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CLASH OF TITANS NANOS-PATEL COSTS NANCY GUTHRIE'S LIFE? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing Tonight, Clash of the Titans,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: a war between the gods. The FBI director Cash Betel
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: versus Pima Sheriff Nanos how badly has Nano's torpedo the
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: search for Nancy as we discover a vast area near
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Nancy's home unsearched. Why sources reporting investigators shifting the hunt
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: to a gray van? Why and will solar powered cams
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: reveal more video? Good evening, I Nancy Grace, this is
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Stalkers cannot help but write about the relationship with the
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: victim and the victims' families. This perpetrator had gleaned a
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: lot about Nancy Guthrie's life.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: The likely has a criminal history.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: I got frustrated because I knew from my sources they
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: were trying to keep you guys out.
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: They did, they did keep you out.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: And look, here's my matter is in an investigation, the
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: first forty.
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: Eight hours of anyone's disappearance are the most critical. And
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: here's how these cases works. It is a state matter.
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: It's a state and local law enforcement matter. What we
• 1:21
  Speaker 5: the FBI do is say hey, we're here to help.
• 1:23
  Speaker 6: What do you need? What can we do?
• 1:25
  Speaker 5: And for four days we were kept out of the investigation.
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: And when we were finally let in, Sean.
• 1:30
  Speaker 6: Look what we did.
• 1:31
  Speaker 5: We went in and got the ring doorbell and we said, hey,
• 1:35
  Speaker 5: is anyone talking to Google? I called the leadership at
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: Google and I said, look, we know that there was
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: not a subscription service to capture all of the data
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: that would have been captured had there been a subscription service,
• 1:47
  Speaker 5: but can we go into the cash? Can we go
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: into the data before it's deleted and see what we
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: can find. That's why you have that image because the
• 1:54
  Speaker 5: FBI worked with Google to put that image out.
• 1:57
  Speaker 6: Another thing we asked to.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Do you guys got that tape, which was the biggest
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: breakthrough during that case.
• 2:01
  Speaker 6: We could have gotten it days before.
• 2:04
  Speaker 7: Now.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: The People County Sheriff Today responded to Cash's comments on
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: our podcast, saying the Sheriff's department did immediately start coordinating
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: with the bureau, not buying it.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Nice tribe that from our friend Sean Hannity at Fox
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: News and on his podcast Hanging Out with Sean Hannity,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: where he has an incredible interview with Cash Patel, and
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I learned a lot straight out to Allison Weiner joining
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: US senior investigative reporter, author of a brand new book,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Murder in the Media. Hey, New York Control Room, let's
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: see that book, Murder in the Media. That's going to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: be a best seller. Alison, thank you for being with us.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I want to follow up on what Cash Patel thank
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: was saying. It's stunning. We also learn he has a
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: plane on standby. But let's take one thing at a time.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: What do you make of it.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not buying it either. We were there.
• 3:07
  Speaker 8: I was there with Brian Anton and we were in
• 3:10
  Speaker 8: Arizona for in Tucson for almost two months, and in
• 3:13
  Speaker 8: the early days of that investigation, there was no FBI.
• 3:18
  Speaker 8: He had that scene with just the sheriffs for four days.
• 3:21
  Speaker 8: It wasn't until the fifth day when the FBI came in. Furthermore,
• 3:26
  Speaker 8: in those first four days, in one of those days,
• 3:30
  Speaker 8: they thought it was just a walk away and that
• 3:32
  Speaker 8: she had just gone meandering, despite the family saying that
• 3:36
  Speaker 8: she didn't have cognitive issues and was not ambulatory. So
• 3:40
  Speaker 8: I have to say that all the crime scene collection
• 3:43
  Speaker 8: in those first four days, whatever they were doing before
• 3:45
  Speaker 8: they released the crime scene. They released the crime scene
• 3:48
  Speaker 8: before the FBI got in even we.
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: Have Quantico best live in the world. I had a
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: fixed wing aircraft on the ground ready to move it
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: immediately through the night.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: Did they just say no?
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: And they said we're sending it to Florida?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Amazing? Amazing. I don't know whether to cry, laugh or
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: go take all the air out of Nanos's tires. I'm
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: not sure which way I should go. That's from our
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: friend Sean Hannity and his new podcast, hang Out with
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Sean Hannity. Let me understand what I'm hearing, Allison Cash
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Battel had a fixed wing aircraft on standby, ready to
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: take DNA taken from Missus Guthrie's home to Quantico to
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: arguably the best lab in the world, and they were
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: turned down. Did I hear that correctly, Allison.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: I don't think they were even turned down.
• 4:45
  Speaker 8: I think they didn't tell them that they had taken
• 4:47
  Speaker 8: it to their own private lab until after the fact.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: And the private lab is in Florida. It's a good lab.
• 4:53
  Speaker 8: But the basic fact is is that the FBI lab
• 4:58
  Speaker 8: is free and one of the best in the world.
