Latest / UK Column Radio / Is Progress a Good or Bad Thing? | Jerm Warfare

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Is Progress a Good or Bad Thing? | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This is a germ warfare, the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: battle of ideas. Yes, but you do look a little
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: bit dark and as you just said, Mike before I
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: hit record button, it goes with your personality.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I want to ask about the UK column event. It's
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: not less than two months away more or Les two
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: months away. We haven't spoken about it in months, and
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I think this is a great time to talk about it.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Quite agree, well done, and it is less than two
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: months away.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: You begin by saying you were going to ask something,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: and then you didn't ask anything.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: You're doing the meal, Charles. You that's what I was
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: going to ask.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Just when you've got the date right, Yeah.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's yeah, let's talk about it. I mean, it's
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: it's very exciting. It's the twentieth anniversary. Two weeks ago, Mike,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you were on my podcast when Charles was away and
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: we chatted about this trip. You get conum and now
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: it's the twentieth anniversary. It's a pretty it's a pretty
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: awesome date in twenty years, that is. I mean, I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: think a lot of mainstream media can't even last twenty years.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's say something.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Well, the key, the key thing is we got to
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: last another twenty and and of course, you know, lots
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: of things are ganging up against us at the moment,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: and the question is whether anybody is going to be
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: free to speak in twenty years time.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we'll come back to that. I've got a
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: great question about that, that freedom of speech topic question.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Are we playing with words today?
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I mean I thought this is called banter, jerm.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Well, okay, yes, let's let's banter. But let's first banter
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: about the event. Okay, so before you ruin the surprise,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to say anything yet about whether or
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: not I will be there, but let's talk about what
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: to expect.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Okay. Well, I thought you might have been extending that
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: with something more or a question.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: It's open, Charles.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: That's good. That is a relief, It's it is extremely exciting.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: I think the I think you're right. There are two
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: things going on because we've been we've we've got back
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: into hosting events over the last couple of years. So
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: there's the there's the there's the event, and then there's
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: the twenty years and they're both significant, and obviously the
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: one celebrates the other. But I think they are that
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: they do both deserve discussion sort of in their own right,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: because I think you're I think the point about not
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: just UK common but but anything lasting twenty years is
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: quite significant and and I think also specifically with your
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: comment about the mainstream and I know that from the
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: outside people will think that they are seeing or witnessing
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: something different and might will be able to explain exactly
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: why that is from sort of a tech and sort
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: of content capability point of view. But I think the
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: way that I would see it is that what is
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: remarkable is that what comes out of UK column now
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: is in principle at least exactly the same as where
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: it started. And I think that is really unusual in
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: a mainstream context. I think to be able to pick
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: a particular publication or sort of video content creator and
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: say that they're doing what they set out to do
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: still after twenty years, I don't think that would be
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: I don't think you'd really be finding that. And so
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: to have achieved that level of consistency of quality about
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: but but also the nature of what's being investigated and challenged,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: I think that's the that's the really significant bit. But
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: then again that is of course set alongside the burgeoning
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: censorship regime, and it's a it's a completely fascinating battle
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: to be part of. It is absolutely bizarre that people
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: cannot that so many people still cannot really understand what's happening,
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: and that the way that the backstory is told means
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: that for a lot of people, censorship or the restriction
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: of freedom of speech has been so aggressive that the
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: justifications are swallowed by an awful lot of people, and
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: so that that is one of the things that changes.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: But now, I mean not on the event side, it
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: was a very interesting one. You know, we had we'd
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: run events for the last couple of years. We've also been
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: out and gone to other outside events and spoken and
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: really enjoyed taking part in that. That sort of being
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: with people exercise and it's it is always worth doing.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: It's fantastic. But I've think we were quite right this
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: year to take the decision to just concentrate on the
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: one event that we were going to do, the twentieth
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: twenty one Versus event, and in order that we make
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: it distinctly different from the events that we have been
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: running over the past couple of years. And okay, people
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: will have to decide for themselves where they really think
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: we've done that. But I think in the planning and
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: the selection of speakers and the topics and the sort
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: of things we've got going on, I think that there
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: is going to be an awful lot that is absolutely
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: different from what we've done over the last couple of years.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: So that sort of that's the way I look at it.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: In a nutshell version, I think there's lots more than
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: gold and talk about. But Mike, I don't know. I mean,
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: your obviously your perspective is so different because you've been
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: involved in so many different events over a much longer
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: period of time. I mean, how do you see it?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: This upcoming event I think is very much in the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: in the vein of or in the inspired by the
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: alternative view conferences of Ian Creane used to run, which
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: we were huge supporters of for years, and Brian traditionally
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: at those events was you know, the opening speaker on
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: on the Saturday, on the Saturday morning. Yeah, the first
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: real proper presentation of the entire event was usually Brian,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and that became a sort of meme. But you know,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: the people I understand that you know, events like this
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: that are you know, effectually two and a half days
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: through whatever it is, are significantly expensive and for some
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: people too expensive. I mean, we decided that for the
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: twentieth anniversary event, we were going to make it a
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: full weekend event because we miss the the vibe and
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: the feeling that that the sort of the yeah, the
