Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / Cubs mailbag: Is Jed Hoyer on the hot seat?

Transcript

Cubs mailbag: Is Jed Hoyer on the hot seat? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: It's hard to say, like, well, he's been terrible in
0:02
Speaker 1: twenty one and twenty two, fans aren't going to give
0:04
Speaker 1: him that pass. And I get it. You gotta he's
0:06
Speaker 1: got to wear it, I guess. And now it's goin
0:08
Speaker 1: to win. Welcome into north Side Territory, Foul Territory Networks
0:16
Speaker 1: Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney.
0:20
Speaker 1: We are your Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic
0:23
Speaker 1: and Patrick, we got a fan favorite, always the mail
0:27
Speaker 1: Bag episode. The fans seem to dig this one. We
0:30
Speaker 1: appreciate you guys sending in your questions via Twitter. Always
0:35
Speaker 1: fun and you know, listen, I think a little of
0:39
Speaker 1: it is fans have similar questions but when similar things
0:44
Speaker 1: are happening on the field. But I think that I
0:46
Speaker 1: think they're important topics and I think they're like, there's
0:49
Speaker 1: a reason they keep asking these questions like these these
0:53
Speaker 1: things matter and and and they are legitimate issues that
0:57
Speaker 1: face the team. Uh so why don't we get at it?
1:00
Speaker 1: Get right out of Patrick? I think we've heard a
1:02
Speaker 1: similar question to this first one before, but I think
1:05
Speaker 1: it's incredibly important.
1:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got Robert Barnard his Twitter handle is Cubs
1:14
Speaker 2: and Cards, interestingly enough, So take it away, Robert, Really
1:20
Speaker 2: only one question.
1:22
Speaker 3: Will Jed Hoyer be fired after.
1:27
Speaker 1: This?
1:28
Speaker 2: Let me clean that one up there. Will Jed be fired?
1:31
Speaker 2: I'll have to paraphrase some of this. Will Jed be
1:34
Speaker 2: fired after this year? Or be given one more chance
1:37
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five? Obviously there are some factors involved here.
1:42
Speaker 2: Did he try and just couldn't succeed with pickups prior
1:45
Speaker 2: to this year? And will he get support to do
1:48
Speaker 2: what's needed financially? I think it's funny hot of that
1:53
Speaker 2: how early in the season we were getting this question,
1:56
Speaker 2: and I think things have improve to a degree where
2:02
Speaker 2: I think the final work product of this year will
2:05
Speaker 2: be disappointing and underwhelming, but certainly not like.
2:11
Speaker 3: Disaster.
2:12
Speaker 2: I think instead of me just kind of repeating some
2:14
Speaker 2: of the stuff we've written and talked about before, I
2:17
Speaker 2: think side of you of like good insight and reporting
2:20
Speaker 2: on how kind of like this front office is already
2:24
Speaker 2: looking towards next year, which is sort of like an
2:28
Speaker 2: implicit acknowledgement of that they're going to kind of continue
2:32
Speaker 2: down this path, albeit under a lot more pressure next
2:36
Speaker 2: year than what they've faced in prior years of this regime.
2:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean the front office continues to make
2:46
Speaker 1: like tweaks and changes. We'll have reporting on that as
2:50
Speaker 1: we continue to dig in. But the reality is Jed
2:54
Speaker 1: Hoyer is acting like he's in charge for next season.
2:58
Speaker 1: Like when when you know you're you're making uh these
3:04
Speaker 1: types of decisions when you're the one in charge and
3:07
Speaker 1: and kind of shaping the front office, Uh that type
3:11
Speaker 1: of stuff, You're not able to make those types of
3:14
Speaker 1: moves that he's he's currently doing with this front office
3:17
Speaker 1: if you weren't in charge, right, if you weren't the
3:20
Speaker 1: one that's going to be running things uh next summer. Uh.
3:24
Speaker 1: So you know, Jed Jed Hoyer is coming back. It's
3:28
Speaker 1: and and I think I like there's a big factor
3:32
Speaker 1: here when we talk about, uh will he get the
3:35
Speaker 1: support to do what's needed financially. Listen, he's he's given
3:38
Speaker 1: a budget, he's told what he can do. Uh. My
3:42
Speaker 1: my dog obviously has some thoughts.
3:44
Speaker 2: I'm not a fan of ownership or the front office.
3:50
Speaker 1: Uh, but you know it's clear that you know, I
3:55
Speaker 1: think they know. I think ownership knows what they want, right.
