Latest / Foul Territory / Ken Rosenthal explains MLB Cap vs. No Cap debate and alt solutions + Yankees ST report w/Greg Joyce

Transcript

Ken Rosenthal explains MLB Cap vs. No Cap debate and alt solutions + Yankees ST report w/Greg Joyce · Foul Territory

0:05
Speaker 1: Let's hit the inside scoop with e FT senior insider
0:08
Speaker 1: Ken Rosenthal making us jealous outside hopping a camps. Ken,
0:11
Speaker 1: great to talk to you, and we saw the big
0:14
Speaker 1: article you put out this morning laying out some counters
0:17
Speaker 1: to just a straight hard salary cap. So what do
0:21
Speaker 1: you have for us lay it out?
0:24
Speaker 2: Well, the purpose of the article, Scott, was just to
0:26
Speaker 2: really say a salary cap is not the only solution here.
0:31
Speaker 2: It seems that the way the conversation is gone in
0:33
Speaker 2: recent weeks, that's what people are thinking, Well, it's a
0:36
Speaker 2: cap or nothing. And I would suggest that the sport
0:40
Speaker 2: is in a very healthy place right now. We know
0:42
Speaker 2: the revenues last year, we're twelve point one billion. They're
0:44
Speaker 2: expected to be even higher for twenty twenty five when
0:48
Speaker 2: the numbers come in. We saw a great World Series.
0:51
Speaker 2: Fifty one million people watched Game seven worldwide. It's not
0:56
Speaker 2: the right time for a labor dispute which would be
1:01
Speaker 2: triggered by the owner's push for a salary cap. Now,
1:05
Speaker 2: they may push, and that's fine. They have every right
1:07
Speaker 2: to do whatever they want to do with negotiations. But
1:10
Speaker 2: in the end, what I believe will happen and should
1:13
Speaker 2: happen is revision to the current CBA, and what the
1:18
Speaker 2: article is are just a bunch of ideas that I
1:21
Speaker 2: throw out there. They're not fully formed ideas. They're not
1:25
Speaker 2: formal proposals or anything like that. It's just thoughts on
1:28
Speaker 2: how to address the issue of revenue disparity, which some
1:33
Speaker 2: people might say is not an issue. It's kind of
1:36
Speaker 2: a hard thing not to say is an issue and
1:38
Speaker 2: you have one team at four hundred or one team
1:39
Speaker 2: at one hundred million dollars. But that was the purpose
1:43
Speaker 2: of it, just to kind of counter this ongoing WHOA
1:48
Speaker 2: the sport needs a cap? I don't know that it
1:50
Speaker 2: needs a cap. I don't believe it does, first of all,
1:52
Speaker 2: And second of all, if you try for a cap
1:56
Speaker 2: and you miss time in twenty seven, will shame on
1:58
Speaker 2: everyone that should not have happen.
2:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree totally. And I think you know from
2:03
Speaker 3: reading the article, I understanding what you're talking about. I
2:06
Speaker 3: want to know from you, with all the things that
2:08
Speaker 3: you put out, there's what's basically besides that, what's the
2:11
Speaker 3: number one thing that you've gotten out of this that
2:14
Speaker 3: needs to be changed in this CBA in your opinion?
2:18
Speaker 2: Todd, First, off, happy birthday and thank you. As far
2:21
Speaker 2: as that question, it's a good one. And the number
2:26
Speaker 2: one change in my opinion that needs to happen is
2:28
Speaker 2: to get more revenue to the small market club and
2:32
Speaker 2: as part of that, to ensure that they spend it
2:36
Speaker 2: on major league payroll. Now, how do you do that?
2:40
Speaker 2: What Commission Rob Manford is trying to do right now
2:42
Speaker 2: is get more games nationally, take some of the local
2:46
Speaker 2: games and make it part of a national package. Of course,
2:48
Speaker 2: dough national television deals as well. And one of the
2:52
Speaker 2: ideas in there is simply distribute that money, not evenly
2:56
Speaker 2: as it has been distributed in the past, the national
2:58
Speaker 2: TV money, but give it disproportionately to the lower revenue teams.
3:03
Speaker 2: It's one way to get them more money. Now. Part
3:06
Speaker 2: and parcel with that is those teams. Sorry about this, guys, Those.
3:12
Speaker 4: Teams are good. We came in here, ken, you're good.
3:15
Speaker 2: A higher level, and obviously in a cap system you
3:18
Speaker 2: have a salary cap and a salary floor. But it
3:20
Speaker 2: has always struck me as odd that at the top
3:24
Speaker 2: of the payscale, top of the payroll scale, we have
3:28
Speaker 2: a luxury tax system with thresholds and penalties. Why not
3:32
Speaker 2: do that at the bottom. Similar kind of thing soft bottom,
3:37
Speaker 2: where you go below a certain level, there are penalties
3:40
Speaker 2: for that, whether it's losing draft picks and using revenue
3:43
Speaker 2: sharing money, could be anything, and philosophically, I don't see
3:47
Speaker 2: how the owners could oppose that you got this at
3:49
Speaker 2: the top, well why not put it at the bottom?
3:52
Speaker 5: Ken, I'm going to be lambasted for saying, Oh, this
3:56
Speaker 5: is such a player's view. A lot of these issues
3:58
Speaker 5: are owners versus owners, and you even brought it up
4:01
Speaker 5: in one of you know, in part of your article today,
4:05
Speaker 5: like why has it seemed like the fight seems like
4:10
Speaker 5: players have to negotiate owners versus owners issues?
