Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / Travis Bryant: Terminal

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Travis Bryant: Terminal · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

0:30
Today, I've got Travis Bryant with me. This is a special interview for
0:34
me. Travis. You know, we Colin and I and Colin's not obviously
0:37
on this on this episode as of right now, he is in the middle
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of like a snowstorm, so he might pop on, he might not,
0:43
who knows what happens. But you know, a lot of bands like we'll
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interview and we like the band or whatever, but it's like not a band
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that has been like a part of our lives for twenty years. And Travis,
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you were a part of a project called Terminal back in the day in
0:59
the mid two thousand and that has been a band that to this day I
1:03
absolutely love. I still listen to you guys' record all the time. I've
1:08
even defended you guys on this podcast. I was just mentioning we play usually
1:12
we'll do like kind of game type of episodes, and I don't remember what
1:17
episode it was, but we did like maybe like underrated tooth and nail bands,
1:21
or maybe it was something about like tooth and nail bands based on like
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a certain genre. And I went just to the grave defending Terminal and why
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like Terminal should have been like one of the biggest bands out there and for
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whatever reason, and I'm sure we'll get into all of this, it just
1:34
didn't quite turn out that way. But I will still go to the grave
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believing you guys had what it took to be incredible, you know, to
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take off in the music industry, and anyway, I will still defend that
1:49
to my grave. So anyway, I'm sure we'll talk about terminal. But
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before we dive into all of that, how you doing today, Travis,
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I'm doing really well, thank you, And what an honor. That was
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a beautiful introduction. Dang, that was a cool thing to say. I
2:05
checked out the artists you all have interviewed on the podcast before, like earlier
2:12
this afternoon. I don't know why I haven't listened to it because it's like
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so up my alley to like check all of this stuff out. So that's
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cool and I'm glad to be able to share it and like just draw more
2:23
attention to it. But man, you've interviewed so many artists that were like
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so influential to me that like that was high honor the way you introduced me,
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So thank you. Let's talk about how you just even got into music.
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So before we dive into the history of Terminal. I'd love to just
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hear how you got into music. Obviously, it sounds like you grew up
2:45
with a lot of music like that that we had all grown up with,
2:47
and so I'm guessing like that might have inspired you to start playing guitar or
2:52
start singing or whatever it was. But I'd love to hear just kind of
2:54
those beginning years of how you got into music. Yeah, so I think,
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like if I'm being completely honest, and I'll try to be as honest
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as I can in this in this talk, but remember like my first time
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like really being like, man, I want to make music. I was
3:15
probably I don't know, like twelve years old or something, and like traded
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a dude like something I had of value at lunch for his like Marilyn Manson
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CD like the Antichrist Superstar album, and I was like, this is so
3:34
sick. And then I traded someone something else, like a talk boy pen
3:38
that I traded for at school, to like get a mini It was like
3:45
a mini cassette tape recorder. And I would like sit when I was in
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the bathroom and stuff, and just like do these like really dark like lyrics
3:53
like doing my vocals and stuff and listen to it back and be like,
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oh my god, I should I should be a singer or something. And
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that was like pretty early on. They got like really into like rap music
4:03
and skateboarding. And then when I got into high school, like my junior
4:10
high merged with another junior high, and I met these kids who like like
4:16
played instruments and stuff, and I like went to one of their birthday parties
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and they like, you know, like the their parents like set it up,
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like the garage door came up and they started playing my Own Summer by
4:30
the deaf Tones, and I was like, shit, this is so cool.
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And so I spent the night at the guy who's playing guitar Sky's house
4:41
and recorded a demo of me singing bored by the Deaftones. And do you
4:48
like, I mean, did you do like the whispery vocals too that Chino
4:53
does? Oh yeah, well yeah, I was doing like the whole thing.
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And he like on his fo or track or whatever like to the song.
5:01
You know, I'd probably just over the song. And he went to
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school and was like, Travis has like vocals. And then these guys found
5:10
me. It was Matt and Ryan, who were in Terminal and Matt was
5:15
the guitar player. Ryan was the drummer, and they were like, here
5:19
you got like vocals. We're like we've been having a band for a lot.
5:24
This sounds like a Napoleon Dynamite kind of like scenarios. It's so good.
5:30
They're like, we heard you have some vocals. Give me those vocals.
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Yeah, They're like, come try out or something, and so I
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did and they, for however, terrible and like I mean it was so
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bad, you know, like a little kid voice, like my voice is
5:49
still high and stuff, but it was like little kid voice. Like they
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let me like start being in their band, and they were like immensely like
6:00
advanced and like musically talented. They're like really good players and you know like
6:06
cut their teeth playing. Like there was another band from small town Mansfield where
6:11
we were doing this, Mansfield, Texas called Embodiment and had been like a
6:16
death metal band before this current time, and like they like they could like
6:20
play that shit and stuff. Yeah, and then they went kind of like
6:24
what what like kind of alternative metal or something like that, right, yeah,
6:27
like kind of deftenzi alternative metal. And it was still like awesome and
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then like then there was no screaming and stuff and it was just like rock
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and it was it was so good, like I still like I think today
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with like the heavy shoegaze thing and stuff, like Embodiment would be like a
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great band in that scene. Like they were just so good and like all
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these low you know, they played seven strings, all these like low chords
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and stuff. But yeah, so I connected with them and that was kind
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of the beginning of my That was at least the beginning of playing music.
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I was like suddenly like in a band and stuff, and it was like
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kind of mind blowing. They took me to a show of two like local
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bands that were like you know, toured nationally and we're like in that scene
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at a place called Club four one two, which was like the Hub and
7:24
DFW and you're laughing because of the four one two thing, Like yeah,
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it's just like that heard every like every band, every club. They all
7:32
were like some sort of like singlet to get it in single, you know,
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sell by word and then like yeah, like a three three digit thing,
7:41
it's a Bible verse or whatever. But yeah, so it was like
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I think it was like Embodiment and Travail playing on like Halloween night and they
7:53
were just so sick, Like it was so cool, and I'd never been
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really to a show in my life, like a concert, let alone a
8:01
show, and like it was just too sick, and so that was that
8:07
was the genesis. Yeah, it's so interesting again, Like you know,
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I had a lot of those same experiences growing up, going to middle school,
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high school, going to those kind of shows. At the time,
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growing up in South Dakota, Life Light Music Festival was like a big thing.
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I know, if you ever heard of life Light, it was like
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it was like Cornerstone, but way bigger. But it was free, so
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they would get like usually I think at the height they were getting like two
8:31
hundred and fifty thousand people. Yeah, it was like it was like,
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I mean, it immediately like doubled the population of South Dakota. Whenever the
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life Light weekend was who were the headliners like that? I mean, they
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would have like I mean and so here. The other thing that was cool
8:46
about Lifelight was they would have like kind of the more CCM classic CCM artists
8:50
like Newsboys or Audio A or switch Foot or you know whoever. You know,
8:56
need to Breathe those kind of bands, but then they also had like
9:00
a stage that was kind of more like the teen stage, which they would
9:03
have like a lot of the Tooth and Nail Flicker records, those type of
9:05
artists. So yeah, like when I was a middle school even before that,
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I was like even in grade school started going to Life Flight. And
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it's interesting, like I had those kind of experiences of going to these kind
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of shows and being like, Wow, I would love to do that,
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but it never got to a point where I'm like, I'm gonna actually learn
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guitar well enough to be able to do that someday, or I'm I'm gonna
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learn how to sing one can you? Yeah, just be the singer.
9:31
No, you don't have to learn well, I'm not a good but I
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was. I never like learned how to sing well enough. So I just
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I never I never got to that point where I was like, I'm gonna
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dedicate that, you know, dedicate myself to that. So it's interesting,
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Like a lot of people, you know, they really they would have these
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moments where they're like, Oh, I'm gonna like totally that's what I want
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to do in life, and I like I feel like I had those sort
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of experiences, but I just never got to the point where I'm like,
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I'm actually gonna dedicate and be disciplined in dedicating myself to this. But anyways,
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I always find that interesting, Like I totally went a totally different,
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uh you know, career track. But I often like have this nostalgia or
10:05
not really a nostalgia, this romanticizing around. It would be so amazing to
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like be in a even a band, like a small band that just like
10:13
tours around the country for a year, just you know, playing shows like
10:18
I would I would love to do that just for a year. Yeah,
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I think that's a good time to do it for But yeah, it was
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amazing like getting to play shows and there was like a real scene, you
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know, like there was a scene here and it was that was that was
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like maybe one of the most compelling things, like as you're as I was
10:39
a very young, you know, kid and kind of teenager trying to figure
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out like who I was and like where you want to find out where you
10:50
can fit in, but also like where do you want to fit in?