4:01
Speaker 1: They they want to have someone like Jed Hoyer, who
4:05
Speaker 1: will take the budget that he's given, not fight about it,
4:10
Speaker 1: not not give a lot of pushback. This is what
4:12
Speaker 1: you have, this is how you how we're going to
4:15
Speaker 1: make it work? And and and go from there, right, like,
4:19
Speaker 1: figure out how to make this work? Can Jed Hoyer
4:22
Speaker 1: do that? I think the question if it doesn't work
4:27
Speaker 1: after this next season is who can do a better
4:32
Speaker 1: job of that. I don't think. I don't think we're
4:35
Speaker 1: suddenly gonna see Tom Rick gets say well, I guess
4:38
Speaker 1: it's time to act like Steve Cohen or well I
4:40
Speaker 1: think it's time to act like the La Dodgers. That
4:43
Speaker 1: will never happen. It's just not happening. So I think
4:48
Speaker 1: you you could see like Jed Hoyer could say, all right,
4:53
Speaker 1: well I guess I have to go spend on Juan Soto,
4:56
Speaker 1: But then you're not going to see many other moves
4:58
Speaker 1: and you're not going to see uh like it. And
5:02
Speaker 1: when I say many other moves, I mean he's going
5:05
Speaker 1: to be handcuffed for multiple other seasons because he has
5:08
Speaker 1: a budget of like two hundred and forty ish million,
5:13
Speaker 1: and if you have what is it going to be
5:16
Speaker 1: fifty million a year? How how else you fill out
5:21
Speaker 1: the roster? Right, Like, how many guys can you have
5:25
Speaker 1: at that number? It's just it's hard to do that
5:30
Speaker 1: when when the budget isn't the Mets or the Dodgers
5:32
Speaker 1: or the Yankees. So so, yes, should he be in
5:37
Speaker 1: the hot seat, Absolutely, because there are other teams. He's
5:40
Speaker 1: ninth in payroll, right, ninth or tenth in payroll. There
5:45
Speaker 1: are other teams doing better jobs. We just we talked
5:50
Speaker 1: about the Brewers last episode. There are other.
5:53
Speaker 3: Teams doing podcasts.
5:57
Speaker 1: Look at the Cleveland Guardians, look at look at the
6:01
Speaker 1: Tampa bay Rays, who are having a down season. We
6:04
Speaker 1: know this right, there are teams year in and year
6:07
Speaker 1: out that are able to compete at a lower cost.
6:10
Speaker 1: That's really what Tom Ricketts looks at. Listen to what
6:13
Speaker 1: he's said over the years, when when you start to
6:17
Speaker 1: bring up money, he pushes back and says, it's not
6:21
Speaker 1: just money. Yes, I think he does. He does want
6:25
Speaker 1: to kind of mix the two ideas, but not to
6:28
Speaker 1: the not to the extent that the Dodgers have done it.
6:32
Speaker 1: So when there's a part of this like did he
6:36
Speaker 1: try and just couldn't succeed with pickups prior to I mean,
6:40
Speaker 1: I think to a certain degree, there were some things
6:43
Speaker 1: that didn't, you know, come to fruition. I think that's
6:47
Speaker 1: true about every offseason and every front office. Yeah, so
6:51
Speaker 1: there wasn't anything that was like you look back and say,
6:54
Speaker 1: like if only this player would assigned with the Cubs,
6:57
Speaker 1: would be talking like there wasn't. They weren't about to
7:00
Speaker 1: sign let's say Corey seeger uh to two years ago.
7:04
Speaker 1: They weren't about to sign and these guys, you know,
7:08
Speaker 1: with with his injury issues and performance, maybe maybe it
7:11
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Like they weren't they weren't really like hot
7:14
Speaker 1: for Carlos Korea or or Xander Bogart's right, like they
7:20
Speaker 1: targeted Dansby Swanson. Uh, they like Trey Turner was headed
7:26
Speaker 1: to the Phillies like almost the whole time, right, Like
7:30
Speaker 1: these are the things that we could go back and
7:32
Speaker 1: forth on. But this is like I I don't think
7:35
Speaker 1: there's any big miss swing swing and miss. Uh. This
7:39
Speaker 1: is just the way they've looked at trying to build
7:42
Speaker 1: this team. I also think like he's generally and have
7:46
Speaker 1: said this before, I've written it before. I think you
7:49
Speaker 1: have to put him on the hot seat because of
7:51
Speaker 1: the record. But if you look at what he's done,
7:55
Speaker 1: there's no like glaring mistake where you're like, how could
7:58
Speaker 1: you do this? Like the mistakes are the margins, right,
8:02
Speaker 1: Tucker Barnhart, Ty Trey Mancini, Eric Hosmer, These sort of
8:07
Speaker 1: like small minuscule mistakes, like it's not a big deal.
8:11
Speaker 1: Those aren't Like those don't change the course of your franchise.
8:15
Speaker 1: You could say, like Ky Jackson, Ferris and Zire Hope
8:18
Speaker 1: look like really good prospects. Yeah, Michael Bush looks like
8:21
Speaker 1: a really good for his basement, you know what I mean?
8:24
Speaker 1: Uh So, So I think there's, uh, there's there's a
8:28
Speaker 1: lot of stuff like that. Like Dansby Swanson in June,
8:32
Speaker 1: we were talking about is this a disaster contract? And
8:34
Speaker 1: now he's gonna put up the same season that he
8:36
Speaker 1: pretty much always puts up, Like his three best war
8:39
Speaker 1: seasons are the last three seasons. So I I don't know.
8:45
Speaker 1: I I don't know. I think there's I think the
8:50
Speaker 1: bottom line is, yes, he needs to win. That is
8:54
Speaker 1: that is it. That is all that needs to happen.
