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Rugby Finals Week: URC & Super Rugby Predictions · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  Well, I think Michael is the expert on bulls and leans.
• 0:02
  You're biased.
• 0:03
  Look, mate, you weren't.
• 0:04
  I'm not juicy.
• 0:05
  How can I be biased?
• 0:07
  I think that if leans are played in their ability,
• 0:10
  I just think they'll have a little bit too much quality.
• 0:12
  What I've seen of the bulls in the last few weeks,
• 0:15
  just momentum, belief, even when they're behind.
• 0:18
  They like them to see them single, those Irish.
• 0:23
  The chiefs, they've been to these finals,
• 0:25
  they've been there a few times, but they haven't won them,
• 0:28
  which is, you know, a bit of a concern.
• 0:30
  I mean, if you're a new coach, you've got 18 months.
• 0:33
  So if you want to make changes, it should be now.
• 0:35
  Victor, do you expect the all blacks to look different
• 0:38
  under Dave Renny?
• 0:39
  I think so.
• 0:41
  And it will scare you.
• 0:43
  All blacks are always scary, yeah.
• 0:49
  Right, welcome to Rugby Rivals.
• 0:50
  We've got finals week, the big finals Super Rugby and the bulls
• 0:54
  and the guy with glasses, what's your name?
• 0:57
  It's the John Cohen.
• 0:58
  Can you, who's going to win?
• 1:00
  Here we go.
• 1:00
  We'll split it up.
• 1:01
  Bulls, lents, it.
• 1:03
  Me first, um, well, I think Michael is the expert on bulls and lents.
• 1:07
  You were biased.
• 1:08
  Okay.
• 1:09
  Okay.
• 1:09
  Like, mate, you weren't dizzy.
• 1:11
  How can I be biased?
• 1:14
  I look, I think, um, I think lents that have been a little bit flat,
• 1:19
  to be honest.
• 1:20
  In the last, you know, I think not winning that final
• 1:23
  has really shaken them a wee bit.
• 1:26
  So for me, um, and not that I'm a big scrum man, as you know, Victor,
• 1:31
  but I think the bulls scrum, if they can get in and, and really disrupt them early,
• 1:35
  I think they've got a good, a good shot at it.
• 1:38
  I think that if lents are played in their ability,
• 1:40
  I just think they'll have a little bit too much quality, um, in the backs,
• 1:46
  but I don't know how to pick this one.
• 1:49
  I'm going to leave that to Victor, actually.
• 1:50
  I make, make a pick.
• 1:52
  Lents down.
• 1:53
  You'll go.
• 1:56
  Yeah.
• 1:57
  Um, I think if you look at the guy, uh, and you don't look with your heart,
• 2:02
  lents, there must be the favorites going into it.
• 2:05
  Um, I mean, I've got a full international team, whether all black in.
• 2:09
  So, um, it should be tough, but, uh, what I've seen of the bulls in the last few weeks,
• 2:16
  just momentum, belief, even when they're behind,
• 2:19
  if you think how far they were behind the way from that, um,
• 2:23
  at Glasgow, uh, and how they came back, it's just unbelievable.
• 2:27
  So, Lents says, well, they struggled with teams that's really physical with them.
• 2:32
  If you think about that final, when Bordeaux came out and the forwards,
• 2:36
  just dominate them up front.
• 2:37
  So, yeah, I think if the bulls want to win, one win,
• 2:41
  first, this scrum is going to be so important,
• 2:43
  but I would like to see the bulls go today more or less well.
• 2:46
  I haven't used them all quite often, only five meters away.
• 2:49
  I would like to see them between the two ten meters lines as well,
• 2:53
  not going for the four men in Trump playing,
• 2:55
  rather go to the mall and go to the kicking game.
• 2:57
  Uh, I love it.
• 2:58
  I really like them to see them slangle those Irish and not give them a go at turnovers or so.
• 3:05
  So, um, yeah, we'll be interesting to see.
• 3:09
  So, this is, this is a balanced game plan.
• 3:10
  We'll scrum them and we'll move them.
• 3:13
  Yes, that's exactly.
• 3:14
  We'll kick into the back of the bull, up in the air, put them under pressure,
• 3:19
  get those turnovers, and then we can get those, uh,
• 3:23
  dangerous outside backs going.
• 3:26
  Good, to help with the mall.
• 3:28
  Huh?
• 3:29
  Yeah, you get the outside backs helping in the mall.
• 3:32
  Yeah.
• 3:32
  Yes, yeah, for sure.
• 3:34
  Hello.
• 3:34
  But I mean, if you look back at the Glasgow game,
• 3:38
  the bulls dominated and then they played two plays of line-outs,
• 3:42
  uh, between the two ten meters, they went for a four-man, went to the middle, turnover,
• 3:47
  Glasgow scored twice.
• 3:48
  So, I just think if you've got that up hand and you don't have to play, why do you want to play?
• 3:53
  Use your strings, uh, take a lot of energy out of the position and put them under pressure.
