Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / River Ryan, Justin Verlander and finding meaning in the final week

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River Ryan, Justin Verlander and finding meaning in the final week · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: And welcome in to another episode of Tiger Territory, part
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: of the FAL Territory Network, Detroit Tigers Podcast. I'm Kieran Steckley.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: With me, as always, is a man who was seasoned
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at weathering storms. He is Cody Stavenhagen. How are we doing?
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Sat through a lot of rain delays in my life, Karen, several,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: several hours. I wonder if it adds up to more
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: than a full day already. Probably got to be getting close. Um,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: not at this one in Chicago and not, not mad
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: about not being there.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: It's, uh, it's one of those that it only exists
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: because it's the last weekend before the last weekend and
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: really any other context. I'm like, all right, we'll figure
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: it out later. But, uh, it's true. Not, Not able
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to do that with one week left in the season.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: So we were actually recording this before Sunday's game. It's
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: an indefinite rain delay, so we wanted to be able
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to kind of get our thoughts in here about some
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: more bigger picture stuff anyway, which is more important than
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: some of the stuff that goes on in between the lines.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: But I did want to start with Friday night's game
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: because we talked Friday morning, Cody, about the inability to
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: win close games. Now, technically, it wasn't in... some of
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: the categories that we talked about because it ended up
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: being a three, three run win for the Tigers, 11
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: to eight. One of the more, Oh, games that you'll
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: watch with that, you know, with all those unearned runs
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: in the first standing and then, and then the comeback
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: there late. And I got to say, like, I've, I've,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I've repeated this before, but like things like that do like,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: give me like a level of enjoyment in a vacuum
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: watching this young team kind of do either you know
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: really good things or sort of like out of nowhere
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: things you know what i mean and seeing how you
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: lee take that fastball above like out of the zone
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: go opposite field for uh for a home run and
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: the emotion that he has like with him it's hard
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: not to kind of get sucked in just a little
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: bit like that that was a fun game was it
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: not like take away the meaning maybe for a second
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: was that not fun right that.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Was super fun what an incredible comeback and it's kind
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: of the blessing and curse of baseball, of being a
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: baseball fan, of following the game, of following maybe this
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: year's Tigers team specifically. Like what a moment. Howie Lee
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: fired up on the bases, said he blacked out afterward.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Riley Green just hitting the snot out of the ball again.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: This incredible comeback from down 8-0, from getting pummeled in
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: the first inning to winning that game. It was a
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: fun night. And yet you look up and it's, you know,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: you see some of the quotes and kind of this
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: hype that starts to build. And then it's like, well,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: This is mostly pretty fake. The season is all but
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: officially over. This whole year has been a failure. Should
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: you really feel good about this one night on the
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: south side of Chicago at the end of the season?
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I don't even know the answer to that question. I
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: think that's one of the things. The longer I've done this,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: you just kind of have to be able to separate,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: to your point. We should be able to acknowledge that
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: that was a fun game, that the young guys in
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: that game showed a lot of fight, showed a lot
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: of character. It doesn't really do anything for me to
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: change the narrative of the season. I think it's way
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: overstating it to be like, this says something about the
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: team going forward. I don't know if it does, but
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: it was pretty cool. I think everyone involved in that
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: comeback deserves a lot of credit, and at the end
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: of the day, I guess that's one more win in
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: the win column, which is better than another loss in
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: what is now going down as yet another losing season.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, everything you said there is fair. We
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: don't have to talk about momentum going into 2027 with
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: games like this. But we can remember games like this
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: if there is some sort of... I guess you could
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: call it a turnaround if they get back to their
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: winning ways next year in a way. At least a
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: bounce-back season. And moments like these would be something to
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: be like, you know what? Those playoff teams... A lot
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: of the dudes from those playoff teams were not playing
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: down the stretch for the Tigers, and these are the
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: moments that kind of at least laid some sort of
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: inkling that it could happen. Not from our observer's perspective,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: not from a building a foundation perspective.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: You know what, I don't know. I really don't want
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: to be a hater here, but I can already hear
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: the voice of team leadership at the end of the
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: year being like, you know what was really important is
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: that our young guys got to play meaningful games into September.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: How true is that? Like technically they weren't eliminated, but Oh,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: you're within four and a half of the, like a
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: fake expanded wild. Like, I guess it's good. You got
