Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #297 - For Azeroth!: “Save the Date”

Transcript

#297 - For Azeroth!: “Save the Date” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

• 0:00
  I'm totally cool with this. I'm not going to go and cry
• 0:03
  anyway. So we were just like saying give
• 0:07
  me a second. I've got some in my eye for the
• 0:08
  Karen tour. For Pandaria.
• 0:14
  For calendar to the. Burning region for Gilneus or
• 0:21
  has not done for the Lich King for the.
• 0:26
  Cindori for the Alliance for. The Horn for Azeroth.
• 0:34
  Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
• 0:38
  I am one of your hosts, Manny, AKA the true villain Manny.
• 0:42
  And returning triumphant from her travels abroad is Lex.
• 0:48
  Lex, how are you and how has the woodwork?
• 0:50
  I've been treating you for like half a month now.
• 0:55
  I don't know that we could say I returned triumphant, since I
• 0:58
  returned very well. Very I'm I'm a whiny little
• 1:01
  baby. I returned mildly ill and I've
• 1:03
  decided to milk the absolute life out of that.
• 1:07
  So which also answers the how is the World of Warcraft treating
• 1:10
  me? Not really at all.
• 1:13
  I've done a couple. I think I did one mythic plus in
• 1:17
  the last bald cycle, which is really sad because I love it and
• 1:21
  I'm having a lot of fun and I want to tank and I'm finally
• 1:23
  actually kind of getting tanked. Like kind of like Sean has seen
• 1:26
  how many times I die as tank. But that's OK.
• 1:28
  I'm getting there. I'm learning, I'm figuring it
• 1:29
  out. I learned that demon spikes is
• 1:32
  actually not optional, which I will just say I think it's not
• 1:36
  optional to be listed on the core rotation instead of like
• 1:38
  you have to Scroll down 5 pages and it's like, you should always
• 1:41
  keep demon spikes up girl. Then why is it on the core
• 1:43
  rotation? But that's OK, I'm not upset.
• 1:45
  It's fine. We figured it out.
• 1:48
  But it's pure cooldown. It doesn't actually use any of
• 1:50
  your resources, right? It doesn't.
• 1:52
  I don't, I don't know what I'm if I, if I'm learning that, but
• 1:56
  then I, how am I supposed to know?
• 1:58
  I get, I get OK, OK, here's the thing.
• 2:00
  I get the logic. Now that I've found where demon
• 2:03
  spikes is in the in the page, I understand why it was written
• 2:07
  that way. It's very intelligent.
• 2:08
  They simply expect me to have brain cells.
• 2:10
  Here's the issue. I'm a vengeance tank already.
• 2:13
  We've determined I don't have brain cells, only zoom.
• 2:15
  So like I, I, I, I saying this is this is my fault, but it's
• 2:19
  not my fault. You know, like objectively, this
• 2:21
  is my problem. I was the issue here.
• 2:23
  I'm the idiot. It did say very clearly, you
• 2:25
  want to always keep demon spikes up.
• 2:27
  Did she expect me to read like multiple words?
• 2:30
  Like I look at, I look at the Pretty Little pictures and then
• 2:33
  I'm like, oh, I think that's a rotation.
• 2:34
  I don't know how. To do it, it is.
• 2:35
  Really. I know I haven't been introduced
• 2:37
  yet and that's what to talk. It is really far down here.
• 2:42
  It's it's a. It's fairly down scrolling and.
• 2:45
  I was like, surely it's right at the top, but it's like it's not
• 2:48
  even listed in my. It's like advanced tips like
• 2:51
  this is not an advanced, this is a.
• 2:52
  Basic core, basic thing. Yeah, yeah, I think.
• 2:55
  So militated in this Chili's today.
• 2:59
  Honestly, like it's glad, I'm glad that you are taking the
• 3:01
  time to learn the other spec for your class.
• 3:04
  That gives you a lot more flexibility for like, let's say
• 3:10
  one of your raid guys needs to take it take time off to go on
• 3:14
  vacation. They want to go visit their
• 3:15
  brother and and stuff. And then you like lose one of
• 3:19
  your tanks or something. You being able to jump in means
• 3:23
  that your 18 it gets to continue and it also just understanding
• 3:27
  the different roles. That means that you've been
• 3:29
  healing, you're now DPS ING and you're getting your feet into
• 3:34
  into tanking. That means you're just going to
• 3:36
  have a better understanding of the game.
• 3:37
  So I I love it for you. Have you, having spent some time
• 3:42
  at tank, have you learned to appreciate what the tank has to
• 3:46
  handle better? Have you like learned to
• 3:49
  appreciate what the DPS should do to help a tank in it through
• 3:53
  those? Well, the first thing I'll say
• 3:54
  is I think we might be reaching the point where maybe we have to
• 3:58
  start saying that I'm a vengeance mane because the only
• 4:01
  time I do havoc is in raid because we have 2 tanks and it's
• 4:05
  you know like I'm, I'm not going to be taking either of those
• 4:07
  spots and like I. I part of it is just because
• 4:11
  it's so much easier to get in, but that's not even true.
• 4:13
  I say like, oh, I just I tank mythic plus it's so much easier
• 4:16
  to get into mythic plus pugs the tank.
• 4:18
  I cannot remember the last time that I've done anything more
• 4:20
  than like pug one DPS. I've only been playing with my
• 4:22
  Guild and like occasionally I'll swap out for another tank, but
• 4:26
  my God do I whine about it not really it's fine if you guys
• 4:29
  also want to learn to tank in my rate team, that's OK.
• 4:31
  I'll you I'll I'll DPS. It's not a big deal.
• 4:33
  It's fine, whatever it's OK, but I whine about it.
• 4:36
  I I do really enjoy tanking. I will say I don't know how I
• 4:41
  would learn this without people teaching it to me.
• 4:45
  The one that's really still breaking my brain.
• 4:47
  I have so much trouble in city of threads.
• 4:49
  I don't understand what I'm supposed to do in the
• 4:51
  conglomeration. Like I literally I've done it so
• 4:53
  many times and it really I just like I cry like I and then like
• 4:56
  I think I'm supposed to be collecting balls.
• 4:58
  But like if I do, then I drag the boss all over and and then
• 5:01
  Sean's like, Oh, we should have everyone gather and get the but,
• 5:03
  but nobody does. And then all my range is over
• 5:04
  there and it's scary. And then I like, and then I get
• 5:07
  overwhelmed and I like, I don't. And I've tried to look up guys
• 5:10
  guides, but all the guides are like not telling, like
• 5:12
  positioning is hard. Like I, I know that this is
• 5:15
  going to sound like, I feel like everyone's like, oh, tanks are
• 5:17
  so easy. All they do is positioning.
• 5:18
  Yeah, that's difficult. Like there's a lot of things you
• 5:20
  have to think about to position properly.
• 5:22
  And then it's like, is this like, am I able to like bait
• 5:25
  this cone or not? And like nobody's going to tell
• 5:26
  you, you got to figure that one out on your own or have Sean and
• 5:29
  you're telling you what to do. Yeah, it's it's.
• 5:32
  It's tricky, but I'm having a lot of fun with it.
• 5:35
  So like for those of you at home who don't have like your own
• 5:38
  pocket, Sean and your team telling you how to deal with
• 5:41
  this stuff, I would like to refer you to Radar iOS Mythic
• 5:48
  plus guides. They do include very specific
• 5:52
  enemies that you need to be worried about.
• 5:55
  The affixes. We do reference them in the
• 5:58
  show. That's a really good way of
• 6:01
  learning that that sort of stuff.
• 6:03
  I think that typically if you do YouTube guy, if you do YouTube
• 6:10
  and it's like, oh, this is like the look at the at the dungeon.
• 6:13
  You will find some people who do guides, guides on that, though
• 6:18
  with the speed that like things are coming out, I think it's not
• 6:21
  as frequent as it used to be, like when when seasons were
• 6:24
  slower, but there are stuff out there.
• 6:27
  I think anybody, any question that you could ask, there's an
• 6:31
  entire musical about everything on the Internet, but any
• 6:33
  question you could ask, other people are asking it too.
• 6:36
  And so there's a demand for those answers.
• 6:39
  And so they're out there. So I do, I do suggest that
• 6:41
  again, I think Radar IO does a really good job of like their
• 6:45
  roots. They'll do roots that are the
• 6:47
  beginning of roots. They'll do play like the pros,
• 6:50
  which is the higher ones. Somehow we managed to get
• 6:53
  through to the guys at Radar IO and now they actually divide it
• 6:55
  at 12. So you have like the stuff with
• 6:57
  affixes and the stuff without affixes now, and that's really
• 7:00
  great. So like that's what I would
• 7:02
  suggest for the people at home. But of course you can jump into
• 7:06
  the fast discord bit dot LY slash fast discord and ask
• 7:11
  questions. We have had some people who've
• 7:13
  just been like, hey, I've been like losing threat to like
• 7:15
  enhancement shaman. What the hell is going on there?
• 7:17
  And we managed to help them out. We've had some people come in
• 7:21
  and ask like various questions and we're always wanting to help
• 7:23
  because half the time we're asking those questions ourselves
• 7:26
  or have asked those questions or you ask a question and we don't
• 7:30
  even know. And it's like, huh, at least
• 7:32
  somebody in the community knows. And then we find out how to
• 7:34
  leave a five star review on Apple.
• 7:39
  So. Add to that, yeah, be nice to
• 7:42
  your pug tanks. We have such a like tank dirt
• 7:46
  and like also healer issue. But it it does seem like it when
• 7:48
  I was pugging, it seemed like it was pretty heavily a tank issue.
• 7:52
  And so we need people learning tank and it's hard.
• 7:55
  Like it is, it is. I mean, like, you know,
• 7:56
  whatever, there's you, it's not the end of the world, but like
• 7:59
  it is a lot that is on your plate and you can't really like
• 8:02
  hand wave it away. So like if you're pugging with
• 8:04
  somebody and they're obviously learning, talk to them because
• 8:08
  they probably don't have a pocket Shawn or don't you know,
• 8:11
  I'm not your mom. But that's my advice as somebody
• 8:13
  who likes to pug a lot of mythic plus be nice, be nice to your
• 8:17
  mythic plus pug tanks. They are probably learning and
• 8:19
  they're probably doing their best.
• 8:20
  For sure. So we have yet to introduce
• 8:25
  Sean. Hello, Sean.
• 8:27
  Manny, that was quite an intro. I'm going to.
• 8:30
  I'm going to ask you to keep it short so we can get into the
• 8:32
  episode itself. I'm sorry.
• 8:34
  Yeah. But like, let's come back after
• 8:35
  two weeks. She deserves the line share of
• 8:37
  the time. Yeah, no, I get it.
• 8:38
  Yeah, game's been great playing with my raid team on an A, my
• 8:43
  key team, Valor Reign. I made my trumpet, my trumpet
• 8:46
  return to EU healing. I am healing again for the
• 8:51
  rating Fates Reforged. A bunch of friends of the show
• 8:54
  are on this Guild and they were, they lost a healer, so they
• 8:57
  needed somebody. And I thought, you know what?
• 9:01
  I don't need to see my family. Let's play some more Warcraft.
