Latest / WoT Spoilers / Return to Bandar Eban & Parley - Towers of Midnight chapters 25-26 - EP560

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Return to Bandar Eban & Parley - Towers of Midnight chapters 25-26 - EP560 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. All right,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: recording is on, Recording is on on this honkin honkin
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: set of pages, Like, not a lot happens, but god,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of pages.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: And I guess I should say sorry for missing last week.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I was fairly ill, so I pulled the plug on recording.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to make it for two hours.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry to hear that. Glad that you are back, reconstituted,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: upright hydrated. Yeah, really really glad that you're back with us.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: That gap in our recording publishing schedule happened to fall
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: perfectly onto Thanksgiving, So anyone who didn't notice we put
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: out an episode on things Giving. You probably didn't because
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: you were Thanksgiving gyzing or whatever, unless you were boycotting
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: the holiday, in which case you know, props to you.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's why that gap was there.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: We're desperately looking for audio to distract you from your
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: family holiday. In that case, sorry we missed you.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Look, we've got five hundred plus episodes you can go
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: back and listen to if you need to listen to us.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Have you heard our opinion on this? Probably yeah, you
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: probably put together.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, today We've got some very Sandersonian chapters
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: to get through. Yes, we're both here. I'm very very tired,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: so Seth might be carrying a lot of the conversation,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: but we are at least here.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: So I have things to say about these chapters, for sure.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: And there are good points. As always, there's always good
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: things in the chapters that Sanderson writes, right, there's always
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: like a couple of moments that I really appreciate that
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: he does. There's also quite a bit to criticize in
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: these chapters.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's one or two things. I'm gonna have
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to get my soapbox out.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: For all, right, But where does the term standing on
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: your soapbox come from?
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: An era of demagoguery? I think in like the twenties.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I think during the era of like populism becoming really
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a thing, people would literally get crates that soap would
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: be shipped in, and they would stand on them, like
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: in public spaces and yell about whatever the issue of
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the day was. I'm pretty I read this several years ago,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: but I remember, like, no, like it's a literal like
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: shipping crate that had like a soap brand, you know,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: stenciled on it. And like people would stand on them
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: because they were starred. You have to hold a human
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: and they would, yeah, be enough elevated and it's easy
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: to carry around, right, like they're not heavy. I could
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: be wrong about a couple of the details, like when
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: that was, but I believe it is literally a shipping
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: crate for soap.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Just a way to get above your head, above the crowd.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: And yeah, to stand high, higher and be able to
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: project your voice and such as people like look who's shouting?
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Oh that person, who's you know, eight feet tall instead
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: of six feet tall or whatever.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I was supposed to jumping up on a statue to
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: look after a woman with a plume.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly exactly or needed like an actual stage
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: right being on the back of a moving carriage, you know.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: So we come into a city that has gotten dirty moucky, right.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're returning to band our Abon after Rand abandoned
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: it and it's it shows signs of having been abandoned. Also,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: this is chapter twenty five with the sea folk goals.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: That's the chapter symbol.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Sure, yes, sorry, we jumped right into that one.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because we go talk to ce folk because again
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: the band our ebbond food situation right, right, sea folk component.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Even though they're kind of barely in this chapter but
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: sort of at the end.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Well, but they're a big part of why the food
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: situation right.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Is the way it is. Yeah, And what's the expression,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: you're only three meals away from chaos? Right? So three
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: meals was a couple of days ago.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Not is nine missed meals.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Nine missed meals three days worth of meals.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Civic orders is nine missed meals away from unraveling. Yus,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: If if you don't get to eat for three days,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: you will be looking for food very aggressively. And bandor
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: ebun has been long past that.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Because it's not even like, oh, they ate through their
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: stores of food. Their stores of food are all.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Bad, right, The food that they were gonna eat has
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: spoiled every time you go to get the next bag
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: of travel rations. It's also moldy like this, it's different.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: These are definitely Schrodinger's bags of wheat, right, Like, they're
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: not spoiled or unspoiled until you open them, and then
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: it depends on when you open them. Right. This is
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: just something observing causes the possibilities to collapse into a
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: single Yeah.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: When Rand tells the dock master, dude like, no, you
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: just didn't open enough, and the guy's like, excuse me,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: that's not how statistics work. I am with the dock master.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like, no, Rand, this was not a matter if
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: he just didn't open enough. As a matter of every
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: bag he opened, he collapsed. It's quantum state. That's what happened.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: It's different. You're gaslighting him. Rand, be nice, because.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't have mattered at the time how many he opened.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: They would have all been bad, exactly.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: If he had opened one bag and called it a day,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: all the rest would be good. If he'd opened every
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: single bag and called it a day, none of it
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: would have been good. That's the fact.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: And like, Rand is the thing that is able to
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: change that chance, right, Like, that's the whole point. He
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: changes probabilities. That's what he's able to do as the
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: dragon reborn as a taverin right, This is he's getting
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: extra severe in here. His tvereness is turned up to
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: a thousand because he can just fuck with odds in
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: the same way that Matt's able to do with dice
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: and luck. Rand's just doing it with bags of grain
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: and potatoes and clouds.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Right, That's part of the opening of the chapter is like,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the clouds have done their eerily perfect circular melt away.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: And what are the odds of that? I mean, possible
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: but unlikely, right, And so that I think that's the
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: difference between tavereness and magic. Right. The taverness is always
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: something that could happen but is highly unlikely, whereas with
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: you know, the one power, you can do things that
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: are not otherwise possible.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Right, people will never get lifted up and thrown spontaneously.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Cloud could melt away in a perfect in a perfect circle.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: And I gotta say, this whole scene right where he
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: comes in and he sort of goes to the people
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: and says, hey, let's clean this place up and we
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: can make this city better. It's very much what Brandon
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Sanderson did in The Laundress, right. His whole first novel
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: is essentially this storyline in a in a series, right,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: people who are suffering, who have become dirty, who have
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: become zombie, like, you know, just need the fact that
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: if they cleaned themselves up and got to work and
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: did some hard work, they could improve their lives and
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: improve the city and why didn't they just think of
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: that themselves? And Arady's making a gagging face at me.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: That's so disgusting. We need a big, strong, clean, rich,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: well apportioned man to come in and tell us dirty
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: stupid pores to just clean up our act, to get
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: in line and and everything will be better. I have
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: self respect now that I've washed my hands. Oh thank you, foreigner.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have known to wash my hands without your beneficence.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Like I just it's real gross.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Listen, get up and make your bed, and if you
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: do that first thing in the morning, the rest of
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: your day is gonna be perfect. If you didn't know that, Like.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really it's pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: It's white saviorism, it's classism. It's oh yes, this woman
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: who's cleaning people up, who didn't think of that until
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: a man told her to do it, Like, I bet
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: you fucking anything that this woman who's gonna be in
