Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Building a Restaurant Under Pressure With Emmanuel Chavez Episode 199

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Building a Restaurant Under Pressure With Emmanuel Chavez Episode 199 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
If we didn't get a start, it was going to be motivation for us to
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get a start. If we did get a start, I was
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going to make sure that the team understood that that start
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doesn't make us better than anyone, but we have more
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responsibility than anyone. Hello chefs.
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This is Chefs PSA and I'm your host Andre Natera.
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Today I'm joined by Chef Emmanuel Chavez of Tatamo in
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Houston, a Michelin starred chef whose tasting menu restaurant
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has earned national recognition, including Esquire's Best New
0:27
Restaurants and a James Beard Best New Restaurant Finalist
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nod. In this episode we talked about
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the origins, the pressure of rapid success, and what it takes
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to build and run a Michelin level tasting menu in a tiny
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kitchen. We talked about growth,
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leadership, and finding your voice under pressure.
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Stay tuned. Chef, I'm glad you're here.
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I want to first of all congratulate you on all the
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success that you've achieved lately.
1:01
So the Michelin star, congratulations, but you've
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you've been on a run. How did we get here?
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Like how did this run began? It is.
1:10
Thank you for having us. It's super excited to be here.
1:12
Massive fan. I don't know, things just kind
1:16
of just happened so, so quickly. And then you have 30 seconds to
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yourself, whether it's in the restroom contemplating your
1:23
whole career. And then you start to think back
1:25
like, man, I'm 20 plus years into cooking.
1:28
It's hasn't been that, that fast.
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But I, I, I love it that you started with, with the accolades
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because off camera we're talking about accolades, how they can be
1:38
a double edged sword. And for restaurants like ours
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that people don't know that are the modern day small business
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mom and pop, so to speak there. We're not, we don't have the
1:50
infrastructure for certain accolades.
1:53
So when we started accumulating at a really fast pace, it
1:58
definitely shifted how we tried our basically our whole five
2:04
year plan changed. We're no longer to be making the
2:08
mistakes that most restaurants or business owners were able to
2:10
make. We had to tighten up the ship
2:13
without having the infrastructure, the financial
2:15
help or even the space to like be able to accommodate those
2:19
accolades coming our way. When did the team open?
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We signed lease 2021, we open 2022.
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So there's like idea was born in the pandemic.
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Basically, yeah, we're while everyone was doing sourdough,
2:30
we're doing tortillas. Yeah.
2:32
And it kind of just didn't stop. When, when you opened it in
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2021? So now we're in 2026.
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How different is it when you open to what it is now from a,
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from a food philosophy, from cuisine or even service?
2:45
Everything when we started, we wanted to use, we wanted to do a
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restaurant, right, But pandemic restaurants didn't exist.
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So we shifted into wholesale. So now we had to learn how to
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create accounts, mass produced tortillas, give those the masa
3:01
to other chefs to be able to do other things during the pandemic
3:03
and specials. So we were no longer cooking.
3:05
We would just we're providing a business or service.
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So that was very hard ship in, in my career 'cause I had no, I
3:14
didn't know how to bulk anything up until something that was
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going to be used, utilized for some someone else being a chef.
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And you know, it's very selfish. Like my, my masa, my dish, my,
3:27
my vision. It's no longer that.
3:28
It's about the customer, the driving and delivery, the
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invoices and things of that. Once we got over the hump and
3:36
things kind of just started to flourish and make sense for us,
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then we started going back and like, OK, this, this worked for
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us. This is funding itself.
3:47
Let's go back into the restaurant and we've opened 16
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seated, 16 seats tasting menu. That wasn't a tasting menu.
3:55
So you opened a la carte and then transition tasting?
3:57
Menu No, we've opened brunch. Oh, you opened for brunch?
4:00
Because we were doing pop ups, man.
4:02
It's a bad word in a lot of places.
4:03
It is. So it's funny because I, I, I
4:06
have a, a line of clothing that I do for chefs.
4:09
PSA it says Buck French and people ask me like, do I hate
4:13
brunch? No, I don't hate it.
4:14
Like I just I, I don't like working it and my gripe with
4:18
brunch. So I want to, I want to make
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sure I go on record because I sometimes people like it like
4:22
haters like what you know, brunches like I understand that
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my problem with brunch is sometimes a restaurant's not set
4:28
up to deliver it. Correct.
4:30
There's restaurants that are set up to deliver brunch, meaning to
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have an AM crew and APM crew and the AM crew knows how to work
4:35
it. Where I have a problem with
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brunch is that it's the PM crew during dinner service Saturday
4:42
night, the busiest service, prepping for brunch, closing,
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going out, partying, coming in hungover and opening for brunch.
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That's where I have a problem with brunch.
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So for people that aren't sure why I I hate brunch so much, I
4:55
don't hate brunch. Like I understand it's also a
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great driver of revenue in the economic engine and it's a it's
5:01
a great meal period. Like if you're paying rent on
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your property, like you're paying for that service when
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you're closed too. So why not be open?
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You're even, I'm excited you're paying for Sunday brunch rent,
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so might as well serve it. So I get that my thing is like,
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but if you're going to do it, don't do it to the detriment of
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your staff. Correct.
5:20
No, I I agree 100% and I've worked in restaurants where it
5:23
is exactly what you described. Saturday night service, we deep
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clean, leave at 1:00 AM and then come back at 7:00 AM and prep or
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I worked at restaurants where the Saturday night crew kind of
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tap into the prep for brunch and then you come in thinking you're
5:36
ready to go and then your shallots are gone, your chives
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are gone and it's it's a mess. If it's not even structured
5:42
properly, it can be been in the. Ass I I joke around.
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I say brunch is the only service that that ruined Sunday brunch
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ruined Saturday night dinner because because the cooks were
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busy prepping brunch instead of focusing about the orders.
5:56
But I've come to realize that brunch actually makes some of
6:01
the greatest cooks. If you endure brunch, if you
6:03
love it, because brunch is more about nurturing people than the
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actual. It has to be a great dish,
6:08
right? It's about commodity and
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understanding the you mean some plus list, understanding that
6:14
you have to be up on time, that you have a responsibility to the
6:16
team not to go out. But if you endure those things,
6:19
Oh my God, you're going to have a very successful career.
6:22
Yeah, So little things. So, so you, you open for brunch
6:26
and then and then from there you transition into like, how do we
6:29
go from brunch to tasting menu? We went from brunch because.
6:31
It's funny. Well, people don't know if if
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you didn't pick up what I said earlier, they're not familiar
6:34
with you. Like how do we go from brunch to
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Michelin *? That's a great question.
6:39
We went from brunch. We started with brunch because
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we're doing the pop ups in between.
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So people knew of us through pop ups.
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So it was going to be very hard for us to just transition random
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like we no longer doing pancakes and because of the yes, we're
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going to do a tasty menu. So we understood the market,
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right? You have to like slowly make
6:57
that transition. Instead of us doing pop ups, we
7:01
had to bring people in. So how do you reap people in?
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By giving, by putting things on the plate that they trust you
7:07
that they enjoy. So the smart thing for us was to
7:10
start with brunch, get their trust back, get them to come to
7:13
us, understand where the space is, the commute and things of
7:16
that. Once we got through that hump,
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then slowly we started like, hey, now we're doing a tasting
7:21
menu. It's going to be 4 courses.
7:23
Two months in, that's five courses.
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That's 5565. Little by little we start
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adding. The thing that we I think worked
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for us is that we didn't do it with an ego.
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People open restaurants with egos and not with business
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plans. We open it with a business plan
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and not with the ego. So we slowly increased what we
7:45
were able to do and that kind of helped.
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Those kind of got it. Once we got the first accolate,
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then we started to attract cooks.
7:53
What was the first big accolade that you got that started?
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You started to see the shift and not only how you operated but
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also in attracting. Cooks, I think, if I'm not
8:02
wrong, Squire named those one of the, I think it's 5025, best in
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America, 2022. And I do think they rank them.
