Latest / Promoter101 / Promoter 101 # 243 - Independent Promoter Session

Transcript

Promoter 101 # 243 - Independent Promoter Session · Promoter101

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: All right, all right, discussion, it's the heart of the matter.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: So enough opinions on a silver flattering to ride the
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: information getting bringing your guy so high you'll be spreading.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: The dudes with attitudes will put you in them for
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: a pain full of breadfruits. So don't delay. My daughter
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: and my son visit the buffet called Promoter one oh one.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome one and all to a very special episode of
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: the Promoter one oh one podcast. We are so excited
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: to be in between some episodes here this is episode
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: two forty three a Promoter one oh one. Today I
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: got a very special feature for you. It's gonna be
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: a independent promoter session with night Lights, Don Cronberg, Gate
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: fifty two's Aaron Zimmerman, Psycho Steve Steven Chilton, all the
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: way from Pittsburgh, Drusk Entertainment's Brian Druski, and from Minneapolis
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: First Avenue is Nathan Krantz.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: The Promoter one on one podcast starts right now.
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: It's pretty obvious they never really grew.
• 2:00
  Speaker 6: He only learned how to act in public. Seiney and
• 2:04
  Speaker 6: Luke in the morning on Promoter one oh one.
• 2:09
  Speaker 7: There are a bunch of pass Promoter one oh one episodes,
• 2:11
  Speaker 7: and hey, we'd love for you to go back and listen.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: To themo Connor absolutely and feel free to hit us
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: up with your ideas and questions at Steiny at Promoter
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: one oh one dot net.
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: What do you gotta say about that, Luke?
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Well, of course, we're all over the internet, Dan. The
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: conversation continues on x This show is at Promoter one
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: oh one, I'm at W. Lupierce, Dan is at the
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: Jew and over on Instagram, the show is at Steiny
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Promoter one oh one. Dan is that Dan Presents and
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: I'm at W Luke Pierce.
• 2:39
  Speaker 6: Now their opinions may have changed, but not the fact
• 2:43
  Speaker 6: that they're always right. Huh. Steiny and Luke in the
• 2:46
  Speaker 6: Morning on Promoter one oh one.
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: Normally we talk about news of the week, Luke, but
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: we're gonna save that for the regular episode in two
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: weeks when we're back.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: You got a little news to share with everybody. I
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: saw on the old social media that you and a
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: LOADI have relocated your else to the beautiful North cal area. Congratulations,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: what's going on with you in your life?
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: Very excited about that we are moving to Mill Valley, California.
• 3:08
  Speaker 7: It's a dream come true and process has started, but
• 3:11
  Speaker 7: the next month or so is gonna be.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: A little chaotic.
• 3:14
  Speaker 7: Dis We go from Auburn, Washington to Mill Valley, California,
• 3:18
  Speaker 7: And yeah, I'm really excited about that, just to change
• 3:21
  Speaker 7: the scenery and change of pace, a little empty nest
• 3:24
  Speaker 7: vibe and starting over third chapter and should be fun.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Of course, your daughter Reese and Oregon duck. Here you
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: are kind of empty nest scene right now. But what
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Seattle is too rainy or you just could be that
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: far away from Jeff White Limel Valley.
• 3:37
  Speaker 7: Mill Valley is beautiful, and I just love the vibe.
• 3:41
  Speaker 7: Jeff White doesn't hurt the whole scenario down there by
• 3:43
  Speaker 7: any means.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: We decided a while ago we were gonna leave the
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: Pacific Northwest after Reese went to school. She'd been out
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: of the house for a little over a year now,
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: finishing up her second year at Oregon, and so instead
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: of going north through the Thanksgiving she'll come south. So
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: it'll be great. We're excited about that. Reese is excited
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: a load. He's excited. Sammy the Wonder Pup is very
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: excited because right next door is a white husky that
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: is the exact same age, So Sammy's already got a
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: best friend in waiting. It's great.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: We'll congrats see you and Aldi, and we'll still see
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: a lot of Dan Steinberg out there in the world
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: and hopefully see some more shows in the Bay Area.
• 4:15
  Speaker 7: I assure you of that. Oh, we should get to
• 4:17
  Speaker 7: our session. But if you are of indemendent flear, there
• 4:20
  Speaker 7: is a cool conference coming up, Luke, there are, and
• 4:22
  Speaker 7: it relates exactly to what we're talking about here. This
• 4:25
  Speaker 7: was I think inadvertently planned, although it's a really nice
• 4:29
  Speaker 7: plug for our friends at the National Independent Venue Association.
• 4:32
  Speaker 7: The NEVA Conference is coming up this June seven to ten.
• 4:36
  Speaker 7: It'll be in Minneapolis.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: A lot of our great friends that'll be playing hosts
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: in that beautiful city, and of course some of the
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: founding board members including Dana Frank, and all the first
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: AT folks, including one of our.
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: Guests who's about to be on here.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be a grateful host to all of
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: the independence that are going to be out there. It's
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: a fantastic conference, Dan, I'm not able to make it
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: this year. It's also the same week as CMA Fest
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: in Nashville. Very sad about that. But this is all
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: always one conference that I look forward to seeing on
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: the schedule. Here. It's become a really productive place and
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: just a really great exchange of ideas, independent minds, and
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: a lot of things that I think are missed in
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: some of these other conferences. So for those of you
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: that haven't registered yet, badges should still be available here,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: but you should get on it right now.
• 5:17
  Speaker 7: You know, we've been flirting about going for the longest time,
• 5:19
  Speaker 7: talking to Jimmy Lobe and Dana Franks and Andre Perry
• 5:23
  Speaker 7: about maybe doing the podcast there, maybe some kind of
• 5:27
  Speaker 7: version of some kind of session at some point. We've
• 5:29
  Speaker 7: been flirting with it for a long time. I think
• 5:31
  Speaker 7: we should go in twenty seven, Like we can't go
• 5:34
  Speaker 7: this year. I got the move, you've got seen May,
• 5:36
  Speaker 7: But I think we should bring promoter one on one
• 5:39
  Speaker 7: to NIVA.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: It seems like the independent spirit. We should do that.
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: Put it out there. I think we should do it.
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: I agree.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: I'm in Are we committing to twenty seven right here
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: on the podcast?
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: I guess they have to invite us, But if we
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: could be so bold to invite them, it.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: Would be so bold to tell tell them that we'd
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: like to come to your conference.
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: Now, those guys have been very cool and they have
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: been amazing off for us.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: You know, some kind of thing and we've yet to
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: figure it out. But I think in twenty seven we
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: should try to make that happen.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: You heard it from Dan, NIVA dot org Slash Conference,
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: NIVAS dot org Slash Conference, n iv A SSOC dot
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: org Slash Conference. Go get your badges before they sold out.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: I assume they will sell out.
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: In advances, Toni and Luke would like to remind you
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: that a clean desk, he's a sign of a fluttered
• 6:28
  Speaker 6: desk drawer Promoter one oh one.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Without further ado, let's please welcome to the podcast Night Lights.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Don Cromberg, Gate fifty Two's Aaron Zimmerman, Psycho, Steve Stephen Hilton,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: Brian Druski from Drusky Entertainment and First Avenue.
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: Nathan Krantz Promoter one oh one.
• 6:46
  Speaker 7: It's a special episode. We are doing an independent Talent
• 6:50
  Speaker 7: buyer session. We've asked some of our favorite talent buyers
• 6:53
  Speaker 7: across the country, representing pretty much the entire nation, to
• 6:58
  Speaker 7: come and talk to us about the current environment out
• 7:01
  Speaker 7: there from the Indie point of view. Joining us from
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: the Chicago market, Ntlake Promotions, Don Cromberg promoting across the country,
• 7:09
  Speaker 7: one of the bigger independence these days. From Gate fifty two.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: Aaron Zimmerman Psycho, Steve Chilton from Phoenix, Arizona. Brian Dreski
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: holding it down, from the Pittsburgh and the Greater Pennsylvania market,
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: and from First Avenue taking over every venue in the Midwest.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: It seems every time I look up there announcing another venue,
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: Nate Crans is with us. Thanks guys for joining us.
• 7:30
  Speaker 8: Thank you.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: All right, So we're going to skip past the current
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: DOJ stuff that everybody's talking about, because I don't want
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: to get sucked into.
• 7:37
  Speaker 7: I want to talk about your business frame as independent.
• 7:40
  Speaker 7: You guys are all certainly finding a way to do
• 7:43
  Speaker 7: volume and continue year after year to continue to build
• 7:46
  Speaker 7: your business on a volume based level. But it seems
• 7:50
  Speaker 7: from the outside, in a successful manners, there's growth for
• 7:53
  Speaker 7: all of you. Oh yeah, and this year has been.
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: A slower start than the last couple of years. Aaron
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: and I were talking off air. At the end of
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: the day, we all figure it out. Is independence, you know,
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: it's a little bit different. We navigate a different territory
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: than the national guys live nations AEGs of the world.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: But we all figure it out. You know, I don't
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: do the sexiest stuff. I've never done the sexiest stuff
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: known to mankind. But I've always made a great living.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: As a matter of fact, for thirty six years, I've
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: been doing this, you know. And occasionally we get big
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: bones thrown to us. Occasionally we latch onto something that
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: we are able to ride out for a while until
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: usually what happens, the bigger guy comes along with a
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: tour deal and steals the act, and that just kind
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: of goes with the territory a little bit more so
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: these days than it used to be. But at the
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: end of the day, you know, when I still enjoy
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: what I do, I still enjoy the artist and the
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: acts that I get to work with. And like you said,
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: you know, we put together enough volume to make a
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: good living, and you know, I've got a few more years, man,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: I'd like to believe that there will be a few
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: more good years.