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: isidye someday was already doing basic water hauling and hygiene
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: and trying to control disease. And Sanderson slash Rand is
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: just like, oh yeah, I inspired her to start doing that.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Sure, buddy, sure, buddy, that woman really needed your help.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, mm hmmm. I love the rand it's really annoying.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he does have the one thing right that
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: they don't, which is the ability to open sacks of
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: grain and go, look, it was good all along.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Well, and he also does the you know, reasonably astute
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: thing of saying, let's bring resources up to the gate
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: and let these people access them and distribute them and
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: like have some agency. Like he does a little bit
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: of like top down white saviorism of coming in and
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: saving people. But then like he pulls back and he's like, no, no, no,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: let's mostly give them agency. I'm still going to take
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: all the gold stars, but like let's pretend that they
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: have agency, which is, you know, nice. I guess it's
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: a little bit better than fucking Denaris striking off all
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: the chains and getting crowdsurfed around like the one white
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: girl that's there. I guess it's better. But it's also
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: so like magical story convenience, Like and then he has
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: a squad of people who just immediately have the skills
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: because isn't that convenient. It's like, Okay, now we're back
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: into familiar tavern just making everything smooth for Plym.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I mean if this is and in a way, I
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: get it right because he's becoming super diverent. As the
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Dark One enters the world, the Dark One is pushing
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: his finger down on the bad bad things happen balance
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: And now that Rand has his moment of epiphany, he
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: has the ability to push down the other way and
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: make good things happen randomly right, and make things just
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: magically work out for him. He is balancing that the
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: evil the Dark One is doing by locally creating these coincidences.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: So I understand that, like from a plot sense, it
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: kind of makes sense for everything to just be working
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: out for him locally. Yeah, No, for sure, And if
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: that's what he's trying to do, I think he's doing
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: a wonderful job.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: And he also thinks about the shan Chan aspect of like,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: you know, when I was here, I contrasting his rulership
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: with the shawan Cha. You know, this is a level
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: of reiteration. It's like, okay, fine, we got a come
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: full circle. You're allowed to reiterate this once. He does
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: reiterate it several times, not just once, but it is
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: a point worth remembering. And then we get to like
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: one of my least favorite men's sections, like ever, I
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: love men, y'all know I love men. But first of all,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: in the audiobook, Michael and Kate have decided that Min's
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: canonically deep voice is now not deep, which drives me
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: crazy in and of itself from a perspective, from just
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: a performance perspective, but Min here is just the most
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: sexy lamp she's ever been.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: Rand, I see sunlight around you. You're gonna see everyone.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: I believe in you. You're such a big, strong savior.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I just it's so not her so much. I get
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: that Rand thinks he needs it, but I didn't need it.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I want to write a book with that character as
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: the main character and make you read it just enough.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: That was impressively creepy. Yeah no, but but actually have
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: that person be like an evil mastermind of the death
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: of a bunch of men. That's how I get you
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: to read it.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, I mean doing that as like a maniacal,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: insane creeping boys could be fun, but doing it as
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the this is a critique of my favorite character being
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the worst.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, not men do this to men, And like
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I almost even don't want to go into these viewings
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: because they're so badly generic.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is yes, there's nothing here. Oh there's sunshine,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: there's people that will follow you. Everything's gonna be all
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: right in the end.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, great, Like where's the mention of the fireflies, like
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: the let's keep track of those and the void and
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: that sort of thing. Instead, it's just this, like I
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: see the two rivers, ran, I've seen in with the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: mark of the dragon's fang inlaid on the door, no
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: longer a symbol of darkness or hate, a sign of
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: victory and hope.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Also, I think she's lying because she didn't fucking see that.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: She just said she saw that like this bullshit. That
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: is a bullshit vision. She never fucking saw that garbage.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: She hesitated, Yeah, she hesitated to make that shit up.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, the text does not describe what she sees.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: It does not describe her internal experience. It's just her
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: saying the words that Rand needs to hear out of
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: her perfect Betty Boop face. Like, I just she is
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: a sexy lamp. Right now, all of these people are
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: gonna fight. I can see it. Yeah, it's the last
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: battle and everyone with like three working limbs is gonna
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: be fighting. And then Rand's like, could you maybe not
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: insult me so much? And she's like, no, this is
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the one thing I get as a treat, just like, Okay,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: it's very juvenile, but all right, I guess if that's
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: what makes you happy, keep calling him woolhead like whatever.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: And then she turns, so she gets some viewings of
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: the people in the city who basically are like, these
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: people will fight in the last battle, right like that,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: they don't give up hope on them. You're gonna save
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: the city. The city is going to pull itself together
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: enough to fight in the last battle. Is essentially the
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: message she is able to give him, which.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Is just like, we didn't need a prophet to tell
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: us that. That's how books work, That's how the End
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: of the World hero marching through the city works. You
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: don't need a profit to make that happen.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: And this is this where she sees all the viewings
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: among all these people all at once, when she almost
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: never sees viewings you know, over non channelers.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Rant Tevere and Maxing is really even affecting her visions
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: right right totally.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: We get the sort of confrontation where she's like, he's like,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: you see me as a killer, and she's like, no,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I don't, like just because you're strang and you really
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: strangled me. I know that, wasn't you right? Like yeah,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: And they finally have that conversation, right, and she's.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Like, do you feel that in the bond. He's like no,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: and all of us in the audience are like, yeah,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: and have you been feeling that in the bond for
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the past several weeks? No, No, this is such an
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: old conversation. Stop it. Oh yeah, we also had that.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: There was a maiden earlier that I'm assuming is one
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: of those donor names. And then there's these two soldiers
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that are some I'm assuming donor names.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me I can go through them.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: It's a cool name. Heida Heida Heidia, h e I
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: d I A. And then the other two names are
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: three names actually, vote Beck, red Board, and Durnham Durnham.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't find anything for Durnham appears to yes, just
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: be here. Sorry. The Encyclopedia Watt is down, so I'm
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: sort of pulling from a couple of different sources, though
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: not my usual source. Oh Lane, sorry, Lane, I don't
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: have anything about him. Being but okay, so I'm sorry,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: that'll be fun to go together. I'm sorry. So there's
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: a couple of characters that I don't have anything for.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: But what I can say is like, I don't have
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: anything for Lane. He appears to just be the leader.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: But voter Beck is named for Nicholas voltro Beck, red
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Board is named for David Redboard. Haidia is named for
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Heidi soderqwist Quist. Later we get two river man named
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Rob Sulter. He is named after Rob Saltier. And that
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: was all of the references that I had that I
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: was able to find for these for this chapter. Oh
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Leerin Learin was the one who I was saying is
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: in Lord of Chaos. She's a maiden of the Spear,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: so she's takes Paren and Fayel to see Rand in
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Lord of Chaos, So she's just sort of a one
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: off name there, and then she's brought back in the
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Gathering Storm and then here in Towers of Midnight, so