8:12
If I'm not mistaken, I think we ranked at 10 and that tracked a
8:16
lot of got a lot of attraction because before that in Houston,
8:21
there was in a lot of restaurants coming up in the in
8:24
a national way in the national life locally, yeah, left and
8:27
right, we open restaurants nationally.
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I think we're one after maybe Oxford by Justin that was kind
8:34
of being recognized at a national level and that
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definitely piqued people's interest and started to see, oh
8:40
wow, the pandemic, kids are doing something special and that
8:43
just that came. Did you say the pandemic kids
8:46
that's. Pandemic kids.
8:47
Yeah, I liked it. It was those as a pandemic
8:49
babies, kids. Yeah, OK.
8:51
There's a lot of new. Restaurants there.
8:52
Pandemic babies it is. Yeah, it's a lot of those out
8:54
there. Yeah.
8:56
How did it feel when you got that Esquire?
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Like, like when you started to realize that, hey, OK, this is
9:03
something, how did it, how did that Esquire feel when it first
9:07
came out? Honestly didn't feel like
9:08
anything because I didn't. I knew we weren't ready for it.
9:11
But you thought you weren't ready.
9:12
For it. I knew we weren't ready for it
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again, not from a legal standpoint from like, OK, we're
9:17
going to get busy. People are going to expect more
9:19
from us. We don't have the infrastructure
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for it. So now we got to be very careful
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how how we take this, right? Let's take the compliment, but
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then let's move past it. It doesn't exist the following
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day. Just put it away.
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It's going to be there forever, right?
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But let's little by little, let's not say yes to everything.
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We don't have to do every pop up.
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We don't have to do every chef guess.
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Slowly start building a culture within the team.
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Let's start bringing in more talent, teaching them properly,
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and then we'll see what what where that gets us.
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That's really mature. Of you by the way, I I I know
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like a lot of people that get a little bit of shine.
9:53
It's like I'm the fucking best it.
9:56
Doesn't work like that. Yeah, it doesn't work like that.
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Fresh news one day or news the next day.
10:01
It's the cycle of life. Yeah, how did?
10:04
OK, so let me let me ask you this because you were also
10:07
nominated for James Beard. I think the following year,
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right? And then that was the same year
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that you achieved your first Michelin *.
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No, so right after this Squire 2023, we got finalists for best
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new restaurant James B Foundation.
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That definitely felt a little bit more nerve wracking I guess
10:31
because people were like Oh my God, like 16 seater at that
10:35
point. I can tell you our menu fucking
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sucked. We weren't, that wasn't what it
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is now. We're still very fresh.
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We're on that one year mark trying to figure out making a
10:45
lot of mistakes. I was making a lot of mistakes
10:47
with their ordering, leading the team.
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I think leading the team were was my some of my biggest, not
10:54
regrets, but lessons learned early on.
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What do you mean? I wanted it to be like the
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restaurants that I came up in. Very not hostile, but definitely
11:05
very intense because I, I enjoyed it, but that didn't mean
11:10
that the team that was there enjoyed it.
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They were definitely not there for that.
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So I had to separate my, my beliefs and my experiences to
11:19
what my restaurant needed and was becoming.
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And that's where I go bike once and needs.
11:26
Kitchens are brutal right now, everyone knows it.
11:28
Fewer people on the line, margins tighter than ever, and
11:31
somehow the expectations keep going up.
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There's just no room to miss anymore.
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I was talking to a chef recently who said the biggest stress
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wasn't the volume, it was the mental load.
11:41
Babysitting, food, timing, everything perfectly, trying to
11:44
be everywhere at once. And that's where equipment
11:47
matters more than people want to admit.
11:49
Rationals Technology comes up a lot in those conversations.
11:52
The Icon B Pro, the Ivario Pro overnight roast that don't need
11:56
to be checked, custom programs for all your recipes,
11:59
consistency without hovering completely automated cleaning,
12:03
monitoring everything from your phone, the list goes on.
12:05
And what really buys you the headspace?
12:08
Less standing over pans and more time to leave the kitchen
12:11
instead of constantly putting out tiny fires.
12:13
When you're down to cook, When the prep list is rough, when the
12:17
production ramps up. Think rational.
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Why? Why do you think you enjoyed the
12:20
intense kitchen? Because I did too.
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I like, I enjoy intense kitchen, but I, I also realized that in
12:28
intense kitchens and kitchens were maybe the culture is a
12:33
little bit different. A lot of it has to do with the
12:35
people in those kitchens and you, you adapt a little bit.
12:39
You know, if you have a group of very intense people, you could
12:42
run it that way. But if you have people that are
12:44
not that way, you can't run it that way.
12:45
And I think a good chef understands how to get the best
12:49
out of their team in a healthy way.
12:51
Correct. And that's funny you said that
12:53
because last year someone in my team that's been with me like
12:57
almost three years brought that to my attention was like, hey,
13:01
you're not so intense anymore. And I said the restaurant
13:05
shifts, changes we have, I'm like the coach, right?
13:08
I'm not the star player. You guys are the star players.
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I need to figure out your strengths and your weaknesses.
13:13
And I have to like adjust the styles to ensure that we all
13:16
succeed. So I like you said, I can't be
13:19
intense like I used to because not everybody enjoys that and
13:23
they, no, not everyone can perform well under that
13:26
pressure. So he was like, OK, I kind of
13:28
see that, but I kind of miss the intensity from back then.
13:31
Just because we're not intense doesn't mean we don't have high
13:33
standards. And I told him that and I had to
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learn that the hard way, right? I personally enjoy it because as
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an immigrant, you're forced to understand that you're going to
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be in, in uncomfortable environments, right?
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So whether it was going to a school that where you didn't
13:50
speak in English, that was uncomfortable, right?
13:52
Going to a job and not getting the job because of what, what
13:55
you sounded like or how you look like, that was uncomfortable.
13:58
Playing sports, right? You weren't always getting the
14:01
opportunities to, to either start on a team because of your
14:03
skin color. So those intensities were in my
14:07
DNA very at a, at 9 years of age.
14:10
So being in the kitchen and being told that you can't be
14:13
promoted to a Swiss ship because you're Hispanic, that drove me,
14:17
that that fueled me. I was ready to like.
14:19
Yeah, I'll tell you, I, I don't think I've ever said this on the
14:22
podcast. This is like one of my kitchen
14:26
traumas, kitchen traumas, one of my first jobs.
14:31
And for people that don't know I'm Hispanic, people don't know
14:33
that. And I, I hate to say I was
14:35
probably more Hispanic when I was younger because, you know, I
14:39
was, I was, I was straight out the hood, right?
14:42
I've, I've been a chef now. I've been in corporate
14:44
environments like I've, I've toned down the the hood in me.
14:49
But I remember one of my first jobs, I remember I was so pissed
14:53
because I had just graduated from culinary school.
14:55
I probably had about a year experience under my belt and I
14:58
was working in this fine dining restaurant at the time and
15:03
someone from the CIA had graduated and they were an
15:05
intern. Susha loved to fuck with me and
15:09
he'd come up to me and that's your new boss.
15:11
I'm like, how's he my new boss? Like he's an intern, I've
15:14
graduated even though I didn't go to CIA, but they're like, but
15:17
he's CIA. And we would grind my gear so
15:20
much. And back then, you know, 'cause
15:22
you know, kitchens were different.
15:24
You know, my nickname in the kitchen was a stupido, right?
15:26
Or Feto which is like fetus for people that don't know.
15:29
Yeah, yeah. So, so my nickname in the
15:31
kitchen was Feto, 'cause I was young, so that that meant fetus
15:37
or a stupido. So when I come into the kitchen
15:38
they'd Hi everyone stupidos here, you know, they'd make a
15:41
big deal. You know, it was whatever, but
15:44
I, I'll never forget that my chef came up to me in a fucked
15:46
up way because he knew that this kid coming in as an intern and
15:51
he would say that's going to be your like he would constantly
15:53
fuck with me. Like that's your new boss.
15:55
And he came up to me and he says this is fucked up.
15:58
This might trigger warning for some people.
