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LAST KNOWN FOOTAGE OF NANCY GUTHRIE REVEAL KILLER ID? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Bombshell tonight, the last known footage of Nancy Guthrie. Does
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Speaker 1: it reveal the killer's ID? This as the Nancy Guthrie
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Speaker 1: killer's route revealed. Good evening, I Nancy Grace, this is
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Speaker 1: crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: She is eighty four years old.
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Speaker 3: Her health, her heart.
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Speaker 1: Is fracial in every hour and minute and second and
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Speaker 1: every long night has been agony since then. If she is.
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Speaker 3: Without any medicine, she needs it to survive. We need
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Speaker 3: your help.
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Speaker 1: What a difference a door dash, an uber, a delivery,
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Speaker 1: a lift can make? Do you remember in Brian Coburger's
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Speaker 1: prosecution after the murders of four beautiful University idahost students,
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Speaker 1: Because yeah.
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Speaker 3: You have to testify in which murder case?
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Speaker 4: College girl?
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, take that Coburger busted by the door dash
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Speaker 1: delivery woman to Joseph Scott Morgan, joining US Professor Forensics,
1:41
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, the author of Blood Beneath My Feet
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Speaker 1: on Amazon, star of a hit podcast, Bodybags of Joe
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. But for our purposes he is a death
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Speaker 1: investigator with over ten thousand investigations under his belt. Joe
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan do you remember in Coburger eye witness door
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Speaker 1: dash delivery person identifies coburger as being outside the murder
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Speaker 1: scene eleven twenty two King Road at the time of
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Speaker 1: the murders, four o'clock in the morning. Really busted and
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Speaker 1: now in you don't go ahead, No, I was gonna say,
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Speaker 1: I'm reflecting back right now.
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Speaker 5: You could have knocked me over with a feather when
2:29
Speaker 5: we got that footage, do you remember that? Because we
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Speaker 5: didn't know that that existed, and all of a sudden
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Speaker 5: and all it takes, Nancy, is just one little turn
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Speaker 5: of the screw right, something that we're not completely aware of,
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Speaker 5: and then all of a sudden boom, the narrative completely changes,
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Speaker 5: or at least the narrative is more clear. And I
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Speaker 5: think I think we might be headed down this road
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Speaker 5: with missus Guthrie. Nancy.
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Speaker 1: We have just learned that in the Celeste Revos case,
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Speaker 1: where D four V aka David Anthony Burke is now
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Speaker 1: charged in her murder and her dismemberment of this then
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Speaker 1: thirteen year old little girl. Don't show me him. I've
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Speaker 1: seen him enough. I don't care if I ever see
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Speaker 1: him again. The tesla, the tesla every Tesla has three
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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty degree visual unless it's been destroyed in
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Speaker 1: this case, see how valuable that is in the celestree
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Speaker 1: of us case. In this case, no one until a
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Speaker 1: few days ago has been looking at around around that
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Speaker 1: Uber delivery, that Uber drive. So what if anything can
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Speaker 1: we learn, Joe Scott Morgan.
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Speaker 5: Well, of certainly directionality, you know what route was taken,
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Speaker 5: and also you know, I you know, look as an
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Speaker 5: old investigator, I want to know as much as I
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Speaker 5: possibly can about the driver. You know that they have
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Speaker 5: an awareness of her, maybe who she is, this sort
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Speaker 5: of thing, where they followed in any way I think,
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Speaker 5: and so any kind of players that might be involved
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Speaker 5: in this peripheral Look, We'll take anything, right, will take
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Speaker 5: absolutely anything relative to the data that can be sourced.
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Speaker 5: Where did this individual go before, okay, he picked up
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Speaker 5: missus Guthrie. Where did he go after he picked up
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Speaker 5: missus Guthrie? I want to know everything about it in
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Speaker 5: granular detail, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: From what we can tell, there was intense planning of
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Speaker 1: the kidnapp of Missus Guthrie. So what we're getting at
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Speaker 1: is when he picked up Missus Guthrie to take her
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Speaker 1: to Annie's We have reason to believe the part was
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Speaker 1: already in the neighborhood, positioned waiting straight out to Cheryl
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Speaker 1: McCollum joining us Coldgason Cold Case Investigative Research Institute founder.
5:00
Speaker 1: He is also a crime scene investigator, and she is
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Speaker 1: the star of a hit podcast, Zone seven. She's the
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Speaker 1: author of a brand new book, Swans Don't Swim in
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Speaker 1: a Sewer, Solving the cold case of the Flint River
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Speaker 1: Killer's Daughter. Amazing book, by the way, cherylmccollum, thank you
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Speaker 1: for being with us.
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Speaker 3: We have reason to believe that.
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Speaker 1: You know, when you don't know a horse, Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 1: You look at his track record. We already know that
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Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie's kidnapper was there on January eleven. He's caught
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Speaker 1: on video and very likely there on previous occasions. You know,
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Speaker 1: he was in that neighborhood and poised with his accomplice
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Speaker 1: when Missus Guthrie was first picked up and taken to
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Speaker 1: Annie Guthries.
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Speaker 3: Many people believe he.
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Speaker 1: May have already gotten into her place before Missus Guthrie
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Speaker 1: returned home that night.
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Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, I want to go back to the
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Speaker 6: car first. When I first get to a and I
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Speaker 6: get out of my car. I take photographs up and
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Speaker 6: down the street. The reason is I don't know what
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Speaker 6: cars belong there and what don't. I don't know who
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Speaker 6: parts on the street normally, who's in a driveway, et cetera.
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Speaker 6: They can go back with that Tesla video and see
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Speaker 6: if there's somebody parked on the side of the road,
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Speaker 6: if there's somebody parked in a driveway that doesn't belong
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Speaker 6: This person, we know cased out her home before you
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Speaker 6: already mentioned the eleventh. We think you know again on
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Speaker 6: the twenty something, and then on the thirtieth, this person
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Speaker 6: tased it. They knew her you know, comings and goings.
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Speaker 6: They knew what she looked like on this night. They
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Speaker 6: I believe, were laying in wait. I think they know
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Speaker 6: exactly when she got home, and that's why you see
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Speaker 6: him going back to the front door after all the
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Speaker 6: lights are out and he thinks she's sound asleep.
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Speaker 1: Cheryl, Cheryl Cheryl Guys joining me in addition to Morgan,
7:00
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum is with us the star of Zone seven podcasts. Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: how many cases do you and I work together? In
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Speaker 1: Inner City Atlanta and Fulton County. I mean, can we
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Speaker 1: even count them? I can't.
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Speaker 6: Thousands, thousands, Yeah, you know, it's hard when I look
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Speaker 6: back to count the numbers.
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Speaker 1: One hundred, one hundred and fifty brand new felonies a
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Speaker 1: week times four that's a month times twelve times ten years.
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Speaker 1: Plus that's a lot of cases. So, Cheryl, is there
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Speaker 1: anything new under the sun? Defendants do the same thing
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Speaker 1: over and over and over. They can't help themselves. Like,
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Speaker 1: think about it, everybody listening right now. Do you brush
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Speaker 1: your teeth the same way at the same time every morning,
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Speaker 1: in the same order. Do you wash your clothes a
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Speaker 1: certain way? Do you get somewhere in your car and go,
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Speaker 1: oh my god, goodness, I don't even remember getting here.
