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The Courage to Let Go (with Stephanie Winslow) · The Daily Writer

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: Hey friends, welcome to episode 86 of the Born to Create podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Kent Sanders, and this is the show where we explore the mindset, habits, and skills to help you make a bigger impact in your life and creative work.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: You can find previous episodes, my free ultimate toolkit for creative entrepreneurs, and much more at my website, which is KentSanders.net.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever noticed that some of the most important things we do in life are counterintuitive?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: They go against our human nature and they feel uncomfortable to us in the moment.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, our guest today on this episode is my friend Stephanie Winslow, and she's going to share a lot of wisdom about letting go, which is counterintuitive and usually uncomfortable for us.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: As creatives, we like to have control, but she's going to share her powerful story of learning to give up control.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: And in the process of doing that, she found some amazing blessings as a result.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'll share my conversation with Stephanie in just a couple of minutes, but first let's talk about a couple of quick things.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Number one is that I want to really encourage you to check out our Born to Create Facebook group.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: This is a community of artists, entrepreneurs, writers, creative types who have come together to help each other be more creatively successful.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: This is a really fun group and pretty much on a daily basis.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: We're discussing, we're helping each other, we're talking about things that are relevant to us as creatives and artists and entrepreneurs.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: So you can check it out at KentSanders.net slash Facebook group.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: KentSanders.net slash Facebook group, and that will redirect to the Facebook group where you can request to join, and we'll approve you and you'll be good to go.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Now before we get on to the interview, let's dive into our listener question for this episode.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: And this is a question that was sent in by my friend Katherine Hackman.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Catherine's a writer, and you can access her website at KatherineHackman.com, and that's Catherine with a C.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: CatherineHackman.com.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: She says, Do you have any tips for marketing or how to build a platform?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: So definitely I have some tips for this.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, Catherine, thanks for asking about this.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: That shows a huge amount of awareness.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of creatives and artists and writers, they don't really think about marketing.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: They just kind of assume that if you create something cool and put it out there, that people are going to just magically discover it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: So the fact that you're thinking about marketing and have this sort of on the top of your mind is really, really a good thing.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now there's lots of things that we could talk about related to marketing, and I'm certainly not like the world's biggest marketing expert by any stretch of the imagination.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: However, I have found several things that have worked for me, and I think these are principles that are broad enough to where they will help you if you're any kind of writer or any kind of artist or creative type as well.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: So three quick things.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Number one is define who you want to reach.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: Now, one of the things that is hard to accept for us as creative types is that our message or our art is not going to be for everyone.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: We make something and we want everybody to love it, and we want everybody to love us, and we kind of want everybody to go, oh, that's so great and so awesome.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: But the reality of it, especially if we're trying to build some type of a business with our creative work, the reality is that it's not for everybody.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: What we're creating is only for a small segment of people.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Now, hopefully that segment will grow over time, but the reality is that we're creating for a niche of people.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: We're creating for a group of people, and maybe it's not necessarily a small group, but we are creating for a group of people who will who our art or who our creative work appeals to.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: And uh for example, if you are a musician, the music that you create is not going to necessarily appeal to everybody because music is very personal, it's very emotional, and when you make a certain type of music and you decide to stick with that genre or that style, basically you're saying to everybody else who doesn't like that style, hey, this isn't for you.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's actually a really good thing.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: As a writer or as an artist or a musician or a creative, whenever you make something that is for a specific group, you have a much higher chance of success because you have defined in your mind who your art is for.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: And as much as we're defining who it's for, we're also defining who it's not for.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a really, really important principle.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: So that's not a bad thing, that's actually a good thing.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: So all of us, we need to think about who we are targeting with our art or with our creative work.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: So number one is define who you want to reach.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Number two is build an email list.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this is not really one of the most exciting parts of having a business or doing creative work because we think of email marketing and that kind of stuff like websites and marketing and those kind of things.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: We tend to think of those things as not very exciting and just sort of a nuisance that we have to put up with.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't want you to think of it that way.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: I want you to think of your email list as something that is very, very precious because those email addresses each represent a person who is on the other end of those emails that you're going to send out.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: Every week, whenever I send out my my weekly digest to my subscriber list, I love doing that because people respond back and they open those emails and they they see what I've written and you know many times they'll say, Hey, I really appreciated what you said, or I was touched by that, or thanks for being authentic and sharing your struggles or resources or whatever it is.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: But before we get there, we have to build that email list first.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, Catherine, on your website, I did notice that you have an opt-in box, which is awesome.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: People can sign up for your newsletter and your email list.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: But a suggestion that I have is that I would create a what's called the lead magnet so that you can give that away to subscribers.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: So for example, many times when you go to a website, you'll notice when you put in your email address, they will give you something in return.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's a checklist or a free ebook or a free course or video series or whatever it is.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: On my website, I actually just changed this a couple weeks ago.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: I did, I used to have a book called, I think it was called 21 Time Hacks for Writers.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I I had decent opt-in, it wasn't really that great.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but I recently changed it and really upgraded it to something called the uh what is it called?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: Let me scroll back up here.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: What did I call that thing?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's called uh you think I would know this, but I don't off the top of my head.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's called the Ultimate Toolkit for Creative Entrepreneurs.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually worked for a solid week, like dozens of hours on this lead magnet because I wanted to give away something really, really valuable to my audience, which is creative entrepreneurs, more or less.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you don't have to do something that extensive.