Latest / Connect Call / EP18- The Hidden Difference: Choosing a Coach or a Therapist with Joelene Knight

Transcript

EP18- The Hidden Difference: Choosing a Coach or a Therapist with Joelene Knight · Connect Call

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, you've reached the voicemail of Hannah Brett with Connect Call, just leave a message and I'll get back to you soon as I can.
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: One for more options.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Hannah.
0:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to thank you again for helping us find the right people and the right providers to help getting my son on the right facility.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: With the right care and now he's doing some extended and treatment and they're looking at maybe possibly returning to school.
0:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just feel like I've done therapy and I've done some family therapy, but I'm kind of still making just still doing the same things I always do and I am hitting a wall every time and I am and I guess what I've learned is how to ask for help but I want to ask for help and do something different and I don't know what different is so I was hoping that maybe you could give me a callback and give me some ideas.
0:53
[SPEAKER_00]: somebody just maybe helping me with the day-to-day.
0:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but you can just call me that that a great.
1:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, this is Hannah Brett with another episode of Can That Call Where I Often Say.
1:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm afraid to say this in front of you, actually, but I'm gonna say it.
1:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So I needed a tagline, Joeline.
1:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So here's my tagline.
1:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I let you say, I don't have a clinical background, but I do have a PhD for picking up for the phone's wait, tap, wow.
1:19
[SPEAKER_02]: See ya, I'm already so nervous for you.
1:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have a clinical background, but I do have a PhD for picking up the phones for families in crisis.
1:29
[SPEAKER_02]: didn't do because it really is what I do.
1:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is what you do because like I was saying like my imposter syndrome and then we're going to introduce the guest everybody, but my imposter syndrome told me for so long that I wasn't an expert because I didn't have letters behind my name and I remember I had a coach that I worked with.
1:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, a different type of coach who was like a story coach and she said, actually, you are an expert, very few people have the honor of being on the other end of the phone for these families and doing the work that you do, you know, and so I thought to myself.
2:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I do have a Ph.D. for me.
2:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I am an expert, and I am an expert in picking up the phone and loving people to they love themselves.
2:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, this is Hannah Brett, another episode of Connect Call this I'm I'm I gotta say and I'm sorry to my other guests, but I'm going to say it.
2:28
[SPEAKER_02]: This is
2:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Joly Knight, someone that I first have to say, if I could have, I beg basically to do this podcast with me from the beginning it was you and it was Kelly I really wanted to do it with you guys, but you're both so busy so I'm just grateful that she is a guest.
2:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to talk a little bit about our bio and then I'm going to explain my love for her.
2:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But Joly Knight brings over 34 years of experience in behavioral health addiction and recovery fields.
3:01
[SPEAKER_02]: She has helped executive and clinical leadership roles at promises and ARC and Los Angeles before co-founding grace recovery in 2018.
3:16
[SPEAKER_02]: like when you're in the business of the industry of helping people, there are people, and I don't mean to age you.
3:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You were just like, you can age me.
3:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You're against or like, Jo Lene is on the front lines from the beginning, and she was in Los Angeles, and she's done so much amazing work in helping so many people find recovery, find just becoming their best selves,
3:46
[SPEAKER_02]: How many years have I worked with you in the field at a 10 9 9 9
3:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, Jolene, on this show, I tell people that I am a connector and I'm a collector of sorts and I do believe that that I meet people and sometimes it's just a electric like I just know Wow, they're, they're special and I know that's how you felt when you met me, but when I met you immediately I felt two things one we were robbed of time and two that like you were such a force.
4:23
[SPEAKER_02]: like I knew like this was your path in you just you wanted your loved ones to be in front of joling and joling to be a part of anything that she could help to help them.
4:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
4:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm really just grateful that you're on the show and I love you so much.
4:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you.
4:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me.
4:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
4:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and we won't even talk about Jolene, um, I won't even get into, well, that's another show for another time, but Jolene has a really, really fun past too.
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: She auditioned to be a fly girl.
4:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure dead.
5:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm living color.
5:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I sure dead.
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
5:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Many tell family coach.
5:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a family coach.
5:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So the reason why I wanted to bring Jolene on the show today is, and this is a really good question, you know, I think,
5:15
[SPEAKER_02]: The reason, again, why do this show is to let people know that there isn't one size for all, there isn't one process, one road to get to your best self, right, and I, I have tried everything, I think, and so I want to like show everybody stuff I've tried and that all the all the resources that are out there and I don't want to naysay anything and say that's bad and this is good, right.
5:39
[SPEAKER_02]: what I do try to highlight are obviously the good providers and some of the people maybe to stay away from in programs and things like that.
