Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 411- The DAL-TEX Building

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 411- The DAL-TEX Building · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you for watching Triple B and Joe B hold
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a file.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: And dim the room. A Dallas address keeps humming, making
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: history bloom.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Across the street from the T.S.P.D.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: The dial text building keeps a careful mystery.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Windows full of witnesses, hallways full of names.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Every floor can turn a question into a flame.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: So mark the map and check the time.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Follow every thread through the paper trail line. At the Daltex,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: where the clues run deep. Triple B and Joe B
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: lose no sleep. Lone Gunman podcast, turning every stone.
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: Jeff K and the.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Record, never left alone. At the Daltex, hear the old
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: wall speak.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: One more fact, one more angle every.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: A drunk Larry Flora got arrested in the building that day.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: While the Dallas afternoon.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Kept rolling on its way.
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: And career criminal.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Mafia guy Jim Braden too. Got arrested coming out, the
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: detail stays in view.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Names in the margins, dates in a row. The closer
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: you look, the more the questions show. At the doll's head,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: where the clues run deep. Triple B and Joe B
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: lose no sleep. Long gunman podcast, turning every stone.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: Jet plane, the.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Record, never left alone. At the dial text, hear the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: old wall speak. One more fact, one more angle every week.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Mexican ladies sewing dresses through the day. Needles kept moving
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: as the world looked away.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: And famous film.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Rates are pruder worth their tune.
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: A camera, a building, and a city. All texts across
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: from the TFDD.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Every window holds a piece of what we need. Triple
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: B and Joe B, keep the questions strong.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Love Gunman Podcast, tracing what went wrong. That's a dull
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: text where the old clues remain We read the names then.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Read them once again The lone gunman hot catch.
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: Triple B and Joe B.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Across the street, the file.
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: Stays open.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: What's up, everybody? Welcome in, welcome in. It is the
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: LoneGummin' podcast. It is Friday night. We are live. Allegedly.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Joe's muted, though. Ah, gotcha.
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: Well, he read the words out of my mouth. He
• 5:24
  Speaker 6: read my lips.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Not me tonight.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: No.
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: Yes. We are live, and happy... early Labor Day weekend
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: to everyone. I hope everyone has a very happy three-day weekend.
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: And a special shout-out to Spook Level Member.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: What? Oh, nothing. I was talking to Doug earlier about
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: some things we were tired of hearing about.
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: What was that?
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: He got me laughing. It's an inside joke, Joe.
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: Okay, I'm not... I'm not in part of that. And
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: special early birthday to Mama Borelli tomorrow, who, by the way,
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: is a spook level member. So if she could figure
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: it out, I'm sure most of you could.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Allegedly.
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 6:27
  Speaker 6: But no, welcome everyone. Happy to be here.
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: Happy it's Friday. And how are you, sir?
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I am fantastic. It's Friday. We got a hell of
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: a show lined up for you. It's all about the
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Dow techs building and shit that was going on in it.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Shit that was going on outside of it and all
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: kinds of other shit, uh, tangentially related. But before we
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: get there, I'd like to welcome everybody in. We hope
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: you have a fantastic Labor Day weekend and we're here
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: to kick it off.
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: Yes. And, and, uh, before you share this one slide, Rob, um,
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: I want to give a special shout out to Brandon, alias, pseudonym,
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: the double B, who had a successful surgery today and
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: is allegedly home and recovering.
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: And I hope they gave you some good meds.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Yes. Focus in on the two of us in the
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: middle of the six of us that you're seeing right here.
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: But yeah, for sure.
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: So we had to fire members only on Wednesday, as
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: we always do, over two hours. And I wanted you,
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: before we get into the Daltech stuff, to put this up, Rob,
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: on my screen share. And it's a little follow-up to
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: what we talked about on Wednesday and what you touched
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: on briefly last Friday, which was R.D.
• 8:00
  Speaker 6: Matthews, a.k.a. The Patch.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 8:05
  Speaker 6: So Mr.
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: Jack Taylor sent me this picture on the top of
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: Camp Easy's. And do you see this skafooza with the
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: white cowboy hat?
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: I think that's R.D. Matthews.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: It very well could be.
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: It's hard to tell, but it would be crazy if
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: it was. And he's like, Memorialized.
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: Memorialized. On the wall.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Or memorialized.
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you know me.
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: On the wall of Camp Easy's, right? That would be crazy.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't put it past him. I mean, look. We
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: all know he was a bad... When you get shot
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: in the eye and it exits your temple and you
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: drive yourself to the hospital, you're a badass. When you're
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: still bitch slapping dudes.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: In a casino at age 80, you're a badass. And
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: you live to be 92, you're a badass. So here's
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: the R.D. Matthews.
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: This one's for you.
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: Some smoke for the fire. But yeah, no, I thought
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: that would be an interesting little follow-up. cause he sent
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: me that earlier today and, uh, I asked him if
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: I could share and, uh, he.
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: Is going to inquire.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: So. Excellent. Well, check this out, Joseph. Okay. All right.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Let's get into this Dow Texaco here. Okay.
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: So before you start, yes, I know you're going to
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: be covering Jim Braden. I'm going to be covering Larry floor. Um,
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: I'm not quite sure, and you're going to be shocked
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: to hear this, about Braden. I'm kind of 50-50 whether
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: he was involved or not, whether he was up to
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: something sus or not. I'm riding the fence, as you
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: know I love to do. I know, the eye roll.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: I go for that every time. So I'm giving it
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: a 50-50 start, and then I'm going to give it
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: an ending percentage.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Okay. Well, I'm going to nudge you in a certain direction.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: After tonight, you may be at 51%. Okay. We'll see.
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: We'll see.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: We will see.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: All right, folks. This is.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: An early, early, early, early, early-ass photograph of what we
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: now know as the Dow Tech's building when it was
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: built somewhere in the neighborhood of 1902. I mean, notice
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: the horse and carriages and the fucking Model As and shit.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is old, right? Right. It was known
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: as the John Deere Plow Company originally. All right, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: if you look at this photo.
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: Like the tractor company.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, like the tractor company. Jesus fucking Christ. You'll notice
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: here on the side of the building, there is no,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: what do you call them, Joe?
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: Columns?
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Fire escapes.
• 11:41
  Speaker 6: Fire escapes, right.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you remember in 1963, this thing had fire escapes
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: all over the side of it, right? Right here.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 11:48
  Speaker 6: And people hanging out on them, yes.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Apparently, when it was built, they didn't give a shit
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: how you were going to get out of that building.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Good luck to you, is what they said. Right.
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: They must have enacted some laws that made them install
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: them later.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Probably so, yeah. Now, if you look up here on
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: the top of the building, over here on the right side,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: you'll see a big-ass sign that says John Deere Plow Company.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: A lot of these buildings, when you think about the...
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: the school book depository and the hurt sign on top
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: of it and all of that. A lot of these
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: buildings had that kind of stuff back then. And look
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: at this early telephone pole, man. I mean, this is
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: old school. Like this is not a stoplight. This is
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: like a, I don't know what this is like a lantern.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Hanging in the middle of the street.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is before street lights before stoplights. I mean,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: that's crazy, man. Yeah.
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: Maybe it's one of those flock cameras they have all
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: over the place these days.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I think this is before flock cameras.
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: I know, I know, I know.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: It was probably somebody's job to come in here on
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: a ladder and light this sumbitch every night or something.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: Right, lantern type shit.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But if you notice on the bottom here of
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: the DAO text, what is now the DAO text. Oh,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: hold on, hold on. I heard some chains droppin'. Brandon
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: has gifted five memberships.
• 13:18
  Speaker 6: Thank you, Brandon.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Hold on. Clay in Tennessee got one. Social Outcast got one.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Dave Zagrino got one. Darzeno got one. And your favorite girl, 1999,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: got one. Congratulations, folks. And use them wisely and take
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: advantage of them. You got it for 30 days. You
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: have access to all the members-only shows online. that we
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: do going back for a while.
• 13:48
  Speaker 6: So take advantage.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: Many hours.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Many, many, many hours.
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: Yes. Also, I saw Mr. Doug in the chat.
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: Hello, sir. Hope you are well.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. So here on the bottom of the building, Joe,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: now this is a John Deere plow company, right?
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So they have to have a way to get these
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: John Deere tractors in and out of the building. And
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: as you can see here, The bottom of this building
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: has like a wide open kind of thing. It looks
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: like they have these removable barriers here in front of everything.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: But all of this is wide open. I guess to
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: where they can get these tractors in and out of
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: the building.
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: On the ground level at least. Yeah. Not sure what
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: that says right there. But it's interesting, man. Real interesting.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: The John Deere Plow Company. So, this building was built
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: actually after the School Book Depository building was built, right? And,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: of course, it wasn't called the School Book Depository building
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: at the time. But, it was originally called Was it
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: the Southern Rock Island Plow Company? I believe. And it
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: was built... I believe around the same time. But it
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: was struck by lightning. Caught fire. And was destroyed. So...
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: They had to rebuild it. And it was built... Rebuilt.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: This building and that building was... Basically... It was called
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Sullivan-esque style of architecture, right? Some guy named Louis Sullivan.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: He's known for bold geometric brick facades, large arched showroom windows,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: and structured vertical columns. Early elements of prairie school design.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Things like that. Very wild. So in 1907, the John
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Deere Plow Company did take over that building. The building
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: was originally commissioned for the Kingman Texas Implement Company, whatever
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: the hell that was. Again, the John Deere Plow Company
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: took over in 1907 at 501 Elm Street.
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: Hey, I'm going to be back in like 10 seconds.
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: My thing's getting all fucking glitchy on me. You're frozen. Yeah.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: I'll be right back.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Okay. All right. It would go on to, it was
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: renamed the Dallas Textiles Building, shortened to Dow Text, and
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: it became the heart of the city's garment and apparel
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: wholesaling district, where a lot of clothes were made, and
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of Mexicans worked in a sweatshop-type environment, slaving over,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: what do they call them, sewing machines. And some guy
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: you might have heard of named Abraham Zapruder actually worked
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: in the Dow Tech's building, and he ran a company
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: called Jennifer Junior's where they made women's clothing on the
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: fourth and fifth floors of the Dow Tech's building.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: Uh-oh.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: All right, I'm back. And wow, did you already give
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: this the David Furry?
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: No, it just dropped. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it, brother.
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: Thank you. Thank you, Mike. Love you.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, in honor of mom and dad. Props to mom
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and dads all around the world. Without them, we would
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: not be here.
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: That is true.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Allegedly. I was just talking about how Abraham Zapruder worked
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: in the Dow Tech's building on the third and the
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: fourth floor. Yes. Originally, the school book depository warehoused its books. Well,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: some of them. Mostly it was the publishers' offices were
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: over on the first and second floor of the Dow
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Text Building before they moved across the street when it
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: became available and kind of integrated the book publishing companies
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: and part of the warehousing process. They still had another
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: warehouse down on Houston Street that they called the State Building. And, uh,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: So that is a brief history of the Dow Tech's building.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: It has since went through many machinations, of course, since
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: the 70s. And owners throughout the years as well, both
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: the school book depository and the Dow Tech's building. All right,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: let's see here.
• 19:15
  Speaker 6: So Oh, thank you.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: ScarbroJW. Awesome.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Welcome in.
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: Just became a member, yeah. We have fun over there
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: on Members Only, so thank you, sir.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Joey Scarbro.
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: Joey Scarbro.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe. Allegedly. That gets a David Ferry. Yes, it does.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah. Alright, let's see here. Yeah, so back to
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: the TSBD. Originally, the land originally belonged to John Neely Bryan,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: the founder of Dallas. And in 1894, the Rock Island
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Plow Company purchased the land from him.
