
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: from R & D. Oh, this person was released. And
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: then because then the base count changes. And then, so
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: it's notified before it gets to the SHU staff that
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: somebody left. Now, if it wasn't, you know, that specific
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: that Ray has left, you know what I mean? That
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, I know before it gets to the SHU
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: staff happened to put somebody in there. It has to
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: come from someone else to know that inmates left from
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: a particular housing unit or SHU have to tell them
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the inmate left from a particular. Now, whether they know
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: That it was Epstein's cellmate that left, I don't know.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: That's above me. But it comes from way up. It
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: comes from before it gets to the shoe staff that
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: somebody left. The only thing that shoe staff is going
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: to get is a call saying that, oh, base count changed.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Such and such is not there. Question, so if the
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: people that are calling shoe and saying, hey, this inmate
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: is leaving, so is this instance, it would be August 9th,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: shoe staff. You weren't there. But shoe staff gets the call,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: and hey, inmate Reyes is leaving. Do those people know
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: that Reyes was assigned to Epstein? Thomas, I mean, I'm
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: sure they should have. Question, or would the shoe staff
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: be responsible for saying he's leaving? But Epstein is required
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: to have a cellmate. That's Epstein's cellmate. How does that
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: information get passed along? Thomas, I don't know. Question, okay. Thomas,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know when that particular, when that will happen.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: I really couldn't tell you when that call would actually
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: go down. Question, okay. And this is specific to you.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: If you said you didn't, but you would, been authorized
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: to assign Epstein a new cellmate during your shift on
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: August 10th, 2019, Thomas, would I have been authorized to
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: do it? Question, right. So if you knew that Epstein
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: was required to have a cellmate, Thomas, If somebody would
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: have told me to give him, I wouldn't have just
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: taken it upon myself to take an inmate out from
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: X and put him in there with Epstein. No. If
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: somebody authorized me to put him in there, then I
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: would have put him in there. Question. But you wouldn't
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: have that authorization to do it independently? Thomas, independently? No. Question.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: So you couldn't on your own make the decision? Hey,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: he's without an inmate. He's without a cellmate. I need
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: to get a new inmate in there. Thomas, I'm going
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: to say no. Question, okay. Thomas, I'm going to say no.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Not especially with a high profile. You're not just going
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: to put somebody in with somebody else. Absolutely not. Question,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: all right. And obviously, since you didn't know, I believe
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I already know the answer to this, but did you
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: notify anyone during your shift on August 10th that Epstein
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: did not have a cellmate? Thomas, no. Question, no. All right.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Now we're going to talk a little bit about staff
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: psychologists because you mentioned them. Do you know who the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: MCC staff psychologists were in August of 2019? Thomas, Dr. Redacted.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Is Dr. Redacted the chief? Thomas, yeah, the chief or
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: whatever it's called. Are you aware of Epstein meeting with
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: any of the staff psychologists during his stay at the MCC? Thomas, no. Question, no. Thomas, no,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not. Question, so would have, Thomas cuts him off.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I'm sure if he went on suicide, I'm sure he
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: met with him. But I don't know specifically that they
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: go on this date and he met with him. If
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: he was on suicide watch, I'm sure he met with someone. Question,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: now who places someone on suicide watch? Thomas, psychology. Question, okay,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: so if Epstein, like you said, was on suicide watch,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: would psychology then place him there? Thomas, well, a psychology
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: will say that He has to go there, and then
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: the staff, the custody staff, would actually take him to
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the suicide area. Question, okay, and just briefly, what is
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Suicide Watch? Answer, it's a place where you watch somebody
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: on suicide. Question, like you said, did you say the
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: second floor? Thomas, it's on the second floor. Question, so
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the second floor is a separate area? Thomas, it's a
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: separate area, four cells. And in the pack, you can,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I've seen Suicide Watch, be in the shoes sometimes. Question,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: and just on that note, where is the shoe? What floor? Thomas, ninth. Question,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: ninth floor. All right, so he was on the ninth floor,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: went down to the second floor, Epstein that is, on
