Latest / Like a Virgin / Whole Hair, Hair Whole

Transcript

Whole Hair, Hair Whole · Like a Virgin

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Whenever I'm dressed cool, my parents put up a fight.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Ah if I'm hot, shut, mom will come my hair
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: at night.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: The implications of that song that if Gaga was like
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: acted out, her mom would come into her room at
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: night and cut her hair off. She's sheen ami.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: No ma, not name yo yo yo, what is your
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: childhood trauma?
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: I am chok.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Yo.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Life's going down before.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Round. Welcome to Lake a Virgin, the show where we
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: give yesterday's pop culture Todays takes armas DomU and I'm
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: friend Toronto, and today we're talking about hair.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Not to be confus with body or face hair.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Although although I do think we'll probably talk about both
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: body and facial hair, right right right, yes, so.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: My hair, my body hair.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Hars an. I think an underrated Gaga song.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Oh we can say they're gonna be like hair, just
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: as a thing is very underrated.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I'm like, no, actually, well, attention to hair, but I
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: think even that being true, it's still underrated.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Right right right. Maybe it's maybe there's a zance.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Happening with it. I mean, no one, I hate to
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: be a girl who references flea Bag, but there's that
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: part in flea Bag where She hates to be one
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: of those you know what I mean? She says, hair
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: is everything. Hair is like we pretend that it isn't,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: but it's everything, right.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: The girl that got the horrible haircut, the sister that
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: gets French, French, it's French. Have you ever gotten a
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: horrible haircut?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: The answer is yes, girl, girl? What do you think?
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: You and I have both experienced the trans cultural phenomenon
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: of leaving a hair salon, looking at yourself in a
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: reflective surface once and thinking should I kill myself?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Well? No, okay, So for me, that moment usually comes
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: three to five business days after the haircut. Like when
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I leave the salon, I'm almost always like, I love it,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: you know, looks great. This is what I wanted because
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I think I've made this social contract with the stylist
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: to have that experience.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: And then it's once I like wake up the next
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: day and see myself or wash my hair for the
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: first time and don't have a blowout anymore, or see
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the color in different light that I'm like I need
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: to go run into oncoming trap. Yes, yes, No.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: For me, it's completely immediate. It's the second I walk
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: outside and like, literally, look at my reflection in the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: next door window, like it is and I actually, I
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: mean I've obviously I had a lot of suicidal haircuts,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: but like the most recent one was actually I experienced
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: it kind of with you we're in. I had I
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: had a kind of more of a mullet shape for
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: a very long time, and it was pretty long, and
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, it's the end of the mullet. I
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: don't want it anymore, but I still want to keep
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: my hair long, So like, what do we do from here?
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: And we did the social contract your hairstylists, you know,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: good take full rain, like a little creative control. And
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: then I walked out of this haircut looking like motherfucking
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Lord far Quad and I was like, I am gonna yeah.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I was just like I was. I was devastated. But
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: the thing is, she was right. She was right the
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: whole time, and it's something she does a lot of
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: my friends. And what was she right about. She was
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: right about the shape of my hair. She was right
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: about what my hair needed to be, and that this
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: cut was a necessary means to an end. It's the
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: most recent haircut I've gotten. It was like months ago,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and it's now created the hair that I have today,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: which is fabu.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: That is something that does need to be spoken about.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Is like, some haircuts are not about an immediate result.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Some haircuts are transitional.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: And what Dakota Dakota also goes to the same hairstylist
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: and what she said to me was sometimes gives you
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: the haircut that you need, not the haircut that you want.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, that would it work for me?
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: You're like fundamentally against that.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: No, I'm as No, I'm very open to having a
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: conversation with my stylist. I found like two sides, the
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: two sides of the spectrum don't work for me. I
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: don't like going to a hairstylist where I'm like, this
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: is what I want and they give me exactly that,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: because I'm not the person who does hair so those
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: decisions should not be left one hundred percent up to
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I also don't want to go to a hairstylist who
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: tells me what I need and doesn't listen to me.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: With like a hand on the hip, like honey, we need.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: To meet somewhere in the middle. I need to come.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Which is this is why I like watching I actually
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: was just watching one before I came here a hair
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: consultation video on TikTok where it's like, let me tell
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: you about kind of the look I'm going for, let
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: me tell you about my hair texture, let me tell
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: you how willing I am to style my hair, and
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: then let me give you some reference images and then
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: we'll figure out together what to create. Because I think, really,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: if I can give anyone advice, like sure, we all
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: look at pictures of like celebrities or influencers or whatever
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: and are like, I want that copy pasted onto my head.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: But that which it never works.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Doesn't work because the image that you're referencing is like
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: the most like wayfish fashion, like unclockable girl, or like
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: well it's like the one of the most their face
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: shape where it's like it just doesn't Their face shape
