Latest / the Dr Gilbz pod / Ep. 1 | Are you scared about climate chaos too? | Climate Adam
Transcript
- speaker-0: What can I actually do about climate change? It's a question we've all surely asked ourselves, and as a climate scientist, it's a question that I get all the time. So in this conversation and the first episode in my new video podcast series, myself and Dr. Adam Levy discussed something that, in our view, is one of the most important solutions to climate chaos. You probably already know Adam as Climate Adam on YouTube, and if you don't, then you absolutely should. Adam's a great science communicator, and just like me, is a former academic, and as we're good pals anyway, it seemed only polite to launch the series this way. We recorded this when Adam was last in London, and eagle-eyed viewers on YouTube may even notice that that was a little while ago before I had switched up my microphone setup, and before I had. The stitches out on my collarbone surgery. Luckily for me, and perhaps sadly for all of us, this conversation is possibly even more relevant just a few months later, with the ever-rising tide of willful confusion, delay, and outright denial on platforms like YouTube, social media, and even in the mainstream media. If you're looking for an easy and effective way to tackle the climate crisis, then listen on and please enjoy this chat with the fabulous Climate Adam. I don't know if you've noticed, but the world is pretty hectic and chaotic and there is like so much going on in the news that it's actually kind of impossible to stay abreast of it. Once upon a time, Adam came to my house to record. So it's really nice to have news. speaker-1: It's the first time ever we've recorded in your your abode. speaker-0: So today we are here to talk about why we should talk about climate. Obviously, we've done a few videos together, and you're an excellent climate communicator, you've been doing it for ages, you're also a climate scientist, as am I. So I thought you'd be a perfect person to talk about why we should qu talk about climate change with. So, how many things can we talk about in one sentence? Talk about talking about climate change. speaker-1: Yes. Well, I think ⁓ often people ask me and probably you as well what they can do about climate change and are expecting things like drive less, fly less, eat vegan, all I all of which are really important. I say it with that like monotone, but that they are really important, especially for those of us who are richer or happen to be in richer countries. But that's just one side of things. And what people very often overlook is that talking about climate change is free. And it's really bloody important. speaker-0: Yeah, and it's something that you can do pretty much instantaneously as well. And it's something that you can do in a variety of contexts. It could be with your neighbors, it could be with your friends, your family, your colleagues, someone in the pub, or insert your ⁓ non-English reference point ⁓ example here. I mean, I know you've spoken with Catherine Hayho a little bit, and that's one of the things that she really emphasizes is the importance of talking about climate. Any words of wisdom to say about the the value of doing this communication work and examples of how it's brought you value or others around you? speaker-1: Well, Catherine Hae-Hoe is great, firstly at talking about climate change, but also at helping us think about how to do that well and how to meet people where they are crucially. So she is Christian and faith is really important in her life. She talks about that very openly when she's talking about science and really goes out there and talks to other people of faith and connects with them on that issue of faith, which me as A Jewish atheist, I don't think me going into like Christian communities and like trying to connect with people on faith would make sense or be be authentic. But that I guess is why it's really important that you also talk about climate change, because we're not going to be able to connect with the people around you, as well as you personally are going to be able to do that. You know what they care about, what their hopes are, what their dreams are, what their fears are. And studies back this up as well. Studies show that in intimate settings, For example, kids with their parents or hairdressers with their clients. These are the kinds of contexts where people can really get through to people, which is a bit frustrating for me and Ella, because we'd love to get through to every single person in the world and like be the best communicators in the world. But often we can't be. You can be the best communicators in your social settings. speaker-0: Yeah, and I think it's important to like this point you were saying, it's really important to be able to understand where people are coming from and understand people's values and the reasons they think things that they think. And especially as scientists, I think we fall into a trap of thinking, ⁓ more facts are going to help this situation. speaker-1: Yeah, it's never gonna throw factor people and hope that that's suddenly gonna change their mind or make them care about something. Doesn't work. speaker-0: Yeah, realistic is it's never gonna work. And actually to understand, ⁓ this person is really into golf, then let me talk to them about golf and how climate change is going to impact golf. Or like for me, like I've given talks in boxing gyms, and this is a I actually quite like this example because it's not the kind of place where traditionally conversations about climate change are taking place and it's a different world, and it's a l especially in London, it's a real melting pot of different characters. So it's a really interesting place to like have conversations about this stuff. And as a communicator, it's helped me learn a huge amount about how to get through to people using different examples and different things they care about. I care a lot about boxing. They care a lot about boxing. It's a really obvious choice to try and like get through to someone. And there's always gonna be examples in your own life that you can use. speaker-1: like that. I think to really tap into these examples though, it has to not just be you giving a lecture to people. Like if you sit down with someone and just start telling them why they ought to care about climate change, why climate change is really connected to even if you're connecting it to something they care about, if you're just lecturing them, I don't know. People don't like being lectured, it turns out, even in a university context where I had to go to lectures. I didn't enjoy. I much preferred when I was like actually talking about the things which were going on. And so