Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'CSI' STAR ACTRESS STALKED, THREATENED WITH RAPE & MURDER

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'CSI' STAR ACTRESS STALKED, THREATENED WITH RAPE & MURDER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen CSI Miami, Because I have and
0:14
Speaker 1: it's incredible. And one actress that is especially incredible is
0:20
Speaker 1: Eva LaRue. Now, what you may not know is that
0:26
Speaker 1: this screen star and her little daughter have been stalked,
0:35
Speaker 1: stalked with threats to rape and kill her, to rape
0:43
Speaker 1: her little daughter. I have a daughter. I think I'd
0:47
Speaker 1: lose my mind if someone said that to me about
0:51
Speaker 1: my daughter or my son. And how she live for
0:55
Speaker 1: twelve years with this threat hanging over her and get
1:01
Speaker 1: up and perform in front of the camera and raise
1:04
Speaker 1: her child the way that she did. This woman has
1:08
Speaker 1: got to have nerves of steel for Pete's sake. I
1:12
Speaker 1: Meancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for being
1:16
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one
1:19
Speaker 1: eleven twelve years. This woman, this star stalked by a
1:28
Speaker 1: maniac threatening unspeakable acts or not only her but her
1:34
Speaker 1: little girl. Take a listen to Eva on Access. The
1:39
Speaker 1: letters started coming just totally out of the blue, and
1:44
Speaker 1: they would detail the most grotesque, deviant, nightmarish detail. He
1:50
Speaker 1: was going to disembowel and dismember us both slowly. He
1:55
Speaker 1: was going to kidnap my then five year old and
1:58
Speaker 1: myself I was a single mom of the time, and
2:00
Speaker 1: that he was gonna hold us hostage, keep us as
2:03
Speaker 1: sex slaves. He was obsessed with impregnating my baby. Okay
2:08
Speaker 1: whoa Okay, i'bsessed with raping and impregnating her baby, girdle,
2:16
Speaker 1: holding her hostage, and keeping her and her daughter as
2:19
Speaker 1: sex slaves. That was Eva speaking to Access joining me
2:25
Speaker 1: right now and all Star panelt of a guest but
2:28
Speaker 1: special guest Evil LaRue, Emmy Award winning actress. You can
2:34
Speaker 1: find her at evil LaRue dot com. She's also on
2:37
Speaker 1: Insta and Twitter. Eva. I just I don't know why
2:42
Speaker 1: if I should try to rush toward you to get
2:44
Speaker 1: your autograph or hug you and pat your back and
2:46
Speaker 1: tell you how sorry I am after everything you've been through.
2:49
Speaker 1: I mean, I've read your story, but what really got
2:53
Speaker 1: me is the threats on your daughter. I cannot even
2:59
Speaker 1: and imagine that happening. When did this whole thing start?
3:04
Speaker 1: This this whole thing started in two thousand and seven, um,
3:08
Speaker 1: when I got the very first letter. But you're absolutely right,
3:11
Speaker 1: Like the the only job that we have as parents
3:16
Speaker 1: is to keep our children safe, and when that is
3:21
Speaker 1: taken away from you, by all counts, um, and every
3:25
Speaker 1: day you don't know if you can keep your only child,
3:27
Speaker 1: say you you you feel like you've completely you complete,
3:32
Speaker 1: completely failed. It's one it's one thing when it's talking
3:36
Speaker 1: threats are coming to you, that has its own um
3:40
Speaker 1: terroristic fear that comes with it, you know, every every day.
3:44
Speaker 1: But when it's when it's aimed at your daughter, your
3:48
Speaker 1: baby girl, you know, because it's all started happening when
3:50
Speaker 1: she's five. Now she's twenty, but so her entire um,
3:54
Speaker 1: you know, for me to um you know, her her
3:59
Speaker 1: entire growing up, she's had this fear, of this anxiety.
4:01
Speaker 1: Although she didn't know what was in the letters when
4:05
Speaker 1: she was little, I still had to make her very
4:07
Speaker 1: aware of keeping her head on a swivel, of knowing
4:10
Speaker 1: as much as she could that there are people out
4:12
Speaker 1: there that might want to take her, that might want
4:14
Speaker 1: to take me, that you know, that they're threatening us.
4:18
Speaker 1: But I never let her know what was in the
4:19
Speaker 1: letters until much later when she was a team. And
4:22
Speaker 1: even so she didn't find out about some of the
4:25
Speaker 1: most famous things he wanted to do to us until
4:27
Speaker 1: we were actually in the courtroom that day, because I
4:31
Speaker 1: didn't want those her perseperating on that her entire life,
4:34
Speaker 1: you know, and during her formulative bleak years, even LaRue
4:38
Speaker 1: Star c Sign Miami and so much more. I'm just
4:45
Speaker 1: trying to get my mind around what you must have
4:49
Speaker 1: thought when you got the first letter. Were they not
4:52
Speaker 1: signed by quote Freddie Krueger they were? I think I
4:57
Speaker 1: think he thought that was funny. I think he thought
5:01
Speaker 1: that was a joke. There were many of the letters
5:03
Speaker 1: that said, you know you're a CSI come find me
5:06
Speaker 1: haunting you. Take a listen to our friend Mario Lopez.
5:12
Speaker 1: We all know Mario at Access Listen. Most of the
5:15
Speaker 1: stalker's threats are far too vile to share on television,
5:17
Speaker 1: and they eventually began to mention Eva's young daughter, Kaya,
5:20
Speaker 1: who was only five years old at the time, stating,
5:23
Speaker 1: I would think you would want to stop me for
5:24
Speaker 1: your daughter, c You should be very scared of me,
5:28
Speaker 1: you know. Very often Eva, My children, my twins John
5:33
Speaker 1: Damon Lucy are old enough to go online now and
5:36
Speaker 1: they have gone on and they said, Mom, why did
5:39
Speaker 1: this person say this about you? They'll be like you're ugly,
5:43
Speaker 1: why are you on TV? Or I hate you should die?
5:46
Speaker 1: And I try to say, listen you know what, they're
5:49
Speaker 1: always people. They're gonna hate you and dislike you no
5:53
Speaker 1: matter what you know. And they say, Mom, you're trying
5:57
Speaker 1: to fight the bag, as I know, but it doesn't matter.