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: she's been sort of mentioned a few times. But I
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: gotta say, having said that, you pointed out this pattern
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: where the names are said once and then for the
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: rest of the paragraph. He constantly says one of them,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: the other the man's his companion. The names are never
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: mentioned again, it's never specified which one is which, And
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: it's so obvious that he wrote that chapter and left
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: two blank spaces for the names to bed, and there's
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: no other effort to it. There's no mention of like
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: bringing those names back once or twice, or having those
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: characters appear later on in the chapter, or you know,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: even even here one of them has a couple of lines,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: but you don't know which one's talking because he just
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: says one of them said to his companion. And it's
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: just it's almost, since you pointed that out, it is
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: taking me out of the moment. It is this moment,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: this moment where I'm like, Okay, here's two names people
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: don't care about. They're clearly named after fans, and you're
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: gonna do this song and dance to avoid just retyping
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: their names once slightly later on.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I imagine he wrote it and was like, I've
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: got fifty names here, I got thirty names there, like
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: you know, we'll do it as part of the like
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: last round of copy edits or something like right, I
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: don't know, some weird order of operations Shenanigan's.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really feels like they were dropped, Like those
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: were black spaces left until like the day before printing,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: and they're like dropping the names, right.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have no idea how things work, but that's
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: what it feels like. It Like you said, low effort,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: it feels low effort. I'm not sure it wasn't no effort,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: but low effort.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Because again it's she's like, just say the name a
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: second time, or specify which of the two guys is talking.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: No, we need to reiterate that paren doesn't understand the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: difference between an axe and a hammer for the seventh time.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: That's what we need to spend our page count on.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: And so within an hour he had a group of
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: soldiers five hundred strong, Okay, Tavarin, that's called a mob.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And so they approach the docks.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Oh they've even got a leper that comes up to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the group, so that way Rand can pass off his
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Jesus responsibilities to the eyes to die who are going
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: to come behind him. And then yeah, they head off
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: down to the dock to confront Schrodinger's wheat.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's just a bunch of ships there.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they get down there, and the dock master
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: has essentially barricaded the docks against people and forbidden the
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: ships to unload because he can see that when people
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: eat the grain, they die. So he's like, I'd rather
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: watch you all slowly starve in the hopes that food
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: will come tomorrow than let you all like poison yourselves today.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: He's been stuck between literally a rock and a hard place,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: and Rand just kind of waltzes in and it's like, you,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: silly man, you didn't have to do that. The power
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: was in you the whole time. Just click your heels
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: three times and it'll all go away.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: He's like, did you check all the sacks? I checked enough,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: But did you check the sacks? What are you talking about?
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: What?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's it's this.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: And then you know what Rand does. He spills the
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: food on the floor to make a point, like bitch, please.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know it's not very much food and
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: like whatever, but people are starving, right Like yeah.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Like that was enough food for a small child to
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: get their first solid meal in a week and not
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: throw it up, Like you just let that fall on
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the floor for the cinematic cinematography, Like I just whatever,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, sure, athlon, but it's still low effort.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I like that idea that he didn't want
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: to give any fans particular treatment by putting their names
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: in twice, but like, fuck, then don't use their names right, Like, yeah,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: I I'll know. The whole thing feels. It feels very compromisy.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Like if you're writing a book based on art, why
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: this feels? Did you really need the fundraiser?
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Bob Sanderson likes to gamify every aspect of his books, right,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going to release this chapter by chapter and get
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: your feedback before I write the next chapter. Like what,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I don't pay that close attention. Do't if that's exactly
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: how it works. But I've been inundated with enough Kickstarter
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: updates that I didn't ask for to have that impression.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: No, the other thing, Okay, think about this grain. It's
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: been killing the rats. Every time the rats bite into
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: a sack and chew through it, it's killing them.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Rand, stop gaslighting this poor dog master.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: His response, what happened? We happen to open the exact
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: number of bad sacks without reaching one of the good ones.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: That's ridiculous, Not ridiculous, simply implausible. Okay, Sherlock elms.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Like bitch please. Yeah, Like he apparently understands that apologizing
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: to Irland's not going to be good enough, but gaslighting
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: him is apparently fine.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: It's totally fine.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I do like Ireline being like, you know, like,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: what have I been doing. I've been trying to keep
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: people from starving themselves? What have you been doing that?
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Dragon?
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: It's like when Morell just like totally goes off on
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: him after like the c Folk bargain and she's like,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you left in the middle of the argument. You can't
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: be mad that the bargain didn't go to the way
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you want. It's the same energy, and I'm like, I
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: need more characters to unload on rant like that this
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: is necessary. Like I am glad that he's getting yelled at,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: even though he is zen now so it doesn't have
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: quite the same impression on him, but like whatever, it's
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: still satisfying.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: So he appoints a Realian steward of the city and
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Dernham as the commander because they're the.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Only ones that didn't leave, right. He like appointed the
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: merchant councils, like you have to do an election and
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: make it all legal and every single one of those
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: rats just bailed and like here's the people who stayed.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was a whole big thing. He spent forever,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: fucking he spelt like half a book assembling that merchants council.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: That was the whole thing.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: And according to Ireland, they left in a day, twenty
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: four hours they were gone.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And Sanderson also likes to do that. He likes to
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: set up goals for the characters to spend like half
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: a book working on and be like, Oh, that didn't
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: matter anyway, We're going to do this other thing over here. Yeah,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: he does that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: A lot, Like I'm all for red herrings and killing
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: off important characters so that way you don't feel secure
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: about who's left.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: But like there's a limit, and I feel like he
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: hit that there.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I really like also Ireland's complaint we won't reach the
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: last battle, right, He's like, we're starving to the point
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: that we aren't even gonna make it to the last battle,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: And that to me is just like that's the bleakest thing.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: As the world is ending and you know this massive cataclysm,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: it's like what if you literally can't even get to participating,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Like that's the bleakest outcome of.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: All And I read something online. I don't know how
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: true this is, but I'm spreading rumors that part of
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Jordan's original plan to end the Last Battle relatively quickly
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: was basically this, that Rand was going to come to
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: a realization very quickly that the Dark One was destroying
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: the world and we weren't going to make it the
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: last battle, and that's why he would break the seals
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: prematurely to start the last Battle, because otherwise we'd all
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: be dead before it even started. And that's then you
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: were going to sort of have this like premature start
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: to the last battle.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, that would have been a good like breaking
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: break glass in case of fire kind of emergency escape
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: patch on his writing process, right like at any any book,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: he can just be like, oh, and now starvations making
