Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 41: Issac McBride | Development, Recruiting, and Playing for a Greater Purpose

Transcript

EP 41: Issac McBride | Development, Recruiting, and Playing for a Greater Purpose · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

0:00
Was going through what they call flow state today, but I like to
0:02
call it fruit, fruition of repetition.
0:05
And it's honestly like seeing the fruits of your reps at a
0:08
different pace than you've ever done it before.
0:10
What can you see that in a program that isn't talked about?
0:14
What can you visibly see when you watch a practice, when you
0:18
watch a little documentary, short films on them?
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Things like what can you visibly see that stands out in their
0:23
culture that before that coach comes and recruits you.
0:26
You already know Steve Nash and Chris Paul can make a mistake.
0:29
Why can't Oz McBride make the mistake down the stretch?
0:32
It starts to become an alleviator of like, hey, like I
0:35
can make mistakes. I can be human.
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It would be cool and refreshing to start having conversations
0:40
about what do you want to do after you're playing career or
0:44
or what do you want to do in your college tenure here that I
0:47
can ensure and help you that will make your life better
0:51
outside of basketball. Whether it be talking about
0:53
business, whether it be talking about other trades that you we
0:56
want to get into, whether it be talking about setting you up for
0:59
financial literacy so that you're not bankrupt after you
1:02
make this certain in IO money, things like that so you can
1:04
carry it over and have generational will.
1:07
There's a lot of kids, believe it or not, that are wanting to
1:10
have those conversations with their coaches.
1:12
I would be hypocritical to say I want to play with purpose, but
1:16
just because I'm throwing some money then the purpose goes out
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the window. Welcome to the Strength in
1:28
Numbers podcast. I'm your host John Bloom, and
1:30
today's guest is Isaac McBride. Isaac played college basketball
1:33
at Kansas, Vanderbilt and Oral Roberts and most recently in the
1:37
G League with the Santa Cruz Warriors.
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At ORU he was a three times all conference player, the
1:41
conference champ, the 2025 Summit League pre season player
1:45
of the year and averaged over 19 points per game and back-to-back
1:49
seasons. And he is one of the most elite
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pure scorers I've ever witnessed.
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He's also an incredible role model, impactor, and
1:55
communicator. We dive into his development as
1:57
an athlete, his advice for athletes making the jump from
2:00
high school to college, and the most impactful things his
2:03
coaches have done to help him as an athlete.
2:05
Isaac also gives an athlete's insight on how college coaches
2:08
should approach recruiting and official visits to find the
2:12
right fits for the program. Lastly, he gives a must listen
2:16
to powerful answer on why he turned down bigger programs and
2:19
more money to stay at or you for his last season.
2:22
If you're getting value from these conversations, give the
2:25
show a follow and leave a review.
2:26
It helps us continue to reach and impact more coaches.
2:29
Let's get into today's episode. Mackie man, it is it is awesome
2:32
to get a connect with you. You know right now we're both
2:35
we're both iced in. So this is a great time for us
2:37
to do this with with most of the most of the nation is shut down
2:40
a lot by the weather. So man man, thank you for for
2:44
being here. I.
2:44
Appreciate you. Thank you for having me on.
2:46
Yeah, for. For people that don't know who
2:49
you are, if they're college basketball fans, they should
2:51
know who you are because you're one of the best scorers I've
2:54
ever seen the last couple years of college basketball.
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But if they don't know who you are, man, who is Isaac McBride?
2:59
So I'm Isaac McBride, I'm a native of Little Rock, AR and
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like you said, like basketball world may know me as you know
3:06
one of them better mid major players over the past two years
3:10
I've been blessed with that opportunity playing some great
3:12
coaches had great guys in my corner like you and a lot of my
3:16
staff, a lot of my teammates. So that's, it's kind of just a
3:19
rundown of me from athletic standpoint as a person, whole
3:22
person. You know, I, I'm a believer in
3:24
Christ. I have a great family who loves
3:27
me, a family of four and my sister Maya and my dad, Isaac
3:30
senior and my mom and Miss Barbara.
3:32
And, you know, especially me as a person, you know, I enjoy,
3:36
enjoy life to the fullest as much as I can.
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And I'm just blessed to be able to be living.
3:40
So yeah, it's me, Yeah. I love that.
3:42
And as we think about, think about your college career,
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right, Really successful there, but as you think about going
3:48
from high school, right, in lower and going then going to
3:51
college and making that transition, which can be tough,
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right? It can be hard.
3:55
Like what? What do you wish you knew when
3:58
you were making that jump from high school to college?
4:01
That you figured out maybe at the end of your college career,
4:04
that you know now? So be honest, through actually
4:07
observing one of my former teammates my last year, his
4:11
freshman year, I was a really talented kid from Texas named
4:16
JoJo Moore, Josiah Moore. I started to see that like he
4:19
was really prepared, but his demeanor, his temperament, and
4:23
the one thing I would like like to give advice to like high
4:25
school kids going into college is like, it's serious, but it's
4:28
not that serious as far as like take your development serious,
4:32
take your nutrition serious, take your relationships with
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your coaches and your teammates serious.
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But failing, going through slumps, going through obstacles
4:42
on the floor adjustments, don't take that as serious and as
4:45
detrimental as like you can't grow from that.
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And I think that that's one thing that I wish I knew.
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I was putting so much stock in every shot.
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I was putting so much stock in every drill and every mess up.
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And it almost kind of demoralizes you before you can
5:00
really take that growth on to be able to become the player that
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you know you're meant to be or or who you will potentially be
5:06
and it will stunt your growth. So there's a serious aspect that
5:09
you take, but don't take everything so serious to the
5:12
point that you can't learn and grow from your mistakes.
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So for a high school kid coming from being the guy or one of the
5:20
guys on his team to trying to add value on a collegiate
5:24
program, coming in as a freshman, especially in today's
5:27
world, you have to grow and learn from your mistakes and has
5:30
to go fast. Because in today's game, they're
5:32
recruiting guys that are 2122 to come in that have already played
5:36
a few years in college basketball or JUCO.
5:39
And those guys actually know and have mastered kind of that that
5:44
concept. So the quicker you can learn how
5:47
to take things with a grain of salt and then grow from that,
5:51
but the better you'll be as as a high school athlete climbing
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those collegiate ranks. So I think that's one thing that
5:56
I would tell a high schooler, definitely.
5:59
Yeah, No, I think that's such a great point.
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And as we, as you, as you talk about that like it's hard,
6:04
right? Because usually really good
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athletes are going to be their hardest critics.
6:08
They are going to internalize and have that voice in their
6:11
head so much that that push for perfection.
6:13
And that's part of why they are really good and why they've
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gotten to where they are because they they have that drive and
6:19
that internal pressure on themselves which pushes them to
6:22
work and pushes them to strive for more.
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But you're right, I have seen that that can be such a limiter.
6:27
If you are always like, I've got to be perfect.
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And if every turnover, every missed shot, every, you know,
6:32
mistake, you get so focused on that and you can't get to the
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next play. How how do you feel?
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Because right, it's it's great to say that.
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OK, get to the next play. Like don't internalize this,
6:43
Blake. It's another thing to actually
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do that. And I'm sure even as you got
6:47
better, I'm so you still struggle with it.
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I struggle with it like how? Do you start to?
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Actually make that shift and and not internalize it as much.
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I think for me, the biggest thing that I had and biggest
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thing that we both have is obviously our relationship with
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God. That's that's a big part when
7:01
you go to college sports, if you don't have a strong relationship
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with some some other thing that can alleviate.
