Latest / Finding God at Work / 18: Discerning Character Change

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18: Discerning Character Change · Finding God at Work

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(Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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This is Finding God at Work.
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Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
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isn't just a podcast, it's also an online
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course.
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Check it out at findinggodatwork.org.
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Our current series is A Mysterious Business, bringing
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ministry and marketplace wisdom together.
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Take a moment and think about the best
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coworker you ever had.
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What made them so great?
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What was it like to work with them?
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If you could describe them in two or
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three adjectives, what words would you use?
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Think about the specific words.
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Okay, now, less fun.
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What about the worst coworker you ever had?
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What was it like to work with them?
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If you could describe them in two or
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three adjectives, what would those words be?
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Okay, now, I'm curious, and this is not
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meant to be a gotcha moment.
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There's lots of different words that are wonderful
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to use in an exercise like this, but
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I'm curious if maybe any of the words
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you used were character words.
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Like for your wonderful coworker, did you maybe
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use words like kind, or courageous, or honest,
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or gentle, or diligent?
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And for your not-so-great coworker, did
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you maybe use adjectives like slothful, or cruel,
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or proud?
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You know?
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Ugh.
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Now, my hunch is that it was easier
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to come up with the nice, generous, celebratory
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adjectives than it was to come up with
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the critical adjectives describing somebody who, you know,
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really wasn't that great to work with.
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And I'd be literally curious to hear what
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words came to mind for you, but I
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bring this up because over time in Western
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culture, we have lost the ability to describe
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other people's character.
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And sometimes we're still able to do it
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in positive ways, like we can use words
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like kind, or courageous, or gentle, but very
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rarely are we willing to use negative words
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to describe other people's character.
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The term, like slothful, for example, is basically
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never used.
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Sometimes the word lazy is used, but often
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unfairly, right?
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Like sometimes someone's falsely accused of being lazy,
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but in terms of like a genuine discernment
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of like, no, this person really is not
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putting their effort into it.
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They're being slothful.
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How rare is it for a word like
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that to even be used in our vocabulary
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anywhere in life, not to mention the workplace?
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I want to give an example of how
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this used to be different, even in our
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Western culture.
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So back in 1778, Saunders's newsletter, Saturday, November
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14th, there was a help wanted ad.
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Cook and housekeeper wanted.
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A person to act as cook and housekeeper
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who must understand cookery in all its branches
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extremely well, none but a Protestant who has
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lived in good families and can produce proper
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discharges will be treated with apply it.
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Number 16 Park Street.
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OK, so you can see this is using
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a couple of shortcuts to discern somebody's character.
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There's a religious requirement that they're Protestant, right?
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There's a question of where they've lived before.
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Somebody that has lived in good families.
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OK, so somebody is using kind of like
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shortcuts here to try and discern someone's character.
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But if you go further and read other
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entries, how about Saunders's newsletter from earlier that
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year, 19 March 1778?
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Cook wanted.
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Wanted by a gentleman who resides in the
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country, a person capable to serve as cook
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and housekeeper who must perfectly understand the making
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of bread and raising paste and may be
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well recommended for sobriety, diligence and honesty.
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Any person so qualified may hear of a
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place applying to the printer hereof.
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OK, so this person, rather than using shortcuts
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like saying, oh, well, they need to be
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a Protestant or they need to have, you
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know, stayed with good families, right?
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This person says, can they be recommended for
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sobriety, diligence and honesty?
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This person is trying to use a kind
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of screening of character in their help wanted
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ad.
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Now, how do you actually discern that character
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is the question, and that is the million
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dollar question, because when we lose the language
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of character, we also lose our capacity to
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discern character, to be able to distinguish, oh,
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this is this and this is that, right?
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Did you ever maybe do like a leaf
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collection project?
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This is something that happens in the Midwest
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because the leaves all fall in the fall,
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right?
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So we had a leaf collection project where
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we learned to recognize like, oh, a leaf
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that's shaped like this is an oak leaf
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and a leaf that's shaped like this is
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a maple leaf.
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And because you have the language of this
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is an oak versus this is a maple,
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you now can distinguish between them based on
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their shape.
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If we don't have the language of character,
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we aren't able to clearly discern and separate
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good character from bad character.
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OK, so this is a problem I would
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hasten to add in the workplace, because if
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we can't distinguish between good character and bad
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character, then we end up hiring people of
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bad character.
