Latest / The Occult Rejects / The Pisgah Shrine with Vince Barrows Part 2

Transcript

The Pisgah Shrine with Vince Barrows Part 2 · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I see something is going to happen. What what's going
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: to happen?
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: What I help Well, I think it was ancestors shrine.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: I mean that this had been a sacred shrine for years,
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: for millennia, you know, going back until even the Ice Age,
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: and that this was where they accumulated all their shrine,
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: all their ancestors shrine.
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: And totems are a dotamag and and the reason why
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: it was a place of worship and it was a
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: sacred place, and these all just were accumulated there like
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: a shrine for many many years, many thousands of years,
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: and just you know, accumulated there.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: And I think the reason why they haven't been studied
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: more is because political motives from the Smithsonian blocked it.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: And it needs to be studied and preserved and not
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: just thrown in a storage locker somewhere. I think it
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: should be repatriated and honored, you know, for what it is,
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: an ancestor trying.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's a lot older than what's being said.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it goes it goes back to
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: the Ice Age and continuously was added to like like
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: every culture that lived there added to it and they
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: didn't take away from it. I think they just like
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: accumulated more and more things as they went along.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: You said you mentioned ice age, and while you were
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: saying it earlier, I had to stop myself from asking
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: camels during the ice age? What we may not know?
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: But what do do you think it was like a
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: desert area or is it back then camels could take
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: the cold?
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't know that, I'm not sure, but just
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: the figurine of a camel is one of the really
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: interesting ones. And well, I think I have started out
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: this slide has a picture of it for this show there.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: So the camel, you know, it literally has two humps
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: and the cross hatching all over it. And well, one
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: of the reasons is that is a pack animal. It
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: was great for crossing distances. And possibly it was brought
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: over on a boat. I mean maybe they were traveling
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: on boats like I show here. I mean all these
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: different routes they could get there, and they could bring
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: it with them and at any given time in history
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: may have made its way over there somehow with the
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: the people that brought it. And well, there's other symbols
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: that relate to murrh, like the the religious fragrance that
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: they would make from resin excuse me, and it was
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: similar area of vicinity that to the camel region. So
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: there's symbols of the mer tree found on these figurines merchry.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: There's a legend that the merchury gave birth to the
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: hog or wild bore and then from that at that
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: time basically that was around Christmas time, so they would
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: have a tribute. They would attribute the fragrance burning from
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: the resin that the merchrey had with with Christmas time
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: and that was something that the tribes in the Middle
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: East did and it lasted up until about five hundred BC.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: So some of the figurines are, you know, showing cultural
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: parallels there and whether they had I mean, they didn't
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: have merchery in North America, but they had the long
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: leaf pine nearby there, so that might have been one
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: of the reasons that they came there, was to get
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: the resin from the long leaf pine to make the
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: fragrance that they would burn around Christmas time.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I also have another and maybe I'm off on this,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: but when we were young and we went through history,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: we were always taught that when they when they accidentally
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: fell on the Americas. They thought they were going to India.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: And if you were going to trade in India back then,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: those are the things you probably would have. You would
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: have the camels to carry your purchase, your merchandise, you
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: would have the merg to trade. I don't know how
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: much of a value it was back then, So it
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: could Could it be that these items accidentally got here
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: because they ended up in the wrong place.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely that that's possible too. When you know, when
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: the traders came over, they well, they thought it was
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: going to India and they may have just landed in
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: North America. And like Columbu said, it was India Indians
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: because they were thinking they landed in India, but in
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: fact they landed in North America. And that one of
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: the first maps of North America referred to a humped
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: animal being located in the North Carolina area. And humped animal, well,
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: could it be a camel or would it be a bison?
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: You know, it's hard to say, but the fact that
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: it had humped animal written on the map right where
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: North Carolina was is a pretty good indication that they
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: once lived there. And and you're right, it could could
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: well have been from trade or getting getting lost or
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: just ending up there by.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Accident, depending on how far back with the murder. I mean,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: that was something that Egypt was pumping out like crazy
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: at one point. And when believe it or not, the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: when Egypt was at its richest, it was being run
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: by a female and she know what she was doing
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: with the business, and she really did some crazy ship
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: with the trade, the trading systems, and that was one
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: of their top things, like they were getting rich off.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: It's all on that ship.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Well. Yeah, and the tiny eat figuring even shows up
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: on site. So the Tonyat was Northern Africa leader near
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Egypt and around five hundred BC timeframe, and so that
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: there's some figurings that correlate well also with Tony Eats
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: from the site. So it's yeah, it's amazing.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: And the cross the cross hatched boats, I mean there's
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: there's rectangular boats that are covered in cross hatching. One
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: of the boats that was the best one, well it
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: disappeared from the collection, so someone took it. I mean
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: it's it's no longer in the collection. But that the
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: fact that they had actual figurings made like with in
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: the shape of canoes or boats that were covered in
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: cross hatching is totally amazing. Shows that the travel importance
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: was there.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of there's a lot of different things
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: coming together in this spot. I feel like this is
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: very interesting.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, I mean the trade routes. This kind
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: of shows the trade routes kind of come from all
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: over the world just converging there. And there's evidence these
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: are figurines that correlate to the totems or clan symbols
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: from those regions as well. So out of the nine
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: hundred and seventy, there's nine of them that have clan
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: symbols from these regions depicted on the map to show