7:07
But the best thing for me that I noticed was being able to cast
7:10
my cares on to him. And that was the biggest thing
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for me. But on the other side of just
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being like the practical everyday today and I'm giving
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like the cliche, like give it to God, but like the practical
7:21
day-to-day. I would probably say the more
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you're a student of the game, I feel like, and the more you
7:26
actually sit down and watch. Like for me, I would watch a lot
7:29
of film on Steve Nash or a Chris Paul or guys that, you know,
7:34
play the guard position. And I would watch full games,
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not just highlights. And I would see like how many
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times they kick the ball off their foot or how many times
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they they air ball, how many times they mess up, how many
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times do they miss a defensive assignment.
7:46
And so when you start to see people at the top of their
7:49
professional chain, you start to see people at the top of their
7:51
game and their prime make mistakes and then come back and
7:55
make great plays and run off. You know, for every mistake you
7:58
run off 4 good plays. Then you start to think like,
8:01
man, these people are immortal and, and everything like that.
8:03
And you can kind of take those experiences and be like, OK, so
8:07
if Steve Nash and Chris Paul can't make a mistake, why can't
8:09
Oz McBride make the mistake down the stretch?
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And so when you start to become a student of the game and you
8:15
start to watch more film and you start looking at the art of just
8:18
human nature applied over into your respective sport, it starts
8:23
to become an alleviator of like, hey, like, I can make mistakes.
8:27
I can be human. And so that's another piece of
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advice that I will give to a high schooler.
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Look at the person that's in front of you, whether that they
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might be a senior that's are going to be an All American.
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It might be someone that that's projected going to draft someone
8:40
like that. Look at that person because
8:41
you'll see they're going to make mistakes, but that mistakes
8:44
don't define them. So then you can apply that to
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your own journey and whatever respective sport that you're
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playing and you could be like, man, like I have room to make
8:52
mistakes and still be great. And so that helped me definitely
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get over the hump more and more. I was blessed to have Max
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Acemus, who was the best major player, best player in the
9:02
country. And he was making a lot of
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mistakes in practice. He's making mistakes in in in
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the game, but he just didn't let it phase him.
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And so when I learned that that kind of is the separator and
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that's when I started to take that jump.
9:16
Yeah, now I love that you brought that up because it is
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like I see it all the time, especially in high school.
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It's like it's so much on Instagram where it's the ball is
9:25
life, whatever clips where some kid could shoot 4 for 19, but
9:30
but the video makes them look like an All Star with those with
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those four clips, right. And it and that's what our
9:35
perception becomes this man, like these kids are so good.
9:38
Like, but then you don't see the the 15 other shots that they
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missed the five turnovers. Like you're saying, man, watch
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those full game clips, like watch, you know, really study
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those people and see what is actually going on versus just
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the highlights of what's going on for everybody else.
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Yeah, yeah. And I think that's an important
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thing. I think just with life too.
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And in today's world where I can be a testament of it too.
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We, I know for certain on my Instagram, I'm going to post
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more highlights than I do low lights.
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And I think that that's starting to mess with human perception
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and to where we think everything is just roses for everyone.
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And I believe that that's going over into our sport since our
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entertainment. And I think honestly, like if
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you become an observer, you know, like I said, watching
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film, but if you just become an observer, human life and, and
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everything like that, and you know, the traits of people and
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people mess up and people have good days, bad days, then you
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have a touch with reality. And I feel like that's just an
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important part that we're missing in today's society.
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And I feel like if everyone just looks at mistakes, it's just
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stepping stones into a bigger, you know, blessing or more
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abundance and living a better life, then I think it would be
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better. I think that's just a part of
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life, honestly. Yeah, man, that that's so, so
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good. You know, I got to coach you,
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right? I got to coach and see you
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though, when you were already a really good college player.
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I didn't get to see all the before all the the high school I
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was McBride, the middle school, the elementary school.
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What what do you think? Like what did you do growing up
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or what are your parents did or just your environment to shape
11:10
you and develop you into the player?
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Like, what were the key things that helped you become a really
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good basketball player by the time you got to college?
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To be honest, I thank God really, really, really, really
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favored me and putting a community around me that was
11:23
exceptional and filled with people who had already
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overachieved. And so when I got to see that,
11:29
it inspired me to put in work and whatever I was passionate
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with. Like I said, I didn't really
11:35
specialize into in the sport until I got to the 5th or 6th
11:38
grade. Baseball was my favorite sport.
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I enjoyed that more than football and basketball was
11:44
actually my third sport. But obviously growing up in
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Little Rock, AR, the demographic here, it's a inner city.
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Basketball was just something that we played year round.
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And so like I said, it really wasn't one thing that just
11:57
changed the trajectory of my life and to being a good player.
12:00
But I do think that like, I don't know, like I said, I had
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my mom and my dad, they had graduated college, they were
12:08
successful. They have, you know, their
12:10
careers gone. My sister went to college.
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So like, I just knew that like hard work would propel me to
12:15
wherever I wanted to to be at. And then all the heroes that I
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looked up to, you know, whether it be Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan,
12:22
Kobe Bryant and the Jesse Owens, the Jackie Robinson's of the
12:26
world. Those people, I knew that they
12:28
had a story. And when their story was told,
12:31
it was always a hard work and perseverance.
12:33
And so every time I would go through a practice or workout,
12:37
that kind of was like my, my calling card.
12:40
That's why I hang my hat on. It's like I'm a work as hard as
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I can to maximize the potential and to steward the gift guys
12:46
giving me. And so I was blessed to have
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guys like Bobby Fordis, Malik Monk around the same area around
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the time that I was growing up in my adolescence.
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So when you see greatness and you see it in your city or you
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see it in your county, it starts to inspire to be like, I can do
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the same thing. And so I feel like that that was
13:05
it for me. And I would encourage any kid to
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look at the surrounding people around them, take inspiration
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from one or two people, two to three people.
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And if they can do it, you can do it too.
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And so I think I've always been wired like that.
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And I'm, I'm gracious that God wired me like that because it
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helped me keep going and to be great.
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But like middle school, high school me like that was it like
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I just took so much inspiration. Inspiration is big for me.
13:30
And so I felt like, like I said, I was blessed to be able to have
13:34
people around me that had overachieved and had done great
13:37
things. And so I I took that and I was
13:40
like, man, how did they do that? And they did that from our work.
13:43
And that is what I I hung my hat on.
13:45
That was my foundation. So yeah, I hope to answer the
13:48
question, but. Yeah, No, I know.
13:50
I I think that's cool when when you talk about kind of being
13:53
inspired and, and that bringing out kind of that drive within
13:57
yourself internally. Is there a time you can remember
14:00
where is like that switch flipped where you realize that
14:03
and and switch that was that? Is that kind of just it happened
14:06
growing up over time? It happens like gradually, I
14:09
believe there's a part of it happens gradually, but then
14:12
there's episodes that I had that really I go back to even in
14:16
today's time, there's some stuff in college that I, I needed
14:19
motivation and I will pull it from a 7th grade episode or or a
14:23
10th grade episode. And most people would think
14:25
you're crazy, but you almost need that.
14:27
But gradually, like, I have a lot of parents come to me and
14:30
they're like, how can I have my son like you?
14:33
And I'm almost like, that's not how it works.
14:36
He's 4, he's 6, he's 8. Like over time, like it it, it
14:41
progressively will happen, but there's going to be enough
14:44
testing in your life that's going to some stuff is going to
14:46
piss you off to be able to put that that fire into you.
14:49
And I just think that that's life.
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But for me, I had a few episodes.
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I think when I first started getting in 7th, 8th grade, I
14:57
start, I knew I had talent in basketball, but I was hitting a
15:00
wall where there were better players.
15:02
But deep inside of me I knew that like I work harder than
15:05
them. So why is my workouts not
15:08
translating on the floor? And so then I started seeing it
15:12
like, you know, I have to up it a notch.