6:01
Speaker 1: That's how everybody doesn't see you the way you see yourself, ignored,
6:05
Speaker 1: They don't even know you. Just forget it, because in
6:08
Speaker 1: life you're going to have to deal with people that bully,
6:11
Speaker 1: try to bully you, or threaten you or make you
6:14
Speaker 1: feel bad. But when you got that letter, that first letter,
6:20
Speaker 1: did you think, well, I'll never meet him, I'll never
6:24
Speaker 1: see him in person, or did you think, wow, this
6:26
Speaker 1: is a real threat. Oh my god, No, I thought
6:29
Speaker 1: immediately it was a real threat. I had no idea
6:33
Speaker 1: where he was, where the letter was coming from. I
6:35
Speaker 1: didn't know if he lived down the street. I didn't
6:38
Speaker 1: know if he was already following me. I didn't know
6:40
Speaker 1: if I didn't know what he knew about me, like
6:43
Speaker 1: where I worked, where she went to school. We didn't
6:46
Speaker 1: know anything, and that was where the greatest fear was,
6:50
Speaker 1: and we were constantly looking over our shoulder. We didn't
6:52
Speaker 1: know if he was going to show up on the
6:53
Speaker 1: doorstep at any at any moment at the time, David
6:56
Speaker 1: Carusoe had to stalker and Emily Procter had a stalker,
7:00
Speaker 1: and their stalkers they knew who their stalkers were, not
7:04
Speaker 1: that that was better. That's the problem with stalking. It's
7:08
Speaker 1: such an amorphous. There's so many gradations of it, right,
7:12
Speaker 1: and it's each person's story is so very different. David
7:18
Speaker 1: Carusoe stalker lived in Europe, was madly in love with him,
7:21
Speaker 1: and when he didn't, you know, respond to any of
7:23
Speaker 1: her letters, she started saying, I'm going to blow up
7:27
Speaker 1: your house. I'm going to kidnap your kid from college.
7:29
Speaker 1: I'm going to hold her hostage until you come and like,
7:32
Speaker 1: marry me and love me. And she ended up being
7:34
Speaker 1: put on the no fly zone. But this went on
7:36
Speaker 1: for months. A month. He was scared to death. He
7:39
Speaker 1: was scared to emil A. Proctor, her stalker showed up
7:43
Speaker 1: to her house, walked in her house, but was a nice,
7:46
Speaker 1: kindly stalker, so it was it didn't you know, nobody
7:50
Speaker 1: was too worried for her, which is shocking because people,
7:54
Speaker 1: I mean, as you know, for all the stories, people
7:57
Speaker 1: go from being a nice, kindly peeping tom to a
8:00
Speaker 1: murderer in not much time I had one of my
8:05
Speaker 1: I guess health place talker was the stereotypical. He thought
8:09
Speaker 1: I was sending him messages over the airwaves, and I
8:11
Speaker 1: didn't think much of it until he showed up in
8:14
Speaker 1: the lobby of CNN in New York with his suitcase
8:18
Speaker 1: us to start our life together. This was after I
8:21
Speaker 1: was married and had the twins. Okay, guys, take a
8:24
Speaker 1: listen again to our friend, a Mario Lopez. She's beloved
8:28
Speaker 1: for her role as Maria Santos on All My Children
8:31
Speaker 1: and as Detective Natalia boa Vista on the hit show
8:33
Speaker 1: CSI Miami. Eva played a DNA analyst, which became a
8:37
Speaker 1: cruel irony when she started receiving letters from a stalker
8:40
Speaker 1: during her second full season in two thousand and seven,
8:43
Speaker 1: and the FBI was unable to determine who was sending them. Okay,
8:46
Speaker 1: that kind of stumps me right there. Let me go
8:49
Speaker 1: out to Stephen Kramer, a former FBI now lawyer president
8:54
Speaker 1: Indigo Solutions. Steven, when you get a written letter like
9:00
Speaker 1: Eva LaRue did well many of them. We can't find
9:04
Speaker 1: out where the postmarks from. Get DNA off the stamp, nothing,
9:08
Speaker 1: no fingerprints. Oh of course you could I mean that
9:11
Speaker 1: was one of the things that was done early on
9:13
Speaker 1: in this particular case, is getting the DNA off of
9:17
Speaker 1: the envelopes, off of the stamps, and the FBI was
9:21
Speaker 1: able to get DNA and they took that DNA, they
9:24
Speaker 1: put it into the National DNA Index System, which is called,
9:27
Speaker 1: as you probably know, the CODAS system, and there was
9:31
Speaker 1: no hit and it went on for ten years like that.
9:34
Speaker 1: Where do you think they got the DNA off the stamp?
9:37
Speaker 1: Steven believe it was off the stamp on some of
9:39
Speaker 1: the letters, or off the envelope. Some of the envelopes
9:43
Speaker 1: didn't have DNA on it and so they have to
9:46
Speaker 1: get it from a different envelope. But actually they got
9:49
Speaker 1: dozens of samples. There were thirty seven letters, right Evah, No,
9:54
Speaker 1: and there were more than that. Somebody said that there
9:57
Speaker 1: was really yeah, there was. Somebody reported that there a seven,
10:00
Speaker 1: but there's been some inaccuracies in some of the reports.
10:02
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, there were there were more than one
10:04
Speaker 1: hundred letters that came over twelve years. Oh my stars. Yeah,
10:07
Speaker 1: let's go out to Stephen Bush joining me, former FBI
10:11
Speaker 1: Special Agent and CEO of Indago Solutions. Steven, thank you
10:15
Speaker 1: for being with us. I guess when these now over
10:18
Speaker 1: one hundred letters came at the beginning, we didn't have
10:22
Speaker 1: touched DNA. Yeah, Nancy, that's right. The DNA was taken
10:25
Speaker 1: off of these letters from the licked portion of the
10:29
Speaker 1: envelopes in most cases and in some cases from the stamps.
10:33
Speaker 1: And if Steve Kramer mentioned already, each time those profiles,
10:37
Speaker 1: they were str profiles, the ones that go into codas.