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: that they traveled or they must have had these figurines
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: coming from those areas as well, or at least known
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: that the clan symbols existed over there.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: We know that they come as far west as Ohio
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: that region and as far north as Canada. They've come
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: down there. How far south southern tribes do you think
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: may have moved up to there or had any communication
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: because it seems like either their trade lines or there
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: was something that had all these tribes that people originally
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: thought were having their own societies and didn't intermingle too much.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Actually did mingle more than we realize.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's capy Bearra figurines as well. Capy Bera is
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: an animal and totem figurine from South America.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Those things are awesome.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: And so yeah, South America is represented in the collection
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: as a figuring the of the kapy Bera and so
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: there's evidence there a strong connection there as well. And
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: the fact that there's also Mexican type of clans. The monkey,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: you know, there's there's a lot of monkeys that look
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: like Mexican. There's jaguars, you know, either the jaguars ice
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: age or it comes from south from Central America or Mexico.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: So a lot of the symbols and clans represent this
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: long distance trade or or at least knowledge of these
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: other clan symbols.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you said jaguars before, it made me think
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: of like like Apocalypto. But yeah, but like that type
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: of stuff, like yeah, places like like Messo American ship,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Kathy Power. That's interesting that I love that animal. Do
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: you ever you know what that animal is?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Jud Yeah, there's very cute, very.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Cute yo, and like nothing fucks with them, like no, no,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: but like it even shows them. I don't know if
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: it's alligators or crocodiles, and I'll screw that up. But
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: like they'll like walk through them, and they'll move out
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: of the way for them and won't even bald them.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: It's like just so unreal, how like nothing really attacks
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: those animals, Like they're so chill. They're just saying, eh,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: not even bald with that guy. I don't know. Pretty interesting,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And I wonder if I just find it interesting that
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: that animal you said that you found. I guess they
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: have like carvings of.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the carvings of the the jaguar, the
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: katy Burrah, there's even emu carvings. There's just an incredible
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: variety of clay cybles shown, you know, all throughout from
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: all through the world.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, lady on Instagram who had like two of them,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: like they'd come in the house and everything, and some
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: on the couch.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I was like, I didn't know there were rodents though.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, neither did I. Uh. Yeah, I was gonna say,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: is that I feel like, you know, I mean, maybe
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: sometimes you just know there are cool animals. But I
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: do think a lot of times in symbolism, I think
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: when certain animals when they stick when they decide to
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: start drawing animals like over and over again, kind of
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: like in Egypt. I do think there's something specific to
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: that animal that they also find very unusual, not human
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: like or extrasensory. That maybe that's why they kind of
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: pick those animals. There's something special about them, So I
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: find that interesting that animal.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the connection with all these animals being chosen for
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: their clans, I mean, there's a story that is it
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: goes that they would identify their clean that would be
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: the first animal that they would connect with or see
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: that would become their clean symbol. They would then choose
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: that sometime on a vision quest or a path where
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: they go from from juvenile to adulthood, they would decide
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: as to what their claim was and choose that as
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: part of their initiation to the tribe.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Actually, that actually makes sense because you will find those
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: type of rituals and traditions throughout it didn't matter all
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: from all the way north, all the way down to
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: the tip of South America. So it does make sense
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: that there's there was communication between them. And Darlene's mentioned
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: that it's said that the old in the Old world
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: of North America. It was everything was accessible through some
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: sort of a highway system of the rivers. So the
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: rivers were key to their which actually makes sense why
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: that river is right by that shrine.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, that's a way of transportation. If you
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: think about you know, you didn't have you sit of
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: the subways, use the waterways, you know what I'm saying.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: That's right bad to get somewhere. I mean's you know,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: you may not have you made you know, you may
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: not know exactly what you're facing, but if you got
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: enough bulls to do it, you don't get in there
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: and see if you can make it down.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. They had all these different clan symbols. There was
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: the bear, the bird, turtles, wildcat, panthers, snakes, canines, dogs
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: and wolves, animism. There were a lot of human fingerings
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: as well, little stone figurines. There were panels or pallettes, tablets,
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: you know, shown a lot of them. People the people
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: have been depicted as folks smoking. There were pipes and
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: everything as well. There were quartz bowls and cups and
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: like I mentioned, the cross thatched boats and the cooking
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: stones often were made of steel tight with a hole
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: through it. There were some that looked like cloves, you
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: know that there were like you were literally deer figurines
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: or animal scenes. Thunderbird there were thunderbird figurings as well,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: everything imaginable. I mean there was. There's some more pictures
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: kind of showing, uh, generally what the quartz bowls were
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: looking like. There were stone balls and pipes and axes,
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: are salts. A lot of beads were found as well.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: You know, I have to say that bottery is kind
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: of rather impressive for as old as it is. I mean,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: maybe i'ah to get too much into it, but that
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: is actually just my opinion. If it does look like that,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: that's pretty fine, Like that's impressive.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Well again, these are actually just created images from AI.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: But but the depiction is there to show what was found.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: Like that they identified a quartz bowl, was found a
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: stone ball, so I would.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Even think making a bowl out of quartz is kind
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: of assive.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the courts it was described as veined court. That's
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: that was one of the first things they found, and
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: so it must have been sitting there like on the
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: surface when they walked up to it.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Do they test a silly question, did they test the
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: pipe to say if there was anything in it like
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: good did they test it for like chemicals that might
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: have been left over?