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And it was such a cool thing to be a part of like all these
10:56
like musicians and there were bands to look up to there were bands that looked
11:03
up to us. You know, there was just like this whole kind of
11:07
microcosm hierarchy of like things and the way they worked and like the way people
11:13
helped each other and the way people like showed up and supported things and stuff
11:18
that was just it was really cool. You know, like maybe it was
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something that was neat outside of like sports or something in Texas. You know,
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like there really wasn't like what else is there, you know, like
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it was it was a cool thing to happen upon football or Terminal. Those
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are the only two things in Texas. Choose one, Choose one, yeah,
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or embodiment three things, I guess. Yeah, yeah, Well let's
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talk about just how Terminal formed it. So it sounds like you and a
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couple of the other guys got to know each other in high school, and
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I'm sure like that's where Terminal was born. Like where would you kind of
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like maybe start to really put the like true origins of like all right,
12:01
this project is like Terminal. It's not just us hanging out playing some music
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anymore. I Mean, so those guys had had like they had been aware
12:11
of that scene and stuff through like junior high and like maybe I don't know,
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like maybe like intermediate school, like maybe since like fifth or sixth grade,
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I don't know, but they they were like very serious from the get
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gos, like we're getting ready to like play shows and stuff. So like
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I just kind of like you know, jumped into the deep end with that,
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and like they were you know, I wouldn't say like professional or anything,
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but like you know, they were very serious about it and like had
12:43
aspirations and like we're gonna like start playing shows, like shows. That was
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the priority. It wasn't like we're going to get a recording, which nowadays
12:54
with like access to recording, like maybe things start there a little more often.
12:58
But for us, it was like we got to start playing shows.
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We'll play anywhere everywhere, and you know, we would play several times a
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weekend just anywhere that would book us with whoever would you know, be playing
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trying to I guess, you know, I guess we're thinking like build a
13:20
following, but I think we were like maybe more so like trying to get
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good and trying to like you know, just put on a really good show
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and stuff. And like it was very like performance focused and stuff. So
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yeah, we're just like playing all of these local churches venues, and then
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we were called Letter twelve. Oh that's kind of like the point that's worth
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talking about, and that's what we got. We were called that when we
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got signed to Tooth and Nail and you know, like we finally got to
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open for that band Travail that I talked about. They were like our heroes
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and we played our set and like they watched it. You know, we
14:09
like saw them from the stage because there weren't that many people there and they're
14:13
like, oh my god, like our heroes are watching us play, and
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they were like, you guys are really good. Like let's do more shows
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and let's like kind of the thing just kind of grew where suddenly we were
14:26
opening for you know, when we became like that band that like when under
14:33
Oath came through town, or like Norma Jean or whoever, Like, we
14:37
were getting booked on these shows and generally, like it feels like such a
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it was like stuff that we probably took for granted or like cause we were
14:50
working really hard. But when we would open for these bands, a lot
14:56
of times they liked us and they were watching us and they liked us,
14:58
and they would you know, kind of connect and we'd become friends and now
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we're like texting, we're staying in touch, and we're continuing to you know,
15:09
express our desire to like push this thing forward. And we opened for
15:15
a really big show that was like it was like this crazy show in like
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Arlington, Texas and it was like Zao Unearthed. God, I shouldn't forget
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the other bands because it was like seven good bands and we got to open
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and the guys from OnEarth. I just imagine you guys playing before Unearthed in
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ZAO like yeah, and we did, you know, like it was like
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I mean like everything else was probably like the same. Like we were heavier
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back then, like we were a lot heavier and would yeah, yeah,
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screamed a lot and wow, wait, are are there any I don't know
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if I've ever heard any Letter twelve stuff. Is there anything on the internet
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that is out there that you could like because I'd love to hear you,
16:02
like legitimately scream in the way that you would have back then. Yeah.
16:07
It was kind of wild, But yeah, I can I can send you
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some stuff. I'm sure I can track it down. I think Matt has
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it all on a hard drive or something. But yeah, we were like
16:15
a lot heavier back then. And the guitar player of Unearthed, Ken Susci,
16:21
was like, you guys got to make it up to Boston and like,
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I'll I want to record you guys on like tracking bands now and stuff.
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And so we did this tour with a friend of our, like some
16:33
friends in a band called Tomorrow's Rescue that they were like great, they were
16:37
getting like courted by major labels. They should have been like a stained or
16:41
something. They were too good. And we broke off from the tour and
16:48
went up to Boston recorded a demo with Ken from Unearth, and that was
16:53
kind of our thing that we started shopping recorded another demo and then that's it's
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when we recorded with a local guy in town named Braxton who was also just
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in like a fucking hardcore band or and that was that was the one that
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we When we finally gave that to the Under Oath guys when they were in
17:11
town, they took it straight up to Chad at Tooth and Nail and we're
17:15
like, you should sign this band. They're awesome, And he like called
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us when we were in class in high school and was like, do you
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guys want to get signed. I'm like, I'm walking out of walking out
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of classroom right now. Yeah, Calculus just finished? Yeah, oh dude,
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not Calculus. It was probably like a pre ap art or something.
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I am out of here, like get lost. So yeah, so it
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happened. So you did you guys get signed sort of under the impression or
17:47
maybe for even you and maybe even for Tooth and Nail, were you signed
17:51
under the impression that you're sort of like more of a heavy band. Yeah,
17:56
I bet that they were. So when we signed to Tooth and Nail,
18:00
they were looking to do the thing that I think they did it for
18:04
a few bands where they were releasing it on like releasing albums on Tooth and
18:11
Nail and Solid State, and they thought that we were going to be a
18:15
band that they did that for. And when it came to writing the record,
18:22
I was I was trying to push us away from like the singing hardcore
18:29
scream o thing and more towards like a just a rock found like with like
18:38
you know, like some yelling and like heavy vocals and stuff, but like
18:42
more I don't know, like Recover was like our hero band from Texas,
18:51
Jimmy World, Like right, you know, Glass Jaw. Those were probably
18:56
like some of our biggest influences. Yeah, I was. I was consciously
19:00
wanting to push this away from that, mostly because I couldn't. That was
19:06
what I was listening to and I couldn't really keep my voice on tour doing
19:08
like the heavy stuff. I didn't. Nowadays everyone has like screaming techniques and
19:15
things, and their coaches too, They've got their Yeah, yeah, there
19:18
are coaches and all that stuff, and like there was none of that back
19:22
then. So I was just kind of shredding my voice every night on tour
19:27
live. So it was touring was like really hard. It's interesting, like,
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you guys and the label seem to have that impression. Did they?
19:36
Did Solid Seat have or Tooth and Nail? Did Tooth and Nail have any
19:41
sense of your singing voice? Because that's like for me as a listener of
19:47
Terminal, I'm like, that's what stands out or what seems to stand out
19:51
the most. I mean, obviously everybody in the band is incredible, but
19:55
your voice is your singing voice in particular, is so talented. Like did
20:00
they have any sense of like what was there in terms of your singing or
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did they just only get kind of like the heavier stuff from you. Yeah,
20:07
I mean there was there was definitely by like the demos that under Oath
20:12
took up to them, it was mostly singing or whatever, but there was
20:18
just more more screaming, yelling whatever it was that I was doing, Like,
20:23
so it wasn't just like a whole screaming song and they're like, well,
20:26
yeah, yeah, all of a sudden, now it's like now it's
20:30
just it's an emo band instead of a screamo band or something. Yeah.
20:33
No, I mean it probably was a little bit not what they expected because
20:41
I think under Oath was having like this, you know, like Meteoric Rise,
20:47
and I'm sure they were like, this will fall in line behind that,
20:51
and the album that we gave them probably couldn't have done that or maybe
20:56
was like you know, but they had bands that they knew what to do
21:00
with that, you know, like Amber ln May. Yeah, yeah,
21:03
stuff like that was happening. So like there was definitely like there were definitely
21:07
other paths, but yeah, I think they thought we were going to be
21:12
like a little more on the edge or something. Well, so you're obviously
21:21
you're talking about kind of the the signing and kind of those beginning years.