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Speaker 1: I must have zoned out. People do the same things
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Speaker 1: over and.
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Speaker 3: Over in ober.
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Speaker 1: It's like it's muscle memory. So what I'm saying is, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: we know this guy the perp one of them anyway,
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Speaker 1: because I believe there had to be at least two involved.
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Speaker 1: We know this guy lay in wait before we know
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Speaker 1: he cases, say more than once, so he was very
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Speaker 1: high on preparation getting there ahead of time. What would
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Speaker 1: be any different this time? It's like every time a
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Speaker 1: dog sits down at circles three times, you know he
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Speaker 1: was in that neighborhood, which makes it very important to
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Speaker 1: review the video from the uber driver that picked up
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Speaker 1: missus Guthrie that night, and also, Cheryl McCollum, A lot
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Speaker 1: has been made about the daughter Annie Guthrie and brother
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Speaker 1: in law of Savannah Guthrie their car being impounded and
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Speaker 1: why it took so long? How do I know it
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Speaker 1: didn't have three sixteen and a half just like a tesla.
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Speaker 1: Remember what we learned in the Alex Murdock double murder
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Speaker 1: trial and the murders off his wife Maggie and son Paul.
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Speaker 3: His SUV was a big hawk and like a wagoneer
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Speaker 3: or something.
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Speaker 1: Revealed so much data when he took off from the
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Speaker 1: crime scene that night, scratching off when he slowed down
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Speaker 1: his vehicle, let the passenger window down electronically. Yes, the
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Speaker 1: black box of his car showed that threw out Maggie's
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Speaker 1: cell phone and then scratched off to hide out at
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Speaker 1: his mother's house.
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Speaker 3: Remember all that so much we can learn so Cheryl.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So while their vehicle was in impound, how do
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Speaker 1: I know they weren't looking at that.
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Speaker 7: They should have been.
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Speaker 6: They not only should be looking at any type of
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Speaker 6: data that could come for the car, whether it's video
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Speaker 6: or from the black box. Did that car move after
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Speaker 6: nine o'clock? They would know that. And that's why it's
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Speaker 6: critical when you're ruling people in and ruling them out,
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Speaker 6: go through all of it in order to truly rule
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Speaker 6: somebody out. The data from that phone, the data from
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Speaker 6: the car, it's going to tell the story. That's not
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Speaker 6: something they can manipulate the Uber driver the same way
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Speaker 6: if he were to put his phone on airplane mode.
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Speaker 7: That black box in that.
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Speaker 6: Car is still operational and still telling us whether it's
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Speaker 6: rolling forward in part, the trunk opens, the passenger door opens,
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Speaker 6: we will know all of it.
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Speaker 1: Back to you just got Morgan, You and I and
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Speaker 1: I believe Cheryl and Fitz were talking at the very
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Speaker 1: very beginning of Miss Guthrie went missing about the importance
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Speaker 1: the critical nature of vehicles in this case, and now
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Speaker 1: it's coming true.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, we absolutely were, because she's depended, i think, to
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Speaker 5: a great degree, upon people moving her about, and so
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Speaker 5: our vehicles are so tied to who, what our identity is,
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Speaker 5: and how we move about and also where we are
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Speaker 5: at any given time. So I think that this could
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Speaker 5: be one of the keys that's going to unlock this.
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Speaker 5: You know, we can talk about physical evidence all you
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Speaker 5: want to, but the big piece to this is her movement,
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Speaker 5: because that's essential Nancy. And one of the big questions
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Speaker 5: we've always had, how did she get into the house,
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Speaker 5: out of the house? Was she conveyed in any way?
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Speaker 5: What's being implied here? So all of the actors that
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Speaker 5: at least the police have revealed to this point are
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Speaker 5: going to play a role in this trying to create
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Speaker 5: this timeline and hopefully Nancy. And it's rather grim, but
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Speaker 5: where is she I think is a big part to
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Speaker 5: this as well. And that's the question that we all
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Speaker 5: want to know, right, we want to know who the
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Speaker 5: purp is, but we want to know where she is
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Speaker 5: in her current status. Nancy.
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Speaker 3: Well, again a track record.
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Speaker 1: How many cases have been busted by vehicles, and all
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Speaker 1: we need is one clue about the vehicle. I mean,
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Speaker 1: think it through. Let's take a look, just for the
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Speaker 1: fun of it, at Brian Coburger's white Alantra zipping around
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Speaker 1: the neighborhood, caught on one cam after the next, after
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Speaker 1: the next, and it wasn't just Brian Coburger. Do I
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Speaker 1: have to say Molly Tibbetts. As you will recall Cheryl
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Speaker 1: McCollum's star off Zone seven. Cheryl McCollum. In the Molly
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Speaker 1: Tibbitts case, the part was unknown to her. There was
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Speaker 1: no connection, which made the case even more difficult to crack.
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Speaker 1: It was like an eel and a haystack until video
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Speaker 1: emerged of the killer's car going back and forth and
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Speaker 1: back and forth, and then you see Molly Tibbitts come
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Speaker 1: into the frame and the person the purp, is talking
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Speaker 1: to her, trying to get her in the car.
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Speaker 3: She threatens to call nine to one one.
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Speaker 1: What was interesting about that vehicle It had distinct markings
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Speaker 1: along the side of it, and that is how the
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Speaker 1: killer was caught. And we've seen it play out over
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Speaker 1: and over again. In the case of the glam yoga
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Speaker 1: teacher Caitlin Armstrong, her suv. Let's take a look at
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Speaker 1: that was spotted going round and around and around the
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Speaker 1: murder scene just before a world class female dirt bike
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Speaker 1: racer was murdered over what a man because her boyfriend.
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Speaker 3: Kaitlyn Armstrong's boyfriend.
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Speaker 1: Had a Hamburger with the victim, So what's her logical
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Speaker 1: action kill her?
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Speaker 3: That video cracked the case.
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Speaker 1: So in this case, straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons, joining
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Speaker 1: us Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security, leading a team of
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Speaker 1: investigators around the world finding and extracting missing people. Is
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Speaker 1: also a former marine and Iraqi war that Brian this vehicle.
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Speaker 1: I understand that new eyes are now looking at video,
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Speaker 1: looking at video for parked cars, for people walking, not
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Speaker 1: just on the night of the abduction, but before that,
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Speaker 1: because we know the kidnapper was there ahead of time.
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Speaker 1: That is his mo modus operendi method of operation. So
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Speaker 1: what could the uber driver's car reveal, Depending on what
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Speaker 1: kind of car it is.
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Speaker 4: I think you and Joe Scott Morgan hit the nail
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Speaker 4: on the head just earlier there that what's in the
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Speaker 4: background in the periphery of that video. So on top
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Speaker 4: of establishing that missus Guthrie was coherent in a good
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Speaker 4: state while she was in that ride, there might be
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Speaker 4: other things that we can see. Was there a vehicle
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Speaker 4: spotted on a front facing camera? Some of these ubers
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Speaker 4: have not only rear facing passenger cameras, but they could
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Speaker 4: have front facing cameras as well operating at the same time.
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Speaker 4: And I'll add one piece here, there are still thousands
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Speaker 4: of hours of video collected from both public and private
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Speaker 4: sources that that review is ongoing in a very tedious effort.
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Speaker 4: But what they're focusing on is trying to find a
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Speaker 4: vehicle in the right space and right time that can
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Speaker 4: lead to be further investigated.