4:15
Speaker 2: Well, historically that's at times been the case, Eric, where
4:20
Speaker 2: basically the owners we're asking the players to solve their problems,
4:24
Speaker 2: and in ninety four to ninety five that was certainly
4:27
Speaker 2: an aspect of it. In this case, we'll see how
4:31
Speaker 2: together the owners are. People always talk about, well, can
4:34
Speaker 2: the players stick together? It's always a fair question. But
4:37
Speaker 2: where the owners going to be Are the Yankees, the Dodgers,
4:41
Speaker 2: the Mets. The Dodgers and Mets in particular going to
4:44
Speaker 2: be content to share more money if that's what it
4:48
Speaker 2: comes to if there is nothing on the other end
4:51
Speaker 2: for them, if these teams don't spend that money properly. Now,
4:54
Speaker 2: in a cap system, obviously it's a different scenario entirely,
4:59
Speaker 2: and that in some respects from the owner's perspective, would
5:03
Speaker 2: be very healthy, not just for franchise values, but also
5:07
Speaker 2: the Dodgers and Mets would only be spending so much
5:10
Speaker 2: in that scenario. Maybe that's what ultimately they would prefer.
5:15
Speaker 2: But at the same time, what I like about the
5:19
Speaker 2: current system is why would we limit teams and what
5:22
Speaker 2: they can spend. Why are we telling them you can't
5:25
Speaker 2: do this. You can put penalties in and you can
5:27
Speaker 2: make it tougher for them, And all of those things
5:30
Speaker 2: are proper within the context of the current system, But
5:34
Speaker 2: the idea of saying don't try as hard as you can,
5:37
Speaker 2: that's problematic.
5:40
Speaker 5: One of the things, one of the things that always
5:42
Speaker 5: comes up in the CBA negotiation is the fact that
5:46
Speaker 5: teams at the bottom don't spend enough. And you kind
5:50
Speaker 5: of hit it on a little bit. Do you believe
5:53
Speaker 5: that because every negotiation starts at a point for everybody
5:59
Speaker 5: they're saying salary cap, what do they really want to hit.
6:03
Speaker 5: You know, if you want to if you want to
6:04
Speaker 5: make a hundred million dollars, you're not going to say
6:06
Speaker 5: I'd like one hundred million dollars because they'll negotiate back
6:08
Speaker 5: and go, we'll give you fifty. You know. So they
6:11
Speaker 5: want the salary cap, But where do they really want
6:14
Speaker 5: to get?
6:14
Speaker 6: You?
6:14
Speaker 5: Where did baseball really major League Baseball really want to
6:17
Speaker 5: get to?
6:19
Speaker 2: Evan Drellik, in his article from Wednesday about the salary
6:23
Speaker 2: cap and how it would work, I believe had numbers
6:26
Speaker 2: along the lines of two sixty at the top, one
6:28
Speaker 2: fifty at the bottom, not exact, but it was in
6:31
Speaker 2: that range that to me is unrealistic on both ends.
6:36
Speaker 2: The small market teams some of them can't get to
6:39
Speaker 2: one fifty, and some of the large market teams are
6:42
Speaker 2: not going to want to go down that low, and
6:44
Speaker 2: frankly can't go down that low for quite some time.
6:48
Speaker 2: And in the cap leagues, and I point this out
6:50
Speaker 2: in my article today, basically the cap and floor for
6:55
Speaker 2: the most part are quite close together. Nine in the
6:58
Speaker 2: NAHL and NBA, ninety percent of the floor is I'm sorry,
7:03
Speaker 2: ninety percent of the cap is where the floor is.
7:06
Speaker 2: So that's very much condensed in baseball, There's no way
7:09
Speaker 2: you could do that. And I have a hard time
7:11
Speaker 2: seeing we haven't talked about this much. Okay, you want
7:15
Speaker 2: a cap. How's it going to work? How this is
7:17
Speaker 2: going to happen exactly? And of course we haven't gotten
7:20
Speaker 2: to that point yet. I'm sure the owners have plans
7:23
Speaker 2: to make it work and their eyes can pull it off,
7:27
Speaker 2: but I'd like to see it in practice. I don't
7:29
Speaker 2: believe for this sport it is that practical, at least
7:35
Speaker 2: in the models that we've seen from the other sports.
7:38
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8:40
Speaker 3: I love what you wrote on there about teams having
8:42
Speaker 3: to meet a payroll. And I think you hear a
8:45
Speaker 3: lot of owners, a lot of you know, presidents talk about,
8:48
Speaker 3: oh we don't have we're a small market, we don't
8:50
Speaker 3: have the money. I think a soft floor like you're
8:52
Speaker 3: talking about here where teams don't meet it. What would
8:55
Speaker 3: be the extent of not meeting a payroll if that
8:58
Speaker 3: was to be instituted.
9:01
Speaker 2: Well, this is my idea, Todd's yeah, that's why I
9:04
Speaker 2: want to hear.
9:05
Speaker 6: I want to hear about it, sure right.
9:06
Speaker 2: What I'm talking about is you don't need a certain
9:09
Speaker 2: level you lose draft picks. You don't need a certain level,
9:11
Speaker 2: you lose revenue.
9:12
Speaker 6: Sharing money.
9:13
Speaker 2: You don't compete at a certain level, win a number
9:16
Speaker 2: of games a minimum over i don't know, three or
9:19
Speaker 2: four year periods. You lose money that way, or you
9:22
Speaker 2: lose something. So there are ways to do that. I'm
9:28
Speaker 2: sure the owners would hate that idea. They would say, no, no,
9:31
Speaker 2: you want a floor, you gotta have a cap. And
9:33
Speaker 2: I'm saying, this isn't the floor. This is a soft floor,
9:36
Speaker 2: like the soft cap that currently exists in baseball. It's
9:39
Speaker 2: not really a cap. But you know what I'm saying,
9:41
Speaker 2: there are restrictions there. Yeah, And that's what I'm saying,
9:44
Speaker 2: restrictions at the bottom too, because if those teams are
9:48
Speaker 2: going to get more money, and I'm suggesting that they
9:50
Speaker 2: should get more money, then at some point they've got
9:53
Speaker 2: to spend on payroll, not infrastructure, not on a new
9:57
Speaker 2: academy somewhere in Latin America, not on club US improvements,
10:01
Speaker 2: not on all the things and all the excuses they
10:03
Speaker 2: make not to spend on payroll, staffing, whatever the case
10:07
Speaker 2: might be. Put it into the major league team. That's
10:10
Speaker 2: what I would like.