• 9:03
  Speaker 8: A hat.
• 9:04
  Speaker 7: So you kind of got the little big horn method
• 9:06
  Speaker 7: where you guys started in the outskirts of Chicago metro area,
• 9:11
  Speaker 7: and as you built relationships, you both built outwards into
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: Milwaukee and Rockford as well in Peoria, and then at
• 9:19
  Speaker 7: the same time started to build those relationships into the
• 9:21
  Speaker 7: Chicago Theater as you weren't trying to compete with JAM
• 9:24
  Speaker 7: right off the bat, but years in you're doing runs
• 9:27
  Speaker 7: with some of those acts that you are doing at
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: Chicago Theater, so you have been able to penetrate that
• 9:31
  Speaker 7: market over time. But you started in the secondaries, which
• 9:34
  Speaker 7: is similar to what Aaron's doing at Gate fifty two,
• 9:36
  Speaker 7: where they're really focusing on the b's and the seas
• 9:39
  Speaker 7: and there are.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: Some a's right, but they're not really the focus.
• 9:43
  Speaker 8: Eron That is definitely not the focus. There are a
• 9:45
  Speaker 8: few clearly where partners with JAM in Chicago, but in general,
• 9:49
  Speaker 8: the goal for Gay fifty two was to be in
• 9:52
  Speaker 8: the secondaries and tertiaries and try and connect the dots
• 9:55
  Speaker 8: for the agents that were operating in the major markets.
• 9:58
  Speaker 8: It felt like that was the your opportunity. It felt
• 10:01
  Speaker 8: like it was the sandbox that was more reasonable to
• 10:04
  Speaker 8: play in, not quite as much competition, although these days
• 10:08
  Speaker 8: I think there's competition everywhere, but we're definitely a secondary
• 10:11
  Speaker 8: driven company and we kind of like it that way.
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: And you're doing venues all over the country at this point,
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: right there's like from Buffalo all the way to the.
• 10:20
  Speaker 8: Bay exactly all of the country. The sweet spot for
• 10:24
  Speaker 8: us is generally probably as low as five hundred all
• 10:27
  Speaker 8: the way up to like thirty five hundred, mostly in
• 10:29
  Speaker 8: the club and theater space. And me personally, I find
• 10:32
  Speaker 8: myself in the non traditional space even more so I
• 10:35
  Speaker 8: like to consider and I think part of the volume
• 10:38
  Speaker 8: in my world is I like to be a specialist
• 10:40
  Speaker 8: in that zone. I think as a buyer, not all
• 10:43
  Speaker 8: of us can know everything, not all of us can
• 10:45
  Speaker 8: be in tune with what's coming up or every single
• 10:48
  Speaker 8: artist that's going out, and so I like to stay
• 10:51
  Speaker 8: a bit in my lane. And I think that Kate
• 10:53
  Speaker 8: fifty two was created with specialists in mind, and our
• 10:57
  Speaker 8: group of talent buyers at k fifty two is true specialists,
• 11:01
  Speaker 8: you know, dedicated people that know their world and their
• 11:04
  Speaker 8: genre or lane extremely well.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: Right So, and that's a similar vibe to what you're
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: doing in Pittsburgh, Brian, as you have certainly not an
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: a market, but a solid b and you've built that
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: into a lot of the tertiaries that surround you as
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: you're now not just buying for Pittsburgh, but you are
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: buying a solid amount of volume there, but you're taking
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: shows into many of the surrounding markets all around you.
• 11:25
  Speaker 9: Yeah, correct, Like I mean it was I was kind
• 11:27
  Speaker 9: of forced to go into different markets just because I
• 11:31
  Speaker 9: can get shows in a town like Youngstown where Johnstown
• 11:36
  Speaker 9: maybe a wheeling or state college or Eerie, where I'm
• 11:41
  Speaker 9: not even getting the call in Pittsburgh because it's the
• 11:44
  Speaker 9: big guys fighting for it in the large arenas and
• 11:46
  Speaker 9: it's like nearly impossible. I mean, you know, it's creating
• 11:50
  Speaker 9: my own stuff here, like I now have a three
• 11:53
  Speaker 9: thousand cap amphitheater I've been working in which I can
• 11:56
  Speaker 9: steal with a couple things here and there, but it's
• 11:58
  Speaker 9: still not as easy the to do what we're doing.
• 12:01
  Speaker 9: So I was kind of forced to do it some
• 12:03
  Speaker 9: of those markets that I go into. You know, I
• 12:05
  Speaker 9: also go into some markets upstate New York in why
• 12:08
  Speaker 9: Copra wrote with some people, went over in some of
• 12:10
  Speaker 9: the Midwest cities, Coke writing with some other people. So
• 12:14
  Speaker 9: as independent promoters working together trying to write the fight
• 12:17
  Speaker 9: and stay relevant.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: So it seems like you have a very similar model
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: to Donnie actually where you're in a decent market, but
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: you're having to go outside your market to build a
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: full year's worth of volume for solid business, correct.
• 12:31
  Speaker 9: I mean when Don was talking, I'm like, that sounds
• 12:33
  Speaker 9: exactly like me. I mean, his business model will sound
• 12:36
  Speaker 9: exactly like what I'm doing. I don't get the sexy
• 12:39
  Speaker 9: stuff here and there. I might get something, but you know,
• 12:42
  Speaker 9: I'm living on the outskirts of doing what I need
• 12:46
  Speaker 9: to get to do to make a living and make
• 12:48
  Speaker 9: a good living at it.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: If both of you were to ignore the outlying markets
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: Pittsburgh and Chicago outliers and just focus on your city,
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: would there be enough volume to make decent annual living
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: without scrapping hard No.
• 13:04
  Speaker 9: No, no, no, probably not.
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: So it's it's an evolver die thing where you're going.
• 13:10
  Speaker 7: You're servicing this outlying markets. I mean, I'd like to
• 13:12
  Speaker 7: comment on that a little bit more, you.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Know, being the fact that I lived just outside of
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: the city limits of Chicago. I'm out by O'haa airport
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: since day one. I think Dan touched on it. I
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: had no choice day one but to go to the
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: secondary market. Actually, I did get my start in Rockford, Illinois,
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: and I quickly and that was kind of a funny story,
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: and I'm not going to bring in the other promoter.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: But I went to the other big promoter in the
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: area and I approached him at a show and I said, hey, listen,
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: I'm getting into the business. You've always been somebody that
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: I looked up to, and I'd like to work with
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: you in this specific city, which was Rockford, Illinois. And
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: he said to me, and he's a nice guy, and
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: he said, don if I want to do the show,
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: I will do it myself, but thank you for the offer.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: And I said all right, And I made it a
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: passion of mine to go out and become the number
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: one promoter in Rockford, Illinois very quickly, and for a
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: number of years, I was the guy. If you wanted
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: a show at the Metro Center or the Coronado, you
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: called me. And then I did that with a couple
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: of other cities as well, and that became kind of
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: became the thing for me. Like I carved out a
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: number of smaller markets in the Midwest that we've touched on,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: and really I didn't think about Chicago. I didn't do
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: my first show at the Chicago Theater until like twelve
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: or thirteen years ago, and I had just kind of
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: written off the idea and I got used to the
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: living that I was making. And then when I finally,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: you know, the door opened up for me to do
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: shows there, it was great. But the funniest thing is,
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: and I hope some of you will agree with me,
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: that as a indie promoter, I make more money in
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: the secondary tertiary markets of the world than I do Chicago.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: I can sell out the Chicago Theater. I shouldn't be
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: using them as an example, but I'm going I can
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: make more money playing a venue half the size with
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: the right act.
• 15:05
  Speaker 7: Well, I mean, I think they would argue that their
• 15:07
  Speaker 7: dirt is more expensive in your deal terms, in the bigger,
• 15:11
  Speaker 7: popular buildings, where every single person is fighting to get
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: in there with whatever project they're working on. At the
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: end of the day, they know that they don't have
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: to give the building away, and like you said, the
• 15:22
  Speaker 7: cost of doing shows. You know, in Chicago, I've got
• 15:25
  Speaker 7: local two, I've got super expensive front of house and
• 15:29
  Speaker 7: staffing and security costs and every other line item is
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: far more expensive than when I go into the Rockford Peorias,
• 15:37
  Speaker 7: and you know, other tertiary markets of the world and
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: I don't know, I just kind of got used to it.
• 15:42
  Speaker 7: Don't get me wrong. I love going into my own.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: City and doing an occasional shell but it's not going
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: to make me a lot of money and it's not
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: going to pay my.
• 15:50
  Speaker 7: Bills overall, right, I want to bring NAD into the
• 15:52
  Speaker 7: conversation now because you guys are an interesting model where
• 15:57
  Speaker 7: you're probably one of the bigger indies in the country
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: at this point, and it's all about the real estate
• 16:02
  Speaker 7: that you guys hold some of the coolest venues in
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: the country. But you've gone from Minneapolis Central to opening
• 16:08
  Speaker 7: up to the entire state where you're doing the Louth
• 16:11
  Speaker 7: and obviously the Twin Cities have always been in play,
• 16:14
  Speaker 7: but there's venues everywhere. You guys continue to pick up
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: more venue share, there's an ampitheater coming online. How much
• 16:19
  Speaker 7: of it is about programming your venues versus four walling
• 16:24
  Speaker 7: in Korea and taking acts into other markets at this point.