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: the lines cross, we got a last battle right now.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Because he certainly foreshadowed starvation quite a bit, and with
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: the food spoiling, which is happening before Sanderson, right, that
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: was that was very much going on for a while.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I can really see that being the the
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: oh my god, we just need to fight this now,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: like because otherwise we're going to be dead and we're
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: gonna lose our strength, because he even sort of talks
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: about it a couple of times in these books where
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: he does mention like, oh my god, we can't delay
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: any longer. We are starving, we are having these problems. Yeah.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's a big part of why Parent is
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: gathering in armies because there's a bunch of people being
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: like I would fight in the last battle tomorrow than
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: starve today. That's a big part of what why Parent
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: has such an army to bring in.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: It's a big part of why the US has such
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: an army.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll feed you right up until you get blown up.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: But that's pretty much the end of the chapter for me.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: I don't have anything else to say about it.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, rand says everyone who I've touched today, and all
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: of the grain I've looked at today, all of that
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: is going to be good and perfect. I'll stay for
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours to make the spell magic cement lock
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and then on to the next thing. And then Min
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: does more weird sexy lampshit. It's like I'm surprised by
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: him every day. All look at my crossed stitch with
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: it inspirational quote. Here's my kitten picture that says just
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: hang in there. Wow, and then the chapter ends wow,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Like I did not sleep very well last night. You guys,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: my filter is low.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I think we should have you not sleep more often.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: This is great, I love men, But that means I'm
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: going to fiercely defend her when she gets written badly.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There's nothing worse than your favorite character being poorly
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: portrayed or doing something that you think goes against their
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: core you know, beliefs or the tenets that make them
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: make them who they are.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so with less than half an hour on the clock,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: you want to go to the next chap. Jesus all
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: that bitching and whining for me, and we didn't even
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: get to half an hour.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Wow. I did my fair amount of bitching and whining
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: about the name characters.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Hm.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Like I said at the top, we got a lot
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: of pages to get through, but not a lot of
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: content probably. So now we're going to go into the
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: peakiest of peaks Anderson that we could possibly have.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Shall we have another meeting between the White Cloaks and
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: parent to rehash about the ideas all over again.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: About but this time we identify Gallot right and more
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: gaze time, everyone is aware of whom Galad is up
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: to and including more Gaze, and she.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Gets called out. So that's that's that is something that
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: has been foreshadowed for a long time, right, more Gaze
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: coming out of the closet and basically being recognized as
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: the queen instead of parent servant, Like that's been set
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: up by Jordan a long long time ago, and that
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: there is payoff to that for me.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean and even to an extent, like I
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: feel like Jordan's set up a strong potential that Gallad
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: would find More Gaze. I feel like that the breadcrumbs
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: for that were there before Sanderson.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Right right, But the rest of it, oh oh boy.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: And I do love the intensity of feeling between Goalad
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: and more Gaze, Like as someone with two step parents
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: with whom I have, you know, very like strong intense
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: familial relationships with it's I really like that And she's like,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, I know, like stepparent child relations are just
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: as strong. Like if there is a parental bond, there's
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: a parental bond. It does not have to do with biology,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: It has to do with your emotional relationship. And I
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: don't know, it's kind of like not the characters I
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: would have thought would bring that through, like Gallad being like, yeah,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: stepparents are cool, but like it works, it works for me.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: They're not always evil stepparents. They're not.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: They're really not. Sometimes they're doing their best and they
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: don't fuck it up horribly in the process.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: It's just parents usually fuck it up in the process.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Stepparents are not. Yeah, a little bit bit right. It
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: turns out being a parent's hard. So I've been told, yeah,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: but you.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Know more Gaze talks about how she loves him as
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: much as the children she actually had. Gallaud like doesn't
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: ever talk about feeling like distant or held back from her,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Like he lost his mom really early and she stepped
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: in with a wholly open heart and like the relationship's good.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: M So I like that part of this, but everything
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: else is like, yes, parent, we know you don't understand
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: how acts in Hammer's work. Congratulations. I mean literally, remember
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the last time we were with parent and he like
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: used a wood axe to like chop wood without thinking
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: about the conflict once and then he's up here being
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the Yeah, the acts and the hammer different. I just
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: thought of that for the first time. This chapter right.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Right, right, not the whole book that was all based
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: around him cutting off someone's hand and throwing the axe away,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: because he's never you know, I mean, I would say
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: he's trying to reflect on that moment. But yeah, so
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: it starts off with the Ashman basically saying we can't
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: make gateways or skim which I do like that he
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: threw in skimming as well, right, that was that was nice,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: But essentially that means we know the dome is up,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: don't The dream spike has been activated.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: In its final location for purposes of this conflict of
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: the trap. Yes, yes, the trap is now positioned.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Right right, And essentially it would have sprung if the
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: White Cloaks weren't there because they're kind of in the way,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: and the shadow Spawn don't want to attack both at once.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: They want to surprise Paren and his soldiers as they
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: troop through there, So they're waiting for this conflict end
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: to attack, right.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're assuming that the White Cloaks and Paren will
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: sort of soften each other up and then the trap
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: proper can spring.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Right right, But in the meantime, nobody's traveling anywhere, right.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: The ausmorn like, yeah, we just haven't practiced enough. And
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, guys, I need you to take the oath
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: against lying because that was a lie like we've seen
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: you make. So this is not an issue. A practice
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: like this is something different than a lack of experience.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Like a parent thinks about his army with a bunch
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: of very classic metaphors. They're like boulders, like sapling, oaks
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: like adders. He's you know, looking at his troops being like, yeah,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: analogy montage, I'm so literate, so literary.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: And how he's letting all he's letting the women train,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: he's letting people if they want to fight, and he
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: has this moment of he's like, if they want to
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: fight in the last battle, who wanted to stop them?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: And then goes and I need to send them home.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Look, he's protective of everyone and he lets fail be
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: anywhere near him at all. Very beneficent, very you know.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Love love to just see him letting his wife make
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: choices really great, awesome.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: By shoving her in the back with all the isid
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: ion channelers, whether she's away from everybody, Yeah.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very respectful, super you know, caring about her agency. Yep, Yeah,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: love that. Love that.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Listen to understanding thing. You have to understand its parts
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: and its purpose.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: But the hammer was different.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: The acts only kills, but the hammer can either create
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: or kill. That is the difference. Thank you Sanderson for
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: spelling that out.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can choose not to kill. I'm able to
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: choose choice. Wow, it's like the power of friendship going
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: to carry us through too, Like come.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: On, classic tale instead of show. Yeah. No, this is
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: again the showing that we saw when he cut off
