Latest / The Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast / Episode 32 | Are These Tools in your Toolbox? Soil Sampling & VRT
Transcript
- Episode 32 | Are These Tools in your Toolbox? Soil Sampling & VRT 00:00:06:13 - 00:00:36:24 Todd Gleason This is the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast, episode 32. I'm University of Illinois extension’s Todd Gleason. Are these tools in your toolbox? Soil sampling and variable rate technology. We're joined by Dennis Bowman from University of Illinois Extension to talk a little bit about variable rate technology and its application on the farm. I caught up with Dennis and asked him what it was he's been doing for extension over the years, and how that's incorporated into his work. 00:00:36:26 - 00:01:07:00 Dennis Bowman I've been in extension for 39.5 years. Since the mid 1990s, I've been working on the developing area of precision ag with GPS. And how that has been added to our, our tool set and using yield monitors and variable rate and then, on into the use of drones and aerial imagery in field crop production. 00:01:07:03 - 00:01:10:29 Todd Gleason You know, what is VRT or variable rate technology. 00:01:11:01 - 00:01:38:21 Dennis Bowman So that is using, some of the new technology and computer controls on our fertilizer applicators or sprayers or planters. So that they can change the rate of the input that's being applied to the field. And so you tie that with a GPS system and a prescription map, and then, through some method, you've decided you need to change the inputs, for different parts of the field. 00:01:38:23 - 00:02:08:05 Dennis Bowman And so the first place we started pretty much was with, fertilizer for phosphorus and potassium. So using soil test information, we created maps of the field as to where the high levels were and the low levels were. And then we could create, prescription maps, that we could put into our, the computers, our controllers on our, tractors and implements, that would automatically adjust the rate as you moved across the field. 00:02:08:07 - 00:02:13:16 Dennis Bowman Using the GPS signal to tell you where you were and what the right rate was in that spot. 00:02:13:23 - 00:02:17:27 Todd Gleason Are you conducting or have you been conducting research in this area? 00:02:17:27 - 00:02:30:12 Dennis Bowman Yes. Early on I worked, especially with some variable rate nitrogen work, and then also worked with a few other people on, phosphorus and potassium projects as well. 00:02:30:15 - 00:02:35:00 Todd Gleason How does, soil type, maybe topography impact VRT? 00:02:35:03 - 00:03:01:10 Dennis Bowman So as we're trying to, we need to come up with a way to, to make these prescription maps. And so we've got to understand what are some of the underlying characteristics of the field are. And so we can use soil type information, the topography of the field, the soil test information, to try to figure out where that variability is and then make the decision about how that may affect what kind of rates we want to put in there. 00:03:01:15 - 00:03:31:29 Dennis Bowman So if it's, if there's a lot of variation in soil type in a field and you've got some really poor soil types, that may not respond to high plant populations, we can adjust, seeding rates down in those areas of the fields. Where you don't have as much, potential. Potential, possibly. So we, we can look at those kind of things and we, will look at as a base generally for fertility recommendations. 00:03:31:29 - 00:04:06:27 Dennis Bowman We try to start with a grid sample, the two and a half acre grids to get a good idea of what's going on in the field. There's some debate in the industry about using grid samples versus, samples that are designed by soil type and topography. My my preference is to start with a basic grid sample, to try to find, areas that are, that are low, because sometimes, as we've, progressed in agriculture, our fields have gotten larger. 00:04:06:27 - 00:04:35:21 Dennis Bowman And that means that we've taken, farmsteads out of production, out of, buildings and put them back into field space, taken barn lots and incorporated those into fields, combined field smaller fields into bigger fields. And that history sometimes brings a legacy with it, with the nutrient availability in those fields. So finding those spots that are kind of manmade or induced, is something you can do with a good grid sample. 00:04:35:23 - 00:05:01:13 Dennis Bowman And then, as we look go farther into the area, we can start looking at the soil types and the topography to create it, create zones in the field. So you hear this management zone concept as we're trying to develop, variable rate applications. And so that that helps us get a, more accurate representation of the, the what's happening in the field. 