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SMNTY Classics: Elevated Horror and #MeToo · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Smitha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I Never told you production by
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: heart you, and today we are bringing back a classic
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: on elevated horror. And I have to say, since we
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: did this one, the conversation has continued.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Things are happening.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: People are still fighting about it, and I have seen
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: so many new movies I could add to this list
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: that I gave in this episode, so quick run down,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I would just say, blink twice the substance first, Omen, Immaculate,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Woman of the Hour, and Heretic.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: And that's just a few. Like There's been a lot,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Horror coming out and that I would think would fit
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: into this conversation. But it is interesting. Part of it
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: is because I researched this and I watch a lot
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: of horror. I get updates about this all of the time.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: But since we also just did an episode on substance
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: or will do one, depending on when you listen to this,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I thought it was appropriate to bring it back, so
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: please enjoy.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: never told you a protection of iHeartRadio, and today we're
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: going to finally be addressing our if we kind of
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: hinted at it our episode on elevated.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Horror and what it has to do with women and
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: me Too, which we kind of did very briefly in
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: two Happy Hours that were just like these quick reviews
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: on recent horror movies. But also we have done entire
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: episodes on movies that would fall into this, So we've
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: done feminist movie Fridays on Screen five, Alien, the Witch.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I would say even Women in Revenge could kind of
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: be counted in here, some of the movies we talked
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: about in those episodes, because that was a two parter,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: our Final Girl episode, our Scream Queen's episode, our episode
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: on women in Monsters, women who are monsters, and even
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: urban legends, women urban legend.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Monsters, all of this stuff.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: So this one's kind of interesting because I'm gonna I'm
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: going to break down what exactly is elevated horror, which
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: is kind of a big question and I have a
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: lot of thoughts about it, and then we're gonna run
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: through some movies that are examples of it very quickly
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: at the end, because otherwise this episode would be oh forever,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: forever long. But yes, so Maantha has always feel free
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: to jump in at any time.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I got you.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I have been watching quite a few horror movies lately,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: and I have a lot more to go because we
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: are in October. I've got my list, but I'm also
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: trying to introduce some new things, try out some new things.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Brief discussions around violence, domestic violence, sexual assault, child endangerment,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: child abuse, and murder in this that sounds really bad.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: We're not going to get into indubt into any of that,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: but I just wanted to put it out there because
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: we are talking about horror movies where that comes up
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: quite often. All right, So, elevated horror, what exactly is it?
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: That is hotly contested and very very divisive. The general
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: consensus seems to be that it's essentially a brand of
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: horror that leans more into being emotionally upsetting, as opposed
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: to things like gore jump scares. I might have set you,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean at all that there are no
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: gore and jumps.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: Our feminist movie for this month was it elevated horror?
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: Because I was upset Annie.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: It was?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: In a minute, we should break down our own definitions
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: of what it is. I would qualify it as elevated horror.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look forward to that episode. I was upset,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: she was quite upset, and it was fair. It was fair. Okay.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So some people take issue with the quote elitism of
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the term elevated horror and how it implies that horror
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: needed to be elevated. Basically, that the term is pretentious
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: and is you know, saying a fun slasher movie needs
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: to be elevated it's not very good, or that horror
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: itself it's a trashy.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Genre, so this is like good horror.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Many argue it's an unnecessary term or subgenre, that there's
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: still horror movies at the core, like why do we
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: need this term, and essentially that maybe it's a way
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: for people who are embarrassed or ashamed to admit they
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: like horror movies to say they like horror movies even
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: though elevated horror movies that they're talking about are still
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: horror movies, so like being like, I don't like horror,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I like elevated horror, but it's still horror essentially. Some