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the man's hand and threw away the axe. That was
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: the moment. He didn't need to really ever think about
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: it ever again.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: But then we have this, this lovely little piece of
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: hip hopocracy. The Shidow needed killing, but I don't know
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: if the White Cloaks do. Let's not spend eighteen pages
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: pondering the hypocrisy of that statement, because I would argue
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: that the White Cloks need killing more than the Shadow,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: because they've been doing what they've been doing for generations.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: The Shadow have been running rampant over the countryside for
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the past six months. The White Cloaks have existed for
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many centuries, but more than one,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to judge by the way they talk about their founder,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: like They're way more of an established hate group that
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: causes problems than the Shadow running rampant. Like, maybe they
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: both need to be killed, but like, I don't know
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: if the White Cloaks need they need killed. They are
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: a hate group, They're an avowed hate group. Their entire
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: goal in life is to torture and kill people. Kill
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: them all, please and thank you. At least if you're
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: going to just throw all million Shadow under the bus,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I think we can also throw the KKK under.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: The bus, right, because don't forget, the Shadow is also
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: a clan of men, women.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Children, people who joined their society because their clan was
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: doing things that didn't agree with. Like, it's so the
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Shidow needed killing because they're scary foreigners.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: The brotherless joined the shidow because they didn't believe in
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: your white savior, uh huhh.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: And therefore they're all just equally culpable. And in the
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: fact that your wife, your single white woman prize, had
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: taken off of its pedestal, and so you just get
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: to do a fucking scorched earth policy on an entire
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: population of displaced foreigners to get your one precious pussy back.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I love Fayo but like, come the fuck on, parently,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I'm allowed to just kill thousands of people to get
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: my wife back, Like she's a grown ass adult person,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Please be reasonable.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: That's why I really would have liked it if he
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: had taken down if the Brotherless had gotten her out,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: gotten her to him in the course of the battle.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: He took down the Shadow, but then recruits all the
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Brotherless to fight for him underneath Rand indirectly where he's like, well,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: you're not fighting for Rand, but you're fighting for me,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: and that's how you get to toticipate in the last battle,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and he brings this whole cohort of ideal back into
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: the fold and into the fight kind of.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Like how a lot of the ideeld that get hit
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: with the the emptiness, the bleakness. Yeah, how a lot
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: of them end up joining up with the Tuatha on
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and then end up essentially being part of the like
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: medical triage in the back. Sure it's like coming through
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: and like dealing with who's wounded at the end, and
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: like they are essentially helping They've been looped back around
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: through some means that would have been.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Great, and some of them wake up. I think they
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: do say that some of them come out of their
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: stupor meaner and angrier and ready to fight, right Like,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: some of them are like coming out of that stupor
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: that they've been in for like two years, ready to
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: fight in the last battle.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you've got pair and pointing you at
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: a wall of trolls, it's hard to hold onto despondency,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: right right, like those golden eyes, those slavering jaws, Like, yeah,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: I think pick it up a spear again is about
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: the move for me?
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, this is the end of the world. There's
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: a little bit of like, Okay, it's the end of
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: the world. Sure, personal like honor maybe needs to be
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: put aside for a moment.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I also really would have liked it if Paren had
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: done his dream level up sooner to get putt Fayeel out,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: you know, if he had done his whole montage training
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: with Hopper and like snuck Fyel and the others out
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: through the dream and been wafled up on the dream
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: before and just left the Shadow to stew in their
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: own juices.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: No, right, yeah, because if he had his teleport skills,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: he could have just teleported in, gotten her out, teleported out, Like.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he could have taken all of the guys shine
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: out in the course of like three nights. That could
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: have just vanished into literal thin air because Paren has
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: like dimension hopping brain. But alas we have to go
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: with kill foreigners foreigner's bed. Also, the KKK is redeemable, right.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: I think that's that's what's so hard about the white
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: cloaks is just like they just don't have any redeemable
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: qualities and they're not even good troops, Like, what do
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: you what's the point of rescuing them. It's not like
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: they're they're they're even crappy cannon fodder.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: To prove that white men on horses in white robes
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: who think that they're right about everything can be redeemed
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: if you talk to them real nice and smile real pretty.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: They just have to be nice to them and they
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: will solve the male loneliness epidemic.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: The whole point of this chapter is how easily it
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: would be for Paren to wipe them out because they're
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: so ineffective as troops.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: I know, I don't think Sanderson understands a lot of
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: the things that we are critiquing a right, all right,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: So Paren does his big flash bang booming voice thing. Oh,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: that would be really dumb if we showed all of
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: our hand right at the very opening thing. But also
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: now we've proven that we could kill you. Also, do
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: you want to meet now?
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And don't get me wrong, I like this move.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: I really this is a moment that sticks with me
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: the whole like just flexing to be like, Okay, you
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: want to attack, let's show you what you can do.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Because it doesn't They can still use the Auschman to
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: attack if they charge, they can still use their bows.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: And they wasted some arrows, but not that many. They
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: presumably have an infinite number because you know.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: D and D rules.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, DND rules, Right, it'll actually count those things anymore.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: They're just they're just always there when you reach form.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Not until the final battle, when the last five seconds
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: are going to take the last fifteen minutes of the
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: movie to get through, right.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Right right then everything else you have enough cut scenes
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: to reclaim your rows or make more or whatever. Yeah,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: but yeah, you gave away our advantage. I'm like, well, yeah,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: they gave it away, But like, what else are the
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: White Cloaks going to do except charge? Right? They have
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: no choice?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Well, in fairness, Arganda is a charging is the strategy
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: kind of guy. He doesn't know how to operate with
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: more than charge as an option. So in fairness, he
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: is well matched to the white cloaks.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And one would assume gallad Has could do more if
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: he had, But yet all he has is people on
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: horseback against channelers and bowmen. Like what else is he
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: going to do?
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't have archers, no at all. So yeah,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: and which is why he capitulates, right, he has his decisions,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: his mind's been made up. But then he's told like
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: face slaughter or talk to me again, and he's like, fine,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: I'll talk.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Or the archers he does have, you know, don't have
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: the two rivers length, so they can be attacked for
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: quite some time before they can return fire, before they
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: get close enough.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Right like horse bows, right, So they're not good in
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: a distance fight.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: No, So it's like, yeah, they can essentially be white
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: out on the on approach, and the ones that do
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: make it through, I'm sure will be easily taken down.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Horses are large targets.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you fuck up the ground, the horse's
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: charges doesn't work.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, horses are running around on their middle finger. They're
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: very easy to screw up.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: So true, isn't that creepy?
