Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Financial wellbeing planner and avid gamer – Kris Mason

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Financial wellbeing planner and avid gamer – Kris Mason · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Chris Mason.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Chris is a financial advisor for Bentley and Brown.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Chris calls himself a financial well-being planner.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I dig a little deeper as to why he's chosen that title and why he feels that financial planning is a well-being proposition.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Chris also shares with us today his career journey into the financial planning profession, how he heard about the role, and why he wished he heard about it sooner, and his preconceptions about the potential cost involved of becoming a financial planner.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Spoiler alert, it's not as high as he thought.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about men's mental health and men's mental fitness.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Chris shares a point in his career where he really did struggle with his mental health and what he did to overcome that.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about the importance of as men sharing how we feel to overcome mental health problems.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: We also uh talk about Chris's passion for gaming.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: We sort of just have an open discussion really about how he could uh position himself further on down the line in his career as the financial planner to the gaming community.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if there is anybody out there doing that already.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Why not become a key person of influence within a specific niche?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fantastic episode, and we also talk about uh salaries, uh a discussion which really doesn't ever get spoken about quite deeply on the podcast.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: But we talk about salaries and we talk about how Chris actually negotiated his own salary in his own remuneration package when he became a financial planner, which I think was excellent.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So great podcast, great guy.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy it.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, thanks for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, how old uh how old are you?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: How are you today?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm good.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 32, but yeah, no, I'm good.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good today.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: So a little bit warm, that's why I'm in a t-shirt just to keep cool more than anything else.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: But uh no, it's uh a decent day so far.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just broke the first rule of recruitment.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: You should never ask somebody how old they are.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's like one of the unwritten rules when you interview somebody, is like you're not allowed to ask how old they are, although we always want to know.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, actually, yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: But then you always have to give a date of birth, so you can always work it out anyway.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very backward way of looking at things, but the thing is it's all about it's all about sort of um diversity and inclusivity.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're not allowed, you're not allowed to ask what somebody's age is at an application stage, for example.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because it might put it might put you off if they're a little bit older or a little bit younger.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I to be honest, I agree with that because I know for a fact, I mean, there's plenty of uh I imagine plenty of people have experienced there's all that that that thing that especially younger people face, which is you apply for a job and it's just like, have you had five years experience?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, well, how do I get the experience when I can't get the job to get the experience?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and those kind of elements are well versed in that for definite.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And financial planning is one of those professions where there is a bit of anxiety brought on by that sort of imposter syndrome where people think their age makes a difference to them being able to deliver financial planning.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: For example, for instance, if you're a financial planner, you know, oh, I haven't got enough grey hair in my head, therefore I'm not experienced enough to be able to manage somebody's pensions or give them advice on their investments or their future, because um I haven't got the lived experience.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we hear this quite a lot.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think that's an element of what sometimes puts people off getting into the financial planning profession.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you think about a financial planner, as you said, you're sat there in your t-shirt right now, but a financial planner is what the average age is within the UK, a male 55 years old, you know.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: That that's the idea that we have this kind of older person who's wise and got experience and wears a suit, and you know, that's a financial advisor, not somebody in their twenties.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what do you think about that?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's difficult.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think from there's definitely both sides to the argument when it comes to experience, but for me, on a personal level, um, I see experience as um an exponential chart.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So like the the first six months of a year, there's there's a lot of learning, and a young person's gonna be very much behind someone who's been in the industry five, 10, 15, 20 years.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: But by the time you get to the second, third year, the chart's like it's gone up like this.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the difference between year two to year 25 is such a such a small percentage.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think someone who comes in and pragmatic sake, they're 25, 26, they're do admin positions, do paragraph positions, whatever, and they've done that for two years.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say they're at a point where they're well-versed enough to begin a journey and start.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they shouldn't feel like, right, well, I'm, you know, batting with the big kids uh who've been doing this for 25 years, because I think the difference, the tangible difference as well, is so small.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, someone might be able to say, Oh, well, I would have done this, or did you know this?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that's so few and far between for what we or at least what I've experienced on a day-to-day basis, which you know, you're dealing with people who don't have heaps of money.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know we see all the adverts on LinkedIn and everywhere else, where it's like, oh, what would you do with this client?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: They've got millions and millions of pounds.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, I don't know, I work with clients who've got 100,000 pounds or 50,000 pounds.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very, and I think a lot of people work in that space, um, maybe more than they'd like to admit.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think for a lot of people, especially at the younger end of the spectrum, like it is difficult.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's the preconceived notions that the the country in general is kind of embedded on people.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just in our industry, it's in pretty much every industry going that with age comes wisdom and with age comes, you know, experience in the night to do the job better.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you and I both know as well.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Other people will know.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's people in positions who have been there for 10, 20, 30 years who have just meandered the way up the natural progression, which doesn't mean they're the best for the job or the most capable, although they've got 30 years' experience.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, yeah, but does that really mean everything?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really agree.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think there has to be a balance on both sides of the coin.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting what you said there as well about the perception of a client who would use a financial planner might well be, you know, if I didn't have any experience of financial planning as a career, then I might think, well, it's wealthy people that need financial planning advice.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's people with millions of pounds.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Where actually the problem that we're seeing with this advice gap and the way the banks have no longer have financial advisors, which, you know, pre-RDR, I'm not going to get into RDR right now, but way more financial advisors that were linked to the banks.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the average Joe that had a specific sum of money, perhaps from an inheritance or, you know, had a nice big bonus or whatever it might well be, could walk into a bank, sit down with a financial advisor, bank assurance, and get financial advice.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And due to RDR and the uh the removal of uh of commissions, etc., the banks had to change their model of financial advice and the accessibility for financial advice is no longer there.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: However, there is this huge advice gap.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many people out there and you know looking um who have a need for financial advice but just can't seem to access it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not the people that have got the millions and millions.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: They've always really had access to financial planning.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's always been there for them because they're always swimming around in that kind of um environment, if you like, with accountants or perhaps solicitors or um around other people that have wealth.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's the people that have some money, and we're not we're not talking like small amounts of money.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned they're like, you know, I deal with people with 100,000.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: 100,000 pounds to me is a lot of money.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I would be anxious about what to do with that money.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where the advice profession is lacking financial advisors to give those individuals the financial advice that they actually need.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a down need for it, isn't there, out there?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think for again, like from a personal point of view, because I I guess it's a little bit at odds with the way the industry is in general, is the people who probably need the most advice are the people who have nothing because they've got zero.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So they need to build up from zero to get to a point where they have security in some way, shape, or form.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I'm work again, I work with people who, you know, again, the spectrum ranges from from zero to like the hundred, maybe the 150 mark.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of about it, and obviously preparing people for retirement and all those aspects that come with it.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: To those people, it is a lot of money.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's money they've saved for a very, very long time.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, in the grand scheme of things, it's uh drop in the ocean compared to some people out there.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And like you say, millionaires and people who've had lots of money for many, many years.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Not only do they have access, but even if they didn't, they've still got a lot of money.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and to be savvy with it, that's one thing, but they've still got a lot of money there to fall back on.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I think when people don't, that's where planning can come in.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it can come in at such a it can come in at such a crucial moment for some people, but it can also be crucial as well to manage that money and expectation for someone.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think educating people as well, because you'll tend to find that the price of a pound changes not just obviously with inflation, but with the individual.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're a kid and you went to the sweet shop with 20p, you know, 20p was a lot of money or 50p was a lot of money.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably you probably have to go with two pounds now to get the same thing.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um when you're little, you think, well, a pound, two pounds a lot, a lot of money.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: When you get a little bit older, you think, oh, 50 or 100 pounds a lot of money.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Then when you get to like our age and you're buying a house and it's you know, it's 100 plus thousand, 200 plus thousand, the value of money changes on an individual level.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when you try to get someone to understand what they have in that kind of broader sense, in terms of this is the value to you, they can kind of grasp it.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: They've kind of got in the back of the mind what it can be attributed against or can be worked against in a kind of a tangible manner.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: But then if we relate this to say retirement planning, 100 grand for one person, you might think that's not a lot of money at all.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: But then I've sat with literally with someone the back end of last year, had roughly around that amount, and he said, Oh, well, I'd like to retire by 65 if if I if I really can.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you could retire in like two years' time.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because the individual in question's expenditure was so low, the house was paid off, and uh, all these other little things that had to be brought into the forefront, they knew it.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: They just needed it to be brought into the forefront for them so they could understand and kind of think, all right, yeah, yeah, actually I can do that.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's just a basic, sometimes it's just a basic little conversation.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't financial advice doesn't have to sit there and go say, right, pension, no, we'll move it to here, a better here, or this, that, and the other.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's just education, even on a very small basic level, uh, just to open someone's eyes to it because they think, oh, financial advice or financial this, financial that, that's complex stuff.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's something I'm not educated in.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to feel stupid.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's all those kind of mentalities that go behind it, but sometimes it is as simple as, oh, well, actually, if you look at A, B, and C here, you can actually get to D very easily.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like the amount of times I've had that conversation, and I've not been in the industry that long, the amount of times I've had that conversation, and people just kind of go, Oh, oh yeah, that makes so much more sense.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I love those conversations, really.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, you're absolutely spot on, Chris.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of the time what we need is to be able to gain some perspective.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think, yeah, that's the main thing for a lot of people.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think things running through our head, don't we?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we and when it's running through our heads and we're trying to solve those problems ourselves, we're limited to what we know.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we're limited to our beliefs and our ideas and um our thoughts and our emotions and all those typical types of things.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if you get anything like me, I can get stuck in a complete and utter rut with thinking.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll go over and over and over and over the same thing, and I'm not getting anywhere.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I say as soon as I let go of that trying to solve it and fix that problem myself, and I share it with somebody else, and I ask for their perspective.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And more often than not, I will go to people who are experts within their field and ask their perspective.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: They just reframe it differently, present it back to me, and I'm like, oh God, why can even though I knew sometimes I know it, but I just need to have that reassurance and that different perspective presented back to me, that confirmation, I suppose, that you're thinking right and you should have the confidence.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: You should have the confidence.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that happens with quite a lot of things, really.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it doesn't even have to be from a financial point of view.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know sometimes, like my wife should be fine with me saying this, but um, sometimes I say to her, look, ask your dad.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know even if he's not an expert in the field of what we're we're talking about, there's a comfort level there when she asks.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And generally he's going to be saying the same thing that she's saying.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there is those kind of elements as well.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's, I guess, as financial planners or financial advisors, whatever you want to call yourself within the industry, that's what will realistically we should that should be the level we provide to people.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: It should be that assurance that you are on the right tracks.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Here's why, just so that people can understand.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: That realistically is what for some people, a 10, 15-minute talk.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that much out of your day to put someone on the right tracks who's in the right tracks.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they just need to know it sometimes.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that clients that you sit down with, there's usually a bank of scenarios or questions that they have that come up on a regular basis?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think what I've had more recently, um it tends to be around when they can retire.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that it that seems to be the sole focus.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know whether that's a a northeast mentality.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know whether it's just the age of clients that I'm seeing who've, you know, they've already got the house, they've had the kids, uh, they don't have heaps of disposable income.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So certain things have to take priority over other things.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I'm not sure if that's guiding what they're asking me to begin with, or it's that they just don't realize what, and I believe it's more the latter.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think people know what a financial advisor or financial planner does in general.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think the industry has been, you know, I don't want to rock the boat by saying tainted, but tainted by the past, where it was product versus product.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right, that's no good there, should move it here.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that still goes on today, and I know it does, but to a much smaller degree uh compared to 10, 15, 20 years ago.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what a lot of people think a financial advisor is, just it always seems to revolve around pensions.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: We do work with pensions a lot, that's it's fair to say we do, but it's it's not everything.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what the education that we need to kind of get out there to the wider audience and the wider public is that we as an industry can provide so much more than just retirement planning.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, you you I like what you're saying there, and I think you're absolutely spot on.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And a big part of the Financial Planner Life podcast is to be able to bring to life the role of a financial planner, the career of a financial planner, and what value that they add.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: What is the day-to-day duties, what is the job, dispel dispel some of those myths or preconceptions of a of a of a career within the profession.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really glad you've brought that up.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now one of the things that drew me to you, and and we've had our conversation with this about this previously.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd like to bring it to the attention of the listeners of the Financial Plan Life podcast.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I always I've always seen financial planning as a well-being uh proposition.