21:25
So eventually you record the album and again, obviously it kind of turns out
21:29
a little like lighter than certainly Letter twelve was. I'm just curious about,
21:36
like it seemed as if like you signed you the album came out, and
21:40
then like quickly after there's the breakup. So it's just it was so quick.
21:45
I'm curious about like around that time. And we can talk more extensively
21:48
about the breakup here a little bit, but I'd love to just like what
21:52
was going on in that very quick space. It seemed like maybe like a
21:56
year even so we recorded the album before we had actually signed a contract.
22:03
They they flew us up to Seattle and like, you know, we met
22:07
with Brandon Ebel and we did you know, like they kind of like were
22:12
like this could be so cool for you guys, and where we were like
22:17
legitimately kids, you know, we were eighteen years o. Had you guys
22:22
you mentioned a little bit about like I was just like leaving like art class
22:26
or whatever, like had you graduated at that point yet or were you still
22:29
in high school? We had not graduated. When they like made us and
22:33
when they were like, hey, we want to sign you, but you
22:37
know, we graduated high school and then you know we were and talks and
22:42
courting and all that stuff. And then a band had to like cancel some
22:51
studio time and they just had It was Aaron Sprinkle's understudy at the time.
22:56
His name was Zack Hodges, and he was, I mean so talented.
23:00
He was like the engineer who's like doing all of everything, while like you
23:04
know when a producer gets to that point, somebody's doing all of the technical
23:08
stuff and they've just taught them well and stuff, and like I understand how
23:14
that works. But Zach was like immensely talented. But he was supposed to
23:18
record a band that I can't remember their name. They were like more on
23:22
the on the Christian contemporary tip than like stuff like we were into, but
23:29
like they were actually really good, like they're kind of cold Play sounding.
23:33
They canceled, and Tooth and Neil called us and they were like, we've
23:37
gotten opening in October. Could you guys be ready to record an album?
23:41
And like would you do it? And stuff, and you know, we
23:45
were thinking about all of the producers we wanted to record with and stuff,
23:48
and we just got together and we were like, yeah, let's do it.
23:52
So I kind of just locked myself in the bedroom and just wrote like
23:57
a madman. And we practiced all all the time and went up to Seattle
24:03
and recorded our album with Zach in the basement of the Tooth and Nail offices.
24:10
For the most part, we did drums at a vast where like you
24:14
know, like legendary Seattle studio like Modest Mouse minus the Bear, like all
24:19
these cool things up there, like they had recorded there. But that was
24:26
it was. Yeah, it was like very fast paced, and we were
24:29
not signed when like mixes were coming back and stuff, and we were like
24:34
should we shop these to another label? Is this like would that be like
24:40
morally reprehensible? And you know you're so young at that point too, It's
24:47
like what you There's no way you would have ever figured out any contract stuff
24:49
at that point unless you had like some lawyer. But like who what eighteen
24:53
year old is even going to be able to like figure that out? Right?
24:56
No? Yeah, we ended up getting got Bradford, who had done
25:00
like the thrice major label deal and stuff. Like we got a good lawyer
25:04
to be like to I mean, god, he was probably just like again
25:11
like some paralegals like looking over the thing, and he's like cool, like
25:18
you know, like sign it, guys, but he looked out for us
25:21
a little bit and like trying to figure it out because Tooth and Nail was
25:23
doing very long deals with you know, not co publishing, but like split
25:33
publishing. You know, they would take some of the band's publishing rights and
25:36
stuff, and we ended up signing something that we probably like fundamentally disagreed with,
25:42
but it was I think we were just kids and we were just ready
25:48
to to like take a next step. You know, you get so eager.
25:55
So yeah, the sense and again, like I'm somebody who grew up
26:00
loving Tooth Andnail and I don't really have any opinions about Brandon Ebel at all.
26:06
The sense I've gotten from like Tooth and Nail at that time was,
26:10
you know, they they would sign bands, young bands like you guys who
26:15
are literally like about to graduate high school, sign these bands for like four
26:19
or five albums, and then if at any point they wanted to drop you,
26:23
they would drop you. But if you were starting to become big,
26:27
then they you're locked in, you know, like a band like under Oath.
26:32
It's like all right, we signed you. Now you're you're locked in
26:33
for four years because you're on the rise and you're actually gonna make money for
26:37
us, or if you're like a band, that's all right, we're you
26:40
know, locked in for four albums. But if they if you're if you're
26:44
not going to become a big thing, then they're just going to drop you
26:47
right away. That was a sense. That's the sense that I've gotten from
26:49
them. Yeah, so yeah, that was the end. I think that
26:55
that that is honestly a common deal structure in the industry is, yeah,
27:02
there's like you sign for the album and then there are label options. So
27:08
especially when you're like a young band, I bet there are different deals for
27:11
like if you're like Taylor Swift or something. But yeah, so it was
27:17
like we I think we had the one record that we were locked in for
27:23
and then two label options. So if they wanted us to do a follow
27:29
up, we were in contract to do that, And if they wanted us
27:33
to do a third record, we were in contract to do that. But
27:37
yeah, like and joking when I said Brandon Evil, Brandon did great things
27:41
for a lot of bands. There was just you know when you're like young
27:45
and punk rock and then there's like this money making machine, like you sort
27:52
of hate it, you know, like even when it's serving you, you
27:56
hate it because it's not what you love about music, you know, Like
28:02
I mean, I love that I was able to find out about all of
28:04
these incredible bands because Tooth and Nail did a great job promoting them and growing
28:11
exposure for them. But at the same time, maybe you still kind of
28:17
like resent the man or something. I don't right, No, yeah,
28:21
I get that again. I want I want to get to eventually the breakup.
28:25
But as somebody who grew up loving tooth and Nail bands like yourself,
28:33
how did being a part of the business of Tooth and Nail maybe shape your
28:41
enjoyment of tooth and Nail bands, like or if it did at all,
28:45
I'm just curious, like, what how did that relationship of actually being sort
28:48
of a laborer of Tooth and Nail, if you will, How did that
28:52
shape your like listening or fan experience of all these other tooth and nail tooth
28:59
and Nail bands that like you've loved and grown up with. M That's a
29:03
great question. I don't know that it did. I don't know like how
29:10
heavy the role in shaping it was I think for us, you know,
29:14
there was plenty of like I mean, God, Tooth and Nail provided us.
29:18
The most incredible opportunity is like a you know, a local band from
29:23
Mansfield, Texas who got to record an album and live in Seattle for you
29:30
know, I was there for like almost three months, I think because I
29:33
had to go back to finish vocals. You know, like we're having these
29:38
incredible experiences and that was cool. You would meet bands who were like kind
29:44
of resentful and like hateful about the label. Everyone probably had like some negative
29:52
things to say, which is like I think, probably pretty normal. You
29:56
know, like there's not an employer any you know, like what what is
30:00
beyond critique? Like, probably nothing. But it was interesting to see these
30:08
bands that we you know, we were aspiring to their careers and seeing how
30:12
they felt about like their futures based on you know, where they were and
30:18
what was going on from And I think everyone is inclined to want more.
30:22
And if you've made it this far, it's probably because you have a tremendous
30:29
amount of belief in yourself. And sometimes when you don't, when you're not
30:37
you know, just skyrocketing, you blame other circumstances. But I don't know,
30:41
Like Chad Johnson, R. A and R was like the most amazing
30:45
dude ever. Yeah, God, I love Chad. You know, we
30:52
we had a pretty good experience. I think we probably let them down more
30:56
than they let us down. You know, like I think they try,
31:00
they they they gave us. You know, we didn't work with an expensive
31:04
producer or anything like that, so they got in pretty cheap on our record.
