Latest / INSPIRE STORY / Details about her marriage and struggle with dark thoughts.

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Details about her marriage and struggle with dark thoughts. · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: That was a really really it's a really painful time.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Sir.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Please welcome Jada.
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: Pick it Smith.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: You want out of the pain, only way out is death.
• 0:15
  Chris comes to the end of the stage and he
• 0:17
  looks at me deeply sincerely, and he says.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: I also have a letter from Will. Before we jump
• 0:35
  into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join
• 0:38
  this community to hear more interviews that will help you
• 0:41
  become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you
• 0:45
  to do is click on the subscribe button. I love
• 0:47
  your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and
• 0:50
  we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on
• 0:53
  this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing.
• 0:56
  It means the world to me.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: The best selling author on host the number one health
• 0:59
  and will.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: On this podcast on Purpose with Jay.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Now, Jay, before we start going, can I tell a story?
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: You can?
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Okay? I gotta. I have to let your audience know
• 1:12
  how this book even became Okay, they have to know, Jay. Okay,
• 1:17
  all right, So I visit you. I'm here visiting because
• 1:22
  Swammy's here, right enough, Swamy is here, and you had
• 1:26
  often said, Jada, you should write a book. I'm like, Jay,
• 1:29
  I don't want to So this day, once again, you're like, Jada,
• 1:33
  you should write a book. I'm like, Jay, I don't
• 1:35
  want to write a book. You're like, well, you should
• 1:38
  write a book. Jay, I don't want to write a book.
• 1:40
  We're going back and forth like siblings. Roda Kough comes
• 1:43
  into the kitchen because Roddy's making a beautiful lunch for
• 1:46
  us to eat. He comes, he sits there and he goes, Jay,
• 1:48
  if Jada doesn't want to write a book, she doesn't
• 1:50
  have to write a book. And you go, well, I
• 1:52
  think she should write a book. And I was like, oh,
• 1:55
  did he just talk back to whye? But I'm going
• 1:59
  to tell you. And that was really a moment for me,
• 2:03
  right because I said, because I'd been pushing back for
• 2:06
  a long time and you talking to me about it,
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  and that moment, I was like, Okay, I need you
• 2:12
  to take that home and I need you to think
• 2:14
  about it because Jay's your brother. There's something here that
• 2:18
  you might not be seeing. And it was really that
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  moment that put me on pause. And a couple of
• 2:24
  days later, I was in meditation and it came to
• 2:27
  me and I said, oh, my goodness. My journey from
• 2:33
  unlovable to lovable is a worthy story to tell. And
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  I called you and I said, Jay, I got it.
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  Thank you for you were so persistent about it, right,
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  And I just want to thank you because honestly, and
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  I'm not you know, if it hadn't been for that moment,
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  that book wouldn't be here right now, right And you
• 2:59
  really or on my neck about it for a long time.
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  So I just want to say thank you because you
• 3:07
  also made it clear you were like you made it
• 3:11
  clear to me I would get a lot out of it,
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  and I have. So I just want to say thank you.
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  It's been such a deep healing process for me in
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  ways that I could have never imagined, you know, and
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  what you said before you know, we even started, and
• 3:28
  the introduction, you know, just that hope of it's so
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  hard to find authentic happiness in this world, even through
• 3:36
  my journey, my fifty two years and just trying to
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  figure out how to be authentically happy has been such
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  an excruciating process. And one of the purposes of this
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  book is like, if I can help in any small
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  amount of way, you know, in any way possible to
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  help somebody have an easier, or just leave like little
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  bread crumbs, kind of like not a blueprint because everybody's
• 4:07
  process is different, but just little bread crumbs of how
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  to find that for yourself, because it has been really
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  difficult for me. So thank you, thank you, thank you.
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  Speaker 3: Well, thank you for sharing that with me. And I
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  think I blocked that memory out because I don't think
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  I've ever tried to stand up against rather than sm
• 4:31
  my teaching before. I think that would so I've pretended.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: That, yeah, like that did it for me.
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  Speaker 3: Growing up reading autobiographies is what changed my life. And
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  I think one of the things that I feel we
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  struggle with today is that people's narratives are being told
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  from so many different angles apart from their own. And
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  when I grew up and I was reading the words
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  of Martin Luther King or I was reading Malcolm X,
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  I found there to be so much power in reading
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  the words directly from an individual. And so even if
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  that wasn't their autobiography, if it was their work, their words,
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  you felt so intimately connected with that person. And I
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  feel that when people move on and we don't have
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  them on the planet anymore, it's almost like you lose
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  this treasure house of experience and memories. And I also
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  think that if someone's listening or watching right now and
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  you're thinking, well, Jay, I would never write a book.
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  I'm not a public figure. I'm not a celebrity. I'm
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  not a musician or an actor. I don't have a
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  career path that means I should be an author. I
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  still think that telling your story, whether it's to your family,
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  y kids, is so important.
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  Speaker 1: I could not agree with you more. I think it's
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  actually imperative that looking at your life on the page,
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  like you forget experiences, you know, you forget like, oh
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  my goodness, I did that. Oh I've went through that.
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  Oh my god, really I came through that. It's like
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  it's almost like an homage to yourself, honestly, to really
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  be able to look at your life and go, Wow,
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  what a life. I think everybody should take some time,
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  even if it's just one like because even with Worthy,
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  I took one line which was unlovable to lovable. So
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  anything in regards to my life that was on that
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  arc I talked about, but there's so much more, so
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  many other parts of my life. Right So even if
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  somebody says, you know what, I just want to you know,
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  write down the happiest moments of my childhood and I
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  want to just look at that on paper.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: But whatever journey somebody decides to pick from from their
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  life and to examon thoroughly on the page, I would
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  definitely suggest that because it is really powerful and it's
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  so healing, and it will teach you so much about yourself.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. Let's
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  let's dive in, okay, because that journey of being unlovable
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  and lovable as you're tracing there, I think it's a
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  journey that we all have to walk in our own ways.
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  And I think when you know I met you, I
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  think five years ago. Now we've just spent a lot
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  of time together in the last five years. Hence we
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  have a deep connection. But when I first met you,
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  I was looking at you from the outside, and over
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  the last five years, I've got to know you through
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  an inner journey and you know, through family as well,
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  and through spending time with your family. And what I
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  found was that we often lose context when you view
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  someone's life from the outside, and when you get closer,
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  the greatest thing you get is context. And so I
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  wanted to start off, and this book does that so well.
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  But I want to start off of what does it
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  feel like growing up with a teenage mom who has
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  an addiction? Like I think that that is so formative
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  in so many ways, and it's so easy to forget
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  that that's where you started because of your career.
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  Speaker 1: Growing up with my mother a teenage mind, It's like
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  we grew up together. It's almost like having a big sister.
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  I mean even to this day, you know, it's like
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  it's like I get to have two roles in my mom,
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  Like sometimes she's still my big sister, and then sometimes
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  she really comes in as your as my mother, you
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  know what I mean. As you saw in the book,
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  it's like I had all this freedom, running crazy in
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  the streets, what have you. But there was such pivotal
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  moments where Adrian came to the rescue as my mother,
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  right and she still does that to this day. But
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  it was you know, I did a lot of having
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  to raise myself and there are parts of that. There's
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  pros and cons to that. There's a lot of pros.
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  It's like that is the part that made it possible
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  for me to come to LA at the age of
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  eighteen on my own and figure this Hollywood game out right,
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  just with no fear, completely fearless, but then also kind
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  of growing up with certain ideas of what I thought
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  love was, or certain survival mechanisms that you know, as
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  I got older, didn't quite serve me. But I think
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  that we all have that, no matter what our family
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  background is, you know what I'm saying, We all kind
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  of pick up things that along the way that don't
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  serve us for the entirety of our journey. I tell
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  you I learned a lot having a young mom at
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  an early age. I really do think that even with
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  our trials and our challenges, that the Great Supreme gave
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  me the mom I was supposed to have, in the
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  most perfect mother the journey that I was supposed to
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  have to prepare me for other parts of my journey.
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  But you know, it was challenging and beautiful at the
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  same time.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love gamming, so I just want to
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  put that, Yeah, we all love yam. Yeah. But it's
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  really interesting. There's one line in your book that really
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  kind of cemented that feeling of unlovable to me from
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  that time, and you said, there was a time when
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  you felt like you were not being a priority to
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  the two people who gave you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was hard.
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  Speaker 3: That really hit me because I was like.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was probably really difficult, and like you had
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  two parents who drugs were their focus and the lifestyle
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  that came with it.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 1: I also talk about in the book when my father
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  told me at seven years old, I can't be your father,
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  and it's just like, wow, Okay, what do I do
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  with this?
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  Speaker 3: What does a seven year old do with that?
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  Speaker 1: You you just kind of internalize it, and you kind
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  of go, Okay, what's wrong with me? What is it
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  about me that I'm not enough for these two people
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  to look at me as a priority? Because I see
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  everybody else's parents and it looks like their kids are
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  their priority. So what's wrong with me? So you kinda
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  I internalize this idea of not being enough, not being lovable,
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  And it's strange because it's not that I didn't feel
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  like my mother didn't love me. It's just that am
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  I lovable enough to be the priority? Am I lovable
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  enough for you to show up for me as the
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  mom that I see other moms be? You know? So
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  I definitely internalize that, and I think that I took
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  that into the world of like, I'm just going to
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  prove constantly having to prove myself and I'm lovable, I'm
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  lovable enough, And I think that was some of the
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  messaging that I took from my childhood into my adulthood.
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  Speaker 3: And I appreciate you going back to that seven year
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  old self because in hindsight and now looking back, you
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  can make sense of it and you can connect the dots.
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  But it's like when you're actually in that position, it's
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  very natural, as you said, to just internalize it. And
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  I think that what's really interesting with your journey is
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  we all have to develop the emotional skills our parents
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  didn't have, and the earlier we do that, the easier
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  and simpler life becomes. But often most of our energy
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  goes in thinking, well, I wish they had them or
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  they should have had them. And when I'm listening to you,
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  what I'm hearing is that it's not even the belief
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  that they don't love me or love me enough. It's
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  the belief that somewhere inside I am not lovable. Yes, yes, right,
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  it's so inside you. It's not even about them, absolutely,
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  It's like I'm not valuable I'm not.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because that's your mirror at first, right, but
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  it's and it's so complicated and nuanced. Do I believe
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  my father loved me. Of course, in the way that
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  he could. I think that he felt the most loving
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  thing he could do was tell me I can't be
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  your father. And I respected that even at seven, because
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  I was like, at least somebody's telling me the truth.
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  I've always respected hardcore truths. That is one thing about me.
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  I respect hardcore truths. Doesn't mean I always like them,
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  but I freaking respect them at seven. At seven, that's
• 13:44
  a gangster, hardcore truth to tell a child. But then
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  at the same time that seed within me that is like,
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  well are all men like that? Like, if my dad
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  doesn't love me, how is any man gonna love me?
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  I didn't realize that at seven. That's when I started
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  getting into like sixteen seventeen, when I start, you know,
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  having those kind of intimate relationships with men and realizing, oh, wow,
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  this area is this area is quite unhealthy, you know
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  what I mean of Just like how I viewed myself,
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  I was either giving too much or not enough. I'm
• 14:27
  either hot or super cold, you know. Emotionally and so
• 14:33
  trying to regulate and understand because you know, my understanding
• 14:38
  is that a young girl's first relationship and understanding of
• 14:43
  love is with her father. I didn't have that at all.
• 14:48
  So I'm still learning. I'm still really immature in that
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  area of just emotional development around intimacy with masculinity. I
• 15:04
  know that now, whereas before I didn't know that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah you're aware, I'm not aware, Like this is just
• 15:09
  what it is.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: And then growing up in an environment with so much
• 15:13
  violence and so much aggression, and oh man, it was
• 15:16
  like what do you.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Do with all that?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: And trying to just like unpack all of it to
• 15:21
  just figure out, like, oh, life is about love. It's
• 15:25
  not about power and ego and winning and losing. I mean,
• 15:29
  it's taking me fifty I'm fifty two, just now understanding
• 15:34
  that it's been a wild ride. But you know what,
• 15:38
  every day I thank the Great Supreme for the journey
• 15:41
  and just forgiving me the awakenings, the little awakenings that
• 15:46
  I get about love and just my willingness to have it,
• 15:51
  you know, really wanting to understand what love is all about.
• 15:55
  But I do have to give my grandmother a lot
• 15:57
  of credit, Yeah, Marian, And really I had all these
• 16:02
  different seeds that were planted in me and Mary and
• 16:05
  seed that that goes to show you how the legacy
• 16:09
  of love will overpower everything. It is her. It is
• 16:13
  the legacy of love that my grandmother instilled in me,
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  and also the desire to search. She always had me
• 16:22
  understand that the world is full of treasures, get out
• 16:26
  there and find them. She instilled that in me at
• 16:30
  a very young age. And she also instilled in me
• 16:34
  that I was special. But I was her first girl child.
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  You know, I was our first grandchild.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: Excuse me, I said, you know, I was our first
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  grandchild itself.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: She she really made me think that I could be
• 16:51
  and do anything, being the child of two atticts on
• 16:54
  one side, and then my grandmother instilling in me like, no,
• 17:00
  I'm telling you you got something, kid, you know what
• 17:04
  I mean. And so just being able to hold on
• 17:07
  to those seeds that she put within me, and then
• 17:12
  of course my mother encouraging me along the way to
• 17:14
  my mother saw some really beautiful stuff in me as well,
• 17:17
  and she's been one of my biggest cheerleaders and champions
• 17:22
  throughout my life.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, if your grandmother saw you today, what would she.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Say, Oh, my goodness, my grandmother would be so proud
• 17:31
  of me through it all, like with the good and
• 17:35
  the challenges. She had a very challenging life, extremely and
• 17:42
  what she was able to make out of her life
• 17:45
  as a immigrant, you know, child of two immigrants from Jamaica.
• 17:53
  She became pregnant at thirteen. To this day, we don't
• 17:56
  know how that happened. We do believe that it was
• 17:59
  a mistake and it wasn't that she was raped or
• 18:04
  molested or you know. I never got that from her.
• 18:08
  I always got that it was her lack of knowledge
• 18:11
  about sex that created that circumstance, and she had that
• 18:16
  baby on her own. She was pretty much abandoned, and
• 18:20
  she was taken in by a family through a foster,
• 18:23
  a white family who she worked for as a maid,
• 18:26
  and got herself to Howard University and was able to
• 18:30
  go to India as an ambassador. Yeah, she went to
• 18:33
  India and came back and my grandfather, who was studying
• 18:38
  to be a doctor, asked her to get married. So
• 18:41
  I think she would be and is very proud of
• 18:45
  me with it all.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: I love that. That's that's special to feel that that, yes,
• 18:51
  look so Jada. At the start this book, you talk
• 18:56
  about how you were and this broke my heart. You
• 18:58
  were talking about how you were planning taking your life,
• 19:04
  but then how it could look like an accident.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That was twenty eleven. That was my fortieth birthday,
• 19:11
  my fortieth year.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Actually, when I was reading that, I was just thinking
• 19:14
  to myself. I was like, what were you hoping that
• 19:17
  would achieve? Like, what were you hoping that would solve
• 19:21
  toward us through that?
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because when you're in those states, you're
• 19:26
  not clear. It's not like it's going to make rational sense, right.
• 19:31
  You want out of the pain, and you cannot imagine
• 19:37
  your only way out is death. You think in your
• 19:41
  mind you've tried everything, and you're like so all like God,
• 19:46
  I can't do this, I can't keep doing this, and
• 19:48
  so that's your only solution. And I tell people all
• 19:53
  the time, you know, we've had a lot of different
• 19:57
  spotlight of people who've taken their life. People ca I
• 20:00
  cannot believe it, and I'm like, you just never know
• 20:04
  what somebody's going through. And there are certain people that
• 20:07
  have a high tolerance for being able to put on
• 20:12
  a good face in order to not burden people. But
• 20:18
  what is really interesting is that when you have a plan,
• 20:25
  sometimes that gives you enough energy to just keep going
• 20:29
  because you're like, Okay, I got a good plan, so
• 20:32
  if this gets really bad, I know where to go.
• 20:36
  And you're like, okay, I'm just going to keep trying
• 20:38
  to figure this out and keep trying to figure this out.
• 20:41
  But I got this plan. And it's really tough because
• 20:43
  you don't want to for personalities like myself, you don't
• 20:48
  want to burden anybody. And you're like, look, if I
• 20:50
  can't figure out how to get out of this, nobody
• 20:52
  else is going to be able to figure this out. Either.
• 20:55
  That was a really really peopful it's really painful time.
• 21:08
  I'm sorry.