• 17:01
  unknown: Uh uh.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I was to create a financial planning firm, my brand would be all about well-being.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I connect it to well-being, you know, how to reduce your stress, how to improve your overall well-being, what good money management can do for you and your family and you know, your future and all those typical types of things, ways to lead a more balanced and happier life.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's the way I look at it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you position yourself as a financial well-being planner.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody does.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's quite unique.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody does that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: First off, what you know, why have you chosen to call yourself a financial well-being planner?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Secondly, question, um, has it had any benefits in opening up conversations with clients in a different way to historically what advisor would might have done?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess the first part of the question is uh it it's it stemmed from myself uh to have the well-being aspect done there.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um through my own uh, I guess, experiences with mental health, um, which we we can delve into uh later on.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: That was the main reason why I wanted to be seen as a well-being planner.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um part of it, I have to admit, is sort of branding to be a little bit different than others.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't like using the term financial advisor.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me it has a negative connotation because of what I just discussed before, the the view of what people think a financial advisor is.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you say financial planner or financial well-being planner, they say, Oh, so what's that?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they're prompted with a question because it's not something that's as common as the term financial advisor.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I guess putting well-being in there added that extra level of, so what does that mean?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: What does that do?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: It promotes that question for the individual, which is then I can kind of sit there with them and say, well, this is what this is what a financial well-being planner does.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I start with it's not just about retirement planning, it's not just about, you know, this fund versus that fund.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about those elements.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, they're tools more than anything else.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: The main part of what I'm here for as an individual is to help you become a more educated in a financial sphere.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: You've more so you're more comfortable in the financial sphere, so you understand, you know, when a crash happens, what that can entail and how that can affect you uh when inflation rates rise, you know, educating on those kind of fundamental levels so that people feel generally more comfortable and have that sense of I'm being looked after.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to worry, I don't have to stress.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's, I guess, a layer of protection in the background, and that's that's what I'm offering really.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of the time, well, that's what again, financial planners and the advice industry should be offering, should I say.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of conversations I have with people, we can sit and have an hour and a half fact find, we can sit and go through a presentation meeting, we can sit and go through buoyant and go through all the cash flow modeling.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, there's they might have asked you about a pension at the beginning, and then all the way at the end, it might be we do something with a pension at the end.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: But the four or five hours in between and all of the work done outside of it is all to make sure that even if at the end of the day the individual doesn't want to invest or do anything or move a pension or whatever it is, they've walked away and they feel better, more comfortable and more educated with what they have so that they don't have to worry as much because there's plenty to worry about in 2022 in the UK, there's plenty to worry about in 2022 in the world.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So taking away those stresses and those kind of worries is one of the main reasons that I got into the field.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And even from like a much younger age, working minimum wage in the cinema, I knew things about the tax system and I knew things about how like how little things worked.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and even at like that point, just educating people to understand about the tax system, you kind of see the minds go, all right, okay.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it turned a negative where everyone, because everyone hates tax, turned a negative into a sort of a um, I guess, a known, a known evil.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people appreciate it that much more.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So even from like a young age, it was something that I kind of gravitated towards.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that going forward, that'll be the main push for me, is making sure that people feel happy and looked after when it comes to their finances.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: It allows that also allows for discussion, doesn't it?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: It allows, like, for example, if you're somebody that challenges perhaps my black and white thinking, of which you did prior to us pressing play, uh record on this podcast around taxes, for example.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had an idea, I don't want to pay taxes, I pay way too much taxes.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then we talked a little bit about the tax and you know how it can change and the reason why some people don't want, you know, we want all these extra things, but we have to pay more taxes.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it opened up the conversation, didn't it?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden I wasn't so black and white with my thinking.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was more able to kind of, I guess, also be honest that I didn't have a clue.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't have a clue.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think the UK, as much as people might argue the toss on this, we are a low-tax country compared to many other countries out there, especially I don't I don't even know the word, the terms first world country and those kind of elements still exist as uh allowable terms, but other countries similar to us have much higher taxes.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, if you look across the pond at Europe, and there's some countries there that have 40% base rate tax.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know for a fact, if someone came in and said, we're going to put the tax rate up to 40%, it'd be pitchforks at dawn, um, kind of thing.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So no one really wants to pay more.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And from an individual point of view, you you can understand that no one wants to, you want more money to yourself for you to control, for you to do things with.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, the roads need fixing, you know, the NHS is under stress, the education uh systems in disarray and there's so many different areas, and you'll have to look at the strikes actually that are going on with the different industries to think, oh, well, actually, how's all this paid for, along with everything else?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or it's on a tax system.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I pay too much in tax.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, actually, we you don't.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: You we probably run a deficit every year to to keep everything going.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people, I think a lot of people do understand it, but they just don't want to admit it because then that would mean, oh, well, actually, yeah, maybe I should be paying a bit more.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it's one of the things that happens quite often where I have quite a few arguments with people from my my politics days, because that's what my degrees were in.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when we get compared to countries like Sweden or the Netherlands or some of these other high-tech countries, like, oh, they're the happiest place to live in the world, have this, they have that.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, yeah, but they also pay a lot more tax than we do.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to pay the same rate of tax?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not have, I don't know, personal allowances and all these, that and the other.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, well, no, not really.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you literally cannot have it all.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, I agree.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: So prior to being a financial well-being planner, working as a financial planner, you've obviously only been in the profession now for two years, roughly.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just over two years, yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Two years.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just talk about what you were doing before you became a financial planner.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was the job before you became a financial planner?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then just lead us on to where the decision came to actually become a financial planner.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so just before um would have been uh PPI case handler.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it started case handler, then it went to trainer of case handlers, and then it was like a subject matter expert for case handlers uh within the PPI kind of framework.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was a very to be honest, there was very similar elements in what we were doing.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so you had to go through more basic fact finds, uh, assess the individual, see if the the product was actually relevant.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so these kind of elements do actually link very, very uh very well with the actual financial advice world.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just a discussion with someone one day.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think we were on a trip, a few of us were sent on a trip down to Leicester to see a new system that was meant to be coming into play and we're meant to be giving feedback on it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And someone in the car just happened to mention that they were going through the RO exams.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh, I can't really afford to go back to university to to go down that route.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've always, always kind of liked the idea of being in financial services, uh, not in a bank, so to speak, but there was the the days when I was much younger, thinking of being like a stockbroker and hedge fund manager, which I blame American TV for, because obviously they make it look too easy and to make millions of pounds.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought as a kid, you just think, oh, that's that's what I want to do.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, life kind of gets in the way and you don't do the right subjects and stuff at uh college and university.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of thought that that's to be put to bed now.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he just happened to mention this, and then I queried him on it again during the week and just said, like, how does this how does this all work?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, you know, it's broken down to six modules.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, All right, so that's not as much as I thought.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: He said, You can do them as quick as slow as you want.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some people do it in you know, three or four months who are, you know, very, very literate and studious, and then some do it over a couple of years.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, All right, really, you can do it at your own pace.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, what's the cost behind it?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because you think probably degree level, you know, it's gonna be like nine, ten thousand pounds, you just have that lying around uh for years and years.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he just said, no, no, it's like once you join the CII, it's 200 pounds an exam.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, you've got to be kidding me.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's all it took.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it was a very simple after that, it was very simple to web search CII, in done, and then I was on the road.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you just kind of think it there's not really anything anywhere that I know of that kind of highlights that as a credible career path, aside from university.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we get a lot of um, we get brow beaten into right GCSCs, it's five ACs, right, A-levels, uh, just get some get into university, tick box, tick box, you're done.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Once you're in university, it's just it is what it is um at that point, really.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of think if I'd have known about this four, five, six years ago, I'd have jumped at it straight away then.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like, because it was in the grand scheme of things, it's cheap to get into, especially the CII route's the only route I know.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the other routes cost, but I imagine they're fairly similar.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it's very cheap to get into from an education standpoint.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be, it can be a lucrative career, uh, I've been told.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's true or not, I don't know.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um it can be an incredibly lucrative career.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: When you look at the role of a financial developer, I think in the very, very beginning, when you get in it, you are limited to the amount that you can earn based on your experience.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the reality of it.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: As you become more experienced in what it is you do, whether or not that's down the route of being an administrator to a power planner, to becoming a chartered power planner, to becoming a power planning manager, and you might even run your outsourced power planning company.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just going down the power planning route.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when it comes down to financial advice side, you could be a uh a trainee advisor, you could then move on into uh an employee, employed financial advisor role.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're kind of limited to the amount that you can earn in an employed role.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I know people that earn 150k, 200k plus as financial planners in an employed position.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I do know people that then decide, well, you know, I don't want to be employed anymore.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they move across into a self-employed proposition.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And although it can be hard in the beginning to establish your client bank and build that recurring income up, I know people that earn a considerable amount of money on a self-employed basis.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And quite quickly in the grand scheme of things in respect of other careers, you know, it's not about to take five years to get up to the levels of 100k earnings, 150k earnings on a self-employed basis.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: And not to mention, when you think about lucrativeness when it comes to financial planning, is that let's say, for example, you do go down that self-employed route and you build up your own business, you're also building a level of recurring income, right?