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: Wait, what does the founder of Dallas mean?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I guess it means, he said... This is going to
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: be a city and I'm going to call it Dallas.
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: Okay. I was just curious.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of like Williamsburg, you know. I'm
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: sure the guy that founded it was named William.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Okay. I don't know.
• 20:30
  Speaker 6: Harrisburg.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: The guy who named it was Harris.
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 20:37
  Speaker 6: Sorry for the interruption, sir.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just Just taking the old boy to school
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: for a second here. So the Southern Rock Plow Company, again,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: this is the school book depository. It originally was only
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: five stories tall. And if it remained that way, there
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: never would have been a shooting from the sixth floor.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Because there wasn't one. But it didn't. So there might
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: have been. In 1901, again, it was struck to the building.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: lightning struck the building triggering a massive fire that nearly
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: burned it to the ground. The rebuild happened in 1902
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: when the Dow Techs was being built. So they were
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: kind of both built in the same kind of style.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: But they expanded it to seven stories instead of five.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: And it is still in its iconic spot today. Yes. Yes.
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: I did not know that lightning struck it Yes.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Apparently lightning struck twice on Elm street. Unfortunately, allegedly.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Let's blow that real quick. Share my screen here. Okay.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: This is another iconic picture. Of the school book depository
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: and the Dow Tech's building. As you can see, the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: fire escapes were added later.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: The sign's taken down. It's no longer labeled the John
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Deere Plow Company anymore. This is, of course, from 63.
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: This is a pretty rare color photograph of November 22, 1963.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And it's sometime after the assassination. You can see all
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: these cop cars parked along Elm Street down here by
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: the depository. Yet cars, rando cars. Look, there's a white
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Nash Rambler. I can see Oswald in the doorway. No,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: it's just a guy on khakis. This is sometime after
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: the assassination, after they cleared everybody the hell out of
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: there and kind of locked this little corner of the
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: world down. Very interesting. Another rare color photograph, shall we say,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: of everything. And its height and its width and its
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: breadth kind of matches. They're kind of two like sister buildings,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: if you will. Yeah. except this one has the arched
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: windows on one floor. This one's not.
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: Right. Because, of course, they added, would you say, two floors?
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. It was originally five floors, and they added
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: the upper two on the school depository originally.
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but same type of style.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, same type of style. Yeah.
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: Whoa, what you got here?
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Well, it was supposed to be a rotatable 3D model,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: but it don't rotate. So, it's just a static 3D model.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I thought we were going to be able to flip
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: this thing all, smack it up, flip it, and rub
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: it down, but apparently we cannot. So, that's my fault. Alright,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: let's get into Mr. Jim Braden, shall we? Allegedly... Although
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know how. And we'll get into that in
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: a minute. But allegedly, this is supposedly Jim Braden. And
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: you see briefly to his left the profile right here
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: of a man named Charles Brim.
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Who is standing on Elm Street in front of the
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: babushka lady with his son. And he's talking to reporters.
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: Or.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: FBI or somebody, right? But allegedly, this guy here in
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: the middle, allegedly, Jim Braden, been identified as him throughout
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: the years, but I'll tell you why it probably isn't
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: him once we get going here.
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, he does look mafios.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: He does look sus.
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: He does look sus.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Here's another photo of him. Now, this does look like him.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: It does look like his mug shots. Of course, it's
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: very hard to tell without being able to see his
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: eyeballs and his head. Right. But anybody wearing a hat
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: like that and dark sunglasses is sus. Allegedly.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: I would say so.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: That's Larry Flohr. We'll get to him a little later.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: What a... I thought that was Matt Douthat there for
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: a minute.
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: His glasses.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Hi matt if you're listening you look like larry floor.
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: Just saying you know if you go back to that
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: picture dude was like 23 or 24 at the time
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: i think it was.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: 23 yeah well this is him too sitting in sitting
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: sitting in decker's office waiting to be uh talked to.
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah i have a couple more pictures of him as
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: well later but uh including him being arrested um I
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: don't know, man. Just back in the day, people don't
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: look as old as, like, they would today. You know, if, like,
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: a 23-year-old was pictured today, he'd have, like, shaggy hair and,
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: you know.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, they looked a lot older.
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah. It's weird.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Okay. How do I get out of this? There we go. Alright. Now,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: back to Jim Brayden. Jim Brayden was not his real name,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: by the way, Joe. He had actually just changed it
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: legally two months before the assassination from Eugene Hale Brayden. Right?
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: And he had gone by a lot of different other
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: aliases in his long-storied career, shall we say. Because his
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: career is a little sus, if that's what you want
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: to call it. Okay. Uh, let's see here.
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: So he took off the G.
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: Braden, Braden?
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Well, he spelled it different, too. He's B-R-A-D-E-N from B-R-A-D-I-N-G.
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: Okay. Got it.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: He was also known as, uh, uh, Eugene Hale Bradley,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Harry Eugene Bradley. I mean, he's got a, he's got
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of them because, uh, he was arrested a
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: whole lot. Okay. All over the United States. Uh, he
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: was definitely not a good dude.
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 28:32
  Speaker 6: Not a good guy.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Not a good guy. Not a good guy at all.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: So let's see what we can find out about Eugene
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Hale Braden and a little bit of his past. So
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: we got a lot here. So from Forgive My Grief,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: this is, of course, from Penn Jones Jr., right? And
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: this is actually written by Earl Galls, a reporter in Dallas.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: And he writes about Eugene Hale Braden Suspect. He called
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: him Sus. This is the 70s version of being Sus.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: And he's going to tell you why Eugene Hale Braden
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: is Sus. Notice that he doesn't call him Jim Braden. Okay?
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: So let's do it.
• 29:26
  Speaker 6: He calls him by his original name.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, he calls him by his government name there, yeah.
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, government name.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, let's see here. So, to go back a
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: little bit, he's talking about Marcelo and the arrest of
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: one person in Dealey Plaza. The case for organized crime
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: may have preempted all the others. That was Eugene Hale Brading,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: a 48-year-old ex-convict with underworld connections and a police record
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: going back to 1934, Joe. Wow. Yeah. Federal agents are
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: now investigating reports that Brading is a courier for laundering
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the mob's illegitimate money to Amsterdam and Zurich, and that's
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: actually for Meyer Lansky. He was alleged to have been
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: a courier for Meyer Lansky, for the mafia.
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: Now that is interesting.
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Assassination. Buffs speculate his role in Dealey Plaza may have
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: been one of the mob's observers or bag man. Allegedly.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Rating was given no more than a few brief paragraphs
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: in the Warren Commission volumes and treated no more sensitively
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: than dozens of non-entities rounded up by for questioning. Pull
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: that file.
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: Sit down close. We gonna talk a while.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: Long gun.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: What'd you do, Joe? Joe's trying to sabotage the show.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: All right, maybe he'll be back in a minute. We'll see. Incredulously,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Braden gave Dallas deputy sheriffs an alias and got away
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: with it, but it actually wasn't an alias. He had
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: legally changed his name two months before the assassination, from
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Eugene Hale Braden to Jim Braden. They let him go,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: not knowing who he really was, and he got away
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: with the same ploy when FBI agents re-interviewed him several
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: months later. They could not put two and two together.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: But as Jim Braden, of Beverly Hills, California, in Dallas,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: on oil business, He was taken into custody after he
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: stepped off an elevator in the Dow Tech building across
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: the street from the Texas School Book Depository after the assassination.
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: Sorry about that.
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: My screen just went blank, and I was clicking to.
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: Try to get it back on, and I guess, I don't.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Know.
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: Matrix attack is what we call this.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: We call this the Borrelli attack.
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: I wish.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Two months earlier, he had changed the name on
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: his California driver's license to Braden. While Braden waited two
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: or three hours in the sheriff's office for a quizzing,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: his hotel roommates had checked out and beat it at
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: about 2 p.m. on November 22nd, leaving Braden behind in Dallas.
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: They beat it?
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: They left town, Joe.
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: I know. I'm just joking.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Because part of Braden's cover story, right? Now, he was
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: on parole. in California. He had to get special written
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: permission from the parole board in California to leave the
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: state on business. Right. They gave it to him, but
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: they told him he would have to check in when
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: he got here. Right. With a parole officer down here
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: just to make sure he, this is where he said
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: he was going or whatever. And he's there and he's
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: not doing anything he shouldn't be doing, which he never
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: did by the way. Uh, But the people he went
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: there with, one was named Morgan Brown, who we'll get
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: more into in just a second. And that's one of
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: the people that left him in Dallas, okay? Which is dirty.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: They had a private plane, right? And they just left
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: him in Dallas. Sorry. So once Braden got out from
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: talking to the sheriffs, he had to fly commercial to
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Houston to meet up with his buddies. Right? And then
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: instead of going back to California, where they were supposed
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: to go, Jim Brady took a detour. Guess where he went?
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: Dallas?
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: No, he was already in Dallas.
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: Did he go to Galveston? I'm taking, like, big guesses here.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: New Orleans.
• 34:16
  Speaker 6: New Orleans!
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah!
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: New Orleans, Mr.
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: Gasson. Oh, interesting.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, immediately after the assassination, he flies to Houston to
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: meet up with his two buddies, and then from there,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: flies directly to New Orleans before going back to California. Why,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: you might ask? Well, I'll tell you here in a second.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Don't worry. We'll get there, I promise. They actually left
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: town 90 minutes after the assassination. They said, we ain't
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: waiting for this dude. We out. Right. Which is kind
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: of dirty. And a little sus.
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: They did him dirty.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Now, what's also interesting is guess where Jim Braden and
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: his associates stayed in Dallas while they were there.
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: That motel that everyone alleged to have stayed at.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: That motel narrows it down considerably to all the motels
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: and hotels in Dallas. Surely you must be thinking of
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the Adolphus.
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: No, I was thinking the place that.
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: I'm kidding.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: It's the Cabana.
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: The Cabana, yes.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: That was owned by Doris Day and the Teamsters Union,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: by the way. Also, where Jack Ruby's buddy from Chicago,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Lawrence Myers, and his son, Ralph Myers, who had been
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: in Mexico City before this, were staying... Also where Jack
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Ruby went the night before the assassination, before he went
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: to Camp Easy's. He went there to have steak dinner
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: with Lawrence Myers.
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: And....
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: So that's a little sus. A little sus to me. Yes. Yeah.
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: That's a problem.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: That is a problem. Now, contrary to popular belief... Jim
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Braden was not arrested inside the Dow Text Building. He
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: was arrested outside the Dow Text Building. Why, you may ask? Well, allegedly, allegedly,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Braden had caught a bit of the motorcade, saw the president,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: and then just kept walking towards Dealey Plaza for some
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: reason and found himself shortly after the shots right outside
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: of the Dow Tech's building. And apparently after walking around,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: this is why when I showed you the picture, allegedly
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: of Jim Braden in Dealey Plaza, I told you it
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: might not be him. Allegedly, he was hanging around, right?
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: And went over to the Dow Tech's building where he
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: asked somebody, if there was a phone that he could use.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And they said, yeah, it's up on the third floor.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: So he allegedly goes in the building, goes up to
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: the third floor, but lo and behold, the pay phone
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: is out of order and doesn't work. So he's then
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: told that he has to get out of the building,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: so he gets on the elevator, which is run by a,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: what do you call them, an elevator hop, you know,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: a guy that runs the elevator back in the day.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: And he thinks something's up with this dude because he
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: doesn't recognize him and he doesn't think he belongs in
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: the building. So once they get to the ground floor,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: he follows Braden out into Daly Plaza and starts yelling
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: at a cop. Hey, you need to get this guy.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: He ain't supposed to be in this building.