16:00
Comes up to me and says, you know what we call someone that
16:04
speaks English in the kitchen, Andre and I said, what's that?
16:07
He says we call them Chef. That's.
16:10
And I was like, it was like one of those moments that I was
16:13
like, I boiled over in anger. I wanted to kill the guy.
16:19
I didn't understand. But there was also a part of me
16:22
that understood that I was a guest in this environment that I
16:25
wanted to succeed in. So I couldn't spill over in
16:27
anger. But it was one of these
16:30
emotional scars that has stayed with me forever.
16:32
So I understand what you're talking.
16:33
About yeah, I need that intensity drove me to the next
16:37
job, so yeah. Wow, yeah, it's, it's it's
16:41
tough. And I and I don't think, I
16:44
don't, I don't know if people fully understand what a cook
16:48
chef go through when they come into a kitchen that they, you
16:55
know, they, they think they're walking into Disneyland because
16:57
they're young and they're naive and they don't know what this
16:59
is. And they watch some Food Network
17:01
and they walk in and, and they walk in and they think I'm I'm
17:05
right out of high school, I'm 18 years old, or I'm out of school
17:08
and I'm 20 years old out of culinary school.
17:10
And you walk into kitchen, you think everyone has that same
17:12
mentality. And you realize the line cook
17:14
next to you is 40. Right.
17:16
They don't give a shit about you.
17:19
They've, they've had, you know, 20 years of, of you'll figure it
17:23
out. Yeah.
17:25
And. But I, I enjoy those moments
17:26
because I, when I was in those in those kitchens, I, I must
17:31
have been like 1617. So I idolize the guys that were
17:36
twice my age that were telling me, don't listen to a cookbook
17:43
from Noma, right, because those ingredients don't, don't
17:47
translate in Texas, understand Texas.
17:51
So they definitely, even though they were tough and it was tough
17:54
love and sometimes it sucked and opportunities went there.
17:57
There are very moments, there are pockets of moments that
17:59
you're like looking back now, because I'm now I'm their age
18:02
and I look back, I'm like, wow, like that stuck with me
18:06
throughout the years because if I would have not listened to
18:09
that moment of like, don't do that, That's leave that to that,
18:12
that side. Do do this because this is you,
18:15
this is ours. It's it's our responsibility to
18:18
take ownership of it and, and evolve it and move it forward
18:21
and learn from it and then pass it on.
18:23
I don't think I would have had the career that I have now for
18:26
sure. How did it feel looking?
18:29
Yeah. You're talking about your story,
18:31
immigrant, struggling sometimes with your identity in your own
18:35
skin. And then how did it feel to be
18:39
called up on the stage to receive a Michelin star?
18:43
You know, one of the few restaurants in Houston.
18:45
So who else got a star in Houston?
18:46
You March. Le Jardinian.
18:48
Yeah, 33. Restaurants, Foster and I
18:52
believe a BBQ spot, yeah. So.
18:55
It's like 6 obesian. So how did I mean, like there's
18:59
there's legacy in Houston, so many great chefs, Chris
19:02
Sheppard, so many other greats that are that are there and
19:07
people that have been doing it. And you're going to have some
19:12
haters saying that, you know why you and not me?
19:17
How did it feel when you were called on stage?
19:20
First of all, did you think you were going to get a star?
19:21
Oh. Man, I'm probably going to get
19:24
roasted for this. They my whole idea was operate
19:30
the restaurant at a once like we have a Michelin star before even
19:33
their guide. That's since they won since
19:35
20/21 was open the restaurant with the mentality of we're
19:39
going to get a start. We need a star for in personal
19:42
integrity, right? Take ownership, do it right, do
19:46
right by the team, take your time.
19:48
Taste, taste, taste right. Hospitality.
19:51
That was my that that was a model of the restaurant.
19:54
And that's something that was given to me at a very young age.
19:56
And that's something that I to this day, it's like hospitality
19:59
tastes now, maybe some things are out of place and order, but
20:03
that's the, the root of it all. So I wasn't personally shocked
20:08
when the guide was announced and my restaurant was already
20:12
operating. At that's what you were aiming
20:13
for. Not because I needed to start,
20:15
but for personal integrity, right?
20:17
So I feel like I had a head start before everyone else
20:21
because when the guy was announced, now everyone wants to
20:23
like tighten up and do tasty menus.
20:25
It's been engraved and since I was 20 years old and me so to me
20:30
wasn't strange. So I wasn't surprised by it, but
20:33
it definitely felt a sense of calmness.
20:38
Calmness before the storm for sure.
20:40
I was calm because I was like, OK, I'm not too crazy.
20:43
My format works. But then I was like, tomorrow
20:47
when the repos and the Congrats and the text N and people come
20:52
in comparing us to other institutions, not restaurants,
20:55
institutions to other chefs, it's going to suck a little bit,
21:00
but like everything in life, it's going to pass.
21:02
How did so so put us, put us in that room.
21:07
You're in Houston. They're they're calling people
21:10
out. I mean, what are you, I'm, I'm
21:12
sure you got a bespoke suit. You're dressed up.
21:15
I was dressed down. You were dressed up.
21:17
I was dressed down for sure. Just because you never know.
21:19
You know, you, you got that, the invitation, you got the e-mail.
21:22
You really don't know. Like you're second guessing and
21:24
you're I'm, I remember just keeping keeping my nerves calm,
21:29
saying hi to the people that I knew and just being present in
21:32
the moment. My phone.
21:33
I wasn't taking pictures, I wasn't on social media checking.
21:37
I was legitimately just soaking up the moment for whatever way
21:40
it went. If we didn't get a start, it was
21:41
going to be motivation for us to get a start.
21:43
If we did get a star, I was going to make sure that the team
21:47
understood that that star doesn't make us better than
21:50
anyone, but we have more responsibility than anyone to
21:55
one maintain it and to to just show people what it what it
21:57
means to like be fucking bad ass cooks, right That have a small
22:01
restaurant with one blender with one three door cooler and we
22:06
could be in the same conversation at this multi
22:08
$1,000,000 restaurants, right? Well, because of the core values
22:12
of integrity, hospitality, taste, taste, taste.
22:15
From from a business standpoint, once you received the Michelin
22:18
star, did you see a significant uptick in reservations and.
22:23
For sure. We our restaurant caps at 32,
22:28
32, nine courses. It's a lot.
22:30
It's almost 2270 something plates of food from a little arc
22:34
in my kitchen, smaller than this room.
22:36
We don't have a dish machine. Everything has is washed by
22:38
hands. Everything, everything.
22:39
Plates. Everything, everything,
22:40
everything. We don't have wine glasses,
22:42
everything. Wow.
22:43
We don't have an actual machine. The the gentleman, the two
22:47
gentlemen. Shout out to your team that does
22:49
dishes. The whole team does dishes.
22:51
I do dishes. Everybody has to do dishes.
22:54
We don't. So we don't have a dishwasher,
22:56
right? We call it back court, kind of
22:58
like a sports championship defense with championships,
23:02
right? So if the back court's secure,
23:03
we're going to have a great service, we're going to win
23:05
championships because we're taking care of that area, not
23:09
that person because it's everyone's responsible.
23:11
I don't want the person that washes dishes, the 19 year old
23:14
to be like I'm a dishwasher out of them all.
23:16
He's a team member out of them. All right, His responsibility
23:19
might be to Polish or wash that night, but if he calls off, it's
23:22
going to be someone's responsibility because we don't
23:24
have a machine. So it's once in one dream.
23:28
Well, actual positions it's. It's about 300 plates a night.
23:32
It's a it's a lot. It's.
23:34
My math is right. It's, and that's not including
23:36
the pots pans, right, the yakumi pans, everything that we utilize
23:40
to prep, cook family meal. It's it's hard.
23:44
Wow. So we have 24 team members.
23:47
That's a. That's a lot of stat.
23:48
For a 16 seater. That's a lot of cooks for a
23:51
small kitchen, Yeah. So how do you how do you teach
23:54
them to work efficiently in a tight space?
