Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Sex, Lies, Video: Max Factor Makeup Heir Walks Free After 86 Sex Attacks

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Sex, Lies, Video: Max Factor Makeup Heir Walks Free After 86 Sex Attacks · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Sex Lies Video. Tonight, the Max Factor makeup heir walks free,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: walks free, and living in a residential area after 86 known,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: 86 known violent sex attacks. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: being with us.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Andrew Stewart Luster, the Max Factor cosmetics heir, convicted of
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  Speaker 2: drugging and sexually assaulting multiple women in the 90s. Luster
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  Speaker 2: drugs women with GHB, sexually assaults them at his Muscle
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Shoals beach house, and videotapes the attacks. Now, Luster is out.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, they're in a coma. They're snoring. They're lifeless.
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  Speaker 3: He has to pick up and reposition their limbs. And
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Not only does he sexually assault these women with no
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  Speaker 3: obvious signs of remorse, it's a stunning portrayal of a
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  Speaker 3: sexual predator live on tape.
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  Speaker 4: I'd heard about the tapes. I wanted to watch them.
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  Speaker 1: I did watch them.
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  Speaker 4: And as soon as I watched them, I knew no
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  Speaker 4: defense attorney could ever beat this case because the evidence
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: was absolutely sickeningly overwhelming.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: That from my longtime friend, Dominic Dunn's Power, Privilege, and
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  Speaker 1: Justice from KCLU and from the 101 podcast. Who is
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Andrew Luster? He is a multimillionaire cosmetic heir.
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  Speaker 5: No job.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: He lived off his trust fund. He liked to go surfing.
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  Speaker 5: Oh, wait.
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  Speaker 1: He did have one job, as I recall.
• 2:00
  Speaker 6: He had a production company called Deep Six Films, which
• 2:04
  Speaker 6: was soft porn, soft porn films.
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  Speaker 7: His most famous one was Waves and Babes, which was
• 2:11
  Speaker 7: a surf video combined with girls frolicking down the beach
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  Speaker 7: in their bikinis.
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  Speaker 1: That's from Discovery's Guilty Rich. I'm sure you saw his name,
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  Speaker 1: Andrew Luster, as the executive producer of that film. Forget
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: about that. Forget about the soft porn. He is walking
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  Speaker 1: free tonight after 86 known violent sex offenses.
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  Speaker 8: I just remember looking up at his ceiling and that
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  Speaker 8: is the last thing that I remember. And the next
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  Speaker 8: thing that I remember, it.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Was morning.
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  Speaker 8: And I open my eyes and I'm in a room
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  Speaker 8: that was unfamiliar to me.
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  Speaker 9: I'm in a bed.
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  Speaker 8: I have all my clothes on, even my pantyhose are
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  Speaker 8: still on.
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  Speaker 1: So everything was intact.
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  Speaker 8: If he hadn't have recorded his crimes, nobody would know
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  Speaker 8: what he's done. Even though it's kind of a blessing
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  Speaker 8: in a way that I don't remember, to find out
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  Speaker 8: about it years later, it doesn't really lessen the blow.
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  Speaker 1: How many sex assault victims have I represented It changes
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  Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. They go on, of course,
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  Speaker 1: they soldier on, but they're never the same. It's never
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: the same. That world is over. And you can never
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  Speaker 1: go back as much as you want to, to the
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  Speaker 1: way your life was before it was shattered by violent crime.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: That's from Discovery's Evil Lives Here. And that was attack victim,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Tonya Baldwin speaking. With me, an all-star panel to make
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  Speaker 1: sense of what we know tonight. Why is this guy
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  Speaker 1: walking free? How has this happened? And I'm sure the
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  Speaker 1: good people of Glendora, California had no idea he's living
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  Speaker 1: right down the street. Again, with me, an all-star panel.
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  Speaker 1: But first, I want to go to a very special
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: guest joining us. It's Barbara Kelly Hicks. Very often when
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  Speaker 1: Sex attack victims do not want their name or their
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  Speaker 1: likeness out there, and we honor that. Somehow, with almost
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  Speaker 1: every sex attack victim I've ever represented, they somehow think
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  Speaker 1: it's their fault. And Barbara is speaking out with her
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  Speaker 1: real name and her likeness tonight. Barbara, thank you for
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  Speaker 1: being with us.
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  Speaker 9: Thank you for having me.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: You know, I hate when people ask me about my
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: fiance's murder if I'm not prepared for it. It just
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  Speaker 1: like is like cold water in my face. I don't
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  Speaker 1: know why. I'm not a shrink. But I know it's
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  Speaker 1: difficult to recount what happened. But I want other victims
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  Speaker 1: out there to see you and hear you. So please
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  Speaker 1: tell us about what happened with the defendant now walking free.
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  Speaker 1: Andrew Luster.
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  Speaker 10: Well, um, I was set up on a date with
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  Speaker 10: Andrew Luster by, um, his neighbor, a nurse that I
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  Speaker 10: worked with in Santa Barbara. He kept telling her he
• 5:35
  Speaker 10: wanted to meet a Barbie doll with brains. Um, so
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  Speaker 10: she had a Halloween party and I went down and
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  Speaker 10: helped her set it up. And he came by and
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  Speaker 10: we both got to see each other and he looked
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  Speaker 10: really cute. Um, Then during the party, he came down
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  Speaker 10: and he asked if I wanted to see his house.