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: It is? It is those anatomical drugs where it's like, oh, yeah,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: they're just rocking around on this like they're like saying
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: fuck you, but in a really like.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: On way, like ballerinas telling you to go fuck yourself.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's it's easy to see when you see
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: a human arm and a horse's leg, it is easy
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: to understand why they get broken so easily. Like, oh,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of animal to have balanced on the
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: tip of one finger. You're a big horse.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine like an horses get to what six pounds,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: eight hundred pounds.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Something like that. They can crush your foot without meaning to.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: They're that heavy, and.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: They're doing that all on one toe on.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: One on the middle finger. It's so bent back, and
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: then their ankle is like halfway up the leg. It's ridiculous. Anyway,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: courses in war are amazing until they're not, and they're
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: a major liability. So rolls up and is like, wow,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: you're so different, so decisive, and parents like, I'm literally
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: being the most indecisive I could possibly be right now.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: But sure, great.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: There was this line where she says, something's changed about you.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out what, and I honestly, I'm
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: not sure what she's talking about. Right. Is this the
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: moment when he decides not to kill them like he
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: has Is she referring to the moment when he realizes
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: then axe is not for killing. Is that supposed to
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: be a major epiphany that something has changed in in
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: this moment because he finally realized because he said it
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: out loud to himself instead of when he threw away
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: the axe.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: That's the best I got is that paren had a
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: moment of revelation, and I fail instantly clocks it again.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I think he just kind of made a decision, and
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: she was like, oh, you've you've gotten down off the fence.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I can tell that you're no longer hovering on the fence.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: You've now picked a side. But I just I don't
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: buy it. I think that's what's I think that's what
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Sanderson's selling, but I'm not buying fair enough.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree that there is a moment there where
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: we're supposed to see this as a major revelation that
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: he's finally figured out the axe and the hammer thing,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: and it just doesn't. It's it's not earned exactly.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: And Fayil doesn't he even have the ability to smell
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: his emotions, so you know, as Athlone said and chuck,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: she could smell self revelation obviously.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Which takes me to the Glod pov switch.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, let's go over to an almost equally
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: frustrating character in this scene.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: So Glode is all like, oh, I was prepared for
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: ice at I channeling because you can just give them
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: a polite nod and say I will not kill you
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: and they're not going to attack back.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: In the middle of a battle, just g nod politely
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: and walk away. That's a super realistic way that battle works.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Catch totally totally. But he's sort of saying, oh, they've
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: got channelers that aren't tied by the oaths, and I'm
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: that's making him rethink because he's you know, got half
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: a brain on like the rest of the white Cloaks
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: that have no brain where he's like, oh, maybe a
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: charge at channelers isn't such a good idea.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe a run uphill at archers and channelers is not
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: gonna go well for me. Hmmm yeah, real orange cat
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: energy right here, He's getting his one day with the
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: brain cell.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: And so he sort of is like, fine, well, Parlay,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Bornhauled and Buyer are really pissed off about it because
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: well Bayer at least has been brain thrilled by Grendall. Right, Yeah,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: I was kind of looking for like moments of by
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: our compulsion evidence. I really only found like one, like
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: his eyes burned with a wild zeal that match Borne
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: holds Anger, And I'm like, okay, fine, the zeal could
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: be the compulsion, the hate, but.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: That's also the white Cloaks. It's the same thing that like.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Was all followers.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's it's one of those things that the
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: human brain can throw up. I mean, honestly, if I couldn't, like,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I can barely remember which one of them is compulsed
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: because they are such a match set. Like I know
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: that like Bornhold because he's the younger Bornhold, he's the
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: one that like isn't as corrupted and like does the
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: ultimate status friend in the back. Like I can remember
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: that logically, but they behave in ways that are so
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: identical that yeah, I don't really think you can tell
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: the difference between the compulsion and the naturally came by
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: it honest hate, you know, like Bornhold is working from
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: incorrect information, but his hate is at least organically generated.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: He thinks that Peri killed his father, and that's that's
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: you don't need magic for that. And Bayer, you know,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: they can psyke each other up just fine without magic.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Well, and if we go back, Bayer was the one
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: who like took him captive and had the acts, and.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Like the younger Bornhold wasn't there in that whole first interaction.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: It was only the elder Bornhold.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: And and Buyer who likes y. Yeah.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Buyer was just a bad guy from from the.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Yep by our God. Yeah, and that's yeah. In this
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: the thing is like there seems to be some attempt
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: to redeem him a little bit here and be like, oh,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: he's not as that bad.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: But he was bad before Grandell ever got her clause
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: into him, like he was let me help you escape
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: so that I can kill you while running away in
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: book one, like yeah, no, he's not redeemable.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: That's right. He threw the rock down and was like
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: try and escape, yes, and then yeah.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's too inconvenient for us to take because
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: we can't stalk the princess and we can't stalk the
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: andoran noble kids if we're slowed down by taking you
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: into custody as a as a murderer. So we're just
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: gonna have to kill you. And like they're just the
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: way they do the extra judicial killing situation is so yeah, No,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: there is no redeeming this guy. I like that Bornhold
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: the younger is redeemable because he is misled and there
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: is something to redeem there. But like Bayer gets way
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: too much, Oh is he redeemable screen time given that? No,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: now he's a two dimensional villain.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Bayer definitely gives some like sprinkle some crack on him Johnson, right,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: like shoot him down, plant some evidence, and call it
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: a day, and then you don't have to worry about
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: it anymore.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly. This is a cop who does not
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: hesitate to plant drugs on people. That's who Buyer is.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I Er did not have to be convinced. Bornhold had
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: to be convinced. Bornhold had to be lied to that
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: this is what your dad really wanted. And then once
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: he realizes that his dad didn't want that, he's like,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: excuse me, friend, I need to stab you in the back.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Now you lied to me.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: M hm.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Buyer was always very okay with the lion.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: And that is the moment where they like they try
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: and redeem Bornhold's by having him stab by her in
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: the back.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Which I mean, stabbing your closest buddy who's been psyching
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: you up into a hate frenzy for the past three
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: years in the back because he's going to kill the
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: guy you hate. Is a pretty big mark in the
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: redeeming call him like, that's a big act. It's a
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: very big act. Anyway, We're not there yet. For now,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: we are at Gallude having his second impression of parent
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: and going, wow, I can really read this man very specifically.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: He's a He's a simple countryman who's noble enough to
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: have elevated himself to Lord. How perfect. So what is
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: that hot chick doing next to him?
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, she's so hot. I want to like play
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Strangers in the Night in the background while we do
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: the segment right like strangers and the seeing each other
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: very much like slow motion eyes meeting.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: He's instantly like, why would this beautiful woman be following
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: a creature? Like he knows her, He knows her soul,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: he knows everything there is to know by her she's
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: so fucking hot.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: But at the same moment we later get from her POV,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: she's doing the same thing, like who's that hunk of
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: a man white cloak? And please don't attack him. He's
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: just so gorgeous. He can't be in a battle. That
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: would be such a waste. No.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, both of their hair is like blowing back in
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: a fan that no one else can see, right.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sparkles and lens flair.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah exactly. Everyone else is just like, why
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: are they looking at each other like that?
