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Tara Grinstead's best friend searches for answers in beauty queen's disappearance & murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
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  Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. She had the world at her feet.
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  Speaker 1: She had what so many people, particularly women, wish for.
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  Speaker 1: She was literally a beauty queen, beautiful on the outside
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  Speaker 1: and on the inside, and she was a double threat.
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  Speaker 1: She was brainy, on track to get her pH d.
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  Speaker 1: And then suddenly, out of the blue, she's gone. Nobody
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  Speaker 1: knows what happened. Nobody, no ransom note, no clues, no nothing,
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  Speaker 1: just gone. And I will never forget as long as
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  Speaker 1: I live. Meeting her mother and her mom walked me
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  Speaker 1: through her home and it looked, as I always say,
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  Speaker 1: like a little jewelry box on the inside, just absolutely perfect.
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  Speaker 1: You know. It reminded me a little bit of when
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  Speaker 1: I flipped through my fiancee's letters that he wrote me
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  Speaker 1: before he was murdered. And it's a dangerous place to
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  Speaker 1: go because sometimes you can't get back out of it.
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  Speaker 1: But the longing in the mom's voice, the wistfulness, was
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  Speaker 1: something I'll never forget. Of course, I'm talking about Tara Grinstead.
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  Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
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  Speaker 1: being with us. We all know that Tara Grinstead High
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  Speaker 1: School teacher goes to a cookout, like a barbecue pool
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  Speaker 1: type party with a lot of other teachers, the principal
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  Speaker 1: people from the community in her small town of Oscilla,
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  Speaker 1: not too far from where I grew up, where there's
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  Speaker 1: nothing but tall pine trees and soybean fields as far
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  Speaker 1: as the eye could see. She goes home that night
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  Speaker 1: and she's never seen again, dead or alive. Joining me
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  Speaker 1: right now, Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of l A
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  Speaker 1: cold case investigator, director of the Cold Case Institute, Cheryl McCullum,
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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories reporter John Limley, and special guests. Joining us
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  Speaker 1: is Tara Grinstead's best friend, Maria Harbor. Maria, thank you
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  Speaker 1: for being with us along with all my other guests.
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  Speaker 1: When you talked about Tara Grinstead, what effect does that
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  Speaker 1: have on you, Well, it's just a lot of years
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  Speaker 1: of missing her and um, just remember the good things
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  Speaker 1: that happened, and um, it's just seen a lot of
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  Speaker 1: healing and trying to recover from from what happened twelve
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  Speaker 1: years ago. But um, as you know, UM, six six
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  Speaker 1: or eight months ago, I guess we had the biggest
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  Speaker 1: break ever. UM, so it's been really an emotional rollercoaster
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  Speaker 1: since then. You know, I'm still grieving for my dad
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  Speaker 1: and still believe it or not grieving for my fiancee,
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  Speaker 1: which was so many years ago, and you know, having
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  Speaker 1: the twins. I think it was the biggest blessing in
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  Speaker 1: my life because up until then I would really not
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  Speaker 1: let myself be happy. I would not be in love,
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  Speaker 1: I would not fully enjoy anything. I always felt guilty
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  Speaker 1: about being happy, and so I would bury myself in
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  Speaker 1: one murder case after the next after the next. Is
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  Speaker 1: how I lived. I lived for putting bad guys behind bars.
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  Speaker 1: You remember those days, Sheryl McCollum, when you and I
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  Speaker 1: were in the trenches together, Nathy. Not only do I
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  Speaker 1: remember those days, I can remember you spreading the files out.
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  Speaker 1: And one of my strongest memories when smet you is
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  Speaker 1: you would spread those files out and you would pray
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  Speaker 1: over the files. And that was one of those things
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  Speaker 1: that always has resonated with me is how deep your
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  Speaker 1: conviction was. Well, you just made me have to take
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  Speaker 1: out my handkerchief. I also remember going in court and
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  Speaker 1: some judges had then switched to not using a bible
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  Speaker 1: to swear in the witnesses, so of course, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I always had my own with me, so I just
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  Speaker 1: whip it out and take it up there. Um. You know,
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  Speaker 1: every time I talked to you, bring up another memory.
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  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum to Maria Woods Harbor, Maria, let's go back
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  Speaker 1: in your mind two. Then the day that she went missing.
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  Speaker 1: That night, what happened. Well, the last thing we knew
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  Speaker 1: is that she had. Um, she had gone to the pageant,
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  Speaker 1: which she had planned on going through the whole week. Um,
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  Speaker 1: she had help the girls get ready for that, and
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  Speaker 1: then she'd gone to the paget. After that, she went
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  Speaker 1: to a party. Um, you know, no big deal. She
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  Speaker 1: was leaving going home. Nobody thought anything out of the ordinary. Um,
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  Speaker 1: she went home. What I thought, she probably got in
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  Speaker 1: the bed and um. And then you know, so we
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  Speaker 1: didn't know anything after that. No one talked to her,
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  Speaker 1: saw her after that. And she was supposed to come
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  Speaker 1: home the next day. So obviously we were We knew
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  Speaker 1: something was going on when she didn't come home and
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  Speaker 1: we couldn't get her on the phone. Okay, wait, wait,
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  Speaker 1: will wait, back it up, Back it up. She wasn't
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  Speaker 1: at her home. When you say home, what do you
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  Speaker 1: mean by that, Okay. She she lived in Oscella, which
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  Speaker 1: is a very small town about fifty minutes from where
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  Speaker 1: she has originally home. So when I say home, I
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  Speaker 1: mean Hawkinsville because that's where we grew up, you know,
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  Speaker 1: that's where her mom lived. She lived in Osceilla's. So
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  Speaker 1: the next day she was coming home to see her
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  Speaker 1: mom and me, and she she did that often because
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  Speaker 1: she was very close to her mother, as you remember, Um,
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  Speaker 1: so she was she's very you know, she watched over
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  Speaker 1: her mother even even though she was fifty miles away.