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: So they scoop him up and take him over to
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Decker's office. Now, there's a bit of history between Bill
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Decker and Eugene Hale Brayden. Really?
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: Really.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Really. So back in the 50s, somewhere in the neighborhood
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: of 52, something like that, Brayden had spent some time
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: along with a buddy of his named Victor Pereira. Uh,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: in and around Dallas and Texas and stuff like that.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: And he was part of a scheme that, I guess,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: the sheriffs or Decker or somebody nicknamed them the Honeymooners.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: And they would target rich widows and try to get
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: them to hand over all their shit, basically, or try
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: to marry them or whatever.
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: Take their assets.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. And apparently him and his buddy got arrested
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: by Bill, you know, and got thrown in jail. And
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Bill Decker said, look, I'll tell you what, I'll let
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: you go. out of jail if you just get the
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: fuck out of Dallas and never come back so they
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: took that deal.
• 39:41
  Speaker 6: As I would have.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: But he came back not as Eugene Hale Braden but
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: as Jim Braden Some 10 years later.
• 39:51
  Speaker 6: Okay, so let me stop you there.
• 39:55
  Speaker 5: Could that have been the reason for the name change?
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: But again, you said it was changed two months before
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: the assassination. Was he already anticipating a return to Dallas
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: in some way? Or do you think it's more.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Well, that's all part of the conspiracy, Joe.
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: If you think something's up with that, Or the fact
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: that he knew he had to go back to Dallas
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: to do business in the oil business.
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: He can't go back as Eugene Hale Brading, as if
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: he's caught, Decker's going to throw his ass in jail. So,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah. But also to think that, I mean, I guess
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: there's some sense of paranoia that Decker would even remember
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: him over ten years later.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Buddy, uh... I wouldn't put it past any of them
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: guys to not remember stuff.
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: But you have to think, like, this is before computers, obviously.
• 41:02
  Speaker 6: Like, way before. So you can't just, like, put in.
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: She's alive! You know, put in the name and pull
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: up all the... everything.
• 41:12
  Speaker 6: You know, you'd probably have to go through file cabinets
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: and shit.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: So, I don't know. There was a lot less distractions
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: back in the... 50s and 60s, Joe.
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: That is true.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: And some people never forget a face, especially, you know,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: one that was doing dirt shit down there in Dallas. Right.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Back to this. Yeah. Braiding was asked by a sheriff's deputy, C.L.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Lummey Lewis, what he was doing across the street from
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: the school book depository. He said, I'm an oil dealer
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: from Beverly Hills. and was walking down Elm Street towards Dallas,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: or towards downtown, trying to flag a taxi when I
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: heard people talking saying, my God, the president's been shot.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: In a signed statement he gave to Alan Sweat, he said,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: police cars were passing me coming down the triple underpass,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: and I walked up among many other people, and this
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: building was surrounded by police officers with guns, and we
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: were all watching them. He said, I moved on up
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: to the building that was surrounded, and I asked one
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: of the the girls there, if there was a telephone
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I could use. She said, yeah, there is one on
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: the third floor of the building where I work, which
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing she pointed over to the Dow Techs. He says,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I walked through a passage to the elevator. They were
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: all getting on, and I got on the third floor
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: with all the other people, and there was a lady
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: using the payphone, and I asked her if I could
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: use it when she said it was out of order,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: and I tried to use it with no success. So,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: I got on the elevator and returned to the ground floor.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: And that colored man who ran the elevator said, you
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: a stranger in this building and I was not supposed
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: to let you up. And he ran outside to an
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: officer and he told the officer that he had just
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: taken me up and down the elevator. And the elevator
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: said for me to identify myself or the officer to
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: identify myself. And I presented him with a credit card.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: I am Jim Braden of Beverly Hills. And he said, well,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: we got to check everything out. And he took me
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: to his superior and asked me to wait. and we'll
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: check it out. And I was taken to the sheriff's
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: office and interrogated.
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: So, Rob, he had a credit card in the name
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: of his alias. Oh, yes. Okay.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Supposedly, Lummi Lewis and Alan Sweat recently identified braiding an
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: enlarged photograph of a man standing in a crowd about
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: halfway between the Texas School Book Depository and the underpass,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: which is the one we saw. Allegedly, it was him
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: with the hat on and the glasses. The photo taken
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: about 10 minutes after the assassination showed a group of
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: people on the sidewalk about parallel to the spot where
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: bullets struck the president, over near where Charles Brim and
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the babushka lady were standing. This would have mean Braden
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: moving further west after passing the Dow text and the
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: book depository buildings before he went back and retraced his
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: steps to the Dow text to try to phone. So
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: that would be the only way that could have happened
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: if that's him in the picture. Which he says he
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: didn't do.
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: But you said he.
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: What did you say about the triple underpass? He came
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: from that area?
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: No, no. It says.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: They identified a photograph of a man standing in a
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: crowd halfway between the book depository and the underpass.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: I see, I see.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Which would be right where Charles Brim and the babushka
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: lady were standing.
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Which is why we have Charles Brim in the picture, too.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Allegedly talking to a reporter.
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: Got it, got it.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: So he gave Chief Probation Officer Roger Carroll his real name,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: not the Jim Braden he used, after his arrest 24
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: hours later. because the day before the assassination, Brading had
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: checked in with the U.S. Probation Office in Dallas, which
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: was required for interstate trips. Carroll filed a report of
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: the visit, stating Brading advised he had planned to see
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Lamar Hunt and other oil speculators while here. Hunt is
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: one of the sons of Dallas oil billionaire H.L. Hunt
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: and is owner of the Kansas City Chiefs professional football team.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Years later, Brady reportedly told an official of the LAPD
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: he didn't go to Hunt offices in downtown Dallas on
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: November 21st because of his criminal record, which doesn't make
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: any sense. But okay. He said one of his traveling
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: companions from California, a Morgan H. Brown, did show up
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: November 21st in Hunt's reception room with two other men
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: seeking a meeting with one of the Hunt's sons. And
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: it was Brown, who has since served time in a
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: California prison, For attempted murder, by the way. Who had
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: signed for the third floor suite for braiding himself and
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: possibly others on November 21st at the Cabana Hotel in Dallas.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Like I told you. But we'll get back to Morgan
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Brown because he's interesting. And whoever these other two guys
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: were with him that we'd never know who they are.
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: That booked out of town 90 minutes after. Yeah.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: And who met with Lamar Hunt. And by the way,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: at Hunt Oil Company, right, that day, allegedly Jack Ruby
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: was there as well.
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: Right, trying to get a stripper a job, right?
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Yep, heading for Lamont's offices on November 21st, but he
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: too contended that he never went upstairs, allegedly. So you've
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: got him and Ruby in close proximity a lot on
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: November 21st at H.L. Hunt's office and at the Cabana.
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So it's a little bit of a problem.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: It's a little sauce.
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Peaches asked really quickly, Rob, was there no phone
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: booths outside on the street? You know, I've never seen
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: any in any of.
• 47:20
  Speaker 6: The pictures, and we have a lot of them, or
• 47:22
  Speaker 6: the videos, in that area.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure.
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I'm not sure either, but I would wager probably not.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: This was before Superman made them popular.
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: Even I got that one.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Yes. Ruby told Warren Commission investigators that he drove a
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: young woman named Connie Trammell to the Mercantile Securities Building
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: here for a job interview with Hunt on the morning
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: of November 21st. He said that he attended to some
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: tax matters with his attorney in the same building while
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: Trammell went up to the Hunt offices. So, yeah, this
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: is a little sus. The Warren Report also relates that
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Ruby met on the evening of the 21st with friends
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: from Chicago in the Bon Vivant Club of the same
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Cabana Hotel where Brady and Brown were staying. The Brady
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: and Brown suite faced what would have been Kennedy's parade
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: route up Stemmons Freeway the next day had the president
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: not been killed.
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: Hmm.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah.
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: Chicago connection is interesting as well, of course. Yeah.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Hotel records show that 39 local telephone calls were made
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: from that hotel suite in those two-day period, November 21st
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: to November 22nd. That's a lot of phone calls, Joe.
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: That's a lot.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Two... Two long-distance calls, one to a mobile Alabama oil
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: well driller, and a one-minute person-to-person call the night of
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: November 21st to an unpublished number in Houston. Most likely
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: these were not Braden's calls, says an associate, because he
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: never makes calls from anything but a payphone, no matter
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: how lavishly he is living otherwise. Sus. A little sus?
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: A little sus.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Hotel records also show that Brown checked out of the
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: hotel at 2.01 p.m. on November 22nd While Brading is
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: sitting in the sheriff's office waiting to be interrogated. Yeah,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: that's a problem. Yeah. Federal parole records do not determine
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: the whereabouts of Brading on the afternoon of November 22nd
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: to the afternoon of November 26th when he checked in
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: with the Houston U.S. Probation Office. In the interim, Oswald
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: was apprehended after allegedly shooting J.D. Tippett. Ruby shot Oswald
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: to death in the basement of the Dallas Police Department.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Brady's parole officer in Los Angeles, Sam Barrett, had told
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: him that he had permission to travel for 10 days
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: in Texas. Leaving November 20th on oil business, he was
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: to go directly to Dallas and remain there until November
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: 25th when he was to go to Houston. and then
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: to Opelousas, Louisiana, according to Barrett's instructions. Barrett said the
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Dallas probation officer reported that Brading had promised to notify
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: us of his departure from Dallas unless this should occur
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: over the weekend. We told him if this should occur,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: then he might check in with Mr. Lawrence Miggins in
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Houston on Monday, November 25th. Barrett said Brading, in November 63,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: had expressed a kind of contempt for Brown... over a
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: losing financial transaction with him and wanted as little to
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: do with him as possible. The parole officer said he
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: was surprised to learn that they traveled together to Dallas
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: on November 21st and shared the same hotel suite. He
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: also noted, however, that traveling with Brown may have been
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: the cause for revoking Brading's parole. An FBI agent who
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: handles post-assassination developments was most intrigued that Brown checked out
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: for Brading and himself while Brading was still waiting to
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: be interrogated. If Brady and his companions were involved in
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: a shady deal in Dallas unconnected with the assassination, they
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: may have wanted to flee the area with all the
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: lawmen converging on Dallas, the agent said. On the other hand,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: he could imagine them sitting tight in Dallas until their
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: planned departure on November 24th, because any shady deal would
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: probably go undetected with the police totally preoccupied with the assassination,
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: which is probably true. The FBI's mission was to disprove
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: any connection at all with the assassination with people they interviewed.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: You think? Everybody except Oswald. Brading was no exception. We
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: found absolutely nothing whatsoever that connects this guy with the assassination.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Of course. Nothing to see here, folks. Right. So again,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: on September 11, 1963, that is when he changed the
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: name on his license from Eugene Hale Brading to Jim
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Braden for business reasons. Let's see. On September the 13th,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: two days later, a Dallas newspaper first printed an unofficial
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: report that Kennedy would visit Dallas in November. Rating was
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: given permission to go from Los Angeles to Houston on
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: September 15th to discuss business with a Mr. D.D. Ford,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: a land man with Tidewater Oil Company, now Getty Oil.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: The Warren Report states that Oswald, on his mysterious trip
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: to Mexico from New Orleans to visit the Cuban embassy,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: was to have left Houston by bus at 2 a.m.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: on September 25th, the last day of Brady's visit to
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: that city, which is interesting. Ford told this reporter a
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: check of his daily reminder book, 1963, shows that the
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: only time I have in any way shown him here
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: in Houston was November 26th. He said he was dealing
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: directly with Dallas oil promoter Roger Bowman in September 63
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: for the possible purchase of production rights by Tidewater of
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: a gas field near Opelousas. Bowman was the liaison for
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: some Californians, Brading included, who owned the leases. Ford said
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: his daily reminder had a note that Bowman called me
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: and would come by on September 17th. He couldn't find
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: a subsequent note that Bowman had come by, so he
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: may have been in contact with Brading at that time
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: and may not have followed up, may not have come by.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Brading seemed to be deceiving his Los Angeles parole officer
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: on his trip to Texas in late 1963. Why? If
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: he was not involved in the assassination plot, did he
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: have other reasons? Who was the real Braden Braden? Well,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: for one thing, he was a natural-born swindler, accustomed to
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: living high off the hog, thanks at least to part
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: to the rich women that he married, Joe. Some women
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: whom he stung, however, stung back. For this, after serving
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: almost five years of a 12-year sentence, he was paroled
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: from a federal prison in 1959. He and his partner,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Victor Pereira, both went to prison for embezzling $ 50, 000, which
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: is a lot of money in the 50s.