8:57
Speaker 1: I don't think he's been an outright disaster. I don't
9:00
Speaker 1: think he's been a home run. I think he's been
9:03
Speaker 1: so far, it's been very middling, which is how you
9:06
Speaker 1: get a middling record a team that's just outside of
9:11
Speaker 1: the playoffs. Look, I mean just you know, on the
9:14
Speaker 1: fringes of the playoffs for the bat for the past
9:16
Speaker 1: two seasons. In my opinion, I think twenty one and
9:20
Speaker 1: twenty two are hard to really evaluate, right because he
9:24
Speaker 1: sold off in the middle of twenty one. Yeah, and
9:27
Speaker 1: it's like the talent drop off was so much that
9:31
Speaker 1: it's hard to say, like, well, he's been terrible in
9:33
Speaker 1: twenty one and twenty two. Fans aren't going to give
9:36
Speaker 1: him that pass. And I get it, you can't. It's
9:39
Speaker 1: on it's you gotta, you gotta. He's got to wear it,
9:42
Speaker 1: I guess. And now it's time to win, you know,
9:45
Speaker 1: now it's time to win. No more excuses, no, no
9:47
Speaker 1: free passes, nothing. Uh, I don't you know. I know
9:52
Speaker 1: that's not satisfactory.
9:55
Speaker 2: Well, I think you're right that he has been sort
9:57
Speaker 2: of the the good soldier and a company man.
10:00
Speaker 3: I think that goes long way.
10:03
Speaker 2: Internally, I think you can make a convincing case that
10:07
Speaker 2: the farm system is in a better place. Certain things
10:11
Speaker 2: have been modernized, the books are relatively clean. All these
10:16
Speaker 2: deals are pretty flexible. There are lots of long term
10:21
Speaker 2: pieces that have been acquired under his watch.
10:24
Speaker 3: I think it's just this goes back to, like, what
10:27
Speaker 3: do the Cubs want to be?
10:28
Speaker 2: Like, They're not as good as the Brewers or Guardians
10:31
Speaker 2: of playing that sort of game.
10:33
Speaker 1: They don't take years to set up exactly.
10:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and then they don't spend like the Dodgers,
10:41
Speaker 2: and the Cubs aren't cheap. I think it's just if
10:45
Speaker 2: you look at where they were in twenty nineteen, I
10:48
Speaker 2: believe they had the National League's highest payroll.
10:50
Speaker 3: It's sort of been kind of flat since then.
10:54
Speaker 2: And then you you're always gonna have the Yankees doing
10:57
Speaker 2: their thing. You have the Dodgers with this unbelievable TV
11:01
Speaker 2: deal and also just like kind of a amazing, kind
11:06
Speaker 2: of group of Hall of famers on a number of
11:09
Speaker 2: levels that are kind of getting it done there. But
11:13
Speaker 2: then you have teams like the Phillies whose owner said
11:18
Speaker 2: I want to win and will spend stupid money to
11:21
Speaker 2: make it happen. You have an ownership change in New
11:24
Speaker 2: York where the Mets want to compete toe to toe
11:28
Speaker 2: with the Yankees financially, which is something that had not
11:30
Speaker 2: been part of the landscape.
11:32
Speaker 3: There.
11:33
Speaker 2: You have the Atlanta Braves and their development in their
11:37
Speaker 2: new ballpark in whatever suburb that is. It's certainly not Atlanta,
11:43
Speaker 2: but they built, they built that up, and that is
11:45
Speaker 2: just printing money. You had the Padres with Peter Seidler
11:51
Speaker 2: before his passing of just totally blowing up the model that.
11:57
Speaker 3: Had been in place in San Diego.
12:01
Speaker 2: And so the Texas Rangers, they kind of had a
12:04
Speaker 2: checkbook World Series trophy. They just said, well, we have
12:07
Speaker 2: all this other stuff going on, but we want to
12:10
Speaker 2: compete now, and they spent to speed.
12:13
Speaker 3: Up that whole process.
12:15
Speaker 2: And so you go from being like, oh, this should
12:19
Speaker 2: be like a top five, top three payroll to where
12:25
Speaker 2: these other teams have caught up to or in some
12:28
Speaker 2: cases like past the cups just on the financial end.
12:31
Speaker 2: And so that's where I think a lot of this
12:35
Speaker 2: is tied up and it's hard to separate some of
12:37
Speaker 2: these ideas.
12:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that comes back to ownership. Is ownership willing
12:43
Speaker 1: to get back into the top five realm, I don't
12:47
Speaker 1: know if that's happening. I don't expect that for next summer. So,
12:52
Speaker 1: you know, but there's a lot of money coming off
12:55
Speaker 1: the books, which ties into our next next question. Patrick,
13:00
Speaker 1: I know you talked to Scott Boris in LA This
13:06
Speaker 1: and I agree with this is from David Pillar. Cody's
13:10
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger's status determines the off season? So is he
13:13
Speaker 1: coming back? Listen? Does it determine the off season? I don't.
13:20
Speaker 1: I don't know if I completely agree with that. Like,
13:24
Speaker 1: I don't think it's as black and white as that.
13:26
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's pretty significant though. It's
13:29
Speaker 1: nearly thirty million dollars, And could you know that is
13:33
Speaker 1: either added or taken away from the payroll from a
13:37
Speaker 1: player that I think is very good in so many
13:42
Speaker 1: different ways, and and free agency is weird, and thirty
13:47
Speaker 1: million dollars is thirty million dollars? But can you upgrade
13:51
Speaker 1: that player would be my question? Or that performance whatever
13:55
Speaker 1: it is with that money That Craig Council likes to
14:01
Speaker 1: say it's just about finding wins, So maybe it's not
14:03
Speaker 1: that player exactly, But can you find that value or
14:07
Speaker 1: upgrade that value with thirty million dollars? I think that
14:12
Speaker 1: would be my question, and I I've thought about it
14:15
Speaker 1: a lot. I don't think it completely crushes the Cubs.