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: You could in fact create something very simple, like just a simple checklist for writers.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Or um I know, Catherine, that you uh love to write about uh characters in the Bible, so you could even do something like, hey, here's a free PDF download of the top top ten uh female characters in the Old Testament and why they're so amazing or something.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just totally talking off the top of my head, but you kind of get what I'm saying.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: So building an email list can be really, really helpful because you're giving those subscribers something in return for for them giving you their email address.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: Now, something that I use is uh it's a company called Convert Kit, and it's an email marketing service.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're amazing.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh in fact, they're one of the uh sponsors of my podcast, so I do affiliate marketing with them.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: I love their service, so check out Convert Kit or there's others that are that are great as well, but I personally prefer ConvertKit.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um so anyway, back to the main point of all this.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, define who you want to reach, and number two, build an email list.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: Those are two really important marketing principles.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then number three, and finally, is expand your network and grow your audience.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Now there's lots of ways to do this, but some ways to expand your network might include uh introducing people to each other who don't know each other, because now you're kind of expanding your network of people who who have you in the mix of that relationship.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: I do this all the time.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um probably about once a week at least, I will identify people who I think are awesome people, and I will introduce them to each other over email or something like or over Facebook or something, and I'll say, hey, here's person number one, here's person number two.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: You guys should know each other because I think you could help each other.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a kind of a fun and very relational way to grow your network.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: But there are some others.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: You can attend events and also do speaking at events, and in fact, Catherine of course you know this, but for everybody else who's listening, the place that we met last fall was at a writing event in Havana, Illinois, small town.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: We met at the uh one of the buildings in the library complex there, and it was a very, very small event, but it was a it was a blast.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it because I got to meet some people, and of course we got to meet each other and uh sort of see the cool work that each other is doing.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you can attend events and speak at events, you can write guest posts on other people's blogs, and maybe have them write guest posts on your blog.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: You can become active in a few Facebook groups around your topic, which in your case would be things like the Bible or the Old Testament or storytelling, writing, uh self-publishing, those kinds of things.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: So those are just a few ideas about how to expand your network and grow your audience.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh this is not certainly an extensive or exhaustive list, but there are just a few things that you can put into practice immediately.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I would say the number one thing is just to pick a couple of things and do them consistently in terms of growing your audience.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: Focus on giving instead of getting, focus on being generous and helping people.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: And those things will come back to you in in sometimes weird and strange and unexpected ways.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: Don't stress out about marketing.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody who's listening to this probably gets stressed out by marketing, but just think of it as you're sharing things with people.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: And the more that you share, the more things will come back to you.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Catherine, thanks so much for your question, and I will be sending you an ebook and an audiobook of my previous book called The Artist Suitcase.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: And for everybody else listening, if you have a question about the creative life, habits, mindset, productivity, or writing, you can submit your question by going to KentSanders.net slash podcast and filling out the question form.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: Or if you want to, you can just shoot me an email at Kent at KentSanders.net.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: I check all my own email, I answer all my own messages, and if I use your question on the show, I will send you a free ebook and audiobook of the artist's suitcase.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hey, as I mentioned earlier, I'm excited today to have my friend Stephanie Winslow on the show.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Let me tell you a little bit about Stephanie.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: She is the author of the new book, Ascent to Hope, and she's also the founder of Blind Spot Consultants.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: She and her husband Marshall have been married for almost fifteen years, and they have two daughters, ages seven and nine.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Stephanie's passion is to empower restoration in people and businesses, and you will hear her talk more about that passion on this episode.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: In our conversation, we talk about several topics, including the amazing story behind Stephanie's new book, how to be a good caregiver to someone who is in crisis, starting your day with a clear, focused mind in a state of prayer, how to know if God is calling you to do something, and also the role that critics can play in your life.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Those are just a few of the things that Stephanie shares, as well as many more things.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: After the interview, make sure and check out the show notes at KentSanders.net slash podcast zero eight six.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: All right, let's get to the conversation with my friend Stephanie Winslow.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Stephanie, it's great to chat with you again.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you making time to be here on the podcast.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me, Kent.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: By the way, I really love your book, Ascent to Hope.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, we'll have a link to that in the show notes.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: And before we dive into the questions, I just want to congratulate you for your success with the book.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Congratulate you on your consulting business and just stepping out and doing a lot of cool things.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: You are being a great example for creative entrepreneurs in the sense of taking some leaps and doing new things and just putting yourself out there.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks for all the cool stuff that you're doing.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a wild ride so far.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I talked to a lot of people who would like to write a book or they've thought about writing a book for sometimes many years or even decades.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: So you've actually done it.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's kind of a big step.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I definitely want to hold you out to our listeners as an example of somebody who's just out there doing it.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: And you can do it, and you can tell a story, and you can figure out these processes and stuff.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I know it took a lot of courage.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know it took a lot of courage to write your book because it's this isn't just a kind of a simple nonfiction book where you're dispensing wisdom about something.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: This is a really personal book.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, before we get into the topic of courage, which is our main theme for this conversation, can you give us a snippet of what the book is about and why you wrote it?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Ascent to Hope um is really the story um that God brought me through.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he used the presence of addiction in my family as a catalyst to help me recognize my own soul depravity.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And um that when I was in pursuit of um control and pursuit of fixing and trying to solve this problem of addiction in the life of my loved one, um he really exposed parts of me that were in need of drastic repair.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, it's funny because you think as a believer, um my faith is obviously central to who I am, and it makes me who I am.