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Some Interesting Curses · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and Chuck's here,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm Jerry's here. So that makes the Stuff you Should Know.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: And I guess we're just get to call this one
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: of our silly editions.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it's silly. I think it's
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: kind of fun. People like caring about curses even though
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: you know it's not a real thing, right.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I would call silliness fun inherently.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, then we're in agreement.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I just want to clear up whether or not we
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: were a cursed podcast, because we are. We've had pretty
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: good successes at our curse.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Well, no, don't you remember we have a curse on
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: other people's TV shows and our own.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Actually, oh, that's right. When we would mention something, a
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: TV show would get canceled.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Right, No, when we would go on a TV show,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: it would get canceled. Oh yeah, it happened to I
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: don't remember the name of her program, but one of
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Solidad O'Brien's shows. Yeah, the whatever show with the Alexis
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: and Jennifer Uh huh. Jeff Probs daytime talk.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Show yeah, propsed in it up. I think it's called.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure there's more, but like all three of
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: those we went on and like seriously, within weeks they
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: were canceled off the air or something.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Man, now I'm suddenly glad we never went on Conan O'Brien.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah really, So, yes, we have our own curse, which
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: is hilarious and wonderful because I think that's just one
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: more one more feather to put in our cap, you know.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: That's right. And as you pointed out, we when we
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: went on our own TV show that was also canceled.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was bound to happen, actually got canceled.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I always say canceled, it was not renewed. There's a difference.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a big difference. Canceled is like just stop,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: stop to stop.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: It is like, you know, we covered one show last
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: week that had a radar show for mash had a pilot,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: and that got.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Canceled, yeah, like mid air basically.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, before it hit the West coast. So that made
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: me feel a lot better.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So let's just say, let's just give a little heads
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: up to everybody, especially the people who are like all
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I want is science from stuff you should know. This
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: is like I said, it's a little silly. You said,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: it's going to be fun. A lot of this stuff
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: is just legend. So we kind of tried to fact
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: check as much as we could, but factchecking is a
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: little bit beyond the point because when you start to
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: look into them, everything just falls apart. So that's why,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: you know, we're basically doing an anthropological view of some
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: famous curses or interesting curses that aren't necessarily famous.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: That's right, And we're going to start with the curse
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: on Brunswick Springs, and that is a place in Brunswick, Vermont, Yeah,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: that has has a spring, has actually six of them,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: and each one of these they're pretty great springs. They
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: have some different minerals flowing out of each one, magnesium, sulfur, bromide, calcium, iron,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: and arsenic and because you know, springs are a great
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: place to heal oneself depending on what's going on with
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: you and what the spring can offer. And so obviously
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of people over the years have tried to
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: you know, capitalize and charge money on these springs, but
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: not anymore.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: No, they actually kind of stopped trying. And the reason
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: why is because there's a curse on the springs. We'll
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: see what the deal is with that starting now.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Sound like you're gonna say right after this break.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Or something, So let's all go with the Abenaki, chuck.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they are an Algonquin speaking tribe and they have
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: lived in that area. And you know, Brunswick, Verman is
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: a lovely area, so I don't blame them, but they've
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: been living there for about twelve thousand years. And they
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: obviously were the first ones to say like, hey, this
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: spring is pretty great. Because they are a indigenous tribe,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: they considered it a sacred place and they thought that
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: the springs had mystical healing powers and you know, at
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: the very least they probably have some sort of health benefits.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure, but this was like sacred ground to the Abenaki.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: It still is as a matter of fact, and so
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: as part of their oral tradition and as far as
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: legend goes too, during the French and Indian War, the
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Abanaki brought a wounded French soldier. And remember French and
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Indian War doesn't mean the French were fighting the Native Americans.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: They were fighting together against the British right. So the
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: French soldier was fighting alongside the Abenaki. He got wounded,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: and depending on who you ask, either he was wounded
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: in his arm and was probably going to lose it.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: He was mortally wounded. The point of the story is
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: that he was wounded. They took him to Brunswick Springs
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: and he was miraculously cured by the spring water. It
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: was a really bro gesture of the Abenaki to do
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: that for him.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So obviously that soldier is like, hey,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: this worked wonders for me. I think I can probably
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: make a little money on this thing. So he returned
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: later after he was healed. He took over this ring
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: basically and started bottling and selling the water, and the
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Abenaki confronted him were like, this is no good. There
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: was a bit of a tiff that broke out and
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: bloodshed as a result. There was the death of a
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: man and his infant child, which is super sad, and
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: the wife and mother of those two basically said, all right,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: you know what that means. It's cursed time anyone from
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: here till the end of time that comes along, and
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I'm summarizing, of course that comes along and tries to
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: exploit these sacred Springs for profit shall be cursed and
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: it will not be a success.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is kind of a mild curse for having
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: just lost your husband and baby.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, like, and also you suffer illness