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Speaker 1: Now we know, moving beyond the uber driver that picked
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Speaker 1: up Nancy Guthrie that night, a lot has been made
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Speaker 1: to Joe Scott Morgan about Anny Guthrie and her husband's vehicle.
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Speaker 1: We know that it was a blue Honda CRV, and
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Speaker 1: Honda's CRV specifically do have NAB system depending on the
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Speaker 1: trim level you get on the car. Now, what does
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Speaker 1: that mean and what, if anything can we learn from that?
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Speaker 1: Because he, the son in law, brings Nancy home, and
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Speaker 1: you know, the killer was somewhere in the area when
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Speaker 1: she was brought home.
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Speaker 5: When we're thinking about her delivery back home, who exactly
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Speaker 5: is out there watching because Nancy, as I've held all along,
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Speaker 5: and I think this is kind of obvious, but this
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Speaker 5: is a targeted attack. They knew her, they knew who
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Speaker 5: she was, she knew, they knew her comings and goings.
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Speaker 5: And here's the thing. They knew that she's vulnerable, and
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Speaker 5: so they're going to spring whenever they see that her
16:57
Speaker 5: guard is down. We're talking about kind of late night.
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Speaker 5: You know, she's barely ambulatory, she's worn out, she's been
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Speaker 5: with her family. At this point in time, they know
17:10
Speaker 5: she's going to turn in for bed, Nancy, it's been
17:14
Speaker 5: a long day, right, and so they're observing, they're waiting,
17:18
Speaker 5: they're watching. Now what are they waiting for exactly? Because
17:22
Speaker 5: you know, that's a bigger question thinking about you know,
17:25
Speaker 5: why out of all the people in the world, would
17:27
Speaker 5: they want to go after this poor woman. Well, I
17:30
Speaker 5: mean I have my own thoughts about that relative to
17:33
Speaker 5: they know who her daughter is. I think everybody's going
17:36
Speaker 5: to know that's involved in this, and so they've targeted her, right,
17:41
Speaker 5: and so they're going to wait until they can spring
17:43
Speaker 5: the trap. And the question is where did they put
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Speaker 5: their vehicle to transport her off? And back to what
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Speaker 5: Brian had said, this idea of going through all of
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Speaker 5: this videography is going to be key to try to
17:59
Speaker 5: determine where another vehicle may have come and introduced themselves
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Speaker 5: or itself into this equation, this visual equation that we're
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Speaker 5: looking that we're trying to figure out at this point
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Speaker 5: in time, that's going to be critical. And look, i
18:13
Speaker 5: don't know who's looking at the video. I'm assuming it's
18:16
Speaker 5: probably the FEDS. I hope it's the FEDS, and that
18:20
Speaker 5: they're going to try to break this down as into
18:24
Speaker 5: the base elements, because nothing, and I mean nothing, Nancy,
18:28
Speaker 5: at this point in time is off the table. Everybody
18:31
Speaker 5: has to be considered. And you know, as my grandpa,
18:35
Speaker 5: you just say, let the hide come with the hair.
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Speaker 5: I don't care who it impacts relative to, relative to
18:41
Speaker 5: the evidence, relative to a vehicle. Check it out, go
18:45
Speaker 5: out there, look, look for these individuals. Put them up
18:49
Speaker 5: against a wall, talk to them about it. Let's find
18:51
Speaker 5: out why were you there during that night. I'm hoping
18:54
Speaker 5: that they've done it to this point. I'm hoping that
18:57
Speaker 5: they're continuing to do it because you have to press press,
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Speaker 5: press and any investigation. As we well know, time time
19:05
Speaker 5: is a precious commodity in this case.
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Speaker 1: So tonight, in addition to a re review of video
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Speaker 1: footage from not only that Uber driver, but from any
19:19
Speaker 1: Guthrie's vehicle to determine not just what was missus Guthrie wearing,
19:25
Speaker 1: what was her demeanor?
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Speaker 3: Did she look ill? Was she concerned?
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Speaker 1: Not just that looking for the vehicle, and that is
19:32
Speaker 1: going to require a lot of enhancement of.
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Speaker 3: The video, God willing the video still there.
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Speaker 1: We also learned that fresh eyes are reviewing the evidence
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Speaker 1: from the FEDS. Not only is that video being reviewed
19:48
Speaker 1: as we go to air, we learn that Annie Guthrie
19:52
Speaker 1: herself provided the route she believes the killer used that night.
19:59
Speaker 1: Let's take a look at us to Dave Matt crime
20:01
Speaker 1: Stori's investigative reporter, what is this? Where did it come from?
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Speaker 6: This?
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Speaker 8: Actually, Annie Guthrie was in a group chat online with
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Speaker 8: neighbors and sent this map to them at the beginning
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Speaker 8: of the investigation. Nancy, this was put out there early
20:17
Speaker 8: hoping that somebody might have seen something or had video along.
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Speaker 8: You see the blue map line there, that somebody along
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Speaker 8: that way could look through their video. I mean, this
20:28
Speaker 8: is really an incredible source of information from Annie Guthrie
20:32
Speaker 8: coming up with what she thought was the plan or
20:35
Speaker 8: the route rather taken by on the way home. So
20:41
Speaker 8: they're looking for anyone along this pathway. You know that
20:45
Speaker 8: might have seen something. It's curious when you really get
20:50
Speaker 8: into this, that she's marked different addresses along the way.
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Speaker 8: It's just an incredible piece of information that Annie Guthrie
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Speaker 8: offered to this group with neighbors talking about the area.
21:03
Speaker 1: You know, if this route is real, if this is
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Speaker 1: the route the killer took straight out to you. Cheryl
21:10
Speaker 1: McCollum joining US, crime scene investigator of the many years,
21:14
Speaker 1: author of a brand new book, and star of Zone seven.
21:17
Speaker 3: Okay, what do we do with it?
21:19
Speaker 1: This is the route that Annie Guthrie is allegedly convinced
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Speaker 1: the killer used.
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Speaker 3: It's full of evidence.
21:29
Speaker 7: Nancy.
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Speaker 6: When you're looking at this map and you see all
21:31
Speaker 6: the places, the nail salon, I mean, you've got tons
21:35
Speaker 6: of businesses, You've got residential areas. I would not number one.
21:39
Speaker 6: I would not limit my investigation to this map, but
21:42
Speaker 6: I would certainly go through it based on what her
21:45
Speaker 6: daughter believes could be a route. We are over eighty
21:49
Speaker 6: days into this thing, and we don't have a.
21:51
Speaker 7: Legitimate video of a vehicle.
21:54
Speaker 6: You've got to ask yourself, why how is that possible?
21:57
Speaker 6: With all of these intersections that we know have care us,
22:00
Speaker 6: the gas stations, the churches, the businesses. How do we
22:04
Speaker 6: not have a vehicle? Well, Nancy, as you know, I
22:08
Speaker 6: was out there, and here's what I can tell you.
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Speaker 7: At any given.
22:12
Speaker 6: Point, almost you could take a hard right or a
22:16
Speaker 6: hard left and cut through little parts of the desert.
22:19
Speaker 7: It's vast, it's open. You don't have to go through
22:23
Speaker 7: that intersection if you don't want to.
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Speaker 6: You can go right through parts of the land and
22:29
Speaker 6: avoid some of these places. So again, we know at
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Speaker 6: one twenty seven he's at the front door. We know
22:37
Speaker 6: by two twenty nine the app has disconnected.