• 3:59
  Can you explain the people that might not know?
• 4:01
  Like, what, what makes you make different decisions at line-out time in terms of how many people
• 4:06
  you're going to put in there, like a four-man or a six-man five-man, why do you change the numbers?
• 4:11
  Yeah, I think firstly, I think when you get to the line-out, you need to win the balls.
• 4:15
  So, that always, uh, have an impact on your decision, but then if you're comfortable with all
• 4:22
  line-outs, I still believe if you want to ever go with your backs, you should go with a seven-man
• 4:26
  because there's more space.
• 4:28
  I don't enjoy the guys going to a four-man because especially with this rush to things,
• 4:32
  I mean, you're playing against Lins there.
• 4:34
  If you go with a four-man, there's no way you can get around them.
• 4:37
  They just, you can't get more than two pauses with the line-speed.
• 4:40
  So, I always prefer a seven-man.
• 4:43
  It's almost like a scrum where you've got eight guys in the line-out.
• 4:46
  So, why would you want to go?
• 4:47
  And I know there's a lot of teams, and especially when I helped Japan as well,
• 4:51
  that put out a guy in the back line when you go seven, so they'd have been into a six.
• 4:56
  I mean, then you've got the up-and to go for the more because they have one less in the
• 5:00
  mall. So, you always need to play.
• 5:02
  So, I prefer a longer line-out if you really want to attack.
• 5:06
  I do enjoy the five-man, if you want to do a more in a box kick,
• 5:10
  because you've got that extra forward chasing in the chase line.
• 5:14
  So, yeah, and then out of your own half, normally a four-man is pretty nice because
• 5:19
  it's easier line-out to win the confident patch,
• 5:23
  and then you've got the forwards to clean out the rack in the midfield,
• 5:26
  and you can set up a really nice chasing line.
• 5:28
  Did you get a jk?
• 5:30
  Yeah, often we used to, in the Japanese, start or even in the chase,
• 5:34
  sometimes when we might have been under a bit of pressure, we might go to a shorter line-out,
• 5:38
  just that might have a bit of a money ball and a five-man or a four-man,
• 5:42
  try and speed it up, try and change the game away, but I agree with
• 5:45
  I agree with Victor, I used to like trying to, you know,
• 5:49
  throwing to the back of the line-out and keeping the loose forwards tight in there,
• 5:53
  if you're going to have an attacking backplay is pretty cool. I mean, it's a high-risk ball,
• 5:58
  especially if you've got a really good line-out against you, but
• 6:01
  trying to a back pad, trying to keep the loose use involved, so you can give the backs at least
• 6:04
  a bit of one-on-ones always nice, because what's normally happening is you've got those loose
• 6:09
  forwards floating out there and annoying you in the backs. So, you know, I think one of the things
• 6:14
  that is not really used well enough is actually that dynamic more that where you actually get
• 6:21
  that little bit of a roll-on, and then you give it to the backs. It's the most effective attacking
• 6:25
  ball, but often the forwards won't do that, because they've got a bit of a roll-on, so I used to like
• 6:32
  trying to do that in our own half where you get maybe a little bit less focus on actually the
• 6:41
  mall, so they might not be as committed to defending it, so you get a little bit of a shunt on
• 6:46
  in your own half, and then get the ball with front foot. So, yeah, I mean, that's, that's what I
• 6:52
  agree with you. I'm especially in the midfield. That's why I like the mall between those 210-meter
• 6:57
  lines. You can go for it, and especially if you can get the ball more to the back of the line-out,
• 7:03
  because you open up that blind sight, they need to be in that line-out, and I mean, we scored more
• 7:09
  tries with the balls back in there with 3-3 at 9, on that short little blind sight where
• 7:14
  it's a dynamic mall, the ball is going for it, the moment that hooker bites in, the ball is at the
• 7:19
  back, 9 goes, pulls the wing, and your winger has gone. So, that's something we train for hours,
• 7:24
  it's almost having that dynamic mall, I mean, but when the 9 falls for the ball, you need to give
• 7:30
  it to him, because he's space-on-way to attack from, and then just maybe from the full line as well,
• 7:35
  especially maybe a little bit more in your own half, is the position you need to cover the backfield
• 7:40
  as well, so they need to have two guys back, so again, a lot of opportunities to get on the outside
• 7:47
  of the line. This is pretty technical too, Ricardo, but the most interesting thing for me,
• 7:51
  and I never played there right, but it used to intrigue me, just how missing even one line-out,
• 7:57
  one line-out, one bubble ball, what you want to, how a lot of your plans just go out the window,
• 8:02
  so that's why Victor will tell you, a line-out forward that's either very calm under pressure from a
• 8:08
  very young age, which is not very common, because the pressure to win your own ball is unbelievable,
• 8:14
  guys that it can actually change the plan on the run, on the football field, while keeping your
• 8:21
  attack plan in play is so much more complicated than you think. Victor, you lose a couple man
• 8:27
  and all plans go out the window. I just think, and I don't know, I'm working with a little bit
• 8:34
  Japan, I've worked with some of the other guys, but you face pretty much the same things every
• 8:40
  week these days, when it comes to line-outs, and I mean what you've said about that back ball,
• 8:44
  that's what you want to get to, if you want to have a full line-out or a six-man, you need to hit
• 8:48
  the middle back, you don't want to go to the front gate that loses him, because then as well,
• 8:52
  you could have gone for them all. I mean, in my days, I remember, in a lot of the time, I
• 8:57
  walked into the back and I always had three options, didn't really matter what type of defensive
• 9:03
  up against us, you could win that back ball, either just over the 15 or a little bit forward,
• 9:09
  little dummy or just with speed at the back as well. So, that's something I don't see,
• 9:15
  I think I was very fortunate to have a hooker like John Smith, Gary Burtar,
• 9:19
  Bezmock, to see that you'd really throw those back balls with speed as well. So,
• 9:24
  I think that's something that's been out of the window, and you want the teams to be able to force
• 9:30
  that back ball, because once you win that back ball, it's a lot of trouble for the defence.