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: to see some intense environments. You're playing another team that
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: does have something real at stake. I just think it's overstated.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: You're going to hear that line. You know, they got
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: to see what meaningful baseball looks like. And I think
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: that's kind of fake. That's something you say when you're
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: looking for something nice to say about a season that
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: went awry. So I don't, want to feed a whole
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: lot into that narrative. Um, I guess it's better than
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: being eight games out and playing a team that isn't
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: in contention at all. But I, I don't think that
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: actually carries much weight going forward.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to see if I can land the plane here. Right.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Meet like the games are not meaningful in the sense
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: of the broader, like, uh, you know, they're playing like for,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: for the playoffs, the championship or whatever, like they are
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: not meaningful in that sense. But I still believe there
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: is meaning to be found in being able to see
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the ball go through the hoop, to use another basketball analogy,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: to see the ball go over the fence, to have
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Drew Summers go two perfect innings and then be a
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: part of another Kenley Jansen save or whatever. These kinds
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: of things, there is meaning to be found. But I
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: agree with you. There's not these young guys played meaningful games.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: We're talking about this. Like it's the end of the
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: 2023 season. Isn't it great that the team started playing
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: better at the end of the year? That's what we
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: were talking about in 2023. And that just shouldn't be
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: the narrative for a season that started with, with Tarek
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: scruple on your team and with very high, very high expectations.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: So it's not that it's all irrelevant or all meaningless,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: but I don't love the narrative shift. And I, I, I,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Would honestly hope team leadership is realistic enough to not
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: try to lean too hard into that at the end
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: of the year. I think there needs to be some culpability,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: some accountability to Scott Harris's credit. He actually showed a
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: ton of that at the trade deadline. His press conference
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: that day was pretty good. There's nothing wrong with being
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: excited about some of the young talent that has started
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: to show up and play in the major leagues and
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: look capable of thriving in tough environments and But it's
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: hard for me to get too excited about what ultimately
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: amounts to like, oh, yeah, that was a fun Friday
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: night in Chicago.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: All right. I found it. I found it.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Games, meaningless. Moments, meaningful.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. I think that's how
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: we can summarize that.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: We are going to get to a quick break. And
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: then afterward, some good news. Going to see some exciting faces,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: somewhat new or very new. on the Mount of Comerica
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: this week. But first, a word from our sponsors. So, Jay,
• 7:45
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• 7:49
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• 7:51
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• 7:54
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• 7:56
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• 7:59
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• 8:01
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• 8:06
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• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Alright, coming back here. I believe that the Tigers, an
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: example of what happened on Friday, is they just do
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: enough to keep our interest. We can't completely be out.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: The collective we, the general we. This week, This is
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: another example because we're going to see River Ryans. This
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: is all, you know, obviously probable pitcher stuff. We're going
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: to see River Ryan start a game on Monday at
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Comerica Park. The long-awaited, speaking of Tarek Skubal, the long-awaited...
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Major League debut of somebody that was involved in the
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: school trade. It's not his Major League debut.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: He's pitched in the Major League before.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right. His Tigers debut. Well, the Major League
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: debut for a returner.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: It's basically a re-debut of River Ryan because his Major
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: League debut was what? Already like two years ago?
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Major League. 2024, he pitched four games. The
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Major League debut of anybody involved in that trade. That too. Anyway, yeah.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Is really what I meant, but you were correct to
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: correct me there. And then Justin Verlander is scheduled to
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: pitch on Saturday. So, speaking of meaning, what's the more meaningful...
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Ryan or Verlander, maybe?
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it very much depends on your perspective. The more
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: meaningful in terms of tangible meaning for the Detroit Tigers
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: and their future is River Ryan. As I've said, this
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: is kind of one of the biggest storylines that just
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: has been quietly bubbling under the surface since the Scooble
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: trade Would he get healthy? What was he going to
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: look like? When was he going to pitch in the majors? Well,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: he's not going to pitch in the majors until the
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: final homestand, but he is going to pitch, which is
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: certainly better than nothing. I don't think he's anywhere close
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: to being all the way built up. If you can see,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know, two trips through the order, two, three innings,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: whatever it may be, it's an interesting glimpse. It's actually
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: such a small glimpse that we probably shouldn't assign too
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: much stake to.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: The raw results, if he strikes out five guys and
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: looks nasty, does that mean he should be anointed going
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: into the season?