31:07
But I do think that they were behind it until we, you know,
31:15
defaulted on the on the agreement. Well let's talk along those lines and
31:21
like what what Basically my question is why was there a breakup? I mean,
31:26
I'm I'm still like and I feel like, were you on a labeled
31:30
episode, like the labeled podcast yeah with with Emergant And I'm sure I listened
31:37
to that a few years ago, but I just like I still am like
31:41
I felt like the sound everything was there, other than maybe like the the
31:48
the rise of you know, getting the airplay or whatever it is, but
31:51
like it felt like everything was there. It's just like it's like, oh,
31:53
it's it's all there, and then it ends, and so I'm just
31:56
curious, like what what was the reason for the breakup. So the breakup
32:02
of Terminal was that was a very it's a very like raw thing like and
32:09
it's kind of still raw, like I don't know it, like it's like
32:15
this wound that heals a little bit, you know, based on the people
32:20
in our relationships and then like becomes raw again. Or that's what it has
32:25
been over time. But so when Terminal broke up on the last tour before
32:35
we broke up, like Lucas who has now passed away, he passed away
32:40
from cancer. I want to say a few years ago, but you know,
32:45
like now like just time is passing so quickly. It was a few
32:52
years ago he and I. He was our bass player. Our original bassist
32:59
was Kevin Mcalli, and at some point we like let him go and we
33:06
got Lucas in the band. Lucas was playing with other bands like locally,
33:12
and he was just he was like a powerhouse live like he had just the
33:15
moves and he was he was just kind of like a thing to behold,
33:22
and so we were like, he's the dude who should play bass, Like
33:27
he's he's got it, And we got Lucas in the band and he and
33:37
I like had just really started like grinding gears with each other, like we
33:44
were just not getting along. And I think, looking back, I guess
33:49
I wasn't getting along with anyone, but yeah, there was there was just
33:58
some rub, like there was some weird like I I think that I like
34:02
put a lot of my heart and soul into writing the Terminal album, and
34:09
maybe being so young and in doing that kind of took for granted how much
34:15
all of them put their heart and soul into writing that album. And I
34:21
think I was bearing more of the writer's share than anyone else by my own
34:28
will. Like that. That was also like a big change in the band
34:31
like before, like you know, you remember back to the Genesis when when
34:37
the whole thing started, I was a dude who like couldn't sing and recorded
34:45
a demo and they were like, we're great musicians. Come with us,
34:49
we'll show you the way, we'll make you better, and they did.
34:53
And I had started writing music and like writing the music, not just the
35:00
vocals and melodies. And I think that was a really that was way more
35:07
contentious and like harder for everyone than I realized. And I think if I
35:10
had been a better and more diplomatic person at that time. I could have.
35:20
I could have made that better for everyone, but I but I wasn't.
35:24
I was an eighteen year old kid. Yeah, how much do you
35:28
think of that? Like really is because you know, we look back on
35:31
our lives and we're like, yeah, when I was eighteen or nineteen,
35:34
I was like a dick. Like that's just how I was. And probably
35:37
most people when they look back at their eighteen or nineteen year old self,
35:40
they probably were like, eh, I would have changed some things, like
35:45
I would imagine. The tough thing is is like probably one of the things
35:47
that you maybe are most known for in your life is this thing that you
35:51
did when you were eighteen or nineteen. Yeah, and also knowing the fact
35:55
that you are an eighteen or nineteen year old, and that's going to like
35:59
shame the dynamics of like what's happening at that time. Oh my god,
36:04
you put that perfectly. I mean, like that's also a weird thing.
36:07
It's like nobody calls me to talk about anything I've done since you know what
36:14
I mean, Like it was a really special, important thing that happened in
36:19
my life. But yeah, I mean like like Facebook, I hope you're
36:23
not on social media because it's I think it's does weird things to people,
36:30
and I am on it and it does weird things to me, but it
36:36
shows me, like my memories from like six years ago, and I'm like,
36:40
oh, God, like makes my skills the things I said, the
36:45
way I was like, you know, consciously publicly communicating, and yeah,
36:51
we were young, and we were really young and had a lot of you
36:55
know, all of our backgrounds. I think there was a lot of like
37:01
trauma and like challenges in all of them. And like none of us,
37:06
I don't think any of us like we're like unloved or anything like that.
37:12
You know, like I won't mistake how bad things can be for people like
37:15
we, but like we're all coming from weird like broken brokenish homes and things
37:23
like that, and like just stuff that you don't realize that like you're going
37:28
to have to learn how to unlearn some of your behaviors and how to like
37:34
consciously deal with stuff that like life and relationships will continue to throw at you.
37:42
But I don't know if I'm making excuses for myself here. I'll jump
37:45
back into the thing Lucas and I were really not getting along, and I
37:53
kind of like put the band and our booking agent and everyone on this notice.
37:59
It was like he's out or I'm out, and I like, it
38:02
was like this really tumultuous night when our van was broken down in Phoenix and
38:09
I was mean to Lucas. I'll never forget that at the pool or like
38:15
waiting for our van to get fixed, and you know, it was on
38:17
the phone with our agent. All of us are on the phone probably with
38:23
people, and you know, things carried on from there, maybe a few
38:29
days, a few dates into California, and I woke up one night and
38:39
I'll tell the full story. This is actually like really weird. I woke
38:45
up one night to our our buddy who was coming on tour with us.
38:49
His name was Chris, and he woke me up in the van and he
38:53
was like, hey, man, you've been sleep in the van. You
38:55
need to come inside. I go inside and I see these brownies and I'm
38:59
like, I'm gonna eat one and he was like those are weed brownies?
39:01
Like do not? So I was like okay, well cool. And everyone
39:07
was asleep, you know, on floors and couches everywhere, and there was
39:13
like just this like table full of liquor at this guy Charlie's house, like
39:20
Charlie, like he he signed like the Starting Line and Days Away and all
39:25
these amazing bands, and he was just like it was the band house if
39:29
he came through. Like our booking agent very early on hooked us up with
39:31
Charlie. He was like the best host. He was cool, he cooked
39:37
well, like he was just an awesome guy. But there was all this
39:43
like tons of bottles of liquor, and I just went in and like we
39:46
had a code in our band, like we didn't drink, We didn't cuss,
39:52
or we tried not to cuss, and we didn't like you know,
39:59
have with chicks or like you know, like like mess like be promiscuous outside
40:07
of like probably like real feelings and real like commitment to a relationship. And
40:14
I know that that was probably so off putting in square to every band we
40:19
toured with, But that was a great code and accountability to have as a
40:24
young person going on tour, you know, like as like a sixteen year
40:30
old through eighteen year old going on tour. Like man, that was indispensably
40:35
helpful to not just mess my life up. But I started like sipping from
40:40
all of those bottles, and I went to bed, like I went to
40:45
bed before I fell to anything. And I woke up in the morning and
40:49
there was no one in the house, and I was like, where is
40:52
everyone? You know? And I opened the front door and our van's still
40:57
outside, and the ban doors are over and everyone's sitting in there, and
41:00
I'm like, oh shit, like this isn't good. And I went out
41:07
there and I sat in the van and I listened to every one of those
41:12
dudes basically be like, you've made me miserable and you're an awful person.
41:17
I don't know if it's awful person to do that with or awful person,
41:22
but it was it felt like awful person, you know. And it was
41:28
incredibly rough, you know, like on tour you kind of like I don't
41:34
know if this is true for every band, but it was for hours,
41:36
like you'd kind of like spend some time with someone, Like there's like a
41:39
week or two of tour that you're like hanging out with mad a lot,
41:43
and then you're like hanging out with James a lot, and then you're hanging
41:45
out with Lucas and like you're you're all sick of each other and so you're
41:52
just kind of like I don't know. It's kind of like an ebb and
41:55
flow to maintain relationships, you know, overpre is is real in any relationship
42:02
or whatever. But yeah, I listened to those guys just lay into me,
42:09
and our booking agent came over. He was an Orange County so he
42:16
came over and he sent all of those guys to watch a Batman movie at
42:21
the theater, and he just came and talked to me, and he was
42:24
like, hey, man, like, if you want to keep this going,
42:30
if you're not done, they're done. Those guys are going home like
42:34
they're done. If you want to keep this going, you need to let
42:37
me know if you believe in it, if you believe in yourself, like
42:40
whatever I believe in you. And so, you know, the last image
42:46
of the thing was them like I got one bin of merch, my like
42:52
half stack Marshall cabinet, my guitar, and they took off back to Texas
42:59
and I was the around the curb, you know, like and so we
43:01
rented a minivan and I finished the tour acoustic or just like playing my guitar
43:07
electric and singing, and it was a wildly like I think that was a
43:13
traumatic experience. That I've like in therapy and stuff like I've had to like
43:20
go back and face that one. And I'm not saying I'm a victim in
43:24
that, you know, Like I don't think that anyone or I don't know,
43:30
I'm not willing to say that anyone like told me I made them feel
43:32
bad. Who I didn't make feel bad? You know, like that that
43:37
wasn't what killed it for them, but it killed it and that was the
43:43
end. Again, It's like somebody who I don't remember exactly like how old
43:50
I was at the time, maybe eleven or twelve, but I just remember
43:52
like thinking, like this band is so freaking good, and then it just
43:58
all of a sudden, I'm like it just ended, and I've like maintained
44:01
that, right, So I just I've maintained that feeling around that this band
44:06
could have been so so big, Like I truly still believe that, Like
44:08
I think you guys had the talent. I think your vocal talent was there.
