Latest / Identity at the Center / #179 - Authenticate 2022 - Reusable Digital Identity with Sarah Clark

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#179 - Authenticate 2022 - Reusable Digital Identity with Sarah Clark · Identity at the Center

• 0:09
  You're listening to the identity of the center podcast.
• 0:12
  This is the show that talks about identity and access
• 0:14
  management and making sure you know who has access to what?
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  Let's get started. Welcome to the identity of the
• 0:21
  center podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
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  Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you not too
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  bad? Yourself doing great.
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  I don't us today and they were part of the conference.
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  So just a reminder, were here at the authenticate conference 2022
• 0:35
  in Seattle. Put on by the fire, do it?
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  Lions and your Shaker the executive director has done some
• 0:42
  major solid by making the podcast Booth available for us
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  and making introductions to a lot of the guests that we've had
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  this week. So thank you to Andrew, and also
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  thanks for the donuts. Yeah.
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  More important. Who cares about other stuff?
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  Like it's like the donuts, you know, I'm a fan of any
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  conference that lets you kind of create your own thing.
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  So for those who weren't here and I'm sorry you missed it,
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  they had sort of These fresh like kind of like doughnut holes
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  and then they had the different, like toppings, you can put on
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  top of it like cinnamon and sugar.
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  And I think there was like strawberry and stuff like that.
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  So well done. I don't know if strategically it
• 1:19
  was the right decision to make because it was just after the
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  first morning sessions so I can kind of feel sort of like that
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  that sugar coma coming on a little bit.
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  So we're gonna have to fight through it.
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  Like the professionals that we are.
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  Jim yeah that might be diabetes but hopefully not yet Jim.
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  You're a total down. Best week.
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  Sometimes, let's go ahead and get to our guest.
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  We're very excited to have her here.
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  Her name is Sarah Clark. She's the senior vice president
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  for digital identity at MasterCard.
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  Welcome to the show. Thank you.
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  It's a pleasure to be here. Did you get any donuts?
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  I did not, I somehow missed that entire experience now, I'm
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  regretful. Yeah, okay.
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  Well, you can live vicariously through us and apparently,
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  diabetes. So thanks Jim.
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  Let's talk a bit about your identity background, because one
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  of the things we like to do on the show was whatever.
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  If someone new is to really kind of learn where they came from,
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  what their identity origin story is, and so we kind of helps put
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  the conversation in context, makka pakka, few different
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  things here today. But for those who aren't
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  familiar with Sarah, who is, you know, why did you get into the
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  identity space? Is something that you chose, or
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  did it choose you? So I've been in tech for about
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  25 years now and I've always been attracted to bleeding edge.
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  Really hard problems, I don't know.
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  I'm a glutton For complexity and maybe punishment, so to speak.
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  But regarding identity, I've been in the identity industry
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  for about a decade and it came about because I worked for a
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  company, and we were looking for a way to expand our products.
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  So, after doing market research with banks, we found that they
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  had a pretty big problem with kyc and friction.
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  And we thought we could solve that By expanding our product
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  set to go into identity, so that's how I ended up leading
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  and identity verification business for a number of years.
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  We became a global leader in digital identity verification
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  and we specialized in enabling people to use their mobile phone
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  to capture a photo of their government-issued ID as a way to
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  help Banks optimize their onboarding.
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  Us. So I did that for a number of
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  years and learned a lot about identity and quite frankly fell
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  in love with the space. So I ended up leaving in order
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  to seek broader experience. So I started my own consultancy
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  worked again with banks and other major corporations did
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  Consulting with some smaller companies and really got a
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  broader feel for the space. I also spent some time at a Her
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  in Biometrics and government platforms.
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  And eventually, I ended up a MasterCard where I really
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  believe that we are leading, what will be the future of
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  digital identity, and I'm sure we'll talk a lot more about
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  that. Sounds to me, like, guys look
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  like the Star Trek episodes, like the Enterprise, like
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  boldly, going where no other identities have gone before,
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  which is very cool. You gave a talk yesterday about
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  the use of Fido in a reusable digital.