• 9:35
  In the vacuum and out wipe, whatever you want to go. Just going back to Lens to JK,
• 9:41
  you both sort of picked them, but for a long time. I didn't pick them. I said they were favourites,
• 9:48
  but I think they're both full win. Well, that's basically saying that you think the Lens
• 9:52
  will win, because they're the favourites, because everyone else thinks they're good. Everyone else
• 9:55
  thinks so, I don't think so. Do you think Lens to are just holding on as a team, like they've
• 10:02
  been a dominant team for so long, but are there signs that they're aging out, or what are your thoughts
• 10:08
  on them? Look, you can't mess with their consistency, like, being on with these finals. The
• 10:16
  biggest problem is the doubt they will now have about finals. I don't think they'll have this
• 10:21
  doubt about the URC, but they're not winning those finals, really messes with your head,
• 10:27
  not dissimilar to the Chiefs. The Chiefs has lost the last couple of finals in Super Rugby
• 10:34
  and a semi-final losing to the Blues a few years ago. So you start questioning yourself under
• 10:40
  pressure, and that's not only you. What happens is your auntie, your auntie from cork rings you
• 10:47
  and says, why can't you win? It becomes this. You remember the All Blacks after 1987 until 2011,
• 10:55
  we couldn't win, and it just becomes this massive pressure on you. So I don't think they'll have
• 11:01
  that for this URC final, because I won it last year. But I don't know. I think one of the secrets
• 11:09
  to a side is making sure that you're moving guys on at the appropriate time. Not too difficult
• 11:17
  in New Zealand, because they run leaves way earlier than they should. But in Europe, you've got to
• 11:22
  make sure that you're bringing in the enthusiasm you're bringing in the young guys. There's guys there
• 11:28
  that probably, for me, would be a little bit tired of some of the semi-finals and finals. You've
• 11:35
  got guys that have been there before and resting them and getting making sure they'll get up for
• 11:40
  the final is probably the secret, some of those more experienced guys. What about a guy like James
• 11:46
  Lowe's obviously moving on. This is motivation, massive going to him and also for his teammates,
• 11:52
  you know, to send him out on a high. Yeah, exactly, but you can't. Those emotions are important,
• 11:58
  but you can't actually let them get in the way to be fair. I don't know what Victor thinks, but
• 12:02
  he would have been in plenty of games when you're celebrating not only your own stuff, but
• 12:06
  other people's stuff. You just can't make it part of the motivation. You've actually got to stick
• 12:10
  to what it is. The boys would love for them to win, but if you start thinking about that, you start
• 12:16
  forgetting about actually what you should be doing. Yeah, there's been more disappointments with big
• 12:22
  games like that, with big emotions and successes, so I'm with Jake on that way. I need to focus on
• 12:30
  what's important and the team. It's not about the individuals, so that's going to be important.
• 12:35
  I mean, there's lense team, if you look at them, there are teams that starting to change. I mean,
• 12:40
  a guy like Osborne coming in at 12, 10 with a game to go. Are they going for a little bit?
• 12:45
  Older guy, I have a game with Pentagon. So, Franjoe as well. I mean, the old Franjoe that
• 12:52
  probably two years ago, people saw us the best in the world who under pressure last year against
• 12:55
  the spring box. They'll be under pressure again. Will they play some of the youngsters to start?
• 13:01
  So, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see, but again for them, I mean, that 10 position,
• 13:08
  since 6th and has been not there, has been very difficult for them to fall there. I know,
• 13:13
  they want to pick this. That's one area that can be a problem, and I know, if they play
• 13:19
  pre-Nagass, it'll be a lot of big bulls players running to that channel. And obviously the thing is,
• 13:27
  one thing I need to say is, I mean, the other guy that can be very important this week is very
• 13:34
  little root. I mean, he's strained against dark menamblers, the fans so often. And I mean,
• 13:40
  those cross-kicks of him, I think that will be very important. He knows how to do it.