00:05:01:15 - 00:05:19:26 Dennis Bowman But we need that, that grid to start things off, and then we can build these zones, that will aggregate the data in the field. And so we can make management recommendations and changes using our variable rate technology, to do that. So there's, there's, some benefits to doing that. 00:05:19:28 - 00:05:28:12 Todd Gleason To this point, we've talked about agronomic types of functions, meaning aimed at profit, relatively speaking. 00:05:28:15 - 00:05:40:05 Todd Gleason Are there ancillary functions of this that would impact water quality and soil health? And then the follow up question is, can you actually target it and have a different view of what VRT does. 00:05:40:07 - 00:05:50:05 Dennis Bowman So we talking with fertility, we talk a lot about the four Rs and making sure we've got the right rate in the in the right place. 00:05:50:07 - 00:06:09:09 Dennis Bowman And so that's a lot of what variable rate does, picking out those areas where you don't need to be applying a lot of fertilizer because you already have or it's it's naturally there. And not putting, a full rate on those areas. So doing a more accurate job of applying the nutrients often results in applying less nutrients. 00:06:09:09 - 00:06:21:25 Dennis Bowman Not always. But, over time, that's one of our goals, is to not put out excess nutrients that that we don't need in certain areas. And so that that pay that comes back in the area of nutrient loss. 00:06:21:25 - 00:06:25:20 Todd Gleason What are the next things coming down the pipeline in research? 00:06:25:20 - 00:06:44:03 Dennis Bowman So we're looking at, in addition to varying the rate to doing, a more accurate job of placement, I think that's a lot of what, some of the newer research is, is, is how we, apply that, and where we put those nutrients and more in relation to where the plant's going to be. 00:06:44:05 - 00:06:53:20 Dennis Bowman And so how we incorporate some of that placement technology with the variable rate technology, is, is an area that I think, folks are going to be looking into. 00:06:53:22 - 00:06:58:24 Todd Gleason Any advice for farmers interested in adopting VRT for fertilizer applications? 00:06:58:27 - 00:07:11:29 Dennis Bowman Well, it's one of the easiest things to do because most of the times we're actually, hiring, outside groups that have the have already invested in the technology to do some of those applications for us. 00:07:12:01 - 00:07:35:10 Dennis Bowman So if when in the area of precision farming, it's often the easiest, place to get started. Again, having a good set of soil tests to start with, is probably a good key. And then communicating with your, agronomists, about what your goals are and what they can do and how they do their analysis. 00:07:35:13 - 00:07:38:13 Dennis Bowman Understanding how that analysis and how those maps are going to be made. 00:07:38:17 - 00:07:58:25 Todd Gleason That's Dennis Bowman, he's with the University of Illinois Extension and located here on the Urbana-Champaign campus of the U of I at Southern Illinois University, assistant professor of soil Management and cropping systems Amir Super has been doing some VRT research in Carbondale. I asked him to tell me a little bit about what he's been up to. 00:07:59:01 - 00:08:00:18 Amir Sadeghpour Here at SIU, 00:08:00:20 - 00:08:37:11 Amir Sadeghpour My position mainly requires me to conduct research and also to teach. I teach most of the upper level course related to soil at SIU. My research goal is to improve farm profitability and reduce environmental footprint. And we, have that in mind. Most of my research is mostly related to integrity that cropping systems and nutrient management and how I have designing better cropping systems and improving condition management can impact soil health. 00:08:37:13 - 00:08:55:15 Amir Sadeghpour I'm very interested in cover crops, but their management, how they fit within our cropping systems to improve nutrient cycling and also soil health and without impacting, farm economics. And also I'm very interested in precision nutrient management, especially nitrogen management and corn. 00:08:55:17 - 00:09:03:04 Todd Gleason Have you used that kind of management or the variable rate technology in some of your integrated cropping systems? 