22:42
Speaker 7: To her watch. We have a timetable.
22:46
Speaker 6: There's no way at this point after eighty days they
22:50
Speaker 6: can't pinpoint one mile away in that circumference and not
22:54
Speaker 6: catch him somehow. And I think of all the planning,
22:58
Speaker 6: he avoided those twms.
23:01
Speaker 1: You know, he avoided those cameras. Cheryl, I hear what
23:03
Speaker 1: you're saying, but it's also a non sequittary. Doesn't make
23:06
Speaker 1: sense if he did all that camera avoidance, and how
23:09
Speaker 1: come he didn't know the camera on her front porch.
23:11
Speaker 6: Word, I don't think he cared, because again, he's not
23:15
Speaker 6: in a hurry. He knows he's completely covered, he knows
23:18
Speaker 6: there's no connection to her.
23:20
Speaker 7: They don't know who he is. She doesn't know who
23:22
Speaker 7: he is.
23:23
Speaker 6: Again, after eighty days, we don't know who he is.
23:27
Speaker 6: So he didn't have a jammer, otherwise he wouldn't be
23:30
Speaker 6: acting like he did.
23:31
Speaker 7: I don't believe he had an accomplice.
23:33
Speaker 6: If he did, why is he the only one called
23:36
Speaker 6: on video over multiple days and multiple times?
23:39
Speaker 7: Why is he the only one we see dressed the.
23:42
Speaker 6: Same and the only thing that changes on the thirtieth
23:46
Speaker 6: he now has a weapon and a backpack.
23:48
Speaker 7: He came mission ready on that day.
23:51
Speaker 6: He was ready that day, the days before case and
23:55
Speaker 6: the joint laying out his plan.
23:57
Speaker 1: Let's look in depth at the route Annie Guthrie identified
24:03
Speaker 1: as the killer's route. Let's start with Lulu Walker Elementary
24:08
Speaker 1: School first out to you riv at s Gibbons.
24:11
Speaker 3: Take a look at that.
24:13
Speaker 1: You know they've got to have cameras on the map
24:16
Speaker 1: is to the far left. See that it's on the frontage.
24:22
Speaker 1: In other words, it faces the street. They have got
24:26
Speaker 1: to have cameras all over. What do you make of it?
24:31
Speaker 3: Yeah?
24:32
Speaker 4: In This map was provided by Annie Guthrie out to
24:36
Speaker 4: the public in an effort to generate video tips. Right
24:41
Speaker 4: to identify a route and say hey, any private residences
24:44
Speaker 4: and individuals that may have captured video, send this in
24:48
Speaker 4: right away. Now to your point about the elementary school,
24:51
Speaker 4: we've got public locations like a school library, and then
24:56
Speaker 4: you have private businesses along that route, pharmacies, as stations,
25:00
Speaker 4: things like that that undoubtedly captured video at that time.
25:05
Speaker 4: And I think we've talked a lot about a lot
25:08
Speaker 4: of the missteps here, getting this route information out was
25:11
Speaker 4: not one of them. This would help generate that those
25:15
Speaker 4: leads and help people to save that video before it expired.
25:20
Speaker 1: Scott, there is a plethora of information. Look at the
25:25
Speaker 1: elementary school.
25:26
Speaker 3: What do you see?
25:30
Speaker 5: Well, I can see four points or at least probably
25:33
Speaker 5: multiple more than four points of where cameras could be positioned,
25:39
Speaker 5: and it's going to have a field of visual perspective.
25:45
Speaker 5: Here's the thing. When you take a look at this
25:48
Speaker 5: and these cameras, if they're working and we've run into
25:52
Speaker 5: that before, have we not on each corner of the building,
25:56
Speaker 5: these cameras, they're field of view will be intersecting. Okay,
26:01
Speaker 5: So if you think about if you think about the
26:05
Speaker 5: vision that a camera has as it goes out, it
26:08
Speaker 5: kind of expands right, so each one of these points
26:12
Speaker 5: will intersect with the other. The cool thing about this
26:15
Speaker 5: from let's just say from the perspective of the school,
26:18
Speaker 5: that these things are going to be overlapping, all right,
26:22
Speaker 5: They're going to overlap, and you can catch If you
26:24
Speaker 5: can't catch it from one, you can catch it from
26:27
Speaker 5: the other. I'm talking about the color description of the vehicle.
26:31
Speaker 5: And in addition to that, you might be able to
26:34
Speaker 5: get a hit on a license plate relative to all
26:36
Speaker 5: of this, So these fields of view, if you will,
26:41
Speaker 5: are intersecting or overlapping of one another. And this is
26:45
Speaker 5: on obviously a main thoroughfare. Here we're talking about a school, right,
26:49
Speaker 5: so parents are coming and going, you know throughout the day,
26:53
Speaker 5: they're going to have a circle. You know that you
26:55
Speaker 5: have to pass through drop these kids off. And nowadays,
26:58
Speaker 5: with the way schools are, security is at the top
27:02
Speaker 5: of their list. So hopefully these cameras are all functioning.
27:05
Speaker 5: Hopefully they're sensitive enough to pick up on any critical data.
27:10
Speaker 1: I got something forty everybody Green Toes North Nel, Salon
27:13
Speaker 1: and massage. Take a look to the right of the building,
27:18
Speaker 1: right in front surveillance camera right in front Cheryl McCollum.
27:26
Speaker 6: That's the first thing that I saw, Nancy when you
27:28
Speaker 6: sent the picture. Not only is it right in the front,
27:32
Speaker 6: it would capture the parking lot and the roadway. So
27:35
Speaker 6: again my question becomes, why don't we have the car.
27:39
Speaker 6: If this is the route that he took, we would
27:41
Speaker 6: know the time that the app separated from the pacemaker,
27:47
Speaker 6: that the approximate time that he would be passing through there. Again,
27:51
Speaker 6: you're talking about two in the morning, two point thirty
27:54
Speaker 6: three am. There's not going to be that many vehicles.
27:57
Speaker 6: I don't understand how we don't already have it. My
28:01
Speaker 6: other question becomes, why does Annie Guthrie believe this is
28:06
Speaker 6: a route? And where does she think they were going?
28:09
Speaker 6: Those are key questions for me that I don't know
28:11
Speaker 6: the answer to yet. But again, you pass more cameras
28:16
Speaker 6: than you know every day. ATMs have cameras, buses have cameras.
28:21
Speaker 7: I mean, you're on camera more than you think you are.
28:24
Speaker 6: But after eighty something days, we don't have this guy.
28:29
Speaker 1: Tonight is the killer's route to Nancy Guthrie's home revealed?
28:35
Speaker 3: I got a big question to you, Brian. It's Gibbons.
28:37
Speaker 1: This information is coming from Savannah's sister Annie Guthrie reportedly
28:43
Speaker 1: missus Guthrie's daughter. Obviously, why is it so often that
28:47
Speaker 1: trained investigators discount civilian theories? And I always go back
28:52
Speaker 1: to an incredible example. It's the case of Gabby Petito.
28:58
Speaker 1: Gabby missing. Nobody knows where Gabby is. Her parents are distraught,
29:03
Speaker 1: they're frantic, they're in a panic. They can't get any
29:06
Speaker 1: cooperation from Brian Laundry's family, who's staying quiet. They know
29:10
Speaker 1: that Gabby Potito did not come back from a cross
29:12
Speaker 1: country trip with her fiance, Brian Laundry. They know she's missing.