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and disease and die.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. So, very shortly after that, the British one,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: essentially the French Indian War, and the Abenaki were removed
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: from the area around the Brunswick Springs and they were
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: essentially moved out of the way by British colonists who
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: settled around there, and so they essentially lost control over
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: their sacred ground. And one hundred years after that, somebody
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: finally was like, we're going to build a resort here,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: like these are this is a great spa, right, So
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: they built a spa resort and there's a website called
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the Vermonter and they did a great story on this.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: But they turned up a hotel brochure from the eighteen
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: sixties and it said that the spa offered medicine waters
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: from the Great Spirit. So, just to add insult to injury,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: not only have they been like this is our spring, now, thanks,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: you go move somewhere else, they were like, by the way,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: even the Native Americans think this is pretty amazing, so
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: come pay to stay here. So the hotel actually did
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: fairly well for the first few decades, and then the
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: curse finally woke up and was like where am I. Oh, yeah,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I better get to business.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: That's right. I'm surprised when they included that medicine water
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: from the Great Spirit, like they were really asking for
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: it at that point. But that didn't awaken the curse.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: But you were right. What would awaken the curse would
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: be when a dentist took it over and expanded the resort.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: And this was in eighteen ninety four and it burned
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: to the ground. About twenty years after that, a guy
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: named John Hutchins bought the place rebuilt it, and this
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: was in nineteen twenty nine. That also burned down. So
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: he's like, all right, I guess I'm going to rebuild
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: it again, and I'm going to add a couple of
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: more hotels to make it worth my while. They all
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: burned down in nineteen thirty and nineteen thirty one, so
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: he was like, all right, I guess this place really
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: is cursed. I'm out of here.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And since then, no one's tried to rebuild there again,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and the ruins of the hotel are still around. It's
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: pretty cool. There's some good photos of it on that
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Vermont website. There's like a couple foundations the old train
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: platforms there, there's some staircases that go into an old cellar.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: But there's never going to be anyone who tries their
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: hand at it again who says, forget this curse. I'm
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: going to try and build my own spa and see
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: if that burns down.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Why, chuck, Well, because the Abenaki tribe actually purchased the
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: land around the springs and sold it to Vermont. They said,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: all right, we're going to sell this to you. This
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: just a few years ago, and now it's held in
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: a trust and it's not ever going to be developed.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Pretty neat. Huh.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: That's a great end of that story. Agreed, And the
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Chris was able to fall back to sleep.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Go back to sleep now, curse and you're going to
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: wake up in Hollywood, California.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Well hold on, let's have Jerry put some interstitial Christmas
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: music in between these.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: All right, So hooray for Hollywood. This is when I
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: had heard of before the Curse of Attuk it's a
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: pretty well regarded curse as far as you know. In
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Hollyod with Circles, there was a script based on a book.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: It was a nineteen sixty three satirical Canadian novel called
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: The Incomparable I Took by Mordecai Rickler, and it's about
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: an Inuit hunter and poet from Canada who is discovered
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: by a documentary crew and brought back to the big
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: city of Toronto, and is you know, it's sort of
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: like a King Kong thing. It's like an exotic curiosity.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: And of course, as you know, you would expect, once
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I took us in the city, it's like a fish
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: out of water story. But then he realizes like how
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: awesome Toronto is and how great it is to be
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: a big city guy and to be famous and kind
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: of rich, and so he wants to fit in there
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: and live that life and eventually runs for office.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: You're right, it's a great satirical novel. It's essentially the
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: antithesis of Crocodile Dundee because remember, he moved to the
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: big city, but he changed the big city. The big
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: city didn't change.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Him, that's right. And there was actually a line and
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: it took where he had a knife pulled on him
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: and he said, that is a knife that was really
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: worth the effort.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: It really was. You got there eventually.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: It took me four It takes everybody.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Good lord, I've never heard so many beeps in one spot.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, okay, Jerry.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I can just see Jerry editing this with her face
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: at her hand.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: This needs to go in her blueper reel, and that
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Jerry doesn't do anymore.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I know. So what the book came out in nineteen
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: sixty eight, and it was optioned within three years. Yeah,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: sixty three, I thought sixty eight. Oh okay, so yeah,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I guess it took a little while for the Americans
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: to catch on. Yeah, they the script was purchased, it
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: took a few years to turn it into a script
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: to adapt it. And when they did adapt that, they
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: americanized it so that it took didn't come from the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: great northern reaches of Canada. That took came from Alaska.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: And he wasn't taken to Toronto. He was taken to
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: New York. Right, Yeah, so that did not trigger this
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: movie getting made. I guess. I mean, you would know
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: way better than me, But I mean like, what percentage
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: of scripts actually get made? Like, are there way more
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: scripts out there that have just been passing passed around
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: for years and years or that's actually kind of rare.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder what the percentage is. I mean, if
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: you're talking about scripts that actually get like bought by
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: a studio, I bet I bet ten percent of those