• 13:46
  Two, three years ago, when he played the first time against Leans, he was so successful with those
• 13:51
  kicks. So, you'll need him to come into that first receiver and attack that space with the boot as well.
• 13:59
  And JK, the super rugby finals have been decided now. So, you know, chiefs and hurricanes,
• 14:06
  probably the two form teams of the competition. Yeah, totally. I think they both deserve to be there.
• 14:11
  You know, talking about Leinster, the chiefs, you know, they've been to these finals. They've
• 14:17
  been there a few times, but they haven't won them, which is, you know, a bit of a concern. I think
• 14:23
  the hurricanes' physicality might just be the difference. I think they're both really good sides,
• 14:30
  both in form, got attacking potential right across the park. I think the all blacks in both sides,
• 14:39
  the all blacks will have to step up. I think it's going to be, I mean, it's a really,
• 14:44
  I've been excited about a final for a long time, but this is a big one, you know. And I think
• 14:48
  they're both showing, you don't normally see this type of form in the semi finals. Normally,
• 14:56
  it's, you know, it's like, oh, you know, 2018 or something like that instead of what 52 or whatever
• 15:02
  it was for both, you know. And I thought the blues for 40 minutes were sort of, you know, hanging
• 15:08
  in there and playing pretty well, answering the hurricanes. But then the second half just,
• 15:13
  you know, I thought the Cain showed that physicality. I mean, like, turnovers have been amazing.
• 15:19
  Dupes, he's been amazing, but right across the park. So I think the hurricanes are favourites
• 15:24
  to be fair, but I think it's going to be an amazing game, really exciting, really, really exciting
• 15:29
  final for for for for me, just because I think if they can, if they can unshacken themselves and
• 15:35
  not feel the pressure of the final victor, you know, often, often the pressure of a final can
• 15:40
  can take you away from how you've played all season. But if both teams play like they've been playing,
• 15:45
  it should be a really great game. You know, what I've seen so far from super rugby,
• 15:51
  from the first game, I saw the hurricanes bow. I thought this is definitely the team to beat.
• 15:55
  And it just felt like they were a step ahead of all the other teams. So,
• 16:00
  they're for me. I'll go all out for the hurricanes. And, you know, what I've seen so far this year
• 16:05
  that bang out standing right. And so, JK, the all black team, the first squad of the year is going
• 16:11
  to be named next week. Would you expect the bulk of the team to come from the chiefs in the
• 16:16
  hurricanes? Yep, definitely, definitely inform. You know, I think you'll get a core
• 16:24
  of experienced all blacks that will be, you know, picked, you know, your McKenzie's.
• 16:30
  I think locks are really interesting one. I think you'll see the locks from last year,
• 16:35
  Barrett's obviously interested. That might be a really interesting one. But yeah, I think there's
• 16:40
  a couple of guys that, for me, would have, would have really put their hands up. Obviously,
• 16:46
  loves part of that. But I think the way he's been playing is, is important. So, I think for me,
• 16:54
  you'll see a lot of those, well, you should see a lot of those two sides. I think that, I think what
• 16:58
  I'm thinking about is, what does Dave Rene got in mind? Not ideal for him coming back this late
• 17:05
  because he would have watched videos and stuff like that. But Victor will tell you, you know,
• 17:11
  one of the things that a good selector does, he'll go to the game and he won't watch the ball.
• 17:16
  And I challenge anyone to do this just for 10 minutes next time you're on a rugby. Just pick
• 17:20
  a player and just follow him. It's one of the hardest, most disciplined things you do, right?
• 17:25
  Because you sit there and you show used to watching the ball. So, really, it's about what Dave
• 17:30
  Rene has in mind. I don't think he'll be too expansive just because this is an 18 or less now.
• 17:38
  This is sort of a, you know, a 15-month plan. That's all we've got. You know, we've got massive rivals
• 17:43
  to, and then we've got to, then we've got to, you know, all the rest of this year. But really,
• 17:49
  it's about World Cup. So, I'm really intrigued. I don't know what Dave Rene will do. And I think
• 17:56
  that's the suspense. Last year, or the year before, when we saw Razor get in, we thought he might
• 18:02
  branch out of we, but he didn't. He was conservative. So, this is going to be a really interesting
• 18:07
  selection. But, yeah, I mean, you're winning, you're playing the semi-finals. Those two teams
• 18:11
  should be pretty dominant. And when you say dominant, Ricardo, it's normally the fringe players.
• 18:16
  Right. It's not the wrench players get in, you know.
• 18:19
  Yeah. So, who are those, who are those bulters? You know, are they going to come from the form teams?
• 18:24
  You know, but just, just, or Jacob, go, Rick, isn't it? I mean, if you're a new coach, you've got
• 18:30
  18 months. So, if you want to make changes, it should be now. I mean, and what will it help?
• 18:37
  If you go with a new coach, still the all the same players, same way of doing things,
• 18:42
  should indeed shake it up a bit, then put a few new faces in there.