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Probably not.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: And if he gets hit around a little bit, does
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: that mean it was a bad trade? Like, no, probably not.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: It's good to get him on the bump in the
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: major leagues. Come next spring training, man, there are going
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: to be a lot of eyeballs on River Ryan. And
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: then the more meaningful and the more traditional sense, what's
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: going to evoke emotions from people? Man, that's Justin Verlander.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it, and Kieran, you may be
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: better suited to talk about this, because you grew up
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: a Tigers fan, you watch Verlander closely in his prime.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: This is going to be a day more about memories.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Assuming we get here, it's still not 100% official, he's
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: going to have to go through another throwing session, make
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: sure he comes out of that okay. But I'm sure
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: the park is going to be packed, there are going
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to be a lot of Verlander jerseys, people are going
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: to go, not just to see Justin Verlander pitch, but
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: to They're going to go to feel something. The memories
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: of Verlander at his best, that's going to remind you
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: of watching games with your parents or watching games with
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: your children or whatever it may be. That brings up
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: so many feelings and so many memories. Assuming Verlander starts
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: on Saturday, that is what that is really going to
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: be about. I think you just have to hope that
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: it goes okay. For me, there's still a fear. What
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: if he goes out there and he he gets rocked
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: or what if he goes out there and there's his
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: hamstring off his bone and has to limp off the
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: field or something. That's not what anyone wants. That's very,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: not very much. Not what Justin Verlander wants. There's something
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: at stake. And Verlander has been pretty candid about that.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Like he is risking something by trying to do this.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I think that means this is somewhat of a vanity project,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: except for it's not just about Justin Verlander. It's about
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: the tigers. It's about Detroit. It's about Michigan. It's about community.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: And so that's the cool thing about moments like that.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: We got to see it with Miguel Cabrera a few
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: years ago. I guess, Kieran, I'm more curious, you know,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: from your perspective, what you think it will be like
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: watching him go out there for a final time.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, you know, I'll have, I'll be going through
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: all of these things in my mind over the course
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: of the next week. But when I think of Berlander's
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: time with the Tigers, I think of, like, the pride
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: you had in being a Tigers fan that you could,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: that you, you know, that you had one of the
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: best young pitchers. And then eventually, you know, you know,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: he had the MVP Cy Young's and like all this stuff,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: all these, like all these, like, like he was like, yeah,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Verlander's my guy. And, you know, similar to what school
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: or whatever, but you also had a longer track record
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: and then school and Verlander was in your life longer
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: because he was what the third pick or whatever in the,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: in the draft of, you know, whatever high pick. So
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: you started reading about him a lot more. following along
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: a lot more and and and and for me for
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: somebody like my age or around my age i think
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it will be like a chapter closing because this is
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: somebody for what's worth second overall pick oh yeah um
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: it'll be a chapter closing you know like i i
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: sometimes i joke about feeling old but obviously i'm not
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: old i'm 33 years old but justin verlander's been in
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: my life since i was about probably like let's see
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: 2005 so like 11 years old ish give or take
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: you know what i mean and so like this this
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: thing that i've always that i've always like paid attention
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: to yeah it's like it's like.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Chapter closing you are you're old now when justin verlander
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: retires you're washed it's.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: All it will no longer be a thing that like
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: that that i will like be focused on and um
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: And so that will be like a strange emotion for me.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I know I plan on going over to my parents'
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: house and watching the game with my dad, because those
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: are some of the formidable memories of like the passing
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: of the torch generationally of, of Tigers fandom was watching
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Verlander on those Tigers teams in the playoffs, you know,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: in the world series. And, and he will always be
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: connected to that and, and have those memories with me
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: or whatever. So, That will be the weird thing is
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: that you think about all the things that have changed
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: since he kind of came into your life. So everybody