00:09:03:11 - 00:09:52:21 Amir Sadeghpour Yeah. So I'm, currently collaborating with Dr. Josh Marquis at the University of Kentucky on a precision and management, project that is funded by, Illinois and nutrient, Research and Education Council for Illinois sites. And we also have funding coming from Kentucky Corn Growers Association for his part of the funding to do the collaborative project. So what we've seen is that due to the, a lot of the spatial and temporal variability that exists in the soil, and we as we are observing it in our yield map, under those changes in weather, the nitrogen need of the corn, can be different from one year to another or one 00:09:52:21 - 00:10:20:28 Amir Sadeghpour side to another. So we think that our current nitrogen recommendation, which is MRTN, that is a maximum return to nitrogen, is accurate. But is not precise. That means, for example, if we have, 20 fields on average, I can predict the optimal nitrogen rate right. But if you go to each of those fields, it could be wrong in many of them. 00:10:21:01 - 00:10:48:12 Amir Sadeghpour So approaches like earmarking or, heavily rely on empirical relationship between yield and nitrogen rate, or goal with all projects to move towards a more mechanistic approach, such as using sensor based nitrogen management. And generally Illinois farmers do not have access to originally specific sensor based algorithm. So I were right next to management. 00:10:48:12 - 00:10:54:12 Todd Gleason Can VRT impact, water quality and soil health on that regional wide basis. 00:10:54:14 - 00:11:20:11 Amir Sadeghpour Basically, yes. So the goal, the variable rate, speaking of nitrogen, for instance, that is to get the rate right at every part of the field compared to flat rate applications. So when you go ahead and apply one rate as a flat rate like what MRTN ... you're applying nitrogen, for example, higher in some parts of the field and lower in the other parts. 00:11:20:14 - 00:11:47:13 Amir Sadeghpour So I think there are some tradeoffs there. For example, in terms of water quality, if you're applying higher than what the crop can remove, that and that nitrogen that you're applying compared to the corn, the nitrogen that is being removed, results in positive, highly positive nitrogen balances. That means we we will end up with high residual nitrogen at the end of the growing season. 00:11:47:13 - 00:12:20:14 Amir Sadeghpour And especially if you're not using cover crops, really have, great potential to lose nitrogen. And which would, basically decrease water quality. On the other hand, when we are applying nitrogen less than what the crop is needed, that means that we are not maximizing our yield potential, our yields going to be lower. That means the input that we are adding to the soil is less, for example, the roots or the, or the residue of the corn. 00:12:20:17 - 00:12:57:05 Amir Sadeghpour And that can impact soil organic matter levels. Excess nitrogen application can also fix organic matter. It can, accelerate, microbial activity and then reduce soil organic matter. I think there are opportunities to, to that reduce, in overall to reduce the water quality issues and and also make sure that this all organic matter levels are at least, staying as they should and not reducing because of low and application rates. 00:12:57:12 - 00:13:06:23 Todd Gleason Given all of that, what direction do you think the research will go in the future, as it's related to the variable rate technology? 00:13:06:23 - 00:13:35:07 Amir Sadeghpour One of one of the things that we are seeing and it's very hard to predict is weather. So weather impacts a lot of our management decisions. If we could integrate, predictive models that can predict weather more accurately with or, approaches, for example, for nitrogen management, we would be able to, do a much better, nitrogen management in our farms. 00:13:35:09 - 00:13:42:09 Amir Sadeghpour And that could allow us to be more profitable and at the same time and reduce environmental footprints. 00:13:42:11 - 00:13:51:20 Todd Gleason Wouldn't that require the weather models to be able to predict the size of events, as well as the number of inches of rainfall that might come? 00:13:51:23 - 00:14:01:09 Amir Sadeghpour That's very true. So now what we're seeing is that, the the intensity of rainfalls are getting more. 00:14:01:12 - 00:14:21:25 Amir Sadeghpour We are seeing like, maybe a less number of rainfalls, but actually more intensity when they come and that all are, influencing your management decisions and, and the way we form. So, yeah, I think they they should be able to do that to help us do a better management practices. 00:14:21:27 - 00:14:26:00 Todd Gleason I'm, I'm wondering whether that is on a short term basis. 00:14:26:00 - 00:14:39:25 Todd Gleason Meaning when do I apply and what does the event look like within the next, I don't know, 10 or 15 days or whether it's when do I apply and how much and what the events look like over the duration of the season. 00:14:39:27 - 00:14:59:08 Amir Sadeghpour So if we, know, so if we know either both, both of them, I could if we, if we can have, duration of the growing season and be able to do a better a prediction models for those that would be, that would be amazing. 