• 16:27
  Speaker 10: I mean, it's funny because I was I was sitting
• 16:29
  Speaker 10: there listening in Our model is almost the opposite in
• 16:33
  Speaker 10: that we've really started with Minneapolis and now we have
• 16:37
  Speaker 10: just as many venues in Saint Paul.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: Which you consider that the same market, right.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 16:42
  Speaker 10: It's one. I was just gonna say, yeah, I mean,
• 16:43
  Speaker 10: but that's really it's it's it's that's only one market.
• 16:46
  Speaker 10: But we've really put a focus on trying to put
• 16:48
  Speaker 10: a moat around the Twin Cities and really do whatever
• 16:52
  Speaker 10: we can to stay strong there. That's our focus. Obviously,
• 16:56
  Speaker 10: when we own six venues, we're trying to do enough
• 16:59
  Speaker 10: volume in the clubs and theaters to make sense out
• 17:02
  Speaker 10: of owning six venues. But then, as you said, then
• 17:06
  Speaker 10: we are with some artists and it depends on the
• 17:09
  Speaker 10: artist's relationship, it depends on the opportunity. But then we
• 17:12
  Speaker 10: do go outside of the Twin Cities into markets like
• 17:15
  Speaker 10: Duluth Waite Park, which is you know, Saint Cloud, and
• 17:19
  Speaker 10: on occasion elsewhere. I mean, we've done shows kind of
• 17:22
  Speaker 10: all over the state, but our focus has really been
• 17:25
  Speaker 10: on staying strong within Minneapolis Saint Paul and really just
• 17:29
  Speaker 10: developing these artists. Our smallest froom is a place called
• 17:32
  Speaker 10: the Clown Lounge, but that's not routinely programmed, so we
• 17:35
  Speaker 10: consider it like your entry level to the market is
• 17:37
  Speaker 10: Seventh Street Entry, which is a two point fifty cap
• 17:40
  Speaker 10: classic you know, punk Rock Venue, it's been there for
• 17:44
  Speaker 10: forty six years. Try and guide an artists from there
• 17:48
  Speaker 10: up through the Palace Theater which is in Saint Paul
• 17:51
  Speaker 10: at twenty four hundred CAP. And as you mentioned, you know,
• 17:54
  Speaker 10: we will have our own eight thousand camp outdoor Amphitheater
• 17:58
  Speaker 10: opening next year. But right now we do shows. That's
• 18:00
  Speaker 10: Surly Brewing Outdoors, which is six thousand. But it's really
• 18:04
  Speaker 10: like developing the artists and then trying to hold on
• 18:06
  Speaker 10: for dear life and fend off the tour deals.
• 18:11
  Speaker 7: It feels like you guys have had better than average
• 18:13
  Speaker 7: luck at holding onto artists. I know there's a film
• 18:15
  Speaker 7: more in your market that you guys are competing with
• 18:17
  Speaker 7: now that is new over the last ten years. Yeah,
• 18:20
  Speaker 7: so it can't it can't be as easy as it
• 18:22
  Speaker 7: used to be, obviously, but there's definitely.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Obviously your partnership with Jam's got to help. It's good
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: strategic that helps. I mean, and we work with other
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: we work with other partners.
• 18:30
  Speaker 10: I mean, it's to me when it's we wear two hats,
• 18:33
  Speaker 10: we're promoting shows. It's one thing. From the venue side,
• 18:36
  Speaker 10: we've established a lot of partnerships to you know, again
• 18:39
  Speaker 10: keep the volume of shows coming through our venues. We
• 18:42
  Speaker 10: work with you know, various Christian promoters, comedy promoters out
• 18:46
  Speaker 10: back will bring shows into the rooms on occasion. We're
• 18:49
  Speaker 10: working with Live Nation aeg. Over the years, we've had
• 18:53
  Speaker 10: a lot of competition. It's changed. It went from you know,
• 18:57
  Speaker 10: Clear Channel was in the market, the AG came in
• 19:01
  Speaker 10: and opened a couple of clubs, those clothes they left
• 19:05
  Speaker 10: Live Nation team back in. Now they own the fill
• 19:08
  Speaker 10: More and they have another similar size venue called Uptown
• 19:12
  Speaker 10: Theater in Minneapolis. They're operating the Varsity, which is a
• 19:15
  Speaker 10: room that I don't know we really established. We were
• 19:19
  Speaker 10: doing maybe one hundred shows a year, eighty two hundred
• 19:22
  Speaker 10: shows a year before they ended up taking that over.
• 19:24
  Speaker 10: So yeah, I mean, we've got competition, but we've also
• 19:28
  Speaker 10: got talented people, and we've got legendary venues and a
• 19:32
  Speaker 10: good game plan for the artists to try and let
• 19:35
  Speaker 10: them know that when they play for us, it's not
• 19:38
  Speaker 10: just a one off. We're not just like hoping you
• 19:40
  Speaker 10: sell out the entry and say goodbye, it's okay. What's
• 19:44
  Speaker 10: the next step in trying to stay involved in that
• 19:47
  Speaker 10: decision making and planning. And I think that goes a
• 19:50
  Speaker 10: long way towards again hanging on even after bands might
• 19:54
  Speaker 10: graduate from our rooms.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: All right, and none of the same concept in a
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: much smaller earlier stage. Mister Chilton, you've got that going
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: on in Phoenix. Were you taking over the Mason Jar
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: stage and turned it into your own venue, rebrand in it,
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: brought it back to life, and you're building for me?
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: What are your three fifty gap?
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: We say three twenty five syllable, three fifty total. Yeah,
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: so exactly. My always pitch has always been, like, we
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: do have Rebel Lounge.
• 20:19
  Speaker 10: That is our room.
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: That's definitely our incubator, sort of exactly what Seventh Street
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: is to Rebel res Avenue. Ger right, Let's yeah, Rebel
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: Lounge was the Mason Jar.
• 20:28
  Speaker 10: We rebrand.
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: It had been closed for like a decade when we
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: took over, and so when we took over, rebranded.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: But it's the same building, opening more venues and growing
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: in trying to grow into like a first avenue kind
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: of thing where you've got market share in your region
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: based on having strategic pathway.
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: I'm definitely been looking at other venue ideas and you know,
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: none of them have worked out yet. I kind of
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: if I do another venue, it's got to be right.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: I don't want to do anything that isn't awesome. But
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: ours is really growing artists in the market, and like
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: our big pitch is always we go into kind of
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: every room, every club, everythink up to like five thousand
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: cap and go into all the rooms and sort of
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: want to make sure that when you're looking at Arizona
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: you can have one call, like we routinely send seven
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: or eight offers on a show and present here's a
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: number of different all the different options. Is kind of
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: routine for us, so that you can follow us and
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: have one conversation about every option in Arizona, whether it's
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: going to Tucson or Phoenix or here's the different clubs,
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: both in capacity styles. I think when you're talking to
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: developing stuff, you know, anythink under a thousand caps the
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: rooms make way more difference, you know, Like this showed
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: me this is a country show that will work in
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: this room, It's not going to work in the other room.
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: And then when the same agent on the conversation the
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: next day will be the exact opposite. Hey, you got
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: a punk rock band they want to be in the room.
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: I told you was wrong. Yesterday when we were talking
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: about the Country Act, but now it is right for
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: this and sort of being that where you can get
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: an honest opinion on all the different options in Arizona
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: is what we try to do. So we work with
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: basically every every venue minus some of the PACs. We
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: don't do a lot in PACs, but other than that,
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: and we work with Live Nation a lot. Go into
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: their rooms they promoted, or they promote into Rebel Lounge,
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: we copro in other rooms with them, and so I
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: try and work with everybody. So we work with a
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: lot of different promoters in the market. You know, I'm
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: artists specific. Whether it's Mikey Universatile UM on a hip
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: hop show here or with Kim Lorow at thirty four
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: on a metal show. It's like always what is the
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: best option for the artist?
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: You know, you'll us go into Tucson in Albuquerque too, right,
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: And sometimes yeah, we do. We do a lot in Tucson.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: We do multiple ship you know, a dozen shows a
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: month in Tucson. We occasionally go to Flagstaff maybe one
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: or two shows a year, not very often, but we will.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: And then started in the last year and a half
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: going into Albuquerque working with the Revel there a little
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: bit of expansion there, all right.
• 22:55
  Speaker 7: So I'm hearing that there are two models. Essentially, there's
• 22:58
  Speaker 7: the venue model, where you're based your business on filling
• 23:02
  Speaker 7: your room and maybe counting on some of those intulary revenues, ticketing,
• 23:07
  Speaker 7: the bar, what have you, versus the four walling in
• 23:12
  Speaker 7: a region and making it based on the region. And
• 23:16
  Speaker 7: it seems like there's a hybrid of some of these
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: two businesses coming into it. But some of you lean
• 23:21
  Speaker 7: more on the promoting and renting, some of you promote,
• 23:24
  Speaker 7: lean more on the filling your own venues, and then
• 23:27
  Speaker 7: there's a mixture between the two for almost everybody. Is
• 23:30
  Speaker 7: that kind of the mix for everybody getting out?
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: I think so.
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: And then for us with Rebel, you know, it's like
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: we're a three hundred cap club. There's not a lot
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: of money being made there, you know, either on the
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: club side or you know, the promoter side. That really
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: is the incubator for artists. You know, most of the
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: biggest artists we do are artists that we booked at Rebel,
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: and we're the first and really see its like planning,
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: you know, it's like planning. Lots of seeds. You don't
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: know which ones are going to come through, but when
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: we do Alex g or MENTI trust, or we justnounce
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: to show and Geese. You know, those are all artists
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: that we booked a rebel and have managed to book
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: every step up. And it's like, Okay, we did rebel,
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: now let's go to the five hundred cap. Now let's
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: go to the two thousand cap. And more and more
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: of these conversations are like, okay, let's now go to
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: the two thousand cap or the five thousand cap, you know,
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: and really being getting that first call and building the
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: artist and taking the first call before anyone else. Is
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: that interested? Is that very much my model? Every lose
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: as many as we keep, you know, for everyone we
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: managed to keep to that level, we lose too.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: But it's fine.