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: get made into movies.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe not wow wow, Well this was one of them.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: It was passed around Hollywood for years, years and years,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: it just never got made. But over the years there
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: are plenty of people who are like, this is a
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: great script. I want to do this movie. And the
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: first to step up came in nineteen eighty two. The
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: beginning of nineteen eighty two, an actor named John Belu
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: she I think and is Belashie Belashee. Sorry, he got
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: his hands on and he's like, I love this script.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna actually star as a took. And I guess
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: the ball didn't even begin to get rolling. It was
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: sitting there, held in place by inertia still before Bellashie died.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He died very sadly at age thirty three in
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the Chateau Marmont Hotel from doing drugs from a speedball. Yes,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: very famously. I get the picture. A dook is probably
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: a big fella. Yeah, because everybody that has followed in
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Belushi's footsteps has been, you know, of larger proportions. So
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: after Belushi passed, it went back into turnaround. It's been
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: a few more years getting kicked around. And then Sam Kennison,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: the great comedian, signed on in nineteen eighty eight, and
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: they actually started filming, right.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: I think they got eight days into it.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, did you know if.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Real quick Sam Kennison was a fire and Brimstone itinerant preacher. Yeah,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I did not know that. He started out like that
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: makes sense, I can totally see it, but wow. So yeah,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: they filmed this film eight days worth of this movie,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: and I guess Sam Kennison had really read the script
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: because after that point he was like, Hey, I really
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: want some more say and like what the script rewrights
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: are going to do? And the studio is like, a
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: We're not really happy about that, and Kennison was like, oh, yeah,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: well I'm going to deliver a terrible performance. And the
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: studio said, oh yeah, well we're going to sue you.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: And they did. They follow a lawsuit against him.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it got pretty ugly, so production was obviously halted
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: and it was still sort of in being contested when
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Sam Kennison very sadly died in a car wreck in
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two at age thirty eight.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, that's a little weird. So far two
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: actors who tried to play it took have died young.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: But surely that doesn't mean anything.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Right, No, curses aren't real.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: No, although it is real because if you continue on
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: just a few more years, it took the script claimed
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: more lives.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: That's right. In nineteen ninety six, screenwriter Michael o'donne hugh,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: who I believe was an SNL guy. Yes, the original
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: script writer. I looked him up. I can't remember his
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: name now. Maybe it was Todd Carrodge something. He was
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: a National lampoon guy, and maybe Michael o'donahue was too.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of been that world long way of saying.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: He took over, did some rewrites and recruited none other
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: than the great, great John Candy, and very sadly, we
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: all know what happened to John Candy. He passed away
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: at the age of forty three of a heart attack
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: and o'donahue also died of a cerebral hemorrhage at fifty eight,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: so that was a double curse. And this is the
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: point where I can remind everybody to go out and
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: watch the John Candy documentary because it is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, good, thank you for that. One other thing about that,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: John Candy and Michael o'donnahugh died the same year, in
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, which was also the same year that
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: they decided to make this movie.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Is that not clear?
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: No? Okay, so that was I mean to me, that's like,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: that's very surprising. Okay. I'm also you, guys, I'm not
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: this really this credulous, but it is very interesting to me. Okay,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: for sure what happened the next year, Chuck, Surely the
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: horrible reign of Terror of a took came to an
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: end after John Candy and Michael o'donnick.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: No, No, I think you know who's coming. Very sadly.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: If if there's one more person kind of waiting in
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: the wings for this kind of role, it's Chris Farley.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Of course. In nineteen ninety seven, he decided to take
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: on this role and got his buddy Phil Hartman on board,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: and we should doubly point this out. They died before
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: they could get that movie made the very same year.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that same year, the same year, Yeah, Chris Farley died,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: that's right. The next year Phil Hartman died. We did
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: a whole episode on him.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a good one.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean there's a bunch of deaths of
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: people tagged onto a Took, and It Took still hasn't
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: been made. It's a very weird curse as far as
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Hollywood curses go, and there's plenty of those. It's a
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: strange curse if you ask me. But the people that
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Tails from Development Hell website, they did a pretty good
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: article on this and they pointed out that if It
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Took is a killer script, there's other killer scripts out
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: there that all those same people were attached to it.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: At least Belushi, Kennison, Candy and Farley were.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The very famously the Great Great Book A Confederacy
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: of Dunce's has never been made, and there's been just
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: tons and tons of people attached. I think Philip Seymour
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Hoffman was attached to that as well, and he passed
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: away and I think Will Ferrell was attached. There's been
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of people attached because it's just such a
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: great book. Did you ever read that?
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: No? I is it just about like southern foibles? Or
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: is it like better, bigger?
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: It's better? Okay, Yeah, it's good.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: What's it? Foible? Just a unique kind of sometimes naked
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of characteristic or trade or habit or something like that.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Just something that makes somebody themselves and not like other
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: people that you kind of have to put up with
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna love that person. How about that?
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Oh? So I have many foibles?
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Oh I have a lot of too.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the other one? Of the Fatty Arbuckle biopic?