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: And as the Bible says, when uh we we become a believer, he takes our heart of stone and gives us a heart of flesh.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, but that heart of flesh that I had had gotten really callous um from different circumstances in my life, and honestly, from just from my own will, trumping the will of God in my life, and um caring more about what I wanted than what God wanted.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so this this book is really kind of laying bare all that I learned through here's this problem that there is no resolution to, um, that I have control over.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have control, so letting that go, um, and then allowing God to walk me through a healing process, um, really exposing weak areas of my life and um not being afraid to step into those areas that aren't very pretty, um, but really just allowing him the space to heal and to mend and to rebuild me from my bottom because you know I I feel like I walked through a lot of the same behaviors that any addict has, um, and I had to hit a place of bottom where I there was nowhere else for me to go.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was at the end of myself, um, and I was broken, and so he put the pieces back together, and so that was a really long answer to your question, but um, that's more or less what Ascent to Hope is about.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: So if I came to you and I said, Hey, I have a friend or have a family member or someone in my circle who is going through some type of addiction or crisis of some kind, what would you tell me in order to help me through that process as someone who wants to help somebody else?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Is there something that you have learned then that you could share with me to help me be a better friend or caregiver to someone who is in crisis?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, first I would hand you this.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because I a lot of my learnings are in here.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's a few things that I think are central.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, first and foremost is prayer.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and prayer in that praying scripture over the situation and over the person.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think as as I'm using God's word to be my guide and my my voice, um, because what I was noticing about myself is that when I pray, I pray typically the you know the same things.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: I want, I'm praying for a resolution, I'm praying for um my own comfort, I'm praying for the person to be fixed or healed in the way that I see fit.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so praying scripture to me takes the focus off of me and what I want and puts it onto God and what he wants.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great point.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so prayer is is number one.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then two, it's the faster that you recognize that you cannot control or fix that the other person, um, the faster you can understand that it's your own healing and your own health that are important.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I need to be healthy, I need to be in a place emotionally, spiritually, physically healthy, so that when this person who I am um hurting for is ready to reach out and get help, I'm ready to do something about it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm ready to walk that journey with them.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but a lot of times we get sucked into the crazy, I'll call it, of um, you know, trying to walk on eight shells, trying to enable, not we don't try to enable, but we do enable, um and just trying to be um or maybe that that truth speaker in their life and you know coming to them with all these things like why don't you just you know go to treatment or why don't you just do this or why don't you just do that, or the idea people, and um we actually have no idea what it is that will be that thing that changes our loved one's heart.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we need to kind of get out of the way and let God do his work um and focus on ourselves because it starts with us in our vertical relationship with God, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And when we can get that right, um everything else kind of becomes a lot more clear and easier.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: So then how do you find the balance between I guess the way I would frame this is being too aggressive and trying to help somebody, but then also not being too passive because you don't just want to be a bystander and watch somebody completely self-destruct.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: So it how how do we how do we help somebody with the right attitude and with the right heart with the understanding that we're broken also?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: We have our own issues that we're going through, we have our own baggage and junk, but yet we also want to reach out to somebody and help them.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: How what did you learn about finding that balance through this whole process?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um first thing is community.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I was surrounded by um really a group of women who had been down a similar road.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I found the church that I attend actually has an Al-Anon group and an AA group that meet there.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I had to seek out community, I had to seek out relationships and also be willing to let those women be truth speakers to me and to point out when my behavior was getting out of line.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think when you when you do that, when you're open to having people speak into your life, that also allows room for the Holy Spirit to be a guide for you and to know when it's appropriate for you to step in and when it's appropriate to sit back.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and also grace, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Grace covers all of it, and so there are there's not gonna be anyone who walks through this journey perfectly.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're all gonna make mistakes, we're all gonna say things we shouldn't have said to the um to our loved one.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're all going to step in when we should have held back or not stepped in when we should have.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's there's gonna be times when we just mess up.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so just creating a space too for for grace for ourselves and knowing that we're not always gonna get it right, but that God is is over all of it, and that He can heal and repair and restore relationships.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's for me, I think the hardest part is that I know looking back the way I was handling things, I caused a lot of relationship damage because I was so um consumed with uh getting past this, right?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that the good old pick yourself up by the bootstraps, like let's just go, you know, and I'm I'm a doer, so I I want to tackle something and get through it and move on, move on to the next project.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: So this is um as the the book says, it's a long obedience in the same direction, it's not a quick fix, there is no snap your fingers, silver bullet.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um it is a submission and recognizing that this is gonna be a long journey.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: See, this is really fascinating.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Fascinating to me because and I really I I honestly hadn't made this connection until you're talking, uh, you know, kind of responding to that that question that the the impulses that it takes to be successive at successful as a creative entrepreneur.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, being organized, being assertive, taking action, all those same impulses that it takes to even to write a book, you know, or to finish anything to write a to run a business, to finish any type of creative project, those same impulses, if we turn those impulses onto our relationships, that actually backfires in a lot of ways.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: So what you're talking about is, you know, when it comes to our businesses or our creativity, having control is a really good thing.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean that's the whole idea of being an entrepreneur is having control.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: But then somehow we have to suppress that impulse when it comes to our relationships.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: I had not I had not really made that connection, and that that kind of explains uh a lot of heartache in my life.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, things and I'm I'm I'm sort of being a little dramatic with that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: But but that does explain, I think, for a lot of us why we we we feel like we can do so well with certain tasks or with creative things or with running something or organizing something, but then it's like why why am I pushing people away in my life?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm I'm trying to I'm treating people like a project.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: I um for myself, that's the the terminology that I use is is that I I don't want to treat my relationships or my my family like employees.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I've done that a lot.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and like you said, it creates a lot of heartache because and not that you don't treat your employees very well, you know, that's not the point.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that you can't talk to them and expect them to just fall in line and and do what you want because you're not paying them.