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: So not only charging for those initial fees, but you're also building a level of recurring income for giving ongoing advice to those clients.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: But when you make the decision then to actually leave the profession, those client relationships that you hold are your relationships.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're self-employed, you are then able to um exit the profession and sell that client bank to an existing financial planning firm who want to buy that bank from you.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And there are people out there paying seven times what the recurring income is.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say you got 10 million quid under management at 1% ongoing charge, that's£100,000.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: You could be walking away from the profession if it hit the seven times trigger.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Seven times, 700 grand, you could exit the profession.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's just on 10 million under management, which isn't an astronomical amount for somebody to achieve.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So there is very, it can be incredibly lucrative as a career.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And as we see less and less financial planners more and more exiting the profession, there is this gap.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: There is this huge opportunity that needs to be filled.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when people listen to this podcast, I want them to understand that that is the case.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's plenty of people out there that need financial planning, but can't go and get it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: They just can't access it because there's not enough financial advisors out there, which is why we need more financial advisors to give that financial advice.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, if you're thinking about your earning potential, which often people shy away from in the financial planning podcasts, it's like, yes, you can earn a lot of money as a financial advisor.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with saying that, you know?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, no, I agree.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me, uh, because I'm I'm in the employed route at this moment in time.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it will, I will, well, at this moment, I would like to go self-employed on my own, um, where possible.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, I do chop and change my mind a lot, but that kind of goal is what I'd like to do, um, purely from uh be my own boss, you know, beholding only to myself.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: I believe I can do better than everyone else, uh, kind of attitude, um, which it's it's stung me in the tail a few times before in the past thinking I know I know best, but I don't know why you'd ever not think you know best, because otherwise you're always just gonna be someone else always gonna be like telling you otherwise.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it is a it is a position I do want to be in.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um the only reason I kind of went the employee route to begin with is just more from a financial safety point of view.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think I'm very lucky.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: I would say I'm incredibly lucky with where I am.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um I did start off very, very low income uh in comparison to the industry, but I was working for one individual, his client base is moderate size.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's got to obviously take his income out of it and plan for his retirement out of it as well.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: So like I knew, well, it's my foot in the door, but since then he's been very, very generous in what I get uh from a financial point of view, and even the my remuneration contract, I wrote it up and give it to him.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he just said, Yeah, that seems fair because I I'd made it fair to me, but I'd also made it fair to the business.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I wasn't just going in there saying, give me give me loads of money for doing nothing.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let me let me stop you there then, because that's very unique that you you wrote up your own remuneration package.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just go back again.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you were working in the uh the PPI role, okay?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: You became a bit a PPI expert, right?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: You then set up your own business as a consultant within the PPI space or not?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was, yeah, well, not as much really.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was more to do with um you could either be umbrella or not umbrella.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was kind of going down that route of well, you could manage yourself and be invoiced directly, but you had to be a limited company to do that uh and then pay the applicable taxes.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: You became like a self-employed contractor.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, basically.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you did that.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: You then decided from a choice con, you know, from a chance conversation with a friend in a car, you started to get a bit of a deeper understanding of what he or she was it, he or she was working.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: He yeah.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: He was working toward and he was he working towards becoming a financial planner as well.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: That was his sort of Yeah, yeah.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he well, there was a few of us actually.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: He started me off on it.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I started someone else off on it.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, I think they already knew the way to do it anyway.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I think it was more of a oh, this this is the route, this is how it's done, so to speak.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a few people, because I had the book on me uh whilst I was working edge, reading through it every now and again.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was quite excited about it, not gonna lie, I was quite excited about the route that I was starting on taking.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a few people who kind of asked about it, and I think pretty much all of them now have gone financial planner route or at least gone mortgage advisor route, and this, that, and the other, which they'd probably never have thought of beforehand.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a few of us in that whole space that must have talked or discussed things at one point or another, and a few of us have now gone in that route.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, a few work for a few companies in the area uh that are of a decent size.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just work for a, like I say, just one guy, uh, all doing different things, but we're all in the same space, similar age.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it was just one chance conversation, kind of spurred it on for quite a lot of people within um the PPI world where we were, which is it's nice to see.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because I say we need more advisors anyway.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people find it very difficult to get into the profession because like unlike accountancies and solicitor firms, there isn't this clear career path route into the profession.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we alluded to that earlier, didn't we?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd have known about this perhaps around the university stage or the college days, you might have taken that pathway if you knew it was accessible and available to you and how much cheaper that level of education actually is.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: So knowing that you were you were keen to become a financial planner and you've made that decision, you then understood and started to undertake the qualifications through the CII down the RO route.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: At what stage then were you thinking, well, hang on, I need I also need a job.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: I need to get my first job in the profession.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: When did you start thinking about it?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think I waited until my RO6 result was back.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: So then I had the diploma.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I think a lot of places were asking, even for it, what I did want advice right off the bat, but even for like planning roles or even even for some places, like admin roles were expecting diploma level, um, which I thought in some respects was a bit rich for say like an admin position, because you weren't going to get paid anywhere near what someone else for the level four diploma would be getting.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's just so that they could probably build you up from that point on.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it was very much my results in start looking for jobs in the area uh and just sending out as many applications as possible.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, keep it for me, I wanted to keep it fairly local.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then that was just before COVID hit.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you can imagine um how many responses came back after March 2020.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it wasn't many.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was going through uh one of those academy processes as well at the same time, and that kind of fell through because of COVID.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it was the company I work for now, which is Bentley Brown and Co.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Phil just getting in touch and just persisting over the teams and lockdown kind of situation in getting that job.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: He needed support, uh, his previous support staff had gone.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was quite lucky that that kind of cropped up the the same time that I was looking for a job, and it kind of went very hand in hand.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's just up the road from where I live.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm Killingworth and he's in Ashington, so it's like a 10-15-minute drive.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: So your first, okay.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you well, you say it's kind of like, but at the same time, you did sort of study within your own time, right?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: While still earning money.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you got your level four diploma before you even started looking around.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: That in turn gives companies a bit more confidence that you are committed to becoming a financial planner.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: And really, in if that was today, they'd be biting your hand off with a couple of ROs, you know.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: There is a need, a direct need for people who are um of a certain uh have certain skill sets that are transferable.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it might not get you into a financial advice role straight away, but it might get you into like an administrative position um and they can see that you have um your theories about it and you start taking some of those qualifications.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, uh when you became level four, you put yourself out there, you did a bit of marketing around.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a really good, a really good um a lesson that people should be learning anyway, is to market themselves, LinkedIn, send some emails out, make a few phone calls, arrange a couple of meetings.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Did you use a recruitment agency at all, or did you just do this all of this off your own back?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of it was off my own back.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was in was in like a one or two recruitment agencies, and some of them were some of them were quite helpful, some of them were um, I guess they could steer me in the right direction.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think because of the time, because COVID had hit and it was in its full swing as well, uh, very quickly in the April, May, June.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I was hired by the end of June.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in that initial stage, there weren't really many, I guess, jobs for people to go to because people didn't really know if they were still going to be running a business in a year's time and this, that, and the other.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was very, very, I guess, a very unique experience going through that initial three-month lockdown kind of period trying to find a position.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: But what I did find is the recruitment agencies I used or had contacted me through LinkedIn, they just set my, I guess, expectations, which was quite nice because I didn't know what to expect going into the industry.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, you've done the old Google search and it's just like average earnings of a UK financial advisor, and it came up as 90 grand, and you're just thinking, like, well, that's not really the case, is it?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not going to be walking in on that amount of money.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, how you know how often do training contracts and things like that come up?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you look for trainee and financial advisor roles, and there didn't seem to be any.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was very tough, but they kind of geared me towards, right?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you want to be a financial advisor, you can go down these routes.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's the start as a power planner, build up your, I guess, your admin and compliance side first, and then you can just hit the ground running, going into the advice role, uh, which I do fully recommend.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think unless you've got a very, very solid support base within wherever you're going to work uh and have the support staff there that are going to do a hell of a lot of work for you.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Go through it yourself so you understand it, so you know you can do it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't do that and you go straight advice, uh whether it's self-employed or employed, if you don't have that support in the background, you will struggle.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't want my own work now because I like to start it and finish it and do everything in between.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: So suitability letters, cash flow and I do absolutely everything, I don't use it as um uh any support staff, but I know where the worth is.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: So when I get to the point where I can't manage anymore, I know I will need a support staff.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I've already been doing this fully advising, a full year of advice said a full pretty much a full year as a power planner.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: The full year of advice, I'm getting to the point now where I probably need a support staff because of just how much time is used up.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm glad I've gone through it because I know what I need and it kind of gears me as well in how I interact with clients because you know exactly the information you're gonna need and the structure of everything, the documents you're gonna need, the ID and all those kind of things.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's loads of little things you will miss on a day-to-day basis.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people do it if you know they've got like 20 years' experience.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if you go in straight away as an advisor with all the training in the world, you're probably gonna miss a lot of stuff that it could be detrimental to a client.