14:19
Speaker 1: If he comes back, I think it becomes your off
14:21
Speaker 1: season becomes very it becomes more interesting. If he doesn't
14:26
Speaker 1: come back, you can do more things, you can kind
14:29
Speaker 1: of be more creative, and I think this off season
14:32
Speaker 1: has to be about aggression and creativity.
14:35
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the answer is we don't know if
14:38
Speaker 3: he's going to come back or not.
14:39
Speaker 2: I'm going to take Cody at his word when he
14:41
Speaker 2: says I told Scott that I don't want to talk
14:45
Speaker 2: about this in depth until after the season. Scott Boris
14:53
Speaker 2: told me, Well, when I meet with Cody at Dodger Stadium,
14:57
Speaker 2: we don't talk about business.
14:58
Speaker 3: We talk more about how he's doing, how he's playing.
15:02
Speaker 3: And I do think there's.
15:03
Speaker 2: A degree of truth to that that Scott is a
15:06
Speaker 2: baseball junkie.
15:07
Speaker 3: I mean, he's at a game almost.
15:09
Speaker 2: Every night in southern California between Anaheim, San Diego and
15:13
Speaker 2: Dodger Stadium, and he does love talking ball.
15:18
Speaker 3: I think.
15:20
Speaker 2: Scott Farmer's Almanac talking about if it doesn't rain, the
15:24
Speaker 2: crops don't grow as part of a narrative that could
15:30
Speaker 2: be presented of like if Cody Bellinger didn't play eighty
15:33
Speaker 2: one games at Wrigley field, his numbers would look a
15:35
Speaker 2: lot different. I think if Wrigley played differently, we already
15:39
Speaker 2: would have known that Cody had planned.
15:42
Speaker 3: To opt out.
15:44
Speaker 2: The whole idea of that contract was too opt out
15:47
Speaker 2: and try and get a bigger deal. Scott's default setting
15:52
Speaker 2: is taking his clients to the open market to determine
15:56
Speaker 2: their value.
16:00
Speaker 3: I do think.
16:00
Speaker 2: I look at Matt Chapman's deal with the Giants, which
16:04
Speaker 2: was a basically a free agent deal in terms of
16:09
Speaker 2: the pricing and the structure, like it's a huge score
16:13
Speaker 2: for Chapman and Boris. I don't know if that will
16:15
Speaker 2: kind of embolden Scott to be like, this is kind
16:18
Speaker 2: of the appetite is coming back after a winter where
16:24
Speaker 2: the baseball industry was fairly cautious outside of a couple
16:28
Speaker 2: huge deals, And so that's what I'm saying. I don't know,
16:34
Speaker 2: but I think Scott would want that to happen. I
16:38
Speaker 2: think Cody does enjoy Chicago. He knows he hasn't had
16:43
Speaker 2: that huge season, but at least he has another year
16:46
Speaker 2: away from that really bad ending with the Dodgers, which
16:50
Speaker 2: would help his case. And like you said, the Cups
16:54
Speaker 2: are good with this sort of either way. I mean,
16:57
Speaker 2: if he comes back, I know he's a really good player.
17:01
Speaker 2: It's only one year. They like having him round. I
17:04
Speaker 2: don't think it's that hard to imagine him putting up
17:07
Speaker 2: at least three war and be basically worth almost thirty
17:12
Speaker 2: million dollars. I don't think it's an issue that way.
17:14
Speaker 2: But if he does, not doubt. They're covered at center
17:17
Speaker 2: field with PCA, they're covered in right field with SAA,
17:20
Speaker 2: though clearly that's a defensive downgrade, and they trust Michael
17:24
Speaker 2: Bush to be a first baseman. So where at this
17:28
Speaker 2: time last year was like, Wow, the Cubs had all
17:29
Speaker 2: these holes and like what are they going to do?
17:31
Speaker 2: And like without Code. Now it's like I think they'd
17:34
Speaker 2: be fine with him leaving and then they have that
17:39
Speaker 2: extra money to play with or if he does come back,
17:41
Speaker 2: Like they're in the business of finding good players right,
17:44
Speaker 2: and that he is one of those guys who you
17:48
Speaker 2: never know, in like another contract year, could have that
17:51
Speaker 2: like five to six war MVP caliber season that does
17:55
Speaker 2: push them into the playoffs.
17:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt he can put
17:59
Speaker 1: up big number like he It's just it's such a
18:03
Speaker 1: it's been so up and down for him over the
18:05
Speaker 1: course of his career. That and I think they have
18:09
Speaker 1: a very specific need in needing power that maybe you
18:13
Speaker 1: you'd like to have that money freed up and go
18:16
Speaker 1: after someone else, But it's also not guaranteed that you
18:18
Speaker 1: fill that spot with anyone better. So it's going to
18:21
Speaker 1: be an interesting off season, that's for sure.
18:24
Speaker 3: Side of it. I like this one as sort of a.
18:28
Speaker 2: Counterpoint, another way to think about where things are headed.