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: I'm really grateful that I found a way out, but
• 21:16
  I think about people who that will find it, and
• 21:20
  I wish I.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Wish there was like one thing I could say, one
• 21:30
  piece of advice, you know, like what would you tell
• 21:33
  somebody in a situation like that? And all I can
• 21:37
  ever say is please just keep going, keep trying, keep walking.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Trust because if you trust, and I know how difficult
• 21:49
  it is, you know for people who are in it,
• 21:51
  like that's easy for you to say but if you
• 21:54
  keep trusting, the.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Universe will open a door. And I know how hard
• 22:01
  it is to just wake up and keep it going,
• 22:07
  because for me, it was hard just waking up in
• 22:11
  the morning. If I could get to four o'clock, I
• 22:15
  was like, Okay, you made it another day. Being able
• 22:19
  to have enough strength to just get up, get out
• 22:25
  of bed, put clothes on, get through your day, and
• 22:32
  let no one know that you're struggling. It is so hard.
• 22:38
  I feel really blessed. You know, when plant medicine came
• 22:43
  my way, it saved my life. And I know that
• 22:46
  there's still a lot of whatever around plant medicine, but
• 22:50
  I'm going to tell you like this, and I'm not
• 22:52
  saying that that's for everybody, because my way out was
• 22:58
  a rugged four nights and it was just my thoughts,
• 23:04
  thoughts about myself. It was just my self hatred. The
• 23:09
  level of self hatred you have that I have had
• 23:15
  to want to take my own life and I had
• 23:17
  to walk four nights to clear up look at be
• 23:21
  with that level of self hatred. I was like, you
• 23:25
  want to talk about walking through the valley of the
• 23:28
  Shadow of death that I'm really grateful for that experience
• 23:32
  because after that one night, I never thought about suicide
• 23:37
  again after the ceremony. After the ceremony and it was
• 23:42
  really my last resort, I was like, Okay, this has
• 23:47
  been brought my way. I'm going to try this and
• 23:49
  it worked. Praise God, Thank you. That's a really painful
• 23:55
  place for me still and just thinking about how many
• 23:59
  people are sitting in that place, it really breaks my heart.
• 24:06
  Trusting God, that's those moments where I just have to
• 24:10
  just be like, God, these are your children. You will
• 24:14
  take care and I pray that God you will provide
• 24:19
  the door you have provided for me.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Thank you for being so vulnerable with us. I want
• 24:23
  to give you a big hug.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love you. Thank you. You've been such a
• 24:33
  wonderful friend. I really have. You've been by my side
• 24:40
  through some really tough stuff, only for more time, only
• 24:45
  for more challenges to come.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: Along the way. Never you know, I wouldn't have had
• 24:49
  the fortune of getting to meet you. And I'm really
• 24:52
  glad that you. You know, we're so vulnerable with us
• 24:55
  just now, because I really feel like there's more people
• 24:59
  than we.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I think that trust and believe it, you trust and
• 25:04
  believe it. There's people, there's people that you see every
• 25:10
  day that you would never believe. It's so funny to
• 25:15
  have that level of strength and that level of vulnerability
• 25:19
  and just you know, despair and at the same time
• 25:24
  that level of like helplessness that could drive you to
• 25:28
  do something like that. But a lot of times we
• 25:31
  just don't know how to communicate it. I didn't know
• 25:35
  how one knew that the will will oh no, and
• 25:40
  they knew I was very unhappy. That wasn't a secret,
• 25:46
  and people didn't understand why either. So let's talk about
• 25:49
  that for a minute. The shame that comes with those feelings,
• 25:56
  and specifically, like everybody feels that level of shame. I
• 25:59
  don't care care what station of life you're existing in.
• 26:03
  And I would say I'm unhappy, and people would look
• 26:06
  at me like I'm crazy, what are you unhappy about?
• 26:08
  And so then I just went in even more because
• 26:12
  I was like, they're right, look what you accomplished. You've
• 26:15
  got this great family, you've got a great life, you
• 26:19
  got the house, the car, this and that. What's your problem?
• 26:25
  So then that's a hot cup of shame. So then
• 26:28
  you just I just shut down.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: That's such a great note to put out there because
• 26:33
  I think so many times we think like that about
• 26:35
  maybe our friends.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, just like you have somebody, Yeah, you have somebody. Yeah,
• 26:42
  that language can be so yeah, And I would suggest
• 26:45
  to anybody don't say that. Yeah, don't say that to
• 26:49
  somebody who's saying I'm having a tough time, I'm struggling. Yeah,
• 26:54
  this you have that, No, what's going on? Tell me
• 26:58
  help me understand.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: As ridiculous as it may sound to you, right to
• 27:03
  that person, that thought has been repeated so many times. Absolutely,
• 27:09
  even if it seems ridiculous to you.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it can be so far And I get it.
• 27:14
  But that is somebody trying to step out and talk.
• 27:22
  So we have to have we have to be receptive
• 27:25
  in not to look at it, you know. And that
• 27:28
  is like, that's tricky too, because really being able to
• 27:36
  meet somebody where they are versus trying to meet somebody
• 27:41
  where you're at, and that in itself is a skill set,
• 27:45
  just being able to go, Okay, hold it, what am
• 27:47
  I missing here? Let me just take a minute, let
• 27:50
  me blend with you, let me join you. I didn't
• 27:54
  have that, and it's nobody's fault.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: You know. I'm hoping that anyone who thinks anyone and
• 28:00
  their life is struggling, will share what you just shared
• 28:04
  with us with them to start a conversation, to open
• 28:07
  up that dialogue. Because I think you just said it
• 28:09
  now and it brought a thought to my mind that
• 28:12
  real love or real compassion is when you help someone
• 28:16
  get to the next step in their journey. Yeah, not
• 28:19
  in your journey.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: And that means being able to be present with them
• 28:26
  wherever they are. Yeah, it seems like a foreign, alien
• 28:30
  land to you. I really feel like if anyone has
• 28:33
  anyone in their life who's struggling, please send that to them,
• 28:37
  Please share that with them, because that they need to
• 28:41
  hear it from someone else who's been there. Sometimes also
• 28:44
  because if you've not been there, you don't you may
• 28:46
  not know how to say. And I think that's the
• 28:48
  other thing, right. The other side is one side is
• 28:51
  we say, oh, you should be happy, you're fine. The
• 28:53
  other side is we try and fix it.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah you can't, right, Yeah, you can't solve it. There perfect,
• 29:00
  there is no right. You can't solve it. The best
• 29:03
  that we can do is, like you can try to
• 29:06
  meet them where they are and let's get help. We
• 29:09
  can do it together and hold hands and get them
• 29:12
  to someone professional, I will say, it's really healing when
• 29:19
  someone can join you. It's also having that boundary of
• 29:25
  understanding too that you can only do but so much
• 29:28
  as well. A person has to really want help. And
• 29:34
  that's why I would tell the person that might be
• 29:37
  struggling to just stay open, to try everything, you know,
• 29:42
  mean like I tried ever rethinking until I found the thing. Yeah,
• 29:49
  and just keep walking until you find the thing.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: That obviously happens a lot later on, even though you
• 29:54
  start the book with that, but there was a time
• 29:57
  when you believed that Holly would having it.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: All, would do it, would do it, yeah, even.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Before you get to this point. And so and also
• 30:07
  what I find fascinating is you grew up where like
• 30:10
  drug dealing was normal. Ye, you were in that scene,
• 30:13
  you were meeting people. Everyone around you was in that scene.
• 30:15
  You weren't. As from what I gathered from the book
• 30:18
  in the time we've spent together, there weren't a lot
• 30:20
  of people who were breaking that mold.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: No, what was it that made you a believe that
• 30:26
  you could move to la when you were eighteen and
• 30:28
  break that mold and that you didn't have to fall
• 30:31
  into the pattern of everyone around you? And at the
• 30:35
  same time, secondly, what was it that made you believe
• 30:37
  that that would solve it, that that was what was missing?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Thank goodness. Along the way, I had great mentors like
• 30:45
  Donald Hickin, you know, at Baltimore School for the Hours.
• 30:48
  That was like, Jada, you've got more talent in the
• 30:51
  pinky of your little pinky than most people have in
• 30:53
  their whole bodies. You know that He forced me to go,
• 30:58
  you know, into that audition for North Carolina School for
• 31:01
  the Arts, and that's what got me out of Baltimore
• 31:03
  so that I could just get away from that lifestyle
• 31:08
  and break that mentality right. And then once I got
• 31:12
  immersed again into my arts, I was like, wow, I
• 31:18
  really love this. And once I click into something like
• 31:22
  my mind goes PERI, you know what I mean. And
• 31:24
  then Pop came to La. Well, he wasn't in LA
• 31:27
  he was in northern California, and Pot kept saying, you
• 31:30
  gotta get out here. It's popping, you know what I mean.
• 31:35
  And now he's like, you gotta come out here and visit,
• 31:38
  and so I was like, all right, I'm going to
• 31:40
  get out there. Pop was another one too that was
• 31:42
  just like you got it, Jada, you got it, and
• 31:46
  I'm like, all right, I'm coming. So I told my mom.
• 31:51
  I was like, you got two choices, because I still
• 31:54
  wasn't quite sure yet, you know. I was like, I
• 31:57
  could go to LA and see if I can do
• 32:00
  this Hollywood thing, or I could become a lawyer and
• 32:05
  take all my dramatics card right into the cardouse. And
• 32:11
  she said, we're going to law. Once I got to LA,
• 32:15
  I was like, you're here, make it happen. And part
• 32:19
  of what made me think that I could do it,
• 32:24
  it wasn't just about talent, but was just my perseverance
• 32:28
  and just my go I'm a pit bull when it
• 32:31
  comes to when I want something, you know, especially in
• 32:35
  my youth. I'm not so much pitfull anymore, but in
• 32:40
  my youth. You know, once I put my mind to something,
• 32:44
  I was like, go get it. And I really felt
• 32:47
  like how everybody else feels, you know, like, yo, once
• 32:50
  I make it, once I'm rich and famous, all my
• 32:54
  problems are gonna be solved, you know what I mean.
• 32:56
  My problems are gonna be solved, My mom's problems are
• 32:59
  gonna be solved. Everybody's probably gonna be solved. I got this,
• 33:02
  you know what I'm saying so, and that was a
• 33:05
  trip because that wasn't the case. And I think that
• 33:09
  that's still prevalent. People feel like once you get to
• 33:13
  a certain level of success, you are exempt from the
• 33:17
  human experience, you are exempt from the human condition. And
• 33:24
  the truth is that is not the case. And let
• 33:29
  me tell you. I had an existential drop in realizing
• 33:35
  hold it, wait a minute, hold it, like my career
• 33:41
  is popping. I got money, I'm hot, I got every
• 33:49
  dude everywhere wanting to you know what I mean, Like
• 33:52
  I can have anybody I want. Why am I not happy?
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: God?
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Now, this wasn't wasn't the plan. I couldn't believe it,
• 34:04
  because that was the whole idea. You make it, You
• 34:06
  pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, you make it
• 34:09
  in life's great and thank goodness. At that particular point
• 34:14
  of time, I had Park that I could go like,
• 34:18
  we could share that together, because he was going through
• 34:21
  the same existential disappointment. He thought the same thing. That
• 34:26
  was like the beginning of just like, wait a minute, then,
• 34:29
  if it's not this, then what is it.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: It's incredible that you had to support a friend in Tupac.
• 34:34
  You had this amazing friend who is saying, you've got this,
• 34:37
  you're talented, and that can really help. Yeah. And at
• 34:40
  the same time, there's a whole nother inner journey. Yeah,
• 34:43
  that has to happen with it. So that was externally,
• 34:45
  it was empowering, it was inspiring. It was great to
• 34:49
  have someone believe in you and we don't need that. Yeah,
• 34:51
  And at the same time, it was like this other
• 34:53
  reminder of.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: The inner world was not together yeah at all and
• 34:58
  being completely ignored, you know. And it would take me
• 35:02
  years to realize that that, Oh no, it's not just
• 35:04
  about what's happening on the outside, Jada. But if you're
• 35:07
  inner world, it's not your foundation. It's all sand castles,
• 35:13
  you know. I had a nervous breakdown. Then I moved
• 35:15
  to Baltimore. I get a farmhouse there and I'm like, okay,
• 35:18
  I'm just gonna get out of LA So I'm making
• 35:20
  a geographical move. I'm like, I just got to get
• 35:22
  back to my roots. I got to get back to
• 35:25
  my roots. And then Will comes along and I'm like,
• 35:29
  maybe that's it. I need a man, you know, and
• 35:32
  that is like latch onto that. It's like, Okay, that's
• 35:37
  my new prozac. Will you know, he's gonna now it's
• 35:42
  his job to make my life better. That doesn't work either,
• 35:47
  So the egos just attached to all these different exterior
• 35:52
  things until eventually I'm you know, I had to crash
• 35:57
  into really having to look at the shambles of my
• 36:01
  inner world and rebuild and rebuild it. And I say
• 36:05
  rebuild it because I feel like when we're born, that
• 36:08
  inner world is intact. But I had to really strip
• 36:12
  it all down jay to the bear bones, the bolts,
• 36:17
  and just start inwardly from the bottom and just build.
• 36:25
  And it's been a wild ride. It's been a wild
• 36:29
  ride of what that means and what that looks like.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: When it comes to your friendship with Tupac, which you
• 36:35
  speak about so beautifully in the book, and it's so
• 36:38
  wonderful because we get an insight into him in a
• 36:41
  way that you don't as just a fan of the music,
• 36:45
  right so as someone who grew up listening to him myself.
• 36:49
  It's like you get a certain perception of someone who's
• 36:52
  intelligent but then also has this gangster lifestyle persona, et cetera.
• 36:58
  But then again, when you get context and you get
• 37:01
  to know about someone through someone who actually knows them.
• 37:05
  And what I really appreciated, which I found fascinating, was
• 37:08
  just how you had the wisdom at that time to
• 37:12
  know that someone would be a special friend without being
• 37:18
  romantic with them. Yeah, for us about it, because I
• 37:22
  feel like a lot of people struggle. He was obviously
• 37:26
  into you and when you first met, et cetera, the
• 37:28
  way you describe it, but it's like and there's even
• 37:31
  one point where you dare him to Yeah, and I
• 37:35
  want you to tell that. But but what I find
• 37:37
  fascinating and what I want to help people with here
• 37:39
  is like, how were you able to create and build
• 37:42
  a relationship with someone knowing initially that it was based
• 37:46
  on some attraction, right, but actually you knew there was
• 37:49
  so much more to it. How were you able to
• 37:52
  allow that to unfold? Because I think so many of
• 37:54
  us get so scared if we're not into someone, we go, Okay,
• 37:57
  I'm just going to push them away, or that person
• 37:59
  eventually tries to make a move anyway. But here it
• 38:02
  was like this beautiful respect. This you both created that.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we both did. We both had the intelligence. You know,
• 38:09
  we were both really young. So I think I think
• 38:14
  the Great Supreme for this too, that there was no
• 38:19
  physical chemistry between us. I mean literally, it was like,
• 38:24
  and I try to explain this to people, it was
• 38:28
  the same for Pac. It was just like when I
• 38:30
  dared him to kiss me, he was I mean it
• 38:35
  was like ill for us both right, and was like,
• 38:41
  how can that be? How can you feel so connected
• 38:44
  to someone of the opposite sex. There was just this
• 38:48
  beautiful understanding, you know when you can just sit with
• 38:51
  somebody in a room and you don't have to say
• 38:53
  a word and there's just this level of comfort. We
• 38:57
  just knew each other.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: The moment Pac saw me and our eyes and I
• 39:02
  saw his peanut head across the room at Baltimore School
• 39:06
  for the Arts, it was like I knew him already.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: We just got each other. I just understood him in
• 39:13
  that understanding, and he understood me. So we could pull
• 39:16
  each other's coattails, but we could also join each other.
• 39:19
  When I talk about that joining, when you can sit
• 39:22
  with somebody and really feel like they see you, they
• 39:26
  understand you, they care about you, and they're gonna be
• 39:30
  there by you no matter what. That was Tupac. He
• 39:35
  was gonna ride with me no matter what. He was
• 39:38
  so authentic and it's rare that that level of authenticity,
• 39:43
  and he was so he had wore his heart on
• 39:46
  the sleeve, and there was just this amount of loyalty
• 39:48
  between us, and I think also the fact that we
• 39:52
  both struggled with mothers who were addicts and we tried
• 39:58
  to compensate for what on another of not having that peace,
• 40:05
  and we didn't boohoo about it. We understood how to
• 40:09
  fill in the voids without getting all hallmarky about it,
• 40:19
  you know what I mean, And so that it was
• 40:21
  so we just kind of knew how to flow with
• 40:24
  each other in a way that was very comfortable. It's
• 40:28
  always hard to kind of explain because it was like
• 40:30
  it's almost like he was really a Kindred's That's the
• 40:35
  only way I could really explain it. And I feel
• 40:37
  so lucky and so blessed that I got to know
• 40:42
  a being like himself in that way because he was
• 40:45
  such a dynamic person. But you can feel it because
• 40:51
  his music is still lasting for generations now, you know.