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: is not your face shape, their complexion is not your complexion,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: their texture is not your text.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then also it's like, if you're looking at
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: pictures of celebrities, you're looking at pictures of the most
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: beautiful people in the world in the best lighting possible,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: like literally teams of people creating their image just so
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: even just their face and hair. So I think it's
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: good to look at photos and like figure out what
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: you like about them without being too literal, Like I
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: like this tone in the way it compliments her skin.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I like the width of or the length of her bangs.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I like, you know, like they're the layers they have
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: in their hair. But not you just can't copy paste
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: anyone else's hair onto.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Yourself, no, unless you were awake, right unless you are
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: are And even then it's you know, well, okay, you
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: and I are actually weighing some decisions on future hair decisions.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: But like, before we get to that, I kind of
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: want to dip into the hair of past. Oh baby,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: worst hair, worst hair face pre transistion, go.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Mine was the silver I have.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Your silver era is very iconic to me, specifically.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: It looked really good when it was like when it
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: was like short, manicured, like I was kind of giving,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: like I had the kind of like fied eye bro fade,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Like if I was white, it would have been like
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: the neo Nazi kind of fade, but I'm not, so
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: it didn't give them.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: The pictures are incredible and virgins. I definitely recommend you
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: go really far back.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah I've actually archived.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, well I will supply them.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, but I also so once the
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: hair grew out, it looked like this mane of silver hair.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't like emo girl. It wasn't glam, it
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: wasn't it was just mangy, or was it. It was
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: like it was like grayish, bluish, purplish yellow.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: We all know, we all know the vibe. But it's
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: giving gay person in a crisis.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Just as a quick aside, men must stop getting neo
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Nazi haircuts, as someone who used to be a man,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: and as someone who used to get them, stop getting
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: like the blind barber fade like the kind of like.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: It's so like but you know, a high and tight
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: it works.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: No, it doesn't.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: It works on some people.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: It doesn't work on white people. It just doesn't. It's
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: it's it's it looks, it's boring. It's just it doesn't
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: say anything about the person.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: But some people don't need their haircut to say anything
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: about them. I don't. I could not imagine a world
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: in which that is true, but it is true for people.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: They don't care.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: It was a time where you thought your hair told
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: told something about the well, well, I want to answer
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: your question about my worst haircuts, That's what I was asking. So,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, let me so, I think more so than you,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I have been on a hair journey my entire life,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: night life. I've not only nightlife, but like when I
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: was a teenager, and I know I've talked about this
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: on the podcast before, probably like ages ago when we
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: did our hot topic episode. Dyeing my hair was one
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: of the first things I did as like an adolescent
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: where I was like, this is about my individuality, you know,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: like I've been dyeing my hair since I was twelve thirteen.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: So my hair has been every color, and I do
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: mean every color, like every natural color and every unnatural.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Color, blonde, blonde.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Brown, black, green, green, yellow, red, orange, purple, blue, blue, wow,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: everything never a rainbow moment.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Come on, eternal sunch out of the spot is.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Mine, I would say. So, I would say, like one
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: of my worst hair moments is something that also has
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: been spoken about. This we've also spoken about before or
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: with Honey Pluton. When I did get my hair chemically
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: straightened in high school at thee at the Red Kid Lounge,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: not not at the Red Kid Loud, but at the
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: salon that was at the mall. I don't know that
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: that was the worst one, but it, uh, it was
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: probably up there. It's probably it's probably up there. And
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: then you know, I mean like boy life. I mean,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: maybe my worst haircut looking back on it now, is
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: the year before I transitioned. I had sort of a mullet,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: and then I had done sort of that like monk
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: thing where you shave back the hairline a little bit,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: but then you still have like a bang kind of
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, it was, it was. It was weird.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: It's so hard to imagine. Yeah, I don't, I really,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I never I don't know anything about you pre transition.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: I don't even do you want to look at Do
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: you want to get some old phone? No?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no please, no no.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's I think it'll be fun. No.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I know they're fun for you, but they're not fun
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: for me. But I don't even know your dead name.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Girl, You don't really, it's surprising.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I have a guess, but I actually don't know.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: I if I can find, let's guess each other's. I mean,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think my my hair was always like
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: shaggy was kind of always the moment.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: And then Scooby really hit it.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Let me show you. I'll show you a picture of
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: me in college, and I.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: To see this. This is non consensual.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: You really don't.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: On the Patreon, I've already seen a photo of you
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: as like a high school boy, and even that was
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: but this is me as a college boy, and it's
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: actually like okaute, Okay, okay, isn't that crazy? It's really jarring,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: isn't it weird? You look really cute?