29:17
Speaker 1: He's in her Ford transit.
29:18
Speaker 3: Where is she?
29:20
Speaker 1: If it had not been for civilian sluice that spot
29:25
Speaker 1: her Ford transit in the middle of dispersed camping, you
29:29
Speaker 1: know what that is.
29:30
Speaker 3: We're campers.
29:31
Speaker 1: It means there are no lights, there are no electric hookups,
29:35
Speaker 1: there's no porta potties, there's nothing. You're out there with
29:39
Speaker 1: the antelopes, you and the crickets. If they had not
29:43
Speaker 1: spotted her Ford transit and said, hey, that looks like
29:47
Speaker 1: Gabby Potito's transit, and they call police and not far
29:52
Speaker 1: from there, what was left of her.
29:54
Speaker 3: Remains were found.
29:56
Speaker 1: Why is it law enforcements so often discomp civilian tips
30:02
Speaker 1: like what Annie has provided.
30:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's an inherent bias with a number of investigators
30:12
Speaker 4: based on their experience. They look at somebody from the public,
30:16
Speaker 4: is from a family member, and they see a lot
30:18
Speaker 4: of emotion there and they immediately discount what's being said. Now,
30:22
Speaker 4: I'll call back right to the beginning of this investigation,
30:26
Speaker 4: Annie Guthrie was in the house telling investigators there is
30:30
Speaker 4: no chance that she wants that Missus Guthrie wandered off,
30:33
Speaker 4: that she's unable to walk more than fifty yards on
30:36
Speaker 4: her own power, and they were still, in the immediate
30:38
Speaker 4: sense treating it as an elderly person wandering off. So, hey,
30:44
Speaker 4: this comes to missed opportunities, right. No investigator and no
30:48
Speaker 4: investigative agency is going to be perfect. However, you know,
30:52
Speaker 4: there have been some big missteps here with not listening
30:56
Speaker 4: to the family and you know, might I say some
30:59
Speaker 4: of these from.
31:00
Speaker 1: The public, Cheryl Colem you are a crime scene investigator.
31:07
Speaker 1: In my cases that I prosecuted, those are the first
31:11
Speaker 1: people I listened to. It's the family and what input
31:14
Speaker 1: they have in the case here. For whatever reason, you're
31:17
Speaker 1: wondering why you know what? At some point, Cheryl, why
31:21
Speaker 1: ask why just accept that Annie Guthrie believes this is
31:25
Speaker 1: the route the killer took and run with it. Why
31:29
Speaker 1: is it law enforcement is so resistant to civilian or
31:32
Speaker 1: family input.
31:35
Speaker 7: I think in this case, you have to listen to her.
31:38
Speaker 7: Nothing else has panned out.
31:40
Speaker 6: And to me, you're at that scene, Nancy, if this
31:42
Speaker 6: was you and I stand it inside that house, we
31:45
Speaker 6: don't even have to listen to Annie.
31:47
Speaker 7: You're looking over there.
31:48
Speaker 6: Her eyeglasses are there, her cell phone is there, her
31:51
Speaker 6: arnades are there, her walker is there, her shoes are there.
31:54
Speaker 6: This woman didn't leave on her own. It's clear she
31:58
Speaker 6: did not. So if you've got her child telling you
32:02
Speaker 6: I think this is the route, you need to check
32:05
Speaker 6: it out.
32:05
Speaker 7: Anyway from her home.
32:08
Speaker 6: That driveway you can only go left for right once
32:11
Speaker 6: you get to a major intersection to the left and
32:14
Speaker 6: one to the right. At that point, if you do
32:18
Speaker 6: not have that killer's car on video, then pay attention
32:22
Speaker 6: to what her daughter's telling you. You got to check
32:24
Speaker 6: it out. You have to check out all routes. You
32:27
Speaker 6: have to check out all cameras. Even if we thought
32:30
Speaker 6: that the kidnapper went.
32:32
Speaker 7: To the right. I'm going to go to the.
32:34
Speaker 6: Houses to the left, because again, Nancy, he caged the joint.
32:38
Speaker 6: He looked at all the homes, he looked at where
32:41
Speaker 6: he could park and hide and then go to her
32:44
Speaker 6: house and be unseen the entire time.
32:47
Speaker 7: No neighbor again has produced the vehicle. We have him.
32:53
Speaker 7: He's been caught on camera more than once at the
32:55
Speaker 7: front door, but not from a neighbor.
32:59
Speaker 1: Take a look now at circa seventy nine salon. It
33:04
Speaker 1: has just been renovated. I'm going to show you now
33:08
Speaker 1: the before shot. Before it was renovated, it was called
33:12
Speaker 1: Chantilly Tea Room and it was transitioned into circa seventy nine.
33:19
Speaker 3: To Dave Matt.
33:20
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, as we're taking a look at
33:24
Speaker 1: the circa seventy nine salon formerly Shantilly Tea Room, the
33:28
Speaker 1: fact that it was renovated is important.
33:30
Speaker 3: I'm going to get to that.
33:31
Speaker 1: You heard Cheryl McCollums say, why did any think this
33:34
Speaker 1: is the route?
33:35
Speaker 4: You know?
33:35
Speaker 7: What?
33:36
Speaker 3: Why? Ask why? Again? She thinks it's the route based
33:39
Speaker 3: on what she knows.
33:41
Speaker 1: So I'm running with it, and I'm not just looking
33:44
Speaker 1: for the perp. I'm looking for his vehicle, and not
33:48
Speaker 1: just the day of the kidnapping, other days like January eleven.
33:53
Speaker 3: So why do we believe if we know why, did.
33:57
Speaker 1: Annie choose this route as the like the killer took Nancy.
34:03
Speaker 3: We don't know specifically why.
34:05
Speaker 8: But this was Annie Guthrie in the first days of
34:09
Speaker 8: the investigation, and she's trying to help her mom is missing.
34:13
Speaker 8: You know, she's in a panic mode of helping. She's
34:16
Speaker 8: not getting any feedback leading her to believe that she's
34:18
Speaker 8: getting the results she's after, which is where's my mom?
34:21
Speaker 8: So she actually volunteers here's where because you know, she
34:25
Speaker 8: lives in the area. Annie Guthrie and Tom also don't
34:28
Speaker 8: live that far from Nancy Guthrie's home, and so she
34:31
Speaker 8: knows all of the routes. She knows the roads that
34:33
Speaker 8: people go and drive on, and that's why she put
34:37
Speaker 8: it out there. And I agree with you more than
34:40
Speaker 8: just a joke, blow citizen, you know calling this in.
34:43
Speaker 8: This is the daughter of the victim, and she's putting
34:47
Speaker 8: this out there as a possibility. Now, this is a
34:50
Speaker 8: very specific getaway route and it's easy to follow right
34:55
Speaker 8: there on the map. So when you get down to
34:58
Speaker 8: the nitty gritty, Nancy, this was Annie trying to help.
