Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Why You NEED to Lift Weights Over 50 (It Won't Make You Bulky)

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Why You NEED to Lift Weights Over 50 (It Won't Make You Bulky) · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:00
  Philip Pape: If you are over 50 and you're wondering whether it's too late to start lifting or whether walking and yoga are enough, you're gonna want to hear this one.
• 0:08
  Philip Pape: On today's bonus episode, I'm bringing you a replay of my conversation with Lynn Hardy on her show, The Aging Games Podcast.
• 0:16
  Philip Pape: She asked me a lot of the same questions I hear every day.
• 0:19
  Philip Pape: Things like, why should I lift instead of doing yoga or Pilates?
• 0:23
  Philip Pape: How much protein do I really need?
• 0:24
  Philip Pape: What about carbs?
• 0:26
  Philip Pape: Am I going to get bulky?
• 0:27
  Philip Pape: And can I actually build muscle at this age?
• 0:30
  Philip Pape: We also discussed sitting and why it's an independent risk factor for your health, exercise snacks, sprinting, CrossFit, and why I stopped doing it.
• 0:40
  Philip Pape: And a simple three-day-a-week lifting framework that works for beginners and advanced lifters alike.
• 0:46
  Philip Pape: I think you're going to get a lot out of this one.
• 0:48
  Philip Pape: So please enjoy the conversation.
• 0:50
  Lynn Hardy: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Tag Podcast.
• 0:53
  Lynn Hardy: I have a very special guest for you guys today, and we're going to be talking about one of my favorite topics lifting weights, getting jacked over 50, and why muscle is so important as we're getting older.
• 1:05
  Lynn Hardy: So, Philip, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:07
  Lynn Hardy: Please tell us a little bit about yourself for the audience.
• 1:10
  Philip Pape: Sure, Lynn, thanks so much for having me.
• 1:12
  Philip Pape: My name is Philip Pape.
• 1:13
  Philip Pape: I'm the founder and host of Wits and Weights.
• 1:15
  Philip Pape: It all started with a podcast because I personally had two decades of my life, my 20s and 30s, where I struggled with fitness and nutrition, had no clue what I was doing.
• 1:25
  Philip Pape: I was an engineer behind a desk, very sedentary.
• 1:29
  Philip Pape: And as I got older, as I had kids, I realized something had to change.
• 1:33
  Philip Pape: So in my 30s, I started CrossFit, thinking that was a solution, right?
• 1:37
  Philip Pape: We all did that.
• 1:38
  Philip Pape: We all did that.
• 1:40
  Philip Pape: Because that was around the right time, around 2010.
• 1:42
  Philip Pape: And but it was during those years, for about eight, 10 years, where I did a lot of experimentation.
• 1:47
  Philip Pape: I learned how to use a barbell, I learned about conditioning, but I didn't really learn all the right things like how to progress and how to build muscle, how to control my diet in the right way and make it sustainable.
• 1:58
  Philip Pape: So around when I was about 40, I was 39, turning 40, right before the pandemic, I finally did a lot of listening to podcasts, watching videos, reading books, came across the Muscle and Strength Pyramids by Eric Helms and also Starting Strength.
• 2:14
  Philip Pape: And some of the big nutrition guys in the space, like Alan Aragon and Dr.
• 2:18
  Philip Pape: Bill Campbell, and all these names.
• 2:20
  Philip Pape: I'm sure your audience knows a lot of these, and really just started to flood my brain with this so-called evidence-based fitness and nutrition, and started to apply that myself.
• 2:31
  Philip Pape: And I spent the year of 2020 building a home gym because that's what I had to do as a gym's work.
• 2:36
  Philip Pape: Yeah, we all did that in 2013.
• 2:38
  Philip Pape: Exactly.
• 2:40
  Philip Pape: And I, you know, I started squatting, deadlifting, pressing with barbells, just very simple, strength-based movements, building over time, eating a lot of food, drinking a lot of whole milk because I didn't know what I was doing exactly.
• 2:53
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah.
• 2:53
  Philip Pape: And just learning, learning, learning.
• 2:55
  Philip Pape: And through that year and the following year, I kind of started to figure out what worked with a lot of the information in the industry coming into my ears, but sorting through it and trying to cut through that noise.
• 3:05
  Philip Pape: And had my first successful, I'll say bulk and cut, let's just say, where I built some muscle for the first time in my life in a meaningful way, cut some fat, felt felt better about my body for the first time in my entire life because I was always self-conscious about my body.
• 3:20
  Philip Pape: And then decided I wanted to share it with the world.
• 3:22
  Philip Pape: So I started my podcast late 2021.
• 3:25
  Philip Pape: Fast forward a few months, one of my one of my guests, who was also a coworker at the time, wanted me to coach her.
• 3:32
  Philip Pape: She was a power lifter.
• 3:33
  Philip Pape: I said, What are you talking about, coach, nutrition coaching?
• 3:36
  Philip Pape: She's like, Look it up.
• 3:37
  Philip Pape: So I looked it up.
• 3:39
  Philip Pape: I when I commit myself to something, I go all in and I learn and I do it.
• 3:44
  Philip Pape: I became a coach.
• 3:45
  Philip Pape: I started working with people.
• 3:46
  Philip Pape: And really, that's now what three, four years later that I've been helping folks with their nutrition and their building muscle.
• 3:54
  Lynn Hardy: Well done.
• 3:54
  Lynn Hardy: So what was your biggest issue?
• 3:56
  Lynn Hardy: You said you were self-conscious.
• 3:58
  Lynn Hardy: Was it were you overweight or under muscled?
• 4:00
  Lynn Hardy: What was the problem?
• 4:02
  Philip Pape: Everybody knows this term, dad bod.
• 4:04
  Philip Pape: Dad bod, right?
• 4:05
  Philip Pape: So kind of like never a little overweight or a little underweight with no muscle, depended on my diet.
• 4:11
  Philip Pape: So if I was really gung-ho on my keto or my low carb diet for a while, which I did, then I would, you know, lose a bunch of weight, but lose a bunch of muscle.
• 4:19
  Philip Pape: I didn't have muscle, so then I'd feel like skinny fat.
• 4:21
  Philip Pape: And then the other extreme was just, you know, overweight, didn't want to take my shirt off, pale white guy with, you know, on the beach with his shirt on, uh, kind of deal.
• 4:29
  Philip Pape: So yeah, but you know, we it's some degree of the same struggles that your listeners can all relate to in some way of just I don't know what to do.
• 4:37
  Philip Pape: I'm a hard worker, I have a decent career, you know, I'm a family guy, but I'm really self-conscious, don't know what to do with my physical fitness.
• 4:46
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah, I think I think this happens a lot.
• 4:47
  Lynn Hardy: And my my audience is ladies over 50, and we're all struggling.
• 4:52
  Lynn Hardy: You know, the hormones are changing, and everything that worked for us before, as far as weight loss or getting fit, just doesn't work anymore.
• 5:00
  Lynn Hardy: And a lot of women are believing that, okay, well, we just need to work harder, you know, we need to run further, we need to do more cardio, burn more calories, eat less calories.
• 5:10
  Lynn Hardy: What do you say to that?
• 5:12
  Philip Pape: I say I challenge the idea that it actually ever worked.
• 5:16
  Philip Pape: And because I use the same messaging, right?
• 5:17
  Philip Pape: And I'm like, what worked for you in your 20s?
• 5:19
  Philip Pape: I think what happens is, you know, your hormones are at their peak, you know, your ovarian function for a woman is at its peak in your you know, teens and 20s, right?
• 5:28
  Philip Pape: Because that's your re pre reproductive years according to evolution.
• 5:32
  Philip Pape: And for men, that's testosterone.
• 5:34
  Philip Pape: You have a bunch of muscle mass that that you've grown through your teenage years, through puberty, and you have all this function going on.
• 5:41
  Philip Pape: So you just don't know what you don't know.
• 5:42
  Philip Pape: And then once you get to your 30s and 40s, as the hormones decline and then the muscle mass declines, and then life gets more stressful, right?
• 5:51
  Philip Pape: And you start doing moving less without even realizing it, then it just starts to accumulate that the lifestyle you've led would inevitably lead to this point.
• 6:01
  Philip Pape: So that's kind of what I say to it.
• 6:03
  Philip Pape: And I also say that no matter what age you are, you can change it to the day you die, to the till your 90s, you can change that trajectory and be healthier and more fit and functional.
• 6:13
  Lynn Hardy: Isn't that cool that you can actually build muscle at any age?
• 6:16
  Lynn Hardy: You can start at any age.
• 6:17
  Lynn Hardy: Obviously, if you have a background or working out, it's it's easier to build.
• 6:20
  Lynn Hardy: But the the fact that it's never too late like really gives people a lot of hope.
• 6:25
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and and women in particular, because your audience is is is mostly women.
• 6:29
  Lynn Hardy: Yes, mostly women.