10:40
Speaker 1: The FBI put those profiles into codas, and that produced
10:44
Speaker 1: what we call a case to case match. So what
10:46
Speaker 1: it told us was it said, Hey, the same guy
10:49
Speaker 1: that sent the first letter sent the second, and the
10:51
Speaker 1: third and the fourth, but we don't know his identity.
10:54
Speaker 1: We don't know who that person is because his identity
10:57
Speaker 1: is not in coodus although his DnaA got it. You
11:00
Speaker 1: put his DNA in basically off the stamps on the
11:03
Speaker 1: sunderplus letters of threats to Eva. But he obviously either
11:09
Speaker 1: hadn't been arrested or had a government job where he
11:12
Speaker 1: had to give DNA, so you couldn't get a match.
11:16
Speaker 1: I get it, I get it. Crime stories with Nancy
11:32
Speaker 1: Grace Eva LaRue joining me as you heard earlier, star
11:40
Speaker 1: on All My Children on CSI Miami. It goes on
11:45
Speaker 1: and on all of her hits, but yet she was
11:52
Speaker 1: stalked all these years and her daughter. For all of
11:57
Speaker 1: you out there listening now that have been stalked, think
12:01
Speaker 1: about it. Here we have this glamorous Hollywood star and
12:05
Speaker 1: evil with FBI consultants. This guy is hard to stop evil.
12:12
Speaker 1: What were the original threats in the letters? I heard
12:16
Speaker 1: Mario Lopez say he couldn't even say them on TV.
12:20
Speaker 1: And how did they develop over the next hundred letters?
12:24
Speaker 1: You know, right out of the gate they were They
12:26
Speaker 1: were really horrifyingly deviant and evil, I mean, and they
12:32
Speaker 1: would even talk about um, Satanic rituals and you know,
12:36
Speaker 1: marrying us both in and holding us um the hostage
12:41
Speaker 1: of sex slaves and impregnating my daughter and then UM
12:46
Speaker 1: and then in in literally nightmarish detail, talk about how
12:51
Speaker 1: he was going to you know, continually rape and then
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Speaker 1: disembowel and dismember my daughter in front of me and
13:00
Speaker 1: then do the same to me. So it just it
13:02
Speaker 1: would it would seemed to always be some variation on
13:08
Speaker 1: the thing. Every single letter. Were they coming to your
13:12
Speaker 1: office or your home? Initially, the very first letter went
13:16
Speaker 1: to my manager's office. He didn't have my home address,
13:19
Speaker 1: thank god at the time, and they were going to
13:23
Speaker 1: my manager's office, and then eventually he found my home.
13:27
Speaker 1: When when it first happened, I was so scared. I
13:30
Speaker 1: was literally I was absolutely terrified. And I had a
13:35
Speaker 1: couple of weeks left at that point at the SI
13:38
Speaker 1: Miami before we went on hiatus that year, and the
13:40
Speaker 1: second we went on hiatus, a friend of mine said,
13:43
Speaker 1: you know what I've got. I have a house outside
13:46
Speaker 1: the country and we're going to be there this summer.
13:48
Speaker 1: Just come stay with us as long as you want.
13:50
Speaker 1: I took my daughter when we fled the country. That's
13:52
Speaker 1: how scared I was. I just I packed everything up
13:55
Speaker 1: and we fled the country and we were gone for
13:57
Speaker 1: a couple of months. I was just hoping it's something
14:00
Speaker 1: like he might show himself in some way that somebody,
14:05
Speaker 1: local law enforcement could catch him, anybody could catch him.
14:07
Speaker 1: But that was not the case. So when I came
14:10
Speaker 1: back to work, I hired me security. So in fear,
14:14
Speaker 1: she flees the country with her daughter, her only child,
14:18
Speaker 1: after threats that the two of them would be raped
14:22
Speaker 1: and disemboweled. Threatening to disembowel a little girl in front
14:27
Speaker 1: of her mother, They dismember they flee the country. Listen.
14:33
Speaker 1: At one point, Eva and Kaya even moved out of
14:36
Speaker 1: the country fearing for their lives, But soon after moving back,
14:40
Speaker 1: even with a hidden address, another letter arrived. I am
14:44
Speaker 1: going to take my revenge upon you and your daughter.
14:47
Speaker 1: There will be no place on this earth that I
14:49
Speaker 1: can't find you. The stalk or then located and started
14:52
Speaker 1: calling Kaya's school, leaving horrifying messages. Can you imagine not
14:57
Speaker 1: only are you being stalked, but your little girl also
15:01
Speaker 1: being stalked. Listen to Kaya. It was intimidation and fear
15:06
Speaker 1: and psychological and emotional terrorism on a whole different level.
15:12
Speaker 1: What were your earliest memories. Something had happened where our
15:16
Speaker 1: address was leaked and we were actually in the middle
15:19
Speaker 1: of the night packing up all our things, and then
15:21
Speaker 1: I remember being so young, just being like really settling
15:23
Speaker 1: the effects of what it is to you know, not
15:27
Speaker 1: only have a mom in the spotlight, but also have
15:29
Speaker 1: someone emotionally terrorizing you. I'm just trying to understand how
15:35
Speaker 1: did your address get leaked? Eva? Well, at the time,
15:39
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of a whole other story. But
15:44
Speaker 1: because we had, you know, we had a gate gate
15:48
Speaker 1: and hedge issue in and I had to I was
15:50
Speaker 1: at the city at getting a variant for these things,
15:55
Speaker 1: and the city leaked by address on the online camp
15:58
Speaker 1: you know, on their online court camera. Um, they said
16:03
Speaker 1: my address on the online court camera, and immediately it
16:06
Speaker 1: was out and um. And then even the news cameras
16:10
Speaker 1: came like a couple of days later saying you see
16:12
Speaker 1: that you have a you know, you're trying to get
16:14
Speaker 1: a variance with I was like, how is that news?
16:17
Speaker 1: But you all just found my address and within about
16:20
Speaker 1: a week the letters started coming directly to my house.
