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Monday Mini: The Self-Deprecating Episode · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this Sanny and Samantha and what good to stuff?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: When ever told your protection of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: And welcome to another edition of Monday Mini, where we
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: just do whatever we want essentially from ten to fifteen minutes,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: maybe even twenty who knows.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: And today is my turn.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: So I had an interesting conversation just recently and which
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: it ended with them saying you're being too self deprecating,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: and I had a moment of like, wait, so we've
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: been talking about this books that we've been going through.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I've talked plenty of how I have a lot of
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: anxiety when it comes to my speech and or being
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: on a podcast or being seen in general. Have a
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: huge anxiety about being live. So we whenever we're asked
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: to do anything live, I literally have a panic attack
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: at that point in time.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: And there's a lot.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: There's a lot that as someone who has gone through
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: a lot, I have many, many of mental health stuff
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: that I have to address constantly. And you know, you know, ID,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: you and I have talked about the fact that for us,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: because it's most likely trauma related, it's not something that's
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: just going to disappear. It's not something that we can
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: like let go of, or breathe through, or take a
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: medicine just get past it, I guess, because there's a
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: lot to these types of trauma that has a reactionary
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: thing in order to be self protecting, I guess in
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: a matter of ways, and self deprecation is something that
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I do use as a way of coping and or
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: as a way of interacting with people, because I do
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: have a lot of anxiety around people, performance anxiety, all
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the things.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: I've got it.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: As in fact, talking about this right now is making
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: my heart pound a little heavier, a little faster, to
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: the point that I also decrease my caffeine intake because
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I think it affects how I perform or and or
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: the anxiety when I perform or do anything in general.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Anything, yeah, anything.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: So it's interesting because I've talked to other women, as
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: in fact, past hosts have talked about their own issues
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: like this and the fact that they actually took something
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: for it before they would performed. I'm mean prescribed, not
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: just like self medicating. It really is prescribed.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: I had a.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Friend who was an artist and had severe anxiety, and
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: she was prescribed like I believe blood dinners, but very
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: low dosage because it's supposed to be like you know,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: the constriction of the heart makes it more like that
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: your nervous system reoverreact all these things. I'm sure people
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: are out there like, that's not how it goes. You
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: can let me know how it goes, but you know,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: just a matter of fact that it is a thing.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: And honestly, it's been more with women that actually talk
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: about it, not necessarily that have it, but I have
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: talked about it, like I've not talked to many men
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: who've talked about these things, or they don't acknowledge it.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Perhaps I don't know.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: But again, so last night we did we had a
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: social event. I do not go out for social things,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: and is again after the pandemic, I think I've gotten
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: so much worse. I am that type of introvert that
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: can perform and socialize and be on it as you
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: would say, if I need to be, but it is
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: so exhausting for me that I have to go home
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: for like a couple of days by myself to recharge
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: because it took a lot of energy for me to
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: get to that point. I think my threshold for that
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: has gotten smaller.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: So I'm a little bit anxious about that.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: But a part of the being on thing is self deprecating,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: and that term did come out in a way that
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I was talking about being very nervous about doing something,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: or doing the audiobook. When it comes to podcasting, Christina,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: our super producer, is amazing and very patient in making
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: sure that we don't sound like battling, you know, incoherent people,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: and I love her for that. So knowing that she
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: does that makes me feel a lot better because she
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: does make us sound good. It's just me and you,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: right Annie, when we record, there's no one else president
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I am in a dark room essentially with Annie, and
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: so therefore I feel a lot better, or at least
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: a little more confident. And I still stumble quite a
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: bit even when it's two of us, but I'm not
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: as anxious about that. But so, we were talking about
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: doing the book where we were going to be in
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: a legit studio with a producer in front of us
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: that we've never worked with, that this is their expertise.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: They work with actors, they work with voice actors, they
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: work with professional readers, and then also having someone in
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: our ear directing us and being told podcasters are really
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: surprised by this process because it's so different from podcasting.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: So all of that makes me really, really, really anxious
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: reading a book again. I still have the you know
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: you can't do this in the back of my head.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: So I was just talking about how I was very
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: anxious and talking about the differences and why I'm anxious,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: and because it was kind of a flip that you
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: can do this, and I'm like, yeah, you think you can,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: but you don't understand that leading up to this is
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: making me feel so over the top anxious. The building up,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: the expectations in my head, the fear of failure, it's
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: right on top of me. And I know you feel
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: this too. To the point that we've talked about that
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: I think I maybe have symptoms of knocker websy because
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: I've been exhausted for no reason. I've just been sleepy
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: the entire last week, to the point my partner's like,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: you were sleeping more and I'm like, yeah, yeah, this
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: is not a good sign. I think this is happening
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: because of these things, and I found that interesting when
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, you're just being self deprecating. I can't
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: deal with this and walked away, and I kind of
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: had a moment of like being pissed off, and I
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: was like, okay, I get it. I get and people
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: don't want to be around to someone who is negative
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: all the time. And I have gotten that accusation, and
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: they're not wrong. I am a pessimistic individual when it
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: comes to things. Part of that is that, you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: because I am afraid to fail.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: So therefore, if I.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Bring it out and I am wrong and I don't fail,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: then that's a great surprise. But if I do fail,
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: you're not surprised, and I already set that up kind
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: of like double whammy. Like being a pessimist to me
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: has always been the way to go because if it
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: goes better than you think, then you're going to be rewarded.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: If it goes as you expected, then you just met
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: your expectations. So there you go, win when but not
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: when when type of moment. And it also made me
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: think about the fact that what is self deprecation? Where
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: does it come from? Who uses it?