• 6:29
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah.
• 6:30
  Philip Pape: There's like a fragility narrative uh in the space right now, right?
• 6:33
  Philip Pape: Where like, you know, you're broken and you can't do this, and it what it's fear mongering, right?
• 6:38
  Philip Pape: In my opinion.
• 6:39
  Philip Pape: Where let me if I just dispel one myth, for example, women can build muscle at the same rate as men.
• 6:45
  Philip Pape: That might be a surprise to you right now if you're listening, because you have you start with less muscle mass.
• 6:50
  Philip Pape: I'm sorry to say.
• 6:51
  Philip Pape: That's just the the luck of the jaw.
• 6:52
  Philip Pape: Women have more bodies.
• 6:53
  Lynn Hardy: More fat, you know, we're blessed with more fat.
• 6:56
  Philip Pape: You know, and but and but you know, it doesn't matter how much testosterone you have, whatever, you can build muscle at the same rate as men.
• 7:03
  Philip Pape: That's one myth.
• 7:04
  Philip Pape: And then the other thing is the hormone decline or menopause.
• 7:07
  Philip Pape: You know, menopause transition is like a three and a half year period, right?
• 7:10
  Philip Pape: And I've talked about this on my show as well.
• 7:11
  Philip Pape: I've learned a lot about it for a guy, right?
• 7:13
  Philip Pape: I've learned a lot about it.
• 7:15
  Philip Pape: And it's while, yes, the the progesterone drops, the estrogen changes, DHEA, like all the reproductive hormones, follicle stimulating hormone, and it happens really quickly.
• 7:25
  Philip Pape: A lot of what we see doesn't really have to do with aging, it just has to do with the lifestyle.
• 7:29
  Philip Pape: And what I like to tell women is if you can get the lifestyle together, right?
• 7:34
  Philip Pape: Which there's there's a way to do that with a minimum effective dose that's time efficient and not like super stressful, you can then see what's left in terms of pharmaceutical support or HRT support or something, something like that you might need.
• 7:48
  Philip Pape: But a lot of women and men find that just improving their lifestyle mitigates a lot of those issues.
• 7:52
  Philip Pape: And then the fragility nerve totally totally goes away.
• 7:55
  Philip Pape: I mean, I I talk to women every day who are in their you know, 40s, 50s, 60s.
• 7:58
  Philip Pape: They're just living a great life.
• 8:00
  Philip Pape: And they might have struggled a lot more if it weren't for the lifestyle changes.
• 8:03
  Philip Pape: So why muscle?
• 8:04
  Philip Pape: Why is muscle so important?
• 8:06
  Philip Pape: This is a big one.
• 8:07
  Philip Pape: Muscle is like an endocrine organ, right?
• 8:10
  Philip Pape: It is a it's part of your hormonal system, and we don't think of it that way.
• 8:14
  Philip Pape: It's effectively other than your skin, it's kind of your biggest organ on your body, if you think of it.
• 8:19
  Philip Pape: It's the one thing that you have the most control over in terms of change, in terms of your tissue, right?
• 8:25
  Philip Pape: Because yes, you can change your body fat, that's energy storage, but your muscle mass is part of your physical tissue, and it's associated with every marker of longevity, of health, of metabolism, of inflammation, of anything you can possibly say that leads to the decline in aging, uh, such that if you can improve it, you're going to turn back the clock.
• 8:49
  Philip Pape: You know, you're gonna be 20 years younger than your peers by the time you're in your 60s and 70s, you know, in terms of your physical age.
• 8:55
  Philip Pape: And you're gonna avoid a lot of those those things that we worry about, like fragility, you know, falls, bone dead, bone fractures, type 2 diabetes, all the obesity-related diseases as well, because building muscle supports losing fat and it allows you to carry more fat with less health issues.
• 9:14
  Philip Pape: So I just told you like the benefits of muscle, right?
• 9:17
  Philip Pape: But it is one of the most strong predictors of how well we age because of all of those.
• 9:21
  Philip Pape: Metabolic health and glucose and insulin sensitivity is another big one.
• 9:26
  Philip Pape: I I love to talk about Lynn.
• 9:28
  Philip Pape: People are worried about carbs.
• 9:29
  Philip Pape: Well, if you have more muscle and you're training for muscle, both of those are huge sinks for glucose and glucogen, glycogen, so you could eat more carbs and your food will be better partitioned in your body so that you can thrive even on higher calories.
• 9:45
  Philip Pape: So it's just it's just cascades to one benefit after another.
• 9:49
  Lynn Hardy: I love it.
• 9:50
  Lynn Hardy: What's your diet like, Philip?
• 9:52
  Philip Pape: My diet is pretty flexible.
• 9:54
  Lynn Hardy: So in terms of So you don't follow like a keto or carnivore or any kind of strict diet?
• 9:59
  Philip Pape: I do not.
• 9:59
  Philip Pape: No, no, and I don't, and I don't advocate for that either.
• 10:02
  Philip Pape: I'm not against somebody following a protocol or diet if the end result is it works for them and it makes them feel good.
• 10:09
  Philip Pape: That's the goal, right?
• 10:10
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 10:11
  Philip Pape: As opposed to doing it because you think it's the right thing to do.
• 10:13
  Philip Pape: My personal diet is anchored in protein.
• 10:16
  Philip Pape: So plenty of and we can get into numbers, but sufficient protein for building muscle, holding on to muscle.
• 10:21
  Philip Pape: And then I have plenty of fats for hormone support, energy, and then the rest is carbs.
• 10:26
  Philip Pape: So when you do it that way, you end up having probably like 15, 20% of your diet is protein, maybe 30% of your calories is fat, and the rest is carbs.
• 10:35
  Lynn Hardy: So, like, I mean, I can get into details, but yeah, get into details because let's talk about protein because you know, we're always on about how important protein is as we're getting older.
• 10:43
  Lynn Hardy: And I always tell the ladies, you know, make sure you prioritize protein, make sure you're getting enough protein because it's it's very difficult.
• 10:49
  Lynn Hardy: If you're looking at like, you know, two grams per body weight, but pound body weight, right?
• 10:56
  Lynn Hardy: That's that's quite a bit.
• 10:57
  Lynn Hardy: Like for me, I need to be eating like 120, 140 grams of protein a day.
• 11:03
  Lynn Hardy: And it's hard.
• 11:04
  Lynn Hardy: Like now, for the first time, I started tracking my micros and my macros and everything, which I've never done before.
• 11:10
  Lynn Hardy: And I'm shocked at how hard it is to get the right amount of protein in for my body.
• 11:15
  Lynn Hardy: So, what could we do with that?
• 11:16
  Lynn Hardy: Or do you even recommend that to to you know, to consume higher amounts of protein?
• 11:22
  Philip Pape: No, I get the question all the time.
• 11:23
  Philip Pape: Just yesterday, my group, a new a new client asks, she's like, My target seems to be around 0.7 grams per pound, but I've heard you need one gram per pound, and that's so much more.
• 11:34
  Philip Pape: How do I do it?
• 11:35
  Philip Pape: And first I said, Okay, hold on, take a step back.
• 11:38
  Philip Pape: 0.7 grams per pound is what the evidence currently suggests.
• 11:41
  Lynn Hardy: Oh, sorry, I was talking about kilos.
• 11:43
  Lynn Hardy: So what I was doing.
• 11:43
  Lynn Hardy: I got it.
• 11:44
  Lynn Hardy: Yes, exactly.
• 11:45
  Philip Pape: I figured you were you were talking about 1.6 to 2.2 grams of per kilogram or exactly 0.8 or 0.7 to 1 per pound per pound of exactly.
• 11:55
  Philip Pape: Should I speak in metric or no?
• 11:57
  Philip Pape: Either one is fine.
• 11:59
  Lynn Hardy: I'm in Europe, so I'm like all mixed up Canadian living in Europe.
• 12:02
  Lynn Hardy: So it's like half my brain's in kilos, the other half's in pounds.
• 12:06
  Philip Pape: So let's just say the lower end of that.
• 12:07
  Philip Pape: So the 0.7 grams per pound or the 1.6 grams per kilogram is more than enough for 90, 90 five percent of what you're looking for in terms of your needs.
• 12:18
  Philip Pape: Now, I always tell people like if you can bump it up a little more, you might see other benefits for satiety, you know, fullness.
• 12:24
  Philip Pape: You might have an advantage with your muscle building and preservation, especially in fat loss.
• 12:28
  Philip Pape: So when you're in a calorie deficit, having more protein can help hold on to that muscle more easily.
• 12:33
  Philip Pape: But you have to balance that with sustainability and variety in like what you like and what you, you know, how many calories you have.
• 12:39
  Philip Pape: Because if you're a lower metabolism person, just naturally, it's gonna not leave you as much room for the fats and carbs.
• 12:45
  Philip Pape: So you might have to make some trade-offs.