• 9:05
  For Asroff does not condone Warcraft widows.
• 9:09
  Yeah, for legal reasons, it's a joke.
• 9:11
  I see my wife plenty. She's sick of me.
• 9:14
  See the pre show. Yeah.
• 9:18
  OK, Well, I'm, I'm glad for that.
• 9:20
  We have seen a lot of people who are being diving into both
• 9:25
  Mythic plus into delves, into rating.
• 9:29
  It is in full swing. And this week we got huge
• 9:35
  changes, hot fixes that have shaken up a lot of things.
• 9:39
  So it doesn't really matter what you play, something has been
• 9:42
  adjusted that affects you. So the first two that we're
• 9:46
  going to deal with or stuff that have sparked a lot of
• 9:50
  consternation in the community and they seem like relatively
• 9:54
  small changes, but clearly nobody like that.
• 9:59
  So the first one is that Zekvir and Zekvir's layers no longer
• 10:06
  count towards credit for the Great Vault.
• 10:10
  This was because a lot of people were just chain running the
• 10:16
  supposedly mage tower level challenge that at the base level
• 10:21
  8 is no longer that big of a challenge for many people who
• 10:24
  are relatively geared. And as people have been just
• 10:30
  trying to, you know, min Max optimize, conserve as much
• 10:36
  effort as possible. This seemed to be the fastest
• 10:38
  way for people to just fill up their vault.
• 10:41
  And so Blizzard came down with a nerf hammer and said, no, not
• 10:45
  happening. What do you guys think of this?
• 10:47
  Let's let's go to you first, Sean.
• 10:48
  I feel like I guess I'm of two minds.
• 10:53
  I suspect Zek fear counting towards the weekly fault was a
• 10:58
  bug that was never meant to happen and that Blizzard simply
• 11:02
  removed it once they realized it was happening.
• 11:05
  So I don't really. I don't delve a lot and I'm
• 11:09
  beyond a gear point where it matters.
• 11:10
  Any characters I have that could still use the gear from delves
• 11:13
  are going to run bountiful delves because I need the gear
• 11:15
  from delves that I get with the keys in the chests.
• 11:19
  But the other side of the coin is who is this hurting?
• 11:24
  Just leave it right? If people only have a limited
• 11:27
  time every week and they can jump in and blast out eight Zek
• 11:31
  fears and they're two hours to play that week, just let them.
• 11:35
  Who delves are so irrelevant at this point for anything other
• 11:41
  than alts and I guess AOTC only teams there's just go let them
• 11:46
  do them anyway all right? There's a lot of there's a lot
• 11:50
  of caveats in irrelevant there. So let's let's go to Lex.
• 11:56
  You've been seldomly playing the last two weeks, so your gear is
• 12:00
  probably not as advanced as Sean, who's been pushing through
• 12:03
  halfway through mythic. So I would assume that that that
• 12:08
  the vault and the entire row for Dells is still fairly relevant
• 12:13
  for you. What about you?
• 12:15
  What do you think about this? Yeah.
• 12:16
  I mean, what is the whatever 6/5/16, 5:16 that's the year
• 12:23
  that it's dropping 216? Six or three at the end, 610 if
• 12:26
  you have a map and 616 in the vault.
• 12:29
  In the I, I only pay attention to the last two numbers.
• 12:32
  Everything else is irrelevant to me.
• 12:34
  The first the I'm moving on. I'm I'm not making that joke.
• 12:37
  Yeah, so 616 gear is still, I'm 610 item level, so 616 still
• 12:42
  feels very good to me. I I will say everyone was like,
• 12:48
  Oh yeah, you can fill your whole great vault slot in like 10
• 12:51
  minutes. Like, yeah, that's the problem.
• 12:54
  Like, I don't know, I, I, I, it was, it was a little funky that
• 12:59
  Zac Fear's lair was giving us great vault credit.
• 13:02
  I am with Sean. I think it was probably a bug or
• 13:05
  they didn't realize that people would literally just sit there
• 13:07
  grinding out Zac Fear's vault or Zac Fear's lair for their great
• 13:10
  vault. I hear you, Sean, that like, you
• 13:13
  know who's being harmed by this? But I mean, at that point, why
• 13:18
  can't I fill out my mythic plus line in 10 minutes, right?
• 13:21
  Like why can't like to some degree, I think gears being
• 13:26
  handed away, what's the meaning of it, right?
• 13:29
  Like 616 is is pretty high level.
• 13:31
  Like that's hard to get outside of.
• 13:35
  Like there's a reason that that like delves my team.
• 13:37
  You're right. AORTC only teams love delves
• 13:40
  still like we all still do our full line fault line because 616
• 13:44
  is nothing to sneeze at for an AORTC only team.
• 13:48
  So I think that that like kind of gets into the like the deeper
• 13:53
  underlying question of like, how much should World of Warcraft be
• 13:58
  catering? Sounds like bad, I think.
• 14:00
  But like, how much should we be prioritizing making it so the
• 14:03
  people don't feel like they have to grind to play this game?
• 14:05
  And like you can do relatively like mid level, like AOTC and
• 14:10
  mid level keys with limited effort, given that most of us
• 14:14
  are adults, like established in our careers, in our lives, we
• 14:17
  have kids, we have families, not me, but other people have kids
• 14:20
  and families. So time is limited versus like
• 14:25
  if everyone is getting to a certain level than that levels
• 14:28
  kind of stops feeling meaningful because everyone's getting
• 14:30
  there, right? Like nobody had to work for it.
• 14:31
  And that that's a really complex question.
• 14:33
  We've talked about that so many times on the show.
• 14:35
  We will continue to talk about that so many times on the show.
• 14:38
  So basically I kind of am on Blizzard side with this.
• 14:41
  I think that like personally, I think that if you are able to
• 14:44
  fill out an entire like one of the higher level great vault
• 14:47
  slots in 30 minutes, that's not meaningful.
• 14:52
  Like at that point they might as well just like you log in and
• 14:54
  you get it. That's not true.
• 14:55
  I understand you're doing more than that, but still like it.
• 14:57
  It's it's a pretty low amount of effort.
• 14:59
  I understand why people are frustrated.
• 15:00
  I think that it was probably a good call from Blizzard and I
• 15:02
  think that it only feels bad because it feels like something
• 15:04
  was taken away. I think that we were all no go
• 15:08
  for. It I don't think Zekfir's layer
• 15:10
  drops loot, does it? So it stops.
• 15:12
  Purely to just so it's. Just your vault slots, yeah,
• 15:15
  Yeah, I I got to tell you, man, if you still need gear, like if
• 15:20
  you still need 616 track gear, I don't think you're clearing
• 15:24
  Zekfir 8 times in 10 minutes. I don't think you.
• 15:26
  Clearly we are. It's I think it was mostly.
• 15:29
  Is it that fast? Yeah, it's super easy.
• 15:31
  I mean, like, maybe OK, not 10 minutes, like 30 minutes in
• 15:33
  exaggeration. It's probably like an hour of
• 15:35
  grinding but still OK. You could you could do 8 delves
• 15:38
  in about an hour. Ogre or druid You still threw
• 15:42
  them. Just run that earth crawl mine.
• 15:44
  Still need to. You still need to do the
• 15:47
  objectives along the way. And.
• 15:49
  That is going to cause you to pull more stuff that will cause
• 15:53
  you to make the and make it longer to Zach fair like this is
• 15:57
  sorry. In my opinion, this is Ma of
• 16:00
  souls again. It is people who were seeking
• 16:03
  their rewards that wanted to do it in the most efficient way
• 16:06
  possible. Running through Zechvir's layer
• 16:11
  is fun. The first time you get it done
• 16:15
  and possibly the next bunch of times you get it done.
• 16:20
  That is like I did it on my retribution spec, I did it on
• 16:24
  protection spec, I've now done it on holy, I've now done it on
• 16:27
  all three roles. Like I've mastered this content.
• 16:31
  I think that there is generally something that is fun for people
• 16:36
  to do it multiple times. I think that Blizzard has the
• 16:39
  numbers and if somebody is doing it 8 * 1 character 8 times the
• 16:43
  second character, 8 times the next 6 characters, they're not
• 16:47
  doing it for the fun and enjoyment of it.
• 16:50
  They are clearly looking to to like maximize the reward that
• 16:55
  they get out of it. And so if you are somebody who
• 16:59
  does normal or is AOTC so that your other your other tracks
• 17:08
  don't just surpass it in terms of item level, yeah, this will
• 17:13
  be good. If you are somebody who is
• 17:15
  looking for your tear set to get your tear set all all at least
• 17:21
  heroic level, it makes sense to fill out this line.
• 17:24
  And I believe people were doing this in order to like get the
• 17:28
  get the rewards because you don't get end of end of dungeon
• 17:34
  gear out of this. This is this is specifically to
• 17:37
  fill out the vault to have those extra selections to be like, OK,
• 17:40
  I got something I can throw it in the catalyst or I got the the
• 17:43
  tier exactly. Or the there's a trinket, a
• 17:47
  knife, ritual knife that if you are not in mythic level is
• 17:53
  genuinely a competitive trinket against anything you can get in
• 17:57
  raid or mythic Plus. But it is not on anybody's best
• 18:02
  in slot list because it caps out at that 16616 level that you can
• 18:07
  get it from or whatever. I think 619 is the cap of like
• 18:10
  that that line. Who knows of a?
• 18:14
  Zero track, it's 626 is the cap. 626 Thank you.
• 18:18
  Right. And so I think that people can
• 18:22
  push for for that reason or, or or another, but genuinely, who
• 18:28
  does it hurt? Is is like one of those things
• 18:32
  where it's like, if I give away, if I could create $1,000,000 and
• 18:39
  give everybody $1,000,000, who does it hurt?
• 18:41
  And it's like nobody immediately.
• 18:45
  But then the community adjust to it.
• 18:48
  We get people who are like nothing in the lower levels of
• 18:52
  mythic plus means anything. And now nobody get nobody gets
• 18:55
  to like work their way up through Mythic.
• 18:57
  Plus we get everybody who is in the raids, who gets normal, who
• 19:03
  looks at the gear and there's like, I don't need any of this.
• 19:05
  And they jump directly into heroic because they've out
• 19:07
  geared it before they've done their natural progression and
• 19:10
  the raid gets devalued. And I'm not saying that this is
• 19:13
  like a awe things need to be hard.
• 19:17
  It's that the progression gets screwed up.
• 19:20
  It causes it, it causes people not to like to over gear things
• 19:25
  rather than learn through things.
• 19:27
  And that causes them to hit a much harder wall when they stop
• 19:31
  getting that support of that gear.
• 19:34
  And there's also a question of like if you are, let's say you
• 19:39
  are a delver only you only do second.
• 19:42
  I didn't remove that that gear still exists.
• 19:45
  You said it just takes 8 times as long now, right?
• 19:47
  You're. Going to run 8 delves instead of
• 19:49
  eight, and now you're also going to get hero track gear because
• 19:52
  you're running four of them are going to be bountiful with keys.
• 19:55
  So they've increased the amount of gear you're going to get by
• 19:58
  doing this? No.
• 20:01
  Well if you run 4 bountifuls that give you loot that give you
• 20:03
  6 or three heroic track loot, that's four more pieces you
• 20:08
  weren't getting if you were just doing 8 sectors.