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Suicide Watch. So it's the second floor, and like, how
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: long are they there? Like, who makes the determination, I
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: guess is what I'm saying. Who's in there? Is psychology, like,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: co-located with it? Or how is it, you know, the
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Suicide Watch area? How is that set up? Thomas, it's
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a room on the second floor. It's four rooms on
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: the second floor. Single rooms. Big glass door. Food slot.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Same on the other side. There are two adjoining doors.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: It has a shower there. So, like, if you have
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to shower, then there is a closet. Question, is psychology
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: near there? Thomas, the psychology is down the hall. Question,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: also on the second floor? Thomas, also on the second floor. Question.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: So would they, do you believe that they would meet
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: with people that are on suicide watch? Answer. I'm sure. Yes. Question. Okay.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right there.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, dealing with the topic, we're
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All of
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up everyone and welcome to
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode we're
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: going to get right back to the Michael Thomas investigation
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: with the OIG investigators. Question, so when you're watching Epstein
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: on July 23rd, did you see a psychologist talk with
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: him at all? Thomas, that was on the morning watch,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: but no psychologist is on duty. Question, oh, okay. So,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: you were there from 8? You were watching him? Thomas,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: from midnight to 8 a.m. Thomas, well, I was watching
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: him until, well, exactly from 1.30 to 8 a.m. Question, now,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: when inmates, though like Epstein, he's on suicide watch and
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: then placed back into the shoe, how soon after are
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: they typically provided a cellmate? Mr. Thomas, I don't know. Question,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: is it right away? Thomas, I'm sure it's right away. Question.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: So it's like you typically, like is a cellmate already
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: in there when they place him in with someone? Thomas,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It could be either or. I'm sure
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: that they made certain provisions and stuff to make sure
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: that he was with somebody that he felt comfortable with
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: or whatever the case. Question, do inmates that are on
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: suicide watch and psychological observation, do they always go from
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: there to the shoe? or ever into somewhere else. Thomas,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: what do you mean? Question, so if someone's on suicide watch,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: or a psychological observation. Thomas, on the second floor. Question,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: on the second floor. When they're released from that, do
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: they always get placed into the shoe? Thomas, no. It
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: can be either or. If they have some more shoe time,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: that they have to serve, or anything like that, they
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: can go back to the shoe. But their shoe time
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: is up, I'm assuming I'll say it's whatever the psychologists say.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: If they say that they're cleared to go to population,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: they'll take them to population. Question. Okay. What's the difference
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: between suicide watch and psychological observation? Thomas suicide watch. One
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: has a smock and a blanket and observation. They have
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: clothes question. That's the only difference. Thomas. That's the only difference.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: We still just watching them out there. There's no difference. Thomas,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. Yeah, no difference. You watch them. Question,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: same area, same cell, just what they're wearing? Thomas, yeah,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: same area, same cells, and what they're wearing. Absolutely. Question, okay,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: and is it your understanding the Epstein was both on
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: suicide watch and psychological observation? Thomas, I don't know if
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: he was on psychological. I knew when I watched them
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: he was on suicide watch at the time. Question, okay.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Did any other inmate that you were in the shoe
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: when you were working in the shoe in July and
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: August 2019, were any of them also people that were
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: on suicide watch or a psychological observation? Thomas, I don't know. Question, no.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Would that be on the hot list if they were? Thomas,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: it probably would. I don't know if it's something that
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: other inmates, I couldn't tell you. That there was five
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: times suicides or that, I couldn't tell you. Question, okay,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: and are there any other additional requirements for people to
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: come off of suicide watch or psychological observation, aside from