35:01
Speaker 1: Okay, bottom line, there was a lot of words to say,
35:04
Speaker 1: we don't know, but thank you. Anyway, Let's take a
35:08
Speaker 1: look at Chantilly Tiram. That is what Circus seventy nine
35:11
Speaker 1: was before it was remodeled. It's a big structure, over
35:16
Speaker 1: three thousand feet. But what's interesting to me it was
35:21
Speaker 1: remodeled my retail specialists with Cushman Wakefield. Why do I
35:26
Speaker 1: care because if it was remodeled recently, Cheryl McCollum, that
35:31
Speaker 1: tells me they've got surveillance cameras.
35:36
Speaker 7: Possibly.
35:37
Speaker 6: What concerns me with any remodel is the cameras are
35:40
Speaker 6: going to be you know, taking apart.
35:42
Speaker 7: They're going to be.
35:43
Speaker 6: Rewired, so for a period of time they won't have
35:46
Speaker 6: any and it's probably the last thing they're going to
35:48
Speaker 6: put back together. So again I'm not asking why, you
35:55
Speaker 6: know the reason that you're thinking.
35:56
Speaker 7: I'm asking why for the investigation.
35:59
Speaker 6: If this pa out and we know the direction they're going,
36:04
Speaker 6: then we know where they're probably taking her.
36:06
Speaker 7: Now we know where better to search.
36:09
Speaker 6: Again, Nancy, I have not seen a legitimate search. Meaning
36:14
Speaker 6: let's get some volunteers out there, let's go shoulder to shoulder,
36:18
Speaker 6: let's pan out, let's get some horses and ATVs.
36:21
Speaker 7: We haven't seen it.
36:22
Speaker 6: We haven't seen a call for a search from Savannah Guthrie.
36:26
Speaker 6: She could have gotten five thousand volunteers out there. It
36:29
Speaker 6: hasn't happened.
36:31
Speaker 7: So either law.
36:32
Speaker 6: Enforcement doesn't think this has anything to do with an
36:35
Speaker 6: escape route, or they're ignoring vital evidence. But I'll tell you,
36:40
Speaker 6: I wish we had the nine to one to one call.
36:42
Speaker 6: I wish we had the first thing they said. I
36:46
Speaker 6: think that would help us determine, you know who, who
36:51
Speaker 6: did they suspect first?
36:52
Speaker 7: What did they say first? I think that would help us.
36:56
Speaker 3: Just Scott Morgan jump in.
36:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, So if we'd look at these two points points
37:00
Speaker 5: green Toes and the circus seventy nine Salon, you know,
37:03
Speaker 5: as it's entitled on the map, guess what you have
37:06
Speaker 5: to do there, Nancy. You have to slow down because
37:09
Speaker 5: this intersects with a major thoroughfare. The critical point is
37:14
Speaker 5: is that if there is a stoplight, if there is
37:17
Speaker 5: at those just those two points alone, a stop light,
37:20
Speaker 5: a stop sign, the individual driving this route, driving that
37:24
Speaker 5: vehicle will have at least had to do a pause.
37:28
Speaker 5: You know, some people refer to it as a California
37:31
Speaker 5: role right where you come in, you don't completely stop,
37:33
Speaker 5: and then you go ahead and go. It's not like
37:36
Speaker 5: this vehicle at those two spots would blast past it.
37:41
Speaker 5: Past these locations. We go back to Coburger. We think
37:44
Speaker 5: about that twenty mile circle or whatever it was, where
37:47
Speaker 5: they're catching these glimpses that ain't happening here. That individual
37:51
Speaker 5: would have to slow that vehicle down to the point
37:53
Speaker 5: where you can actually capture something. And if there are
37:56
Speaker 5: any more of these kind of intersections along the way,
37:59
Speaker 5: those are going to be points all right of where
38:02
Speaker 5: the individual would have had to slowed down enough where
38:05
Speaker 5: you can actually get a capture off of these cameras.
38:08
Speaker 5: I think that those are going to be very important points.
38:11
Speaker 5: I'm glad that you pointed these out because look, i mean,
38:15
Speaker 5: you got nothing else to go on. If you look
38:17
Speaker 5: at the elementary school, yeah it makes kind of a
38:20
Speaker 5: dog lift turn there, but did stop there or they
38:24
Speaker 5: just kind of rolling past it. These other places, you've
38:27
Speaker 5: got intersections with a major thoroughfare, they're going to have
38:31
Speaker 5: to slow at least they just think about their own preservation.
38:34
Speaker 5: They don't want to get teponed as they're pulling out there.
38:36
Speaker 5: It's just human nature. They're going to have to slow down.
38:40
Speaker 5: That could be a critical point or critical points right there.
38:43
Speaker 1: And amazingly, tonight, Dave Matt has done his own investigation
38:48
Speaker 1: into the route that any Guthrie provided and learned something
38:52
Speaker 1: very very probative.
38:53
Speaker 8: What about it, Dave, Nancy, Remember we had the card
38:58
Speaker 8: that was seen on a ring that was about two
39:01
Speaker 8: and a half miles from Nancy Guthries' home and it
39:04
Speaker 8: was on a back road away from the scene. It
39:07
Speaker 8: was dismissed by the police or the Sheriff's department. When
39:11
Speaker 8: I laid that map over the route on that that
39:15
Speaker 8: road does not show up on Anny Guthrie's route for
39:20
Speaker 8: getting away from the scene. But you lay it over
39:23
Speaker 8: and it's right in there. It fits as a possible
39:25
Speaker 8: route that could have been used as the escape route.
39:28
Speaker 8: It's right in the same general area.
39:31
Speaker 1: And that may answer Cheryl's question as to why Annie
39:34
Speaker 1: came up with this route. That video from our friends
39:37
Speaker 1: at Fox News, and tonight, another theory emerges by a
39:45
Speaker 1: renowned psychologist.
39:48
Speaker 3: Do you buy it? Listen?
39:50
Speaker 2: Fulls of intelligence involved here, which has pointed to me
39:53
Speaker 2: for a very long while. Now to a group of people,
39:58
Speaker 2: at least two, there is someone behind the curtain, was
40:02
Speaker 2: more intelligent, more scheming, and then the individual who actually
40:05
Speaker 2: carries it out. Because one of the prime reasons for
40:08
Speaker 2: eliminating a person other than financial is that they know something.
40:13
Speaker 3: That is our friend doctor GARYT.
40:14
Speaker 1: Bracado, who's an esteemed psychologist, and that is him from
40:19
Speaker 1: a hit on TMZ, our friend's Harvey Levin. As much
40:24
Speaker 1: as I think of Bricado, I'm not buying that she
40:27
Speaker 1: was kidnapped or killed somewhere else and the killer went
40:31
Speaker 1: back to the scene to put her blood on the
40:35
Speaker 1: porch and open and shut the doors. I mean, we
40:38
Speaker 1: have her heart monitor, her pacemaker, placing her there that night.
40:46
Speaker 1: So Joe Scott Morgan, what do you make of this
40:50
Speaker 1: theory that there's some motive we don't understand that nobody
40:55
Speaker 1: understands that she was taken and killed elsewhere and the
40:58
Speaker 1: purp goes back to this s to stage, including putting
41:02
Speaker 1: her blood on the front porch.
41:06
Speaker 5: So the killer, just so that I understand this, actually
41:10
Speaker 5: had the foreknowledge to show up and not just stage
41:13
Speaker 5: the blood but also deposit expert there. And what I
41:19
Speaker 5: mean by that is you've got blood that is being
41:21
Speaker 5: blown out of the nose in the mouth, and I'm
41:23
Speaker 5: going to stand by that. There's a close up. You
41:26
Speaker 5: look at the top right that cluster, yeah, right in there,
41:31
Speaker 5: and that in that tile space right there, you see
41:35
Speaker 5: those big depositions that are like the size of a nickel.