• 5:01
  Speaker 8: So I'm not quite sure about that, but actually, Nancy,
• 5:04
  Speaker 8: there's even more. We learned that HRT, the hostage Rescue
• 5:09
  Speaker 8: team from Quantico, had flown in and was waiting at
• 5:12
  Speaker 8: the Air Force and when they did that run to
• 5:15
  Speaker 8: Rio Rico, the SWAT team went to Rio Rico to
• 5:19
  Speaker 8: look into a suspect there or potential suspect. They did
• 5:23
  Speaker 8: not They got there and they went there the Sheriff's team,
• 5:26
  Speaker 8: SWAT team, local team without even racing there before the
• 5:30
  Speaker 8: HRT could get there, even though they were on standby
• 5:33
  Speaker 8: as well. Some of the best guys and ladies in
• 5:36
  Speaker 8: the business.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: You're not kidding, Allison wyn are joining us, Brandy, but
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: murder in the media. Okay, let's hear this one more time.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I want to hear specifically what Patel says.
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: We have Quantico best live in the world. I had
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: a fixed wing aircraft on the ground ready to move
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: it immediately through the night. Did they just say no,
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: and they said we're sending it to Florida.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: They just said we're sending it to Florida from our
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: friend Sean Hannon. Hang out with Sean Hannity joining me now.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a hit
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: podcast series Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. But for
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: our purposes, he is a death investigator that has been
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: to over ten thousand death scenes, and he's not just
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: a talking head that blathers on and on with no experience.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: In fact, I first met him in a heated argument
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: when he was with the Fulton County Medical Lexander's office,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: because I needed evidence then and it wasn't ready through
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: no fault of his, I might add, that's how I
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: met Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, did you hear what
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Patel said? And I agree with Hannity, I'm not buying it.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Every turn, at every turn, the FEDS are being thwarted,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: and what does that mean. I don't care about some
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: heurf battle. I care about finding Nancy Guthrie. And tonight
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: we're learning more and more about how Nanos. Let me
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: just say technical legal phrase, screwed the pooch left right,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: No matter what he was offered, he said, no, what
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: difference has it made that the Feds were not allowed
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: in and they did not take access of that fixed
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: wing aircraft to get the DNA sent immediately. That from
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: our friends at News twelve.
• 7:31
  Speaker 9: Let's preach a little bit, Nancy, Pride cometh before the fall.
• 7:36
  Speaker 9: And that's what this is all about. And it's so
• 7:39
  Speaker 9: critical in these moments when you can avail yourself of
• 7:43
  Speaker 9: the services of the FEDS. You know, their abilities to
• 7:49
  Speaker 9: what they can do are almost limitless. Think about how
• 7:53
  Speaker 9: much money we dump into an organization like the FBI,
• 7:58
  Speaker 9: and what Patel was saying relative to Quantico, it's what
• 8:02
  Speaker 9: everybody else, you know, shoots for in the area of
• 8:06
  Speaker 9: forensic science, relative to have those those assets at your disposal.
• 8:12
  Speaker 9: And for whatever reason, for whatever reason, they did not
• 8:16
  Speaker 9: want to avail themselves of these opportunities. And you know
• 8:20
  Speaker 9: the thing about it, Nancy, And you know a lot
• 8:21
  Speaker 9: about chain of evidence, right, the more hands evidence passes through, okay,
• 8:29
  Speaker 9: it becomes degraded, not just in the physical sense, you
• 8:32
  Speaker 9: know when you think about that the sample, for instance,
• 8:34
  Speaker 9: if you're talking about DNA, because it's very very fragile,
• 8:38
  Speaker 9: but also from the chain of custody or the chain
• 8:42
  Speaker 9: of evidence relative to how many hands is it passing
• 8:45
  Speaker 9: through before it's processed. Those little markers along the way
• 8:48
  Speaker 9: kind of dictate the validity of whatever you're in game.
• 8:52
  Speaker 9: Is my biggest question about this case relative to dna IS.
• 8:58
  Speaker 9: Was it ever compromised a lot the way you know
• 9:01
  Speaker 9: when you send it to Florida, right, and it's not
• 9:05
  Speaker 9: in the same chain that the FBI uses, and I
• 9:09
  Speaker 9: know that they avail themselves of other services like authoram,
• 9:15
  Speaker 9: you run the risk of really having a problem here.
• 9:18
  Speaker 9: So you know, looking back, and anybody can Monday morning
• 9:21
  Speaker 9: quarterback it. But this isn't Monday morning, Nancy. The game
• 9:26
  Speaker 9: is still on at this point in time. We have
• 9:29
  Speaker 9: not seen any evidence of missus Guthrie at this point.
• 9:33
  Speaker 9: And this is critical. This is not like this thing's
• 9:35
  Speaker 9: been adjudicated and we're sitting over coffee and we're talking
• 9:38
  Speaker 9: about it or whatever the case.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Just let me understand what you're saying. You're saying that
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the delay may have cost Let's just be blunt. The
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: delay may have cost Nancy Guthrie her life delay, delay, delay.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: How long was she alive? She could still be alive,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: and I pray, pray for a happy reunion for our
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: friend Savannah Guthrie. But delay, delayed, delay, that's what happened.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: And it could have cost her her life.