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: All those guys are attached to that at one point
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: That's weird that all of those guys and Philip Seymour
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Hoffman were attached to the Confederacy of Dunces too. That's interesting.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned Will Ferrell though, because I want
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to take a second and give a PSA the defensive
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Will Ferrell and John c Riley and their movie Holmes
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and Watson.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you texted me you liked it, right, Yes.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: When we did our episode on I guess, Sherlock Holmes. Yeah,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: we got a lot of hate from people who were like,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: that movie sucked, it's terrible, and it's got like a
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: really bad rating generally on it's just to.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Be just one of the worst movies. So I'm glad
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: you liked it.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: That is wrong. I mean, if you're going in looking
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: for any kind of high browse cinema, yes you're going
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: to be deeply disappointed. But if you're familiar with the
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: cinema of John c Riley and Will Ferrell together, yeah,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: you're gonna actually be pleasantly surprised, especially if you think
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: you're going in there like this movie kind of sucks.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: It's it's cute. It's a good movie as far as
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: those movies are concerned.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I want to check it out now, I will. Yeah,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: was there a Catalina wine mixer in that one?
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: No, there was not, no, nothing like that. It was
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: a very it was true to the period.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Well, I kind of want to see it now, so
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: you should see it.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I texted to you and told you to see it.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: And this is what it takes for you to finally
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: listen to me.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: All Right, I'm gonna go funder my foibles and we'll
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: be back after this.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: You came along and it was like, yeah, well we
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: were work pals.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, Chuck, We're gonna head on over to present day
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Uzbekistan and there you'll find that I had already parked
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: the way back machine. So let's get in.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: That's right, and we are talking about the Curse of
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: tamer Lame. Originally Timur the Lame, And we very much
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: need to point out here that calling someone lame is
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: not a word that we use anymore, very much an
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: antiquated term, but that was what they called Timor, and
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: it was then anglicized to tamer Lame t a m
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: E r l a n E tamer Lane, not lame, right,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: So maybe they were already getting the picture, like it's
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: not a nice thing to say, right.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: He was a fourteenth century Mongol war lord. I don't
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: don't know if he's a descendant, probably, but he's certainly
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: a successor to Genghis Khan or Chingas Khan, and very
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: much like Chingis Khan, he was responsible for the deaths
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: of lots and lots of people. Yeah, the number that
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: I see bandied about most frequently is seventeen million people, jeez,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: which even more impressive is that that is about five
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: percent of the entire global population at the time. That's
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: how many people died as a result of Tamerlane's conquests.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think by impressive you mean depressing.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Sure, yes, exactly. I mean if you are impressed by
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: large numbers regardless, what theres en that's all I mean.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So what are you into large numbers?
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, listen to this one seventeen million?
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Whoa very impressed?
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about? Deaths?
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: This date is over. So he was known as the
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: scourge of God, and he was a member of the
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: bar Last tribe or the Barlest tribe, and well you
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: already spoiled that one and what is now Ubekistan. And
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: they he was, you know, he did what they do.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: He the sacked cities all over the place, Moscow, Persia, Deli, Damascus,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: you name it. And he's you know, known as one
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: of the you know, I hate saying great, but one
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: of the great conquerors.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean as far as conquerors and all the
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: terrible things that it's attendant with being a conqueror or
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: being conquered by a conqueror, he is often placed on
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: equal footing with Darius the First Alexander the Great chingis
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Khan again.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Darius Rutger exactly.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Well, wait as the hoodie frontman or as a country star.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I think he's conquered.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: All Okay, well then, yeah, Darius Rutger makes sense. One
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: of the things, though, is about some of these conquerors,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: including tamer Lane. He was also credited with spreading a
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: lot of culture too. And there's actually a type of architecture,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: architectural style called timrod And that you can find in
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the capital city of Samarkan in Uzbekistan. It's incredibly ornate
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: and colorful and beautiful, and it's credited to his reign.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's about the best thing you could say.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: You were trying to find something positive.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Sure, if you got up pictures of that kind of
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: architectural style, you'd be like, wow, that guy is impressive.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very nice. I know you guys are all
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: going like, okay, jeez, guys, is he cursed or not?
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: So it turns out there was a curse. He died
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: in fourteen oh five during his last campaign. He fell ill,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: and he was put in an ebony coffin and entombed
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: in a mausoleum at a mosque in Samarkan, and he
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: was there just you know, entombed is a dead person
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: for about five hundred years until Stalin came along in
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: nineteen forty one and said, do you know what I
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: want to see? If this guy truly had apparently the
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: lame and again I hate even using that words, but
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: his issue was that he had issues with both his
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: right limbs, his right arm and his right leg, and
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Stalin sounds like he wanted to get down to the
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: nitty gritty and see if that was really true.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I also get the impression that Stalin was also
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: flexing his power, like over his vassal states, you know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: saying like, you're this conquering hero that's like the most
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: revered person in your culture. I can dig him up
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: basically if I want to.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: One of the other points of the expedition was that
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the leader of the expedition, Mikhail jerezim Off. Yeah, he
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: was a renowned forensic reconstructionist, so he was going to
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: take Tamberlaine's skull and basically do a lifelike likeness of
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: him from it. Right. So here's the problem with all
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: that there's a There was an inscription they say on
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Timor's tomb that read, whosoever disturbs my grave shall unleasha
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: conquer greater than I. So they enter Timor's tomb, they
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: disentomb him. I guess is what you would call that.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: They exom him.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think I zoom means take out of
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the ground. This is taking out of the right good point. Yeah,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: So they take him out of his tomb. Let's just
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: stop being hoity toity. And two days later, two days later,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Hitler rolls across the Russian border, the western Russian border,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: in the biggest land invasion ever before or since. It's
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: called Operation Barbarossa.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: And how many days later was this too?