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: From a wealthy Roswell, New Mexico widow after she was
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: conned into marrying Pereira. Their 1951 convictions were appealed all
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: the way to the U.S. Supreme Court before they lost
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: in 54. Braden got tougher treatment in Dallas County for
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: being a vagrant than he did when sheriff's deputies encountered
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: him 11 years later near the assassination site. In 1952,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: after Pereira paid Braden's $ 50 vagrancy fine, Dallas Sheriff Bill
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Decker refused to release either man unless they both left
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Dallas County in 48 hours. This was the usual treatment
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Decker gave suspected organized crime emissaries caught roosting in Dallas County.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Brayden complained that he and Pierre were being harassed, and
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Decker shot back, You're in my county now, boys! Yeah.
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: It's kind of a nice follow-up to our last episode
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: dealing with the Dallas Mafia.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:16
  Speaker 5: In terms of the laissez-faire type of approach that a
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: lot of them had towards it.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: The vagrancy rap stemmed from Brady's lingering presence in Dallas
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: without any apparent effort to earn his take. At the
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Dallas area mansion of Mrs. D.A. Little, the widow of
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: the President Joe of the Magnolia Oil Company. Maybe you've
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: heard of it.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: I have.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: The whole Magnolia party. Yes. Where Lee Harvey Oswald met
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: George DeMorenshield.
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: And a lot of other people. Mm-hmm.
• 55:57
  Speaker 6: Yes, the white Russians.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So here we're getting tied up all over the
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: place here. Her husband died and Mrs. Little quickly became
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Pereira's sixth wife after a whirlwind courtship.
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: Sixth wife.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I told you, these guys were nicknamed the Honeymooners.
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they were swindlers, that's for sure.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The Decker Automatum got front page play and made
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Brading a public figure in Dallas. So there's why he
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: was afraid to go back to Dallas, Joe, using that name.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: It was on the front page of the paper and
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: made him a public figure in Dallas.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: But 11 years later, Brading was to tell the FBI
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: during his assassination interview that he was not familiar with Dallas.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: He said from his California home that he had, quote,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: been in Dallas twice before, and that was over 10
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: years ago. Despite his lavish lifestyle, Braden never lost his
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: touch for groveling for loot. Three months after the assassination,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: he pleaded guilty to shoplifting, Joe. He pushed a cart
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: full of groceries out the door of a Safeway store
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: in West Hollywood, California, without stopping to pay at the
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: checkout counter. And he got a whopping fine of $ 56
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: for trying to steal $ 20. 14 in food. That's pretty brazen, Mr.
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: Braden.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: Sorry, though. That was supposed to be a joke.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Surprisingly... I'm surprised he got caught doing it. Like, god damn, man.
• 57:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, that's... Yeah, seems ridiculous, but.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: And acquaintance... Yeah, go ahead.
• 57:38
  Speaker 6: Would have put it past him.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: No. And acquaintance of Brady was not surprised about the
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: shot blitzing, saying he's got a fuse on his temper
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: about a half inch long. And if they had a
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: line of people waiting to check out, he said he
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: would have just... Been the guy who would walk around
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: the crowd and push that cart right out the door
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: and say, to hell with this shit. He says, I mean,
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: the guy is amoral to the core. He is not
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: guilty of anything unless he's caught. And walking out of
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: that grocery store is as natural an act for this
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: man as stealing 25 grand. Because the man knows no immorality.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: There's no such word to him because there's no such
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: thing as being immoral. Brady's first taste of prison came
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: in 1934 when at the tender age of 19 he
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: was sentenced to state prison in Kansas for burglary. He
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: got out on parole in 1938 and three years later
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: was arrested in Miami. Joe? So now we're in the
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: proximity of the Florida Mafia and Mr. Santos Travacante. Because
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: he was arrested in Miami for operating a gambling house,
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: which you cannot do unless, of course, you have permission
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: from Yes. Yes. on the black market and was sentenced
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: to one year in jail the third time. He was
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: then arrested in 1948 in Camden, New Jersey, another mafia hotspot,
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: where organized crime flourishes as a material witness in a
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: criminal case. In addition to his underworld connections on the
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: West Coast, Brady seems to have had an affinity with
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: the Teamsters Union. Hello, Jimmy Hoffa. During the past 15 years,
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: fresh out of prison in 1960, he married a wealthy
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: widow named Shocker. Shocker. Of a Teamsters official from Chicago.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: Who had, you know, accidentally shot himself with a. 45.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Twice in the stomach. Allegedly.
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: Oh my god.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Brayden lived with this wife in what was once Bing
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Crosby's luxurious home on the 18th hole of the Thunderboy
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: Country Club in Palm Springs, California, Joe. Okay. Living fucking large, dude.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah.
• 59:58
  Speaker 6: I can't hate on him for that.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: No. Two months after the assassination, Brady became a charter
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: member of the Teamsters Finance La Costa Country Club about
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: 20 miles south of President Nixon's Western White House at
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: San Clemente, California. La Costa was where Nixon's aides John Dean,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: John Ehrlichman, and Bob Haldeman met last February to get
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: their signal straight on Watergate.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 6: A charter member Yeah.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 6: Of the Teamsters.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Or... La Costa Country Club.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: Yes. Interesting.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that means founding member. Yes. Brading's Teamsters widow wife
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: had her marriage dissolved one month before the assassination after
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: learning that Brading was still married to another woman or two.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: In all, Brading's marriages at least count. We're approaching one dozen.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: according to an informed source on the West Coast. I mean,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not a player, I just crushed a lot. In
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: the late 60s, he returned back to Dallas to marry
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: the rich widow of the founder of a Cadillac agency.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Her money began going fast and the relationship crashed after
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: a brief stint. Brayden's latest venture into matrimony two years
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: ago involved a wealthy Mexico City woman from whom he
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: inherited a Learjet to travel around. And lived in Mexico
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: and Spain when he wasn't at La Costa Country Club.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: He had access to a jet?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: He really knew how to pick those widows.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He also traveled abroad before the assassination. He went
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: to Switzerland and he bought a new vacuna coat made
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: out of soft seal Skin. Joe? Legit.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: Seal skin.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Which at the time was popular because of the
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: scandal involving Sherman Adams, President Dwight Eisenhower's top aide. Brayden
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: liked to dress well and was a notorious name dropper.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: This would mean he did use the names of Donald
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Ford and Lamar Hunt to get permission from his parole
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: officer to come to Texas when he was actually meeting
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: with the lowest echelon of people on his oil deals.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: If you listen to Brayden talk, he dealt only with, uh, J. Paul, J.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: Paul Jr., and Walter and George, whoever the hell these
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: people are. He was on first name acquaintance with these people,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: the Gettys, and if you listened to him long enough,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: your head would swim with names he'd drop. He'd be
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: a perfect courier, of course. Tying Braden to all of
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: this is kind of hard to feature because of all
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: his name dropping. I've never heard the man ever drop
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: any name that wasn't a public figure or a top
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: flight citizen of the highest caliber. I've never heard him
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: say anything about Costello or Marcello. Of course, an operator
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: of that caliber wouldn't because he's such a pro and
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: he's so well-grilled in his methodology that it just drummed
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: into him. Quote, he's the perfect cover man.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 6: Interesting question here, Jason.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: If there was a movie about this guy, who should
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 5: play him? And I guess he would have been about
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: Like 50-ish? Around the time of the assassination? You said
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 5: he was 19 in the 40s?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 6: Something like that. Anyways.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: He was born in 1914. So he would have been
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: about 50 in 63, 64.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: This is what he looked like in 48. Does not
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: look like a good guy.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 6: Not like David Furrier.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Looks like a young Joe Borelli.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: There we go.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Allegedly.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: Allegedly. Nicer nose.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: Yes. More of the ski jump nose than the Roman variation. Yes. Yes.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: This is from the 1948 Camden case where he was
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: a material witness against Dominic Maria. And the case ended
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: up being dismissed. But he was born, if you look
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: here on the left, he was born in fucking Fort Worth, bro.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: Which is right outside of Dallas.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: So it kind of contradicts the whole I was born
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: in Kansas bullshit, right? Yeah. I'm a salesman. What do
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: you want from me? Right.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 6: I think he was just spewing lies.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 5: Wherever he could.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: Well, this is when he's using the alias Harry Bradley,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: when he was in Camden, New Jersey in 1948. So
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: maybe the Fort Worth birthplace is a lie, too. Who knows?
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 5: Camden, New Jersey, huh? I've been there. Yeah. Not a
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: place you.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 6: Put on the top of your list.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's a bit of his rap sheet, if you will.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Going back to the 40s. In Miami, Florida, he was
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: busted a lot. For different things. Auto theft. The War
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: Powers Act. Gas ration books. Miami Beach. I can't read it. But... Definitely...
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of arrests in Miami, Florida. He was arrested
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: in New York in 45, selling gas coupons. Again in Miami,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: violation of probation. Federal Correctional Institute, Tallahassee, Florida, probation violation,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: also selling gas coupons again. And then in 48, Camden,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: New Jersey, is Harry Eugene Bradley, dismissed as a material witness. This,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: I guess, is a little blurb. And this is his
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: statement on November 22nd in the Sheriff's Department, right?
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: Alright, let's see what he has to say.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: Well, this is what he had to say. He said,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: I'm here on the oil business. I was walking down
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Elm Street trying to get a cab and there wasn't any.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: I heard people talking, saying, my God, the president's been shot.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Police cars were passing me, coming down towards the triple underpass,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: and I walked up among the other people, and this
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: building was surrounded by police officers with guns, and we
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: were all watching them. I moved on up to the
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: building across the street from the building that was surrounded,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: and I asked one of the girls if there was
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: a telephone that I could use, and she said yes.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: There is one on the third floor of the building
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: where I work. So I walked through the passage of
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: the elevator. They were all getting on, and I got
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: off on the third floor with all the other people,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: and there was a lady using the payphone, and I
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: asked her if I could use it when she hung up,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: and she said it was out of order, and I
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: tried to use it, but with no success. I asked
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: her how I can get out of the building, and
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: she said that there is an exit right there. And
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: then she said, wait a minute, there's an elevator here now.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: So I got on the elevator and returned to the
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: ground floor, and the colored man who ran the elevator said,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: you are a stranger in this building, and I am
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: not supposed to let you up. And he ran outside
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: to an officer and said to the officer that he
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: had just taken me up and down in the elevator,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: and the officer said for me to identify myself. And
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: so I gave him the credit card, and he said, well,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: we'll have to check everything out. And I was taken
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: to the sheriff's office and interrogated. Yada, yada, yada, right?