• 12:47
  Philip Pape: If you're a guy that eats 3,000 calories, it's like, why are you not getting the full gram per pound?
• 12:51
  Philip Pape: Because you also are gonna have lots of carbs and fats.
• 12:54
  Philip Pape: So yeah, I'm a big proponent of that.
• 12:56
  Philip Pape: As far as getting it, there are so many sources of protein.
• 12:59
  Philip Pape: If you're an omnivore, of course, vegetarians and vegans, it's all it's harder.
• 13:03
  Lynn Hardy: Yes.
• 13:04
  Philip Pape: You've got any animal-based source, lean meats.
• 13:06
  Philip Pape: Seafood is one of my favorites.
• 13:08
  Philip Pape: So low mercury mercury tuna like Skipjack, any any white fish, right?
• 13:13
  Philip Pape: Salmon's great, but it also has higher fat.
• 13:15
  Philip Pape: So you just have to watch for that.
• 13:16
  Philip Pape: And shrimp.
• 13:17
  Philip Pape: I love peel and eat shrimp as a snack because it's like pure protein.
• 13:20
  Philip Pape: So lean meats, also dairy, any form of dairy.
• 13:24
  Philip Pape: Now, people think eggs, but eggs do have a lot of fat.
• 13:26
  Philip Pape: So you want to like add egg whites with eggs if you need more protein.
• 13:30
  Philip Pape: And of course, there's cottage cheese, there's Greek yogurt, there's fair life milk, and then you have all the plant-based sources like oats and all the soy-based products, like tempeh and tofu and soy, or I already said soy.
• 13:42
  Philip Pape: And yeah, I think I think I basically listed most of them.
• 13:46
  Lynn Hardy: Okay.
• 13:46
  Lynn Hardy: So you're advocating for high protein but lower fat, if I hear correctly.
• 13:52
  Philip Pape: Okay, so we anchor the protein on 0.7 to 1 gram per pound or 0.1.6 to 2.2 gram per kilogram.
• 13:58
  Philip Pape: Then I recommend 30% of your calories from fat, plus or minus 10%.
• 14:02
  Philip Pape: So it's a big range.
• 14:04
  Lynn Hardy: Yes.
• 14:04
  Philip Pape: And I 30% again is like a kind of a natural spot.
• 14:08
  Philip Pape: A lot of people will fall.
• 14:09
  Philip Pape: A lot of women I work with will tend to just eat leaner, so it'll fall more like 25 or 20% of their calories.
• 14:14
  Philip Pape: And then a lot of guys I know they eat more meat that have more saturated fat or something, and they might be up in 35%.
• 14:19
  Philip Pape: Or if you come from the keto world, you just are used to eating more fat in your diet, and that's fine.
• 14:25
  Philip Pape: And then carbs are everything that's left.
• 14:27
  Philip Pape: So if you're eating, let's say, I don't know, 2,500 calories, that might look like 150 or 200 grams of carbs, you know, depending on how much protein you need.
• 14:37
  Philip Pape: If you're above that, it's going to get into two, threes, and four hundreds, which tends to be more men, but a bigger, stronger woman might be up there as well.
• 14:45
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah, it's really interesting that about fat because, you know, I did a, I was in the keto world for many years, keto carnivore.
• 14:53
  Lynn Hardy: But you know, with keto, you're really focusing on fat.
• 14:55
  Lynn Hardy: You're like 70% fat and moderate to low protein.
• 14:59
  Lynn Hardy: But now things are changing.
• 15:00
  Lynn Hardy: So even in the keto world, now they're recommending lower fat, especially for women over 50, as your hormones are changing.
• 15:06
  Lynn Hardy: They're saying that your body's not able to tolerate as much fat anymore.
• 15:10
  Lynn Hardy: And in order to lose weight, you really need to reduce your fat and up your protein, which kind of goes against the whole keto values.
• 15:17
  Lynn Hardy: Do you have you noticed that with your clients?
• 15:20
  Philip Pape: I mean, my clients come to come in right away, knowing my philosophy that it's more flexible and like not specific to a diet.
• 15:27
  Philip Pape: And so they're they're probably already open to the idea, that idea.
• 15:30
  Philip Pape: But here's the way I frame it instead of like what you shouldn't have, right?
• 15:34
  Philip Pape: It's what you should have.
• 15:35
  Philip Pape: And you alluded to this by saying protein.
• 15:37
  Philip Pape: I think of okay, what are the pillars that we need for our health, for our longevity, for our strength, for all of our goals?
• 15:42
  Philip Pape: Protein is great for all of them, right?
• 15:44
  Philip Pape: Because you're gonna build tissue, you're gonna repair yourself, even when you're injured, when you're sick, like protein is great.
• 15:50
  Philip Pape: And then fat, you don't need too much fat.
• 15:52
  Philip Pape: You need a certain amount of fat to support hormone health, but not more than that.
• 15:56
  Philip Pape: You know, fat is needed for your cells, your mitochondria, and so on.
• 16:00
  Philip Pape: But I like to say, okay, where does carbs come in here?
• 16:02
  Philip Pape: Because carbs is what's been fear-mongered.
• 16:04
  Philip Pape: And I think in the keto world, that's like, or in the carnivore world, plants, fiber, carbs are like a big no-no.
• 16:11
  Philip Pape: But I would say, look, we know that diets high in fiber are more associated with better mortality outcomes, better health outcomes.
• 16:18
  Philip Pape: We don't have long-term studies on diets low in fiber.
• 16:21
  Philip Pape: So I it's more of a like, maybe you're taking a risk, maybe you just don't know if you don't have fiber in your diet.
• 16:26
  Philip Pape: I prefer to look at it as fiber helps you stay full, it helps with your gut, it helps with your bowel movements, all that stuff.
• 16:33
  Philip Pape: And it gives you a lot of, and it's associated with plants and the carbs that keep you full, right?
• 16:38
  Philip Pape: The high fiber carbs.
• 16:39
  Philip Pape: The rest of carbs, I lean into the muscle side of the equation and I say, look, having more carbs is going to help with building muscle and strength and having more energy.
• 16:49
  Philip Pape: And if that's important to you, you're going to see a difference 95% of the time.
• 16:54
  Philip Pape: And what I mean by that, Lynn, is inevitably I have a client that comes in, they do fasted training.
• 16:59
  Philip Pape: And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with fasted training.
• 17:01
  Philip Pape: In fact, recent research showing women doing fasted training, they can have just as successful outcomes as not.
• 17:07
  Philip Pape: And I kind of used to be on the fence on this and say, you should eat before you train.
• 17:11
  Philip Pape: However, it seems anecdotally that most people who eat before they train will perform better when they train, and therefore they'll get a little bit faster progress over time and they'll just feel better.
• 17:21
  Philip Pape: You know, have that banana, have that whey protein before you eat.
• 17:25
  Philip Pape: And that's where carbs are powerful because carbs are glucose, they're sugar, right?
• 17:29
  Philip Pape: They get converted into glycogen in your muscle, in your liver.
• 17:32
  Philip Pape: And that's an immediate store of energy in the form of, you know, of glycogen along with your ATP when you work out and when you train.
• 17:39
  Philip Pape: When you're lifting heavy weights, you need that spike of energy when you go into that heavy, you know, eccentric on the way down, and then you need to explode back up.
• 17:48
  Philip Pape: Clients who don't do that report feeling drained, feeling wiped, not getting all the reps, feeling like they couldn't go up in weight this week, something stalled.
• 17:58
  Philip Pape: Those are the kind of things I'm talking about with carbs.
• 18:01
  Philip Pape: Not to mention, carbs spare protein.
• 18:04
  Philip Pape: So when you have more carbs, you don't necessarily have to have as much protein as well.
• 18:08
  Philip Pape: And it helps you have a more balanced diet.
• 18:10
  Lynn Hardy: Very interesting.
• 18:11
  Lynn Hardy: What do you think about progressive overload when it comes to training?
• 18:15
  Philip Pape: It's it's everything.
• 18:16
  Philip Pape: Progressive overload is everything.
• 18:18
  Philip Pape: So if we think about why muscles grow, they grow because of mechanical tension.
• 18:24
  Philip Pape: That that's it.
• 18:25
  Philip Pape: They grow because you are training really close to failure.
• 18:28
  Philip Pape: Your body gets stimulated through a hormonal process, right?
• 18:32
  Philip Pape: Growth hormone, testosterone, everything.
• 18:34
  Philip Pape: And your body says, you know what?
• 18:35
  Philip Pape: You just push me so hard that I'm not quite capable of that.
• 18:39
  Philip Pape: I'm gonna, while you're sleeping, we are going to increase the size of your sarcometers that's your muscle cells.
• 18:45
  Philip Pape: We're just gonna, you know, read, we're gonna adapt to this, right?
• 18:48
  Philip Pape: We're gonna adapt while you sleep.