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  Speaker 10: And we went back and he made me a drink.
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  Speaker 9: And then.
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  Speaker 10: The rest are just clippets of memories that I have.
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  Speaker 10: I remember a hot tub getting in with my shoes on,
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  Speaker 10: not understanding. He put me on the phone with a
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  Speaker 10: friend named Mike. And he kept saying, Mike, I found
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  Speaker 10: the one. which I never understood in my mind. I
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  Speaker 10: thought he was, he found the girl of his dreams
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  Speaker 10: or something. And then I have a memory of a
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  Speaker 10: shower and falling and trying to understand what happened to me.
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  Speaker 9: And then I woke up the next morning and that
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  Speaker 9: was it.
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  Speaker 1: You remember getting into his hot tub with your shoes on?
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  Speaker 9: And I couldn't understand.
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  Speaker 1: So obviously at that time you were already out of it.
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  Speaker 9: Yeah, very much.
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  Speaker 1: Do you remember anything about the sex attack?
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  Speaker 9: Not anything. I remember nothing. But I know whatever it was,
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  Speaker 9: it was heinous.
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  Speaker 1: The next morning when you walked to your car, did
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  Speaker 1: you go to the bathroom first? Did you notice whether
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  Speaker 1: your clothes were on correctly?
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  Speaker 10: I honestly don't remember. The only thing I remember is
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  Speaker 10: I had the most incredible headache and I didn't understand
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  Speaker 10: why because I didn't drink much. It was my first
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  Speaker 10: work party. So it was your first work party with
• 7:29
  Speaker 10: the hospital.
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  Speaker 1: I was at. What were you doing at the hospital?
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  Speaker 9: I worked as a scrub in the OR.
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  Speaker 1: When did you learn you had been sex attacked?
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  Speaker 10: It kind of comes in pieces that when I was
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  Speaker 10: called to come down and bring a picture of myself,
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  Speaker 10: when they found my number in his book, but nothing
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  Speaker 10: was really said. And then next thing I know, I
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  Speaker 10: was subpoenaed as a witness. And then I started putting
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  Speaker 10: the pieces of the puzzle together.
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  Speaker 1: When did you finally, as you say, put the pieces
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  Speaker 1: of the puzzle together? What did you learn about what
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  Speaker 1: happened to you?
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  Speaker 10: The reality is I only found out the, everything is
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  Speaker 10: when Tanya Baldwin and I met in, um, May of 24,
• 8:18
  Speaker 10: we met and then we met for coffee and compared
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  Speaker 10: stories and mine were exactly the same. And I even
• 8:27
  Speaker 10: had more memories of certain things than she did regarding
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  Speaker 10: this guy, Mike.
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  Speaker 9: And that's when the severity.
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  Speaker 10: Really, really came to me of what happened to me. I,
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  Speaker 10: you know, the torture, um, Whatever he did was horrible,
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  Speaker 10: and I got.
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  Speaker 9: Very sick afterwards and had 14 eye surgeries.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: You had Graves' disease, don't you?
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  Speaker 11: Correct.
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  Speaker 9: Correct.
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  Speaker 1: All of the survivors that you know of know he
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: has walked free. Is that correct?
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  Speaker 9: As far as I know, yes, ma'am.
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  Speaker 1: What did you think when you learned Luster is free?
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  Speaker 10: I was horrified, angry, but I was glad I left
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  Speaker 10: the state so I would never have to be in
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  Speaker 10: that state again and worry.
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  Speaker 1: I remember, Barbara, I had been on air at Court TV.
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  Speaker 1: I came off the air. I went to my office.
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  Speaker 1: I sat down at my desk. I clicked email. The
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  Speaker 1: first email, the the subject said, Nancy, is there a
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  Speaker 1: viewer that I would, you know, write back and forth?
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  Speaker 1: Did you know your fiance's killer is free? I had
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  Speaker 1: no idea. And I remember I sat there and I
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  Speaker 1: looked out the window at 3rd Avenue and traffic was
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  Speaker 1: whizzing by and it felt like completely surreal I can't
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  Speaker 1: really even describe it but when you learn Luster is
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  Speaker 1: free he's not gonna be free he is free I
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  Speaker 1: mean it had to hit you like a ton of bricks.
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  Speaker 9: It opened up a lot of wounds, fear, anger.
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  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
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  Speaker 9: You kind of relive it.
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  Speaker 10: You relive the helplessness. You relive the betrayal from the
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  Speaker 10: court system. You relive the pain in trying to put
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  Speaker 10: your life back together.
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  Speaker 1: You know, Barbara, after representing so many child molestation victims
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  Speaker 1: and sex attack victims, it's not always the physical component
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  Speaker 1: of the attack because you heal. You heal physically. It's
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  Speaker 1: that feeling of hopelessness that never really goes away. How
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  Speaker 1: has this changed your life, Barbara?
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  Speaker 10: If you add about five hours, um, it traumatized me. I,
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  Speaker 10: it changed my life in ways I never understood. Um,
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  Speaker 10: the dynamics of our family was horrible. I didn't know
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  Speaker 10: I had PTSD from being raped and I had a
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  Speaker 10: lot of rage and anger and screaming.
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  Speaker 9: Um, I moved.