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: Jim Braden. Not Eugene Hale Braden. There's Larry Flohr being
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: taken out.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: And so there was actually three people who was arrested
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: coming out of the Dow Tech's building. We have Larry Flohr,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Jim Braden, and an older gentleman dressed rather shabbily, which
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: I'll show you a little later. Uh, but we don't
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: know who he was exactly. Um, Again, here he is
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: in the background here as Charles Brim is being interviewed.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: He's in the background here with the hat on and
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: the school book depository in the background. And this is
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: a 50... 51 braiding mugshot. Here. Again, more of his
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: and other aliases of his with Gene Brady. I mean,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: he had a lot of aliases, bro. He was arrested
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: so many freaking times. It is not even funny. I mean,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: this is his rap sheet from the 40s, 50s, and 60s.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: And a lot of it is gambling, stolen property, mail fraud, fugitive,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: violation of the War Powers Act, mail fraud, mail fraud, burglary, conspiracy,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: stolen art, burglary, operating a gambling house, auto theft. I mean,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: this guy's a piece of shit, right?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: So this is Sam Barrett. This is a guy that
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: was Braden's probation officer. And he just tells a story
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: about Braden. And I don't know why he's telling it
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: in 1972. But we've already kind of gone over what
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: he had to say in the goals article. This is
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: a guy that knew Braden.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 5: Let's see. There's Victor Perriello.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Victor Perriello. Again, I think this was for a lawsuit
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: deposition because....
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: It does say lawsuit took several days.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: Because at the time there was a, I don't know
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: if he, how famous he was, but I think he
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: worked for CBS news. His name was Peter Noyes. And
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: he wrote a book that came out, I think in
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: 1972 called legacy of doubt. And in that book, uh,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: He wrote a lot, a lot, a lot of shit
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: about Jim Braden. Being Eugene Hale Braden and the whole
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: background and how sus he was and everything else. So,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: Braden sued him for $ 20 million for libel and slander
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: and all this shit. Saying that he ruined his life
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: and all this stuff. Pretty sure he lost the lawsuit, but... Yeah,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: I bet he did. Allegedly.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 6: Good effort, though.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: He tried.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 5: He tried.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: He tried. Yeah, so Earl Goals was writing a lot
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: of stuff about braiding as well back in the day.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: Most of it based on Noyes' book and reporting. And again,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: here it's mentioned federal agents now investigating reports of braiding
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: as a courier for money laundering and the mob's illegal
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: illegitimate money from Amsterdam and Zurich. Um, I'm not going
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: to sit here and read all that shit, but yeah,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: go ahead.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 5: But I was going to say, you mentioned he was
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: in Switzerland at some time, right?
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: That kind of lines up with money laundering, if you will.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: Like, who's that guy that George de Mournchia went to
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: Switzerland with?
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 6: Oh, it's not Oatmans, right?
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Willem Oatmans, yeah.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: Allegedly did some illegal banking over there as well so
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: let's fast forward to the hsca and that was coming
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: about and jim braden decides at this time he's living
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: in charlotte north carolina and he writes a letter to
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: him and says i am uh let's see mr borin
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: international or internal revenue service at fort worth has refused
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: to cooperate with the fbi Mr. Bourne refuses to give
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: the name or names of those in the news media
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: or authors who have stated that I, Jim Braden, and
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: a Nelson Bunker hunt formed a kill squad in order
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: to assassinate former President John F. Kennedy. I'm respectfully requesting
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: at this time that the House Select Committee subpoena Mr.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: Bourne in order to learn who he is in league
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: with in the media or authors who anticipate a profit
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: by their publications at my expense. and that of the
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: Internal Revenue Services. This matter of a kill squad must
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: be investigated and the truth must come out. It has
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: been my pleasure to have met with you, and I
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: trust you and the staff will seek the information necessary
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: in order to learn the truth regarding this matter. Kindest
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: personal regards and best wishes sincerely, Jim Braden. So, at
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: the time of the HSCA, he did go and was interviewed,
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: of course, by the House Select Committee on Assassinations. But
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: he didn't come off much, of course. We get his
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: side of the story, which is a whole lot of bullshit.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: Now, what's interesting here is he's writing to the House
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: Select Committee on Assassinations in Washington, D.C., right? He gives
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: his return address in Charlotte, North Carolina, right? See that, Joe?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: Now, look over here.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: Actually, no.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 6: You've got to share it.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 5: You've got to put it up. Oh, shit.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 5: It's okay.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 5: Yes. East 7th Street, Charlotte, North Carolina.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: Right. But look where it's postmarked from.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 5: What does that say?
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 5: I was about to say Lauderdale?
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: Wow. Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 5: Which would make sense considering this past Miami....
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it doesn't make sense if he's living in
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: North Carolina. Allegedly.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 5: Correct, correct, correct.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 6: But there's past confusery.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: So he's likely not really living in North Carolina. His
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: mail is going to that address, whatever it is, whoever
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: lives there. But he's actually living in Florida. So he's
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: lying to the HSCA about where he's living. And this
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: is about that author I told you about, Pete Noyes.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: From KNXT Los Angeles CBS studio or CBS television stations.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: And this is from a dude from the U.S. probation officer, right?
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Chief of U.S. probation officer, Roger Carroll. And he's CCing
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: Gordon Shanklin, special agent in charge of the FBI in Dallas.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 5: That is interesting.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: Interesting. So this is what he says. As you indicate,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: Brading was in this office on November 21st, 63, and
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: again on November 22nd, hour unknown. I have no recollection
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: of the incident, and a study of the correspondence rings
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: no bells. We have no Mr. Flowers employed here, nor
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: did we in November 63. Brading possibly could have obtained
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: glimpses of Kennedy from this building. However, a much taller
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: building would block a direct view of the parade route.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 6: Are they talking about floors?
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 5: No?
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: No, because the guy that he was supposed to meet,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: I guess, he was supposed to check in with at
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: this probation office in Dallas was named Mr. Flowers. So
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: what Brady says is he says that he went there
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: on the 22nd, and there was no Mr. Flowers there,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: so he just.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 6: Left, allegedly.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, typical excuse. Right.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: Right. He said the office was closed and we walked
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: over to Harwood Street in order to get a good
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: view of the president on November 22nd. I've directed our
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: local FBI's attention to your letter. I just hope this
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: information will be helpful to you. Let's not.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 5: It was not.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: It was not. I love these old ads, man. Get
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: your Copenhagen clogs, Joe.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was about to say, I almost read it
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 5: as like Crocs, but clogs.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: I think you would look good in a pair of those.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 5: I think so, too.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: It looks very stylish.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, get a little extra inch. Who couldn't use an
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 5: extra inch, you know?
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: That's what she said. Jesus Christ. That's some nice bikes
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: for $ 36. A 20-inch high-riser. Come to the Avalon Chinese Emporium.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Quilted winter jackets, only $ 29. Just arrived from China.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 5: I sell like a few hundred dollar bike. I mean,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 5: it's not like anything that sneezes out either.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: Come to the chair store on 3rd Avenue.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 5: The chair store.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: We sell nothing but chairs. Come to the Village Chess Shop.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Your first free chess lesson with purchase.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 5: Of $ 20.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 5: It is interesting. Plague. What does that say?
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: You bought Christmas stamps to wipe out tuberculosis. You bought
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: Easter seals to wipe out polio. Now buy no more
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: seals to obliterate the latest plague, which is Richard Nixon, apparently.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: Watergate Land USA.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 5: Oh, man.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Ha! Come to the Fashion New International. Come get your jacket, y'all.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: From Turkey, Spain, India, and Afghanistan. Now, why on the fuck,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: if you were living in Dallas, would you wear some
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: shit like this? Oh, I see. This is from the
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: Village Voice newspaper in 73. So this is in New York. Okay,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: I get it now. Some weird people in New York
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: in the 70s.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 5: Yes. Still today. Yeah.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: And in the suburbs of Connecticut.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: Allegedly. Sorry, I love looking at these ads, man. Crazy.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 5: No, it's really interesting.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: This is a steep one. So, okay, William Sharper. This
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: was the black dude who was running the elevator in
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: the Dow Tech building. So, of course, the FBI talked
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: to him. And what does he say, Joe? He says
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: some odd things.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 5: And wasn't there some confusion whether his name was Sharp
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 5: or Sharper? I don't know. Oh, I've read that somewhere.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know about that.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 6: Sharper, let's go with that.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: That's what it says here. We'll go with that. Yes.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: Sharper related that on November 22nd, he had left the
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: Dow Tech's building and is posting the elevator to observe
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: President Kennedy, whose car he thought was to pass by
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: the corner of Houston and Main Street. According to Sharper,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: a short time after the president's car had passed by
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: that point, He heard several shots and subsequently crossed to
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: the east side of Houston and walked to the corner
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: of Houston and Elm, immediately in front of the schoolbook depository,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: where he remained standing for a very short time. He
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: advised that he saw nothing of pertinence and can furnish
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: no information that would be of assistance in this investigation.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: I ain't seen nothing, sir. I don't know nothing. I
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: ain't seen nothing. I'll be of no help to y'all whatsoever.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: He then returned to his post at the Dow Tech's building.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: Approximately 10 minutes later, Joe, a white dude, age 30
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: to 35, attired in a light-colored overcoat and a light-colored
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: felt hat, entered the Dow Tech's building by the freight
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: entrance and asked to use the telephone. Sharper said that
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: there was a.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 5: By the freight entrance?
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 6: Does that mean the backside?
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: He asked to use the telephone... Sharper said that there
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: was a payphone on the third floor and used the
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: freight elevator to carry this man to the third floor
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: where he left him. After Sharper had made several trips
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: in the elevator, he returned to the third floor and
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: picked up the same man and returned him in the
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: elevator to the first floor. He explained about seven minutes
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: had elapsed between the time he left this man on
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: the third floor and the time that he picked him up.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: As the man was leaving the building, Sharper advised a
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: police officer who was by the building that this man
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: had been in the building and he did not belong
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: in there. Now, the poor guy's looking for a telephone, right?
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: He stated this man then voluntarily departed with the police
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: officer for questioning. And that's all the pertinent information I
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: have regarding this incident and the assassination, sir. I don't
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: know nothing else.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 5: What.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Do you.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 5: How would he... So, allegedly, the payphone on the third
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 5: floor was not working, correct?
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 6: Do you think he would know that?
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 5: Do you think that woman, the publisher lady, would know that?
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: Well, what I was going to say is that Sharper's
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: testimony here directly contradicts the woman. So, did he ask... Well,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: he says he asked a woman, right? A lady. And
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: then he got on the elevator with a lot of
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: other fucking people and went up to the third floor.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: He didn't mention anything about asking the elevator guy where
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: the payphone was. But the elevator guy says this guy
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: asked him if there was a payphone, right? He says
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: he entered and asked to use the telephone in the building.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: Sharper related that there was a payphone on the third floor.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: So a black dude telling you there's a payphone on
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: the third floor is a lot different than a white
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: chick telling you that there's a payphone on the third floor.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying here?