a huge part of this is listening to people, finding out where they're what information they have, what they don't, like how ambivalent they are, how much they already care. Because often people do care, but they don't really know where to start. And really treating the conversation as a conversation, which sounds painfully obvious when you say it out loud, but it's amazing how often we we forget to do that and just start talking. speaker-0: Yeah, and listening is such a undervalued skill. And it is, well, I mean, in all contexts, not just climate change. We should all learn to listen better and understand where people are coming from. I think this is an interesting point because a lot of the moment, especially in this kind of like post-truth era, there is so much noise. And I think people don't know who to listen to. And it's actually very difficult when we're in this like saturated environment. There is so Much info being thrown at us all the time, some of it correct, some of it not. speaker-1: And we and just so many topics as well. We have so many crises to deal with. And that's actually something Catherine Hae-Hoe ⁓ mentioned when I met her. She said that we often think of every single crisis, everything we have to deal with as a separate bucket that we need to take care of. And then climate change just feels like another bucket on top of everything else, which it isn't. It's a hole in all the other buckets. And reminding people of that, reminding people that. Caring about climate change isn't a whole other thing. It's affecting all the other things we care about, whether that's people having to flee their homes, whether it's the crises in the world, whether it's how expensive things are in the supermarket or to heat your home. All of these things are interconnected. And conversations which don't just treat climate change as one little parochial issue, but connect it to those other things are so, so valuable. speaker-0: Being able to underline those interconnections is at the heart of being able to communicate as well. And because, you know, it's really hard to see the big picture. I don't know if anyone is particularly good at seeing a big picture. Maybe that's just me. It's like sometimes easier to focus in on the little details because you feel like you can have, you know, you can rearrange the chairs. ⁓ meanwhile, the Titanic is sinking. So like it's easier in some ways to focus in on stuff and getting that bigger view. Can feel overwhelming. And I think something like climate change is so big and it is so overwhelming, it's very easy to feel despairing, or it's easy to feel overwhelmed, or all of these things. And from my perspective, I actually always experience those things. You know, it's very anxiety-inducing living in the time we So I think talking about it, communicating about it, telling people why I care about something and trying to understand why they care about the things they care about, that is actually something I find valuable for myself as well as hopefully for other people because it's almost like an antidote to, you know, the chaos. speaker-1: Yeah, I feel like once you start talking about it, what you're scared of, what's going on, and importantly, what you hope will happen, what your dreams are for the future, what you'd like to see, how acting on climate change could also act on loads of other things. Once you start to have those conversations, it can feel a bit less isolating. Also connecting those conversations to your own life, to your own world. I always say that climate change. is everywhere, but when something's everywhere, it can feel like it's nowhere. So having those conversations which yeah, acknowledge the like immense global big picture, but also help localize it, remind you of how that is affecting the deck chairs around you, ⁓ I think is really, really handy. speaker-0: This idea of not feeling isolated, not feeling on your own with it is really important because when you're stuck and you feel a scared or you feel alone or you feel angry and all of these emotions, which are really difficult, at least when you're able to connect with others and to share that, it feels almost not only have you found people that you can, you know, share that anguish with, but also you then have people who are hopefully motivated to try and do something. That actually feels positive. And collective action is one of the most powerful tools that we have in our toolbox to tackle climate change, given that none of us, well, maybe some of you are elected politicians. speaker-1: Yeah, I feel like teaming up is so valuable, both f for you, for your own well-being, but also just like many ⁓ ships raise an ocean. ⁓ many ⁓ a rising tide raises all ships. If you're having these conversations with people who don't necessarily agree with you and aren't necessarily 100% on board, that can still be really valuable if, and it's big if. you're having those conversations in the right way. Yeah, yeah, respectfully. Once you start like screaming at someone and telling them they're immoral and awful, that's not really going to benefit anyone except, I don't know, maybe you'll have fun if you get to do that. But yeah, trying to find a way to bridge the gaps with people. ⁓ and these can even be sometimes somewhat heated conversations, but they can still be valuable if there is love and respect and understanding at the heart of that. speaker-0: Respectfully, presumably. speaker-1: I just had a conversation with my uncle and aunt recently about Palestine, where it was quite heated and there was disagreement about ultimately about some facts. So I don't really know how you can disagree about facts, but here we are. But even though it was quite heated, I'm really glad we had that conversation because we both got to share in the end information with each other. We heard each other, and we actually all came away from it knowing a bit more, not only about each other, but about the situation that we didn't know before. So it was painful and awkward at the time. It's like, ⁓ are they still gonna pay for this meal? But they did. And ⁓ we all came away fuller with knowledge on food. speaker-0: Excellent. We like to be ⁓ sat satiated in ⁓ in many ways. Often the most difficult things are a little bit uncomfortable. And I was definitely guilty of this before, like trying to cut the divide down between, for example, a climate denier and myself by like either shouting across the speaker-1: And that and that didn't work? speaker-0: It's amazing that it didn't work. It didn't, turns out. ⁓ not necessarily in person, which may have been much more cathartic, but mostly online. And actually this this approach doesn't always work. And we live in a very polarized society, and there's so much misinformation out there that actually you have to be able to bring people closer. But that means you have to be willing to get closer as well yourself. You can't just expect, you can't lecture people and expect them to just change all of their worldviews. You have to listen. You have to be willing to compromise. And sometimes the division is too wide. And I think, you know, if you're trying to counter like willful misinformation, it's almost not worth it. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, we all have finite time, energy, and happiness. And it's important to spend those things on the on the right sources. You know, if you have a particular relative where you know they're just gonna push your buttons and it's gonna be a an unpleasant, unfriendly conversation, you don't need to put yourself through that. They're they're better, more constructive places to put your energy than that conversation, I would say. speaker-0: Yeah, and impact is is important. So maybe we can sum up by trying to offer some words of wisdom on like how how do you find in your either your daily life or in your life as a communicator are some really good ways of getting through to people or like trying to communicate stuff and like how do you start if you've never really thought of yourself as a communicator before? speaker-1: Think it's very often not to just be like, hey, so what about climate change? But when we're talking about something anyway that is related to climate change, which spoiler alert is almost everything, then link making those links, you know. If we're talking about like, ⁓ my God, it's so weird how early spring is this year, or like, ⁓ it's crazy how expensive it is to heat your home today, or how expensive stuff is at the grocery store, whatever it is, then just being like, Yeah, and like it, you know, a big part of that is connected to climate change and how's that making you feel or you you know, are you feeling scared about that? What are we gonna do about this? And not like ⁓ coming with the answers. Often I'm genuinely curious what people are thinking about that and you know, what they're hoping for. And often I find people are thinking a lot about it and are thinking about how their lives can be compatible with that. And that's often a good opportunity to launch in and be like, well, I have a few ideas. Ideally not with that smug voice, but unfortunately occasionally it sneaks in even with with the best of intentions. speaker-0: I think this pure point about curiosity is really crucial as well. And it's something that I've heard other people say. Like, do you know Blind Boy, the Blind Boy podcast? Right. ⁓ shh, no, definitely not. he talks a lot about like having curiosity in conversations and understanding where people come from. And that is so vital if you want to communicate with anyone about anything. And even just like talking amongst speaker-1: Yeah, you're obsessed. speaker-0: your immediate circle, whether that's friends or family or colleagues or whatever, and talking about things that matter directly to you is such a great way to start. And you know, you don't have to be getting on a stage to address 3,000 people ⁓ to have an impact. Actually, like you said, the most impactful thing is often the people that are directly in your life already. Your brother start to stop flying and take the train instead is much more likely to make you consider it than someone on TV doing it. speaker-1: And I often love to pretend that I hate listening to people because none of them are as interesting as me. But ultimately, that's not the case. When you actually stop and listen to people and listen to what they think about and they care about, you learn so much. It's so interesting. Like you don't have to be a climate scientist to have an interesting perspective and interesting emotions and interesting ideas around this. You know, climate change affects all of us. And ideally, we all feel feel that and think about it and care about it. And so giving people the conversational space to explore that and express it, ⁓ it's great. And it's one of the times when I really feel so lucky to to do what we do. speaker-0: Yeah, same. And you're also very good at talking about your emotional reaction to climate change. As a recovering academic, I'm getting better at it, but I still find it quite difficult to separate. But I think, yeah, we all need to talk about how it makes us feel as well, because we can't help but feel stuff about this madness. ⁓ speaker-1: We're living here, we're living on this planet. It's not somewhere else this is happening to. It affects all of us. And I always find it a bit jarring when I, for example, speak to a climate scientist and they're talking about it as if it's some kind of abstract problem happening, you know, somewhere else. It's like, no, this is this is happening in your backyard as well. In the spirit of you all being the best positioned climate communicators within your own worlds. I would personally love to hear some of the stories that you have about times that you have tried to go out there and talk about climate change meaningfully. And obviously not all of those are going to be wild success stories. I'm sure there've been times when we've all been banging our heads against the wall. But I think it's just so valuable to to share that and learn from each other. speaker-0: Yeah, so drop them in the comments below. I yeah. Don't forget to subscribe to Adam's channel if you haven't already. And obviously mine if you haven't already. ⁓ and give this a share, you know, start some conversations. speaker-1: Yeah, I feel like that's a really good lazy way of starting a conversation, just sharing a good YouTube video. So if you can't be bothered to do all the other things we're talking about, just send this video to a bunch of people. speaker-0: I really hope that you found that interesting and if you enjoyed it, then please do consider signing up to my Patreon. Patrons will get the director's cut of future podcast episodes as well as early access to all new videos and bonus content. Let Adam and I know in the comments what you thought of this video and what your experiences of communicating and talking about climate change have been. And if you have ideas of who else you'd like to see on the channel, then I am absolutely All is. I'm planning to release one of these every month or so, and I've already got some brilliant guests lined up for you. Next time I'll be speaking to an expert about the impact of climate heating on our fragile food systems and what that means for our weekly food shop. So subscribe here so you don't miss it. Until then, you can check out this video about food and climate, and I'll catch you next time. Ciao.