10:11
Speaker 1: To see ken, And that's my question. I know we're
10:15
Speaker 1: not going through a history lesson with the labor agreement
10:18
Speaker 1: right now. But where did we go wrong where that
10:21
Speaker 1: wasn't a thing. That's the pressing question for me. How
10:24
Speaker 1: did we get to a place where we have a
10:27
Speaker 1: soft cap but we don't have a soft floor. And then,
10:30
Speaker 1: even more so what you're saying right now, money is
10:33
Speaker 1: being shared, and I think this is the biggest fight
10:35
Speaker 1: within owners right and we never get to really hear
10:37
Speaker 1: from how those conversations go. But you're a big market team,
10:40
Speaker 1: You're like, I am giving so much money to this
10:42
Speaker 1: team and they just spend one hundred million dollars on
10:45
Speaker 1: their spring training facility to up their franchise value. They're
10:48
Speaker 1: going to say, oh, this helps, it definitely helps, but
10:50
Speaker 1: they're like, that's not really the intent of this. So
10:52
Speaker 1: I'm just curious how we got to a point where
10:55
Speaker 1: teams are pocketing cash And you just do very simple
10:57
Speaker 1: math and you're looking at a national TV deal among
11:00
Speaker 1: other things that are shared, and you're like, there's no
11:02
Speaker 1: way this team should be spending at this low of
11:05
Speaker 1: a number.
11:07
Speaker 2: Right Scott. I don't know exactly when the luxury tax
11:10
Speaker 2: was instituted. I believe it was with the ninety six
11:12
Speaker 2: agreement coming out of the strike, and then it was
11:17
Speaker 2: shelved for a couple of years and brought back in
11:18
Speaker 2: two thousand and two. At that time, and I don't
11:22
Speaker 2: remember exactly I was, of course working, but I don't
11:25
Speaker 2: remember exactly what happened. But it doesn't seem to me
11:28
Speaker 2: that the spending at the bottom was as problematic as
11:32
Speaker 2: it is today, that teams weren't spending at a level
11:36
Speaker 2: that was or were spending at a level that was
11:38
Speaker 2: kind of offensive to people. I don't recall it being
11:40
Speaker 2: that way now. Maybe at that point the union should
11:43
Speaker 2: have had the foresight to ask for that or demand it.
11:46
Speaker 2: The union back then was pretty good. They were winning
11:49
Speaker 2: negotiations pretty much every round. But I don't recall exactly
11:54
Speaker 2: what happened there. But this is the whole thing, And
11:58
Speaker 2: fans are some or understandably upset about what the Dodgers
12:02
Speaker 2: and Mets, and even the Yankees and Red Sox do. Okay,
12:07
Speaker 2: Blue Jays are another team, But there are other fans
12:11
Speaker 2: who were equally upset by what teams like the Marlins
12:14
Speaker 2: and the Pirates before this year, and White Sox some
12:17
Speaker 2: of these other clubs have done as well. And you
12:21
Speaker 2: can't complain about one and I complain about the other
12:23
Speaker 2: in my opinion, and you can't address one without addressing
12:26
Speaker 2: the other.
12:28
Speaker 5: Are the owners together more than they were before? Because
12:32
Speaker 5: before every time in the public it's, oh, we voted
12:35
Speaker 5: thirty to thirty to zero, knowing that's not the case.
12:39
Speaker 5: Are they more, you know? Are they on the same
12:44
Speaker 5: side of this argument more than they were before? Like
12:46
Speaker 5: if it was fifteen and fifteen, is it one way
12:50
Speaker 5: or the other now? Compared to the last CBA.
12:54
Speaker 2: We haven't gotten going yet with the negotiations, Eric, so
12:58
Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to read. It's really easy to
13:00
Speaker 2: be together both sides right now. Nothing's happened yet, when
13:05
Speaker 2: push comes to shove, when the numbers start flying, when
13:07
Speaker 2: the proposals start going back and forth, will the owners
13:10
Speaker 2: be as together. I have a hard time believing it's
13:13
Speaker 2: simply because if I'm the owner of the Cleveland Guardians,
13:17
Speaker 2: my worldview is much different than it would be if
13:20
Speaker 2: I were the owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers of
13:22
Speaker 2: New York Mets. That's actually the problem we're talking about here.
13:26
Speaker 2: So we'll see if they stay together, and maybe all
13:30
Speaker 2: thirty do supported CAP. They need twenty three votes to
13:33
Speaker 2: get anything approved. On their end, then of course they
13:36
Speaker 2: have to deal with the players. I can see where
13:40
Speaker 2: that might be the case. Twenty three might support a
13:42
Speaker 2: cap if only for their franchise values, which is the
13:44
Speaker 2: real motivation here. They want cost certainty so they can
13:47
Speaker 2: get their franchise values up. The franchise values in the
13:50
Speaker 2: sport have not increased as dramatically as some others, but again,
13:55
Speaker 2: there are many financial measures you can use, many in caters.
14:00
Speaker 2: I would look at attendance being up each of the
14:03
Speaker 2: last three years. That's happened for the first time since
14:05
Speaker 2: two thousand and five to two thousand and seven. There
14:07
Speaker 2: are so many good things happening. If a cap, which
14:13
Speaker 2: one is maybe difficult to pull off for the sport
14:16
Speaker 2: and two more importantly a real problem for the union
14:20
Speaker 2: and something that is going to cause you to possibly
14:22
Speaker 2: miss games, maybe a lot of games. That's a high
14:25
Speaker 2: cost to me. It's too high a cost to pay
14:28
Speaker 2: all right.
14:28
Speaker 5: Then the other side, I know the negotiations haven't started yet,
14:32
Speaker 5: but we know the last CBA was agreed upon after
14:35
Speaker 5: the Executive Committee declined it, but the players said no,
14:40
Speaker 5: we would, We'll take it. Are the players on the
14:44
Speaker 5: same side, Are the players as as tight knit a group,
14:48
Speaker 5: as Tony Clark says, I.
