Latest / The Pause Before You Lead / When Is Transparency Not Helpful?

Transcript

When Is Transparency Not Helpful? · The Pause Before You Lead

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: And how will how will this serve them?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I know how it's gonna serve me, because I'm gonna get it off my chest.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it'll feel aligned with those values I'm trying to honor within myself, right?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: My identity as a leader.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm uh I'm looking after that.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Look at me.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm transparent, I'm honest, I'm in authentic, I share.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I bring people in, I collaborate, I connect.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the impact of sharing.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Pause Before You Lead.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Alicia Saint.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Heather Haig.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Together, we've both led teams inside large organizations.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And over the past decade, we've coached and partnered with hundreds of leaders and teams navigating complexity.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen, felt, heard, and supported leaders through the challenging and sometimes really messy parts of leadership.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And while a lot has changed, many of the patterns that quietly take leaders off track just keep showing up.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: We work with leaders who don't want to lose momentum, but who know that clearer thinking is what makes momentum sustainable.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for leaders who are moving fast, leading teams, and making decisions under constant pressure.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And leaders who know there's a better way to think, lead, and respond in those moments.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, we bring you real conversations drawn from our work with leaders and teams.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Where speed matters, stakes are high, and the quality of your thinking shapes everything.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So in each episode, we're going to pause just long enough to think more clearly, to see what's really going on, make better decisions, and build high-value teams.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're listening before the day takes over, on your way to work, or in the middle of a full day, this is your pause without losing momentum.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: So before we begin, take a breath and join us.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Pause Before You Lead.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Heather Haig.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Alicia Saint.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we're inviting you to join us today, not to find the right answer, but to take a breath, explore with us, and perhaps we'll see something we didn't see before.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Before we jump into our topic today, Alicia, I just want to take a moment and just acknowledge I have missed you.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: How nice of you to say.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome back.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've taken a major pause, haven't I, this summer?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Two and a half months worth.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I know we'll we'll probably touch on some of the insights from the time away.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: We do have a topic to be talking about today.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, Alicia, you I know you're going to kick us off with a story to sort of set the stage.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: But really what we're talking about today is that is that desire sometimes as leaders to share everything with our people.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when you were telling me about the story we're going to be talking about, that sort of really landed.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: We could both feel the energy around it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll turn it over to you to kick us off with the story today.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm bringing this one because it's actually shown up as a bit of a theme.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've heard it recently from a few different leaders that I've been coaching.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so it got me wondering, you know, maybe this is a good topic for us for today.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the theme was, and it was different circumstances, but the connecting theme was I have values of integrity and honesty and respect.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when I operate from those places, you know, I really feel I have to share all this information that I have.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you can use whatever situation comes up for you.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a difficult conversation you need to have.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a situation at work that's happening.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh one of the ones that I think about a lot is just as a leader, sometimes you know things that you need to keep to yourself, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so in both of these contexts, that this was the conversation.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the the immediate um reaction from the leader was, well, I need to tell.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I need to tell someone, I need to tell the people, I need to tell.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And when you export it, as I said, it sort of came from this place of, you know, I I'm an authentic leader, I'm transparent, I, you know.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when I asked them to pause for a moment and consider that's one choice, what what if you didn't share?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yet not share that story right now or and it really unlocked in both cases really interesting conversations because what they saw was they were actually doing it to serve themselves, more so than serve others, which is where all the values come from, integrity, respect, right?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is like all about you know being that for others, their identity as a leader.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really really interesting because in both cases they were they had aha moments and they said, Wow, that actually might um work against me, and not be seen as being an integrity, and not being seen as being respectful or helpful because sharing in in these cases was actually a burden for the others.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Relieved them because they're like, I have to let people know because I know, so they have to know without thinking through.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens when they have that information?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: How is that helpful for them?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: How does that demonstrate integrity and respect for them?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, wow, it actually doesn't.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it was very, very interesting.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I really appreciate it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I appreciate you bringing this topic to our conversation today because you said a few words at the outset that honesty, integrity, respect, and how easily our interpretation of it may guide us to actions that we haven't thought about impact.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you and I talk a lot about intention versus impact and how just assuming that my intention is aligned with my values, therefore the impact is going to be positive.