15:14
And I started really like pressing and I started really
15:17
mentally locking in and just blacking out all external
15:20
distract distractions. And I remember my 9th grade
15:23
year, we played in I think a state tournament for AAU and I
15:26
started feeling and it was like I was going through what they
15:29
call flow state today, but I like to call it fruit, fruit of
15:32
repetition. And it's honestly like seeing
15:35
the fruits of your reps at a different pace.
15:37
And you've ever done it before. And I remember just killing guys
15:41
that, you know, used to laugh at me.
15:43
I couldn't go through a ball handler.
15:44
I couldn't. But because I upped my
15:46
repetition, because I upped my intensity, then I was able to
15:49
take that step. And I remember looking back at
15:52
that 9th grade game and I looked at the box score and I just
15:55
looked at the whole stat sheet, not filled it.
15:57
And I looked at the guys that were ranked above me and
15:59
everything like that. And I was just like, man, this
16:03
is what it feels like, you know, those two years of like putting
16:06
in that diligent work, it, it feels so good to look at now
16:09
when I needed it the most, it paid off.
16:12
And so I look back at that when I'm going through a drought or I
16:15
look back at that moment and I'm like, man, if I lock in and just
16:19
take that, that extra step, extra Rep in a year or two, I'll
16:22
be able to look back and be able to like, man, I'm glad I took
16:25
that step. So for me, like that's a little
16:28
episode that I carry with me. And there's other ones, but
16:31
that's specifically with the battery in my back to to be
16:34
great. So I'll carry that with me
16:36
until, you know, until God lays me to rest because I know that
16:39
that triggered me into doing something great and bringing
16:42
something out of myself that, you know, I couldn't have.
16:44
So yeah. Yeah, no, man, fruition of
16:47
repetition, man, I like that. That's really powerful.
16:49
So now, now as we think about OK, you're you're in college as
16:52
a college player. What, what, what are the things
16:56
in college you've I felt that you did or your coaches did that
17:00
really helped you develop the most and improve again the most
17:03
while in college? For for the sense of, because I
17:06
spent most of my time at Oral Roberts for the sense of like,
17:11
you know, the concept of coaching at Oral Roberts was I
17:15
would knew I was around and then like individuals that respected
17:19
the players, truly respected them.
17:21
They had played at a whatever level.
17:24
So they knew to an extent how it how it's like to be a collegiate
17:27
athlete. And then they had a relationship
17:29
with the Lord within that. They loved us to a different
17:32
degree than I feel like I had experiences with with other
17:35
college coaches and I think through that they wanted the
17:37
best for us. So for me, my college coaches
17:41
helped me because they let me truly be me, you know, and they,
17:46
they had no problem with altering schemes, altering game
17:51
plans to allow Oz McBride to be Oz McBride or Max Hayes miss to
17:55
be Max Hayes miss Kareem Thompson to beat him.
17:58
They allowed us to fully be ourselves.
18:00
And the one thing if the college cultures do watch this podcast
18:04
is if you watch the best teams in the country, you see their
18:06
cultures just really let their teams play in any sport.
18:09
They let their teams play. And those are the better teams.
18:12
Those are the best teams. I don't know how to pronounce
18:14
his name. Signati.
18:16
Signati, I apologize. The guy Indiana, you gotta watch
18:19
his press conferences. He's mentally a crazy guy.
18:22
Like he he's wired differently. But the one thing that he does
18:26
is he has trust in his players. He alters schemes for his
18:29
players and he lets his players be his players.
18:31
And I think that's a big thing. Fernando Mendoza maybe might not
18:35
be the the most accurate ball. He might not have the greatest
18:38
touch out of all the quarterbacks that are coming
18:40
into the draft class. But the one thing that he had
18:43
was a coach that believed in him and trusted him to be able to
18:46
run his offense and allow Fernando Mendoza to beat him.
18:49
And I believe that that's what I had at Oral Roberts.
18:51
You know, Coach Mills, Coach Patterson, Coach Springman, all
18:54
those guys, Coach Bellino, they all allowed me to be they they
18:59
all allowed me to be Oz McBride. And so I think that, you know,
19:03
that's one thing college cultures can do a better job of.
19:06
You want to see success that you have to allow players to be
19:08
themselves. And if you have to tone them
19:10
back a little bit, that's cool. That's what you're there for.
19:13
But I think that that's one thing that the college coaches
19:16
that I had helped me and let me be myself.
19:19
But I don't know if that answers the question.
19:21
And along those lines, as you, you know, you can't talk about
19:25
what helped you from some of your coaches, what didn't help
19:27
you even beyond college, high school, mid school, whatever you
19:30
think about your all the coaches you've had, you think about this
19:33
was a really good coach. This was OK coach, maybe not as
19:36
good coach. What are the key things beyond
19:40
that one thing you just talked about that make that decision
19:44
for you of okay, good coach, okay coach, bad coach?
19:48
Big track record, honestly too, is a big thing.
19:51
You know, having tradition and having this was the most
19:54
overused word probably in collegiate sports.
19:56
But having a culture, it truly does make a difference.
20:00
Like when I can tell visibly and I can see, you know, it's
20:04
different when coaches come in and they recruit you and they
20:06
talk about their culture. But for me, I committed to
20:09
Kansas out of high school. Coach Self really didn't have,
20:12
He could have walked in my living room and I said a word.
20:15
I'd seen it already. You know, I was a UNC fan
20:18
growing up. So I was sick to my stomach from
20:20
that, that period where there would be battles with Kansas and
20:23
UNC. And when I got recruited by
20:25
Coach Self, he came in my living room and.
20:28
It was nothing he he had already sold himself, you know, at that
20:32
point he had won nine Big 12 titles in a row.
20:35
He was going to a Final four that year.
20:37
Like, but it takes a culture, it takes discipline.
20:39
It takes a certain type of demand, it takes a certain type
20:41
of structure to be able to organize something that
20:45
illustrious. And I'm going to be honest with
20:47
you, like there was nothing that he he had to say.
20:49
And so I think that that's a big part of a big sign of a great
20:54
coach. It's like what can you sell to
20:56
me visibly and I I pull that over to Oral Roberts is coach
21:01
Mills. I just come off of the year that
21:03
I committed had just come off of the Sweet 16 year run.
21:06
But you can visibly tell the love that his players have for
21:09
each other. You could tell the the
21:11
schematics they play with pace and space.
21:14
They shoot the tray ball. They allow a smaller guards to
21:17
be able to eat in their system and you could just tell that he
21:19
was a player's coach. I mean Max could have left after
21:22
that year. You feel me so like he was
21:23
allowing his players to be free within the system.
21:26
So I, I think that's a sign of a great coach.
21:29
And then on the ladder, a sign of a bad coach is, you know, the
21:32
opposite of that. But fortunately I didn't have
21:34
any bad coaches, you know, And so I would say for a high
21:38
schooler or for a middle schooler that's looking for a
21:43
respective coach going up in the level, those are the signs.
21:47
What can you see that in a program that isn't talked about?
21:51
What can you visibly see when you watch a practice, when you
21:54
watch a little documentary, short films on them, things like
21:58
what can you visibly see that stands out in their culture?
22:01
That before that coach comes and recruits you, you already know.
22:04
So when he says those those phrases or those things to be
22:08
able to hook you on into committing to that culture,
22:11
you're like, you're just being repetitive.
22:13
I've seen it already. And that's what I would ask
22:16
those people to do when they do their homework.
22:18
Parents, to have a high schooler that's going to go to college
22:21
is, hey, what can this program show me without having to say a
22:26
word? And I think that's a sign of a
22:28
good program and a good coach. What can be advertised already
22:31
without you having to say anything goes to show a sign of
22:35
a good culture and a good coach. That's a great point.