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: say it's basically just a more pretentious term for psychological horror,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: art horror, or social horror. For instance, horror movies around
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: race like get Out, which was classified as Best Musical
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: or Comedy at the seventy fifth Golden Global Wards. To
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: illustrate a point that we're going to mat later, but
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: essentially like, Okay, I'm gonna break this down in a minute,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: but it sounds like we're having a lot of discussion
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: around what these these movies actually are. Others argue that
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: while it's silly, this term is silly, it's useful for
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: uplifting a genre that for so long has been looked
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: down upon. All right, so this is kind of stream
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: of consciousness. But here is my thought about this whole thing. Okay,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: all right, So I am somewhere in the middle because
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I love a good bad horror movie, which I think
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: is a thing that exists, and I see nothing wrong
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: with that. Like, I don't think that's a guilty pleasure.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I don't think like that means it's not worthy of watching.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I think if you want a good bad horror movie,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: you can find a good, good.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Bad horror movie. I like a slasher.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I think if I had to define elevated horror, which
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: I heard for the first time in Screen five, actually
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I hadn't heard it before. Then they have a whole
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: discussion about it at the beginning of that movie. I
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: would agree that the term can sound pretty snobby. I
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: don't think psychological horror quite captures what I thought elevated
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: horror is. Social horror is closer, though that's still not
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: quite right. Horror, as I have said a million times,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: reflects our societal fears, sometimes reinforce them, sometimes critiquing them,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: sometimes doing all of those things. So when I think
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: of elevated horror, in my mind, it feels more like
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: an intentional critique. Because sometimes horror movies make they have
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: these messaging in them that I'm not sure they meant.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: To have, you know what I mean.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: But sometimes it's very intentional and that can work out,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: and sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes it feels like
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: way too blunt or like in your face heavy handed.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: But so.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Going on that definition, something like the original Scream could
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: be in the mix, because I guess self aware is
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: also a term wild get thrown in there. But they
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: kind of knew like what these messages were and.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Were commenting on them.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I can see how that feels like, you know,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: you're still passing judgment on other horror movies, and also
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: you know, interpretations and messaging often are unintentional and or
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: like you can't really predict always what the audience is
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: going to take away from something.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Intent is hard to judge sometimes, But.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: You know a lot of people said, like, can we
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: not just say some movies are better than others, that
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: some movies pull it off better, but okay.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: For our purposes.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: In this episode, it is a movie that is using
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: horror to comment pretty directly on a social issue. I
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: also have personally never felt elevated horror meant that other
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: horror movies suck or are not worthwhile. But I've also
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: grown up like one watching horror movies all the time.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I think the time I grew up, there was a
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: lot of good horror movies or horror movies that people
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: liked a lot. So I never got the impression that
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of people seem to get I'm gonna talk
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: about in a minute, that they had been judge for
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: like any horror movies. I never really got that. I
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: also grew up around a lot of sci fi movies
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: and fantasy movies that had similar terminology like you hear
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: you know HEADI or cerebral sci fi, high fantasy. You
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: can make all these same arguments we're making right now
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: about that. I just assumed those kinds of things meant
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: that you paid more attention to them, like you needed
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: to pay more attention to them because there was some
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: message going on, which, yes, isn't always good or isn't
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: always done well and can fail at its message. So
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: it doesn't mean it's better. I guess that's what I'm
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: trying to say. So this is a very complicated thing, obviously. Also,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: entertainment sometimes gets a popular interpretation. Yes, that might not
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: have been intended. We've talked about a lot of those
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: movies before, and yeah, a lot of stuff I read
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: when I was researching this did feel like the people
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: who were writing it felt slighted for liking horror, and
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: this term elevated horror just annoyed them, especially people who
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: prefer slashers, Like they were like, are you saying slashers.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not good?