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to to to do that.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's yeah, it's it's different.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have a different mindset for sure.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: That is really true.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of impatience that happens.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh at least, I mean, I I confess on my own heart.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a very task-oriented, I get extremely irritated with people who won't just do what they're supposed to do.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm a college professor, so you know, I I mean, I just uh maybe I shouldn't confess this publicly, but I do get really irritated with students sometimes.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in my own mind, not with them publicly or anything.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I just go, why can't you just do what I told you to do?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this isn't hard.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: Just do what I said, and you'll do well in the class.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's not complicated.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: But that doesn't always work with people.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Or that that it doesn't always uh motivate them in a in a good way, you know.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Those of us who are task-oriented or control freaks.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think most often what I've seen from a relationship side, it just causes people to shut down and they don't they don't want to engage you, they don't it's sort of like this numbing, they don't even hear what you're saying anymore.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the things that, you know, as we were lining up this conversation that we wanted to hit on is this idea of letting go of control.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I sense this theme going through this conversation, and it's getting a little uncomfortable because now you're pointing out you know, my not you, but it's raising an awareness of wow, maybe I even though I'm a I'm a five on the Enneagram, you know, I'm kind of a very nice outward person, but on the inside I'm just royaling because I want to have control and that impatience with things.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: So let's talk about this issue of of control, particularly when it comes to God in our lives.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: How do we still be successful in what we're doing, but also let go of that need to control?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: And how do we balance those things?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think for me, what has worked, and this I'll just speak from my own experience, is that um I'm really good at putting my what I want ahead of what I feel like God is calling me to because what I want is more comfortable, and what I want makes more sense from a worldly perspective, whether it's achievements or credentials or um, you know, just striving and going after things in my own strength.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, what I have to do in order to get that um knowing who's boss right is a physical change of my posture that I have to get on my knees and you know face to the ground and start my days that way, because if I don't, I just am off to the races and doing whatever it is that I want to do.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: And not that any of the things that I'm doing are not great or or valuable things, but it's also knowing priorities, like what should I be spending my time on, and who should I be spending my time with?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's also another really critical piece, is that you know there's so many connections that can be made and so many uh friendships that you can have, so many activities you can be involved in, but it's first things first.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if I don't start my day having the wisdom and acknowledging the lordship of God in my life, um and being willing to submit to whatever he has planned for me that day, I get a little janky as it goes throughout the day.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and by the end of the day, then I just I find that I'm so much more um emotionally and physically and mentally spent if I've spent the day doing my things my way.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that in our world, being still and being quiet is not something that is looked at as um a beneficial thing because we're not we feel unproductive, but it's actually the most productive way, I think, to start the day with just a clear, focused mind, um, being still, being quiet, and um whether it's you know just meditating on a scripture or sitting and and not just not doing anything and and allowing God to fill us, fill our cup.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um for me, that's I feel like how I keep my sanity, but also recognize who is truly Lord of my life.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, what does this look like on a practical level for you on a daily or a regular type of basis?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a certain amount of time you spend just being still or meditating, reading scripture, praying?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like for you in practice?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um it looks like I do my best to spend about 45 minutes in the morning.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I get up early, and I am not a morning person by any stretch of the imagination.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a discipline that has developed in my life in more recent years.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I really just felt like God was asking me to spend more time with him.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I finally got to the point where I stopped excusing my way out of it that, you know, I'm I'm too busy for that, I'm too busy for that, I'm too busy for that.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: But I would always have time to watch a show I wanted or go to Target or go, you know, grab a cup of coffee with a friend, but I wouldn't wasn't making him a priority.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so he, in one sense, was saying to me, like you say that you love me with your mouth, but your actions are not showing that.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if I want to have intimacy in relationship with my husband, I have to spend time with him.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the same way it is with God.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: I have to spend time with him as well.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so practically what that looks like is about 45 minutes in the morning.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I spend about three to five minutes just sitting, um, quiet.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I'll have a scripture that I just read over and over and over again, and sometimes I'll just have a word.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: It might be peace.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's something that I'm really feel like I need from God that day, or if I'm really struggling with something, uh I'll just take that word and and just think on it and ask, you know, God to reveal to me as then I open up the word and dig in.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, I'm actually going through a um one-year chronological Bible, which is pretty cool.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um haven't done that before, so um I mean Deuteronomy.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: That can be a little, it's got some some dry stretches.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: I sound really that sounds really bad to say that about the Bible.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: But from from like a, you know, you're in, you know, like first and second Samuel.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's cool stories going on, or there's, you know, you're in Ephesians, there's all this great practical stuff, but you know, there are large stretches of the Old Testament.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm doing the same thing.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: You are.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in the middle of Isaiah right now.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, you know, I mean, I've studied the Bible my whole life, you know, I've taught the Bible, but I'm like, I I'm really looking forward to getting to something, you know, something that is really practical in nature.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: And oh that stuff happened.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: I love Isaiah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Isaiah is like my one of my favorite books because it's I think so hard to understand.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, yeah.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I I I spend some time reading and then kind of finish it up with prayer and journaling.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um I have a prayer wall in my closet that I have scriptures written.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: So if there's like someone that I'm praying for in my life, I try to find a scripture that goes with whatever that circumstance is and just pray that scripture over the circumstance.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, I feel like my words pale in comparison to the words of scripture, and that if I can really just speak truth over it, um I don't know, I feel better about that.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it totally makes sense.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, I hope you're enjoying our conversation, and we'll get back to it in just a moment.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: But first, I want to take a second to mention that this episode is brought to you by Audible.