14:51
Speaker 2: Don't know that there as tight as they were twenty
14:54
Speaker 2: thirty years ago, and they haven't lived this the way
14:58
Speaker 2: those players from the past. There hasn't been a work
15:01
Speaker 2: stoppage in the sports since ninety four ninety five, so
15:05
Speaker 2: that is a fair question, Eric, And it remains to
15:08
Speaker 2: be seen just how together they are. It seems to
15:10
Speaker 2: me that the majority of them do understand the issues
15:14
Speaker 2: here and understand kind of where this is and why
15:18
Speaker 2: a cap is not in their necessarily best interests. But
15:24
Speaker 2: one of the owner's strategies over the years has been
15:27
Speaker 2: to try to divide the players, and there are various
15:29
Speaker 2: ways to do that. You can offer young players some inducements,
15:32
Speaker 2: maybe higher minimum salaries that would say to them, well, hey,
15:36
Speaker 2: why are we playing, We want a higher minimum salary,
15:39
Speaker 2: let's go, And then you could do it in all
15:43
Speaker 2: kinds of ways. But they do try to divide the players,
15:45
Speaker 2: and it will be a test for the players to
15:47
Speaker 2: stay together because of course, once we get to crunch time,
15:51
Speaker 2: if we do get to crunch time, then it's people's
15:56
Speaker 2: livelihoods on the line. It's their families, futures, on line
16:00
Speaker 2: all of these things, and you're gonna have some percentage
16:04
Speaker 2: of players, maybe not a large percentage, some percentage just
16:07
Speaker 2: gonna want to play. So again, both sides will be
16:10
Speaker 2: tested in this regard a labor negotiation is always that way.
16:14
Speaker 2: They're always people on both sides who are not necessarily
16:19
Speaker 2: in agreement with the majority. We saw it, as you said,
16:21
Speaker 2: Eric in vivid form in the last round, when the
16:25
Speaker 2: executive board said no, and the fast player population said,
16:31
Speaker 2: we're not listening to you. We're going to approve this deal.
16:33
Speaker 2: We don't want to go out, we don't want to
16:34
Speaker 2: miss games.
16:36
Speaker 1: Hey, Ken, last one on this. And I've actually been
16:39
Speaker 1: reading a lot about issues the NBA has been facing
16:42
Speaker 1: lately where players are sitting. I mean, they've always been
16:45
Speaker 1: doing that, but even more so, I mean there is
16:47
Speaker 1: some super tanking going on, and it's a league that
16:49
Speaker 1: has two thirds of it that makes the postseason, and
16:52
Speaker 1: it's really dumbing down the regular season. I just want
16:54
Speaker 1: to point out that I felt as if the draft lottery,
16:58
Speaker 1: for example, was a really smart move and that both
17:00
Speaker 1: sides agreed to it. Do you feel like there's a
17:03
Speaker 1: little bit less tanking in our sport? Compared to the
17:07
Speaker 1: prior run before the CBA. And I want to be
17:09
Speaker 1: careful about how I phrase this. I think some teams
17:11
Speaker 1: are just going through financial turmoil and weirdness without getting
17:15
Speaker 1: too deep into it versus I'm talking about the Nationals,
17:19
Speaker 1: the Astros, the Cubs did this, the Orioles did this
17:21
Speaker 1: where it was like this, scrap it all down five
17:24
Speaker 1: years and I'm generalizing where it's just awful and it's
17:29
Speaker 1: devastation and you lose a generation of fans. And sometimes
17:32
Speaker 1: it works and turns into a title, and it worked
17:33
Speaker 1: for many of the teams I mentioned, but I just
17:35
Speaker 1: don't like the way that played out. So do you
17:37
Speaker 1: feel like, at least say something like a lottery was
17:40
Speaker 1: a good lever to try and counter that.
17:43
Speaker 2: Yes, And tanking has been disincentivized, so that is a
17:48
Speaker 2: good thing. And actually, Scott, I'm gonna close with this
17:52
Speaker 2: because this is kind of the point I made at
17:54
Speaker 2: the end of the story. You can do little things
17:59
Speaker 2: to the agreement, like the sport is done on the
18:02
Speaker 2: field with little changes, not little necessarily, but a series
18:06
Speaker 2: of changes. And what am I talking about? The pitch clock,
18:09
Speaker 2: the enlarged bases, all the different rules, changes that have
18:12
Speaker 2: come into play in recent years that have made the
18:14
Speaker 2: game a better product. What I'm saying is, why can't
18:19
Speaker 2: you do that with the CBA. Why can't you continue
18:22
Speaker 2: what you just mentioned, Scott, what you started in the
18:25
Speaker 2: last CBA and maybe those little changes, and some of
18:27
Speaker 2: them would be bigger than others. Of course, then it
18:30
Speaker 2: adds up to the sport being in a better place.
18:33
Speaker 2: I would suggest it's not in a bad place now,
18:35
Speaker 2: but it can always be improved. And that is what
18:38
Speaker 2: I'm talking about here. You don't have to burn the
18:40
Speaker 2: house down, you don't have to radically change where this
18:44
Speaker 2: sport is. You do have to do some things along
18:47
Speaker 2: the edges, and maybe even more significant than along the edges,
18:50
Speaker 2: to enhance through revenue equality. It's not going to be
18:55
Speaker 2: equal ever in the sport, and by the way, it's
18:57
Speaker 2: not going to be equal under a cap either. Even
19:00
Speaker 2: under a cap, you're going to have some team spending
19:02
Speaker 2: more than another. But are there things that can be done.
19:06
Speaker 2: That's the point of what I wrote today. Yes, there
19:08
Speaker 2: are things that can be done short of a salary
19:10
Speaker 2: cap that would improve this sport.
19:12
Speaker 6: Now.
19:13
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that my ideas are the ideas that
19:16
Speaker 2: will come to pass and should come to pass. I'm
19:18
Speaker 2: a baseball writer, I'm not an economist. I don't necessarily
19:21
Speaker 2: have all the answers. In fact, I know I don't
19:23
Speaker 2: have all the answers. But that's the conversation I would
19:26
Speaker 2: like the sport to have.
19:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll say to fans, be careful what you
19:30
Speaker 1: wish for, right If you want radical change, the league
19:32
Speaker 1: might change significantly and it might not change the way
19:34
Speaker 1: you want it to. Just throwing that out there too.
19:36
Speaker 1: So love hearing both sides. Boden comes on and brings
19:39
Speaker 1: the ownership side all the time too.
19:41
Speaker 6: For this.
19:41
Speaker 1: But Ken, great article, and yeah, I saw what Evan
19:43
Speaker 1: put out there. We'll talk to Evandrolic at some point,
19:46
Speaker 1: but if you want to see what Ken put out
19:47
Speaker 1: there today, the athletic Is Twitter account has the link
19:50
Speaker 1: to it as well. Ken, thank you, Enjoy camp. You're
19:53
Speaker 1: in Royals camp.
19:55
Speaker 2: Royals camp today and I'm going to head to the
19:56
Speaker 2: Diamondbacks in a little.
19:57
Speaker 1: Bit perfect okay, and enjoy Thanks Ken. We'll on Fair
20:00
Speaker 1: on Monday. Thanks guys, Fair Territory Monday. But also if
20:05
Speaker 1: you backtrack to the Thursday episode, they went over baggate,
20:10
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about later, Luke Weaver, that's all I'll say. Hey,
20:15
Speaker 1: sometimes we do a little game on foul Territory called
20:19
Speaker 1: role play. It's not what you think. We're just picking
20:22
Speaker 1: up our phones and we're talking as if we're somebody
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Speaker 1: a little bit cheaper for making phone calls, who should
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21:17
Speaker 1: His name is Greg Joyce and We appreciate the time. Greg,
21:19
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. Check out Greg's work in
21:22
Speaker 1: the New York Post and he follows the team on
21:25
Speaker 1: a daily basis and now joins us for the first
21:27
Speaker 1: time here on FT. Greg, thanks for the time. I'm
21:29
Speaker 1: going to throw right to Todd Father. He's going to
21:30
Speaker 1: give you a hard hitting question or some prep here
21:33
Speaker 1: right off the jump if you want one about what's
21:35
Speaker 1: going on at Yankees camp.
21:36
Speaker 3: Wait, what's up, big dog? Good to see you.
21:39
Speaker 6: Yeah, you too, Thanks for having me, Guys.
21:40
Speaker 3: Good Man good So. I don't know if it's a
21:43
Speaker 3: hard hitting question, but you know, with all the injuries
21:45
Speaker 3: the Yankees do have, you know, from volt By to
21:48
Speaker 3: the two starting pitchers, who do you see the one
21:51
Speaker 3: coming back first here in making that impact? I know, listen,
21:55
Speaker 3: I talked about it before. I said to a lot
21:57
Speaker 3: of people, if they're five hundred after the first month
21:59
Speaker 3: or two, I think I would take that as a plus.
22:01
Speaker 3: But who do you see coming back the quickest and
22:04
Speaker 3: who do you think is going to make the most impact.
22:07
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think at this point it seems like Carlos
22:09
Speaker 8: rodon Is is the closest coming back. I think, you know,
22:13
Speaker 8: Aaron Boone said yesterday, he's not far off from the
22:15
Speaker 8: rest of the starters at this point. You know, I
22:18
Speaker 8: could see him probably in late April. It seems like
22:20
Speaker 8: would be the best case scenario. You know, it seems
22:22
Speaker 8: like they're gonna take things carefully with him just because
22:25
Speaker 8: they you have so many guys coming back from injury,
22:28
Speaker 8: like you said, but it seems like he's not far behind.
22:32
Speaker 8: H You know, he had the elbow surgery to clean
22:34
Speaker 8: up some loose bodies in that elbow. But I think
22:37
Speaker 8: he's closest in terms of overall impact. I'd say Garrett
22:41
Speaker 8: Cole obviously. You know, it's they played all of last
22:44
Speaker 8: season without him. You know, he's a guy that's a
22:46
Speaker 8: former cy Young winner. We don't know what exactly what
22:49
Speaker 8: version's gonna be when he comes back, but you know,
22:52
Speaker 8: he threw a bullpen today. Here's s Tian burnerfield and
22:55
Speaker 8: you know he was hitting ninety six. You know, tatausin
22:58
Speaker 8: Wells after he Cott said he looks like Garrett. So
23:01
Speaker 8: obviously he still has a long way to go, a
23:03
Speaker 8: couple of months probably to before he gets back on
23:06
Speaker 8: a big league round. But you know, it seems like
23:08
Speaker 8: at this point he's he's hit all the markers that
23:11
Speaker 8: he needs to. You know, it's the chance he gets
23:14
Speaker 8: into spring training games before you know they leave camp.
23:17
Speaker 8: So again they're going to take their time with him.
23:20
Speaker 8: But maybe he gets back late in May early June.
23:23
Speaker 8: And but having a guy like that back in the rotation,
23:26
Speaker 8: it seems to be the biggest one.
23:29
Speaker 1: Greg, I'll give you a big picture topic that I
23:31
Speaker 1: felt became a thing in New York. The Yankees made
23:35
Speaker 1: plenty of moves this offseason, but it was really to
23:38
Speaker 1: retain their players. So the whole run it back thing,
23:41
Speaker 1: and I heard Paul Goldschmid addressed it the other day.
23:43
Speaker 1: It'll be a great excuse, right if they're if they
23:45
Speaker 1: don't win the World Series, it'll be like, well they
23:48
Speaker 1: ran it back. That doesn't work. So what's your take
23:50
Speaker 1: on you know that narrative? And then also, I know
23:53
Speaker 1: it's early in camp, but does it feel different with
23:57
Speaker 1: the roster construction because of maybe the way playing time
24:01
Speaker 1: will shift pitchers like Cole that wasn't part of the
24:03
Speaker 1: mix last year. Do you feel like running back is unfair?
24:08
Speaker 8: Yeah?