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I know, right, yeah you do. I have had some
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: moments I like, don't. I like, really don't have a
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: problem with looking at pre transition photos.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Don't. So that was my boundary cross.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I I like, I know that we're sort
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: of straying off topic, but we do that on this show.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Well, you have hair on your face, this photo.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Said I. I don't mind looking at pro transition photos of
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: myself because like it's actually like kind of nice for
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: me to look back nown and be like I wasn't
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: so bad. Yeah, like I was kind of I was
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: kind of cute, Like I'd fuck me.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: That's not the experience I'm having. I obviously don't have
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: a problem looking at pre transition photos because I've only
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: come out a year and still for a year. I've
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: only been out for a year, and I still kind
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: of look the same. But I I I do cringe
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: so fiercely at old photos on myself because because you're
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: able to, like, I don't know, photos like that, Like
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: if I looked at my college version of that photo,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I would just be immediately transported to like how out
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: of touch I was with like myself and my body
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: and my personhood and like so it's like kind of wonky,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: but like, no, it's it is, I do. I we've
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: both gotten so much hotter, Like we both have glowed
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: up so hard.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I thank you, thank you for saying that, both about
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: yourself and about me. I don't always feel it like
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I felt. So I felt that so much more at
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: the beginning of my transition because it was so like
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: it was something I had to believe just to like
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: survive every day. Because okay, so here's a hair thing.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Right before so as I said, I had that crazy
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: like shaved back hairline. And when I decided to like
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: when I like, the whole year leading up to deciding
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: to transition, like I had been really like playing with
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: my gender and like trying all these different forms of
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: expression and like I had kind of long hair, and
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: then during a performance at and I also had, I
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: had fish hair, and during a performance at a party
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: that Reefe Royalty used to throw at TNT, I buzzed
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: all my hair off. And so I started my transition
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: with no hair.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: What did you wear? Wicks?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I to parties sometimes, but like I had, but like
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I had because of that the first two years in
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: my transition, which, like like I've said before, like I
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: look back on the time, it's like some of the
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: worst moments of my life because I was like, so
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: I was like my my my mentality was like so
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: at odds with my presentation, and that only made me
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: like push harder. And I was like just not giving
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: physically what I was giving mentally and instead of like
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: being a and I don't know, that's like very complicated
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: and and I look back on it now and I
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: don't cringe because like I know that it was necessary
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: for my survival and it was like doing that allowed
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: me to get to the point where I didn't have
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: to do that anymore. But I really kind of fucked
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: myself over because if I had kept that mullet, I
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: at least would have had a little hair to like
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: toss around when I was like stomping down myrtle Broadway.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Starting your transition bolt is actually kind of a serve.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Were you like Nonminaria first? Yeah?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: And I also in that same fold I'm not gonna
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: show it to you, but and that same folder I
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: was I had that photos in. I have a folder
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: in my phone in my phone albums of just it
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: says old of photos, like pre transition photos, like not
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: like some baby photos, but mostly like adulthood photos. And
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: there's one that I took like right after not only
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I cut all my hair off, but like totally like
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: shaved my face like raw for the first time. And
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: like looking at that, like it does it like a
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: hairless Yeah, like a no, like a hairless cat cat.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't. It doesn't hurt to look at it.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: But I I just look at it, and I'm like,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: why did you start like that girl? Because I was
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: going crazy. Transitioning is crazy, It's fucking crazy. Every hair
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: is such a big.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Part of it. It's essential. It's an essential part of
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the movement.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: So like, Okay, I'm going to bring us to like
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: a dark I know we're getting kind of head well,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: we're getting to the light place after, We'll get to after.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: So So when I was like a year after I
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: had started transitioning, I was raped, and I like was real.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I had like a really like dark, dark, like intense
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: period of trauma afterwards, and I like came very close
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: to a suicide attempt. And one of the things that
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I did to pull myself out of it was like
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: list all of the reasons why I wanted to be alive,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: and one of the ones I listed was like, I
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: want to live enough for my hair to grow past
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: my shoulders. Oh my god, you make me cry. Yeah,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: and I did.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I'm literally, oh my gosh, shut up, but sorry. I
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: was making so many suicide jokes earlier, I mean sue
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: jokes like help you get through the cold reality.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I make suicide jokes all the time. And
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I'm I like also came close to a suicide attempt,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: like not that long ago.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: So and you know, I okay. The thing about hair
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: is actually your here can completely reinvigorate your head space
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: and life like a good.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Hair lip or it's on the space on your head.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, and like even like beyond like walking int of
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: a haircut. Sometimes it's just like after you've worn hair
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: for a certain time and then all of a sudden
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: you look and you're like, oh my god, like this
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: is my hair, Like my hair's finally arrived where it
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: needs to be. Like I feel like I had that
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: recently my hair. Yeah, I'm pretty sure if only, Like
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I mean so in high school I did get that
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: kind of like Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire era,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: like skater boy shag, like I had that hair. Oh
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you did. Okay. That was a big hair decision. And
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: then maybe my second most important, my second hair decision
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: was to go silver, which was like a big movement
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: for me. And then after I I was silver for