• 18:47
  Yeah. In fact, I don't disagree with you. I think it puts, it puts everyone on notice. You
• 18:52
  know what it's like when a new coach comes in there. So, yeah, that's why I'm really intrigued.
• 18:57
  I think that he will. I think that he will have four or five players. There you go. Wow.
• 19:02
  You know, I think that he will. I think he'll, I think he'll go for players,
• 19:08
  um, you know, maybe bulters as Ricardo said, who they are. I don't know, but I think he will.
• 19:14
  Give me a name. Give me a couple of names. I wanted you to see a new team taking control that
• 19:22
  can say, um, then, okay, one guy's coming back, but the handful is back. So, listen, I can run this
• 19:28
  team. Yeah, I think love stepped into that space, are we bit Victor? Um, you know, I think back in
• 19:34
  the day, when, when, um, you know, probably when you played and, and a little less when I played,
• 19:42
  I don't think the 10 now can just be a bolter. I think it takes them a little bit longer
• 19:48
  to settle into that position. One thing that worries me a wee bit is, um, you know, what was seen
• 19:55
  with, you know, with Bowden is, you know, um, Bowden has played 15 as much as he played 10.
• 20:04
  Now what Rubin love was 15 and they've played him all season at 10. You know, if you want to run
• 20:09
  the all black side, you've got to play there. And I think Rubin didn't get his opportunity to
• 20:14
  play there last year. You know, what it would have been like with Sasha, you know, comes on the scene,
• 20:18
  does really well. And then, well, you know, actually, this is a bit harder than I thought, um,
• 20:23
  swap, done and swapped out while he's learning to, to control the football team because seeing
• 20:28
  all the flashy stuff is not what, you know, what you big men want up front, you want direction,
• 20:33
  you want guidance when we're under pressure, you want a good kicking game. So, um, I think Rubin loves
• 20:38
  really stepped into that space. And then obviously it's complicated with Moonga coming back because
• 20:45
  he's not available. So, um, which, I mean, I'd be, if I was, if I was Dave Rene, if he's available
• 20:52
  and he's in a rugby, he's told me to come back. I'll be getting him to play a club game and
• 20:56
  get him on the tour as quick as I can. So, yeah, I got my question. Give me, give me a couple of
• 21:01
  bolter names, give me some people to look out for. I think, I think, um, let another, the young,
• 21:08
  the young, um, German boy from, from Auckland might, might get there. I think he's got
• 21:13
  a signal. He's not, he's not, yeah, the seven. And also like the new, um, um, Blues, his name
• 21:19
  escapes in the blue. You can't just pick Blues players. You told me, you told me to pick
• 21:27
  what was your question? Pick a bolter. Yeah, pick a bolter. And we've already established that
• 21:33
  the hurricanes and the chiefs of the dominant teams and you go straight to Blues players.
• 21:37
  Yeah, because I think they would be incredible bolters, right? I think, um, you know,
• 21:43
  Dupesy Kerriffy's really on the fringe, but I think he's really put his hand up to go,
• 21:49
  um, I'm there. So, um, I'm more, who's not a bolter, but I think he's been pretty much on form.
• 21:55
  So a lot of the guys I'm talking about are not bolters, but they're starting to put their hands up
• 21:59
  for test starts because the extended squad and then what you do for your test team, Victor,
• 22:04
  is very different. It's often you can have a few bolters, but, but, uh, naming guys to start,
• 22:10
  their first test matches, very, very different. So the young guy from the Highlanders,
• 22:16
  but I'm talking about loose forwards actually, Victor, uh, actually Ricardo, which is not like me.
• 22:21
  No, well, I was going to say, Victor, do you expect the all blacks to look different under Dave
• 22:25
  Renny? I think so, I think they need to be new faces. I mean, if you see the same team 15
• 22:32
  combination, if you see the same loose forward combination, combination that's great players,
• 22:38
  but somehow it feels like it hasn't worked in the last year or two. Um, so I think you're going
• 22:44
  to see some new blood there. And the, and it will scare you. All blacks are always scary. Yeah.
• 22:56
  Yeah. That's exciting. I think the thing that, that, that excites me the most. I mean, and I was
• 23:00
  really, really excited two years ago. And unfortunately, you know, what's happens happened. And it's
• 23:06
  never nice. Um, you know, for, for a coach to be moved on, but the most exciting thing about when
• 23:11
  Razor come in was what he's going to do with the squad. And I'm exactly the same. Um, with Dave
• 23:16
  Renny, you know, what's he going to do? Is he going to take some risk? Are they going to be more
• 23:21
  bolters? But then I think the second question is, I, what's that first line up? Is he going to risk
• 23:27
  losing his first test match by playing and blading a few guys? I think that, that is real courage.