• 40:55
  So he was just a treasure.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: Teach us what's the difference between sexual chemistry and energetic
• 41:03
  connection or authentic connection, because I think we often think
• 41:08
  that to get close to someone, you need that. And
• 41:12
  here it's not just about the fact that there wasn't
• 41:14
  attraction or there's more to it in that. I feel
• 41:18
  like there's a subtle difference in how you were able
• 41:21
  to accept that there is an authentic connection. But it
• 41:25
  doesn't have to include it does physical chemistry in order
• 41:29
  to have a deep energetic connection, if that makes sense,
• 41:32
  as I actually.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Think in my experience, some of the deepest connections that
• 41:38
  I've had with men have not included sex whatsoever, right,
• 41:45
  And I think that sex sometimes can cloud things. A
• 41:54
  lot of things come in that a lot of people
• 41:57
  don't understand, so you know, whether it's like certain levels
• 42:01
  of emotional trauma, all these kinds of things. Energetically, the
• 42:07
  heart to heart spirit space has a level of purity
• 42:10
  to it where even if things get difficult, like when
• 42:14
  things would get challenging with POC and I, we could
• 42:17
  get to it fast and there's just a level of
• 42:21
  purity and it's not attached to I want to make
• 42:27
  things right with you so I can sleep with you,
• 42:31
  you know what I mean. It's not that agenda. The
• 42:33
  agendas are pure. They're more pure, and it has more space.
• 42:38
  It's like I love you, but you got to live
• 42:40
  your life. I can be truthful, I can be honest.
• 42:46
  I think that with us, I could be more of
• 42:50
  myself because one thing I knew about Pac, I never
• 42:56
  had to worry about, you know, when we have big
• 42:59
  blow ups, which we did all the time, he's coming back.
• 43:03
  I never worried about that. I never worried, Oh my god, No,
• 43:09
  he ain't listen wether it's a year, whatether it's a year,
• 43:13
  a week, three days. I had to love all that
• 43:16
  Pac was. He loved all that I was, the good
• 43:19
  and the bad, and he was gonna be right there
• 43:23
  with that and vice versa. That was one of the
• 43:25
  most beautiful aspects of our relationship. We didn't have to
• 43:29
  fake it, we didn't have to like pretend to be
• 43:31
  other things, and we could be honest. He could pull
• 43:34
  my coattails, I could pull his coattails. I could give
• 43:36
  him all the praise and love on him all I
• 43:38
  wanted to and not have to worry about, Oh, now
• 43:42
  we're gonna have to have sex, you know, like none
• 43:44
  of that, because that wasn't happening. We just didn't have
• 43:49
  We just didn't have it. Yeah, I think if Pac
• 43:52
  had survived Vegas, he and Will would have ended up
• 43:58
  being really good friends. You know, they would have had
• 44:02
  a lot to offer one another. And funny enough, Will
• 44:07
  was the only person when I started dating him. Pac
• 44:11
  never said anything. If I dated anybody else, pack had
• 44:15
  had something to say. He didn't think anybody was good enough,
• 44:18
  which I understand, right, But when I started dating Will,
• 44:22
  he didn't say anything which meant to me in his
• 44:25
  own way he approved, right, right. He didn't say anything
• 44:31
  which was like okay, a not a word which made
• 44:36
  me believe he approved.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I think it's it's so beautiful to reflect
• 44:41
  on that friendship because I think it's so hope giving
• 44:43
  to so many people who you know, sometimes lose out
• 44:47
  on those kind of relationships because we don't see where
• 44:50
  else it can go. Oh, it could so much value.
• 44:53
  There's so much value to that. And there's the you know,
• 44:57
  the part of the book where you talk about how
• 44:59
  you never go to be there when Vegas happened, like
• 45:03
  you weren't there. You hadn't talked for a year, I
• 45:06
  think at the time.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Big, Yeah, we had a big blow up.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: What would you have said to him, or what would
• 45:11
  you say to him or what did you want him
• 45:13
  to know or what were you so sure that he
• 45:15
  already knew? And you're thinking to yourself, I just wanted
• 45:18
  to remind him of this what would that be?
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't have to remind him of anything. He knew it,
• 45:24
  pac knew. I adored him. I have no doubt in
• 45:28
  my mind that he left this world knowing that a
• 45:34
  great feeling. Yeah, that's never been the issue for me.
• 45:38
  We did that dance a lot. Sometimes have blow ups,
• 45:41
  and we're both very stubborn, and I'll let people read
• 45:45
  the book to that blow up and what led to that.
• 45:49
  But I think sometimes what sometimes still hurts is that
• 45:56
  me feeling like maybe I couldn't do enough once he left,
• 46:04
  Like I'm thinking to myself, oh my god, what would
• 46:06
  pack have done? Like if it had been me in
• 46:08
  a car in Vegas and got you know, he would
• 46:12
  have read taboc So that ego sometimes comes into play,
• 46:17
  like just feeling so helpless that he was taken in
• 46:25
  that way and there was nothing I could do. To
• 46:29
  this day that gnaws at me.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: You know, for what it's worth, I really believe that
• 46:36
  the way you write, and by the way everyone who's
• 46:38
  listening and watching, there is so much more to unpack
• 46:41
  in the book, which I highly recommend you read as
• 46:44
  you're going through it, and you'll come to this part.
• 46:46
  But I really believe that the way you honor and
• 46:49
  appreciate and respect your dear friend in the book is
• 46:52
  really beautiful and special and it's like it's hard to
• 46:55
  describe as well, but it's a really wonderful lens into
• 47:00
  a human so, you know, larger than life in so
• 47:04
  many ways.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: And I wanted to also kind of there's been so
• 47:07
  many misconceptions about our relationship because people are like, you know,
• 47:11
  have a difficult time understanding that he and I could
• 47:14
  actually be friends. But just wanted to give people such
• 47:18
  just an insight on, you know, the beauty of our
• 47:22
  friendship that I just cherish to this day so very much,
• 47:27
  you know. And I wanted to give people a different
• 47:29
  outlook just of who he was. And I'll say who
• 47:35
  he is because he still exists, you know, but so
• 47:38
  I really wanted that to come across.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, well, we got to understand him, I think
• 47:43
  through you through the perspective of not a rapper, not
• 47:48
  an icon, not a but a human and a friend
• 47:51
  and like what he was like as a friend, And
• 47:53
  I think that that's a very intimate way to know
• 47:56
  about someone. So I love that I wanted to talk
• 48:00
  to you about you. You mentioned there you were like
• 48:02
  Will was the only person that Puck didn't too, Puk
• 48:05
  didn't have an issue, And I love that, and you
• 48:08
  know how much I mean, you know, I've always been
• 48:10
  open about it, and we've talked about it, and I
• 48:12
  met Will through you, and it's like I I've always
• 48:17
  said that when I met you and the whole family,
• 48:22
  and when I met him, you were everything and more.
• 48:25
  All of you are everything and more. And what I
• 48:28
  mean by that is everything i'd wanted you to be,
• 48:31
  plus so much more right, And he's that too in
• 48:35
  so many ways. And I think that it's really interesting
• 48:40
  because when you're talking about in the book of like,
• 48:42
  I love the conversation you referred to and you're like
• 48:44
  your mom's like, you know, get him off the phone.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: That's one of our moments, Yes, exactly.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: But what I love about it the most is that
• 48:53
  it is true that from the outside, as you set
• 48:56
  it up, it looks like a fairy tale, and it
• 48:58
  felt like that. And what I find really fascinating about this,
• 49:02
  again and again and again, pretty much with everyone is
• 49:05
  that there is no fairy tale love anywhere on the planet.
• 49:11
  And you know, in our own little way, I always
• 49:14
  talk about this with me and Radi too. It's like
• 49:16
  we'll do an interview together where Radi will tell me
• 49:19
  all the challenges she has with me, and she'll be
• 49:21
  crying and upset, and then everyone in the comments will
• 49:23
  still be like, you guys are so cute, Like no, no, no,
• 49:27
  we're not trying to say we're cute. Like this is
• 49:29
  like real issue, like real stuff that you know, we've
• 49:32
  talked about it. Obviously, you spend a ton of time
• 49:34
  in me and Rady, and so I think for me,
• 49:36
  what's really interesting is that, yes, from the outside, when
• 49:38
  you see two incredible actors, performers, artists, talent get together,
• 49:43
  you're like, wow, powerhouse couple. Everyone projects their expectations. You
• 49:49
  have beautiful, adorable kids, you know, like Jaden's acting and
• 49:52
  he's like the cutest thing in the world, and Willow too,
• 49:55
  And it's like it's so interesting because we also we
• 49:59
  like to build up our dreams in people, and we
• 50:03
  like to project our dreams onto people because I think
• 50:07
  as viewers it makes us believe that it's possible and
• 50:11
  we live through people and we aspire for it, not
• 50:14
  that we aspire for the success and the fame, but
• 50:16
  that we aspire for the like, well, if they can
• 50:18
  get it right, then I can get it right. And
• 50:20
  it's not it's an innocent.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Absolute belief that we all have.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: It's not a we all have that inside of us,
• 50:26
  so we have we all have this. I know that
• 50:28
  I had that, like you know, I was. I was
• 50:30
  searched it the other day and it's a term, it's
• 50:32
  Disney princess syndrome. And I was like, I've had Disney
• 50:35
  princess syndrome like myself, like a ton of times, and
• 50:40
  it's so fascinating to be for anyone who doesn't get
• 50:42
  the reference. The point is that every Disney princess is
• 50:45
  always looking for her prince. Oh yeah, And I would
• 50:47
  say regardless of gender, that's true. Like I feel that
• 50:50
  way where I've been looking for my princess or my
• 50:54
  win or my award or whatever it may be. And
• 50:59
  I wanted to walk us through, like what were the
• 51:02
  stages and how would you define the stages as you
• 51:04
  do in this book, your stages of your relationship with Will,
• 51:07
  because I feel that that's the part that people get
• 51:12
  blurry because they're looking at it through their lens. But
• 51:15
  you both have been so clear about stages of your
• 51:18
  relationship internally, which I actually think is the hardest part.
• 51:22
  And so how would you define the stages of your
• 51:24
  partnership with Will that help people understand the conversations that
• 51:29
  you're having behind the scenes, from like being madly in
• 51:32
  love to you.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah, the stages of getting to the most authentic
• 51:39
  and it's difficult, So I just want to honor that
• 51:43
  for a second. Like it's almost like talking about relationships
• 51:50
  and the romanticism around the idea of relating is sometimes
• 51:59
  as detriment until I was talking about politics and God,
• 52:03
  because it's such a staple in how people look at
• 52:09
  marriage and relating culturally, right, and all of the romanticism
• 52:15
  around it, and Will and I have been what I
• 52:21
  would consider kind of the relationship goals, this romanticized version.
• 52:29
  I had to in my own relationship with Will dissolve
• 52:37
  my romanticism around what I thought marriage would be should be,
• 52:44
  And honestly, we really never had what I would consider
• 52:48
  the ideal honeymoon stage, you know, even though you do
• 52:52
  have the honeymoon stage, but our relationship started with some challenges,
• 52:58
  you know, because he was divorcing, and then our life
• 53:03
  just took off like a rocket ship. We just took
• 53:08
  on this huge life in our early twenties, and where
• 53:14
  his focus was really about, Hey, I want to be
• 53:17
  the biggest movie star in the world. And I knew
• 53:20
  that going into our relationship, and I knew there would
• 53:25
  be sacrifices with that. And then along the way, and
• 53:29
  I talk about this in the book, just having those
• 53:31
  different perspectives and really trying to figure out how to
• 53:35
  reconcile those different perspectives and also deal with a lot
• 53:39
  of challenges. So I think one of the things that
• 53:42
  I address in the book in regards to, you know,
• 53:45
  people thinking that we've had an open marriage and we
• 53:49
  haven't had an open marriage. I talk about starting off
• 53:56
  pretty much early on in our marriage of having the
• 54:03
  need for transparency. And that is a big difference between hey,
• 54:09
  you can do whatever you want, you know, versus like, hey, here,
• 54:14
  we are very young people in this place called Hollywood
• 54:20
  that has a lot of temptation. Let's have a partnership
• 54:23
  around this. Let's be very realistic of what this life is.
• 54:28
  If we're talking about we're going to be together forever
• 54:30
  and ever and ever. That means there's gonna be some
• 54:35
  temptations that come up. Let's be in partnership, and let's
• 54:38
  talk about that. I didn't go into my marriage like
• 54:43
  I am going to be My husband is never ever,
• 54:47
  ever going to look at anybody else like I just
• 54:52
  I am just a realist in a lot of ways.
• 54:57
  I know what it's been like for me right when
• 55:01
  I first came to Hollywood and I could go into
• 55:04
  the clubs and have anybody just the level of just
• 55:10
  like that, just like it's just like you just intoxicate.
• 55:16
  It's so intoxicating. That's one. Now, what I do believe
• 55:21
  that what people don't know that I talk about in
• 55:25
  the book a lot is that there have been several
• 55:27
  breakups between Will and I. Will talks about it my
• 55:32
  fortieth birthday, which was a big breakup for us. We
• 55:35
  were actually looking towards separating and divorcing, and we separated.
• 55:42
  The world just didn't know. Then we had a reconciliation,
• 55:47
  and then twenty sixteen came and we had the ultimate
• 55:50
  break but the world didn't know. And I think that
• 55:55
  that's where some of the misconception about having an open
• 55:59
  marriage came into play because we were living lives as
• 56:03
  single people and the world didn't know. Over the span
• 56:07
  of twelve years of just trying to figure out this
• 56:11
  thing called love and marriage between Will and I, it's
• 56:14
  been a trip. And I think that even with that
• 56:18
  entanglement piece, which I talk about extensively in the book,
• 56:23
  how I played a part in the misconception of that
• 56:26
  narrative of allowing myself to be portrayed as an adulteress,
• 56:32
  allowing myself to be portrayed as someone that had betrayed Will,
• 56:37
  and that wasn't the case. We broke up in twenty sixteen.
• 56:41
  He went on to live a life as a single man.
• 56:43
  I went on to live a life as a single woman.
• 56:46
  And then when we had the talk at the Red Table,
• 56:49
  I was going to go to the Red Table by
• 56:51
  myself to talk about the entanglement, but Will decided he
• 56:57
  wanted to come with me, and we were going to
• 57:01
  then tell the world, Hey, we haven't been together, and
• 57:04
  this happened during that time. Well, when we got to
• 57:07
  the table, Will wasn't ready. He wasn't ready, He wasn't
• 57:13
  ready for the world to know that I had to
• 57:16
  respect that well. I didn't have to, but I wanted to.
• 57:19
  But I was ready. I was ready to let go
• 57:24
  of the persona I had created around myself that had
• 57:28
  put me in a golden cage. I wanted to let
• 57:33
  that go, and so I had to stay on my journey.
• 57:35
  I had to stay on my path while also respecting
• 57:40
  that will wasn't ready. So I said, you know what,
• 57:44
  this is my mess anyway, I'm going to take this
• 57:48
  heat because guess what the heat is coming either way,
• 57:52
  whether when we decided to get divorced, when we decided
• 57:55
  to separate, whatever, whatever. This is my practice. Run strip
• 58:00
  it down, let it go, Jada, and then let's see
• 58:05
  what's left. I didn't have to put that particular show out,
• 58:09
  but I had already gotten myself so ready for that
• 58:14
  journey for myself and to me, that was moving closer
• 58:19
  to my freedom than holding back and creating a narrative
• 58:26
  that I felt like was just going to entrap me
• 58:28
  more and as difficult as it's been, because the irony is,
• 58:32
  I spent so much of our relationship having this open
• 58:37
  communication between the between he and I, creating this beautiful
• 58:41
  friendship of authenticity and honesty, and so to be labeled
• 58:51
  as someone who had cheated on him was devastating, but
• 58:55
  it also put me in a position where I had
• 59:02
  to learn how to let go of what anybody thought
• 59:07
  about me and really be ten toes down on understanding
• 59:11
  who I am and being able to walk in that
• 59:17
  no matter what anybody thought about me. But I needed
• 59:20
  that journey for myself. You know. It's kind of like
• 59:25
  that is the walk when they talk about walking on
• 59:27
  hot coals. It's like creating that level of when we
• 59:31
  talk about that inner world work and creating that like
• 59:36
  strong foundation within yourself of knowing exactly who you are
• 59:40
  no matter what other people think about you. I mean,
• 59:44
  I've gotten that to a certain degree. And so that
• 59:47
  was a very challenging moment, and I talk about it
• 59:52
  in the book because I feel like so many people
• 59:57
  are challenged in that way of like how can I
• 1:00:01
  just walk in this world and be okay with myself
• 1:00:05
  no matter what? When I talk about the journey, you know,
• 1:00:09
  really extensively in the book. But there have been so
• 1:00:14
  many misconceptions about my relationship with Will. But I think
• 1:00:19
  that everybody suffers misconceptions. Once again, whether you're head of
• 1:00:25
  that pta and your husband's that doctor, and you're the lawyer.