16:23
Speaker 1: So he must have been watching every single thing about you. Yes,
16:27
Speaker 1: he was. Well, we didn't know who he was, but
16:30
Speaker 1: he was on our social media. Um, Steve and Steve
16:34
Speaker 1: both found him, you know, following us, UM, following Kay
16:38
Speaker 1: and I both on Instagram, UM, and me on Twitter.
16:42
Speaker 1: And so he was he was following everybody. And then
16:45
Speaker 1: you know, now, um, both Steve and I were sitting
16:48
Speaker 1: at lunch the other day and you know, he just
16:51
Speaker 1: put in my name and add past addresses came up.
16:56
Speaker 1: Thank god my current address didn't come up in there.
16:58
Speaker 1: But because I had to start, but I had to
17:01
Speaker 1: move obviously overnight and I bought my next house in
17:05
Speaker 1: an LLFC. It's not registered to me. So and then
17:08
Speaker 1: even so seven years later he found that address and
17:11
Speaker 1: I had to buy my next house in Stephen Kramer,
17:15
Speaker 1: former FBI in Daga solicious. How did he keep finding her?
17:21
Speaker 1: That's a very good question. We don't know. I think
17:24
Speaker 1: he was just diligent on the internet, diligent following Eva,
17:29
Speaker 1: and eventually, you know, he would get lucky that he'd
17:32
Speaker 1: tracked down, for instance, Kaia's high school. She was at
17:35
Speaker 1: a private high school, and he somehow managed to find that,
17:37
Speaker 1: either to social media or other means. We aren't exactly
17:42
Speaker 1: sure how he did it, but that was also part
17:44
Speaker 1: of you know, the concern is, yeah, he's mailing these
17:47
Speaker 1: letters from we believe Ohio, that's where some of them
17:50
Speaker 1: are postmarked. But he could be in Los Angeles. He
17:53
Speaker 1: could be following her around. We did not know that.
17:55
Speaker 1: So those were some of the major concerns that we
17:57
Speaker 1: had about trying to identify this guy. Apprhanded. Yeah, between
18:02
Speaker 1: that and the threat of disembowelment or rape and dismemberment,
18:05
Speaker 1: you the two Steves, I have your hands full. I'm
18:09
Speaker 1: going to go to Scott Johnson forensic psychologists joining us.
18:12
Speaker 1: But Scott, I want you to hear this. You heard
18:15
Speaker 1: earlier where the stock would actually call this. He tracked
18:19
Speaker 1: down the school where he was daughter attended. Take a
18:23
Speaker 1: listen to my senior year when I was called into
18:28
Speaker 1: my front office. Your dad says he's going to pick
18:30
Speaker 1: you up. Yeah, stand out in front of the school. Yeah.
18:33
Speaker 1: So then I was like, I text my dad was like, yeah,
18:35
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? And he was like, no,
18:38
Speaker 1: I never called the school and I'm not here. And
18:40
Speaker 1: it just clicked and I went, oh my god, it's
18:43
Speaker 1: my stalker. You are hearing EMA's daughter talk about an
18:48
Speaker 1: attempt to kidnap her Farmers school posing as her dad.
18:54
Speaker 1: And we all know that if the kidnapped her game
18:57
Speaker 1: get close enough to the child to speak through the window.
19:01
Speaker 1: It's a hot skip at a jump to grab the
19:03
Speaker 1: child anyway. You can get them by the arm, the clothes,
19:07
Speaker 1: the neck, the collar, and yanked them into the car.
19:10
Speaker 1: It's all over in less than thirty seconds. Take a
19:15
Speaker 1: listen to more of what Eva's door Kaya says. That's
19:18
Speaker 1: horriing a little bit. It's it's twenty fifteen now, you're you're,
19:21
Speaker 1: you're thirteen, the letters started being in particular address to you.
19:25
Speaker 1: I have such severe anxiety even now to this day,
19:28
Speaker 1: because for me, it was just so paralyzing to go
19:31
Speaker 1: to school and to not know, you know, if I
19:34
Speaker 1: was going to get picked up, or if I was
19:36
Speaker 1: going to come home one day and my mom was
19:38
Speaker 1: just going to be found dead on the floor. You know.
19:40
Speaker 1: Um Eva LaRue Emmy Award winning actress speaking out to
19:46
Speaker 1: all stalking victims right now. The fact that my daughter says, Mom, Mom,
19:56
Speaker 1: I love you, You're You're my world. The fact that
20:01
Speaker 1: Kai had to worry about coming in and finding you dead.
20:05
Speaker 1: Can you imagine? No? I cannot. Yeah. And she said
20:09
Speaker 1: that she has started having those fears at about six
20:11
Speaker 1: years old. That she said, you know, she had the
20:14
Speaker 1: fear of her coming home her backpack and her holding
20:17
Speaker 1: her a little, you know, lunch pail and coming in.
20:21
Speaker 1: She said she always was afraid opening the door, like
20:23
Speaker 1: was she going to come in and find her mother,
20:26
Speaker 1: you know, dead on the floor like that. That was
20:29
Speaker 1: a fear of hers for her whole life. She literally
20:32
Speaker 1: she deals with anxiety constantly, just trying to take that in.
20:36
Speaker 1: I mean every once in a while. I mean, but
20:39
Speaker 1: that kind of trauma changes your brain chemistry. Yes, yes,
20:43
Speaker 1: you're right. My daughter will have dreams. Just go mom,
20:46
Speaker 1: Mama dreams. Something happened to you. And I think it's
20:50
Speaker 1: like that thing you love the most, your fear, that
20:52
Speaker 1: will be taken away, and now the letters start coming
20:56
Speaker 1: to your daughter. How did you get through that? Emotionally?
21:02
Speaker 1: It really is psychological emotional terrorism on a whole different level.