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: like a year and a half, I was so sick
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: of like shoveling money, time and energy into like maintaining
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: it because like never ever ever die, Like dying your
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: whole head is crazy. If you have black hair, it's
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: just not worth the energy and pain. And also just
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: like I'm sick, there's it's not there's not a ton.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Of success so much and it damages your hair and
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: it gets.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: So bad, so yellow. And anyways, after that, I shaved
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: my bult and that was kind of the last hair
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: decision I made before I figured out that I was
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: trans and I like my kind of not as dark
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: as your period, but like my darker period was like
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: years and years and years and years of doing nothing
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: with my hair and wearing the same outfit every day
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: because I used to have I was in that phase
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: of like pretty much wearing the same like you know,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: all black whatever outfit every day and having this mustache
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: that I didn't even like, reminding me of my dad.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I still don't even know.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Why I had facial hour.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Why did you have facial hair? I still because I
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: wanted to be fuckable, Like I still to this day
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: don't know why I had a mustache.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: It was about being fuckable and right, I mean the
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: what I what I've always thought about, like specifically, the
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: year and some chain before I transitioned, I had like
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: the most facial hair I've ever had. Yeah, and I
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: and I think it was because, like what I've reflected
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: on now is I needed to lean as far as
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I could into masculine presentation basically to see if that
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: was real, like if that was who I actually was,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Like Okay, I don't like because I had been feeling
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: like I had always played with gender, like as a
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: club kid, like I like presented like like very fem
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: sometimes in those kinds of spaces, and like did things
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: that were like drag adjacent but like more performance already.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: But I also like you know, being like I was
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: like like being a little hairy, like being fat, you know,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: like also like existed in that like cub and like
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: that was me experimenting, like trying to figure out, like, okay,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: with what I've been given, let me take it as
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: far as it will go and see if that's the
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: gender thing that feels real to me, or if the
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: other stuff it was is what feels real. So like
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: that year I was like had long facial hair. I
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: was like go into the eagle and like you know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: wearing leather and like going to a fairy sanctuary and
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: like getting pissed on at the outdoor shower. And like
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: my my friend and I who used to throw parties,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: we started throwing a party called Daddy, and I was
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: like doing all of this like gender performance, and it
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: all felt incredibly hollow. Yes, it felt so retroactively, you're like,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: and I like had to swing that far in that direction, yes,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: to realize that that wasn't who I wanted to be,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: and like I also and so like then I tried
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: swinging to the middle and being like, Okay, well maybe
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I'm somewhere in the middle, so let me get this
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: weird like you know, haircut and like you know where
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: bad eyeshadow, and and like you know use like you know,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: neutral pronouns and like that didn't really feel either, And
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: so then I had to ask myself, like, are these
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: things just like a costume that is insulating me from
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: like the truth of who I am or who like
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I've always wanted to be. And that was the answer,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: And like once I answered it, I like couldn't look
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: away from it.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like how could I Like it's been there.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: It's almost like it's been there the whole time in
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: a weird way.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Of course, the conversation about hair with two trans people
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: being a conversation about and because hair is trans, it's
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: trans period hairs trans trans is hair, trans is hair.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: It's like trans is having hair, not having hair, removing hair,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: growing hair like.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: It is hitting hair transplanted.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: It's so hair is so incredibly integral to your identity.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: It's trans.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about any person. I want to
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: talk about hair body mod but before we move away
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: from this little dark this little dark moment, I want
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: to also, like, just what you just said was so validating,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Like hollow was the word I the years that I
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: spent like wearing the same, like having the same haircut,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: like my lesbian barber giving me the exact same haircut
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: for six seven years, wearing the same outfit and a
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: mustache that I retrospect retroactively, I'm like, definitely was like
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about maybe being fuckable, but honestly, I
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: didn't even feel fuckable. I just felt like I was
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: trying to hide my face because I didn't like looking
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: at my face, and my mustache was something to distract
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: me and others from the fact that I didn't like
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: my face and didn't feel attractive. And and like I
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I think that maybe I also really liked the kind
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: of vintage vintagey like castro clone, like porn stash like
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: and I did do it before. That was cool, by
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the way, but no, like I now, I'm trying so
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: desperately to remove all my hair and grow it all
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: on top of my head and and maybe get like
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: hair transplants in the corners of my forehead and I
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I like they're like I'm able to look
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: at like the photo I showed you, and like I
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: know who that person was, and I do feel a
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: connection with them when I look at the photos of
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: like the year leading up to me deciding to transition
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: and then the year like immediately following it. That's the
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: person who I'm like, I don't know who you are
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: because like I don't understand the either like the extreme
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: in one direction or like the like chrysalis.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Uh, like I hate the.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Metaphor, but that is that is who I feel so
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: far away from because it's like that person was so
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: confused about who they were and was in so much pain,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: and like the hair was such a manifestation, was a
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: tranifestation of that. You can see pain. Hair is pain.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, tell me, tell tell me that I
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: still have not gone to electrolysis and I'm about to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: start that journey.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, have you did you decide where
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: you're gonna go?