• 1:00:31
  You know what I mean. You're you're like the crum
• 1:00:33
  Delo creme of your friend group or you know, of
• 1:00:36
  your community, and so everybody's expecting you to have a
• 1:00:40
  certain kind of marriage. And marriage is a journey, you know,
• 1:00:46
  And it's a journey towards learning how to love yourself
• 1:00:51
  and learning how to love your partner. And there's not
• 1:00:56
  one way to do it. And everybody, I think we
• 1:01:00
  do that journey a real disservice of trying to make
• 1:01:04
  it this cookie cut thing, like no, no, no, you
• 1:01:07
  can only do it this way. And it's like each
• 1:01:11
  and every person in their relationship they have to look
• 1:01:15
  at what their relationship is calling for in regards to
• 1:01:20
  what is needed to get your marriage, to the love,
• 1:01:28
  to the strength, to the understanding, to the friendship and
• 1:01:34
  to that unconditional place. And the unfortunate part is that
• 1:01:37
  we think once we get married, like somebody is ready made.
• 1:01:40
  They know how to love you, even though they don't
• 1:01:42
  know how to love themselves. They don't know they don't
• 1:01:45
  know how to love themselves. But you better know how
• 1:01:48
  to love me.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: I want to highlight because I think it's often it
• 1:01:54
  can be missed at least is you know, when you
• 1:01:56
  had that conversation on Red Table Talk, it would have
• 1:01:59
  been so easy to not have that conversation publicly because
• 1:02:04
  people would have their rumors, it would blow over, and
• 1:02:07
  then it would be over. And I'm only raising this
• 1:02:11
  because I know how much for you it was part
• 1:02:14
  of the work you are doing. And that's why I'm
• 1:02:17
  raising this because I think what's really interesting is that
• 1:02:20
  when someone's trying to do deep in a healing work,
• 1:02:25
  actually more often than not, their external way will not
• 1:02:29
  make sense because it literally looks like you're setting yourself
• 1:02:34
  up to fail. Because when you're really trying to dismantle
• 1:02:40
  the ego, or you're really trying to deconstruct the false
• 1:02:46
  identities that we all build up me included all of us. Like,
• 1:02:49
  when that is there and it's being deconstructed, someone would
• 1:02:52
  look at you be like, why would you do that?
• 1:02:55
  Why do I need to know? And really I just
• 1:02:58
  want to highlight and I want you to share about
• 1:03:00
  that the intention was healing. The intention wasn't to save
• 1:03:05
  face or the intention and I know this because we
• 1:03:06
  were talking about it. The intention wasn't It.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: Wasn't to save face, and it surely wasn't. And I
• 1:03:12
  need people to know I didn't ask Bill to come
• 1:03:15
  to the table. That was not my idea. Will wanted
• 1:03:20
  to come to the table because he didn't want me
• 1:03:21
  to be there by myself. He had all the best
• 1:03:24
  intentions and got there and was I think his trauma
• 1:03:30
  response kicked in, like I'm not ready. So many people
• 1:03:33
  were like, don't do this, and I'm like, nah, I'm
• 1:03:37
  doing it for myself, for myself because I want to live,
• 1:03:41
  because I'm ready. I don't want this whole thing anymore,
• 1:03:52
  this whole Jada Will. I'm done with that. It was
• 1:03:57
  part of the work that I was ready for and
• 1:04:00
  it was what I needed. And everybody's in different places
• 1:04:04
  in their journey. Also. That's also a dynamic I had
• 1:04:08
  to look at within myself in regards to So it's
• 1:04:11
  two things. There's this healthy Jada is like, tear it down.
• 1:04:14
  I want to. I don't want that persona anymore. Terror
• 1:04:17
  I ain't go down. And there's this other part of
• 1:04:18
  me that was like, oh my god, I need to pretend.
• 1:04:21
  You know, he's not ready. You know he's not ready.
• 1:04:24
  My you know, codependency kicks in and I go. This
• 1:04:26
  is what I do. I'm the martyr. I can do
• 1:04:30
  the martyr thing. So once again, it's both things. It's
• 1:04:34
  healing like I'm ready, like I'm ready for I'm ready
• 1:04:39
  for the tear down, and then this martyr that's like
• 1:04:44
  and I want to make sure Will, as long as
• 1:04:46
  you're okay, I'm okay. That's part of my relationship with
• 1:04:50
  my mother's addiction that I brought into my relationship with Will.
• 1:04:56
  That created a certain dynamic within my self in my
• 1:05:01
  relationship with him that I also needed to get my
• 1:05:05
  eyes on that I didn't see that that needed to
• 1:05:09
  be healed as well. Without that table, without that moment,
• 1:05:17
  I would have never recognized that. As painful as it
• 1:05:20
  was for people to watch existential disappointment in a collective,
• 1:05:27
  I'm so sorry. I wish it could have happened another way.
• 1:05:30
  I'm sorry that it had to be so messy in
• 1:05:33
  front of everybody. I'm sorry, but I needed that what
• 1:05:41
  I got to clear up, what I got to clean up,
• 1:05:43
  what I got to see, and to be able to
• 1:05:46
  sit here with you today and embrace it all and
• 1:05:50
  have so much acceptance for myself for all of the
• 1:05:53
  choices I've made and people ask me, if you had
• 1:05:57
  to do it over again, would you do it any different?
• 1:06:00
  I don't think so.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: Honestly, knowing and talking to you, I found it to
• 1:06:05
  be so courageous and so full of strength because it
• 1:06:11
  was putting yourself on the spot like in no other way.
• 1:06:16
  And I can't even begin to understand how uncomfortable it is.
• 1:06:22
  I only can from the conversations we had.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: Well, you were right there with me day.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: At the level of discomfort. Yeah, you were willing to
• 1:06:30
  put yourself in in order to let go of an identity,
• 1:06:35
  in order to let go of a perception. Like I'm
• 1:06:38
  saying it in these words because I just want everyone
• 1:06:40
  who's listening watching just to think about it for a second. Like,
• 1:06:43
  imagine you had to go in front of everyone you knew,
• 1:06:48
  your family, your friends, your school, whoever it is that
• 1:06:52
  you're around, your people at work, and you had to
• 1:06:55
  share a secret that wasn't a secret between you and
• 1:06:59
  the person you're with, but was a secret to them.
• 1:07:03
  To just think about that whatever that secret is, right,
• 1:07:06
  Everyone has secrets, everyone has something you know, and to
• 1:07:09
  do that requires just so much courage and strength, And
• 1:07:14
  it also shows the I think you were just apologizing
• 1:07:17
  that it was so messy. I also think that it
• 1:07:20
  is uncomfortable, like growth is uncomfortable, and like letting go
• 1:07:24
  of shedding identities is uncomfortable. And I'm not comparing my
• 1:07:28
  experience to you as at all because it's not the
• 1:07:29
  same in any way. But I'm trying to explain how
• 1:07:32
  like a tiny PDA like my kind of like version
• 1:07:35
  of it is still as big. I remember the day
• 1:07:38
  I told my friends and my family and my teachers
• 1:07:41
  that I no longer thought I could be a monk.
• 1:07:43
  And it sounds so small like now that but at
• 1:07:46
  the time as someone who would like I was dedicating
• 1:07:50
  my life. You've met my teachers, you know I'm dedicating
• 1:07:52
  my life. I'm like doing this big thing. And then
• 1:07:55
  all of a sudden, I come to the conclusion that
• 1:07:58
  this thought in my head of I'm not good enough,
• 1:07:59
  I'm not a monk, I'm not meant to be like,
• 1:08:01
  this isn't my path, whatever it may be. I think
• 1:08:05
  I should get married, you know all the stuff, and
• 1:08:08
  you're so you feel so much shame around the fact
• 1:08:11
  that you're not good enough and what are people going
• 1:08:15
  to say? And even for me, that was just my
• 1:08:17
  temple community and my friends and my family, and even then,
• 1:08:21
  it was like as if someone was ripping my ego
• 1:08:25
  out of my chest, because that's what it feels like.
• 1:08:28
  It feels like an extraction of you know, not that
• 1:08:31
  I'm ego less now, but that that was such a
• 1:08:33
  big way of crushing that part of my ego. And
• 1:08:37
  so I just want people to think about it through
• 1:08:40
  that perspective. And I'm saying it because I think that
• 1:08:43
  we all go through periods in our life where people
• 1:08:45
  misunderstand us. We all go through periods in our life
• 1:08:47
  where the people we thought loved us and adored us
• 1:08:50
  will now be let down. We all go through experiences
• 1:08:53
  in our life where we have to let go of
• 1:08:56
  someone that we thought we were or what people thought
• 1:08:58
  we were, and those are going to be the hardest,
• 1:09:01
  most painful times. And actually, if we can learn to
• 1:09:04
  be graceful instead of when our friends are getting divorced
• 1:09:07
  and we're like, did you hear so we had that
• 1:09:09
  a couple of people in my community back at home
• 1:09:12
  just got divorced. The whole community is talking about it,
• 1:09:16
  and I'm just like, guys, like, we have no idea
• 1:09:19
  what was going on for the last ten twenty years,
• 1:09:22
  Let's give them grace because you never know when that
• 1:09:25
  could be you. You have no idea when it could
• 1:09:27
  be you. You know, we're so it's so easy to
• 1:09:30
  judge and throw stones at anyone and everyone, like you know,
• 1:09:34
  And I just really feel that if we have the
• 1:09:37
  ability to be graceful and compassionate when other people are
• 1:09:42
  doing that, we'll actually do it with ourselves. And because
• 1:09:46
  we're hard on ourselves, we're hard on others. We're hard
• 1:09:49
  on others, we're hard on ourselves, and I just for me,
• 1:09:54
  I just want to see more people be graceful for
• 1:09:56
  themselves and for others because there's so much human experience
• 1:10:01
  wrapped up in it.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's my hope too, you know that people
• 1:10:04
  can have more grace for themselves. But I tell you,
• 1:10:08
  I think one of the saving factors was that, you know,
• 1:10:14
  there were no secrets between Will and I. Yeah, And
• 1:10:19
  there were no secrets between my kids and I.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: So the fact that my family was absolutely aware of
• 1:10:28
  the entire journey, it was a saving grace for me.
• 1:10:33
  Whatever the world wants to think is whatever, you know.
• 1:10:36
  Will knows he was not betrayed, and my kids know
• 1:10:39
  that I did not betray their father, and that to
• 1:10:42
  me all that matters. But it was quite a exercise
• 1:10:49
  of having to walk in the world like that, you know,
• 1:10:52
  having people think that that's what happened. Just having that
• 1:10:57
  exercise in that way has been that's such a healing
• 1:11:00
  factor for me of just the level of self love,
• 1:11:04
  the level of self worth that I have because of
• 1:11:12
  what that experience has offered me. And I'm not saying
• 1:11:16
  that anybody else should do it on that level, you know,
• 1:11:19
  But what I am saying is that there are ego
• 1:11:23
  deaths that have to occur in order to get to
• 1:11:27
  a more authentic place of self worth and self love.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: And I want to talk about the little gurus, as
• 1:11:36
  you call them in the book. We start with Trey,
• 1:11:38
  who you know, this book is dedicated to your daughter
• 1:11:42
  and the daughters of the people that read it, and
• 1:11:44
  to your sons, yea, and to the sons of the
• 1:11:46
  people that read it. And I wonder, what is it
• 1:11:50
  that you think you've learned from Trey, that you've been
• 1:11:54
  taught by Jaden and that you've been taught by Willow
• 1:11:57
  in your journey with them mold because you have such
• 1:11:59
  a whatever I've seen you with them. You have such
• 1:12:02
  a deep, beautiful, rich relationship video kids. We were talking
• 1:12:05
  about that earlier. Yeah, I'd love to know what is
• 1:12:08
  it that each of them have taught you.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: Trey, he has such an enormous heart. And I think
• 1:12:14
  what I love about Trey is his ability to meet people,
• 1:12:22
  join people where they are, his ability to join me.
• 1:12:26
  He has a way of seeing the best in people,
• 1:12:31
  no matter what, the best in circumstances, no matter what,
• 1:12:35
  and even in his most challenging times challenging relationships, having
• 1:12:42
  the willingness to see the person's spirit versus personality. And
• 1:12:49
  he's always reminded me of that. You know, mom, you
• 1:12:53
  know that person? You know what I mean? And I'm like,
• 1:12:56
  you know what trade you?
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: He and I have kind of been walking parallel. We'll
• 1:13:01
  look over at each other and go, I see you,
• 1:13:03
  and he goes, I see you. You know you know
• 1:13:06
  what I mean. So you know, we're the two in
• 1:13:09
  the family that's really been on a intense walk spiritually.
• 1:13:16
  And he has so much perseverance in regards to understanding God,
• 1:13:23
  finding his way understanding life. I don't know if you know,
• 1:13:27
  he's just such a He's such a light you know,
• 1:13:31
  so iron sharpens iron. He'll walk in the kitchen and go, mom,
• 1:13:36
  look at me, what do you think I'm feeling today?
• 1:13:39
  You know what I mean. Or he'll look at me
• 1:13:41
  and go, wow, you know you're you're like bright, what's
• 1:13:46
  going on with you? Like he can just see me
• 1:13:49
  and he can see people, you know, and I'd be like, wow,
• 1:13:51
  how did you see that? This is happening? This is
• 1:13:53
  that he's like really you know, and he's he's just
• 1:13:56
  he's just such a light. He's just such a joy.
• 1:13:59
  And so he just is always reminding me to look
• 1:14:03
  for the best in people. And I just adore him
• 1:14:08
  and is why he's a bonus, you know. And then Willow,
• 1:14:15
  Oh she's such a fireball. I mean she she is
• 1:14:19
  like the mirror of the fire of my soul when
• 1:14:24
  I tell you, she is the mirror of that, Like
• 1:14:27
  I get to see myself in her in so many ways.
• 1:14:34
  What I love most about Willow is that she is
• 1:14:38
  to the point, you know what I mean. She is
• 1:14:41
  like she doesn't have a whole lot of play play.
• 1:14:45
  She's just like no, no, she just hits it on
• 1:14:49
  the mark. Where sometimes I can be very flowery, you know,
• 1:14:53
  very gentle, and I also love how she loves me.
• 1:14:58
  She teaches me a lot about it love. She teaches
• 1:15:01
  me a lot about When I talked about being able
• 1:15:04
  to join like, she teaches me a lot about how
• 1:15:09
  to join her and how to join others in ways
• 1:15:13
  that I'm not used to. I know how to join
• 1:15:17
  others in ways that I'm used to, but me having
• 1:15:20
  to learn how to join her in a certain manner.
• 1:15:22
  I've had to come out of my comfort zones and
• 1:15:25
  really be like, oh, man, I'm very deficient here, and
• 1:15:30
  her patience with me with that deficiency, She's so patient
• 1:15:33
  with me. She's like, it's okay, Mom. You know sometimes
• 1:15:36
  that I don't need you to talk to me. Mom,
• 1:15:37
  just hold me. I'm like, oh, that's all you want
• 1:15:39
  me to do? You just want me, That's all. I'm
• 1:15:42
  not used to that. You know, I don't come from
• 1:15:45
  a family where affection. You know that we don't. We
• 1:15:49
  don't hug each other and hold each other. That's not
• 1:15:51
  what we did. But willowy Ma, I don't need your advice.
• 1:15:56
  I just want to sit here, hold me while I cry.
• 1:15:59
  And then I have to learn how to I've had
• 1:16:01
  to learn. She's taught me how to hold tears and
• 1:16:03
  really be able to join with those tears and not
• 1:16:06
  rebel and you know, like have them repel because then
• 1:16:09
  they bring up my tears. And so she's learned. She's
• 1:16:11
  taught me how to love my tears too, you know,
• 1:16:14
  those places within myself that I haven't always been willing
• 1:16:18
  to go, you know. And now I cry all the time,
• 1:16:21
  you know, And I call it the thawing because for
• 1:16:24
  so long I wasn't allowed. I didn't allow myself to cry,
• 1:16:29
  you know. So she's taught me that. And then there's Jaden.
• 1:16:36
  Oh man, Jaden, he's just walking joy. I mean, he
• 1:16:41
  comes in the room, it's just like Jaden, you know,
• 1:16:45
  he's just walking joy. But he was like that when
• 1:16:47
  I carried him. I was the happiest I had ever
• 1:16:50
  been in my life when I was pregnant with Jaden.