• 10:10
  Speaker 9: Yeah, you're absolutely right, because they didn't hop on this.
• 10:13
  Speaker 9: The other thing that they didn't hop on it. To
• 10:15
  Speaker 9: Allison's point earlier about the security of the scene, if
• 10:19
  Speaker 9: they had secured this thing from Jump Street, Nancy, Okay, no,
• 10:24
  Speaker 9: no piece of deliveries, no pool boys, all that nonsense.
• 10:30
  Speaker 9: If they had secured it, they would have gotten to
• 10:32
  Speaker 9: this cloud earlier that contains this information and it could
• 10:36
  Speaker 9: have gotten into the hands of people. And again, I
• 10:39
  Speaker 9: don't want to beat this drum over and over again,
• 10:42
  Speaker 9: but when we see those tiles there, they could have
• 10:45
  Speaker 9: done electrostatic lifts unless that we actually see where this
• 10:48
  Speaker 9: guy is putting his feet in this image right here.
• 10:50
  Speaker 9: If they had frozen that scene, you could have done
• 10:53
  Speaker 9: shoe lifts off of that. That's gone. That's gone like
• 10:56
  Speaker 9: a vapor.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Usually Alison Weiner, joining US investigative senior reporter News Nation,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: author of new book Murder in the Media. Allison normally,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: when prosecuting a case, putting together a case, discussing a case,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: analyzing a case, I rarely go in to could a
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: should have would, because frankly, it's a waste of time.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: You need to keep moving forward. Because every minute you delay,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: you're losing the possibility of preserving evidence, or finding a witness,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: or finding Nancy Guthrie. But I think it's worth noting
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: how badly this torpedo the case in a nutshell. Everything
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan said was true, but simply put the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: delay in the DNA. I mean, look, we still don't
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: even have it. We still don't have it because of
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the delay caused by nanos. Who knows what a positive
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: match could have meant in saving the life of Nancy
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Guthrie or finding her Allison.
• 12:04
  Speaker 8: It's really you know, at first, we tried not to
• 12:07
  Speaker 8: focus on the sheriff because we really wanted to focus
• 12:09
  Speaker 8: on Nancy Guthrie.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: But he was just too.
• 12:13
  Speaker 8: Reckless of a presence to ignore because he was providing
• 12:17
  Speaker 8: even the media with conflicting information about timelines about you know,
• 12:21
  Speaker 8: oh yeah, my bad, I opened up the scene too soon.
• 12:25
  Speaker 8: I wouldn't do that again. He there was an opportunity
• 12:29
  Speaker 8: for BI to come right in there and do evidence collection,
• 12:32
  Speaker 8: which is also you know, what they know how to do. Instead,
• 12:36
  Speaker 8: he had inexperienced homicide investigators there, including the sergeant who
• 12:40
  Speaker 8: reportedly we've reported did not have from an insider inside
• 12:44
  Speaker 8: of the investigation, did not have any experience investigating a homicide.
• 12:50
  Speaker 8: So we have these guys in the Sheriff's office giving
• 12:55
  Speaker 8: conflicting information to the public.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: They don't know for weeks that they should be.
• 12:59
  Speaker 8: Looking at all January preserve information on their ring camps
• 13:03
  Speaker 8: because that wasn't also given.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: Out as information to the public.
• 13:08
  Speaker 8: So I think, I don't know what should have could
• 13:11
  Speaker 8: have happened, But I do know that the sheriff has
• 13:14
  Speaker 8: a longstanding animosity towards the FBI, and that became apparent
• 13:18
  Speaker 8: in terms of access what he told and what he
• 13:21
  Speaker 8: didn't tell. And I think to the detriment of the
• 13:24
  Speaker 8: Guthrie family and finding Nancy Guthrie.
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: I launched hundreds of agents and intel staff to Phoenix
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: and Tucson just for this case, just to be on stand.
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: They didn't want just to do the canvassing, and we
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: said we'll take the DNA.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox. That Sean Hannity's new podcast,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: hang Out with Sean Hannity. Another thing to Brian Fitzgibbons guys.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Fitzgibbons is director of Operations USPA Nationwide Security. He leads
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: a team of expert investigators around the world. He leads
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: them finding and extracting missing people. Specifically, I'd like to
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: point out often from Mexico, which may come into play here.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: He is a former marine and an Iraqi war vette,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and I think that says it all. Brian Is Gibbons,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us tonight. Did you just
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: hear Patel state I and I'm reading it verbatim. I
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: launched hundreds of agents and intel staffed to Phoenix and
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Tucson just for this case. And it's just to do
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the canvassing. And we said, look, we'll take the DNA,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: we'll start canvassing. Brian, A delay is a defendant's best friend.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: The canvassing needed to happen then, immediately, and not just
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: the two next door neighbors, all around the neighborhood getting
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: video that maybe has now been overridden questioning people about
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the night before, like can you tell me what noises
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: you heard a week ago in the middle of the night,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: because I can't if you asked me about last night, yes,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I can tell you the the dog started barking at
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: precisely four am. But if you ask me a week
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: from now, I'm not going to know that anymore, All
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: those agents on standby to find a missing person gone,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: all that evidence gone, Brian, and.