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: vibe is the best is the best word to use
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: for for the type of event that that Ian used
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: to run. Quite a number of people did ask us
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: to run a full weekend event because some of those
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: people attended av events back in the day. So you know,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: it's it's very much a different thing to a one
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: day event. People for a one day event, even if
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: they're staying the evening before the evening after, you know,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: the event begins on the in the morning, it ends
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: in the evening and that's it. They've got a day.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Whenever there's a whole weekend to to get to know
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: the other people that are at the event, it absolutely
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: changes the entire feeling. So so so we're really looking
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: forward to from that point of view. I think, just
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: to add to what Charles was saying, something that we
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: have missed from years and well from the pre COVID
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: days was the real face to face, physical intact with people,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: and and because you know, doing things on the live stream,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: it's not the same even though the chat box is there,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: you know, when you're presenting, and unless you're sitting and
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: just staring at what what people are posting in comments
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: in the chat box, it's still not that real connection.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: And so it has been good to get the live
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: events done. And I suppose in the same vein the
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: magazine is the same because we want to, we want to,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: you know, have a much more tactile relationship with people
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: than than than digital allis for so so I'm looking
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: forward to it from from that point of view. It
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: is has been a lot of work to put this on,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: and we will certainly do these types of events again
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: in the future if people want us to. So I
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: don't think I've got anything as to say but about
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: the event itself at this point. But it's to be.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: It's got to be a good crack and if anybody
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: can get it there, you can get to it. There
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: are a few tickets left, but they are going.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I open the conversation by saying that, you know, mainstream
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: media doesn't necessarily last twenty years. Of course, that is laughable,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I sort of. I'm referring to online because obviously physical
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: newspapers like The Guardian and observing whatever been around for
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: I think even centuries, not even decades, but we are.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm obviously talking about the digital space, which
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: is where we find ourselves in, which is interesting how
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: you have now just juxtaposed that with the magazine because
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: UK column is largely what ninety percent pretty much entirely
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: online now, isn't it. So having that physical aspect like
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: the magazine does bring in some real world connectivity.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: That's That's what I hope you know, Yes, real world
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: as a not not digital and something that you know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: it is by far much more pleasant to if you're
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: going to read something, to read it in a physical
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: form rather than try to read it off a screen.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: But do you think that, you know, do you think
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that's maybe not I mean, I'm just now putting a
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: span in the works, but is that not perhaps yearning
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: for nostalgia? I mean, is that do you think there
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: is still a need for that physicalness or is it
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: you know, we're just kind of hoping that things go
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: back to how they were, kind of kind of thinking
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I'm in favor of the magazine. I'm just wondering if
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: if it is what it's like, it's like vinyls, you know,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: it's a niche thing.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's interesting you mentioned that because in the
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: last decade or so, vinyl has absolutely had a comeback
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: because people like that and they messed that, and there's
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: something not there with digital. It's it's artificial in a
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: certain way. And so they absolutely love the just the
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: ritual of putting an LP on a turntable and putting
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: the needle on and listening to the music. There's something
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: much more engaging about that. And but but I mean
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: from the point from the comment on the magazine, I
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: think reading physical paper, first of all, it's not quite
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: so damaging on the eyes as reading off a screen.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: But it's it there's something real about it, relatively speaking,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: compared to to reading off the screen. I wouldn't I
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: would absolutely encourage people to be you know, get back
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: into the real world instead of this virtual nonsense that
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: we're bombarded with all the time. But you know, the
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: other thing to say German is there have been a
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: number of people in the last you know, a couple
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: of years, let's say, that have left our viewership because
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: they have given us feedback, like the UK column has changed.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: And I would say the common feature amongst the people
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: that have decided not to be with us anymore is
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: that they arrived with us in the COVID period and
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: then they thought that that's what the column was. But
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: you know, the fact is we do have twenty years
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: of history and what if anything has changed. We've gone
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: back to, in a certain sense, to the diversity of
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: content that we had for the first eighteen years or
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: whatever it was before. No, kind of in eighteen years,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: for the first six fourteen years the COVID thing happened. Yeah. Sorry,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: last time we were talking about this, I completely got
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: my numbers wrong as well. It's it is.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: I'll just text you Bess, Okay, I'll shut up now.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't ask at the beginning though, what to expect,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: and you kind of so convented that, Charles, is it
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: a secret? Can we discuss general what? No, no, it's
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: not name.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Themes but actually yeah, yeah, okay, but sorry, because I
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: think if that might just despite the ripping probably likely
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: on failure we've given on numbers, I think that it
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: was a really important point about the physical reading physical interaction,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: and I would I would be interested to understand what
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: it is. But the when you read something off a screen,
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: I think there are many elements of its that can
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: never compare with with reading from the magazine or book
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: in a hard form. One of those things is not known.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: And I might, as I said it, because it's not
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: as onny you just want to get to the end,
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: but it's not having any sense of how long what
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: you're reading is. In when you hold a book or
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: a magazine, you know, you know it's you can physically
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: feel or see, you conflictated visions, you can see how
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: long it is, you know how far, how far through
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: the article or the book or the chapter or whatever