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: That's a good question. I really think they should because
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: when I was at the museum and I smelled the
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: pipe and it's smelled by smoke, I mean there's there's
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: definitely residue in there that could be tested and it
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: just hasn't been tested. It would be great to determine
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: what the what the material is a composition.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: The less ahead.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Why do you think they're reluctant to do these tests.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: I think it's because they don't want people to know
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: about it, and it would just open up so many questions,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I think also it would also prove them wrong on
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: what they have been telling us for decades. Yes, the
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: tribe to isolate actually with this shrine, if what I'm
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: assuming is correct, proves all that wrong. And they were
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: a little bit more sophisticated within their communication within within
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: these different tribes than they have been given credit for.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. It would. It would prove intercontinental contact
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: with you know, with people that had camels and Rhino's rhinoceroses,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: you know. Either that or it would prove a time
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: frame that lead people living here in the ice age.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: You know, there's it would just open up a lot
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: of questions. I don't think they want those questions asked,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: and so keep it in a Sworge locker. And well, look,
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: this is the list of all the ones that have
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: gone missing. The catalog here shows all the these were
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: numbered artifacts in their collection that are no longer there.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: So these these have uh, these have been taken away
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: by somebody over the between the time they numbered them
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: and today.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, you got a hippo that looks like
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: a hippopotamus. I don't know.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, yeah, absolutely, there's there's hippopotamuses. There's they're not
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: from North Carolina.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: They're not in North Carolina.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Right. There's hand figurines, foot legging figurines, and human figurines
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: of all sorts. Pipes, there's a lot of like these
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: perforated type of vessels or steetyde objects, access wedges, all
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: kinds of things.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, can do you remember off the top of
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: your head what hippoponamous Where hippopotamuses are native too? Because
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think they're in South America either, South Africa.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: That's what I thought. So Wow. All I'm gonna say
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: is wow.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: I I was thinking this earlier during your presentation, but
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: that site might actually might have been the Native Americans
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: version of the United Nations.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there was there was so much there
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: and this this slide shows some of the excavation descriptions
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: from the excavations that they found buried burned skeletons on
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: a on a side of a mound. They found small
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: skeletons with grave goods and terrapin shells.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Did you ever show this stuff to Jason Shaman?
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, yeah, Seaman. I've been communicating with Shaman, And.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Did he tell you that the mound that he found
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: over by him was almost basically shaped just like this? Yeah, dude,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: if you take out the bones, the mountain looks just
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: like that. It was like calved. There was a mound
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: made and then the back of it like got carved
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: into and dug into the ground like you actually kind
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: of like go into the mound. To an extent, it's weird.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: The backside this.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: One, there was skeletons of child underneath a hearth the
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: hard floor, and it was in an envelope of clay.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was thinking that might have been somebody buried there.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: And there was a kneeling too, kneeling skeletons describing a
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: mountain called mccomb's Mound.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Any elogated skulls, thanks Felix, Not.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: That I know of. But the skull that that was
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: depicted earlier was, uh, was the one that had peered,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: appeared to have been shot or blown up after death,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: you know, a post mortem damage. And this one had
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: beads and shells underneath the burial, and it was in
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: a sitting up position. And this was called Smathers Mound.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: And then the next mound this so there was Wells Farm.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: Wells Mound had a sitting skeleton. I mean, this is
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: how they were buried. All of these different burials right
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: on that site. We're all fountains. He says. They were
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: found in nineteen eighty from November nineteen eighty to January
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: eighteen eighty one February, all of these were dug up
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: and there were stone box burial stone box grades as well,
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: rock coffins and stone box walls. All these were found
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty or eighteen eighty.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, maybe it's me, but that's
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: almost like a oh gosh, I can't say the word correctly.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: So the Egyptian sarcophagus, yes, thank you.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Clay coffins like sarcophagus, Yeah, blue blue clay pots
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: were described to so these are actual blue play with
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: bears teeth in them.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Nick, I don't remember her name.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Uh, Darlene maybe.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Darlene, Yes, with what we what Darlene shared with us,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: And with this there was definitely, I, without a doubt
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: at this point believed that throughout the world there was
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: at least on this side of the world, there was intermingling.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at least I think it shows that at least
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: people came over here, like you're saying, yeah, for sure,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: way before them we were expected to believe.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Looking, these were described as you know, giant
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: blue clay uh pots I guess, filled with ashes and
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: coal and brown earth and different sizes post holes and
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: so these were containing bears to eeth and all kinds
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: of things. And then they had wooden burial elements as well,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: like wooden coffin not confirmed, but it was described as
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: being found in a trough with layers of wooden structural elements.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Do you know what direction those gloons are facing.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: It didn't say in particular, but the mound itself was
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: surveyed with the ground penetrating radar on Chiefiz and it
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: was determined to be north and south in orientation.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: And so there was pottery, a lot of this was
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: like a giant rock wall that had been dug up,
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: and they found all these underneath it. So it's it's
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: thought that the plausible reconstruction it was a stone mountain
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: basically with a central chamber filled with offerings in the wall.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Underneath the wall there were there were all these artifacts found.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: And then interestingly, the chiefs the Cherokee were interviewed in
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: the articles and it said Chiefs bushy Head and Chief
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Smith both said that the images found were rain maker images.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: They were basically there to provide to bring the rain,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: and they were real relics described as linking the medicine
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: men to rainmaking practices.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Those mounds is so interesting, especially those hollowed out ones,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: with those made ones like I doubt it's the same
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: thing as even being going on back then with any
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: of these well, the ones that I like hollowed or
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: that you could walk into. It's just one of the
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: images that you showed looked a lot like you know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: when Tycho brahe was doing reading the stars, he built
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: things into the ground and then would view him and
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: it would almost look like a mountains, like little mounds
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: on his property because he went down, because then it
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: would stop, like if you were trying to view something
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: and he was using like wooden shit just to get sightlines.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: The wind ain't gonna fuck it up or move it
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: or anything, so it's more accurate. But like, it almost
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: looks like some of them almost looked like that you
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: were showing. I know, I understand that those like are
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: not the real things, the reinterpretations, but it looked a
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: lot like his mountains that he was building to view
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: the stars with as well.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, there's a lot of well, a lot of
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: evidence that it was our astronomical site, like archaeo astronomy
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: was important apparently because of the north south orientation and
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: the north south orientation and as well as magnetic north
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: was a symbol was a line that was built into
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: Cochin amounts as well. So you know, I had started
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: out researching about Cookie Mounts and I found out that
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: the entire site axis is based on the magnetic north line,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: which is exactly how they constructed the central axis of
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: the Cochi Mountains in alignment with the magnetic north.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I like Donnellan's questions, basically, where's Joseph Smith and
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: all this ship?