23:56
You have like certain things that are like rules in the
23:59
kitchen, like for a new cook coming in, then hey, there's a
24:01
tight space. This is how you work.
24:03
We actually how I like to to handle it as someone comes in,
24:07
it's more like a trial. They know that I don't get
24:10
involved as much with with the fresh, not fresh meat, but the
24:15
fresh meat one because they're they're what's well.
24:19
But with my sous chef, with my lead cook, with the guys, I've
24:23
been there for the longest. So if I put in, it's going to
24:26
create, it's going to not it's going to unbalance the scale.
24:29
So my job now, and this is something that I want to talk
24:32
about my transition. How do I transition?
24:35
I teach the people that have been with me the longest how I
24:39
like things, whether it's the label cut, the salt, the oils,
24:43
which bought bottles, the towels, they know me right now.
24:46
They're like a representation of of me.
24:48
If I'm not there, everything should be in its place and they
24:52
know it. I come in and I'm like, that's
24:53
not that doesn't go there. So they're responsible for
24:58
teaching the new guys things like that.
25:00
I'll jump in from time to time. I mean, give advice on, hey, I
25:04
saw you doing this. Let me show you how I do it.
25:07
If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, let's keep
25:09
figuring out what works for best.
25:11
But at the end of the day, you need to show whoever's next to
25:14
you the same respect you're showing me because I'm not here
25:17
during the prep, right? My job is more about ensuring
25:21
that we have seats and people are still coming in and the
25:24
lights, the doors on. We don't have water.
25:26
How, how, how much business training and education did you
25:31
have before you opened the restaurant?
25:34
Training opening restaurants. I've opened hotels, so I've come
25:37
from structure and I worked in country clubs, so I understand
25:40
volume, I understand prep sheets, I understand food costs
25:43
and all that. Training, opening the restaurant
25:47
was probably, it's my first one, solely Megan, my business
25:54
partner, but like solely, solely fully responsible for
25:56
everything. My first one and I had no idea
25:59
what I was doing so it was hard. So I'm assuming the best
26:03
Business School you could attend is the school of doing it.
26:06
For sure. Figuring it out for sure.
26:08
But I grew up in an industry like I've been inside a
26:11
restaurant since I was 10/11. My parents both work in
26:13
restaurants so today they work in restaurants.
26:15
So I understood the insurance and outs and and the back end of
26:20
things. I also like I said, I'm not
26:22
selfish or I understood that there's I don't know everything
26:27
so I like to hire people that are better than me.
26:29
I don't she doesn't like to hire good.
26:32
They like they want to hire good cooks, but they don't want to
26:34
admit or hire people that are better than them.
26:37
I hire people that are better than me.
26:40
For for chefs that don't understand that, which I think
26:42
is super important, I'm I'm I'm a firm believer of what you are.
26:45
I want to surround myself with people that know things that I
26:47
don't know. I'll teach you what I know, but
26:49
I want you to know things that I don't know exactly learn from
26:51
you as well, because when you're in a position of chef, sometimes
26:54
you can't go out and stodge and work in all these other
26:56
restaurants anymore. You're learning is now didactic
26:59
self self. It's self driven.
27:01
So when you hire people, you're, you're hoping that they're
27:04
better than you. And from an example of like
27:06
Chef's like, no, no, I want to be the best one in the kitchen.
27:08
I'll give you a podcast example. I edit the podcast, right?
27:11
If I was going to hire someone to edit my podcast, but I want
27:14
me to be better than them. No, I'd want to hire an editor
27:17
that's better than me to, to make the podcast look better,
27:20
look sharper, you know, have more graphics or whatever.
27:24
Like why would I hire someone that's not as good as me or, or
27:28
why would I be intimidated that they're better?
27:30
It lifts everything else up in the kitchen.
27:32
It doesn't mean that they are going to take my job.
27:34
It doesn't mean that that they're going to outside me.
27:39
It's like, no, no, it's your restaurant, right?
27:42
Why, like you own? It exactly though it doesn't
27:44
make sense. I think that's the key to
27:46
success, right? Hire the people that are better
27:48
than you at the job because you have to evolve.
27:50
You know, I'm 30, I turned 37 this year.
27:53
My body's slowly telling me the 17 hour days are no longer and
27:58
durable like. It really kicked in for me at
28:00
like 39. Yeah.
28:02
At 39, I felt. It's a hard it's it's such a
28:05
brutal industry. Doesn't matter if it's tasty
28:07
menu or 120 seater. It's mentally, emotionally and
28:12
definitely physically toxic relationship.
28:16
Yeah, it's love, hate, right? Yeah, I love it and I hit it.
28:19
What, what were some of the, the things that like some of the
28:22
biggest lessons that you learned when opening the restaurant that
28:26
you could advise someone like, hey, you're going to go down
28:27
this journey. Don't do this or make sure you
28:30
do this. From a financial standpoint is
28:34
understand the needs and wants. Everyone wants to have a fancy
28:38
well equipped kitchen or restaurant, but do you really
28:42
need one? I think that that would be the
28:44
first one. I'll give you an example.
28:46
I spent 10K replacing the floor in the dining room, what we call
28:50
the dining room. Those 10K could have, I could
28:53
have used for something else more probably more equipment or
28:56
better, I don't know, something else in the beginning besides
28:58
the floor. In my mind, I wanted the floor
29:01
to be. But I have an ambition, right?
29:04
I wish somebody and because we don't have financial backing, I
29:08
wish somebody would have said no, right?
29:11
Think it's a lot to spend on floors, floors.
29:13
And four years later I, I contemplated I don't own the
29:17
building. I don't own that floor.
29:19
I gave 10K to a future tenant and I it eats me alive everyday.
29:25
Every time I walk in I'm like God damn it.
29:28
So that's one right? Understand that unless you own
29:33
the building, the property, the whole thing, it's not yours.
29:36
Don't, don't invest the second one we.
29:41
You know how to cook. That's not the problem.
29:43
The problem is getting your team to do what you want when you
29:46
want it. That's leadership.
29:48
My book, Culinary Leadership Fundamentals, breaks down
29:50
exactly how to run a kitchen without losing your mind.
29:52
Stop yelling. Start leading.
29:54
Get the book at Chefs psa.com. Understand the the team
29:58
camaraderie, right? Understand how they basically,
30:05
sometimes they we don't know how the same schooling of Hard
30:11
Knocks, right? If someone yells at me, I'm
30:14
going to thrive because I love it.
30:15
If I get a bad A1 review and I've we've gotten many one
30:18
reviews, I thrive. I come back the next morning and
30:21
next, you know, it's a new menu completely or we bat another
30:24
course because I like things like that.
30:26
That's someone telling me that I suck and I love it.
30:30
But not everybody, not everybody works that way.
30:32
So sometimes you have to have a lot of one on ones.
30:35
Sometimes you have to have make room on your schedule to have
30:37
team meetings and you don't always have to speak.
30:40
Let them speak. You just got to listen.
30:42
I think the best lesson is to hear them out right?
30:47
Like maybe they're not happy, maybe they want to learn
30:49
something else, but they're too afraid to or you're too busy for
30:52
them to like grab your attention and they're they're timid and
30:55
next, you know, like, oh, check, here's my two weeks.
30:56
Oh, because you spent 20 minutes listening to to their needs and
31:00
wants. So I think those are the 2.
31:03
Is there anything that in in the restaurant right now that that
31:07
you if you could go back and do it all over again besides the
31:11
floor if you were starting another restaurant, so version 2
31:14
point O, what would be some of the things that you would start
31:17
out immediately and say, OK, we're going to make sure we do
31:19
this completely different if you had carte blanche.
31:22
It's funny you said that because we're working on something like
31:24
that right now. Can you announce it here?
31:25
No. No, no, not yet.
31:27
Not yet. Yeah, but don't give it to
31:29
Eater. No, I'm not going to give it to
31:30
Eater. That's a great question.
31:37
Definitely would think that investing in more refrigeration.
31:41
It's never have enough, right? You can never have enough
31:43
refrigeration. I didn't think I in my mind 3A3
31:48
door cooler, like yeah, I'll make it happen.