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: that you are and and I think that that does
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: have some sort of a psychological effect on what it
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: is that you are reading, and I would say it
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: enhances what you're reading as compared with reading something digitally.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: And then there's the other issue of I mean, you know,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Mike obvious, you've already talked about it, but what you're
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: what you are looking at, and again something like that,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: just the quality of the screen that you're looking at
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: will make quite a difference as to quite simply how
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: how easy or difficult it is to read. And I
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: know that I might be wrong. Was it did Amazon
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: make that kindle thing? Was it? Was it? There? They
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: made it? So I have one. I have seen those,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: and I just really outstand how they work. Seem very
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: clever because they're not actually very long. It actually does
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: work quite nasty though. I mean it's certainly easy on
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: the eye, as Charles exactly. So that's so, that is
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: absolutely I would say, you know, if you are going
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: to have to read something that's not in paper form,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: then that is that looks to me much better. It
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: is cleverly done. As I don't uite understand how it
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: does work, but I'm sure there must be an effect
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: in relation to the way in which you actually take
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: something in through the eye. And I think that's I
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: think that is really important. And gosh exactly the same
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: with the with the in person bit. And I my perspective,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I think from the events that I've been involved in,
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: what I have really enjoyed because I have sort of
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: compared the days that we've run is being able to
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: see in between each talk the responses that people have
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: to particular speaker. And you get that from being able
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: to see everybody at the same time and it is
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: very very powerful. It's absolutely amazing. But no, in terms
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: of what we are putting on. First of all, yeah,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: you know it's going over three days, so Friday, Friday afternoon,
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: Saturday and Sunday. And I think that gives that just
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: gives such a good opportunity for people not just to
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: be seeing a really good array of speakers talking about
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: a load of different things, many which do pertain to
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: what UK column has been about for the last twenty years,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: but to be able to have those times in between,
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: not just breaks during the day. But but you know,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: we're making sure to give a decent length of time
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: to a proper sit down dinner on the Friday night
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: and again on the Saturday night and then to break up. Well,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: you know, the format of our events to date has
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: been quite formal in a sense, and that a speaker
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: will get up and talk and this time they'll be
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: you know, they'll be the incorporation of music. We've got.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: We'd really please to have Mark Devlin coming and he's
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: going to be using music to to sort of augment
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: what he's going to be talking about. Jonathan Marshall, who
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: people have become very familiar with who works with horses
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: and falcons. Sad because it's indoors, we won't build to
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: bring horses, but who have great sort of visual displays
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: of the horses that he works with and will be
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: flying his falcons. And also we're going to have some
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: music from him as well, and I think that's you
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: know that that is just a fantastic extra dimension. And
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: then we've also got Jake Fern who's going to be
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: able to do just give a little bit of an
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: insight into how he starts to create a piece of
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: his artwork. I mean, I think specifically a portrait. We'll
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: actually get to nail down exactly what he will be creating,
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: but just to give the audience that sense of what
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: that's about. And I think these things are so easily forgotten,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: the fact that you know, I know we've talked about
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: this a lot, but how significant and important creation is
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: the fact that people are physically creating that effect. And
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: then that's the other thing with you know, we've just
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: been talking about reading something off a digital screen, so
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: much now that is created is it's a synthetic in effect,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: it's a digital creation, doesn't it sort of almost like
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: it doesn't really exist, and I think to go back
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: to really celebrating what does exist in the company of
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: other people, it's just a massive three. And then the
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: other thing that we mustn't overlook is the significance of
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: holding the event in Plymouth. I'd to say I'd not
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: been to Plymouth prior to becoming involved with UK Colon,
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: but it is an amazing place, and the views from
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: over Plymouth sound from the hoe, which is where we
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: will be just sort of off the hoe. I mean,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: it is completely spectacular and okay, you could say a
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: shadow of its former self or form of glory in
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: many respects, but I mean namely a place that in
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: a way isn't but it's still it. Just the sheer
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: natural splendor of that bit of coast is just fantastic.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: And so to be able to go out in between
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: times and just be in that environment is again massively beneficial,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: because I think it's very easy to just think about
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: the where you are in the immediate instance of the
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: event itself, you know, the confines of the space, and
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: not really considered beyond that, but they have both bits
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: of all the people, and then to be able to
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: go out and and see you know, smet and style
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: of course in the backdrop of all the news programs,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: and that that incredible view. I think that that is
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: another dimension. I'm obviously hoping that everybody is going to
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: be charging into the sea at least one today for
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: a good swim half a mile at least. But we'll
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: see how we go.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: So I didn't know where Plymouth, I mean, I don't
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: know anything about UK geography side to look it up,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and so it's it's at the south south west of
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: the UK, and that that particular part of the UK,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I think correctly if I'm wrong, has something to do
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: with the Mayflower.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: The now the steps are still the steps are still there, germ.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: If you want to go and see the steps that
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: they walk down to get onto the Mayflower, they're still there.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Which I believe that went all the way to the US.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know that. I don't know that the that
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: was the pilgrim fathers, you know.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, so okay, So there is some significance to the
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: little town of Plymouth, isn't he.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: It has it?
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Has it has in history that's special. Is it a
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: city not a town?