• 32:40
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• 32:45
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• 32:53
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• 32:55
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• 32:57
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• 32:59
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• 33:06
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• 33:14
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• 33:27
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• 33:33
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• 33:39
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• 33:41
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• 33:48
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• 33:51
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• 33:54
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• 33:57
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• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: And now let's get back to the conversation.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: So let me drill down into this idea of God's calling a little bit.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: How do we know or I guess we can only speak for ourselves, but in your own life, in your journey with the Lord, and when with in your journey in business and writing and all these kinds of things, how do you know if God is prompting you to do something versus something that you want?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: And and maybe that's that's a that's kind of a loaded question in many ways.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: A question that doesn't really have an answer, I guess.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: But how do you process that?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: How do you know if it's something that you want versus something that what God wants?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe sometimes they're not the same thing.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think in my life, first I had to ask actually ask God his opinion.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, where I think when I in my earlier years of my career, I wasn't really concerned with what he thought.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was just going with it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, well, you know, he'll lead me, he'll guide me.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, he he does give us grace in that too, that you know, he he knows our hearts and he knows that we love him, and we're doing the best that we can.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I really got to a place where I I wanted something more, and I I was burnt out on doing business just for the sake of business and making a widget and getting the money back for it.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was just it felt very empty.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so there's been a couple of times in my life where I God has spoken pretty clearly.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: One of them was to sell my business.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then the second time was to write this book and to tell my story.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um so those two times I've felt like I've heard his voice very clearly say, do this.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have, you know, and this isn't what I have for you with the business, so you need to get out.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then to write this book.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I tried with everything in me to run away from writing, um, telling him no, like I'm not doing this, but he slowly and gently removed every excuse that I had.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like I don't there's no time.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, there you are gonna have time because there isn't gonna be any other opportunities for you.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is the thing that you're gonna do, whether you want to or not.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, well, I don't know where to start, you know, I have no idea.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: And after I sat in that for a while, um I actually have an acquaintance.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: She's not wasn't really even a friend, she was an acquaintance.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I walked into her office one day, and she could just tell by my demeanor that something was going on.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, uh, she asked me, So how are you today?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, good, you know, the normal good old American answer that we all give.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and she's like, No, really, what's what's going on?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: And she's also a pr a strong believer, so she could see my and you know, into my heart.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I just melted in her office and said, you know, I'm running because I know God is asking me to write, but I have no idea where to begin or what that will look like or anything.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like I'm not a writer.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: I if you would tell my high school English teacher that I'm a writer, like he would laugh because like it's not it wasn't any a passion of mine.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and um, so it's just been interesting.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it so anyway, in this encounter, then she said, I know just the person that you need to talk to.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so she connected me with another woman who um helps people like me who don't know the writing process walk through it, and um so that was you know total God moments in my life where he intervened.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I think to me, if we're not even asking the question, God, what do you think about this?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I also feel like if we have the belief that God is going to just, you know, have lightning bolts from above and lay out this crystal clear plan before us, it's like like a little roadmap all laid out.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's at least for me, not how he's worked.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, that's pretty unrealistic.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just what's what's the next step that I need to take?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think he's been very faithful to do that for me, that he'll just he continues just to illuminate what's the next step?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: What's the next step?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I get so frustrated with that because I'm a a vision person, I like to know the whole picture.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm sure you can relate to that.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: I can relate, yeah.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's really, you know, the baby steps, and um I in the book I talk about how obedience is like a water droplet on the surf surface of water.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I take a step of obedience and I walk in the will of God or what he's asking me to do, I feel he's leading me to do it, prompting me to do, that one step is like a ripple and it goes out and impacts every relationship I have.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's pretty amazing, actually.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to take a take a second and because you're you've given us a lot of things to think about, you know, and you've given me a lot of things to think about.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: Things that I'd here's one of the reasons I do this podcast is there's there's many reasons, but one of the major reasons is because I always learn something without fail.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not it's not always the same things that I'm learning.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: So like what you're saying is it's really speaking to my heart in ways that I hadn't anticipated.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like you're in ways that I can't really articulate.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because this is a we're this interview with you, and I don't have all the time to you know, this is not an interview about me.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: But it's it's really fascinating because this happens a lot on the show where I think it's gonna be about one thing, and I prep questions, I prep, you know, here's kind of the direction we're gonna go.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then it goes a totally different direction.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: And that's always a good thing.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: But what I wanted to say was I want to take a second and for everybody who's listening to really think about what Stephanie is saying, because there's a lot of people who are going through some sort of a crisis, you're at a crossroads, you're wondering, well, what's the next step I should take in my business, with my art, with my job, with a relationship or something.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's just this simple act of asking God to show us, and then the willingness to be open to look for what he has for us, that is such a childlike simple thing, but man, I forget that most of the time.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: I and I, you know, it's like we we've been a person of faith for a long time, and we sort of think that we're at this level of maturity, and then then we stop and realize, oh, I haven't really even asked God what he thinks about this or what I should do about this.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: I just assumed I would have to figure this out on my own.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe we're just making this process way too hard.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, that's a great, great point.