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: It is what it is.
• 24:37
  Speaker 8: Aaron, you were about to say, you know, I was
• 24:39
  Speaker 8: going to say, I think we rely heavily on the
• 24:42
  Speaker 8: mix at this point, if not even more toward the
• 24:44
  Speaker 8: own and O and or exclusive relationships. We've got a
• 24:49
  Speaker 8: couple dozen rooms in the portfolio at this point, and
• 24:51
  Speaker 8: while we absolutely are promoting in third parties, I think
• 24:55
  Speaker 8: the margin and focusing on our owned and operators, we're
• 24:58
  Speaker 8: finding is a more loose grid of business than third
• 25:01
  Speaker 8: party at this juncture. I think being a third party
• 25:04
  Speaker 8: promoter has beencome harder and harder over the years. I
• 25:07
  Speaker 8: think there's more competition than ever and I think with
• 25:10
  Speaker 8: expenses going up, inflation going up, and frankly, ticket prices
• 25:15
  Speaker 8: probably at a peak.
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: Although a lot of people would.
• 25:18
  Speaker 8: Probably argue that a live event, especially in sports, that
• 25:21
  Speaker 8: there is no peak in the Olympics, you know, and
• 25:23
  Speaker 8: those tickets, how fast they want probably says something. But
• 25:27
  Speaker 8: I think the average consumer has seen the ticket prices
• 25:30
  Speaker 8: go about as high as it should at this point,
• 25:32
  Speaker 8: and so I think the deals in our business as
• 25:35
  Speaker 8: a whole are challenging to combat, where we want to
• 25:38
  Speaker 8: try and keep ticket prices as reasonable as possible for
• 25:41
  Speaker 8: the consumer, but also get the artists as much money
• 25:44
  Speaker 8: as possible and sustain and be able to make a
• 25:47
  Speaker 8: living all at the same time. And it's a delicate ecosystem.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: For anyone that says there's no peak didn't has never
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: taken an economics class. It clearly is a supply and
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: demand curve, and at some point you break the curve,
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: there would be paradigm shifts, and there can be changes
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: to the model, but in general, there is a limited
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: finite amount of money in the economy and at some
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: point entertainment is the last thing to fill the h
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: and credit cards can only do so much. So as
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: people tell me it's completely elastic and it's totally fine,
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: it's just like you didn't go to college, did you.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: So anytime Semmy has an argument, I kind of want
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: to snap at their head because it doesn't it doesn't
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: make sense. Shows will eventually lose.
• 26:28
  Speaker 9: One starts seeing that.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: Amen.
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think there's one of the ones that
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: the hard one, that the hardest part of all our
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: jobs and the agent's jobs is when it's really hot,
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: it feels like you priced it way too low. You
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: could have charged way more, And when it's not working,
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: we all overshot. And like some of the times that
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: you put up a show and it blows out the
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: second it went up and sail and you go, man,
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: I could have pushed that, take it a little more.
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: And then on other times you think you've underpriced it
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: and you didn't, and then it's just a struggle. And
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: so like trying to figure out artist artists or to tour.
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: I think we're seeing right now a lot of tours
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: on the developing end that are not doing what they
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: did last year. And it's like we all thought, Okay,
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: we sold out a three hundred cap, we can go
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: in the five hundred cap this year, and now we're
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: going to do less, and so getting that right of
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: is harder than ever of what that right price is.
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: Let's talk for a moment about the business model in general.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: Are you making money?
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm not going to ask you what you made
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: last year, but are you making money when it's all
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: said and done, Let's just go around this in a
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: circle real quick. Aeron yes, Nate, yeah, Steven yeah, Donnie yes, Sir,
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: mister Draski, yep. Okay, so you're all making money. I'm
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: not asking you to what level and what extent. Now
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: I will ask you, are you pacing this year for
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: a better year or a worse year than last year?
• 27:51
  Speaker 10: It's much slower in our in our market, not as strong,
• 27:57
  Speaker 10: definitely slower.
• 27:58
  Speaker 9: It seemed like it was coming out of the game
• 28:00
  Speaker 9: a little bit better, but now it's kind of tapered off.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: Slower, definitely slower. Okay, Now some of you depend on
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: the bar, and some of you depend on ticket sales,
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: and I know it's the ticket sales kind of affect
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: the bar at the end of the day too, But
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: in general, Nate, it seems like the bar is softer
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: on shows. Kids are drinking less.
• 28:20
  Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I gotta tell you.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Can you just see about it on the bar anymore?
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: Is that?
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: Is that something you're not holding when you're buying a show.
• 28:28
  Speaker 9: I mean, I don't.
• 28:29
  Speaker 10: I barely contemplate the bar when we're booking shows. At
• 28:34
  Speaker 10: this point. It's not only that the bar sales have
• 28:37
  Speaker 10: tapered off, it's also just the pricing pressures. And I
• 28:41
  Speaker 10: can't speak to everybody else's market, but in Minneapolis, we
• 28:45
  Speaker 10: you know, we don't have a tip credit, so we're
• 28:47
  Speaker 10: up to like a sixteen dollars and thirty seven cent
• 28:50
  Speaker 10: minimum wage with no relief. We have eighteen percent nearly
• 28:54
  Speaker 10: eight seventeen and a half percent tax, and we sell
• 28:57
  Speaker 10: a beer. But there's only so much you can you know, charge,
• 29:01
  Speaker 10: Just like tickets, all of this stuff, it comes into
• 29:03
  Speaker 10: the equation for people that you're trying to get to
• 29:06
  Speaker 10: come out, not once a year, not just for one
• 29:08
  Speaker 10: big stadium, show, but we're counting on our customers to
• 29:11
  Speaker 10: come out, you know, ten, twelve, fifteen times a year,
• 29:14
  Speaker 10: and the pricing pressure has just gotten insane, and so
• 29:19
  Speaker 10: we're also just looking to our city government saying we
• 29:22
  Speaker 10: provide something. We're we're bringing all these people. We've always
• 29:25
  Speaker 10: been here through the changes that Downtown's or other entertainment
• 29:30
  Speaker 10: has seen. But it's time to take our business seriously
• 29:33
  Speaker 10: because just between the artist deals and people not drinking
• 29:39
  Speaker 10: as much and then pricing pressures, it's getting difficult, especially
• 29:43
  Speaker 10: at that smallest level, especially the two fifty three fifty clubs,
• 29:47
  Speaker 10: which we all depend on, every single one of us
• 29:50
  Speaker 10: to develop these artists and get them to the next level.
• 29:53
  Speaker 10: And if the bottom falls out of the you know,
• 29:56
  Speaker 10: those smallest rooms that you know nurture career, I don't
• 30:01
  Speaker 10: know where the next bands come from.
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: Then Steven, you have an almost identical calendar as seven
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: Street Entry does in your room, two different markets completely.
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: Do you echo Nate sediment? Are you seeing the same
• 30:13
  Speaker 7: things in Phoenix that he's singing in Minneapolis?
• 30:15
  Speaker 9: Oh?
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean in like Arizona has the worst like
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: lot liability laws for bars, So our liquor insurance is
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: dramatically more than anyone else. And it's a weird one
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: where when we're doing stuff outside of Rebel, I don't
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: really think about bars much, but when we're doing Rebel,
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: thinking about prioritizing those weekends, like I have to make
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: sure that I'm programming with a thought on what gets
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: a Friday and Saturday night, and we've programmed a lot
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: more dance nights. The irony is I can do better
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: a better bar with one hundred person local show with
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: the right bands, then I'll do with a sellout three
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: hundred person show because the locals, everyone's coming out to
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: see their friends, it's a fun night out, they're drinking.
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: You put a cool show in there and everyone's having
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: one beer, and so really thinking way further out about
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: the protecting those weekends. That's how I can lose, you know,
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: have a shit bar on a Tuesday is because the
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: weekend is like we program out our Emo Knight, we
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: do Emo Knight first and do it twice a month.
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: I've got that blocked out forever, Like there's no show
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: that you could call me about that because I need
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: those every month. Three of my four, you know, two
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: of my three best bar nights are our EMO nights,
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: you know, and I hate that we have to do
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: think about that. You know, when we first opened, I
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: didn't think that way about our weekends, and now I
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: got to make sure that there's a couple of those
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: dance nights on a Friday Saturday and work around that
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: because you've got to get that revenue in there, and
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: it's not as cool, but that's what keeps the lights on.
• 31:44
  Speaker 7: Well, let's look to the other side real quick, Donnie,
• 31:47
  Speaker 7: Brian Aaron Aaron, I know you've got you have O
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: and O's two, But like me at Ellen, I'm not
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: focused on the Oleo's as much as I'm focused on
• 31:54
  Speaker 7: my AX.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: And I know you're similar.
• 31:55
  Speaker 7: When talking about four long shows. Do you care how
• 31:59
  Speaker 7: strong bar is gonna be or you just focused on
• 32:01
  Speaker 7: selling tickets at that point because it doesn't change the
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: deal all that much any way, shape or form.