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my friend, I have a lot of friends that
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: all recommended me to the same place, which I am
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: going to gate keep for now.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Well, you'll have to tell me how it is.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm trying to get my health insurance to
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: pay for it. This is an interesting but anyways, hair
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: electrolysis versus laser, that is interesting to me.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Like, well, electrolysis hurts so much more because laser is
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: very quick. Yeah, an electrolysis like you pay by the
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: time increment because they pay by the hair because they
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: go in and zap each hair follicle individual and you
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: and I.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Know somebody who like clinically knocked herself out to experience
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: electrolysis because the pain, which I would like to do. Yeah,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I want a doctor that will let me be unconscious
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: during it.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I want someone to come into my home while I'm sleeping.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Knock me out. Yeah, yeah, knock me clean out.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: And well, no, I want to I want I want
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: to take like three ambient and then wake up, not three. Yeah,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: and then have you ever are you gonna do laser
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: anywhere else on your body?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I it really depends on how well everything else goes.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: But if you know you can't do it anywhere you've
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: been tattooed.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna that's the problem. What Yeah, that's really good
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: to know. But that's fine because I really only want
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: laser on my whole and maybe on my chest. But
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I I'm not really that's more like kind of like
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: fun money like next step because I actually, I mean
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: obviously I don't. I just like shave the hair on
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: my whole and I don't mind. I like I when
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I trim the hair on my chest, I don't mind it.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: I don't mind what it does.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I never shaved my whole. Oh really, and I had
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: someone recently.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: But your hair, your probably whole hair, your hair hoole,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: your hair whole, your whole hair, your whole hair is
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: probably so fine.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: And maybe maybe, but I did have someone. This has
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: happened a couple of times. But I can recall one
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: recent instance where someone was like, we were making plants
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: to hook them, and they were like, are you gonna, like,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: you know, are you gonna be like smooth and hairless
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: for me? And I was like, I would never groom
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: myself based on someone else's requirement.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, never on principle. On principle, I would, however,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: so that guy should slide into my DMS, I do.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: There is something about like when if a guy's coming
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: over and it's a guy who's into like a girl
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: like me. I do want to kind of be like
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: buffed and puffed and trimped and talked, you know what
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I mean. I mean, I'm not talking, but I taught.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I used to. I used to feel that way. I
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: used to put so much effort into like when especially
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: when I was hooking up with people and like being
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: as cute and femb as possible, And now I like, hey,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I don't hey, b I don't care. I mean a
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: big part of it is like I'm actively not looking
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: to have sex with like chasers with straight people. I'm
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: like primarily trying to have sex with queer people. So
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I like would hope that queer people like don't care
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: about that as much. And then also like I don't
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: care about it, yeah, as much.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: You actually have helped you. You were one of the
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: primary people to like continually reorient my thinking around that,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: being like you gotta stop prepping and buffing and puffing
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: for guys that don't show up, because that happened to
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: me so frequently in Los Angeles, Like fuck every man
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: in Los Angeles who did that to me? But like
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: nobody likes to like douche and go through the whole
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: hour long ringer of like looking like a presentable, clean
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: person for somebody that doesn't show up but now and
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: so I don't do that anymore for other men. I
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: do it for me if I'm doing it, yeah, and
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: if I And the only reason I'm doing it is
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: because I want to feel powerful. I don't care if
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: that is what they desire. I don't care if that's
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: a need that they want. It's like I'm using my
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: kind of feminine beauty and glow to you know, woo them.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: And it's also like honestly on like the facial hair
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: of it all, and just like how I present as
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: a person, because sometimes they feel totally crazy just talking
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: about being trans in general. It's like sometimes they feel
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: like I have kind of reverse gender dysphoria where I
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: think I'm like way more soft and cunt than I
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: actually am, and like sometimes that works out for you.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like a Jedi mind trick. I mean
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of being trands is like a Jedi mind
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: trick that you have to do on yourself.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Well you have to, and like I mean, the thing
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: is like you did come out like last year, and
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: you like I'm I'm telling you, like I think, especially
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: coming out as an adult, because like now we live
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: in a world where people are coming out younger and younger,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: and like, once you've like lived in the world like
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: with your body looking a certain way, like you really
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: have to kind of beat a little Delulu. Oh, you
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: have a while until you like kind of catch up
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: to where you want to be. And like, obviously neither
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: of us are saying like there's only one right way
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: to present as a transperson, as a trans woman, like whatever,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: But when you do want that, sometimes you gotta lie
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: to your It's not that I'm saying that you're lying,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: but like sometimes you just have to like fucking believe
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: it so much so that other people will too, or
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: so that even if other people don't believe it, at
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: least you do, and so like in your mind that
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: makes them the stupid ones for not getting it.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, Delulu is the end. D Lulu
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: is my life and brand like that is like how
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I operate, Like you know that, like kind of one
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: of my best and worst qualities is that I truly
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: fiercely believe that things can happen when they truly will
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: not happen. You know, but sometimes you have to like
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: believe in it in order to get even like a
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: fraction of close to what you want. And like in
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: terms of like hair, like I mean you and I
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: are very lucky to be in a Brooklyn trans bubble
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: where like I can go to bars and be among
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: friends and being among gay people who will actually see
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: me and acknowledge my gender and use my pronouns, and
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I don't even have to ask, like and I didn't
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: even have to inform them that was something that was
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: disseminated to them, or maybe they got a clue based
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: on how it is presenting. But I do fiercely believe that,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: among other things, my hair right now is like part
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: of what really helps people see me. Not that gender
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: should be so tied up in performance. And that's like
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: a whole other conversation that we don't need to talk about.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Like gender, it's a way that you telegraph to the world,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Like it's how you clue them in. And I also
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: think it's not necessarily just like a Brooklyn queer bubble.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: It's like we live in New York. Yes, like people