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Just too? Yeah? Two two days after they disentombed Timor.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: The setting of two suns.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: That's all I actually saw it put like that.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it was a massive invasion. Nearly four million
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: German and Axis troops flooded there to help out. Like
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: you said, it's the largest invasion in his and as
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: many as sixteen million, not quite seventeen, but still a
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: big number. And so I hope we're all impressed. Sure,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Russian civilians, just civilians, alone were killed and millions more,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: obviously soldiers were killed, and it just the bloodshed kept
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: going on while Germany was there in Russia, and it
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: was a bad scene.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: It was a terrible scene. Right. So, like the tide
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: eventually did turn, and one of the battles that the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: whole thing turned on was the Battle of Stalingrad, which
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: is considered still to this day the bloodiest urban battle
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: in history. The USSR lost one point one million soldiers
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: in fighting in just this one city. Right, Yeah, the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Battle of Stalingrad ended about the same time that Stalin
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: ordered timors remains to be re entombed.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, as the legend goes, Stalin got a
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: little spooked and was like, all right, well maybe this thing,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: you know, this curse happened because of what I did.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: And so they put him back in there and that
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: was it. They were repelled. The Germans were repelled from
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: the USSR. But here's the deal. The curses kind of
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: not only obviously our curses not real, but this one
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't even seem to be real at all.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, like Stalin couldn't have even gotten kg about
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the curse because it seems to have been invented not
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: until two thousand and three.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and how did that happen.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Well, our friend Craig Collins on the site Hidden Compass,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: he's the one who said two suns set before the
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Nazis invaded for real. He had a really good article
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: about it. He found a Russian documentary from two thousand
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: and three and they mention, I get the sense it's
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a very History Channel esque documentary from Russia. They mentioned
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: a book that they don't name, they don't show, but
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: they say in the book there was inscribed this curse
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: saying like if you dig me up or disintune me,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: I'm going to unleash a conquer on you. That seems
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: to have kind of translated into this idea that that
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: curse was inscribed on his tomb.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Ah.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: We know for a fact it was not inscribed on
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: his tomb because that same Soviet team that disentombed Timor. Yeah,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: they copied down all of the inscriptions. One of them
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: went back and translated them all and published it as
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a book. There wasn't a single curse in there. No curse,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: but the rest of the stuff is fairly accurate. The
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: timing actually is still pretty accurate. It's just the fact
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that there wasn't an actual stated curse is the thing. Wow, Wow, indeed,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I think. But so let's stop talking about tens of
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: millions of people dying, Chuck, and let's start talking more
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: about baseball.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, America's past time. We're not going to talk about
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: the curse of the Bambino in the Red Sox. We're
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: going to talk about the other great curse, the Curse
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: of the Goat, which involves the beloved Chicago Cubs, a
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: team that I have grown to love, Yeah, merely by
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: growing up watching them on WGN after school and by
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: going to wrigley Field now a few times.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I tell everybody, Wrigley Field's the easiest ballpark to
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: just walk right into. It's wonderful.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the best. You don't even need a ticket.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: So let's get back in the way back. Let's get
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: back in the way back machine, Chuck, and talk about
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: somebody who actually did have a ticket and still had
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: a problem getting in. We're going to go back to
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: October sixth, nineteen forty five, a particularly chilly day, and
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: when we show up at wrigley Field, we're going to
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: find that the Cubs are scheduled to play the Tigers
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: in Game four of what's known as the World Series
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: of Baseball.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: That's right, and the guy trying to get in was
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: a bar owner. He owned a tavern called the Lincoln
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Tavern on Madison. His name was William Sianis. He's a
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Greek immigrant, and got a couple of box seats for
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: seven dollars and twenty cents. Apiece walked up to Wrigley
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Field with his pet goat, Murphy. Murphy had a little
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: blanket on because it was unseasonably chilly for early October.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: And there was a sign on Murphy that said we
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: got Detroit's goat. And he's like, this will be great.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go in here with my goat. I
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: love this goat and we're going to watch the ball game.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: And the kid at the gate said, sir, I don't
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: think you can have a goat in here. That's my
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: best Simpsons guy.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: That was pretty close to pretty good.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so they rejected him and he was not
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: allowed to come in.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: No, And so Sianis, I mean, he was fairly well known.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know if connected's the right word, but he
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: owned what was known as the Lincoln Tavern. I think
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: you said. He had since renamed it before this the
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Billy Goat Tavern, because Murphy as a kid had fallen
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: off some truck back in nineteen thirty four and wandered
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: into the Lincoln tavern and Sanis was like, you're now
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: the mascot. Apparently he even formally adopted Murphy through court,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and Murphy had great homes. So these guys have been
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: friends for over ten years by the time this incident happened.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: So Sianis is like, you know what, I got just
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: enough clout to get in touch with Philip K. Wriggly.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: I want him to say I can't come in before
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I'll accept it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: That's right. So he pleaded his case. He said, I
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: went to goat court for this guy, and it's all legal,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: and everyone loves Murphy. You should see people at the