21:09
Speaker 1: It just it just is when you're constantly in fear,
21:12
Speaker 1: it really changes everything about who you are and how
21:16
Speaker 1: you operate. How did you hook up with the two
21:18
Speaker 1: Steve Stephen Bush and Stephen Kramer, both former FBI also
21:24
Speaker 1: president and CEO of Indago Solutions. How did you hook
21:27
Speaker 1: up with them? Ema? Well, Steve Kramer and Steve Bush
21:31
Speaker 1: are absolutely, just for the record, absolutely my heroes. They
21:37
Speaker 1: are angels walking on earth like they when it when
21:42
Speaker 1: the motto Protect and Serve is brought up. They are
21:46
Speaker 1: the paradigm of that. Because for twelve years I had
21:53
Speaker 1: I had one FBI contact agent who was in charge
21:57
Speaker 1: of my case, and he was lovely and he was
21:59
Speaker 1: every years we would get together and he would tell
22:02
Speaker 1: me any upstates on the case. But up until then,
22:06
Speaker 1: if someone's not in Kodis, there's just nothing they could do.
22:09
Speaker 1: There's no way to identify this person. And with ironic
22:12
Speaker 1: is being on CSI Miami, everybody was in Kodis, right,
22:16
Speaker 1: we always got our guy, every person, everybody who was
22:19
Speaker 1: a bad guy vodis. We'd got a hit. In forty
22:22
Speaker 1: three minutes, the case is solved. Well, in reality, not
22:26
Speaker 1: everybody's in Kodis. Eighty plus percent of the people were
22:29
Speaker 1: in quotas are already in jail, and the other percentage
22:32
Speaker 1: of them are people who are are John Doe's because
22:36
Speaker 1: they're in there from rape, chitch or murder, you know,
22:40
Speaker 1: or crime scenes, but they don't they don't have a
22:42
Speaker 1: name yet. Right, So cut to Kaya's senior year, and
22:51
Speaker 1: all of the confluence of all these things just happened
22:53
Speaker 1: at once where he found Kaya's school. I believe he
22:57
Speaker 1: found her via Instagram. She posted something or one of
23:02
Speaker 1: her friends posted a picture with her in it, and
23:04
Speaker 1: then you can see the school banner in the background.
23:06
Speaker 1: Oh exactly. All you have to do is go down
23:08
Speaker 1: a little wormhole on somebody's Instagram, and even if they
23:13
Speaker 1: don't have any information in their photos, or on their
23:15
Speaker 1: photo page. You can just you can go down a
23:18
Speaker 1: wormhole seeing who tagged her in other pictures and go
23:22
Speaker 1: to a friend to their instagram, for instance, like if
23:26
Speaker 1: I don't put my location, and you see a picture
23:29
Speaker 1: of Jackie and myself and I don't reveal anything, but
23:34
Speaker 1: then you see Jackie's name, then you go to Jackie's
23:37
Speaker 1: Instagram and man, exactly there it is. You say, you
23:41
Speaker 1: know Westwood High School or whatever in the background, and
23:45
Speaker 1: it's all over And that's exactly how he found her.
23:48
Speaker 1: And he called the school pretending to be her dad
23:50
Speaker 1: and told the administrator at the school to tell her
23:53
Speaker 1: in class, your dad's get stand outside in front of
23:56
Speaker 1: the school and to pick you up after school. And
24:01
Speaker 1: then she texted me right away and she said, mom, dad.
24:04
Speaker 1: You know her dad at the time. He since passed away, unfortunately,
24:07
Speaker 1: but her dad lived in Palm Desert two and a
24:10
Speaker 1: half hours away, and he and I were great friends.
24:12
Speaker 1: There's no way he was going to come to down
24:14
Speaker 1: and not tell me that he's going to come to
24:15
Speaker 1: her up from school. No. In act, she's a senior
24:17
Speaker 1: in high school. She drove herself to school. She doesn't
24:18
Speaker 1: need to be picked up from school. So she immediately says, Mom,
24:22
Speaker 1: oh my god, it is dad in town. That just
24:24
Speaker 1: sounds really fishy. And so I called her dad and
24:27
Speaker 1: her dad was like, no, I'm not in town. So
24:29
Speaker 1: I raced to the school and I said, I'm picking
24:32
Speaker 1: my kid up from school. You know, in all her
24:34
Speaker 1: whole life, I've had to tell every school she went
24:36
Speaker 1: to visit the issue, please be on the lookout, she
24:39
Speaker 1: has a stalker. But we never had a reason to be,
24:43
Speaker 1: you know, worried until that point. And so the school was,
24:46
Speaker 1: you know, thought, oh, well, this is going to be
24:48
Speaker 1: a misunderstanding. I'm sure it's not a big deal. I
24:51
Speaker 1: bet they did, because they were about to send her
24:53
Speaker 1: outside to have her dad pick her up exactly. She
24:57
Speaker 1: could have been missing immediately, immediately, immediately. It's so fast,
25:02
Speaker 1: and you think, oh, I can't be dragged into a car.
25:06
Speaker 1: Yes you can. You can, even an adult, a female,
25:10
Speaker 1: especially one, grab if they're strong enough, kid get you
25:14
Speaker 1: right in. They don't even have to. They don't even
25:16
Speaker 1: have to use physical forces. If he had a gun,
25:18
Speaker 1: had a knife, whatever he could he could have, you know,
25:21
Speaker 1: just made her get in the car. For if you're
25:23
Speaker 1: getting shot or step up. What was going through your mind, Eva,
25:27
Speaker 1: when you're racing to the school. Oh my god, I
25:32
Speaker 1: thought he's at the school. He's stock in the school,
25:34
Speaker 1: he's near this's he's got his eye, he's there, he's
25:37
Speaker 1: somewhere around the school. Because now he knows where she is.
25:39
Speaker 1: Now he knows where she is every day. So I
25:42
Speaker 1: raced in the school, I pick her up. I call
25:44
Speaker 1: the FBI and I find out that that my point
25:48
Speaker 1: person had been promoted to another another department, and they
25:54
Speaker 1: tell me your new agents that are in charge of
25:57
Speaker 1: your case, we'll call you in the morning. I'm like,
25:59
Speaker 1: I'm telling you one heaven. I like, yeah, I need
26:01
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody right this. Please don't make me
26:03
Speaker 1: trash the FEBEs because I'm getting really close to it.