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  Jenny Network for folks, who did not attend that or haven't yet.
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  Let's just say because we go to watch on replay.
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  Can you give us kind of a synopsis of what that that talk
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  was about. Yeah.
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  So let me start with what we're doing.
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  What my team is building at MasterCard.
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  So that is, in fact, a globally interoperable reusable digital
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  ID Network. And I always try to say that
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  without screwing it up, cuz there's quite a lot to say and
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  what that means in really simple terms, Means is you can take
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  your MasterCard and you can use it anywhere in the world.
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  You know what's going to happen? The merchant knows what's going
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  to happen and the issuer bank knows what's going to happen.
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  So it's a standard process, that's very easy, apply that
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  same concept to Identity. So, in the future, you will own
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  your own digital identity and you'll easily be able to use
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  that anywhere you want to do business with anyone in the
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  world. And what will facilitate that is
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  the ID Network by MasterCard. So reusable ID that you can
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  assert so you can share your identity and additional
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  credentials where you need to. So, yesterday, I was introducing
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  that concept to the audience because it's not intuitive to a
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  lot of folks that MasterCard would be in this type of
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  business, but it makes only as a new network.
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  And I was also talking about the importance of Fido with respect
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  to our vision. So in order to manage and share
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  your reusable ID, you would use a mobile app and Fido is how we
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  see individuals authenticating into that mobile app.
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  It standard it's easy for the end user and it's a fishing
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  resistant, very secure method. Authentication.
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  So, it's something that we have built into our reusable digital
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  ID experience. The seems like you're laying the
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  groundwork for what a lot of other organizations are going to
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  need down the road or you know maybe not in the financial
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  services industry. You Hennessy that way as well.
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  Yeah, in fact, my business works way outside of financial
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  services with respect to the use cases that were satisfying.
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  So for example, example, 1 driver for reusable ID, globally
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  is age verification. So, you know, rightfully so the
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  regulations are changing so that we have a more secure overall,
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  Global ecosystem when it comes to buying restricted Goods.
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  So, for example, in Australia, where the reusable ID network is
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  fully live, you can use your ID to assert your age in order.
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  To buy liquor online. And what's good about this is a
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  you know your kids won't be able to do that.
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  It's secured by your biometric. And you know as a guiding
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  principle, the platform is very secured and I can talk more
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  about that but the other benefit is that when you do share your
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  age, you're not sharing your full government issued ID with
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  that liquor. Vendor, you are sharing a proofs
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  that you are above the age required to make that purchase.
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  So that's a high-frequency activity and one, we're ideally,
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  you know, more data privacy is better because I'm sure we've
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  all observed that too much pii. Spread around everywhere is
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  creating breaches and creating egregious increases in fraud.
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  So, we're trying to create a platform of the future that can
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  be part of the solution. Sulfur that Can we talk a bit
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  about that? How that would work and sort of
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  the real world? Because I like this example of,
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  right? The age verification, right?
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  You went to the purchase of alcohol, which is fantastic.
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  I think about if I could borrow perspective, right?
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  You've got the bouncer at the door and they're checking IDs
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  and you're sharing way more information.
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  You're given your their entire ID, your name, address birthday,
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  all kinds of stuff. When all they really need to
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  know, is that binary decision, right?
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  Are you old enough to be in here?
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  It's either a yes or a. No, there's really no gray area
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  on that. One, and thats collecting a
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  bunch of a lot of different data you mentioned, having this app.
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  That would sort of be like the wallet right?
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  Think. I guess it's kind of stores this
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  information. How would that particularly
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  work? Is that, you know, something
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  that like MasterCard would, it would be like a MasterCard app
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  and then I don't know if you can talk about this.
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  Like, how would it work with other issuers?