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: here are used to the existence of trans people.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, like you will walk out the door and see
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: them getting coffee, like going on a jog, like you know,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know what people do.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: I think like people here, when they see someone who's
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: maybe like their initial perception of them, based on whatever reason,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: doesn't match up to what it seems they are trying
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: to inform the world about them. They instead, I think
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: here people in major metropolitan cities like New York, people
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: are more likely to be like, Okay, I'll go with
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: what this person is clearly trying to do, rather than
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: like what I'm assuming.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, exactly.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: H And hair is such a huge part of it,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Like I you know, I have there are days when
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I feel like really gross and like like bricky, and
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: the fact that I have this like long hair is
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: like a shield that I get to wear out into
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: the world that I'm like, at the very least I
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: have this.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and even I mean, my facial hair is like
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: my biggest battle. It's like the thing that I hate
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: the most about my face up from frequently and I had.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: And it's just never gonna be gone, Like that is
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: just reality, Like shut up, no, I'm dealing with your
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: hair is gone? Are you kidding? I can so much.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Seeing I've never seen a single hair on your face.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: That's crazy to me because I see it.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting because like up next to your face, so
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: now you see it. No, not right now, I'm saying,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: only when I am like literally like putting my eyes
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: next to your face because you just told me that
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: you just had laser and so you haven't shaved in
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: four days. Is the only time where I have seen
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: hair on your face.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: You will see this me right now? Is like I
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: almost like I almost shaved this morning because this is
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: like more it's it's gotten better recently because I had
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: laser again, but and also because I've just kind of
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: stopped caring as much about going out, like feeling like
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I have visible facial hair. But like this where I'm
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: at now is kind of like the last day into
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: a cycle that I would want to do that and
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: something toxic is like I do like orient the way
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I schedule my life still around shaving. That's all around
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: shaving and also around washing my hair. That's not toxic
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: at all. That's totally normal. Like the way the way
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: that I only I will only smoke a cigarette the
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: day that I'm washing my hair. It's like also not
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: toxic I like to think about the Like if I'm
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: making plans with someone for dinner, I'm like, oh, like
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I should make plans like the day after. I know
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to shave the next time, you know, so
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: like I don't get myself in like a bad cycle.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: You know, like I'm getting I'm getting my hair done
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: on Thursday, and I'm like, okay, I'm I know I'm
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: gonna want to like take photos, like make a TikTok,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: so I should make sure that like I'm like not
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: clocky that day.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely shaving for like any front
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: facing camera video I'm doing generally, and then like figuring
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: out how to like cover up like my beard shadow,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: which will go away one day, right.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: You will. You will be shocked one like the first
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: time you have or like the next time you have
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: like a successful laser electrolysis or whatever, like and that
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: when you shave and like the shadow isn't immediately there,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: like it will be a very big moment. Okay, so
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: oh future haion, Okay, future hair decisions. So I mean
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: this episode will come out after this has happened. But
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I have a hair appointment on Thursday. I have I'm
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: really happy with the person who does my hair now.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I like kind of when I moved back to New York,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: I'd been seeing someone in LA who, like I kind
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: of liked, but he was kind of the person I
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: was talking about before who he was more like he
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: gave me exactly what I asked for rather than giving
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: his opinion and like having a conversation about it. This
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: person who I work with now at the salon the
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Birdhouse in Bushwick, which is like literally the only reason
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I will go to Bushwick is to go to the
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: salon because I have a really amazing hairstylist. Her name
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: is Drenne, and she it's always like very collaborative and
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: when we talk when we do my hair, and like
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: we've gotten into a good cycle of like maintenance and
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: also okay, so also I have broken my cycle with her,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: of the the cycle that I had gotten myself into,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: which was specifically about hair color. And you know that
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: I used to do this, so it was always like
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: basically even even pre transition, like I did this like
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: when I was when I was presenting as a boy.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: It would be red in the sum, red in the fall,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: dark in the winter, blonde in the summer and then
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: usually like late summer, when the blonde was growing out,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I would do like a fun color.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter what year it is, Rose will
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: still ask the internet if she should go blonde or
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: go red but this or if you should have bangs.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: But this year, I really like firmly made the decision
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: that my hair is meant to be or like I
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: feel the most me when I have red hair or
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: like reddish hair. And I even like I went blonder
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: for the summer, and like a month into it, I
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: was like, no, this isn't right, Like I have to
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: I have to break the cycle. And so now it's
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: like it's always going to be read, Like the tone
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: might change, but it's always going.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: To be read, and then maybe the shape might change.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: The shape might change. I have been I have been
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: pretty seriously considering bangs.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And you can't see right now, but Rose has a
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: knife to her throat and she is threatening.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: I know, like the bank thought like came from a
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: dark place at first, because of the recent mental trauma
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I've been enduring.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: She's like, I swear to God, I'm gonna get bangs.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: But now I've been doing something. I've been looking. I've
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: been spending a lot of my time recently looking at
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: old photos of my and I, well, like from the
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: past couple of years, and I specifically went and looked
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: at all the photos of myself where I had bangs
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: from the past couple of years, and I do really
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: like how they look on me. At the same time,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: like I do like my hair the way it currently
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: is kind of I think what I've realized is like
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the I like the way I look with bangs, They're
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: not always the most functional for my hair texture and
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: my lifestyle because I'm a forehead sweater, so my bangs
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: get like when I have bangs, like they will get
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: kind of damp, and like no one wants to walk
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: around with like wet hair, Okay, but like what if
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: you're just doing the little curler every morning so that
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: the bangs are kind of like this, so they're not
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: touching your forehead, you know, even then they'll still get,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: you know, like damp.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: But the reference is Florence, right, or maybe like or
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: what do we what do we going? What are we?