• 15:18
  Speaker 10: These issues Nancy with the DNA or the tip of
• 15:21
  Speaker 10: the iceberg, Because here's the deal. This is where my
• 15:24
  Speaker 10: mind went almost immediately if that was the level of
• 15:28
  Speaker 10: collaboration or the lack thereof how much work was duplicated
• 15:33
  Speaker 10: when the FBI did actually enter the scene five days later, right,
• 15:38
  Speaker 10: And what I mean by that is how much of
• 15:40
  Speaker 10: this canvassing had already been done by Pema County. How
• 15:43
  Speaker 10: much information was being shared between the agents from PMA
• 15:47
  Speaker 10: County on the ground doing the investigation with the federal
• 15:50
  Speaker 10: law enforcement agents, how much was done twice? How much
• 15:54
  Speaker 10: time was wasted in those early days. And you're talking
• 15:57
  Speaker 10: days five through ten, right when the FBI first entered
• 16:01
  Speaker 10: the scene. So you know, this statement from Patel is
• 16:06
  Speaker 10: very concerning.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: And you know, so far Paatel has kept quiet until
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Handy got him to speak out and tell what he knows.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: But you know, I want you to hear this because
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the faster you can get on the ground and start looking,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: the more likely you're going to solve the case. And
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: at first, at the very beginning, this was treated as
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: if Nancy Guthry had just wandered off and must have
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: fallen in a ditch. What a load of hot, stinking,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: steaming bs. Now listen to this, Misgibbons.
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: It is a state matter. It's a state and local
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: law enforcement matter. What we the FBI do is say, hey,
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: we're here to help.
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: What do you need? What can we do? And for
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: four days we were kept out of the investigation.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Four days, four days from our friend Sean Hannity at
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: hang Out with Sean Handy his podcast four days. Brian,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: you can't get that, as I always say, like when
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: you got a missing child, every hour sixty mph at best,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: they're getting further and further and further away. In this case,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: same thing, Nancy Cutry getting further and further and further away,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: while Nanos has his thumb up, as you know what.
• 17:17
  Speaker 10: For p Ma County to not have the agility to
• 17:22
  Speaker 10: plan for bringing in these federal resources quickly on a
• 17:26
  Speaker 10: high profile case like this, it just speaks to the
• 17:29
  Speaker 10: political nature of the decision that Nanos made, that this
• 17:32
  Speaker 10: is a long standing beef with the FBI and that
• 17:36
  Speaker 10: he you know, Joe Scott Morgan said it best pride
• 17:39
  Speaker 10: cometh before the fall, and this is a decision born
• 17:42
  Speaker 10: out of pride that he wanted to be the one
• 17:45
  Speaker 10: to solve this case.
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: The FBI worked with Google to put that image out.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: Another thing we asked to do.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Guys, got that tape, which was the biggest breakthrough during
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: that case.
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: We could have gotten a days before. We could have
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: also maybe gotten more data.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Again from hanging out with Sean Hannity the Google tape. Oh,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Can I tell you how
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: valuable that video is. Let's see the porch, guys, if
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: we haven't seen it before, and not just the day
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: of that's let's say, yes, he's got the gun on
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: right there. That is the night Nancy was stolen in
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: the middle of the night. What if you woke up
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to see that in your face? I mean, and then
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: you know they hit her. You know, that's why she's
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: bleeding on the front porch. Was she screaming? Was she
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: crying out? And they hit her? I think they hit
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: her in the face. This eighty four year old woman.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you met my mom. If someone hit her
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: in the face, it might just kill her. For Pete's sake,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: But all those days, and not only did he managed
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: to get Google to dig that up like Lazarus rising
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: from the grave, but then the other video that you
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: and I went round and around and around chasing our tails,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: why doesn't he have a gun on in this video?
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I got into it with Dave Mack, our investigator from
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories who's joining us tonight, who dared to suggest
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: to me that the other ports video, which we now
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: know is from an earlier date, was the perhaps twin
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the same night, and that they were dressed to like uh.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: That said, that's the biggest break so far. Hennity's right,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and they sat on it. If it hadn't been for Bettel,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: we wouldn't even have that.
• 19:40
  Speaker 9: Imagine all of the homicides that you have not just
• 19:45
  Speaker 9: covered on the air, but the ones that you prosecuted. Nancy,
• 19:49
  Speaker 9: think about that just for a second. How much would
• 19:52
  Speaker 9: you have loved to have had an image, a moving
• 19:56
  Speaker 9: image of a perpetrator like this kind of froze and
• 20:00
  Speaker 9: in time that moment captured. How many cases have there
• 20:04
  Speaker 9: been over the years where we had nothing, buckus, there
• 20:08
  Speaker 9: was nothing out there to literally hang our hat on.