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I prefer them, which I would say is slasher could
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: be an elevated horror. But you know, one of the
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: theories about how this term came to be is that
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: it was to counter an earlier rise and ultra gory
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: slasher slash horror movies.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: So it was like a way of saying, it's not
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: that thing.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: It's not this really gory slasher torture porn sometimes as
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: it's called. Another similar theory suggests that after a real
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: slump in the quality of horror movies in the early
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: two thousands, the genre needed a rebranding. So this was
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: their rebranding. And I get the feelings of hurt people
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: who've been here so long, watching horror for so long
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: and have loved this genre, and now they're hearing this
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: term and they are like.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: You're basically calling everything I like like a less man.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I get that.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: It also dismissed the fact that whatever you call it,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: elevated horror is not now A bit more on that later.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: As someone who has acted in a lot of horror movies,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: it was frequently pitched to me. Horror was frequently pitched
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: to me as a subpar genre that was easier to
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: get distribution for you. So I do think this has changed,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: especially now, I feel like we're I think I said this,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: We're living in a glut of horror movies, like so
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: many horror movies, and people are excited to see them.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: But when when I was acting in them.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Everybody in almost everybody felt like I would rather be
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: doing any other genre. But this is the easiest genre
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: to get made and to get distributed. As I said,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: The Witch is often credited with really launching the term
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: elevated horror, though movies much older than that, even more
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: recently older than that, if that makes sense, are included
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: in the subgenre.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: It is mocked quite a bit in Screen five, which
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: funnily enough, I would.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Call an.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: But if all this is confusing you, I think there's
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: a lot of it's just a lot of opinions about it.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Indie Wire has a really good thread of people debating
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: the term, and I really recommend it because I think
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of viewpoints that were showcased, so
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: it wasn't just one sided. There was a lot of
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a useful term. I don't like it.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I hate it, and here's why. Or no,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I like it and here's why. So I recommend it
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: if you want to learn more. And yeah, horror movies
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: are popular. They are experiencing a surge of popularity right now.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: They have recently swept up a bunch of awards. They
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: make big money movies like Paranormal Activity, started a whole franchise,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: solidified a whole company and on a tiny budget, And
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: as we've discussed before, they've seen a steady and increasing
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: popularity amongst women in marginalized folks pretty much since they've
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: been around. Still, the critique that they have historically not
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: been respected is a fair one. To this day, I
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: think only six horror movies have been nominated for Best Picture,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: though that does depend on what do you classify as
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: a horror movie. There are similar numbers around fantasy and
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: sci fi. People looking into the matter also argue that
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: what is successful influences what is made, meaning we are
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: living in a glut of horror right now because they
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: have been successful, so they are getting made. But on
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: top of that, many fine solace in horror when living
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: in horrific times. And in fact, I just saw an
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: article about this, which is probably because Google watches everything
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: you do, but it was like, oh, you would want
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: to read this article. According to the Horror Report, in
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: two thousand, around two hundred horror films were produced, but
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: by twenty sixteen this number had risen to more than
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: one thousand. They're getting more well known actors, writers, directors, etc.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: COVID gave way to what some call lockdown horror. I
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: think the host, which I do love, as discussed in
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: previous episodes, during times of strife like a global pandemic,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: more people turn to horror than might would normally.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: For the catharsis and emotional release that can offer. Popular
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: shows like Stranger Things have introduced people to the genre
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: while also playing homage to it. Here's the quote from
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: horror legend West Craven. Horror films don't create fear, they
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: release it, So I think it makes sense. Like right now,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: there are so many getting made, and we're seeing a
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: wider variety of.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: What's getting made. I do think it's interesting.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I get.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: This when people say elevated horror, what they really mean
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: is stories we haven't seen before, and a lot of
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: it has to do with women in marginalized people, which
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I think is pretty telling. But anyway, yes, we are
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: seeing a lot when it comes to elevated horror, whatever
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: you want to call it, of movies that grapple directly
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: with issues specific to women, something that took off kind
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: of after around the time of Me Too. But again,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: this isn't new. This is kind of like a new
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: wave of something I feel like has been here forever.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: But anyway, in this new wave, what we're seeing a