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a city. Okay, all right, with a lot
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: of history, but I will defer to Mike for well, I.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Mean, I don't know all the history at all, but
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: but you know it is it was one of the
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: major uh, Royal Navy ports for centuries and I don't know,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know it's older history.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: But you know, Plymouth is beautiful. Well, uh, parts of
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: it are beautiful.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Parts of it are run down. Parts of it were
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: knocked on by the Council after the Second World War.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: In fact, Brian one of the stories that Brian tells
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: is that the Council did more damage than Hitler did.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: And and so you know, there are parts of it
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: that are absolutely spectacular and other parts not so much.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: It it used to be a major shipbuilding city and
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: a major heavy engineering city, but that's mostly gone as
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: most heavy engineering has gone everywhere and you know, under
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: under At other times you would perhaps be a bit
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: more positive about the fact that it's a major sort
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: of defense related place, but of course, at the moment,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: with bad intentions of the leadership of this country, maybe
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: not so much. So you know, there's it's a lot
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: going for it, but you know, it is on the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: edge of of on the border between Devon and Co War. Also,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: you've got Darkmoor to the north, and you've got the
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: hol of corn Wall to the west, and you've got
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Dartmouth and Torqui and so on, the so called English
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Riviera to the to the east. So there's a ton
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: of stuff to do and a ton of reasons to
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: come here, aside from anything that the UK Colin might
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: be doing.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: And there will be people coming there from all over
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: to the event.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Are there some people coming internationally as well, so you
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: know it's it's going to be a fun event, There's
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: no question about that. But I mean, Charles didn't go
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: through all the speakers I.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Noticed, Okay, I think that was actually not directed at me,
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: But yes, I did not go through all the speakers.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: But there will be I mean, there'll be some of
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: the UK colden Stalarts course, Mike will be speaking, Brian
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: will be speaking, Patrick Henningson, We've got Alex Thompson coming over,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: and I mean, you know it's there will be incredible
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: sort of strength, breadth and depth. But then also we
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: are very pleased that we've got Kate Markland, who has
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: an incredible story to tell and has been interviewed by
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: Brian relatively recently, and also Lucy Morgan Edwards, who were
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: very excited to be having as a speaker and also
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: as a contributor to the forthcoming issue of the column
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: as well. So we've got a real good mixture of
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: a very very intelligent and articulate voices who I think
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: will bring just a great sense of occasion to an
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: event that is really special, the twenty years being in
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Plymouth being being all together and for that period of time,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: and exactly as my point pointed out earlier, from you know,
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: if it's felt that there's been a good thing to
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: have done, and we absolutely will think about more weekend
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: you know, sort of full weekend events because I think
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: that's ptibly because people's behavior was changed in twenty twenty
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: and thereafter, a lot of things haven't really restarted, you know,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Are people sort of ready and willing to get back
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: to where we were? I really hope so. But it
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: has to I suppose I don't know where the surprise
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: is the right word, but I mean an awful lot
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: of things absolutely just died to death in twenty twenty
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: and have never have never really been resurrected, and that
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: is that is especially when it concerns an in person
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: event gathering, whatever you call it, I think that's a
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: huge tragedy. And I and also I can't substantiate this,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: but I do rather feel that people are actively missing
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: all of that but just lack the impetus to get
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: it going because the everything was sort of ripped away.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: So I would hope that again, this is for people
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: who are motivated to do those sort of things. This
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: is a marker and something they can draw inspiration from.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: But I think we definitely will for future events.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's a beautiful irony in the fact that
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: there is now a UK column magazine, because when you
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: said twenty twenty, I mean a lot of the world
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: changed in twenty twenty, and part of that is the
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: World Economic Forums ambition to basically remove any use of paper.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Everything must become digital and an app and whatever, right,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and UK column is about the antidote to mainstream propaganda,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: and one of those is that running out of paper.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: We must save the environment. I mean, yeah, there's pollution,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: but a magazine is not going to destroy earth. And
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: in actual fact, there is always and has always been
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: a desire to hold something physical in your hand that
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: you could turn the page and just in and you
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: can keep it, you can leave it on the coffee
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: table and you can come back to it later. There
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: is something special about that and and it's not what
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: you know, class schwab and and the u in you know,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: want us to do. And so I think it's a
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: great also, it's a great middle finger to that kind
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: of narrative.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I think when we're being told that
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: the only way to live is their way, then we
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: should be doing the other thing. And so, you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: real physical events is one way to be not conforming
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: with what is desired. You see. The thing though is,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: you know, they do suggest that that people should be
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: living more digital lives, but they're not. They're not stopping
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: their physical events. They clearly feel that that if they
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: want to organize that they need to get together in
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: a physical place, and they clearly still enjoy their their
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: How do we describe them? How do we describe Davos?
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I mean it is.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: It's a globalist retreat.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure that's quite strong enough, but.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: I think it's more seen anyway.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: We're not attempting to replicate that as such, but you know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: you know, the physical contact is something that people missed
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: since twenty twenty, and I think it's something that we
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: should all be viewing as an act of resistance everything.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Also, sorry, just very quickly, because we must not forget
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: the absolutely absurd lengths and desperate measures that were reached
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: in terms of pushing this. I mean, physical objects paper
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: were said to be dangerous. I mean that when that
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: far so as well as the oh yeah, well you
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: know your carbon footprint and this, that and the other,
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: and it's so much more efficient to do digital, it
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: was then no, we can't do cash because you might
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: die if you touch that pound note. You might die.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Even even sending stuff to a laboratory to prove that
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: the virus was still there after seventy two hours on
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: a you know, and there was I mean, I might
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: be making some of this up, but so what on