• 32:06
  Speaker 8: For me, it doesn't change the deal at all. I
• 32:08
  Speaker 8: would say, more often than not in theater and club world,
• 32:11
  Speaker 8: the bar is not necessarily a shared financial, you know,
• 32:15
  Speaker 8: benefit to the show or to us as a renter.
• 32:18
  Speaker 8: That's the buildings that generally keep it. So I'm not
• 32:21
  Speaker 8: thinking about it at all for the most part, when
• 32:23
  Speaker 8: I'm renting third party.
• 32:25
  Speaker 9: Right, it depends because I mean I have I have
• 32:28
  Speaker 9: different deals in different venues. So I mean sometimes like
• 32:31
  Speaker 9: in a club.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: That I'm more got time break them all out.
• 32:35
  Speaker 9: I could be hold on a second, But like Stephen
• 32:38
  Speaker 9: was saying, you know, some places, I gotta make sure
• 32:41
  Speaker 9: that I have the the home runs on the weekends
• 32:43
  Speaker 9: because that's the bread and butter for some of these clubs.
• 32:45
  Speaker 9: And I'm sharing in the app revenue, alcohol revenue, you know,
• 32:48
  Speaker 9: and sometimes you know, some of these ages are like
• 32:49
  Speaker 9: well when you really need that Friday and you're gonna
• 32:51
  Speaker 9: but you're gonna draw two hundred people that aren't going
• 32:53
  Speaker 9: to drink, you know what I mean. So it's tough.
• 32:56
  Speaker 9: But then going into like a theater, like I'll go
• 32:58
  Speaker 9: into you know, if I'm I'm not here in the bar,
• 33:01
  Speaker 9: I don't really care, you know what i mean. So
• 33:04
  Speaker 9: it's like if I'm going to sell two thousand tickets,
• 33:06
  Speaker 9: you know, it doesn't matter to me if that venues
• 33:09
  Speaker 9: making their alcohol money or not, because I'm not getting
• 33:12
  Speaker 9: a part of it, and I'm already paying them some
• 33:13
  Speaker 9: type of rent, so they're already getting stuff.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: Donnie, I'm with Aaron on this one. I mean, I
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: certainly have some buildings where we participate on the F
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: and B side, but even then when we participate, it's
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: usually at a small level and it's more or less
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: gravy at that point. Obviously, there's other rebates that we're
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: looking for, that we're counting on other revenue streams, but
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: the bar is really not that important to us. And really,
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day, sometimes it comes down
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: to the old fashioned we need to sell tickets to
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: make money, never a true sentences vid said by a
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: concert promoter.
• 33:50
  Speaker 7: One of the questions that Donnie actually brought up as
• 33:52
  Speaker 7: a topic earlier was the amount of micromanaging we're seeing
• 33:56
  Speaker 7: on the baby shows from the management teams that are
• 33:59
  Speaker 7: developing the and how they want to approve every little
• 34:02
  Speaker 7: thing and they don't leave room for the locals. And
• 34:05
  Speaker 7: I imagine this really affects a lot of the shows
• 34:08
  Speaker 7: that Brian Nate and Stephen book. In particular, having a
• 34:12
  Speaker 7: local on one of those shows can really change the day.
• 34:15
  Speaker 7: And when they're not leaving a room for you to
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: put people in front of their crowd. And they booked
• 34:19
  Speaker 7: three or four bands on a bill that no one's yeah,
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: they're all drying next to nothing. It's got to really
• 34:25
  Speaker 7: make a challenge for you guys.
• 34:26
  Speaker 9: Absolutely, oh no.
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: That was so much of what I built my business
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: on was being able to take those baby bands and
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: make it into a great show and get the right
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: locals on it. So many of those shows, I mean,
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: I'm booking less of them and we're saying no more
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: because we can't do that. And you know, these shows,
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: you can have a bill that's more than two bands
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: on a Tuesday night when you're selling less than two
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: hundred tickets. And the one that I hate the most
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: is let's wait and see. Let's wait and see, and
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: you're like, well, three months out when we announced, I
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: could have got a great local on that that's gonna
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: add fifty percent more tickets and help promote and make
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: it cool. And then when we have them, literally last week,
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: we've been screaming about a local, the show's gonna bomb.
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: We're not going to gross the Guarantee band on their
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: first tour two band bill on a Sunday. We've been
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: screaming the entire way, let us do something. The show's
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: on a Sunday. They came to us on Thursday and
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: said which local is gonna add the most? And we went,
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: we're not even wasting our time. You want us in
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: two days to add a local that's going to impact
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: this show. I don't even know which of these bands
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: we pitched three months ago are available now. But we waited,
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: and then of course you can tell like never once
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: as a manager said let's wait and see, and it
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: actually worked out where it wasn't needed, right, Like you
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: either know it is if it's sold out, I don't care.
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: You know, it's like, okay, I get it, your show
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: sold out, we don't need it. But when it has
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: heard Edward that question that was that was your question, right, Stephen?
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: That yeah. But it's it's like, how are we being
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: so micromanaged and precious on some of these small acts.
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: And it's like the weird flukeer playing with a that's
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: a different genre, playing with the right audience, And you
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: get these managers that are saying, you know, they don't
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: have enough monthly listeners on Spotify, and it's like I'm
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: talking about the college band in Phoenix, like, yeah, they've
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: got like two demos out and don't have any monthly listeners.
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: But guess what, they're two hundred monthly listeners. I'm going
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: to get seventy five percent of them to come see
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: their show because the only people that listen are their
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: prep you know, and that's going to help. And it's
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: just so hard to make these tiny shows work when
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: it's all micromanaged from people in a different state.
• 36:29
  Speaker 9: Oh yeah, I mean it's it's to the point where,
• 36:32
  Speaker 9: like Steven, I'm sure you've passed on shows when they
• 36:34
  Speaker 9: when they're just like, I'm not going to do this
• 36:36
  Speaker 9: show if if it's going to take three like a
• 36:38
  Speaker 9: month for you to confirm a local band on the show,
• 36:41
  Speaker 9: because it doesn't make any sense. I mean, we're the promoters.
• 36:44
  Speaker 9: We know not to put a metal band with a
• 36:46
  Speaker 9: country band or a country band with an email band
• 36:50
  Speaker 9: or whatever. I said. We know what we're doing. Don't
• 36:52
  Speaker 9: think we don't. I mean maybe some people out there
• 36:54
  Speaker 9: who don't know what they're doing have done that and
• 36:56
  Speaker 9: it makes them look stupid. But I mean we're seasoned promoters.
• 37:00
  Speaker 9: We know it's going to work with the show more
• 37:03
  Speaker 9: show than not, and we know the bands that are
• 37:05
  Speaker 9: going to sell the tickets, so just let us do it.
• 37:07
  Speaker 9: But I mean, I fought with somebody I can't remember
• 37:10
  Speaker 9: who it was, like about three weeks ago. I'm like,
• 37:12
  Speaker 9: it's a it's a you know, favor show I'm doing.
• 37:15
  Speaker 9: It's probably going to do like one hundred people or whatever.
• 37:17
  Speaker 9: We have to approve the local. I'm like, this is ridiculous.
• 37:20
  Speaker 9: Why then do it quickly because I'm not waiting a
• 37:22
  Speaker 9: month because it just makes no sense for me financially.
• 37:25
  Speaker 9: And these bands don't care, you know what I mean,
• 37:28
  Speaker 9: Like these baby bans. I don't know if it's like
• 37:30
  Speaker 9: an ego thing or what, but it's like, let us
• 37:32
  Speaker 9: do our job.
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: We also had one that's thinking about the venue not
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: that long A country act never ended up approving locals.
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: I've got a forty five minute show on a Friday
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: night in the bar. The bar's asking because they never
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: approved a local. The band didn't even play an hour
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: set because they don't have an hour set. And I'm
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: explaining to the venue why their Friday night had forty
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: five minutes of music because the agent wanted to approve
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: us filling the night, and you know, and then we
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: had this awkward band didn't want to go on afterdoors
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: because there weren't people in the room yet, and it
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: was just like a total awkward situation, and it was like,
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: what did we accomplish here?
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 38:10
  Speaker 10: The other thing I just wanted to add is I've
• 38:12
  Speaker 10: never seen locals be undervalued in the way they have
• 38:16
  Speaker 10: been in the last couple of years, where a tour
• 38:19
  Speaker 10: might be doing poorly and they want to add a local,
• 38:22
  Speaker 10: but they expect the band to play for free or
• 38:25
  Speaker 10: or you know, for fifty to one hundred dollars, but
• 38:28
  Speaker 10: they still have the expectation that it's a band with
• 38:31
  Speaker 10: a draw.
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: So we have a couple other questions that you guys sent,
• 38:34
  Speaker 7: and I want to kind of hit on them. The
• 38:36
  Speaker 7: question was, how have things changed that you first started promoting.
• 38:40
  Speaker 7: What's the biggest change you've seen in the marketplace?
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: Nate.
• 38:44
  Speaker 10: Let's start with you ship, I mean top to bottom.
• 38:48
  Speaker 10: When I started, it was paper tickets at record stores
• 38:53
  Speaker 10: you faxed and offer and when you just mentioned micromanaging,
• 38:57
  Speaker 10: I remember the days when you confirmed the show and
• 38:59
  Speaker 10: it was kind of yours. You just you market it
• 39:02
  Speaker 10: the way you wanted. You got an eight by ten
• 39:03
  Speaker 10: in the mail, You figured out when the show was
• 39:06
  Speaker 10: going to go on sale, and there was. There was
• 39:09
  Speaker 10: a lot less back and forth in control from the
• 39:11
  Speaker 10: from the agent or management team as to how you
• 39:15
  Speaker 10: dealt with your show the moment it was confirmed with
• 39:17
  Speaker 10: the contract we assigned. Obviously, Now it couldn't be farther
• 39:22
  Speaker 10: from that world where it seems like things are managed
• 39:25
  Speaker 10: to death.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: Use our assets.