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think with the best intentions, yeah, unless there is the right support there in place.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, unless the right support there is, which a lot of companies do have.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm with you.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's two options, isn't there?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's going as a financial advisor, okay, straight into the financial advice role, and off you go.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: But you're going to need some support.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think most importantly, you're going to need some access to clients, right?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because in front of clients, you're going to need to be able to get your competent advisor status signed off.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: A big part of being an advisor.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be able to sit in front of clients, do the job, um, have the support in the background, the training and development to run alongside you and the coaching to run alongside you so you know what you're doing, uh, the supervision observation so you can patch your competent advisor status.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the most, that's that's one of the most important things.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're going to go into being a financial advisor without any of that in place, you're probably going to be setting yourself up for failure unless you've got some absolute kick-ass uh business plan, right?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen many a person go through some of the academies that are out there, where at the end of it, it's just like, right, you're qualified, off you go, and they fail.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've seen it.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: There are a fair few academies out there that do offer that level of support, which I just suggested.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so at this stage, I want people to understand the first time I spoke about on my podcast, but the Financial Plan of Life Academies, I've now set up and I'm building an amalgamation of entry-level opportunities and academies within the financial planning, all on the websites.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be in the Financial Plan of Life Academies.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you go there, I'm going to be interviewing the people that run academies, the people that run firms that have tried and tested routes within their businesses.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it really does outline and show you exactly all the support that you're going to get to be able to move into, say, a role of financial planner, because it can be done leaving one profession and moving into the financial planner role.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: And realistically, over the next few years, we're going to need to see second careerists that perhaps are going to struggle.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: They really want to become a financial advisor, but they haven't got the ability to drop a salary down to 25,000 pounds and start as an administrator.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: They need to move into those roles of being a financial planner.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps they have a really solid network that they can fall back on and deliver financial advice to, as long as they've got the right support, client access in the beginning, et cetera, et cetera.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we're solving there with the Financial Planet Life Academies, is bringing those to life.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the latest one that's coming out is MG Wealth.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: So look out for that one.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: That should be coming out this week.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that'll be a real deep dive into what the MG Wealth Academy is all about.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you um have any pearls of wisdom?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, no, before we start that, I'd like to know a little bit about this remuneration offer that you made because that's very bold.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about that.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was because when I first started there was potentially an advisor going to join, and I remember seeing what uh Phil had kind of put together um for that for that individual, and he'd never done anything like this before, so it was new to him.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: So he didn't he didn't by his own writings and admission, he didn't know what was allowed.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not allowable because it's his business and do what he wants, but what was fair, what worked, what didn't work, uh anything like that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately that person didn't join, but I remember seeing that contract, then there's someone else who came and he tried something different with with that contract, and then ultimately I think she went a different way, uh geographic and things like that.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: So then it was just kind of left to me and him.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it was something that I kind of thought about over the time whilst I was there.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I within the industry, you generally get, especially from an employee point of view, you get something called validation, the validation of your wage.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, you get splits of the business.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, for me as an individual, it it should be one or the other.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: It should there's no, I don't think there's any other job out there that would make you validate your wage before you then could start maybe zoning bonuses and things like that on top.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um in a in a such an explicit manner, I guess.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think from from my point of view, and again, I could be crucified uh for saying these kind of things, but if I'm bringing, especially in the situation I'm in, because I'm working with Phil's client bank, and even if I brought in clients from my own very, very, very small network, um, and I know my network's quite weak really, so I am relying on Phil.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm bringing people in.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: So the company gets the the money comes, the money comes into the company.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: I then validate my wage, then after that I get split, and then something some of that will then come my way, but the company gets the wage validated, part of the split, and the entire business value of what that's going to be worth to sell.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: So in my mind, I'm just kind of thinking, well, do we need to have both there?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and ultimately I did keep both elements, but when I was working online, I saw places doing times two, times three, times four validation.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking, Hell yeah, that's that's a lot to actually contend with.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it depends where the split came in as well.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: So can I just ask you a question?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Around the split, is that because, like, say, for example, you were to bring a client on board?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, then it'd be your client.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I suspect because you're going, because you're a part of St.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place and you're underneath a partner practice of St.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place, so some of those clients that you bring on would eventually become an opportunity for you to buy those clients and that for that to be your client bank?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: In the future, yeah.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: That would be um, especially if I bring in someone myself that's not connected with Phil in any way.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like the splits are more generous in my my favor.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if I did want to buy them in the future, we've leveraged like discounts and things like that, if it's just his clients that were already his weren't to begin with.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: So the splits are much, much lower.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: What you've got there, so what you had there was a validation of salary.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: So if anybody that's listening to this and doesn't quite understand that, you might see 30,000 pound basic salary, but to trigger any kind of bonus, any extra earnings on top of your basic salary, you would need to validate your salary.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that looks like two times validation.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, you'd have to do 60,000 pounds worth of fee income before you can actually earn any extra income on top of your basic salary, right?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: In my situation, it's times one.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that's so I I put in times one because I thought that's fair.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: I cover my wage, aside from the national insurance part of it, because obviously it works both ways, but I cover my wage, and then after that, everything's split.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: And at the moment, we're just splitting everything 50-50.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: That that's just kind of how it works.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: So he's getting that bit covered and then 50% of everything else.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: So he's walking away with profit and he's getting the whole business value at the same time.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: I get my wage and then that that little that portion of the 50%, which is great.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to me, I thought that's fair.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Where are a few people who looked at the contract and said, hey, he's been really generous to you there.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, when I give it to him, he was just like, Yeah, that's that's pretty fair.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was pretty fair.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was only the wider industry that thought, hey, you've pulled the wool over his eyes there.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, I don't really see how.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is fair to both business and the advisor.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a little bit alien to me.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'd like to think in the future, if I ever did employ anyone to be an advisor, that I wouldn't I wouldn't be doing that.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be, like I say, one or the other.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever they want to choose.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I think the especially validation, that's the scary element because you kind of it's I have it so much rolling month on month.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if I don't pay one month, it's gonna build up and build up and build up.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: And even though Phil had never, if you know Phil's a really nice guy, Phil had never been like knocking on my door saying, Oh, actually, uh£10,000 down in validation or anything like that.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's not like that at all.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I can see for a lot of people that'd been a real stress.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, a real stress and a real like mental kind of you know, nagging in the background, constantly kind of being there uh as like a dark cloud.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the main reasons I don't like it.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's why the FCA don't particularly like any form of commissions or bonus pay within financial thing, because it puts people either in a situation where they're just chasing bonuses and they might give bad advice because or they're nervous and anxious and worried about the pressures that are involved, and therefore, again, might drop the ball, you know, might make bad decisions.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: So when you look at some of these larger firms that are out there, what they have is quite high basic salaries and then a discretionary bonus on a yearly basis.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's worked out that way.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be worked out based on your quality of work, um, the level of income that you might bring in.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you'll never really know what anybody else might have got because it's more of a tap on the shoulder type thing than it's really kind of at the end of the year, this is what you're this is what you've bought in, this is how much you're gonna earn as bonus, but we're gonna pay you a higher basic.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think we'll see that more and more and more within the profession as the years go on, and that's where we're seeing the salaries go up on a basic level.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, in those types of companies that I've mentioned, I'm not gonna mention who they are, but it's not unusual for basic salaries to be anywhere between 60 to 100,000.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then this discretionary bonus that's that's on top of it.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a bit more in line with like how how accountancy firms and how solicitors work with their staff.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of works in that way and it negates and removes the need for people to fill in the pressure around bonuses, et cetera.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'd agree with the FCA and what you've just said, in terms of, like I say, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in a position where I know it's not going to be chased, but even for my own personal, you know, mindset, it's still there.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really feel for people who are stuck in positions where it's the validation's really high, or they're in a position where you've got to hit, you've got to hit target, you've got to hit bonus, because it we used to be a sales-based environment years ago, and we shouldn't really be descending into a sales-based environment again.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: We should be doing everything we can to avoid such a thing.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: So a higher basic wage would probably go a long way to solving that problem and just having doing away with, oh, you could bring in 200,000 pounds in a year.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you walk away with, you know, 70, 80,000 pounds worth of bonus.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, yeah, you can use those very, very, very small examples of that someone did that once, one time, one year, years ago.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the reality.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't sell someone on that reality when it doesn't exist and then put them in an environment where they're just constantly going to be stressed because the job in itself is stressful because you you're dealing with people's lives at the end of the day.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's you're telling them to move potentially money around or do this a different way or put protection or whatever in place.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you're dealing with people on a very, very, very personal level.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't want to be in a position where you think, you know what, if I just say things this way, they'll probably take this.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll get I'll get this money out of it.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: And no one should be in that position in the industry.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if anyone ever does feel like they're in that position, I think it's at that point you kind of have to think, am I in the right, am I in the right frame of mind?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: But am I at the right business that's putting clients first?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you feel that way, it's probably not.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: From a personal point of view, obviously.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um with you.