• 20:10
  Yes, but you've created a false dichotomy there.
• 20:12
  Both options existed prior to this week.
• 20:15
  One options gone this week. If you were getting the gear
• 20:18
  through doing the doing the bountiful delves right one,
• 20:23
  you're playing more and I would suspect that you have a little
• 20:25
  bit better practice with your your character though it
• 20:28
  doesn't. It's not.
• 20:29
  One for one. Doing a delve is not the same as
• 20:31
  rating is not the same as mythic.
• 20:33
  Plus way harder than doing a delve doing is a single zek fear
• 20:36
  is way way outer than doing a single belt I.
• 20:39
  Wonder if that's class specific because I have very like I
• 20:43
  personally I found it different like just the I guess challenges
• 20:47
  is relative. Yeah, relative.
• 20:50
  Yeah, like like so, So for me, I have found that like Zek fear,
• 20:54
  it's a very like rinse and repeat sort of mechanic focus
• 20:58
  thing. And once I kind of got that
• 21:00
  dance, it was like a little bit of a pain, but like I can get it
• 21:02
  down pretty easily. Delves, I mean, are also kind of
• 21:04
  rinse and repeat, but longer. There's more like different
• 21:08
  people are doing different things, different things are
• 21:09
  going on over here. I gotta remember to gather this.
• 21:11
  I gotta go over here. I gotta kill.
• 21:12
  Like it feels like there's more going on.
• 21:14
  And so going through 8 delves does feel like more of a
• 21:17
  personal challenge then just like, OK, I'm gonna go back in
• 21:21
  and then, oh, and then he's casting the thing and then I go
• 21:23
  over here and I kill the spider web and then, Oh yeah, zoom on
• 21:26
  back here. And then I do like it it for me,
• 21:29
  that feels like a little bit a little bit easier.
• 21:34
  And I mean, like to be fair. Also a lot of guides were very
• 21:36
  specifically saying do Zach fear because it's so much faster and
• 21:39
  and clean. I will also say, sorry, man.
• 21:43
  And then a lot of you speak. No, no, go ahead, go ahead.
• 21:46
  I think they're like 6 O Like the people who are benefiting
• 21:51
  from 616 gear are not necessarily benefiting from six
• 21:54
  O 3 gear. I don't do bountifuls anymore.
• 21:56
  They're meaningless to me, right?
• 21:57
  It's the same gear though, you just upgrade it.
• 21:59
  Yeah, crests are expensive. Crests are the hardest thing.
• 22:01
  You're going for if you well, if you already have gear at 616,
• 22:06
  you don't need crests, you just need valor stones and you can
• 22:08
  optimize your stats or you can catalyze those pieces for your
• 22:12
  heroic tier pieces. That's fair.
• 22:13
  But so so like I I hear what you're saying there, but like to
• 22:17
  push like as I'm so maybe I'm shabbatic hearing I mean.
• 22:22
  OK. Sorry to support like in a
• 22:25
  little bit, right. If you are going through Dekvier
• 22:29
  it is an intense challenge that it is that is more of a
• 22:35
  challenge in one sitting then Delves would be in anyone
• 22:41
  sitting. But I think that the variety of
• 22:43
  challenges in the delves, the things that that pop up gives
• 22:48
  you more variety of like of encounters rather than hey, I've
• 22:55
  learned how to defeat Zakvir. I know the three major moves
• 22:58
  that he does. And I just repeat this at at
• 23:00
  nauseam. I think that if you were pushing
• 23:04
  an 11 Zakvir, he's going to be just harder and more demanding
• 23:08
  because the intensity and the timings and, and, and what's
• 23:11
  required of you in one go. But it doesn't require you to
• 23:14
  use all of your tool set like you would see in in like the
• 23:19
  full range of delves. In my in my opinion, like you
• 23:23
  use more of your tool set then you would for a single
• 23:26
  encounter. So I think in terms of like
• 23:29
  specificity, how much does this mean do not screw up?
• 23:33
  Definitely Zekvir is going to going to push that button.
• 23:37
  But if it's like, hey, I don't know if this talent is good and
• 23:40
  it's like, hey, there's, there's situations in these delves where
• 23:44
  this poison cleansing totem is great or your roots are going to
• 23:48
  be good. But Zekvir is never going to
• 23:49
  demand that I use like a root totem.
• 23:52
  I'm mostly going to be OK, stun, disrupt the spider, get out of
• 23:57
  the the fear, make sure that I I don't have that, that I have a
• 24:01
  movement speed to get out of the frontal that he does.
• 24:06
  And roughly that's the that's going to be like make sure I do
• 24:09
  it in a way that I don't get a crazy overlap, which is, which
• 24:14
  is a different type of challenge, I think.
• 24:16
  But here's So if I'm somebody who is doing 8 Zek fears a week
• 24:20
  for my to fill my vault, I'm just going to wait for that good
• 24:23
  story in Fungal Folly where I can skip everything and I'm
• 24:26
  going to run that eight times and it's going to take about the
• 24:28
  same amount of time. Sure.
• 24:29
  But at that point. More variety of delves.
• 24:32
  I'm going to do whatever the easiest fastest delve is 8
• 24:34
  times. Yeah, but it doesn't.
• 24:37
  I don't see, I don't see how removing Zekfir makes.
• 24:42
  How does that? How is that better?
• 24:43
  How is spam running one easy delve 8 times different than
• 24:47
  spam running Zekfir 8 times? Fairpoint I mean, I guess.
• 24:51
  That's what they're going to do. Yeah.
• 24:53
  It's what they did to get to 8. Sorry.
• 24:55
  No, you're right. And I, I know this is, I'm
• 24:57
  getting a little bit more global in my thinking.
• 24:59
  And this I, I do think that one of my issues with delves this
• 25:02
  season is that it does kind of feel like it became giveaway
• 25:06
  here. And I can get into quite a few
• 25:09
  opinions on that. But I, I do think that part of
• 25:13
  the like delves are complicated because people do think about
• 25:17
  them in the mindset of this thing.
• 25:18
  I should be able to do, you know, in a couple hours, I feel
• 25:22
  to knock out everything I need to do.
• 25:24
  It should be fast. It should be easy.
• 25:25
  I did feel this a lot when they were nerfing them pretty heavily
• 25:28
  because people felt like they were overly challenging.
• 25:30
  I was like, but if that's supposed to be like, I think I
• 25:32
  said on the show, like if that's supposed to be at the level of
• 25:33
  like Mythic 2, then like that's actually kind of the level that
• 25:38
  it's supposed to be at. And I think that that's an issue
• 25:41
  that their Blizzard's going to have to reckon with overall is,
• 25:46
  you know, nobody. And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't
• 25:50
  think people, for example, approach Mythic Plus like that
• 25:52
  right where they're like, OK, well, I'm just going to like, I
• 25:54
  just want to fill out my great vault thing.
• 25:56
  So I'm just going to do this. Oh, maybe they do, maybe they
• 25:58
  do. I don't know what I'm talking.
• 26:00
  About Yeah, I ran 478 Blackbrook holds in Season 3.
• 26:03
  Fair enough. Yeah, 100% that's and I have run
• 26:07
  mythic 10 mist of Tunis I how many weeks in are we times that
• 26:11
  by 8? Fair enough, fair enough.
• 26:14
  I take him back 100%. That's what people do.
• 26:18
  So I will say that with the way that delves are random from
• 26:24
  day-to-day, the, the people who find that perfect delve, it's
• 26:28
  going to be different for for each person because there are
• 26:31
  people who like will find that perfect, the best delve in the
• 26:35
  week and they'll be online at that time during that day to do
• 26:39
  it and they'll get it done. But there'll be people who
• 26:41
  couldn't play that day and they'll find the next easiest
• 26:43
  one. Everybody is going to find the
• 26:45
  easiest path available to them, right?
• 26:49
  But it's going to it's going to have more variety by default
• 26:52
  because of of the way that the delves rotate and vary.
• 26:57
  So there's there's going to be some adjustment.
• 27:00
  It's not a perfect solution, but I don't want to get into some
• 27:03
  sort of Nirvana complex where it's like we couldn't find a
• 27:05
  perfect solution. So we're not going to do
• 27:06
  anything at all, I do think. Who does that benefit then?
• 27:10
  What? Who benefits from this?
• 27:12
  I think that the people who are doing Dells who are are going to
• 27:17
  find that, hey, the more, the more variety of the system is
• 27:24
  now being used and the they'll get they, they will get
• 27:29
  something from that, even though it's not the loot that they were
• 27:32
  after, they'll get the experience and I'm sorry.
• 27:35
  To talk. To somebody to say.
• 27:37
  You think people who hyper optimized and ran 8 sectors
• 27:41
  because it was fast are going to be happy now that they get to
• 27:43
  experience other delves? I think that they will be
• 27:47
  rewarded for the experience. I don't think they'll be happy
• 27:50
  for it, But I will tell you, there are people who got into
• 27:55
  this season of Mythic Plus and are like, this is way harder.
• 27:59
  This is garbage. Blizzard Drake, what the hell
• 28:02
  you've made, you've made it horrible.
• 28:04
  You've destroyed Mythic Plus. There will be people who will
• 28:07
  get into next season and will be like, what the hell, Blizzard?
• 28:09
  You've made it. You've made it easy.
• 28:11
  Everybody's getting everything. You've destroyed Mythic Plus.
• 28:14
  Do I think the people who optimize will ever be happy?
• 28:17
  No. Am I going to even argue that
• 28:21
  there will be a point where it's?
• 28:22
  Wrong with optimizing there's I don't think everybody I feel
• 28:27
  like people try to like put a negative connotation on min
• 28:30
  maxing and optimizing and I don't think we should I.
• 28:33
  Would never put Aiden. I just, I just want to know who
• 28:38
  wins when they take this option away, who wins from this?
• 28:43
  And, and the answer I think is nobody, because the people who
• 28:47
  weren't doing it don't care. They're going to keep doing what
• 28:50
  they were doing. And the people who were doing it
• 28:52
  are now just inconvenienced. And then I have to find the fast
• 28:55
  delve and they're going to run that fast delve instead.
• 28:58
  And like you said, if somebody can't get on that day, like,
• 29:00
  just like having push weeks, if you couldn't get on for a push
• 29:02
  week, well, I guess you're out of luck and you're going to run
• 29:04
  a slower 1. And now I don't, I just don't.
• 29:07
  Yeah, I, I'm going to change my answer from the beginning to I
• 29:10
  actually think it's a bad change.
• 29:12
  I think any change that doesn't have some group as a benefit
• 29:16
  from it when there is nobody being hurt by it, I think then
• 29:20
  that feels bad. I wouldn't be surprised to see
• 29:21
  this get reverted. I believe, I believe that there
• 29:24
  is a long term systemic issue with with everybody just running
• 29:30
  the beer fastest thing at the cost of every other piece of
• 29:36
  content, right? I believe that there is a cost
• 29:40
  in that that does affect the community overall.
• 29:44
  It is not immediate. And so the community is this
• 29:46
  little like yay, we found a way to cheat the system, right?
• 29:50
  And they will always try and cheat the system.