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  Speaker 10: I didn't feel protected by the state of California, so
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  Speaker 10: I moved out of state. And we're starting our lives over.
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  Speaker 10: It's very challenging to look for work. But I knew
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  Speaker 10: mentally I wouldn't be strong enough to live in a
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  Speaker 10: state where he is free.
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  Speaker 1: You know, when you say rage and anger, I get
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  Speaker 1: asked that all the time. Why don't you smile? Why
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  Speaker 1: are you so angry? I don't know why. I can't
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  Speaker 1: explain it. But I'm wondering if this whole chapter for
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  Speaker 1: you is going to kick off a whole new series
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  Speaker 1: of anger, feelings, hopelessness, helplessness. I'm worried about that for you.
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  Speaker 10: Well, I'm working real hard, Nancy, on healing. And my
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  Speaker 10: whole goal is to become an advocate to help others.
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  Speaker 10: and let them know rape and trauma isn't a life
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  Speaker 10: sentence and you can recover from it. I work hard
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  Speaker 10: really every day to be a better wife.
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  Speaker 9: And a mother.
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  Speaker 10: It is challenging because it's brought up so many old emotions,
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  Speaker 10: but I believe in myself and my strength and I'm
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  Speaker 10: choosing not to live in fear.
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  Speaker 9: But I am angry.
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  Speaker 1: I believe in your strength, too. The fact that you
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  Speaker 1: are speaking tonight openly, you have no idea how many
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  Speaker 1: sex attack victims. And beyond that, violent crime victims, whether
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  Speaker 1: it be a sex attack, an aggravated assault, you're speaking
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  Speaker 1: to them tonight. And they are hearing you, Barbara. I
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  Speaker 1: want to go straight out to Rachel Bowman joining us.
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  Speaker 1: She's a U.S. senior news reporter with Daily Mail. What
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: in the H-E-double-L? Why is Luster out?
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  Speaker 12: The California Department of Corrections noted that this is a full,
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  Speaker 12: proper release. And they cited laws such as Proposition 57,
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  Speaker 12: which allowed certain offenders to gain credit for time served.
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  Speaker 12: So this is a full, proper release. He was sentenced
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  Speaker 12: to 50 years. Initially, it was 124. But a judge
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  Speaker 12: overturned that in 2013 and gave him 50 years, and
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  Speaker 12: then he earned credit for this release.
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  Speaker 1: Joining us tonight is a very special guest with fixed
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  Speaker 1: opinions regarding the release of serial sex attacker and multimillionaire
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  Speaker 1: makeup heir, Andrew Luster. It is Mayor of Glendora, California,
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  Speaker 1: David Friedendahl. Mayor, thank you for being with us tonight.
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  Speaker 13: Thank you very much for this opportunity.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the honor is all mine because I have read
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: about your opinions regarding Luster walking free. First of all,
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  Speaker 1: how do you think that makes violent sex assault victims
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  Speaker 1: feel to see him walking down the street?
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  Speaker 13: Well, it's certainly not going to give them any comfort
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  Speaker 13: level at all, and they're going to feel that, as
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  Speaker 13: many of us in California do anymore, that crime has
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  Speaker 13: no consequences.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at Luster right now. I've also
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  Speaker 1: looked into his employment history. You know, when most people
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  Speaker 1: get out of prison, they have to have a plan.
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  Speaker 1: They submit a plan where they're going to live, where
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  Speaker 1: they're going to work, how they're going to get through
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  Speaker 1: in life so they don't re-offend or fall back in
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  Speaker 1: their own ways, which recidivism is highly likely. Statistically, I've
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: always got hope, Mayor. I've always got hope that someone
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: will seek a new life. But the recidivism rates are overwhelming.
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  Speaker 1: And when you are a violent sex attacker... There's something
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  Speaker 1: in your genes. I truly believe this. That's who you are.
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  Speaker 1: It's in your DNA. And I fear he's going to re-offend.
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  Speaker 1: But what I was saying there is he's going to
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  Speaker 1: be walking up and down your sidewalks. And if you
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: look at a horse when you don't know what a
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  Speaker 1: horse is going to do, look at his track record.
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  Speaker 1: Never had a traditional job. Lived off his trust fund,
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  Speaker 1: multi-million dollar trust fund. Never. He dropped out of college
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  Speaker 1: before getting a degree. He spent most of his time surfing. So, again,
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  Speaker 1: if you don't know what someone's going to do, you
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  Speaker 1: look at what they've already done. What do you think
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  Speaker 1: about him milling around on the corner in your town
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  Speaker 1: of Glendora?
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  Speaker 13: Well, our largest concern is the fact that Not so
• 16:58
  Speaker 13: much who the celebrity is of this, but rather the
• 17:01
  Speaker 13: whole issue of released sex offenders and the system not
• 17:07
  Speaker 13: alerting the neighborhood. So we're not sure. And we would
• 17:12
  Speaker 13: hope the recidivism doesn't return and that it doesn't reoccur.
• 17:17
  Speaker 13: But how do we know? And the neighborhood around it
• 17:20
  Speaker 13: is very alarmed and certainly going to say, why us?