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: And oh, look who took this testimony, Joe.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 5: Oh, my God. Stop it.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: Mr. Warren DeBruys, who is still in Dallas as of
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: January 22nd, 64. This is what we call cleaning up
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: after the assassination. Wow. Yeah, New Orleans FBI agent Warren
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: DeBruys is still in Dallas as of January 22nd, 64,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: interviewing witnesses.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 5: Right. So you think November, or December, January, at least
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 5: two months later.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, considering this is the 22nd of January, and
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: Kennedy was killed on the 22nd of November, yeah, that's
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: exactly two months, Joe.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's a long time to be on, quote, assignment,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 5: if you will.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 6: When you have a bunch of other FBI agents there.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 5: Like, you're not, like, short of. on phoebes you know.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah so the fbi they got alan sweat who was
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: the chief chief deputy sheriff dallas county sheriff's office and
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: he gave him a copy of jim braden's message and
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: on january 24th you know we already read this i
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: was here i'm here on oil business that uh and
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: right here he says i asked one of the girls
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: if there was a phone that i could use and
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: she said yeah there's one on the third floor of
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: the building where I work. So I walked through a
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: passage to the elevator and they were all getting on.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: And I got off on the third floor with all
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: the other people and there was a lady using the pavement.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: He doesn't mention nothing about asking the black guy about
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: a telephone. Right. And again, this is taken by Warren DeBreeze. Right.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 6: Which is a problem.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: Anytime you see his name at the bottom of anything,
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: chances are they're trying to cover something up, folks. More
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: than likely.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, just ask over us, Pena.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: Again, there's a copy of his thing. Thing, thing. So
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: they were doing a little check-in. Check-in, check-in. Says he
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: entered the building, proceeded to the telephone. Brayden has no
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: information concerning the assassination, and both Lee Harvey Oswald and
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: Jack Ruby are unknown to him.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 5: Allegedly. Of course.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 6: They always ask that question.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: Always.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 5: Yes, just in case.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 5: Zodiac.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: Zodiac News Service. Yeah, money. I think that's about it
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: for this file. I do believe. I mean, Earl Goals
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: was all over this mother effer.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 5: Right. So let me ask you this, Rob. When did
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 5: You said, like, some of his buddies left 90 minutes
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 5: after the assassination. We know Brayden was there for a
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 5: little while in DPD, in the municipal building. When did
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 5: he leave, do you know, Dallas? And where did he
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 5: go from there?
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: Or is that not clear? Yeah, his buddies left him, supposedly,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: on the 24th. He flew to Houston to meet up
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: with them and then went to New Orleans. He was
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: supposed to go to Opelousas, but he went to New Orleans.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: And there's a reason he went to New Orleans. You
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: know the reason?
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 6: Enlighten me, sir.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you. Well, Brayden had actually spent a
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: little time in New Orleans, Joe, in the summer of 1963.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 5: Really?
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: Really. And he actually spent most of his time in
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: New Orleans in 1963, in the summer of 63, you know,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: when Oswald was there.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: In the Per Marquette building in New Orleans, where he
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: had an office. Okay? Okay. He was working out of
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: the office of oil geologist Vernon Main Jr. in the
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: Per Marquette office on the 17th floor, which happened to
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: be right down the hall from the offices of 1G
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: Ray Gill. That's a problem. Who is the lawyer for
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: Carlos Marcello and the office out of which David Ferry is?
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: Was working in the summer of 1963 as well.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 5: Yes, as a private investigator, yes. Toops, great comment here.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 5: Maybe comment of the night. He went back to Nala
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 5: with Debris. It's the right.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: Debris stayed in Dallas.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true. He stayed there for two months. Yeah.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 5: But it would be funny just to AI them in
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 5: a car together.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can't make this shit up, dude.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 6: That's crazy.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: Braden was in New Orleans in the summer of 63.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: He had an office right down the hall from G.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: Ray Gill. And if you go back to Beckham's testimony,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of the planning... And movers and shakers for
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: the assassination had met and were working out of G.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: Ray Gill's office in the Perry Marquette building in the
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: summer of 63. So, there's that. Also, when he appeared
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: before the HSCA, Joe, his lawyer's name was Twombly. Which
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: is an odd name, right?
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But Chauncey Holt... however much you want to believe
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: whatever he has to say, mentioned that there was a
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: guy who supplied Secret Service badges to people in Diddley Plaza,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: and his name was Twombly.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 5: Huh.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 6: When did he say that? Do you know off the
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 6: top of your head?
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: Well, that was in the 80s or 90s.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 5: Okay, so he could have, I guess, named it off
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 5: the top of your head.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: Apparently this guy who was the lawyer for Jim Braden,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: this Twombly was asked about it and he, and he
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: denied being related to the California Twomblies. Uh, he says
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: he didn't know who they were, but in his HSCA testimony,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: he did the most, the biggest thing to come out
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: of there was the fact that he did admit to, uh,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: living with his wife in New Orleans during the summer
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: of 63, and working out of Vernon Main Jr. 's
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: office in the Pierre Marquette building, which is on the
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: same 17th floor just down the hall from G. Ray Gill, which,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: as they say, is a huge problem.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 6: It definitely is.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's hard to look past that kind of
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 5: coincidence when you look at the whole mafia angle.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: Now, Garrison went to talk to G. Ray Gill and
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: asked him if he could have his phone records for
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: any collect calls that David Ferry had been making out
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: of his office. And G. Ray Gill was like, yeah,
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: this guy's going to fucking bankrupt me. And he told
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: his secretary, go get the bills. So Garrison was going
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: through there.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 6: Ferry's going to bankrupt G.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 5: Ray Gill.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, making collect calls out of his office without permission.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 5: And we, of course, know about how he was on
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 5: the phone with Gibray the whole time in his weekend
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 5: adventure to Dallas on the weekend of the assassination.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: Allegedly. Allegedly. So Garrison obtained Gill's office telephone records and
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: found that one call from Gill's office was to a
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: Chicago number that listed among the records of the Warren Commission.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: That number went to the Chicago apartment of Gene Ace,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: also known as West... a number also called by sporting
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: goods salesman Lawrence Myers, a close friend of Jack Ruby.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: By the way, Lawrence Myers and Gene Ace were staying
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: at the Cabana Motel. That is who Jack Ruby went
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: to visit the night before the assassination, and that is
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: also where Jim Braden and his buddy Morgan Wilson were staying.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's a lot of connections here we can make.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: Some weird ones.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: Let's see. Yeah, apparently Larry Myers gave $ 500 to Ruby
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: for his stupid thing at the Dallas Fairgrounds where he
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: met Larry Crayford, a thing called How Hollywood Makes Movies.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: When the show closed, Ruby hired Roustabout and former Army
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: soldier Larry Crayford and Joyce McDonald, who became one of
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: Ruby's dancers. Let's see. when Myers returned to Dallas on
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: November 20th, he was accompanied by Jean Ace, who he
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: called Miss West and described to the Warren commission, described
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: her as quote, a dumb, but accommodating broad.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 6: Accommodating.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 5: That's, that's nice.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 6: Apparently, uh, she's a giver, not a taker.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She's very accommodating. But supposedly David Ferry called her
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: from G. Ray Gill's office. at some point before the assassination.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: At the Magnolia oil party, Oswald met Volkmar Schmidt, a
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: German oil geologist who worked for Magnolia and talked with
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: Oswald for two hours mentioning the plot to kill Hitler
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: and suggesting that General Walker should be killed as Hitler
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: should have been. Shortly thereafter, Oswald purchased the rifle through
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: the mail and is accused of taking a shot at
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: Walker that missed. Allegedly. Allegedly. And I've got a shit
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: ton more, but we'll save that for members only. I'm
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: going to turn it over to Joseph now as we
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: talk about Larry Flora.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 6: So Mr.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 5: Braden Brading was not the only Skafusa arrested in the
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 5: Daltex building that day. Another one was Larry Flora. And
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 5: if you want to share my PowerPoint, sir.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: Si, senor.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 5: This is just a little quick, for those that might
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 5: not be familiar, of exactly where the Daltex building was
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 5: in relation to the TSBD. You can see the pergola,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 5: the grassy knoll, of course, the fence here, and, of course,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 5: the railroad overpass. Let's see. So, as we like to do... Okay,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 5: so this is from... This is... I believe you showed
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 5: this picture, but it might not have been of this quality.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 5: This is from Killing of the President by Robert Grodin.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 5: Larry Florer was arrested coming out of the Dallas tax building.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 5: Reportedly drunk, he was held for questioning and later released.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 6: So.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 5: Again, how this guy is 23 or 24, I do
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 5: not know, but whatever. People looked older back in the day.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 5: Might have been those mob bros. And this is another.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 5: This is from the DPD Texas Portal History. Original black
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 5: and white photograph negative taken by Dallas Times Herald staff
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 5: photographer William Allen. Image shows Dallas citizen Larry Flore in custody.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 5: at the Dallas County Sheriff's Department on November 22, 1963.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 5: The man he was identified with is Deputy Weatherford. All right,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 5: so again, obviously the same person. And we're going to
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 5: get back to some picture analysis here in a second.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 5: But as we like to do, let's start with his
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 5: same-day affidavit, which was, of course, like Braden's, taken on
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 5: the 22nd of November, 1963. This afternoon, about 10 minutes
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 5: after the parade, past Poitras and Main Streets, I went
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 5: to a little barbecue place off on Pacific. I do
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 5: not know the name of this place, and I went
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 5: in and had a grilled cheese sandwich with a friend
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 5: of mine, Richard Bartholomew. Now, Rob, there is a researcher,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 5: Richard Bartholomew.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 6: Is this the same guy?
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: Bartholomew's old, but he's not that old. Okay.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 5: Okay, so this Bartholomew works at the National Bank of Commerce.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 5: They had a radio going on in the cafe. Two
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 5: gentlemen that were seated at the table next to us
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 5: had the radio on, and something came on the radio
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 5: about the president being shot at. So I walked out
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 5: with this other boy, and he went on the bank,
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 5: and I walked down to the railroad tracks at Pacific
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 5: and Houston Street. I'm not as good as you with
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 5: the accents.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: You already sound drunk, just normal Joe, so just go
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: with that.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 5: Here we go.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 6: I was walking parallel.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 5: To some of the tracks, and there were quite a
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 5: few other people walking in the same direction I was going.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 5: I stopped on the east side of Houston Street, across
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 5: the street from the TSBD. I stood there for a
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 5: few minutes, and then the lady that was standing next
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 5: to me, I asked her where there was a telephone,
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 5: and she said that the only payphone that she knew
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 5: of was in the County Records Building. Now again, County
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 5: Records Building is different Then the Dell techs, right? If
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 5: you think about one, two, three, third floor, somewhere around here,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 5: the payphone and the Dell text that Brayden used.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 6: He's saying, records building.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 5: Whether that's true, I do not know. I stood there
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 5: for a few minutes. Oh, we already went there. She
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 5: said there would be a lot of phones on the
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 5: third floor of this building that I was standing in
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 5: front of. she said that she worked on the third
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 5: floor and that there was probably a phone up there
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 5: that I could use so I rode up the elevator
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 5: with this lady and got off on the third floor
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 5: with this lady and we walked to the information desk
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 5: and this lady went on back to her department to
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 5: her spot so then I there was a lady at
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 5: the information desk and I asked if I could borrow
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 5: her telephone and she said that all the lines were busy,
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 5: or something to that effect. So I stood there for
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 5: a minute, and a fellow walked up to me. He
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 5: asked me what I wanted, and he told me I
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 5: couldn't use the phone. So I walked back down to
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 5: the elevator and rode back down to the lobby. As
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 5: soon as I got to the lobby, I walked back outside,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 5: and the fellow that I had talked to about using
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 5: the phone was pointing out the window, pointing towards me,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 5: and said that I was a man that was on
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 5: the third floor. At this time, two officers walked up
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 5: and said for me to come with them. These officers
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 5: brought me to the county sheriff's office. At no time
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 5: did I see anyone leave the building, the TSPD, while
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 5: I was across the street from it. So Rob, this
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 5: description of events sounds extremely suspicious considering how similar it
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 5: is to Braden's.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 6: Would you agree?