18:32
Speaker 2: This is from staple Gunner at mass dot gov. The
18:37
Speaker 2: Cubs are about to have their eighth winning season in
18:42
Speaker 2: ten years. All the important talent is back next year.
18:45
Speaker 2: There's a ton of young and tradable talent as well
18:49
Speaker 2: as payroll space. They are set up for a long
18:52
Speaker 2: window of contention. Why all the gloom?
18:56
Speaker 1: Oh man, wow, I was not expected for you?
19:00
Speaker 3: Many are.
19:03
Speaker 1: Of all the questions we get. I do appreciate some
19:07
Speaker 1: optimism because fans generally do like to and it's and
19:13
Speaker 1: this is natural, but it's like it's so easy say, like, well,
19:17
Speaker 1: they're not in the playoffs. They're bad. And I I
19:21
Speaker 1: like sometimes I watching games and seeing plays and seeing
19:25
Speaker 1: things happen. I I I let the negativity creep in,
19:28
Speaker 1: but pull away for a moment. And it's so there's
19:31
Speaker 1: so much nuance to all of this. And and I
19:33
Speaker 1: talk about this so much about how one one little
19:36
Speaker 1: thing here or there in a few more wings behind
19:40
Speaker 1: in May and June, and we're having different conversations right now.
19:43
Speaker 1: Uh So, So baseball is a very nuanced sport where
19:50
Speaker 1: the slightest thing, uh can can change the way you
19:53
Speaker 1: look at things. And I would point to uh Cleveland
19:58
Speaker 1: from last year to this year to to those feeling
20:00
Speaker 1: super negative right now. I would point to Detroit from
20:03
Speaker 1: a month ago to now to to those like, how
20:09
Speaker 1: how do they start winning? How do baseball is? Weird?
20:12
Speaker 1: Things happen? It did not happen for the Cubs this year.
20:15
Speaker 1: It looked like it was about to during that road
20:19
Speaker 1: But there are two road trips ago right when when
20:21
Speaker 1: they just were on fire and it didn't come together.
20:25
Speaker 1: And that's not to say like, hey, that that that's
20:28
Speaker 1: the only moment that matters. I don't. Well, first of all,
20:32
Speaker 1: their their eighth winning season. There's ten games left. I'm
20:36
Speaker 1: not there's seventy six, seventy seven and seventy five seventy seventy.
20:41
Speaker 3: Five games five and we're recording.
20:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. I would expect them to, yes, have
20:48
Speaker 1: another winning season this year. I believe that will happen.
20:52
Speaker 1: It's not guaranteed. They could easily go four and six
20:56
Speaker 1: in the last ten, but yes, I I think I
21:02
Speaker 1: think the default for people when things aren't going well
21:05
Speaker 1: in gloom. That's why you're doom and gloob that's where
21:08
Speaker 1: you're hearing doom in globe. And and when I think
21:10
Speaker 1: if you listen to Patrick and I, I don't think
21:12
Speaker 1: we're all doom and gloom. I think we're very much
21:14
Speaker 1: like listen, the Cubs need to get better. They need
21:17
Speaker 1: to make the playoffs. That's all we're saying. I don't
21:21
Speaker 1: think they're that far off. Like we've talked a lot
21:24
Speaker 1: about in various episodes about the good things that Jed
21:28
Speaker 1: Hoyer has done. I just talked about some of those things.
21:32
Speaker 1: I I I think I agree with this the premise
21:37
Speaker 1: that a staple gunner is getting at here in general.
21:41
Speaker 1: UH like that they they have the pieces and they're
21:46
Speaker 1: set up this offseason to have to build a really
21:49
Speaker 1: good team. Now, now the questions are going to be, well,
21:53
Speaker 1: where do these players play? Where do where does the
21:55
Speaker 1: talent play? Where where? How do you upgrade they're they're stuck.
22:00
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that. I just don't. I think
22:05
Speaker 1: there are so many different ways that you can get better,
22:08
Speaker 1: and some of them may like maybe a little drastic,
22:12
Speaker 1: some of them may be on the margins. I think
22:17
Speaker 1: catcher is the obvious spot, and I think the past
22:20
Speaker 1: two weeks of Migulamaya kind of going back down to
22:22
Speaker 1: earth just to reinf that. I don't think he's a
22:26
Speaker 1: bad player. I don't think the first two and a
22:29
Speaker 1: half months are representative of who he was as a player.
22:32
Speaker 1: I think the past two ish months are kind of
22:36
Speaker 1: representative of who he is as a player, which is
22:38
Speaker 1: like pretty average on offense, really trusted by his pitching staff.
22:44
Speaker 1: But you could upgrade there. Now, how they upgrade is
22:49
Speaker 1: going to be the question because it's going to be
22:51
Speaker 1: really hard to get significant upgrade if the past two
22:54
Speaker 1: plus months are real for Migalamaya, right, So it just
22:59
Speaker 1: be having a nice sambo and avoiding those first two months.
23:03
Speaker 1: I think uh PCA having these last two months is
23:07
Speaker 1: huge for how they look at twenty twenty five. So yeah,
23:12
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree it shouldn't be all doom and gloom.