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: tavern and Wriggly apparently supposedly said no, and then he
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: said let Billy in, but not the goat. Yuck, yuck, yuck.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: And when he was like, well, why not the goat,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I went to goat court and everything, Wriggly said because
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: the goat stinks, which he didn't need to say that,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: like goats have an odor and everybody knows that. You
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: don't have to point it out.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: So Ciennis was like, I'm not going to take this
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: sitting down. He stood up. He said, my pride has
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: been wounded. You have incited and insulted my goat friend of
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: more than a decade. So he cursed the Cubs right
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: then and there. He apparently exclaimed, the Cubs ain't gonna
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: win no more. The Cubs will never win a World
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Series so long as the goat is not allowed in
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Wrigley Field, and he stormed off with Murphy in tow.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: There's another version that says that they were allowed in,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: but they ended up getting kicked out because other fans
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: complained that Murphy was trying to eat their food, and
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: then the curse happened. Either way, they got cursed because
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Murphy was not allowed to sit and watch the game.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: All right, I think that's a great cliffhanger because we
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: got to see what happened to the Cubs and we'll
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: find that out right after this.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: And when you came along and it was like, yeah, well.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: We were work pals club flues. Great, that's exactly what happened.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: They lost that game. They lost the World Series to
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the Tigers and Sianas apparently sent a telegram that said,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: who stinks now, Yeah, and the Curse of the Billy
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Goat was born. And for the rest of the twentieth
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: century and well into the twenty first century, the Cubs were,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: you know, a five hundred ish team. They didn't do
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: so great. They had about fifteen winning seasons over that
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: span from forty six to two thousand and three, finished
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: first place three times, no pennants, no World Series appearances,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: and just for postseason appearance.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so just for people like me who don't
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: follow baseball, or at least don't follow baseball stats that
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: have a decimal involved, they had fifteen winning seasons over
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: fifty seven years, and that just means that in those
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: seasons they won more games than they lost, right, that's right.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: That is terrible, especially Chuck, when you consider up to
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: that curse, the Cubs were one of the best teams
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: in baseball and had been their entire existence. They'd won
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: the World Series the year before the curse too, So
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: this was like a real reversal of fortune for the Cubs,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: and it seems to have hinged on the Curse of
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: the Billy Goat.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Murphy that's right. So, you know, because baseball is fun
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: and people like doing kind of goofing around with kind
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: of lore like this, they tried over the years to
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: lift this curse. They're like, we'll do some fun stuff.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: So in nineteen seventy three, the new owner of the
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Billy Goat tavern, Samsianis, who was the nephew to William
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: brought the goat to Wrigley. He says, he's got to
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: lift this curse. The goat showed up, I think this
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: was a descendant of Murphy Socrates showed up in a
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: white limousine with a red carpet entrance, with a sign
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: that said all was forgiven. Let me lead the Cubs
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: to the pennant. But the grandson of the initial denier said,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I don't think you can bring that goat in here. Still,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: what I don't get is they really like set this
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: all up with the red carpet and still didn't let
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: him in. Like so the Cubs were not involved.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: No, they weren't involved. There was I think a Chicago
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Tribune columnist who is kind of helping with the whole thing. Okay,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: the Cubs were not I guess informed ahead of time,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: or like.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Surely they knws it was coming. There was a red
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: carpet out there.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they saw the red carpet and they were like, no,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: this isn't happening. So they actually turned a second goat away,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: a descendant of Murphy's. Like you said in nineteen seventy three,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: that's not what you do when you're trying to lift
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: a curse. And so this curse continued on for many,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: many more years. But over those same years, Chuck the
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Cubs changed hands several times. I think the Tribune owned
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: them for a while, and some of these later owners
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: they had a different feeling about letting a goat in
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: the park. They were a little more goat friendly.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, if you can have a bunch of
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: guys racing around the field and a foot race dressed
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: is hardware and tools, Yeah, or at least that's what
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: they have at the Brave Stadium.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Is it just the Braves, I've wondered, Well.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I mean it's a home depot thing, which is Atlanta,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: So I mean they do all kinds of funny races.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes like in some cities it's like a
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: sausage races, a broad worse races a hot dog. Yeah,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: it's it's a drill that races a hammer and then
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: like a wrinch or something. I don't know, but at
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: any rate, they're like, if we can do that kind
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: of silliness, we can let a goat in here to
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: lift this curse and at the very least it'll be
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: some fun press.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Right, So they did. There were actually a number of
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: times sam Sianis, who led in Socrates in nineteen seventy three,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: or tried to, they brought him back and with other
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: descendants of Murphy over the course of a few decades.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: He would walk the goat around the field and say like,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: we're lifting the curse. We're lifting the curse, right.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Remember they only had four postseason appearances nineteen eighty four,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: eighty ninety eight, and two thousand and three. That's right,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: All four of those postseason appearances came on years when
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: they brought in Murphy's descendants to try to lift the curse.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is what I want to know. Were those