26:06
Speaker 1: Scott Johnson joining me Forensic psychologists joining us out in Minnesota,
26:10
Speaker 1: thirty two years specializing in sex predators. Author of physical
26:15
Speaker 1: Abusers and sex Offenders. You can find Scott Johnson at
26:19
Speaker 1: Forensic Consultation dot org. Scott Johnson, I mean what kind
26:24
Speaker 1: of I mean I don't agree with, but I get
26:28
Speaker 1: I love you, I want to marry you. You've got
26:31
Speaker 1: to divorce your husband and marry me. He's all wrong
26:33
Speaker 1: for you. That kind of letter versus I'm going to
26:37
Speaker 1: disembowel your daughter after I raper in front of your eyes,
26:42
Speaker 1: that's a whole nother thing. Scott Johnson. Right, So you're
26:45
Speaker 1: dealing with someone who's a psychopath and obviously a sadistic
26:49
Speaker 1: cyclopath because he's getting off on the fear he's instilling.
26:53
Speaker 1: But the most dangerous part of this is these are
26:56
Speaker 1: iguas of sessions, and for twelve plus years he's been
27:01
Speaker 1: following and acting on his obsession and so to instill
27:06
Speaker 1: fear in paranoia is part of what he gets out
27:10
Speaker 1: of this as a thrill, and so that's the power
27:14
Speaker 1: play for him. He's a psychopath. Now, when you say psychopath,
27:18
Speaker 1: for those of us that are not educated psychologists like yourself,
27:22
Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. What do you mean by that? Well,
27:25
Speaker 1: he has an abnormal brain. Okay, limited fear, limited remorse, anxiety,
27:31
Speaker 1: things like that. But he has a need to hurt
27:34
Speaker 1: people and he gets off on terrorizing people. When you
27:38
Speaker 1: say get off to umane, he enjoys it, He laughs
27:42
Speaker 1: about it, he relives it, or he actually sexually masturbates
27:47
Speaker 1: to it. For this particular offender probably all of the
27:50
Speaker 1: above because he's tied so strongly specific sex acts that
27:55
Speaker 1: he wants to do in with the mutilation and everything else.
27:59
Speaker 1: So to him, it's just one big power play. And
28:02
Speaker 1: the sad part is, and you know, not to try
28:06
Speaker 1: to make this sound you know who whoa? It's it
28:08
Speaker 1: is a who whoa issue because he probably won't stop
28:12
Speaker 1: until he is either a locked up permanently or be
28:16
Speaker 1: he successfully does what he wants to do. And so
28:19
Speaker 1: this is one person you left out. We kill him
28:22
Speaker 1: and that's what he wants to do, is to kidnap, rape, this,
28:26
Speaker 1: embowel and you know, kill And unfortunately, someone like this,
28:30
Speaker 1: he's not going to stop until he can do that
28:33
Speaker 1: because that's what he lives for. And the proof of
28:37
Speaker 1: that is twelve years of specific obsessive behavior, twelve years.
28:44
Speaker 1: Because I was trying to figure out Scott Johnson, and
28:47
Speaker 1: I learned this about five years into prosecuting violent felonies
28:51
Speaker 1: in inner city Atlanta. I would always wonder why why.
28:56
Speaker 1: One day I was sitting in the courtroom looking over
28:58
Speaker 1: at the defendant I was trying. Jury wasn't there, and
29:01
Speaker 1: I thought, why, ask why why do I care? Why?
29:05
Speaker 1: I will never prove why. All I need to know
29:08
Speaker 1: is who did this thing? And how do I stop him?
29:10
Speaker 1: But I am wondering why right now? What gratification would
29:15
Speaker 1: he get out of just sending letters and threatening her
29:18
Speaker 1: and scaring her and her daughter. Well, and that's the
29:20
Speaker 1: interesting part because that's where many stalkers stops. They might
29:24
Speaker 1: send some letters, a couple of phone calls. But he's
29:27
Speaker 1: persisted with this, which means he's really invested. He's got
29:30
Speaker 1: his you know, his whole life right now of obsessions
29:34
Speaker 1: is around him. Unfortunately, these these two victims and alcohol
29:39
Speaker 1: him victims. Eva LaRue is with us. You're hearing the
29:42
Speaker 1: voice of Scott Johnson, forensic psychologists joining us out of Minnesota.
29:46
Speaker 1: You can find it at Forensic Consultation dot org. Oh
30:03
Speaker 1: time Stories with Nancy Grace, Eva LaRue. I'm just trying
30:09
Speaker 1: to stain in your shoes for a moment. Every time
30:13
Speaker 1: I knew letter would come, how defeated, exhausted, afraid would
30:21
Speaker 1: you be? I mean, you could have a perfectly wonderful
30:24
Speaker 1: day and then you see the letter and you know
30:27
Speaker 1: immediately what it is. I knew the writing, I would
30:33
Speaker 1: have been able to identify the writing from across the street.
30:36
Speaker 1: Like I remember the two times that I opened the
30:41
Speaker 1: mailbox and he had found my address, my actual home address,
30:47
Speaker 1: and pulled the mail out in the mailbox, and and
30:51
Speaker 1: literally it felt like I had somebody had teased me.
30:56
Speaker 1: That's that. It felt like it was like an electrical
30:58
Speaker 1: shock through your system. That's like, oh my god, he
31:00
Speaker 1: found the house. Oh my god, we're out, we have
31:02
Speaker 1: to move. Did you ever saying they would bay and
31:06
Speaker 1: end in SI after twelve I really didn't. And then
31:10
Speaker 1: in that moment when they told me that my FBI agent,
31:14
Speaker 1: who had known everything about the case had left the case. Yeah,
31:19
Speaker 1: I got a phone call the next morning from my
31:22
Speaker 1: new FBI agents and charged the case. And that was
31:27
Speaker 1: that was Steve Bush. And overnight that night when he
31:34
Speaker 1: had been at the stalker had been acting like he
31:36
Speaker 1: was her father, and the school was the school was
31:39
Speaker 1: not efficiently freaked out like I wanted them to be.
31:43
Speaker 1: And but overnight right he called the school and he
31:48
Speaker 1: left a message on the answering machine at the school
31:51
Speaker 1: detailing all the things he had detailed in the letters.