22:37
What are what are some of the things that coaches did for you
22:41
that maybe weren't these huge gestures or things, but maybe
22:45
smaller things consistently that were really impactful for to you
22:50
as an athlete and a person though?
22:51
This last year at Oral Roberts, obviously you can look the
22:55
record up on we didn't have a great winning record.
22:58
For me, the biggest thing that I had is we had a coach, Coach
23:01
Antonio Bostick. He's in the GB now with the
23:04
Grand Rapids Gold. He knew that we weren't trending
23:08
in the right direction and obviously everyone starts to
23:11
panic. He showed me how to truly live
23:14
like according to the word of God in terms in the midst of
23:18
panicking. He knew that guy had full
23:20
control over his situation. I will watch him from afar.
23:24
And he kept his joy. He kept his composure and he
23:27
kept his zeal for the game of basketball.
23:29
And we started doing Bible studies and we started breaking
23:33
down First Corinthians. We started breaking down James
23:36
and he really started, you know, to spend time off the floor with
23:40
us investing in to us spiritually.
23:42
I'm not saying the other coaches did.
23:44
The other coaches did. But when you're going through,
23:46
you know, I might be losing my job in two months, that's a
23:49
different type of pressure. And so for him to be able to
23:53
steal through the miss of that trust in the Lord, but also show
23:56
that through his actions, I felt like for me, that was a recent
24:00
example of what a coach did for me that goes beyond the school
24:04
board or goes beyond anything that you could do on the turf or
24:08
on the court. But as far as my life, I've had
24:11
so many coaches that would take the shirt off their bat to be
24:14
able to to make sure I was having a, you know, a good day
24:17
or provided for whether it be my dad who coached me, He's done
24:20
that. He's my dad, obviously, But I
24:22
had a coach, Coach Coleman as my best friend's dad, John Coleman.
24:27
He's a coach here in in in Little Rock, AR his sacrifice
24:31
for all of us or whether it be picking us up or there be
24:34
putting us on gems of life where there be just making sure we're
24:38
empowered and encouraged. And I had coaches like that in
24:41
high school, whether it be Brian Ross, Coach Miller, Marcus
24:44
White, guys like that were in my corner.
24:47
So like coaches, I was blessed to have coaches at every level
24:52
that sacrifice. And I think the biggest word was
24:54
sacrifice, because when you really love someone, you'll
24:57
sacrifice. And I feel like I was blessed
24:59
enough to have people that were always continually sacrificing
25:02
for me. And so I would say all my
25:05
coaches, but especially that one situation where Coach Bostick
25:09
really showed me that like, hey, like, I don't know, like for me
25:12
that that was the biggest thing. I don't know if that question, I
25:15
want to ramble kind of lost it, but I would say like, I don't
25:18
know, all my coaches really sacrificed for me.
25:21
And that showed me that they love me and that made me want to
25:23
play harder for them. But that recent example of Coach
25:25
Bostick really was something that stood out to me, that I can
25:29
take for me for the rest of my life.
25:30
So, yeah, I mean, Coach Bostick's incredible man.
25:34
And you know, that is hard because like, you know, in those
25:36
situations, like a lot of times the the, you know, those
25:39
facilities, things can get pretty on edge and pretty tight
25:42
when when they when you're on losing streaks and conversations
25:45
get a little shorter, a little edgier, you know, everybody gets
25:49
a little more, you know, I get it, get after a little more in
25:52
practice and those things. So I think that's really cool
25:55
even to transcend all that and like still set an example.
26:00
But I want to make sure I answer your question though, so because
26:03
I went off on the limb but like I use host box example.
26:06
What was the initial question though?
26:07
So I don't I don't want to mess up what you got.
26:09
I want. To answer, I mean, I feel like
26:11
you answered, but it was, it was just, you know, some of the
26:14
things that coaches have done for you that have been really
26:16
impactful for you, which I, I feel like, I feel like you
26:19
answered that, man. I think that was a good answer.
26:21
And, and example of that, that coach Bostic, you know, from
26:25
your perspective and you've touched on some aspects of this,
26:28
but how, how can coaches create a program where the players,
26:33
man, they just love basketball. They love showing up each day to
26:36
do the work now that it's easy, but they love coming together
26:39
with the team and the program and, and how things are running.
26:42
They're still in love with the game and they're still getting
26:44
better too. Since, you know, you may have
26:48
been in places before, you know, I've seen it sometimes with
26:50
athletes where they kind of start falling out of love with
26:52
the game for different reasons. So like, how can, how can
26:56
coaches create an environment where where their players do
26:59
love what they're doing while they're getting better and
27:01
performing at the highest level? It is a super tough thing to do.
27:06
I have to be careful like how I go about like answering that
27:09
because it's situational in every program to an extent.
27:13
I've seen guys that I that I know truly love the game, but an
27:17
injury happens or unexpecting, unexpected, just drop in playing
27:22
time can take away your zeal because you're not on the floor
27:26
having an impact. I think coaches ask parents.
27:29
I think coaches ask respective coaches that have coach high
27:32
school players and I think college coaches do a good job of
27:35
like asking them. The one thing that I wish
27:38
coaches would do before, you know, investing in a scholarship
27:41
with other people is I would give them advice.
27:44
Ask some of their friends, some of their peers, like some of
27:47
their closest friends or not even closest friends, some of
27:50
the people that are around them just acquaintances and whether
27:53
they like them or not, they'll attest yes, this kid, well, you
27:57
could say whatever you want to say about him.
27:59
He works hard. He's a great teammate.
28:01
He cares about his team. Because when you bring in a
28:04
player to your program, then the factors of like, I'm not playing
28:09
or I'm not doing well, you can you can almost kick that out of
28:13
the door of him being or falling out of love with the game.
28:16
Because you've already asked the question from people that have
28:19
seen him from an outsider's perspective and don't have bias
28:22
that they've commended him for being a selfless player or a
28:26
selfless person. And I feel like college coaches
28:29
ask, you know, respective family members questions about their
28:32
child or they ask, you know, coaches, of course they're going
28:37
to be biased and, and want their person to have that scholarship
28:40
or want that. But I think that if you're
28:42
really going to do research, I would start going into the
28:45
schools and asking teachers or asking them things like that,
28:49
because then you'll know, like I can work with the player who's
28:52
going to go through a slump and go through a little, you know,
28:54
sadness. You know, that that's he's a
28:56
competitor, of course. But I, I'm going to give him the
28:59
scholarship based upon his character of knowing that he's
29:02
still going to uplift his teammate.
29:03
He's still going to be a positive block room guy, knowing
29:06
that when he gets out of that slump, not only do I have that
29:08
selfless person, but I have a excuse my language, I have a
29:11
hell of a player too. So you you use that combination.
29:15
That's how you can really notes. I would advise, you know,
29:19
coaches to do more research and you can use more assets to ask
29:24
other people too. And then I don't know, I just
29:28
feel like also to just get to know the player more, you know,
29:32
feel like college coaches really they they have the same script,
29:35
almost like I almost feel bad because I'm just like, I know
29:38
it's a business, but you're also human too.
29:41
And so, you know, talk to the person as you know, you're
29:44
they're human, you know, but like college coaches use the
29:47
same script recruiting for every player.
29:50
And I've been on a million recruiting dinners.
29:53
And one thing that I've noticed, and I had great coaches, but one
29:57
thing that I've noticed is like, it feels like they're trying to
30:00
pass time when asking the same questions.
30:02
And Samson doesn't like questions about Fresh Prince.
30:06
He likes to watch The Office. But, you know, most college
30:09
coaches don't know that because they approach it at the same,
30:12
you know, And so I'm just like college coaches, if you're
30:16
wanting to recruit someone of substance that you feel like can
30:19
add to your program, you're wanting to recruit someone that
30:22
loves the game of basketball, You have to take that time to do
30:25
research just like that player is doing, taking his time to
30:29
know much about your program as possible.