• 39:27
  Speaker 10: It's not just the asssses. It's like you know, I mean,
• 39:30
  Speaker 10: it's and again it's it's valued. It just seems like
• 39:33
  Speaker 10: there maybe could be a happy medium, mister Zimmerman.
• 39:37
  Speaker 8: I mean, when I started, there was a promoter profit
• 39:39
  Speaker 8: in every single deal that these were plus deals.
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: There was.
• 39:44
  Speaker 8: I mean, when was the last time you did a
• 39:46
  Speaker 8: plus with a promoter profit in? I mean, I think
• 39:49
  Speaker 8: the dealers have changed drastically from plus to versus. What's documented,
• 39:55
  Speaker 8: what's not? Are we doing door deals now? And what
• 39:57
  Speaker 8: percentage of the door deals, what expenses are even included
• 40:01
  Speaker 8: in those? I mean, you know, I ask these days
• 40:04
  Speaker 8: to just pay for everything, and they still want, you know,
• 40:07
  Speaker 8: the laying share, whether you're actually promoting the show or not.
• 40:10
  Speaker 8: From a marketing perspective, I think every deal these days
• 40:13
  Speaker 8: is unique, and I think every deal is looked at
• 40:16
  Speaker 8: in a microscope, whether it's a big act or a
• 40:18
  Speaker 8: small act, and that everyone is looking for, you know,
• 40:22
  Speaker 8: the best payday they can get in every situation. For
• 40:24
  Speaker 8: the most part, I think there was a lot more
• 40:27
  Speaker 8: development back in the day, and so I think now
• 40:31
  Speaker 8: it's it's you know, a bit more of what can
• 40:34
  Speaker 8: what can we get on this run? But that's the life,
• 40:37
  Speaker 8: I think, you know, back to what you guys were
• 40:39
  Speaker 8: talking about earlier about developing, I think we've also seen
• 40:42
  Speaker 8: a lot more artists skip steps. I mean, you get
• 40:45
  Speaker 8: one big you know, TikTok hit and you never even
• 40:49
  Speaker 8: played that three hundred or thousand, and now all of
• 40:51
  Speaker 8: a sudden you're thrust into you know, these big clubs
• 40:54
  Speaker 8: arenas shed tours and you never even did the club
• 40:58
  Speaker 8: date at all. You know, everything kind of been so
• 41:00
  Speaker 8: much faster now because of the well internet worldwide, you know,
• 41:05
  Speaker 8: exposure to everything.
• 41:06
  Speaker 7: Well, it changes some stuff too, Right, there's a very
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: Malcolm Glagbell ten thousand hours involved with being able to
• 41:12
  Speaker 7: handle an arena stage. And when you put an act
• 41:15
  Speaker 7: up there that doesn't have time to develop in the clubs,
• 41:18
  Speaker 7: in the ballrooms, into the theaters before they take that
• 41:21
  Speaker 7: arena stage or god forbid the festival headline stage. There
• 41:24
  Speaker 7: can be a real route awakening in comparison to a
• 41:27
  Speaker 7: seasoned headliner and the difference in that set and the
• 41:30
  Speaker 7: sustainability to see what an act like that had come up,
• 41:34
  Speaker 7: Like Somber is having a moment right now, Benson Boone.
• 41:38
  Speaker 7: You know, like these guys have great live shows, but
• 41:40
  Speaker 7: they've developed that in the smaller venues to become what
• 41:44
  Speaker 7: they are now. Clearly the Hives can't go out and
• 41:46
  Speaker 7: do what they did live wise in a show in
• 41:49
  Speaker 7: a room without having all those shows behind them to
• 41:52
  Speaker 7: have that kind of synergy with the audience because they're connected.
• 41:55
  Speaker 7: If you're jumping straight to those arenas without that experience,
• 42:00
  Speaker 7: there is definitely something lost as far as the value
• 42:03
  Speaker 7: of knowing how to control an audience. Agreed, How much
• 42:06
  Speaker 7: is a streaming issue? How many streams the band is
• 42:09
  Speaker 7: getting in a month? Is it seems like it's coming
• 42:11
  Speaker 7: up more and more? How much does does that affect
• 42:13
  Speaker 7: how you're buying and how often do you hear that
• 42:15
  Speaker 7: from an agent or a manager?
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: Now, I think it totally depends on the type of
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: artists it is. And you know, for looking at an
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: older punk rock artist, I don't even look at it.
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: Alklind Trio's got bloss streaming numbers at best, and they're
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: going to sell us a shit ton of tickets and
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: we all know it. Yeah, you know, so like certain artists,
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: we don't look at it a lot. If that's kind
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: of the pitch is here's a buzzy band that as it.
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: But we just went up on sale with an artist
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: to just crossed a billion streams on their big single,
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: and our on sale was like fifty tickets. I think
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: that act is going to do really well. But they're
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: on their you know, first reel. They've been touring a
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: couple of years and they're on a you know, real
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: headline run in the three hundred caps, but that billion
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: streams is not. They haven't gone out and done the
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: legwork yet, you know, and now they have to go
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: do that and you can get to that billion streams,
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: like you said before, you've done the legwork on the road.
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: So what does it mean?
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: I don't know. Is there a metrics where does make sense?
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Though?
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: When you're buying a show. Is there a genre or
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: an act where you're like, oh, that's a thing.
• 43:14
  Speaker 8: I would say podcasts, you know, if you know podcasts
• 43:18
  Speaker 8: in YouTube and some of the non traditional product I
• 43:21
  Speaker 8: think family entertainment. I think a lot of those metrics
• 43:25
  Speaker 8: add up a little bit more. I think still the
• 43:28
  Speaker 8: I mean, for me, the key to you know, trying
• 43:30
  Speaker 8: to cut a good deal and everything is history.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: What have you done?
• 43:33
  Speaker 8: Where have you done it? That's still the best avenue.
• 43:37
  Speaker 8: I have to kind of judge what it's going to
• 43:38
  Speaker 8: do city over city.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: Okay, I want to ask how much if your business
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: is hampered by competing with ag Live Nation, meter Lander,
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: are the big guys affecting your business or are you
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: Is it more about getting the right act that the
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: right deal that you can make it work. Now, I
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: would say overall the bulk of my business, it really
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: I don't really get into the Live Nation EEG world.
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: But occasionally, you know, anytime I'm bidding on a show
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: at the Chicago Theater, usually there's an offer from Live
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: Nation or another large entity, and at that point I'm great.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, you're to market with JAM and they're still
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: in that market even though they're in Indie, they're still
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: one of the biggest promoters in the country. Sure, yeah, yeah,
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: I'm sure. I mean I don't ask an agent who
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: else has an offer, and they'll tell me if I
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: really want to pry. But overall, I just want to
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: find out it does somebody have an offer in and
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: if I can find out what that number is, even
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: more so that's more important to me than knowing who
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: the promoter is. At that point, I think, you know,
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: for the most part, with the secondary tertiary markets of
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: the world that we're in, I'm not competing against Live Nation,
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: EEG and other entities. I'm competing against other independent promoters.
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: I'm competing against building in some case. That's another thing
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: that is my pet peep these days is the venue,
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: the aggressive venues that are making offers on their own.
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, since when did you become my competition? So
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: promoters are.
• 45:14
  Speaker 7: For anybody else on that topic, guys are all great,
• 45:16
  Speaker 7: I mean even I mean.
• 45:18
  Speaker 10: I can say I can say that, you know, while
• 45:21
  Speaker 10: we're able to still compete in a level and get
• 45:23
  Speaker 10: the shows, obviously there's a lot of pressure on the
• 45:26
  Speaker 10: deals and things get very tight when you're going up
• 45:30
  Speaker 10: against Live Nation, particularly on the same shows. There's not
• 45:35
  Speaker 10: like an indie promoter discount, you know.
• 45:38
  Speaker 8: Eric, I would say, we try our very best to
• 45:41
  Speaker 8: work with Live Nation, eg Needlander, especially in our own o's.
• 45:45
  Speaker 8: I mean, all of our buildings are open. We want
• 45:48
  Speaker 8: to encourage relationships with all of those entities. I think
• 45:52
  Speaker 8: we've all seen the tour deal become more relevant and
• 45:55
  Speaker 8: you know, happens more often, and you know when we
• 45:58
  Speaker 8: have a room that we need to apply talent and
• 46:00
  Speaker 8: keep things going. The best approach in my brain is
• 46:03
  Speaker 8: to build a relationship with all of them and work
• 46:06
  Speaker 8: with them, not against them.
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: It sounds like you're saying the money is the biggest
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: issue right now in the deal, and it's more about
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: the agent and the manager driving a really tough deal
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: across the board, and that's your obstacle, is cutting a
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: fair deal that you're going to be able to get through.
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: You guys all agree with that. It's not so much
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: who you're competing with, but being able to like walk
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: that margin of the deal the agent's making you take
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: to get the show and trying to make it work.
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: I think that's one of the biggest is an indies
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: is knowing when to say no, knowing when to sort
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: of bow out of it. And you know, not having
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: a big room. I don't have to set. You know,
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: once it gets out of my comfort zone, I have
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: no need to lose money on the go into a
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: situation I know I'm going to lead on and it's
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: like the politics of filling my room with the show
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: I'm going to lose. I'm not don't control any of
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: the bigger rooms, so I'm not trying to fill the
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: calendar if it doesn't make sense. And on some of
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: these shows, when it gets you know, if there's too
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: many good offers in the market, it's like better to
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: just walk away and not lose money to get the show.