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: you know, there were sort of things in the newspaper.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Things would be scored according to what they were made of,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: like how long the thing would would last on any
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: particular item. I mean, I can even think of people
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: who told me that they had sprayed any post that
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: came through the door, they had sprayed it with some
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: sort of disinfectant and The other classic was was churches trying,
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: trying so desperately to forbid their reckless congregations from going
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: anywhere near the place. There was this obsession with removing
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: hymn books and prayer books from the churches. And I
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: and I actually had a conversation with somebody in what
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: was then my church which ran along the lines of
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: going just running through the logic a small rural church
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: seldom visited even when there is a service. And you say, so, so,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: hang on, are you saying that you think someone's going
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: to come into the church, pick up a hymn book,
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: probably lick it, put it back, and that the next
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: person that comes in will go for exactly that same
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: hymn book and again probably lick it. And that the
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: intervening time, according to you know, the daily mail, will
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: not have exceeded the how long the virus can last
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: on a hymn book. And it's only when you really
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: put I mean it was. It was obviously an utterly
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: absurd conversation, but but but it was necessary because it
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: had to be pushed to the point that there was
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: no longer any way in which that could hold water.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: And of course the result was it was a bit
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: of an explosion, and you know, let's we wait, we
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: won't hide the hymn books away. But but it the
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: the sort of the veil of a fear that was
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: thrown over people was just so heavy that that things
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: like that couldn't be seen. And now look where we are,
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: the idea of a cashless society doesn't seem so ridiculous,
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: because still lurking at the back of some people's minds
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: will be the idea that well, I mean, I know
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: we've stopped talking about it, but there was that time
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: when cash was really dangerous and it may you know,
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: it could be really dangerous again, so perhaps we do
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: just get rid of it.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Actually it was worse. It was worse here. It wasn't
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: just kesh that was dangerous. We know, I'm not you
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: can look it up. We weren't allowed we weren't allowed
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: to buy cooked chicken and by extension, cooked food because
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: it had something to do with the heat of the
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: warm food that would I don't know, I don't know
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: what the what the mainstream theory was, but the virus
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: would prefer warm food. We weren't we were listening to this.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: We were banned from buying opened what do you call it,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: like open shoes like sandals or whatever, right shoes in
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: the so in other words, in the shops they had
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: these big sort of what do you call those, those
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: those tape crosses that they put over the over the
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: should yeah, yeah, over open shoes. I went to go
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: buy a pie, I think it was like in twenty
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: twenty or something, right chuck a chicken buy and they said, sorry,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: we aren't allowed to sell anything hot. You have to
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: go to the sandwich section to get something cold. We
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: weren't allowed to buy tools from the hardware stoor, like
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: a drill. They had some some story around it. I
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: promise you this is this is what happened. Yeah, and
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: people have forgotten as if this as if it didn't even.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: People haven't forgotten. People have intentionally expunged it from their memories.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: It's not something that happened just in the course of time.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: People do not want to to think about what happened
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: in that time, and they don't really want to believe,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: you know that their politicians are quite as aggressive as
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: they were.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: What I wanted to say earlier, though, Charles, is I
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: wanted to feed into what you're saying that the importance
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: of an event like the UK Condum event is the
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: fact that if you think back to twenty twenty, they
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: were trying to tell us to be fearful of healthy people.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: They didn't want us to engage with people. They wanted
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: us locked in our homes and we must stand even
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: stand far away from people. So an event like this
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: would have either been completely frowned upon or just not
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: even allowed. And the physical interaction of people also breaks
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: down that ridiculously sociopathic psychology that has become part of society,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I think because of social media, because of the fact
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: that people are saying things that they would never say
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: in person to one another. And the longer we stay
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: away from physical interaction, I think, the more dangerous it becomes.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, for my part, I absolutely could not
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: agree more and specifically with what you say about the
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: you know, you simply wouldn't say that to my face thing.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: And it's not so much in fact, not necessarily just
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: the to somebody else or about somebody else, But I
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: think just the tossing of stuff foud into the ether
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: with no real consideration for what it is you're saying
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: or what effect you're trying to create, and again the
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: whole thing has been further skewed, if that's the right word,
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: by the social particular social media platforms that any of
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: this stuff's happening on, because of course, content can be
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: either amplified or suppressed.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: So.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: It's sort of both ways. What people are putting out
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: has become in many respects, just completely ridiculous. But then
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: so has what people people are receiving, because it's that
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: they have the ability to be able to tailor what
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: it is that you see. So people's picture of the
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: world has if that is what they are looking at,
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: which unfortunately barn Large people are, the people's picture of
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: the world has been completely distorted in a very very
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: short period of time. Okay, you might say that's always
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: been the case because barn Ledge people have got their
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: news from some of the newspapers that you mentioned earlier
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: on have been around for many years, or from mainstream
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: television channels or whatever it is. But the point is
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: somebody has always had control over the news. But I
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: think the I think that that is nothing as compared
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: with what's happened on the social media platforms in the
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: art well particular in the last six years.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Something, as you said earlier, Mike, is that some of
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: the audience have left thinking that, you know, the COVID
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: era was what UK column was all about, and kind
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: of ignoring its entire history. But something like COVID will
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: likely happen again in a different form, and we know
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: that these things are like climate lockdowns for example, and
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: and all the digital idea stuff that Catherine Fitz talks about,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: and these are all the things that are just iterations
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: of the COVID era. People mustn't fall into the trap
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: of thinking that happened and that's that, and our life continues.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: It's absolutely not the case that life just continues, which
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: is why I sometimes get a little bit despondent when