24:08
Speaker 6: I think it.
24:08
Speaker 8: I don't think it's quite as simple as running back.
24:11
Speaker 8: I get it it's you know, the I think twenty
24:13
Speaker 8: four the twenty six players they had on the roster
24:15
Speaker 8: for the Alds last October stelling the organization. So in
24:19
Speaker 8: that respect, it's you know, it's it's a lot of
24:21
Speaker 8: the same faces, but they didn't have coal and over
24:25
Speaker 8: the course of the season, they didn't have the you know,
24:27
Speaker 8: the full depth of guys that they got the trade
24:29
Speaker 8: deadline that they kind of did with an eye on
24:32
Speaker 8: this year, knowing that they had you know a lot
24:33
Speaker 8: of those guys under control. I think it comes down to,
24:37
Speaker 8: you know, you can argue with it or not, but
24:40
Speaker 8: I think it comes down to the conference that they
24:42
Speaker 8: had in that team. You know, in the second half
24:44
Speaker 8: after the trade deadline last year, they really thought that
24:46
Speaker 8: in Aaron Bone has mentioned this multiple times, they really
24:48
Speaker 8: thought that that was as good as a roster as
24:50
Speaker 8: they had, you know, at least in Boone's time here.
24:53
Speaker 8: You know, I had as good of a chance as
24:55
Speaker 8: any to to win it all. And that's including the
24:58
Speaker 8: team that they went to the World Series with year
24:59
Speaker 8: before or which obviously included Wan Soto.
25:03
Speaker 6: You know, it obviously didn't work out. The Blue Jays
25:05
Speaker 6: kicked their butt all.
25:05
Speaker 8: Season Uh, and they ran into them in the l
25:08
Speaker 8: d S and and it was a bad one for him. So, uh,
25:11
Speaker 8: we'll see how it goes this year. But obviously it's
25:13
Speaker 8: a you know, they now they have a full season.
25:16
Speaker 8: They hope of Cam Schlitzler. Obviously he's dealing with some
25:19
Speaker 8: back inflammation early in camp, but they think he's gonna
25:21
Speaker 8: be fine by opening day. Uh.
25:23
Speaker 6: So you get if you get.
25:24
Speaker 8: A full season at him, you get at least a
25:26
Speaker 8: couple of months, uh, you know, early early first half,
25:30
Speaker 8: Cole comes back. You know, you get a full season
25:33
Speaker 8: of having Ryan McMahon at third base. Obviously that the
25:35
Speaker 8: bad has been uh you know, hasn't didn't explode last
25:40
Speaker 8: season after the trade from the Rockies, but his defense
25:42
Speaker 8: is legit at third base.
25:44
Speaker 6: And you get you know, some.
25:45
Speaker 8: Bullpen arms like David Bednar and Camilla de of all,
25:48
Speaker 8: you get them for a full season. Obviously, they still
25:50
Speaker 8: have some holes in the bullpen or some areas for
25:52
Speaker 8: guys to step up. We'll see how that shakes out.
25:54
Speaker 8: But I mean they really think that, and they think
25:57
Speaker 8: what Trent Grisham did last year was for real and
26:01
Speaker 8: not just a you know, clip on the radar.
26:04
Speaker 6: They do think it's repeatable.
26:05
Speaker 8: So you know, whether you agree with it or not,
26:08
Speaker 8: it comes down to I think their confidence and what
26:11
Speaker 8: those guys are capable of doing.
26:12
Speaker 6: And you know.
26:13
Speaker 8: Brian Cashman said last month that one series wasn't going
26:15
Speaker 8: to shape their confidence and what they believe that that
26:18
Speaker 8: group can do. So obviously it's you know, you can't
26:21
Speaker 8: really change that until this October, and they got a
26:23
Speaker 8: long way to go before then. But uh, you know,
26:25
Speaker 8: the team last year, for all its flaws, did win
26:27
Speaker 8: ninety four games and one went away from winning the
26:31
Speaker 8: l East. So we'll see how it goes this year.
26:33
Speaker 8: But I think it's they are you know, it's it
26:36
Speaker 8: is a super familiar group, but I think it's not
26:38
Speaker 8: quite as simple as running it back.
26:42
Speaker 5: They only have flaws because of expectation. If anybody won
26:46
Speaker 5: ninety four games, rulers and they're like, oh, they won
26:49
Speaker 5: ninety seven, and you talk about any other team that
26:51
Speaker 5: won ninety four only flaws because of expectation. It's just
26:55
Speaker 5: a team that's built differently. I want to talk about
26:57
Speaker 5: two players. One is twenty five, just turned twenty five
27:01
Speaker 5: and Cam Schlittler and one is still twenty four In
27:04
Speaker 5: Anthony Volpi. Two guys with one. Oh, Cam Schlittler is
27:09
Speaker 5: gonna be this amazing player. Look what he did to
27:11
Speaker 5: the Red Sox. Volpi in Yankees eyes, Yankees fans eyes,
27:15
Speaker 5: not Yankees organization eyes, fans eyes. This guy should be
27:19
Speaker 5: out of here. Who has to have a better season
27:22
Speaker 5: for the Yankees to succeed. Knowing that Volpi's gonna start
27:26
Speaker 5: a little bit later, but that there's a ton of
27:29
Speaker 5: expectation on him, and people just have already penciled in
27:32
Speaker 5: Cam Schlittler for the All Star Game.
27:35
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it is an important year for Volpi. Obviously,
27:38
Speaker 8: year four in the big leagues. Like you said, it'll be,
27:40
Speaker 8: you know, a little bit delayed once he gets back
27:42
Speaker 8: from from shoulder surgery. But I mean what they got
27:45
Speaker 8: from him in the first two years defensively.
27:47
Speaker 6: Was was legit.
27:49
Speaker 8: Obviously, I took a step back last year. It's hard
27:52
Speaker 8: to tell how much of that he's from the shoulder.
27:55
Speaker 8: You know, they kind of in the season kind of
27:58
Speaker 8: downplayed it what its effect was. It was his left shoulder,
28:00
Speaker 8: but they said once they opened the up for surgery,
28:03
Speaker 8: it turned out to be worse than they thought.