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: think about this. Since Justin Verlander came into your life,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: think about all the things that have changed. And now
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: it will be done. Outside of him getting hurt, I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: really don't care about the results. I don't want him
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: to get hurt. But if he gives up three straight
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: home runs, man, it's not going to affect what I
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: feel and what I'm going through that day. You know,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: it's going to be just special to kind of see
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: him on the mound there one more time. And then
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you, even though this injury thing has been frustrating,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I would also say that the journey here and just
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: kind of how candid he's been and how he's just
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: kind of been soaking it all in, and I've talked
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: about this before, but being in the dugout and, like,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: really being invested in these games that, like, and a
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: season that has gone horribly for the team as well
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: as him, like, That part is special to me, too,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: is because it makes you feel like, okay, he feels
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: it like you feel it, whereas his post-Detroit career, he
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: kind of gave that the stiff arm, and we've talked
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: about that over the years as well. So the softening
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: of JV is also one of the things that, if
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I could say a silver lining to all of this,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I would say that has been something that I have,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say enjoyed, but found to be
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: a pleasant part of this bad season.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's strange because there's part of me that can't
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: help but be like, should he actually do this? You
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: risk nothing by going out there, tipping your hat, hearing
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: a video tribute, whatever. Everyone gets their bobblehead and cheers
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: for JV. He might want to pitch, but if he
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: walks off, the last memory is him tipping his cap.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: That can't go wrong. There's nothing at stake. And I
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: think that's been kind of a knotted tension behind this
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: almost all year, especially as it's become more clear it's
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: probably one outing or nothing. There's still partially Verlander's pride
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: at stake here. I think he really wants to make
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: it back. I think that's important to him, to not
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: go out with a limp. But as you just described,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: and as I just mentioned, it is more than just
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Justin Verlander. It's so everyone can feel that again, not
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: just him. So in that way, it's not just a
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: vanity project. It's like a community. Maybe it's a vanity
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: project for the whole Detroit baseball community, and maybe that's okay.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: So I just, assuming we get here and assuming it happens,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: I hope it goes well. I think it's good perspective
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: by you, Kieran, to be like, yeah, if he gets
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: up three homers, whatever. As you're right, that doesn't change
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: his legacy. That doesn't change the fact that he's one
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: of the best pitchers to ever do it. But I
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: think the point of doing this is so everyone can
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: feel good. And so if they're going to go through
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: with it, I hope, I hope everyone is able to
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: walk away actually feeling good about how it went down.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: You know, I think it's awesome that, that Ted Williams
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: hit a home run in his last at bat. But
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: other than that, how many times have we talked about
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: someone's last at bat last, like last outing or whatever.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So it's okay. Like everything that got us to this
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: point makes everything worth it. And it's still going to
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: be a special moment. And again, I agree with your concerns,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and I love Vern Nylander's candidness about this. As long
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: as you don't get hurt, it's all good. It's all gravy.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: So that's something that we'll definitely talk more about as
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the week, as the day approaches, I should say. All right,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: let's get to, I want to do a little exercise here, Cody,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: where I wanted to, put the war out for some
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of these rookies. So again, we're talking about war. What
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: does it mean, right? What is it good for? And
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: then kind of see how it matches up with our
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: general eye test. So I think it's just kind of
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: a good way to parse through a couple of things.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So let's start with the easy one. Kevin McGonigal. Coming
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: into Sunday, Kevin McGonigal has a reference war of 6.8,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: a fan graphs war of 5.1. Yeah, you could have
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: told me any high number, and I'd just be like, yep, yep,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the Lions. That's what I see. Easy analysis there. I
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: don't know if you have anything riveting to say about that.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Not other than it's, again, underappreciated that this is not
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: just a really good season, that this is one of
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: the best rookie seasons ever, especially if you are a
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: believer in the Church of B-War, where Kevin McGonigal is
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: at 6.8. That's only the greatest rookie season of all
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: time by a player under 21 years old. He has passed...