00:14:59:08 - 00:15:15:04 Amir Sadeghpour That would allow us to be much more efficient in the way we manage nitrogen. But but it's at this point it's been a little bit challenging. And that's because just the weather, so hard to predict and unfortunately, cause it's so weather dependent. 00:15:15:06 - 00:15:21:08 Todd Gleason Do you have any advice on how farmers should adopt VRT into their operations? 00:15:21:14 - 00:15:36:22 Amir Sadeghpour I would say that the growers, first of all, they should look at the size of their farm, the the scale of their farming and, and whether these variable technology would provide the benefits they're looking for for that. 00:15:36:25 - 00:16:03:23 Amir Sadeghpour Does it make sense economically? Forum's adopted. Another one is to, wait for the science to do the job, make sure we have correct and accurate algorithms to help them adopt the management, and make sure that they would certainly benefit from that. So I would say it could be different from one to another. But overall I think the benefits, are there. 00:16:03:27 - 00:16:07:17 Amir Sadeghpour Whether it makes sense for them, economically, that's the point. 00:16:07:22 - 00:16:08:19 Todd Gleason Okay, thank you. 00:16:08:21 - 00:16:09:18 Amir Sadeghpour Thank you so much. 00:16:09:24 - 00:16:26:01 Todd Gleason Well, Amir Sadeghpour is an assistant professor and researcher of integrated cropping systems and soil management at SIU in Carbondale, Illinois. Brian Corkill is a farmer from Henry County, Illinois, and has been collecting yield data since the mid 1990s. 00:16:26:03 - 00:16:32:05 Todd Gleason And he now joins us. Thank you, Brian, for taking the time out of your busy schedule. And, welcome to the program today. 00:16:32:13 - 00:16:49:15 Brian Corkill Yeah. Thank you. Todd. Glad to talk to you again. I'll introduce myself. I'm Brian Corkill, I'm a fifth generation farmer who farms with my dad in southeast Henry County in northeast Stark County. We primarily raise corn. 00:16:49:15 - 00:16:50:25 Brian Corkill Soybeans. 00:16:50:27 - 00:16:54:22 Todd Gleason What are the conservation practices you deploy on the farms? 00:16:54:22 - 00:17:14:28 Brian Corkill Currently, we no till soybeans into cover crops. So our cover crops are green when we put soybeans into them. We do use a vertical tillage tool to seed our cover crops. We have an air seeder on that, on that tool. And we kind of use it like a drill bit. 00:17:15:04 - 00:17:39:02 Brian Corkill But that's how we see their cover crops. And then then we will need to no till soybeans into that. We also strip till corn, all our corn is strip till whether it's first year corn, corn on corn, whatever we may do for corn, it's going to be a strip till some of that also is cover crop. 00:17:39:04 - 00:18:08:22 Brian Corkill Typically we would like to have all that all of our acres cover crop. But some years that just doesn't work out. So, we also have, and we installed a bioreactor on one farm this fall, and we have waterways. We try to do as much as we can for conservation practices. So that's kind of kind of what we do for for conservation. 00:18:08:25 - 00:18:11:06 Todd Gleason Do you use variable rate technology? 00:18:11:06 - 00:18:37:02 Brian Corkill Yeah. We do use variable rate technology. And we we did start, back in the 90s. Obviously, as you had mentioned, that that we had already been collecting yield data starting in the mid 90s. We started to use variable rate technology for lime. And I think a lot of guys that that kind of got started down that path. 00:18:37:03 - 00:19:08:24 Brian Corkill Lime was the easy button for starting with variable rate technology. But now in our operation we use variable rate technology in every aspect. So we use it for lime application fertilizer application in the fall. So we will broadcast fertilizer ahead of soybeans. We'll have our retailers do that. I mentioned that I strip tilled ahead of corn. 00:19:08:27 - 00:19:36:06 Brian Corkill I have a, cross strip tool bar with the mud tag generation two fertilizer system on, so I can variable rate two separate plug products through that system. Drive fertilizer. We also put on, anhydrous in the fall. We don't we don't variable rate the anhydrous in the fall, but I put on a minimal rate. 00:19:36:06 - 00:20:09:07 Brian Corkill So I put on a 100 pounds ahead, that’s anhydrous. So that would be roughly 119, 119 pounds of anhydrous, but actually 100 pounds. And in the fall. And then also, in this, in this so in the spring a lot, I'll put on a flat rate and with our herbicide program, but then I'll make one or two pass. 00:20:09:15 - 00:20:46:04 Brian Corkill We have a sprayer, we have, Y drops. So I can variable rate that. So we will actually variable rate. And during growing season, we also, Do variable rate planting as well. So corn and soybeans both. So we're using variable rate in basically every aspect of our farming operation. 