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think especially for people who are very driven to make things happen, it's so easy to fall into that pattern of thought where you you just you just want something to happen.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you you know take the bull by the horns and you go get it done.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then only later to think, well, was that really what I should have done?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: Or you know, like, was that the right thing to do?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, it's not like you know, the things that we're talking about are are bad behaviors or you know, just poor choices overall.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's just you know, making understanding, I guess it maybe is the point that there's good decisions and then there's the best decisions.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the difference between walking in my plan and God's plan is I can make good decisions on my own because he's given me a mind, he's given me resources.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what's the best?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: What is his best for me?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: And his best for me is usually way different than my best because he knows the whole picture and I don't.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: That is so true.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: It it does oftentimes seem like the way that God works in the way that we have our best success is by doing things that are counterintuitive, that don't seem obvious or things that are the total opposite of what we think that we should do.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that's that's a uh that's a great point.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I also want to stop and and encourage everybody who's listening to this to pay attention to what Stephanie is talking about in terms of you're taking a step, you're you're doing something.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you don't have to see the whole picture at once.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: That we see uh a small part of the picture and then we're obedient and we figure that out, then we take the next step and so forth.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: So was that difficult for you, specifically with writing this book, is just starting just starting the process and taking that first step without being able to see the whole end result at once?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say that that first toe into the water um was was difficult.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um but then I I had some pretty good accountability um uh surrounding me for continuing walking through the process of writing.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: So that's if you're looking to write a book, I think that is a major thing to consider is who is going to hold you accountable to do what you say that you're going to do.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great question.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um because otherwise everything else will take priority over it.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's something that you really feel like God has put not put on your heart to write, tell a certain story, um I think feel like it's even more so like that there's just all these distractions and things that that can get in the way of getting it done.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that accountability I think is huge.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: But also then for me again, because it's a personal story, it impacts and talks some about my family situation.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um so I had a at the end of it, I had another sort of obedience step was okay, the book is done, and now I actually have to talk about it and tell people and start using my voice.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I got you know really mad at God.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, why why do you give me this like tea little voice?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh that's not like a strong, bold, charismatic voice.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you want me to to to share this story, like what you know, I just it's almost comical, really.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um and but he reminds me that he will be my voice and he will be you know, go go before me and plant the seeds that need to be planted.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um but also in with my family when the book was actually published and out, um that was a another really big emotionally hard thing for me to walk through.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just giving it up to them and being willing to hear their feedback or fear hear their frustration or hear their anger or just not knowing how they were gonna react and respond to it.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's led to a lot of really good conversations.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think some some healing has happened um as well for through for all of us through that.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, that was another huge obedience step was okay, it's done, and now let's go talk about it.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um get it out there for people.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, how did writing the book change you in terms of maybe feeling more courageous or feeling um compelled to do something that's even harder, or you know, how do you feel like it changed you courage-wise?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me, um writing the book changed my perspective from self-sufficiency to God's sufficiency.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: And what I mean by that is that in the business world, I'm self-sufficient.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know what I'm doing.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm I'm confident, I'm uh secure in knowing what in my training that what I've walked through, my experiences that I've seen, I'm confident.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: I know what I'm doing.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: I could stand in front of anyone and and talk about um process improvement or you know, strategic planning or whatever it is.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: I there's no uh fear there.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: With this, um, with writing, it was so outside of my comfort zone.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've I've journaled, but that's just like stream of flow, you know, stream of conscience, just blah on the page, you know, and in my prayers.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so it wasn't ever like neatly organized or you know, having to to convey a thought to anyone else else other than myself and between me and God.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: So um I think I found that I don't have to be sufficient, I'm not sufficient really, to to walk in what God's asking me to walk in, because just you know, like the verse says, when I am weak, then I am strong, because he fills that gap.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if he asks me to do something, he's absolutely gonna quit me to do it.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like he's gonna, hey, go over here and do this, and then not give me the tools I need to do it.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like that that would be just mean.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't serve a mean God, we serve a loving God.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: So if he's asking you to do something, just trust that he's giving you exactly what he what you need to fulfill that call.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: So for somebody who is is considering uh some type of, maybe they're thinking about writing a book, maybe they'd like to start a business, maybe they they'd like to make a pivot of some kind or create an album of music, you know, whatever it is, what kinds of things, you know, assuming that that they have really prayed about it and they they're seeking God's direction, their hearts in the right place, what are some things that they should be looking for in terms of God confirming a certain direction?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Would it be something like friends confirming it for you?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: Would it be kind of an internal piece?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: Would it be your family buying into the vision and giving you a thumbs up?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, those kinds of things.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what specifically would be some things that people could be looking for?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I know it's different for everybody, but it but in general.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think repetition is one thing that has come up for me.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like if it's just something that can't you cannot get out of your mind, it's almost like it's hunting you down.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and I think you know, God pursues us like that.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it makes sense that we just can't shake an idea or we can't shake um a thought, or um, but then also I find that random places there'll be like somebody will just say one little mind, and I'm like, hmm, like that is totally in alignment with what I thought I heard God saying to me, or you know, and just being aware, being conscious of that God is going to speak to you.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, again, if we start with asking him that question, be ready for him to answer.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it might not happen, you know, in that five minutes that you're sitting there praying, but he will answer in his time.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so we just have to have ears to hear and be ready to receive what he's got.