23:15
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be. They're so far away from contention. And
23:20
Speaker 1: when we add I think the question is how do
23:24
Speaker 1: they improve this team? And Patrick and I have talked
23:26
Speaker 1: about a lot of different things, but there's a simple
23:29
Speaker 1: one bullpen. There's are what Patrick and I are going
23:33
Speaker 1: to hammer probably this offseason. Just add another sure thing
23:37
Speaker 1: to the rotation to make things feel safe. You know,
23:41
Speaker 1: these young guys are pushed down a spot and then
23:45
Speaker 1: and then get creative with the position players and you know,
23:49
Speaker 1: we'll talk about this in future episodes. I think Ian
23:52
Speaker 1: Happ is incredibly undervalued by the fan base. I think
23:58
Speaker 1: you have to think outside the bot and improving in areas.
24:02
Speaker 1: And I really like Nico Horner as a player, and
24:06
Speaker 1: I think you have to consider what's the you know,
24:09
Speaker 1: push and pull there of if you if you make
24:14
Speaker 1: a move there, you are downgrading defensively, you are That's
24:18
Speaker 1: the reality. Because he's the best second basement I've seen
24:20
Speaker 1: in right now, he makes with every game that I
24:23
Speaker 1: watch him more convinced of it. I just don't know.
24:26
Speaker 1: And this is we're going back to Greg Council. You
24:28
Speaker 1: got to put together the wins, right That defense is
24:30
Speaker 1: valuable he's a valuable player on defense. So are you
24:34
Speaker 1: gonna upgrade enough on offense that it outweighs that? And
24:37
Speaker 1: that would be the question that they're gonna have to answer,
24:39
Speaker 1: because outside and kept unless you're getting bold here and
24:45
Speaker 1: doing something crazy. And you know, when I say crazy,
24:48
Speaker 1: I don't mean stupid. I just mean, like, you know,
24:51
Speaker 1: really aggressive. Those are the two obvious spots that there
24:54
Speaker 1: are other ways. There are other ways. Maybe maybe they
24:57
Speaker 1: want to upgrade Michael Bush. Maybe they want to maybe
25:00
Speaker 1: they can get some no trade clauses waved. I don't know.
25:05
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think outside the box. And then
25:06
Speaker 1: you have DH and the Cody Bellinger question, which we
25:09
Speaker 1: just talked about. So Patrick, are you all doom and gloom?
25:14
Speaker 2: You know, I actually appreciate this question because I do
25:17
Speaker 2: think we try to think about things from.
25:21
Speaker 3: A wide range of viewpoints.
25:24
Speaker 2: Now, certain people may laugh when they hear us say that,
25:31
Speaker 2: I honest think there are times, and I'll see this
25:33
Speaker 2: in our comments section on the Athletic of that we're
25:35
Speaker 2: too soft on the Cubs, you know, And I think
25:38
Speaker 2: that's something like.
25:39
Speaker 3: Why aren't we hammering them non stop?
25:44
Speaker 2: I do try to like understand where people are coming from.
25:48
Speaker 3: That takes time.
25:49
Speaker 2: Like I will acknowledge I wasn't always like great at that,
25:53
Speaker 2: but I have, you know, working with you and are
25:55
Speaker 2: the colleagues at the Athletic of trying to like think about.
25:58
Speaker 3: The industry and the game in different ways.
26:03
Speaker 2: I do think all of the things you just said
26:05
Speaker 2: side of are accurate in terms of like building blocks
26:08
Speaker 2: pieces in place. I think if we were dooming gloom,
26:12
Speaker 2: we would have been saying fire Jed Hoyer a long
26:15
Speaker 2: time ago. I think we've been pretty measured and balanced
26:19
Speaker 2: in that regard. And then I you know, there's a
26:22
Speaker 2: wide range of voices and opinions and outlets out there
26:29
Speaker 2: that you know, people have choices that you.
26:31
Speaker 3: Know, and I think there are.
26:35
Speaker 2: Very optimistic views of the Cubs that are presented at times.
26:39
Speaker 2: And then I think, also, like what I try to
26:44
Speaker 2: think of someone who I had worked with early in
26:47
Speaker 2: my career, you know, he viewed coverage as what is
26:51
Speaker 2: and he was as a fan but also as a
26:53
Speaker 2: media executive of like what is my team doing right
26:57
Speaker 2: now today to help them win a championship? And I
27:03
Speaker 2: think that's the standard that you have to hold them too,
27:06
Speaker 2: because that's how these people show up to work thinking
27:09
Speaker 2: like the people that run these teams, the people that
27:11
Speaker 2: are competing on the field, the coaches in the dugout.
27:15
Speaker 3: They all want to win.
27:17
Speaker 2: And to be honest, like, it's not like we're covering
27:20
Speaker 2: the Bill Russell Celtics here. It's not like we're you know,
27:25
Speaker 2: Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier with Edmonton Oilers, or like
27:28
Speaker 2: Joe Montana and the forty nine Ers in the eighties.
27:31
Speaker 2: Like this team's won one World Series since nineteen oh eight.
27:35
Speaker 2: So there are times when like they're just not going
27:38
Speaker 2: to get the benefit of the doubt, you know. And
27:42
Speaker 2: I think when you look at yes, there is payroll space,
27:47
Speaker 2: but let's be honest, our Cups fan is going to
27:50
Speaker 2: be like happy when they show up to when.
27:55
Speaker 3: They show up to MESA next offseason one.