44:13
I think you wrote catchy songs, but also like had kind of this
44:16
like different edge to you. There's just like everything about it. I'm like
44:21
also like that music scene at the time, like there was a lot of
44:22
really great kind of like emo like alternative stuff coming on at the time,
44:29
even outside of like the Christian music industry. I'm just like everything about this,
44:32
I'm like that this could get big, and it just it ended really
44:37
quickly, and you know, and those guys went on, you know,
44:39
I know, like a number of them went on to form O Sleeper and
44:42
I've I've always loved O Sleeper, but yeah, I've just I've always like
44:45
thought, I'm like it was there, like it was, it was so
44:49
close to like I think eventually maybe breaking through, you know, hindsight's twenty
44:52
twenty and who knows what could have happened. But I am like one of
44:55
those people. I'm absolutely convinced like everything was there to become really yeah,
45:00
it would have been so cool. I don't know, like it would have
45:04
been cool if I was self aware enough to know I was like making them
45:07
feel bad, It would have been self aware. Like it would have been
45:12
cool to know how to talk to each other and like express like ourselves.
45:19
You know, I think all of us had no real like communication skills,
45:23
no real role models for that. You know, there was so much that
45:29
was missing. But yeah, like it kind of just went up in flames,
45:34
and it was a real shame because I think I feel how you do,
45:39
Like, I don't think I've truly believed in anything that I've been a
45:45
part of as much as I believed in that band. And some of that
45:50
was just young dumb confidence, you know, like most of it was.
45:55
But we also had something really special and those guys were like when we you
46:02
know, when we got back together later in life and stuff, it was
46:07
still like just the most magical thing when we would all get together. It
46:13
was hilarious, goofy. It was it was like a beat wasn't missed and
46:20
that was that was like that was validating, you know that there was just
46:27
something special with that group of guys. Well along those lines like where would
46:32
you say you're at right now with Terminal? Obviously, you guys played at
46:36
Furnessfest a few years ago. I was there at the show. I think
46:38
it was at the entire show, and I was one of those people somewhere
46:43
around the stage just singing along with my you know, just singing my heart
46:46
out. There were people singing along that was well, I don't I mean,
46:52
I'm sure there were other people, but I certainly was one of them.
46:53
But Yeah, Like where would you say things stand now? You know,
46:59
you know, I think a specially knowing kind of putting in context like
47:02
there are a lot of bands right now from that world that we grew up
47:07
with we love or that you guys like knew and played with that you know,
47:10
there was like a period of time where, especially because the music industry
47:14
and a million other things where people, you know, bands like broke up
47:16
or went on hiatus. Now you're like starting to see like bands coming back
47:20
together, playing some shows together, or like even like maybe once every five
47:24
years, you're starting to see them like put out some new music or whatever.
47:27
I'm just like in that context knowing that, like it does seem like
47:30
it's a better time to be able to be a band where everybody's living all
47:35
around the country and every now and then you're still playing some shows or whatever.
47:38
Like knowing that context, like where where do things stand? With terminal?
47:45
So we did reunite and like we were united initially to do like some
47:50
benefit shows for Lucas when he got sick with cancer. Like I'll never forget
47:57
Ryan calling me and being like, hey man, you got to come to
47:59
the hospital and going and being with Ryan and Lucas at the hospital and it
48:05
was you know, that was the beginning of just things changing, and we
48:14
did some shows for him and that was that was like probably the best that
48:22
being in that band will ever feel. And it was so cool that it
48:25
was like I got to experience that, like it was like kind of a
48:30
moment where we all could be together doing that thing and really realize how special
48:37
it was together, you know, and that was cool. And then we
48:40
got asked to do Furnace Fest after Lucas had passed, and we had our
48:45
buddy Land and he was like super talented like fort Worth musician, like his
48:52
band Cleanups in the studio again like if you haven't listened to clean Up,
48:58
like super like math rock, Like he's insane, Like he's insane. He
49:04
played bass for us. But we did the thing again and then we got
49:08
back from furnace Fest and that was super fun. They haven't asked us back,
49:15
so that that is what it is. But it just some of the
49:22
relationships kind of fell apart again, and like kind of fell apart like reminiscent
49:30
of Old Ways or whatever, where it's like you think you're past this thing,
49:35
and I guess I don't know, I would say the state of terminal
49:40
is probably like I think that, like maybe it's a willful ignorance to expect
49:50
that those the scar tissue from that experience that like really rocked all of us
49:59
could just fully heal. So, you know, you want to believe that,
50:04
like we're all older and we're all adults, and like this is just
50:08
a thing for fun, but like it kind of just became not that again,
50:14
and I think that probably never happens again. Realistically. We had tried
50:21
to write a little bit, like when Lucas was dying, essentially he you
50:25
know, was like promised me that you guys are going to like write some
50:30
more music because this was cool, and we were all like, yeah,
50:35
we're going to do that, and we didn't. But yeah, I think
50:38
I think that thing is done. I think Furnace Fest was the last ride,
50:45
and what a good one it was. You know, like we got
50:49
two really amazing shows out of it, getting to like honor Lucas and honor
50:55
what the terminal was, and I felt proud of both of them. I
51:00
felt proud of all of it. But I think it's done. Yeah,
51:06
I mean that's totally appearance or Yeah, well obviously you've you know, if
51:12
people are watching the YouTube video, which again, if you are listening to
51:17
this just only audio, also check out the YouTube channel because we've got that
51:22
going on too. But if people aren't watching, clearly you've got guitars in
51:28
the background, you've got a microphone right there, you've got a studio setup,
51:31
so you're clearly like still doing stuff with music. So I'd love to
51:35
just kind of hear where you're at now with music post terminal. Gosh.
51:39
So, so after terminal, I kept terminal going without the guys, and
51:45
I don't know if anyone listening caught us on tour with I did a tour
51:52
with Cartel and the Receiving end of Sirens up the East coast with like higher
52:00
guns friends. It was just like a group of friends and people admit that,
52:06
like that was cool. Came back home, it was honestly, like
52:09
super unnerving because I was like playing guitar the whole time, and I was
52:13
terrible at guitar. So then we went on an West coast run and when
52:22
I got to Phoenix, like a group of guys were like hey, I
52:25
mean they were like, you know, you talked about like pure volume.
52:29
They were MP three dot com like they were like this band that I was
52:34
just like, they're god Like, they're better than May, They're better than
52:39
everyone. They were like, hey, can we come to your show?
52:44
And I was like, for sure, you're all on the guest list,
52:46
and they came and watched us play, and then they were like, hey,
52:51
will you come out to our van and they showed me all of these
52:53
instrumental demos and they had a deal on the line with Equal Vision and a
53:00
production deal with Mark Trombino, who had done like Jimmy World Clarity, like
53:07
one of the two dude ranch like just he was the guy he was I
53:13
mean, Clarity is like, that's that's my god level emo record. And
53:22
so I went while we were on that tour, I like kind of snuck
53:29
into a studio with a guy and recorded some vocals over one of their songs
53:32
and went and jumped into that band, and you know, showcased for the
53:37
label, booking agent and everything, and that was what was post terminal,
53:44
and then that didn't go long. Like that's its whole other story that we
53:47
don't have to get into. But yeah, I've been recording music and writing
53:53
music, and that's ever since, and it's just maybe it's a testament to
54:02
how much I took the Terminal guys for granted or bandmates for granted. It
54:07
is really hard for me to finish music without the other guys. And I
54:13
haven't found the other guys since then. So let's say, for example,
54:19
let's say again just is total hypothetical, but let's say you did find some
54:23
people that's like, God, that's like a drummer I love to work with,
54:27
or like that's a great guitarist I'd love to work with. I found
54:29
a drummer I'd love to work with. Great you found So like let's say,
54:34
and again, I don't know what like other feelings would be about this,
54:37
but I have always been curious, Like let's say you started a project
54:42
with the name Terminal, like you sort of revamp it, but it's like
54:45
entirely new. People like maybe like the old guys, maybe they would feel
54:50
like maybe they have feelings around that. But I've always been like curious,
54:52
like there is a name, there is a sort of I hate to get
54:58
into the marketing terms of it, but like there is a branding around Terminal,
55:01
Like people have expectations and if you were able to write songs like that
55:05
again, would there do you think there would even be interest of you doing
55:08
that other like again? And maybe there's other feelings for other you know,
55:12
the guys that were in the band, maybe they have feelings around that.