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  For example, if there's a comparable Visa wallet or in
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  American Express, sort of wallet and making sure that things are
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  sort of interoperable and not getting into the Chelation which
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  frankly has been a concern sometimes around, like some of
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  the Fido folks of being locked to a specific platform, which I
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  think is getting better and there are certainly plans to
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  have more cross-platform, sinking kind of capabilities may
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  be in kind of walk us through like how you see this kind of
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  working in your mind's eye? Yeah sure.
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  So let me start with your example of the bouncer really
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  quick and then I'll get into the interoperability just to be
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  clear, a digital identity is not something that you can only use.
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  Route to, you know, to another mobile app or online it's
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  designed to be true, omni-channel.
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  And in fact, we're enabling call in Customer Support as well as
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  in-person use cases. So in the example that you just
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  gave were working, for example, in Brazil with check-in, use
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  cases to events. So the bouncer at the bar even
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  though that particular use case may Not be our Focus right now.
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  That's completely analogous. And I believe the future should
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  be that you just scan that yes or no.
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  When you're entering age, restricted areas.
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  And in fact, we're facilitating age discounts and other things
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  for in-person interactions such as rights on public transport to
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  answer question about interoperability.
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  So this is a big pillar of our vision is interoperability.
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  So the idea Network is designed to interoperate with other
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  identity wallets, as well as other identity providers.
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  So as an example, if there's an oem wallet and I carefully, sort
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  of talk about names or anything, but we are designed to
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  interoperate with an oem wallet that may be on your device and
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  you'll be seeing more about that in the future or perhaps there's
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  a domestic or national digital identity scheme than already
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  exists at scale. If that scheme wanted to enable
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  their citizens with cross-border capabilities, they could also
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  plug into the ID Network. So we're really focused on
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  providing the network, providing the sort of framework for
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  interoperability, which is global and that's its own whole
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  topic. And that can also you know, work
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  well, Create a true Global ecosystem.
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  I'm going through some words out there, but I'm assuming that
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  this architecture includes blockchain and includes
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  verifiable credentials mentioned, find out answers,
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  some kind of strong authentication capabilities.
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  I'm assuming that also there's maybe some gaps in the market.
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  That didn't fulfill your, you know, your need for your total
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  architecture. What was your approach to that?
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  Are you looking for? Did you look for like
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  best-of-breed Solutions and use some of those and and, you know,
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  integrate the rest and maybe you have to build some custom
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  components trying to get a vision for how did you go at?
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  Go about attacking from a technical perspective, such a
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  big architectural problem. So we do have a really strong
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  commitment to standards. We are not blockchain based
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  Clear at this point in time that might change in the future.
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  I don't know, but that is not the case right now.
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  Verifiable credentials have recently been ratified by the
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  w3c. We have embraced that and in
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  fact, we very much are aligned with the vision of an identity
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  Wallet. Not only having proof, like kind
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  of the core proof that you are who you claim to be backed by a
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  government issued credential. But you might other have other
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  pieces of verifiable credentials in your identity wallet.
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  So as an example we're working with universities in Brazil to
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  have a reusable ID, facilitate smoother, more efficient, more
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  secure University life, and there's multiple use cases
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  there. We envision that also becoming a
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  university credential that could then be used for student
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  discounts by retailers or specific loans by Services.
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  So, that is definitely the direction that we're moving in
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  and I think if you think about all the potential that just
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  rolls into a lot of value and a lot of easier experiences for
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  both the individual and the businesses.
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  So, you're here at the conference just like we are what
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  are some of the Highlight moments that have been sort of
• 14:27
  your purview as you've been through here and your
• 14:30
  experience? Well first I am impressed by the
• 14:35
  the attendants. There's a lot of very engaged
• 14:39
  folks from you know other parts of the world that have come to
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  this conference. It's my first time being at the
• 14:46
  specific conference so that is something that has really struck
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  me as being you know quite impressive in terms of the
• 14:54
  engagement and the attendance. And I mean part of what I'm here
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  to learn more about is passkey and everything that's happening
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  with Fido. Do I think it's really
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  groundbreaking? I think it's really exciting to
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  see apple Google and Microsoft Embrace that.