• 1:16:52
  And I think that I had a lot to do
• 1:16:54
  with the energy that he carries. He has the capacity
• 1:16:59
  to love everything, and that is difficulty, challenging people, challenging situations.
• 1:17:10
  He has the capacity to love it all and find
• 1:17:14
  the beauty in it. And I'm talking about sincerely, and
• 1:17:20
  it is like that's a God given gift. That's not
• 1:17:23
  you can't teach that. And so he just I was
• 1:17:26
  sitting up, you know, I was just talking to him
• 1:17:28
  the other day and I was just like, oh, I
• 1:17:30
  was reading this book Emotionally Immature Parents, and I was like, Jane,
• 1:17:35
  you got to read this book. Your mother has been
• 1:17:38
  an emotionally impstruy parents. I said, you got to read
• 1:17:42
  this book. And he said, you know what, ma, He said,
• 1:17:50
  things from Afar can look a certain way, but when
• 1:17:52
  you put a microscope up on something and you look
• 1:17:56
  at it close up, he was like, it is such
• 1:17:59
  a weird shape, weird beautiful shapes of things, but you
• 1:18:05
  get to see the intricacies of it and it's so
• 1:18:09
  much more. And that's what you are to me. You're
• 1:18:11
  like this beautiful, intricate organism that I love so much.
• 1:18:17
  Don't ever apologize to me again, you know what I mean.
• 1:18:24
  And that's just how his mind works, you know. And
• 1:18:28
  he comes over and he hugs me and he kisses
• 1:18:31
  me on my forehead, you know what I'm saying. And
• 1:18:33
  he's like, you gave birth to me that, don't ever
• 1:18:37
  apologize to me, you know. And he's like, and I'm
• 1:18:39
  not reading our book. I'm gonna get you the book anyway.
• 1:18:44
  You know, I'm always apologizing to my kids about all
• 1:18:46
  kinds of things. I think it's so important for parents
• 1:18:49
  to apologize, say sorry. You know, I've gotten in the
• 1:18:54
  habit every little like if I misunderstand something, or if
• 1:18:57
  there's like this like little glip, you know, but I
• 1:19:01
  didn't quite get that, then I'm so sorry. I apologize.
• 1:19:06
  I'm going to do better next time with that, and
• 1:19:08
  thank you for your patience. I think it's important, you know.
• 1:19:12
  I wish my father had apologized to me more. My
• 1:19:16
  mom apologizes too. I actually learned that from her. She's
• 1:19:19
  apologized a lot, and I actually said the same thing
• 1:19:23
  to her now that I'm thinking about stop apologizing to.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: But isn't that that those are the best relationships where
• 1:19:31
  someone does something yeah, and the other person is like,
• 1:19:34
  it's fine, yeah, And that's what kind of It's that
• 1:19:38
  relationship where internally you're happy you heard it, but you
• 1:19:43
  know you didn't need to, but the person still felt
• 1:19:46
  the need to say it, and it creates so much clarity.
• 1:19:49
  And you know, when I told Willow you were coming
• 1:19:53
  on today, she sent a little note oh, because I
• 1:20:00
  was talking to her about it. And I was talking
• 1:20:02
  to her about the book, and so she said this
• 1:20:05
  little note that I want to read to you.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: If that's okay, Oh my god, let me keep my napkin.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: So she said, this is from Willow and Willow. If
• 1:20:12
  I don't read it as you would in your amazing voice,
• 1:20:15
  then please forgive me. I'm also apologizing to you in advance. Mum.
• 1:20:19
  I am incomprehensibly proud of you and all of the
• 1:20:23
  inner excavation you have done during the writing of your book.
• 1:20:28
  There were many times during the process where you would
• 1:20:31
  read me sections and deep emotions would come up for us.
• 1:20:35
  Both learning from you through learning about you is one
• 1:20:40
  of the biggest joys of my life. You never cease
• 1:20:43
  to inspire me with how wide you've opened your heart,
• 1:20:47
  not only to the immense joys of life, but also
• 1:20:50
  to the deep uncertainties and shadows with equal gratitude and grace.
• 1:20:57
  You have shown me true tenderness and true strength come
• 1:21:01
  from the same place within, and that is something that
• 1:21:04
  I aspire to show others. Thank you for loving me.
• 1:21:09
  I'm so grateful for you.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: And the Guru. That's the little Guru right there there.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: It is she loves you. So much, and they will
• 1:21:19
  obviously love you so much. But when I read that,
• 1:21:23
  and when I was reflecting on it, it was just and
• 1:21:26
  as me and rather you always talk about this because
• 1:21:28
  we've watched you in Willow so many times together and
• 1:21:32
  it has been so inspiring to us to see that
• 1:21:36
  connection you both have and the openness you have with
• 1:21:39
  your kids and how well they understand you. And you know,
• 1:21:43
  as you were just saying, you always apologizing, but that's
• 1:21:45
  what they're seeing. Yeah, they see that because you're so
• 1:21:51
  willing to share with them.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I don't keep secrets from my kids.
• 1:21:56
  I've let them see my deepest flaws, and I think
• 1:21:59
  that it's important. I mean, and not in the way
• 1:22:02
  that we have to be careful with that too, but
• 1:22:05
  I mean just as far as like it's okay to
• 1:22:07
  be human, not being afraid to show my humanness, because
• 1:22:11
  that's the one thing with my mother that I have
• 1:22:13
  so much gratitude for that I could see her as
• 1:22:16
  a human being and my relationship with you know, my
• 1:22:20
  mother being an addict, and me being able to relate
• 1:22:24
  to her as not just my mother, but as a woman,
• 1:22:30
  you know, as a person. And I think that was
• 1:22:34
  one aspect that I felt like I really needed to
• 1:22:37
  bring into my relationship with my kids for them to
• 1:22:40
  see me as a person. We're in this together.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: It comes across. When I've witnessed it. It's the most
• 1:22:48
  beautiful thing. I could only ever dreamed that when Rather
• 1:22:52
  and I are able to do that, that you know
• 1:22:55
  that we you will how were you have it? It's
• 1:22:58
  really special makable to watch in practice. And I mean that,
• 1:23:03
  you know, the message says it all.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: But.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: Jedda, I wanted you know I throughout this book and
• 1:23:10
  even in this interview today. I think I was going
• 1:23:13
  to save this to say it later, but I'm going
• 1:23:14
  to say now. I've been sharing spirituality with people in
• 1:23:20
  different ways since I was eighteen years old, and I
• 1:23:26
  was so young and immature then in my spirituality, and
• 1:23:31
  I still am today and that will always continue. And
• 1:23:34
  I've just been fortunate to sit at the feet of
• 1:23:38
  incredible teachers and mentors, and so any realization I've had
• 1:23:42
  earlier than I should have had, it is because of
• 1:23:45
  sitting with elders, and you know, sitting with the teachers
• 1:23:48
  I've introduced you to. And I've rarely met someone who's
• 1:23:51
  as eager for healing as you. I don't think I've
• 1:23:55
  met a family that's more. We're healing as the top priority, right.
• 1:24:02
  And it's such an interesting thing to perceive in someone
• 1:24:07
  because you can tell by someone's language and when their
• 1:24:11
  eyes light up and their body language changes as to
• 1:24:15
  what they are motivated by. And ever since I met you,
• 1:24:19
  from the first day we met backstage green room for
• 1:24:23
  Red Table Taught Series two launch day event, I was
• 1:24:27
  getting to host and interview you, Danny and Willow, and
• 1:24:32
  I remember you'd ask me like, what did you learn
• 1:24:35
  as a monk? And I'd said to you, I was
• 1:24:39
  giving to you the what I did learn as practices,
• 1:24:42
  but I wasn't getting to the root of it. So
• 1:24:45
  I was explaining the practices like gratitude and meditation and
• 1:24:49
  mindfulness and service, and you were kind of just like, oh,
• 1:24:56
  that's cool, like you know it was. And then I'd
• 1:24:59
  said to you because I felt a inner voice say
• 1:25:03
  that I should, and it was truly guided from within,
• 1:25:06
  and I said to you, I learned how to love God,
• 1:25:09
  And that was potentially the first time I'd even said
• 1:25:13
  that in that way to someone. And you, just like
• 1:25:19
  your whole body language and your eyes and everything just changed,
• 1:25:22
  and everyone else was late. So we were just talking
• 1:25:25
  and you were like, I want to learn how to
• 1:25:27
  love God too. And you'd obviously already been on that
• 1:25:29
  journey for decades, like you know, and you talk about
• 1:25:32
  in the book where you started with the Ethical Society, right,
• 1:25:35
  you know, that had been a journey that had been
• 1:25:36
  a part of your journey forever. But it was so
• 1:25:38
  interesting to me to meet someone and an entire family
• 1:25:43
  who is more focused on healing and growth and and
• 1:25:46
  God in their own way, in your in your own language,
• 1:25:49
  and your own in your own ways, than than anything else.
• 1:25:51
  I've never we've never had a conversation that steers too
• 1:25:55
  far away from that, from any of those things, which
• 1:25:58
  which says so and we fun and we have a
• 1:26:00
  good time and everything, but that And the reason I
• 1:26:03
  raised that is because I also saw that when you
• 1:26:06
  were talking about Oscar's night in the book you referred
• 1:26:09
  to as the holy slap and the holy joke, And
• 1:26:12
  you've always looked at everything through the lens of how
• 1:26:18
  is this bringing me closer to the divine? I remember
• 1:26:21
  one conversation we had about the feminine divine, and I'll
• 1:26:27
  never forget it because we at this point we'd been
• 1:26:31
  doing we'd been talking twice a week for like a
• 1:26:34
  year and a half or something, and we were talking
• 1:26:39
  about a specific aspect of the divine feminine, which is
• 1:26:44
  often left out or forgotten or hidden. I had never
• 1:26:48
  seen anyone respond in a way so sincerely and genuinely
• 1:26:55
  to a vision of God as you did, and you said,
• 1:27:02
  with tears in your eyes, You're like, I've been looking
• 1:27:04
  for this God for twenty five years. And I remember
• 1:27:08
  just going like I could just see the genuineness and
• 1:27:12
  the sincerity in your eyes, and I was just like, wow,
• 1:27:16
  like I hope I can love like that one day,
• 1:27:18
  Like that's actually what I felt like, as it was
• 1:27:20
  so inspiring. And I know that I've got closer to
• 1:27:27
  Divinity through our work, and that's because of your seeking.
• 1:27:32
  And you've pulled me closer to the divine through your seeking,
• 1:27:35
  which you've given me the greatest gift, like for years
• 1:27:38
  and years and years ever since i've known you, and
• 1:27:41
  it's your ability to look for that. And so I
• 1:27:46
  wanted to talk to you about you know, I think
• 1:27:48
  when when it all went down on Oscar's Night and
• 1:27:52
  you talk about this in the book and so I
• 1:27:53
  want to leave everyone to read about it in full.
• 1:27:56
  But the but the perception was that you were so
• 1:28:00
  offended that you'd kind of urge this action, which is
• 1:28:07
  bizarre in and of itself for so many reasons that
• 1:28:09
  you lay out in the book. But I want to
• 1:28:11
  hear from you, like, what were you actually hurt by
• 1:28:14
  about the condition that you were going through? And in
• 1:28:20
  that gap between what we saw and what we didn't
• 1:28:24
  get to see, which everyone had their own theory on
• 1:28:27
  what was actually your thought space, where were you?
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Let me start with that was a really layered moment.
• 1:28:36
  Let me start with also that there was so much
• 1:28:43
  that people didn't know in regards to what was happening
• 1:28:48
  with Will and I at that time. And I will
• 1:28:50
  leave for people to get the book because there's so
• 1:28:54
  much history, and you break it down, break it down,
• 1:29:00
  I did not exactly. It's so much history that I
• 1:29:03
  think would give people a lot more context to understand
• 1:29:07
  that moment. Let me also say that I know there
• 1:29:10
  was a difficult moment to watch because of history that
• 1:29:14
  Chris and I had in regards to the twenty sixteen
• 1:29:20
  Oscar so White and I let people read to get
• 1:29:24
  up to speed on that. But when I first saw
• 1:29:27
  Chris's name come on stage, come up as one of
• 1:29:29
  the presenters, I said, oh boy. I looked to Will
• 1:29:32
  and I was like, he's not gonna be able to
• 1:29:33
  help himself. This is going to be something. I was like,
• 1:29:36
  I knew, I already knew, and I was like, okay,
• 1:29:40
  so Will have been going back and forth backstage all night.
• 1:29:45
  So when Chris said what he said, I looked to
• 1:29:51
  Will as if to say, see, I knew it, right,
• 1:29:57
  And then I was like, oh boy, that's not cool
• 1:30:01
  to like talk about a medical condition that people there's
• 1:30:07
  nothing you can like, it's not something that can be cured, right,
• 1:30:11
  And that how many stories I had heard of people,
• 1:30:15
  you know, young people committing suicide and the shame and
• 1:30:18
  just how many people suffer and you don't even know.
• 1:30:21
  Like once I had the condition and I saw how
• 1:30:24
  many people around me had, I was like, all these
• 1:30:27
  years I didn't know, and people express the shame, the
• 1:30:29
  level of shame they had around it. I'm gonna be
• 1:30:33
  okay as far as my condition. And as you can see,
• 1:30:37
  my hair is growing back. That's what it does. It'll grow,
• 1:30:39
  it'll fall out, it'll grow back again. Pieces of my
• 1:30:43
  eyebrows will fall out, grow back. You know, I'm having
• 1:30:46
  a good moment right now. My alopecia is not as
• 1:30:51
  extreme as most people who are dealing with that condition,
• 1:30:57
  and I just felt like, that's not okay. So I
• 1:31:00
  wasn't I wasn't upset about me, And I don't remember
• 1:31:04
  actually rolling my eyes. I think what people saw was
• 1:31:07
  me looking at will going I told you, I knew
• 1:31:09
  he was going to do that, and oh boy, here
• 1:31:12
  we go again. Yeah that was kind of yeah, you know,
• 1:31:15
  oh here we go. But I wasn't upset about me.
• 1:31:19
  It really wasn't. It wasn't about me. It was just
• 1:31:22
  all the stories I had heard and that I continue
• 1:31:24
  to hear about people who have suffered from this condition.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: And obviously you didn't want what happened to happen. Like
• 1:31:32
  I think that was just clarifying. I know that I'm
• 1:31:34
  just clarifying it.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: Of course, it wasn't like I looked at Willson, you know.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, And that's the kind you know, those
• 1:31:40
  are the kind of moments of context. Yeah, I lost.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: Sometimes Listen, there was an aspect of that that I
• 1:31:45
  was as shocked as anyone, because Will and I hadn't
• 1:31:49
  been referring to each other as husband and wife since
• 1:31:52
  twenty sixteen. I was like, wife of me, that's right, Yeah,
• 1:31:58
  I'm okay, that's right, I'm your wife. And that kicked in.
• 1:32:02
  I'm like, yep, here we are in that moment that
• 1:32:07
  that did happen. I was like, we came together, We're
• 1:32:10
  leaving together. You know that part of me that put
• 1:32:14
  everything else aside and was like, this is going to
• 1:32:18
  be something I need to make sure Will's okay, We're
• 1:32:21
  going to get through this. I had no idea that
• 1:32:24
  that was none whatsoever, and I came as family. I
• 1:32:28
  actually didn't go to the Oscars as Will's wife, and
• 1:32:32
  I know for people that's weird, But what was going
• 1:32:34
  on behind the scenes, Will and I had been said
• 1:32:36
  like we weren't living as husband and wife since twenty sixteen.
• 1:32:41
  I was happy he asked me to go. I was
• 1:32:44
  happy you wanted to share that moment with me still,
• 1:32:47
  and I was going to be by his side. And
• 1:32:50
  I think also people weren't really aware of the journey
• 1:32:58
  that had taken place after a MAN'SIPI. As far as
• 1:33:01
  Will's concern, it was a really difficult movie and afterwards
• 1:33:06
  he decided to get into therapeutic settings, and he asked
• 1:33:09
  me to join him because a lot of stuff was
• 1:33:12
  coming up, a lot of stuff from his past, childhood stuff.
• 1:33:16
  I think people didn't understand that there was a history
• 1:33:19
  there between he and Chris as well. So there was
• 1:33:21
  a lot of context that people just didn't have, you know,
• 1:33:24
  And I'm going to tell you something else. I understand
• 1:33:27
  why people thought it was me. I understand why people
• 1:33:30
  blame me. I don't think it's right, but I understand,
• 1:33:33
  you know, considering the narratives that were out there that
• 1:33:36
  I was part of. I have to take responsibility for that.