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: You know who he is, Vince Joseph Smith. I guess
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: he's the in the Mormons.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's got you know, is that
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: whole story's got you know, Native American tribes and shit
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: if you look into it.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I don't know that much about it
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: other than I don't think this is directly attributed to
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: the Mormons.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: No, No, I'm just playing around. It's like, you know,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: he should be around here somewhere.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah. But Osborne, these are the letters that he wrote,
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: and I was mentioning I was able to transcribe these
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: all with AI now, and it's amazing. They're calligraphy writing.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: I could hardly read it, but you plug it into
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: AI and it translated translates it correctly into English. And
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: so all these stats are from the letters that Osborne wrote,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: who he wrote them to, and when he wrote them,
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: And these are the writers of the letters. It talks
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: about the groups, the quantity of letters through time, and
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: and this this map, those graph shows how many letters
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: he wrote and when when the important events happened, and
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: the relationship the letter. They can even read the relationships.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Whether it's a positive letter or a negative letter, it
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: can tell you. And so this graph here depicts the
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: letters that are positive and the ones that are negative.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: And guess what the negative ones were to the Smithsonian. Basically,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: all the Smithsonian letters are negative, but the other the
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: majority of all the others are positive. And so the
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: summary for the anti authenticity argument is that this is
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: an institutional conflict. It's basically one museum versus another. They
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: both want the business. They didn't want the other one
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: to succeed, so they undermined each other. And there's evidence
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: that even Valentine tried to undermine the Smithsonian and the
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Smithsonian tried to undermine him. So I mean, it was
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: a few going back and forth, like for example, when
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: Valentine brought artifacts to see the Smithsonian and Charles Raw,
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: he brought some fake artifacts with them, knowing they were fake,
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: and he showed them to Charles Raw and said, you
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: know what's this? And Charles Rau was like this can't
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: be real, and he said, oh, I know, it's not.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: How I was just trying to test you. And basically
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: so he was trying to trick him, you know, doing
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: the trickster thing of tricking him into being able to
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: see if he could tell whether something was real or not.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: And I think that affected their relationship materially. You know,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: they didn't at that point, they didn't get along because
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: they were basically trying to trick each other or undermine
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: each other. And and so there's a lot of positive
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: relationships and letters in the letters that are described like that,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: they found a lot of good compliments and endorsement of
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: the people. They were happy with the site. And basically
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: Osborne was the facilitator of all this. Valentine was the
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: collector or patron of the museum, paying Osborne to do
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: the archaeology. He had contracted these other people people to
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: help to collect the artifacts, and like Marrit Burnett, and
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: when these people were local landowners and aj Osbourne worked
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: with the landowners to try to get these artifacts collected
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: and preserved. In the Native Contacts, we talked about Bushy
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Head who said these are for rain making from the
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: medicine men and these are other people that lived that
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: were attributed associated with the letters that he wrote. And
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: then there's a I was able to correlate the photo
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: bucket album with the site as well, just to show
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: that I was able to add detail to the catalog
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: from the photo photos that I took at the end
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: photo bucket to show the artifacts. Some of them like
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: this one is an eight stem pipe bowl, so literally
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: it has eight pipe stems coming out of this pipe
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: bowl that was first smoking. There's bannerstones, hand figurines.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: You gotta you gotta test that one. There was more
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: than tobacco with that.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: I'm sure, yeah, something really good in there. And and
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: then so there's there's so many different types. There's a
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: lot most majority are animals, but then there's vessels, containers.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: A lot of the vessels and containers and bowls they
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: actually have faces on them or cross hatching and they're
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: covered with objects indicating that they're living, you know, like
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: the cross hatching vessels. There's handles, there's some square vessels.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: This is you know that this is the total figurine.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: So I mean, I can show you any detail if
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: you want me to stop. But there's like square vessels
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: round vessels. So like all these different rectangular vessels, there's circular,
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: there's some that have handles, figuringes with vessels with human
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: figurines holding hands around the outside of the vessels. There's
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: bowls and square, square vessels of all different shapes and sizes.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: We do have a comment though, with all these different
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: animal figurines. These vessels honestly should be and it should
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: have been done decades ago, tested for where the source
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: of the materials.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's that's a good comment. I mean it's true
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: there it would be amazing to dis source the materials,
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: and and the technology is there now. There's there's a
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: device that they can it's a handheld device and it
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: can determine the material composition based on the late beam. Basically,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: it determines the composition element elements in the material and
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: it can determine where that material came from with a
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: click of a button. And I asked if I could
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: use that, and the museum said no. Does it give
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: you a reason why they they wouldn't. They didn't want to.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: I mean they didn't say why, they just wouldn't allow it.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: You know, it's a non destructive test. It would be
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: easy and quick and they wouldn't allow it. And you
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: can see some of them are coated with red ochre
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: like this reddish color bowles. All of these bolt pottery
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: bowls have some of them have zigzag pattern like lightning.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: You know. This is the nine hundred and seventy eight
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: remaining objects that I'm showing you because there's just so many.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: But how many did you say was missing?