31:49
And as the team evolves, the restroom evolves, the there's
31:53
more needs. There's not enough space to like
31:56
store things. So I think just more
31:58
refrigeration. Your, your menu is, is is
32:01
interesting and your style of food is interesting because
32:04
what's unique to Texas? I would say, obviously it's not
32:06
unique to the world, but it's unique, I would say to Texas,
32:10
especially receiving a Michelin star and then doing tasty menu.
32:14
There's not a lot of restaurants in Texas that do this style of
32:16
cuisine and tasty menu. You know yourself initially, I'm
32:20
trying to think, who else tasting menu, It's probably just
32:25
you too, right? Shout out to the guys that
32:28
initially. But the reason, the reason I
32:29
asked that is when it comes to the creative process, when you
32:33
were starting to go down the tasting menu route and develop
32:38
your own voice and your own style of cooking, where were you
32:41
drawing inspiration from? And then was there ever a
32:44
certain point where that inspiration stopped becoming
32:47
inspiring, and then that inspiration was just coming from
32:51
just only a year? So I'm going to touch into
32:54
things trying to answer the question.
32:57
The only reason we did Tasting Menu is because of our location.
33:00
So we're outside of the city. We're like 10 minutes away from
33:04
the city in a street mall that's basically three businesses in a
33:08
street mall, a donut shop that's only open from 6:00 to 2:00, and
33:12
then a church next to us. Everything.
33:14
I think it's an office, like a works office next to us or next
33:17
to the donut shop that operates from like 9:00 to 5:00.
33:21
There's not a lot of like walk in traffic, so there was no
33:24
inhale. I was going to survive opening
33:27
an Ala carte menu there. It wasn't going to happen.
33:31
The only reason brunch was successful is because instead of
33:34
us doing pop ups going to markets, we said come to us,
33:39
right? We also didn't have a big
33:40
overhead. We had like 2, two team members
33:43
at the time. So we're basically there all day
33:46
by ourselves. I was washing dishes, prepping.
33:48
I was doing the whole thing for like a year by myself.
33:51
So I was able to save a lot of money that way.
33:56
The Tasty menu was basically forced on us.
33:58
Like you not going to the only way to survive is if you it's
34:02
prepaid secure people's money and then you basically force
34:05
them to go visit you, right. Otherwise it wouldn't work.
34:09
From the Tasty menu, their creative side was to in the
34:12
beginning was all vegetables. It was a vegetable forward
34:14
tasting menu and people hated it in Texas.
34:17
Yeah, but my food calls a lot of time super low time, right?
34:21
My main, my what? Made you want to do vegetable
34:24
tasting menu. Labor, you know, I realized that
34:28
I need to start not with my ego, but being smart, you know, and I
34:32
couldn't just new restaurant A5. It was not going to work.
34:37
You know, you have to like slowly build momentum, make sure
34:41
that I get the money back that I spent on the flooring and things
34:44
like that. It's my own money.
34:45
So every cent counts. You like when it's money that
34:47
people give you blow it, not really keeping track of it,
34:51
sure, but when it's yours, yours, like from years of like
34:54
savings, every penny counts. Someone grabs an extra tile and
34:58
you're like, Oh my God, stop. Like stop being so messy, so
35:04
vegetable, tasty menu. Our main course was a smoked
35:07
sweet potato Taco. That was our main course.
35:11
All right, so some people loved it, some people hate it, but I
35:14
didn't care. It was an illegal thing.
35:15
It was a survival thing. Once, like I said, all the
35:19
accolades started coming in, more people started coming into
35:22
the restaurant, Then we're able to kind of shift and that's
35:24
where the inspiration started coming in because I had more
35:27
people with more pedigrees different.
35:30
Coming to work. For you for sure resumes and I'm
35:33
like, OK, what do you want to do?
35:35
Like what's in your mind? What's in your palette?
35:37
And then we start buying something on IDs and then this
35:39
kind of shifts and then I feel like people take ownership.
35:41
It's not, it's not my menu even now.
35:43
The menu that we have now, I think the only thing that's
35:45
hasn't changed is quesadilla since day one.
35:49
And that's something that like maybe just reminds me of home.
35:52
Everything else has kind of changed from ideas bouncing by
35:54
talking to the team so. So you have a very collaborative
35:57
menu. When it's 700 square feet, you
35:59
have to collaborate with people because you also have to be
36:02
mindful that if I want to do something and they can't execute
36:05
it, it's not going to be. How do you how do you determine
36:08
when a when a menu item is not a good fit for the menu?
36:12
When? From your team, not not from
36:14
your ideas, but let's just say it, a team member, sous chef or
36:17
or cook is coming to and say, hey, what do you think of this
36:19
as they're presenting it to you? How do you determine if it's?
36:21
It's just that's not going to work.
36:23
It has to go to the three stages, first stage sourcing,
36:26
second stage story because again, sourcing something for I
36:30
don't know, 100 people a week, It's not easy, especially
36:33
proteins, right? Not a lot of people want to make
36:35
that drive to like or make that commitment to you.
36:38
Let me rephrase that. After the star that hold that
36:41
change, but before the start, it was like you need to get at
36:45
least half a case of something and I can't just break the case
36:48
because you need 11 item storing when we have a three door
36:52
cooler. So it has to make sense with our
36:54
storing. And the final one, would we call
36:57
them sequences has to make sense with it the sequence.
37:00
So for us, a sequence is because it's such a tight space, you can
37:05
just move kind of like scramble. We have a procedure of like when
37:11
guest comes in, the kitchen's already understanding the
37:14
movements. It's like a valet.
37:16
It's very organized and you can tell when you're done with us
37:18
and you sit at the counter that we're having a bad service
37:21
because it's very chaotic. People are not synchronized.
37:24
We're synchronized. I can honestly say, and I've
37:27
been at at least like 82 stars. We had a two star level.
37:31
When we are synchronized, it's not often, but I can, I can see
37:35
it, I can smell it, I can see it.
37:37
I don't hear it when I don't hear anything like not one pot
37:40
being like put down overly hard because you're scrambling to
37:46
grab something else. I know we have a two star
37:48
service on the front of the house.
37:50
Team members are coming in and like sorry, doing swiney like
37:56
sequences of like the silverware, cleaning it up.
37:59
They're having fun and they're having fun.
38:02
I'm having fun and that's when we're like, OK, if all those
38:07
three things click the dishes perhaps for.
38:09
The menu you said something that I haven't really thought about
38:12
in quite some time because I haven't been in a kitchen in a
38:13
while, but like the the noise of the pot on the on the on the
38:17
stainless. I hate it.
38:18
I I every kitchen where I go like should have trivets.
38:22
Nothing hot goes on. Nothing hot goes on the counter.
38:24
Have a trivet like. No, we haven't.
38:26
Yeah, we have them, yeah. Something but if you if you
38:28
don't have a towel, if you don't have a trivet, use a towel or
38:30
whatever. Because I hate the when when
38:33
you're in the flow, nothing drives me crazier than banging
38:35
pots and slamming, slamming ice machines or doors.
38:39
That would drive me crazy. But I haven't thought about that
38:42
in quite some time. But yeah, you know, you're in
38:45
this flow state when everything is like like this ballet and
38:49
everything just going it's clicking.
38:51
So when it comes to tasting menus, because I have a lot of
38:55
thoughts on tasting menus, I don't want to get into them, but
38:58
when it comes to tasting menus and you're structuring it
39:01
because you're doing Mexican style food, what like a
39:08
traditional tasting menu is going to start, you know, maybe
39:10
some, some bites are used at the beginning.
39:11
And then you might go into a raw fish dish and you're going to
39:15
progress in, in, in intensity and flavor and and spice.
39:20
You're ramping up because you don't want to kill the palate
39:21
early on. Then you're going to have
39:23
usually a cold seafood, a hot seafood, you know, meat #1 meat
39:29
#2 desserts, dessert, one dessert, 2 ER DS at the end.