28:05
Speaker 6: In the moment.
28:06
Speaker 8: So it's it's hard to say quantify for sure how
28:08
Speaker 8: much impacted him defensively offensively, but if you get that
28:12
Speaker 8: guy back, that can be a goal club type defender.
28:15
Speaker 8: And the biggest thing is just trying to get any
28:18
Speaker 8: kind of consistency from him at the plate. He's shown
28:20
Speaker 8: it in stretches, including you know, early on last season
28:22
Speaker 8: it looked like he had kind of found a way
28:25
Speaker 8: to give you a little bit more consistent impact at
28:27
Speaker 8: the plate, and then he got and then he dove
28:30
Speaker 8: on the shoulder, I think, and there's a pretty fairly
28:34
Speaker 8: clear line of demarcation there for you know, when his
28:38
Speaker 8: offense started to tail off a little bit. But I
28:40
Speaker 8: think it's an important year for him because at some
28:42
Speaker 8: point you got to do it. You know, they've talked
28:43
Speaker 8: about the confidence that they still have in him, Like
28:45
Speaker 8: you said, he's still young, but besides the last year,
28:49
Speaker 8: still had the defense. But at a certain point, you know,
28:52
Speaker 8: he's going to have to prove that he can can
28:53
Speaker 8: impact the game offensively, at least somewhat more consistently than
28:56
Speaker 8: he's done. They have Jose Cabieriro now, who's like a
29:00
Speaker 8: legitimate backup, shorts up or a little legitimate shorts up,
29:03
Speaker 8: so they have that option, whereas they haven't always had that,
29:07
Speaker 8: you know, slit solid option behind him to threaten to
29:10
Speaker 8: kind of take plenty of time from him. So we'll
29:12
Speaker 8: see how that plays out. Kaviera is probably gonna get
29:14
Speaker 8: the ball to the starts there with the first month
29:16
Speaker 8: of the season before Bolt comes back. But I mean, slily,
29:19
Speaker 8: there's potential high end in the rotation obviously, but they
29:22
Speaker 8: have other guys there in the rotation that can kind
29:25
Speaker 8: of carry it with Freed and you know Rodn once
29:27
Speaker 8: he gets back. But it does seem like it's a
29:30
Speaker 8: you know, bigger year for Bolty here to prove what
29:33
Speaker 8: he can do.
29:34
Speaker 3: A little bit on the minor league side. Questions for you,
29:37
Speaker 3: George Lombard Junior Spencer Jones, where do you see these
29:41
Speaker 3: guys fitting in with the big team. I don't know
29:43
Speaker 3: if necessarily they're going to be on the team after
29:46
Speaker 3: spring training, but how do you see them working their
29:49
Speaker 3: way towards you know, big league, big league time.
29:53
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, at a certain point this offseason there
29:55
Speaker 8: was a chance, it seemed like for Spencer Jones to
29:57
Speaker 8: come into this campaign and win a job of see
30:00
Speaker 8: when they resigned Cody Bellinger. It's hard to hard to
30:02
Speaker 8: see a path for him now, especially with Jason de
30:05
Speaker 8: Megaz kind of in front of him trying. And it's
30:08
Speaker 8: at this point it seems like Dimegas might be back
30:10
Speaker 8: in Triple A too with Jones to start the year. Obviously,
30:13
Speaker 8: if they stay fully healthy. You know, they got to
30:16
Speaker 8: decide whether they want Tomegaz is the fourth outfielder on
30:19
Speaker 8: the bench and playing every couple of days, or whether
30:21
Speaker 8: it's more important for him to be playing every day
30:23
Speaker 8: at Triple A. But I think it was you know,
30:24
Speaker 8: it was a big year for Spencer last year at
30:26
Speaker 8: Triple A.
30:27
Speaker 6: Between Double A, Triple A U.
30:29
Speaker 8: He went on that tear middle of the summer where
30:32
Speaker 8: he kind of flashed that you know, sent a reminder
30:34
Speaker 8: of what he's capable of doing. Obviously that you know,
30:37
Speaker 8: he's got big time power, he's got some speed, athleticism.
30:40
Speaker 8: They think he can play center field. But obviously the
30:42
Speaker 8: strikeouts are you know, a's sizeable concern. But if he's
30:47
Speaker 8: if he's you know, pumping the ball that the way
30:49
Speaker 8: he showed last summer, and you know, you can learn
30:51
Speaker 8: to live with the strikeouts. I think so I would
30:55
Speaker 8: imagine he starts the year back at Triple A, borrowing
30:57
Speaker 8: some injuries to the to the l field that the
31:00
Speaker 8: big league level. But you know, I mean, you guys know,
31:03
Speaker 8: once you're at Triple A, you're just an injury or
31:04
Speaker 8: two away from from getting that call up. So I
31:07
Speaker 8: wouldn't be surprised if we see him at some point
31:09
Speaker 8: this season. We'll see and then George Lombard junior. Uh,
31:13
Speaker 8: you know they've said and Scotts have said this too.
31:15
Speaker 8: His defense is you know, he's major league ready defensively
31:18
Speaker 8: right now. It's the bat that kind of he needs
31:21
Speaker 8: some more development time. But I would think he starts
31:24
Speaker 8: the year back Double A, which is you know, he
31:26
Speaker 8: got up there pretty quickly last year with a hot
31:29
Speaker 8: start at High A, So you know, it should be
31:32
Speaker 8: an important year development year of him at Double A,
31:35
Speaker 8: trying to find some some more consistency offensively. But we've
31:39
Speaker 8: seen it here, you know, he was in big league
31:41
Speaker 8: camp last year and and some of the defense he has,
31:43
Speaker 8: it's just it looks looks like a major league short stop.
31:46
Speaker 8: So that part of his game seems ready, is just
31:48
Speaker 8: kind of making sure the offense could catch up.
31:50
Speaker 6: With that.
31:52
Speaker 5: Who has more at bats in the big league this year?