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: There's I think it was around thirty or forty had
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: had the list of the beginning of this. But see
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: then there's like square boxes alls that was like a
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: canoe figurine here looks like and then a lot of
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: these vessels are shaped like you know, pip of pottery
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: with different angles, and there are different colors that apparently
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: summer charred and others are red ochre coated. There's something
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: that have faces on the side of them like that.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: It looks like you're flipping through an Etsy page. Yeah,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: you know, was there any somebody did ask? Is that
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: actually just a question? Was there any fingerprints extracted, you
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: know from any of this stuff?
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: I haven't. I'm not sure.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I mean fingerprints, yeah, but I'm thinking out of it
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: is like I wonder if there was a print left
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: in the clay. More of like that than that that
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: it's actually like, you know, there was a fingerprint LEFTI.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Come to think of it. T R. Kidder was given
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: the presentation one time over at Saint Louis about Poverty Point,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: and he said, one of his favorite discoveries, that's a
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: fingerprint in the in the clay, like of a pottery vessel.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: He said, he just thought it was amazing that the
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: clay could preserve pottery fingerprint. And I'll never forget that.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean that that's an example of of
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: it actually surviving with a fingerprint. Also, oh, go ahead now.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Also Margaret also asked, because I think it was Margaret
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: you took that from Nick.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Oh might have been. Yeah, that's sure, it's somewhere.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: And she has another question. She said, any wheel thrown
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: or oil all coil slab work found?
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Well, that one that I showed here, I'll go back
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: up to it. This one over here, number two five eight,
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: that looks like it's thrown on a wheel. I mean
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: it's it's got a flat bottom, sides are tapering. This
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: one it looks to me like and I expected this
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: one in person, I thought, how could that be. I
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: mean it looks like it's thrown on a wheel. But yeah,
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: that one in particular. You know some of these almost
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: look yeah, they look like they're wheel thrown like this.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: I mean it's possible. It describes it as a concave
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: base wide at the bottom, sides, narrow to your shoulder,
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: straight neck, all exterior plane except for a smooth decoration.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean it's possible they had the wheel
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: to throw the pottery.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I never would have thought. I thought that.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have either.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: This is one of those that I think might be
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: a Mason symbol with an eye, and this could be
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: like the Mason uh, like a free Mason uh device,
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: and then the shrine symbol here, So I think that
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: this one in particular maybe Mason still Mason attributed. There's
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: all the all different kinds of animal figurines, human figurines
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: of all sorts.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Look at those those figures, those go go back up
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: again if you don't mind. Those are pretty well looking.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like this one looks like they have a pot
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: on their head. They're holding their hands up and having
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: holding a pot.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I just realized, you know a lot of people always
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: say no matter where you go in the world and
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: you find these out of artifacts, they look similar. This
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: could be the reason why, and this site probably explains that.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's true, and you're right. They there's a
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: lot of similarity around the world. I mean Egypt and
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: even Australia uses similar motifs and symbols and the use
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: the cross hatching at both those places. So yeah, it's
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: amazing the similarities.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: And actually there's so many tests that needs to be done,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: especially carbon dating, especially with the one with the wheel one.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: It'll tell you how far back they have been using
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: such a tool.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. If they at radiocarbon date even a
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: few micrograms from the inside of these or the pipes,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: that would tell them so much.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I have to ask you, how long have you been
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: doing this research?
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: Since about two thousand and three, so twenty three years.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: And you feel like you just hit the tip of
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: the iceberg.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean the thing is, it's like all this exists,
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: but they won't allow anyone to study it, or they
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: won't allow any testing done on these artifacts to actually
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: determine a material, age or property. So so much as
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: a mystery. I mean, I've always liked mysteries. This is
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: a pretty big mystery. And like I mentioned, it's kind
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: of like a rabbit hole. I mean some of these
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: are a bright yellow ochre material, like as they call us,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: a bird figurine, and there's all different kinds of birds
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: represented and human figurines. They look like sheef seated on
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: a throne. How about this one you mentioned aliens. I
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: mean that's kind of an alien looking one right there.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: They call it a human figurine, but I think that
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: looks more alien.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of does. Actually with that head.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Here's a thunderbird type of motif winged being. And then
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: they start getting into a pair of couple figurines, you know,
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: two people people sitting on thrones and chairs. H m hm.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: That one kind of looks like Venus, you know, venus
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: figurine but just sitting kneeling m hm.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: These figurines are really interesting.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of human figurines. Pipe smoking human that's
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: laying down and some of them have what it's like
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: dresses on, like you know dresses and one person holding
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: their hand up, so there's one that's saluting.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: And then people smoking pipes. These are these are pipe
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: smoking depictions. And this one's like a Mayan bore figurine
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: humans riding horses. There's there's a several figurines showing that.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: You know, this one looks like they're wearing armor. I
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: looked at this one close up and it's it's literally
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: like plated armor and an armor helmet.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Would you think they would it was a close resemble
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: resembles It resembles a Conquista door.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, possibly a Canqista door or China Chinese Ming dynasty
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: at armor. This one is a riding side saddle. It's
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: it's actually a woman is sitting side saddle on a
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: horse or a four laded, four legged figure riding and
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: it's depicted on a platform. And then look at this pipe.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: It's bigger than the person themselves, and it's like this
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: giant piper bowl that's in the middle. There's a lot
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: of them that are depicted smoking pipes as well, like
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: ceremonial pipes and figure in shaking hands.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they really need to test those. Not that I'm like, oh,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: you know, pro drugs, it's just I have I have noticed,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: just read even recently and probably in the last year,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: like how many different areas where like certain things have
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: been tested recently and they're like, oh, we found THC
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: in this person's pipe, We found THC at this site.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: We sound the found these like you know areas where
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: they're burning massive amounts of stuff or ritual sites. Oh
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: there was weed in there too.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be really interesting to test it and
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: find out what's in there. And it could just be
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: a swamp that would take it, wouldn't it wouldn't destroy it. Yeah, No, sure,
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: quick test that could be done. And some of them
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: are cracked like these These actually had been cracked in