• 18:50
  Philip Pape: Next time you go to the gym, you're gonna be able to add a few pounds of the bar, right?
• 18:53
  Philip Pape: It's up to you now to do that.
• 18:55
  Philip Pape: So that's progressive overload.
• 18:57
  Philip Pape: So like the muscle tension happens when you push close to the limit, but then every time you go to the gym, you have to keep pushing close to the limit.
• 19:05
  Philip Pape: So another way to put it is you're always training within a few reps shy of failure.
• 19:09
  Philip Pape: And because you're getting stronger, that sh those few reps shy of failure is gonna be a heavier weight or more reps or more sets every time you go to the gym for that lift.
• 19:18
  Lynn Hardy: What do you say to women who are worried about getting too big, too bulky?
• 19:22
  Lynn Hardy: This is very common.
• 19:23
  Lynn Hardy: I know a lot of women shy away from lifting weights completely because they think they're gonna be huge.
• 19:30
  Philip Pape: If you want the lean toned athletic look, if you want a six-pack, if you want to find biceps and a back and to look like a badass woman who is strong but lean, you have to build muscle.
• 19:42
  Philip Pape: And I'll tell you what, I this is the joke.
• 19:45
  Philip Pape: I always say, I would love to get bulky myself, and I have a hard time doing it.
• 19:49
  Philip Pape: It takes years of years of lifting and eating and growing and being in a surplus, let alone performance-enhancing drugs.
• 19:56
  Philip Pape: When you look in your Instagram feed, like when you look, trust me, you know this, Lynn.
• 20:00
  Philip Pape: If you're not careful, you look at a couple good physiques on Instagram and you get flooded with all the women with the eight packs and on the beach, and it's all doctored up, it's all photos, it's all, and a lot of times it's drugs too.
• 20:14
  Philip Pape: You know, it's these elite bodybuilder types.
• 20:16
  Philip Pape: Women, you're not gonna get bulky at all.
• 20:18
  Philip Pape: Building visible muscle takes years.
• 20:21
  Philip Pape: I most clients who I work with, like in short order, they're like, I want more muscle now.
• 20:25
  Philip Pape: Now that I've gotten into this, I see how cool it is to have the little Christmas tree on my back and the nice cut in my shoulders and the little bit of you know, line in my biceps.
• 20:36
  Philip Pape: You know, my wife jokes about it because I got her doing a program.
• 20:38
  Philip Pape: I don't coach her, but I said, here she wanted one.
• 20:41
  Philip Pape: I said, here you go.
• 20:42
  Philip Pape: And she's like, Look, look, look at my arms now, just from a little bit of stress on your muscles.
• 20:47
  Philip Pape: So yeah, you're not gonna get bulky.
• 20:48
  Lynn Hardy: And we all want beautiful arms.
• 20:50
  Lynn Hardy: I mean, that's that's that's my struggle.
• 20:52
  Lynn Hardy: That's what I always struggle with.
• 20:53
  Lynn Hardy: And I've been, you know, training, lifting weights, working out, bouldering, I do everything.
• 20:58
  Lynn Hardy: And I cannot get the definition in my arms that I would want.
• 21:01
  Lynn Hardy: And I I would kill for that.
• 21:03
  Philip Pape: Yeah, so uh it's funny.
• 21:05
  Philip Pape: When we talk about physique, which which there's nothing wrong with having a vanity goal because at the end of the day, I always tell people physique is an expression of a lot of things.
• 21:13
  Philip Pape: It's an expression of strength and function and health and how you look, and it all ties together.
• 21:18
  Philip Pape: But if you really want to build the visibility, you're gonna have to specialize for a bit in that muscle group, right?
• 21:25
  Philip Pape: Like maybe train it two, two or four times a week, depending, you know, two or four exercises a week.
• 21:30
  Philip Pape: You're gonna have to lose enough body fat to show it, and you're gonna have to repeat that cycle over time, over several years.
• 21:36
  Philip Pape: So, like the problem for a lot of women is they never want to spend the time to truly build muscle.
• 21:41
  Philip Pape: They want to recomp, which we can do, but I'll I'll give an example.
• 21:46
  Philip Pape: I just had a client finished working with her.
• 21:48
  Philip Pape: She wanted to gain, she wanted to lose 10 pounds of fat.
• 21:50
  Philip Pape: At the end of the day, she lost six pounds of fat and gained three pounds of muscle.
• 21:55
  Philip Pape: Now, do you think she was disappointed?
• 21:56
  Philip Pape: No, she was thrilled because she felt better, she looked better.
• 21:59
  Philip Pape: She had smaller waist size.
• 22:01
  Philip Pape: So she actually ended up only three pounds lighter on the scale, but with a way better physique than we started, right?
• 22:09
  Philip Pape: And it takes time.
• 22:11
  Philip Pape: And also you have to sometimes lose body fat.
• 22:13
  Philip Pape: That that was like five or six months, and that wasn't all in a fat loss phase.
• 22:17
  Philip Pape: You know, like I always I always think you should spend a month or two dialing in your behaviors and habits first before you do a fat loss phase.
• 22:24
  Philip Pape: So the fat loss was like 10 or 12 weeks.
• 22:26
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 22:27
  Lynn Hardy: Wow.
• 22:27
  Lynn Hardy: That's that's very impressive.
• 22:28
  Lynn Hardy: I'm sure she looks amazing.
• 22:30
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:31
  Philip Pape: But I'll tell you, we this one client, I can tell you she went through a lot of mental and emotional struggles that we work through.
• 22:37
  Philip Pape: And this is a this is common of like impatience, right?
• 22:41
  Philip Pape: Because you you think, okay, uh my goal is to lose 10 pounds on the scale.
• 22:44
  Philip Pape: And really, you're that's not your goal, is it?
• 22:46
  Philip Pape: Your goal is to feel like yourself, like the person on the inside, right?
• 22:50
  Philip Pape: Is to be the confident person you are and to like be able to play with your kids or grandkids or just go do the sport, you know, show up confidently at work, you know, all those things are really what you want.
• 23:02
  Philip Pape: And there's a lot of emotional stuff to work through sometimes that have nothing to do with the nuts and bolts of physique development.
• 23:08
  Philip Pape: You know what I mean?
• 23:09
  Lynn Hardy: No, it's true.
• 23:10
  Lynn Hardy: And it's also it is true what you're saying, like the self-confidence that it gives you.
• 23:14
  Lynn Hardy: Like I do bouldering as well.
• 23:15
  Lynn Hardy: So when I come out of the bouldering club and I climb down that wall and I'm like, I walk out and, you know, my muscles, everything's all pumped up, and I'm like, I'm so badass, you know, I'm walking through the bark, like anyone gonna mess with me?
• 23:27
  Lynn Hardy: Like, it's an amazing feeling.
• 23:29
  Lynn Hardy: Like, I love the fact that I'm 55 and I'm strong, you know, that I feel strong, I can carry anything, I can pick it, you know.
• 23:35
  Lynn Hardy: I carry my husband around and he's like over 200 pounds, or my son, and and I love having that strength that makes me feel really, really powerful compared to a lot of women who, you know, my age or even younger, they start getting frail and weak and their bones are deteriorating.
• 23:51
  Lynn Hardy: And it's it's just a really sad thing to see.
• 23:53
  Lynn Hardy: And it's so easy to easy to avoid.
• 23:56
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, I I I totally agree.
• 23:57
  Philip Pape: I hear the stories every day.
• 23:58
  Philip Pape: Either, you know, 65-year-old woman who was having trouble getting off the chair and now she deadlifts and can like, you know, get knees feel good.
• 24:06
  Philip Pape: I mean, I hear this all the time with joints, you know, joint pain, because that affects a lot of uh people, especially women, and bone density concern for osteopenia, osteoporosis.
• 24:16
  Philip Pape: And a lot of that is mitigated when you start lifting weights because you're loading your skeleton and your muscles to do what they're designed to do, and you're therefore starting to bring everything up to support your spine.
• 24:28
  Philip Pape: You're bringing everything in line with your hormones.
• 24:30
  Philip Pape: It's just a beautiful thing.
• 24:31
  Philip Pape: So to me, I I can't say enough about lifting weights.
• 24:33
  Philip Pape: I know that's why you brought me on, but like to anybody listening, if you're not doing it, it's okay.
• 24:38
  Philip Pape: There's some you can start and we can talk about like practical steps how to start.
• 24:42
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah, where that was my next question.
• 24:44
  Lynn Hardy: Like, where would where would someone start?
• 24:46
  Lynn Hardy: If you know, if I've never worked out before, I'm quite intimidated, I'm scared to go to the gym.
• 24:51
  Lynn Hardy: I don't want people laughing at me, maybe I'm overweight, I need I, you know, I need to lose some weight, and you're shy, you're intimidated, where do you start?