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  Speaker 1: And um, she was planning the whole week to come
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  Speaker 1: there on that Sunday and bring her dog. And when
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  Speaker 1: she didn't come, you know, we knew something was going
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  Speaker 1: on in her mother and I were we're worried, but
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  Speaker 1: it was it was like, well, maybe you know, there's
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  Speaker 1: just something to him. She is old enough to make
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  Speaker 1: her own decisions and go shopping some you know, one day,
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  Speaker 1: or do something that she doesn't have to call and
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  Speaker 1: tell us. So we kind of brushed off. Maybe it
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  Speaker 1: was just something she had planned, you know, we didn't know.
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  Speaker 1: Um that night, we definitely got more worried, and her
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  Speaker 1: mother was, um, just beside herself. And worry, and um,
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  Speaker 1: we just really didn't know what to do. I wish
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  Speaker 1: now we had we had called the police in I mean,
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  Speaker 1: obviously I wish we had done things differently, but um,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she was old enough to make
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  Speaker 1: her own decisions, and we just really thought there's no
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  Speaker 1: way to wrong. You know, there's just no way. You know,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of people don't understand it, Maria, but I
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  Speaker 1: remember on Chryl again, you were with me during this too.
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  Speaker 1: When I first started practice single law. You know, I
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  Speaker 1: left my hometown of make and my parents lived. We
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  Speaker 1: lived outside the city in a very rural farming area,
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  Speaker 1: and um, every weekend for the longest time, unless I
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  Speaker 1: was working on a trial from Monday, and oftentimes even then,
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  Speaker 1: I would drive home to see my family. That's the
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  Speaker 1: way that we were raised, and that's what I wanted
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  Speaker 1: to do. I don't feel like I had to do it.
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  Speaker 1: I did it because I wanted to do it. And
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  Speaker 1: spend the weekend Friday, Saturday, Sunday, get up, go church,
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  Speaker 1: have lunch, pack up, and go back to work. That's
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  Speaker 1: just the way a lot of people are. You know,
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  Speaker 1: my family is that important to you, And I get it.
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  Speaker 1: You know, she doesn't come home as expected on Sunday,
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  Speaker 1: and everybody's like, what what's going on? But you don't
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  Speaker 1: want she's a grown woman. You don't want to call
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  Speaker 1: her and go why aren't you here? But you know what,
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  Speaker 1: there's that other thing Dr Bethany l a psycho analyst.
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  Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, It's that thing that I have to
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  Speaker 1: tell myself all the time with twins. Now, don't get crazy,
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  Speaker 1: They're okay. But see that only lasts for about twenty
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  Speaker 1: seconds because I immediately revert to when I need something
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  Speaker 1: to happen to Keith, and I'm like, Okay, it's gonna
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  Speaker 1: be okay. But it wasn't okay, And you have that feeling?
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  Speaker 1: What is that, Bethany? Well, you know, Nancy, I remember
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  Speaker 1: that feeling when you covered this story because I was
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  Speaker 1: on those shows and I remember you walking through a
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  Speaker 1: terrace house with her mother, and I do remember it
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  Speaker 1: looking like a little jewel box. Everything was just perfect.
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  Speaker 1: And I was so new on the show at that
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  Speaker 1: time that I had the same thought you're talking about
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  Speaker 1: that all this is a beautiful young woman. Okay, So
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  Speaker 1: she didn't show up to visit her mother, should we
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  Speaker 1: all really be that alarmed. You don't want to think
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  Speaker 1: that something really bad has happened. And I think it's
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  Speaker 1: maybe the same reason people don't report child abuse, they
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  Speaker 1: don't report runaways, they don't report crimes right away. They
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  Speaker 1: don't want to stir up a hornet's nest if nothing's wrong.
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  Speaker 1: They don't want to seem hysterical or like they're being
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  Speaker 1: drama queens. And yet then afterwards they look back and
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  Speaker 1: they say, why didn't I make a bigger deal out
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  Speaker 1: of this? And then there's so much recrimination and self
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  Speaker 1: doubt and really self hatred. Um, that just goes on
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  Speaker 1: and on after that. So you try to thank everything
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  Speaker 1: is okay, but somewhere in there there's that voice saying
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  Speaker 1: it's not okay. So that afternoon with me is Tera Grin,
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  Speaker 1: said's best friend Maria Harbor. Maria, that afternoon you said
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  Speaker 1: to Useette what a paget or prepping people for a page,
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  Speaker 1: and or what she had helped Saturday? She was helping
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  Speaker 1: girls get ready. She was all in the pages, as
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  Speaker 1: you know. And um, so she was helping get ready
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  Speaker 1: and you know, like jewelry makers. I mean, wait a minute,
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  Speaker 1: she was just gorgeous tall, I mean, built like a
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  Speaker 1: brick house. She was statuesque. She really carried herself with
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  Speaker 1: a lot of poise. She always reminded me of of
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  Speaker 1: a brunette Grace Kelly. She was very you know she
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if she was like that in real life,
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  Speaker 1: but she projected proper, you know, yeah, that's the way
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  Speaker 1: she projected, Maria, very proper. Absolutely, yeah she did. You're right.
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  Speaker 1: So that afternoon she was actually helping the girls at
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  Speaker 1: a pageant and then she went what was this grill
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  Speaker 1: out she went to that evening. It was with some
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  Speaker 1: of her co workers. Um, you know, like I said,
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  Speaker 1: it's a very small pun so in the school you know,
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  Speaker 1: you think about high school has about three d kids
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  Speaker 1: and it's a very very small school with the faculty
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  Speaker 1: that's very tight knit. So it was a lot of
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  Speaker 1: faculty members, Um, you know, just kind of had a cookout.
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  Speaker 1: It was, you know, just cooking out on a Saturday night.
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  Speaker 1: And so she was there because I can't remember if
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  Speaker 1: the principal was there. I know, UM, there's like assistant
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  Speaker 1: superintendent and you know some some bigger you know, and
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  Speaker 1: people in administration. Let me say that, um, and teachers
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  Speaker 1: and their wives and all, and then she went home.