41:38
Speaker 5: Perhaps those tiny depositions, Nancy. The only way you get that,
41:42
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess the person could have showed up
41:44
Speaker 5: with a turkey baster, maybe drawn up some blood and
41:47
Speaker 5: kind of blasted it out and then allowed gravitational blood droplets,
41:52
Speaker 5: which would be the nickel size stuff. But those tiny,
41:55
Speaker 5: little little droplets. And let me set the record straight,
41:58
Speaker 5: that's not aspect about expert. So what that means blood
42:03
Speaker 5: is actually you do.
42:04
Speaker 1: Hear yourself right, the killer came back with a turkey
42:07
Speaker 1: bas or full of Nancy Guthries' blood. Okay, I don't
42:10
Speaker 1: usually cut your mind, but I am sorely tempted move forward.
42:15
Speaker 5: No, listen, it's it's implausible the physical science just looking
42:21
Speaker 5: at those images, by the way, that were generated from
42:25
Speaker 5: a member of the media that walked up and took
42:27
Speaker 5: those pictures. Because the scene was unsecured. That deposition right
42:31
Speaker 5: there flies in the face of that, Nancy, It really does.
42:35
Speaker 5: And I cannot imagine that whoever this rocket scientist is
42:40
Speaker 5: that did this had the fore knowledge to come in
42:43
Speaker 5: and set this up and stage it up, because that
42:47
Speaker 5: expert up there, Scot.
42:48
Speaker 1: While I've got you, A lot of viewers have questioned
42:52
Speaker 1: the fact that these photos.
42:54
Speaker 3: Are from our friends at Fox News.
42:55
Speaker 1: By the way, a lot of viewers have questioned foliage
42:59
Speaker 1: being on top of the blood, which could have happened
43:02
Speaker 1: in any number of ways. But could you weigh in
43:04
Speaker 1: on that before I go to our other guests.
43:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, because you have it's just basic physical science. If
43:09
Speaker 5: you have the blood deposition right there, how in the
43:15
Speaker 5: world did the greenery get on top of the blood.
43:19
Speaker 5: I've actually heard people say, well, there's evidence that there
43:23
Speaker 5: is there are bits of foliage with blood deposited on
43:28
Speaker 5: top of it. So I think that that's going to
43:31
Speaker 5: be a big question here. And again, Hey, Nancy, guess what,
43:36
Speaker 5: we don't know because the scene wasn't secured. These images
43:40
Speaker 5: that you're seeing do not come from the police. All right,
43:43
Speaker 5: you've had what pizza delivery guys, pool boys.
43:46
Speaker 1: Okay, you're going down the garden path. You're way out
43:49
Speaker 1: in the weeds. Let's get it back in the middle
43:51
Speaker 1: of the road. You don't think that theory works, right,
43:54
Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking about.
43:56
Speaker 5: No, I don't think it works absolutely.
43:58
Speaker 1: I mean you had to really do a backflip and
44:00
Speaker 1: involve a turkey baster to make that theory work. Okay,
44:03
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, what about it? And you know Ricado really
44:09
Speaker 1: smart guy. I don't know where this theory came from.
44:12
Speaker 3: What do you make of it?
44:14
Speaker 6: If you look at the ninety degree angle drops, some
44:18
Speaker 6: of them are.
44:18
Speaker 7: Clear in the center or have a half moved.
44:21
Speaker 6: The only way that happens is if they have air
44:25
Speaker 6: that comes from the nose of the mouth.
44:27
Speaker 7: Period.
44:27
Speaker 6: You could not take blood, transfer it, drop it and
44:31
Speaker 6: have it.
44:32
Speaker 7: Say, you know, have that same conclusion.
44:34
Speaker 6: How does the foliage get on top of the blood?
44:37
Speaker 7: That's easy.
44:38
Speaker 6: We see him on video placing that flower clump on
44:44
Speaker 6: top of the camera. At some point they fell off.
44:48
Speaker 7: That's easy.
44:49
Speaker 1: Okay to you, Brian Fitzgibbons. You have gone all around
44:54
Speaker 1: the world finding missing people. I've got a lot of
44:56
Speaker 1: questions for you about Cinera Mexico. But if you could
44:59
Speaker 1: wag in on what Briccado said, and again he is
45:02
Speaker 1: no idiot. But this theory that she was kidnapped or
45:07
Speaker 1: killed and another location and the part came back to
45:10
Speaker 1: stage the scene to make us think it happened there.
45:14
Speaker 1: It flies in the face of all the physical evidence.
45:16
Speaker 1: You've got to follow the physical evidence, like the blood,
45:20
Speaker 1: like the pacemaker.
45:23
Speaker 4: I'll defer to Cheryl McCollum and Joe Scott on the
45:26
Speaker 4: forensic side. But what I'll add is someone like doctor
45:30
Speaker 4: Briccado provides such supporting fires for someone like me in
45:35
Speaker 4: the field. And I'll explain this. An investigator can get
45:40
Speaker 4: locked into a certain hypothesis, a certain theory, right, and
45:44
Speaker 4: where you bring in somebody like doctor Bricado to present
45:48
Speaker 4: these potential hypothesis. Yeah, maybe the forensic evidence shoots it
45:52
Speaker 4: down quickly, maybe it takes a day or two to
45:54
Speaker 4: shoot it down, but it gives another angle for the
45:58
Speaker 4: investigation to look at. And sometimes that creates a breakthrough, right,
46:03
Speaker 4: Because I can say for myself, sometimes I'll get locked
46:06
Speaker 4: into one hypothesis or theory versus another, and someone like
46:11
Speaker 4: that presenting, Hey, there's someone controlling this from Afar, one
46:15
Speaker 4: foot soldier on the ground executing the abduction. Right, these
46:19
Speaker 4: are things that might get made.
46:21
Speaker 1: And we know tonight that quote fresh eyes have been
46:24
Speaker 1: brought in Fitzgibbons to take a fresh look at the
46:30
Speaker 1: evidence all over again. And I got to tell you something, Fitz.
46:33
Speaker 1: I'd be stuck in my office at the District Attorney's
46:35
Speaker 1: office in downtown Atlanta, and it'd be eight o'clock at night,
46:39
Speaker 1: I'd be looking the same thing over and over. And
46:42
Speaker 1: then my investigator, Ernest, we were together over ten years,
46:45
Speaker 1: only had one fight in ten years over that Posoj
46:49
Speaker 1: Simpson that said.
46:51
Speaker 3: He'd walk in say why are you still here? And
46:55
Speaker 3: I tell him and he.
46:56
Speaker 1: Would say, just out of the blue, well what about X.
47:00
Speaker 1: He was coming from a different point of view, something fresh.
47:04
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. And that's what's happening tonight,
47:07
Speaker 1: we're told.
47:11
Speaker 4: And that's where you know a talented individual liked doctor Bricado. Hey,
47:16
Speaker 4: you know, Babe Ruth struck out a number of times
47:19
Speaker 4: at home plate, right, he also hit a lot of
47:21
Speaker 4: home runs. So you know that's where that experience in
47:25
Speaker 4: brain power comes into play an investigation.