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: the only four times they brought the descendant in.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Those Yes, as far as I understand, yes, those were
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: the only four times over that span of those years
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: when they brought him in as I'm.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Pretty sure I think that seals the deal. Then this
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: one is actually real.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, and Chuck, they finally removed the curses twenty sixteen,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Samseyanis did with help from the ghost of Murphy.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So in this case, Sam Siannis rang the Trocanie
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: bell that was worn by the original goat in the
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: nineteen forty five World Series and that year, as everyone knows,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, the Cubs won at all. They beat
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: the Cleveland Indians and it was kind of one of
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: the great World Series. It ended in very dramatic fashion.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it went into extra innings in Game seven.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: And I think that was the game that he rang
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: the bell, right.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I apparently he rang it while they were going
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: into extra innings in the club one.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: That's incredible.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as they say, Cubs win, Cubs win, Cubs win.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Man, that is a great Harry Carey.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Let's move on, Chuck, Let's head on over to Hong Kong.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: That's right. Jackie Chan one of my favorites. Although I
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: haven't seen a movie APIs in a while, we did
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: watch the and I had never seen them. I might
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: have talked about it on the show, but the one
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: with Owen Wilson, The Westerns. What were those? I knew
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Changhai Noon, Shanghai Noon and It's sequel, and I don't
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: know why I never saw those, and they were both
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: quite delightful, especially to watch with, you know, like a
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: nine or ten year old.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: How do you know they were delightful if you've not
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: seen him?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: No, I did see them.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Oh I see, okay.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I had not seen them up until like last year
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: when I finally saw them.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Gotcha. Yeah, he does make some pretty delightful movies. Rumbling
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: the Bronx was pretty good.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: I love that one.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Rush Hours were fairly fine.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I did not see those.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: They were watchable. Chris Tucker is pretty great. I like
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Chris Tucker at any rate. Jackie Chan is pretty big
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: in the West, but he is He can eclipse the
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: sun in China. He's been an enormous star since the
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: eighties when he started starring in movies. He started out
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: as a stuntman and he kind of came well, I
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: don't want to stay on the other side of the camera.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: But he actually started acting in front of a camera
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: that was rolling in filming essentially, but as himself, not
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: as some other actor, I guess is what I'm trying
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: to say. When he and then he became a star
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: very quickly. And this is a time well in the
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: entire world where the Internet wasn't around, but I think
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: China had access to it even later than other people,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: so the choice of stars to choose from was much
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: more limited, which let Jackie Chan just get bigger and
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: bigger and bigger over the year. So he's huge in China,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: he is.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And my friend, I think you missed your calling. You
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: could have been a director with your neck for the vernacular.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, maybe the snort chuck.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: All right, so Jackie Chan gets famous in the United States. Finally,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: that Rumble in the Bronx that you mentioned was his
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: I think his first big American film in nineteen ninety five.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to count the Canniball Run movies.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Was he in that?
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: In the original ones?
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I mean truly, they haven't been remade, right.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I think they have? Have they? Really? I think I'd
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: just say stuff though sometimes he.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Was in he was in Cannonball Run. Okay, like waite
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: a minute, now, I'm doubting myself. I'm pretty sure. Remember
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: there were the two you know, the two. I think
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: they were supposed to be Japanese in the movie that
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: didn't speak English, that were racing, and I think Jackie
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Chan was one of them. But now I'm doubting myself.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know, we'll look it up.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe I thought they only used Italian actors to play
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Japanese people.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Beat Well, yeah, that's true old Hollywood. But here's where
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Jackie Chan's curse comes in, because he has endorsed a
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: lot of brands over the years as a pitch person,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: and a lot of those brands have gone out of
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: business after he pitched them.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so much so that there's a what they call
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: a Jackie Chan curse where if you are going to
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: take advantage of his fame, basking in the glow of
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: his glory, and say, hold this product while I take
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: a photo of you, and then turn that photo into
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: billboards and maybe we'll have you move around with my
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: product and turn those into actual commercials too that will
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: put on television. You do so at your own risk,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot of companies that have taken a
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: nose dive after they hired him as their pitch man.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: That's right, by the way, confirmed that was Jackie Chan
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: and Cannonball Run Wowie. But I have a feeling he
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: didn't speak English at the time, and I don't think
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: the character spoke English, so it didn't matter.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he learned everything he knows about acting from Dom Delauise.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Maybe. So who I met when I was six years old?
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I met Don Delouise walking around Stowe Mountain
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Park one time, and I was delighted because I was
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: a big, big Cannonball Run fan. And he signed a envelope.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: My mom had a you know when you get autographs
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: in those days before the selfie, and my mom had
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: a bill like with the little cellophane window, and he
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: signed that envelope. So somewhere in my past had Tom
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Delawi's name scribbled on a bill to Georgia Bout.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So should we read through some of these that
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: went out of business?