• 23:32
  That is real courage. What is going to do there? It should need to be brave. Um, I mean, we're going
• 23:38
  in now this weekend, bulls, no bulls, players available, uh, playing barbarians. And, and I think
• 23:45
  Razor is going to play like 521 guys, probably at least in that, um, essay 18. They might even be
• 23:52
  some of those 21 guys that gets a go against barbarians. So I think you need to be brave. But again,
• 23:59
  it's difficult. We always talk about South Africa being in such a good position. All blacks
• 24:05
  being in a bad, you guys only lost three games past year boys. So that's actually pretty good.
• 24:10
  So the team has done that bad. It's just they've lost, I think, two crucial games.
• 24:15
  It's a bit like, uh, this is real, it's a really interesting discussion. This Victor and,
• 24:19
  and you know, I think what people, people probably say that Razor is a great coach and he is,
• 24:26
  he is the best, right? But what people probably don't understand is the courage that it takes to
• 24:30
  change things in our game, you know, and he's done that, you know, picking a different test team
• 24:37
  every week. You wouldn't have done that three years ago, you know, um, you know, the bomb squad.
• 24:43
  As much as I bloody hate it, Victor, I hate the bomb squad. I actually hate it with passion,
• 24:48
  right? But it works, right? Most majority of the time it works. And having that courage, I think
• 24:54
  is really, really important. I think, you know, the thing that you said is important. What we
• 24:59
  probably do want to see from Dave Rene is that courage, um, and the public need to support that
• 25:06
  courage as well, you know? Um, so some of the risks that Russi has taken around some of those
• 25:12
  selections that he does, changing the test team every week, this week against the barbarians,
• 25:17
  you know, if you place five under 20 guys, you know, you learn a lot, but it also takes a lot of
• 25:22
  courage. So talking about courage, I mean, there's a lot of talk from the premiership, um, with
• 25:28
  Barth getting knocked out, not taking that drop goal of the crucial time, like just mauling,
• 25:33
  mauling, mauling, and not really setting up. Did you watch that game, Victor?
• 25:39
  I just watched the highlights. Of course, on a big-bath fence, I was shocked when I saw the result.
• 25:44
  I was, uh, netballed at the weekend, two of my daughter's black tournament. So how the go,
• 25:50
  how the go, dad, how the go. The little one came second and, uh, middle one, they came third,
• 25:57
  so that's really what, um, but yeah, what we were talking about, not netballed.
• 26:02
  And that's something, I mean, and I know people aren't even going for three points of penalties
• 26:10
  these days. Everyone's going for the seven or the five points because it's so difficult to keep
• 26:15
  teams out when they five, ten leaders away from your line, because either it's another penalty,
• 26:20
  dinner, yellow call, and then you actually score. Um, but that's something we would always
• 26:25
  strain going into semi-finals, finals as, are you playing minute-knife, always finish it almost
• 26:31
  with a drop goal? And I wonder, and it's very funny for me, a guy like you, Anson Hrona, I mean, he was
• 26:37
  in our, um, team when we did it every week. It's funny that you wouldn't have done that, prepared
• 26:44
  that, be ready for that, uh, to go for that drop goal. So yeah, we still need to do everything,
• 26:50
  although the game is changing, there's certain things that under pressure. I mean, we were in a
• 26:55
  quarter-final, World Cup, best-ten, drop goal, Mournay Stain, we're under the polls, we didn't go for it,
• 27:01
  lost the quarter-final against Australia. So, uh, those are things that you always need to
• 27:06
  bring your back, um, as a chick as well. I, uh, I still think that a drop kick should be dropped
• 27:11
  down to one point. Luckily, you're not making the rules. Yeah. There's some big news this week. Um,
• 27:21
  obviously, uh, Victor's influence and, and, and, you know, being such a well-regarded man in South
• 27:26
  Africa, we have a sponsor. We actually, yes, yeah, the perfect sponsor for you, uh, Victor,
• 27:34
  because it's something that's very culturally important.
• 27:37
  Yeah, I mean, um, it's part of the African's culture, watching rugby, having a little
• 27:42
  trippy-cent coke, uh, people having fun, uh, around brides, uh, just having a good time. And,
• 27:49
  I mean, also, Cliffriff, uh, being one of the big sponsors of the greatest rivalry to Eswell,
• 27:56
  now backing the podcast. So I think we're going to have a lot of fun. Uh, it was a nice,
• 28:01
  nice announcement this wall. Um, I mean, we had a little bit too, too many Cliffriff pieces as
• 28:06
  well, but, uh, yeah, it was fun. And I mean, a great company to work with. And I think we're going
• 28:13
  to get some nice content. It will be great if you guys get over here. And we're going to have a
• 28:18
  lot of fun. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 28:26
  yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, um, uh, can I, uh, can I, uh, can I, uh, can I call it cluppies?