47:28
Speaker 1: And tonight to Dave mac Apparently, Sheriff Nanos, the sheriff
47:32
Speaker 1: in p mccounty, is in quote unchartered career territory. A
47:39
Speaker 1: ten day deadline has run out. He's in hot water
47:45
Speaker 1: yet again, Dave Mack, Is this anything like when you
47:47
Speaker 1: get a skunk at a softball game when the other
47:50
Speaker 1: side just doesn't show up, in other words, doesn't sufficiently
47:55
Speaker 1: hand in the filing, so the other side wins.
48:00
Speaker 3: A lot like that, Nancy.
48:01
Speaker 8: In reality, Nanos was given ten days to turn in
48:05
Speaker 8: a response to the questions the council had, and what
48:10
Speaker 8: he did was he basically sat down with his lawyer
48:13
Speaker 8: and wrote up excuses for things, but it wasn't under oath.
48:17
Speaker 8: So he turned in basically an undocumented list of excuses
48:23
Speaker 8: for his behavior and the things that he had said,
48:26
Speaker 8: but not under oath. And now the council is having
48:28
Speaker 8: to determine moving forward with his entire future. We told
48:32
Speaker 8: him to do this, but he did that instead, So
48:36
Speaker 8: they're having to make a decision on whether or not
48:38
Speaker 8: they actually pull him back in, put him under oath,
48:41
Speaker 8: and go through this whole process all over again to
48:44
Speaker 8: discuss his previous accusations of lying and misusing his office
48:48
Speaker 8: during an election year.
48:50
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, don't you know that if they can get
48:54
Speaker 1: rid of him on a technicality, in other words, he
48:57
Speaker 1: didn't properly fill out these forms.
49:00
Speaker 3: He'll get the boot.
49:02
Speaker 1: Right, He'll be taking the patent turner, pat the street
49:04
Speaker 1: and turn the corner by and Nancy.
49:07
Speaker 7: That is only going to serve to hurt this investigation.
49:10
Speaker 7: Somebody would have to come in and they would have.
49:13
Speaker 6: To start all over, go through every single thing that
49:17
Speaker 6: would hamper the investigation.
49:18
Speaker 7: Sadly, but let me tell you something. I don't think any.
49:21
Speaker 6: Of us on this panel has had all the confidence
49:24
Speaker 6: in the world in this sheriff statements like your guess
49:28
Speaker 6: is as good as mine. When he says things like oh,
49:31
Speaker 6: there's thousands of vehicles at that time of day, we
49:34
Speaker 6: all know that's not possible. You know, he is the
49:37
Speaker 6: one that said, oh, I believe she's still alive.
49:40
Speaker 7: Again.
49:41
Speaker 6: I don't think there's an expert out there that believes
49:44
Speaker 6: Nancy Guthrie is still alive.
49:46
Speaker 7: Nobody being held somewhere.
49:49
Speaker 6: So he's flip flopped, he's given bad information, he's contradicted himself.
49:54
Speaker 6: There's not a lot of you know, trust in what
49:58
Speaker 6: he's doing. But anybody would hate to see all of
50:03
Speaker 6: this happening now. I feel for the family. The Guthrie
50:07
Speaker 6: family is not getting what they deserve in this investigation period.
50:11
Speaker 1: Oh goodness, no, But to you, Joe Scott Morgan, I
50:14
Speaker 1: don't know that I agree if it would be such
50:16
Speaker 1: a bad thing for Nanas to be replaced, even though
50:18
Speaker 1: it is menstream.
50:22
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think that it would be. But we
50:24
Speaker 5: have to look at this from a very let's take
50:27
Speaker 5: the thirty thousand foot view on this, Nancy, And you
50:29
Speaker 5: know this better than anybody. What's this going to bode
50:34
Speaker 5: for the future of the investigation and for if they
50:37
Speaker 5: hook somebody up on this, what's it going to vote
50:41
Speaker 5: for that prosecution? Perhaps you know that the attorneys will
50:45
Speaker 5: have a field day with this. They'll say that there's
50:49
Speaker 5: you know, it's rife with incompetence, that you missed evidence,
50:53
Speaker 5: all these sorts of things. And isn't it funny? Isn't
50:56
Speaker 5: it funny how those things that you do at the
50:59
Speaker 5: beginning of any investigation are going to echo through time.
51:04
Speaker 5: And this case, this case in and of itself, is
51:07
Speaker 5: a benchmark for that. I got to tell you Nancy
51:10
Speaker 5: moving forward with this case. This is actually a case
51:14
Speaker 5: as a college professor that I will present for years
51:17
Speaker 5: to come saying this is an example kids of what
51:22
Speaker 5: not to do. And here we are. We're still in
51:25
Speaker 5: the middle of it, and it just keeps getting more
51:28
Speaker 5: and more bizarre as we go down this road.
51:31
Speaker 1: You know, fitz after, there have been a number of
51:34
Speaker 1: to say, ephemistically, putting perfume on the pig, miss steps, translation,
51:40
Speaker 1: screw ups. Is there a way to make a save
51:44
Speaker 1: on this case?
51:47
Speaker 4: I think there is. There's been a tremendous amount of
51:52
Speaker 4: leads generated, a tremendous amount of digital evidence, and it's
51:55
Speaker 4: important to remember here there's a game clock on here,
51:59
Speaker 4: and the game clock for the public eighty eight days
52:01
Speaker 4: and for the Guthrie family it's tremendously heartbreaking. But the
52:06
Speaker 4: FBI controls that game clock, not the perpetrator of this crime,
52:11
Speaker 4: and they have an unlimited amount of time in resources
52:14
Speaker 4: to go through this evidence and find who did this crime. Okay,
52:20
Speaker 4: So that's an important piece to remember here. I don't
52:23
Speaker 4: I don't think hope is lost that justice can be
52:26
Speaker 4: served in this case.
52:27
Speaker 1: Well, you just said something that is very encouraging Bryan
52:30
Speaker 1: Fus Gibbons. You mentioned the Feds. If anybody can crack
52:34
Speaker 1: this case, it's them, But they need you. If you
52:39
Speaker 1: know or even think you know anything about the disappearance
52:43
Speaker 1: of missus Guthrie, dial Tolfree eight hundred two two five
52:47
Speaker 1: five three two four repeat eight hundred two two five
52:51
Speaker 1: five three two four. There is a one point two
52:55
Speaker 1: plus million dollar reward and if you wish to remain
52:59
Speaker 1: on a us five two zero eight eight two seven
53:03
Speaker 1: four sixty three five two zero eight eight two seven
53:09
Speaker 1: four six three one point two plus million dollars on
53:15
Speaker 1: the table. And remember a conviction not required, an arrest
53:23
Speaker 1: not required for you to get the reward. Tonight we
53:29
Speaker 1: remember an American hero, Reserve Deputy Heather Avery, Jefferson County Constables, Texas,
53:35
Speaker 1: killed in a line of duty, leaving behind a grieving
53:40
Speaker 1: husband Troy, and daughter Caitlin, sentenced to life without her mother.
53:46
Speaker 1: American hero Deputy Heather Avery. Thank you to our guests,
53:52
Speaker 1: but especially to you for being with us tonight and
53:54
Speaker 1: keeping the search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Nancy Gray signing
53:59
Speaker 1: off for tonight see tomorrow night and until then, good night, friend.
54:08
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.