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean Florence.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Do we want to straight across bang? Do we really
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: want to do that?
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Or do I think here, I'll show you. I'll show
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: you a reference.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not being subtle. I kind of want you to
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: go in a more feathery vibe because.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: I think, well, I've done I've done a curtain bang before,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: and like that is probably.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: A curtain bang is the Florence bang.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: No, a curtain bang is like a longer, more feathery bang. Okay,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: and that doesn't work for you. This is kind of
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Oh I like this love. It's like it's like blunt
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: but still a little feathery.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, it's it's a little it's like not asymmetrical,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: but it's a little choppy. Not it's not that's it.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: It's not trying to be.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not going to I'm not ever gonna do
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: like a Zoe Dachanell bang.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's what I was worried.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: But Florence is more the vibe. And also, like my
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: you know, I was just home visiting my family recently,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: and my my mom and my two sisters all three
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: of them have bangs. We all have the same texture hair,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: like all of us, and it was like a nice moment.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: We were all sitting around talking about our hair and
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: we like they were all talking about having bangs, and
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I kind of want that. And also,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: I my mom and I went out for breakfast one
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: morning and I posted a picture of her on my
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Instagram story, and so many people either commented or told
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: me the next time they saw me, oh my god,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: you and your mom look so much like you have
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: the exact same hair, and that a couple of years ago,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I realized my hair was red, and I realized I
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: looked at a photo of my mom from when she
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: was young, and I was like, oh my god, I
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: look so much like my mom. And I immediately dyed
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: my hair a different color because I didn't like that.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: And now you're like, and like, I love it. I
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: want to look like that. And my mom and I
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: when I was home the most recent, like last week,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: we literally had like our hair is the same color,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: the same texture, we do that we wear it the
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: same way. She has bangs, so like I kind of
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: wanted to just lean into it.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: You should, you absolutely should, so.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: I might be getting.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I'm very pro bangs so long as they're bangs that
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: like don't feel like they should feel like an extension
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: of what you already have. And I think that like
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: that reference image is perfect to me. You're gonna be
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: so much more TikTok though it's gonna make you like
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: it's just gonna be so cute.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: And I think maybe, like I'll have to decide if
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: because every time I've gotten bangs, I haven't maintained them.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: I always immediately start growing them out, and so I
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: think that's where I so if I just like commit
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: to having them for a while, I won't feel as
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: as much like that I regret them, but like I'll
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: always regret a haircut or a hair color decision, as
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I said in three to five business days.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Do you want to know the hair decision that I'm
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: thinking about?
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, tell me extensions again?
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: No, oh my god. I mean I would love to
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: have an extensions moment, but that would be more like
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: event based, like a ponytail or something like that. I'm
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: currently thinking a lot, and I can't really do it
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: until I have like fun money, but like that probably
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: could be like maybe as soon as the winter. I
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: am thinking a lot about So I actually love the
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: color like your color, like red brown, whatever, and I
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: think it would go really well with my black hair.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about taking just my haircut as it
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: is and dyeing all of the tips red. That's cute, yeah,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: because I think it would be like not, It's not
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: like a huge change, and it's something that I can
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: chop off if I get sick of it.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: It's a little emot.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: It's a little malgoth, but I can But the way
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I would wear it would be pretty fashion. I mean
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: not in what I'm literally in a mal goth outfit
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: right now, like kind of crazy, but like, yeah, no,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I've been feeling the kind of emo. But I also
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: just have been wanting more texture in my hair, like
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: more something that just like brings out, like the shape
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: and the feel of it. So I think that might
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: be my next move because I haven't gotten a haircut
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: in months, which is a great thing because my haircuts
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: are so expensive. But yeah, no, I'm thinking about a
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: red like yours, maybe a red that's like a little
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: more electric and a little less auburn.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: That's very exciting. I mean, I'm when I do my
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: hair this week, I'm doing cut and color, so I
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: will be going a much deeper, darker copper red.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going would you describe this now?