• 29:52
  There will always be speedrunners in every game that
• 29:55
  will glitch through walls. If they fix the wall, have they
• 29:58
  really helped anybody? No.
• 30:00
  The people who were going to glitz through the walls are just
• 30:02
  going to find a new wall to glitz through.
• 30:03
  And the people who weren't going to do it were ever going to do
• 30:05
  it. But like, you understand why the
• 30:07
  developers would fix that, right?
• 30:09
  Not to dogpile on Sean, but I think also like it did it's
• 30:14
  it's, I don't know numbers, but it's hard for me to really buy
• 30:17
  the argument that like Zac Fear's layer is not
• 30:20
  significantly different from other delves when like it was
• 30:24
  everyone was saying, oh, you just run Zac Fear's layer, just
• 30:27
  run Zac Fear's layer. Wowhead was doing articles about
• 30:29
  how Zac Fear's layer is the easiest way to get all these
• 30:31
  done. Like it was it was clearly a
• 30:32
  significant difference, right? Like this is not a like couple
• 30:36
  people are like, maybe you run Zexter's layer instead.
• 30:39
  Like it was like anyone with a keyboard who has ever considered
• 30:43
  min maxing was saying runs Zexter's layer.
• 30:46
  And I think when something gets that much like it, it when when
• 30:51
  there's that much of a difference that like it becomes
• 30:54
  a cultural norm, it starts to be harder to push back against.
• 30:57
  If you like it, like if if if you don't want to like like who?
• 31:05
  Who's gonna run other delves in in groups?
• 31:07
  If that's if everyone is saying just run Zac fears layer.
• 31:10
  It doesn't matter, there's solo content, run it by yourself.
• 31:12
  Sure, I mean, first of all, there's there's still you know,
• 31:14
  maybe I'm just I I I I take in a lot of pressure that I don't
• 31:17
  need, but like I I I did feel a little like if I was doing other
• 31:21
  delves. It felt weird, like I felt like
• 31:22
  I was doing something wrong. I felt like I was incorrect for
• 31:25
  not just running Zac fears layer, but also like not
• 31:27
  everyone does run delve solo right?
• 31:29
  They're they're, I think maybe this has changed when it stopped
• 31:32
  being like face roll cake if you're in a group and I only, I
• 31:35
  only run delve solo, but like I I assume there are still some
• 31:38
  people. I'm looking for group doing
• 31:40
  delves and I cannot imagine that there were any major delve
• 31:44
  groups that weren't either doing bountifuls or Zac Fear's layer
• 31:48
  on repeat, but I don't know. Ran.
• 31:50
  I ran 1 today and for the record it's August 9th.
• 31:53
  October 9th and to date I have never killed Zac.
• 31:56
  Fear. So fascinating.
• 31:58
  It's fun. I couldn't, it was too hard.
• 32:00
  Oh, wait, Sean, I'll do. Zac, fear with you.
• 32:02
  It's fun. Yeah.
• 32:03
  It's OK. I tried once.
• 32:04
  I don't need to now. There's no reward in it.
• 32:06
  Why would I bother? I'll wait till I.
• 32:08
  I'll wait till I'm 636 and I'll come back in one shot over.
• 32:11
  The time over the time, John, I can, I can zoom around, I can
• 32:13
  fell rush over to the little spider cell.
• 32:17
  It generally feels that everybody understands that Zach
• 32:21
  Fairs layer was the the fastest, most efficient way to get the
• 32:24
  loot. Nobody's arguing that the other
• 32:27
  delves were somehow less fun, they were just less efficient.
• 32:31
  So this is an argument about like, how much efficiency do
• 32:35
  they want to do they want to put into it?
• 32:38
  How lopsided do they want to to make this this particular
• 32:41
  gearing path? And at that point, like, who
• 32:45
  does it hurt? Like I guess nobody in
• 32:48
  particular immediately, but like, does it mean that like if
• 32:54
  they had said, OK, you know what, we'll leave this season 2
• 32:58
  when we switch out Zek Veer for whoever the next one is, they go
• 33:03
  change it, then that could be something.
• 33:05
  And then just season 1 was degenerate.
• 33:07
  But I guarantee you immediately people will be like they've made
• 33:11
  season 2 delves way harder. I used to be able to punch out
• 33:14
  and we would have the exact same conversation again, just with an
• 33:17
  entire season of president and set.
• 33:20
  So like, I don't believe there was any way to sort this that
• 33:26
  would have made people happier and would have put the needle
• 33:30
  where they want it to be in terms of like speed to get
• 33:33
  through this. OK, I just don't.
• 33:36
  OK, I, I like, I get that no change would there's no change
• 33:40
  that could have been made that would make people happy.
• 33:42
  But I think that reason stands that nobody is happy with this
• 33:45
  change. Are you happy they made this
• 33:47
  change? Does this give you joy?
• 33:49
  How does it make your life better?
• 33:51
  And the answer is you're indifferent because it has no
• 33:54
  impact on your life. Elizabeth put all of his work
• 33:57
  into making a fun little game for us, and I think that we
• 33:59
  should explore it to its fullest.
• 34:01
  Yeah. OK, stories Sean.
• 34:02
  They have cute little things going on.
• 34:04
  You're gonna be really upset. Like I'm about done running
• 34:07
  delves unless it's on a rat alt that has no gear because they
• 34:10
  have done value to. Me I'm I'm done running delves
• 34:14
  like I I have seen people sex with me.
• 34:17
  No, because it because I think of people more other than
• 34:21
  myself. John, if you really want the
• 34:23
  answer, I'm sorry, OK, right. And I don't mean to say it as a
• 34:27
  backhanded answer. I just think of like, hey, if
• 34:29
  delves they've dealt irrelevant to me and this is a situation,
• 34:33
  why would they make those changes, right?
• 34:35
  It is faster for somebody who is running like 65 level level 80s
• 34:41
  to just hammer them, hammer it through.
• 34:44
  But as we're going to be talking about, we want.
• 34:46
  To tell them that that's not how they should play.
• 34:49
  Well, the pressure becomes the pressure becomes that that is
• 34:52
  the way to play as again this this goes into the next change.
• 34:57
  So talking about the next change that they did, they change the
• 35:02
  way that you get the time walking quest.
• 35:07
  Instead of it granting 500 every time you complete it, it's now
• 35:11
  500 the first time for the rewarding badges, but only 200
• 35:16
  badges subsequent times. What does this mean?
• 35:20
  That alts aren't as efficient as at being able to farm up these
• 35:27
  badges right And then like it used to be that I would have how
• 35:35
  many thousands on one character, how many thousands on another
• 35:38
  character and never to and never could I pull it together.
• 35:41
  But we're now in the World of War bands, so everybody can pull
• 35:44
  it together. If somebody doesn't have like
• 35:47
  10s of thousands of these badges, it's because they were
• 35:52
  not doing it on alts. But if every, if every alt was I
• 35:57
  could get 500, then the developers have to go like, OK,
• 36:03
  what's the rate that they can earn this?
• 36:05
  What do we need to cost these things as we're going into
• 36:10
  refreshing all of these holidays?
• 36:12
  And then if you don't have 65 alts or whatever the cap is, I
• 36:16
  think it's 65 now you're behind. So you should be doing 65 if
• 36:22
  you're 65 volts, if you're a collector.
• 36:24
  And that becomes a pressure on, on other people to be like, hey,
• 36:27
  I need to run up my alts. All those people who like were
• 36:32
  doing the holiday bosses on like, I need to have an army of
• 36:35
  alts to get my best chance. And they made the same sort of
• 36:38
  adjustment where it's like, hey, first time on your your account,
• 36:41
  here's your here's your best chance.
• 36:44
  Subsequent times, yeah, you'll still have a chance, but it's
• 36:46
  don't worry, it's not worth talking about.
• 36:48
  It's a it's a similar sort of setup where it's like, listen,
• 36:52
  whatever alt you want to make your focus or whatever character
• 36:57
  you want to make your focus or group of characters you want to
• 37:00
  make your focus, this is the time investment you can put in.
• 37:04
  We are not going to to put it to a situation where you should be
• 37:08
  able to like reasonably and reasonably.
• 37:11
  It's different for other people feel you need to maintain a much
• 37:16
  larger amount because it is that much more efficient to do it in
• 37:19
  that manner. And you could make that
• 37:21
  argument. It's less an argument for The
• 37:23
  Dells, but it's definitely an argument for this.
• 37:25
  I think this is a slightly different issue because this
• 37:28
  like and Blizzard has been really clear since BlizzCon.
• 37:30
  Like they said this so many times it was crazy that they
• 37:33
  when they were building war bands they wanted to make alting
• 37:37
  easier but not beneficial right? That, like having alts does not
• 37:41
  make you suffer more, but it also doesn't mean that you are
• 37:44
  having an easier time going through the game.
• 37:47
  So we think that this change makes a lot of sense on that
• 37:51
  with that mindset and frankly is is still fairly high.
• 37:55
  But I I mean, I don't really care.
• 37:57
  I don't time walk. So I think that this is more
• 38:02
  than balancing alt levels and making it so that like you're
• 38:06
  saying, people don't look at also, I think has, or at least I
• 38:09
  don't know if they've like verbally said this, but it's
• 38:12
  been very clear with their actions.
• 38:13
  They don't want us grinding anymore, right?
• 38:15
  Like they don't want I can't RAF levels of like grind for people
• 38:22
  playing. They want people to feel like
• 38:25
  they can log off after a, you know, a reasonable number of
• 38:28
  hours in a week and not feel like intense FOMO and not feel
• 38:32
  like they're gonna get kicked out of their Guild.
• 38:34
  As long as it's as many hours as they decide you should be doing
• 38:37
  in delves of. Course.
• 38:41
  Don, sorry. We've moved on.
• 38:43
  We've moved on, no. Valid.
• 38:46
  You're so right. I we, we can, we can, we can dig
• 38:49
  in. I have so many thoughts on
• 38:50
  delves and how they're balancing delves and how delves affect the
• 38:52
  gear system. Don, we can go so crazy.
• 38:54
  We can talk about this for hours.
• 38:55
  We should have a delve. We should have a deep Delve
• 38:57
  episode. I'll I'll delve into the delves
• 39:00
  my man, I'm not. I have some thoughts on delves.
• 39:04
  OK, yeah. I mean, I guess this is I don't
• 39:06
  care what, I have 140,000 of these tokens already.
• 39:10
  Who? OK, I'm going to buy everything
• 39:13
  when the vendor opens. I think that there's a there's a
• 39:19
  couple of things with the currencies that they have to
• 39:21
  consider, right. It is how much is already out
• 39:23
  there. They're going to refresh all of
• 39:25
  the the holiday vendors, including time walking.
• 39:29
  We're going to be getting new, new mounts that are coming out
• 39:31
  with that. As it stood, I would have like
• 39:35
  at least 10,000. I think the, the amounts
• 39:39
  themselves were like 5000 or something like that.
• 39:42
  And at one point they put out two mounts and I was like,
• 39:44
  that's it. Every time after I'm going to
• 39:46
  have at least enough to buy 22 mounts.
• 39:49
  And Blizzard has all this information.
• 39:51
  They're like, well, Manny's got his 10,000 set aside.