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  So that heart has been particularly interesting to me.
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  And you know, I'm sort of still thinking through what that means
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  in the broader context. I think a lot of us are but I've
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  really been kind of impressed with the forward momentum when
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  it comes to embracing the cross device capabilities of Fido
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  dance. It's, I'll give a shout-out to
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  Andy handle. He's one of the content chairs
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  for this. So, great job, Andy.
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  The content is top-notch. I know, MasterCard has been
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  really part of the fight Alliance for multiple years now,
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  I'm not sure how many, but seems to me like, it's a very future
• 15:52
  facing sort of adoption of this sort of growing standard, but it
• 15:56
  took years to get to where we're at today.
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  I guess, why is that? Or I guess why was that fight
• 16:01
  Alliance so important to mass card and what was it that
• 16:04
  MasterCard Sawdust? Yeah, we want to be part of this
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  as a general principle MasterCards.
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  Very engaged in standards on a lot of fronts and identity has
• 16:17
  been a theme of MasterCard for quite some time.
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  So the business that I lead is an emerging business but it's
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  something that has taken time to conceptualize and plan.
• 16:32
  But Fido in general, the Gov authentication.
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  I mean that's also a venturus when it comes to payments, you
• 16:39
  know, what is the future when it comes to verifying?
• 16:42
  You are you not just in the context of reusable ID, but also
• 16:47
  payments. So we have you know, many
• 16:50
  Innovative projects at MasterCard, and we have a lot of
• 16:54
  commitment to standards in general.
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  So as another example were also committed to the open ID
• 17:02
  Foundation, they've had quite a large presence.
• 17:05
  Here and I can name kind of numerous other trust over IP, I
• 17:10
  could kind of go on and on but we are engaged with and active
• 17:15
  members of quite a number of Standards groups.
• 17:18
  You chaired a little bit of sort of like your vision for identity
• 17:23
  or digital identity maybe at MasterCard.
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  First of all does it have a Zen in used to have a catchy name?
• 17:29
  Right? So we're calling passkey.
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  This thing that sort of the industry is adopted so I'd Love
• 17:35
  to hear more about sort of like your vision of how this works
• 17:39
  sort of in the future, because I'm picturing The Fifth Element
• 17:45
  and, you know, multipass in this thing that kind of does
• 17:48
  everything that gives people access to things share with us,
• 17:52
  you know, what is this this Grand Vision that you're looking
• 17:54
  to design. Yeah.
• 17:56
  So like I said it is a new network and with that comes kind
• 18:01
  of a separation in terms of the trust Mark that in Eventual,
• 18:06
  well, recognized that by. So, the catchy name is very,
• 18:09
  very simple, it's ID. So, we do have an ID Trustmark
• 18:16
  that we've started to move forward with and market and
• 18:20
  similar to the, you know, the MasterCard logo when an
• 18:25
  individual sees that, you know, whether it's on a sharing
• 18:28
  economy, site or to sign up for a wireless device.
• 18:32
  They'll know that they can use their They're digital ID to
• 18:36
  facilitate that transaction. And the concept is very simple.
• 18:41
  It needs to have simple user experience and very, very high
• 18:46
  trust. So for the individual, when they
• 18:50
  see that ID Trustmark, they should be able to scan their
• 18:54
  biometric. See, give consent to the date of
• 18:58
  their sharing and they're done. They don't need to scan a
• 19:01
  document. They don't need to fill out a
• 19:02
  form, you know. Future when they have multiple
• 19:06
  credentials that will just be sort of sent in that same one
• 19:10
  tap, give consent and you're done.
• 19:13
  And that's part of why Fido was important and the user
• 19:16
  experience around using a biometric to unlock your digital
• 19:20
  ID, it has to be very secure and very, very easy.
• 19:25
  Our other commitment to Market is higher trust.