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: This is like auburn like a like a it was
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: copper the last time I got it colored and it
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: has faded to more of an auburn. But I also
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: my hair is like very highlighted, so a lot of
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: it so like it is light because of that work.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: But this is kind of the vibe.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: But oh that's really red. Wow, Sophie, I extremely read and.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Also like getting older older Florence, because Florence now does
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: like a more naturally ginger.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Oh that's her, but that's not her natural hair color. No,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: no way, Wait, that air is amazing.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: The bangs are not, but I don't I don't mind
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: the and also also Emma Stone and Corilla that's amazing.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Wait, well the glasses I mean with god, Wait, that's
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: a really good bang.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: And also Florence and the Shake It Out video that
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: is kind of the ultimate reference. Yes, Florence shake it
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Out Ceremonials Era. Florence is like the hair and bang
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: that I'm going for.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: I wish I could pull off that color red you
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: really like with your with your postaline skin tone, It's
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: really gonna look so fierce on you. I can't wait
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: for that hair. Era.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Who's hair? Who in the world? Like, do you think.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Hair outside the opera. Okay, nice, but the tattoo I
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: have on my thigh slash the hair that I am
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: aspiring to Yeah, what about you.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Uh, Nicole Kiinman In practical.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Matter, yes, well, hair is maybe a generat Yeah yeah, yeah,
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: let's say some some hair, the most synthetic, the most
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: hair extensions ever committed to film.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and now a clip from our Patreon become a
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: patron at patreon dot com, slash like a virgin for
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: weekly bonus episodes and more so. I know that we
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: have discussed religion before in our in every episode, in
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: every episode about France childhood trauma, and specifically in our
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Christmas episode from Holidays twenty twenty one. But today we're
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: going to talk about spirituality, you know, not necessarily organized religion,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: more of like woo oo like esotic spirituality between us
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: and our God or.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: God's mysticism, higher powers, vibes, vibes, manifestation, trannifestation, the power
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: of magic. Thinking the secret.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: The secret I'm secreting the secret which I whenever I
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: think about the Secret, I think about Samantha reading it
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: on the beach and the Sex and the City movie.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: I'm secreting secreting.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I was going to say totally separate.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: We honestly should do an episode on the Bible that
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: would actually be a really good separate episode. Stay tuned
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: for that. But like, I really feel like in terms
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: of like religion, spirituality, whatnot, we are in a very
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: interesting time post Channy Nicholas, Post Channy Nicholas. We're in
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: front of the podcast, friend of the podcast Channy Nicholas,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: We're in everybody. I mean, we actually almost over indexed
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: on astrology culture and now Australiy's like astrology is a
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: little bit on it Wait, sorry, Channing, I mean like
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: not on its way out, but like we're talking about
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: it less because we've kind of exhausted the amount we're
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: talking about it. But I say this all to say
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: is that the crystals and the woo woo and the
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: kind of white woman mysticism that is kind of oozing
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: its way through a lot of our culture and our
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: daily conversations has a lot to do I think with
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: the fact that like Christianity is becoming less and less.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Popular, not if you watch the news.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: No, it really is, like statistically, like people that believe
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: in God are becoming the minority, which is cool. They
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: are not like in a population that is necessarily increasing.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Do you do you believe in God? No, God, God God?
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Do you believe in some kind of higher power or
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I guess sort of like intelligent design to the universe.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Do you believe in magic and sort of the power
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: of positive thinking and like energy and that?
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: I kind of. I don't believe in magic personally. I
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: believe in a person's a bit to sell themselves on
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: a story and for that story to have actual ramifications
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: on their life. So with Christianity or with astrology, or
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: with reading taro or like whatever it is that is
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: your you're really telling yourself a motherfucking fairy tale. But
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: those fits. But the thing is, stories are so powerful.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: So powerful.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: I'm holding Rose's hand right now, my God, stories are
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: literally so powerful.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: I can't. We have not said that on the podcast
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: for so long, and honestly for too long.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll be our hat, That'll be the next hat
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: I do. It's it's crazy, though, I'm actually saying, being
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: very earnest, like the power of storytelling is actually religion,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: like the Bible is actual mythology that has been sold
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: to billions of people that has been passed down through
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: eons and the world. Yes, and that's the story. Is
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: that powerful?
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: So stories are so powerful.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: But now we do versions of this with the kind
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: of like white woman manifestation thing. Like I do actually
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: think that, like, whatever it is that is your jug,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: believing in something higher is good for you and good
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: for your brain. Like science science statistics have actually shown that, like,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: people that believe in God or some kind of higher
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: power are statistically happier than the rest of the population. Like,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: and it makes sense because you because you're believing in
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: a lie. But lies are great. Lies are powerful, and
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: that's why I think I love a lot of them.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I subscribe to a lot of wo Woo girls stuff
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: because I think it's important to just in the same
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: way we use therapy to reflect, to like, use the
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: stories of the world to I don't know, live your life,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: to orient your life.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Around what do you think is the most woo woo
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: thing you do?
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a really good question. Do you have an
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: answer to this?
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty superstitious, you know, I will. I used
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: to be much more when I was a kid, Like
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: step on a crack break your mother's back that kind
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: of stuff. But like if I have if I have
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: an eyelash, I'm making a wish on it. Okay, if
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: it's eleven eleven, I'm making a wish. Okay. If I
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: spill salt, I'm throwing it over my shoulder, although I
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: always forget which shoulder it's supposed to be, Like I
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: do kind of it's not that I believe that stuff,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: but I always have that moment of like, what if
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: I don't do it in something something bad happens, or
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: like things like my mom always used to tell me
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: when you start a new job, make sure that on
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: the first day you walk in on your right foot.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Like little things like that like have like accumulated in
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: my brain. And so I think that is the thing
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: that I still have some lingering belief in that they're
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: is a sort of pattern we can hack into through
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: these little rituals that have like accumulated over millennia, and
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: because of like the belief in them, they hold some
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: kind of power. I don't necessarily think that power comes
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: from like God or any or anything, but like even
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: if it's just like the power of my own beliefs, Like, yes,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I do believe in that so that is I think
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: the woo wooiest thing about me, and there have been
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: times in my life when I've been into much more
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: woo woo things. Same, but that's kind of curzy.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Jesus