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because some of them went out of business in
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: fairly dramatic fashion too.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to pick this one. Then the Seinear
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Frozen Dumpling Company went out of business after staff was
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: found in their dumplings.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's a company that made video compact discs, also
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: known as VCDs, they went bankrupt and the head of
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: the company went to jail for fraud after they hired him.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Wait, is a VCD something VCDs? So did that predate
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: the DBD?
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Yes? I believe it did.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Wow, I've never heard of this. That's and it wasn't
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: like obviously the big platter like laser disc or whatever.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: No, they were compact discs actually, and they were video
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: compact discs. I don't know what year this was, huh,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: but it does. Crazy. Yeah, I think it does predate
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: the DVDs, or else they would just call them DVDs.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess you're right. Here's what forya. Do you
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: know what DVD stands for?
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Direct to video direct?
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people. In fact, I heard
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: our pal Scott Ackerman on his movie show Scott Hasn't
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Seen the other day said digital video disc and I
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: was going to text him and shame him, but I didn't.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: But it's actual, actually digital versatile disc.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Oh that's yeah. You can call it a DVD or
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: a VCD, so it is quite versatile, all right.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: An air conditioning company that Jackie chan Endors had a
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: unit explode and sales dropped, and I don't know if
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: they went out of business, but that's not a good look.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Also, there is a herbal hair lost shampoo called bah Wang,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: and I don't think they went out of business, but
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: their sales obviously plummeted after it was misreported that it
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: contained a carcinogen.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: So oh.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: There are also other brands where like their product just
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: didn't get off the ground even though they had Jackie
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Chan as their pitchment. Volkswagen had a panel van called
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: the Caddy that they just stopped making because no one
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: was buying them. Fenn Wang Coola fizzled out. I see
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: in every single article on the Jackie Chan curse. There
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: was a children's computer called the sub or supe Boar
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: learning machine. All of these just failed failed, failed. So
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Jackie Chan is clearly cursed, right.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: That's right, clearly cursed. To be fair, Jackie Chan is
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: one of those guys in his home country where they
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: would just walk up to him and say, hey, we'll
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: give you ten grand if you'll stand here for twenty
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: five seconds and hold this thing. He was down with
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: endorsing a lot of products, so you probably got about
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: a fifty to fifty shot of a Jackie Chan product
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: being endorsed and not doing so well.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: So it's basically just the law of statistics that he's
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: willing to pitch so many things that, of course some
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: of them are going to be clunkers.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, unless you count tennis.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this Jackie Chan curse extended or just showed up
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: or kind of spread its girth across the twenty twenty
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: five Australian Open. Not one, not two, but three different
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: tennis players who made it to the final rounds Arena Sabalanca,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Alexander Zevrev and Jelena Ostapenko. They made it to the
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: final rounds and all three of them lost their matches.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: After they met Jackie Chan and shook his hand. Wow,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: that's really something. I wouldn't get too close to Jackie
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Chan if I had a business or was a professional athlete.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Owen Wilson did all right, did he?
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Though?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: I think, do you want to do this last one?
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Or should we call it a day?
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Sure we can, we can call it a day.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in true to our curse, we can
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: never get to a full list, and everyone's just gonna
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: have to wonder what this last curse was. I think
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: I had heard it called the zero factor at one point,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: So let's just tease that.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll call it that. Uh, you got anything else
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: about curses, Chuck?
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I got nothing else.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Well, we got a the Wayback Machine in the shop
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: because we don't normally use it this often, so it
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: needs a good tune up by think, Yeah.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: What's making a weird noise too, that plunky thing.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: In the smoke too. Yeah. Well, since we just talked
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: about the way Back Machine, that means it's time for
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: a listener mail.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: This is from Brett about our episode about Tippy Hedron
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: getting the Vietnamese nail salon started in the United States. Hey, guys,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: to just listen to that episode, and it reminded me
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: of a documentary called The Donut King about Ted And
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to pronounce this n g o
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: y He's Cambodian. I'm gonna say, you know what, I'm
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: not going to try, Okay, but I know that ng
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: e n is pronounced when.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's like n g y e n
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: or something like that. But yeah, so this would be uy.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Maybe we're butchering this. I'm sorry, everybody, We're trying anyway, guys.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I often wondered about why so many donut shops, especially
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: here in southern California, are operated by Asian families. The
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: documentary is about a Cambodian immigrant who opened a donut shop,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: then used it as a loophole to bring other Cambodian
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: citizens over during Polepot's reign and train them to have
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: their own donut shops, which he helped fund nat He
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: ended up helping dozens, maybe even hundreds of families immigrate,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: and he basically had a West Coast donut empire. He
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: wasn't without his flaws, though, you should Know, and the
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: documentary touches on that stuff, but totally worth watch. Maybe
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: a candidate for a short stuff Thanks for entertaining me
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: at work all day and keep up the nerdy work
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: That is from Brett with one.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: T nice Brett, thank you for that. Definitely hadn't heard
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: that story and it sounds quite worth looking into. Yeah,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: if you want to be like Brett and recommend a
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: great idea for short stuff or a regular episode, or
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: say you go watch this documentary, we always welcome that.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: You can send it off to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: dot com.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: more podcasts, My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.