• 20:11
  Speaker 9: Here you have an individual approaching, and there's so many
• 20:15
  Speaker 9: There are so many things about this image, everything from
• 20:19
  Speaker 9: gate to clothing that have forensic value. Timing all of
• 20:24
  Speaker 9: these issues, and not to mention the presentation of this weapon, which,
• 20:29
  Speaker 9: by the way we've talked about this is in no
• 20:32
  Speaker 9: way common somebody would wear, presenting in this format a
• 20:38
  Speaker 9: weapon like this. What's the purpose of it? Was it
• 20:41
  Speaker 9: for intimidation? Was it for what they perceived as easy access?
• 20:45
  Speaker 9: I have no idea. Was perhaps she struck with that weapon?
• 20:49
  Speaker 9: Was she what's called buffaloing, you know, where you strike
• 20:52
  Speaker 9: somebody in the face with a weapon like that. I
• 20:55
  Speaker 9: don't know. I know that looking at the blood that
• 20:59
  Speaker 9: was out there there, I see expert there, not aspir it,
• 21:02
  Speaker 9: it's expert. Where you have blood that is being coming
• 21:06
  Speaker 9: out of the nasopharynx area where somebody's blowing out coming
• 21:10
  Speaker 9: from their nose the mouth, and then you have those free,
• 21:13
  Speaker 9: frawling drops right there. Do you realize I'm not saying
• 21:16
  Speaker 9: this necessarily to you, but do people realize how fragile
• 21:19
  Speaker 9: that evidence is? The mat that was not collected? You know,
• 21:22
  Speaker 9: for all of that blood that you see right there
• 21:25
  Speaker 9: that's deposited on those tiles, do you realize how much
• 21:28
  Speaker 9: evidence would have been on that black mat itself. I
• 21:33
  Speaker 9: don't know. We'll never know, right because it's been compromised
• 21:36
  Speaker 9: at this point in time. And that's the that's one
• 21:39
  Speaker 9: of the real tragedies about this.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: It's past the porch and actually goes down the front walk.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: This is for my friends at Fox News Digital. We
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: know that Nancy Guthrie was struck in the face based
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: on this evidence and what the blood evidence reveals. Its
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: aspirit aspirct is when you aspirate, you breathe out blood. Also,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: it appears to be in a satellite positioning. You get
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: a close up on that, please and what that means
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: is she's standing still long enough to have one blood
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: drop and then blood drops around that without her see
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: those at the front, right and behind it. She's likely
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: standing there and dripping blood down. That's a satellite what
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: we call a satellite pattern. All this said, the delay
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: may have cost Nancy Guthrie her life. Back to Alison
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Weiner joining a senior investigator, reporter, author of a new book,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Murder in the Media, it seems as if focus is
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: shifting to the hunt of a gray van. Do you know, Allison.
• 23:02
  Speaker 8: Well I've heard that, but they haven't seemed to be
• 23:07
  Speaker 8: able to pick up that van past that little bit
• 23:10
  Speaker 8: of video that we had. I will tell you in
• 23:13
  Speaker 8: terms of searching that area, that the only search we
• 23:19
  Speaker 8: saw that area was in the couple of days following
• 23:21
  Speaker 8: Nancy's abduction, and it was some helicopters, but it was
• 23:24
  Speaker 8: basically around the home and just in a very small area.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of ways.
• 23:31
  Speaker 8: In and out of the Catalina Foothills, and that search
• 23:34
  Speaker 8: didn't encompass that. It didn't also encompass the nearby desert,
• 23:39
  Speaker 8: which has a road straight to Mexico. I actually went
• 23:42
  Speaker 8: out there with a former SWAT official, and I have
• 23:47
  Speaker 8: to say that they didn't really get a chance to
• 23:53
  Speaker 8: look at that freshly in the first couple of days either.
• 23:57
  Speaker 8: And finally, going back to the point of how many
• 24:00
  Speaker 8: agents the FBI had provided, there were about six hundred
• 24:06
  Speaker 8: I think of PMA County officers available in hundreds and
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: thousands of FBI agents that were sent and they were
• 24:14
  Speaker 8: not used. It's crazy.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: In early February, neighbors reported a suspicious van in the
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: area just before Nancy Guthrie went missing. A separate, distinct
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: gray silver range rover was then towed after a traffic
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: stop indicating a distinct interest in a gray van or suv.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: There was an investigation focused by p mccounty on analyzing
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: footage and neighbors were actually asked about the existence of
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: a gray van. Now this video is from our friend
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Crystal's crime Board. Karen's joining US forensic psychologist, renowned TV
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: and radio trauma expert and consultant at Karenstark dot com. Karen,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: there's more to come, but I wanted you to hear
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: some of the evidence that has been delayed or even
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: lost because of Nanos's refusal to let the FEDS step in.