5:48
[SPEAKER_02]: But something I've come across a lot in the work that we do is should I get a therapist or should I have like a life coach or parent coach or family coach?
6:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll say it.
6:02
[SPEAKER_02]: When I first started hearing the word coach, I
6:06
[SPEAKER_02]: was like, oh, that.
6:07
[SPEAKER_02]: This is for people who like, you know, because I'm also like, again, I've said this on the show before this industry, like, any other industry, there's a lot of good people.
6:17
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of bad people, but it was just I, I didn't, I just, like, I didn't know enough and understand the coach piece and know how to find the right coach and what.
6:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I'm having you on the show.
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But what I have learned is, and we will talk about this is, you know, I have a coach and a therapist now for myself.
6:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But so you don't have to pick one or the other.
6:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But can you just like start from the beginning, like if somebody's asking, like, what is traditionally a coach and compared to a therapist?
6:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
6:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I can speak for myself.
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of different
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: aspects of life coaching and parent coaching and spiritual coaching.
7:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
7:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And my, my different cheating factor between a parent coach, a family coach, a life coach, and a therapist is a
7:20
[SPEAKER_01]: for issues that families are facing, whether they have an adult child that has mental health issues or substance use disorder or an adolescent, or whether it's a spouse who's navigating the same issues with their spouse.
7:37
[SPEAKER_01]: is it's, it's real time.
7:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And can I interrupt and explain that to the listeners and viewers?
7:42
[SPEAKER_02]: When we say real time, and I don't know if people are out there listening and watching, but I know I felt this with my therapist.
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I see my therapist, you know, once every two weeks, whatever for that hour.
7:52
[SPEAKER_02]: right?
7:53
[SPEAKER_02]: She's got great boundaries.
7:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all we do.
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: There have been many times, right?
7:57
[SPEAKER_02]: We're all being a conversation with my dad or with someone in real time and say, how should I draft this text or how can I do this differently?
8:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have to wait to the next time I see my therapist to ask.
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think what you're touching on, which I love and tell me from wrong is when you have a coach, you're able to utilize that in real time and
8:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think, you know, it's I think the therapeutic and clinical process is such an important piece especially with families and parents because that work is required to kind of unpack some of the
8:48
[SPEAKER_01]: but that's not me.
8:52
[SPEAKER_01]: My job and my role and I think what I find is really important is being able to look at what's happening in the moment.
9:01
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't about me getting into
9:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, past experiences of their own childhood and how that impacts them, this is, you know, your kid is, you know, trashing the house right now.
9:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're actively using you feel back into a corner, the fear is paralyzing you can't breathe and you don't know what to do in that moment.
9:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
9:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's
9:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, case managers and therapists and, you know, there's often times treatment, we're going to do an episode on what case management is too as well.
9:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, lovely.
9:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
9:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but therapists and treatment providers and there's so many people involved.
9:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
9:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I've discovered is a lot of times when families come to me, um, they're being referred by their therapist.
9:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the bulk of.
9:59
[SPEAKER_01]: which is great.
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The clients that I get to work with is, and a lot of times it's therapists frustration because they're spending so much time trying to mitigate the anxiety of the families that they're not able to do the work that they are intended to do right with their client.
10:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, those referrals when they come to me, it's a beautiful collaborative experience because it really allows me as a parent coach or a family coach or whatever kind of coach you want to call me to be able to just work with the family and by doing so, it provides the clinical team, the opportunity to work with their client.
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: in a really meaningful way that doesn't require putting out a bunch of fires right is the family's anxiety.
10:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And we will talk on this I think and I thought this too in the beginning a lot of times young adults or even adults or you know people get scared of the word therapist and so coach wasn't as scary and so people may go in that direction first but in my experience and yours as well I would think
11:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone can do what they want, but I think the ideal situation with people a lot of times and we'll get you there is ideally, and this isn't for everybody, but ideally is that that individual has their clinical needs met by their therapist, but then also is working with a coach and a green flag and knowing that you're working with the right people is they want to collaborate and not create.
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: you want to say something, I feel like.
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was just thinking about it because the other piece of it is sometimes I'll get families that they have done the work.
11:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a good point term, therapy, and they need something different, and it's not even so much about meeting something different as much as it is a continuation of, okay, they unpacked all the bullshit that they needed to unpack, right?
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: and now they need to put it into practical application.
12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really the way that I view coaching.
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's practical application.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just this theory, will you have to let go?
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Or the catchphrases?
12:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
12:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You're enabling, and you have to have boundaries.
12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, this is the practical application.
12:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Where it's like, I work.
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Have a good day, yeah.
12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of yourself, okay?
12:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, be kind to yourself.
12:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Be well.
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: See you next week.
12:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, be well.
12:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I often like to do movie references, as you know, and so what I think of a coach is, do you have to the movie Roxanne?
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I need you to tell me what, like, who you see me as in a coach, but in a movie that I actually know what it is.
12:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Julie, I think so highly of you.
12:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like Alpatrino.
12:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you are the, Jolyn's the goat by the way for people who don't know.
13:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, she has a point of following, but Jolene has a way.
13:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You do like you say jump and we all say how high, but um, but I let me think I have to think about that.
13:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're circle back to it, but Jolene is that person when you speak.
13:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like in Braveheart in the background music's going.
13:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
13:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
13:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
13:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that.
13:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
13:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're right.
13:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the truth's going.
13:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you.
13:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to marry you.
13:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I always have God.
13:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you.
13:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So here's also what I want to touch on with the coaching and the therapist and all that.
13:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a little biased.
13:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say right out the gate because I've worked with a lot of quote-unquote people that say their parent coaches, okay?
13:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And Naseir's out there, I'll, you know, I'll 28 of you that are out there listening.
13:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm kidding.
13:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I really am going to get this following.
13:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Please subscribe everybody and download.
14:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: How do I say this?
14:06
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people, unfortunately, it's not, I feel like they think, okay, now that, I just both say it.
14:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are you trying to be a political drug?
14:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't ask you this question in the beginning and this is what's going to show you.
14:20
[SPEAKER_02]: You're skin in the game.
14:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe everybody I talked to and work in this field and the good providers.
14:27
[SPEAKER_02]: They're here for a reason and they've kind of,
14:30
[SPEAKER_02]: either personally been through the trenches or have watched the trenches or have worked in the trenches.
14:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to get back and I will circle back to why you got into this.
14:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But for me, a parent coach and somebody that I will look to especially in this behavioral health piece and walking through this, it is important to me that that person has worked either in treatment or has experienced actually
14:54
[SPEAKER_02]: In addiction and mental health, you don't need all the credentials, but what I, you know, because as someone who's also a helper, you don't want to be having to not only educate the family, but educating the coach, right?
15:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I feel that, you know, I've come up with
15:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, parent coach is sometimes who just really don't even understand what we're dealing with, you know, or still use the word trouble teen or, you know, we have a spirited child, you know, and I'm just like, so maybe those are people I wouldn't work with with all do respect.
15:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But to get back to you and why I and just can you just quickly tell me because we didn't talk about this in the beginning.
15:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this, this part of my career or journey or whatever was not on my being go card, I started working in treatment in 1991 and treatment was very different at that time.
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen.
16:04
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, the good, the bad and the ugly of it over three decades.
16:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, and I made a decision, you know, to continue down that path because it was meaningful and it was important, right?
16:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it became a little bit unrecognizable.
16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, once I think,
16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my TED talk ramp, but I think once it became something that had so much monetary gain attached to it, right, is when you started to see, you know, the venture capitalists and the big investment firms coming in and and buying up, you know, the small mom and pop treatment programs where there was a time, you know, certainly in the 90s and, you know, early 2000s where there wasn't.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: a treatment center on every corner and families weren't left to navigate who the good players were, who the bad players were.
17:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, in that process, I was talking to families constantly in a treatment setting.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They were oftentimes I was that first, you know, answer of, you know, my loved one is, you know, running the streets.
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: They have an opioid addiction.
17:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, we can't name names and we won't, but Jolyne has worked with some major heavy hitters.
17:28
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, she has a lot of experience.
17:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Canton, you?
17:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was hearing these families that were in such extraordinary distress, right?
17:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And it didn't really matter what program I worked for.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: There was always the missing piece of the family component for kind of the standard as you go to a family weekend, two or three days and you do intensives.
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And then your loved one is going to come home or return back to where they live.
18:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And that family weekend is trying to kind of undo, you know, for an adult, 30, 40, sometimes 50 years of experience of, you know, the intertwined components of that dynamic, right?
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And it started out very, how I got here in 2022, I made a decision to step away from working
18:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I had always had a very small, you know, group of clients and families that had been referred to me through the years and it really one of those.
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, hey, can you work with the wife of a guy that I've gotten my sober living type of thing?
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just learned a long time ago, say yes, you never know where you're supposed to be.
18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there would be a series of saying yes.
19:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kept a really small practice of people that I worked with that in some way or another were impacted by mental health or substance use disorders.
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: within their family circle, be it a dad or a spouse.
19:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And so in 2022, when I made the decision to step out of working in treatment, you know, not to sound like hokey, but you know, I was really asking for like, the guidance from the spirit world or the universe to present to me where I'm supposed to be next.
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, yes, I've been in this industry for a long time theoretically.
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I call myself semi-retired.