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: You know, what can does that do? And so knowing
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: when it stops making sense or not letting someone you know,
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: if someone I know someone's just trying to use me
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: to beat up another offer, it's like I'm not going
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: to get in that game, you know, because there's no
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: winning either I annoy somebody else driving up their price,
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: or I lose money on the show like not worth it.
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: So knowing when to say no I'm at is like
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: so key to be surviving as an indie. You don't
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: have to win every deal. Getting in a bidding war
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: is just never good for anybody. That's good but for
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: the art is the agent perspective. I also like if
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: someone if an agent's going to go do the wrong
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: play in a situation that's wrong, but the money's right, well,
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: I'm not gonna you know, if you're competing where it's okay,
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: I'm in the nice room, that's the expensive room, and
• 47:57
  Speaker 5: you want me to compete with a room that's nowhere
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: or the quality, then yeah, you're getting what you pay for.
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: And if you're the agent's gonna go make a wrong decision,
• 48:05
  Speaker 5: I don't need to pay to convince them to do
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: the right decision if it doesn't make sense.
• 48:11
  Speaker 10: I think there's situations it's not even the wrong decision.
• 48:13
  Speaker 10: And I've definitely have artists that I've worked with since
• 48:16
  Speaker 10: the beginning of their career and you get the phone
• 48:19
  Speaker 10: call that it's like, hey, you know, I got sort
• 48:21
  Speaker 10: of bad news. You're not getting this show. But it's
• 48:24
  Speaker 10: because the fucking Home and Garden Show offered my artist
• 48:29
  Speaker 10: a quarter million dollars and we're gonna take it this time.
• 48:33
  Speaker 10: But don't worry. In eighteen months, we're gonna come back
• 48:35
  Speaker 10: and figure out what the next play is with you.
• 48:37
  Speaker 10: And at that point, you're you know, you feel happy
• 48:40
  Speaker 10: for everybody. Go have a nice meal, guys, look forward
• 48:43
  Speaker 10: to the next phone call. Right. That's the kind of
• 48:45
  Speaker 10: relationship that you know, I'm hoping to have with the
• 48:49
  Speaker 10: with the bands, where where it's like they want to
• 48:51
  Speaker 10: work with us, they know we're the best partner in
• 48:53
  Speaker 10: the market, but also to be honest and say, hey,
• 48:56
  Speaker 10: sometimes there might be a lot of money sitting at
• 48:59
  Speaker 10: the end of the rainbow and it's worth grabbing. But
• 49:02
  Speaker 10: it's a diversion in knowing that you're going to be,
• 49:05
  Speaker 10: you know, around for the next step.
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: Does seem interesting that we've had to learn to become
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: very submissive in good sports about the casino offer coming
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: in as if the band make thirty five thousand dollars
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: on a date in the market when they should be
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: worth twenty and maybe they'll promote it, well, maybe they won't,
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: but like they're going to come back to us after
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: the casino either does well or fox it up, and
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: then we get it back, even though the casino certainly
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: wasn't there to help them through the market the first time. Like,
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: I know they're taking the money anyway, and they don't
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: give a fuck about what we think about that, But
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: like I do think it's interesting that we've we've become
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: so submissive on that process that we have no choice.
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: It's like, oh, they're taking the money at the casino.
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: Of course, even.
• 49:45
  Speaker 9: Some of these larger promoters are making casino type offers.
• 49:48
  Speaker 9: They're in some larger venues too, so we got to
• 49:51
  Speaker 9: deal with that too.
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: I think one is this, you know Nate talking about
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: being the good partner, is like you should never get
• 49:57
  Speaker 5: mad when the artist takes what's clearly the better off
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: for in the market. Like, if you can't provide the
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: best option, you should be getting it. And you know,
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: there's some of these, especially some of the indies, who
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: just want to cry every single time, and it's like, well,
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: prying every time does not mean that you make it
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: more likely that you get the next call. You know,
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: if there's a great festival offer one offer. You know,
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: weird situation if you've got to bring a show down
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: because they got a support slot, root for the banded,
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: be in for the long haul. And you know, if
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: you make it unpleasant every time you lose a show,
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: doesn't seem to be the best strategy to get the
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: next call.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: Agreed two questions before we go and one of them.
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: I'm really the second one. I'm really excited to hear
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: you guys have thought the first. Let's go around this
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: show real quick. Can you each you tell me how
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: many shows you're planning on doing this year you're pacing
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: to do. Let's start with Aaron, three.
• 50:44
  Speaker 8: Hundred shows for myself, and I think our company Goill
• 50:47
  Speaker 8: was three thousand or thirty five hundred this year maybe, okay, Donnie.
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: I mean we're a much smaller office. We'll do eighty
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: to maybe one hundred shows this year. Overhead is much
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: lower than Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. Always worked out Steven.
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: Probably between Rebel and So, I guess you probably do
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: somewhere around seven hundred shows, but for perspective, probably six
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: hundred of those will be five hundred or less tickets,
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: so large volume of small club shows, and probably one
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: hundred tickets that are one thousand plus cap.
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: But you bid it, you built it, you catered it,
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: you produced it, you settled it. Yeah, you put them
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: on stage, and you pay them the darkness. So being
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: arena or a club, you went through all the steps.
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: Some of those smaller shows are more work than the
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: bigger ones.
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they are Brian, how many you do a shit
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: shows every week? Announced? Like seven thousand shows?
• 51:39
  Speaker 9: That's that many, but probably between seven fifty eight fifty,
• 51:44
  Speaker 9: you know, and that's from smaller clubs up to amphitheater,
• 51:49
  Speaker 9: not large ampathe or smaller ampatheaters and some arenas in
• 51:52
  Speaker 9: different markets.
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: Do you do an eight hundred shows with how many
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: people on your team?
• 51:55
  Speaker 9: There are about six of us Loucks snipp include product
• 52:01
  Speaker 9: I do have production people that I hire separately, but
• 52:03
  Speaker 9: for the most part, marketing and ticketing and administrative staff
• 52:07
  Speaker 9: and stuff like that. Yeah, that's that's all of this.
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: Okay, Nate? How many shows are you buying? And how
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: many shows will you guys? As first avenue deal?
• 52:14
  Speaker 10: I mean, it's kind of gets to be in a
• 52:16
  Speaker 10: gray area as to how many I buy. They get
• 52:20
  Speaker 10: you and me on.
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: Your kind of alley oop a bunch of stuff, right.
• 52:23
  Speaker 10: Yeah, we sit right next to one another, and so
• 52:26
  Speaker 10: it's kind of difficult as a company. We'll do somewhere
• 52:30
  Speaker 10: north of one thousand around you know, maybe eleven hundred
• 52:33
  Speaker 10: shows this year. One hundred and fifty of those contracts
• 52:36
  Speaker 10: will have my name on the top.
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: So there's not a lack of traffic and volume this
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: year in the business, there's plenty of shows going around.
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: You guys all have your hands on lots of shows.
• 52:46
  Speaker 10: To be clear, that's that it is tracking lower for
• 52:49
  Speaker 10: us though, so.
• 52:51
  Speaker 8: I would agree with that well, if we're seeing or
• 52:54
  Speaker 8: trying to buy buy volume. Similarly, I think that there
• 52:58
  Speaker 8: is a bit of a thin touring cycle right now,
• 53:02
  Speaker 8: especially this year.
• 53:04
  Speaker 10: We're seeing a lot like almost two I'm worried about
• 53:08
  Speaker 10: the amount of traffic that we're looking at for mid
• 53:12
  Speaker 10: September to mid November, but we've started off pretty pretty slow.
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: I've defined the concept of what is an independent promoter
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: by who's on the call today. What do each of
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: you think encompasses what an independent promoter is. Let's start
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: with you, Nate.
• 53:28
  Speaker 10: I mean number one, we're spending our own money and
• 53:34
  Speaker 10: and and we're on our own We need our venues
• 53:37
  Speaker 10: and our shows to be profitable. And there isn't another
• 53:40
  Speaker 10: division to look at to pick up the slack. If
• 53:45
  Speaker 10: you know, if our shows aren't profitable, we're out of business.
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: Steven, Yeah, I don't.
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: No, there's a different definition, and that SEMs a pretty
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: good one that works.
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: O Trusky, you got anything different you agree with that exactly.
• 53:57
  Speaker 9: No, it's pretty much exactly. I mean, you gotta I mean,
• 54:00
  Speaker 9: being a promoter is, but used to be where you
• 54:03
  Speaker 9: were creating, building the act and the bottom up and
• 54:06
  Speaker 9: taking them all the way to where you could take
• 54:08
  Speaker 9: them to. But that kind of changed a little bit now.
• 54:10
  Speaker 9: But yeah, pretty much exactly. And actually what exactly what
• 54:14
  Speaker 9: Nate said, I agree.
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: With Donnie Danny. I care about my shows. You know,
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: I care about my artists. I care about the relationships
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: that I have When my shows are losing money.
• 54:27
  Speaker 10: You know my.
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: Shows are losing money because you will probably hear it
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: from me, but you won't hear it from me necessarily
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: on a negative level. But I want help, you know,
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: I want you to help me market my show. We're
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: doing everything we can to make the show successful. And
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: I think overall, like when a tour Stiff's I have
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: the better dates on that tour, and that's because we
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: put a lot of effort into each show. That's the
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: definition of an independent promoter. Wait, do you think that
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: Live Nation buyers need EG buyers don't care about their
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: artists and their shows and the same I'm not saying
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: it like that. What I'm saying is I think that
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: the volume of a company like that, you know, when
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: you have so many shows to deal with, between the
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: buyers and the marketers and the production team, that when
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: a show is soft, it's a little bit easier for
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: you guys to move on. And again, going back to it,
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: it's my money, it's my money. It's not over until
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: the show plays out. So I think that, you know,
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: I put every ounce of effort into every single show
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: that we do to make it successful.