30:32
And you almost have to put your pride aside, you know, and I
30:35
think the best college coaches, the best recruiters are the ones
30:38
that are the, the more personable ones and the ones
30:41
that have the best relationships and kind of put aside the script
30:44
scripted part of college recruiting to really get to know
30:47
a person. And so I think that's my piece
30:50
of advice, you know, 1A start asking other people, then, you
30:54
know, just the relatives or, or just the people that obviously
30:57
want to see them. Ask people from the outside
31:00
perspective. And then also to just put down
31:02
the the cliche, let's start having relationships again.
31:06
And then I, I think you'll start to see more constructive teams
31:09
with guys that really care for each other instead of just
31:12
mismatched talent that we pulled out of the portal.
31:14
We just throw money to that that don't end up working.
31:17
So I think that would be my advice, you know, for college
31:20
coaches. Now, I'm not a college coach,
31:21
but hopefully that gives them some type of insight or
31:24
something to take away. No, not yet.
31:27
You know, as you talked about breaking away from the script
31:30
when recruiting, what should coaches be asking that they're
31:33
not asking or that you haven't seen them ask you in your
31:36
recruiting process? For me honestly, like I'm
31:40
getting to know this more, when I was 18, my initial thought was
31:43
NBA, you know, first round, I mean first or second round draft
31:47
pick or two way or this and that.
31:50
I was 18. That was my thought.
31:51
And so I don't, I didn't want to talk about anything really else
31:55
other than that on a recruiting thing.
31:57
So now a hindsight is 2020, obviously, but as I started
32:00
getting like in the middle of my college career, I started to see
32:03
that like got to play so much more in me other than
32:07
basketball. And I would say that there's a
32:09
lot more guys that are like Jaylen Brown's that are highly,
32:13
highly in tune with, you know, themselves at an early age and
32:16
that are starting to dibble and dabble in other things.
32:19
And I know as a college coach, you're there on a business trip
32:22
trying to recruit a kid so you can keep your job.
32:24
So I know obviously we want to talk more about the XS and OS
32:27
and about how he's going to help your program.
32:30
But I do think on the latter part, it would be cool and
32:32
refreshing to start having conversations about what do you
32:35
want to do after you're playing career or or what do you want to
32:38
do in your college tenure here that I can ensure and help you
32:42
that will make your life better outside of basketball.
32:45
Whether it be talking about business, whether it be talking
32:48
about other trades that you want to get into, whether it be
32:51
talking about sending you up for financial literacy so that
32:54
you're not bankrupt after you make this certain NIL money,
32:57
things like that. So you can carry it over and
32:59
have generational will. There's a lot of kids, believe
33:02
it or not, that are wanting to have those conversations with
33:05
their coaches. And I honestly think that would
33:06
be the closing deal from you getting a top prospect that you
33:10
didn't even know about. And so you can talk about the
33:12
X's and O's and you can talk about being a great player, but
33:15
also take time and that 15 minute conversation in that in
33:18
home. So let's talk about how we can
33:20
set you up for success outside of the athletic playing field.
33:24
And I honestly wish my AD coaches, you know, that, that,
33:27
you know, and I did all my in home visits that recruited me,
33:30
but they had more time to talk to me about that because it's
33:34
cool to talk about how we're going to put you on set of
33:37
college game day and how we're going to take you to Papa
33:40
Dough's and this and that. It's great to have that and
33:42
that's exciting. But let's talk about when the
33:44
when it hits the fan. And, and I'm 2223 years old and
33:49
you know, I had a great career, but I wasn't a first round pick.
33:52
So what do I do now? What's the next steps?
33:54
What do I how do I use this money?
33:56
How do I best leverage it on things like that?
33:58
I think that that's something that I wish, you know, college
34:01
coaches did more of. And I think if they do, they
34:03
would be surprised how many more letters of intent that they're
34:06
able to get signed by a lot of top prospects that they, you
34:09
know, didn't know they're interested in their program.
34:11
So that would be my piece of advice.
34:13
Start tapping into the whole being of a person by this mean
34:17
just the athletic part of. That's very cool.
34:19
And as we think about that recruit and and think about
34:22
like, OK, maybe a kids coming on an official visit and like the
34:26
coaches recruiting that athlete have maybe seen this one side of
34:31
of the athlete through their conversations.
34:33
And from both sides of that, both sides are trying to put on
34:35
a their best front, right? The athletes trying to put
34:38
themselves in the best spot to get a scholarship.
34:40
Coaches trying to do that. And let's say that, you know,
34:42
the kids come on a visit and you know, then they're hanging out
34:45
with the rest of the team. They don't have that.
34:46
And then maybe that front comes down a little bit like, what do
34:49
you, what do you feel like the athletes on the team can see
34:53
that sometimes the coaches don't see about a potential recruit?
34:57
That's the biggest thing I think we did a good job of at Oral
35:00
Roberts. So we would have visits and
35:03
Coach would immediately ask three or four of us that were
35:05
around him. OK.
35:07
Like, I don't know if I'm exposing like a, a trick or
35:09
anything like that, but like, I'm gonna just keep it real with
35:11
you. That's what happens.
35:12
Like the coach probably will ask, like, how was the visit?
35:15
How was he? How's his personality?
35:17
How do you think he fits? And I think it's like only fair
35:21
for the guys to be honest to the coach.
35:24
He's saving time, He's saving scholarship money, things like
35:27
that. What was the question?
35:29
Yeah, just like what? What are what are the things
35:31
that those that you, you guys as athletes can see on those visits
35:35
that maybe the coaches don't get AC from the athlete?
35:38
Yeah, Yeah. I think, I think we see majority
35:42
of it. I think the coaches probably
35:43
only honestly get probably 30% of the visit, just the touring.
35:48
I think it's important that your players like report back to you
35:53
the real spill. I think that's honestly why our
35:55
program at Oral Ivers was so successful at the time being was
35:59
because like when you looked at the makeup of our teams, like
36:02
most of the guys that were recruited in fit like a glove in
36:06
our most successful years because of like the feedback
36:09
that we gave Coach Mills or coach screaming from respective
36:13
visits. I know that Kareem and I have
36:16
the bulk of other visits and we kept the real deal honest
36:21
because we have respect for the program and how much it gave to
36:24
us. We didn't want to bring in any
36:25
type of toxin or any type of bacteria that was going to
36:28
contaminate what we had going on.
36:30
And so I think the player see majority of it and I honestly
36:35
think it's very important. That's why I believe that
36:37
structuring your visits and getting them in spaces where the
36:40
players can be one-on-one with the recruiting prospect is
36:45
that's the best formula honestly.
36:47
Because once you really get around the guys, the the recruit
36:51
gets to see if he meshes well with the guys there and vice
36:54
versa. And I think that is the biggest
36:57
part of it. So I think it's everything.
36:59
And I think as a college coach, when you structure your
37:02
recruitment, if you're a young college coach or a new staff,
37:05
you should structure your recruitment and not around go to
37:08
a bunch of places to eat. That is very important.
37:11
Community and fellowship and good food is great.
37:13
But I think it's very important to try to get them with the
37:17
players as much as possible in a structured environments.
37:20
And if it's a party, hey, I'm not green to it.
37:23
I know people like to kick it. I kicked it on my business too.
37:26
But make sure it's some type of like I'm having interaction.
37:30
And so yeah, I would. That's my biggest advice,
37:32
honestly, make sure you're giving as much time so you
37:36
recruit with the guys that he's going to be playing with to see
37:39
if it meshes. And so, yeah.
37:41
That's really good. And now with how college
37:44
basketball is and you know, the the portal and teams, most teams
37:49
are being basically completely re recruited each year with
37:53
maybe like 3 or 4 guys coming back and you're bringing all
37:56
these new individuals into a team and you have, you know, a
38:00
couple months to try and bring this group together.