• 1:33:40
  And I talk about that in the book, you know,
• 1:33:42
  me being the adulterous wife that had you know, pushed
• 1:33:46
  Will to his limit. I get it. So I couldn't
• 1:33:48
  even take any of it personally. And I had to
• 1:33:51
  put myself in the shoes of the audience and go,
• 1:33:54
  if I was looking at this, what would I say?
• 1:33:58
  I probably would have said the same thing. And then
• 1:34:00
  that made me really look at like, oh, man, Like,
• 1:34:03
  culturally we're always blaming women, Like I had to really
• 1:34:06
  go deep into that, why do we do that? You
• 1:34:10
  know that men of power that have so much of
• 1:34:15
  their ownness in their life, but when something bad happens,
• 1:34:21
  it's a woman's fault, you know what I mean. It's
• 1:34:23
  so interesting, you know, and I had I really started
• 1:34:25
  to examine that, but more so just looking at that
• 1:34:28
  narrative and taking responsibility.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 3: And at the same time there was love and compassion
• 1:34:33
  for Chris. There was that.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, I talk about that in the book.
• 1:34:40
  I've worked with Chris. I know Chris am I always
• 1:34:44
  a fan of Chris's stage work, No, but Chris as
• 1:34:47
  a person, he's a sweet guy. There was a moment
• 1:34:52
  when Chris came down to the end of the stage
• 1:34:58
  and you have to understand, I'm in deep confusion. I
• 1:35:02
  don't know what's going on because of me understanding the
• 1:35:06
  context of Will and I behind the scenes, what just
• 1:35:10
  happened on the stage. I'm worried about Will. I've never
• 1:35:16
  seen that from him. I don't know what's going on.
• 1:35:22
  But Chris comes to the end of the stage and
• 1:35:26
  he looks at me deeply sincerely, and he says, Jada,
• 1:35:32
  I meant no harm, and it was so sincere in
• 1:35:35
  his eyes. I'm like, that's the Chris I know, that's
• 1:35:39
  the Chris I've experienced. That's the Chris that a lot
• 1:35:42
  of people don't get to see because people just see
• 1:35:44
  Chris on stage doing what Chris does. But I'm glad
• 1:35:47
  I had that moment because with everything else that transpired afterwards,
• 1:35:53
  you know, his Netflix, certain comments and all of that,
• 1:35:57
  I could hold on to that sincere moment. So when
• 1:36:00
  we talk about looking past personality and when somebody has
• 1:36:04
  had that opportunity to show you their heart, to show
• 1:36:06
  you their spirit, that's the truth, not all the other
• 1:36:12
  stuff that hurt, misunderstanding, confusion might bring up. So where
• 1:36:20
  my feelings hurt when I heard what was happening as
• 1:36:24
  far as the Netflix, of course my feelings were hurt,
• 1:36:28
  but I didn't take it personally because I remember I
• 1:36:31
  can see his eyes right now as I'm talking to you,
• 1:36:35
  and that's the truth of Chris's spirit, Jada, I meant
• 1:36:41
  no harm. I talk about it in the book. It's like,
• 1:36:46
  you gotta have grace when we're hurt. I'm not saying
• 1:36:50
  that I agree with how it was handled. I don't
• 1:36:55
  agree with it, but I understand. And so my hope
• 1:37:03
  is that there will be there's such a beautiful opportunity
• 1:37:07
  for healing, and my hope is that that will occur
• 1:37:11
  as time. Everything needs time. You have two beautiful men
• 1:37:18
  who have hurts and who have hurt one another, but
• 1:37:25
  they're both beautiful men. And as I said before, my
• 1:37:31
  hope is that these two very capable, beautiful men at
• 1:37:37
  some time figure out how to resolve this whole thing
• 1:37:45
  of the present and of the past, you know, because
• 1:37:48
  life is about healing. Man, It's like life's too short.
• 1:37:52
  And you know, sometimes conflicts can really amplify love, They
• 1:37:57
  really can. I know it has for me. And that's
• 1:38:00
  why I called that chapter the Holy Slap, the Holy Joke,
• 1:38:04
  the Holy Slap, and the Holy Lessons because through all
• 1:38:09
  of this conflict that I've been in the midst, of
• 1:38:11
  all this misunderstanding that I've been in the midst of,
• 1:38:15
  it's helped amplify love within my heart. It's made my
• 1:38:18
  heart more elastic hate, and I really have been able
• 1:38:24
  to understand how hate has a ceiling. You know, hate aggression,
• 1:38:31
  you know, it has a ceiling, whereas love is oh wow,
• 1:38:37
  but it takes so much courage, and it's so easy
• 1:38:42
  to go into aggression. It's so easy to go into
• 1:38:46
  you know, hateful feelings. It's easy and I can't blame
• 1:38:52
  anybody for doing it, and I have no judgment because
• 1:38:55
  guess what been there done that?
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: You know, Jode, when you started today, you said that
• 1:39:02
  you know this is your journey from being unlovable to
• 1:39:06
  trying to find love again. And it's really it's really
• 1:39:10
  the true story of all of our lives of just
• 1:39:12
  we're all on that journey of being unlovable, thinking that
• 1:39:17
  if someone loves us will be fine, then thinking that
• 1:39:21
  if we get or achieve this will be fine, then
• 1:39:24
  thinking if I love this person perfectly, then I'll be fine.
• 1:39:28
  And it's that we keep filling in that the sentence
• 1:39:32
  between unlovable with too lovable, with so many versions. And
• 1:39:35
  I think what this book, this memoir does so beautifully, honestly,
• 1:39:42
  is you show us every version that you tried to
• 1:39:44
  fit in.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: That gap, right, every version.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 3: Every version that you to fit in that gap. You're
• 1:39:52
  just showing us the reality of what that comes with,
• 1:39:54
  like the pain that comes with trying to fit everything
• 1:39:57
  into that gap. And I I appreciate you for doing
• 1:40:01
  that because it's it's hard to not turn every story
• 1:40:05
  into a fairy tale ending. Yeah, perfect ending. And there
• 1:40:09
  isn't that here? And I think that that's what truly
• 1:40:13
  makes it relatable. It's what truly makes it applicable wherever
• 1:40:16
  we are on our journeys, on that spectrum, in anyone else's.
• 1:40:20
  And it's why I said that I really hope that
• 1:40:23
  anyone who's on that journey themselves will pick this book
• 1:40:27
  up and be able to notice which gap they're trying
• 1:40:31
  to fill it with, yeah, and come back in if
• 1:40:34
  that sounds if that feels right.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: That's really right. It's like because you're right, it's like
• 1:40:41
  all these it's like, Okay, that didn't work, let me
• 1:40:42
  go over here, let me try this, and then it
• 1:40:45
  just nope. You got to you got to heal you,
• 1:40:52
  and you got to really get with a power higher
• 1:40:55
  than yourself. And I want to thank you for really
• 1:40:59
  being so so helpful in so many ways, Jay, in
• 1:41:03
  regards to you talk about, I mean, we've been on
• 1:41:06
  such a beautiful journey together in that way of just
• 1:41:12
  learning and deepening our relationship with God individually together. I
• 1:41:21
  so appreciate you for that. I mean, you have been
• 1:41:24
  so instrumental in that way.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 3: I genuinely can't tact any credit like I'm not even
• 1:41:29
  I'm not even can And that's not even me. That's
• 1:41:32
  not me being unblo modest, It's it's me just saying
• 1:41:35
  that in the same way as you feel people came
• 1:41:38
  into your life to you know, accelerate that journey and
• 1:41:42
  reconnect you like you did the same for me and Rodi,
• 1:41:44
  like in a in a physical way. You all of
• 1:41:46
  you have given us so much family. We've celebrated so
• 1:41:49
  many Thanksgiving. Yeah, we've had you over for sunga every
• 1:41:53
  you know, for days and days and weeks and months
• 1:41:55
  and years. And you know, you've given us so much.
• 1:41:58
  And I don't I think that's what I think this
• 1:42:03
  book does. I think that's what we'll do for our friendships,
• 1:42:05
  is that I got the opportunity to build a friendship
• 1:42:08
  with you that was based on nothing else but healing,
• 1:42:13
  growth and the divine, and that kind of relationship just
• 1:42:19
  has a different energy. Yeah, it's really special when there's
• 1:42:23
  nothing else, there's nothing else that would have made our
• 1:42:26
  paths cross. We don't work together, we don't have we
• 1:42:30
  don't do business together, we don't have the same friends
• 1:42:33
  like you know.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: But but but this right.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 3: I'm so grateful to watch someone do the hardest work,
• 1:42:43
  and I'm going, yeah, I need to do it too,
• 1:42:47
  And I admire it because I see it from that
• 1:42:49
  perspective with you, and I always have that you're not
• 1:42:53
  trying to take the easy way out. You're not You're
• 1:42:56
  not just looking to fix it with a band aid.
• 1:42:58
  You're not just hoping it will go away. You're like, no,
• 1:43:02
  I'm gonna sit there with it. That is just I
• 1:43:06
  just that is such an uncomfortable place naturally for ninety
• 1:43:10
  nine percent of people. Yeah, I'm in all of you
• 1:43:13
  because of it, and I always will be. And I'm
• 1:43:16
  just I'm I'm so happy that you decided to put
• 1:43:19
  it into writing, because this isn't about clarifying. It isn't
• 1:43:26
  about people getting a sense of what really happened. That's
• 1:43:29
  not what it's about. It's about how can we sit
• 1:43:32
  through that discomfort that we're going through in our life
• 1:43:34
  and choose healing and growth even when it's the hardest
• 1:43:38
  thing and the farthest thing away from us.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: Listen, if things get cleared up from reading this book, great,
• 1:43:44
  but that's not the purpose because I actually don't think
• 1:43:47
  you can. You can't, Yeah, you can't. It'll just be
• 1:43:50
  more stirring up whatever other things right, And it's really
• 1:43:55
  which is why it's even more important to really be
• 1:43:58
  able to have a strong sense of self right, and
• 1:44:01
  not to be looking for external things to be to
• 1:44:08
  substitute what you have to have inside in order to
• 1:44:14
  know your place in this world. This place is crazy.
• 1:44:20
  And to try to make the material space, the material
• 1:44:24
  world align in a way for your comfort. It can't
• 1:44:28
  start there. It has to start within yourself, that how
• 1:44:32
  you see and what you attract you is in alignment
• 1:44:38
  with what is happening here, right, But looking for the
• 1:44:41
  world to buoy you up or accept you in a
• 1:44:44
  certain manner.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 3: Nah.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: Like I said before, this can just give some little
• 1:44:49
  bread crumbs to help people get to a sense of
• 1:44:52
  self worth that gives them that comfort no matter what
• 1:44:55
  is happening. You know, if you've brought freaking chocolate chip
• 1:45:01
  cookies with peanuts in them to the school fair, even
• 1:45:07
  though kids might have allergies in the school them wrote
• 1:45:10
  you a letter and said don't bring products with peanuts.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 3: And yeah, right, you made them with love.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: And now the mom group is on your neck. You
• 1:45:23
  can be okay. You can be okay with your victories,
• 1:45:27
  and you can be okay with the inevitable challenges that
• 1:45:33
  life is going to deliver. It's okay either way. You're okay,
• 1:45:42
  You're worthy, you're lovable, peanuts and all.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: So, Jada, one of the things that you mentioned was
• 1:45:49
  that you went to the oscars as family, but not
• 1:45:54
  as a wife. Yeah, and I wanted to ask you,
• 1:45:58
  how do you define this state of your relationship now and.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: What is it like, you know right now? Of course,
• 1:46:07
  we've had it's been an intense two years and we've
• 1:46:11
  really been doing some deep healing together. And that's why
• 1:46:16
  I was saying before, the idea of how just really
• 1:46:21
  disruptive situations can amplify love in a certain manner because
• 1:46:28
  it kind of forces you to have to dive a
• 1:46:32
  little deeper. That's what we've been doing. We've just been
• 1:46:34
  growing together and see what happens, then see what grows
• 1:46:40
  from there.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: But like I said in the book, it's like we
• 1:46:45
  have this beautiful friendship and we really look at our
• 1:46:51
  marriage as being the cornerstone of family. We're both kind
• 1:46:58
  of coming up with different definitions of what marriage means
• 1:47:03
  for us. We're still figuring all of that out. Yeah,
• 1:47:07
  But the beautiful part is that there's been some really
• 1:47:12
  deep heeling going on. Yeah, I mean you know that.
• 1:47:17
  I mean, at the end of the day, that's what
• 1:47:19
  it's about. Marriage is so much about growth, like really
• 1:47:24
  learning how to grow emotionally, like emotional maturity, spiritual maturity,
• 1:47:31
  and there's this spiritual bond there. I mean, we've tried
• 1:47:36
  our best to get away from each other. I mean,
• 1:47:39
  I mean our best, and we just don't want to.
• 1:47:45
  So we are defining it the way that works for us,
• 1:47:53
  and I think getting comfortable with not being concerned about
• 1:47:59
  what anybody else thinks about it. We have this life
• 1:48:03
  partnership and every day we're trying to figure out what
• 1:48:08
  that means.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 3: You've both talked about how you feel like you're a
• 1:48:12
  mirror for each other. Yeah, And when I've spoken to
• 1:48:15
  Will as well, it's like he feels like you're the
• 1:48:17
  person who knows him to his care Absolutely, he knows
• 1:48:22
  you to your core, like you know everything. Yeah, that
• 1:48:26
  potentially there is to know about each other, and you're
• 1:48:29
  obviously still learning.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: What's really interesting about that is some people would say, well,
• 1:48:33
  why not just get divorced.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody's always like, why don't you just get divorced
• 1:48:38
  and it's like, hmm, that's like quitting. I don't think
• 1:48:43
  there's any person that could embrace the best and the
• 1:48:46
  worst of me and be able be willing to hold
• 1:48:51
  space in the way that will hold space for me
• 1:48:55
  and the way that I hold space for him. And
• 1:48:58
  I know that most people probably go into their relationship
• 1:49:03
  as like you were here to please me, and yeah,
• 1:49:08
  our relationship isn't quite that, you know. It's like it's
• 1:49:12
  more about there's no greater mirror I could have than
• 1:49:17
  will he doesn't. I can't get around myself just like
• 1:49:22
  he can't get around himself with me. And I think
• 1:49:26
  that that's just been what this has been all about,
• 1:49:30
  Like it's been a deep clearing, like really having to
• 1:49:35
  look at yourself in ways in that mirror that Sure,
• 1:49:40
  we talk about this all the time. Would it be
• 1:49:42
  easier to go and find somebody else and have a
• 1:49:45
  more pleasing, more comfortable relationship, maybe, But would that get
• 1:49:50
  me to the person that I really want to be?
• 1:49:53
  I don't think so. And I'm not saying that everybody's
• 1:49:57
  relationship is supposed to be that. I'm not here to
• 1:49:59
  say that. I'm just saying that that's what my relationship
• 1:50:02
  is that's something I desire to get.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 3: To a.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: Deeper part, a more spiritually sound, emotionally sound, and really
• 1:50:17
  understand love unconditionally. And the thing that I've learned about
• 1:50:24
  unconditional love, you can't really understand what unconditional love and
• 1:50:29
  ideal circumstances to really get to what it is to
• 1:50:36
  love yourself and someone else completely with all that's divine,
• 1:50:45
  all that's human, all that's perfect, and all that is
• 1:50:50
  deeply flawed, and have full acceptance for it. All I
• 1:50:55
  tell you this is you know, marriage is not the
• 1:51:00
  faint at heart. It's just not. And it is definitely
• 1:51:04
  I believe, I believe. You know, different people get married
• 1:51:09
  for different reasons, so I'm not trying to say why
• 1:51:11
  anybody else should be married. But for me, the holy
• 1:51:14
  path of getting to a divine aspect of myself in
• 1:51:20
  partnership with Will and it seems like Will wants the
• 1:51:23
  same for himself, and it's taken us, you know, I mean,
• 1:51:26
  we got together it what I was twenty three, okay,
• 1:51:31
  twenty three when I first decided to commit myself to
• 1:51:39
  Willard Carroll Smith, Lord Jesus, so young, so young. We
• 1:51:48
  were babies, babies trying to figure this out. And you
• 1:51:51
  know what's interesting about young relationships. You create these young
• 1:51:55
  patterns that get so like these really young immature path
• 1:52:00
  in yourself and how you relate to your partner, and
• 1:52:05
  then you create these dynamics between one another that it
• 1:52:09
  takes a while to like really be willing to look
• 1:52:14
  at that stuff and dissolve it and let it go
• 1:52:16
  and mature and grow. It takes some real like self inventory, patience, courage, right,
• 1:52:27
  because you're breaking down everything, all your romantic ideas, everything
• 1:52:34
  you thought you know, relationship or marriage, all your romantic
• 1:52:39
  fantasies you.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: Know, just.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: You know, blow up in flames. But it's really been freeing.