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But what kept showing up was,
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I've got a really good friend that I grew up with and their husband is in treatment and they're getting ready, you know, to come home and the wife doesn't know what to do.
19:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it was, you know, we have a, you know, mom and dad of an adult child that, you know, is really struggling or an adolescent that was, you know, had all of the diagnosis says, oppositional defines just sort of ADHD, they're all in these things.
20:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And the families were just left with but how do we do day to day life?
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: how do we navigate in this and what started to come to fruition was the right people were being presented to me.
20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I realized was these were families that had been
20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: fed so many opinions, and so many rigid hard lines, most of which had multiple treatment experiences with their loved one.
20:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, they were being told, you know, if you let them come home, you're signing their deaths certificate, or you have no boundaries, and you have to have boundaries, or you're a match, or read this book.
21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You're read this book, you're a codependent.
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:09
[SPEAKER_01]: words got thrown around so much and really what I came to realize is you know you never stop being a parent you never stop whether your kid is you know an adolescent or an adult
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: the job description is changing.
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's being written generally by somebody who is either, you know, suffering themselves or their adolescents and their brain is still under construction, right?
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And that really what they needed was to be asked how uncomfortable are you willing to be?
21:50
[SPEAKER_01]: right how uncomfortable are you willing to be right and if they were not willing to be uncomfortable that had to be okay for them right because at the end of the day they're the ones that have to put their heads down at night and they're the ones that have to be willing to follow those things through um I love what I do I love the ability
22:13
[SPEAKER_01]: to work with families and to coach them through these challenges and then to watch the transition in the families, right?
22:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's different because mine was so client-focused and so this has been
22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really been, um, being able to hope for the families that regardless of what happens with their loved ones, they find some means that they're able to move through the world with an element of peace and understanding.
22:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to just, and every go on.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just going to say, I don't know if that answer is your question.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It did really long.
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Linda Dancer.
23:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've so much to say, and that's also my ADHD, but I've always, I've always said.
23:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, people refer to people in this field, right?
23:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not the program.
23:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really this feeling you get from people, right?
23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And because, you know, I try on this show to say, you know, these are the green flags, these are the red flags.
23:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's just sometimes this, you want people in your corner that are going to fight the good fight.
23:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was watching something this morning.
23:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll talk about I talk about this on another episode because everybody's I'm sure I don't know if you're watching, but this whole Lindsey Clancy case and what's riveting if you don't know about the case what's riveting about this case is without knowing the case is there's a woman who.
23:59
[SPEAKER_02]: isn't it's never been heard for her postpartum psychosis.
24:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Fortunately, she, uh, killed her children.
24:06
[SPEAKER_02]: She is on basically they're deciding if she's going to be in the hospital for the rest of her life or go to prison.
24:12
[SPEAKER_02]: The point is, um, her defense attorneys, this guy named Kevin Readington, who is taken the internet by storm.
24:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And he has, because he's the 75-year-old guy who, who
24:26
[SPEAKER_02]: sees her.
24:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's her advocates for her is in her ear holding her hand walking through this, right?
24:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And why I'm talking about him is, you know, in the work we do with mental health and with addiction,
24:48
[SPEAKER_02]: you want obviously the best therapist and the best treatment, but you also want that coach who's going to advocate for you and fight for you and be in the trenches kind of with you and get it.
25:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's who you are, Jolene.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and that's what I was trying to say is like there's
25:09
[SPEAKER_02]: the real good coaches out there, the people out there, the ones who see you and also will help you make the shifts and changes that are being spoken about also in family therapy, that are being spoken about in therapy.
25:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I think everybody, and I see this with my friends, I see it with myself, you know.
25:29
[SPEAKER_02]: when we think it's just easy to change something we do or change how we love somebody or change how right you know what I mean and when I when I think about that I always think about you know the first person who broke my heart and every time I wanted to text them if they broke up with me
25:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I would text a friend of mine first and she would help me draft a text or me think of before I would always it was just innate you know this is I want to text this is how I want to love this unhealthy whatever and so for me what a coach is is their kind of
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're not going to abuse their power and talk to them 24 seven, but they are applying in real time these situations where and I want to ask you like when a family does hire you right and because I what I'm and and by the way, if I could give every friend of mine, jolene night as a coach, I would as a gift.
26:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not just saying this because you're my friend, you are like, I mean, you kind of have kind of put your kids through college.
26:43
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm kidding.
26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm kidding.
26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do.
26:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're just one of the very special ones and you and because you are an incredible mother.
26:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, first and foremost, and you also have done you dedicated your life to this work and know what it takes and I.
27:01
[SPEAKER_02]: when we talk about coaching and I think what you really love to do is coach these families and showing them maybe how to we just had an episode with the family piece and loving differently and not tough love and all this kind of stuff.