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We end up promoting people of bad character.
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Our leaders end up being people of bad
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character, and then we suffer the consequences of
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that bad character all over the place.
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And I think this is evident.
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Just read the news about how different business
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leaders, political leaders, even religious leaders are acting.
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We seem to have a problem in our
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society with discerning character and only selecting and
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promoting people who have the right character for
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the responsibilities they're going to undertake.
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OK, so remember a couple episodes ago, I
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talked about this professor named James Brian Smith,
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and he said that every church should have
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a sign outside that says, we know stuff
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because we tend to think of the academy
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as the source of knowledge and then the
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church is this place of faith, which is
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more ephemeral.
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But really, there's no contradiction between faith and
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knowledge and and the knowledge that we have
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through the revelation of God and Jesus Christ
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is vital knowledge, important knowledge that's relevant for
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all spheres of life, including work.
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Well, one of the things that we know
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as people who follow Jesus, as people who
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are students of the scripture and the tradition
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of the church, is we know that character
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can be discerned.
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And we know that character can change.
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And both these things are kind of discoveries
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at this point.
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The idea that you could actually discern someone's
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character or that somebody's character could change.
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That's actually news to a lot of people.
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It's it's not actually news.
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It's old, but it's been forgotten.
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And so we as disciples of Jesus, we
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need to be the ones who are bringing
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this knowledge into our workplaces in as much
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as we influence who gets hired or how
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we evaluate people on an ongoing basis.
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Are we bringing the truth that it's possible
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to discern people's character into our workplaces and
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are we bringing the truth that it's possible
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for character to change?
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Okay, so I want to go to scripture
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and kind of look at the scriptures that
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actually teach that character can be discerned and
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untangle some of the kind of thorny questions
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that might come up there.
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And then I want to look at just
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a couple of really practical ways that this
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could be applied in the workplace.
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Okay, so first, what do we mean by
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character?
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Well, there's lots of different metaphors in the
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Bible that are used to describe kind of
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our hidden interior life.
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But one that Jesus uses the most often
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is this metaphor of fruit.
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And we've read this passage before, but I
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just want to focus on a specific verse
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in it.
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So this is from Matthew chapter seven.
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And Jesus says, starting in verse 15, watch
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out for false prophets.
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They come to you in sheep's clothing.
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But inwardly, they are ferocious wolves.
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By their fruit, you will recognize them.
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Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or
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figs from thistles?
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Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but
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a bad tree bears bad fruit.
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Then he goes on and reiterates in verse
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20, thus by their fruit, you will recognize
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them.
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So he says this twice, by their fruit,
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you will recognize them.
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Jesus says there's this aspect of the human
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person called fruit, and you can take a
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look at it and figure out what the
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person is like.
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Just like if you go to a thorn
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bush, you will find thorns.
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You go to a grapevine and you will
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find grapes.
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If you find a grape on a vine,
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that is enough evidence to say this is
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a grapevine.
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You don't have to look any further to
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find out if it's some different kind of
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vine.
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If it's got grapes, it's a grapevine.
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Similarly, if you find the maple leaf on
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a tree, it's a maple tree.
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If you find an oak leaf on the
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tree, it's an oak tree.
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This is how we discern what biological life
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is like as we look at the fruit.
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We look at what grows from it.
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So what is fruit?
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Well, this is where it gets a little
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tricky because this metaphor fruit is used a
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couple different ways in scripture.
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One is to describe the interior quality of
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a person's life.
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So we think about Galatians 5 where Paul
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says the fruit of the spirit is love,
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joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self
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-control.
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Okay, but it is also used to describe
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actions.
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So if the kind of interior quality of
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your life is you're a gentle person, how
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is that discerned?
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Well, it's because when you interact with other
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people, you interact in a gentle way.
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And so in Colossians, Paul uses this phrase
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bearing fruit, but he says, and this is
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in Colossians 1 verse 10, so that you
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may live a life worthy of the Lord
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and please him in every way, bearing fruit
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in every good work.
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So here the fruit is associated not just
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with an internal disposition, but with the expression
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of that disposition in action.
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And then there's, there's even a third way
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that the word fruit is used.
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And Paul actually uses it in the same
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chapter in Colossians.
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So he talks about people bearing fruit.
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We just looked at that, but then he
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also earlier describes the gospel as bearing fruit.