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  Speaker 1: Then she went home. How do you know that? Well,
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  Speaker 1: we don't know that. That's the thing. After she left
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  Speaker 1: that um that that cook out. We really don't know
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  Speaker 1: what happened. I mean, it just it really comes down
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  Speaker 1: of the speculation. Now. I I know that at some
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  Speaker 1: point during the night or during the day, she had
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  Speaker 1: been watching someone's dog. So she had um taken them
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  Speaker 1: the dog. And I want to say that may have
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  Speaker 1: been um how they established she had gotten to the house.
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  Speaker 1: But either way, UM, you know her car was at home.
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  Speaker 1: How how do you what tell me about the dog
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  Speaker 1: and how they established it she made it to her home.
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  Speaker 1: I know her car was there all muddy. Tell me
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  Speaker 1: about the dog. Um she had was like taken care
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  Speaker 1: of someone's dog, and it was somebody in the neighborhood.
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  Speaker 1: Um you know as a younger boy. But she knew
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  Speaker 1: the family and UM so so she had met up
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  Speaker 1: with him to give him the dog back at some
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  Speaker 1: point it UM. I think I think a lot of
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  Speaker 1: it is just assumption, because you know, her car was
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  Speaker 1: back at her home and um didn't they find the
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  Speaker 1: clothes that she was wearing that night? Yes, well because
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  Speaker 1: we had a picture of her that night, um, which
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  Speaker 1: obviously that didn't come to a little later UM because
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  Speaker 1: you know, like this was oe years ago, so we
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  Speaker 1: didn't have um cameras on phones and you know, text
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  Speaker 1: message in and all that kind of stuff, so we
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  Speaker 1: didn't have immediately what she had had on. We just
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  Speaker 1: knew about what we thought. So yeah, we did end
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  Speaker 1: up signing out that she had come home and changed,
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  Speaker 1: um and in her bedroom to me, was there. Obviously
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  Speaker 1: she had been in the bed because it was unmade, UM,
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  Speaker 1: and I know she wouldn't have had her room and
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  Speaker 1: made with her with people in and out of her
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  Speaker 1: house like she was gonna have it very neat and clean.
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  Speaker 1: So she had gotten into the bed and um, but
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  Speaker 1: we could we never found her pocket book. Her pocket
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  Speaker 1: book was gone. Um. Her phone was there, but her
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  Speaker 1: pocket book was was gone. And so you'll expect her
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  Speaker 1: on Sunday. She on Sunday, she doesn't show up. Then
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  Speaker 1: what happened, Well, Um, Monday morning, we were gonna her
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  Speaker 1: mother and I was just gonna call school and you
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  Speaker 1: know check on her like that. Well before I could
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  Speaker 1: even do that, they all of me and said, um,
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  Speaker 1: she didn't show up, we're going in the house. So
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  Speaker 1: I left immediately and went down UM and met them
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  Speaker 1: at the house and we went in and obviously I
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  Speaker 1: couldn't find her. Wasn't she was no trace, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: she was gone. What did they ask you? What type
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  Speaker 1: of questions did the police first ask you? Well, Um,
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  Speaker 1: immediately they started thinking that she had just run off.
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  Speaker 1: You know, maybe she's shopping. Maybe shopping, you know, it
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  Speaker 1: was just really kind of thrown shopping, I know, I said,
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  Speaker 1: But what did she have to be at work on
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  Speaker 1: Monday mornings? Oh yeah, oh yeah, and she would have
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: never You can't when you're a school teacher, you can't
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  Speaker 1: just not show up. I mean, you know, you can't
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  Speaker 1: do that. Like that's not gonna happen. And that's what
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  Speaker 1: I told him. There's no way she would have just
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: not going to work. But I think, you know, I
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: said this several times, this is the best thing I
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  Speaker 1: can I'm related to UM. About a week or two
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  Speaker 1: before that, there was a lady who was about to
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  Speaker 1: get married and she ran away and she called a
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  Speaker 1: few days. I remember her, Jennifer, what was her name,
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  Speaker 1: Cheryl the runaway bride. Yeah, I was just thinking about
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  Speaker 1: her the other day. I'll remember her name in a minute,
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  Speaker 1: go ahead. So some people thought that, but Tera wasn't. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: so so that was in their mind, you know, oh,
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  Speaker 1: maybe she's just not wanting to be here. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, no, that that's not it. But immediately that's there.
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  Speaker 1: You know, she would have at least called in a sub.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: She would have at least called for a sub. I know. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you know, so then when did it hit you she
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  Speaker 1: really was gone. I mean, this whole idea that she
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  Speaker 1: would just leave and go shopping, that doesn't even make
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  Speaker 1: sense to me. It was ridiculous. I mean, they called
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  Speaker 1: around to see if there was if there was any
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  Speaker 1: identified someone you know, at the hospitals, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: they checked that kind of thing. But you know, for
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: several hours, they were just convinced that she just didn't
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  Speaker 1: want to be here anymore because her pocket boot was
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  Speaker 1: gone and her phone was there. Let me ask you
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  Speaker 1: a question, um with me as Tera Grinstead's best friend,
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  Speaker 1: Maria Woods Harbor. Maria, many people have let's just say,
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  Speaker 1: capitalized on Terra's disappearance and investigated it and written about it.
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  Speaker 1: You know, a lot a lot of investigation has gone
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: on What do you make of some of the theories
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  Speaker 1: out there that Tera grinstead and I just want to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: put it out there. I disagree with it, and it
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  Speaker 1: makes me extremely angry when people bring it up, very
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  Speaker 1: angry because, in my mind, is dragging the victim, the
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  Speaker 1: dead victim who endured god knows what through the mud.