55:15
But I've always been really curious, Like I remember David Bizon for years was
55:20
you know, he did his own solo stuff or whatever, right, And
55:22
I remember seeing like an interview years ago now where when Pagro the Lyon got
55:27
back together sort of was Pedro the Lion, but it was for him it
55:30
was more of like a rebranding. Like obviously there's like nobody from like the
55:32
original Pedro the Lion versions or whatever that are still in the band. It's
55:37
just David Bison, sure, but like there was something about like branding it
55:40
under Page of the Lion rather than his own name, that like he just
55:45
knew that it was just gonna sell better and it would make it more sustainable
55:47
for him to do it that way. So I'm curious, like maybe there
55:50
are thoughts around that, but I'm curious, like if you did find like
55:53
the people that were in the right fit to make something like Terminal again,
55:57
would you do that? Yeah, So that's the best question. You did
56:06
good. Yeah, I think that that is like the complicated part is because
56:12
I do feel like I've written like a ton of terminal songs and it's hard
56:17
to imagine that it would be as good without them. But it's very emotionally
56:27
like the same way that like the thing ended, Like it's just socially emotionally
56:34
complicated in a way that like I found a drummer that I was working with.
56:39
This dude, shout out Kyle Adams. He's like Kyle Adams on Instagram.
56:45
Like, dude, he's he is the god lovel drummer. He is
56:51
just so good, like it's insane, and he's the perfect drummer for that
56:54
project. But like Ryan was our Ryan was our our rudder, like he
57:01
was our he was the engine behind the band, and he also really cool
57:08
parts and he you know, he expressed that like he didn't want to be
57:14
a part of it anymore. And if you guys wanted to do this without
57:16
him, like do it. But it's not really that socially simple, like
57:22
we're all friends and stuff or like to some degree we've been friends, or
57:27
we're friends and like our friends, and I think it just feels like at
57:31
this point when you know, like we're all like almost forty years old.
57:36
You know, like that's so old, and I think it feels like I
57:42
just like don't want to make people I care about feel bad. As much
57:46
as I would love to like release another Terminal record, I've written a ton
57:52
of material, and I think it would be like Badass with the right musicians
58:00
less or so want to make like the people who shared that like thing feel
58:07
like bastardized or like you know, just like detached or like let go from
58:15
it, even if they did let me go at some point and it was
58:19
kind of like you got free REIGNMN and then suddenly, you know, like
58:22
Furnace Fest wants us to do stuff or Lucas wants us to do stuff,
58:24
and we're all back in it together again. You know. There's all of
58:30
that to say. There's a very complicated history, you know, right,
58:35
and sometimes you think like, well, who are you? What are you
58:39
waiting for? Who are you waiting for? But I just I love those
58:45
dudes, and maybe it's better to not like, like, what if I
58:50
released this thing that I thought was like good Terminal and everyone was like what
58:57
is that? Like that's terrible and then they were just like why did you
59:01
sully the name? Like we had this mystique and legend and like you know,
59:07
in a in a you know, a niche group of people, like
59:10
there are some people who really like respected that, and like, I don't
59:15
know, there's pressure in that, you know what I'm saying, Well,
59:19
I totally get that. I will. I will say either way, I'm
59:22
gonna be happy. I'm glad that how they only keep exists in the world.
59:25
It's it's one of my favorite albums of all time, probably top twenty
59:29
five favorite album of all time for me? Are you also, oh yeah,
59:35
for sure, top twenty five? Absolutely? What the hell? Yeah?
59:37
That's yeah? Absolutely? Oh yeah. I mean again, like this
59:42
is a I still distinctive remember, And this was a couple maybe two or
59:46
three years after the album had come out, but I still remember getting my
59:50
first iPod. It was one of those little iPod minis where it was like
59:52
a clip like oh or whatever and uh, and you could fit like maybe
59:58
one hundred songs on it or something like that. But I still remember downloading
1:00:01
and you know, I always only had one hundred songs, so I had
1:00:04
to like be very selective of like what was gonna go on there. But
1:00:07
I still remember having the entire how the only Keep album was on there,
1:00:12
and I still and that was like the first and I probably had downloaded from
1:00:15
like LimeWire. I'm sure you know, I was fourteen years old. I
1:00:16
definitely did not pay for you guys' album. Hey, but I remember,
1:00:21
yeah all the time in like science class in like seventh or eighth grade or
1:00:24
something like that. We got no money from it. So I still kill
1:00:30
and destroy man, like whatever has to happen. That's I mean, that's
1:00:36
that's incredibly flattering, dude, Like, thanks so much for just sharing about
1:00:43
the history. I know that there's like just tough moments, there's unbelievable moments,
1:00:47
and yeah, for you to just be really vulnerable, it's great.
1:00:51
Well a lot. Are you ready for your top five most influence? It's
1:00:55
to your top five? I'm so ready, all right, Okay, So
1:01:00
sometimes I forget to tell people before we start that we're going to do a
1:01:02
top five influential album, so they're like, I don't want to, I
1:01:06
don't what to do in the in the moment, But it seems like you've
1:01:08
prepared a little bit, right, I feel I actually have a curve ball
1:01:14
for you. Oh nice, let's hear it. I'm going to do my
1:01:19
Tooth and Nail top five, okay, and and my top five and they
1:01:23
are different. Okay, great, let's let's hear it. Which one do
1:01:27
you want to start out? Start off with? Which one do you want
1:01:30
me to start off with. Let's let's start off with Tooth and Nail and
1:01:34
then we'll jump into your other So they're entirely different. There's no crossover between
1:01:38
each, there's honestly not. And like I know, right, all right,
1:01:46
let's hear it. Tooth and Nail Artists or Tooth and Nail albums for
1:01:52
you albums? Yeah, number one beloved Failure on of course, just another
1:02:00
band that homostly kind of has like a similar issue to like career trajectory as
1:02:05
terminal. You know, they like they released on one album and they break
1:02:07
up. I know they. I think they had like an album before them
1:02:09
before Tooth and Yeah. Yeah, And I was like the whole time,
1:02:15
I've been like, why can't you guys just get it together? Like best
1:02:20
live band I've seen? Yes, So saw them at Club four one two,
1:02:24
like the the local Christian hardcore venue, and they blew my mind.
1:02:34
Like the first time I saw them, I was like, why are three
1:02:36
of them playing guitar? And then they started playing and I was like,
1:02:39
this is the coolest thing I've seen. The drummer screaming and he had like
1:02:44
the Josh Scoggins haircut, like the long in the front, short in the
1:02:46
back, and it's just it was great embodiment narrowscope of things. Of course,
1:02:53
I mean you talked about them a lot at the beginning, so i'd
1:02:55
imagine that I have to, uh, yeah, Hold your Breath is amazing
1:03:02
their death metal thing, Like all of the guys in the band like would
1:03:07
say, like that's their best record. I didn't love it. I loved
1:03:12
Sean Corbrey's vocals. Listen to Neuroscope of Things. It's like when when it
1:03:16
came out, Like when I heard it, I was like, I wish
1:03:20
his scream was more like Chino or something, but like it's like the most
1:03:24
brutal, like rip your throat apart scream, like beautiful singing parts, like
1:03:30
guitar, like everything is in line me without you, ab life, oh
1:03:37
ab life interesting? Okay, Yeah, that was where I got into them,
1:03:42
And it's very like Pumpkins reminiscent, Like there's a lot of guitar,
1:03:45
Like it's just that's what I liked, and like everything they've done is it's
1:03:53
just unimaginably good and cool. But like especially their later really is where he's
1:04:00
gone back to like yelling and stuff like yes, like Red Cow and all
1:04:03
that. Oh I love. Yeah, Pale Horse is my favorite album with
1:04:05
theirs by far. They are probably one of my most seen bands live.