• 25:23
  Speaker 11: It's somebody who believes that he can do this himself,
• 25:27
  Speaker 11: no matter what's available to him. Took a chance. He
• 25:30
  Speaker 11: actually took a chance with somebody's life because he had
• 25:34
  Speaker 11: approved this point that he could do it, because he
• 25:37
  Speaker 11: was upset with the FBI, and it's playing out in
• 25:42
  Speaker 11: front of everybody. How ridiculous and mean and scary it
• 25:47
  Speaker 11: is that he did not take action and get all
• 25:50
  Speaker 11: the help available to him so that this woman could
• 25:54
  Speaker 11: possibly be found as quickly as possible. They always talk
• 25:58
  Speaker 11: about the first forty eight hours where was he How
• 26:02
  Speaker 11: could he not pay attention to that because of his
• 26:05
  Speaker 11: own self interest? And that's exactly what happened.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Dave matt and joining US Crime Stories
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter, Dave, what can you tell me about a
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: huge swath of land near Nancy Guthrie's home that has
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: not been searched.
• 26:22
  Speaker 12: This is an area that we're talking a mile to
• 26:25
  Speaker 12: a mile and a half away from Nancy Guthrie's home.
• 26:29
  Speaker 12: It is an area that is fenced off because it
• 26:33
  Speaker 12: is a water processing facility. Okay, it's called the Tucson
• 26:39
  Speaker 12: Water Municipal Property.
• 26:41
  Speaker 7: Totally gated.
• 26:42
  Speaker 12: You can't go in, Civilians enter, it's a felony.
• 26:46
  Speaker 9: But Nancy.
• 26:47
  Speaker 12: Six days after Nancy Guthrie was kidnapped, on February seventh,
• 26:53
  Speaker 12: NASA's firmed satellite, this FRMS. It is a free inftion
• 27:01
  Speaker 12: for Resource Management System.
• 27:03
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 27:03
  Speaker 12: This is some satellite that actually maps platforms, providing real
• 27:10
  Speaker 12: time imagery of heat signatures hot spot data, in particular
• 27:15
  Speaker 12: in areas like the Tucson Water Municipal property. At ten
• 27:20
  Speaker 12: fifty seven ten fifty eight am on February seventh, NASA's
• 27:25
  Speaker 12: firm satellite picked up a clear, high confidence daytime heat
• 27:30
  Speaker 12: signature at a very precise coordinate on the Tucson Water
• 27:35
  Speaker 12: Municipal property, again a mile from Nancy's home. The area
• 27:39
  Speaker 12: is gated and locked. But Nancy, the area where this
• 27:42
  Speaker 12: heat signature came from is at the top of a
• 27:45
  Speaker 12: hill leading down to an arroyo that has shrub brush,
• 27:51
  Speaker 12: small trees and things like that. But the heat signature
• 27:54
  Speaker 12: was there, not near the municipal pipe pipes for water
• 27:59
  Speaker 12: and everything else. I'm talking in a land area that
• 28:02
  Speaker 12: is going uphill, dirt, trees, things like that, or shrugs.
• 28:07
  Speaker 12: Rather so this heat signature Nancy on February seventh was
• 28:10
  Speaker 12: out of the ordinary, not something that normally happens, and
• 28:15
  Speaker 12: it hasn't been searched. This is a mile from Nancy
• 28:18
  Speaker 12: Guthrie's home. A heat signature at ten point fifty seven
• 28:21
  Speaker 12: in the morning, and nobody searched to find out what
• 28:26
  Speaker 12: it was.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan, joining US Professor forensics
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: and death investigator, explain the impact of what Dave Mack
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: has just reported.
• 28:38
  Speaker 9: Imagine grains of sand, you know, that are falling with
• 28:41
  Speaker 9: every moment You're losing valuable Tom here guess what. That
• 28:47
  Speaker 9: heat signature doesn't exist anymore. It's gone at this moment, Tom,
• 28:53
  Speaker 9: and any trail that might lead to some kind of
• 28:56
  Speaker 9: information that would be critical relative to the status of
• 29:01
  Speaker 9: Missus Guthrie, that trail has gone cold at this point
• 29:04
  Speaker 9: in time. So that leaves us wondering what in the world,
• 29:07
  Speaker 9: what in the world would we do? Uh, you know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 9: as far as seeking her out now, because that that
• 29:14
  Speaker 9: is precious time and this this case, Nancy all hinges
• 29:18
  Speaker 9: on Tom, doesn't it response? Tom's uh, you know, it
• 29:22
  Speaker 9: seems like that the people involved in this from Jump
• 29:26
  Speaker 9: Street have a bit of disorganization and let's face it, lethargy. Uh,
• 29:31
  Speaker 9: they didn't prioritize this case the way that they should have.
• 29:35
  Speaker 9: And for me, you know, when I'm analyzing this, they're
• 29:39
  Speaker 9: not They have not prioritized Missus Guthries uh missing status.