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Totally people their friends are like snapping in their ear,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: like hey, barely, barely.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Barely, right exactly exactly.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Glode thinks he's being cool, but his like jaws just
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: like dropped open. Yeah exactly.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: He's like, my name is dallad Galla meant, why.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Is everybody whispering in slow motion? Oh? We just do that.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: When she walks in, it's fine.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: M and yeah, so now Paren finally gets a name
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: or Glad. This is technically before more Gaze walks in,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: which is I guess why her gasp of recognition is
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: later is because she doesn't walk in until after the
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: introductions are right.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Right, they bring in the tea later. She's part of
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: the You know, they don't have the tea set up
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: beforehand for some reason, even though they have the pavillion
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: set up. You think they set up to tea too,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: but I guess it's all so fast they didn't need
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: time to boil the water or something, right, Yeah, whatever,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we spend pages doing proper introductions between all
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: the queens behind Parent.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: And the really funny thing though, was Goalad and Barely
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: and are clearly having like their meat cute moment, and
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Parent just keeps interjecting like into it, like he has
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: no idea. He's third wheeling on to meet cute, like
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: they are trying to oh small talk about things, and
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: he's like, news update anyway, news update, I can offer clarification.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: They're trying to flirt, sir.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Actually, you know, it ruinds me a lot of the
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: night I met Never and Travis was there and he
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: kept trying to talk to us, and we're like, excuse us,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: we're flirting over here, and so are flirting. No, The
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: difference is I was I would say, Travis got the
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: hint very quickly and was like, you know, I'm gonna
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: head out and you too should stay, and he definitely
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: kept us. Yeah, he didn't miss the hints of my parent,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: who's where it's going right over his head?
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which in parents' case, it's definitely the autism. It's
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: definitely is. He is tunnel vision focused on getting this
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: meeting done and he is not going to notice spur
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: of the moment dynamics between people.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: And even if he did, he does not give a shit.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Well, also that also.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: That he's like, that's not important, but he never picks.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Up on it.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: He is shocked when Berlin starts hooking up with or
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: starts hanging out with a lot, He's like, why did
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: that happen? That makes no sense. It's like you can't
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: smell a rousal. You can smell jealousy, but you can't.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Smell a rousal.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but that woman needs now underwear as of
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: right now. I'm sure you can tell. I don't know
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: what horning and smells like voujie, but if he can
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: smell indecision with a touch of defiance, he can definitely
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: smell horniness. No, we know what he takes horniness smells
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: it because he says, oh, that special extra fial smell
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: that she always gets. It's extra strong when she's extra passionate,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: and it's like, Okay.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe it smells different on different people.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it's just more them. Whatever their smell is,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: it gets stronger. That's what Horning in the smells like. Canonically, Yeah,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: doctor pants, That's that's correct. I'm just saying like that
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: is one of the most like physiologically apparent quote unquote
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: emotions that you're gonna find. So with the amount of
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: reading people's minds with his nose that he's been doing,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: like that level of a whoa should be pretty clear.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: That in fear, I feel like, are the two that
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: are really going to like make you know that your
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: heart's gonna race and you're gonna start sweating right sweating?
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. Your eyes are going to like change
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: their dilation status.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: The casual racism Abara's wife regartt a goal out with suspicion. Yes,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: she was obviously obviously Saldean by that nose anyway, a
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Jewish princess.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: What Also, like how he he hears this news about
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Elaine and rand probably hooking up and he's like, yeah,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: that tracks I'm not even gonna address totally apparent potential
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: insult to my sister because that's actually probably true.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: I know her, that is, and she's like, I do
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: remember the way he she like looked at him in
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: the fucking garden, right.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Like him exactly.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Then they they iterate the debate, you did a murder,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I did a self defense wolves. Aren't people fuck you that?
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, because that we're gonna go through that
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: argument so many times. Yeah.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And then the other name that's relevant here is Galad. Apparently,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: in the course of all this has learned that a
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: GWayne was there. This is news to him, but he's like,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: what a GWayne was there in that moment?
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Obviously she can't be a character witness because now she's
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: you know, mad pope.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: But uh, you know, magic Pope.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I've been describing we have time to a lot of
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: non readers over the past few months, so I've gotten
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: really used to using like my euphemisms to describe it
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: to people who are not up on the lore.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: Female magic pope. Yep, excuse me, T went down the
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: wrong pipe.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: That's not for breathing. Don't breathe that.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: I know I'm not supposed to breathe tea. You think
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: it was the smoking that would make me cough, But nope,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: it's the tea.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: At least the smoke is meant to go in your lungs.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: No, it's really not. But we'll stick over that more
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: so than the tea.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: More than you intended to put it in your lungs.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Let's put it this way.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Fair enough, fair enough.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Whether or not your lungs agreed to that, its a
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: separate issue. Yeah, exactly. Matriarchal Vatican is the White Tower.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: Magic, matriarchical that matriarchal Vatican.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Everyone knows the Vatican's magic. That's a given.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Well, no it's not. It's blessed. Listen. Monks and sorcerers
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: are two very different classes. We've discussed this. You can't
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: overlap this. This is actually true.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah you should, though.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: So income the tea right incomes more gaze right tea at.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: A war party, these are uncultured swine who serves tea
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: and a war party people who need you to meet
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: your stepmother again for plot reasons, that's who.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: And so they discuss a trial and they're like, a
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: trial would be great, but we don't have anyone to
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: trust to actually judge the trial, because there we have
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: my people and your people, and I don't trust your
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: people and you don't trust my people. Yeah, And so
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: then more gaze pops out, and it turns out she
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: could be the perfect judge because apparently if he vouches
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: for her, everyone will trust her. It seems odd to me,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: but okay.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Look, it's a cult, and if you can co opt
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: the leader of the cult, then the rest will follow.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: They're like horses. If you contame the stallion, the rest
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: of the herd will follow.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: No worry about his influence over her, having you know,
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: been her boss the past, you know, six months. No
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: worry about favoritism.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Look, queens are a different level of person. They are noble,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: They are correct, They can do no wrong. Look at
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: how white and patrician her faces. Look at the angle
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: of that knows can she possibly be anything other than
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: a paragon of virtue.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: No objections over the fact that she trained in the
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: White Tower, and these don't men don't trust anyone who
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: trained in the White Tower.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: She's pretty and she was powerful Rago, She's good.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: No mention of the fact that his whole point of
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: killing Valda is because he killed this woman and they
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: all support him because of that. And then this woman
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: is alive and they're not going to worry about that
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: and be like, oh, hey, you killed our master and
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: you were wrong.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like does she not have prejudice against your entire organization?