1:04:12
I don't think they're certainly not number one, but they're up there, probably
1:04:15
like top three most like bands I've seen live most They're incredible. Yeah,
1:04:21
we open for them Beloved, and I think Norma Jean has got something.
1:04:30
What I would have been what I would have done at that time in my
1:04:32
life. It was seeing you guys, all four of you together. It
1:04:35
was it was the best show of my life, you know, Like it
1:04:39
was like I couldn't have played with bands that I loved more, and like
1:04:44
I was like sitting with like the Beloved guys and like air and for me
1:04:48
without you on a couch and like talking to them at this venue because it
1:04:53
was like a venue space and then like living room and rooms and stuff like
1:04:58
it was very weird, but but Juliana Fury Emotion is dead. Oh yes,
1:05:03
they're just they're just they were like the best pop rock thing and like
1:05:11
really elevated all of that. And then my last is ludicrous throwing myself.
1:05:17
Of course it was so dark, uh so dark seeing them play live in
1:05:23
that era and Drer look like you know, like Edward scissor Hands and he's
1:05:27
like like playing the guitar with his teeth and stuff, and like Josh Scoggins
1:05:31
is like doing all of this weird performance antics. Like it was sublime.
1:05:38
Like I was, like, nothing has inspired me more towards music than like
1:05:43
seeing that band play live. Yeah, like it was too good. And
1:05:46
it's you know, like the Chariot even you know, even when it became
1:05:49
the Chariot, like Skoggin and the whole band was always known for like crazy
1:05:54
performances. But the funny thing is like as much as the Chariot's known for
1:05:57
that, it's like you should have seen when they were ludicrous or obviously,
1:06:00
like even when when they were playing like small little youth group basements or like
1:06:06
going to like skate parks or something, playing like that was when normal Jean
1:06:12
was nuts. They taught everyone how to like throw their guitars and like do
1:06:16
the live show. Like everyone learned that from them, you know, like
1:06:19
beloved learned that from them, like they were they were the leaders. Yeah,
1:06:26
it was so good. So that's my tooth and nail. That's a
1:06:29
great list. That's a great list. All right, let's hear your other
1:06:32
ear like you're sort of like non tooth and nail regular list. I don't
1:06:35
know how you describe it, but let's let's hear that list. You said
1:06:40
most influential, right, So that's what I've got. Okay, So I
1:06:46
think it has to be or do you want me to go in chronological order
1:06:50
or like whatever order you want to go. Okay, I think chronological is
1:06:59
more fair because this probably changes. But number one or the first one Counting
1:07:11
Crows August and everything after. Oh interesting, there are so many people who
1:07:18
hate on the Counting Crows. I'm wondering, like they're they're they're not like
1:07:25
a they're not like a super respected band, and they did a lot of
1:07:30
like commercial stuff and things. But I when I was like really young,
1:07:38
that album came out in ninety three. I believe I remember like riding around
1:07:43
in my dad's jeep Cherokee when my parents were getting a divorce and just listening
1:07:51
to that album being like this is the best music. And to this day,
1:07:59
like Counting Crows, you know, not just not exclusive to that album,
1:08:03
but I I love that album. I think in terms of like lyricism
1:08:11
and emotive vocal, like the way that Adam Durittz like expresses himself, like
1:08:15
was it was unique, and it was like a weird thing that like seems
1:08:23
like it shouldn't have worked, but the songs were that good. So they
1:08:26
blew up and they got big, and they had mister Jones, which is
1:08:30
like it's gonna help, you know. Perfect Blue Buildings is a great sleeper
1:08:34
track off that album. And I've met like few people who love and respect
1:08:40
Counting Crows, like the guitar player Fear before the March of Flames. I
1:08:44
don't know if you remember that band. Loved that band. He was like
1:08:47
a huge Counting Crows fan, and so he just like bonded over that,
1:08:50
like that was like a thing. But yeah, Counting Crows Augustin to everything
1:08:57
after is undeniable. I have my list in front of me, second chronologically
1:09:06
only Smashing Pumpkin's Melancholy in the Infinite Sadness. Of course, I mean Sime's
1:09:15
Dream is probably like just as good, but that record was like when they
1:09:21
really like peaked my interest and I felt just overcome by how good that band
1:09:29
was. And I don't think I don't think anyone will ever make a double
1:09:35
album greater than Melancholy in the Infinite Sadness, since you know, like it's
1:09:43
it's undeniable, it's their thing. For me was like the Dynamics, like
1:09:48
they could be like super heavy and doing these kind of like almost like Browie
1:09:54
like bounded, you know, like kind of riffs or just the saddest like
1:10:01
you know, lowest chords. Like to Forgive is probably my non single favorite
1:10:09
song off that album, To Forgive by Smashing Pumpkins off of Melancholing the Infinite
1:10:15
Sadness. Yes, for some you know, what's an interesting like the song
1:10:18
specifically nineteen seventy nine off of that album is that like I often think like
1:10:27
if I had heard that album back in what year was that released? Ninety
1:10:30
seven? Maybe it was like six or seven? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
1:10:34
ninety six, ninety seven. When I think back to like what like
1:10:40
music sounded like inneteen, nineteen ninety six and nineteen ninety seven nineteen seventy nine
1:10:46
would have felt very futuristic, like it just sounds so ahead of its time,
1:10:50
and at the same time, there's just something maybe it's like the like
1:10:55
chords themselves or something, but it also sounds very nostalgic. Like at the
1:11:00
same time of like sounding very futuristic, it's also sounds nostalgic, like it's
1:11:03
able to hold them so well. That song in particular, he uh yeah,
1:11:09
and like Smashing Pumpkins like in general, like like it's funny, like
1:11:13
I've been like playing guitar with my dad and he's like, so, what
1:11:17
songs do you know? And I'm like, I don't know how to play
1:11:20
anyone else's songs. I just sit down with the guitar to like write and
1:11:25
record, and like I don't even know how to play my songs. But
1:11:29
Smashing Pumpkins when you go and like look at their songs, it's very classic
1:11:34
rock. A lot of their like chord structures and things, and he was
1:11:38
very influenced by that, and like Gish shows that off a lot more.
1:11:43
But yeah, like one like there's like the weird drum machine and like sense
1:11:50
playing along and it's still I don't know his his dynamic vocal though, is
1:11:57
like he had the best ability to like be like nasty with his voice and
1:12:01
then like very sweet and soft and like yes maybe in the same like line,
1:12:08
you know, like often in the same line. Like it was like
1:12:13
that was Yeah, I just I love that band forever. Seeing them with
1:12:16
my brother was like I got to see them live playing like the hits from
1:12:21
that era, like they were doing a tour, doing like Simony's Dream,
1:12:27
Melancholy, a little bit of Gish, a little bit of like Machina which
1:12:32
was like stand inside your Love, and like some of the songs were great
1:12:35
too, But that was a highlight onward Glass Jaw everything you ever wanted to
1:12:44
know about silence mm hmm. If you hear the early letter twelve demos I
1:12:50
am doing, it's kind of embarrassing, Like I'm just like trying to sing
1:12:55
like Darryl from Glass Jaw. So I'm like, what that really high and
1:13:01
just yeahs like he can do it. The imitators always just sound like fools,
1:13:09
and I sound like a fool, but like that's what I'm doing.
1:13:12
Yeah, Like the guys that I, you know, met Jane or Matt
1:13:16
and Ryan through they had gone to see see Deftones live and Glassjaw opened and
1:13:25
they had this cassette that was like Glass Jaw Singles, and they played it
1:13:28
for me and I was like, that sucks. That band's terrible, And
1:13:32
then like you listen to it like five more times and suddenly it's like this
1:13:39
is going to change everything. And I think Glass Jaw is like undeniably one
1:13:44
of the most influential, inimitable bands of our lifetime, like just so good,
1:13:54
weird, pretentious, like just everything they were so good. But that
1:14:00
record is great. My Deep Cut is everything you ever want to know about
1:14:05
Silence, like the the the namesake that record, Like when he comes into
1:14:13
the big vocal, it's kind of like a painstaking listen as this like jazzy
1:14:17
thing happens and he just kind of like fumbles through stuff. But when it
1:14:21
digs in, man, it's so heavy and emotional like killer. Yeah,
1:14:27
great band. Then probably like if we're ranking things by like action, like
1:14:34
non chronologically, I think this is my number one recovers EP all right,
1:14:43
I looked up how to pronounce this seci nee pa recover. It's like the
1:14:49
Old. It's based on like the old, Like this is not a pipe
1:14:53
painting, it was like a famous painting. And it's like, this is
1:14:57
not recover. It's Cissy and nipa recover. Yeah. It looks very French,
1:15:03
very French, and they're all wearing like leather jackets and it looks so
1:15:06
cool. I don't think I've ever heard of this band before. Dude,
1:15:12
when you hear them, you're gonna be like that is what Terminal wanted to
1:15:15
be, or like people don't see that as much as I think they could.