38:03
How do you think coaches should think about, you know, like
38:06
you've talked about for the culture, but like bringing that
38:08
team together into one team versus 15 individuals in a short
38:13
period of time and meshing all those new personalities
38:16
together? Let me be honest with you.
38:18
I don't know, to be honest. Like that's my biggest thing
38:22
though, because I would say coach Springman was such a he's
38:27
such a great basketball mind, coach Patterson, great
38:30
basketball mind, Bostic, Buick, host Dave, all great minds.
38:35
But like in today's world with college sports, you're almost
38:40
asking a coach to do the impossible and giving him the
38:44
consequences of having such a short span.
38:47
And especially if you're a mid major school, it's going to be
38:50
almost impossible to compete with a high major or make a run
38:53
in a tournament nowadays because it's just like we don't really
38:56
have the funds and the money to be able to do that.
38:59
And I don't know, honestly, that's a question that like, I
39:04
don't even know, like how you even go about that.
39:06
I believe that like what Coach Freeman, when he was at Oral
39:09
Roberts, I think his ruling was kind of unfair to be honest,
39:13
because he only got two months to be able to do so much with
39:16
people that he honestly never met.
39:19
We had never met either. So like you said, when you're
39:21
returning two or three guys and then the other ten are people
39:24
from all over the country, come from different programs, did
39:28
things a different way. You really don't know what
39:30
you're you. You would honestly have it would
39:32
have to be manna from heaven that God gives you to be able to
39:35
get 18 that is just on one accord and buys in like that.
39:40
And I don't know, like that's one question.
39:42
I that's above my pay grade. I honestly believe that.
39:46
Yeah, it's just the state of how it is.
39:48
It's almost like, look, we're just going to keep throwing
39:51
money. We're going to keep getting kids
39:52
out the portal and hopefully one year we'll land on a, on a, a
39:56
Destin team. And I honestly believe that more
39:59
cultures will start to see that it's, it's a, it's a hard feat,
40:03
especially for low D ones and mid major D ones.
40:05
And so maybe there's going to be some type of a patching to the
40:10
system hopefully. But yeah, that's a question.
40:12
I honestly I would have to dig deeper in and do more research
40:17
but yeah. I, I hope it gets better, but
40:20
you know, that's just a, a question that I, I don't really
40:23
know the answer to right now. Yeah.
40:24
And I think, you know, you talked about Indiana football
40:27
before and I think, you know, coaches like that, that can have
40:32
a land. Like we talked about the
40:33
recruiting and visits and understanding the people you're
40:36
bringing in and understanding the roles and how you're letting
40:38
them fill those roles. Like the, I think the coaches
40:41
that can have the clearest vision of who they're bringing
40:44
in, who they need to bring in, who those people actually are
40:46
versus just trying to get the highest ranked people and
40:49
building specific roles. And then allowing them to people
40:52
to use their strength in those roles and understand how to do
40:54
that are probably going to be able to keep having success
40:58
beyond, you know, throwing money at the highest ranked people.
41:01
Kind of like you talked about. That's not always going to work.
41:04
Yeah, I think he, I think he's, I think, yeah, that's the answer
41:08
right there. I mean, probably not the answer,
41:10
but one of the answers. You bringing up the Indiana
41:12
coach like he they're saying that business leaders he owes to
41:17
500 companies are bringing up videos bringing him in to be
41:21
able to be like because he's getting Ballers that are like
41:25
just well-rounded individuals. You know, they're not perfect,
41:29
but he's getting guys that play for a reason and know why and
41:32
they're they're not tagged 5 star four-star.
41:36
And I think that that's what coaches probably need to start
41:39
doing is taking the taking chances on these fell between
41:42
the cracked players, honestly, because those are the guys that
41:45
are playing with more substance. Those are the guys are playing
41:48
with more passion and a lot of these guys that are highly
41:50
ranked. Unfortunately, today, 20-30
41:52
years ago, it was your best players that you see in the the
41:56
magazines for the rankings were your best players in the
41:58
country. But now it's just like you don't
42:00
even know your five star might not be playing with a motor that
42:03
that three or two star is. And that two or three star might
42:07
just be 1 summer away from attaining the same skill set
42:10
that that five star does. Plus he has a motor.
42:13
So I think it's important to be able to get people that fit.
42:17
I guess what you do, like you said, the vision.
42:19
So that right there. So the question that you asked,
42:21
you answered your own question almost because what he's doing
42:24
at IU is needs to be studied. It's by a lot of mid majors and
42:29
low D ones especially because what he's doing is he's taking
42:33
the budget of a high major team with the philosophy of A1 mid
42:38
major D1 coach. And he's turning that into a
42:41
factory of dudes are going to start going there because he's
42:44
taking their system and and you're just putting it out in
42:47
the world. And people around that don't
42:49
even play sports are picking it up and doing great things with
42:52
their businesses. So, yeah, what you said is the
42:55
answer of vision clarity. So, yeah, I didn't know the
42:58
answer, but I'm glad you knew the answer.
42:59
So whoever watches this, hopefully they get something.
43:02
Yeah, it's, it's a lot easier said than done, I would think
43:07
with that one. Yeah.
43:10
As you think about yourself playing, Yeah, as an athlete, as
43:14
a basketball player, when, when are you closest to your purpose
43:18
when you're playing basketball? That's a great question.
43:21
I would say for me, when I'm closer to my purpose is when I'm
43:25
the the the most of mimicking Christ, like the most of like on
43:29
that floor. I'm doing my best to be able to
43:32
glorify him by mimicking him in a way.
43:34
If I'm being completely honest, there's so many times in the
43:37
game where I get frustrated curse where my slip fresh might
43:39
come in like that. I'm just being honest.
43:41
That's me being honest. Like I still have a relationship
43:44
with him, but that's part where I'm like, I'm I'm not happy and
43:50
me doing that or I'm not proud of that's not my proudest
43:52
moment. But when I'm playing with
43:54
passion, when I'm playing hard, when I'm encouraging a teammate,
43:57
when I'm laying, you know, myself out on the line for my
44:01
program, when I'm executing a game plan, when I'm being
44:04
obedient in that part. And I'm going to be honest with
44:08
you when I'm going going to work, when I'm going crazy, when
44:11
I'm, when I'm using the gifts that God has given me.
44:13
I feel like that when I'm playing ball is I'm closest to
44:16
my purpose because that's opened up opportunities after the game
44:20
for like young aspiring athletes or or people that were inspired
44:25
by the performance to ask you, well, how do you do it?
44:29
Then that opens up my leeway to be able to plant that seed into
44:34
salvation. That was my biggest moment of
44:37
when I felt closer to my purpose.
44:39
I don't. You were there when we played
44:41
Weber. Obviously that was a big game
44:43
for you. That was a big game for all of
44:44
us. Dylan Jones was a projected NBA
44:50
prospect. Weber's a historical program.
44:53
You had just come from Weber. Obviously we wanted to win that
44:56
game for you. I wanted to do well, there's no
44:58
secret. I knew I wasn't a first or
45:00
second round guy, but I knew there would be NBA scouts there
45:03
and I knew that would be good turn around for our season to be
45:06
able to go in the right direction.
45:08
And I remember playing really well and I had great games, but
45:11
you know, it's different when you're playing against a guy
45:14
that's going to play in the league.
45:15
You know, you get up for those games.
45:17
And God had blessed me to have a great reference.
45:19
There was a kid after two kids that came to me after the game
45:23
and I didn't spend, I spent like 15 minutes not even talking
45:26
about the game. I was talking about how God had
45:28
given me this talent is giving me this platform.