• 17:25
  Speaker 13: And frankly, we ask those similar questions. Why us? And
• 17:30
  Speaker 13: the fact that it's a celebrity just enhances it. However,
• 17:33
  Speaker 13: it could be any released sex offender or violent crime
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  Speaker 13: committer into a theoretically quiet neighborhood. And certainly without having
• 17:46
  Speaker 13: any notice of it, it's quite alarming.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: To which neighborhood, Mayor, is he going?
• 17:54
  Speaker 13: Well, we have 19 square miles, 10 square miles of
• 17:59
  Speaker 13: it habitable because nine of it are enjoying the national
• 18:03
  Speaker 13: forest to our north. But the neighborhood is very typical
• 18:08
  Speaker 13: of all neighborhoods in Glendora, and it's peaceful and residential.
• 18:13
  Speaker 13: It looks nice. It's neither impressive or unimpressive. It's a
• 18:19
  Speaker 13: very typical Glendora neighborhood.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I've been through Glendora. And, you know, compared to where
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I came from, it's very upscale. It's lovely. Regardless of
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: the price of the houses, who wants a convicted sex
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: offender living down the street from your little girls or
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: your teen girl? Oh, you know what? I'm going to
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: have to correct myself, Mayor, because Luster did have one
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: job that I know of.
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: He had a production company called Deep Six Films, which
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: was soft porn, soft porn films.
• 18:58
  Speaker 7: His most famous one was Waves and Babes, which was
• 19:01
  Speaker 7: a surf video combined with girls frolicking down the beach
• 19:07
  Speaker 7: in their bikinis.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know what he's talking about because those girls
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: clearly did not have on bottoms. That's from Discovery's Guilty Rich.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: So he did have one job. It was... a porn job.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: He produced soft porn. Sorry, Luster. That said, back to
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the issue at hand. Here's my concern. Mayor, I'm just
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: a JD. I'm a trial lawyer. I'm not a shrink.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not an MD. But I know what I know. Mayor,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: when I would get a six attack case, I'd open
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: the file, preparing it for trial, of course.
• 19:49
  Speaker 14: And.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: There would be a rap sheet in there. And that
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: rap sheet very often would start with something like peeping
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Tom or unwanted touching, where one prosecutor after the next
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: would plead the case down. Then it turned into full-on
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: violent sex attacks. And I would think, why is this
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: guy out walking around? And I would try the case.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: He'd be convicted and put in jail for 20 to life.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: And then in no time at all, suddenly, he'd be
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: back in my courtroom. He would get out early and re-offend. Now,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: what does that mean to me? I saw it so
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: many times, Mayor. I'm convinced they can't stop themselves. Just
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: like I drink hot tea and cook supper every night.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: They can't stop themselves. It's their, I don't know if
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: it's habit. I don't know if it's frame of mind.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's in their DNA, Mayor. But
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: it's not just your problem because it could be on
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: your streets. It's my problem too. I've got a young
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: girl that just went to college and I got to
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: worry about somebody like Luster walking by.
• 21:08
  Speaker 13: Those are certainly the cases that we all get to
• 21:11
  Speaker 13: experience when any sexual predator or convicted criminal comes to
• 21:17
  Speaker 13: your neighborhood is how do we keep that safe? And
• 21:22
  Speaker 13: our police department is committed to working within the letter
• 21:27
  Speaker 13: of the law and learning about the conditions of this
• 21:30
  Speaker 13: parole and working very hard to learn what those are.
• 21:35
  Speaker 13: so that we can ensure that it is being monitored
• 21:40
  Speaker 13: and adhered to.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, Mayor. Is there any way
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: to keep him out of that neighborhood? I have exhausted
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: every avenue, and I can't think of a way to
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: keep him from coming to your hometown.
• 21:58
  Speaker 13: Well, we're learning that as well, and Some other challenges
• 22:03
  Speaker 13: in this particular case are that the terms of parole
• 22:07
  Speaker 13: are sealed. So we're still trying to learn what those
• 22:10
  Speaker 13: terms are. And based on that, we have to be
• 22:15
  Speaker 13: compliant with the law from our perspective, but we don't
• 22:19
  Speaker 13: know yet what those other options are. But our legal
• 22:23
  Speaker 13: counsel is advising that at this point, till we have
• 22:28
  Speaker 13: another case or an opportunity to press, We have to
• 22:33
  Speaker 13: accept it. But we will keep a very close eye
• 22:36
  Speaker 13: on it.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Mayor, what do you think about this Prop 57? Look,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I have had so many witnesses that I found in
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the jail or in the prison. Because who do you
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: think is going to testify against killers and dope lords
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: and rapists? Not nuns and priests and virgins, Mayor. You
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: find witnesses in the jail. And I became friends with
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: many of them. And I want them to improve their lives.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: I want them to take classes. I want them to
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: learn a trade or a job so they have a
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: better chance at succeeding and not reoffending when they get out.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: But this Prop 57 cuts down your prisoner jail time.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: If you take a class, oh yeah, I'd sign up
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: for a full load. I would take every class I
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: could take to get out of jail early enough That's how,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: that's the loophole that he is using, this Prop 57,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: which gives you an earlier release date if you take
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: a class.
• 23:44
  Speaker 13: Well, that's the case. And certainly our big press in
• 23:49
  Speaker 13: the city is that we have letters of opposition on
• 23:54
  Speaker 13: this particular proposition and other propositions that are moving to
• 24:00
  Speaker 13: reduce the criminality of infractions. We're not in favor of that.