27:58
Speaker 2: So it was almost certainly playing for one of the
28:00
Speaker 2: other twenty nine teams. Like, yes, the farm system's good,
28:04
Speaker 2: but like, how much impact has it delivered this year
28:09
Speaker 2: outside of.
28:10
Speaker 3: PCA and some moments from a Porter Hodge whatever.
28:14
Speaker 2: I just think, like we try to be realistic, we
28:18
Speaker 2: don't always succeed in terms of like removing all emotion
28:24
Speaker 2: and sort of like sarcasm from the but like we
28:29
Speaker 2: do try to present things down the middle with analysis,
28:34
Speaker 2: with insight, with historical perspective and institutional knowledge and.
28:39
Speaker 3: Let you decide.
28:40
Speaker 2: And I think we also try to not get too personal, right, Like,
28:47
Speaker 2: I think there are a lot of things is said
28:49
Speaker 2: in the press box that we just sort of you know,
28:52
Speaker 2: we as a group, you know, we'll never make it
28:54
Speaker 2: towards prank because it's just not fair that there is
28:57
Speaker 2: a even it may not seem like it at time,
29:00
Speaker 2: there is an enormous filtering process that goes through by
29:03
Speaker 2: the time you listen to this podcast or read our
29:08
Speaker 2: work on the athletic.
29:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, And to be fair to Staple Gunner, I'm not
29:12
Speaker 1: sure if he was talking about us when he said
29:15
Speaker 1: wild the Gloom. My assumption is he's talking about the
29:18
Speaker 1: fans who are and I explain, like my explanation to
29:21
Speaker 1: that is fans are very reactive and they have every
29:24
Speaker 1: right to be and they have. This team has not
29:26
Speaker 1: made the playoffs in a full season since twenty eighteen,
29:30
Speaker 1: haven't won a playoff game since twenty seventeen, Right, so
29:34
Speaker 1: I get I get the negativity, Like it's completely fair,
29:37
Speaker 1: and that's how fans, fans, it's our job to be,
29:40
Speaker 1: you know, like to take it down a notch and
29:42
Speaker 1: to have duance. Let let fans be reactive and complain.
29:46
Speaker 1: I perfectly understand that. Here's a question from George dak Darko.
29:52
Speaker 1: What are the plans for Shaw, Matt Shaw, Owen, Casey,
29:56
Speaker 1: Kevin ol Contra. Outfield is clearly not going in anywhere?
30:00
Speaker 1: He mentions Alexander Canario too. I wouldn't. I would. Yeah,
30:06
Speaker 1: outfield is clearly not going anywhere. But what's to say
30:10
Speaker 1: any of those guys better? And what's to say Shaw
30:14
Speaker 1: isn't better than Swanson or Partis or even Horner. Uh
30:18
Speaker 1: I feel like there are a lot of software blocks. Listen,
30:20
Speaker 1: I I think you're getting a little like, Yes, what's
30:22
Speaker 1: to say any of these guys aren't better than anyone? Sure?
30:26
Speaker 1: I think you when when when when you when you
30:30
Speaker 1: start talking about this, I think you're underrating all these players.
30:34
Speaker 1: It is really hard to be as good as Danesby Swanson,
30:38
Speaker 1: to be as good as he's apparatus paradis. It's unfair
30:42
Speaker 1: to evaluate him on the month month plus he's been
30:44
Speaker 1: with the Cubs. He has put up really good seasons
30:48
Speaker 1: for the for this is will be his third year
30:50
Speaker 1: in a row of three plus war Uh, maybe more
30:53
Speaker 1: than that, he's not as bad defensively as he's shown.
30:56
Speaker 1: He's not as bad offensively, which has just kind of
30:59
Speaker 1: been average interest since he's shown up. Uh, he's a
31:02
Speaker 1: better player than what he's showed. Nico Horner is putting
31:05
Speaker 1: together another These are like four win players that we're
31:07
Speaker 1: all talking about, so like they're really hard to develop
31:12
Speaker 1: a four win player. That that said, I think you're
31:17
Speaker 1: going to see all of those guys next year unless
31:19
Speaker 1: they're traded. So in my opinion, you're going to see
31:23
Speaker 1: all of those guys in the big leagues at some point,
31:26
Speaker 1: maybe not probably not opening Day. And I think saw
31:30
Speaker 1: my opinion is Shaw's the best of that of those
31:33
Speaker 1: guys that he mentioned who he mentioned Shaw, Casey l Contra, right,
31:37
Speaker 1: I think Shaw's the best of that group in my opinion.
31:41
Speaker 1: I don't think he has a chance to play shortstop
31:44
Speaker 1: like I think Dansby Swanson is probably exponentially better than
31:49
Speaker 1: him defensively, And I think that needs to really be
31:53
Speaker 1: understood how good Dansby Swanson is when he's having a
31:58
Speaker 1: basically a league average offense. Season is going to be
32:00
Speaker 1: worth four wins because he's elite defensively, and the same
32:04
Speaker 1: should be said about Nico Horner and not as important
32:07
Speaker 1: of a position, but nearly as important. It's those those
32:11
Speaker 1: two guys are just valuable, and I think we can't
32:13
Speaker 1: just look at this offensively. Matt Shaw is important though,
32:17
Speaker 1: and you need it. I think he's important to the
32:19
Speaker 1: future of this team because of his bat.
32:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think part of this season why it was
32:26
Speaker 2: a disappointment that there wasn't more of that push internally
32:30
Speaker 2: to kind of displace And I guess there's more on
32:33
Speaker 2: the pitching side, like why Kyle Hendricks they ran him
32:37
Speaker 2: out so often this year, So maybe it's not as
32:40
Speaker 2: fair on the position player side, like it's not like, oh,
32:44
Speaker 2: in case he's gonna displace Cody Bellinger. But I do think,
32:48
Speaker 2: like we saw this year in prior years, just the
32:53
Speaker 2: enormous gap between Triple A and the majors that everyone
32:56
Speaker 2: says is only getting bigger. So I wouldn't really count
32:59
Speaker 2: on like these guys. I'd love to I'm a Cubs
33:03
Speaker 2: fan or Cubs executive. I'd love to see them like
33:06
Speaker 2: pop up next year and make a difference and learn
33:09
Speaker 2: and then maybe just go back to Iowa and yeah,
33:12
Speaker 2: there's maybe we watched these players too much. It's kind
33:17
Speaker 2: of how baseball works.
33:18
Speaker 3: It's a regional game, same group over and over that
33:21
Speaker 3: you kind.
33:22
Speaker 2: Of start to see the deficiencies more than the player's strengths.
33:26
Speaker 3: But like you know, Dansby.
33:30
Speaker 2: Swans had got paid a huge amount of money after
33:33
Speaker 2: winning a World Series with the Braves at a premium
33:38
Speaker 2: position like exceptional talent. I mean, Paradase was identified by
33:44
Speaker 2: the Tigers, Rays, and Cups three very different front offices
33:49
Speaker 2: at three different places of like, well, that guy's got
33:52
Speaker 2: something and that we need or could really use or
33:57
Speaker 2: could help him get to that place like a young
34:00
Speaker 2: interesting player totally fits. And you know, Nico, I think
34:06
Speaker 2: maybe this year, like is he gonna be a guy
34:08
Speaker 2: that hits like twenty twenty five home runs?
34:10
Speaker 3: You know, probably not.
34:12
Speaker 2: Is he a fantastic defender, a great base runner, a leader,
34:21
Speaker 2: someone who is like obsessed with baseball and like extremely intelligent,
34:27
Speaker 2: Yes to all of those things. And so for me,
34:31
Speaker 2: I think it's hard to like subtract him from the
34:35
Speaker 2: mix and think you're gonna wind up that much better.
34:39
Speaker 3: On the other side, because in part.
34:41
Speaker 2: Because of how the industry values those guys, right, like
34:44
Speaker 2: if he's not like a monster offensively, Like, what is
34:48
Speaker 2: a team gonna give up.
34:50
Speaker 3: In a deal?
34:51
Speaker 2: I think the Cubs are certainly going to explore all
34:55
Speaker 2: those avenues as well.
34:57
Speaker 3: They should, but I think it's hard.
35:00
Speaker 2: I think it always sounds better in theory to start
35:03
Speaker 2: dealing guys away and you know, getting some awesome other
35:07
Speaker 2: player and then you've got young guys to backfill. Like
35:11
Speaker 2: That's just usually not how it works, particularly in Chicago.
35:15
Speaker 2: And I think that's a good one, good transition to
35:17
Speaker 2: wrap up here, Sade from our guy bullpen or our
35:22
Speaker 2: guy our a woman who knows bullpen genius at Cooch
35:25
Speaker 2: seven to one, seven to one love this idea.
35:30
Speaker 3: Should the Cubs target the Brewers manager again this offseason?
35:35
Speaker 3: To the microphone after.
35:36
Speaker 1: That, I think just after every season when when the
35:40
Speaker 1: Cubs lose to the part, just hire their manager. That's
35:45
Speaker 1: that's the solution. Uh, that's a good one. That's that's
35:49
Speaker 1: a funny one to end with. Uh yeah, I the Brewers.
35:54
Speaker 1: Yet again, this is not a this is not a
35:56
Speaker 1: Milwaukee podcast, but it seems like it all all roads
35:59
Speaker 1: to lead to American Family Insurance Field. Yes, yes, all right,
36:05
Speaker 1: thanks for the levity. There to end it, Pat Murphy
36:08
Speaker 1: probably Manager of the year, right, like I think he's
36:12
Speaker 1: gonna win that, and Council never has, am I right?
36:16
Speaker 1: He never won it, He's never won it. There's always
36:19
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five Patrick, all right, I love the mail bag.
36:26
Speaker 1: I think Patrick enjoys it too. Sure, you guys should
36:29
Speaker 1: always bring it with the questions. We appreciate you interacting.
36:32
Speaker 1: This shows for you, so we're glad to have you
36:35
Speaker 1: all as a part of it. Thanks so much for listening.
36:38
Speaker 1: Make sure to rate review, subscribe to north Side Territory,
36:44
Speaker 1: and make sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel and
36:46
Speaker 1: subscribe to The Athletic where you can read Patrick in
36:48
Speaker 1: my work. We truly appreciate all the listeners. We appreciate
36:52
Speaker 1: all the people behind the scenes putting this podcast together,
36:55
Speaker 1: always grinding through and putting this stuff up whenever we
36:59
Speaker 1: come out with new episodes. Thanks so much for listening
37:02
Speaker 1: to everyone. We'll be back at it next week. Take care,