• 29:45
  Speaker 9: Really wonder how this plays into other cases, uh, with
• 29:49
  Speaker 9: not so elevated persons. Let's say, for instance, in this jurisdiction,
• 29:54
  Speaker 9: you know who who who else? You know who else
• 29:57
  Speaker 9: is out there that's suffering. There have missed family members
• 30:01
  Speaker 9: or crimes that have gone unsolved. And you look back
• 30:04
  Speaker 9: at this right here, and this is a glaring example
• 30:07
  Speaker 9: of problems. I'm just hoping that they're going to be
• 30:10
  Speaker 9: able to address these problems. I'm not really really hopeful.
• 30:15
  Speaker 9: I got to tell you, Nancy about miss Guthrie's status
• 30:19
  Speaker 9: right now, and that lies that lies at the feet
• 30:22
  Speaker 9: of those that are in charge of an investigation.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Nancy, that from our friends at News twelve Dave Matt
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: explain to me where exactly that heat signature was.
• 30:35
  Speaker 12: It was in the in the Tucson Municipal water cordoned
• 30:39
  Speaker 12: off area about a mile mile and a half from
• 30:42
  Speaker 12: Nancy Guthrie's home. I mentioned, Nancy that this is a
• 30:45
  Speaker 12: very large area, a huge as you've called it, a
• 30:49
  Speaker 12: huge swath of land that is cordoned off. It is gated,
• 30:53
  Speaker 12: it's locked. Barbari are at the top and those civilians
• 30:56
  Speaker 12: are allowed in. But this is only a mile mile
• 30:59
  Speaker 12: and a half from Nancy Guthries' home, six days after
• 31:04
  Speaker 12: she has stolen in the middle of the night, a
• 31:06
  Speaker 12: heat signature exact position.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious, you know, Joe Scott Morgan, you
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: mentioned that that evidence is now gone to Brian Fitzgibbons
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: joining US Director Operations USPA nationwide security. How valuable would
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: that be in a search for a missing person. You've
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: got this giant swath of land very close to Nancy
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Guthrie's home and out of the blue and elevated heat
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: signature indicating a living creature, not a dead creature, a
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: living creature, and it wasn't pursued, now is it? Because
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: the land was surrounded by barbed wire? You know what?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Where I grew up, a lot of pastures full of
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: cows were surrounded by barbed wire. We just went over
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: them or under them. It's not hard. So a bar
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: boar is stopping PEMA sheriffs from searching, and you've got
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: this elevated heat signature popping up in the middle of it,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: and nothing's done. Yeah.
• 32:15
  Speaker 10: I have to think that what you're seeing here is
• 32:18
  Speaker 10: issues with triaging these data points. You know, in that
• 32:22
  Speaker 10: close proximity to missus Guthrie's home. You would think that
• 32:26
  Speaker 10: this would be followed up very quickly. And I'll add
• 32:28
  Speaker 10: one thing here. Private investigator Steve Fisher, who's been a
• 32:33
  Speaker 10: many times a guest of this show, did a great
• 32:36
  Speaker 10: job explaining a few months ago drone technology that's available
• 32:41
  Speaker 10: that can quickly grid search these expansive areas and stitched
• 32:47
  Speaker 10: together effectively a it looks almost like a satellite map,
• 32:52
  Speaker 10: but it's taken by drone something like that, bringing tying
• 32:56
  Speaker 10: in an external resource that quickly. You know, there were
• 33:00
  Speaker 10: failures all along the way to bring in outside help
• 33:04
  Speaker 10: to do things like that. So it was just a
• 33:07
  Speaker 10: you know, I don't think it was the bob wire
• 33:08
  Speaker 10: that kept them out. I think it was an inability
• 33:11
  Speaker 10: to effectively work with anybody outside of.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: PMA County Ry As Gibbons, You're absolutely right. Take a
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: listen to Steve Fisher.
• 33:20
  Speaker 13: So we can do with these specialized drones, and these
• 33:24
  Speaker 13: are enterprise drones. These are not regular consumer drones. As
• 33:27
  Speaker 13: we can we can program them to search or to
• 33:34
  Speaker 13: fly certain search grids and whatnot. And so we do
• 33:38
  Speaker 13: is that the drone flies these lines that we define
• 33:43
  Speaker 13: and then when it's complete, we have a photography, We
• 33:48
  Speaker 13: have imagery of this whole area, and then we can
• 33:52
  Speaker 13: do is we can actually build a map out of
• 33:55
  Speaker 13: that it stitched those together and then actually search the map.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Dave matt Stories, investigative reporter. What can you tell me
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: about solar powered cameras and what if anything they may Yield.