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: half and there's red color inside the fresh cracks, like
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: the heat treatment would have been very high to change
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: the color to red like that. And so the bears
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: were very numerous in this collection. Those high of the animals.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: There were more bears than any other animal. In some rabbits.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: There was quite a bit of rabbits depicted.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Those bears, Yeah, bears.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: They seem to be holding onto something and I think
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: it represents shrine or these objects depicted were cross hatched
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: with whatever they were holding on to. It was like
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: a cross hatched slab.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right right, it looks like like a tablet something.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: And they had long noses that were very detailed with
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: cross hatching.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're almost all the bears, like half of them,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: at least almost all of them up there. They were
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: all kind of doing the same ship with something in
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: their hands. They had to be depicting something, you know.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they looked like hogs or pigs.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Mhm.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: And this one's a sheep over here, I guess. And
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: so they're all different, but they're they're so unique and
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: they really have the artistry. Here's the one that's supposed
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: to be a rhino. It used to have a horn
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: on the middle here that projected up about an inch,
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: but that broke off.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: So these things weren't handled correctly as well.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Right, they've been mishandled and broken. I mean the fresh
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: cracks that's because someone dropped it and broke it, broke
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: it in their collection, and they smashed the horn off
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: the rhino. I mean it's like that. It's terrible. They've
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: been mishandled for over one hundred years, broken and displaced
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: and lost many times, Like there's so many that have
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: gone missing. Bison are depicted quite a bit, and you know,
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: the sacred bison was important, and some like this are
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: almost like a unicorn looking thing.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: And are these at the Smithsonian.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well there's thirty of them met the Smithsonian in
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: the nine hundred and seventy here are from the Valentine Museum,
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: and then there's about six hundred at the University of
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: North Carolina. Yeah, there was a lot of these things,
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: all different kinds of animals and animal heads like they
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: were depicted bears, all kinds of animals that look like
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: what that might be a lion or something. And then
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: there's aquatic animals too, like that looks almost like an
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: otter swimming. And they had squirrels or skunks depicted as well.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: And fish. There was a lot of fish figurines. There's
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: a flounder. This is a flat flounder figuring, and whales
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: almost uh nar wals. This one has dots like a narwhal.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: A bull. This one has a like a rightino or
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: bowl figuring turtles. There's a lot of turtle figurines as well.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: Serpent There's lots of snake figurines, and even spiders. This
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: is like a daddy long leg spider figurine. There's birds
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: of all sorts. This this one could be a lean
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: or this one and yeah, a lot of bird figurines
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: here of different varieties.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: You could admire the accuracy all these figures as well. Yes,
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: oh there's a lot of great in making them.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the accuracy and I mean even just to see
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: it with a blurry image, it's just amazing, but to
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: see it close up is even more amazing. The artistry
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: and accuracy that went into these is incredible. They have
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: like a tactile quality that is impressive to see, and
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: they're all different of a high level of quality. All
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: the pipes are amazing too, there's so many pipes and
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: then it starts getting into perforated vessels. These are like
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: the ones at Poverty Point perforated because then what the
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: would do is they put it in a fire and
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: they'd stick a stick in there to be able to
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: take it out of the fire. Once it heats up,
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: then they would heat put it in the water and
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: boil the water. So these are for the heating elements
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: on cooking food. And these are similar ones haven't found
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: that Poverty Point that are carved into effigies and doughnuts
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: stones as well, the same thing they were using for cooking.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: And this one's like eight there's eight holes in this
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: one similar shaped like arrowheads with faces and access And
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: this is the one that I sent a picture of
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: the other day with the Muscogee chief depicted. These are
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: vessels cylindrical vessels, but they are hollow and they almost
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: look like they're thrown pottery. But yeah, they're actually hollowed
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: out in the in the middle to be able to
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: hold the liquid. And the pentagonal type of vessels, i
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: mean pentagonal steatite with a whole drilled through, were important
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: because that seems to be common to the Savannah River,
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: Georgia site area. They had similar types that were used
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: in heating of liquid and boiling water. And this one
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: is almost the tray but it has a similar pentagonal
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: shape and then there's effigies with toads or frogs inside there.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: It's almost like they were using these two depict a
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: frog in a bowl and that is something associated with
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: the hallucination qualities from toads in like the Sahara toad.
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: They were they were they were to use this in
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: shaman ceremonies to hallucinate.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, Barty time, Yeah, that's where they had the hookah
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: piece over there, that that thing for the hookah.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: All kinds of accidents. This is a bannerstone called a
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: lunar crescent bannerstone, and that's it. There's other ones are
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: just fragments that they bagged up.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that was a lot of stuff.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, hopefully and overwhelming. I just wanted to.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Show, no I did some of that stuff actually looked
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: really impressive, like those figurines actually do think those things
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: are really nice.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And if anybody wants to see the the slides
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: on the letters that that Osborne sent and kind of
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: dig into it, well it's available now online. You can
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: just click on this the link to the script that's
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: provided in the chat and and then you can read
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: read it all and it's it's got amazing details about
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: what they found.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: It's actually quite amazing how you could connect the dots
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: with other people who have done similar research to you
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: in other locations.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. Yeah. The the research has been interesting
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: to connect it to the Australian cultures in the North
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: part of Australia and also even Africa. There's a lot
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: of similarities in Africa. The the Ivory Coast area of
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: Africa has similar types of figurines that were made of
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: steetype and they were in honor of their chiefs, and
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: they often covered in with cross hatching. So same material,
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: same subject matter, but just very far apart in the world.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: And hopefully this will help people to just study the
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: past and learn about the possible connections that that the world.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: You know, it's not that far apart and everyone was
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: related in some way.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think it shows that that's that area
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: looking at for sure. I think it shows a whole
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: bunch of stuff coming together. Something was going on.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: Definitely.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was really Uh, that was really interesting. Jens,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Is there anything else that that you're still working on now,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: any other like things or with this situation? It was
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: just kind of like up to date, that's what you've
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: been doing.