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So, uh, this is a really long Pauline
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sentence.
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I'm going to try and go in mid
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sentence and hopefully it still makes sense.
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So he's describing in verse five, the gospel
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that has come to you in the same
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way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing
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throughout the whole world.
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The gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout
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the whole world.
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So this use of fruit is describing the
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effect of, in this case, the good news
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on a community.
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And so you can see that these, these
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kinds of fruit are connected, right?
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Like someone might have an interior disposition that's
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been expressed through an action.
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And then that action might have an effect
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on the community or the proclamation of the
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gospel might have an effect on that community,
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which then changes people's hearts.
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And so they have a different interior disposition.
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And so there are different actions.
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So these different ways that the fruit metaphor
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is used are all connected to each other.
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But I think it's important that the key
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is that it can be discerned, right?
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Paul can see that the gospel is bearing
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fruit and growing.
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Paul can see that the Colossians, right?
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That they are bearing fruit in every good
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work.
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Jesus says, we can see that the false
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prophets are false because of their fruit.
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Okay.
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So, like I said, this is news to
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a lot of people in our culture that
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you can actually discern somebody's character by looking
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at their actions, looking at the effect of
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their actions on the people around them.
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And again, Jesus himself described his own ministry
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this way.
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When John the Baptist was kind of having
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doubts and wondering, is Jesus really the Messiah?
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This is Matthew chapter 11.
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When John, who was in prison, heard about
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the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his
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disciples to ask him, are you the one
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who is to come or should we expect
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someone else?
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Jesus replied, go back and report to John
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what you hear and see.
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The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those
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who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear,
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the dead are raised, and the good news
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is proclaimed to the poor.
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Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on
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account of me.
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Jesus himself, when John the Baptist is asking,
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is it really you?
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In order to verify who he is, says,
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look at the fruit of my ministry.
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Look at what's happening in the community.
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The blind are receiving their sight.
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The poor are hearing the good news, right?
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He's not just pointing to his interior life,
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although Jesus does do that in other passages,
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like when he says, I am gentle and
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humble in heart.
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He's pointing out what's the effect of the
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life in God that Jesus brings in the
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community.
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So when we think about how to discern,
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how to separate good character from bad character,
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we're ultimately asking a question about people's hearts,
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but we can't see people's hearts directly.
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We can see their actions and we can
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see the effects of their actions on the
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people around them, on the community around them.
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Okay, so it's possible to discern character.
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That's one half of the kind of news
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that we have to share as Christians.
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It's very relevant to the business world.
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Second half is that character can change.
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So Jesus is not teaching, oh, there's some
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people that are just, you know, bad apples
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and others that are good and that there's
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nothing you can do about it.
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No, no, no, no, no.
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Part of the whole thrust of the New
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Testament is that our interior life can change
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by the grace of God.
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So another Pauline passage, Ephesians 2, as for
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you, you were dead in your transgressions and
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sins in which you used to live when
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you followed the ways of this world and
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of the ruler of the kingdom of the
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air, the spirit who is now at work
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in those who are disobedient.
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All of us also lived among them at
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one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh
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and following its desires and thoughts.
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Like the rest, we were by nature deserving
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of wrath, but because of his great love
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for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
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made us alive with Christ.
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Even when we were dead in transgressions, it
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is by grace you have been saved.
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Do you get what Paul's saying here?
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He's saying we used to live a certain
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way.
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We used to have a certain character, a
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character of disobedience, a character of indulging the
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flesh, a character of following evil desires and
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thoughts.
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And yet God in his mercy came and
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he saved us.
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He delivered us from that way of life
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into a new way of life where we,
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a couple of verses later, are created in
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Christ Jesus to do good works, which God
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prepared in advance for us to do.
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Our actions change because our character has been
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changed by Jesus Christ.
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God's grace can actually transform people's character.
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Okay, now this is also news to a
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lot of people in the business world, because
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if you can't discern somebody's character, but you
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know that character is kind of a thing,
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what do you do?
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You take shortcuts.
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So remember, even back in the 1700s, that
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one person was taking shortcuts.
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They were like, well, they should be Protestant
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and, you know, have spent time with good
15:29
families, or they're like trying to find a
15:31
shortcut to character since they're not sure how
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to discern it.
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This frequently happens in the business world today
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in regards to people's criminal records, right?