27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Kelly Grant and I were talking about you know doing families asking these families do these tiny shifts is virtually impossible most of the time.
27:22
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like I gave an example where we had a young woman who was in treatment, who God bless her.
27:28
[SPEAKER_02]: She was diagnosed as borderline, would make these grand announcements every time she was leaving treatment.
27:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And every time she would leave, she would call mom and dad immediately mom and dad to pick up the phone and then we were back
27:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it was repeat repeat repeat and so we kept saying to the parents and you would think it'd be easy, but it's not I'd say just for the next like hour don't pick up the phone for three hour, you know what I mean and they could they couldn't do it and it was like we needed a gelene to say, you know, just stay with them, you know, because the treatment and case management and all that can help, but like to help them actually.
28:06
[SPEAKER_02]: do these shifts, try these shifts out, and so give me like a good example, you know, when you're working with a family, what's a good example, but for people out there listening, where you've helped maybe differently than maybe a therapist, the therapist will do the clinical work, but just give me an everyday situation that you may deal with.
28:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, my phone is full of screenshots of text exchanges between families and, you know, their adult children or their adolescents.
28:46
[SPEAKER_01]: that is, this is what they just texted me, how do I respond to this?
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
28:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm not a case manager.
28:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, and I'm always really transparent with families when I get a call, which is I am by no means a replacement for therapy.
29:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, therapy is an important component to this.
29:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
29:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I like working.
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, in a collaborative effort.
29:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if I have my absolute best case scenario, it is the clients in therapy, the families in therapy.
29:22
[SPEAKER_01]: the family is working with me as a coach.
29:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
29:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's a family therapist who is conducting family therapy.
29:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
29:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I died.
29:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I talk about the time.
29:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Build that army.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't my sweet spot is because then you're covering all the bases.
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And.
29:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, and so really it's it's my role is I have some families that meet with me several times a week and all of my families know that I'm reachable does that mean that I'm reachable 24 seven and I'm going to get back to you right away.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it means often times I have 10 minutes in between clients and I can respond to a text message or if need be I can get on a call and
30:07
[SPEAKER_01]: really you know trying to because that the the other piece of it that I want to talk about is my goal is not for families to be dependent on a family coach.
30:20
[SPEAKER_01]: My goal is for families to be able to take the information what they're willing to sit through in terms of being uncomfortable.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: and go out and try it out and come back and say, I gave it a good college try and it didn't work out and we can look at it and shift it and adjust it and ultimately for them to trust themselves because I think that, you know, with families that have had loved ones in multiple treatment programs, most of them are coming to me really defeated
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: that it's their fault, that they did this, that they're continued in ablating for lack of a better word or lack of boundaries has resulted in this.
31:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're they're coming to me feeling pretty broken.
31:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not to say that there isn't true to that, but those dynamics are a much bigger picture
31:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Being a parent, being a parent and I'm just speaking about the parents because I do work with spouses and I work with, you know, a lot of women that are navigating empty nest and, you know, what that looks like and hormone shifts and what is the second half of my life look like but when I'm talking about, you know, parents specifically, being a parent is primal, it is a primal role.
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether you want it or not, your kid is in danger, you are going to get in front of that danger and do everything that you can to try to save them.
32:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so a lot of times what we're asking families to do is to fight a primal response to protecting their children.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you brought up, you know, just for an hour don't answer the phone call with, you know, the family we're talking about.
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I've kind of discovered that sometimes it's easier for families to practice outside of.
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: their kid or their loved one.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, could you practice this at work with somebody that keeps whatever speaking to in a way that, you know, derogatory and it doesn't feel good for you with the way that they're talking to you, would you be willing to say to them, the way you're talking to me makes me uncomfortable.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd rather have a conversation where it isn't so contentious.
32:58
[SPEAKER_01]: to practice that sometimes, and that gives them enough courage to have that conversation with their loved one.
33:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
33:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a really good idea.
33:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that you said that.
33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Good to practice.
33:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.
33:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I have them.
33:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You have them.
33:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And as you were talking, I want to stress like
33:18
[SPEAKER_02]: when I have also utilized Jolene, it hasn't always been like family's in crisis, you know, in pleasant treatment or, you know, husband is this and that or this is not, it's really about a lot of times when I've had colleagues, friends or families or people just come to me is they're on this hamster wheel, right?
33:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, keep doing the same thing, getting the same results,
33:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Just know that they have to do something differently and need help and to do that differently and like you know a good example of that which I see and there's no
33:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Listen, I will I'm not a mom so I can't sit here and say how I'd mom.
34:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I couldn't be a mother Because I would be the one sleeping in the crib checking the breathing and I mean as I sit here I joke like I tell people it's like, you know, don't pick up the phone yet if my dog is in a seat for longer than three minutes crying I'm like You know, I can't yeah, cry out anyway.
34:24
[SPEAKER_02]: My point is this is that I
34:27
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of times, you know, what we've seen in years and years and years is this kind of different type of parenting a little bit where is this like gentle parenting they call it or whatever, but it's even like getting a parent to practice like, hey, you know.
34:47
[SPEAKER_02]: to really get thought there.
34:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, hey, and it's gone.
34:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And no, but like, my kid is talking to me really bad, and swearing at me and just being a jerk.
34:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, how do you actually talk to them differently where they know that that's not okay?
35:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
35:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, little shifts to get different.
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I'm making any sense, but you know, I mean, I do, and I think that that's the other piece of it
35:16
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, I would say, you know, most of the parents I'm working with are somewhere between 40 to 70.
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
35:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big age span.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And the world that we grew up in is not the
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: what worked for us back then does not necessarily work for us today.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, here's the other thing, as I think, and this is an opinion.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: that it is really easy for providers to tell families what they have to do or what they should do.
36:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So true.
36:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It is really easy.
36:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to say that.
36:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm guilty of it until I had kids of my own.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Until I was faced with my own challenges.
36:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I went, oh.
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That actually doesn't work.
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you set the thinking in your real life, you try shifting something you do with your partner or with your mom, you know?
36:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's, you know, that piece of it is it's so easy to just, you know, kind of spout without consideration.
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: My goal as a coach is to operate with consideration, you know, considering, can you say that I can't feel like it's going?
36:52
[SPEAKER_01]: My goal as a coach is to operate with consideration.
36:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But you said some consideration with the operation, so I thought that sounded good, but did you remember?
37:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
37:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I said cooperation and it rhymes with operation.
37:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought we had a zinger, we don't continue, but it's true.
37:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But, and so I think that that's where, you know, coaching can be beneficial for families is to, you know, try to disseminate the information that they've had and really look at, okay, like, what, what, what is working and what is it?
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And what do you, what do you want?
37:33
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your
37:38
[SPEAKER_02]: think is really important.
37:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think thank you.
37:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what I've also learned with myself with people that I also tried to connect the dots and find therapists and coaches for is as a human you have to
37:56
[SPEAKER_02]: city yourself and it's really hard for people to do and say, my way isn't working.
38:01
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not working.
38:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've read every book.
38:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I've gone to every support group.
38:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to do something differently and and it's okay, you know, and I talk about it on this episode, um, this podcast about how I got here in my story and I say, you know, I am fortunate and I own it and I love it that
38:24
[SPEAKER_02]: the worst of times I have and the best.
38:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the worst of times, I have this army of village, of people that are gonna are gonna help me through anything and everything.
38:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's my therapist.
38:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is my coach, by the way.
38:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I need to stress jolly, and I help me find my coach.
38:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because I was kind of on this hamster wheel myself with my mental health.
38:52
[SPEAKER_02]: my marriage with my life, with my day to day.
38:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I'd be crying to her as a friend.
38:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, let's try something differently.
39:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's,
39:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, and you help me find the best person to walk me through this journey, you know, and do it differently.
39:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what you touched on is so true.
39:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's so important for families to hear this because I think they think, you know, there's all this shame that, you know, when a provider says, you know, just don't pick up the phone.
39:25
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, don't be ready to, you know, give them money or do this or do that.
39:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we're like, all right, we'll see you next week.
39:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so much easier said than done.
39:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think like any new behavior and any new, you got to practice that and you need, you need someone coaching you and I don't know.
39:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I just know that every person that I've put in your world or I've connected with the
39:53
[SPEAKER_02]: and being empowered, feeling brave, feeling seen, and feeling so proud of themselves, because they are like, you know, and it's so different than going to a therapist.
40:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like,
40:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, because I think, uh, and we stress that some of the episodes, I think, you know, when we're talking about someone, if we're talking about the person who goes into treatment, we're like, it's not just the client or the patient.
40:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone has to change.
40:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's really hard to do, right?
40:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
40:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's kind of like,
40:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like I used to say to my mom, stop focusing on what my dad is and and like how he sucks and just that and the other and sorry, doubt if you're listening.
40:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But like my mom would and she'd focus on that and she loved that role.
40:43
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what her role was to focus on that and to ask her to do that differently was really different.
40:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the other piece of it.
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: you were talking about like green flags and red flags.
40:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's what I want to get into is what to look for.
40:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and yeah, I think that it's very unique to the person.
41:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's super unique to what somebody is looking for.
41:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a green flag is a coach that is willing to say, this is the on my scope.
41:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's probably important for you to work with a therapist.