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: But to really say, you know, you used a word at the end that wasn't one of the values in the beginning, which is is it helpful to the recipient in your effort to be honest and your effort to be transparent and your effort to be authentic, right?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much pressure for leaders to be authentic, whatever that means.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so this I might just forge ahead without really thoughtful consideration and not because they're not considerate of their people, because they 100% are.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: But to say, will this information in their hands help them?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's it's that fear.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I don't know if this is something that you, as you were coaching them, but for me, I'm like, man, my ego shows up loud in that.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I think that I need to be honest, trans transparent with people, the pressure of that identity for me might drive thing, like might drive things forward without the pause.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's, you know, the invitation for them was to really broaden the definition that they were holding around, you know, especially around integrity.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: What else might it mean?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Could integrity mean withholding?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Could integrity mean discerning?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and maybe even and this probably isn't in that initial discussion necessarily, but it could be a curious when you say integrity, what do you mean?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: The assumption is that transparency and just sharing everything will meet that definition.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So even when you sort of say, like, is that the only way?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is there another way to operate and still be in integrity?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I kind of go, do I even know what I mean when I say it?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: What was your experience sort of holding the space for these leaders as they, as you were inviting them to explore other definitions or other ways of thinking about it?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just it's just really curious, right?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just this curious to see how we all like labels are our life.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Labels are our life.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we all walk around with these labels or titles or words.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, and just getting really curious.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because you could see, you know, for me, I could I I was I I was like, wow, could there be a disconnect?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just getting curious and getting them to explore, because at the end of the day, maybe for them, that was exactly how they saw it and felt it which should whom I to say it's not.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: But in both of those cases, they they really saw that actually withholding the information and being more discerning about what to tell, when to tell it, who to tell it to was actually the much better choice.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: But without that pause, without someone sort of saying, you know, just let's hit the stop button just for a second.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and in one case, the leader had already shared, you know, something with someone, but was ready to share more with more, right?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was good because then you could say, okay, so knowing that you have what what's helpful?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what does how does that show respect?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: How does that show integrity?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was like, wow, I actually realized I did it more for myself.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, that that sort of that that why what was the driver behind it moment.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that I just heard in what you said there that just kind of had my, I was like, ooh, rabbit hole.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like there's a whole other piece of this that's really fascinating, which is maybe in being discerning, it is appropriate to share information with a certain person.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: But what I heard in what you were sharing was they'd already shared it and now wanted to share it more.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so it isn't even necessarily to say it's a it's an all or nothing.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's that real check-in to say, if I do share it, who would benefit from this information in a meaningful way that's aligned with my values?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And who am I just sharing it with because my my desire for transparency is driving uh every, I need to tell everyone.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that piece kind of jumped out in what you just said, which is it's not, it's it's not all or nothing necessarily.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's taking that pause to say, is this necessary?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is it useful?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Does it help them do their work better?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does it, does it impact the people I want to tell in a way that will have a meaningful impact?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And this other piece we haven't even tapped into, which is if I have information about something going on within the organization, is it my story to tell?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is this like even if I think from my own transparency and I I want to be honest with my team, I want to give them as much information as I can, like to also say, yet is it like timing matters as well in this?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think it's really great you brought that up because it just reminded me that that was part of the one conversation was it was um they need to know the the the real story.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I have the real story, the real story, and I said whose story?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the leader said, Well, my story.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Is it possible that others could hold a different version of the story?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, yes.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: So what is the real story?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And how helpful is it to be, well, here's the story, but here's the real story.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does that do to the what does that do to integrity within an organization?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: What does that do to trust?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: What does that do?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So again, going, can I see beyond the immediate sense of I need to share this?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: To how does this play out beyond me?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: If I make that decision, because yeah, like um and and I don't think this is an easy thing for leaders.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I do think sometimes it's very difficult when the organizational story isn't necessarily the story you tell, but what's the impact of you telling a different version of that story?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: What does that do to the culture?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that you said, and again, these are just like what pops out at me as we're exploring this conversation is the word withholding, because I can feel in myself my resistance to that word, like there's like a negative association with I'm withholding information versus when you talk about like I'm I'm consciously choosing what's most appropriate for my team to know in this moment.