• 19:28
  So I guess another Trend that I want to point out that were
• 19:32
  engaged with our digital ID. These mobile driver's licenses
• 19:37
  that are being issued by governments here in the United
• 19:40
  States, we have mobile driver's licenses that are still pretty
• 19:43
  nascent, but quite a number of states are beginning to issue
• 19:48
  them and that's something that will accelerate and it is
• 19:52
  happening globally. For example, we're live in
• 19:55
  Australia and we're also integrating to that type of
• 19:58
  ecosystem. So we're committed to also
• 20:03
  tapping in to emerge. In digital ID, initiatives by
• 20:07
  governments globally as part of our vision to bring higher trust
• 20:11
  along with easier user experience to the global market.
• 20:16
  Yeah, I've been thinking about what are the business outcomes
• 20:19
  that MasterCard is looking to achieve with this pretty major
• 20:22
  investment, right? I got to think it's reduction in
• 20:25
  fraud, better user experience of onboarding things like that.
• 20:30
  Are there other things? I mean, those are the two big
• 20:34
  pillars, you know, user experience equals top-line
• 20:39
  growth for businesses globally. When you can acquire users,
• 20:44
  facilitate transactions re-authenticate users.
• 20:48
  Get rid of password resets I guess passwords are going away
• 20:51
  but you know, there's a lot of list to businesses for just
• 20:55
  having an easier way to verify that somebody is in fact who
• 20:59
  they claim to be and it can also Open up sort of a world of new
• 21:04
  experiences. So one example of that is we're
• 21:09
  focused on a lot of hybrid user experiences so you start
• 21:12
  something online and then you finish it in person.
• 21:16
  Maybe curbside pickup is a good example of that.
• 21:19
  There's a lot of fraud with that because the wrong person goes
• 21:23
  and picks up the goods and then they're gone.
• 21:26
  So you can imagine there's just a whole world of different kind
• 21:30
  of experiences that you can create.
• 21:32
  Wait, if you can make that point of knowing you are, who you
• 21:35
  claim to be much, much easier and maybe knowing something
• 21:40
  about them. And or, you know, they meet the
• 21:43
  age, you can facilitate a lot of growth.
• 21:45
  And then, like you said, reduction and fraud is the other
• 21:49
  Big Value leaver. You know, synthetic identity
• 21:52
  fraud is out of control and the us alone last year.
• 21:56
  It Rose significantly and the measure known amount is to the
• 22:01
  tune of over. Twenty billion dollars being
• 22:04
  sucked out of financial services.
• 22:06
  Big problem account. Opening fraud Rose by 108
• 22:10
  percent last year. So reducing fraud and protecting
• 22:14
  not only businesses but individuals who are victims of
• 22:19
  identity fraud and you know, I'll just point out that the
• 22:22
  future is identity. And payments should merge will
• 22:27
  merge and you know, certainly that's part of the North Star
• 22:30
  Vision as well. Do you think card issuers and
• 22:34
  other institutions? Similar to yourself?
• 22:37
  Will have an easier time getting this done, because of the
• 22:41
  information that you already collecting is part of like an
• 22:43
  onboarding experience anyway, to get a MasterCard, right,
• 22:46
  whatever it may be. I think that onboarding question
• 22:48
  is a question that a lot of organizations struggle is, how
• 22:51
  do we get people to use our thing?
• 22:53
  You've already got a pretty good audience, right?
• 22:55
  People should be using or want to be using your product right
• 22:58
  for payments. And you know, things like that.
• 23:00
  Do you think that gives MasterCard and other similar
• 23:03
  organizations a leg up and sort of developing this you know it's
• 23:08
  more of like a centralized identity platform.
• 23:12
  Well I guess one corruption I might make is it's not
• 23:16
  centralized so we're not currently using blockchain as a
• 23:20
  technology yet, but we do follow a decentralized architecture and
• 23:28
  MasterCard as a company, has a huge commitment to data.