• 24:07
  Speaker 13: And the cases that the state has passed that reduces
• 24:12
  Speaker 13: our police department's ability to process crime and to get
• 24:18
  Speaker 13: it adjudicated, get it even in front of a judge.
• 24:23
  Speaker 13: California's unfortunately moved in many areas that It decriminalizes criminal activities.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Hey, Mayor, I want to translate something you just said.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Of course, what you said was right. But you said
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: it reduces criminality. What does that mean? It makes certain
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: violent offenses not as serious. Just for instance, you get
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: 20 to life on a rape. Suddenly, it's not 20
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: to life. certain violent crimes are now going to be
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: treated more leniently. Their criminality is reduced. And I am
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: against that. As a crime victim and former felony prosecutor,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I've seen what violent crime does to people's lives if
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: they live. And there's another whole layer to this, Mayor.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: This dude is sneaky. He would slip GHB and or
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: other drugs to women that he was with It's not
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: like he got a lady walking down an alley, hit
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: her over the head, and raped her. It's more insidious
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: than that. He would drug women at bars or on dates.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: They wouldn't even know what had happened to them. The
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: victim stories are heartbreaking. Some of them didn't even know
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: what had happened until years later, and they were shown
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: the video of him narrating the sex attack. It's sick.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: And he's a chameleon.
• 26:00
  Speaker 13: Well, unfortunately, they get good at what they're doing. And
• 26:05
  Speaker 13: the victims are just that. And they remain victims for
• 26:10
  Speaker 13: the rest of their life. It's not right. And we
• 26:15
  Speaker 13: certainly don't want to encourage that activity or allow it
• 26:20
  Speaker 13: to come into our neighborhood or any surrounding neighborhood. Realizing, yes,
• 26:25
  Speaker 13: they need to go somewhere.
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they do need to go somewhere. Straight to hell
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: is what I advocate. But that said, here's another one
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: more thing for you to put in your stew here.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I have looked at so many sex attackers and I think,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: my stars, they're 60, they're 70, they're 75 years old
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: and they're still sex attacking. I don't get it. But
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: it seems that that desire never goes away. So you've
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: got your work cut out for you. Mayor David Friedendahl,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: mayor of Glendora, taking a stand against a convicted violent
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: sex attacker walking free in a Glendora neighborhood. I do
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: not envy your job. I do not envy it at all.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And I wish you good luck. Mayor, thank you for
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: being with us tonight.
• 27:23
  Speaker 13: Thank you, Nancy.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: With me is Rachel Bowman, U.S. Senior News Reporter, Daily Mail.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: You mentioned Prop 57. Okay, technical legal term, it sucks
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: because it says that you, if you take a class,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: a class behind bars, and you complete a program, you
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: get time off. I'd sign up for a full load.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: And that's what Luster did. He used his loophole created
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: by Proposition 57, and he worked it. Never worked a
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: day in his life, lived off his grandpa's money, and now?
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: gets education behind bars, and instead of that being a benefit,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: it let him out early. You know, Daryl Cohen is
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: joining me tonight, and the reason I'm going to him
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: is because he is a veteran trial lawyer. He is
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: now a defense attorney, but I know him as a
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: co-prosecutor with me, one of the most successful felony prosecutors
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: in the inner-city Atlanta jurisdiction. to ever walk the courthouse halls.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, I know you're dying to put on your
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: defense hat and tell me why this is all okay,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: but Daryl, I want you to answer a different question.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true when you would try rape cases, sex
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: attack cases, you open the folder and there you see
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: a rap sheet. It's very rarely a rapist first go
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: around with law enforcement. They can't help themselves. They repeat offend.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Be honest, Daryl. Isn't that true? I mean, it may
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: start with a peeping Tom or an unwanted touching or
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: a simple assault, simple battery. They're sex assaults and they
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: graduate to a full fledged sex attack. Isn't that true?
• 29:25
  Speaker 15: Nancy, you're correct. What we would do would be look
• 29:29
  Speaker 15: at the crime that the person was indicted for. We
• 29:32
  Speaker 15: would then immediately, without even looking at the facts, go
• 29:36
  Speaker 15: to his, it's always a his, rap sheet and see what,
• 29:40
  Speaker 15: if anything, was there. Once we saw that, we then
• 29:44
  Speaker 15: looked at the facts. But this is, you've got to
• 29:47
  Speaker 15: factor in a number of different things here. He has
• 29:50
  Speaker 15: spent years in prison. Is that enough? California thinks it
• 29:54
  Speaker 15: is based on Prop 57. Do I believe it is?
• 29:58
  Speaker 15: That has nothing to do with it. What it has
• 30:00
  Speaker 15: to do is what he did was horrendous. It is egregious.
• 30:05
  Speaker 15: There's nothing we can do to make it better for
• 30:08
  Speaker 15: the victims. But is it possible that in those years
• 30:13
  Speaker 15: he did attend school, he was actually punished? Nancy, when
• 30:16
  Speaker 15: you and I were prosecuting in the old days in Georgia—
• 30:20
  Speaker 15: After you were convicted of a life sentence for murder,
• 30:24
  Speaker 15: you were eligible in those days after seven years. Now,
• 30:29
  Speaker 15: if you serve 26 years, you're lucky. But everything changes.