31:55
Speaker 1: So by the time they got to school, the administration
31:57
Speaker 1: got to school in the morning, they were appropriate, completely free,
32:01
Speaker 1: And it took that to make them realize how much
32:04
Speaker 1: they screwed up. They were about to send your daughter
32:07
Speaker 1: out for a stalk or a grammar. Yeah, they were
32:09
Speaker 1: now that that actually wasn't their their fault because they
32:12
Speaker 1: when they first got the phone call, they had no
32:14
Speaker 1: idea that it was anybody other than death. But when
32:16
Speaker 1: we ran to the office and said, oh my god,
32:18
Speaker 1: this is the stalker, wait a minute, shouldn't there be
32:20
Speaker 1: some kind of verification even because I mean, anybody can
32:24
Speaker 1: call go I'm your dad, ever her outside and grammar
32:26
Speaker 1: and be gone exactly. Oh okay, guys, you earlier heard
32:32
Speaker 1: Eva LaRue, Emmy Award winning actress. I just can't say
32:36
Speaker 1: it enough. She has been the start of so many hits.
32:41
Speaker 1: You would know her name or her face anywhere. But
32:43
Speaker 1: it's not just her. Her daughter's been dragged into this.
32:46
Speaker 1: You heard her mention her two heroes. Okay, so far
32:53
Speaker 1: we haven't been able to get a DNA match. We've
32:57
Speaker 1: got his DNA off the stamps, off the ladders, but
33:02
Speaker 1: there's nothing to match it too, Joining US forensic psychologist
33:08
Speaker 1: Scott Josh Stephen Kramer Stephen Bush, when did you believe
33:13
Speaker 1: you had a break in the case. So it's important
33:16
Speaker 1: to understand a real brief timeline, Nancy of kind of
33:19
Speaker 1: how we got to that point. Steve Kramer and Paul
33:22
Speaker 1: Holes had already led the team in twenty eighteen. That's
33:25
Speaker 1: solved the Golden State killer case. I can imagine the
33:28
Speaker 1: phone start ringing off the hook at the FBI. Everybody
33:31
Speaker 1: wants to solve their case. If they have DNA of
33:34
Speaker 1: an unknown suspect, they want to solve the case. And
33:36
Speaker 1: so Steve and I form a program at the bureau
33:39
Speaker 1: to start doing this, and that leads us into early
33:42
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, when a very astute supervisor at the FBI
33:46
Speaker 1: assigned me full time to do this. He transfers me
33:50
Speaker 1: up to the Los Angeles office. I arrive at my
33:52
Speaker 1: new desk and I find a binder, a three ring
33:57
Speaker 1: chief government binder that on the outside side of it
34:00
Speaker 1: it says evil LaRue threat letters and it has an
34:03
Speaker 1: FBI case number. And I'm a curious guy, I'm an investigator.
34:06
Speaker 1: I open up this binder and I start reading these letters.
34:09
Speaker 1: That's when I first learned about the case. That's when
34:11
Speaker 1: I first realized this is a horrible, horrible thing that
34:15
Speaker 1: has happened to this innocent woman and her daughter. The
34:18
Speaker 1: next question I have is do we have adequate DNA.
34:21
Speaker 1: We call the FBI laboratory. We figure out that there's
34:24
Speaker 1: DNA all up and down this case, and that's when
34:27
Speaker 1: we knew Nancy. Once we have suspect DNA, Steve and
34:30
Speaker 1: I are confident that we can solve these cases. And
34:34
Speaker 1: we have to. We had to take that DNA and
34:35
Speaker 1: send it to a private laboratory to get the profile.
34:39
Speaker 1: It's different than the codus profile, the profile that you
34:42
Speaker 1: need to do genealogy. And at that point we know
34:44
Speaker 1: we've got a lead to start working on to find
34:47
Speaker 1: a solution to this case. And what was the profile?
34:49
Speaker 1: So the profile is called a it's called a SNIP profile.
34:51
Speaker 1: It's an acronym that stands for single nucleotide polymorphism. It's
34:55
Speaker 1: the same as the profile you get if you send
34:57
Speaker 1: your saliva to ancestry dot com or twenty three and me.
35:01
Speaker 1: And what that profile does is when we take in
35:03
Speaker 1: and we upload it to public databases. It doesn't tell
35:07
Speaker 1: us who the bad guy is, but it tells us
35:09
Speaker 1: who his relatives are. And by relatives, I mean people
35:13
Speaker 1: who share genetic code with when people who share DNA
35:17
Speaker 1: with him, and it could be very small amounts, a
35:19
Speaker 1: half a percent, a quarter of a percent, but from
35:22
Speaker 1: those folks, we are able to reverse engineer and triangulate
35:27
Speaker 1: a family tree to determine the source of that DNA,
35:30
Speaker 1: which in this case was the suspect. And then you
35:32
Speaker 1: start looking to see who resembles that DNA that's in town. Guys,
35:38
Speaker 1: take a listen again to our friends at Access. What
35:42
Speaker 1: they didn't know is at the exact same time, two
35:44
Speaker 1: former FBI agents were using new DNA technology that led
35:48
Speaker 1: them straight to Eva and kayas stalker, and they were
35:51
Speaker 1: on their way to arrest him. They literally went out
35:54
Speaker 1: the next day. They've got to go and stay him out,
35:57
Speaker 1: wait for him to throw out something that has DNA
35:59
Speaker 1: on it, and it was an Arby's cup and they
36:01
Speaker 1: got the DNA off the arty straw. It's amazing. Okay,
36:05
Speaker 1: you were just hearing Stephen Bush talking from in Dago's Solutions.
36:08
Speaker 1: Former FBI special Agent Stephen Kramer, a former FBI attorney
36:13
Speaker 1: present in Dago Solutions, tell me about that moment. I
36:17
Speaker 1: remember it really well. Steve Bush and myself were actually
36:21
Speaker 1: doing a genealogy, and that was sitting on our computers
36:25
Speaker 1: building these family trees, as Steve Bush mentioned, trying to
36:29
Speaker 1: figure out all the relatives who could be a person
36:33
Speaker 1: that was sending these letters. We were actually doing it
36:36
Speaker 1: on a Saturday afternoon at home, and as we came
36:41
Speaker 1: across the family and we narrowed it down, we found
36:44
Speaker 1: an individual who actually lived in Ohio. He looked good agewise.