• 28:47
  Like is that like, you know, when, uh, you know, when a, um, you know, when, uh, when a drink is
• 28:53
  gone into your culture, you know, it's got a neck bone. So I can call it clippies, clippies,
• 28:59
  that's the one thing clippies anger. You should mention that, um, the launch, because I'm going to
• 29:05
  finish the show with some footage, um, from the launch, um, and you have very talkative, uh,
• 29:12
  vector. I think that you, um, you really were supporting the sponsor in a, in a great way with,
• 29:18
  um, embracing their product. I was quite offended. I was quite offended, Ricardo,
• 29:22
  by the way, because I was the brunt of many, many jokes. And, and just as I was about to reply,
• 29:28
  sometimes I think Victor had had the wireless. So he'd just turn it off so that I'd fall off line.
• 29:33
  And then I was trying to get back on, get my answer in there with Victor, but he got me that day,
• 29:38
  for sure. I clipped with behind me. It's like the producers in France, when you play games,
• 29:45
  when there's a high heat, uh, by a Frenchman they can show it, uh, despite that position,
• 29:50
  they just keep showing it until the refs see it. So luckily I had the producer behind me, um,
• 29:56
  hey, and it's a South African proudly South African brand. I'm happy. Yeah, you had a good time though.
• 30:03
  We did have a good time. Not too late. I left the run about 4.30 in the afternoon. So luckily,
• 30:09
  early afternoon. Well, probably the best way to celebrate the end of the show and also celebrate
• 30:15
  our new partner and clip drift, um, let's, let's have a look at that launch and it was a great time
• 30:21
  and it was really good to see JK get so, so much abuse. So here is the highlights from the launch,
• 30:26
  we'll catch you next week on Robby Rivals. Anybody put them hands together? The greatest rivalry is
• 30:32
  coming to South Africa. And that is the rivals podcast led as Andrea mentioned a little earlier.
• 30:39
  But search on Kerwin, uh, Rick Salitzer as well as our favorite former springboard captain,
• 30:46
  Victor Matfield. So I wanted to introduce myself. So I'm not Victor Matfield anymore. Okay.
• 30:54
  Victor Matfield, the influencer, the podcast, uh, Robby Rivals. I need to have everybody for that.
• 31:01
  Yeah, sir. Broadening the horizons. Ah, I see they, they already, but, um, just a quick
• 31:06
  how Rackby Rivals started. So, uh, Sir John Kerwin always on the breakdown, uh, in New Zealand
• 31:13
  on Wednesday nights. And then we had side entry in South Africa, we are on every weekend. Um, so
• 31:22
  it's always so nice to look at Wednesday nights and of course, Sir John Kerwin very opinionated.
• 31:29
  Mm-hmm. He thinks he knows everything about Rackby it doesn't. Um, and then on Thursdays,
• 31:35
  I had a chance to ever go at him because I heard what he said. I could prepare. What they say
• 31:41
  in Africa and I'm sorry for my language is this lack of the cock as you mock for us.
• 31:48
  So I mean with the springboards, double look up champions, winning everything.
• 31:53
  It was always so nice to ever go. It's, uh, John Kerwin on their Thursdays. And he gave me a
• 31:58
  corner and says, Victor, we've got something going. Yeah. I mean, with the greatest Rivals,
• 32:03
  New Zealand, South Africa. Yeah. We've got the biggest respect for each other. And I think,
• 32:08
  when you talk about rivalry, I think respect must go with it. Um, I mean, I think in the next few
• 32:14
  weeks we're going to talk about, you know, Sir John Kerwin was the only all-black player that said
• 32:20
  he's not coming on the Cavalier tour back in the day because of certain beliefs he had. And I
• 32:26
  mean, he always stands up for what he believes in. And the show is amazing. And how we got to
• 32:32
  clipped with, of course. So Sir John Kerwin, it's not because of his Rackby because he wasn't
• 32:37
  good enough at Rackby. He's not like Richie McCall. We got knighted because he was a great Rackby
• 32:42
  player. You know, there's a lot of work on mental health and it's so important for him and he's
• 32:49
  supporting so many people. And so he always asked me, how do you recover? And he's into ice
• 32:55
  spots and everything. And the only thing for me that works is double clipped with premium and
• 33:00
  coke. Okay. So he's in coke. That was it. And he tried it. He went to Ireland. He's in between
• 33:09
  New Zealand and Italy. So he was there once and said, Victor, I'm going to try this brandy and
• 33:14
  coke of yours. He even got clipped with premium there. But the way through it is like small
• 33:20
  glass through the brandy, no ice, just topped it off with coke. And I made a video of how do you
• 33:27
  pull the premium and coke. And I showed him glass full of ice. Then the brandy goes in,
• 33:34
  then the coke comes. And I posted it. And I think within a month's time, we had over 3 million
• 33:40
  views of that video. And the one thing I did get wrong is especially the Africaners there from
• 33:46
  Pretoria, Boksberg, Petersburg, Polakwane, where I come from is you need to have the two
• 33:53
  fingers also stirring up. So, yeah. So that's where it came from. And it's so nice to have
• 34:00
  clipped with onboard. We're going to do 20 episodes with him. Fantastic. And I think this is a
• 34:06
  show that's so much fun. I mean, we bent it. It's so easy because look at the idiot with his white
• 34:12
  glasses there. And I mean, I think so. The African's hated him. Now he's one of the loved boys
• 34:18
  here in South Africa. And he's coming over for the rivals tour and we're going to have a lot of fun.