• 30:34
  Speaker 15: Has he changed? Has this been enough of a punishment?
• 30:39
  Speaker 15: Has he awakened and realized?
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Daryl Cohen. Why don't we ask some
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: of the victims? Why don't we ask Barbara Kelly Hicks?
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Do you think It's time for him to get out
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: and walk free and a residential area. Do you think? Agree. Agree.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: And remember, he got sentenced to 124 years and some
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: judge in his her silver ivory tower. Let's cut that.
• 31:07
  Speaker 9: Why?
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Why did that happen to 50 years? Then he takes
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: all these classes behind bars, basket weaving, woodworking, public speaking, blah, blah, blah,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: and walks free. Okay, it's not just the violent sex attacks.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: He videos them. So I go down there.
• 31:28
  Speaker 8: When they looked at me, they just, it was like
• 31:30
  Speaker 8: they saw a ghost or something. And they said, would
• 31:33
  Speaker 8: you be able to identify yourself on a videotape?
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: We think we have a videotape with you on it.
• 31:40
  Speaker 8: I said, yeah, I guess. I mean, but there wouldn't be–
• 31:42
  Speaker 8: it just didn't– why would there be a videotape.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Or anything, you know?
• 31:47
  Speaker 8: It was me lying there on his bed wearing the
• 31:50
  Speaker 8: exact outfit that I wore that first night that I
• 31:54
  Speaker 8: met him. It was a black blouse and a black
• 31:59
  Speaker 8: long skirt. And in the video, my skirt was– pulled
• 32:06
  Speaker 8: up and they just had it on pause and just
• 32:09
  Speaker 8: asked me if I could identify myself.
• 32:12
  Speaker 11: They let me know that they've been looking for me
• 32:14
  Speaker 11: for a while. Um, they had a little picture of
• 32:18
  Speaker 11: a tattoo I had on my right hip out, um,
• 32:22
  Speaker 11: in the media to see if anyone could recognize me identifying, um,
• 32:25
  Speaker 11: my tattoo so they can identify a victim. They had
• 32:28
  Speaker 11: to show me a picture, uh, eight by 10 picture, um,
• 32:32
  Speaker 11: It was like a screen capture from video. The picture
• 32:35
  Speaker 11: is of me, and I look dead.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: That's from Discovery, Guilty Rich, and KCLU, the 101, and
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the Slippery podcast. Straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Renowned psychoanalyst. You can see her on Bravo, Hulu, host
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: of a hit new podcast, the Dr. Bethany Marshall podcast.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: And you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com.
• 32:59
  Speaker 16: Dr.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Bethany, the videos... Thank heaven for the videos or he
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: would never have been apprehended because you heard Barbara speaking.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: She had no recollection of what happened. Some of the many,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: many victims had vague recollections, but you can't get a
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: conviction on that. Then they go search his house and
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: they find a treasure trove. Tons of sex-related videos, including
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the sex attack victims. But I don't get it. Why
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: would you commit a violent sex attack and video it?
• 33:36
  Speaker 16: You video it, Nancy, because it's your moment of glory.
• 33:39
  Speaker 16: He's videotaping.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: It's his own private video. porn stash. That's what it is.
• 33:44
  Speaker 16: So he looks at these videos again and again for
• 33:47
  Speaker 16: masturbatory content. So if you think of, you know, Tanya
• 33:50
  Speaker 16: and Barbara and all these victims who have come forward,
• 33:53
  Speaker 16: not only is there the victimization of having been drugged, raped,
• 34:01
  Speaker 16: tortured sodomized in one of the tapes he put a
• 34:05
  Speaker 16: cannabis roll on the woman's private parts i mean he
• 34:08
  Speaker 16: just completely completely degraded.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Them i believe bethany dr bethany he put a joint
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: in her private parts and she did not know any
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: of that happened until they showed her the video.
• 34:26
  Speaker 16: And I think that it's not just that one-time trauma, Nancy,
• 34:31
  Speaker 16: but as you're pointing out, it's a trauma that reverberates
• 34:34
  Speaker 16: throughout the person's entire life, throughout their marriage, throughout the
• 34:38
  Speaker 16: legal system. There's the first rape, right? The rape with
• 34:41
  Speaker 16: Andrew Luster. And then there's the second rape, as we
• 34:44
  Speaker 16: call it.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: That's the rape of.
• 34:45
  Speaker 16: Going through the judicial system where you're not believed and
• 34:48
  Speaker 16: you're criticized and you have to tell your story again
• 34:52
  Speaker 16: and again. But you know, Nancy, there's yet a third
• 34:55
  Speaker 16: rape and that is all the times he uses this
• 34:58
  Speaker 16: film as masturbatory material. It's like he's raping them again
• 35:03
  Speaker 16: and again. It's like women whose identities are stolen and,
• 35:07
  Speaker 16: you know, there are naked pictures all over the internet
• 35:09
  Speaker 16: for anybody to see. There's a sense of re-traumatization, re-victimization
• 35:15
  Speaker 16: in And Nancy, seeing yourself out and drugged, that idea
• 35:19
  Speaker 16: of being so helpless with this perpetrator on top of you,
• 35:23
  Speaker 16: that's going to reside in the person's unconscious cellular memory.