41:21
[SPEAKER_01]: and then let's touch base down the line.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really big on that.
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: If I, you know, I will always do, you know, a consult call with people and I usually know within the first couple minutes if it's going to be
41:38
[SPEAKER_02]: The right fit for them And if they need the therapist in the coach and and I love that you said that because I have worked with coaches where I'm like guys This is so outside.
41:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the work here.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I know my lane.
41:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to stay in my lane.
41:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not a therapist
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys should be working on each other and there are amazing therapists out there, but I think that's a green flag is, you know, a coach that is willing to say this is my lane, a ministry and it, this is beyond my scope right and not taking on something.
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: really for financial gain.
42:19
[SPEAKER_02]: My mama's family loves my coach, by the way.
42:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, she's like, I've seen changes in you.
42:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I love how he is helping you and like,
42:33
[SPEAKER_02]: she like gets it.
42:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, that's the other thing.
42:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Like whoever you're hiring, that's also a green flag.
42:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to hire people, whether it's case management and we'll talk about that on the other episode.
42:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So intervention is all these people you're going to hire who want to collaborate as a team.
42:51
[SPEAKER_02]: If if people are like saying, no, I can do everything, you know, that's kind of a red flag.
42:57
[SPEAKER_02]: What
42:59
[SPEAKER_02]: If you've got somebody just starting from the beginning on like how to find the right coach or like what are some other things to look for maybe.
43:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I think starting with what is the intention of getting a coach and the intention may just be my therapist told me I needed to get a coach.
43:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
43:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think giving, you know, families an opportunity to really look at what, what do they want to get out of it.
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a big piece of it, not just going into it kind of blindly, but really.
43:32
[SPEAKER_01]: really having an understand in what is your goal and your intention?
43:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it to, you know, just deal with this crisis situation, right?
43:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's another piece of it.
43:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Is I do have families that they come to me.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: They're in the peak of crisis, the crisis
44:00
[SPEAKER_01]: whenever a family is looking to work with a coach that they're at least willing to make a commitment to see it through and not just when there's a crisis such as, right, because the difference, see that ladder for the people in the back, because I come across this all the time.
44:18
[SPEAKER_01]: This level of consciousness can't be duplicated.
44:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I say something good, it's usually a one-time deal.
44:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So what Jolene said, and I'm going to stress that is this, and I say this with therapy, because this drives me crazy of a family member.
44:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to say who it is.
44:36
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the younger generation, and it's only when crisis.
44:42
[SPEAKER_02]: This delicious human being calls me, right?
44:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, I, I want like the therapist the coaches, all of that, you know, I think, you know, it has this stigma that everything, you hire these people, you know, obviously you're gonna ask for help when you need help.
45:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But sure.
45:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And but it doesn't have to you shouldn't be finding people like this in crisis ideally but you also should be utilizing these people you know it's not like okay you just got me through that now we're done and I don't need to right.
45:20
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, thanks for all that and getting me brave and we'll talk again.
45:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
45:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's this it's kind of like the analogy with chemo and I hate using it but I do it's only with mental health that it's like we wouldn't be like all right well I feel better and as the doctor says that you know, the
45:42
[SPEAKER_02]: the cancer is being receptive to the chemo.
45:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess I'm just going to stop chemo right now, right?
45:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
45:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not doing that, you know, and go on.
45:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, but it goes back to what I said earlier, which is, I don't want families that are dependent on coaching.
45:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I want them to be able to get out and have those experiences, of course.
46:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But generally, people are not coming to me because all as well in the world is you.
46:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's there's
46:09
[SPEAKER_01]: some type of external motivating factor.
46:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But the goal is is once that crisis subsides because you're operating in a very different state of mind and things reach an element of homeostasis is to do the work so that when and if the crisis hits again, it doesn't change the
46:33
[SPEAKER_01]: but the families have more tools because they've remained engaged and invested.
46:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, you know, a coach is really personal.
46:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, a therapist, also very personal.
46:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will often say, you know, listen, there are other great coaches out there.
46:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you should probably talk to a couple of people before you make a decision.
46:57
[SPEAKER_02]: That's another green flag, you guys.
47:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Every, oh, I got a thumbs up on my, I don't even know how that up.
47:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You have tattoos on your hand?
47:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice to meet you.
47:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Go to the other hand.
47:10
[SPEAKER_01]: The other hand, I've never read that.
47:11
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I keep my hands down, I keep them down.
47:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think that's to answer your question, you know, you want to look at family should ask.
47:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at options.
47:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a conversation.
47:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Have a conversation.
47:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this feels okay for me, right?
47:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna let him know.
47:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I'm super straightforward.
47:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, you know, I am compassionate and understanding and I'm never gonna ask you to do something that you're not comfortable doing.
47:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I will make suggestions, right?
47:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I will ask if you're willing to be uncomfortable, we together will decide what the best course of action is.
47:54
[SPEAKER_01]: not me telling you what to do.
47:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I worry, my guidance.
47:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's about the extent of it.
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that being able to have that conversation with somebody is an important piece of it.
48:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I just interrupt and just say this because I suggest this to you?
48:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like when you're going to look for surgeons, I say this with treatment with everything.
48:15
[SPEAKER_02]: A green flag is gonna definitely be and I stress this with all my families looking at coaches or therapists.
48:20
[SPEAKER_02]: This is such a personal,
48:22
[SPEAKER_02]: turning so personal and this is like such an investment in you that I don't want a green flag is you should be looking at other you should be compared like and seeing where the chemistry is, how you feel like you will know it's a relationship you will know if this is someone who's
48:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Um
48:54
[SPEAKER_01]: anything else for me?
48:56
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I feel like we said so much.
48:57
[SPEAKER_02]: We did and there's so much more.
48:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Jolie Knight doesn't know this you guys, but she will be a reoccurring guest.
49:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I call?
49:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You will.
49:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I told you I would.
49:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I love this.
49:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I just couldn't commit to doing it every week, but I will jump on any time.
49:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to have like treatment jeopardy.
49:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like the
49:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
49:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's do this.
49:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I need these are the allegations against you.
49:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what?
49:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to do.
49:32
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my secret passion.
49:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like in my dream and I tell my wife this and some other people.
49:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you ever see the show undercover boss?
49:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
49:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
49:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a great show.
49:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But they have a horrible undercover rehab.
49:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me explain.
49:47
[SPEAKER_02]: They have a horrible budget with a costume and makeup most of the time, right?
49:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
49:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So my thing is I want to do undercover rehab where you get great actors, great costumes, great makeup.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And you kind of go and do the good work for the good people.
50:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, yeah, I don't want to scare people from going to treatment.
50:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to scare people from getting the help they need.
50:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But I know
50:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Please do your due diligence, you know, I spoke about this a little bit and I'm just going to say this, I spoke about this a little bit like when I was
50:27
[SPEAKER_02]: had my episode with my amazing mother who's daughter had survived the parkland shooting.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And at the time, what I learned about after tragedies like this is people want to stay close to their community, close to home, and what I saw were a lot of like vultures, exploit that, and come in,
50:50
[SPEAKER_02]: and do more damage than good.
50:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So please, even if like your neighbor said, hey, so and so referred me, like do your due diligence.
50:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I also think a good thing for families to ask you or ask coaches is, do you have other families I can speak to that have worked with you?
51:07
[SPEAKER_02]: That was
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[SPEAKER_02]: And Jolene Knight, if you're lucky enough, I can't say enough, please, she is, you are the shit.
51:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And if, I mean, I've tried to hire you as my coach, but, you know, and you have coach me through so much.
51:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Last but not least before we get off the phone, I always, and like to say this, because it's connect call.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You are on the phone with a family of loved one.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If there's one
51:41
[SPEAKER_02]: from your conversation because you're not going to be talked of them again.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What's one lasting thing you want them to hear?
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[SPEAKER_02]: To take away.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess it would be if your hope is reliant on another person changing.
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's not true.
51:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Take a moment.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's really what I want.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Most families to walk away feeling is that they have some agency over their own lives.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Their lives most at the time had been consumed by disruption and sadness and heartbreak.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of times they're waiting for their sad loved one to get it together, to get on with their lives, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: while coexisting with the sadness, the suffering and the discomfort.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's really what my hope is.
52:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I'm not a parent.
52:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I joke with my friends that these little people of hijacked your hearts and your schedules, travel sports, I don't even want to get into it.
52:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think what you just said is so important.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And my mother didn't have the luxury of having a coach, but she tried so hard to be able to say,
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[SPEAKER_02]: No matter what happens with Hannah, good or bad, I still have to have my own life, find my joy, find my happy.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And have a life outside of just being the mom of Hannah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean, and just, I do.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And basically, you know, so,
53:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I, I love you.
53:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait to have you on again.
53:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I love love love love.
53:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Please everyone, um, subscribe download, um, jolly night, jolly night consulting.
53:41
[SPEAKER_02]: All of our information will be on our show notes.
53:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.
53:45
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
53:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Joe.
53:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you.
53:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Santa.
53:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
53:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call.
53:52
[SPEAKER_02]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
54:03
[SPEAKER_02]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical health professional or health care provider for personalized advice tailored to your unique needs.
54:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential.
54:16
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area.
54:25
[SPEAKER_02]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority.
54:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to support you every step of the way.