1:15:19
That is that was epic album covered by the way, this is awesome.
1:15:25
It's sick, dude. The songs, like from start to finish,
1:15:30
it is five songs of two minute long like perfect aggressive rock pop songs like
1:15:38
Jimmy World took them onto or a lot, like playing huge shows and stuff
1:15:42
like they were they were supposed to be it and they should have been it
1:15:47
and they had like a weird, weird industry story which I can tell the
1:15:53
whole thing but I shouldn't write here. But it is five songs of perfection
1:16:00
and I think every track is probably a deep cut on this for most people.
1:16:04
Uh, Push Push song number two is my highlight of that. It's
1:16:12
like perfect pop heavy does everything. They had, Like their guitar player like
1:16:17
yelled and had like a gruff voice. Dan Keyes, the singer guitar player,
1:16:23
like I had this really like perfect like rock emo rock voice. It's
1:16:30
it was the blueprint. Like when I heard that in Ryan's car when it
1:16:35
came out, I was like, this is the best thing I've ever heard
1:16:41
this day. Yeah, well to this day. Like I went to like
1:16:46
go to the gas station, like get gas and probably like pick up some
1:16:50
beer or something for me and my partner, and I put it on and
1:16:56
I'm instantly there, like it just never stops hitting. It is timeless.
1:17:02
You will love it. Like five songs of perfection. It's perfect. And
1:17:08
then my last pick because we're going chronologically is Margo and the Nuclear So and
1:17:14
So's the Dust of Retreat. I don't know if I know that. Margo
1:17:19
and the who oh God, you're such a treat. Margo and the Nuclear
1:17:25
So and Sos probably what an insane band name, great name for a band,
1:17:33
so like when they're early on, I became fascinated. So I heard
1:17:38
the song quite as a mouse, which is what I will recommend from that
1:17:42
album Quiet as a Mouse. It's like heavy emo wheezer with like cello's and
1:17:49
stuff, and it's it's so good. But I watched an interview and they're
1:17:55
like someone's interviewing them for TV and they're like, where did your name from?
1:18:00
And Richard Edwards, they're like always cool singers, Like how much can
1:18:05
we talk about doing drugs on TV or something? You know, like it
1:18:10
was He's just he's cool. He's like painfully cool, like it hurts how
1:18:15
cool he is. But that band, all of their records sense incredible,
1:18:24
Like they went into a major label deal, had a bad run, like
1:18:28
just like Recover, and kept making records and then now he makes solo records
1:18:33
under Richard Edwards and like the best songwriter of our of this time, you
1:18:42
know, like of mid aughts On, like he doesn't miss Like every album
1:18:47
is full of like maybe four decent songs and like eight great songs, like
1:18:55
he's he's undeniable. We got to the Bandos and in Phoenix we got to
1:19:02
the last year we played. I flew back in town from Austin and we
1:19:06
opened for them. I got to meet them and it was like electric.
1:19:14
It was wow. So cool. That's so well. I'm gonna have to
1:19:16
check out those last two bands. That is exciting. Not always if we
1:19:20
hear like a band that we've never heard of before in these top five lists,
1:19:25
but that is those are two bands I've never heard of, and I
1:19:28
am super excited to check them out. I love music, and I love
1:19:32
a ton of music. Like I'm not wrong, like you will, you'll
1:19:36
you have a lot of material to enjoy, so you're gonna love it,
1:19:43
love it awesome. Sweet Well, Travis, Uh, we are at a
1:19:46
point now where you get to plug whatever you want to plug. So maybe
1:19:49
there's music stuff that you want to plug. Maybe there's business whatever you want
1:19:55
to plug. Maybe maybe it's a political stance. It doesn't matter what what
1:19:58
do you want to plug in the world. Yeah, I'll forgo a political
1:20:02
stance. And musically, I think I'm always working on it. Like I
1:20:09
said, please check out the drummer Kyle Adams. He is god level.
1:20:14
He played on one of my tracks that I was hoping to release. I
1:20:16
haven't really got it there yet, just need to like bring it up to
1:20:20
the level he put it at. But like he's on Instagram like playing drums
1:20:26
and playing drums on all sorts of people's stuff, and he is too sick.
1:20:30
Like you'll love it, Kyle Adams. But I think if I need
1:20:39
to plug a thing, I've started a I've started a foundation. So I
1:20:45
have a dog named Sherman. He's a chihuah Wah. He showed up in
1:20:49
my front yard one day before my ex and I were going over to have
1:20:57
dinner with Ryan from Terminal and give his youngest son his first haircut. It
1:21:01
was like kind of an important meeting. So I'm waiting by the door.
1:21:09
Storms rolling in and we had two big dogs at the time, and they
1:21:13
go nuts and I look out the window and there's there's a little dog out
1:21:20
in the front yard. And I looked away from him, and then I'm
1:21:25
like, I gotta go try to help him. So I ended up catching
1:21:30
him, and he's been my dog for eight years. And so I've started
1:21:35
a foundation called the Lookdown Foundation. And the Lookdown Foundation is it's just a
1:21:45
reminder to people that like a lot of times, we like look up.
1:21:48
We look up to the sky, it's gorgeous. We look up for inspiration
1:21:55
for like a guide, you know, a guiding light in our lives.
1:21:58
But sometimes you need to look down. You need to look down, and
1:22:01
like the chuah wahs are all down there, so they are sadly down there.
1:22:06
They're down there. And so I've started the Look Down Foundation, and
1:22:12
I just you know, I hope people support it. I hope the message
1:22:15
grows. Like when you look down, they're generally two eyes, two big
1:22:20
eyes, two bug eyes looking up at you. Right. I just I
1:22:27
couldn't be uh, I couldn't be more grateful for him and for the foundation.
1:22:31
Would you ever recommend the Lookdown Foundation for people who are going across one
1:22:38
of those swinging bridges? Have you ever seen those swinging bridges in the movies
1:22:44
where you're like trying to you've got to get from one side of the crater
1:22:46
to the next, and then you know people got to go through. Have
1:22:49
you ever crossed real life? They're so disconcerting, maybe like on their playground
1:22:55
park when I was like six years old, but I don't think I've gone
1:22:58
through like any I am a gone on any that are like legit. But
1:23:01
that's a valid experience because it you know, that translates. The skill that
1:23:05
you learn on that playground is what's going to get you across okay, across
1:23:12
the you know, like the Big Boy Bridge. But yeah, I think
1:23:16
a lot of people who cross those bridges if they had the sense and the
1:23:21
companionship to like look down and see the chihuahua like they would, it will
1:23:28
stabilize you. It will stabilize you in a way that you know. That's
1:23:32
what people need. Life is a big splaying bridge. And if you can
1:23:38
look down right, look down foundation and like see those eyes staring up at
1:23:44
you, it makes crossing that bridge a whole lot easier. That makes sense,
1:23:48
That makes sense. Wonderful. Well, I did not know about the
1:23:51
foundation, and so it's a I will look up the Lookdown Foundation on the
1:23:58
internet. I like what you did there, you go. How about that?
1:24:00
Wonderful well, Travis, thank you so much for Chatty Moore about your
1:24:04
music career. Terminal Again, Terminal is one of those bands that have just
1:24:09
been a part of my life for a very very long time. So it
1:24:11
really isn't honor to chat more about Terminal and I hope for the best for
1:24:15
the Lookdown Foundation. Thank you, Thank you so much. This has been
1:24:20
wonderful. You've been great. Appreciate you reaching out to me. Honored like
1:24:27
truly honored that you wanted to hear anything I had to say, so gorank you