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I hear about, you know, people no longer supporting uk
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: conon because Yukkonum will continue to do the work in
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: the pre twenty twenty and during twenty twenty if that
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: makes sense.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I understand it to some degree, because
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: you know, people people can you know, some people came
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: for that topic and that topic only, and that topic,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: that particular topic is no longer perceived as being a threat,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: and so they drift away. That's absolutely normal. I think
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: and not anything to be surprised about. I think that
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I think you're right. What was done at that time
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: will be done again at some point, and probably not
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: in the in the in too great a future, because
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: you know, as we've been talking about over the last
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: few weeks, the the state, at least the British State
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: and certainly other countries as well, is with that question
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: preparing for something. Now I'm starting to starting to hear
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: more and more people considering the possibility that there's going
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: to be some kind of nine to eleven style event
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: in the not too distant future. And it's not going
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: to be the same, obviously, but but something of a
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: similar scale is what I'm talking about. And you know
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: what came out of that. In fact, one of the
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: articles in the next edition of the magazine is is
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: about this exactly what came out of nine to eleven
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: and and Patriot Act and then the the totally the
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Information Awareness Office of Joint John Poindexter that sort of
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: they overstepped with their marketing on that particular exercise and
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: so that was shut down, but it didn't disappear because
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: it just continued. And then the programs that continued following
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: that were exposed by Edward Snowden, and then we're up
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: to you know, as we see a continuous progression of
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: this surveillance agenda since that point. So the emergency event
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: itself was nine to eleven. Nine to eleven came and went,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: and there were a couple of wars started around the
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: place on the basis of it. But in the meantime,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: one particular agenda, which was a surveillance agenda that got
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: an initial boost from the nine to eleven event itself,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: but that has progressed steadily over the last twenty five
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: years and hasn't gone away. And it's the same with COVID.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: The precedents that were set during COVID, where they were
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: able to require lockdowns and so on, that precedent is
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: now set. And the next emergency situation that comes along,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: whether that be some kind of war related event or
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: another so called pandemic or whatever it happened, doesn't really
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: matter what the trigger is for it. The the the
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: precedents are there now and so that that is coming.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: And as I say, when we look at the way
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: that the docs are being lined up for some kind
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: of requirement for civil contingencies, emergency legislation. It's pretty clear
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: that something is being planned, and of course can't say when,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: but I don't think it's going to be too far
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: in the future.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: But the point that you're making is that being complacent
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: is a bad idea. I mean, that's that's a very.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Bad it's a very bad idea. And if there's one,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: if there's one running theme through the last twenty years
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: of the UK column, it is that if people had
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: acted on the information that was provided at the time,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: we wouldn't be in the position we're in at the moment.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: But we're back, you know, we every every every week
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: almost we're in that position, right some some some piece
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: of news news comes out and it's people's reaction is,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: oh my goodness. But then there's no action taken. There's
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: a reaction, emotional reaction, but no actual action taken to
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: try to yeah, uh, divert the direction of travel and
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: and that, you know, direction of travel is something that
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I keep banging on about and and because it's important
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: if we if we recognize the direction we're heading, you know,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I would argue that it's practically if if you're if
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: you're standing in the middle of the road and there's
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: a juggernaut coming at you. You're not going to be
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: able to put your hands up and stop it. But
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: the question is whether there's any action you can take
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: that can just shift it off course a little bit
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: so that it doesn't hit you. Well, that might be,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: that might be, that might be better than doing nothing.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: I sometimes feel like I'm a banshee because I'm constantly
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: moaning about how people are not taking action right. I'm
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: always talking about the importance of solutions, and I'm often moan,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: as you know, about people simply not consuming solutions oriented
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: content and then doing something with that information. It's almost
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: as though it's it's just easier to have a look
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: at the drive by shooting or the accident on the
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: side of the road and go oh, okay, that looks
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: terrible and then just keep going rather than actually doing
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: something with that information. I'm a big fan of trying
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: to do something with information, and you know, in the
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: ways that I can personally improve my life based on that.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I'll give you example. I was over the weekend a
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: bunch of us got together Farmer Angus and Nick Kutson.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: For example. We were all together and Nick is now
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: actively not bringing his cell phone with him to any
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: kind of gathering. He left it, I think in the
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: car or even at home. He didn't even have it
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: with him, which is which is a great thing. It's
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a personal it's a personal solution because he said, you know,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: my little beep or I'll get notification or I want
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: to have a quick look on Twitter or whatever. No,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: no longer. Now you're forced to engage with those around you,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: and that little personal maneuver I think is a great
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: tactic to solve personal conflicts with the things that we
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: talk about. I know, for you, Chiles, is probably much easier,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: but you know, for others, these are struggles, you know, disconnecting.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm constantly wide in my mind, like I'm
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: always thinking about everything and ways to reduce that back.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: What Nick does, I think is a great idea, And
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: it sounds so stupid because it's so obvious. But the
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: irony is that it's not obvious. If that makes sense, Yeah.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: That makes perfect sense. I think that that's the thing.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's great. It's lovely to hear
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: that people have struck upon that, usually because they've thought
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: of it themselves. They realized that this wretched device is
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: beginning to control your life, or at least knock it
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: quite seriously off course. But the trouble is that so
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: many people don't ever get to the point of realizing that,
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: and then we end up in the very dangerous territory
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: of pointing it out to somebody and experiencing the backfire
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: effect and all that goes with it, and so therefore
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: the situation doesn't really change. But no, I mean, well,
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: I'm applaud Nick for doing that. I became very aware
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: of it, I don't know, six or seven years ago
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: whilst in a building project, because there are a couple
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: of I mean probably more than a couple, but kind