45:30
I want to steward it well. And they were like, they went
45:33
home and they talked to their parents and I like we talked to
45:35
one of the better players on the team and he didn't even want to
45:37
talk about basketball. All we heard more was God and
45:41
Jesus this and Jesus that. Those kids ended up getting back
45:44
into church, getting baptized, got saved.
45:47
Now I know where their souls are going.
45:49
And I can look back at that moment and say by me going out
45:53
there playing with a free conscious steward and the gifts
45:56
that God has given me and attacking the game and playing
45:59
well, that opened up doors for someone to be able to be saved.
46:02
Now I know that their souls are forever in eternity with the
46:06
Lord and so that's when I feel closest to my purpose and I want
46:10
to take that in every area that I do and make that my purpose.
46:14
So for me, that is how my purpose is most seen through me
46:18
being a basketball player for for you, it may be you being
46:23
able to instill discipline the kids and be able to instill
46:26
order and through your list through through your
46:29
personability relationships with people like how you deal with
46:32
us. That's how that may be your
46:34
purpose. It may be different for everyone
46:36
else, but for me, that was how my purpose was best served
46:40
through being a basketball player.
46:41
And that's where I had my biggest joy later on in my
46:44
career where I started to see that this is bigger than a game
46:47
and everything is used for the edification and glorification of
46:51
of Christ. So that for me was my biggest
46:53
purpose column as a basketball player.
46:55
Wow, man, I mean that that's such a cool story.
46:57
I just, you know, I, I've like I've seen man, you do such a
47:01
great job of that, of using your gifts as a, as an athlete, as a
47:04
player, and then also just an incredible way to the ability to
47:08
communicate and being able to go impact coaches, other teammates,
47:12
players, kids, adults, man, you do such a a great job with that.
47:16
And man, it impacted so many, so many people.
47:19
You know, as we talk about that purpose there and and we talked,
47:22
we've talked a lot about ORU, right going into your last year,
47:25
you had the ability to transferred to another bigger
47:31
school, probably get paid a lot more money to go do that and
47:34
then you made the decision still to come back to Oral Roberts.
47:37
What would end of that decision for you to stay?
47:40
If I'm being honest, a lot of my passion for the game, like I
47:44
wanted to be on the floor and play.
47:46
Not saying that I'm not a competitor and wouldn't go
47:48
compete for a spot, but at that point in my life and all the
47:51
things that I went through with college basketball, I didn't
47:54
feel like I wanted any political things to be in between me and
47:58
and my value on that floor. And I just heard a lot of
48:01
stories of a guy that, you know, he goes to get three 300,000
48:05
dollars, 350 K400 and he's playing in a in a region that he
48:10
hates. He's playing 0 minutes to little
48:13
minutes. He's not fully being himself on
48:15
the floor. He's scared to make mistakes but
48:18
yet I have money in my pocket and I would be like hypocritical
48:22
to say I want to play with purpose but just because I'm
48:26
throwing some money then the purpose goes out the window
48:29
because I have some money now. I'm like if I wasn't on that
48:32
floor playing then I don't get the impact people the way I do.
48:36
And what's the trade off, me getting money and being richer
48:40
than someone now then or richer than I was before or me doing
48:45
something that I've had a passion for since I've been four
48:47
and I get a chance to play that every kid wants to play the
48:50
whole game. And yes, obviously I'm paying
48:53
the consequences body type, we're having to lead the country
48:56
and minutes, stuff like that. But like, you don't complain
48:58
when you're in the midst of because you love them play.
49:01
And that for me was like, look, I know at Oral Roberts.
49:03
I know I have a system that I've played in.
49:07
I know my coaches know my game, and I know I have the ability to
49:11
be the guy there. You can't ask for much more.
49:15
I just feel like we get greedy. Like, how much more do you want?
49:18
You feel me like? And I also believe
49:20
wholeheartedly that God will provide, but I'm not saying it
49:24
to say that I wouldn't like to be wealthy one day.
49:26
Obviously, we all would like to be able to have some extra
49:29
cheddar, some extra bread. But if I'm being real, like I
49:32
have complete confidence in myself that no matter what I do,
49:35
I'm going to do it to such a standard.
49:37
And I'm going to do it so excellent that they're going to
49:39
pay me for for my services sooner or later.
49:42
So the money that I miss out now trying to get a, a quick dollar
49:46
or a dime for something that you know may deserve, you may not
49:50
deserve, I feel like I'll make it up something that I
49:52
respectfully love to do. And so that was my thought
49:55
process. On top of that, Oral Roberts was
49:57
the college that really had grown me and helped me
50:01
spiritually grow closer to the Lord.
50:03
I knew that if I went somewhere else, being honest with myself,
50:07
it would have distanced me further.
50:09
And I went through my trials and tribulations at Oral Roberts.
50:12
I had my clashes and episodes and with people this and that
50:16
and nothing's perfect, but I will say that I still was able
50:19
to have my friends in my community that encouraged me
50:22
after a bad game. And hey, we're going to get up
50:24
and go to church or encourage me when I had, you know, slips up,
50:27
slip ups and sin and things like that.
50:29
We're going to encourage you to get closer to the Lord.
50:31
If I went to Arizona State, I'm going to keep it a buck with you
50:33
that it was not happening. It would have been over kicking
50:37
it, you know, too much and I would have grown me further.
50:40
And I know myself, you know, and I know that like the more that I
50:44
I'm around people that are like minded, but the closer that I
50:47
grow in my goals. So Oral Roberts was the place
50:50
for me. You know, I'd rather trade, I
50:52
trade a losing season for me being able to be closer to the
50:56
Lord. And then the third thing was
50:58
just like, you know, I wanted to do right by people that I felt,
51:01
you know, did it right by me. My coaches gave me the
51:04
confidence to get out of the hole of me not having the
51:08
confidence in myself as a player and as a person.
51:10
When I left Vanderbilt, I was I didn't have that coach for Coach
51:13
Freeman, coach Mills, Coach Patterson.
51:15
They they took me in and and they helped me with that.
51:18
They built me back up. And I can't thank them enough
51:21
for that. So with those factors being in
51:24
play, that's why I came back. And looking back at it,
51:26
honestly, there's been times I was like, man, well, I should
51:29
have took that bread. Should want to play somewhere
51:32
else. Yeah, of course that's human,
51:35
just being a human. But I wouldn't, I would do it
51:37
all over again because it instills something in me that I
51:40
can look back and say, wow, I went through this and I went
51:43
through that. But I'm glad I did it at Oral
51:45
Roberts rather than doing it in a place where I could lose my
51:48
soul. You know what it what good is it
51:50
for a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?
51:52
That's the biggest thing that I took away from that, and that's
51:55
the decision that I made to come back to Oral Roberts.
51:57
For some people, they still think I'm crazy, but let me be
52:00
crazy. I rather be happy and have joy
52:02
being crazy then look back at something and being like man,
52:06
like I missed out on being around people that I truly love.
52:09
Now was it returned to me in the greatest way?
52:11
I don't know. There are some things that, you
52:13
know, I feel like could have gone different in my interaction
52:16
with, with people at Oral Roberts.
52:18
But at the same time, the, the good outweighs the bad.
52:21
And I'm thankful that, you know, I made the decision.
52:23
I'm thankful that God placed it in my heart to be able to
52:26
return. And so that's why I turned down
52:29
what I turned down. And I feel like if more people
52:31
live that way, then, you know, it could be a, a better world.
52:35
But as far as money, I'll get that back.
52:38
I'm very confident in myself that I have everything that that
52:42
I need. God will continue to provide.
52:44
But just the way that I go about life and my passion for things,
52:47
I feel like for anyone that's passionate about something, you
52:50
will end up seeking and and reaping the the fruits of the
52:54
time that you put in. So yeah, that's why I made that
52:56
decision. And that that was such an
52:58
incredible answer. And like you talked about,
53:01
there's a lot of people that end up maybe making that decision to
53:04
transfer and they're not playing.