• 34:09
  Speaker 12: Nancy, the one thing we know about these solar powered
• 34:13
  Speaker 12: cameras and devices is that we watched as the law
• 34:18
  Speaker 12: enforcement removed one of these solar powered devices and wired
• 34:23
  Speaker 12: camera from the roof, if you remember, it was around
• 34:26
  Speaker 12: February the sixth, then to the investigation seven days in,
• 34:30
  Speaker 12: and we know that these solar powered cameras and other electronics,
• 34:37
  Speaker 12: you know, they're they're not attached to the grid, So
• 34:40
  Speaker 12: whatever is being run and recorded by these cameras would
• 34:45
  Speaker 12: be saved. It's not part of any kind of grid.
• 34:49
  Speaker 12: So it doesn't matter if you cut all the wires
• 34:50
  Speaker 12: in town. These things are independently powered.
• 34:57
  Speaker 7: Nancy White, female of age fiveteen million, Billain private crew
• 35:04
  Speaker 7: things after twenty hundred hours because of yesterday, than I
• 35:10
  Speaker 7: worsher pacemaker and cardiac issues.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Alison Winner joining US senior investigative reporter and author of
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: a new book, Murder in the Media. Allison, is it
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: true that even though the family Nancy Guthrie said, this
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: isn't right, the camera's dislodged, there's blood on the front porch.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: She didn't just wander away at the get go. Nanas
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: insisted on treating this as a case where an elderly
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: individual simply wandered off.
• 35:41
  Speaker 8: Yes, and I think that's what they were used to
• 35:43
  Speaker 8: dealing with there. He actually had a press conference where
• 35:46
  Speaker 8: that's exactly what he said, that this is.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: You know, she had wandered off. We're looking for her.
• 35:51
  Speaker 8: And there were at that time, the family was inside
• 35:55
  Speaker 8: the house. There were other officers inside the house, and
• 35:58
  Speaker 8: they all went searching around to see if they could
• 36:01
  Speaker 8: find Nancy. So again, you have like evidence disruption. You
• 36:06
  Speaker 8: have them looking and wasting I mean not wasting, but
• 36:09
  Speaker 8: not spending the time and not seemingly.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: Being able to put together the fact that.
• 36:15
  Speaker 8: There's blood on the porch and a trail of blood
• 36:18
  Speaker 8: on the porch, so maybe she didn't just walk away.
• 36:22
  Speaker 8: And also the fact that the family said she was
• 36:25
  Speaker 8: not ambulatory, and we heard Savannah say that in a
• 36:27
  Speaker 8: press conference that she barely could make it to the
• 36:30
  Speaker 8: mailbox most days.
• 36:33
  Speaker 14: And my sister called me and I said, is everything okay?
• 36:38
  Speaker 14: And she said no, she said Mom's missing. And I said,
• 36:43
  Speaker 14: what what are you talking about. She said, she's gone.
• 36:48
  Speaker 14: She must have had like some kind of medical episode
• 36:53
  Speaker 14: in the night, and that somehow, you know, the paramedics
• 36:56
  Speaker 14: had come I started calling the hospitals, and the police
• 37:00
  Speaker 14: were there and talking to her at the same time,
• 37:02
  Speaker 14: and it was just chaos. She was in tremendous pain.
• 37:08
  Speaker 14: Her back was very bad, you know, she was trying
• 37:12
  Speaker 14: to On a good day she could walk down to
• 37:15
  Speaker 14: the mailbox and get the mail, but most days not.
• 37:18
  Speaker 14: So there was no wander off, and the doors were
• 37:22
  Speaker 14: popedomin and there was split on the front doors, and
• 37:28
  Speaker 14: the ring camera had been yanked off, and so we
• 37:32
  Speaker 14: were saying, this is do something, this is not okay,
• 37:37
  Speaker 14: this isn't something is very wrong here.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: That from our friends at YouTube today. That is Savannah
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: describing what happened immediately when she realized her mom was missing,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: and that authorities were told she did not wander off,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: look at the front porch, look at the door cam.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Yet it was pursued for who knows how long as
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: a wander off by an elderly The question tonight is
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: how badly has the state's investigation been torpedoed by the
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: unfortunate misjudgments and delays at the very beginning of the case.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Can it be fixed? Did it cost Nancy Guthrie her life?
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Is there a way for her to be brought home alive.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Missus
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free eight hundred two two
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: five five three two four repeat eight hundred two two
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: five five three two four If you wish to remain
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: anonymous five to two zero eight eight two seven four
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: sixty three five two zero eight eight to seven four
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: six three. There is a one point two plus million
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: dollar reward on the table for information leading to the
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie one point two million dollars. And
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: remember a conviction, even an arrest, is not required for
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: you to collect the reward. One point two million dollars
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: in reward, we remember an American hero Trooper, Andrew Wall,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Tennessee Highway Patrol, killed in the line of duty after
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: fourteen years, leaving behind devastated parents Tom and Wendy, and
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: grieving girlfriend Cindy. American hero Trooper Andrew Wall. Thank you
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: to our guests for joining us tonight, but especially to
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: you for being with us and keeping the search for
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie alive. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: friend
• 40:11
  Speaker 10: MM hmm.