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We're not really sure how to assess people's
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character.
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So we're just like, oh, but if they
15:44
have a criminal record, then they're bad.
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That's how we kind of make the assumption.
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And so this is from a 2023 piece
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from NBC News from a reporter named Shannon
15:54
Pettypiece.
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And just talking about this dynamic, which has
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been true for decades, probably for centuries, that
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people with a criminal record often have a
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very hard time finding employment.
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So she writes, the challenges are particularly acute
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for those with drug and violent crime offenses.
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Researchers at the University of California, Riverside found
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that 75% of hiring managers said they
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were unwilling to seriously consider applicants convicted of
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drug, property, or violent crimes in a 2021
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survey.
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Ella, who was asked that her last name
16:26
not be used, said she has had a
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string of rejections since she was released in
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prison in May after having served two and
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a half years for attempted murder.
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And then it goes on and gives a
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quote from Ella.
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I felt hopeless, depressed.
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You feel like you're just back at square
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one.
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And it just takes a lot of faith
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in your support system from your family and
16:42
friends to help you out and pull you
16:43
out of that bad funk.
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You'll get a whole list of all these
16:46
jobs that are hiring because everyone needs help
16:48
and they're going to waive the background check
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and everything like that.
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Then you go through the process.
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They tell you no.
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Okay.
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Now there's one way of looking at this,
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which is like, well, you committed a crime.
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Even if you did your time, that was
17:01
your fault.
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And so now if you have fewer job
17:02
opportunities, that's on you.
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And of course there is a grain of
17:06
truth there, but is it possible for someone's
17:09
character to change?
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Is it possible for somebody who at one
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time in their life committed an action that
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was dark and wrong and bad?
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But now could have a consistent way of
17:21
living in the world that's good and helpful
17:23
and totally adequate for a specific job.
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I think so.
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I think so because I've experienced the grace
17:30
of God in my life and I've seen
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the grace of God in other people's lives.
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I know that it's possible to change.
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And so I want to give a kind
17:37
of a counter example here of somebody who's
17:41
looking at this question differently.
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So this is a relatively local.
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I'm in Aurora and this story comes from
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Wheaton, which is just like 35 minutes northeast
17:50
of me.
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And there's a business entrepreneur named Pete Leonard
17:54
who owns this coffee roasting company called I
17:57
Have a Bean.
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So they roast the best beans there are
18:01
for coffee in the world.
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They do it right there in Wheaton and
18:04
then they sell to local cafes and restaurants.
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So you can have locally roasted, fresh roasted
18:09
coffee ready to go for your customers.
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And it's apparently really good coffee.
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I'm not a coffee drinker myself.
18:14
So don't ask me.
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But on Yelp, they have like, you know,
18:17
4.8 out of 5 with dozens and
18:19
dozens of reviews.
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So, you know, this is legit coffee.
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People are really snooty in the suburbs about
18:23
coffee.
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So you can't you can't fake that.
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But what does Pete Leonard do?
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Pete Leonard intentionally hires what he calls post
18:30
prison people.
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This is from a 2023 patch article.
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And it says Leonard said his criteria for
18:38
those with convictions getting hired at I Have
18:41
a Bean is as simple as have you
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been to prison and are you living differently
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now than you were then?
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Have you been to prison and are you
18:50
living differently now than you were then?
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You see how that's a character question?
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He's saying, I get that something happened in
18:56
your past, but how are you living now?
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How are you living now?
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What's the fruit of your actions in the
19:02
people around you now in the community now?
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And of course, just like in any workplace,
19:07
Pete Leonard has no doubt had to fire
19:08
people at times and held people accountable for
19:10
how they behave.
19:11
But Pete Leonard isn't starting with the assumption
19:13
that character is impossible to change.
19:15
He's starting with the assumption that it is
19:16
possible for character to change and it is
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possible for character to be discerned in the
19:21
present.
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OK, so if we know as Christians, we
19:26
know stuff.
19:27
Remember that it is possible for character to
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be discerned and it is possible for character
19:30
to change.
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How should this affect what we do in
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our workplaces?
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Well, my applications today are maybe more relevant
19:36
for people in HR or small businesses, folks
19:38
that might influence hiring.
19:40
But it can influence your own attitude and
19:42
you can be an advocate for others, whatever
19:44
your role is at your place of employment.
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OK, so the first is how do we
19:50
do hiring and are we screening for character
19:53
in our hiring?