• 39:54
  Sean's got his 140,000 set aside, but he doesn't really
• 39:58
  buy. So let's like weigh that
• 40:00
  differently. Lex has got like 50 million set
• 40:04
  aside. What in the world was she she
• 40:05
  doing? She really liked Legion time
• 40:07
  walking that one time and we couldn't stop her.
• 40:10
  And then you say. The words I don't do time
• 40:12
  walking and was like that's let's let's let's say that's a
• 40:15
  lie. Yeah, I mean we have to expect
• 40:18
  tuning like this in a war bound world.
• 40:20
  Like we talked like they, they, they say right in the post like
• 40:23
  they did it going in with reputation.
• 40:25
  You know, you you get repped once a week and that is that is
• 40:28
  a phenomenal change because that means you don't get to do stuff
• 40:31
  on your main once it's lap Max level.
• 40:33
  And you know, you're like, I don't want to we want to do Halo
• 40:35
  fall. I don't need bountiful keys
• 40:36
  anymore. I'll just run this rat alt and
• 40:38
  still get the Rep from my account.
• 40:40
  And this is the same thing. I'm going to do time walking on
• 40:42
  my main, maybe one or two alts and that's it.
• 40:46
  I don't get the full 500. OK, no big deal.
• 40:49
  I'm really that upset about it. I will just run another alt and
• 40:52
  run another, although I have to run another alt.
• 40:54
  Anybody who has the number of vaults that would be like in the
• 40:57
  in the realm of like if they get all 500, they're going to wreck
• 41:00
  the economy already has that many badges and owns everything
• 41:03
  anyway. So this is a this effects
• 41:06
  nobody. This is just a a change to say I
• 41:10
  don't. Think so the the the the people
• 41:12
  who are like super super into it but joined later.
• 41:16
  They're now behind all the people who were super into it
• 41:19
  but joined earlier. And then if they.
• 41:21
  Did a reset. Everybody who had the stuff
• 41:24
  would feel so disadvantaged. This is again another situation
• 41:27
  where. You can't be ahead and behind in
• 41:31
  collecting content that doesn't go away.
• 41:33
  It's non limited, non time limited content.
• 41:35
  You're not a header behind, you just you're going to get it
• 41:37
  eventually. Just relax.
• 41:38
  People, people will constantly and.
• 41:42
  This is why I follow everybody on Twitter.
• 41:43
  I follow three people. Me, Lex and Dax.
• 41:47
  That's it. People will constantly have FOMO
• 41:50
  though. People have constantly have
• 41:53
  FOMO. They will.
• 41:54
  They just realized he wasn't on the list.
• 41:55
  No, no, it's fine. I like respond to Dax's tweets
• 41:58
  and then like you see it in the replies, it's good.
• 42:01
  I'm totally cool with this. I'm not going to go and cry
• 42:05
  anyways. So we were just like saying
• 42:08
  like, give me a second, I've got some in my eye.
• 42:10
  Aw, Manny, no, I follow you, Manny, I follow you.
• 42:15
  Like there's, there are so many people in so many different
• 42:19
  positions. It is such a balancing act
• 42:22
  because there's so many legacy issues that you have to take it
• 42:26
  take into account, you do need to address that.
• 42:32
  And like, I'm sure that's why in the upcoming event that we'll be
• 42:36
  talking about, there's a new currency.
• 42:39
  People keep complaining and be like, listen, why do you keep
• 42:41
  making new currencies? It's because because the old one
• 42:45
  has been devalued so greatly that if we used it, people would
• 42:49
  walk in on the first hour and never need to go back.
• 42:54
  And why in the world are we spending our time designing
• 42:56
  that? There is guys at some.
• 42:58
  Point they have design the content to be fun, so they go
• 43:01
  back. Sean Minmaxers don't give a crap
• 43:05
  about fun. Min Max is because.
• 43:09
  Because we find min maxing to be fun, we generate our own fun.
• 43:13
  We don't need Blizzard to make it for us, we will make it
• 43:16
  ourselves. Well, if they do a new currency,
• 43:19
  if they do a new system. I'm for a new currency by the
• 43:21
  way. I think the new currency is
• 43:22
  good. Yeah, I know, I know.
• 43:24
  But I'm, I'm responding to like your, I believe that people
• 43:28
  would hold your, your, your position, right?
• 43:32
  And I love min maxing. I love, like trying to, to do as
• 43:36
  much as I can within the limitations of what I can do
• 43:39
  right? And I will find fun if they
• 43:43
  bring back an old currency, if they create a new currency, if
• 43:46
  they have a currency that degrades over time, I will find
• 43:50
  the fun in min maxing that. So in that way, it doesn't
• 43:55
  matter what they do. The min maxers are going to find
• 43:57
  their fun, right? For the people who want to
• 44:02
  engage with with this, they have to look at the legacy issues.
• 44:07
  They also have to look at seeing like, oh, this dark moon fair
• 44:10
  ride gives you this many tickets for spending this much time and
• 44:14
  this dark moon fair ride gives you this many tickets for this
• 44:17
  much time. So do we cap it so you can only
• 44:21
  do 11 each time Dark Moon Fair comes up?
• 44:25
  Or do we allow people to just keep doing the same thing over
• 44:27
  and over again because that's where they find the fun?
• 44:30
  And then it becomes like a, oh, shoot, we had somebody who
• 44:33
  stayed up 82 hours straight just doing the same thing over and
• 44:37
  over again. And maybe this wasn't the best
• 44:40
  thing we could have done because now they've ballooned the ticket
• 44:43
  market or something like that. So like this, always these
• 44:45
  things. And the other thing about an MMO
• 44:47
  is that like nothing like people are going to inherently feel
• 44:51
  pressure off of each other, right?
• 44:52
  So like you mid Max are people can be like, Oh well, I enjoy
• 44:57
  mid maxing. But then the rest of us who are
• 44:59
  normal with normal brains but just want to be able to keep up
• 45:02
  with you guys in content so we can run mythic plus.
• 45:05
  We'll be like, well, I guess I have to do that too then since
• 45:08
  we're all grinding, I'll do mythic plus.
• 45:11
  As long as you're nice and friendly and you don't mind when
• 45:13
  I die 50 times because I don't know what I'm doing, I'll do
• 45:15
  mythic plus with you. DM me, hit a girl up.
• 45:19
  I tried. You told me you were sick.
• 45:20
  You faked an illness. Yeah, but that's because she
• 45:23
  just wants to leave you to your 10s and stuff.
• 45:26
  We can do. We can swap.
• 45:28
  Germs. And you can sleep all day and I
• 45:30
  can go off and like, look at trees like I want to, and then
• 45:34
  we can talk about who's faking what.
• 45:36
  All right, let's set up a fascon selection.
• 45:38
  I can swap germs and I can spend 18 hours a day.
• 45:42
  I don't know why but swap germs. This sounds so wrong, but we
• 45:47
  were talking. About.
• 45:48
  Legacy content. Not what I meant.
• 45:52
  You didn't start it though. Anyways, I'm certain it's not
• 45:55
  what Alexa meant either. Legacy content is something that
• 46:00
  Wow needs to deal with. They have to keep that bound.
• 46:03
  But the great part of it is that that means that you have a
• 46:06
  legacy. And the big thing that is coming
• 46:10
  up is that we get to celebrate that legacy.
• 46:13
  They announced that the WOW 20th anniversary patch 11.0 point 5
• 46:19
  is going to be going live October 22nd in the NA, October
• 46:27
  23rd in EUI don't actually, we do have some people who are
• 46:32
  listening to us from Australia. October actually 23rd for you
• 46:37
  guys too. So 24th in in Southeast Asia.
• 46:44
  So this is it guys 20 years of World of Warcraft 30 years of
• 46:51
  Warcraft as a franchise in general.
• 46:53
  This is one of like definitely one of the games that is so dear
• 46:58
  to me and we get to talk about like where were you?
• 47:01
  Where were you back when this anniversary?
• 47:05
  They have an entire patch for it that this is the 11 point O .5
• 47:10
  patch. We have the event going from
• 47:14
  October 22nd all the way through to January 6th.
• 47:18
  This is going for through the entirety of the year into the
• 47:23
  new year. Probably January 6th is the
• 47:27
  Tuesday when they get back to the office.
• 47:31
  They're going to. Do you think that's 11.1 or do
• 47:36
  you think it'll be 11 point O .7?
• 47:38
  5.1 That's going to be like months.
• 47:40
  I think it's 11.1 because it's six weeks.
• 47:44
  I would. I would if I would a betting
• 47:45
  man. Yeah. 11 point O .7 is likely to
• 47:51
  be probably. Is I don't think there's a .7 on
• 47:55
  the road map, is there? Is there a road map period I?
• 47:59
  Think so? Go.
• 48:00
  Grab that. Go grab that road map that
• 48:02
  you're thinking about. I don't believe there is a there
• 48:06
  is a general road map for the War Within though.
• 48:11
  I'd love to see a road map for 2025.
• 48:14
  That would be great. I believe that they they did.
• 48:17
  Say what are? You talking about?
• 48:20
  Yeah, sorry, it's it's a math. It's hard.
• 48:24
  I'm too busy trying to kill Zekfir.
• 48:26
  There is there's a 2024 road map, but there is no 2025 Rd.
• 48:32
  Map. So does that 2024 road map say
• 48:35
  anything about 11 point O .7? Nope, it says 11 point O .5 in
• 48:39
  autumn. There's no winter.
• 48:40
  Winter I guess will be. They started with winter, so
• 48:42
  that'll probably the start of 2025.
• 48:44
  Yeah, that would be December 21st technically I guess is a
• 48:47
  winter and just putting that out ahead to be like coming in the
• 48:51
  new year sort of thing. Yeah, just ahead of winter would
• 48:54
  be it would be pretty cool. So I could see an 11 point O .7
• 49:03
  in December, but that is a very short time frame to then go into
• 49:11
  11.1 in January. So I could also just say, say
• 49:15
  based On this date that we're just going straight into 11
• 49:17
  point. 0.7 went live on the internal dev servers one month
• 49:22
  ago so. It's like.
• 49:24
  The real maybe I like internalize that and thought it
• 49:27
  was my own brilliant idea, but I said saw that we'll go.
• 49:31
  Thank you, thank you, Patch sniffer.
• 49:35
  Credit the patch sniffer. Thank you, Patch sniffer.
• 49:37
  Yeah. So that still could happen and
• 49:43
  then the event ends. We go into 11 point 0.7 in
• 49:49
  January, but that seems like really long like you're saying,
• 49:51
  Lex. So I would expect go ahead I.
• 49:55
  Think the 11 weeks might work with the holiday and it being
• 49:59
  the anniversary patch that could like justify it maybe?
• 50:01
  To be fair, I have been saying, I'm like I think I said on the
• 50:04
  show that I am worried that Blizzard is like pushing their
• 50:08
  devs too hard. And I want them to know that if
• 50:11
  they need to take more time, that's OK and they should take
• 50:12
  more time. So like, you know, to be fair,
• 50:15
  if that's what they need, that's what they need, right?
• 50:17
  Like I would rather 11.1, like, you know, yeah, I'll be a little
• 50:20
  sad and I'll just, I'll learn how to do high level mythics.