• 35:29
  Speaker 16: It never, never goes away.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: After the treasure trove of Andrew Luster, the multimillionaire makeup heir,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: found in his home, A defense that was actually asserted,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I know Daryl Cohen, don't get any ideas from this
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: defense because it didn't work, was that all these videos
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: were actually consensual and they were part of his porn business.
• 36:01
  Speaker 17: Well, he was an aspiring porn producer. The question was
• 36:04
  Speaker 17: whether this was pornography or rape. There is an entire
• 36:07
  Speaker 17: genre of pornography that deals with women who pretend to
• 36:11
  Speaker 17: be unconscious and very convincingly.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: You could no more watch those tapes and think that
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: it was an amateur porn shoot than you could watch
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: the Twin Towers coming down and think that it was
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: a Hollywood special effect.
• 36:20
  Speaker 8: For me to be up there with my rape being
• 36:25
  Speaker 8: shown in front of everybody, um, I actually threw up
• 36:29
  Speaker 8: because it was so emotional for me. I feel like
• 36:34
  Speaker 8: that was the hardest part of it. They did have
• 36:37
  Speaker 8: my husband leave the courtroom. He's never seen any of
• 36:40
  Speaker 8: the tapes. I would never want him to see that.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I recall specifically one sex attack victim who was attacked,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: put in a trunk, then sex assaulted. She told me
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: what happened. But she did not want us to bring
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: rape charges because she didn't want her husband to know
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: what had happened, which I find that a whole bizarre dynamic.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: But that's true. Her husband never saw those videos. She
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: didn't want him to see them. That is from my
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: longtime friend Dominic Dunn's Power, Privilege, and Justice. May he
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: rest in peace. From KCLU's The One-on-One. To Jan Edwards
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: joining us tonight. She is a sex trafficking expert. She's
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: the president and CEO of Paving the Way Foundation. It
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: fights sex trafficking and exploitation. How this guy got his
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: sentence cut in half from a judge from 124 years
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: to 50 years, and now he's walked free after taking
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: some classes behind bars. It is sickening. Very sickening.
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: Very sickening and very disturbing, Nancy, that this man is
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: going to be allowed to be in neighborhoods around children. Yes,
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: he's a registered sex offender, has to be a registered
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: sex offender for the rest of his life. And prayerfully,
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: the people in that neighborhood will make sure they know
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: where he lives and that they will let the police
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: know if he ever violates that distance between himself and
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: and a school himself, and a park himself, and any
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: other location where there might be children.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Jan Edwards, joining us from Paving the Way Foundation. What
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: is your message tonight to sex assault, sex attack victims?
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, you heard Barbara.
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we work with children, okay? And when
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: we go out and we train and we educate young people,
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: one of the things they actually come up and disclose
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: to us right? And knowing that a child has been
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: harmed online by someone is something that you are never
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: prepared really to be with as an adult and ensuring
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: that they get services, wraparound services for them and their families,
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: because this is a trauma you can.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Never get over.
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: Healing is fully possible for sure. I know several human
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: trafficking survivors and they are out making a difference. Just
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: like what Barbara had said, they become advocates for this.
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: And that's one thing you can do. The other thing
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: is to really just be with the healing process. And
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: if I were a victim, I would be making sure
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: I was advocating for additional laws. Legislation matters. When I
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: was reading about this case, last night, seeing that there
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: was a judge that shifted it from a serious offense
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: versus a violent offense, which has allowed Prop 57 to
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: do what it did. And then, gratefully, two years ago,
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: it came back to a violent offense. So no one's
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: going to get that privilege again. And it's going to
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: keep our kids safe. And for the survivors, I am
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: so sorry that you had to experience this multiple times.
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: The first time when you weren't aware. The second time
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: when you were made aware. And the third time is
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: it pops back up in your memories. And that's the
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: thing that people don't fully understand about trauma is PTSD.
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: Those things come back up in your mind out of
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: the blue from nowhere. It can be a smell. It
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: can be a sound. It can be a song. It
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: can be a visual. And you're re-traumatized again. And the
• 40:19
  Speaker 5: people around you have to be ready for that. They've
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: got to be able to be next to you, with you,
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: holding your hand to remind you you're here now, present
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: versus in that moment.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Barbara Kelly Hicks, I want to hear your response to
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: what Jan was saying. Because this Prop 57 makes a
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: violent sex attack nonviolent if the victim is passed out.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: the rate of an unconscious person is not deemed a
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: violent crime. Can you believe this is happening?
• 40:57
  Speaker 8: No.
• 40:58
  Speaker 10: And that's when I'm grateful for meeting Tanya because the
• 41:01
  Speaker 10: two of us found strength with each other. And we
• 41:05
  Speaker 10: flew to Sacramento and met with Maurice, Senator Avarado-Gill. to
• 41:11
  Speaker 10: help pass SB 268 to make it a violent crime,
• 41:15
  Speaker 10: which it should have been from the beginning.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: But what this says about women and about sex attack victims,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: that if you're slipped GHB or some other drug, then
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: it's no longer a violent crime to be stripped, raped
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: on video? Not a... I mean... The fact that the
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: assembly would do that is stunning.
• 41:46
  Speaker 10: And I've had to fight my whole life to even speak,
• 41:50
  Speaker 10: finally be able to be cleared as a survivor.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: What about this discussion has triggered your tears?
• 41:59
  Speaker 10: When the doctor said the three different steps of a survivor...