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I also feel like those people we I think we all have them in our lives who are like the devil's advocate people.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: Who are like uh I'm if somebody tells me I can't do something that spurs me on to like make sure I can do it because it's like you know, push pushes my motivation a little bit.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um so but the the devil's advocate people in my life, um, my husband is actually one of those people.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um I present him with my thoughts or with an idea that I have, and he kind of he thinks so differently than I do that he gives me all the reasons from his perspective, or not not even the reasons why it won't work, but just gives me other things to think about and consider.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then I can go back and pray over those things and think more deeply about those things.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I don't know, repetition, again, the asking of God first, and then to me, those devil's advocate people, I I don't always uh appreciate those people.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's hard to in the moment.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, um you you don't want to just be surrounded by yes people that are just oh yeah, great, great, great, because they're not really challenging you.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um you need the people who are gonna challenge you.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: So there is a sense in which critics can play actually a really helpful role in our lives.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: Not people who are nasty, hateful critics, you know, hopefully we don't have too many of those in our lives, but people who aren't just yes men or yes women who are gonna give us honest feedback and give us some things to think about because that helps refine our direction and our vision.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: And we need that.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think too, it it sort of ignites that fire.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's something that you're really passionate about and somebody's trying to debunk um or throw cold water on what you're doing, if it's something that's really gonna be lasting, to me, that is more like adding fuel as opposed to throwing water, cold water.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that criticism can really be, you know, like I said, the the fuel or whatever and and try and grow that fire.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's this verse in Jeremiah that talks about that um the God's word is is like um fire trapped in his bones, and he has to speak, he has to proclaim.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the kind of passion that we have to have if we want to start a business or we want to write a book.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it you cannot not double negative there, but you can you know you can't stop yourself from doing it.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: You've just got to do it.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: It it's burning in your bones.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious how you see your consulting business and your book related because your book is not on a topic that really is related to consulting, but I'm curious from a creative entrepreneur perspective, how do you see those things working together or are they just completely separate and it's okay for those two coexist, but but they don't really connect with each other?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's funny because for a long time I thought they were very um separate.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: But um, last fall I went on a retreat with a group called Blind Side.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: My business is Blind Spot, Blind Spot, Blind Side Um Discovery Retreat.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, local people in St.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: Louis have put it on.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that we had to do was actually write um a vision statement for ourselves and who are we?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: And when I did that, I walked through that, I recognized that my business and the book are an outflow of who I am, and so my vision is that I want to um empower restoration in people and businesses, and so from process improvement standpoint, there's something that's broken there, yeah.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: And from the addiction standpoint, or from uh any actually any hard thing that people are walking through, something is broken there, and so I want to help people and businesses find a way to be restored back to um whatever it is that they're trying to get to.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it might be restored healing, it might be restored um finances, it might be restored um processes, but I really want to empower people to find restoration.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so from that perspective, my book and my business are absolutely related because they're doing the same thing, it's just in two separate um avenues.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad I asked this question.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_03: I had not planned on asking that, it just came to mind a couple minutes ago, but I'm so glad I did because that is a magic insight.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: It really is.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because we have we can have these different impulses, you know, as creative people, and we think they're not related, but they all are coming from the same, the same deep impulse.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: So there's definitely a lot of value in figuring out what our vision is for our life, what is the big thing that we want to accomplish?
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that same impulse can be achieved through a variety of ways.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_03: So that that makes a lot of sense.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of everybody listening, you know, all the creative people are like, oh, I've got all these despair things happening.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they are all related in some way.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Stephanie, thanks for taking the time to be on this show.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: You have given me a lot of things to think about that I hadn't even anticipated.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I do you're gonna have a lot of things to say, but um, again, this is why I do the show is to get to talk to cool people like you, and uh we can share this with our listeners, and they can receive a lot of value from it as well.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: How can our listeners connect with you and your work and your book as well?
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the the best place really is my website.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's ascent2hope.com, and you can buy books there.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um you can learn more about me and see some reviews and that kind of thing, and all my events that I'm going to be speaking at are listed or should be listed there.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm also on uh all the social media channels, Facebook, Instagram.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um you can find Ascent to Hope or Stephanie Winslow in those LinkedIn I'm on as well.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, just track me down.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm gonna encourage people to also sign up for your email list.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'll have a link to that in the show notes because you put out some really good, thoughtful content.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I want to encourage you in your can in the continuation of your writing journey because the book is great.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's well written, it's a great story, uh, a good cover.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I always notice that stuff.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: I like the layout, like the interior layout.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: I know that sounds super geeky, but but that's important.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think it's important for a book to physically look good.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, you've done a really nice job on this.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: So and I look forward to seeing the second one.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: I hope that you're thinking about books three, four, five, and six and on down the road.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you so much.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: Cool, thank you.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Stephanie Winslow.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: Here are my three biggest takeaways from our conversation.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, the value of letting go of things that you cannot control.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: And this is true both of people and of situations.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes in our lives, we like to control everybody around us.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if we're a creative entrepreneur, we have books we're working on, we have websites or courses or a business that we're running, and we like to have control over those things.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's part of the major appeal of being a creative entrepreneur is the fact that you're starting something, you're building something, and you're in charge of it, and you have the responsibility but also the opportunity to grow something.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: However, life is not always like that, is it?