39:36
And I'm probably forgetting a couple of things in here as I'm,
39:39
you know, going off the top of my head structure in a tasting
39:40
menu, depending on how many courses.
39:42
But for you, what is the, the format like?
39:45
What's the playbook for a tasty menu in your restaurant for your
39:49
style? Like you said, it has to start
39:51
cold, it has to have balances of acid and spice.
39:56
Right at the beginning. Yeah, it's Mexican food, right?
39:58
So we get to play with those things.
40:00
You go to a taqueria and you're like, oh, can I get a fish Taco?
40:03
No, it's like, can I get a Taco? And then you're going to citrus.
40:07
That's in my mind. It's a form of acid because it
40:10
just salivates your mouth. Not from spice level, but it
40:13
just salivates your mouth. And you have satsas, right?
40:16
You don't really think about it. And it's also greasy and messy.
40:19
So we have a little bit of luxury to be like, eat it with
40:23
your hands. Right.
40:24
And then people will complain like, oh, it's a, it's a tasty
40:27
menu. It shouldn't be.
40:28
When you go eat nigeries, you eat it with your hands. 9 out of
40:32
10, you're going to eat it with your hands, right?
40:34
So we have the luxury to, yeah, be a Mexican tasty menu.
40:38
So we get to play with bold flavors.
40:41
We're also in Texas. So people we have, we have to
40:44
listen to what people want. People want bold flavors, right?
40:47
They want heavy items, even if it's small, small pieces of it.
40:52
They want that, OK, I'm getting my money, my values, my values
40:55
worth. And then the other one is like,
40:57
I like to compare it a lot with Japanese cuisine.
40:59
And I know a lot of shows do do it, but for me it's more about
41:02
the mentality or like educating the guest.
41:05
When you go to a kind of sushi counter, you get a negative
41:08
piece for 19 bucks, right? You don't ask for another one,
41:12
you're going to pay for another one.
41:14
That's kind of the same thing with tasty menu, especially in
41:16
Texas, right? People are not educated enough
41:18
because we don't have enough. So they're hit and miss.
41:22
People are going to come in and be like, I don't know what I'm
41:24
getting myself into, but I'm excited.
41:26
And they either hate it or love it.
41:28
And then you have the the other half that's going to come in and
41:32
they're going to start critiquing it and like, oh, it's
41:34
not like, oh, it's not like, oh, it's not like such such in San
41:37
Francisco or New York. I'm like, no shit.
41:40
Those are institutions. 20 years plus.
41:42
We're going on five years. Look around, look around, right?
41:45
It's a small restaurant. Was it good?
41:49
Yeah, it was good. But it's it doesn't stand up to
41:51
to those other establishments. You don't have a wine list and
41:54
and whatnot and all that's fair. And then you have like the
41:58
people that has kept have kept us alive that come in and don't
42:01
know tasty menus and don't know all the restaurants, but they
42:04
enjoy what we're doing. And to them is unique.
42:07
It's fresh, it's new and it's modern.
42:09
And then you get it and they fucking love it.
42:11
And they keep coming back and they tell their friends and they
42:13
post and next you know that we're doing events.
42:16
And I feel like all all those 3 genres are are fair game, right?
42:23
So, so going back to your, yours is 9 course correct, Correct.
42:27
So what, what is what? How do you start out?
42:28
What's courses like? What are?
42:30
What are the 9? Course one's going to be a
42:32
tostada. Is it always a tostada?
42:35
No, it's been a ceviche in the past, so it's small bite.
42:39
It's a small bite. It's like 30 grams of 15 grams
42:41
of seafood and like 30 grams of masa.
42:43
So it's pretty nice started it's very delicate nice.
42:47
We've spent a lot of lot of time doing them.
42:49
That's going to be the first course.
42:51
Then you have a a tracoyo sope, which is something more heavy
42:54
with beans, raises cheese. Then you have a quesadilla
42:58
that's fried and then you have a vegetable course.
43:01
We're now it's a chili tole with coconut froth and masa vigne.
43:05
That's all vegetables. So it's a little more starts to
43:08
like tone down a little bit and then you have the right now and
43:11
then Molada with duck two ways, which is your first protein and
43:16
then you will go straight to. The what are the two ways on
43:18
the? Duck.
43:18
Right now we do a carnita style that's kind of like roulade, and
43:21
then we season that with green olives and a lot of citrus.
43:25
It sounds scary. It's.
43:26
Yeah, delicious. It's really, really like you eat
43:29
it and you can't stop. This.
43:30
I'm hungry by the way. Like it's lunch time as your
43:32
tongue. Since then, I just roll into
43:33
town. I'm like ready to go to eat.
43:34
Shout out to Nix that because we're coming through right now.
43:37
And then we do the breast itself that gets cooked down with a
43:41
satire spice 'cause we're featuring a mole from Cueva and
43:44
there's a lot of Lebanese population in Puebla, so we're
43:47
allowed to you to tell those stories through this dish.
43:50
And then that gets a little bit of a roasted pineapple juice
43:54
that gets seasoned with Mexican egg.
43:56
So we call it Mexican Exo, which is like Chicatanas, anything
43:59
that's dry basically. People don't know what are
44:01
chikatanas. Chikatanas are wahakan ants
44:04
rather. They're short, which are
44:05
delicious. They're salt crunching and high
44:07
nutrient and amazing. And the flavor of those ants for
44:11
people that have never had them because you think, oh, I'm not
44:14
eating ants. Like trust me, it's like a
44:15
flavor you've never had. It's so worth it.
44:17
Yeah, right. So worth it.
44:18
So we use all the dragon umami things that we can utilize and
44:22
make our own cheese. That you get that ions to make
44:24
the Mexican exo, yeah, that's that's a good idea, yeah.
44:27
Yeah, so same thing, right? Umami has to be rich.
44:30
Anybody also has to make sense. So we you can be inspired, but
44:34
we have to utilize our ingredients.
44:36
And then that you get just brushed on the duck and it's
44:38
like sweet, spicy, tangy. And you're like, it's like
44:41
getting like a perfect student sour chicken.
44:44
Yeah, but you don't know why. And you're like, oh, shit.
44:46
And then when the team members feels the oh, we make a
44:49
Chicatana with others and people are like, it's just like sweet
44:52
and sour chicken. But I'm OK with that.
44:53
You know, not everything has to be avant-garde or I'm not.
44:57
No one's going to reinvent the wheel.
44:59
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel.
45:00
I'm just trying to make things that are delicious make sense.
45:02
Yeah. And get people paid.
45:04
Right. Yeah.
45:05
And then you have a carne asada utilizing A5 and that's the
45:10
tortilla course when we talk about a little bit about the
45:13
history of the of the restaurant.
45:14
And then we go to our Bay Post today.
45:17
We're about to add another post today.
45:18
And then the mayor, Dees. To go, Yeah.
45:21
To go. No, we have them there.
45:23
Oh, OK, OK. Yeah, I need to.
45:24
I haven't. I haven't.
45:25
No, please. I need to come.
45:28
I don't. I don't get down to Houston
45:29
enough. But I have a reason now.
45:31
I mean, I have a lot of reasons, but I want to.
45:34
I'm hungry, like you're talking. I was like, I want to eat this
45:36
right now. What is what is exciting you
45:41
right now in culinary doesn't necessarily have to be your
45:44
restaurant like what are you looking at right now to get
45:46
inspiration that out there in the in the world that is and I
45:50
really like because they're doing.
45:52
Over here, I'm going to use you as an example.
45:57
I love how the generation that I saw from afar and I, I call them
46:02
the old hits and, and, and I'm sure you have it because I've
46:05
seen it. I've seen you wear it.
46:07
When I started cooking, you had two aprons.
46:10
You had the black one with The White Stripes, and then you had
46:13
the blue one with the thin color.
46:15
If you had the blue one, you're your friend.
46:18
You're Thomas Keller in my book, right?
46:19
Because not a lot of cooks had the blue ones.
46:21
That means that you worked in some kitchens that were.
46:23
Like the blue Brigard. Yeah, yeah.
46:25
And by the way, that blue Brigard, for people that don't
46:27
know, there's two of them. The people that know, know.