53:06
They're playing 0 minutes or 510 minutes compared to 35 minutes.
53:09
They're not getting to showcase what they're do.
53:11
They're not getting to play to their purpose like you've talked
53:14
about. And I think a big part of that
53:15
comes down to the voices that you listen to and the people
53:21
that around you and having truth tellers around you.
53:23
And there's a lot of people that maybe hear voices that don't
53:26
always have their best interest or, you know, telling them one
53:28
thing. And just from knowing you, from
53:32
the way you communicate, the way you, the values you have, I
53:36
think it's clear that you have really good truth tellers and
53:41
people around you that you listen to and give you counsel
53:44
and, and that you can rely on. Like who are the truth tellers
53:47
in your life? My family, my friends, you know,
53:51
I, I've had a lot of people before in my life that were like
53:56
half friend, half acquaintance that would just tell you what
53:58
you wanted. But my close group of friends,
54:00
they keep it honest and they're trying to push me towards
54:03
something. You know, even if they're not in
54:04
the state right now or they're where they want to be, they
54:08
still have enough love and compassion for me to be like,
54:10
look, you have the potential and you have the ability to be
54:13
greater, to do greater. So we're going to keep it honest
54:16
with you if you're off track and we're going to try to get you
54:18
back on track. My church community are the
54:20
people that really truly love me in that regard that they they
54:24
are the voices and the reason of truth.
54:26
And then my relationship with the Lord.
54:27
Obviously I wanted to get stronger, but don't get it
54:30
twisted. I can give you all, you know,
54:32
the verbs and and all the Christian vernacular, but the
54:35
truth is, is I'm still trying to grow in my relationship.
54:38
I still have leaps and mounds to be able to grow in my own
54:41
personal relationship. And so I believe that like for
54:45
me that that's helped me, those are my reasoning voices of
54:48
truth. And for anyone that's expiring
54:51
like a high school athlete or a college athlete, that they're,
54:54
they're yearning for more people around them that tell the truth,
54:59
that want the best for her. The best thing I would do is I
55:02
would truly tap into getting into the word of God because the
55:05
voice of truth, you start to see his character and within the
55:08
word. And so when you ever you get
55:10
around people that aren't telling you the truth or just
55:13
trying to Leech or connive or steal from you, you can compare
55:16
it to the character of God and his word.
55:19
And you start to see that doesn't match up to what God
55:22
has. That doesn't match up to this
55:25
person in the Bible that had this type of wisdom.
55:28
Then you start to, you know, be able to weed out people that are
55:31
are fluff and people that are real.
55:33
And so that's, that's really one of the brightest things and one
55:36
of the most beautiful things about my relationship and you
55:39
coming into my life at the time that that you did, because it
55:42
would have been easy for you to be able to hold me to a
55:45
different, you know, standard or give me fluff or give me stuff
55:48
like that. Based upon what the coaches that
55:51
told you, Hey, this is our guy. Be careful in the way that, you
55:54
know, you pushed and challenged me in the weight room and, and
55:57
to an extent to where I was able to take my game to a different
56:01
level because you were able to be true about this.
56:04
This is what you need to do to be able to take these bumps.
56:07
This is what you need to do to stay physically intact to be
56:10
able to be great. And so that was that's a
56:13
reasoning, the voice of truth. And so by that you only help me
56:18
become a better person and you only help me become a better
56:20
player. And I feel like for people that
56:22
are aspiring to be great, especially athletes, having
56:25
those reasons and voices of truth.
56:27
All you have to do is really just look at the word of God and
56:29
compare. And if you see the nature of
56:31
Jesus Christ, you start to see his characteristics and you
56:34
start to see everything about him and you can start to
56:36
compare. Look at your circle around and
56:38
see if they match anything, any of those fruits.
56:41
And then you'll you'll know, OK, this is the voice of truth or,
56:44
or this person is is not truly for me.
56:46
So that that helps me. And so if that helped me, I just
56:49
want to give it to whoever listens and hopefully it helps
56:52
them too. Well, Matthew, man, you've,
56:53
you've shared so much wisdom, so much gold in this conversation,
56:56
man, for both coaches with listening athletes, listening
57:00
people, people at any type of person listening, man, this has
57:03
been, it's been so cool to hear and just just hear the, the
57:06
wisdom coming from you. I mean, if people wanted to, you
57:11
know, see more of what you're doing or what's going on with
57:13
you, like is anything, any place they should check out or you
57:16
know, social medias or anything for.
57:19
Sure. So my social media is Isaac,
57:21
ISS, AC-5, McBride. Before I was just posting, you
57:25
know, majority content on just basketball because it was really
57:29
the, you know, sole consumption of my life.
57:31
Now that I'm trying to grow more in my faith, I'm starting to
57:34
write more. So I would like to, you know,
57:36
start putting the things that are right as far as devotional.
57:39
I'm also starting to do more tapping into broadcasting and
57:42
journalism. So I'll do more of the, you
57:44
know, breakdowns of, you know, some of your favorite players or
57:46
favorite athletes. Start putting more writings on
57:49
there, start putting more encouragement, start putting
57:51
more, you know, faith-based things.
57:53
So just, you know, follow me on there or you don't even have to
57:56
follow. It's a public profile.
57:58
I'll be putting stuff out weekly on my story for you to tap on.
58:02
Just things to be able to encourage the everyday person
58:04
that's trying to transition from the state that they are and
58:07
trying to become a better person or a better version of
58:09
themselves. So you know, that's my
58:11
Instagram. You know, I'll be putting myself
58:12
stack on there, my Twitter, anything that you need.
58:15
And I just want to be here to encourage and to be able to
58:17
serve whoever needs that in their life.
58:19
So you know, that's the last thing I'll leave y'all with.
58:22
If you want to catch me, catch me on there.
58:24
And obviously, you know me and you have a a good relationship
58:28
and you know, you can hit me anytime people that got my
58:30
number hit me up. You know, don't, don't, don't go
58:33
crazy. But you know, I might not always
58:34
be able to get to you, but hit me up and we can have
58:37
conversation. We could talk.
58:39
And so that's what I'll leave you with.
58:40
And I appreciate you, Coach Balloon for having me on this.
58:43
I've been seeing the work that you've been doing.
58:45
I just want to encourage you to continue to stay genuine to who
58:48
you are, encourage you to keep doing and putting out content
58:51
like this because it's not only helping Allegiant athletes or
58:54
high school athletes or college coaches, but it's helping all of
58:58
us. And it's inspiring all of us to
58:59
be able to have deeper conversations so that we can
59:02
have more substance in the world.
59:03
So I appreciate you for having me on your mind to be able to be
59:07
a guest on your show. And I appreciate the time that
59:09
you took out of your day. So I love you.
59:11
I thank you so much for the impact you had in my life and
59:14
for those that are listening, continue to listen to to this
59:17
podcast. It's a blessing.
59:19
Oh man, I'm grateful for you saying that, grateful for you
59:21
being here. And man, just encourage you to
59:24
them. There's a lot of people looking
59:25
up to you, your role model for a lot of people And and like I
59:28
said before, impacting a lot of people, impacting my life.
59:31
So man, I love you too. Keep doing, keep, keep living
59:33
your purpose, mate. You're impacting a lot of
59:34
people. And sorry you too.
59:36
Appreciate it, coach. If you enjoyed this conversation
59:38
and want to go deeper, check out my book Strengthen Numbers,
59:41
insight from top coaches and How to build your career, handle
59:44
failure and Achieve long term coaching success.
59:47
It brings together insights and wisdom from over 100 coaches
59:51
across all levels in sports. You can find it on Amazon and
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