36:50
Speaker 1: We obviously didn't know what do you look like. It's
36:52
Speaker 1: not a five year old boy or a ninety year
36:54
Speaker 1: old man, so he's in the pot of suspects. I
36:56
Speaker 1: got you exactly exactly. So we started looking at a
37:01
Speaker 1: little more carefully. We started scrubbing some of the social media,
37:04
Speaker 1: going to Leva's Instagram, Facebook accounts and seeing, you know,
37:08
Speaker 1: the people that followed her, and we were able to
37:11
Speaker 1: determine that this person that we were looking at was
37:15
Speaker 1: actually following her also of one of the many thousands
37:18
Speaker 1: of people on her social media. So that was like
37:21
Speaker 1: the big break. That's when Steve and I looked at
37:22
Speaker 1: each other kind of gave each other the high five
37:25
Speaker 1: that this is our guy, okay, who followed him into Arby's.
37:29
Speaker 1: That would have been part Steve, you want to take that? Yeah,
37:32
Speaker 1: so they're actually the way. This is one of the
37:34
Speaker 1: nice things about working at the FBI is when you
37:36
Speaker 1: have a suspect that lives out of state, you got
37:38
Speaker 1: a field officer. Yeah, you call, you call that field
37:40
Speaker 1: office and say, hey, Ohio, can you guys help us out.
37:43
Speaker 1: I will never be able to look at Arby's the
37:45
Speaker 1: same way again thinking about the case. Guys, it's been
37:50
Speaker 1: a horror story so far. But is there a happy
37:57
Speaker 1: ending it? Take a listen to our cut nine friends
38:00
Speaker 1: out of NBC four in Ohio man he's been sentenced
38:04
Speaker 1: to prison in Los Angeles and for admitting that he
38:06
Speaker 1: harassed a TV actress and her daughter for more than
38:09
Speaker 1: a decade. Fifty eight year old James Rogers of Heath
38:12
Speaker 1: was sentenced to forty months in prison. Rogers admitted to stocking,
38:16
Speaker 1: threatening and harassing actress Eva LaRue for twelve years straight
38:20
Speaker 1: out to Eva LaRue. The guys in jail for forty months.
38:23
Speaker 1: I think we could have done a little bit better,
38:26
Speaker 1: but I praised God. He's in jail. We know where
38:28
Speaker 1: he is. Reaction, Yeah, I am disappointed that he didn't
38:33
Speaker 1: get the minimum. The minimum on this case was forty
38:35
Speaker 1: six months and the maximum was fifty seven months for
38:39
Speaker 1: twelve years of being stoked. He only got three years.
38:44
Speaker 1: I don't know how somebody can take twelve years of
38:47
Speaker 1: your safety and mental health and only get three years.
38:55
Speaker 1: But but at least he got something. I mean, there's
38:57
Speaker 1: always I mean, you know, Nancy, there's always the possibility
39:00
Speaker 1: that they get nothing, Yes, that they only get probation.
39:03
Speaker 1: You know, he's been identified, he's behind bars, and how
39:07
Speaker 1: are you going to prepare for when he gets out? Eva? Well,
39:11
Speaker 1: that's the thing too. And I have to say, I'm
39:13
Speaker 1: so grateful to the US Attorney's office for even taking
39:16
Speaker 1: the case, because you know, the US attorneys have piles
39:19
Speaker 1: and piles and piles of cases that are not going
39:21
Speaker 1: to get adjudicated. And I don't even know what would
39:24
Speaker 1: have happened had they not taken the case. You know what, Eva,
39:27
Speaker 1: you are so right, he would still be free in Stocking. Yeah,
39:30
Speaker 1: I just gotta ask Stephen Kramer or Stephen Bush, who
39:33
Speaker 1: is this guy, James David Rogers h fifty eight? What
39:38
Speaker 1: is his story? You know, it's crazy, Nanthy. He was
39:40
Speaker 1: he was a certified nurse's aid. He was a CNA
39:44
Speaker 1: that worked at an old folks home, a senior living
39:46
Speaker 1: facility in Ohio. He had no prior criminal history that
39:51
Speaker 1: we were aware of. He lived with his elderly mom
39:55
Speaker 1: in her small place in Ohio, and so he had
39:59
Speaker 1: no previous from history. He was not a guy that
40:01
Speaker 1: was on our radar screen. And he had my wife
40:03
Speaker 1: and children, a girlfriend, and nothing not that we were
40:06
Speaker 1: aware of knowing. So he literally is the lonely white
40:08
Speaker 1: guy living in his mom's basement. Profilers all over the
40:11
Speaker 1: country are skipping up and down the hall right now
40:14
Speaker 1: because they were right. You know the fact that he
40:17
Speaker 1: is a psychopath and he's been under the you know,
40:19
Speaker 1: he's managed to avoid being on the radar. And I
40:23
Speaker 1: want to interject this one piece that you know that
40:26
Speaker 1: may affect supervision and everything else, is he knows how
40:29
Speaker 1: to work the system. And you know, he's a victim.
40:32
Speaker 1: He's got this, this, or he's got nothing except psychopath
40:35
Speaker 1: for a problem. And so but he'll apologized, but they're
40:39
Speaker 1: empty apologies because he loves to do what he does
40:43
Speaker 1: and you know, liking the stamps and things. I would
40:46
Speaker 1: think actually problem wasn't the mistake many most psychopaths don't
40:50
Speaker 1: care forly evidence because they want to see if people
40:53
Speaker 1: are too dmdumb to pick up on it, which, of
40:55
Speaker 1: course Steven Steve picked up on that. And I mean this,
41:00
Speaker 1: I just doesn't care until the job this sent well,
41:02
Speaker 1: all I can say right now is for this moment,
41:07
Speaker 1: Eva LaRue and her daughter can breathe easy. But because
41:10
Speaker 1: of his light sentence, they got to gear up and
41:13
Speaker 1: pronto for when this guy, James David Rogers walks free.
41:19
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing up Goodbye friend,