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: That's well, that's the latest up to date information I
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: do I have been checking. Like one of the really
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: interesting things on the AI is now we're able to
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: track time and do an analysis quickly, and you can
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: use the AI to determine quantity versus time graphs and
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: determine how things have changed through time. So I'll share
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: I'll share my screen here and show kind of the
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: what I've found out about this is this clan symbol
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: distribution map here shows the quantity of bear clans, the
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: quantity of birds, wolves, hooved animals and snakes well. So
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: these are the locations that those those clan symbols are located,
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: usually around Lake Superior, the Ojibway up here, and then
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: the Muskoki Kahoki had the bird man and the Yuchi
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: and the Gualle had clan symbols. And this shows the
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: position into the position is shown in blue. So when
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: they were made is on this graph, so it's six
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: hundred eighty all the way up to two thousand. The
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: quantity has is shown here in blue and then so
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: it shows that they actually started increasing production in orange
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: here and then decreased it around the year twelve hundred
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: and then stuff from that point on they slowed down
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: production of the clan symbols that were used. And so
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: but these these symbols were used like shows here. The
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: bear was wasn't in the Jibway and the only two
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: places were Lake Superior and Mount Pishka. For the bird
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: it was at Kahokia, Mount Pishka, the Yuchi and the
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: Gualle and for the wolf it was found in Lake
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: Superior in Mount Pishka Lake Superior, and the hooked animals
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: were found in Lake Superior in Mount Pishka. So there's
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: only two places that they've really been found. And even
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: though Lake Superior is the center for plans, well, Mount
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Pishka was the like the outpost, the southern outposts and
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: the turtles, they relate to Kahokia, Mount Pishka and Lake Superior.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: The Muskoki used the small rare animals and so they
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: related to the Yuchi, the Gualle and uh so that
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: this that that helps to come up with this graph here.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: So the quantity versus time basically visibility count the number
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: of clan symbols that were found at the specific times
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: can be charted here, Like there's in the times that
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: they're so around twelve fifty, there's over thirty animals that
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: were bears that they found as far as the clan symbols.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: And so then it's interesting because you can make a
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: quantity versus time graph and then do a derivative to
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: determine when it was made and how it changed through time.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: And so what I did is I used this I
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: made derivatives for all of these different clan symbols to
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: determine when they were made and how it changed, and
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: they seem to change pretty similarly for each of the
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: clan symbols, the wolf symbol, the Wolf clan, the Hook clan,
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: they all seem to have similar type of changes, just
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: different quantities through time. So they really show a peak
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: around one thousand to fourteen fifty and after that point
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: they dropped off. And so that that's useful because it
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: really dates the symbols to pre contact for the majority
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: of the production. And then Gerald Wisnor is an author
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: that really was into this position and time and how
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: things change with velocity, and so he gave the message
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: that these should be used against dominance and towards sovereignty
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: and the clans that he developed that he thinks these
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: fall into are shown here that each of these represents
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: our modern representation of the clans of what it's like
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: today for the tribes in the timeline. He came up
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: with these ideas from nineteen sixty four to nineteen ninety
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: two and wrote about it in a lot of articles,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: and he attributed these to you know, Columbus crossing over
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: to the White Earth subdivision. And then also there's some
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: links to China as well as the japan Haiku, and
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: so there's connections as well. And so the thing that
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: tells us is that visibility has a growth in decline
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: and inflection shows when the culture has changed through time.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: And you can apply that to the different technologies like
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: microblade technology. When was it made and how to change?
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: So this tells us that it increased through time and
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: then decreased. The peak was around one thousand BC, and
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: the velocity represents the production of microblades, so if it's
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: below zero, they weren't producing and then if it's above one,
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: above zero, then they were producing it. So they started
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: to increase this peak around two thousand BC all the
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: way up to about zero or one eighty or so.