• 50:23
  I'll actually get to Keystone Master, which is scary, but like
• 50:28
  if, if they need 11 weeks between 11 point O .5 and 11
• 50:33
  point O .7 and then they need 11 point O .7 before they go into
• 50:35
  11.1, like that's OK. Like genuinely like I, I, let me
• 50:39
  put this on record, refer back to this if I ever whine about
• 50:42
  length again, like do it. I would much rather that than
• 50:45
  Apache or the buggy 11.1, so whatever.
• 50:49
  Happened. The other part is, yeah, the
• 50:51
  other part is that we are getting a raid with this.
• 50:54
  The we have the anniversary raid, which isn't a full on
• 50:57
  raid. I don't believe I've seen
• 50:59
  anything to say that the item level with this raid that only
• 51:02
  goes up to 15 people. Right, it's it's item.
• 51:06
  It's par for par with Nurbar Palace.
• 51:08
  Yeah, but it's not a higher level is what?
• 51:11
  It's the same. It's same here.
• 51:13
  Yeah, and it's like 15 people at at cap. 10 to 15, yeah.
• 51:17
  Yeah, right. So and it doesn't have a mythic
• 51:21
  mode, it's just too heroic. LFR, normal and heroic.
• 51:25
  Yes. So there is no mythic level.
• 51:27
  We're not going to see full progress of this.
• 51:29
  This isn't meant to be a in between in between tier, nor do
• 51:33
  I believe that this raid is supposed to like count as like a
• 51:36
  hey you got a new raid so you can wait longer for another
• 51:39
  raid. No, definitely not.
• 51:41
  Definitely Yeah, It's a fun event.
• 51:43
  It's ketchup gear. It's a Ketchup gear raid in the
• 51:45
  middle. It'll probably be face roll easy
• 51:49
  because by the time it comes most of us will already be in,
• 51:52
  if not full heroic gear close to it anyway.
• 51:55
  Yeah, for the teams that actually raid it into Heroic,
• 51:57
  yes, for sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah, sorry.
• 52:00
  Yeah, if you, but if you, no matter what, you if you are a
• 52:03
  team that only raids normal, by the time this comes out you'll
• 52:06
  be full normal gear because it will have been eight weeks of
• 52:09
  rating normal and doing your delves for your free heroic
• 52:13
  stuff. I think that this is going to be
• 52:17
  something where nobody even maybe, no, I'm not gonna sell
• 52:20
  that. I'm not selling that.
• 52:22
  I understand where you're you're fishing.
• 52:24
  You have to understand professional.
• 52:26
  I'm trying. To I'm trying to like focus on
• 52:28
  my breathing so I don't sniffle into the camera because of my
• 52:30
  fake illness. This episode is derailed.
• 52:34
  OK, anyways, I think that maybe some teams might actually push
• 52:38
  into her work if it is significantly easier.
• 52:40
  They might feel like inclined to like give that push and maybe
• 52:44
  that'll allow teams that are like if they are pushing hard to
• 52:50
  like then be able to take that gear as an additional leg up in
• 52:53
  their progress. But also after going for eight
• 52:56
  weeks with like the other adjustment that came in, I, I
• 53:01
  feel like this, this tear is going to be what we're dealing
• 53:04
  with now with Narobar Palace is going to be all pretty much
• 53:08
  done. This is going to be, in my mind,
• 53:11
  a Ruby sanctum sort of thing. For the people who are just
• 53:14
  bored and want to raid. Here's a Here's a fun little
• 53:16
  RAID that you can do quick. I am sad about the numbers.
• 53:19
  I think that I think our Ray team is more than 15 people.
• 53:22
  So like we're not gonna be able to do it or we'd have to sit
• 53:24
  people. But we don't like doing that
• 53:26
  trash. We're gonna have to split it too
• 53:28
  for sure. Yeah, I'll ask I guess, if it's
• 53:30
  ten. Yeah, it's an awkward number,
• 53:33
  but I I mean, at the very least of all of art, it sounds fun and
• 53:37
  cool. I never got to do Black Rock
• 53:38
  deaths because I was a child during the time that was out.
• 53:42
  You're still a child. I'm 28.
• 53:44
  I risk my case. Beyond that, we also getting
• 53:49
  time walking. This is the time walking classic
• 53:53
  that I'm really glad to see that come back.
• 53:56
  I gotta assume that they rework these dungeons a little bit so
• 54:02
  that people can run through it a little bit smoother.
• 54:04
  It's is it the old school versions like classic true to
• 54:07
  classic? Yeah, it's classic Dead Minds.
• 54:10
  I can't remember the other ones, but it's definitely the old
• 54:14
  versions. It's not the Cataclysm ones.
• 54:16
  You know what, this might be the the time walking week that I
• 54:20
  skipped the most because I can't stand BC it's.
• 54:23
  Amazing. Classic Dead Mines is my
• 54:25
  kitchen. And I can't.
• 54:27
  I wouldn't want to. Manny, how do you not like BC
• 54:29
  Time walking? It is the best.
• 54:31
  It's so fast. Now rap time walking is the is
• 54:35
  fast. So is BC.
• 54:38
  Those dungeons are long. And wide and take way too long.
• 54:41
  Shattered shattered halls. Man I love BC time walking
• 54:45
  that's didn't just tell Jay hit for me because BC was like when
• 54:49
  I was the happiest. Maybe Wrath was when I was the
• 54:52
  happiest. BC was when I was with BC was
• 54:54
  when I was the soberest. Anyway, that's not even true
• 54:59
  either. OK, OK.
• 55:01
  Yeah, we're. Going to have a talk after the
• 55:03
  episode I. Love for a fact that somebody is
• 55:05
  listening to this show that I lived with during Burning
• 55:08
  Crusade and they're right now going bulls bullshit.
• 55:13
  That was the sober. Bull Ridge.
• 55:16
  We used to have, we had a taxi driver that lived in our area,
• 55:21
  Special shadow to John Lee. Hope you're still rocking it.
• 55:24
  Who we would call at like two or three in the morning to go pick
• 55:28
  us up cigarettes and McDonald's and drive it to our apartment
• 55:33
  because we were playing Warcraft.
• 55:35
  Sober activity. You guys, well, we weren't up
• 55:38
  till 3:00 in the morning just playing Warcraft.
• 55:41
  You guys both met him. He did those keys with us the
• 55:43
  other day, my friend. Wow.
• 55:44
  Yeah. Hi.
• 55:46
  Buddy. I'm gonna get just more shot
• 55:49
  dirt when next time we do keys. Yeah, we've known each other
• 55:51
  since we were 10 years old. He stole my Marvel cards to.
• 55:56
  Him, honestly, he made AW for him.
• 55:58
  And he is screaming at his car stereo right now, so I say that.
• 56:04
  They were. The cards were in dispute.
• 56:07
  We'll leave it at that, OK? OK.
• 56:09
  The big thing that everybody is really happy about, of course,
• 56:13
  is the transmog sets that are coming back.
• 56:16
  These are the Tier 2 remastered sets for the classes that
• 56:22
  weren't around for Tier 2. They are getting in sets that
• 56:25
  would be like that the Envision would have existed at that time,
• 56:28
  but brought up to today's standards.
• 56:30
  Looks amazing. They did the like little post on
• 56:35
  social media where it's like when you realize that Wow is 20
• 56:38
  years old and it's the paladin getting older, but it's also the
• 56:41
  paladin's armor upressing. And I'm like, that's a real nice
• 56:45
  way to show off that armor. So big, big W for the Wow social
• 56:49
  team. I they also have like a number
• 56:55
  of different events. There's a bunch of stuff.
• 56:56
  If you guys want to know everything, we have it in the
• 56:59
  show notes. But just quickly number one
• 57:04
  thing that you're looking forward to, Lex.
• 57:07
  Deadlines, you crazy fool. That is so exciting.
• 57:11
  That is top of my list. I'm going to do that so much and
• 57:14
  I'm going to be such a nostalgia hit, OK?
• 57:16
  All right, all right, John, other than classic deadlines.
• 57:20
  So deadlines other than classic deadlines.
• 57:24
  I'm looking forward to the raid. I think it's going to be a lot
• 57:27
  of fun. I'm going to put together A12
• 57:28
  main strike force and blast through it every day or once a
• 57:32
  week, every week. And just have some vibes in old
• 57:35
  BRD and I'm definitely down with that time walking.
• 57:38
  I'm going to probably this will be my big alt push for levelling
• 57:42
  because those dungeons, they get me right in the fields.
• 57:46
  So Lex, if you need any friends to blast time walking with, just
• 57:50
  let me know. Well, there's a lot to
• 57:52
  celebrate. There's a lot to.
• 57:53
  Mount showcase. Dance off.
• 57:57
  He got your one. Yeah, no, I'm just trying to
• 58:00
  pick one of the other things in here that I'm not going to do it
• 58:02
  all that I'm excited for. To somebody who doesn't like
• 58:04
  dungeons and raids, feels like they're included in the show,
• 58:07
  but I'm really also looking forward to the showing off
• 58:11
  special toys that I've earned at the Bizarre.
• 58:15
  I'll pick one because I am genuinely excited for the
• 58:20
  spiritual successor to the Secrets of Azerov that is going
• 58:23
  to be started up there. It is like I think kind of
• 58:26
  tongue in cheek. You are a customer service
• 58:29
  person. You have to deal with the issues
• 58:31
  that people bring to you and I love that concept.
• 58:34
  And so that's the spiritual successor for the Secrets of
• 58:37
  Azerov. I think that is going to be
• 58:39
  cool. I loved when streamers were like
• 58:41
  trying to figure it out and then like the next one would come.
• 58:45
  I caught up after the fact and was trying to like I, I just
• 58:49
  basically was like, OK, you know what?
• 58:50
  I watched 1 streamer and they were like, I'm gonna try and
• 58:53
  figure this out. And then I'm gonna like refer to
• 58:56
  like the guide and they would go through and they'd be like,
• 58:59
  where the hell am I supposed to go on this bridge and then look
• 59:02
  back this way and look back that way.
• 59:03
  Go back and be like, OK, I give up biggest or you're, you're in
• 59:07
  chat. Where the hell am I supposed to
• 59:08
  go? And so that was a lot of fun.
• 59:10
  I love those. Those events that I like will
• 59:12
  remember that to this day. That was a lot of fun to watch
• 59:16
  people do that. So yeah, I do.
• 59:20
  I'm surprised. I, I do have one, so I'm, I'm
• 59:23
  hyped. I'm pretty hyped for the 20th
• 59:25
  anniversary. I legitimately think there's
• 59:27
  something for everyone. I was being facetious, obviously
• 59:29
  with my joke about the things that I'm not interested in and
• 59:32
  and pretending I was. I am glad that there was
• 59:34
  something for everyone, but I am worried.
• 59:37
  I have a concern. It's been reported that the
• 59:41
  acquisition of the new currency is currently quite slow.
• 59:46
  If at the end of this 11 weeks I haven't had the ability to earn
• 59:52
  enough currency to buy everything, I'm going to be very
• 59:56
  disappointed. They.
• 59:57
  Have catch up mechanics. It's Blizzard.