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: Especially when it comes to people.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_03: We can't control people.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes we can't control the situations that happen to us.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I was really moved and impacted by Stephanie's reflections on the process of learning that we need to let go of things.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a great lesson that I guarantee I'm going to be thinking about for quite a while.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: Number two is the struggle between what you want and what God wants.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: Stephanie brought up the issue that sometimes there's a chasm between what we want and what God wants.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're really assertive, or you'd like to have control, or again, if you have this impulse to be a creative entrepreneur, this is really hard because sometimes we don't want to admit that maybe we're pursuing something that God doesn't want for us.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to challenge all of us to have the courage to actually ask God.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_03: God is just what you want from me.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: Is the thing that I'm pursuing is the business that I'm building or the book that I'm writing, or are the speaking engagements that I'm doing, are the things that I want for my life and for my business, are those the things that you want?
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna be just gut level honest with you.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's really scary to me because the things that I want in life, I really, really, really want those things.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm convinced that they're what I what I should have.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_03: So there is a lot of humility and a lot of scariness, honestly, involved in just asking God outright, is this what you want for my life?
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not what you want for my life, then show me.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: Now the cool thing about this is that if there's something different that God wants for our lives and we're open to receiving that, then that's gonna be so much better than if we want something, but it's not what God wants.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: So let's all step out on faith and just have the courage to just ask God, what do you want for my life?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is what I'm pursuing what you really want?
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_03: And let's not be afraid of the answer.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because if it's what God wants, then it's gonna be so much better for us anyway.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: Then um observation number three, my my third takeaway here is why do we and this is just a question.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: Why do we run away from what we're supposed to be doing?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_03: Stephanie talked about this issue of calling and how to discover what God wants for our lives.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I just want us to think about this question why do we run away sometimes from what God wants us to do?
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: Stephanie mentioned in our conversation that God removed every excuse from her regarding writing her book.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought that was such a powerful insight because sometimes we're like Moses, we're standing there making excuses like I don't want to do that, I don't want to do that.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then God takes away those excuses and those barriers, and all of a sudden we don't have a reason to not do what we're supposed to be doing.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_03: So think about your life.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_03: Is there something that God is asking you to do?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: And what is that thing?
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: My gut feeling is that you probably know what it is, because many times the thing that we're afraid of doing the most is the thing that God is calling us to.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason why we're afraid of it is because we can't do it without God's help.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: We can't do it without other people in our life that He sends our way.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: We can't do it without stepping out of faith and taking a risk.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's why we're afraid of it, because we can't do it on our own power and in our own wisdom and with our own experience that we already have.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna require something additional.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_03: Meaning God's gonna have to really help us do that thing.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_03: So what is God asking you to do?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_03: Is there something that you're afraid of?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_03: Do we have the willingness to ask him and then to obey when he shows us the direction that he wants us to go?
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: Stephanie also mentioned something very interesting.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_03: She said there's a difference between good decisions and best decisions.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe sometimes God's best for us is different than what we think our best is for us.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_03: He knows the full picture, we don't, so I feel like I'm preaching a little more than I norm normally do, and maybe that's because I used to be a pastor, and you know you can take the pastor out of the pulpit and out of the church or out of the the stage.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: I used to be a worship pastor.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: You can take the pastor out of that setting, but uh you can't always really take the the pastoring out of the person who used to be a pastor.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: It just is kind of part of our DNA, I guess.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: So that's my encouragement to you guys today.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um this was our really good interview.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna be thinking about the things that Stephanie shared for quite a while.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_03: So lots of lots of wisdom that she shared with us, and I'm really thankful for that.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, those are my thoughts, but I'd love to hear what you think about this episode.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you can let me know what you think in a couple of different ways.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: One is that you can head over to Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and a review for the show, uh, or you can go to this post on my website, which is campstanders.net slash podcast086 and you can leave a comment on this episode.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: Just scroll down to the bottom of the page and you can let me or Stephanie know what you thought about it.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: If you leave a comment for Stephanie, I'll make sure that she gets it.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: Also on that page, you'll find all the show notes and links and all the stuff that we mentioned in this episode.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: I want to give a huge thanks to Stephanie for taking the time out of her busy schedule to share in this amazing conversation.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_03: If you enjoyed this episode, please let her know that you enjoyed it by hitting her up on Twitter at Ascent2Hope.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's A-S-R-C-E-L-T-R-T-O-H-O-P-E atcent to hope.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_03: And finally, I want to thank you guys, because without you, our listeners and our audience, the show would not exist.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_03: Make sure to check out my free ultimate toolkit for creative entrepreneurs, which is packed with 24 amazing resources to help you write and self-publish your book, unlock your creative genius, grow your business, and become much more productive.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: You can find the free toolkit at KentSanders.net slash toolkit.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: And hey, before I close up shop here, I want to end with a quote.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: This is from one of my favorite artists ever, Vincent Van Gogh, who said, I would rather die of passion than of boredom.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_03: I hope that quote encourages you on your creative journey.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_03: Hey friends, until next time, remember that you were born to create and design to make a difference.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_03: Now go create something awesome.