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: That's when they made the most microblades. And then there's
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: connections here to the the other things like celts. Well,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: the celts. This is a production scale for celts six
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: thousand to two six thousand BC to two thousand and
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: eighty I mean to current time basically, and so it
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: shows the production through time and how it changed for celts.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: For stone working tools, coin finds basically that's zero, that's flat.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: Any loom finds for like loom woven brocades are shown here,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: and then there's meteorite finds through time how they change
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: in archaeological context, fiance beads. There's bannerstone finds how they
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: change your time. And this is interesting because it correlates
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: with the bone and arrow adoption. So when they use bannerstones,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: it was before the bone arrow it started to decrease
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: because of climate stress and four point two thousand years
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: ago and then they dropped off. This one shows the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: steotype vessel manufacturer. So we saw those pottery vessels. Well,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: steo type vessels peaked around one thousand BC and then
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: they dropped off right when pottery was adopted. So pottery
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: started around five hundred BC and it replaced stea type
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: and it shows here that production stopped because it goes
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: below zero and they deaccelerated. And then grooed plummets was
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: around starting around fifteen hundred going to one thousand eighty.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: The tony signs we were talking about, they started around
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: one thousand BC, went up to four hundred and eighty
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: and they changed after Roman conquest. So these bars line
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: up with world history events that kind of shows that
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: the quantity versus time reflects what's going on in the world.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: The murr archaeological finds, well, there's only been four places
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: in the world that mr has ever been found, and
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: it's very uncommon. Lam Mono. This is an interesting carve
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: because it shows sharks to clubs found in Polynesia, how
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: they increase to a high production. Twenty two thousand, five
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: hundred clubs were found that were made of sharks teeth
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: and then they decreased and they aligned with chiefly warfare
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: causing decrease in the European conquests and firearms replacing them.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: Carrie shells cross hatching symbolism. When we're talking about cross hatching,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: but let's just increase through time. It's always constantly increased.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: And so yeah, those charts and graphs are based on
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: the actual data that you can just plug into AI
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: and it automatically creates a data curve. And we were
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: talking about the African connection. Well, Luba people of Central
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: Africa had figurines called memory boards lucasa, and they used
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: those to transmit stories and keepers of memory, just like
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: we were seeing all the boards women in spiritual vessels.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: They would use these and they went from the fifth century.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: All the way up to the nineteen hundreds in eighteenth
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: century preserving the history, and this is their curve about
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: the time on when they were made. Starting around the
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: sixteenth century, they increased production and they decreased, so their
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: peak of production was around eighteen hundred or no, I'm sorry,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: seventeen hundred, so this is seventeen hundred. And then at
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: eighteen hundred they dropped off and declined and they stopped
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: producing them. And then this is the Georgia and Florida cultures.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: So they had a peak of around two thousand BC
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: and then it decreased. So it kind of puts a
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: timeframe lens on what we're seeing here with early cultural
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: peak that occurred in the Archaic period around two thousand BC.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: And the same thing goes with the South American We
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: were talking about South American figurines, but those are found
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: all over the coast of South America. They had the
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: same cross hatching and they were found in all these
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: places corl Asperro Toora. These are found that started around
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: three thousand BC and they went all the way up
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: to about seven hundred and fifty BC. So then we
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: talked about mass Aton and mammoths, well, they go back
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: to thirty eight thousand BC, and there's evidence of white
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: scenes footprints in New Mexico and Clovis's that were found
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: as well that had human culture that were from the
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: Ice Age time thirty eight thousand years ago. So this
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: craft shows what that culture looks like. So that's it.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, the timeframe is amazing just to consider thirty
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: eight thousand years ago people were living here in Colorado Plateau.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: That's amazing the way everything connects to and how far
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: back it does. That right there, I could tell you
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: the history that goes along with the history of what
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: was going around the world too, the coincides.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's amazing. I think I have all the all
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: the cultural connection there around the world. It's like it's
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: probably very yeah, but yeah, thank you so much for
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: having me.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you man. That was a lot of stuff
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: that was awesome. Even that dating at the end was
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: like really impressive. It shows like a lot of stuff.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: I'd say between I don't know, sixteen hundred to two
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: thousand BC, seems a lot going on in that area.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: I would say with like the stuff we were looking
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: at and say, it all seems to fit in around there.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: I could see how it could took you twenty one
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: years and then you still got more to look at.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my gosh, there's so well, there's so much,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: and I mean the great thing is chat GPT has
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: all this available, Like I made all those slides last
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: week in chat GPT, Like literally you can just throw
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: them together. I mean, it takes an instant and you
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: can make the information accumulate just by asking it to
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: do that because it's so automatic. It's amazing. So yeah,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: it's incredible what AI has.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: Now. That was an impressive, pressive show for real.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you wanted to say or
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: about this sight before we start to wrap it up?
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: Just thank you so much and I appreciate it talking
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: about it and it's been great.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Hopefully we stay in touch in Yeah, you'll let me
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: know when you have more stuff to present on it
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: or if you ever find something else you go crazy with,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: please let me know.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: I'll definitely check it out. Loan Judith, please everybody know
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: what's over with you.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Vince, thank you very much for sharing this information. It
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: is I could see the rabbit hole. I don't know
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: if we could just call it a rabbit hole is
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: bigger than that, but we'll just say rabbit hole. You
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: could find me at speaker X and YouTube as saloon.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: And once again, thank you Nick.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: For having me.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: No, of course, no, thank you for coming on. I
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. That was fun. That was definitely some interesting shit. Vince. Please, sir,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: let everybody know, I guess anything you want to promote
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: or if you want to let people know where to
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: get in touch with.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: You or anything, thank you. Yeah, be on available on
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: chat or I mean, if you look at the text
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: or the comments, there's a link to the slide show
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: and you can go on there and read about it.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: If you click on there, I'll have updated my slides
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: and adding new information all the time. So yeah, I
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: really appreciate it.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you. One thing I do want to ask before
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: we let you go. Have you been like trying to
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: send this or present this any of this information to
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: like people that actually like you don't matter, or they're
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: like trying to get people to look at it and
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: be like, you know, maybe there's something new.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: Well. I've been trying to get a hold of the
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: Smithsonian and the Valentine Museum and the University of North Carolina,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: and all of those are like talking to a brick
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: wall where they curate this stuff, but they won't allow
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: anyone to study it or look at it. And it's
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: partly because of Nagra. So I mean, I think NAGPRA
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: rules changed the ability to study it. So luckily I
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: got in before that rule took effect kind of and
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: I was able to study it. But I still think
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: it should be more more study done.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Well hopefully maybe you'll get somewhere with
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: it one day, maybe you know, I get something to
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: you know, looked at afterwards after this. But thank you again,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: n I think it was amazing work. I think it
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: might have been more than you did last time. That
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: was really impressive stuff.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: So thank you, thank you, appreciate it.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you everybody in the chat. I appreciate the questions too,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: and Judith, thank you for seeing him. I appreciate you
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: keeping an eye out. Great co host. Yes, thank you
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: everybody for your showing up. That's where we go live
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: and until the next one, everybody be will later