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  Speaker 1: Many people have speculated she was in some kind of
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: a sex relationship with her killers, who we now believed
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  Speaker 1: to be two of her two former students at her
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: high school. Um that she was in a state of
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  Speaker 1: mind that night where she wanted to walk on the
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  Speaker 1: wild side and ended up at some bonfire out and
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: a pecan orchard and then things turned went went sideways. Basically,
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  Speaker 1: what they're saying is because she put herself in a
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  Speaker 1: bad situation. To me, that's a victim shaming. And there's
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  Speaker 1: no evidence of any of that whatsoever that I know of.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe somebody knows something I don't know. But what you're
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  Speaker 1: her best friend, could you speak to what has been
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: said about Terra since her death? Well, you know, when
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  Speaker 1: it happened, she was just gone. I mean we had nobody,
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  Speaker 1: no note clues, nothing, and it was very very upsetting. Well,
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  Speaker 1: you know, over the past twelve years, there's been a
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  Speaker 1: million theories about what she did and like she said,
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  Speaker 1: what she did to deserve this and um, and it's
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  Speaker 1: been twelve years of defending that and you can't you know,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I had to take a lot of time away from
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  Speaker 1: it because it was just I constantly try to defend
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  Speaker 1: her because there's you know, it was just so silly.
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  Speaker 1: Some of the stuff was just so ridiculous. But like
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  Speaker 1: what oh, I mean, it was like, you know, she
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  Speaker 1: had a conspiracy and that she paid these people to
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  Speaker 1: come do this and she could get attention. And um,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: you know, there was one so silly that you know,
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  Speaker 1: we were we that I helped her plan this getaway
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: and um, you know, and the reason they weren't finding
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  Speaker 1: hers because I was paid for my O. My goodness,
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  Speaker 1: Really every boyfriend she had from the time she was
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  Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen on up to when she was missing, I
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: had to tell them everything about and and they had,
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  Speaker 1: you know, search and they had to and it was
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  Speaker 1: so it's been so bad in the past twelve years
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  Speaker 1: that anyone that was in her life has been drug
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  Speaker 1: through mud and everything. It's just ridiculous. What do you
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  Speaker 1: make of the theories that have been put out there
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  Speaker 1: that the night she went missing, she was in a
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: state of mind that she wanted to go to some
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: crazy alcohol slash drug fueled bonfire out at a pecan
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: orchard or something to that effect. I've never heard anything
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: like it in my life. Well, it is, it is silly,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: and it's really extremely stupid because it's such you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: first of all, I don't believe she would do that.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: She's just not like that. But even if she did,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, my my thing is, who cares? You know,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: The point is she's not here anymore. And um, you know,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I mean that's just like saying if if you go
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to a bar, you know, and you get you know,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: taken or keeled or whatever, then you deserve it because
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: you're at a bar, you know. I mean, it doesn't
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: make sense. I mean, do you really think she went
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: out to some party with a bunch of kids in
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: a pecan orchard? I mean, that's last thing I want
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: to do at one o'clock in the morning is go
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: out with some former students at a pecan orchard and
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: want them drink a kid. If you got a brain,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: you'd understand that's ridiculous. A school teacher. Ye would be
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: fired the next day, you know, because it was It
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: would not be like you could keep that a secret.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: I mean she would be fired like herself and her
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: in her career in that position because she worked so hard.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: It's not like her parents paid for her college judisition.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: She worked to pay that. There's no way she was
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: on her career way for just a night like that that.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: There's just no way. That's stupid. Well, I'm telling you,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I I hear you, Uh, Cheryl and Dr Bethany. Even
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: at the time I knew UH started on TV, I
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: was still paying that monthly payment from my student loans
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: to get through law school, a hundred and seventy seven
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: dollars and eleven cents. I wrote it every every month
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: for ten years. I think it wasn't I can't even remember.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: In fact, I was so used to paying it. I
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: actually won't one check extra. They sent me a refund
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: and I kept it. I never cashed his one hundred
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: seventy seven dollars and eleven cents to pay off my
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: law school tuision for ten years. John Limley cry Stories
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: contributing reporter Maria Harbor mentioned a break Finally, what is
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the break. Well, let's go back to two thousand eight. Uh.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: The case received renewed attention at that time with a
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: report on the CBS news show forty eight Hours Mystery,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: which noted a similarity in the case to the disappearance
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: of another young woman in Orlando, Florida. UH. In connection
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: with that news story, police at that time revealed that
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: they had found d n A on a latex glove
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: in the front yard in Grinstead's front yard, just a
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: stone's throw away from her front door. Now. In February
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: two thousand nine, some videos surfaced on the Internet featuring
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: a self proclaimed serial killer who called himself the Catchme Killer.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: The man in the videos details what he claims are
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: sixteen female l victims that he has murdered, and one
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: of these women, uh he sort of hints at is
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Tara Grinstead. Though the man's face and voice were digitally obscured,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Police eventually determined the videos were that of twenty seven
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: year old Andrew Haley, and a police investigation ultimately revealed
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: the videos to be part of a bizarre, elaborate hoax,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: and Haley was ultimately eliminated as a suspect. Then, in
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: two thousand eleven eleven, the Chief gb I, that's the
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Georgia Bureau of Investigation investigators said that the case had
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: gone cold, adding that leads still come in on a
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: weekly basis. Then, on February twenty third, seventeen, after a
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: lengthy investigation, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation announced that they
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: had received a tip And this is the big break
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: that Maria was talking about that led to the arrest
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: of Ryan Alexander Duke for murder. About three years before
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Tara's disappearance, Ryan Duke had attended Irwin County High School,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: the same school where Grinstead was employed as a history teacher.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: According to warrants read in court, Duke had burglarized Tara's
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: home and when discovered, he strangled her and removed her
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: body from the house. Another arrest fairly quickly after this,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: on March three, seventeen, was made public in connection with
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Terra's disappearance. Bow Dukes and this is Duke with an
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: S on the end, and there's no relation between the
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Duke and the Duke's. Uh Bou Duke's, a former classmate
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: of Ryan Alexander Duke, was charged with attempting to conceal
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: a death, hindering apprehension, apprehension, and tampering with evidence. Um
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: At this time, terrace sister Anita Gaddis said she had
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: known bou Doup's family for years, but had never connected
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: him with any part of her sister's disappearance. Right now,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the investigation goes on into a former student there at
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: the high school where Tara Grinstead taught, and for years
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: police did not make the connection and there was really
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: no reason to. I want to pause very quickly in
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: think not only our guests Tera Grinstead's best friend, Maria Harbor,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: l a Psychoanlan's Dr. Bethany Marshall, John Limley, Crime Stories reporter,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold Case Institute. I