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: 1939 Ted Williams and 2001 Albert Pujols at, I believe
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: they were at 6.6 B war McGonagall, of course, almost
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: a full win lower in fan graphs, um, wins above replacement, um,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: which does not, uh, views his defense differently is what
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: that comes down to. And that's different too, because McGonagall
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: has been amazing, right? But it doesn't really feel like, wow,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: this is better than Ted Williams. Part of that is
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: because he's so well-rounded, even though, We all know the
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: defense hasn't been as great lately, but 276, look, not
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: easy to hit 276 in today's game. 17 homers, it's
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: not like 40 or whatever. Pretty dang good. 377 at
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: one base, that really should get more credit. The fact
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: he continues to walk at such a high clip is incredible.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: He's on base all the time. He's always impacting the game.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: He's always doing something special. I can't say enough about
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Kevin McGonigal's rookie season, But the way you frame this
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: is actually interesting. Would you actually think this is the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: best ever by a player under 21? It doesn't necessarily
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: feel that way, but I think that just speaks to
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: the consistency, the even keel nature of Kevin McGonigal, as
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: we've said kind of all year. He's not flashy. He
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: just shows up to the yard, and he performs, and
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: he produces well. In almost some way, every single day,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: and then you look up, oh my God, there's almost
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: a seven-war player in his age 21 season. That's incredible.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as reliable as they come, I would say as
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: mature a ball player as you will probably see of
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: somebody that age. And at least from afar, you've never
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: really gotten any indication that he thinks his stuff doesn't stink.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Like another one of the under appreciated things here is
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: just how he's handled all this. A lot of attention
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: since the first day of spring training. And he's just
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: kind of been the same guy, the same competitor, um,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: very even keel, very mature behind the scenes as well.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I've mentioned this before too, but I always want worry. Like,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: what is that going to look like when some of
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: these other things like fame starts kind of getting on
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: your shoulders a little bit more and things of that nature, uh,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: It's always hard to know what this is going to
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: look like in another 10 years or whatever, but from
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: what I've observed so far, this is a pretty special
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: dude in more ways than one.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. All right, well, let's get to his longtime partner
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: in crime as they ascended the ranks of the minor
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: leagues together, and then obviously McGonagall got the shot first.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: But Max Clark, who, by the way, on Fangraphs, is
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: listed as Maxwell Clark.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I know, I keep seeing that.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Change that to Max.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I don't like that. Max Clark, who is 1.3 R-War, or.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: B-War, I should say, and 1.4 F-War. So, aligned, but
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: F-War is higher, and again.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I just feel like he has played a very mature
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: brand of baseball since he's come up. He has done
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the little things very well. The sample size is obviously small,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: but you're looking at the numbers if you're watching on YouTube.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of things that are encouraging, and I
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: think he's kind of taken to his role, just gone
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: out and done his business and handled the fact that, yeah,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: he is Max Clark, and he's going to get asked
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: questions a lot after games, and And he's been like
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: candid with you guys, even like spilling defensive alignment secrets
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, but like, but like, but like, I,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I, I always believe I've always
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: been a believer in Max Clark. I've always thought like
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: held on to what his upside could be. But if
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: you would have asked me, like, could this thing get
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: kind of sideways when he's just kind of thrust into
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the major leagues, like late in the summer, while there's
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: drama with the team, the trade deadline, this, that, the
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: other thing. I'd be like, yeah, and I would have
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: not been shocked had that been the case, and the
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: exact opposite has been the case. I wouldn't say he's flourishing,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: but he's playing damn good baseball.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: We talked about not making too much of a single
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: night in Chicago, right? Some of the things that have
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: happened down the stretch, this idea of momentum that is
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: almost always an illusion in baseball. I don't think we
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: should place too much stake into that from a team perspective,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: but I think one of the single most encouraging things
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: that has happened this year is how Max Clark has
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: handled his first taste of the major leagues. The defense
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: has been very good. The bat has been, I think,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: maybe even better than you can ask.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: He's in.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: 278 with near an.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: 800 OPS.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: This guy looks like a guy who can not just
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: hold his own, but be a real impactful player. We've
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: seen the speed show up in multiple ways. We've seen
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: a player who looks like he can be a real
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: force for the Tigers for years to come, who's going
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: to be a huge storyline next spring and early in
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: the season. You talk about middle of the diamond, like
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: he's looked like someone who can stick in center field.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: And if that's the case, that's just a huge asset
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: to your franchise and there's a lot more baseball to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: be played in this young Maxwell's career, right? I'm sure
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: there'll be some highs and lows ahead, but really couldn't
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: be more impressed. I think the fact that he's shown
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: up and not look overmatched at all, showing that he
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: can impact the game in such a wide variety of
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: ways gives you, really gives you something to take into
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: next season and into the future as being like, okay,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: you know, say what you want about the Tigers, say
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: what you want about their front office and, they have
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: some real foundational pieces. Max, since coming to the big
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: lease has absolutely looked like a real foundational piece.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And I think, I think the, if this is something
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: close to the base, the, the upside still being there,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: like there's, there's a, there's, there's a world where he,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: you know, he might catch up to McGonagall. I just don't,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I just, I just, I'm not ruling that out. I'm
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: not ruling that out. That's all. That's all. Uh, Alright,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Eduardo Valencia. 1.2 across the board, Cody. 1.2 on both
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: war scales there. Again, a guy who, speaking of not
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: looking overmatched, I think he has probably done a good...