• 55:35
  Speaker 8: Erin I think the smaller volume comparatively to a live
• 55:39
  Speaker 8: nation or age I think makes us independent. But I
• 55:42
  Speaker 8: also think, at least at this point, the independence, at
• 55:45
  Speaker 8: least what I see at Gate fifty two is that
• 55:47
  Speaker 8: as it evolved into specialty and people that really know
• 55:52
  Speaker 8: their craft and know their genres and know their music,
• 55:56
  Speaker 8: and these are people that are just truly passionate about
• 55:59
  Speaker 8: a speci portion of this business. And that's not to
• 56:02
  Speaker 8: say that Live Nationary AG or these other buyers aren't,
• 56:06
  Speaker 8: but I think there we're able to be focused on
• 56:10
  Speaker 8: a slightly smaller scale compared to others, and I think
• 56:14
  Speaker 8: that really helps us as independence.
• 56:16
  Speaker 7: Aaron, if you're an independent, wouldn't aeg be an independent too,
• 56:20
  Speaker 7: because they're spending philip Anshoots money. It's one guy, just
• 56:25
  Speaker 7: like it's Dana's money. Wouldn't they still be an independent
• 56:28
  Speaker 7: based on that same criteria.
• 56:30
  Speaker 8: I would argue that we live, we work in a
• 56:33
  Speaker 8: business that has that, we have leve nation, we have AEG,
• 56:37
  Speaker 8: and then we have everybody else. I hear what you're saying,
• 56:41
  Speaker 8: but I still think the volume from a Gate fifty
• 56:44
  Speaker 8: two level to a AEG.
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: Level is not really apples to apples.
• 56:49
  Speaker 8: You know, we're not really close in the straight up
• 56:51
  Speaker 8: if you just looked at show counter straight volume, I
• 56:53
  Speaker 8: can't imagine we would be, you know, anywhere on the
• 56:56
  Speaker 8: same level as AEG.
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: So is that part of the definition that we have
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: men to that they're a global company and they're doing
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: business throughout the world.
• 57:03
  Speaker 8: Maybe yeah, not sure that. I mean, I don't know
• 57:06
  Speaker 8: if there's a true definition. I would tell you we
• 57:09
  Speaker 8: are not operating globally or nationally only. We are national,
• 57:12
  Speaker 8: but we've not gone outside of the US. And you know,
• 57:16
  Speaker 8: and because I think also we are too focused on
• 57:19
  Speaker 8: the regional and the second during the tertiary that I
• 57:23
  Speaker 8: think it it I think it lends itself to the
• 57:26
  Speaker 8: independent spirit.
• 57:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I actually uh spent during COVID when we first
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: started NEVA and I was head of the membership, spend
• 57:35
  Speaker 5: a lot of time trying to figure out a definition
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: for this that would work and exclude who we felt.
• 57:41
  Speaker 10: Needed to be excluded and include who.
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: We wanted to And it was really really difficult, and
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: you realize how many weird businesses and weird connections there
• 57:49
  Speaker 5: are in some of these companies to really defining that
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: was not as easy a task as you might think.
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: Why exclude anybody to be the independent? Like who is independent?
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: Who's an independent motor?
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: Why would I don't understand why NIVA would exclude anybody,
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: Like if you're building a force, why not why not
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: go in as strong as possible?
• 58:06
  Speaker 7: And I wouldn't have brought the question up, but you
• 58:08
  Speaker 7: mentioned it. So since you opened the door and you
• 58:10
  Speaker 7: were on that team.
• 58:12
  Speaker 9: I mean, I.
• 58:15
  Speaker 10: Have a little insight into this. And I remember before
• 58:18
  Speaker 10: there was a NIVA having a conversation with Dana after
• 58:21
  Speaker 10: the pandemic, and there was some White House council on
• 58:25
  Speaker 10: how to deal with or not even a council, there
• 58:28
  Speaker 10: was going to be a sit down meeting on how
• 58:30
  Speaker 10: to navigate the shutdown for the live music industry, and
• 58:35
  Speaker 10: I believe Live Nation and AEG were both invited to
• 58:38
  Speaker 10: be a part of the meeting, and there was nobody
• 58:41
  Speaker 10: representing the rest of us. And I know Dana's mentioned
• 58:45
  Speaker 10: right away, She's like, well, we need a seat at
• 58:47
  Speaker 10: this table, Like why are they Who's going to be
• 58:49
  Speaker 10: there representing all the rest of us? And at that
• 58:53
  Speaker 10: moment in time, there wasn't anybody. And then I have
• 58:56
  Speaker 10: no idea how it started. But a couple of weeks later,
• 58:58
  Speaker 10: I know NIVA was getting off the ground.
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: Does that sound risk to you? Yeah?
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, and answer your question more. When we were doing NIVA,
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: it was like trying to define the marketplace with the
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: specific goal of like the federal aid and knowing that
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: what sort of category you know, this isn't bars and restaurants.
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: So actually the hardest one was on the bottom end
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: of like what's a wine bar with a violin player
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: in the corner? Is that a music venue? And then
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: you know other categories that you know obviously publicly traded
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: companies in a different category of how are we defining
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: this to get that? You know what became save our stages,
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: making sure that we were defining that area in a
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: way that made sense and then also could be quantified
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: to like how much money does it need for that
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: specific area and so like that was why it was
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: like specific to needing to define that world in a
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: very concrete way or an abjective way.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: We've been out of COVID for about five years now.
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: You guys miss it all that free time.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 10: Have I mean there's stuff better. They canceling hundreds or
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 10: thousands of shows.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: I mean that was well, that was twenty twenty.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 9: Did I did drive in shows during COVID.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 10: Nice?
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 9: I was in Arizona.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: We didn't have COVID after like three months.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 10: So nice COVID.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: We miss it.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 7: So I want to thank all you guys for taking
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 7: time on this Saturday afternoon to talk to me about
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 7: business in the independent promoter world. Brian Druski, Stephen Chilton,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 7: Don Cromberg, Nate Kranz, Aaron Zimmerman. Thank you guys so
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 7: much for sharing your wisdom what's going on in your
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 7: business place. I really appreciate it. I think a lot
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 7: of good comes from these conversations, and I think it
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 7: really helps give a scope to what's going on out
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 7: there in the business and for nothing else, just so
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 7: live nation in ag you know what to steal from
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 7: you guys, Hey, look before we go, who do you
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 7: think is the most Type A of all of our
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 7: guests this week? They are all entrepreneurs, all quite established, but.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: Of all of them, who do you think is the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: most driven?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: Okay, I think that's kind of a loaded question, but
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: I will say this.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: I think they all have Type A parts about them,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: but I think like the largest percentage Type A. Yeah,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna do a coin toss between Aaron Zimmerman and
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: Steven Children. That's psycho Steve. When you get down in
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: the week, you start talking about Steve and some stuff,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: he's got a lot of Type A. There's some stuff
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: about Steve that's not Type A at all, but in
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: business I think he is and Zimmerman button up guy
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: type A. What do you think Dan?
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: I would say Erin's probably the most aggressive buyer of
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: the day is I think Brian Dreski is a close second.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: He does a lot of volume. And I don't know
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: that there's a show that plays the Twin Cities that
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: Nate doesn't have his fingerprints on these days, So it
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: really is a tough one. And I don't know that
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: Donnie knows the word pass. So yeah, it's it's a
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: coin flip there, but maybe maybe Aaron by a touch.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: It's a smitch, right like I feel like it's it's
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: it's done to that, you know.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he is aggressive. Mark Giger won the day when
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: he got his hands on Aaron Zeyman.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: No doubt.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 6: Wake up boys, Steiny and Luke, and then you should
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 6: probably question all your life choices. Promoter one O one one.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: All right, ladies and gentlemen, everyone to and thank you
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: so much for listening to this, the two hundred and
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: forty third episode of Promoter one on one A very
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: special thing to you for listening this special Thank you
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: to our wonderful guests, Don Kromberg, Aaron Zimmerman, Steve Childon,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: Brian Drusty, Nathan Krantz. Go check out support all the shows,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: Support independent music, support independent venues. Go check out the
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: NEVA Conference June seventh to tenth. If you liked what
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: you heard today, you can always shoot us a note
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: Steiny Promoter one on one dot net, check in with us,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: or you know, if you just want to miss us.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: If you miss us and just wanted to catch up
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: listen to you too.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: Owners just mentioned that, uh, we felt like the pendant
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: voices of talent buyers hadn't been represented for a while
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: and we wanted to give them access to our platform.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: So what we are just a monthly podcast, we decided
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: to drop an extra one. We hope you guys enjoy it.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 7: We know that you guys have been listening and it's
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 7: our little thank you to you. Thank you for listening.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 7: So this is an extra bonus episode and maybe from
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 7: time to time we'll sneak a couple more bonuses.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: Our May episode will feature Regional vice President of Live
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 5: Entertainment for ASM Global at Diamond Desert Arena and State
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: Farm Stadium, Ralph Marquetta.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: That'll be May twenty eighth and the last Thursday of
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: every month moving forward.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: In the meantime, we're rare seeing you sold out shows
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: for the month to come.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: Cheers. Call your mother, no one, no one, no one,