• 42:08
  Speaker 10: and the PTSD and it.
• 42:13
  Speaker 9: Brought back a lot of memories.
• 42:14
  Speaker 18: And my anger, my yelling, just trying to survive.
• 42:31
  Speaker 9: All my surgeries. picking up our life and moving just
• 42:37
  Speaker 9: so I could feel safe.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Not only did these sex attacks happen, they were videoed.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: He stored them like scrapbooks of Christmas and Easter. He
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: then goes on the run.
• 42:59
  Speaker 9: I think he had help.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: I think he had some family help, and I don't
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: think it was necessarily a surprise to his family.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: That he was gone.
• 43:07
  Speaker 8: And I think his attorney was a good actor.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I had no idea he was going to skip.
• 43:14
  Speaker 7: It took me by total surprise.
• 43:17
  Speaker 14: Andrew Luster was convicted of 86 counts of rape and poisoning.
• 43:21
  Speaker 9: Not 25, 35, not 52, not 79, 86 counts of rape.
• 43:32
  Speaker 14: Andrew Luster was given 124 years in prison and bolted,
• 43:35
  Speaker 14: took off, while his victims were in court waiting for
• 43:39
  Speaker 14: him to be convicted. I met some of the victims.
• 43:43
  Speaker 14: You can imagine how they felt.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: That's, you all know, the dog bounty hunter. That's from
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Discovery's Guilty Rich and the Hudson Union Society and Love
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Him or Hate Him. Dog Chapman, the bounty hunter, did
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: what seemingly no one else could do. He tracked down
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Luster in Mexico.
• 44:02
  Speaker 19: I said, I know where he's at. So we went
• 44:04
  Speaker 19: to Mexico for like three weeks, nothing. And then Howard
• 44:09
  Speaker 19: pulled out and left. A cameraman, Boris Krutnag and Jeff,
• 44:14
  Speaker 19: left there. And then all of a sudden, Leland saw
• 44:18
  Speaker 19: him first. And he was about two hours away from us.
• 44:22
  Speaker 19: So I told Tim, you know, go, go. And Tim
• 44:24
  Speaker 19: was like 100 miles an hour. And all of a sudden,
• 44:28
  Speaker 19: it was Andrew Lester. So Tim snuck up behind him.
• 44:32
  Speaker 19: And then I pushed him, and down he went. We
• 44:35
  Speaker 19: cuffed him. And he's a big guy, and he's a
• 44:38
  Speaker 19: karate guy, right? So he got in the car, and
• 44:42
  Speaker 19: I think I hit him in the mouth, but I started, boom,
• 44:45
  Speaker 19: elbowing him pretty hard, right?
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: He's like, dog, what are you doing?
• 44:48
  Speaker 19: I said, 87 counts of rape. The FBI knew I
• 44:53
  Speaker 19: was doing it, and they were going to land a
• 44:55
  Speaker 19: plane on this road and pick him up. And so
• 44:59
  Speaker 19: all of a sudden, I looked up and there's a
• 45:02
  Speaker 19: helicopter and these two Jeeps with. 50 calibers. And they're like,
• 45:08
  Speaker 19: you know, out of the car in Spanish. And then
• 45:10
  Speaker 19: one guy in English, get out of the car right now.
• 45:13
  Speaker 19: So Lester's like, yeah, they kidnapped me.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Lester said they kidnapped me? That is Dog Speaking on
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Legally Goff podcast. Daryl Cohen, seriously? How many bond forfeitor
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: calendars have you and I gone through? I've never heard
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: a defendant who goes on the run say, I was kidnapped. Really?
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: It's so lame.
• 45:34
  Speaker 15: Nancy, it's not only lame, it's absurd. What else is
• 45:38
  Speaker 15: he going to say? I'm a rapist and I was hiding.
• 45:41
  Speaker 15: So he comes up with the story of the moment.
• 45:44
  Speaker 15: And that story of the moment was appropriate in his
• 45:48
  Speaker 15: demented mind. I was kidnapped. Help me. Help me. Didn't work,
• 45:54
  Speaker 15: did it? Didn't work at all. And it shouldn't have.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Kidnapped and taken to Mexico and having fun in the sun.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: You're kidnapped. Just another lie from Andrew Luster, now walking free.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: You know, Rachel Bowman joining us. She is a senior U.S.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: news reporter with Daily Mail. There's nothing under the current
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: laws to stop what is happening. He's free. I doubt
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: the people in his neighborhood even know who he is.
• 46:24
  Speaker 12: Yes, so he was released and is believed to be
• 46:29
  Speaker 12: living in Glendora. The mayor has released a statement saying
• 46:32
  Speaker 12: that he's outraged by this and he's criticized the laws
• 46:35
  Speaker 12: that allow his release.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: If you need help or know someone that needs help,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: please dial the National Sex Assault Hotline, 800-656-4673.
• 46:45
  Speaker 15: Repeat, 800-456-4673.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Tonight, we remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Aubrey Phillips,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Alameda County Sheriff's, California, served five years and died in
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: a line of duty, leaving behind husband Josh and sons
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Chase Daxton and Riley. American hero, Deputy Sheriff Aubrey Phillips.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests, especially Barbara Kelly Hicks joining
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: us tonight. but to you for being with us. Thank you.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.