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: of a lot of places in the United Kingdom where
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: it's very easy to order stuff online for a next
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: day delivery, and there's just nothing more knowing you're building
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: something you just you know, the particular type of screw
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: nail or whatever it is, fid little thing that you
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: that you need, you just run out of. And what
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: I found was a pattern was picking up a telephone
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: and thinking, well, just I'll do it right away, I'll
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: order it right now, thinking you're being so organized, only
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: to find that twenty five minutes later you're still messing
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: around on the thing, and you'd actually forgotten what it
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: was that you picked it up for, because the moment
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: you open the screen, about twenty five things jump in
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: your face and that's what you start looking at rather
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: than the one thing that you're meant to do. And
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: so as a very deliberate reaction against that sort of thing,
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: I made conceptort to stop but basically sort of stop
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: using it. And absolutely I would certainly take a ton
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: of onionywhere that I absolutely didn't have to. But yes,
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, one can only hope that people do realize it.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, ironically, all this nonsense about the banning of
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: social media for sixteen year old for people under sixteen
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: and that kind of thing, I think that at least
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: has allowed to kind of lead in it conversationally to
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: this topic, because of course it's nothing to do with children,
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: and it's nothing to do with social media platforms. It's
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: all to do with other things, mostly related to data
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: and digital identity. But at least it provides a way
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: to be able to talk about it. It's because everybody
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: really at some level is concerned with what happens to
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: young people, what they're exposed to and what expectations are
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: for their lives as compared with ours. And the easiest
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: possible one, is it anyone of our age group or
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: above never experienced any of this stuff as a child,
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: and therefore, you know, if we all survived well, the
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: reason that younger people should be able to as well.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: But I think, as I say, the main point is
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: that people have to come to this realization on their own. Now,
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: whether we can help with that, I don't know.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Well know, one of the things jerm that we insisted
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: as our kids were growing up, the adults now, but
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: two things. We insisted that we have an evening meal
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: together as a family on most days. Obviously we weren't
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: never going to stop them doing some kind of social
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: event or whatever. But but we all got together in
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: the evening and there were no phones at the table
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: and no phones in the room. In fact, actually my
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: kids didn't have what about phones. I didn't insist on this.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: This was their decision until they were seventeen or something
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: like that, or eighteen, I can't remember what age they
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: got them at. They weren't interested. But but you know,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: even those were two things that I thought we thought
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: were important. And no distractions. So we actually had conversations
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: at the dinner table, which I'm not sure how many
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: people do that anymore, that that in itself is is resisting.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: What's funny you say that because some of the conversations
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: that we have are about UK column. Just so, did
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: you see that that story? So UK column acts as
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: the instigator of the conversation, which is great.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: So, by the way, times long as long as it
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: doesn't take over.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Of course, by the way, when I said that farm
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Angus and Nick and I were together the weekend, Charles,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: take a look at this. I hope this picture will
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: show on the screen. I just want to quickly show
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: you if I can just get it to there. It
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: is there.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: It is so correct for me.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Hang on, repress it again there It is okay that
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: those are burger patchies that Anger made specifically for our
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: social on Saturday. Look at those patties. All of that
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: white there, it's fat that he put into the patties.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: And he used his own beef, so that is regenerative,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: grass fed, free range beef with inserted fat, and then
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: he put a crust of pepper around the outside. Probably
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: the best burgers I've ever had I'm trying to just
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: to make you jealous.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they did it very good, I must say, well done,
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: then well done you.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: And of course Angus doesn't he doesn't pretty much carry
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: a phone with him either. But he's a farmer, so
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: that's different. He's very very connected. He's very connected to
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: the soil. And that's what I mean.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but I mean that's that that makes him
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: extremely unusual me in the United Kingdom. It's okay, I
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: mean again for the boidance of directa I am of
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: course speaking generally, but in actual fact, the way that
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: farming technology has gone now, farmers are not really connected
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: to the soil. Their machinery might be in some way,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: but even their machinery, you know, with air conditioned cabs
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: for tractors and and sort of you know, radios blaring
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: and whatnot. And the fact that a lot of what's
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: conducted now is done by contractors who aren't necessarily anything
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: to do with the land that they're working on. It's
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: a totally totally different setup. And and it's all it's
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: all or not, it is all. So much of it,
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: of course is run semi remotely because you've got you
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: have I mean, the automation of being able to deliver
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: specific inputs into the ground according to surveys conducted by
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: satellites and that kind of thing. So it's you know,
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: the mobile telephone and all the tech goes with it
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: is in fact quite fundamental part of farming for a
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: lot of people, which seems completely wrong to me.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: But I mean, look, at the risk of sounding like
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: a fuddy daddy, we also are progressing. And one of
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: the things that I sometimes wonder out loud is whether
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: or not we are being laddites if we're deliberately trying
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: to resist what is obviously progress in some in some instances,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: not everything's progress, I'll admit.
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, are you saying that with the inference
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: that the Laodites were wrong?
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: No, obviously not. But what I mean is if you can,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: if you can, for example, if you can give.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: I'm not I don't mean to trick you up, sorry
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: to no, no, no, no, but.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Wrong.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think that's what it is, and I
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: think I think also I I am I loathe the
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: word progress because I feel my this, but but but
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: I I feel it is you know, it is misused,
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: completely misused already, the connotations that we're supposed to have
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: is that it is change that is good and and
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: that those two things just go to get I mean,
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: look at what we've just been talking about with with
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: you know, the replacement for cash or the replacement for books.
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, they are not good. They are they are
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: described as being progress, but they are not good. I think, no, no,
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: what I mean what I mean?