46:30
There's the one with the pocket in the front.
46:32
I never seen those. That one's not as good.
46:34
You got to get the one without the pocket.
46:37
I work with people who have the blue ones, so I've always wanted
46:40
a blue one, but I never that was before my time, right?
46:42
So I that's how I difference. Like, OK, you've been in some
46:46
kitchens, like, you know, shit, the blue apron a little bit
46:49
before the tweezers booming, right, The transition that you
46:55
guys are making, right? Like it's like sports, like you
46:59
play it at the high level for so long.
47:01
Something else has What's the plan after within the space?
47:06
How do you continue to evolve in this space?
47:08
You don't have to, because you can't beat Father Time, right?
47:11
It's no, you can't. And it's funny that you're,
47:15
you're saying this because I, I think for people that don't
47:19
know, and I'll say this, my opinions about food today are
47:23
not the same opinions I had five years ago.
47:25
They should. And the way I would cook today.
47:28
I want to ask you this because I'll, I'll tell you what I'm
47:30
thinking and then I'm going to ask you your opinion on this.
47:33
What excites me about food today is not what excited me five
47:36
years ago. And the way I would run a
47:38
Business Today is not the same way I would do it five years
47:40
ago. And I've written books on
47:41
leadership and the way I lead a kitchen is not even necessarily
47:45
today 100% the way I wrote in my leadership books because I, I
47:49
evolved. And I think, you know, the chef
47:51
that I was when I was 28 or 38 or 35 or, or, or 40 is not who I
47:57
am today. And I've, I've learned a lot
47:59
from it. And the reason I bring this up
48:04
is because when you're in the game, sometimes it's you're in
48:07
the game, but when you pull back from the game, you see the game
48:10
from from different angles. From a business standpoint, you
48:14
see it from a, from a human resources standpoint, you see it
48:17
from why was I so mad about that standpoint?
48:19
Like why did I get so mad they fucked up the chives that day?
48:22
Like why did I like, does it really matter?
48:24
Did anyone notice besides me? So a lot of things start to make
48:28
sense. And so my question for you based
48:31
on my little rant here is when because you open as a brunch
48:37
restaurant and the food that you're doing now, now put aside
48:41
the business and like not, not from a business standpoint and
48:46
not from a creativity standpoint either.
48:48
Because I understand that doing the tasty menu, you're going to
48:50
be able to come up with more creative things.
48:53
But just from a joy of cooking standpoint, like you enjoy
48:57
cooking, Which one brings you more joy Cooking like brunch
49:03
food. I'm just using brunch food as
49:05
the example. Or cooking high end.
49:07
Like when you're in the kitchen and you're cooking for the pure
49:09
love of cooking for you and people that you love, How do you
49:12
cook? How I cook.
49:15
OK, I love both. Yeah, I adore both.
49:18
They both can coexist because at the same time, it doesn't have
49:22
to look pretty, but same ingredients and same attention
49:25
to detail and the same respect for it, right?
49:27
So it's a craft, right? I don't expect you can't expect
49:31
me to go home and and give the intensity just shooting hoops
49:35
with my friends at the YMCA as you would do at Game 7 on the
49:39
finals, right? Sure, that's but you love the
49:42
game of basketball, right? Because you, you out there,
49:43
clearly you out there because you love it.
49:45
And like I said earlier, the individuals that love brunch
49:49
respected and understand it and they thrive in that environment
49:52
because they know it's not about them are going to go far because
49:57
it's not brunch is not about you.
49:59
It's not what you want. It's what people want to eat.
50:02
Right. And then the other one, yeah,
50:05
like that's what you're getting ready for.
50:06
Like 1 could be practice a warm up.
50:09
The other one's like the end game, but you have to love both.
50:12
There's not different highs, right?
50:13
Yeah, different intensities, different mentalities, but the
50:16
love for the game is the same. I'll give you a great example.
50:19
Yeah, that's a by the way, that's a good example because
50:21
you you could say the winning of Game 7 is amazing, but playing
50:27
with your best friends is also a once in a lifetime.
50:29
It's the it's one of the best. They're both amazing.
50:31
Yeah, you can find you in both of them and I will give you a
50:33
great example. I have a, a young lady right now
50:35
on our team, super talented, extremely talented, and she's
50:39
always like, she's been with us almost two years.
50:40
She's like, chef, let me pick your brain, like I want to open
50:44
my own thing. And she's all over the place.
50:45
And she's probably the best person on on our beaches on that
50:49
I've ever had because she they're spot on.
50:51
Like she's very posed and things and she's on the older side and
50:56
she's like, I think I'm ready. I think I'm ready.
50:57
And I and every time we get somebody in the in the dining
51:01
room asking for a well done A5, whatever it is well done, she
51:04
makes this, can't believe it. And like it's like the worst
51:09
thing for her. And I'm like, I don't want to
51:11
call her by name. I'm like, hey, at some point
51:16
when it's your place, you'll understand like it is OK, that
51:19
person was well done, right? It's not about you.
51:23
It's never going to be about you, the woman.
51:25
You realize that and you make peace with that.
51:28
You're ready. Until then, you're not ready to
51:30
open a restaurant because it's not about you.
51:32
Yeah, yeah, I, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a hard lesson to
51:36
learn when the guest comes in and, you know, they want that
51:39
well done steak or, you know, they they can I get, you know,
51:42
can I get a sliced chicken breast on top of the.
51:43
Pasta, whatever you want, as long as you enjoy your night
51:46
with. Us.
51:47
Yeah. Who might it tell you what what
51:48
you you should like? Obviously within our.
51:51
It's not the main. Right.
51:52
Yeah, within our reach. Like don't come in and ask for
51:54
something that we don't have or can't provide.
51:57
We're, you know, there's a lot of talk right now and kitchens
52:02
online, whatever the industry is, a lot of people think the
52:06
industry is broken. I don't necessarily think so.
52:08
I just think we complain, yeah, a lot about things that don't
52:12
really affect us. It's fun to smoke a cigarette
52:15
outside and complain about the world.
52:17
You know, it's like it's not really affecting what we're
52:19
doing day-to-day. But with that being said, is
52:23
there, when you look at the culinary industry right now and
52:29
the direction that it's going, is there anything that excites
52:32
you and is there anything that frightens you as we move
52:34
forward? I think definitely the, what
52:37
excites me is the accessibility to knowledge that it's a lot
52:43
easier to open things up and, and learn from things without
52:46
having to travel. But that also frightens me a
52:48
little bit because you take that emotion and that human
52:52
connection and experience. So that's a little scary to
52:54
think about to be able to say, and I use myself as an example.
52:59
I haven't gone to I don't go to Mexico as much as people think
53:01
or want me to go just because I'm Mexican and I have a Mexican
53:04
taste in many restaurant. People are constantly like, oh,
53:06
have you been here? Like I didn't have the needs to
53:08
travel when I was younger. I didn't have the papers to
53:10
travel. So and I was able to do
53:14
something without traveling as much, right, memory and things
53:20
of that nature. But nowadays people cannot
53:23
travel at all and, and say that, Hey, this is Asian inspired, but
53:27
I've never been to Asia. So that frightens me a little
53:29
bit because I feel like monkey see, monkey do.
53:33
It's just going to replicate, right.
53:34
And then next thing you know, like we're not going to take the
53:37
time to to understand the craft and the ingredients and the
53:40
culture. Also, what frightens me is how
53:46
and the amount of people that have opinions on our industry
53:50
that never worked on the industry can be a little bit
53:56
scary as an owner, right? A critic can come in and be
54:00
like, this is the best restaurant without or the worst
54:04
restaurant. Let's just say the worst for the
54:06
sake of the conversation, without ever, ever understanding
54:09
what a bad day is or a bad week or someone walking off or
54:12
someone stealing or someone being sick or something not
54:14
coming in on time, right? But because I have a platform
54:18
and and and a pedigree, it's just kind of just the struggle
54:23
shakes things up, can be scary, yeah.