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: That's like way more valid than helping you destroy the
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: man who's been like keeping her alive and safe for months.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: But I mean, just her presence undermines God's claim to
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: lead the White Cloaks.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, he killed Walda on basis of assault and murder.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: The assault still happened, Like that's still a fact.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: But if the murder didn't, wouldn't you then question if
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: the assault even happened and if he wasn't working together
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: with his mother to set up Valda to take leadership
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: over the White Cloaks in an illegitimate way in order to.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: The White Cloaks are very happy to handwave that, Yeah.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: To then turn around and completely change their mission completely
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: ally with Channelers when it's being manipulated, Like these are
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: conspiracy minded theorists. They're not going to be like, oh,
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Golaude's connection to the White Tower doesn't make sense, you know, Like, yeah.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: It does feel like he should get stabbed in the
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: back by Traum at this point.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't like the change of loyalty
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: of the White Cloaks. Just doesn't they should They should
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: be need to be wiped out.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: It's not earned, it's not earned. No, it would be
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: fine if Gollad decided to abandon the White and join
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: up with Paren, and a few of his most loyal
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: people were like, yeah, fuck it, we're going with Galad
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: over the order, Like I could buy that, you know.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Fifteen of them come over and they're you know, incorporated,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: slowly but just they all fall into lockstep as the
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: White Cloaks. Nah, not earned.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: No, I'd rather see him with a contingent of brotherless
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: and wiping the White Cloaks out than the other way around.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: And Galad, yeah, just kind of hiding there with his
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: tail between his legs, being like I fucked up. I
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: fucked up so much, I fucked up so bad.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: And they have them turn on him and have Paren
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: rescue Galad from the White Cloaks.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Paren rescues Galad. That would have been fun, right, Goalad
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: thinks his needs defending. Yeah, that would have been good.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: That would have been real fun and we could have
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: gotten rid of all but the one good white cloak.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: But alas instead we get a trial.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: A bullshit trial. Yeah, I mean not in the sense it
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: is like legally bad, but just in thestense that there's
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: way too many pages spent on relitigating things that never
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: needed litigated, and.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Not to mention like skipping over all the white cloaks
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: you murdered when you rescued Gaul like, I'm just not
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: gonna mention that.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: I never gonna mention that skipping over all of the
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: villages that those people wiped out, skipping over the part
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: where anyway, we're litigating this to the point that we
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: could write a whole other Sanderson chapter about it. So
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: let's get to more gaze, more gaze and glad eye contact, gasp, hug,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: holy shit, wow, great moment.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: M hm.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: And they don't. She doesn't even say anything hardly. She's
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: just like, yes, I will transition immediately to more gaze,
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: no problem anyway, Yeah, I am more gaze.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: That's not going to blow out my life at all.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: Reiterates that she renounce the crown so she's not a
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: threat to a lane and then kind of and I
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: do like the one thing where she's like, I fear
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: more from the White Cloaks than I do from paren
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Right she was.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: That's a good line. That's a good damn line.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: I have far more to fear from your associates than
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: from par and A. Bara. Yes, she did have reason
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: to distress the children, good reason. Yeah, you think that's
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: the whole point of you killing Valda is she was captured, manipulated, raped,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: and assumed murdered.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the idea is that the assault is
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: that everyone knew she was being tortured because she was
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: literal again like you know, like needles under the fingernails,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: kind of tortured, like they that everyone knew that, and
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: then they kind of assumed that she got killed. So
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: like him attacking the man for assaulting his mom is like, yeah,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: I mean she was being tortured. Everyone knows that this
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: is going on for a while. It's not like it
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: was a secret to the White Cloaks.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: And this is also why it's so unbelievable that the
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: spymaster didn't know who she was, uh.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Huh, or didn't know Yeah, ball were not connecting the
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: Galad thing. It's just nope. And then and then Galad
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: has his very parent esque moment. I'm beginning to see
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: child byer.
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: We must prove.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Our claims, otherwise we're no better than us. Nawah Wow.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Man who decided to become part of a paramilitary force
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: that does extra judicial murder, you've discovered the concept that
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: the law matters. Princeling, who has a black and white
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: approach to morality and justice and has been a rules
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: lawyer since he was old enough to talk in complete sentences,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: You've just discovered the concept that doing things without proper
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: legal justification is absolute fucking horse pucky. Okay, all right,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: sure you hadn't. Does it never cred you before? I?
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Sure, fine, I'm sure more Gase never lected him on something.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Like that, not once, not once, but once, but sure,
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: grown man explain that to another grown man who also
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: is old enough and scary enough to have killed several
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: people because he thinks that he understands the law already.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: I think what pisses me off so much about these chapters,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: in these sections is just how much it infantilizes the
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: characters and makes them feel like they don't know what
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: they should know and that they don't exist in a
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: world where they like are smart people who have agency.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: It feels like they're just like forgetting things that they
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: should know, and it leaves weird holes in these characters.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: It makes stuff feel not earned, It makes stuff get
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: reiterated that shouldn't be reiterated. It's funky. But Parent does
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: manage to get all of his people in supplies released
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: as sort of collateral on doing the trial, which is
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: good leadership negotiation, I guess. And then they set a
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: date for three days and we get to close the chapter.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. The only other thing I think I
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: forgot to say is in the previous chapter when Rand
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: was doing his whole like let's unite and fight back,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: it felt very much like Terry Goodkind in one of
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: his books where the hero goes and do basically a
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: communist society and shows them the wonders of capitalism and
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: they all unite together and start building shit. And I
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: just wanted to say that and be like, there's a
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: book like that that Terry Goodkind wrote, and there's a
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: reason Terry Goodkind is trash. But Terry Goodkind has a
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: little more of the political implications, I think. But again,
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: it does feel just weird in that chapter it's got.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: A very eurocentric, top down, patriarchal this is the pyramid
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: we've all been living under kind of vibe were it's
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: just like, you don't got any fun plot twists, no
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: interesting twelve year old girls who are actually running the
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: most effective street gang that can hand you the city
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: on a silver platter. Already, none of that. A big
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: strong man with a chest of gold shows up and
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: starts telling people what to do, and everyone yes, sirs
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: their way into a neat, orderly formation.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: That's what we do.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Anyway. I'm glad that some people in the audience apparently
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: like what we have to say, because God, that was
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of bitching.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah it was. It was, you know what, And I'm sorry,
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: but sometimes it's just not good. And I hate to
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: be the one to say that, but like, it's just
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: there's parts of it that are not good.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: There's parts of it that are good, though I do
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: hope that we're giving oxygen to the parts that we like.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: There are parts of it that are very good. They're
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: parts of that are amazing. Yes, and I love that
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: it got finished, and I, by no means expect every
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: chapter to be perfect. When someone else is writing, taking
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: over for someone else and writing in a different style. However,
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: as you're going through it solely chapter by chapter and
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: not looking at it as a whole, there are peaks in,
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: there are valleys.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why today's episode was an hour long.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Hey, at least we didn't do that one chapter where
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: we skipped it and everyone got really angry at us.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: You get one of those per fourteen book series.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: We really had nothing to say about it. We were like,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man, there's nothing going on.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: When I was putting together the compiled episodes for the
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: Patreon I got to that one and I was so
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: confused when the download just snapped by, and then I
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: loaded it into the end of my dow to put
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: it together, and I'm like, no, that file has to
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: be broken. They're not supposed to be that short. As
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: I listened to, I was like, oh, oh right, But
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: I never make three minute episodes. It's accept that one
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: time I did, except that one.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: Time you did.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: All right, well, are you able to be done with
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: this and go do the other project?
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. Thanks for joining us once again.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: I kind of want to do patreons, but I hate
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: to do them in front of such a depressing episode.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: We'll find another chapter.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: We'll find another chapter for pat. Yeah. Yeah, Thank you
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: so much for everyone who's been donating and contributing.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: Really appreciate it all right, bye bye.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Please rate and review us on your podcast app, and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watts
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: more podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: at foxendravenmedia dot com.