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: And I did.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I found some articles that I think is interesting because
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I my Google, I said, hey, what's trauma, self deprecation?
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Women?
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Those are my key words. And here's something that one
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: of the articles said talking about women and self deprecation
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: and how they use it. It says part of the
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: reason that might be used is because of trauma. So
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: here's the article. It says trauma and survivors of many
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: different forms of trauma such as life threatening accidents, events,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: sexual abuse, emotional trauma, and generational trauma typically have low
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: self esteem before trauma, and individual usually believes in their
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: ability to exercise good judgment and stay safe. However, after
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: a traumatic experience, much of that trust is destroyed, which
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: can leave the person to feel doubt, fear, helplessness, shame,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: and feeling they are to blame all eroding self esteem.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: So I thought that was an interesting article because it's true,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: just as if like the blank canvas thing everybody comes
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: out with outside of mental health stuff, the idea that
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: you are confident in yourself where you don't know that
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: you can't do it, that's not a thing. But if
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: you have been decimated your emotions, your safety, then.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: That is destroyed.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Whatever was there, it's probably been damaged by whatever traumas
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: you've gone through. A lot of people, including myself, as
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: a way of defensiveness is to be self deprecating because
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: at the very least you control that narrative no matter
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: how negative it sounds. And I thought that was interesting
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: as a way of having a conversation of like, yeah,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I get that this can.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: Be really wearing and you really want.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: To correct it, but having someone immediately be like, stop
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: doing that to yourself. It's not really helpful. It's not
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: something that comes off with love. You're being criticized for
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: a defense mechanism that you built to survive trauma. Now,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: should we go through just hating ourselves and go through
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: self deprecation?
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: Of course not.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: That's not what I'm saying at all. But the conversation
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: also comes back to the fact that self deprecation may
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: not be as bad as everybody wants to say that
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: it is. And I say this in like a way
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: of understanding how we cope. So if this is something
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: that we have to use to cope, it is a
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: survival tactic once again, and that needs to be understood
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: and not dismissed. There was a conversation, and I think
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: this was applying to men more so than women, because
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: there was a comparison about the fact that when men
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: use self deprecation, they're rewarded as being humble, and when
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: women use self deprecation, they are showing that they are lesser,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: they're proving the lesser of themselves. So I found that
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: interesting as well. So when I did see articles, it
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: says self deprecation may not be as bad as you think.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: It was referring to the fact that it can seem
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: like it's humility. You're able to lead well with self
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: deprecation because you're able to show your own faults and
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: show how to lead that way. So of course this
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: was applied to men in typical order. That was one
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: article when a woman was talking about a comedy and
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: that fact that she put the you know, like had
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: a moment in Instagram and it was self deprecating, and
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: many people came in like, you're not this, You're not that, No,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: you're wonderful, all these things, and then one person saying,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: you know, when you do this, you really make yourself
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: look bad and women look bad, which pissed her off,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: and I understandably because she's like, but this is not
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: about you. This is about me and the way that
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I feel, the way I needed to express myself today,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: and the self deprecation may not be what you think
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: it is, just because I use words that seem like harsh,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: it may be a legitimate thing, like I have to
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: use this to myself in order to know that I'm.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Okay, weirdly enough.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: So there was a whole level of that process that
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: came through because I was like, you know, I get
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: it because I will always use self deprecation. That is
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: not something that I will ever be able to let
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: go of ever. That won't be a thing. But being
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: even if it is in the most negative light, if
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I'm doing it in the like I am really self
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: harming by using this thing. Having someone come at me
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: and tell me I'm wrong and I'm doing something wrong
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: not helpful. And I really had that moment like, Wow,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not again being a negative Nelly.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: Sorry, Nelly's out there in the world. Your name Nelly.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: It's not rolling around so angry at me.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: I cannot believe you pulled that out of a hat.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: That was one of the first I thought, to be fair,
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: I do think of Nelly.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this whole conversation that like, we really need
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: to understand and and have a deeper understanding of trauma
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: and what it is and and the fact that people
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: do cope differently and being dismissive of it, especially when
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: it comes to anxiety, and especially when it comes to
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: something that I am really nervous about, like it is