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: We probably have to give him a lot of credit
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: for having to really learn on the fly. Being thrust
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: into having to be a backup catcher and take on
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: this responsibility and I think I've been impressed with that
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: aspect of it. And then you just look at his numbers.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay, well, you know, he'll take, he'll take,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: you know, batting around 300 and, you know, and it's
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: a 10 game sample here with a 900 OPS. Like there's,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to like with Valencia. This had the,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: this had the potential to be a feel good story.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: That's like, all right, whatever. But no, I actually don't,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I don't, I don't believe that. I think this, this
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: guy looks like he could be a solid piece to
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: to a major league roster.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, another guy who's come up and, man, hard to
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: ask for a much better impression. As we've talked about,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: like the defense probably still needs some smoothing out. Why'd
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: a ball get by him this weekend? Just when you
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: thought maybe the bat was quieting down, you look up, man,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know. This guy, for lack of a more
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: eloquent phrasing, this guy just hits the piss out of
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: the ball, man. Pretty fun. Again, I'd want this dude
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: as the backup catcher next year because he can hit.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: The defense seems adequate enough with the potential to maybe
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: continue getting a little bit better.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: His throws are better. His pops are better. I feel
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: like all that has gotten better.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: He's already made a lot of progress, continuing to show
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: signs of progress. I'm not a huge optimist about the defense,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: but it seems like it can be good enough. We forget, man,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: hitting in the big leagues is so hard. We've seen
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: how many guys over the years, Riley Green, Spencer Torkelson,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Colt Keith, come up and struggle. in their first taste
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: of the major leagues. And then we've seen Eduardo Valencia
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: and Max Clark and how you lead to some degree.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Just be like, no, we got this. We can play.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: We can contribute. That's been most impressive. You're right. It
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: hasn't just been a flash in the pan. He's continued
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: to be a pretty good hitter. I don't know exactly
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: what he looks like in the grand scheme of things,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: but I know he's pretty interesting. I want to see
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: more of this guy at the plate.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and also... pretty nice that the organization, you know,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: they end up, um, you know, the Jake Rogers era ends.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: He was like a 10 out of 10 guy. And,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: and Valencia, uh, Biola counts is also a 10 out
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: of 10 guys. So that's also, that's also important for, uh,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: in my opinion for clubhouse and, and, and, you know,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: having guys like that. All right. Well, you mentioned how
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: you leave, how you leave, uh, B war 0.8, uh,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: F 4.5, probably a defensive difference there. Uh, How you, Lee? S.O.B.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: That's what goes through my head. I mean, obviously, in
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: a fun way. Like, man, this S.O.B., man. He just
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: does it. It always seems like he does it. He plays.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: I love the way he plays. We talked about that
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: home run earlier, and that comes after. He had an error.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Where he just played himself into a bad hop, I believe.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: And somebody who, again, just unafraid, goes about his business.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I just think he's one of those guys that you
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: might have to physically remove from the organization at this point,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: whenever that is. He's just always going to be around.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: He's always going to be around. He's still young. He's
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: age 23. I don't know what the ceiling is. Seems
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: like a solid player and somebody that I will just
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: refuse to count out because there's not a lot that
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: says he should be having this level of success given
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the metrics. We talked about that earlier. But he's always
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: doing something, man. He's always doing something. God give him credit.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Every time I look at these metrics, I'm just like,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: what is going on? And then every time I want
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: to count out how you lead and say, okay, man, whatever.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: He's not going.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: To keep playing this well. He comes through in big moments.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Still hitting 245 in September, but a little power showed up.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: 799 OPS in the last month of the season. And
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: a big thing you point out, Kieran, age 23. If
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: you can have a 750 OPS in the big leagues
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: at age 23, I don't know exactly what that looks
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: like when you put it into projection systems. But I
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: can tell you it's probably going to look comparable to
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of guys who've played a lot of years
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: in the big leagues. That's a hard thing to do.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: He's at 10 homers in 107 games. It's actually crazy
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: to think he's played in 107 games. He's actually not
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: as new to this as it kind of still feels.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: You know, 81 punch outs. Like, as I've said, there's
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: some rough edges to this guy's game. But man, you know.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Anytime you want to count him out, there he is,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: kind of doing something cool, doing something exciting, already somewhat
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: of a fan favorite. I think he's the single hardest
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: out of all these guys to be like. I don't