• 59:59
  They're they love a catch up mechanic and their favorite
• 1:00:02
  activity there. I I swear to God there's an
• 1:00:03
  entire team that just working on developing catch up mechanics at
• 1:00:06
  any given time. I'll, I'll address this because
• 1:00:10
  you brought it up, but like once you hit a particular amount of
• 1:00:14
  the currency, all of those little daily events start giving
• 1:00:17
  you extra currency like you get you hit break points where you
• 1:00:20
  start getting more currency faster.
• 1:00:23
  So I suspect that it should be OK.
• 1:00:28
  I also think that I. Thought there was a daily cap
• 1:00:30
  that were. You worried about?
• 1:00:31
  I didn't even think of that. I guess hypothetical.
• 1:00:33
  Yeah, but it's a rolling cap. You're going to.
• 1:00:34
  Set the cap low enough that you can't earn everything right if I
• 1:00:38
  cap every day. I need to know that I can buy
• 1:00:41
  everything at the end. Oh, OK.
• 1:00:44
  I mean like. You could jump on to the PTR and
• 1:00:46
  since you've, you've you seem concerned about this, then I
• 1:00:49
  suggest that you look to see because probably people have
• 1:00:53
  have already kind of done the math on like how much everything
• 1:00:57
  is and how much the the daily cap is.
• 1:00:59
  And now you know, the exact dates of months.
• 1:01:03
  So I feel like it's likely that you're going to be able to get
• 1:01:06
  everything. But we will.
• 1:01:08
  He just said he doesn't. Want to do math, Manny?
• 1:01:11
  He has a calculator. Sean's all.
• 1:01:12
  About using the tools. So he hates me, so Sean's going
• 1:01:16
  to do that. He's going to.
• 1:01:17
  Let you know take. That why you're making me do
• 1:01:21
  this? No, because you brought.
• 1:01:23
  You brought up a. Concern that you're valid, that
• 1:01:27
  you feel is valid. Because I just want to be
• 1:01:30
  efficient. No, no.
• 1:01:33
  I'm going to. I'm delegating the work because
• 1:01:36
  I also like to be efficient. I'm not even going to run them
• 1:01:39
  anymore so. So.
• 1:01:42
  John, you're. Going to, you're going to do the
• 1:01:43
  math. You're going to find out.
• 1:01:45
  Let me know before tomorrow afternoon.
• 1:01:48
  I'm just going to complain about it on.
• 1:01:50
  Twitter No, no, you, you let me know we're.
• 1:01:53
  Going to put in an edit that says you can't earn enough and
• 1:01:57
  wait. Till somebody corrects me.
• 1:01:59
  Because the only thing people like more than complaining is
• 1:02:02
  correcting somebody who's wrong. Do it.
• 1:02:05
  Do it. Sean, if you mic go do it,
• 1:02:08
  you'll get you'll get the answer before the end of the episode.
• 1:02:10
  OK, you're right. You're right.
• 1:02:12
  It is the best way. To find the answer to something,
• 1:02:15
  make a very bold, very wrong statement about it.
• 1:02:18
  You'll be corrected. Yeah, so lot to.
• 1:02:22
  Celebrate, but we also want to take the time to celebrate the
• 1:02:26
  people who are supporting us at this show.
• 1:02:28
  Thank you to all of our patrons for your patronage.
• 1:02:32
  Fast will always be free, but if you enjoy the content we
• 1:02:35
  produce, please consider supporting us over at our
• 1:02:39
  Patreon that is patreon.com/fa. Zed because I'm Canadian Zed,
• 1:02:44
  not Z going into the next part we have we have three more
• 1:02:50
  topics we're. We're only.
• 1:02:54
  Going to be the the next ones. Are pretty fast and we're going
• 1:02:56
  to do the next two OK yeah, we're not really going to talk
• 1:02:59
  about this class tuning aren't we?
• 1:03:00
  I was really going to we're. Slowing down.
• 1:03:03
  This is why this was Jonah's beats a long as elemental shaman
• 1:03:07
  is dead stop. OK.
• 1:03:11
  Sean, take us through the last aspects that we finally got this
• 1:03:15
  week. All right, we finally got
• 1:03:16
  Zalatat's. Bargain devoured how this works?
• 1:03:21
  There's a healing absorb placed on everybody in the party.
• 1:03:24
  If you don't heal it off or dispel it before it expires,
• 1:03:28
  after 15 seconds it explodes and heals the enemies you're
• 1:03:31
  fighting. If you do heal it off or dispel
• 1:03:34
  it in that amount of time, then you get health and crit for 20
• 1:03:39
  seconds. Find a shaman friend and run
• 1:03:42
  with them this week because poison cleansing totem can clear
• 1:03:45
  it every time. So good because shaman has not
• 1:03:47
  been meta. Enough this.
• 1:03:49
  This season. It's good.
• 1:03:51
  They're eating good. They're eating good.
• 1:03:52
  This. Season waking up every day and I
• 1:03:53
  was like, God give them give. Something to the shamans, Yeah,
• 1:03:58
  I mean every class. Has a way they can deal with
• 1:04:00
  this. Just drink a health potion 5
• 1:04:01
  head but because it'll heal off the healing absorb.
• 1:04:07
  But yeah, it's that's the that's the short answer.
• 1:04:11
  Bring a shaman poison cleansing totem.
• 1:04:14
  I think all of the healers can dispel it.
• 1:04:15
  It's not a healer affix, but the healer can deal with it easier
• 1:04:20
  than anyone else. No, you got a, You got a.
• 1:04:23
  Shaman it doesn't matter what role because the because like
• 1:04:28
  unless you are a priest, unless you are a priest and everybody
• 1:04:31
  is stacked together for that massive spell.
• 1:04:33
  Literally the shaman is the fastest way, the easiest way,
• 1:04:37
  like the least commitment. It's like it's not even close.
• 1:04:40
  It's ridiculous. This affix basically is like
• 1:04:45
  afflicted, except that it's on the player and not on a separate
• 1:04:50
  character. So it's so it's so free if I if
• 1:04:56
  you're running from 2:00 to 12:00 like this, this seems like
• 1:05:00
  the push week. The overlaps aren't aren't an
• 1:05:03
  issue like we have had in previous weeks, because you walk
• 1:05:06
  around with it. If you are anybody who has any
• 1:05:11
  kind of Leech, you're already working against it from the
• 1:05:14
  second it drops in any kind of dispel.
• 1:05:18
  Use a potion 5 head like you're you're saying that Sean's just a
• 1:05:21
  tip for this week. You you this is so you don't get
• 1:05:25
  to pick what my tip is, Manny, I sure.
• 1:05:27
  OK, Sean. What is your just the tip for
• 1:05:29
  this? Week So this week my just the
• 1:05:31
  tip is that for Salat's. Bargain to Fowler.
• 1:05:33
  You can just pop a health potion.
• 1:05:35
  Yeah, you can choose your health potion.
• 1:05:37
  You could do an Algari health potion, which is like a lay on
• 1:05:40
  hands, or you can do a cave dull cave dwellers to light, which
• 1:05:43
  doesn't share a cool down with your Gary health potion, but
• 1:05:45
  instead is a combat potion. Now, you're not going to have
• 1:05:47
  access to your combat potion, but let's be honest, if you're
• 1:05:50
  running below a 12, you're probably not popping combat
• 1:05:51
  potions anyway. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 1:05:55
  whoa. Exclusively right flow are you?
• 1:05:57
  Hold on, Manny, are you in the last?
• 1:05:58
  Time I did a combat potion. Yeah.
• 1:06:00
  Like I'm like I'm now trying to like get between like into 10s
• 1:06:06
  and I'm like, I use them in rates.
• 1:06:08
  I I just stood like a. Ten.
• 1:06:12
  Oh no. Like.
• 1:06:13
  Behind everybody's journey is different.
• 1:06:17
  OK, you are exactly where you were meant to be and we will
• 1:06:20
  play with you. I already said I got rad alts
• 1:06:22
  that I'm using in Delft. Here we go.
• 1:06:24
  They'll come to your keys, yo. OK, we're fine.
• 1:06:26
  We're back, new frogs of Azeroth.
• 1:06:27
  Keys, man, He's got rice. Got that?
• 1:06:29
  Warlock that he's terrible at. He'll bring that everybody will
• 1:06:31
  be on the same man he's created. Warlock No, no, I'm I'm terrible
• 1:06:34
  at. Warlock.
• 1:06:35
  Like totally different. You're working on it.
• 1:06:37
  Here's the deal guys. You could be bad at.
• 1:06:40
  Stuff. There is nothing.
• 1:06:42
  Wrong to be bad at stuff. I am perpetually single because
• 1:06:45
  I'm bad at dating, but I will own that OK moving forward.
• 1:06:50
  Yeah, OK. So let's just quickly run
• 1:06:53
  through this meta. This episode has been so off the
• 1:06:55
  rails. Welcome back Lex.
• 1:06:58
  Warriors continue to be very popular between 2:00 to 6:00 and
• 1:07:02
  7:00 to 11:00, which is really great because warriors are in a
• 1:07:06
  fantastic place. As Sean, you have been promoting
• 1:07:09
  since before to the war with an even came out, so your opinion
• 1:07:14
  is super valid. We do see that as you move into
• 1:07:19
  the Keys 12 and higher, that you're actually seeing Vengeance
• 1:07:23
  Demon Hunters becoming the most popular, as well as seeing
• 1:07:27
  Guardian Druids that we mentioned last last week also
• 1:07:30
  coming in there. It's because we're fun.
• 1:07:33
  We got good vibes. Restoration.
• 1:07:37
  Shamans. Just continue to dominate across
• 1:07:41
  all levels. The the representation is just
• 1:07:45
  ridiculous. I have to believe something is
• 1:07:48
  coming to adjust them because they are just they are the
• 1:07:52
  outlier. Everything else is that we saw
• 1:07:55
  last week is relatively in in play, but this is a case where.
• 1:08:02
  They're going to get nerfed. This.
• 1:08:03
  Isn't the other classes getting put up?
• 1:08:05
  I don't know how you nerf it though.
• 1:08:07
  They're not they're. Not in first place, 'cause
• 1:08:09
  they're blasting, healing so high.
• 1:08:11
  They just have a million utility.
• 1:08:13
  It's the utility. And Sky Fury.
• 1:08:15
  We gave them a raid buff and everybody was like, oh you know
• 1:08:18
  what, they can also cap totem and thunderstorm and shortest
• 1:08:22
  kick on the planet and X and maybe we should bring them.
• 1:08:28
  I also 20% extra. HP every.
• 1:08:30
  Time they heal somebody. They they are.
• 1:08:33
  They are. Likely to adjust that the extra
• 1:08:36
  HP on top. That's the reason that odd Voker
• 1:08:38
  is being used a lot is for that extra cushion for the health.
• 1:08:44
  I suspect that you're likely to see a paladin like shift to the
• 1:08:50
  class tree in a later in a later build, maybe going into 11.1
• 1:08:56
  because I don't see it in sky fury.
• 1:08:58
  No, not for sky fury for the utility you may see like cat
• 1:09:02
  totem get like restricted to GDPS tote Sean.
• 1:09:06
  I don't know. I don't know how you.
• 1:09:09
  Oh, restricted. OK, I see what you're saying.