00:20:46:10 - 00:20:48:22 Todd Gleason And do you use it on every acre of the farm? 00:20:48:29 - 00:21:20:13 Brian Corkill Yeah we use it on every acre. We will a lot of it we take into account soil test, historic yield maps, which, which is something that's come out. Oh, it's probably been 7 or 8 years ago, but, being able to use historic yield maps and, and using our soil tests, and then we take into account how, you know, drainage and things like that. 00:21:20:13 - 00:21:52:01 Brian Corkill So, so we can affect drainage on farms we own. But on the farms we rent we may not be able to really change the, the drainage. So we do take that into account. Bring in weather forecasts and things like that. So that helps us try to, and it's important to, to get a good weather forecast from a long term standpoint so that then we can make decisions. 00:21:52:03 - 00:22:05:16 Brian Corkill To, to kind of dry up our planning prescriptions and things like that. So it's, it's seems complicated, but really it isn’t. 00:22:05:23 - 00:22:16:26 Todd Gleason So clearly your conservation minded. Did VRT, was it adopted because of the conservation practices, economics, both? 00:22:16:28 - 00:22:34:25 Brian Corkill Well, I would say that we adopted VRT at the beginning from a conservation standpoint. I wouldn't say it's necessarily been economic. 00:22:34:27 - 00:23:07:19 Brian Corkill I think at the end of the day, we probably spend fairly close to the same amount on, on inputs, you know, as far as fertilizer, lime and things like that. Maybe not lime so much, but more on the fertilizer side. We just redistribute redistribute the dollars within the field so we pick out, you know, the lower, lower producing areas we try to maintain, the higher producing areas. 00:23:07:19 - 00:23:50:13 Brian Corkill We'll actually put on more fertilizer and try to drive yields higher in the higher producing areas. So we'll typically look at a field and split it up into a 2060 20 split. So the 20 lowest 20% of the lowest producing areas may get less fertilizer because they don't produce as much, the middle 60% or the average is what I would, would, call them, we try to keep kind of what we might has been doing. 00:23:50:15 - 00:24:19:01 Brian Corkill We may tweak it a little bit depending on the field, but kind of what we've always been doing in the middle 60% would be that way. And then the, the high assuming 20% will actually try to push fertility and push yields there. So we've actually got higher yields that way. And, and not really spent a whole lot more, dollars for, for inputs. 00:24:19:03 - 00:24:20:17 Todd Gleason On the low 20%. 00:24:20:17 - 00:24:22:20 Todd Gleason Does the maintenance work. 00:24:22:23 - 00:24:53:09 Brian Corkill Yeah. So we actually we probably go a lot of our farms that we've been farming for a long time, and we've probably over applied in the past in some of those areas. So we yeah, we may be a little bit below maintenance on some of those areas. And we're still getting the same yields. Especially where we strip till corn. 00:24:53:10 - 00:25:28:04 Brian Corkill So, what we're, We're probably running, three quarters rate of fertilizer where we strip tilled. And, and that has worked. And we've been able to maintain our soil tests because we're, we're applying it in a band in a higher concentration. So the efficiency is a lot, a lot better. And then ahead of soybeans, obviously as a, as I said, we, we broadcast that. 00:25:28:04 - 00:25:50:07 Brian Corkill But yeah, we've been able to, to kind of keep you status quo, if not better on the lower you yielding areas and, improved it on the higher yielding areas because we push fertility a little bit more later so. 00:25:50:09 - 00:26:01:20 Todd Gleason Thank you, Brian. Brian Corkill is with BA farms out of Henry County, Illinois. Andy Wycislo now joins us from western Illinois where he works for Waypoint Analytical. 00:26:01:23 - 00:26:06:29 Todd Gleason Hey, thank you, Andy, for being here. Can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do? 00:26:06:29 - 00:26:25:26 Andy Wycislo Primarily, I, handle agronomy for, again, the Midwest and Western U.S.. That's I joke, it's a small area from Ohio to California. And also recently picked up western Canada to my to my list of responsibilities. So, I get around, but, it's kind of kind of varied. 