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: having a cellmate? Thomas, I don't know. Question, do they
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: have to get, do they have to pay closer attention
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: to them? Thomas, I don't think so. I just say
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that everything is still standard practice. Question, okay, so when
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: you're working in the shoe, do you treat everybody the same? Thomas, no,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I treat everybody the same. Question, okay. So you don't
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: look after certain people more than others? Thomas, no. I
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: don't pay more attention to one person or another. Question, okay.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: And is that the case with Epstein as well? You
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: weren't informed like, hey, make sure you're paying more attention
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: to him. He's your priority. Thomas, no. Question, so no
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: one ever said Thomas cuts him off? No, absolutely not.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Back to the question that he's a priority inmate. Okay.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: And I may have asked you this, so I apologize
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: if it's repetitive. Thomas, it's all right. Question. But was
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Epstein required to have a cellmate during his stay in
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: the shoe? Thomas, I don't know. Question. You just don't know. Thomas,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly. But I don't know. I don't know.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: But I would say if he was previous suicide, yeah.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: He was probably required to have an inmate. Question. Are
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: you aware that the staff psychologist ever issued a requirement
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: for him to have a cellmate? Thomas, no I'm not.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, so did anyone, including the psychologist, peers, supervisors,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: or others, ever tell you that Epstein was required to
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: have a cellmate? Thomas, no. Question, do you have the email? Mr. Redacted,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: let me see. Is there one more stack? Redacted, so
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: this is the email from that redacted from psychology. And
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: it says, to suicidewatch.com, Psychological Observation Update 730-2019. Do you
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: know if you ever received this email? It says inmate
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Epstein is being taken off psych observation and needs to
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: be housed with an appropriate cellmate. Do you remember ever
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: receiving that? Thomas, usually they send this out to everybody
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: like it's sent out to everybody, but I don't remember
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: seeing it. I'm sure if it was sent out and
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: all that stuff, I'm sure it got to me, but
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I don't remember seeing it. Question note. and I'm not
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: saying that you received it. I'm just asking if you
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: had received it. Like, either by forward, did anyone ever
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: forward the email to you? Or did anybody? Did you
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: ever see it? Thomas, no, my name's not on here. Question, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: I know, your name isn't on here. Thomas, uh-huh. Question,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: you're right. That's why I'm just asking if you have
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: ever forwarded that to you. Thomas, uh-huh. Question, okay, do
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: any of these names that are on here, especially towards
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: the bottom here, Any of those names look like people
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: that would work in the shoe? Thomas, it could be
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: a bunch of these people that worked in the shoe.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know specifically who works in the shoe. Question. Okay,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: but because you weren't on a regular shoe schedule, you
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: may not. Thomas interrupts them. Yeah, yeah. They may not
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: have forwarded that to you. One of those is the chaplain.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: That's okay, but you never, none of these people ever
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: forwarded this to you. Thomas, no. Question, okay. Just because
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: we talked about it, do you mind just initialing it
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: and dating it? Thank you, sir. Mr. Thomas, I wrote 20,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: so I initialed over it. I put the 1 because
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I initialed over it. When writing it. Redacted, what's that? Thomas,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I put 20. Question, this said 19, yeah. Thomas, no,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I put 20, so I put the 1, and I
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: put my initials over it. Oh, okay, got it. Alright, thanks. So,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: no one ever informed you that even, not only... That but,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: you needed to keep a closer eye on Mr. Epstein. Thomas, no,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I don't ever recall being informed about that, no. Thomas,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a custody, he gets cut off, sure.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't know during your times that you're actually in
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: the shoe. People talking about, like, I'm in at midnight,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: everybody's gone. Just the people, because you're always with at
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: least one other person, right? Thomas, yeah. Question, but the
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: other person, you never had this. Thomas, I don't recall. Question, conversation. Okay,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: do you recall who the MCC warden in July of
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: August 2019 was? Mr. Thomas, I can't pronounce his first name.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Redacted question, is it redacted? Thomas, I was about to