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: know what sort of player he is going to be,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: but hard to take your eye off of him, and
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: he deserves a lot of credit for what he has done.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: He might be the ultimate, like, if you had to
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: describe anybody on the team that has, like, that epitomizes
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the phrase, like, refuse to lose. Like, he... He might
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: be that guy. I just won't count him out anymore
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: because he gives an S. He shows it on his sleeve.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: In a meaningless game, he's hyping up and all that stuff.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of fun. Brett Callahan,. 2 B-War and negative.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: 1 on the F-War scale. We've talked about we talked
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: about him before. I think there's, I think there's a, um,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I think there's a ceiling, but I think there's a
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: useful upside. If that makes sense. Like I actually, you know,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: impressed with his arm when he, when, when he gets
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: a whole, he can, he can damage, do damage to mistakes. And, uh,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: I know that sounds like simple and maybe not something
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: we should be like putting feather in people's caps, but
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what the game is, man. Like you
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: gotta take advantage of mistakes. And if you're going to
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: be in there, You have to take advantage of mistakes,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: and he has shown the ability to do that. This
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: feels like a fair ranking to me.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, anytime A.J. Hinch talks about Brett Callahan, or really
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: anytime he comes up to bat and Jason Donetti and
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Andy Dirks are talking about Callahan, they say something like, well,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: he's going to be swing. And that's kind of become
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: the definitive trait of Callahan's game. This guy is a
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: free swinger. To the point it's somewhat concerning. 23 punches
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: and 59 at bats, 34.8% strikeout rate. He's connected with
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: the ball impressively a few times. We've also seen it's
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: pretty easy to get him to expand the strike zone.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: It's pretty easy to get him to swing and miss.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: More than these other guys, it seems that there's some Very, like,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: really one very clear area he probably has to improve
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: to be a more viable major league player. It's a
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: little more disciplined in the strike zone. But Callahan himself
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: has had an incredible year just getting here, just getting
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: to the major leagues. This guy was not in big
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: league camp. He was not on anyone's radar, really, this
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: spring and had a tremendous year in AA and AAA,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: and now here he is, gotten his feet wet. I
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: think he has a lot to improve. Probably not someone
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I'm really projecting to be on the opening day roster,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: but someone who we're probably going to see more of
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: in some form or fashion, no doubt.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Ben Malgeri, again, pretty even.. 4 B-War,. 5 F-War. And
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I think there's an athletic profile here that's going to
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: be valuable to the organization. And I think the athletic profile...
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: And again, I don't know if that means he's the
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: fourth outfielder or he's the first caller from Toledo. I'm
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: not getting over my skis here. But there is a
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: usefulness to Ben Maljari that I think is reflective in
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: this war. He's fast. I think he's a capable corner fielder.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: He could probably play center field in a pinch. and
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: he's got a good arm. And he's a right-handed bat,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: and that's going to be something that they might look
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: at here moving forward. So I think this kind of
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: matches up with what I see.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's probably fair. The overall profile, if
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: we're just being objective, is a little bit fringy. But
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: one of those guys who's come up here and done
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: some things that didn't necessarily show up on what you
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: might read about him on MLB Pipeline or whatever. Seems
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: like a little better defender than... what you would think
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: by reading about him seems like a little more polished
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: at the plate, even though you look at the overall numbers,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: like a six 93 OPS, that's not great, but just
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: seems very much in control of himself. All of these guys,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: the way they have just not looked overwhelmed at the
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: major league level has really been impressive. This is a
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: guy who's going to come to camp. And I think
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: probably being a competition to make the roster, it'll probably
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: depend on how, who else they bring in. In fact,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: he's a right-handed outfield bat. He's going to have certainly
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: a chance, kind of in that bucket with Callahan, in
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: that maybe a little bit outside looking in next season,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: but I bet we see plenty more of this guy
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: in Detroit in some form or fashion. I don't know
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: how high the upside is, but what we've learned about
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: him is, well, the floor might be higher than anyone
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: would have thought as well. This is a guy who
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: is capable of being a big leaguer.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. And then I would also say, like,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: you know, on the graphic there, he had his WRC
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Plus is one-on-one. Hey, man, you could take, like, that's just,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: that means you're just slightly above average. This is a
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: guy that, like, what? Like, if you can have your
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: fifth outfielder, your sixth outfielder, whatever, be slightly above average
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: at the plate. Yeah, so that's what we're talking about.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: It's all to scale here, you know what I mean?