• 25:00
  Philip Pape: I really it really depends on the person, but for for a lot of women that I've talked to, either if they're okay with going to the gym, you know, it's it's having a very basic functional program that that you're confident in that you can do like two or three days a week, right?
• 25:16
  Philip Pape: If you if you don't want to go to the gym, like you said, gym intimidation, there's stuff you can do at home with body weight, with dumbbells.
• 25:22
  Philip Pape: If you're listening and you have the space and investment, I can I can give you a home gym guide that's like gives you options for how to set up a power rack and a bar and plate.
• 25:32
  Philip Pape: I know it sounds crazy.
• 25:33
  Philip Pape: You're like, oh my God, he's talking barbells, but let me tell you, barbells are a game changer for a lot of people I work with because they're very safe, simple tool that can progress for the rest of your life.
• 25:43
  Philip Pape: And it's like the only thing you would have to buy, and you don't have to worry about all the machines and everything.
• 25:47
  Philip Pape: So I always say start where you're at and your level of enthusiasm because some women I've talked to, they're like, they have an avulsion to any thought of working out because of something in their past where it was like it's miserable or it didn't work or they got made fun of or whatever, right?
• 26:05
  Philip Pape: And and and you I kind of be sensitive to that and say, okay, what can we do at home where you practice the movement patterns, the squat, the picking up, the deadlift, the pressing, just practice the movement patterns and take equipment that will make it hard for you.
• 26:20
  Philip Pape: So that could be your body, right?
• 26:22
  Philip Pape: If you've got extra weight, great, that's an advantage because that weight is going to be load on you.
• 26:27
  Philip Pape: Take advantage, reframe it.
• 26:29
  Philip Pape: That's an advantage.
• 26:29
  Philip Pape: Um, it's also a dieting advantage we can talk about.
• 26:32
  Philip Pape: But yeah, start where you're at with like dumbbells or bands or body weight, do the basic movement patterns.
• 26:37
  Philip Pape: And three days a week doing squats, deadlifts, and some sort of press is huge.
• 26:43
  Philip Pape: As long as you get go up in weight or reps each session, each session, not each week, each session when you're beginning.
• 26:51
  Lynn Hardy: But if you're if you're doing body weight exercises, for example, how can you would you just increase the duration or what what would you do?
• 26:58
  Philip Pape: Yeah, so that was gonna be my next thing is you're gonna hit a wall.
• 27:00
  Philip Pape: You're gonna get too strong for that, right?
• 27:02
  Philip Pape: And and and because I don't know where you're starting from.
• 27:04
  Philip Pape: Like when I was helping my mom out a couple years ago, she was having knee pain and couldn't get off the couch.
• 27:08
  Philip Pape: We started on a chair.
• 27:10
  Philip Pape: And then after a week, she's like, the chair's too easy.
• 27:12
  Philip Pape: What do I do?
• 27:13
  Philip Pape: I said, let's go with a low box.
• 27:14
  Philip Pape: And then after that, she's like, What do I do next?
• 27:16
  Philip Pape: I say, okay, now we put the bar on your back.
• 27:17
  Philip Pape: It might just be a PVC pipe, or it might be a barbell or women's barbell or whatever.
• 27:22
  Philip Pape: And so you're gonna have to do that.
• 27:23
  Philip Pape: So I have a lot of clients or people I've spoken to who, for whatever reason, they can't have access to a barbell or a gym, but they have dumbbells.
• 27:31
  Philip Pape: I strongly invest, I strongly suggest the adjustable dumbbells.
• 27:35
  Philip Pape: You know, they're not the cheapest in the world, but like they're compact, and you're probably gonna invest five or six hundred bucks to get the really big ones that'll let you grow for several years, especially as a woman.
• 27:47
  Philip Pape: I'm not belittling women, but women tend to be less strong than men, so you have a little more leeway on the dumbbells.
• 27:53
  Philip Pape: But I will say most people will top out pretty soon if you're doing it right, and you're like, what do I do next?
• 27:57
  Philip Pape: Well, then barbell machines and cables, you know, if you can get to a gym or barbell at home is where I would go.
• 28:05
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 28:06
  Lynn Hardy: Would you recommend hiring a trainer?
• 28:07
  Lynn Hardy: Would that be important in the beginning to learn to see the exercises properly?
• 28:12
  Philip Pape: Yeah, 100%.
• 28:12
  Philip Pape: And you're gonna find this funny, but a lot of people I work with, I don't recommend they hire me because I I'm a nutrition coach, slash lifestyle coach, and I do a lot of the like my prerequisite is that you're already lifting when you come to me and I want to help you refine your technique.
• 28:26
  Philip Pape: I would actually work with somebody in person who's local.
• 28:29
  Philip Pape: You know, you can get an online coach and a really good one could be decent with the form checks and stuff, but it's really hard to see your mechanics and fix them in real time without being in person.
• 28:38
  Philip Pape: So if you could get word of mouth recommendations for a good coach who knows what he's talking about, I know it's hard.
• 28:45
  Philip Pape: They can at least help you with some safety and confidence with the form early on.
• 28:49
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 28:50
  Lynn Hardy: So that would be like initially, right?
• 28:52
  Philip Pape: Yeah, initially.
• 28:53
  Philip Pape: But then I'll tell you what, even if you're not gonna be perfect, like to this day, I'm always gonna be personally working on my form, right?
• 29:00
  Philip Pape: So once you're kind of got a basic thing going, online form checks can be very powerful, right?
• 29:05
  Philip Pape: So, like I did it with clients or in our group where you could just post a video and I'm gonna go in and either do a screen share or in text, say, hey, you know, I don't, I see you've got more room for depth there.
• 29:16
  Philip Pape: I want you to use this cue for your deadlift.
• 29:18
  Philip Pape: You know, I want you to look straight out, like those little cues that help people fix their form.
• 29:22
  Philip Pape: And it's just a constant process of improvement.
• 29:25
  Lynn Hardy: I love that.
• 29:25
  Lynn Hardy: Well, have you ever heard of exercise snacks before?
• 29:28
  Lynn Hardy: I'm a big fan of exercise snacks.
• 29:30
  Lynn Hardy: What do you think of that?
• 29:31
  Lynn Hardy: For okay, obviously, you're not it's not really the progressive overload and getting jacked, but it's I think also a great way for people to stay fit, especially when they're very busy.
• 29:41
  Lynn Hardy: You know, I always tell people while you're brushing your teeth, do 10 squats, while you're waiting for the water to boil, do counter push-ups.
• 29:48
  Lynn Hardy: Do you think those small exercise snacks, do you think they make a difference?
• 29:51
  Lynn Hardy: Or in the big picture, it's not enough.
• 29:54
  Philip Pape: They do.
• 29:54
  Philip Pape: I would never discourage them.
• 29:56
  Philip Pape: They they they're really helpful.
• 29:57
  Philip Pape: We have to look at our goal here, right?
• 29:59
  Philip Pape: If if the goal is, like you said, to get strong and build muscle and get jacked, they're probably not gonna move the needle a lot because pretty quickly you're gonna be too strong for them to challenge your muscles.
• 30:08
  Philip Pape: So you're not really doing them for that.
• 30:10
  Philip Pape: I see exercise snacks.
• 30:12
  Philip Pape: Let me let me let me clarify two categories.
• 30:15
  Philip Pape: There's there's splitting up your workout routine into maybe a couple times a day.
• 30:20
  Philip Pape: That's not really exercise snacks.
• 30:21
  Philip Pape: That's more of you know, working around your schedule.
• 30:24
  Philip Pape: Exercise snacks would be every half hour, every hour, every two hours, whatever, you run up the stairs for a minute, right?
• 30:30
  Philip Pape: Or you go and walk around for two minutes, or you do the air squats.
• 30:34
  Philip Pape: There's a really cool study from 2021.
• 30:37
  Philip Pape: I actually reviewed it on my podcast where they compared air squats every 30 minutes to walking every 30 minutes to nothing and just sitting down all day.
• 30:47
  Philip Pape: And these were all people who were sitting, so desk jobs for eight hours.
• 30:51
  Philip Pape: And they found that the walking had the biggest impact on muscle protein synthesis and blood flow and insulin sensitivity, like all the health markers, and it was massive.
• 30:59
  Philip Pape: It was like people who sat all day, their muscle protein synthesis dropped by half.
• 31:04
  Philip Pape: People who walked once every 30 minutes, it went up by 47% from baseline.
• 31:10
  Lynn Hardy: Wow.
• 31:11
  Lynn Hardy: And the people who squatted, it was a little bit less than the walking group.
• 31:15
  Lynn Hardy: Uh-huh.
• 31:15
  Lynn Hardy: But it's a good alternative if you can't walk to at least and do a few squats.
• 31:21
  Philip Pape: Absolutely.
• 31:21
  Philip Pape: Although I know a lot of people would, most people would be like, Thank God I'll have to squat.
• 31:25
  Philip Pape: Let me just walk.