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: I that's the way it should, that is really the way it should be.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: There shouldn't really be any commission basis within financial planning, you know.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it it shouldn't really, it shouldn't be that way.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: You should be paid a fair salary for the level of work that you do as as a professional within the profession.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's the way it works.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: But what you have is a lot of smaller companies that can't match that, they can't do that.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: So they are driven by bringing people in that can generate income.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you to generate income for the business, they need to be able to put things in place that are going to motivate that individual to go out and write business.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a kind of a fine line, you know, when you're as a business owner, that's what you do.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: You you need to incentivize people.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because especially when, for example, people are joining your business that don't have anything to bring to the table.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not like they've got a client bank that they're going to move across or an established client bank or anything.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to see that more and more as well over the years, where people are coming in with not anything really uh to bring to the table in respect of innovatable, transferable business.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a fine line, you know, there is this kind of, well, we need to incentivize people, we need people to be uh motivated to go out and do the business development because we need that, because as a business, we need to bring income in, because I need to pay that person a salary that they're looking for.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, an average salary in the financial planning profession, say after two years, it is 45, you know, 45, 50k basic salary.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Chuck on your and chuck on all your costs and everything that go on top of that as a business owner.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of money.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: I run a business of 22 recruitment consultants.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know exactly it, you know, it's costly, it costs money, and we need them to bring income in.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: But there is a fine line between what is motivating somebody in the right or the wrong way and what the effect that can have on the business as a whole.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there is this tricky conversation around it and it's being had.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say, yeah, it is definitely something where there is there has to be a fine line.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you cannot there's only so far an incentive can work before it's not an incentive anymore.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's just detrimental.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, like you say, it's it's nice that these conversations are going on in the industry.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's it'll be a long time to see smaller companies that like I work with, where it could just be one, two, three people being able to, like I say, dole out 60 something thousand pounds as an entry-level job or an entry-level like kind of financial advisor.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I wasn't bringing anything to the table with where I am.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, my network was a lot of people like myself who didn't really have a lot to begin with.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and whilst I would like to work with those people and help build them up, there's also that one mind of, oh, well, I should really be working with this client because obviously it's gonna bring money in this way.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Phil needs to be fully, you know, facilitated in terms of you know the trust and whatever he's putting in into me and having this job.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be difficult.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: It does play on the mind quite a lot.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I would definitely tell anybody that's quite new to the profession is that that first, if you're lucky enough to get into your first financial advice position, you know, big pat on the back because you know it takes time, energy, um, study to do that, right?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: But in your first couple of years, you are a trainee, you know, you are training.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be too bogged down uh by the finer detail of what commission structure or what bonus structure or anything like that.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would be aligning myself to is the company, does the company have the right values?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have the right opportunities for me to do the job that I need to do?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's experience at that point, is what you need.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be sitting down in front of clients and delivering financial planning.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is there opportunities to deliver some complex financial planning?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is there um potential there for some further study?
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Is there somebody there that can coach me and mentor me and train me and develop me?
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a potential exit for the individual who runs the business where perhaps I might be able to look after their clients?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or is there a longer-term goal here where I can inherit some clients from this individual?
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think these are the types of things that someone needs to think about in the very, very beginning, but not to overload themselves too much, because two years of experience of being a financial advisor, right?
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you were on a basic salary of 35 or something like that, right?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: It might not be the amount of money that you want to earn, but the experience that you gain within that two years will see that salary jump up exponentially.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: It will go up.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: It will just go up after two years, you know, because your value and your marketability in them in the profession goes just skyrockets.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's only going to get higher and higher as more people exit out of the profession.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't like it when people get too bogged down in the beginning of like, I want to be earning this much, I deserve this much, and I deserve that much.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, ooh, slow down, get your experience because all that's gonna come.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna come.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I see it.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: It does come, it does follow.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: And also when you've got that two, three years experience, you might make a decision that actually being employed isn't the pathway for me.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I might want to go down the self-employed route.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, you know, I'm gonna put my energy and my efforts into running my own business and looking at the long-term picture.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I anybody that comes into the financial planning should financial planning profession, I think, right, should be talking to um somebody who's an expert in how to run your own financial planning business, all the intricate details of what you need to do because it's not that complicated, especially if you go down the route of becoming like an appointed representative or something like that.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that there are there are different, there's different future options for you.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's good to start to understand that in the very beginning of your career.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't get too tied down in the employed model if inside you have an entrepreneurial spirit of where you want to run your own business.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: But it's all relative because you could go into an employed role, you could meet somebody within that employee position who wants to exit the profession, and you could become the succession plan for that person.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: They might help you buy out the clients and leave you with a great client bank and a great business to move forward on.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, there's plenty of opportunity like that out there at the moment due to the retiring advisors.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just so much opportunity at that entry level point.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't like it when people get too heavily feeling low about the salary side of it in the very beginning.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm going to be honest, that that was me.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to be honest, everyone probably has felt like that at the start at some point, whether they try to avoid it or not.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if I'd have done this five, six years ago, I'd probably be having a pretty different conversation now than um than what we are actually having.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was a lot more driven, especially in the PPI world, you could do extra days and work extra days and try and bring in like extra money.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was very much very gung-ho on that.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but from university not knowing where I wanted to be, and not having a, I guess, a proper job for years, right through the financial crash, then getting a job where you could earn a lot of money, um, just different stresses, different factors, you know, it it did lead to a breakdown for for myself from uh from like a mental health point of view.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then I've kind of channeled that now into the way I see myself going forward.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: And originally there was that old gremlin on the shoulder kind of thing that was, hey, you could have a you could buy out in like a year or two's time and you know, you could be earning X and X and X amount of money.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just, oh, that'd be great, it makes things life so much easier, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: But very, very quickly you learn the reality that that isn't gonna be the case.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, it does take just every now and again just speaking to someone to kind of who's on your level, uh, going through the same thing as you are, because you'll have the conversation with them and they'll say, Look, Chris, come on, we're in the same boat here.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: You've gotta you've got to manage your expectations, you've got to look at things from this point of view, and you just kind of you simmer down, you think, actually, yeah, you're you know what, you're right, you shouldn't really be looking at it that way.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then a few months down the line, I'll be having that conversation with the same person, but it it's it's the other way around.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it it happens.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for a lot of people who want to come into the industry, it's a great industry to be in.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think helping people on a very personal level, um, you know, you can have like a real impact on someone, and if that's something that you kind of like the idea of.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me, I like the puzzle side of it, everyone's a little bit different and there's a different puzzle to be had, and it keeps things fresh, it keeps things interesting on a day-to-day basis.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I need that to kind of keep keep my interest.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: If something's just the same all the time, like I get kind of get bored and I'd probably move on.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: But financial set, like the financial advice advice side of things, it's always changing all the time with all the rules, but every client is different.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: The product that you might do at the end might be the same as everyone else's, but how you've got there is going to be completely different.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think having someone who is going through it either with you at the same time or has done it very recently, or is maybe it's even just before you, someone around the same kind of timeline, give or take six, seven months or something like that, can be really helpful in keeping you grounded.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you you then also can keep them grounded at the same time because you you will inevitably at the very start, you'll see big numbers come through one day, or big to yourself, should I say.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: Big numbers start to come when you let go of that pride and that need for control.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: So thinking in your head what you are.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: You said you said the perfect thing, lowering your expectations a little bit.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: Stop setting the bar so high so early on in your career.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: Surround yourself with people that can help you and support you.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you do that, you will start to you'll start to loosen up a little bit.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're not so highly strong, you're not so driven by this idea of money, prestige, property, whatever it is that's really driving you, those things.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I deserve all of that, I deserve all of that.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we all deserve uh a good income for the hard work that we do.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it it does come.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: It comes, it will, it will come, like have faith it's going to come.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that you said there, one of the things which didn't often happen within the financial planning profession, but to the ones that I know have been a success is because they do communicate, they do surround themselves with other financial planners, whether they're from different firms, they network really well and they learn from each other when you're kind of locking it all up in your own head.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I did it as a recruitment business owner for so long.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the things that I should have just let go and just asked for help so many times.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I just burnt myself out and I had a breakdown, like terrible breakdown, like mental health breakdown, depression and drinking and anxiety and suicidal thoughts, horrendous.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a big reason why I've um partnered with Talk Club, uh, Men's Mental Fitness Charity.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: I created the Financial Plan of Life Talk Club for people who within the profession to talk to each other, um share how they're feeling, because when you share it and you hear it from somebody else's perspective, you realize you're not the only one going through a difficult time, for example.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um that thought of like, you know, I do I deserve more?
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Am I setting my expectations too high?
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Of course I deserve more.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and when you've done all the qualifications and you studied hard and you're looking at average figures like you did at the beginning of the call, you said, you know, 90 grand out there, you're thinking, I'm getting ripped off here.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: But are you really?
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's a profession that year on year, if you keep yourself aligned with what's going on in the profession as a whole from a salary perspective, is your remuneration package in line with other remuneration packages?