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: lot of things around in these movies and women is trauma,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: so much trauma. We are seeing a lot of things
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: that you could relate to me to like sexual assault, gaslighting,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: not being believed, which again is in all kinds of
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: horror movies, domestic violence, pregnancy and motherhood, a loss of child,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: and mental health. And I would say, uh, based on
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of movies I've watched recently, some kind of
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: substance abuse and then also like men trying to control
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: women into being back in like old times.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Like men trying to control women. I guess ultimately.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: That's just what I have seen, and it was something
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: that as someone who watches a lot of horror movies,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I've kind of been like, huh, A lot of these
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: movies are talking about this stuff right now, which I
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: find interesting, And we have covered it in full episodes.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: We have covered, as we said, Scream five, which has
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: this whole conversation on elevated horror, and it's very clear
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: that the killer on the phone does.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Not like elevated horror.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: The term and or otherwise, But you can check that
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: out if you want to learn more.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I think the.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Witch's it's a good example of this and that they
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: are they're talking about witches, but they're also talking about
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: sexuality and a young girl coming into her sexuality and
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: being called a witch and what that means and how
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: it turns you away, it turns you towards the devil
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: and butter or whatever it is, which I mean so
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: many witch movies are ultimately about that, about being outcast
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: from society and what does that make you and what
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: do you do when you're outcasts? And usually a lot
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: of sisterhood is involved.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: A lot of sisterhood and betrayal, and usually one.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Man yes uh yeah, but not you know, not always
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: as their sister. There wasn't in this one, that's for sure. Well,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: I guess that at the end there was. There was
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: The Love Witch, which I really recommend, which has a
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: whole thing about sexuality.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: It's got to hold like period.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Vibe or she uses her tampons and spells and stuff.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: So I recommend that one.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: We talked about fresh in the whole episode, which has
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to do with modern day dating and consumption culture. When
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: it comes to dating We talked about She Will, which
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: is about using and abusing women, for which I would
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: say is also a huge one. This is a big
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: theme I've seen lately in my horror movies.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I think two I watched yesterday, Like.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: That definitely follows real life.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: It's true, it's true what.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: Aronofsky and Polanski they do.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Th mm hmmm, yeah, I mean it's it's a big theme,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: and a lot that I've seen lately is that and
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: kind of the trauma that falls out from it and
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: dealing with that trauma. We talked about men and my
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: quick happy hours and how that's all about like blaming women,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: which I've also seen quite a bit of. And then
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: X and Pearl, which are you know, sequel, prequel original.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you might to say it, but
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: some of the.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Things I didn't talk about in that I went to
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: go see it a second time. I went to go
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: see Pearl a second time recently because I just had
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: a like after you and I was like, you.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Know what, I want to go again.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Some of the things I didn't talk about in there
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: was that movie has kind of got a lot of
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: messaging around, like the nostalgia of remembering an older time
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: and how it was better, but this movie does not
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: It's like, no, women were never actually like that. You'd
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: know that, right, They actually weren't.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Super happy with this day I went taking care of
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: your family and not having opportunities.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: There's this whole idea of.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Having to give up being special, having to give up
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: your dreams and settle, which we've also talked about before.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: But then something else is jealousy with other women. She
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: kind of touched on, but Pearl was real jealous of
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: other women who could get out in her mind, who
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: escaped this sort of settling that she did not want
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, so those are movies we talked about.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: One we haven't talked about but we definitely could and
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: should is Midsommar.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: Did we not do an episode on that?
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: We have not done an episode on Midsummar? Yeah?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: No, No, I think we've just talked about it a lot,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: you and me personally.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: Wow, my head thought we had already done this whole episode.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, No, I'm pretty sure.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I mean maybe we have, and listeners will write in
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: I'll be like, oh goodness, me, who knows. But one
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: of the things I find really interesting about midsommar is
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: how I have been in a group of friends who
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: have seen it, and the divide will.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Fall amongst the men and women in the.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Group of whether or not Florence Hugh's character was being
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: gas lit or whether or not the boyfriend was the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: one that was being wronged.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: And I always find it quite fascinating.