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 4: I would.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: I would tend to concur, yes.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 5: Yes, you concur. I think he might have had the
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 5: buildings wrong in terms of the records building or the Daltex,
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 5: but whatever.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 6: You still have the third floor, right?
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 5: I don't know if there were payphones on the third
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 5: floor of the Dallas County Records building, but I'm guessing
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 5: he was talking about the Daltex. And this was taken
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 5: on the November 22nd.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I can understand how there wouldn't have
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: been any phones on like the first or second floor
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: because that was where the school book depository had been
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: warehousing some of their stuff, some of the offices of
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: the book companies, publishing companies were there. So when they
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: moved out, I'm not sure what actually went in on
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: the bottom two floors there at the Dow Techs. Who knows?
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: Of course, a lot of these garment makers were up
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: on the upper levels, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 6: Right, Zapruder included.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: And I know there was some kind of mineral or
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: mining office on the second floor, but no public payphone.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: And you'd think there would have been one, at least
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: on the first floor of the Dallas... public county records building.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's more of a publicly accessed building. So
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: you would think that there would be available pay phones
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: on the first floor of that building. Right. And he
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have to go to the third floor of that
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: building just to find a pay phone. But what do
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: I know? Right.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 5: No, I agree. It just seems suspicious, like the similarity.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 5: And I guess it's that guy Sharper who he's referring
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 5: to here that kind of pointed him out. that ended
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 5: up with him getting detained.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 6: For a period.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, that dude was snitching on everybody.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 5: I don't know this guy. I don't know that guy.
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: He ain't supposed to be here. That dude ain't supposed
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: to be here neither, but I don't know nothing. I
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: ain't seen nothing. Don't ask me about nothing. I don't
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: know nothing. Yes.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 6: So very interesting.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 5: Um, Um, let's go to an FBI document, part of
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 5: the Gemberling report, but it was taken on it. The
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 5: date is the 23rd, but it was actually transcribed on
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 5: the 22nd as in day of, as in probably when
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 5: he was still in DPD custody, custody, Larry Huba, Florida, um,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 5: 3609 Potomac, Dallas, Texas, telephone number blah blah blah, advises
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 5: that he watch the president's parade on November 22, 1963,
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 5: from a position at about Main and Poitras streets. After
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 5: the president's automobile had passed, he and his companion, Richard Bartholomew,
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 5: a teller in the National Bank of Commerce, went to
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 5: a barbecue stand located on Pacific Street, about one block east,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 5: and had lunched. While they were eating, they heard a
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 5: radio broadcast indicating that President Kennedy had been shot. Bartholomew
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 5: had to return to the bank where he worked, but he, Florer,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 5: went down to the vicinity of Elm and Houston streets
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 5: to see what had happened. When he arrived, he observed that...
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 5: What are you doing over there?
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 6: I can't see you.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 5: Make a noise here. When he arrived, he observed that
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 5: the TSBD building was completely surrounded by officers, and he
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 5: stood and watched the activity for about 10 or 15 minutes.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 5: He then decided that he had better call Saul. I'm
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 5: just kidding. He's an employer. Mr.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: R.S.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 5: Craig of the S.L. Ewing Company and let him know
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 5: he would be late returning to work.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: I had a little barbecue and some beers for lunch,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: and now I'm going to be late. I'm lost. I'm
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: looking for a payphone.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 5: So, I mean, this statement kind of is similar to
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 5: the DPD statement, but it gives a little more context.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 5: Floor stated that he asked a woman bystander, name unknown,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 5: where the nearest.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 6: Telephone was, and she said there was.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 5: One on the third floor of the building located directly
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 5: across the street from the TSBD building. She apparently worked
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 5: in this building, and he went up the elevator with.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 6: Her to the third floor.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 5: He advises on this floor there was an information desk, uh,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 5: and he asked someone for permission to use the telephone.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 5: He stated that a man apparently connected with the company
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 5: located on that floor very curtly refused his permission to
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 5: use the telephone, wanted to know what he was doing
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 5: in the building, and told him to, quote, get out,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 5: end quote. He said that this man escorted him to
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 5: the elevator, and as he left the building, he was
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 5: surrounded by police officers, apparently called.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 6: By the individual who ordered him out of the building.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 5: Flora advises that he was taken to the sheriff's office
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 5: and questioned concerning his presence and activity in the area.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 5: So there's a little disparity there.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: A little bit.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 6: A little bit towards the second half that I read there.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: But the story sounds awfully familiar.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 5: It does. So, um... You know, he was led towards
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 5: Houston and Elm. Then he was being led down Houston Street.
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 5: Three other photographers showed up. Larry Flora going late. Garage
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 5: entrance of Sheriff's Building. And let's see. Let's look at
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 5: the timeline here. So you're thinking JFK was shot about 12.30, right?
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 5: So he's already being interviewed, Larry Flora, about 35 minutes after.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 5: And he's still in the sheriff's.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 6: Office at about 1.30. Isn't that.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 5: No, wasn't Oswald arrested closer to 2.30? Or was it 1.30?
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 5: I think.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: It was about 1.45 when he was.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so he's still in the sheriff's office. That's what
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to point out here. So, they're kind of
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 5: rounding up the usual suspects. Shout out to that movie.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 5: Not saying that he was the usual suspect, but they're
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 5: rounding some people up that might have looked out of place.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: Kaiser Sose. Yes. Yes.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 5: Here we go with a little paragraph from the Radical
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 5: Right and the Murder of JFK book. A man with
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 5: dark horn-rimmed glasses, Larry Flora, was arrested, exited the county
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 5: records building across the street. So now we have the
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 5: records building, not the Daltex.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 6: Who knows?
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 5: This is a book, so take it for what you will.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 5: He told officers he was looking for a payphone and
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 5: had been on the third floor of that building.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 6: Larry Flora.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 5: was a look-alike for Lamar Hunt.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 6: I haven't heard of that one before, but you never know.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 5: Jim Braden, Braden, had to have been in touch with
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 5: David Ferry, who used that office, that of G. Ray Gill,
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 5: Carlos Marcello's attorney, which you mentioned, in the same hallway,
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 5: and the Pierre Marquette building, that house and office used
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 5: by Braden on his frequent visits to New Orleans in 1963.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 5: Abraham Zapruder's offices and manufacturer were on the fourth floor,
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 5: just above Jaffa. Gene DeMorenchild, wife of George DeMonshield, the
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 5: CIA operative. I'm not sure if I call him an operative,
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 5: but I guess that's an okay term.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: This is written by Harrison Livingston, so take it with
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: a grain of salt.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 5: Heavily connected to the local oil community and Russian exiles,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 5: designed dresses for Zapruder, who was surrounded by mob-connected people. DeMonshield,
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 5: who was close to the local CIA office head, J.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 5: Walter Moore, served the function of babysitting Oswald through his
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 5: time in Dallas after returning from the Soviet Union. So
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 5: he's kind of connecting a lot of dots that may
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 5: or may not be there. But still interesting connections that
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 5: Gene DeMorenshield designed dresses for Zapruder. That's weird.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 6: It could just be a coincidence, but still.
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 5: That's weird to me.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: It's all weird, man.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 6: You can't go in there yet.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: I'll show you in a second. Hold on.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 5: Okay, I'm not looking. Okay, now I'm looking. Okay.
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: So, you said he's a lookalike for Lamar Hunt, right?
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: All right, hold on. I found a picture of Lamar Hunt.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: And not lying. Oh, wait till you see this, Joe.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: Say hello to Lamar Hunt. Wow. Yeah.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 5: That is a dead ringer. I'm sorry to say.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: In the fuck?
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 5: Wow. Wow. And of course you have the braiding meeting with,
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 5: Brayden meeting with Hunt. It's weird.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 5: There's some skafoozery going here around. For sure.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: Check this out. So, I told you about the guy
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: that was with Braden, right? Morgan Brown?
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 5: Yes. The guy he shared a room with at the Cabana.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, so on August the 11th, 1964, less than
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: a year after the assassination, the guy he traveled to
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: Dallas with, Morgan Brown, and his wife, Josephine, were arrested
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: and charged on three felony counts, the worst one being
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: assault with intent to commit murder of a California police officer. So,
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: Morgan Brown, not a good guy. Allegedly an expert marksman.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: And check this out.
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 6: If you.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: Put some horn-rimmed glasses on this motherfucker and tell him
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: if he don't look like Larry Flores, Morgan Brown. Yeah.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I wouldn't say as much as Flora does and Brayden.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: Well, this is a younger picture of him in his teens,
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: but imagine him in his 20s with some horn-rimmed glasses.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 5: That's him in his teens?
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 5: Jesus Christ, he looks like 50.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a high school picture of Morgan Brown.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 6: And, of course, you have the California connection as well there, right?
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah. All right, you can put the PowerPoint back up.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: There, sir.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 7: This is, I believe, from the Walt Brown chronology. Elari Flora,
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 7: eating lunch in a greasy spoon. whatever that means, near
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 7: Dealey Plaza, heard over the radio that the president had
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 7: been shot, left the dining establishment, and wandered around in
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 7: Dealey Plaza, the.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 5: Exact sites he visited and garbled in the cited document.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 5: Of course, he was alleged to be drunk. Eventually, Flora,
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 5: like Brayden, asked where a telephone was and was sent
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 5: to the third floor of the County Records Building. Again,
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 5: there might be some some confusion with county records and Daltex.
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 5: There he was told they were out of order, and
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 5: when he left, and the fellow that I had talked
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 5: to about using the phone was pointing out the window,
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 5: pointed towards me, and said that I was the man
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 5: that was on the third floor. At this time, two
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 5: officers walked up and said for me to come with them.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 5: These men brought me to the county sheriff's office at
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 5: no time. Did I see anyone leaving the building? Blah, blah, blah.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 5: Given that Flores alleged that he was eating lunch blocks
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 5: away when the radio told him the shots fired and
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 5: that he then traveled a few blocks and wandered around,
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 5: it would have been highly unlikely he would have seen
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 5: anyone suspicious leave the book depository building. Beyond that, there
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 5: were cops constantly in and out of that building, so
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 5: to state that he saw no one leave is to
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 5: no guarantee. that he was not at that location for
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 5: more than perhaps 30 seconds. I don't know of Larry
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 5: Flora visually, but a number of people have identified him
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 5: in crowd photos taken while the motorcade was passing. Well,
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 5: we already showed you the pictures of Flora. This is another,
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 5: this is, I guess, one of Decker's sheriff's office reports
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 5: surrounding the assassination regarding Larry Flora Had lunch with Richard Bartholomew.
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 5: Works at National Bank Commerce. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 5: Nothing super interesting there. And let's go to some Arb
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 5: stuff here. Because they were still looking into Lawrence Huber Florer.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 5: Or I guess this is HSCA actually, but it says
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 5: date of last review, 95, which is when I thought
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 5: of Barb. Um, I responded to Judy Miller's office in
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 5: the Pentagon, the state. This is from Jack Moriarty, investigator, uh,
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 5: for the HSCA. I responded to this, uh, Judy Miller's
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 5: office in the Pentagon, the state and viewed United States
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 5: Air Force file, uh, accompanied by his secretary during my
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 5: inspection of the file's contents. Essentially, the subject's files, that
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 5: would be Larry Flohr, reveals he enlisted in the United
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 5: States Air Force in 1962 in Dallas, Texas for a
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 5: period of six years. He received an honorable discharge as
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 5: of August 1968. In Dallas, Texas, his assignment as a
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 5: member of the 136th Air Refueling Group, Texas Air National Guard.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 5: This record goes on to reflect he was born in Dallas, 1940,
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 5: lived with his mother, Gladys Fleurer, father deceased, attended local schools,
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 5: ultimately graduating from NTSU, with a bachelor's in accounting. Doesn't
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 5: seem like a super sus guy, but you never know.