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: It allows you to check in every now and then and then to go back to your employer and say, look, it's slightly what you're offering is wrong and you need to change it.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's people in my business that have done that to me.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: They've come to me.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I liked about your confidence in speaking to them about the remuneration package after you did a bit of research.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: Guys in my office come to me and they're like, Sam, this is what's going on now, this is what we're being offered.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: And instantly I'm like, oh shit, they're gonna take my people are gonna head on my staff, I'm gonna lose them all.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: All right, you know, and I think, well, okay, when I go out and do my research, I talk to rec to rec companies, I talk to other recruitment managers, and I find out what it is they're doing, and I come back and I reasset, I re- I readjust and I re- I change things.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that happens a lot within our business.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: We change things quite often because the profession changes.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now we've got to we've got to keep up to date with it.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: That only comes from sort of connecting with others and and and learning from others and and and double checking to make sure, right, okay, well, based on my experience, am I earning a good money?
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: But second to that, right, which I think is really, really important, is that am I enjoying it?
• 1:05:22
  unknown: Uh yeah.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do I enjoy what I'm doing?
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: Could I be doing what I'm doing in the next two years?
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, am I really enjoying this?
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're really enjoying it, and there is potential for your earnings to go up, right?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of firms lack, say what they lack, is that they lack a clear career progression chart that sort of shows what you can earn each step of the way as you progress through the business.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_00: God, if so many financial planning firms just put that in place.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you look on my wall in here, right, as soon as someone walks in for an interview with me, I turn around and go, that's our career progression chart there.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you can look at that.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is where you're going to start, and this is where you can end up.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: And these are the boys and girls out.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: There, who are all at these different stages, and this is what their average earnings are.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: And when I do that and I clearly define it, their faces are like, oh it's it's doable, isn't it?
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like 100% it's doable, but it's down to you to get it done.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think often a lot of financial planning firms don't clearly define what the career progression route is, don't clearly define what the remuneration package is against that level of experience.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if they did that, they would keep their staff and staff wouldn't leave, but they need to do that by checking in with what other people are paying as a whole.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's so disjointed financial planning.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's so disjointed.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that to be honest, I think the industry is in many respects.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's kind of you've become financial planner.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the book stops at that point, and it's just you just kind of get given all well, the sky's the limit, and it's just kind of that's great.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I to be honest, I kind of think it's a little bit similar to where you know people just passing the GTSEs and people just passing their A levels now are kind of in a similar position of there's no set career uh path.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I know I struggled with this, which was schools don't kind of gear you to us, because they just don't have the facilities to do it, really, or most don't.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can do whatever you want.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: And in the financial advice world, it's oh, you're a financial advisor now, you can make whatever you want, and you just kind of think, well, what what what's realistic?
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't really, unless you know people like we've just mentioned, or have that network of people who've experienced it firsthand, you're not gonna have, you know, you're not gonna have a good initial first few months uh going through things.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I try to keep, I kind of thought to myself, look, I'm just gonna get my head down, do the work.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I want to do.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if you were having this conversation even at the start of the year, that'd be pretty bogged down because I couldn't see where you know the path laid ahead.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's only since I've been speaking to people from other uh other companies and a few friends are in the industry as well that have kind of said, Oh, well, you know, we're on this wage and we're on that wage.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of like thinking, right, okay, well, I can, you know, I've now got my chartership, so I can now maybe ask for this from from Phil and stuff.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that does give you that confidence.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely does.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I've experienced that myself this year going through uh that negotiating.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, I think the financial service industry does need to put more in place.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a lot after financial advisor in terms of a like a job role.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can change the title as much as you want, but as a financial advisor, financial planner, not much changes in terms of a job role, apart from if you maybe manage a business.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think they could do something along the lines of right, well, in the first zero to two years, this is industry kind of averages of what people are kind of earning.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's going to change through the different geographic areas, but the researchers there, the the the numbers that they can easily bring up, other companies can like I said, I've just interviewed um Tom Heggerty from MNG Wealth, and MNG Wealth are taking on a lot of financial advisors.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that they've got a financial advisor academy.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm working with them.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what I really liked when I spoke to Tom was they have a realistic earning potential for somebody who is either joining their academy as um a graduate or joining their academy as a second careerist.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's so important that the profession has realistic earning potentials.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a bit like recruitment.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: You see a recruitment job advert.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: Earn£100,000 in your first year, absolute rubbish.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like people earn hundreds of thousands of pounds in in recruitment, right?
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_00: I got a friend of mine, he does, I think his earnings is like 350,000 a year, right?
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_00: In recruitment as a contract recruiter.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's what he earns.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable money, right?
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you can earn incredible money within financial planning.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: But he didn't do that from in his first year.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: It took him a lot, a long time and a lot, a lot of hard work to get to the level that, and I mean, the guy's a machine, an absolute machine, right?
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And when I spoke to Tom, I was like, well, what's the realistic earnings?
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, look, we've worked it out based on what we can give individuals as client leads, not based on what they can bring to the table, but what we can give them if they joined our academy and set themselves up self-employed.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it was 25,000 in year one, would be a realistic minimum earning if you were self-employed underneath their model and get 100% of their leads.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: 50,000 in year two, 75,000 in year three.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's the minimum, but their expectation is that you you get more because you're generating business off your own back.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I found that just such a refreshing conversation.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an area, again, where I want to focus my attention on.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So when I get people on my Academy's focused Financial Planet Life Academy's focused page and on the podcast, that's I want to be hammering on and saying, like, let's be realistic about earnings because the expectation that somebody gets qualified and then they're a financial advisor, and it's like, you're not a financial advisor because you're qualified, right?
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: For a start, you've got your qualifications.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make you a financial advisor, and it allows you to practice as a financial advisor.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: But there's still a few years left for you to understand exactly what you need to do and how to best position yourself as a financial advisor and how you business develop clients and how commission structures work and blah de blah de blah.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I definitely, you know, the focus for me on realistic earning potentials is is is something I think should be hammered home because it can be really misleading.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I'd agree.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think the industry for for what it is, it's great.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for the you know, the earning potential is out there.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it does fluctuate between the obviously the those who work every hour under the sun.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm very much, I want to keep a work-life balance.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I work with um, like I said, the guy I work with Phil, uh, he puts in a lot of hours and has done for years to build up what he has.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm very much the other way, so I know my earning potential is probably going to be limited to what he's he's been doing for years.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm happy with that because I want it the work-life balance is now more important to me than the financial side of things.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people need to also appreciate that.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think if COVID taught us anything, is that a work-life balance is very, very important.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think you just can't have it.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can't have it all, can you?
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, you can't.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, you can't be on six, seven, six figures a year or high six figures a year, doing whatever and doing ridiculous sums, but then also be home at weekends, home every evening and having holidays and whatnot.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not feasible.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can, but it comes later on.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, much later on.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got 200K's worth of recurring income coming in, and then you employ a financial advisor to help you out on a 50K, and then you know, you can take a step back, split those clients down.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: You might see a handful of clients that you want to go and see, and then the advisor you've employed is then supporting you to do that, and you're earning a nice income and you've got that work-life balance that you're looking to looking to have at the level of earnings that you actually require.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot of energy and effort that goes in to do that in the very in the very, very beginning.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're looking for that work-life balance, like I said, you can't have it all.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a massive advocate of work-life balance, right?
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not in, I run a recruitment business and I'm not, I've got million-pound billers.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not what we're about.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Mine is about making sure that the people in here have a good benefits package, have a good work-life balance, like maintain and manage their mental health.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: The last thing I ever would want is someone to come into my business and be sick from doing the job that they're actually doing and the pressure that perhaps that I might be putting on and putting them under.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I've made it so, so like well-being focused, so work-life balance focused that what people need to understand if they work for me is that you're not going to be earning£100,000 a year in three years, right?
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: You might get to that level in five years, but you're certainly not going to get it within three years.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to enjoy your life, yeah, be happy.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Come and work for me.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad that you've picked that out.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned that you had a bit of a tough time around, you had a bit of a breakdown, tough time around your mental health.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_00: When was that then?
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Was that prior to getting into the financial planning profession?
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Was it after?
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: When was that?
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was before.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was weird really because I'd struggled for quite a few years and I didn't really probably didn't really want to admit it was a mental health.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, mental health changed, the perception of mental health changed such uh a great amount in the last say five years.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wasn't really a not a firm believer, but I was very much in the camp of that, it won't affect me.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's you know, I'm not I'm not depressed or anything like that.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I you know, you just don't understand what these things really mean.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was going through the PPI job to begin with, it's a high pressure environment.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just came out of working for KFC as a manager because I wanted to move away from the cinema where I'd been at for like seven years or something like that.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you look on Facebook and all of the social medias of all your friends doing X, Y, and Z, and you just it gets you down, it gets you down, it gets you down.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_01: You think I should be further ahead in uh in life than this, and then you kind of think, oh, I shouldn't feel the way I do.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I always used to overthink everything.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so if anyone ever, you know, sent me an email or anything like that and said, Oh, can you just come see me?
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'd have, by the time I'd walked to that person's desk, I'd thought of maybe it was a hundred, two hundred different scenarios that could have played out, just going over in my head.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they were never good scenarios, they were always they were always negative.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it just stressed my brain out too much.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I worked away for uh a little bit, um, still doing PPI, but it was away from home.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't do well away from home.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm very I'm very codependent.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I love being around my wife.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_01: We've been together for coming up to 13 years now.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_01: We've been married for five just over five years, and I love spending time with her.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been one of these people who kind of go, oh, you know, we'll have a lad's holiday to get away from the wife kind of thing.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, well, it doesn't make any sense.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'd want to go with my wife if we've gone on holiday.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, she's my best friend for the love of my life.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_01: I she's always there for me.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't handle working away from her, even though it was up, I think it was like in Scotland somewhere, for and it was, it wasn't for a long period of time, but I couldn't really handle it.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it was on the back of a load of stress, a lot of anxiety buildups, uh, panic attacks, and all all all of the the the good stuff that comes with a mental health crisis.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that was kind of like the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in a much like you said, was in a similar position of what if I just wasn't here?