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: That's not even a conversation on my mind, I know, right,
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: So if you haven't seen it, Like the most brief
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: explanation is, like Florence Who's character, Danny, has a huge tragedy.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: In the beginning, She's in this relationship with this guy
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: and his friend group who is not great, is telling
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: him he needs to break up with her. He doesn't
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: want to do it now she's got this tragedy, so
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I guess he feels compelled to stay with her. But
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: she feels in her mind like she's always asking too
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: much of him, and so ultimately she finds out he
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: was going to Sweden with this group. She wants to go.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: He never asked everybody. He's like, no, no, no, you can come.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: He definite. He never tells her she can't come or
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: he doesn't want her to go.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: So they go together. Things happen, it's not good. She
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: kind of finds this sort of happiness though, but it
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: is very much he is. Like when I watch it,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, this is a gaslighting one oh one.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: This guy and his friends mostly are just making her
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: feel like she's being ridiculous or too much. She feels
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: like she has to hide her grief all the time.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: There's like five scenes in the movie where she goes
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: to hide so she can like cry or can make
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: herself feel better, which I get, like, if it's a
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: thing where you don't want to cry on people, I understand,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: But it's not that so much as she doesn't feel
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: like she can because she feels like he'll leave her.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: And there's a pretty explosive deleted scene where he's like
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I cannot you were too much to deal with and
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: all the stuff. And I felt like when I watched it,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: like I said, gaslighting one on one, he was very
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: much doing the bare minimum as somebody in a relationship
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: and making her feel bad that he was.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Doing the bare minimum.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: But I have talked to so many of my dude
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: friends who were like, oh, I can't stand her, Like
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: she's always asking for stuff and she just would.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Not leave him alone. And just like, I don't know what.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think you were reading. I don't think you're
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: picking up the right message.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: Year because I need to talk to them.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Well, it was interesting because I just like you said,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: it never occurred to me, like I was just like, yes,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: this is not a good boyfriend, this is gaslighting.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: But it's got a lot going on when it comes
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: to that, and I think we should if we have
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: not done an episode on it, we should come back
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: and talk about it, because I have a lot of
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: things to say.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Okay. And then the other lamb is one have you
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: ever seen this one?
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: No, that is a new one. I don't know if
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: I've ever heard of it.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I feel like I'm just giving you a
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: bunch of recommendations.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I no longer trust you, so that's fair. I
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: always look them up, listeners, look them up. Don't just
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: take my word.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: If you can't tell, we're.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Look it up. I don't want to send you stray.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: The other lamb is often called, like you know, another
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: version of midsommar. It involves a cult of this guy.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: It's run by this guy who looks like Jesus. Essentially,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: he's got all these young women, young girls in this cult,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: and when one of the women or young girls gets
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: the period, gets their period, it's like, oh, now you
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: have to have sex with this cult eater.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Here's a big preference for youth.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: It's got a lot of messaging around that, which is
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: also present in a lot of these and just this
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: idea of all these women being expendable to him and
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: something he can just control and use and throw away
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: and hurt and the women kind of coming together to
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: combat that. You're next, which I'm just gonna say, ain't
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: your normal final girl. There's a lot there's been a
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: lot of movies about kind of flipping the final girl storyline.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: This is a big one, The bab A Duke, which
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I when I saw it even I was like wow,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: because I hadn't seen a portrayal of motherhood like that,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: because it's basically kind of like, you know, depression and
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: grief and mental health are not easy, They don't really
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: go away.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Healing is not an easy.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Thing, and motherhood isn't always pretty and you don't always
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: really like your child, which is something you don't see
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: very often, especially not in that way where it wasn't
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: like she was out to I don't know. I feel
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: like when you see that the child is evil or something,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: or either she's possessed, but in this case, it was
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: just it wasn't that, which was something that was.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Pretty new to me.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I know there's a lot we could talk about with
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: the Babaduk as well, but I'm trying to keep this
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: very brief. So there's this movie that came out I
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: think it won a bunch of words called You Won't
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Be Alone, and in it, one of the main character
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: is abducted by a witch as a child and becomes
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: a shape shifter, and it has a really interesting storyline
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: about her kind of re entering the world and realizing
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: that it's easier to be a man. Because this is
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: set in like the eighteen hundreds or maybe earlier. It's
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: not modern day at.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: All, so kind of her.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Because she wasn't raised in the world, right, so she
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: injures it and is like, why is it better to
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: be a man? But she can shape shift into all
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: these people and it's kind of a body horror film,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: so it's got some pretty gruesome shape shifting scenes. But
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I thought that was interesting. Ready or not, which we
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: have talked about which I felt like the message was
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: don't get married or either. If there's money involved, they're
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: gonna choose the money. They're not gonna choose you. You'll
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: love Pells in comparison to his riches and security and
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: his family's riches and security. Resurrection, this was the movie
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I was trying to remember when we did those happy hours.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: This one just came out. It's pretty it's pretty dark.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of trauma and that one a lot
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: of messaging around how no one believes you or are either.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: You finally confide in somebody and they don't know what
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: to do with it and they're like, okay, can I
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: leave now? And jealous men who can't handle you having
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: anyone else in your life and doing terrible things because
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: The actually this was both Pearl and Resurrection have like
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: nine minute monologues from the main actors that are very,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: very impressive. And then I just saw Barbarian, which is
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: also pretty disturbing. But it's got a whole thing about mothers,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: oh my goodness, and monsters created by men and the
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: monstrous men that created them and then facing those monsters.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: It's got a real shit.