• 31:25
  Philip Pape: I can just walk.
• 31:26
  Philip Pape: Yeah, it's much easier for sure.
• 31:28
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 31:29
  Philip Pape: But so I've been telling people, and I have one, I have an app on my phone.
• 31:32
  Philip Pape: I think it's called Stand Up.
• 31:33
  Philip Pape: It's like a free app that you can set a reminder, and every 30 minutes it reminds me to get up and move around.
• 31:39
  Philip Pape: You know, even now we're on this podcast.
• 31:41
  Philip Pape: I'm standing, right?
• 31:42
  Philip Pape: I'm standing.
• 31:43
  Philip Pape: That's another thing I like.
• 31:44
  Philip Pape: But we're gonna be not stuck.
• 31:46
  Philip Pape: This is great for an hour, but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna have my break.
• 31:49
  Philip Pape: So after that, I'll go for a walk.
• 31:51
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah.
• 31:51
  Philip Pape: Um, and and and it's huge from that perspective.
• 31:54
  Philip Pape: So there's a lot of studies on walking in general, step count, and on movement snacks that just show game-changing levels of improvement for health, mobility, joint fluid, you know, synovial fluid in your joints, vascular health with the you know how some people buy those little ellipticals for their feet, yeah.
• 32:15
  Lynn Hardy: You know, the yeah, well, the desk, right?
• 32:18
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and even that shows those kinds of results too of like just the fact that you're moving your body in some way, you know, on a basis.
• 32:24
  Philip Pape: So, yeah, yeah.
• 32:25
  Lynn Hardy: We just spend we just spend way too much time just sitting around, yes, lying around, lounging around, scrolling on the phone.
• 32:32
  Lynn Hardy: I mean, humans are meant to be moving.
• 32:35
  Lynn Hardy: We are not plants, right?
• 32:37
  Philip Pape: Yeah, it's an independent risk factor.
• 32:38
  Philip Pape: Like you have people who I've seen three different scenarios.
• 32:42
  Philip Pape: I've seen people who lift a lot and then they don't do anything else.
• 32:44
  Philip Pape: I see people who lift and then they walk and they don't do anything else.
• 32:48
  Philip Pape: And then people who lift, walk and move.
• 32:50
  Philip Pape: And and and on each of those levels is kind of a step change in the biomarkers for health and longevity.
• 32:57
  Philip Pape: So, like somebody who lifts but doesn't do anything else, they're gonna have great benefits from the lifting, but they're actually letting a lot of it go to waste, if you will, with their nutrient partitioning and everything else because they're sitting around.
• 33:10
  Philip Pape: Like it's almost inflammatory to sit around.
• 33:13
  Philip Pape: I mean that in the true blood sense of inflammation, you know, see reactive protein, interleukin 6, like the actual measurable blood markers, not the hocus pocus inflammation the influencers talk about, right?
• 33:24
  Philip Pape: Because seed oils aren't inflammatory.
• 33:25
  Philip Pape: We can get into that whole thing, anyway.
• 33:27
  Philip Pape: Sorry.
• 33:29
  Philip Pape: But then the middle category is if you lift and you walk, but you don't, but you still sit around all day, we still see a lot of issues with health markers.
• 33:39
  Philip Pape: And so you've got to do all of them lift, walk, and move.
• 33:42
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah, I'm all for that.
• 33:43
  Lynn Hardy: I mean, walking is definitely like one of the best exercises, and and and pretty much anyone can do it anytime.
• 33:49
  Lynn Hardy: I'm you know, if I don't do my 20,000 steps a day, I feel like uh, you know, what am I doing with my life?
• 33:54
  Lynn Hardy: Like that's like smiling, that's great.
• 33:56
  Philip Pape: That's impressive.
• 33:57
  Lynn Hardy: You should see my parents, my parents are 75 and they're like 22, even for the other day, they did 40,000.
• 34:03
  Philip Pape: And they retired.
• 34:04
  Lynn Hardy: They retired, yes.
• 34:05
  Lynn Hardy: Okay, I've done I've walked the Camino de Santiago with them twice.
• 34:08
  Lynn Hardy: So, you know, like a walking family.
• 34:11
  Lynn Hardy: And they're 75, they have no joint issues, no heart disease, like no pain, no back pain, nothing.
• 34:18
  Lynn Hardy: Like people don't realize that, you know, the people that are sitting home with knee pain and you know, hip replacements and all that.
• 34:25
  Lynn Hardy: It's it's normally not from overuse, it's not from exercise, it's from lack of use.
• 34:30
  Philip Pape: 100%.
• 34:30
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, there's a lot of counterintuitive things that I see in older generations.
• 34:35
  Philip Pape: You know, I think of my in-laws, and they just recently discovered the benefit of walking on their treadmill at home.
• 34:41
  Philip Pape: And oh my gosh, my knees feeling better.
• 34:43
  Philip Pape: Oh my gosh, my shoulders fit and they're in their 70s, you finally figured this out, you know, but they're too stubborn to like listen to others, you know, give them advice, right?
• 34:51
  Philip Pape: You you understand that.
• 34:52
  Philip Pape: But yeah, the the the younger generations, I think, were and through podcasting, we're trying to get that message out of just being active, moving around.
• 35:02
  Philip Pape: Imagine the implications it will have when we're all older on our children not having to take care of us and not burdening the healthcare system.
• 35:09
  Philip Pape: And that all leads to a better economy and better everything else.
• 35:12
  Philip Pape: Anyway, yeah, I'm very passionate about it.
• 35:15
  Lynn Hardy: No, it's absolutely true.
• 35:16
  Lynn Hardy: And you you want to be able to play with your grandchildren or even your great grandchildren and get on the ground and you know, play with them on the floor and get up and all that.
• 35:24
  Lynn Hardy: I mean, it's so important.
• 35:26
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and the other thing I hear, and you probably do as well, is the back issues, right?
• 35:31
  Philip Pape: When you get older and the knees and the elk shoulders.
• 35:33
  Philip Pape: And you you said like being mobile is part of it, and also lifting weights has helped a lot of people in those areas.
• 35:39
  Philip Pape: I work with a lot of engineers, because that's where I come from, who, you know, I finally convinced them just do some deadlifts.
• 35:45
  Philip Pape: That's gonna solve your back issues.
• 35:46
  Philip Pape: They're like, How can that be?
• 35:47
  Philip Pape: Isn't it gonna make it worse?
• 35:48
  Philip Pape: You know, fear-mongering, like, and they start deadlifting like a week later.
• 35:52
  Philip Pape: Oh my gosh, my back pain is gone, you know.
• 35:54
  Philip Pape: And I'm not saying it's a miracle or anything, it's just common sense that when you start to use your body, whether it is walking, whether it is lifting, you're using what's there.
• 36:03
  Philip Pape: It's kind of like you're you're a robot that was sitting gaining sit gaining dust in the corner, somebody turned you on and you started moving and oiling up your joints again.
• 36:11
  Philip Pape: Right.
• 36:12
  Philip Pape: Well, as they say, motion is the lotion.
• 36:15
  Philip Pape: Motion is the lotion, yeah.
• 36:16
  Philip Pape: Right and and what and and if you think of lifting weights, you are you're you're prof you're putting a lot of gravitational load on mechanical joints and connections in your body, right?
• 36:28
  Philip Pape: Like all your muscles insert into bone, you have lens, the tendons and ligaments, which are connective tissue, you have cartilage, you have the fluid that connects it all, and you're basically just making all of that work mechanically, like you know, crank up again and start to build and get stronger and bigger and the engine's bigger.
• 36:45
  Philip Pape: So all your whole body is now just feeling lighter and more athletic.
• 36:49
  Philip Pape: You know what I mean?
• 36:50
  Philip Pape: Like it's just it's a great visual.
• 36:52
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:53
  Lynn Hardy: I totally agree.
• 36:54
  Lynn Hardy: So, uh, how many times a week would you recommend lifting weights for someone who's just starting out?
• 37:00
  Philip Pape: I think a beginner three days a week is solid.
• 37:03
  Philip Pape: Three days for like a half hour to 45 minutes, usually.
• 37:06
  Philip Pape: That's all.
• 37:06
  Lynn Hardy: Doesn't have to be longer.
• 37:08
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 37:08
  Philip Pape: I, you know, if you if you look up, if your listeners look up starting strength, for example, it's a basic barbell program, you'll see it has three movements and it's three days a week.
• 37:16
  Philip Pape: You know, Monday, Wednesday, Friday through.
• 37:18
  Philip Pape: And when you first start, even if you take long rest periods, which you should be, this is not circuit training, this is not endurance training, you should be.
• 37:25
  Philip Pape: It should take maybe 45 minutes.
• 37:27
  Philip Pape: Now, as you get stronger and the weights get heavier, it might take a little longer.
• 37:31
  Philip Pape: Also, as you become more advanced of a lifter, you're gonna add more things in.