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: Well, ask me this. If he's enlisting in the Air
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: Force in August of 62, what the fuck is he
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: doing in Dealey Plaza in 1963? Well... And civilian clothes.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 5: Well, it says Air National Guard, right?
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: It says he enlisted in the United States Air Force.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 5: But his assignment air national guard, which means that you're
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 5: not on duty. Like, you know, those sailors on the
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 5: Lincoln that were just dropped in Thailand after eight months.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 5: Great idea.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 6: Whoever had that one, um, you know what I mean?
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 5: So he could have been on leave. He could have
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 5: just not been active at that time. I don't know.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 6: I'm just speculating.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 5: Um, Aside from basic training, he received no special education
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 5: while assigned to Air Force Refueling Group, Texas. His service
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 5: serial number is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Married Barbara Watson,
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 5: date of birth, 44, in Wichita Falls, Texas, changing their
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 5: residence to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He was promoted
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 5: to airman third class in 1962. and Sergeant 11463. A
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 5: check of his attendance record discloses he normally pursued his
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 5: military career on weekends.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 2: Aha!
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 6: I guess Friday is a weekend, right?
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: Kind of?
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 5: No. No, not really. Although no photos exist in the file,
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 5: his medical records reveal his general health is normal, he
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 5: wears glasses... 2,200 vision without aid. Is 2,200 vision better
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 5: than 2,020? I think it's worse, right?
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it's worse with them Coke bottles they
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: had on.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 6: He has a six-inch scar.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 5: Larry Scars on the inner left arm and is 5'9,
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 5: 175 pounds with blue hair and eyes.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: Ha! blue hair.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 5: Nothing of disciplinary nature was noted so I want to
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 5: go back to the picture of him being arrested outside
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 5: the Daltex on the left hand side here and the
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 5: picture of him in I think it's Decker's office or
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 5: at least in the DPD municipal building on the right
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 5: um definitely the same dude there's no.
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: Doubt yeah.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 5: So, I don't know.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: Why would everybody think he was drunk?
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 5: Because he allegedly, like, climbed some flagpole to get, like,
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 5: a good look.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 6: At the motorcade or something.
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 5: I don't know. It's alleged he was drunk, right? It's
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 5: always alleged. But, yeah, that is the story of the
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 5: other guy aside from Braden, arrested in the Daltex, and
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 5: they have very similar stories. And Rob, I'm not quite
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 5: sure what to make of it. You can take it down.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a... There's a lot there. I don't know
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: what to make of it either. If I can get
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: this shit off there.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 5: There we go.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: But, I mean, it's a crazy story with crazy connections,
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make them.
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: You know, when it comes to... especially Jim Braden, Larry
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: Flohrer just happened to be, sounds like a dope in
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: the wrong place.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 6: At the wrong time.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 5: I believe, I was just going to say that. Wrong place,
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 5: wrong time type of thing. But how their stories kind
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 5: of match up, regardless of the buildings being possibly misstated,
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 5: are very similar. which I think is interesting. I mean,
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 5: how many people are going up to the third floor
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 5: of the Daltex building? So say you just were on
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 5: the corner or at a restaurant. Like, who goes up
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 5: to the Daltex building on the third floor just to
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 5: make a phone call to whoever, right?
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've got to imagine, there's lots of people
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: around there. The president just got shot. There's no phone booths.
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: The only buildings around there are the school book depository,
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: the Daltex, the records building, and the jail.
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 5: So people are asking for, how can I make a call?
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 5: And both of them end up on the third floor
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 5: of the Daltex. And both of them are pointed out
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 5: by the sharper guy, right? The elevator dude.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: Phones are down both times, yeah? Yeah.
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah. And they're like, this dude's not supposed to be here.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 5: This dude's not supposed to be here. But is this
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 5: much to make about nothing? Or is this, is there
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 5: something more sinister to it? I think you have moved
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 5: me a few percentage points on Brayden. I think Floor
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 5: was definitely wrong place, wrong time.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just too many connections with Brayden that are sus.
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: That make you raise an eyebrow, like. There's a lot
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: of leaps and bounds that you can make with Braden
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 2: and his connections. And is it just one horrible fucking
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: coincidence after the other with this guy? Or, you know,
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: this guy was a piece of shit, right? Mafiatized, low-life,
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: con artist type swindler who changed his name several times
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 2: to avoid, you know, the law. And just happens to
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: be in fucking Dallas, Texas on November 22nd of all places.
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: And having, you know, stayed at the Cabana where Jack
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: Ruby just happened to visit him. Having to went to
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: the HL Hunt building, same place, same day as Jack Ruby.
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: And to have all these other connections being, you know,
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 2: calls made from Gil's office by Ferry to Gene Ace
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 2: who was seeing... Larry Myers, who was meeting with Jack
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: Ruby at the cabana on the night of the 21st.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I just don't know. I mean, I
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: don't think I don't think that Braden was like a
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: long-range rifleman shooter.
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 2: You know, if anything, he's a thug, mafia, mobster type who,
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 2: you know, we don't know that he ever killed anybody,
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: but if he did, I would imagine it would be
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: like You know, with a knife or up close with
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: a pistol.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 5: With a.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: 38, yeah.
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: But this other guy, Morgan Brown, I was also reading
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: something about because their hotel room faced the Stemmons Freeway
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: and that they had a rifle in the room. This guy,
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 2: Morgan Brown, had a rifle in the room and was
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: supposed to be a shooter, like a last backup type
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: shooter in case Kennedy made it out of the Dealey
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: Plaza alive. He was supposed to shoot him as he
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: was coming up to Stemmons Freeway, which is probably a
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: hard shot, you know, with a limo going like 100
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: miles an hour, right?
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to believe on that, but it
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: is an interesting story. And just to wrap this all up, Joe,
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 2: and bring it to modern times, if you will.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 5: Modern times.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 2: Now, you and I have both been to Dealey Plaza
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: in Dallas.
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: Now, when I was there, I went over. to the
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 2: Dow techs building, uh, and had coffee. They had a
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: little coffee shop on the bottom floor of the Dow
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: techs building.
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 5: I had, I have not done that.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 6: I believe I stood on the corner, but.
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 2: They had a little coffee shop and they sold a
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: bunch of, you know, Kennedy memorabilia, t-shirts and buttons and
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 2: all this shit. Um, so as recently as last month, Joe,
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: They have shared plans about what the future of the
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: Dow Tech's building will be.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 6: As in 2026? Yeah.
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 2: Wow. So, according to candiesdirt.com, the Dow Tech's building.
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: Conversion gets a $ 16 million boost.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 4: What?
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: Downtown Dallas' transformation from a strictly business-oriented concentration of towers
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: into an actual neighborhood of historic character is proceeding apace,
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: with adaptive reuse projects in West End revving up to
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: counter the dour narratives haunting the city center. One conversion
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: just got a significant boost in the form of property-assessed
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: clean energy financing through the city and non-profit Pace Authority,
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: which backs economically sound and environmentally friendly improvements. The development
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 2: firm 3L Real Estate bought the historic Dow Tech's building
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 2: at 501 Elm Street and the adjacent 509 Elm Street
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 2: back in 2021. The 125-year-old properties located across from the
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza are listed on the
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: National Register of Historic Places. Real Estate wants to preserve
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: the seven-story building's historic character while converting the underutilized office
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: space into 120 to 140 buildings. units of multi-family apartments,
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: and over 29,000 square feet of renovated ground floor retail space.
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: So, you can imagine that, okay, they're going to have
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 2: retail on the bottom floors, and they're going to have
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 2: apartments on the above six floors. Right.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 5: Which is not uncommon these days in any fucking city
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 5: you go to. Right.
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 2: Being a part of Reactivating historic properties has always been
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: 3LRE' s focus. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 5: Some private equity firm or some shit?
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The Dow Tech's building was completed in 1902 as
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: a John Deere Plow Company's regional headquarters and warehouse. The
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 2: adjacent 509 Elm Street building was constructed around the same
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: time for the Tennyson Brothers Saddlery Company. Over the decades,
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: both properties housed a variety of commercial and office tenants
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 2: as downtown Dallas evolved. So, that is going to be
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: the future of the Dow Tech's buildings. Office to apartment conversions. Wow.
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 6: Should I buy an apartment there?
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: I was just going to ask you, would you live
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: in the Dow Text Building if given the opportunity?
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 5: 100%. That'd be pretty cool. I'd just look out the
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 5: window and envision shit.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 2: Imagine if you had a window that was facing the
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: depository at Elm Street. You wake up every morning and
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 2: just stretched and, you know, right out your window. It's
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 2: right there. Yeah. That'd be crazy.
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 6: That would be crazy.
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 5: But, I mean, yeah, we have the same type of
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 5: development shit going on in Connecticut with all these multifamily
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 5: homes and retail, and.
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 6: It's just the trend. But that would be really interesting.
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know if it would be, like,
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 5: a good start of the day to, like, wake up
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 5: and be like, well, this is when our democracy ended
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 5: type of thing.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 6: But it would be interesting.
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: It would be a good reminder to get up and
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 2: go live your life. A good memento mori apartment.
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 5: It would be cool.
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 6: I would definitely have it.
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 5: And if I wasn't there all the time, I'd Airbnb
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 5: it out.
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: And, you know, you could get naked in front of
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: the window and just, you know, put your balls on
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 2: the window and just be like, Billy Plaza! I'm Larry Flora!
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to be here, but I'm here! That
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: would be epic.
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 6: That would be pretty epic, actually.
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 5: But, yeah, man, it's kind of crazy because I think...
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 5: pretty much Brayden and Flora were released after Oswalt was
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 5: kind of brought in, right? Maybe around two-ish, right? Maybe
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 5: a little before, maybe a little after. And they were like, oh,
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 5: we got our guy. Peace.
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So there you have it, folks. Another epic episode
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 2: of the Lone Gunman podcast to be followed by next week,
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 2: Members only. And by God, there's more. There is a
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: shit ton more that we're going to get into next
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: Wednesday on this exact topic. So you don't miss it.
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: If you're not a member yet, check it out. You can,
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 2: I think, do a free trial and check it out
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 2: if you want to. If you like it, stay. If
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 2: you don't, no big deal.
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 5: We won't take a person.
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 2: Be like that. But just know you're missing out.
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: Just know you're missing out. Joey's got the damn dog
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 2: I'll grab Dino.
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 5: Ruby Hi.
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 2: Ruby Folks that's it for us for tonight thank you
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: so much for hanging with us we hope you learned
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 2: something I know we did did we know anything more
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: than we knew two hours ago yes allegedly are we
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 2: any closer to solving the case No, we're not. But yeah,
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 2: hit the like button on your way out. We'd appreciate it.
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 6: Yes, please do that.
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: Go watch some of our older episodes and spend your
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: hype points on us. Hype some of these older episodes
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: and get them out there. And yeah, we appreciate each
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: and every one of you. Be on the lookout for
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 2: a random research rambling with Rob this weekend. It's going
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 2: to be epic, right, Joe?
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: Allegedly.
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 6: I don't know what it's about.
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 2: You liar. Alright, we'll see you. Peace.
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 5: Peace, guys.
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 6: Thank you.