• 23:32
  Visee and doesn't actually store really any information about any
• 23:36
  individual and we think that's really key to the future of
• 23:39
  identity. I certainly think that's very
• 23:41
  key. You own your data, MasterCard
• 23:44
  does not own your data and will not be creating any form of
• 23:48
  centralized repository with your data.
• 23:52
  The reason that we think that we are well positioned to solve,
• 23:56
  this problem is more about the fact that we run another Network
• 23:59
  at scale. So we have the Ends with the
• 24:03
  governance, the operating roles you know in identity if a bad
• 24:09
  identity gets passed to a business and something harmful
• 24:12
  happens down the road, there needs to be some, you know,
• 24:16
  governance recourse rules for how that's handled and that is a
• 24:22
  key component of what we bring to the table.
• 24:24
  So if you look at self Sovereign identity, which is sort of a
• 24:29
  related, Area that we certainly Embrace many of the principles
• 24:35
  of in the industry. There's the concept of turning
• 24:40
  the triangle into a diamond because the governance part is
• 24:45
  actually important for it to get Traction in the commercial
• 24:48
  market. So using that Paradigm you can
• 24:52
  kind of think of MasterCard in our experience running a network
• 24:55
  at scale as bringing that and that's what I mean by us being
• 25:00
  committed to To really focusing on the network aspect of it.
• 25:05
  I'm glad you're able to clarify that because that was a, I want
• 25:08
  to make sure that point was very clear that the ownership of the
• 25:11
  data is not in one person's hands or one company's hands.
• 25:15
  But I'm glad you were able to help me clarify that my head so
• 25:18
  thank you. Yeah, take a revolutionary
• 25:20
  topic. The, I mean the way you're
• 25:22
  talking about it is like we've been hearing that from vendors
• 25:25
  in the space for years, but here's an actual practitioner
• 25:28
  who works for coming to says this, your data is not My
• 25:32
  company's data, we don't own your data, you own your data
• 25:36
  that's revolutionary to me. Yeah.
• 25:38
  I think it's revolutionary as well.
• 25:40
  And that's why honesty in business.
• 25:42
  Come on. Yeah, but, you know, along those
• 25:47
  lines just like interesting was, you were giving your origin
• 25:50
  story. How you got into I am, you're
• 25:52
  talking about several things that were you know what, I would
• 25:57
  call a traditional, I am track some of the stuff that you
• 26:00
  mentioned like kyc. That's the hot topic for a lot
• 26:04
  of folks and where they are in the career and solving those
• 26:07
  issues. Now so that was, you know, kind
• 26:10
  of part of your tracked, the question I'm going to hit you
• 26:12
  with is one that we did special episode on and we talked to a
• 26:16
  lot of practitioners or people have been in this industry for a
• 26:19
  long time. We all associate ourselves with
• 26:22
  identity and access management and now we've got this term
• 26:25
  digital identity. So the question I'm going to ask
• 26:28
  you is what's the difference between digital Unity and
• 26:32
  identity, and access management and there's no right or wrong
• 26:35
  answer you have there's no right or wrong answer and it's not an
• 26:37
  easy one. Yeah, I mean, I think to me, I
• 26:42
  do think the word digital identity is overused in the
• 26:46
  market, so the way that I see the future and really today is a
• 26:53
  digital identity is an individual's identity and
• 26:58
  honestly, I think it should be defined as an identity.
• 27:02
  That that individual owns and everything else kind of falls
• 27:06
  into the identity verification identity and access management,
• 27:11
  you know, identity proofing. There's a lot of terms and lingo
• 27:14
  that have been used for many years around that.
• 27:17
  So that's the way that I would like to see the market describe
• 27:22
  these things, which I know is maybe not the way, you know,
• 27:25
  most people would Define it. It's interesting.
• 27:30
  I think everybody defines a little bit.
• 27:32
  Early. But I'd like that definition
• 27:34
  because it aligns very much with everything you said today.
• 27:39
  Right? Is that, that Vision around
• 27:41
  ownership of the identity and your title being senior vice
• 27:46
  president of digital identity, right?