54:26
I agree with you and I think it's a it's a slippery slope
54:29
when I see content creators or influencers out there that their
54:32
sole objective is to hurt people.
54:34
Yeah, I can't respect that at all.
54:36
For people that don't know, I have a rule on the podcast, it's
54:40
I don't do gossip. I don't, I don't talk badly
54:43
about other chefs and I don't allow people to come on my show
54:45
and use it as a platform to to speak badly about other chefs
54:49
because I feel like that doesn't provide any solutions.
54:54
And we need to be solutions based, solutions oriented and
54:57
and working on what's going to improve this industry, what's
55:01
going to help you become a better chef or help you become a
55:03
better cook. And anyone that I think goes
55:07
into an operation and celebrates someone else's demise, I've had
55:12
the opportunity to be on both ends.
55:13
I've had the opportunity to be successful and I've had the
55:15
opportunity to be a complete failure and and you know, hit
55:18
rock bottom. I've been on both.
55:20
And what's amazing is when you are on rock bottom, everyone
55:25
loves to kick you when you're down.
55:27
And I and I and I, and then when you come back up, everyone loves
55:30
to be your friend again. And it's like, why are we like
55:33
that as human beings? Like, what do you think is the
55:37
the greater good to stone them in the in the public square
55:43
while they're, you know, while their life is crumbling so you
55:45
can feel better about yourself or to step up and say, hey, you
55:49
know, what are you doing? All right, can I help you out?
55:52
Can I help? Can I help lift you up from this
55:53
rock bottom? But unfortunately people say no,
55:56
no, stone them in the public square.
55:57
Like you said, I think it's just a mentality that we have.
56:00
You see monkey? Do yeah, it's a lot easier to to
56:02
knock someone out than to help someone up, yeah.
56:06
Yeah, yeah. And, and I think that's mostly
56:08
because people just want to feel better about themselves and
56:09
their situation. I yeah, I mean, I've never been
56:12
one to gravitate toward towards someone.
56:17
It's not that I don't care about people.
56:19
Obviously I care. But I, I have boundaries within
56:22
myself, right? I have 20 something individuals
56:26
that require my full attention, not including my friends and
56:30
family. So I need to make sure that I
56:31
take care of take care of mine. And then that's basically where
56:35
I stand. Like, I can't, I can't Knee can
56:37
pick about other places, other restaurants, because mine's not
56:40
perfect. No, no, and and no one is and
56:42
everyone everyone has skeletons in their closet and things that
56:46
they wish they could do over and you know, I have AI would say to
56:50
people have a little compassion, like one day you might be the
56:54
one that. For sure you will be.
56:55
It's a circle life. Yeah, eventually they'll will be
56:58
knocking on your door too, right.
57:01
Difficulty eventually comes for everybody in life.
57:03
Anyway that I'll I'll leave it at that, but I want to ask you a
57:06
couple of wrap up questions as as we come to a close in your
57:10
kitchen, what is the salt? What is the the salt standard
57:14
for all-purpose? Not not finishing SO, but just
57:16
for all-purpose cooking? The kosher one, the Diamond 1
57:19
Diamond. Crispy, yeah.
57:21
And then what do you use for finishing?
57:24
Right now we're playing with a few salts.
57:25
There's some from Colima, they're coming in from Mexico.
57:27
They're really, really like high end, but I don't feel like the
57:31
Houston palace ready for them. They're a little too coarse.
57:34
OK. It's like almost, it's almost
57:35
like sea borderline. It's sea salt, sea salt.
57:37
But you know, when sea salt hates you for the first time and
57:40
you were like, this is unedible. Yeah, yeah.
57:42
Kind of like that. So I think we're going to just
57:44
kind of creep it into people here and there.
57:47
And do you have a a finishing acid go to that you typically
57:51
use? Yes.
57:52
Key Lime, Key Lime, Key Lime. It's the.
57:54
Little, the little. One yeah, it's I just it's funny
57:57
because we are so used to lemon, lemon, lemon, but the Key Lime
58:01
like it's like the best merrier of like lemon and lime.
58:05
It's like as sweet. It's high, high in acid, but a
58:08
little undertones of sweetness at the end.
58:10
It's a perfect balance for sure. And is there something that you
58:13
do in your kitchen that people could say, hey, look, start
58:16
doing this and you'll be able to get a lot more flavour or just
58:19
be more efficient? Taste, taste as you go.
58:23
I tell them all the time, just because we have a recipe doesn't
58:26
mean that things are going to taste the same.
58:27
The product is not the same, you know?
58:30
So we gotta adjust. Are you a green tape person?
58:33
Blue tape. How green?
58:34
OH, man, I love this question. Green tape all the way.
58:36
Green tape. Green tape all the way.
58:37
Yeah. Team green tape.
58:39
That's level because there's levels.
58:41
I don't. I don't like to brag.
58:42
When you come into my space and you see the green tape, you'll
58:46
know that I'm building professionals.
58:48
Into the world, Yeah, Team green tape for sure.
58:53
Last question, chef, if you have a a Mount Rushmore of chefs, 4
58:57
people that should be on Mount Rushmore to you Who?
59:00
Who should those 4 chefs be? Who?
59:02
Are we talking about national? Anyone.
59:04
Anyone. Anyone living dead.
59:06
Oh man, here. Abroad doesn't matter 4 chefs
59:09
that that you you feel are the greatest to you.
59:13
We're going to go with Bao Cantu in California at one.
59:17
Yeah. He's he's opening a spot here.
59:18
Yeah. Yeah.
59:19
You're in Austin. Yeah.
59:20
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. He's been a massive inspiration
59:24
in my career. I was luckily enough to dine at
59:26
the first one and then at the large space.
59:28
We've kept in contact throughout my career.
59:30
He actually tipped me. I don't know if I should say
59:32
that. He he gave me advice when when
59:35
the guy was announced, for sure. Then Olvera and Regola in Mexico
59:40
for sure, just because a pioneer, right?
59:43
You got to give the guy credits for sure.
59:45
Shepherd out there, just because I'm a firm believer that none of
59:50
us in Houston, and I do mean none of us in Houston will be
59:53
where we at without him. He broke.
59:56
Barriers shout out to. Christian yeah shout out and
59:58
Southern smokes too, especially now like another one hot
1:00:01
transition away from when it's time and I I love that and for
1:00:05
that he has to be up there. Justin, you for sure.
1:00:10
For me personally, just. He was able to he was ahead of
1:00:14
his time. You know the tasty menu,
1:00:16
vegetarian tasty menu in 2012 in Houston, unheard of, right?
1:00:22
Changed the game and he was also able to transition into
1:00:24
multiple. He's now a business owner has
1:00:26
bars late concepts James B Winter.
1:00:30
I'm sure he's going to. He's going for a Michelin star.
1:00:32
Like you can tell, like he has a little.
1:00:34
Chip, he's a, he's a, he's a bad motherfucker.
1:00:36
Yeah, he's super talented. He's done it all.
1:00:38
Yeah. I feel like once you cook at
1:00:40
Meadowood, back when Meadowood was around, if you got invited
1:00:43
to the 12 years of Christmas, yeah, that solidified you.
1:00:46
That's one of the greatest ever. You got invited.
1:00:49
That's. Smart, That was very smart, what
1:00:51
they were doing at Meadowood during that time, bringing in
1:00:53
the talent. Before the talent flourished.
1:00:55
Yeah. John Shields was there.
1:00:57
Yeah, it's, but again, not a lot of people nowadays know that
1:01:00
because they don't do their history and research.
1:01:02
And I'm a student of the game. I I thrive on little pockets of
1:01:06
history like that. Yeah, I am too.
1:01:08
I love, I love. I love it.
1:01:10
Chef, this was great. Where can people find you if
1:01:13
they want to eat your food, if they want to follow you on
1:01:14
social media? Social media go by dishwasher 89
1:01:18
and then Houston, TX at the demo we'll.
1:01:21
Have to. We'll have to bring you back.
1:01:22
Please do. Thank you.
1:01:24
All right, that's the show. If you liked it, make sure you
1:01:26
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