• 1:52:50
  It's really been freeing to see what's more true.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I know the truth, yet, feel
• 1:53:00
  like I'm seeing more of what's true, you know, as
• 1:53:03
  regards to what love and partnership is about. Because I
• 1:53:09
  was definitely one of those people that's like, you're here
• 1:53:12
  to make me happy, and when you don't do it,
• 1:53:15
  that's a problem.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 3: And that's a normal setup. That's how we believe relationships are.
• 1:53:19
  And you know, I've talked about it before and I
• 1:53:22
  put it forward in my book this idea that we
• 1:53:26
  think pleasure is the ultimate gift of a relationship, but
• 1:53:30
  really purification is. And that's a really tough idea for anyone,
• 1:53:36
  including me, Like I haven't perfected that idea for me
• 1:53:39
  to wrap my head around. And I can honestly say
• 1:53:42
  that I love Radi and you know you've seen us
• 1:53:46
  both together and everything. But the greatest gift Radi gives
• 1:53:49
  me is a mirror and a purification of Rady can
• 1:53:54
  call out my ego better than anyone or anything, and
• 1:53:57
  I know it's coming from a good place. Yeah, can
• 1:54:00
  show me my flaws in the nicest, most supportive way
• 1:54:04
  possible and can receive it back from me. And then
• 1:54:08
  I feel like, because of her, I'm trying to be better,
• 1:54:12
  getting better, not for.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: Her, for myself.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 3: It's almost like the person that you live with knows
• 1:54:19
  you so deeply, or the person that you've seen has
• 1:54:21
  seen you in all circumstances, in all situations, knows you
• 1:54:25
  the deepest. I would say, Radi knows whether I woke
• 1:54:27
  up and meditated in the morning. Yeah, Like RADI knows
• 1:54:30
  whether I got angry or frustrated at night after a
• 1:54:33
  phone call. Like Radi knows that, And if I use
• 1:54:36
  that to my advantage of am I becoming, am I growing.
• 1:54:40
  But it's such a hard concept for people to understand
• 1:54:43
  because it's so counterintuitive to the pleasure seeking mind that
• 1:54:48
  we've been conditioned to chase. And again, I'm not saying
• 1:54:52
  we shouldn't have a pleasure in relationship.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: That's not the.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 3: Point I'm making. I'm just saying that there's more to it,
• 1:54:57
  There's another level.
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: There's definitely more to it. And I think we've talked
• 1:55:00
  about this before, you and I. As far as people
• 1:55:03
  believing that romantic love is the highest form. Now, I
• 1:55:10
  believe that romantic love is an aspect right of a
• 1:55:18
  higher form, But I don't believe that romantic self romantic
• 1:55:22
  love itself is the highest form right. I believe within
• 1:55:26
  the highest form you can have romantic love, but that
• 1:55:29
  romantic love is not of the highest right. And that's
• 1:55:35
  all I've been examining and exploring with will and really
• 1:55:43
  trying to understand the power of unconditional love, friendship, Like,
• 1:55:49
  there's something about friendship, familial love that is beautiful. But
• 1:55:59
  when two people can have an agreement around divine love,
• 1:56:07
  like love of a source greater than yourself, that you
• 1:56:13
  want to be connected to, and then you decide that
• 1:56:17
  your relationship is going to be connected to that same source.
• 1:56:23
  Oh boy, now we're onto something. Now we're onto something.
• 1:56:29
  But to think that romantic love can hold all of
• 1:56:36
  the difficulties and challenges alone, and I think that's why
• 1:56:42
  so many of us get into these power struggles. And
• 1:56:45
  while there's so many divorces and while they're you know,
• 1:56:48
  just all of this strife and relationships, you brought up
• 1:56:51
  something that was really important. And it's the idea of
• 1:56:57
  Roddy when she can kind of pull your coattails with love.
• 1:57:02
  And I think that's it takes a lot of work
• 1:57:05
  to figure that out, like to not be offended when
• 1:57:09
  someone shows up imperfectly, and that those are those kind
• 1:57:14
  of pieces within relationship, Like we feel like people are
• 1:57:19
  supposed to come ready made. You walk down the aisland
• 1:57:22
  and it's like he knows how to love me, you know,
• 1:57:25
  I know how to love him, you know, And not
• 1:57:28
  making room for that space of growth that is inevitable.
• 1:57:34
  People are going to mess up, People are going to
• 1:57:36
  do stupid stuff, People are gonna say stupid stuff. Now
• 1:57:40
  when it comes to abuse and all of that, that's
• 1:57:42
  a different story, right, But people who are willing to
• 1:57:48
  learn how to love each other, because I really do
• 1:57:52
  think that's what committed relationships, about marriage or not. I'm
• 1:57:57
  committed to learning how to of myself, learning how to
• 1:58:01
  love you, right, and then learning how to cultivate this
• 1:58:06
  relationship that we have with that essence, with those components.
• 1:58:13
  Then that's a beautiful thing. That's what I believe the
• 1:58:20
  holy path of relating is all about. And not everybody
• 1:58:24
  wants that, you know, some people really just want the
• 1:58:28
  romantic version of it, and that's okay too, Absolutely, that's okay.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 3: Too, you know.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: But for me, definitely on that path of looking for
• 1:58:39
  something deeper within myself mostly.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 3: How did you let go of that desire for romantic
• 1:58:50
  love but then hold onto the friendship because I feel
• 1:58:53
  like that's a journey that is so hard, whether someone
• 1:58:57
  stays married or gets divorced or like like you both
• 1:59:00
  are you described yourself as best friends. How did you
• 1:59:03
  hold onto friendship being able to let go of the
• 1:59:07
  mirage that you had earlier, or even not even the
• 1:59:09
  mirage the reality of what you had earlier, as you
• 1:59:12
  talked about in the book, you know, the chemistry, the
• 1:59:14
  spark I think, ye, so many of us are trying
• 1:59:16
  to hold onto that, but you've let go of that.
• 1:59:19
  And then you're saying, but we've held on to the friendship,
• 1:59:21
  the mirror of the work, the growth. That sounds like
• 1:59:24
  the hard way through it.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's how people show up, and people don't
• 1:59:30
  always show up perfect clearly. But one thing about Will
• 1:59:36
  and I, we're just not willing to give up. Yeah,
• 1:59:40
  it's like I'm lucky that we just want to have
• 1:59:44
  each other in one another's life. Right, you have moments
• 1:59:49
  of disharmony, but if you know that you're not willing
• 1:59:55
  to not have that person in your life, you know
• 1:59:59
  you got to put four or the effort and you
• 2:00:01
  got to put forth the work to transform whatever's not working.
• 2:00:07
  So we always make the decision to take that one
• 2:00:12
  step closer to diving more deeply to learning how to love.
• 2:00:20
  And most of the time it has more to do
• 2:00:24
  with self inventory, having to go on the corner and
• 2:00:31
  look at oneself and then come back and go, I
• 2:00:35
  was tripping, whether it's I'm sorry or I had a misunderstanding.
• 2:00:41
  Can we look at this now together, because now I've
• 2:00:44
  looked at it in my corner alone and I've seen
• 2:00:48
  my part and I want to talk to you first
• 2:00:52
  about my part ABC and D right, and then inevitably
• 2:01:00
  usually your partner go, well, you know, I could have
• 2:01:04
  done such a such, And so when you have an
• 2:01:09
  agreement that's really unspoken of, like I want you in
• 2:01:13
  my life and I want to have good times with
• 2:01:16
  you and I love you, then that's the energy that
• 2:01:22
  nurtures and keeps one willing to just keep working at it.
• 2:01:31
  So there's that deep love. And the great thing is
• 2:01:34
  that Will's got a great sense of humor, you know
• 2:01:38
  what I mean. He's got a really good sense of humor.
• 2:01:41
  So he has a way of being able to help
• 2:01:44
  me get out of my funk. But I'm kind of
• 2:01:47
  like you talk about this a lot with Roddy, where
• 2:01:49
  I kind of have to take my time, Like I'm
• 2:01:50
  not always ready to talk right away. I need to
• 2:01:53
  like sit, I need to be with myself, I need
• 2:01:56
  to kind of like work through my thoughts and all
• 2:01:57
  of that. Where Will is always ready to talk. I
• 2:02:02
  like to go deep. He likes to get funny. The
• 2:02:04
  great thing about him he can go deep. And there
• 2:02:08
  are times that I really like to play and have fun.
• 2:02:11
  So we we're like these energetic fields. You know, I'm
• 2:02:15
  Earth and he sky. You know, we are your typical
• 2:02:20
  yin and yang.
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 3: You know that.
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: You know, there's this great chemistry there between us that
• 2:02:29
  just works. And but when it doesn't work, oh man,
• 2:02:34
  oh man, oh man, you know what I mean those moments,
• 2:02:40
  but it's just like, ah, but I think that's just
• 2:02:43
  inevitable in every relationship.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 3: You know, But it just doesn't look traditional. I think
• 2:02:47
  that's the point. That's that's the part where it's like,
• 2:02:50
  it just doesn't look traditional. It well, yes, there's the trust,
• 2:02:53
  there's commitments. Yeah, there's understanding, and at the same time,
• 2:02:58
  it doesn't look.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: It doesn't look to I don't know, I'm being honest
• 2:03:02
  with you. There are aspects of traditional relating that absolutely work.
• 2:03:10
  But I think in this day and age, I don't
• 2:03:13
  know too many marriages that are traditional. I really don't.
• 2:03:19
  Everybody is trying to figure it out, right, and I
• 2:03:25
  think everybody's so scared to talk about all of the
• 2:03:30
  different ways that they're trying to figure it out. I
• 2:03:33
  know so many people who are like married but not
• 2:03:37
  living together, married but have decided to have other partners.
• 2:03:42
  I know so many people and have for a long
• 2:03:45
  time that are trying marriage in so many different forms,
• 2:03:52
  And my whole thing is figure it out for you.
• 2:03:58
  Marriage is not aokie cut out like formula. Besides, I
• 2:04:05
  do think that there's some staples, you know, love, but
• 2:04:11
  he did it. Let me take that out for a second.
• 2:04:14
  There's some people who are married strictly for business purposes.
• 2:04:19
  I've seen that too. As long as there's agreement between
• 2:04:22
  two people and how they decide they want to be together,
• 2:04:25
  stay out of it. It has nothing to do. I
• 2:04:28
  tell people all the time, don't look at my marriage
• 2:04:31
  as being contagious. Whatever I'm doing doesn't mean you got
• 2:04:35
  to be doing that. You got to be doing the
• 2:04:38
  thing that works for you. And I feel like every
• 2:04:42
  partnership two people have the right to figure that out
• 2:04:46
  for them.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 3: And it's so different in norms, in different cultures and
• 2:04:49
  different backgrounds. I mean, like for me and Roddie, we
• 2:04:52
  spend a lot of time apart because she likes to
• 2:04:56
  be back with a family in London and I travel
• 2:04:58
  for work, and so we discovered and agreed very early
• 2:05:01
  on in our relationship that when I work, she would
• 2:05:05
  often visit her family back in London and she loves it,
• 2:05:08
  and she wants to be with her mom and dad
• 2:05:10
  and her niece and nephew and her sister and brother
• 2:05:12
  in law and everyone. And I love my purpose and
• 2:05:14
  I want to be traveling. I want to be working,
• 2:05:16
  I want to be moving. And I remember so many
• 2:05:18
  times in our relationship people be like, is everything okay? Yeah,
• 2:05:22
  And then we go back to London and people be like,
• 2:05:24
  why's your wife not with your People like why did
• 2:05:25
  Jay not with you? And everyone starts thinking that there
• 2:05:30
  may be something going on, and it's actually, well, no,
• 2:05:32
  this was our agreement. This is something we've sat and
• 2:05:35
  talked about and figured things out, and actually we love
• 2:05:38
  distance because we get excited to see each other again.
• 2:05:40
  It's refreshing. It works for us, and again it may
• 2:05:43
  not work for anyone else. Someone may say I need
• 2:05:45
  my partner by my set every day fair enough, and
• 2:05:48
  someone may say I want to travel more than you
• 2:05:50
  do or less. But we just found that having honest
• 2:05:54
  conversations between us and knowing why we were making certain
• 2:05:58
  decisions even though they were abnormal to our community, the
• 2:06:02
  community that we grew up in, where the way we
• 2:06:04
  live is very abnormal, even though it's just about time
• 2:06:08
  a paw. The point was we had an agreement that
• 2:06:11
  worked for us, and I think getting to know you both,
• 2:06:14
  I can honestly said that I feel like you guys
• 2:06:15
  are both always honest and communicative with each other on
• 2:06:19
  what your agreements are.
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that's what we.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 3: Have been discussing today as well. That you know, there's
• 2:06:25
  always been that that openness to do that.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, I talk about it a lot in
• 2:06:31
  the book.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I.
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: Think that a lot of people had a lot of
• 2:06:34
  misunderstanding as we talked about earlier. I believe in regards
• 2:06:38
  to open relationship and being able to be with whoever
• 2:06:41
  you want. Now, that's not what was happening. And I
• 2:06:45
  think a lot of times that people just didn't know
• 2:06:50
  that we had agreed to not be together. As we
• 2:06:54
  were trying to figure out are we going to be separated?
• 2:06:57
  Are we going to be divorced? Then we would reconcile,
• 2:07:00
  and then we would break up again, and it's all
• 2:07:01
  this back and forth between us that we didn't share
• 2:07:05
  with the world a lot, you know, And I think
• 2:07:08
  now people are just going to have to be okay
• 2:07:11
  with our marriage is not traditional in the sense of
• 2:07:19
  here we are married, but not you know what I mean.
• 2:07:25
  And you know, as I'm on my path and Will's
• 2:07:30
  figuring his thing out, we've decided to hold space for
• 2:07:34
  each other and as we're trying to figure out who
• 2:07:38
  we are. Will's lived a lot of his life for
• 2:07:41
  other people. I've definitely lived my life a lot for
• 2:07:45
  other people, and really having this time for me, I
• 2:07:49
  need this what I've been able to discover about myself
• 2:07:52
  in the last five years, six years, I think now
• 2:07:57
  I've needed this time to really concentrate on me and
• 2:08:03
  really developing like a relationship with myself. And I feel
• 2:08:09
  like the better relationship I have with myself, the better
• 2:08:12
  relationship I have with everyone else in my life, including Will,
• 2:08:16
  and so I talk about that a lot in the book.
• 2:08:18
  You know, just a lot of the misunderstandings that have occurred,
• 2:08:23
  rightfully so, because there's been a lot of mixed messaging,
• 2:08:26
  and then people are like, well, you know, you guys
• 2:08:28
  have been on the real card, you know, and all
• 2:08:29
  of that, We see you. We never knew there was
• 2:08:31
  a breakup you weren't supposed to that was between us,
• 2:08:36
  and at the end of the day, we're always family
• 2:08:41
  no matter what. So I think that the way we
• 2:08:44
  are deciding to be in a union, people are just
• 2:08:49
  gonna have to get with that. It's probably not gonna
• 2:08:53
  look like what someone else is doing, and that's just
• 2:08:58
  the truth of the matter, you know, and we'll good
• 2:09:01
  with that.
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 3: I can definitely say that whatever relationship anyone is in
• 2:09:05
  that we all get to a point in our relationships,
• 2:09:08
  romantic or otherwise where growing together becomes the greatest priority.
• 2:09:14
  It doesn't matter how.
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: We are, how we got there, or what's happening.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 3: I think that is the key I was saying to
• 2:09:22
  that when I was writing my book it Rules of Love,
• 2:09:24
  it was like the journey I went on through writing
• 2:09:28
  it got me to that point of recognizing that, yes,
• 2:09:30
  the goal of every relationship in my life is simply
• 2:09:34
  to teach me something I have been unwilling to learn.
• 2:09:39
  And the people that I'm closest.
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: To, come on, Jay, Yeah, the people that.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 3: I'm closest to are the only ones that can push
• 2:09:49
  me or pull me to seeing that whether it's your mom,
• 2:09:53
  whether it's your dad, or your sister, brother, partner, whatever
• 2:09:57
  it may be. And for me, I also discovered through
• 2:10:02
  the writing of the book that the greatest love story
• 2:10:05
  and I really really believe this. When I was writing it,
• 2:10:07
  I was like, the greatest love stories in the world
• 2:10:10
  are actually not romantic. The greatest love stories in the
• 2:10:13
  world are generally human sacrificing themselves in the service of others.
• 2:10:19
  Like you see people take on great sacrifice to help
• 2:10:22
  people that they may not even meet, or you see
• 2:10:24
  people like taking on a mission or a movement that
• 2:10:28
  h positively affects so many people that they were never
• 2:10:31
  even connected to, Like those are the greatest acts of love,
• 2:10:34
  or the act of love that a parent has for
• 2:10:36
  their child that they extend themselves in express and their unconditionality.