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: want to thank our partner who is making our program
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: today on Syria Sex Possible. It's Legal Zoom. New Year's
• 24:54
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• 26:04
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• 26:08
  Speaker 1: in the case of missing beauty queen Tera Grinstead Maria
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Harbor with us Terra's best friend Maria. These two guys,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: there's Bow Dukes and Ryan Dukes. Now they're not related
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: at all. I guess they knew each other from both
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: living in the small town. But the alleged killer is
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Ryan Dukes. And then you've got the friend. The hanger
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: on Bo Dukes is that do I have them right,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: John Limley. One has an S and one does not.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Ryan Alexander Duke with no S and then bow Uh
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Dukes with an S. Yeah. My question is Ryan Duke
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: is the one suspect like actually killing her? And then
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: you've got the bow. All right, Maria Harbor, Let's go
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: back to the night she goes missing. How was her
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: mother reacting? What was her mother's belief when she finds
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: out Tara didn't show up for work on Monday. First
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: of all, she didn't show up to church on Sunday,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: which was completely out of character. But then on Monday
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: when she didn't show up to work, what happened? Her
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: mother actually wanted to say at her home in Hawkinsville
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: by the phone, because UM, she knew that if if
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Terry get to a phone where she could call her
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: and UM, and she knew that she knew the number,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and so she felt comfortable just waiting there. And I left,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: and UM immediately obviously went to Oceila and just kept
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: her updated. But she um was destroyed. I mean she
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: was a basket case. I mean she she she was
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: worried to death, as you can imagine as a mother. UM,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: and she just knew. It was completely out of character
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: for her not to be in touch with her. What
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: did you do? You said, you went to Osilla, the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: city and started looking. Where did you go? What did
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: you find out? Um? We obviously went to the police station,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: UM and taught with them, and you know, I started
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: calling people off her phone that I knew. UM, you know,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I called. I don't know how many people I called,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: but I took and and called her. Um. Because at
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: that time, they didn't take the phone or anything. I mean,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: nothing was really bagged for evidence or I mean, nothing
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: was off limits. It wasn't like they taped off the
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: crime scene from the very beginning. I mean I walked around,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: you know, checked on the cat and dog. I mean,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like they wouldn't let us in there. I
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: was in there with her phone, looking at her jewelry
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: and stuff to see if anything was missing. UM. So
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: when when we couldn't get anybody that had seen her
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: talked to her and we got to the police station, UM,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: things got a little you know, more real, I guess
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: with them and they called in the g D. I
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: for hell, okay, wait wait wait wait wait, let me
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: back in. It just a moment, Alan Duke is joining
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: me my partner here on serious x Alan. A lot
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: has been made that the police, the g b I,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: dropped the ball. I don't necessarily know that that's true.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: What I'm hearing from Maria is it didn't seem a
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: lot anyone. Well, the authorities believed there was any foul play,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: but that the crime scene was just wide open. What
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: do you know, well, you know it is. It is
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: a small town, and so they don't have a big
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: homicide investigation unit, but they work quick apparently to call
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: him the g b I. You gotta realize the gb
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: I did such a thorough investigation of this. This is
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: historically the largest case file in Georgia history. Now, you
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and I have looked at so many missing women and
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: the big frustration is the police don't immediately get on
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: it and treat it as a serious, potentially criminal case.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: And this one apparently they did a little bit quicker
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: than we normally see. So it's hard default them. But
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: it was a small town. I'm just trying to said,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: naturally am prior to defend the police from having them
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: as witnesses and and seeking justice with them for so
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: long to Sheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: I'd like you to weigh in on this because they've
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: really got a black eye on this. Hey maybe it's deserved,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: maybe it's not. I just want to know the truth.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: What what do you think, Sheryl McCollum. Well, Nancy, as
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: soon as the sheriff was even called, he drove over
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: to her, you know, her home personally and walked around
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: and didn't see any broken windows, no furce entry. And
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: at this time, again even her mom and best friend
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: were not sure anything had happened. They just knew she
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: wasn't calling them back. So you know, they went into
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: this correctly, saying, Okay, we're gonna go check it out
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: and if there's no signs of any criminal activity, then
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: we're gonna drop back and see if she shows up
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: on Monday. When that did not happen, when she did
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: not show up for school, everything changed in everybody's mind.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: And and the g B I mean again to Alan's Pulley.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: It is the largest case file in Georgian history. But
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: they interviewed over a hundred people. They went to her colleges,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: they went to her school, they talked to past boyfriends,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: they talked to past students. So you're talking about somebody that, yes,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: is a beauty queen. She is gorgeous, she is also
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: very bright. Well what that means for police when she
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: goes on to that college campus for her masters and
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: then for her six year um, more people know her
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: than she knows, if that makes sense. She off so
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: like even me with with my kids, they're they're all
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: in sports and they're in different activities and music. More
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: people know me as her and Caroline's mom that I
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: don't even know these people, but they know my children.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: So Harold would get a lot of attention. A lot
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: of people knew her. So the subspect Pool, spreaghett O,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: syl will be in a small town. There were literally
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people they had to
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: go through. They did a stellar job and when you
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: listen to them tell you tips were coming in weekly.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: This was never a case that was on the shelf. Ever,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: and you're talking about everybody from the sheriff in Tipton, Hawkinsville, policy,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: the g B i Oscilla, everybody was working in this case. Everybody,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: So I'm not sure that I go along with everyone
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: trashing the cops on this. Now, when we hear, as
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Maria has truly and accurately portrayed it, that the crime
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: scene was wide open, people are walking in and out
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: at that time. I don't I don't think that they,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the police, and I may be talking out of school here,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think they really considered it to be a
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: legitimate crime, Senior. They just knew she hadn't called home, right,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: and we're not about to Nancy. It was ahead right,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: It was a welfare check. It wasn't a crime scene.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: So then what happens? What did you said? You went,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: you checked her jewelry, Maria, you took care of the
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: cat and dog. What if anything did you notice? I
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: did notice the lamp, UM and the alarm clock that
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: was underneath her bed, her lamp that she used to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Um just let her neighbors that were older and um
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: let them know that she was home and okay, was
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: broken and it wouldn't turn on. I didn't, but it
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: was sitting up like it was fixed. So I don't