• 37:35
  Philip Pape: Maybe you go to four days a week, right?
• 37:37
  Philip Pape: It's all about volume and frequency based on how you adapt.
• 37:42
  Philip Pape: So, like if you don't do it enough, if you don't squat enough frequently enough, your body's just gonna detrain back to its current strength level and it'll never progress.
• 37:51
  Philip Pape: And then you're just wasting time when you go to the gym.
• 37:53
  Philip Pape: You're like maintaining what you have.
• 37:54
  Philip Pape: So that's why you have to have enough volume and frequency.
• 37:57
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 37:59
  Lynn Hardy: And the as far as the exercises, would you recommend just focusing like on the basic exercises like pushing, pulling, squats, that kind of thing, you know, deadlifts, bench presses, or should people get into the more complex exercises?
• 38:16
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I would start with the natural human movement patterns done with the full range of motion.
• 38:23
  Philip Pape: So what you just said, and people put them in different categories.
• 38:26
  Philip Pape: They'll say hinge, push, pull, they'll see squat, deadlift, whatever.
• 38:30
  Philip Pape: From an exercise perspective, it looks like a form of squat where you're going all the way below parallel, right?
• 38:37
  Philip Pape: With some load.
• 38:38
  Philip Pape: So that could be a goblet squat with your dumbbell in your front of you.
• 38:41
  Philip Pape: It could be a front squat, it could be a back squat.
• 38:43
  Philip Pape: You know, I'm I'm partial to the ones that let you move the most weight, like a back squat, but it doesn't have to be.
• 38:49
  Philip Pape: So you've got a squat, then you've got a hinge, a hinge deadlift.
• 38:53
  Philip Pape: We call it a hinge, but really it's a pull, right?
• 38:55
  Philip Pape: It's a pull from the ground.
• 38:57
  Philip Pape: So that's a deadlift where you pick something up, you pick a bar off the ground, maybe dumbbells off the ground, maybe bands.
• 39:02
  Philip Pape: Then you've got pressing, and I like both horizontal and uh vertical pressing.
• 39:07
  Philip Pape: So horizontal would be a bench press and vertical would be an overhead press of some kind.
• 39:12
  Philip Pape: But again, you could do different angles.
• 39:13
  Philip Pape: You can, you know, if you have shoulder issues, there's modifications.
• 39:16
  Philip Pape: But if you Monday, Wednesday, Friday do squat every day, deadlift every day, and then alternate between horizontal and vertical press, that is enough to make a lot of progress for the first six months to a year and get super strong and muscular, you know, for from where you started.
• 39:32
  Lynn Hardy: I love that because it's simple.
• 39:33
  Lynn Hardy: You know, because people think you need like this complex workout program and you've got all these exercises that you have no idea how to do.
• 39:40
  Lynn Hardy: If you really master three, four exercises, basic exercises, and do them regularly, you're gonna get the results.
• 39:47
  Philip Pape: It's because they're efficient, they're efficient with time and they're efficient with your body, which is great, especially if you don't have a lot of time.
• 39:54
  Philip Pape: They're called compound lifts, right?
• 39:56
  Philip Pape: Because they compound meaning multiple, they use multiple, and uh, you know all this, but for the listener, multiple joints.
• 40:02
  Philip Pape: You think of a squat, you're bending your hips at your knees and your ankles.
• 40:06
  Philip Pape: They're all bending, right?
• 40:08
  Philip Pape: Furthermore, when you do a squat, your whole body and your posterior chain is engaged because your back has to stay tight, your shoulders have to stay tight, your scapula, you know, squeezed, your glutes are tight, your quads, your everything.
• 40:20
  Philip Pape: And then when you go all the way down to depth, you're using all of your hip musculature, you know, from your abductors from the outside to your adductors and groin muscles on the inside, quads on the front, glutes and hands on the back, you're hitting your ankles and calves, you're putting isometric load into your back, right?
• 40:39
  Philip Pape: So you're just getting so much out of one lift.
• 40:41
  Philip Pape: Same with the deadlift.
• 40:42
  Philip Pape: Now the pressing movements are a little more upper body focused, but we need that as well.
• 40:47
  Philip Pape: We need that pushing strength.
• 40:49
  Philip Pape: We need our shoulders to be engaged, right?
• 40:52
  Philip Pape: We need to use our chest, all of that.
• 40:53
  Philip Pape: And then it all uses your back as well.
• 40:55
  Lynn Hardy: What do you think about kettlebells?
• 40:56
  Lynn Hardy: They're one of my favorite tools.
• 40:59
  Lynn Hardy: Are you a fan or not?
• 41:01
  Philip Pape: They're versatile.
• 41:02
  Philip Pape: They're very versatile.
• 41:03
  Philip Pape: I will say that you can do a it's kind of like a landmine, like which I used to do in CrossFit, and I still have one at home and you know, land my barbell and a landmine.
• 41:10
  Philip Pape: Yeah, they're very versatile.
• 41:11
  Philip Pape: I I normally tell people like they're more of a supplemental or like an alternative if maybe you can't have access to other things only because of practicality and load, because you would have to have like a whole bunch of kettlebells.
• 41:23
  Philip Pape: Or I know they have some adjustable kettlebells nowadays.
• 41:26
  Philip Pape: So they do.
• 41:27
  Philip Pape: I haven't seen those.
• 41:28
  Philip Pape: I think so with a little dial and it like changes the radius, so it depends on how big it pulls the bell out.
• 41:35
  Lynn Hardy: That's very cool.
• 41:35
  Lynn Hardy: I'll have to check that out.
• 41:36
  Lynn Hardy: Because I love I love doing outdoor exercises rather than being inside the house, sure so that so that I get the whole benefit of being outdoors and the sun and grounding barefoot and all that stuff.
• 41:47
  Lynn Hardy: So, you know, with a kettlebell, it's so versatile and it's so easy to do.
• 41:51
  Philip Pape: And I can I mean you could you could swing them, you can squat with them, you can press them overhead, you can do all sorts of it.
• 41:57
  Philip Pape: I I get it, I totally get it.
• 41:59
  Philip Pape: It's I I always just come down to like sustainability, practicality, equipment, blah, blah, blah.
• 42:04
  Philip Pape: Dan John, do you know Dan John?
• 42:06
  Philip Pape: He's like a kettlebell expert.
• 42:07
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:07
  Philip Pape: So I always throw his name out there.
• 42:09
  Philip Pape: Amazing guy who like you look at him, he's big, you know, come comes from the Olympic background, and he can do like snatches and cleans and stuff with a barbell as if he's like a 20-year-old.
• 42:20
  Philip Pape: It's insane.
• 42:20
  Philip Pape: He's so athletic, but he's this huge guy and he's big into kettlebells, you know.
• 42:24
  Lynn Hardy: Yeah, it's very cool.
• 42:25
  Lynn Hardy: So we we talked about CrossFit, and looks like you're not a big fan of CrossFit anymore.
• 42:32
  Lynn Hardy: We've all been there, we've all done that.
• 42:34
  Lynn Hardy: I think a lot of people have, but it's still quite popular.
• 42:36
  Lynn Hardy: What is wrong with CrossFit?
• 42:38
  Philip Pape: That's a leading question.
• 42:40
  Philip Pape: But I like it.
• 42:41
  Philip Pape: But I like it.
• 42:42
  Philip Pape: What's wrong with CrossFit is it doesn't do what people think it does for them, and they're doing it for the wrong reason.
• 42:48
  Philip Pape: So, like if your goal is to get a massive amount of high stress conditioning, and maybe you want to improve the skills of the CrossFit sports because you want to compete in CrossFit, that might be it's one area that it has some benefit.
• 43:02
  Philip Pape: Even the CrossFit athletes, you look at all the big athletes from framing, froning, whatever, to all the ones today, their primary form of training is strength training.
• 43:12
  Philip Pape: And then the CrossFit is more the specialization for the sport so that they can compete.
• 43:17
  Philip Pape: So it's like a sport.
• 43:18
  Philip Pape: I did CrossFit for eight years thinking it would improve my physique or make me stronger.
• 43:22
  Philip Pape: It may be a little stronger, of course, because I went from sedentary to well, puking and on the first day because that's how insane it is, to touching, you know, learning how to use a barbell, but honestly, the form was terrible.
• 43:35
  Philip Pape: And they don't most boxes, that's what they call the gyms, right, have decent coaches, but the the certification requirements are pretty low.
• 43:42
  Philip Pape: You know, you have to go to a thousand dollar class and you get certified.
• 43:45
  Philip Pape: And honestly, this is the case with most gyms anywhere when it comes to trainers.
• 43:49
  Philip Pape: It's very hard to find really good ones.
• 43:51
  Philip Pape: And when it comes to form, CrossFit throws form out the window because a lot of the wads are time based and they're rep based and they're really fast.