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of had this moment of euphoria where I just kind of thought, actually, this makes sense now.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_01: But if I'm just not here, everything will be fine.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Jen will be fine.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_01: She's a lovely, absolutely amazing individual.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_01: She'll find someone else.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then actually, ironically, so the overthinking and everything that has exhausted my mind was the thing that got me out of it at the same time.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because then I started thinking, well, actually, Jen really loves me.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_01: She'd be devastated.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if I took my own life and things like that.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's literally I came home that weekend and then just kind of never went back.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just a few months of, I guess, rehabilitation at home, just kind of getting my mind right on things and understanding that it doesn't matter how you got to feel, and it sounds weird to say this, but it doesn't matter how you got to feeling what you feel.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever you feel is credible.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to think, I don't deserve to feel this way when there are people out there who are much worse off than I am living on the streets, uh in abusive relationships, the whole nine yards.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to think, my life's not that bad.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't be allowed to feel this way.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of the things that made things worse for myself because then you were just kind of thinking, well, I shouldn't feel this way, I'm not allowed to feel this way.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_01: But then you feel sick because you do feel that way when other people are having it worse.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you just go around and round in circles.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just a friend of mine kind of said, like, you're allowed to feel the way you feel.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of a very simple realization of, well, yeah, it doesn't matter how I got here, this is how I'm this is how I feel.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter what's gone on, it's or what other people are going through.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I feel this way.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I've had a great upbringing, loving parents, and yeah, my job career at that time had not been great, but other than that, lived an absolutely, you know, perfectly fine life, never struggled or anything like that.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt that way.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I needed to do something to change the way I felt.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think at that time I hadn't, I think I'd done R05, I'd done R01, and I'd done the mortgage uh CF6.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I couldn't quite see the light at the end of the tunnel at that point either.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of preying on my mind.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just a case of right to step back from work, just focus on exams, and then I hammered out two, three, four, and six in the space of like three months, and it just kind of got me focused, got my head on straight.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it was still it still was still there in the background in the first year because I again didn't have that trajectory of what I needed uh and the structure I needed for me personally to kind of understand this is my career path.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_01: But that's all in place now, and that's kind of what I've sat down with Phil and structured my work around and with St.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_01: James's place.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one of the, I don't know what you call them, one of the trainers or compliance people that I worked with uh called Nicola was fantastic the whole way through.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And she was picking up on these elements and she was kind of ensuring that I was okay as an individual, not oh, you should be doing this, you should be doing that, this is what this expects you.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_01: She was very human about it, which was which was absolutely great.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so like she's like an absolute asset.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And once I kind of got through that and I'm at the point where I'm at now, you know, I'm stronger than I've ever been.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And whilst those mental scars will always be there, it's you know, it's a sign of growth for me now that I can work with people and I can sit down with people.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the amount of people I've kind of sat down with and said, look, it should be open.
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there's been some clients that said, like, well, actually, yeah, I felt like taking my life a few years ago, and I'm kind of all right, well, I wasn't expecting that.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_01: But they also appreciate that someone has not that someone's gone through it, but someone is willing to listen.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it does tend to come from the male side of things.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Not saying that women don't have crises themselves.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think they can handle it much better than men can.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to say that under the age of 45, the biggest killer for men in the UK is suicide, is insane.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's insane to think that we kill ourselves more than cancer does.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's definitely something that especially entering an industry like this where there's gonna be pressure.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's employees self-employed, there's gonna be pressure at the start.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why ensuring you have your family support network, that's one thing, but having a peer group support network is just as important.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of forgot about that this year and the back end of last year, and I kind of thought I don't really need other people telling me that I'm doing things wrong or anything like that.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't but it wasn't even for that, it was just to sit with people like-minded to discuss things and see that you're not the only one feeling maybe a bit down in the dumps that way, and this, that, and the other.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was definitely a challenging time.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mind I don't mind talking about it because I kind of feel that if I talk about it, other people might think oh I could talk about it as well.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think getting even just little bits off your chest can lead to so much relief at the end of the day, and I think that's what we need.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think we put a little bit too much stress and pressure on ourselves, and a lot of it is self-induced.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_01: There is external forces, but a lot of it seems to come from ourselves, yeah, these conversations with people, and even yourself, you kind of think actually a lot of this I've done to myself I've done to myself and overthought and just put pressure on me that wasn't even there.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, the amount of times Jen, my wife was just like, You're doing this to yourself.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, ready to throttle me about it.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, she was my pillar of strength throughout all of it.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_01: So just what is what it is, I think, at the end of the day, but here at the other side, thankfully.
• 1:22:41
  SPEAKER_00: You come out the other side, exactly, and you have a story to tell and something that's relatable to anybody else that might well be listening to this.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also it helps you in your job as well.
• 1:22:52
  SPEAKER_00: As you said, you know, some clients will uh pick up on that because you've got that empathetic ear.
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the most powerful things I think we can do as men is to uh share how we're feeling, uh, but also to shut up and listen.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Listening and talking are two of the most powerful things that we can do because we need to be able to identify how we're feeling with another man.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that it's not a weakness to feel the to feel down, it's not a weakness to feel anxious, it's not a weakness to feel stressed, it's not a weakness to compare and despair.
• 1:23:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not a weakness, it's not a weakness to have these types of things.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's how we are at that point in time.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very, very real when it's in your head, isn't it?
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very scary, real place because you don't quite know how you're uh how you're going to get out of it, you know?
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um you can absolutely see why men get into the situation where they think it's a good idea to take their own life because they feel so worthless, because they feel less than a man.
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_00: They feel like, why am I not living up to my expectations of what a man should be?
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we put ourselves down, we put ourselves down.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that internal voice your wife picked up on.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_00: We do it to ourselves, we put ourselves down.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_00: One of the most powerful things that I ever did.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Two things, right?
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_00: One was it's okay to not be okay.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Someone else told me that.
• 1:24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, two, sharing how I felt with somebody else.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't alone.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And when I did that, I felt incredible weight lifted off my shoulders.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Mine was wrapped up also in addiction.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to kind of go and join a 12-step process and all of that.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that was hugely powerful, hugely powerful for me.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Secondly, was um getting the old mirror out and taking the look at myself.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_00: What am I, you know, what things am I doing to myself that I'm responsible for.
• 1:24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that was the self um talk, how it was talking to myself.
• 1:24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when I identified with the voice in my head, when I identified with that voice, what it looked like, the language that used, it was a really horrible voice.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like I was carrying around somebody that was constantly putting me down and telling me I wasn't good enough.
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And when I identified that, I thought, I've been carrying that voice around me 24-7 for all these years.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_00: No wonder I feel less than.
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a lot of work on identifying that voice, listening to that voice and changing the tone and the language.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I created a character.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_00: I almost had it when I identified it as almost like this ill golem type version of myself, like a shy, ill golem type little boy, you know, that was scared and all of that.
• 1:25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started talking loving and kind to this voice.
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then the voice started talking loving and kind back to me, and I meditated on it.
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And now I turn to it and I have a deeper, loving, kinder relationship with myself.
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the Gollum-esque character comes back.
• 1:25:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I know now that I need to pause, I need to stop, I need to share with somebody, I need to get some perspective on how I'm thinking, and I need to meditate and I need to build a relationship again with myself that's loving and that's kind.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And when I start to do that, the brain remembers, the brain feels what it's told.
• 1:26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you start to feel calmer and more self-assured and reassured.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's lots of things that we can do as men and women to be able to manage our own mental health.
• 1:26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just some of the things that I learned, you know.
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's not as simple as like go and meditate, go and go and run, go and run, go to the gym and all of that.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's something going on, and um, and one of the most powerful things is just share it with somebody who understands.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Don't go to your mate who's bound to turn around and tell you you're a pussy and to snap out of it because that's the thing you want.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Go to a group such as Talk Club, where there are men there who've gone through it, however, whatever the level of their depression, anxiety, it's not a bloody competition, but the one thing is that people can relate to that feeling of vulnerability and that feeling of it's never going to end, when's it gonna end?
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as you share it and you bring it out of your head and it gains perspective, because other other people look at it and and you hear other people's stories as well, then you're like, wow, like Jesus, I'm not alone here.
• 1:27:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of the healing process.
• 1:27:19
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely is.
• 1:27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the more people I've kind of spoke to about it, like I say, I'm surprised at the amount of people that kind of turn around and say, Well, I've felt kind of similar myself and had my own kind of um you know episodes.
• 1:27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's comforting in some respects, but it's also very sad in others that we have to go through something so ugly to fully realize and appreciate the mental health side of things.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I think there's probably a lot of people out there that have had episodes that still probably don't want to admit it just because of the old perceived stigma of what mental health was.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, obviously there's some countries that just don't even condone mental health at all.
• 1:27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um We're in a very open, very open country that embraces it, which is which is good.
• 1:28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's only been the last five, six years where it's kind of came to the forefront of people's minds.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's been very, very quick to transition, but a good one.
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_01: A very good one.
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you feel better for it, right?
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, before, um, I mean, some of the stuff's missing from behind me, but because we're in the process of a move.
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when you mentioned Gollum, I've got a massive Middle Earth map up there.
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I've got um um Andoril Flame of the West up in the loft, an 84-inch replica sword and stuff.
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm I'm big on those kind of things.
• 1:28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it was you'll notice on my LinkedIn profile, it says like financial planner, and then it says, you know, anime and gaming enthusiast.