• 34:22
  So, John, what are you looking forward to in the rugby's greatest rivalry?
• 34:27
  Well, I'm not looking forward to seeing Victor every day. I think that's going to be a real pain in
• 34:31
  the butt. But for me, it's just a dream come true. You know, I was on one of the early tours. And
• 34:38
  one of the proudest things about my old black career is, you know, they talk about how many tests
• 34:43
  that we played. And I played 63, but I played 96 games. Didn't you play under the test?
• 34:49
  No, I didn't think the 96. I played 63 games. Not like you, mate. I'm not a legend like you. I'm just,
• 34:56
  I'm just, you know, I'm just, just, just an average old black. But the good thing is,
• 35:01
  I've actually ordered your glasses as well. So I'll be bringing those over with me. I think
• 35:06
  what when you think of South Africa old blacks, what is the game that stands out for you the most?
• 35:11
  Oh, 57, no. How can that stand out for you? That hurts. That hurts. That hurts quite a bit.
• 35:18
  It hurts quite a lot. I might not remember where I was, where the box was playing any other
• 35:22
  Asian. Yeah. But when they played the old blacks, I know where I was with who and what was happening.
• 35:28
  Yeah. So it's those moments, those emotions that triggers from this rivalry. It's that special
• 35:33
  that you get to know exactly where you were. And Oscar has not gone to say 57, though. Your
• 35:38
  your tops are the Africa old black game. I don't think I saw it. Look, Maurice is already like,
• 35:46
  going through the files. I think when was it, was it, was it in Donut Eden? When,
• 35:55
  Ricky, yeah, Ricky did the chip, the chip in the Eastwood, the try. And I think we're in one day
• 36:01
  in a couple of years. I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think that for me was was was one of my probably my
• 36:10
  biggest memories. Vic, for you, the standout game, maybe even as a leader. Yeah. I mean, that game
• 36:19
  I was fortunate to get in that game. I think the next year, 2009, going to Hamilton with beating
• 36:27
  in the old blacks twice in South Africa, then we had to beat him in Hamilton. I mean,
• 36:33
  all the big names that are rich in the core. So we, that whole week, we went in
• 36:40
  with Shadya. And he went over to New Zealand on the fighter. And a lot of the New Zealanders
• 36:46
  are like disrespectful because we weren't the whole week in Hamilton. And we spoke to
• 36:53
  him. We go a bit late because we can't be raining. Everything's okay. Let's start the gold
• 36:57
  coat, buy some gold. Have fun. And we only found this Friday. Yeah. So we arrived on the Friday
• 37:05
  in Hamilton, the mayor of Hamilton waiting for us at the airport. So the mayor waits for him
• 37:10
  like a booklet like this. Of everything you can do in Hamilton. And it's like, okay.
• 37:16
  May I give you that? So we win. Luckily, we won the game. Thank goodness. So we went into a
• 37:21
  press conference, Peter, like normally. He said, listen, guys, I really just want to say sorry.
• 37:29
  Another mayor is on Friday. And you asked me about, and he showed me what you can do.
• 37:35
  I found something else. It's not in the booklet. And even in the media, I was like, what's that?
• 37:41
  You can win the donations in Hamilton.
• 37:46
  That's my favourite moment. That sounds like I was in Australia. You said, JK, all this gloting
• 37:53
  that's happening this side. Hey, all this joy and happiness. What is your standouts,
• 37:58
  all black South Africa match? For me, really, it was the 92 tour, incredible time for us
• 38:05
  being part of history. You know, when you grow up as a kid in New Zealand, you want to play
• 38:09
  South Africa. That's who you want to play. And unfortunately, for a large period of my time,
• 38:14
  we couldn't play. And for me to be able to come back in 92, you know, some of the experiences we
• 38:20
  had. We had a barbecue with the Springbok team before the game, which was really cool. But
• 38:27
  that was really neat. We had a few, you know, we had a bit of time together. But the interesting
• 38:33
  thing also was that, you know, Mr Mandela was there with Mr Declarek and also our Prime Minister
• 38:40
  Jim Bolger. We're all just standing around having a bride. You know, to be to be part of history
• 38:45
  like that, but then get out on the sad day and just try and smash each other and, you know,
• 38:50
  getting together after games. And I just think that's the most important thing to get together
• 38:53
  afterwards. I mean, I do not like Victor, you know, as you can probably tell and he doesn't like
• 38:58
  me that much. But we love each other. We would like each other on the field, but we do love each
• 39:03
  other afterwards and it's all based on respect. So that's the beautiful thing about our game. And
• 39:07
  that's how we need to keep it. Gentlemen, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for
• 39:10
  joining us. JK, we're looking forward to seeing you here inside Africa. Congratulations on your
• 39:14
  partnership with Clip Drift and Long Long may continue.