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: And so, like, you know, I believe he is a
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: valuable asset for the organization.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: So we just talked about how great all these players are.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: So does that mean the Tigers are winning the World
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Series next year?
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: No.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: What it means is they've got some quality young pieces,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: both the high-end guys, McGonigal and Clark, and some guys
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: who can help fill out some depth. Obviously, they have
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: a lot more to do to add to this roster
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: to be a playoff team, but they could be in
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: a lot worse shape as well. There's no denying that.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: And again, I think it's all to scale. Like, you know,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Lee is going to compete for, we've kind of gone
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: into sending order McGonigal, Clark, Valencia. So we're getting to
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: backup catcher territory. Lee, who's going to be in a
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: battle in some sort to, to, to be a starter
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: on the infield. And then, you know, you know, Callahan, Mal, Mal, Jerry,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: like these are guys going to be battling for essentially
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: major league depth or like high end call up, you know,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Toledo spots or whatever. So like, we're not saying like,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: all right, here's your starting lineup. Let's go win the
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: division now. You know what I mean? Uh, like, but again,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: it's all to scale that, you know, can you do
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: this little thing that's going to help the team when
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: maybe three or four games over the course of a
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: season and, you know, races, a lot of times come
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: down to three or four games, right? Like that's what
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: we're talking about here. Uh, and I guess we'll, we'll,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: we'll mention, obviously it's a very small sample size, uh,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: John Peck, uh, negative 0.1 B war 0.0 F war. Uh, he's, it's,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: it's amazing that he's had major league moments. Uh, another guy,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know, skipping triple a, uh, you know,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: I got to give him credit for his journey that
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: thus far, I do believe he is somebody who, uh, who,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: who needs some more seasoning and, and that's okay. There's
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong with needing more seasoning when, uh, when you
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: get your, uh, first major, major league call up in
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: somewhat of an unexpected way, really, you know, talk about
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: somebody who weren't necessarily talking about in this fashion. So, uh,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: We will see him again, but I don't believe he's
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: in the 26-man plans going into 2020.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost looks like he only played six games
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: in AAA or something. He has been kind of the
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: one guy who didn't fully take this in stride. He
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: still looked under control, even if he hasn't made maybe
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: plays in the field to the level you would have
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: liked to see. Something about him does kind of exude
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: calm You can feel good about him out on the field.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Hasn't had a ton of success at the plate. Or really,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: you know, as... Bill is such a great defender. Hasn't
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: totally shown up. um but again just like callahan like
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: amazing kind of that he got here to this point
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: peck was in big league camp but wasn't necessarily expected
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: to debut in the big leagues this year except hey
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: here he is got his feet wet i'm gonna come
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: to camp next year you know go into the offseason
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: with a clear idea of what he what he can
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: work on how he can be better And we'll see
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: what that looks like, the defensive profile plays. If Zach
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Short is still in the big leagues, John Peck is
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: going to have a chance to be in the big
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: leagues for several years to come in one way or another.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I'm curious what you guys think,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: you know, whether these guys have kind of matched the
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: profiles and the stat. And if you're a war guy,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: if you're not a war guy, you know, whether that,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: you know, whether that aligns with the eye test, you know?
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: And so, uh, they're going to see plenty of them
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: this week and we're going to see plenty of them
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: moving forward. And, uh, and again, high end and then
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: organizational pieces like these are the things that make your
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: organization go. Like both of them make your organization go.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Not everybody can be a superstar, right? You got to
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: have guys that can just kind of do small things
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: and pin and, you know, use a pun, you know,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: help you in a pinch.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: So, uh, so yeah, like it's, it has been cool
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: to kind of watch them and then see them grow. And, uh,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: and then we'll see what the tigers do with them
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: moving forward as well. Interesting off season ahead, but one
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: more week of baseball, we're going to see river Ryan.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: We're going to see Justin Verlander and, um, and then,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: you know, memories will be made moments will be had. And, uh,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: And it'll be the start of something special with River Ryan,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: or potentially, and the end of a truly special career
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: in Justin Verlander. So kind of an interesting bookend there,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: all things considered. But you guys can follow us on X,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: formerly known as Twitter, at Cody Stabenhagen. I am at
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Kieran underscore Steckley. Pod page at TigerTerritory underscore YouTube, Apple, Spotify.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: You guys know what to do. We appreciate all of you.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: So for Cody Stabenhagen, I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody have a
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: great day.