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: even know how I remember seeing it that was broke,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: but I thought that was definitely odd, um because it
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: would not work. And then her, like I said, her
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: alarm clock was under her bed, still plugged up. I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: thought that was very strange. Um, so that was the
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: only two things that I saw that were even out
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: of place at her home and in near right. I mean,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: it did not look like a calm scene like I
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: would think, you know, or I thought, I really like
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: this if it was definitely a crime. I don't fault
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: the police at all. I just, you know, I wish
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: we had done things differently, and I'm sure they feel
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the same way too, So I want to go to
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: John Limley on is what I understand was the evidence
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: at her home is Maria has pointed out she saw
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: a lamp askew. Now to many people that would not
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: mean anything, but to Tara Grinstead and everybody on the
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: program right now, if you come in to our house
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and you see a lamp turned over and crooked, E
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: there's something wrong, okay, because I can't leave with that
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: just laying there like that. I gotta fix that, Okay.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that's some kind of O C D thing,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: right Bethany Dr Bethany Marshall joining me out of l A. Well,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: I'm afraid I have the same problem, so I can't
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: help you there, but but absolutely go ahead. Well that
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: the house was really spotless. I remember looking at it,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: other than the lamp and the clock under the bed,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: it was really so well put together, and her life
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: was put together. I mean, not only was she a
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: beauty queen, but she mentored young women, and so there
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: was this sense of goodwill in her life. You know,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I think of my my mythology about beauty pageants as
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: women being backbiting and being envious of each other, and
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: that was not true. If Tera Grins did. She loved
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: her students, She loved these young women she mentored. So
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: there was a sense of her home being so wholesome
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: and her life being so wholesome. It was hard to
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: imagine that anything bad could have happened to her. So
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: you noticed that immediately. But there were other clues, Cheryl McCullum.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: There wasn't there a broken necklace of pearls on the floor,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: and actually one of the bed posts were broken. What
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: was broken? Cheryl, right, absolutely, But the biggest piece of
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: evidence to me should have been the latex glove outside. Um.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Once you have that, it should have been roped off
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: and everybody should have been brought out of there. And
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: then the second thing that resonated with me was in
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: her car. Her car was harked, but the driver's seat
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: was pushed all the way back. And Aryl was small,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, she was not a you know that tall
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: that she would have had her seat on the way back.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: So that to me was in thinking of that somebody
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: else drove that car back. Um. And again at that
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: point there could have been one person, It could have
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: been two people. But you certainly at that point know
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: that you have a crime scene. What about her car, Maria,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: wasn't it? Was it a white car and it's perfectly pristine. Oh? Yes,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: it was a white three hucker, Yeah it was. She
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: always kept it clean. She was very much closs about
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: her car and her home, but especially her car. And
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: I will say that as soon as as soon as
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I saw the glove, they did pick it up and
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: put it in the bag. Was it a latex glove
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: like eat the doctors use or was it a latex
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: glove like you used to wash dishes? Oh? No, it
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: was one like a doctor. So to Cheryl McCullum, director
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Institute, what do what do police
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: believe happened? The evening Terence goes missing, and how did
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the case finally crack? Well, the case finally cracked because
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: a lady came forward, a Brooke Sheridan, and she said
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: that her boyfriend bo Do confessed to her that his
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: friend Ryan Duke killed Para and they even knew where
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: she was and her body was recovered and so that
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: you know, it was pretty solidified at that point that
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: you know, Bruke knew what she was talking about and
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: who was Now when you say her body was recovered,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: mm hmm. Has there have been a lot of conflicting
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: reports on that. Cheryl McCullum correct. One report says that
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: she was actually set on fire and then buried, So
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: you know that'll have to come out. There are complete
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: during reports, but that will come out. But um, enough
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: was put together and the pieces were clear that there
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: have been two a rest made. So here's what to me,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the the issue is that's gonna really be a connecting
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: of these puzzle pieces is that Glove and the g
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: b I did a brilliant job in that inside that
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: late takes glove, you had the possibility of two types
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: of evidence fingerprints and DNA. So what they did was
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: they clipped off the tips of the fingertips of the
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: glove to get the finger prints. Then they swabbed the
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: inside palm to get the DNA. So there's partial DNA
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: and their singer prints. So it's either gonna Matt Boduke
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: or Ryan Duke. And there you go. What do we know, uh,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: John Limley, about these two guys? One of them, Uh,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Ryan Alexander Duke was as I had mentioned, he had
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: attended Irwin County High School, the same high school where
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Terror was employed as a teacher. And according to the
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: warrants read in court, uh Duke had been quite familiar
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: with with Tara Um had had been had visited her
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: on occasions. But this particular night, they state that Duke
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: burglarized Grinstead's home and when he discovered, they surmised that
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: he strangled her and removed her body from the house.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Now in August seventeen, UH, this is following the February
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: three um arrest of Ryan Alexander Duke. In August of seen,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: a grand jury filed four new charges against bow Dukes,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: two counts of making false statements, one count of hindering
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: apprehension of a criminal, and one count of concealing the
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: death of another. These additional charges are based on a
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Wilcox County indictment stating that bow Dukes lied to a
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: gb I official who questioned him in concerning the disappearance
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: of Terra. Back to Maria Harbor, Terra's best friend, Maria,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: when you learned that these guys had been arrested? How
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: how did you find out and what was your first thought? Um,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I had been told years and years and so that
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: when they made an arrest, the gb I would it
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: was something that was substantial. I mean, it would be
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: a major break when there was an arrest. So immediately
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: when I found out, um, that morning, UM, I knew
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: it was big, but it was like almost like excited
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: because I was happy that's something. But then I knew, well,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: if that's what it is, and there's arrest made, you know, converted,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: and there was absolutely no hope, you know. I mean,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: it was just a I knew she was dead then.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I know that sounds silly to some people because everybody said,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: well she was you know, we knew she was dead,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know. I mean, I was still holding
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: now a little hope that maybe, you know, just something
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know what, but um, that was a definitive moment.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: So I guess I was UM anxious to find out,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you know, thankful that they've gotten some closure, I guess,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: or some you know, maybe we can get some justice.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, it was just going through
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: all those emotions again, what do you know about these guys?