• 1:28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd never have put that up there uh years ago because of how I would have been, I don't know, I felt I would have been attacked or seen because of it's a bit different than the norm.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I think now I embrace more fully the individual side of who I am.
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um I like those things I have done for years.
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I used to swim for Middlesbrough when I was younger.
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it would be morning swimming, school, swimming at night every single day, swimming at the weekend.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you didn't really go out and mess around with your mates and stuff like that.
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I would watch TV, I'd watch anime, and I'd watch and I'd play on computer games.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was what I did for years and years and years, and ends up very much the lifestyle I still lead now.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I put that up there because it was actually kind of empowering to kind of put it out there.
• 1:29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I did actually get quite a lot of people kind of mentioned saying, like, ah, it's it's nice to see.
• 1:29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, yeah, it was just like that acceptance and validation behind it.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not that I was seeking that, but it was nice that a lot of people just kind of said, Oh, well, that's interesting.
• 1:29:55
  SPEAKER_01: We would never have known that about you.
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_00: If anything, right, I think run with it because there are huge A, there's a huge amount of money in gaming.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:30:07
  SPEAKER_00: But not good enough to tap into any of it, but But you you and your brand, right?
• 1:30:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about like one day running your own business.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's no financial advisor out there that talks about gaming.
• 1:30:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's no financial advisor that talks about anime and those typical types of things, but there's plenty of people out there that love it.
• 1:30:25
  SPEAKER_00: My brother's, you know, quite a uh successful individual, and he's 42 years old, and he sits down playing computer games.
• 1:30:32
  SPEAKER_00: He loves playing computer games, playing online and all of that type of thing.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's plenty of people out there that would relate to you, and they would relate to you because of the things that you're interested in.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody's going to relate to you.
• 1:30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 1:30:45
  SPEAKER_00: At least you're being authentic, at least you're being your true self.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if you try to, if you try to promote, if you promote that in within who you are, within the financial planning profession, I guarantee you you will attract the right clients because they'll be like, oh yeah, he loves gaming like I do.
• 1:31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 1:31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have a conversation with him.
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And there could be something around that, how you promote yourself in your personal brand.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it you can kind of align then your passion of what you love with the the job that you do.
• 1:31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think authentic, and and I'm, you know, being authentic is a is is a must, you know.
• 1:31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And like some of the things that I've opened up to on my podcast about my mental health, addiction, stuff like that.
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_00: I do it because that's me.
• 1:31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't care if someone thinks, well, what a weirdo.
• 1:31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just think, well, that's me, because there's plenty of people that contact me and say, Thank you very much for sharing that, because you you sharing that has helped me re establish that I need to sort myself out.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that's what it is.
• 1:31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's been a lot for a long time for not not I'm not trying to say it from a male point of view, I'm just saying from an every point of view that there's a certain expectation of what life should look like and the way life should go and this, that, and the other.
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad those walls have are being broken down very, very quickly, uh, which is great because people need to just embrace what they like, who they like, and how they do it.
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't bother me what people want to be doing.
• 1:32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't see how I bother people liking the stuff I like.
• 1:32:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the ideal client in the future would be someone who sits down and goes, Oh god, yeah, I remember playing X XYZ years ago and stuff and you know, anime and films and this, that, and the other, because I was big into films and the comic universe and all those kind of things.
• 1:32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to sit down with people like that who, you know, want to also expand their financial education and advice because it becomes it it's less transactional, isn't it?
• 1:32:37
  SPEAKER_01: At that point, it's it's more very friendly.
• 1:32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And who out there is doing that?
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if you look at the things like piggy bank marketing, right?
• 1:32:45
  SPEAKER_00: The idea is to be a key person of influence within a space, right?
• 1:32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_00: So could you be the key person of influence within the gaming community around financial education and financial advice?
• 1:32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh is there somebody out there that wears that hat?
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because if there isn't, uh there's a slot there for you uh ready to step into.
• 1:33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then you become the key person of influence when it comes to anything advice-based.
• 1:33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you can follow people on YouTube, you can comment on YouTube things, you can and I'm the financial advisor to the gaming community, you know, and people just absolutely love that type of thing.
• 1:33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it will open up so many opportunities for you to talk within those sub-communities because a lot of gamers are also very much into their Reddit and communities online.
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you can then become part of their communities and become that key person of an influ influence within that space.
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll find that uh it will probably open up huge opportunities for you because who's doing it uh in a on a competitive sense with you?
• 1:33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Same the same as some of the boys that I talk to and girls that um are ex-professional football players and they're working you know in that space trying to give advice to footballers.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't look at e get e-gaming, for instance?
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_00: E-gaming is huge, money in e-gaming is massive.
• 1:33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like who's giving them financial advice, these young people who sit there day in, day out playing their computer games?
• 1:33:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, who's talking to them about financial well-being?
• 1:34:01
  SPEAKER_00: No one.
• 1:34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, exactly.
• 1:34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's the same across most industries, isn't it?
• 1:34:07
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, the the esports kind of side of things now is so prevalent.
• 1:34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's only came about there's the certain tournaments I've followed for years that have doled out big sums of money, but it's become more mainstream now, which is good because it's released that stigma.
• 1:34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Games can kill people and all those kind of things.
• 1:34:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like there's never really any tangible research that someone playing Call of Duty led to a killing spree and things, but there was a stigma that playing games is bad, whereas now it's well, actually, it's a viable career.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can make a YouTube or Twitch channel out of it, and some of them make a hell of a lot of money on a monthly basis.
• 1:34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like some make millions a year doing all they do play games.
• 1:34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's a viable.
• 1:34:51
  SPEAKER_00: They love Twitch, they love podcasts, they love YouTube.
• 1:34:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's loads of people that are out there talking all the time.
• 1:34:56
  SPEAKER_00: The amount of podcasts and things that you'll be able to go on to promote your services, let alone your brand.
• 1:35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, God, if I was a financial advisor and specifically targeted people from like the gaming community, I'd have like an eight-bit kind of marketing style.
• 1:35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like the old I'd create content that made me that kind of bit of fun.
• 1:35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, I just I think you play with that.
• 1:35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I like about financial planning as well, right?
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to end on this actually, because we're sort of gassing away now.
• 1:35:22
  SPEAKER_00: But what I love about financial planning is that it's in its infancy, although it's been around for some time, financial planning in its situation it is now, is really in its infancy and it's in a kind of startup phase.
• 1:35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Over the next few years, yes, there's lots of advisors leaving the profession, but there's a huge gap that needs to be filled by entrepreneurial, younger, more authentic, more modern thinkers.
• 1:35:45
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to change, it needs to evolve the profession.
• 1:35:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it lends itself to those creative thinkers.
• 1:35:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I love about the profession.
• 1:35:53
  SPEAKER_00: You could come in as a financial planner, and the ease of marketing now, the ease of social media, how to get yourself out there on podcasts, YouTubes, videos, all that typical type of stuff.
• 1:36:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can really reinvent this profession.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can really establish yourself as not just like, I'm an advisor, but actually I'm also a thought leader within what you love.
• 1:36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you can find that niche and get into it.
• 1:36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And anybody listening to this, it's like don't just think about, well, I want to be a financial planner because I want to make money.
• 1:36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Think about, well, who do I like?
• 1:36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Who do I like talking to?
• 1:36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Who I enjoy talking to because they're customers, potential clients.
• 1:36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, become an expert, but be the key person of influence within their sphere.
• 1:36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Who's giving that profession?
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Who's giving that community um financial advice?
• 1:36:39
  SPEAKER_00: If nobody is, my God, it's huge.
• 1:36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do some research after this and find out who's giving financial advice to the gaming community.
• 1:36:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if you find anybody.
• 1:36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll definitely, I'll definitely, I mean, look, it is something that I am, especially towards the end of this year, as my focus for next year to build up my own client base, because I can't just rely on Phil forever, uh, was to go down those those channels along with the traditional ones as well, uh, because I do a lot of financial education.
• 1:37:06
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, those two channels, because it is ultimately where I would like to have a client base.
• 1:37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I actually just noticed that the the line at the back of the maroon kind of cuts perfectly with my hair.
• 1:37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Noticed that just just now, and that's that's not blending away into the background, but it's just with the way I'm sitting.
• 1:37:25
  SPEAKER_00: So just noticed that just now.
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Never mind.
• 1:37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:37:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we've covered so much, Chris.
• 1:37:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you've definitely lived at the name to the name of being a financial well-being planner.
• 1:37:37
  SPEAKER_00: You've been very open and very uh kind with your experience today.
• 1:37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for talking about your personal experiences as well.
• 1:37:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think anybody that can come on my podcast and share the highs and the lows um and the recovery that comes from it as well is um is great in my eyes and will only help inspire others to live a best life that they can live and to be genuinely honest with themselves.
• 1:37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, Chris, it's been an absolute pleasure.
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll get this podcast out soon.
• 1:38:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, good luck with your career, because it's only just beginning.
• 1:38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, thank you.
• 1:38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I really appreciate the opportunity coming on.
• 1:38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I guess just to sign off with from myself, if anyone is kind of just wanting just to drop a message or a chat or anything, it'll be on LinkedIn somewhere.
• 1:38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'll comment.
• 1:38:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm always happy to speak to anyone, really, especially new entrants coming in because it can be tough.
• 1:38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had a few people contact me before, and I'm happy to lend my time in that kind of capacity because it helps me at the same time as well.
• 1:38:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a mutual, a mutual relationship.
• 1:38:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's just for anyone if they wanna if they want to get in touch.
• 1:38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 1:38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Nice one, Chris.
• 1:38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Have a great day.
• 1:38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Cheers.
• 1:38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you too.