• 1:09:11
  I see. I don't know, man.
• 1:09:12
  That feels bad to me. They did it for.
• 1:09:15
  They did it for. Paladins, they have the
• 1:09:18
  president. They it's clearly specifically
• 1:09:21
  Resto that needs to be addressed.
• 1:09:23
  Pruning some of that utility so they can't do everything.
• 1:09:26
  I think is the is the way to address it because it's not like
• 1:09:29
  they heal far better than everybody else.
• 1:09:32
  It's not like there isn't rate utility that's being left on the
• 1:09:35
  floor by the groups that are pushing so high.
• 1:09:38
  It's the extra health. It's the fact that they have
• 1:09:41
  everything. So you got to address those, in
• 1:09:44
  my opinion. Also, they're cutie.
• 1:09:45
  Well, they have good vibes. It's hard.
• 1:09:47
  For me because one of my friends is playing resto.
• 1:09:49
  This year and I played Resto and Amir Roussel and I love Shaman's
• 1:09:53
  guy, I love Shaman and I don't want.
• 1:09:54
  To see it get nerve but at the same time I also.
• 1:09:56
  Understand. Like, hey, a Miss Weaver would
• 1:09:58
  like to get invited once to a key this season.
• 1:10:01
  Just once. Well.
• 1:10:04
  Honestly, in terms of classes, every single class has completed
• 1:10:10
  at least a between 14 to 14 to 12.
• 1:10:15
  I like looked to see when they what the highest was for each
• 1:10:18
  class and so they're all within 2 keys of each other.
• 1:10:21
  Most are have completed 13. That is even going with the fact
• 1:10:26
  that there's going to be a selection bias that is going to
• 1:10:31
  turn these numbers to be a little bit more extreme than
• 1:10:35
  their actual capabilities. But the capability is there for
• 1:10:39
  people to get to those higher keys with any class and it's
• 1:10:45
  it's proven. It's not theoretical in terms of
• 1:10:48
  DPS though. We're also starting to see sort
• 1:10:51
  of a meta build there. Paladins and DKS are really
• 1:10:58
  becoming like mainstays, which is a very melee heavy sort of
• 1:11:02
  set up. That also means, I think that it
• 1:11:06
  kind of hurts Holy Paladin, Holy Paladin Miss Weavers, the ones
• 1:11:10
  that have to get up close, because now everybody's kind of
• 1:11:13
  grouped up. So I think that also sort of
• 1:11:16
  sort of effects things as well. And it's being enabled by Resto
• 1:11:20
  Shaman being able to hang back and do everything from the
• 1:11:23
  distance and do things while moving.
• 1:11:25
  Good grief. Spirit Walker's grace is so good
• 1:11:27
  but so they also need to be addressed.
• 1:11:30
  We should get rid of it. They should block it behind zek
• 1:11:32
  fear. 'S layer completions, but if.
• 1:11:36
  You are interested in keys, just like we said at the top of the
• 1:11:39
  show, we have links to radar IO's route guides.
• 1:11:44
  We have links that show just like the breakdown of of like
• 1:11:49
  how the affixes are coming in, what you can do.
• 1:11:53
  So there's all those resources there, so make sure you check
• 1:11:56
  that out. The last thing that we have to
• 1:11:58
  talk about, of course, is the raid.
• 1:12:02
  We are now past the race to world first.
• 1:12:06
  The top teams have have started coming in.
• 1:12:09
  We're now at a point where the Hall of Fame is sort of what
• 1:12:12
  people are looking at. And then from there it is
• 1:12:15
  cutting edge. I got to ask you, Sean, as
• 1:12:17
  somebody who raised on a mythic level, do you think we're going
• 1:12:21
  to see the Hall of Fame filled faster now that there is no
• 1:12:29
  cross mythic day one, right? And do they even keep keep track
• 1:12:33
  of a Hall of Fame anymore or have they just done away with
• 1:12:35
  it? No, they're still going to keep
• 1:12:37
  track of a Hall of Fame, but I don't think.
• 1:12:38
  It will be filled until there is another massive sweep of nerves.
• 1:12:41
  Especially after the preservation nerves.
• 1:12:44
  A lot of these bosses were only killable because you had dual
• 1:12:47
  preservation evokers healing it. And now that they've been nerfed
• 1:12:49
  one of their one of their builds has been nerfed.
• 1:12:52
  I think without corresponding boss nerfs you're going to have
• 1:12:55
  a real hard time. Kyvesa is still a major wall.
• 1:12:58
  As we start to get the stacking buff it'll help, but if that's
• 1:13:02
  what we're relying on for Hall of Fame teams to clear the raid,
• 1:13:06
  mere mortals can forget it. I think I I wouldn't be shocked
• 1:13:11
  if we didn't see another massive sweep of nerfs on Oven Axe,
• 1:13:16
  Chivasa, Tokencourt and Ansarek before we start to see these
• 1:13:20
  things. 5 bosses entirely. Yeah, oven axe.
• 1:13:23
  Has been killed 200. As of yesterday I looked at this
• 1:13:26
  up. Yesterday 289 guilds had killed
• 1:13:28
  Oven Axe. 289 guilds required two blood death nights to kill
• 1:13:33
  Oven Axe. Zero guilds up until yesterday
• 1:13:37
  had killed it without having two blood death nights.
• 1:13:42
  So all of those nerves that we know when everybody on Twitter
• 1:13:44
  screamed, oh they can't, they gutted it, it's dead.
• 1:13:47
  This will fall over. If you have two geared and
• 1:13:51
  capable blood death nights on your team, there is a theory
• 1:13:55
  that it'll work with a Vengeance DH and a blood death night and
• 1:13:59
  then a third tank to three tank it, but I don't think any teams
• 1:14:05
  have actually done that yet. It's all been two blood.
• 1:14:08
  They should try it because vengeance demon hunters as we.
• 1:14:10
  Know are key to opportunities that have they should and this
• 1:14:13
  is a mythic on heroic. It just none of this applies on
• 1:14:16
  heroic. But yeah, honestly, the last
• 1:14:20
  four bosses, the first four of this raid I think are tuned
• 1:14:24
  probably pretty good teams are killing them at a good pace.
• 1:14:28
  But the last four, like Ian said, we felt that the
• 1:14:34
  difficulty in a mere Dressel was gradual at first, and then you
• 1:14:37
  hit a wall at Smolder on Tin Rule and for Rock, and we don't
• 1:14:40
  want that to happen again. And I guess we all thought that
• 1:14:43
  meant that we're going to smooth out the difficulty curve to the
• 1:14:46
  last boss. But what he meant was he wanted
• 1:14:48
  the entire last half of the raid to be a wall and not just the
• 1:14:53
  last three. OK.
• 1:14:56
  Yeah, well, you mentioned. The 1100.
• 1:14:59
  Guilds stuck on Ovenax, so you. Mentioned the raid.
• 1:15:03
  Buff that is coming in yeah Lex, do you want to take some time
• 1:15:07
  and just explain how this buff works Obviously this is not the
• 1:15:11
  savior Sean wants but this will help some teams progress over
• 1:15:15
  the coming week so how does this work exactly?
• 1:15:18
  Such a good question Manny. So according to the show.
• 1:15:20
  Notes Starting this week, players can now collect Nerve
• 1:15:24
  Bar Finery towards the Severn Threads.
• 1:15:26
  Buff drops off of the boss automatically.
• 1:15:29
  Account wide currency players can only collect up to the
• 1:15:32
  account wide cap of eight this week.
• 1:15:33
  There is a catch up mechanic for those who start late 16 required
• 1:15:37
  to turn in for a 3% bonus to damage and healing somewhere
• 1:15:41
  Strands can stack up to 8 times for a maximum of an 18% bonus.
• 1:15:45
  Sean, do you want to tell us what that means?
• 1:15:47
  Yeah, so. Every boss who kill drops one of
• 1:15:50
  these finery newer bar finery things.
• 1:15:54
  It's it's a currency. It drops off a boss.
• 1:15:56
  If you kill the boss, you loot it.
• 1:15:58
  It goes into your currency tab. If you don't loot the boss, they
• 1:16:01
  mail it to you. You still get it.
• 1:16:04
  So full clear the raid, you get 8.
• 1:16:06
  It takes 2 full clears of the raid on any difficulty to get
• 1:16:09
  16. You turn in those 16 and you get
• 1:16:12
  we think a 3% healing done and damage done bonus war band wide.
• 1:16:20
  So every character in your war band will have this buff once
• 1:16:23
  you do this turn in and that's stacks up to 8 times.
• 1:16:27
  The first time you'll be able to turn it in will be next reset.
• 1:16:30
  So if you're listening to this, the next reset you will be able
• 1:16:33
  to full clear. If you're a team that raids on
• 1:16:36
  Tuesdays, blast LFR when you log in before raid time, get your 8,
• 1:16:42
  turn it in. You have your extra damage jam
• 1:16:44
  for for raid on Tuesday if you want.
• 1:16:48
  Or don't. I mean, I think this is another.
• 1:16:51
  Reason that you're going to see some teams that are like let's
• 1:16:54
  say frog and on Mythic, they're going to go back and just kill
• 1:16:58
  like the last couple of bosses on a lower difficulty, whether
• 1:17:02
  that's LFR to heroic just so that they can make sure that
• 1:17:06
  they roughly hit their eight these first couple of couple of
• 1:17:10
  weeks. Sean, you are right.
• 1:17:12
  I think that is another tip right there.
• 1:17:15
  Make sure that if your team is like OK, we're going to proc
• 1:17:19
  through and we get the 44 bosses and we're trying for that 5th
• 1:17:22
  and hey, we finally got that fifth boss.
• 1:17:25
  Yay. Make sure you are hitting those
• 1:17:27
  last three so that you can get this buff in the following weeks
• 1:17:32
  as well. So that is the really good tip
• 1:17:35
  there. And be nice to each other.
• 1:17:36
  Now LFR. LFR's fun.
• 1:17:37
  Tell them. To have a good time, if anyone's
• 1:17:39
  being mean to each other, be like, don't be mean to each
• 1:17:40
  other. It's LFR.
• 1:17:42
  Have a good time, don't talk. No, it's.
• 1:17:44
  Fun. It's fun.
• 1:17:45
  It's cute having a good time. They're trying to learn.
• 1:17:47
  You could like teach each other. It's really good, it's really
• 1:17:49
  cute. I love LFR, just want to quietly
• 1:17:51
  ignore my chat and get my. Items, please?
• 1:17:53
  Yeah, or you can or you can or you can make friends and.
• 1:17:56
  You can help people with the mechanics and you can be like,
• 1:17:57
  OK, so I think we're not understanding here.
• 1:17:59
  And you can walk them through what people aren't
• 1:18:00
  understanding. And then you guys can have a
• 1:18:02
  good time. You can have fun.
• 1:18:02
  And if anyone's being mean, you could be like, Oh my God,
• 1:18:04
  imagine being such a loser that you're mean to people in LFR.
• 1:18:07
  I'm gonna commit, Sean aside. And I'm gonna AFK.
• 1:18:09
  Straight through. I did that today.
• 1:18:12
  All right, guys, we're gonna. Call it here.
• 1:18:15
  Until next time, may all your hits be crits.