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let me sorry, let me jump in so obviously,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: so I'm I'm going agreement with you. I think that
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: progress is largely a myth. I don't. I think everything
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: changes and you'd stay is the same, but there are
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: ways to improve things like building a house on a hill.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: To use spades is very slow and tedious, when if
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: you can use a bulldozer you can obviously gets through
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: that that he'll a lot quicker and more more effectively
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: in that. In that respect, obviously progress is a good thing. No,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: unless you want to speak a longer no.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: Because well no, no, because and this is where this
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: is where one does have to be obstinate and banandic
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: with this. Just think of the the advent of let's say,
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: the bulldozer, because straight away what you're doing is you
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: are absolutely fundamentally changing an economy of all the people,
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: all the men that were involved with road building suddenly
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: either lose their jobs or they get pushed into doing
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: something different, or you know, so that the level of
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: change that is represented by any of these technological advancements
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: is is enormous. And just because we live in a
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: period of time where we aren't really seeing the effect
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: of that, because you know, to an extent it's all happened,
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: means that we can't fully appreciate it. So I'm not
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that if I were to do such
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: a thing that as a point of principle, I would
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: try and drum up a team of fifty laborers and
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: do it by hand, just because it means not using
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: a bulldozer. That's not what I mean, because I accept
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: absolutely that we are where we are, and yes, therefore
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: you want to do something in the most effective and
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: efficient way. But the point is that every single one
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: of those developments has at a time had those that
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: moment right. Well, yes, we could use the different thing,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: the new thing, but what is the effect of doing
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: that going to be? And this is the thing that
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: I think is so often not considered, certainly not looking forward,
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: but I mean even in hindsight, we tend not to
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: think about the terrific ramifications of any of these changes.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: And the thing is that you can do it, and
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: you can still get to a point that is generally good.
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: But it requires thought, it requires consideration, it requires a
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: different plan, and that is what is so often lacking.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: I think it's a really common feature of the modern
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: age that these absolutely seismic differences or introduct of new technologies,
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: and I mean technology in the broadest terms, there is
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: no consideration given to the effect that that will have,
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: and therefore there's no planning around it either. And that is,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: you know, you have to think, well, if it happens
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: time and time and time again, it is deliberate, it
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: is deliberately disruptive, and that is that is therefore not
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: a good thing. So no, I don't take it as
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: read that just because something is in a way the
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: most straightforward and the most effective way, that it is
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: necessarily the best way of doing it. It's totally sort
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: of case by case.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: I think there is consideration given as just the wrong consideration. Well,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: I think I think you know, every progress, every step
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: along the way, has been about removing expensive human liver
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: and replacing it with cheap mechanical or electronic or whatever
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: it happens to be. And now we're getting to the
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: point of replacing all human liver with robotics and artificial intelligence.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: And so what is the future of humanity under those circumstances.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: If if there had been any evidence historically of the
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: removal of people from manual labor jobs, and that all
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: those people turned into you know, some kind of productive
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: how to put this, If they were they suddenly went
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: into you know, cerebral disciplines instead, and they were contributing
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: to the future knowledge of humanity or to music or
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: art or something like that. Then perhaps, But most people,
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: most people, when they are made redundant by the technology,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: end up doing things well in the modern sense, like
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: sitting in front of the sofa and watching Netflix. They
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: don't find some other way to to contribute. And and
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: so I'm afraid I to some degree agree with what
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Charles just said. And I don't think progress is progress.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: It's progress for for some who want to maximize profits
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: in a corporate sense, and that's that's the consideration that's given.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: And and you know, I suppose this is what Charles
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: meant there's zero consideration given to what the people that
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: are made redundant are actually going to do. They're you know,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: and and it's really up to them. And the obvious
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: thing for them to do is to find some form
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: of entertainment to pass the time.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: It's I mean, sorry, gone, sorry.
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: Just the other element of it, which I think is
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: extremely important, is that in introducing a you know, a
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: new system certain to invent something. Of course, what they
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: get with that is control, control, because they then have
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: the monopoly on how it is that you do such
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: and such a thing. So if you are the bok
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: that builds or owns the bulldozer company, effectively have control
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: over that. And therefore what's been lost is the skills
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: and the knowledge and the experience of all those people
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: that were previously involved in doing that. So you've taken
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: away the sovereignty, let's say, for one of a better word,
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: of a large chunk of society. They may no longer
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: be able to do that themselves, and it'll only take
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: a generation before nobody knows how to do it anymore.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: And so in order to do it, there is only
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: one way, and that is not when I say it's
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: not your way. It's not your way because you're not
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: a control of you. You haven't built the bulldoys yourself.
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: You've got to go to CERN so so and either
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: buy it or hire it or whatever. Okay, mostly that
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: is achievable now, but not necessarily. I mean, look at
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: some pieces of modern agricultural machinery are phenomenally expensive in
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: a way that makes certain activities either prohibitive or that
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: in order to do it, you've got to enter into
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: some sort of finance scheme that means that you're going
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: to be conditioned to do it in a particular way.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah ad infinite and those are the
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: sort of things as well. So that's this is my
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: problem with it is it is it's the loss of control,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: the loss of freedom in a sense, because you can
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: no longer as a small society. You can't do sorts
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: of things that people absolutely were able to do in
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: the past.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: And not just that.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: As you know, over the past few months, the den
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: bulldozers here keep breaking my fiber. Well yeah, all right,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: I'm quickly coming for a lending. I'm looking at the time,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: so I wanted to chat about you get column event
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: it is on the weekend of the seventeenth of September.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: That right, No, its eighteenth eighteenth one, So seventeenth eighteenth
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: to Sunday the twentieth. Yeah, oh is the is Friday
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: the eighteenth? Okay a big your one.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, so yes, no, I mean
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: we are we are really looking forward to seeing those
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: of you that have got your tickets, and we are
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: really hoping that those of you who haven't but are
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: about to get your ticket will find that there is
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: one left for you because it's going it is absolutly
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: going to be sensational. And I think that you know exactly,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: these sorts of things are such great talking points, you know,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: sort of in person events, and that that's just yeah,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: there was a huge amount of joy coming down the track,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: so please do be there.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Mike, thank you Charles
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: H.