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Does she know them? Was she friends with them? Does
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: she mentor them? Or she just a teacher in the school.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Did they even take classes with her? Um? Yeah, she did.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Um teach Ryan, I know for sure. And Bo is
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: from a family that's known in a Silla. And like
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: I said, Osilla is so small that it's not unlikely
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: that you know everybody in the town. And um, the
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: school is very small, so you know the kids, you
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: teach them, and you could even teach them one or
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: two times in their high school career. So her knowing
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: them was was definitely you know, a possibility a matter
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: of fact. Um, I think from the very beginning I
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: knew that, you know, it just felt like it was
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: somebody that she knew because Oscila is very small and
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: it would be hard for you not to know, um
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: everyone there and and know their lifestyle enough to everyone
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: and know their lifestyle. What do we know about these
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: two bow and Ryan Dukes? What I know? You know,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: it's just what I've been told. You know that that's
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: just by their friends and you know, people that are
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: that know them very well. It's just that they were,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: um obviously both on drugs and had had a rough
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: you know a few years after high school. Um. You know,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know as far as that. I don't know
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: what she knew about them. Um. I do believe she
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: would have recognized um, Ryan if she if he you know,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: was breaking in her home or whatever, she would have
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: recognized who it was. And you know that My theory
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: is that's why he killed hers, because she would have recognized.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: What do you believe? What if the police led you
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: to believe Maria Harbor? First of all, have they told
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: you or anybody that you know of that they definitely
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: have found a body? No, I know, not a body.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I do. I do. I do believe there's been some
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: substantial you know, part of her or maybe something that
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: you know there. I do believe that they have found
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: at the end peak in Orchard that they were searching. Um. Now,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I do I believe it's a body. No, I don't
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I think that, um that they destroyed her, you know,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: for the most hearts back to Dr Bethany Marshall psycho
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Alice joining us out of l A. I mean, I
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: would never have dreamed of going, first of all, approaching
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: at one of my teachers outside of school in high school.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, if I were to even see them at
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: the grocery store them all or something, I'd probably go, hey,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: there's miss Norman or whatever. I would probably wouldn't even
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: say anything to them. But the thought of going to
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: the home to burglarize the teacher's home, it's so strange.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: There's something about this story that still does not make
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: sense to me. I think we a lot of details
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: are going to come out because my thought is that
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: either these young men were fixated with her in some
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: a strange pathological romantic sexual way and went to kill her,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: but then after the commission of the crime, made up
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: a story about burglarizing the house, or as Maria mentioned,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: that these young men were on drugs, maybe meth amphetamine.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: And one of the things we see with meth crimes
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: is that there's always an overkill effect, so that you know,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: a meth head might go in and try to steal
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: something small in order to procure more drugs. But because
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: of the nature of the crime and what that does
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: to their mental states, the the burglary, the crime aim,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: the UH, the aggression that goes into the crime is
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: way out of proportion to the situation. So it's either
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: like a stocking sex crime type of a situation or
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: very much of an overkill as a part of a
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: burglary in order to procure drugs. I think it may
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: have started as an overkill UH to Maria Harbor because
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: they were breaking in to steal and then she comes
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: home from that party, Maria, Well, I feel like she
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: was in the house and heard him, heard Ryan in
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: the house and got up in a and you know,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: obviously called him like an act. And and maybe this
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: story is why do you say that? Well, I've been
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: led to believe, you know, his story is similar to
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: that now, you know, you know, maybe it's just in
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: my mind because it's a less um. I don't know
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: if that's the word less severe, less dramatic, less um,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: you know, detailed way that um. You know, I'm sure
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: what we're going by. That's what he says. You know,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: he can say anything he wants to at this point,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: and we don't know, but I would I feel like
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: it was mainly because Okay, I know this woman. I
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: know she lives alone, I know she's single. Um, she
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: has a job. You know, maybe you know that was
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: their way of his way of finding Okay, that may
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: be an easy target, that maybe an easy robbery. And
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: so we went in her home, you know, was going
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: through her pocketbook and she approached him and just you know,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: he saw no way out it sup to kill her.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: What have you been led to believe? Have they given statements? Um,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: it's more just you know, um, and they said details
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: if that makes sense? Um, no, what do you mean?