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to take something to sleep the night before,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I think prescribed, prescribe something because I think it's overwhelming
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: for me, even though after it, I'm gonna think that
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: it's so silly that I was that freaked out.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: But to this point, this is where I am, and
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: to dismiss it as if I'm wrong does not help.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Only it only builds up the anxiety I already had.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Right, there's a lot of things in this conversation that
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: remind me of other things we've talked about around, like,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: for instance, filler words and saying sorry and how women that,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and then the articles that come out that are you know,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: largely from written by men and or just from a
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: very corporate perspective that it's like, don't do that. It
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: makes you look weak, it puts you in a weaker position,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: and it's like it's not necessarily we're once again just
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: putting how men do things at the top and when
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: how women do them, were ignoring or judging them by
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: how men use them. And this is all very gendered
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: and stereotypical, but it's true, like with the way women
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: say sorry has been different than the way men do it.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: And it is a very conversational thing, and it is
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: very much just of like hey, I'm with you, I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: see you, or it is a very something from trauma
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: of like hey, I mean no harm. Like there's a
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: bunch of other things going on that can't fit into
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: like a five point business art that's like, hey, stop
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: doing that because they'll never get.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: A raise, right, But that's the other part of that
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: is like it's not what we have said, it's just
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: just existing that in itself has already given us, you know, disadvantage,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: so it doesn't matter what we do and playing the
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: game and having that conversation because if you're too confident,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: then you may not get that either, and then you
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: become the And it's interesting too because the same conversation
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: about being humble and all that they talked about, women
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: use self deprecation to actually take up space like this
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: is the way that they actually are able to talk
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: about themselves and something about themselves. And I'm like exactly
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: that this is a bigger part, like I'm able to
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: express how I feel and how anxious I am through
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: this kind of conversational way that it seems harmful sometimes,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: and it can be harmful sometimes. I mean I think
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: anything can be harmful. Being too confident can be harmful.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: But like having that conversation that maybe women are using
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: self deprecation to take up space, whether it's the right
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: way or the wrong way, but they're doing something in
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: order to balance out that weight essentially, And I thought
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: that was interesting too, because like exactly it's it may
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: not be the way you would want it to go,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: but they're doing it right.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And I mean I think that there's a
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: lot of points to that too, of just all the
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: other things we get told of. You know, you can't
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: be too confident, and being self deprecating is a way
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: to take up space in that. And because you can't
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: be too confident, so here is a way I can
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: like talk about myself right but not be the right
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: It's just like so much going on of kind of
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: very strategic and like almost instinctive of like I have well,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I couldn't. I couldn't get this when I was confident,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: So let me try this way.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Right, And that's the thing. It's like, I think we
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: have to be really careful. And again there's a difference
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: being harmful and intervening because you are worried because of
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: whatever reason, but also the tactic that you use. Are
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: you pushing someone away, are you pulling someone in? Or
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: are you telling them to be quiet? Essentially, and that
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: kind of happened if it felt like.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: I needed to be quiet mm hmm.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah, those are my thoughts.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: All right, there you go.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want more information about some of the
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: articles I've been reading, uh, let us know.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: We'll definitely send it to you.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: But again, if you do look up all of those keywords,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: it does have to do list of how not to
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: do that and how harmful it can be. And again
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's not, because yes, there's there's a
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: level for sure, But I also think there is the
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: other side that we don't talk about too often about
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: what why, why we do this and why we should
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: accept it to a certain degree.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Right, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, I tell you before
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: when we were talking about this. These parties always bring
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: out we're not used to interacting with anyone anymore.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: It's a whole social project now.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: It is our next party, well, what will be discussing
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: so well, listeners, If you have any thoughts about this,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: you can let us know. You can email us a
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Stepania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: and TikTok at stuff I've Never Told You. We're also
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. We do have a book coming out. You
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: can re order it at stuff you should read books
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: dot com. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: our executive producer Maya, and our contruder Joey.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: Y'all are amazing.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening. Step
• 17:53
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