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: It's just spoil me on Barbarians Mothers, I know anything
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: about mothers.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: In there, I honestly I do not think I did,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: because the movie takes a real turn.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: It takes a real turn.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: And then, just briefly, as I said, this is not new,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: and a lot of these movies, you can argue with
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: me what you would put them in this mysterious category
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: that may or may not exist of elevated horror, because
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I do think for a lot of horror movies you
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: could find some societal messaging and them. I just think
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: there's kind of a difference in the intentionality of it.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: But you can fight with me that with that as well.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: But it is not new at all. I think this
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: is just kind of a current wave that we're seeing.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I just watched, for instance, Martyrs, which is a super
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: disturbing film about punishing women, torturing them until they become martyrs.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: So that you can see what's on the other side,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: if there's anything on the other side.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Rosemary's Baby, yes, oof, because that has.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Plan scheme involved, But it is like a whole thing
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: about like or like before around the time of Roe v.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Wade and being gas lit and having control over your
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: body marital rape. Alien, which we talked about, has the
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: whole messaging around abortion and body autonomy and uh yeah,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: just pregnancy in general. And then you know, we're not
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: really going into this now, even though I'd love to
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: come back to it. But things like that Ring in
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: the Grudge I have a lot about because those were
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: coming out, you know, after the atomic bombs were dropped
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: in Japan, and it was this kind of fear of like,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: oh did this change are we? Is this impacting our bodies?
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: And why is going to happen? Like when we have children,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen? And I read a pretty interesting
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: exactly exactly. I did just watch Satoko versus Kayoko, and
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: you got some updates about that.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I had a good time.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I would not put an elevated orror, but I had
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: a good time.
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: That's the thing.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: It's like, it can you can have fun with these movies.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be like anyway. And also it's
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: just to say this is not unique to the horror genre.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I think when I was reading about this, I was like,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I've heard this argument play out in.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Pretty much every genre of not every genre, So I don't.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think this conversation is new, but I do
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: think that there is something something happening that feels like
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: right now that we're really wanting to see these movies.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: And we've we've had other periods of it before, but
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: right now, to me, it feels like there's just a
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: lot of them coming out and that they're pretty popular.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's just those are some of my thoughts.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I know I did like a rapid fire through those
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: movies at the end. But hopefully some of you are
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: listening you're like, oh, maybe I'll check that one out.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'll check that one out.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: But yes, as Samantha said, look it up because I
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: don't want to beat you astray. Well you'll hear more
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: of that beef soon.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Our upcoming feminist movie Friday.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: But in the meantime, as always, listeners, if you had
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: any thoughts on this, if you have any suggestions, oh
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: my gosh, we are Samantha and I are in full swing,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: so please yes, let us no. You can email us
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: at seven of them mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot carm.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks is always to our superducer Christina.
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: We are not beefing love you, Christina.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm not beefing with Christina, are you? But you're
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: just whatever?
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: And thanks to you for listening stuff Nerve told you
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: the protection of iHeartRadio.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can check out the
• 32:37
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• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Radio app, Apple podcast or regular listen to your favorite shows.