31:54
Speaker 5: Jason Dominguez or Spencer Jones. You hit on Spencer Jones
31:57
Speaker 5: there a little bit. Who gets more abs? Because I'm
32:01
Speaker 5: looking at it, Jason Domingos has two hundred and twenty
32:05
Speaker 5: at bats in Triple A so far, and you're sending
32:07
Speaker 5: Spencer Jones back to maybe work on his strikeouts, you
32:11
Speaker 5: might need to spend Jason dominga is back to work
32:14
Speaker 5: on what his defense is hitting right handed? What is where?
32:20
Speaker 5: Where do you see that playing out? Because of the
32:22
Speaker 5: fact that they got Trent Gristram back on the qualifying
32:26
Speaker 5: offer and they resigned Cody Bellingder.
32:29
Speaker 8: Yeah, I would expect Diminga is still to get more
32:31
Speaker 8: bigly get bats this year. You know, they he played
32:34
Speaker 8: some winter ball this this offseason and the focus just
32:37
Speaker 8: kind of work on that defensively left field and also
32:40
Speaker 8: try to, you know, get some some reps right handed.
32:43
Speaker 8: You know, it's tough if he if he was better
32:45
Speaker 8: from the right side, he'd be a strong fit off
32:48
Speaker 8: the bench for this team because they are so left handed. Unfortunately,
32:52
Speaker 8: his stronger side, at least last year was left handed.
32:54
Speaker 8: So it's he's kind of a you know, repetitive in
32:57
Speaker 8: some senses, but I still think, you know, he probably
33:00
Speaker 8: has a better shot that gets more legitimate, you know,
33:02
Speaker 8: playing time up here, whether that's a you know, if
33:05
Speaker 8: if they're some openings at d H, if there are
33:08
Speaker 8: you know, in left field, because they can move Cody
33:09
Speaker 8: Bellinger around, you know, if there are other.
33:12
Speaker 6: Injuries around, you know, in center or first base.
33:15
Speaker 8: But they think, you know that they don't seem to
33:18
Speaker 8: want to play Domingos in center, which is where he
33:20
Speaker 8: came up in the minors. But Spencer Jones has you know,
33:23
Speaker 8: they think they're going can play a legit center field,
33:25
Speaker 8: even though he's bounced around a little bit in the corners.
33:27
Speaker 8: But just because Dimingus has the experience up here and
33:30
Speaker 8: has done it in flashes, I think, you know, at
33:33
Speaker 8: this point, I'd expect him to get more at bats,
33:35
Speaker 8: even if he does start a year back at Triple A.
33:39
Speaker 5: It just seems seems like they just keep re running,
33:43
Speaker 5: rerunning the same guy when it's not when the fit's
33:45
Speaker 5: not there. But we'll see who knows who knows where
33:47
Speaker 5: it rolls. John Carlos Stanton across the across the country
33:52
Speaker 5: in LA, everybody talks they always talk about, you know,
33:55
Speaker 5: just kind of slowly trudging through the regular season, making
34:00
Speaker 5: sure you're one hundred percent healthy. Jean Carlos Stanton is
34:03
Speaker 5: a playoff monster. Do they take any other precautions this
34:10
Speaker 5: season for gian Carlos so that he can be that
34:13
Speaker 5: playoff monster and be one hundred percent healthy? Or do
34:16
Speaker 5: they just roll him out there until he needs a
34:18
Speaker 5: break and then give him a break.
34:21
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think they'll be they'll be careful, you know.
34:24
Speaker 8: Aaron Boo mentioned the other day, like they think it's
34:26
Speaker 8: good for him at this point in his career to
34:28
Speaker 8: be playing three out of four or four out of five,
34:30
Speaker 8: but to get semi regular off days mixed in there.
34:33
Speaker 8: They think it's good for him to keep him healthy.
34:36
Speaker 8: I mean, obviously he missed time at the start of
34:38
Speaker 8: last year with the elbows, but when he came back,
34:40
Speaker 8: it was probably one of the more you know, consistently
34:43
Speaker 8: productive regular seasons he's had in a few years.
34:46
Speaker 2: Uh.
34:46
Speaker 8: And that was by you know, they had that rotation
34:49
Speaker 8: of guys that were starting, so he was getting every
34:52
Speaker 8: you know, fourth fifth day off which seemed to do
34:54
Speaker 8: well for his body.
34:56
Speaker 6: Uh, And he played well, So I think, you.
34:58
Speaker 8: Know, at this point, it sounds like he's coming in
35:00
Speaker 8: camp with a pretty healthy elbows. Obviously, it was this
35:03
Speaker 8: time last year that we found out about that he'd
35:05
Speaker 8: been dealing with it all off season. But at this point,
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Speaker 8: you know, boone expects him to be a full go.
35:10
Speaker 8: They have position players reporting on Sunday, so we'll see
35:13
Speaker 8: what happens, you know, if there's any hiccups with that
35:15
Speaker 8: once they do physicals all that. But from everything we've
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Speaker 8: heard at this point, he seems to be a full go,
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Speaker 8: you know, and I think he'll play pretty consistently at
35:24
Speaker 8: the h but getting semi regular off dates just to
35:27
Speaker 8: keep his body fresh, like you said, because if you
35:30
Speaker 8: get him, the most important thing is having him October
35:32
Speaker 8: when it's you know, his time to to kind of
35:35
Speaker 8: you know, put the team on his back sometimes.
35:37
Speaker 1: Greg, great insight.
35:39
Speaker 6: We enjoyed it.
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Speaker 1: We'll follow your coverage all your hope you had fun
35:42
Speaker 1: and enjoy the sunshine out in Florida today. As you know,
35:46
Speaker 1: you get the early mornings going, get a little hand
35:49
Speaker 1: going have fun out there. But thank you for joining us.
35:51
Speaker 1: Really appreciate the time. Great great info.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, thanks guys, thank you.
35:56
Speaker 1: That's Greig Joyce. You can see his work in the
35:58
Speaker 1: New York posts follow of the Whole Deal