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: say captain, but redacted. Thomas, but you said the warden, right? Question, yeah.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: So he gives them the name. Question, okay, good. What
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: communication do you have with MCC Warden with regarding to
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: the Epstein being housed within the MCC? Thomas, I don't recall. Question, none. Thomas, no. Question,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: so I'm going to go through just a couple of
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: names and the reason why I'm going to ask the
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: same questions. And the intention is not to be repetitive,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: but for you to specifically think these people to just
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: see if that helps you recall. Thomas, no. you know,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: jog something. Question, yeah, you know, so you can visualize
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: that person. Question, so did the warden ever provide you
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: with special instructions with Epstein? Thomas, no, not that I recall. Question, okay,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: did the warden ever tell you that Epstein was required
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: to have a cellmate while housed at MCC or assigned
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: to the SHU? Thomas, not that I recall. Question, did
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the warden ever visit the SHU during Epstein's stay at
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the MCC? Thomas, I don't know. Question, you don't know
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: because you weren't there during the days. Does the warden
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: typically just work during the day watch? Thomas, no. I
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: actually had an overtime shift with the warden sometime when
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: he helped out with, he worked the shoe with me
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: one time. Question, when did he do that? Thomas, I
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: can't recall. Question, what did it have been like in
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: the July or August of 2019? Thomas, nah, this was
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: a long time ago. A long time ago. Question, same warden? Thomas, yeah,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: same warden. Question, okay. Do you recall any times that
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: you were in the shoe? During July and August during
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Epstein's stay that the warden visited? Thomas, no. I'm on
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: morning watch. Question, right. That's what I meant. Because you
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: had said that sometimes he did though. Thomas, yeah. Question, okay,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: but not during that time. Thomas, not during my time, no. Question,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: do you know if the warden ever met with Epstein
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: during his stay here at MCC? Mr. Thomas, I don't know. Question,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: who are the MCC associate wardens in August of 2019? Thomas, redacted.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: And honestly, I can't remember the other one. Question, did
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: the warden ever talk to you about Epstein? Okay, did
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: any AWs or associate wardens? Thomas, no. Question, all right. Thomas,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: not any. Question, so what communications did you have with
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: any MCC, AWs, including redacted, about Epstein being housed? Within
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: the MCC? None. What AWS did you communicate with? And
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: how were those communications conducted? Did you ever discuss anything
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: with AWS? Did you ever have conversations with them? Thomas
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: how's your day going question yeah but not like sitting
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: down talking about different inmates or something Thomas no question
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: no all right and did any AWS ever provide you
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: with any information with regard to Epstein Thomas no question
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: or special instruction Thomas no Question, and did any AW,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: including AW Redacted, ever tell you that Epstein was required
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: to have a cellmate? Thomas, no. Question, did any AW
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: ever visit the shoe while you were in the shoe? Thomas, no. Question, no.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Did any AW ever meet with Epstein during his stay
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: at MCC? Thomas, I don't know. Question, okay, who was
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: the MCC captain in July 2017? And August of 2019, Thomas,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I see his face, but I can't remember his name. Question,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: was it redacted? Thomas, yeah, there you go, there you go. Question,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: so it was redacted? Thomas, yeah. Question, okay, what communication
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: did you have with Captain, redacted, with regarding to Epstein
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: being housed? At MCC, none. Would you have any communication
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: with the Captain? Thomas, no, passing by. Question, did the
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: captain ever provide you with special instructions with regard to Epstein? Thomas, no. Question,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: did the captain ever tell you that Epstein was required
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: to have a cellmate? Thomas, no. Question, did the captain
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: ever visit the SHU during Epstein's stay at MCC? Thomas,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, did the captain ever, but not
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: while you were at the SHU? Thomas, not while I
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: was in the shoe, no. Question, did the captain ever
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: have a meeting with Epstein during his stay at the MCC? Thomas,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, question, do you want to take
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: a break right now? Answer, yes. Okay, so we're going
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: to take a break right here as well. And in
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. All of the information
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: description box.