• 27:47
  It's not like an accident occurred, right?
• 27:51
  Yeah, exactly. It does interesting that we've
• 27:54
  asked that question, I think kind of officially now like 10
• 27:58
  12 times maybe and there's been 10 to 12 different, There's like
• 28:02
  it's it's fascinating that based on the person who's answering
• 28:07
  and their context that they're, you know, heading into the, I am
• 28:10
  space. It really shapes how they answer
• 28:13
  that question. So I think it's I think it's
• 28:15
  very interesting. I know you've got a flight to
• 28:17
  catch so we're going to help get you out of here on time and make
• 28:19
  sure you get home. But we want to end things on a
• 28:21
  lighter note and we were kind of talking about before we hit the
• 28:25
  record button here about some of the things you work on outside
• 28:28
  of identity. One of them was snowboarding and
• 28:31
  I'm just curious Yes, you know what is Your Bucket List?
• 28:34
  Snowboarding trip. So, yes, I am a snowboarder and
• 28:40
  I probably go down stuff that's, you know maybe not too smart for
• 28:44
  me to be going down, but I love it.
• 28:46
  I love the thrill and I just, you know, love black diamonds
• 28:50
  but I have actually never been snowboarding outside of the
• 28:54
  United States. So whether it's South America or
• 28:58
  the Alps, that's my bucket list. It's It's hard to kind of make
• 29:03
  the time for that kind of a trip but I'm gonna do it before.
• 29:06
  I stopped going down black diamonds.
• 29:09
  So I've never been skiing or snowboarding how do I get
• 29:13
  started? Like what is the pro tip that
• 29:15
  you can give me for me to get off my butt and try it?
• 29:19
  Well, I would go with snowboarding and take a lesson.
• 29:25
  That's it. I mean, take a lesson.
• 29:27
  It's always best to have somebody give you the right form
• 29:32
  instead of creating bad habits and hurting yourself, my tip is
• 29:39
  to wear those. You know, make sure you have
• 29:41
  this skiing pants because of you end up on your butt a lot.
• 29:45
  You don't want to be in jeans and, you know, long underwear or
• 29:48
  something and have a wet butt all day.
• 29:50
  Yes, it's not a good thing thumbs down.
• 29:55
  Let bots on the identity of the sender podcast.
• 29:57
  So, yeah. All right, we're going to go
• 29:59
  ahead and leave it there for now as someone decided to open the
• 30:03
  door. Thank you very much alive
• 30:04
  conference, any final takeaways Sarah as we kind of what you got
• 30:08
  on your flight here. Oh boy.
• 30:12
  That's that's a good one. I guess, check us out.
• 30:17
  And when we go to get more information on this, this is
• 30:18
  something that's publicly available that we can like,
• 30:21
  actually, you can go to ID service.com.
• 30:25
  Or you can find me on LinkedIn and shoot me a message and, you
• 30:30
  know, I'd love to learn more about, you know, Partners,
• 30:34
  customers what people are thinking, you know, it's a big
• 30:37
  Vision, a lot of moving parts and it's always good to connect
• 30:42
  with others in the industry. Yeah, that's how I found you.
• 30:45
  I just hear you up on LinkedIn and started following her.
• 30:49
  We are connected and the slaughter yourself so dangling
• 30:54
  could to follow So I include in our show notes, a link to your
• 30:58
  LinkedIn, and then also to ID service dot-coms, that way
• 31:01
  people can easily reference it. Thank you so much for being part
• 31:04
  of this very much appreciative that you're able to set aside.
• 31:07
  The time for us, we're going to go to leave it there for this
• 31:10
  week, any, if you have an ongoing for this now, but if you
• 31:15
  want to find us on the web, we're at age, 84 center.com, and
• 31:18
  we're on Twitter at, idac podcast.
• 31:21
  And with that, we'll talk with everyone in the next one.
• 31:23
  Thanks. Thanks for listening to the
• 31:29
  podcast. If you don't forget to
• 31:31
  subscribe.