19:55
A lot of times we're kind of taking
19:57
shortcuts, right?
19:58
Like that one ad that's like, oh, well,
20:00
they need to be Protestant, right?
20:01
We're taking shortcuts like, OK, they don't have
20:03
a criminal record or, you know, they went
20:05
to a good school.
20:06
But are you actually screening like that other
20:08
person from the 1700s for honesty, right?
20:12
Are you screening for how does this person
20:14
treat other people?
20:16
One business entrepreneur who had a great idea
20:18
about this was Tony Hsieh.
20:20
Tony was one of the founders of Zappos,
20:22
which is a shoe company, kind of renowned
20:25
for being a wonderful place to work.
20:28
It was then sold to Amazon and sadly,
20:30
Tony passed away in 2020.
20:32
But he gave this interview where he talked
20:34
about how they did screening for job applicants.
20:38
So and I quote, a lot of our
20:40
job candidates are from out of town and
20:42
we'll pick them up from the airport in
20:44
a Zappos shuttle, give them a tour and
20:46
then they'll spend the rest of the day
20:47
interviewing.
20:48
At the end of the day of interviews,
20:50
the recruiter will circle back to the shuttle
20:52
driver and ask how he or she was
20:54
treated.
20:55
It doesn't matter how well the day of
20:56
interviews went.
20:57
If our shuttle driver wasn't treated well, then
20:59
we won't hire that person.
21:02
Isn't that brilliant?
21:04
Right?
21:04
Because what is a good way to discern
21:06
someone's character?
21:07
How do they treat people that are less
21:09
powerful than them?
21:10
Right?
21:10
People often treat people of high status or
21:12
people that could affect their lives very well.
21:14
I'm sure that in the interviews, everybody is
21:16
polite.
21:17
But you get somebody in an environment where
21:19
they think they're just dealing with a quote,
21:20
unquote, low status individual, someone who has less
21:22
power than them.
21:23
That's where their real character appears.
21:25
And so Tony Hsieh was smart.
21:26
He was like, how about we capture that
21:28
interaction, which they weren't necessarily expecting us to
21:31
capture, and screen for character before we hire
21:34
them?
21:35
I bet that kind of character screening is
21:37
a lot of why Zappos has been such
21:39
a great place to work.
21:41
Okay, so that's one idea.
21:43
And then the second idea is simply, like
21:45
Pete Leonard, to hire people, even if they
21:48
have criminal records, if you have discerned that
21:51
their character has changed.
21:52
Now, that's a big if.
21:53
It requires being able to discern character.
21:55
It requires thinking creatively about, how do we
21:57
discern character as part of our hiring process?
22:00
Maybe you need to get creative, like Tony
22:02
Hsieh.
22:02
But if it's possible for character to change,
22:05
you should not throw out applicants just because
22:07
of a criminal record.
22:09
Okay, so those are my two HR applications.
22:13
Make screening for character part of your hiring
22:16
process.
22:17
And don't assume that character is permanent.
22:20
Don't assume that somebody's character from 10 years
22:23
ago is the same as their character today.
22:26
Now, if you're not in HR, I would
22:28
just encourage you to think about how you're
22:31
discerning the people around you.
22:33
Learn the language of character so that you
22:36
can discern, oh, is this issue I'm having
22:38
with a coworker?
22:38
Is this like a personality conflict?
22:40
Or is this like a character issue, right?
22:42
That'll help you, again, distinguish, is this an
22:44
oak tree?
22:45
Is this a maple tree?
22:46
Is this a thistle?
22:47
Is this a grape?
22:48
Having the language of character will help you
22:51
understand your own life at work better and
22:53
help you love other people better, ultimately.
22:56
So whatever your workplace is, whatever God has
23:00
you doing today, what you're bringing to the
23:04
table, among other things, is your character.
23:06
And that really matters.
23:08
And that'll make a difference for everyone around
23:09
you.
23:11
Lord Jesus, thank you that you did come
23:13
to save us and to transform our character,
23:16
to fill us with your life.
23:19
Show us how to live as people of
23:22
good character, doing good works in our workplaces
23:25
and give those of us who do have
23:26
decisions about other people, wisdom on how to
23:29
discern their character and how to trust that
23:32
that can change.
23:34
Jesus, do your work in us as we
23:35
do our work with you.