00:26:25:26 - 00:26:49:01 Andy Wycislo I have a pretty, pretty varied job. I help our clients with various agronomic issues, either related to their results or to soil fertility in general. We do a lot of training seminars for our clients, and develop training materials for, for clients that don't need a seminar per se. Support our sales team. I go to a lot of trade shows and conferences and things. 00:26:49:03 - 00:27:14:07 Andy Wycislo Obviously, you know, pre and hopefully post Covid. But another big part of what I do is I also review the quality control, for all the samples coming out of the Midwest and West Coast. And I approve those samples, which this past year was, about a million samples. So, waypoint itself is, it's the largest agricultural lab network in the country. 00:27:14:09 - 00:27:22:19 Andy Wycislo Probably the world. And we've got seven ag labs across the US. In total, across all of our labs, we process about 2 million samples annually, so. 00:27:22:19 - 00:27:37:22 Todd Gleason Do you typically grid or soil sample, and I know we talked earlier in the podcast about this just a little bit, because there is a transition of some sort happening, but I'm not certain which way things will go at this point. 00:27:37:25 - 00:28:00:28 Andy Wycislo Well, there's a lot of debate about the grid or zone. Short answer is it depends. It kind of depends on what your goals are. But it really depends, in my opinion, a lot on what sort of historical data you have to build. To build a zone. So the vast majority of what we do, is we process grid samples primarily, usually two and a half acre grid. 00:28:01:00 - 00:28:20:09 Andy Wycislo That's the most common, I would say, out there right now, that a grid is set up, you know, arbitrarily on a field and a two and a half, you know, every two and a half acres, we would pull a sample, but it gives kind of the greatest level of precision or resolution, especially when you have no historical data or high resolution historical data to go from. 00:28:20:12 - 00:28:47:28 Andy Wycislo For example, you know, rented ground or a lot of leased farmland out there. And in most of those cases, they don't have any sort of historical data and soils being highly variable. You know, systems that they are, you know, want to be able to pick up, variability. Now zone sampling, you know, it it it's it's somewhat of an attempt to modify a grid, into areas that are similar to each other in a field. 00:28:48:00 - 00:29:06:15 Andy Wycislo I mean, it may be a slightly larger area, say maybe 5 to 10 acres. That's that's pretty variable, but it's developed by somebody that's got a lot of history on a field. So there's a lot of things that can go into it. Like, you know, obviously several cycles of past soil test data. Hopefully that were on some sort of a grid or higher level precision. 00:29:06:17 - 00:29:25:17 Andy Wycislo But you're going to take yield maps, you know, topography, soil type. All those should be used to build a zone and an area that's, that's pretty similar in the field. The challenge with zone sampling has been that in a lot of cases, people will build a zone without enough historical data, really just an attempt to take fewer samples. 00:29:25:17 - 00:29:46:29 Andy Wycislo And that's not the right reason to do it. You know, good, well developed zones are great. I mean, it's a great system, but you have to have that historical data and a well built zone to tell you, you know, where your variability stands, because if you, you know, go to a larger zone, without as many samples, say, over 8 or 10 acres. 00:29:46:29 - 00:29:52:16 Andy Wycislo I mean, that's not even really a precision program anymore. So, kind of depends on what your goals are. 00:29:52:18 - 00:29:59:06 Todd Gleason What percentage of the farmers that you work with use variable rate technology for fertilizer applications? 00:29:59:09 - 00:30:09:18 Andy Wycislo Well, to note, our our primary clientele at waypoint and really also labs is is basically ag retail. The co-op or independent agronomist or consultants. 00:30:09:21 - 00:30:31:29 Andy Wycislo And those are the groups. Typically they're going to be doing these precision sort of sampling regimes. So we're skewing a little bit from the overall total because the vast majority of what we see are precision, you know, grid type type samples, because it takes a lot of soil samples to do a precision program. But overall big picture, the numbers are kind of hard to come by. 00:30:31:29 - 00:30:59:06 Andy Wycislo There's not a lot of solid data on it. But, I mean, I've heard estimates as much as half of all crop acres aren't sampled at all, period. And then maybe the half that are I'd say another half of those are probably, precision samples. I know in 2013, the USDA estimated that about one fifth of overall crop acres, saw VRT applications, which hypothetically should use for some sort of precision soil data. 00:30:59:09 - 00:31:15:08 Andy Wycislo So that's probably increased a little bit. So I'd say about a quarter of all acres today use a pretty accurate, estimation. But so to answer your question, you know, most of what we see is, is precision or, variable rate type applications, because that's that's what we do. 00:31:15:10 - 00:31:21:24 Todd Gleason What do you think the benefits, are from utilizing VRT, particularly in relationship to the fertilizer? 