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: In this moment, yeah.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like not a withholding, but actually a conscious choice that says, I'm gonna give the information that is most useful to you to the best of my ability in the current moment.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think absolutely, and I think the discernment is um knowing that the answers to that, right?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Which is maybe I have this urge, right, to to share.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, absolutely that feeling of withholding, right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: That being out of alignment, and then the discernment to say just not yet.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds so simple, but it's not easy.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: But again, again, I just, you know, I had a coaching session today, and and the leader was like really like, I'm celebrating my progress because I can see it.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can see it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And once I can see it, now I have a choice to make, right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what we're talking about is it's just having that moment of pause to, you know, like, how would we say that for this?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, just asking yourself the question, you know, if you feel that urge, but you know, I think you always know, don't you know?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's something in your gut that says, maybe, maybe do I do I rush to say this and share this, or well, maybe the question at that point is what is the actual urgency?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe that's crazy.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: What's creating this urgency in me?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: To to act right now.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say that that as we see leaders that that we're working with, and as I know we've each done this in our own development, as we take that pause, and I'm not saying like the like a like a 10-hour pause, but the pause long enough to say, does it require an immediate action in this moment allows for some of that discernment, right?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because it just sort of slows down the the energy that's that's behind the action that's saying I am an authentic leader.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be transparent, I need to tell my team, I need to keep them in the loop, all those things that happen so fast within us to be able to just, okay, wait, let's just check in.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: What's driving this sense of urgency right now?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And how will how will this serve them?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know how it's gonna serve me because I'm gonna get it off my chest.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it'll feel aligned with those values I'm trying to honor within myself, right?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: My identity as a leader.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking after that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Look at me, I'm transparent, I'm honest, I'm in authentic, I share, I bring people in, I collaborate, I connect.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the impact of sharing.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: How is that how is that great for everyone else?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: If they know this information, if I share this information at this moment.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and the flip side of it is if and you know, I think of moments where information was shared with me prematurely.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And part of me actually almost feeling like I kind of wish, like I appreciate being in the loop, and I also kind of wish I didn't know this information because I can't do anything with it.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's doesn't help me in this moment, like feeling in the inner circle didn't necessarily improve my presence, my my actions the way that I was showing up.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it there's also maybe an opportunity for a leader to sit in the shoes of their team and say, if you if I received this information before it was ready, or if I received it, you know, with this blatant honesty versus some discernment, uh, how would it feel?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, personal reflection, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you when you hear like things like restructure, we're going through a restructure.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And when?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, sometime soon.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: How big well, you know what I mean?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not healthy.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Changes are coming.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Changes are coming.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it useful to know changes are coming before you know the changes are coming?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does that does that create greater or lesser anxiety for people to get information that a restructure is ahead or a merger is about to take place, or like whatever the things are that everything is in advance, where you just go, was that was it helpful to have that before?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, because then I think, yeah, because then as I'm playing this out, right?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: You look back at your boss who's being authentic, honest, transparent.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then you look at them and go, really?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: We thought this was helpful.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't need your honesty, authenticity, and transparency right now, because now you've just, you've just transferred or brought me into your stress ball.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we know that there is the disconnect between intention and impact, right?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because the the intention drives the, I need my team to be feel like they're in the loop.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want people to feel like they're being left out.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want them to see me as someone who withholds information.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: But then what's the impact if I share it?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And really being thoughtful about that.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate you bringing this into the conversation, Alicia.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, for the the leaders who are joining us today, uh, I think that there's a a reflective question that we can kind of leave them with, which is, you know, whenever you're getting that sensation, we've given some steps to follow.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, is my sharing this information serving the team, or is it serving my idea of the leader I think I'm supposed to be?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um until next time.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Another reflection.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Another encouragement to pause before you lead.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you next week.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining the Pause Before You Lead.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation sparked something for you, share it.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because more leaders need space to think clearly in the moments that matter.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Follow or subscribe so you don't miss an episode and let us know what's on your mind.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: We shape these conversations for you.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Before you move on to what's next, pause just for a moment.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And notice what might change if you led from here.