• 2:10:40
  You don't really see romantic love being unconditional generally. It's
• 2:10:44
  interesting that trying to practice and understand what unconditional love
• 2:10:48
  is and figuring it out, which we all are, including me,
• 2:10:50
  But that journey was really powerful for me to recognize
• 2:10:53
  that the more unwilling I become and the more I
• 2:10:57
  hide from the lessons that I meant to learn, the
• 2:11:02
  harder it gets, and the harder the lesson gets and
• 2:11:04
  the test gets and it just gets bigger and worse, it.
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: Gets bigger, and you know the truth of the matter is,
• 2:11:10
  it's like I'm always gonna be by will side. You know,
• 2:11:14
  when I think about, like if something ever happened to him,
• 2:11:18
  it's like, I'm gonna be right there if he needs me,
• 2:11:23
  I'm gonna be right there always. That's just an unbreakable fact.
• 2:11:28
  That's the bond we have. You know, We've tried to
• 2:11:32
  break it in every which way you can think of.
• 2:11:39
  We don't want to be in this lifetime without one another.
• 2:11:46
  It's just not gonna happen. So we're trying to figure
• 2:11:50
  out what that looks like for us. And there's something
• 2:11:55
  really powerful about that. I gotta be honest, as difficult
• 2:11:59
  as it's been, as there's been times that I've hated
• 2:12:02
  that fact having somebody that forces me to have to
• 2:12:10
  raise my consciousness, evolve my understanding of love, to deal
• 2:12:15
  with the fact of that bond. That's a God given
• 2:12:20
  gift because me and God got to get with that.
• 2:12:25
  God has to be my mentor on how to love
• 2:12:30
  Will and myself and care for the relationship that we
• 2:12:37
  have through the eyes of the Great Supreme, not the
• 2:12:41
  way Jada wants it. And so that has been a
• 2:12:45
  beautiful surrender that I've really had to surrender because I
• 2:12:50
  really feel like it's about the decree. God was like,
• 2:12:55
  oh no, in this lifetime, that's your person like it
• 2:12:59
  or not, I don't care. So it set me up
• 2:13:04
  to have to break certain ideas of my own personality
• 2:13:09
  and my own ego and really surrender to what the
• 2:13:14
  Great Supreme wants to teach me about love and about patience,
• 2:13:21
  and about care, kindness, consideration, forgiveness of myself, forgiveness of others.
• 2:13:27
  It's deep, and I'm so grateful. It's been a painful journey,
• 2:13:32
  no doubt, but the gifts that I get on the
• 2:13:36
  other side of that discomfort, and when I get on
• 2:13:40
  the other side of the discomfort, I go, I get it.
• 2:13:44
  I could not have gotten that gift or that understanding
• 2:13:51
  without that trial you gave me. I just asked God,
• 2:13:55
  these days, because You're make it a little easier, I
• 2:13:58
  think I'm getting the groove with it, just like, come on,
• 2:14:03
  you know. But I've also realized too that I'm getting
• 2:14:07
  to the point that when things tumultuous things come about,
• 2:14:14
  I smile and I go, Okay, you got a great
• 2:14:18
  one for me on the other side of this, bad boy,
• 2:14:21
  you know what I mean. You just start to realize
• 2:14:24
  it's never failed in that way. I remember asking Swammy.
• 2:14:29
  I said, do you think I should get divorced?
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 3: Wow, I didn't know you asked him?
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 1: Now, I sure did. I asked Swammy and he said,
• 2:14:38
  you know, Jada, people take their vows very lightly these days.
• 2:14:43
  And he said something to the fact that, you know,
• 2:14:50
  when we stay committed to the vowels that we make,
• 2:14:55
  we find what we need. And I was like, okay,
• 2:14:59
  and I just stayed on track. I was just like,
• 2:15:02
  all right, let me, let me just keep digging, let
• 2:15:05
  me keep going. And he you know, he's right for
• 2:15:10
  my journey.
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: I can't say for anybody else for my journey because
• 2:15:15
  he said, oh, this is what he said. He said,
• 2:15:18
  people end up as friends in the long run, and
• 2:15:22
  they're holding hands walking each other home. And that's how
• 2:15:26
  I feel. I feel like Will and I are walking
• 2:15:30
  each other home as life partners.
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 3: Well, Jada, I want to share one last thing with you,
• 2:15:35
  if I can so. Earlier I had a letter for
• 2:15:40
  you from Willow Okay, and I also have a letter
• 2:15:46
  from Will. I may need your help with you. May
• 2:15:50
  have to reenact some words because I feel like you'll
• 2:15:54
  be able to channel. Okay, Will better than me. I
• 2:15:56
  will not try and impersonate him because it won't go well.
• 2:16:00
  But this was for you, Jada. I think it was
• 2:16:01
  when Will found out that you're coming on the show.
• 2:16:03
  And all right, I was happy that he was able
• 2:16:05
  to send this to me and so I could share
• 2:16:07
  it with you, and I'll just read it and let's
• 2:16:09
  let's do it in his words. Okay, so you have
• 2:16:11
  to explain this one for us, I know, but I
• 2:16:12
  want the audience to know. So he said, congrats Dink.
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let me just tell you what is Yeah,
• 2:16:22
  let me let me tell you what Dink means. Oh,
• 2:16:24
  he's so crazy. So when we play golf, he's my
• 2:16:29
  favorite person to play golf with. So when we play golf,
• 2:16:33
  when I hit my driver, it goes Dink. And so
• 2:16:40
  that's why he calls me Dink.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 3: Who's better at golf.
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 1: He's definitely better. But I'm getting to a point where
• 2:16:47
  I can, you know, I can challenge him in a
• 2:16:49
  good way on a couple of holes, for sure.
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 3: All Right, Okay, congrats Dink. I just turned the final
• 2:16:56
  page of Worthy and damn, I going to get you
• 2:17:00
  to do the Damn how would he say it?
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: Damn?
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 3: I just turned the final page of Worthy, and Damn,
• 2:17:08
  it is amazing to realize that, despite having lived most
• 2:17:12
  of my life by your side, I still found myself
• 2:17:17
  shocked and stunned and caught of God, laughing, then inspired,
• 2:17:26
  then heartbroken. I was all over the place. It's one
• 2:17:31
  thing to hear anecdotes at a family barbecue, but it
• 2:17:36
  was truly overwhelming to take in your story potently condensed
• 2:17:40
  in this way. You are one of one, a rare
• 2:17:46
  blend of power and delicate sensitivity. I know it wasn't
• 2:17:52
  easy to excavate the depths in that way. I applaud
• 2:17:58
  and honor you. If I had read this book thirty
• 2:18:03
  years ago, I definitely would have hugged you more. I'll
• 2:18:11
  start now. Welcome to the author's club. I love you endlessly.
• 2:18:18
  Now go get some merlow and take a rest.
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: No, I can't have no more love. That's beautiful. That's
• 2:18:31
  why I can't divorce that joker.
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's one line that really hit me, and I
• 2:18:41
  want to hear obviously how you felt. But he said,
• 2:18:44
  if I had read this book thirty years ago, I
• 2:18:48
  definitely would have hugged you more. I'll start now, how
• 2:18:53
  did it feel? Listening to parts of that.
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: You know, one of the things I talk about in
• 2:18:58
  the book a Lot is perspective. When we got married,
• 2:19:05
  Will had to be twenty eight twenty nine. We had
• 2:19:08
  such different needs, no right or wrong. You know, Will
• 2:19:15
  was very driven. But I got married because I was
• 2:19:21
  pregnant and I wanted a family. And now I must
• 2:19:26
  say that was the one thing we both wanted to
• 2:19:30
  create a family we never had, but what we thought
• 2:19:33
  took having a healthy family. Will believed, man, as long
• 2:19:38
  as I get out here, make money, get the biggest house,
• 2:19:42
  make sure you guys don't need anything. That's how you
• 2:19:45
  have a great family. And my thing was like, no
• 2:19:50
  but love and you know, me and you we got
• 2:19:53
  a da da da da. You know, everything was centered
• 2:19:55
  around feelings love, da da da da. We just couldn't
• 2:19:59
  find agreement because we thought we had two different goals
• 2:20:03
  around what it took. And so to hear him say
• 2:20:12
  that he would have hugged me more is me hearing
• 2:20:18
  him say he would have taken a bit more time
• 2:20:22
  to listen and understand. And that doesn't mean that he
• 2:20:28
  would have to be off his path, but just to
• 2:20:30
  take a little bit more time to listen and understand.
• 2:20:34
  And I think when we're young, because that was the
• 2:20:37
  same way. I mean, when we were young, you just
• 2:20:41
  think your way is the only way. And I think
• 2:20:45
  that where Will and I are getting to now is
• 2:20:49
  understanding that our ways. My way is just one way,
• 2:20:54
  his way is just one way. And then how do
• 2:20:57
  we listen to each other more to blend those ways.
• 2:21:02
  I was very careful and not going into romanticized regret
• 2:21:10
  after hearing that line. I wish I could have hugged
• 2:21:13
  you more, but I will do so now right. I
• 2:21:17
  was like, no, no, no, you're not going to go
• 2:21:19
  into romanticized regret wo, because what I know as a
• 2:21:26
  fact is that every step, everything that is transpired between
• 2:21:33
  us has been absolutely perfect, all the beauty and all
• 2:21:40
  the ugly to get us to a place that we're
• 2:21:44
  coming to. You know, And you could you could go, oh,
• 2:21:48
  I wish that, you know, I had known this when
• 2:21:50
  I was younger. That's the whole point of youth, you
• 2:21:52
  don't know, you know what I mean? And then to
• 2:21:57
  really just to be able to embrace like this time
• 2:22:00
  in my life and in his life and coming into
• 2:22:03
  newfound wisdom and enjoy that. But I'm so glad that
• 2:22:11
  getting closer to that blend between us, And that's what
• 2:22:18
  I'm saying. It's like, who else am I going to
• 2:22:21
  grow with like that and be able to have those
• 2:22:25
  that deep cherished moment of like when you can look
• 2:22:28
  back at where you were thirty years ago and where
• 2:22:33
  we've traveled to get to this moment right here, right now,
• 2:22:39
  this beautiful family. Without him, I went, I've had Jaden, Willow, Trey,
• 2:22:46
  Oh my gosh, there are no greater treasures than those three.
• 2:22:52
  And then all of the magnificent experiences he and I've
• 2:22:55
  had together, the great ones and the not so great
• 2:23:00
  us you know, but they're ours, part of our tapestry.
• 2:23:06
  One thing I talk about in the book going to
• 2:23:09
  see Ruby d when I needed some marital advice and
• 2:23:13
  she told me laugh now, because you're gonna laugh later.
• 2:23:19
  And it's so true. I didn't know what she was
• 2:23:20
  talking about then, but she'd been married at that time
• 2:23:24
  for fifty some years. I see what was gone. Ozzie
• 2:23:29
  Davis had passed on, you know. And one of the
• 2:23:31
  things she said to me, I said, what's one of
• 2:23:34
  your biggest regrets? And she said, I wished I had
• 2:23:37
  laughed with him? More and that never leaves my mind
• 2:23:42
  to just find ways to get through the bumpies, to
• 2:23:45
  get through the bumpy stuff. And let's get back to
• 2:23:47
  some laughter and some joy.
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 3: In any case, you want to read it again, yeah,
• 2:23:57
  And I want to thank you for you know, your vulnerability,
• 2:24:03
  your openness today and the vulnerability in the book that
• 2:24:09
  you shared so profoundly today. But the book you get
• 2:24:14
  to weave the tapestry together and the lessons and where
• 2:24:17
  they come in your life. And I really, I really
• 2:24:21
  believe that anyone who will read this book will gain
• 2:24:27
  access to a much deeper understanding of themselves as a
• 2:24:31
  mirror and also get an opportunity to reframe, rethink, renew
• 2:24:40
  ideas perspective thoughts about their own journey.
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 1: That is all that I want. Like, we have so
• 2:24:47
  much fear around allowing people their journeys because we can
• 2:24:54
  tend to get hurt within them along the way, but
• 2:24:57
  it's inevitable. And the more we can have acceptance for
• 2:25:01
  the reality that life is a journey, nobody is meant
• 2:25:06
  to be perfect. It baffles me. Well, actually, let me
• 2:25:11
  take that back. It doesn't baffle me because I've been there.
• 2:25:16
  It doesn't baffle me I've been there where, just being
• 2:25:21
  afraid to allow what is to be, and that is
• 2:25:26
  embracing our humanness and learning how to love each other
• 2:25:31
  through our humanness. All this cancel culture and all of
• 2:25:35
  this that is purely a rejection of aspects of ourselves
• 2:25:41
  and a rejection of humanness. And that's where unconditional love
• 2:25:48
  has its most power. Right, But if we can learn
• 2:25:50
  to do that with us, starting with ourselves, right, learning
• 2:25:53
  how to have unconditional love for ourselves and have acceptance
• 2:25:56
  for our journey. And that's what I want from this book.
• 2:26:00
  I'm just putting it out there like a this is
• 2:26:04
  what my journey looks like, and it ain't cute. This
• 2:26:09
  is what I've learned along the way, and this is
• 2:26:11
  how I learned how to gain self worth and to
• 2:26:15
  feel worthy about it.
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 3: All about it, all.
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 1: About it, all Jay, every piece of it, And that's
• 2:26:24
  all I want for everybody else. It's okay, it's okay.
• 2:26:29
  You don't have to come down on yourself. And just
• 2:26:32
  because we stumble and we might lose our way doesn't
• 2:26:36
  mean we're lost forever. Thank you Charles Xavier from x
• 2:26:40
  Men for that statement.
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 3: I love our friend.
• 2:26:45
  Speaker 1: I did too, Charles laid it out just like that.
• 2:26:48
  I had to put that quote in my book, but
• 2:26:51
  it's true, and that's all I want for everybody. We
• 2:26:55
  are all worthy, embracing it all, every aspect of our journey.
• 2:27:01
  That is the thing that makes us worthy.
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 3: We're harder on others because we're so hard on ourselves.
• 2:27:07
  We're hard on ourselves because we're so hard on others,
• 2:27:09
  and that cycle keeps repeating itself. Point out someone's flaw
• 2:27:13
  because we're pointing them out in ourselves, but not looking
• 2:27:16
  at the growth we're trying to make and the growth
• 2:27:18
  someone else trying to make, the healing journey that they're on,
• 2:27:20
  and the healing journey that we're on. And as you
• 2:27:23
  were just saying that, what came to my mind was
• 2:27:25
  that we all have to take the same steps, but
• 2:27:29
  on our own path. And I think what this book
• 2:27:32
  does so gracefully is show your steps, which reminds us
• 2:27:37
  all that even if we trip and we fall, which
• 2:27:40
  we inevitably will, there's still another step after that that
• 2:27:45
  we can take. And that ultimate step is what you
• 2:27:51
  just so beautifully put the step of recognizing that all
• 2:27:54
  of it was worthy, all of it was part of
• 2:27:57
  that journey towards self worth.
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 1: And that you're loved, You're loved, and you're held no
• 2:28:08
  matter what. Through all of the scrutiny and through all
• 2:28:12
  of the I don't know stones that were thrown at
• 2:28:15
  me as painful as all of that was what a
• 2:28:21
  beautiful gauntlet to get me to the understanding that it's
• 2:28:27
  only our self judgment that's the true enemy. And I
• 2:28:33
  got to cure so much of my own self judgment
• 2:28:36
  through all of that. It's almost like being like wonder woman,
• 2:28:40
  you know, per Pere Pard, you know what I mean.
• 2:28:43
  It's like the Great Supreme makes it so that you're
• 2:28:48
  invincible to all the criticism, anything else anybody has to
• 2:28:53
  say about you. When you get that true sense of worthiness,
• 2:29:02
  doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, doesn't matter what other
• 2:29:05
  misunderstandings are happening. And I want that for everybody. It's
• 2:29:10
  a superpower, but it's not given without the trial. It's beautiful,
• 2:29:18
  It's beautiful, it's beautiful. Thank you. I'm so grateful and
• 2:29:22
  thank you Jay.
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Ja.
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you Jay. You've been so good to me
• 2:29:26
  through it all. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you,
• 2:29:29
  thank you.
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 3: So grateful to you too as well for letting me
• 2:29:33
  be a small part of the journey, because it's one
• 2:29:36
  that you give me the bravery to tread myself. So
• 2:29:39
  thank you. If you love this episode, you love my
• 2:29:43
  interview with Will Smith on owning your truth and unlocking
• 2:29:46
  the power of manifestation. Anybody who hasn't spoken to their
• 2:29:50
  parents or their brother, call them right now.
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 1: Don't think you're going to have a chance to call
• 2:29:57
  them tomorrow or next week.
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 3: That opportunity unity with my father changed every relationship in
• 2:30:04
  my life.