00:31:21:26 - 00:31:44:19 Andy Wycislo While the most obvious benefit is that you get much a much more accurate picture of your soil fertility situation, which in turn allows you to more accurately place the fertilizer or lime, where it's needed, but also to not place it where it's not needed. Most growers, you know, they know what their typical field averages, but they also know their spots in the fields that yield better. 00:31:44:21 - 00:31:56:28 Andy Wycislo And they also know there's where the bad spots in the field are. So precision sampling and VRT will allow the grower to more accurately place that fertilizer. And of course that has all kinds of environmental and economic benefits. 00:31:57:01 - 00:32:00:23 Todd Gleason Do you see those economic advantages in adopting VRT? 00:32:00:25 - 00:32:07:14 Andy Wycislo Well, as I mentioned, that the more accurate placement of fertilizer, you know, equates really to more accurate placement of their dollar. 00:32:07:17 - 00:32:31:13 Andy Wycislo So if you're over fertilizing spots that don't need it, then that's basically wasted money. You know, if you under fertilize spots that do need it, that's going to be wasted money in the form of of lower yields because there wasn't enough fertility in that spot. One interesting way I think, to look at it is that it helps a grower evolve from simply farming for yield to farming for profit, for example. 00:32:31:16 - 00:32:55:16 Andy Wycislo Over time, this more precise sampling and VRT application, you know, way of doing things, they might show a grower that there's spots in the field that, you know, not only yield higher than the rest of the field, but if you add more fertilizer, they might yield even higher still. You know, likewise, there may be spots in the field that yield so poorly no matter what the soil tests say. 00:32:55:19 - 00:33:18:00 Andy Wycislo Believe it or not, I've seen research out of Iowa that suggests that some fields, you know, there there may be spots where the most profitable action might not only be to turn off the fertilizer spreader, but to turn off the planter. There was one particular grower that had 150 acre field that, right in the middle of the field, there were 15 acres to put in the CRP, because that was the most profitable thing he could do with that acre to those acres. 00:33:18:02 - 00:33:27:29 Andy Wycislo So, you know, having this increased level of precision and data lets you start kind of thinking outside the box of how how growers may have normally thought. 00:33:27:29 - 00:33:32:18 Todd Gleason Any advice from you for farmers that are interested in adopting VRT? 00:33:32:18 - 00:33:46:06 Andy Wycislo I would say talk, talk to your retailer, your co-op. If you have an independent consultant or agronomist, talk to them because they're usually the most common routes to get the ball rolling on on VRT or precision sampling. 00:33:46:08 - 00:34:04:20 Andy Wycislo Typically they're going to have the equipment, to pull the samples. They're going to have the software that you need. To go out and GPS and pull these, these samples. You know, plus they're also going to have the, the ability and the software to put together the application maps, which is obviously important for putting down the VRT fertilizer. 00:34:04:22 - 00:34:28:07 Andy Wycislo If they don't have the ability, you know, there's lots of companies and agronomists out there to do right now. It's a pretty fast growing field. So, so just, just, you know, whoever you choose, make sure, you know, to get the plug in for the lab side, make sure that they're using a lab that, you know, puts out good, accurate results because, you know, having quality results is really the basis for this entire thing. 00:34:28:08 - 00:34:32:13 Andy Wycislo So, you know, a good lab with good QC is, is really important. 00:34:32:16 - 00:34:53:25 Todd Gleason Andy Wycislo is with Waypoint Analytical and joined us here on this episode 32 of the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction podcast. Are these tools in your toolbox? Soil sampling and variable rate technology. The program was produced in conjunction with the Illinois Extension Watershed Outreach Associates, Jennifer Jones and Rachel Curry. 00:34:53:27 - 00:34:54:29 Todd Gleason I'm Todd Gleason.