• 43:59
  Philip Pape: So I I know for a fact I've probably created some root causes of later injuries from CrossFits of deadlifting, you know, 135 pounds as many times as I could in whatever minutes, or trying to deadlift 21 deadlifts as fast as possible.
• 44:14
  Philip Pape: And you're just like slamming that stuff up.
• 44:16
  Philip Pape: And I have personal experience with the whole array of CrossFit.
• 44:20
  Philip Pape: I got decent at some of the stuff as well and very good conditioning.
• 44:24
  Philip Pape: Let me tell you, like my heart resting heart rate was down like low 40s.
• 44:28
  Philip Pape: Now it's upper 40s, but it was low 40s during CrossFit.
• 44:31
  Philip Pape: Having said all that, it's it's super high stressful.
• 44:34
  Philip Pape: It can definitely injure you.
• 44:36
  Philip Pape: It doesn't provide the benefit of progressive strength and muscle development over time.
• 44:42
  Philip Pape: And you don't need it in terms of the conditioning.
• 44:45
  Philip Pape: Like if you want to be well conditioned, walking, a little bit of high recovery sprinting, and some extra cardio sprinkled in at like medium intensity is all you need, unless you're an endurance athlete and that's your goal.
• 44:57
  Philip Pape: So that's my thoughts on it.
• 44:59
  Lynn Hardy: No, sorry, I agree.
• 45:01
  Lynn Hardy: And you know, for women over 50, it's it's we have a huge issue with cortisol.
• 45:05
  Lynn Hardy: And we don't want to be doing stuff that it's gonna spike the cortisol because it's gonna mess up the hormones, it's gonna mess up our sleep and everything.
• 45:12
  Lynn Hardy: So that's why I found CrossFit not the best type of exercise for women over 50.
• 45:18
  Lynn Hardy: What do you think about like yoga, Pilates, those kinds of things?
• 45:22
  Lynn Hardy: Can they replace weight training or are they a good addition to weight training?
• 45:28
  Philip Pape: So it depends.
• 45:28
  Philip Pape: Like both of those have a big spectrum of styles, right?
• 45:32
  Philip Pape: Like yoga has, you know, more strength style versus relaxation, balance.
• 45:37
  Philip Pape: You've got hot yoga, you've got new yogas that I'm not even familiar with.
• 45:41
  Philip Pape: People are talking about Pilates is a little bit more, you're using weights, right?
• 45:45
  Philip Pape: So I would say unless you enjoy it and are using it as a form of cardio or supplementary work, it's not really a great alternative to strength training for that purpose.
• 45:56
  Philip Pape: But I've had clients who do that, or they'll do orange theory, or they'll do F-45, or they like their what is that, Tybo or what's the the dancing?
• 46:04
  Lynn Hardy: Well, the kick kickboxing.
• 46:05
  Lynn Hardy: Um, kickboxing.
• 46:07
  Philip Pape: You know, Zumba, all that stuff.
• 46:09
  Philip Pape: And I'm like, look, let's let's create a pyramid.
• 46:11
  Philip Pape: And what's at the bottom?
• 46:13
  Philip Pape: At the bottom is lifting because what you care about, what you came to me to talk about, what your listeners care about is their body composition.
• 46:19
  Philip Pape: They want to be strong and functional, they want to keep the stress low.
• 46:22
  Philip Pape: Maybe they want to lose some fat and have a healthy lifestyle.
• 46:25
  Philip Pape: Okay, let's start with lifting weights at the bottom, and then maybe walking, you know, and then above that is maybe some enjoyment.
• 46:32
  Philip Pape: And this is where the sports piece comes in.
• 46:34
  Lynn Hardy: Uh-huh.
• 46:34
  Philip Pape: Pickleball, Zumba, yoga.
• 46:37
  Philip Pape: Actually, I would kind of put as like a long walking.
• 46:40
  Philip Pape: I think it, I think most yoga is fine as much as you want to do because it's kind of relaxing.
• 46:45
  Lynn Hardy: Stretching, stretching, relaxing.
• 46:47
  Philip Pape: You know, as long as it's not a time stressor, you know, like, oh, I have to do yoga and I have to lift and I can't fit it all in.
• 46:53
  Philip Pape: But the more the stuff that uses weights and resistance or something, you got to watch out because it's going to interfere with your recovery from your lifting sessions and it's going to create more stress.
• 47:03
  Philip Pape: And that could also reduce your metabolism a bit and hold it back because of the stress, stress response.
• 47:08
  Philip Pape: So it's kind of like how do you balance that pyramid?
• 47:10
  Philip Pape: You know, and then sprinkled at the top is like sport, performance, sprinting, like the little bonus stuff at the top that you want to boost your VO2 max a little or something like that, if you have the time and inclination.
• 47:22
  Philip Pape: That's my thought on it.
• 47:23
  Philip Pape: It's really about goals and balance.
• 47:25
  Lynn Hardy: Do you think sprinting is important?
• 47:27
  Philip Pape: There's a form of sprinting I think is really beneficial that I talk about ever since I met Brad Kearns.
• 47:32
  Philip Pape: He wrote, he co-wrote the book of Mark Sisson called Born to Walk.
• 47:36
  Philip Pape: Great book.
• 47:36
  Philip Pape: So just everybody get it.
• 47:38
  Philip Pape: And I stole his protocol and now I use it all the time with clients.
• 47:41
  Philip Pape: Um, so I'm giving him credit.
• 47:43
  Philip Pape: Giving him credit.
• 47:44
  Philip Pape: In fact, I'm doing a workshop in a couple weeks called Adaptive Cardio.
• 47:49
  Philip Pape: And I have like a cardio pyramid and sprinting's in the top section.
• 47:53
  Philip Pape: Because again, I don't want you to do the sprinting until like you've dialed in walking and you don't have enough steps and you're lifting weights.
• 47:59
  Philip Pape: But the sprinting protocol sounds it goes like this it's four to eight sets, 10 to 20 seconds all out, six times recovery.
• 48:07
  Philip Pape: So if you sprint for 10 seconds, you rest for at least a minute.
• 48:10
  Philip Pape: So it's not like hit, it's not like Tabata, it's very high ratio of rest to rec of rest to work.
• 48:17
  Philip Pape: And it's no more than eight sets and no more than 20 seconds per set, and that's it.
• 48:21
  Philip Pape: You you never go past that, you just get faster and more powerful over time.
• 48:24
  Philip Pape: That's all.
• 48:25
  Philip Pape: And then you can do that once or twice a week.
• 48:27
  Philip Pape: If you do it twice a week, make one of those not flat ground.
• 48:31
  Philip Pape: So make it on a machine, so it's less stressful.
• 48:34
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 48:34
  Philip Pape: Right.
• 48:34
  Philip Pape: And if you do it flat ground, it's better to do it on a like a softer surface, like a track.
• 48:38
  Philip Pape: But I mean, I I have a road, I'll just go on there every now, and it's fine if you you know sprint lightly on your toes, which you can't help but do.
• 48:46
  Philip Pape: Yeah, the other thing I like about sprinting, it's anabolic, it's it's supportive of your hormones and recovery for lifting, it doesn't detract from it and it is not running.
• 48:55
  Philip Pape: So let me tell you, people, if you don't want to run, you don't you hate running or whatever, it's not running.
• 49:01
  Philip Pape: Go sprint as fast as you can for 10 seconds and report back.
• 49:05
  Philip Pape: Send me a note on Instagram.
• 49:06
  Philip Pape: Tell me if that's the same as running.
• 49:08
  Philip Pape: Because I I I guarantee it's probably not.
• 49:11
  Philip Pape: It's like being a superhero, it's not running.
• 49:14
  Lynn Hardy: No, I agree.
• 49:15
  Lynn Hardy: I love sprinting.
• 49:15
  Lynn Hardy: I do with my dogs.
• 49:16
  Lynn Hardy: I have a dog who's 16, and I make sure I sprint with her because it's important for her to run as well.
• 49:22
  Philip Pape: That was my conversation with Lynn Hardy on the Aging Games podcast.
• 49:25
  Philip Pape: If you want to check out her show, it's called The Aging Games.
• 49:28
  Philip Pape: I'll link to it in the show notes.
• 49:30
  Philip Pape: Now, if anything in that conversation hit you hard, resonated with you, especially the part about eating more protein, lifting heavier, building muscle as your best tool for aging well.
• 49:40
  Philip Pape: That is exactly what we're building with Eat More Lift Heavy.
• 49:44
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• 49:55
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• 49:58
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• 50:02
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• 50:06
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• 50:14
  Philip Pape: So if you want that first access, go to witsandweights.comslash eat more and get on the list.
• 50:20
  Philip Pape: You can use the link in the show notes as well.
• 50:22
  Philip Pape: That is witsandweights.comslash eatmore.
• 50:26
  Philip Pape: Thank you for listening, and I'll talk to you next time.