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Just like, uh, I've gotten I guess what the thing
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: is is, I've kind of gotten speculations and parts of
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously they can't tell you exactly what they said,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: but I've just been led to believe that that was
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: what he said alleged we happened. But you know, like
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: I said, this is this is coming from him and
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: what he's told other people. So is he's not told
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: me that. I've not taught to him. I wish I could,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: but um, you know I think that that's that that's
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: pretty much what happened. But like there again, I mean,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: we're just gonna have to go by what this killer said.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: And you know he's a murder and killer, and so
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: how do you really know what happened? So what you're
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: allowed to believe is they she had gotten in bed
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: to go to bed, and then she realized they were
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: in her house. Yes, I Um, when I went in
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: her room, her bed was unmade. And like I said,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: with people there at her home that night, she should
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: have never had the bed unmade. So my theory from
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: the very beginning was she got home, got into bed,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: and then something made her get up, either leave on
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: her own or you know, somebody took her. Now, the
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: kitchen and her room her house is very small, but
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: there was nothing out of you know, other than that
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: that I saw, Like it was clear to the eye
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: except for in her bedroom. So um, you know, I
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: I he hasn't said this and I haven't been told this,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: but you know, my fear is that he, you know,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: took took advantage of her sexually, and because that was
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: her biggest fear. Um, you know, when we were younger
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: and even in our twenties, that was the biggest thing.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: You know, she was afraid that somebody would rape her,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: and you know, so obviously prayed that that did not happen.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: But um, you know, I don't know, Well, how does
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: a pecan orchard, How does the pecan orchard factor into this, Maria. Well,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: there's millions of peak in um orchards in Osceilla in
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: the surrounding counties. I mean that's a big you know,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: that's a big crop in in South Georgia. So, um,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: you know there was million We even searched millions of them,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: I mean millions of them. And um, I don't even
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: know how much land we searched. That lots and lots
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: of pecan orchards. But um, that was family land for Bose,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: is what I've been told. So I guess, um Ryan's
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Ryan took her there, and you know Bou supposedly met
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: her medi him with her there and they both took
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: care of her body. But it was bo land. Nancy,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: if I could quickly interject, we've been talking about how
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: much speculation there is over this case in recent months.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: It was just in this past October that the Georgia
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court actually heard arguments from mainly the media about
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: a sweeping gag order that had been issued in the
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: murder of Terra. Five days after beau Duke's arrest, Irwin
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: County Superior Court Judge Melanie Cross issued that gag order,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: prohibiting prosecutors, defense attorneys, family of both the victim and defendant,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: and all law enforcement involved in the case from speaking
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: to the media. She narrowed that a bit to prosecutors,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: defense attorneys, and law enforcement associated with the case. We
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: have been told her body has been burned. What she
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: endured before her death or the mode of death, we
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: do not know. And of course we've heard all these
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: grand stories Dr Bethany Marshall about the vast pecan orchards,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: and it brings into mine this huge estate. Well, let
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: me tell you something, Dr Bethany. My grandmother, Lucy had
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: a pecan orchard. Her house sat right in the middle
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: of it. And what that meant was that every day
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: after school, you know, we would go out there and
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: peak pecans and put them in plastic bags for her
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: to sell them. Okay, so it's not some you know,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: multimillion dollar operation. It's like you're it's a hard scrabble
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: way to make a living. Is what it can be.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: So I don't know how wealthy or influential these families were,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: but I know that they had lived in the town
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: for a long time. It went back several generations, and
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: and that can factor into an investigation. Bethany, Yes, and
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I remember all the footage of the pecan orchards. I
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: remember the pictures of um the so called party that
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: went on in this huge bonfire, and this idea that
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: these vast orchards went on and on and there were
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: hundreds of young people gathering and partying, and that somehow
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Tara Grinstead was a part of all this, and and
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: it made sort of the party aspect and the orchards
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: and this big bacchanalia seemed like larger than life, like
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: that that this party atmosphere had taken over the town,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: which is so different from what you're describing, which is
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: families who have lived there for generations, a very small home.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Maria's describing everything very pristine, very neat, and the sad,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: sad tale of two young men on drugs who probably
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Nancy they didn't go in to steal a big screen
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: TV or thousands of dollars in cash. Sadly, they probably
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: wanted like a clock or a ten dollar bill or
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: something really small to feel their drug habit. And then
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: all of this came from that. And Nancy, as you know,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: it's really hard to kill somebody. It's not like it
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: just happens as if by accident because somebody walks into
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: the kitchen while you're taking the silverware. I mean, this
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: was a heinous, heinous crime where something really horrible was
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: perpetrated on Terra. And I think that's what we have
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: to remember that there was extraordinary suffering, and the suffering
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: was for something so small, it was to fuel a
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: drug habit. And Um, I hope more details come out
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: so we know what happened to her. But you know,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: when Maria says that one of her worst fears was
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: being raped, it makes me so sad to think of,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: you know, possibly these fears being realized. And you know,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: what happened may have happened the hours before her death. Um,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: such a beautiful young woman, mentoring other young women, having
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: a wholesome life, turning her light on so her elderly
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: neighbors would knew that she got home at night, and
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: then it all all ended up like this. You know, Maria,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: it reminds me of so many cases I prosecuted where
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: somebody would be killed, say over a ten dollar, drugged
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: it over nothing, and then a life is gone. When
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: you hear that in those dark terms that Dr Bethany
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Marshall just described, how does that make you feel? Your
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: best friend, Terra Grins did likely raped and murdered, her body, burned,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: her flesh burned and buried in a pecan orchard in
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: them out in the middle of you know, fields and
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: fields and fields of orchards for what some money to
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: buy hit. I mean, it's very disheartening, and um did,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: to be honest with you, for the last twelve years,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: it's been a constant battle trying to, you know, just
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: get on with life and trying to go through you know, life,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: because she doesn't have one anymore, and she's not able
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: to enjoy the things that you know she deserved to
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: be able to enjoy. But I will say through all
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: that I have prayed and prayed and prayed, and obviously
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: she was a Christian, and I do believe that, you know,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: once she left the body, you know, she never felt
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: any of this other I pray that you're right, Marie,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Marie do you feel that in any way you have
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: gotten messages from her after her death, like like what, well,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I've just felt her around and I've just felt you know,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I I talked to her, you know, I talked to
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: her when I pray, and I talked to her, you know,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: when I'm in the car by myself, and I just
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: feel like she's listening. I mean, she was such a
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: good listener anyway. But it's just been over the years.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: I guess she's helped me through it, and she you know,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: from the other side, and I just feel like that
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: she is okay now. And and and I want to
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: know obviously, my biggest fear was it was someone she knew,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: someone she knew her until the last thought she had
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: was this is somebody I thought loved me or knew me,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: and and and and they're taking my life. But I
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: do believe that, you know, she didn't suffer as as
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: soon as it was apparently she was not. She was dead. That,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: you know, all the other does not matter. It does
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: matter when it comes to the justice and system and
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: trying to you know, punish these people. But I'm just
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: gonna keep believing that that she knew she was going
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: to heaven and and that was all she needed, you know,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: And at that point it didn't matter, you know. I
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: I tell myself that, Maria. I tell myself that, But
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: sometimes while I believe it's true, I find myself saying
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: that so I don't have to confront over and over
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: and over what victims lived through just before their death.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: But I know this, it ain't over yet. Nancy Grace
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Crime Story, signing off Goodbye friends,